22/01/2017 The Andrew Marr Show


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"From this day forward, it's going to be only America first".


Not a big surprise, perhaps, but where does it leave Britain


after Theresa May made it clear we are leaving the single market?


And, therefore, we need a special deal from the Donald.


Theresa May is off to Washington shortly and the Prime Minister joins


us live later to talk Brexit and Trump.


Who better to come up with some answers than Nick Clegg


for the Liberal Democrats and the Shadow Chancellor


Reviewing the news after an extraordinary


week, one of Donald Trump's cheerleaders in London,


And the Guardian's Anushka Asthana, they'll get on famously I'm sure.


There have been hints that President Trump might cancel


endowments to the Arts in the United States.


One of America's finest singers will be here to talk about that,


and performs a classic from the Great American song book.


But first the news with Roger Johnson.


Theresa May will become the first foreign leader to meet the new US


The announcement was made during Donald Trump's


first day in office, which also saw a series of protests


In the nation's capital, they've rarely seen a rally quite like this.


Not since the Vietnam War have so many people come together


in defence of women's rights and minority rights,


liberties these people believe could be imperilled


The man himself was visiting the headquarters of the CIA whilst


Less concerned about secrets, it appeared, than crowd sizes,


in particular reports of the attendance at his


It looked like a million, a million people.


They showed a field where there was practically


That theme was echoed in an unscheduled news conference


a short while later before confirming that


Britain's Theresa May would be the first foreign leader


The new White House press spokesman railed against reports that Mr Trump


had failed to attract as large a crowd to his inauguration


This was the largest audience to witness


These attempts to lessen the enthusiasm of the inauguration


Size clearly matters greatly to Donald Trump, and regardless


of the inauguration crowds, the crowd at yesterday's protest


was so large that a march on the White House proved impossible


because there were so many people present.


The Ministry of Defence has insisted it has full confidence


in the Trident nuclear defence system, despite reports that a test


According to the Sunday Times, a missile fired from a submarine


in the Atlantic Ocean veered off course and in the direction


Labour is calling for an inquiry into the allegations.


Delays in assessing the needs of patients are causing


a bed-blocking crisis in hospitals, according to the watchdog


Research seen by BBC 5 Live suggests many social care


assessments are failing to happen in the recommended


The Department of Health said it's investing an extra ?900 million


The former president of The Gambia, Yahya Jammeh, has flown into exile,


22 years after taking control of the African state in a coup.


He started a political crisis when he refused to accept


the outcome of the country's election in December.


But he finally agreed to hand over power to the winner, Adama Barrow,


after the leaders of neighbouring countries threatened


The next news on BBC One is at one o'clock.


