22/01/2017 The Andrew Marr Show


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22/01/2017

Andrew Marr is joined by Theresa May, John McDonnell and Nick Clegg. Reviewing the papers are Anushka Asthana and Piers Morgan. Joyce DiDonato performs live.


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"From this day forward, it's going to be only America first".

:00:00.:00:08.

Not a big surprise, perhaps, but where does it leave Britain

:00:09.:00:16.

after Theresa May made it clear we are leaving the single market?

:00:17.:00:18.

And, therefore, we need a special deal from the Donald.

:00:19.:00:38.

Theresa May is off to Washington shortly and the Prime Minister joins

:00:39.:00:42.

us live later to talk Brexit and Trump.

:00:43.:00:46.

Who better to come up with some answers than Nick Clegg

:00:47.:00:58.

for the Liberal Democrats and the Shadow Chancellor

:00:59.:01:00.

Reviewing the news after an extraordinary

:01:01.:01:09.

week, one of Donald Trump's cheerleaders in London,

:01:10.:01:13.

And the Guardian's Anushka Asthana, they'll get on famously I'm sure.

:01:14.:01:21.

There have been hints that President Trump might cancel

:01:22.:01:24.

endowments to the Arts in the United States.

:01:25.:01:27.

One of America's finest singers will be here to talk about that,

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and performs a classic from the Great American song book.

:01:30.:01:33.

But first the news with Roger Johnson.

:01:34.:02:00.

Theresa May will become the first foreign leader to meet the new US

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The announcement was made during Donald Trump's

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first day in office, which also saw a series of protests

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In the nation's capital, they've rarely seen a rally quite like this.

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Not since the Vietnam War have so many people come together

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in defence of women's rights and minority rights,

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liberties these people believe could be imperilled

:02:23.:02:24.

The man himself was visiting the headquarters of the CIA whilst

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Less concerned about secrets, it appeared, than crowd sizes,

:02:33.:02:40.

in particular reports of the attendance at his

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It looked like a million, a million people.

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They showed a field where there was practically

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That theme was echoed in an unscheduled news conference

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a short while later before confirming that

:03:03.:03:04.

Britain's Theresa May would be the first foreign leader

:03:05.:03:06.

The new White House press spokesman railed against reports that Mr Trump

:03:07.:03:17.

had failed to attract as large a crowd to his inauguration

:03:18.:03:20.

This was the largest audience to witness

:03:21.:03:23.

These attempts to lessen the enthusiasm of the inauguration

:03:24.:03:27.

Size clearly matters greatly to Donald Trump, and regardless

:03:28.:03:36.

of the inauguration crowds, the crowd at yesterday's protest

:03:37.:03:39.

was so large that a march on the White House proved impossible

:03:40.:03:42.

because there were so many people present.

:03:43.:03:43.

The Ministry of Defence has insisted it has full confidence

:03:44.:03:54.

in the Trident nuclear defence system, despite reports that a test

:03:55.:03:56.

According to the Sunday Times, a missile fired from a submarine

:03:57.:04:00.

in the Atlantic Ocean veered off course and in the direction

:04:01.:04:03.

Labour is calling for an inquiry into the allegations.

:04:04.:04:12.

Delays in assessing the needs of patients are causing

:04:13.:04:14.

a bed-blocking crisis in hospitals, according to the watchdog

:04:15.:04:16.

Research seen by BBC 5 Live suggests many social care

:04:17.:04:25.

assessments are failing to happen in the recommended

:04:26.:04:27.

The Department of Health said it's investing an extra ?900 million

:04:28.:04:30.

The former president of The Gambia, Yahya Jammeh, has flown into exile,

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22 years after taking control of the African state in a coup.

:04:36.:04:40.

He started a political crisis when he refused to accept

:04:41.:04:42.

the outcome of the country's election in December.

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But he finally agreed to hand over power to the winner, Adama Barrow,

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after the leaders of neighbouring countries threatened

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The next news on BBC One is at one o'clock.