If Donald Trump is dividing America and Britain he is certainly dividing


the papers. Here we have the Mail on Sunday, very anti-Trump. The


observer not very pro-Trump, the darker side of human nature,


insidious claims of jealousy, envy, greed and hubris, it says. Then


there's the Sunday Telegraph. Trump's new deal for Britain, and by


and large very positive coverage. And the Sunday Times, Trump's


triumph, and the story about misfiring a nuclear missile and the


alleged cover-ups which we were hearing about in the news. An awful


lot to talk about. Piers Morgan, where are we going to start? The man


of the moment, the man of the global attention right now. I was struck by


the Telegraph's front page because whatever any individual in this


country thinks about Donald Trump, his very divisive but he's also an


Anglophile. His mother was born and raised in Scotland until she was 18,


he thinks he is half British and according to the Telegraph he wants


to fully embrace the special relationship, hence Theresa May


being the first person invited to America. So you know him, can you


sort something out for us? On the one hand we are told is the most


protectionist president America has had for a long time and yet we rely


on him now for a free-trade deal after Brexit, how will that work? He


will put America first, he said. All of the Brits moaning about that


phrase, we have just put Britain first so it is not completely


different to what we are doing and it gives us a unique opportunity to


work with the Americans. You have got to play to his ego, he has a


stupendous ego, and according to the Telegraph who wants the full Monty


when he comes to Britain including playing a round of golf at Balmoral


while the Queen watches him play! You have to put aside any personal


distaste for him, I accept the fact is now the most powerful man on


earth, and in opposition leaving the European Union the Americans are our


best and strongest ally again. Let's take advantage of it. And you have a


story about Melania? Yes, lots of celebrities or hate Donald Trump,


made it clear we will not address the first lady, Bob steps Ralph


Lauren and she looked absolutely stunning in the Inauguration Day


dress and the other dresses she's worn. Interestingly his stock price


in his company has gone through the roof so Ralph Lauren may have the


last laugh. There is a little line in the sofa, you are probably


slightly less Trumpy part of the sofa. Piers Morgan, going for the


fashion, and going for the sexiest story. This story on the Daily Mail


suggests could Theresa May when she goes over there actually raise her


feelings about his comments on women. Bush is in a terribly


difficult position because she needs a lot from Donald Trump and at the


same time, as a prominent female leader, she will be expected to


raise these questions. As we've seen, she thinks some of the


comments, particularly about the idea a powerful man can grow a woman


are unacceptable but let's be honest, this will all be about


trying to bolster that special relationship. It will be about


talking about trade but it comes alongside this coverage in the


papers today about some 2 million people marching around the world,


not the Washington elite, not the Westminster elite, just people


across America and the country. Some interesting signs, keep your laws


off my... We won't mention that on television. Piers Morgan has argued


it is anti-democratic, it is the epitome of democracy that people are


able to speak out. Very positive coverage of that but perhaps less


positive coverage by Rod Liddle who really goes for it in the Sunday


Times. I want to declare I am a feminist, I believe completely in


women's rights. I believe in all equality. I don't believe in rebid


feminists, no, and the reason I used that phrase on Twitter was Bob steps


Madonna, and what does she tell the masses to end the hate? She says I


been thinking regularly about bombing the White House, then goes


into a foul-mouthed rant about how disgusting Trump is. Then we had


people making lewd jokes about incest with his daughter. It was a


pretty hateful side yesterday, and the point Rod Liddle is making is


actually, what is it about? If we don't like Donald Trump and we wish


Hillary Clinton had won, sorry, sisters, but Donald Trump won. How


many of these people who marched in America actually voted? Because


Donald Trump got 52% in America of the white female vote, he got 40% of


the total female vote. If everyone who had marched had voted for


Hillary Clinton, he might not be there. So people who lose the


election are not entitled to express their views? That is what democracy


is about. This is a good piece by Helen Lewis who has picked out one


person, -- who talk about people like Piers ever picked out one


person like Madonna, and it is hitting out at this lazy assumption


that somehow Hillary lost because of identity politics. What she argues


is that those who analyse the election show Hillary Clinton spoke


thousands of times about jobs and education, about inequality, and


only a tiny bit about women's rights and racism. She argues that if you


want to talk about identity politics, the wall was identity


politics, being disparaging. About Mexicans of course. We are beginning


to see the first signs of the Trump Administration, and signs of from


Russia's war between the Trump Administration and the mainstream


media, particularly CNN for home use to work. Yes, I personally wouldn't


have voted for Donald Trump, he's not my politics, specifically on


things like climate change and gun control, however he's the president.


The media are involved in this war with a guy that they for months and


months at the start of his campaign fuelled. Make no bones about it,


they put him on prime-time television, they created the


monster, then like Doctor Frankenstein said hang on, he might


win, we better try to kill him. There was a British comedian who


said I dare you, Trump, Ron, and now look what's happened. There is a


headline on the CNN website, White House press secretary attacks media


for accurately reporting inauguration crowds. To be fair,


Donald Trump's spokesman was trying to claim there were more people


there for the inauguration than their workforce Barack Obama, which


is ridiculous, we know there were more therefore Barack Obama. Can


this become a war between the President of the United States and


the press corps? As a journalist I think it is very unhealthy. And he


wants to privatise national public radio. I think he needs to calm down


about the press and the press need to calm down about double Trump. If


the press would afford him a bit of respect, they might get it back. I


don't think we have got the paper here but we can talk a little bit


about the industrial strategy story because that's the other big thing


coming from the Government on this side this week, Theresa May saying


she is putting a lot of money into colleges to train people in schools


like bricklaying, plumbing and so forth. We hear a lot about this for


years but now it's actually happening. I think Downing Street


would argue that this focus on the industrial strategy is meant to be a


continuation of her Brexit beach, so it's about speaking to the Brexit


vote and trying to use this as an opportunity to rebalance the


economy. The focus will be about technical skills, but as you say


it's been talked about a lot and it hasn't happened. It's been talked


about this extent a lot so the proof will be in pudding. Do you think we


are at a moment when our economic policy changes quite radically? On


the one hand we are losing allegedly lots of bankers because of Brexit


and on the other hand is a lot of folks on rebuilding manufacturing


and doing something for the north. All bets are off. We are in


uncharted territory. I voted to remain. I didn't want this, but now


we are where we are, a bit like with Trump, I am very positive, because I


think you have two, being positive is the right attitude, until it all


goes to hell in a handcart. If it does, the ones who voted remain can


say, we told you. Meanwhile, Theresa May has made what appears to be a


clear threat - if I don't get what I want, we will slash tax and take a


different economic route in this country. Dominic Lawson as an


interesting piece in the Sunday Times. He has written, we shouldn't


be threatening EU leaders because we need their votes, ultimately. It is


a good point. Having said that, from a negotiating point of view, we


remember David Cameron trying to negotiate from a position of, I will


stay in, whatever happens, give me a good deal. Anyone who has played


poker knows that is not a smart way to do this. Theresa May beating the


British Chester bit and saying, we can survive without you we have two,


I think it is a good negotiating tactic. -- beating the British chest


is a bit. The other story is the Stoke by-election. There are two big


by-elections for the Labour Party, and they are facing a series of


quite hard tests, particularly since Paul not all, the new Ukip leader


who is writing in the Sunday Telegraph, is standing in Stoke


Central. That's right. He is trying to drive a knife through Labour's


coalition, which has been made more fragile by that Brexit boat. He says


there is a joke doing the rounds that Ukip is the party of Stoke, in


fact, they both are, but Ukip is the party of Stoke and Labour is the


party of Stoke Newington. He is trying to hammer this idea that


Labour represents the liberal, London boys. This will be -- London


voice. This will be an immigration by-election. It will be indicative


of how much impact the referendum had. But remember, the Tories have


done a lot to squeeze Ukip on the issue Brexit. I have seen that the


Tories are planning to go very hard in Stoke. People in the Mirror say


today that Jeremy Corbyn's position could be in peril. He denies being


toast. We have run out of time. Very quickly, my father had a stroke a


few years ago, and we have all talked about what you have been


through, and I think it is remarkable that you have been able


to do this show. You wrote a great piece about the treatment you had in


America, which has really worked. What I would now like to see is the


proper double-blind trial. It could be cheaper if we did it on the NHS


than things that we do at the moment. It is a great piece. On that


moment of consensus, thank you very much indeed.


Absolutely no complaints this week - it's been crystal clear, sunny,


yes a bit cold of course, but fabulously beautiful.


Some of those areas that have had clear skies could see dense fog


patches tomorrow morning. More of that in a moment. Today, the best of


the sunshine is in South East England and East Anglia. There will


be a few wintry flurries in Scotland this afternoon, with plenty of


cloud. Northern Ireland will see sunny spells. A cold day, most of us


3-6dC. A bit milder than it has been in Wales and south-west England.


Tonight, variable cloud, still a few light showers around. A frost but


many of us again. Here comes the fog, especially into England and


Wales. Not everyone will see it, but there could be dense freezing fog


patches around during tomorrow morning's rush hour. Especially for


parts of England and Wales, do check before you head out. A few patches


are possible in Scotland and Northern Ireland. We will keep you


updated. Fog is possible for some on Tuesday morning. It looks like a


cold, settled week for much of England and Wales, but Scotland and


Northern Ireland turning windier and wetter.


No MP I can think of has been quite so outspoken in his urgent hostility


to Theresa May's Brexit plans than the former Deputy Prime


Minister and former leader of the Liberal Democrats,


But it looks like a done deal, so how can the Liberal Democrats


and their own rump of nine MPs really make any difference?


Nick Clegg, the first thing to say is that at least we have clarity. I


suppose it is not surprising that Theresa May says we can't stay


inside the single market, because of the Brexit referendum was happily


about immigration and taking control of freedom of movement, that means


leaving the single market. But at least we have clarity. Yes, but the


wrong kind of clarity. She made a choice, which I disagree with, but


that is the choice she made. I don't agree with your characterisation.