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If Donald Trump is dividing America and Britain he is certainly dividing

:04:58.:05:13.

the papers. Here we have the Mail on Sunday, very anti-Trump. The

:05:14.:05:28.

observer not very pro-Trump, the darker side of human nature,

:05:29.:05:35.

insidious claims of jealousy, envy, greed and hubris, it says. Then

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there's the Sunday Telegraph. Trump's new deal for Britain, and by

:05:40.:05:45.

and large very positive coverage. And the Sunday Times, Trump's

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triumph, and the story about misfiring a nuclear missile and the

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alleged cover-ups which we were hearing about in the news. An awful

:05:54.:05:58.

lot to talk about. Piers Morgan, where are we going to start? The man

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of the moment, the man of the global attention right now. I was struck by

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the Telegraph's front page because whatever any individual in this

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country thinks about Donald Trump, his very divisive but he's also an

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Anglophile. His mother was born and raised in Scotland until she was 18,

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he thinks he is half British and according to the Telegraph he wants

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to fully embrace the special relationship, hence Theresa May

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being the first person invited to America. So you know him, can you

:06:35.:06:39.

sort something out for us? On the one hand we are told is the most

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protectionist president America has had for a long time and yet we rely

:06:43.:06:46.

on him now for a free-trade deal after Brexit, how will that work? He

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will put America first, he said. All of the Brits moaning about that

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phrase, we have just put Britain first so it is not completely

:06:58.:07:00.

different to what we are doing and it gives us a unique opportunity to

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work with the Americans. You have got to play to his ego, he has a

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stupendous ego, and according to the Telegraph who wants the full Monty

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when he comes to Britain including playing a round of golf at Balmoral

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while the Queen watches him play! You have to put aside any personal

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distaste for him, I accept the fact is now the most powerful man on

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earth, and in opposition leaving the European Union the Americans are our

:07:33.:07:38.

best and strongest ally again. Let's take advantage of it. And you have a

:07:39.:07:52.

story about Melania? Yes, lots of celebrities or hate Donald Trump,

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made it clear we will not address the first lady, Bob steps Ralph

:07:56.:08:00.

Lauren and she looked absolutely stunning in the Inauguration Day

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dress and the other dresses she's worn. Interestingly his stock price

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in his company has gone through the roof so Ralph Lauren may have the

:08:11.:08:16.

last laugh. There is a little line in the sofa, you are probably

:08:17.:08:24.

slightly less Trumpy part of the sofa. Piers Morgan, going for the

:08:25.:08:36.

fashion, and going for the sexiest story. This story on the Daily Mail

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suggests could Theresa May when she goes over there actually raise her

:08:45.:08:49.

feelings about his comments on women. Bush is in a terribly

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difficult position because she needs a lot from Donald Trump and at the

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same time, as a prominent female leader, she will be expected to

:08:58.:09:01.

raise these questions. As we've seen, she thinks some of the

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comments, particularly about the idea a powerful man can grow a woman

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are unacceptable but let's be honest, this will all be about

:09:10.:09:13.

trying to bolster that special relationship. It will be about

:09:14.:09:16.

talking about trade but it comes alongside this coverage in the

:09:17.:09:21.

papers today about some 2 million people marching around the world,

:09:22.:09:26.

not the Washington elite, not the Westminster elite, just people

:09:27.:09:31.

across America and the country. Some interesting signs, keep your laws

:09:32.:09:39.

off my... We won't mention that on television. Piers Morgan has argued

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it is anti-democratic, it is the epitome of democracy that people are

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able to speak out. Very positive coverage of that but perhaps less

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positive coverage by Rod Liddle who really goes for it in the Sunday

:09:56.:10:00.

Times. I want to declare I am a feminist, I believe completely in

:10:01.:10:06.

women's rights. I believe in all equality. I don't believe in rebid

:10:07.:10:11.

feminists, no, and the reason I used that phrase on Twitter was Bob steps

:10:12.:10:16.

Madonna, and what does she tell the masses to end the hate? She says I

:10:17.:10:21.

been thinking regularly about bombing the White House, then goes

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into a foul-mouthed rant about how disgusting Trump is. Then we had

:10:26.:10:32.

people making lewd jokes about incest with his daughter. It was a

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pretty hateful side yesterday, and the point Rod Liddle is making is

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actually, what is it about? If we don't like Donald Trump and we wish

:10:46.:10:51.

Hillary Clinton had won, sorry, sisters, but Donald Trump won. How

:10:52.:10:56.

many of these people who marched in America actually voted? Because

:10:57.:11:01.

Donald Trump got 52% in America of the white female vote, he got 40% of

:11:02.:11:07.

the total female vote. If everyone who had marched had voted for

:11:08.:11:11.