There are plenty of politicians across the EU who are saying there


needs to be changed the freedom of movement, so there is scope for a


Europe-wide approach to this that could satisfy some of the


Government's needs. This is early days, the easy bit where the


Government sets out its stall. There will now be a collision, in my view,


quite a painful one, with reality with negotiating the 27 goverments


and Parliaments. You can't on the one hand the spouse free trade and


then yank yourself out of the world's most successful free trading


area, the single market. There are other free trade deals you can do


with other countries. People are saying, grey, we will have a new


deal with America. No deal with America can replace what we are


going to lose on our own doorstep. If you double the trade with


America, Canada, New Zealand, Australia and India, you still would


not trade as much as you do with our nearest neighbours in the EU. The


reason is, geography still counts. Countries tend to trade most, in


goods, at least, the country is nearest to them. People were told


clearly during the referendum that if we voted to leave the EU, we


would leave the single market, and they said that was a price worth


paying because of the immigration issue. It seems that sometimes the


Lib Dems cannot quite hear that message. My experience is that there


are different reasons why people voted for Brexit. In my constituency


in Sheffield, lots of people said they were voting against Brussels


because they were so fed up with London. One person even told me in


the a few hours before the polls open that he was voting for Brexit


because he wanted to buy a house and wanted to see prices come down. As


you know, there was no single manifesto from the Brexiteers saying


what they wanted. That is the past, and the Government has stated what


it wants to do. One thing I can guarantee is that what will not


happen is that the rest of the EU will say, you can have your cake and


eat it. There will be choices to be made. No one doubts that. My real


question, however, is but might you hate the whole thing, wish it hadn't


happened and would like to reverse it, but how can you have any effect


on this? You have nine MPs. You may do well in council by-elections, but


how can you possibly change anything? Events will drive a lot of


this. Of course, if the Government plans turn out to be agreed


effortlessly by the rest of the EU and something happens which has


never happened before - a highly complex trade agreement is signed,


sealed, done and dusted in 18 months, then of course, we should


have the humility to say that we were wrong. People are saying this


can be done quite quickly. I don't think anyone thinks it can be done


on the ambition that the Prime Minister set up. A fundamental


contradiction is, whether we like it or not, the biggest destination for


our goods and service is that market place with its rules, so we will


still had to abide by those rules. When that becomes clear, the British


public will have some doubts. At that point, what happens? We have a


court case this week which may require the Government to take the


Article 50 triggering issue to the House of Commons. At that point,


presumably, you and the other parties would come together and vote


against it. I wouldn't hold your breath any great drama in Parliament


at that point. People like clearly, will take a position that will say


we should take amendments, and that there should be another referendum


on the deal when that finally transpired. I think most


Conservative MPs will be cajoled into falling into line, and the


Labour Party seems to have suffered this catastrophic loss of nerve on


the European issue. Later in the parliament, do you expect to see a


motion of no confidence after some business or other decides to move to


Europe? It will depend on what happens next. My view is, the


Government is in the honeymoon phase. All the unbridled applause


and praise from the Brexit press, the Conservative backbenchers, who


are quite zealous about this, they are quiescent at the moment. This


will change, because Theresa May has two options. She will either have to


compromise with the EU, which I hope she does in the national interest,


but in doing so she will aggravate and annoy a lot of zealous people in


her own party. Or she will have to stick with what she has, and bicker


heels in, which will be bad for the country. She can't compromise on


immigration, Kenji? I am a supporter of British people being able to


work, travel and study elsewhere in the EU and vice versa. I would


suggest two things. First, why does Theresa May never mention that


immigration from outside the EU is still running at higher levels than


from within? Many of the publicly expressed reservations about


immigration were about pictures of people jumping on and off trucks in


Dover, illegal immigration, nothing to do with the EU. Or those people


travelling across the Mediterranean, nothing to do with freedom of


movement. Why clobber German engineers or Latvian fruit pickers


we happier when the issue of immigration is wider? And why not


reach out to those other European politicians who say they also


believe there should be some qualifications, as the raw ready, to


freedom of movement? Do you have no sympathy for communities up and down


the country that think they have changed too far and too fast. Look


at Boston and Stoke-on-Trent - vast cultural change very quickly. It's


not surprising people are fed up, is it? Of course, I understand. Theresa


May is listening to those people. Just clobbering people who have come


from the EU is not the answer to people crossing to Dover in the dead


of night. More people have come out of -- have come into our country


from outside the EU but the last 40 years. If you're worried about


numbers, which is what we are told, why are we only squeezing that part


of immigration which is actually helpful to our country and ignore


the larger part? You mention that the Labour Party seems confused


about this. And the Lib Dems have been doing very well in local


council by-elections. Some people are saying this will be a big year


Lib Dem revival. What you think is the future for the Labour Party in


the north of England? There is a prospect that the fate that occurred


to the Labour Party north of the border will now, in one form or


another, happened south of the border. It is in danger of being


cannibalised by Ukip at one end and the Lib Dems at the other. The


ambivalence and lack of clarity from Labour about the biggest issue of


our times, delivering helplessly in the middle-of-the-road, is only


going to make their fate worse. It seems laughable to think that a


party with nine MPs could become the main opposition party, what do you


see this as such a moment in our national choice that there is a


moment for the Lib Dems? This dividing line, in favour of


embracing Europe or not, is the dividing line in politics,


particularly in the age of Trump and Putin and the chauvinism of people


like that. And you need to make a choice about where you stand, and


the Labour Party doesn't seem to stand anywhere, while the Lib Dems


have a clear position. That will lead to changes in the years ahead.


Thank you very much, Nick Clegg. Now with news of what's coming up


straight after this programme, Join us live from Bradford at 10am


when after millions of women around the globe protested against


President Trump, we will ask, is the system still stacked against women?


Then, does prison work? And should have -- and should religion have any


role to play in politics? Now, coming up later this morning,


Andrew Neil will be talking about the impact of Donald Trump's


presidency with a Trump insider And he'll be joined by the Shadow


Home Secretary, Diane Abbott. That's the Sunday Politics


at 11 here on BBC 1. Labour supporters are now deeply


split between angry Remainers Desperately trying to look


in both directions at once, the party is in danger of sounding


incoherent, and with two key by-elections


coming up, time is short. John McDonnell, the Shadow


Chancellor, joins me. That is the big problem, isn't it?


You have passionately pro-remain and passionately pro-Brexit people in


the Labour Party, and they both want to hear totally different messages


from you. It makes it hard to have a coherent message. it's a challenge,


and I think Jeremy Corbyn has taken up courageous position in that he


recognises that you've got to bring the country together at some stage.


It will be a traditional British compromise that will come further


down the line, almost inevitably. There is a divide, not just in the


Labour Party but in the country. The Liberals argue they want a second


referendum to overturn the last one, that Brexiteers want to take us out


and ignore the rest of the population. Remember what Aneurin


Bevan said about the middle-of-the-road. There will be a


compromise, and the Labour Party will drive that and bring sides


together. Of course, it's a tough decision to make. It's the right


decision and a leadership position. This week the Prime Minister laid


out her plans for Brexit. It was a speech, it wasn't one. It gave more


clarity but she also said if Britain gets a bad deal, we will leave and


have an alternative economic model which would mean cutting taxes. Some


people have called that a Singapore model, what's your reaction? It is a


kamikaze approach to negotiations because it would cause problems with


trade agreements across the world, it would destroy our industrial


base, and undermine our services as well. I honestly think... Do you


think it is a hollow threat? Yes and also a dangerous threat. You need to


go in with strength but to exaggerate the threat like that


which cannot be realised. It also means cutting our corporation tax to


12.5%, the Irish rate. 120 billion by 2022 given away to corporations,


how then will we fund our NHS? Let me ask you about another internal


matter, we have the Article 50 vote coming up and more than 40 Labour


MPs who publicly discussed their unhappiness because they see it as a


choice between two bad options, we will either get Theresa May's deal


or the thing we have just been talking about so why should we help


to happen? You are an old serial rebel yourself, you will surely not


with these people into voting... What we will do step-by-step, first


of all we have got to recognise the referendum result and parliament


should respect that, we have said that all the way through. But what


we will try and it was well is make sure we amend whatever comes through


Article 50, whether it is a motion or a piece of legislation. We think


there will be a majority across the House of Commons in not just our


party but working with others and Conservatives as well, to amend it


in such a way that we get proper Parliamentary scrutiny. Are you


going to be putting forward an amendment in those terms if it comes


to the House of Commons, saying you want full Parliamentary scrutiny and


looking again at the matter of the single market? We want to make sure


there is full Parliamentary scrutiny throughout the process. Ken Clarke


came up with a good proposal which I thought was interesting, he asked


the Prime Minister will there be regular statements and will we be


able to vote on them? Because that way MPs representing their


constituents will be able to influence negotiations as we go


along, and that way I think we will arrive at Labour's position which is


a real compromise that will work. You have two bid by elections coming


up, Stoke-on-Trent and Copeland. I asked Jeremy Corbyn last week if you


were toast if you lost them and he said no, but in fact it would be a


terrible blow for the Labour Party. If a government party was taking


seats from the opposition party it is unprecedented. Since Brexit you


cannot calculate by-election results on what has gone on in the past so


we have got to fight for every vote and that is what we will do. I'm


angry by the statements by Mr Nuttall today, taking the electorate


for granted. It sounds as if you are preparing to lose this. Not at all,


we are fighting vote by vote. Remember, Paul Nuttall wants to


privatise the NHS and I think people will wake up to those threats. He


said it publicly, is on the record. After Brexit, whoever is in charge


in Westminster will be able to control immigration with the EU,


what would Labour's policy be in those circumstances? The Government


will withdraw from the freedom of movement, we know that so we will


try to ensure the Government is accountable on that matter and


ensure it is a fair system introduced. It's also with regard to


the protection of workers' rights, so we will look to ensure this, but


we will work with European colleagues as well to make sure


there is a fair system right the way across Europe if we can. I've been


speaking to a lot of Labour voting people in the last few weeks and


months, and there's a sense the Labour Party could be on the edge of


a catastrophic collapse of some kind. Is there any part of you that


thinks this could be a very dangerous period for us? I think


you're talking to the wrong people. I was on the streets of Brighton


yesterday... I was talking to some people in Manchester and they said


the atmosphere is pretty toxic. I'm a Scouser, I come from Liverpool and


go there regularly. We realise the serious situation or countries


facing as a result of Brexit and we realised that has to be a sensible


compromise that protects everyone. Particularly jobs, wages, and feel


economy overall. We have got to grow, and you will see that over the


next 12 months. This is a difficult period, it's been 19 months since


the general election, half of that has been engaged in leadership


elections so no wonder people see us as a divided party. Let's make this


absolutely clear, Jeremy Corbyn will lead us into the next general


election and we will win it. You have seen the Trident story in the


Sunday Times this morning, the suggestion is that one of these


missiles misfired badly and there has been a news blackout to cover up


since. People on both sides of the argument on Trident would have


expected that to have been reported to Parliament and the fact Theresa


May didn't is extremely worrying and I think questions have to be asked


about that. John McDonnell, thanks for talking to us.


The American soprano Joyce Di Donato is one of the greatest


A Grammy-award winner, who also won hearts here for her rendition


of Rule Britannia at the Last Night of the Proms, she's


passionate about making opera accessible to all audiences.


And she's even decided to go to prison to make her case.


I'm going to talk to Joyce in a moment, but first


here she is performing something special for us today.


On inauguration weekend, an American classic.


Wow. A very old song. Folk tune that has been handed down from generation


to generation. I grew up in Kansas City right along the river so it's a


very personal song. I mentioned at the beginning of the programme that


it looks like the National endowment for the arts projects will be


withdrawn by the new president. We don't know that for sure but what


would it mean for the arts in America if that was true? It would


mean devastation for a lot of the smaller organisations that rely on


funding to support the programmes, and for the large organisations it


means tougher fundraising. The interesting thing the arts in 2013


contributed almost 750 billion to the economy and it was 4.2% of the


GDP. The proposed budget they are asking for in 2017 is just over 150


million, it is nothing and yet it will mean devastation for a lot of


programmes. You're a very well-known opera singer and you have taken two


people who don't fully here opera, including in prison and elsewhere.


Do they get it? It is working and transforming their lives. One of the


men, Joe Wilson, who I've established a good relationship


with, I went a second time and he said I had no idea this world


existed but now I know I have to write an opera. It's a chance for


them to come in and understand their humanity better. I understand my


humanity better because this music and the poetry shows me my dark and


light and allows me to understand it better. And you have a new album, In


War And Peace, baroque opera, relatively early opera, and they are


intense, they move from darkness to light within a few bars. And for


that reason they sound modern to my ear today. They are talking about


themes that you are talking about on your programme today, as timeless as


ever. For those who think it is abstract, I will play a clip from


you singing Handel. I don't understand how you can sing


like that on your knees sitting on the floor, it must be really hard.


Training! And it all comes from here. Absolutely. And you are only


the second or third non-British person to be asked to sing that


song, it's a very old-fashioned patriotic British song, how did it


feel for an American to be singing it? I was trembling in my boots,


draped in gorgeous Vivienne Westwood in the union Jack. It's an


extraordinary thing to give people that moment in the Albert Hall. Of


course Vivienne Westwood is also the Prime Minister's favourite designer


so you share that at least. Thank you very much. I'm joined now by the


Prime Minister. Welcome, Theresa May. You are going to Washington to


meet Donald Trump on Friday and it's been reported in the papers that he


will come here in the summer, are you hoping that will happen? I would


look forward to welcoming him some time this year if that's possible,


but in terms of state visit that's a matter for Buckingham Palace and


they haven't announced their visits for this year yet. What did you make


of his inauguration speech? It had a very clear message to it, about


putting America first. But if you think about it, any leader, any


government, as we do here in the United Kingdom, when we look at any


issue we make sure we are putting the interests of British people


first. And you are going on Friday to talk to him, is that right? Yes,


I will be talking to him on Friday and bears many issues to talk about


because obviously the special relationship between the UK and the


US has been strong for many years. We have a opportunity to talk about


our possible trading relationship but also some of the worlds


challenges we will face, like defeating terrorism, the conflict in


Syria... Because this is a man who Britain needs but is also incredibly


divisive. Your own policy chief said the speech you have just praise was


deliberately divisive and confrontational and showed the


politics of hate and a lot of people agreed with him. What I think is


important is that when I sit down with Donald Trump, I will talk about


building on that special relationship. He says he wants to


see a very strong relationship between the UK and the US going into


the future. There are issues we will work together on, the importance of


Nato for example, defeating terrorism. These are issues where we


share the challenges, we see the threat and have worked together in


the past and will in the future. You are one of the most prominent female


political leaders in the world, 2 million women marched about what


Donald Trump said about women. You must be torn between someone who


wants a good deal from him and someone who will talk truth to this


particular version of power, which will it be? Will you raise the issue


of his treatment of women? First, I have already said that some


of his comments towards women are unacceptable. He has apologised for


some of them himself. When I sit down, I think the bigger statement


that will be made about the role of women is the fact that I will be


there whereas a female Prime Minister, talking to him directly


about the interests that we share. You won't raise it directly? Andrew,


I have a track record, if you look at what I have done in defending the


rights of women, domestic violence and so forth, I am proud to be only


the second female Prime Minister the United Kingdom has had. Both of us


conservatives. The Conservative Party has put female Prime Ministers


here. I will talk to Donald Trump about the issues we share, about how


we can build on the special relationship. It's the special


relationship that also enables us to say when we do find things


unacceptable. And you will put that? I won't be afraid to put something I


find unacceptable to Donald Trump. He has called Nato obsolete. I have


spoken to him about Nato. Nato is very important and has been at the


forefront of our security in Europe, and we work together in Nato. We


have both made the point before about contributions from countries.


The UK is spending 2% of GDP on defence, and I think that is


important. Do you agree about other Nato countries not paying their way?


There are countries that are paying 2% of GDP and others that are


working towards that. What is important is that we recognise the


value of Nato, which he does, as an organisation that is helping us to


defend Europe and defend the interests of all of those allies who


are in Nato. After Brexit, we need a good free trade deal from Donald


Trump, and yet, this is the most protectionist president America has


had for a very long time. You were lauding free-trade at Davos in


Switzerland. China is talking about free trade. Donald Trump is tearing


up free trade. How is he a man we can make a good deal with? He has


also spoken about the importance of a trade arrangement with the UK, and


that that is something they are looking to talk to us about at an


early stage, and I would expect to be able to talk to him about that


alongside the other issues I will discuss with him in Washington. Free


trade is important around the world. I believe globalisation is important


and brings economic benefits to our countries, but we do need to make


sure, as I said this week, that that prosperity is spread across the


whole of the UK. That is why I am introducing the modern industrial


strategy this week, so that we can ensure we are building on the


strength of our economy across the whole UK. In schools, this is


putting a new layer into the education system for technical


education, which isn't provided for in this country. It is a variety of


things. Yes, we will put an emphasis on technical education, looking at


how we can extend some of the maths schools we have set up across the


country, and crucially, it is about bringing together all parts of


Government that have an impact on the economy and industry across a


whole range of sectors, including services and manufacturing. It is


about saying what our strengths are. We are coming together as a country,


forging our future and shaping a new future for the UK as a global


Britain. How can we do that? Is this a moment where we will see a real


change in our industrial position? We will lose some banking jobs,


let's not argue about how many. Since I have been reporting


politics, we have been saying that we are too reliant on financial


services and don't do enough manufacturing. Is this a moment


where changes? We have seen changes in the economy in the UK, but the


modern industrial strategy will be about asking what the shape of the


economy we want the future is, where the successful sectors are that we


can encourage to grow, but also, what are the sectors we need to look


at the future? There was a lot we can do in science and innovation.


Our chief scientist is looking at a battery Institute. Battery


technology, we leave their way on that already, and there is a lot


more we can. Where are the sectors that we can build on for the future?


Crucially, let's look at the strengths of the whole UK to make


sure this is an economy that works for everyone. This is part of my


overall plan for Britain. You made a very important speech at Lancaster


house this week, talking about your plans for Brexit. You have been


working on for months and months, and I am sure it is thought through,


and in that speech, you said that if Britain had to walk away from a bad


deal inside the EU, and I am quoting, we would have the freedom


to set the competitive tax rates and embrace the policies that would


attract the world's best companies and investors to Britain. Can I ask


what those policies would be? Let me explain why I made that point,


because this is important. I have every expectation that we will be


able to achieve a very good trade deal with the EU. I think that not


just because it is going to be good for the UK, but also it is going to


be good for the European Union too, so I want a trade deal with the EU


which ensures that our companies have the best access to operate


within the single European market in goods and services, but I am very


clear that on behalf of the British people, I don't want to sign up to a


bad deal for the UK, so it is right that we say that we will look at the


alternatives. What is the alternative? Whatever the


circumstances, whatever the deal we sign up to or if we don't get a good


deal, I want to retain the competitiveness of the British


economy, and that is why we will look at those options. Let's come to


those options. It has been suggested we could turn Britain into a tax


haven of some kind - is that on the agenda if we get a bad deal? We will


look at the competitor that the soggy economy. I don't think we will


have to walk away, but I have every confidence because of the interest


of the EU as well that we will be able to get a good deal. You are


asking me to go into details... You raised it. It has been noticed all


across the EU, and people have been talking about little else in


Brussels, Paris and Berlin. You mentioned specifically cutting tax


rates, but beyond that, argues seriously suggesting that if we


don't get a good deal, we would shred workers' writes, allow


ourselves to become some kind of tax haven, because that is what it


sounded like? On the rights of workers, I have said on more than


one occasion that this is a Government that will protect those


rights. More than that, it is a Government that has set up a review


of the modern labour market to ask the question, have the rights of


workers kept pace with the way the labour market is developing? What I


was doing in that speech was setting out a number of things. First,


showing that as a country we are coming together to shape our future.


You are elegantly moving away from what I am trying to ask you about,


which is, what is the alternative? Does it involve cutting corporation


tax, as John McDonnell was suggesting, to 12.5%? We are looking


down the barrel of a gun and if it is a possibility, we need to think


about it. The contradiction is that you are a traditional Conservative


Conservative, concerned about the just about managing people, you want


everyone to pay tax and so forth, and now you are suggesting we could


be some kind of offshore Singapore, with low tax rates, low regulation -


is that really an option? It is very simple, what I am saying. For the


vast majority of the public, this is exactly what they would want their


Prime Minister to be doing. We want to negotiate a good deal with the EU


for our trading relations. It will be for the sake of our economy and


for the sake of theirs too. If you let me finish... I have every


expectation that we will be able to negotiate that good deal, but it is


only right that I, as British Prime Minister, should say that we are not


going to sign up to a bad deal for the UK. Whatever the arrangement is,


whether we have had that good deal, whether we have had to say that it's


a bad deal which we won't sign up to, we will maintain the


competitiveness of the British economy. How we do that will be


something that will be looked at in detail should that be the


eventuality that we come to. Our focus at the moment is on ensuring


that we get that good deal that enables us to have the strategic


partnership with Europe that I want to continue to have. We are leaving


the EU but not Europe. It is possible that we will have to go


down this second group. We don't know that we won't, which is why it


matters. Philip Hammond has talked about the alternative economic


model, and I am working out what that could be. The logical answer


is, if we are outside the free market area, we could try to


deregulate and become, as it were, the low tax, low regulation


alternative. If that is what we're talking about, I think we need to


know that. What I have just said is, obviously, we will, depending on how


the negotiations go, if we get to the point where we feel there is a


bad deal, obviously, we will have looked at that eventuality and what


we can put in place of that. You mention the regulation, but what


people forget is that when we leave the EU, at that point, EU law will


come into UK law and everyone will know where they stand at that point


so we can have a smooth exit, which I think is right. At that point, it


will then be possible for us to look at our regulations. What I am doing


this week is crucial to all of this week, which is setting out a modern


industrial strategy which is about setting the basis for the


competitiveness of the British economy. In that same speech, you


seemed to suggest that if we did not get the right deal, that we would


cease security and surveillance relationships with other European


countries, as if our GCHQ speciality was on the table in those talks.


That is, presumably, aim mistaken -- a mistaken interpretation. There are


lots of issues that come under the remit of the EU in intelligence, and


they are part of maintaining our security and intelligence. They will


be part of the negotiation. They will have to be, because we are


there in those relationships. That is on the table? If you listen


carefully, Andrew, to what I've said, let me give you some examples


- there are certain border systems in Europe that we are members of as


members of the EU. We will have to talk about what our future


relationship is. We are a member of Europol and we will have to talk


about what our future relationship is. There are issues in the justice,


home affairs and Security area where they will be part of the


negotiations precisely because we are there because of our membership


of the EU. What I said in my speech is that I want to continue to have


that good close cooperation. If you look at the threats we face


collectively at the moment, and individual countries, now is not the


time to cooperate less but to cooperate more. You will have seen


the story this morning about a Trident misfire that was kept from


the House of Commons and the public. When you make that first speech in


July in the House of Commons about Trident, did you know that misfire


had occurred? I have absolute faith in our Trident missiles. When I made


the speech, we were talking about whether or not we should renew


Trident, whether or not we should have an independent nuclear


deterrent in the future. Did you know that had happened? I think we


should defend our country and play our part. Jeremy Corbyn things we


shouldn't. This is a serious incident - did you know about it


when you spoke to the House of Commons? The issue in the House of


Commons was serious. It was about looking to the future and whether we


should have a replacement Trident. That is what we were talking about.


That is what the House of Commons voted for. I believe in defending


our country, Jeremy Corbyn voted against it and doesn't want to


defend our country will stop Prime Minister, did you know? There at


test that take place all the time, regularly, for our nuclear


deterrent. What we were talking about... OK, I'm not going to get an


answer to this. Can I ask about one other thing, if I may? Social care


is in crisis in the country. The second most Conservative council in


the country, in Surrey, under David Hodge, has suggested a 15% rise in


council tax so that Surrey has a decent social care system, properly


funded. Do you approve of what he has done? If you were in Surrey,


would you vote for that yourself? We recognise there are pressures on


social care, which is why we have put extra money into social care. We


have allowed local authorities to raise extra money through the social


care preset, but what local authorities do in relation to their


council tax is a matter for them and between them and their electorates.


What we have done is put extra money in. We have enabled them to raise


money through the social care preset, but this isn't just about


the amount of money that is available. We need to ensure that


best practice is spread around the country. But it is quite a lot of


money. There are some councils where there are virtually no delayed


discharges from possible into social care. There are others, 24 councils,


that account for 50% of delayed discharges. Let's look at what is


happening in the system. Then, crucially, this is an issue that has


been ducked by governments for too long, which is why I have setup work


to say that we need to find a solution so we have a long-term


sustainability of our social care provision. It's what people want and


what the Government will do. Prime Minister, good luck in Washington


and thank you for speaking to us. For all the latest


political news and debate, tune in


to the Sunday Politics at 11, where we'll be analysing


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