Hillary Clinton, he might not be there. So people who lose the

:11:12.:11:17.

election are not entitled to express their views? That is what democracy

:11:18.:11:20.

is about. This is a good piece by Helen Lewis who has picked out one

:11:21.:11:29.

person, -- who talk about people like Piers ever picked out one

:11:30.:11:37.

person like Madonna, and it is hitting out at this lazy assumption

:11:38.:11:46.

that somehow Hillary lost because of identity politics. What she argues

:11:47.:11:48.

is that those who analyse the election show Hillary Clinton spoke

:11:49.:11:55.

thousands of times about jobs and education, about inequality, and

:11:56.:12:00.

only a tiny bit about women's rights and racism. She argues that if you

:12:01.:12:05.

want to talk about identity politics, the wall was identity

:12:06.:12:12.

politics, being disparaging. About Mexicans of course. We are beginning

:12:13.:12:18.

to see the first signs of the Trump Administration, and signs of from

:12:19.:12:22.

Russia's war between the Trump Administration and the mainstream

:12:23.:12:26.

media, particularly CNN for home use to work. Yes, I personally wouldn't

:12:27.:12:31.

have voted for Donald Trump, he's not my politics, specifically on

:12:32.:12:35.

things like climate change and gun control, however he's the president.

:12:36.:12:40.

The media are involved in this war with a guy that they for months and

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months at the start of his campaign fuelled. Make no bones about it,

:12:47.:12:50.

they put him on prime-time television, they created the

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monster, then like Doctor Frankenstein said hang on, he might

:12:55.:12:58.

win, we better try to kill him. There was a British comedian who

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said I dare you, Trump, Ron, and now look what's happened. There is a

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headline on the CNN website, White House press secretary attacks media

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for accurately reporting inauguration crowds. To be fair,

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Donald Trump's spokesman was trying to claim there were more people

:13:22.:13:25.

there for the inauguration than their workforce Barack Obama, which

:13:26.:13:29.

is ridiculous, we know there were more therefore Barack Obama. Can

:13:30.:13:35.

this become a war between the President of the United States and

:13:36.:13:39.

the press corps? As a journalist I think it is very unhealthy. And he

:13:40.:13:49.

wants to privatise national public radio. I think he needs to calm down

:13:50.:13:52.

about the press and the press need to calm down about double Trump. If

:13:53.:13:57.

the press would afford him a bit of respect, they might get it back. I

:13:58.:14:01.

don't think we have got the paper here but we can talk a little bit

:14:02.:14:05.

about the industrial strategy story because that's the other big thing

:14:06.:14:08.

coming from the Government on this side this week, Theresa May saying

:14:09.:14:12.

she is putting a lot of money into colleges to train people in schools

:14:13.:14:16.

like bricklaying, plumbing and so forth. We hear a lot about this for

:14:17.:14:21.

years but now it's actually happening. I think Downing Street

:14:22.:14:31.

would argue that this focus on the industrial strategy is meant to be a

:14:32.:14:33.

continuation of her Brexit beach, so it's about speaking to the Brexit

:14:34.:14:36.

vote and trying to use this as an opportunity to rebalance the

:14:37.:14:38.

economy. The focus will be about technical skills, but as you say

:14:39.:14:42.

it's been talked about a lot and it hasn't happened. It's been talked

:14:43.:14:46.

about this extent a lot so the proof will be in pudding. Do you think we

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are at a moment when our economic policy changes quite radically? On

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the one hand we are losing allegedly lots of bankers because of Brexit

:14:58.:15:01.

and on the other hand is a lot of folks on rebuilding manufacturing

:15:02.:15:02.

and doing something for the north. All bets are off. We are in

:15:03.:15:12.

uncharted territory. I voted to remain. I didn't want this, but now

:15:13.:15:19.

we are where we are, a bit like with Trump, I am very positive, because I

:15:20.:15:23.

think you have two, being positive is the right attitude, until it all

:15:24.:15:27.

goes to hell in a handcart. If it does, the ones who voted remain can

:15:28.:15:32.

say, we told you. Meanwhile, Theresa May has made what appears to be a

:15:33.:15:38.

clear threat - if I don't get what I want, we will slash tax and take a

:15:39.:15:41.

different economic route in this country. Dominic Lawson as an

:15:42.:15:45.

interesting piece in the Sunday Times. He has written, we shouldn't

:15:46.:15:53.

be threatening EU leaders because we need their votes, ultimately. It is

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a good point. Having said that, from a negotiating point of view, we

:15:56.:15:59.

remember David Cameron trying to negotiate from a position of, I will

:16:00.:16:04.

stay in, whatever happens, give me a good deal. Anyone who has played

:16:05.:16:08.

poker knows that is not a smart way to do this. Theresa May beating the

:16:09.:16:14.

British Chester bit and saying, we can survive without you we have two,

:16:15.:16:20.

I think it is a good negotiating tactic. -- beating the British chest

:16:21.:16:27.

is a bit. The other story is the Stoke by-election. There are two big

:16:28.:16:32.

by-elections for the Labour Party, and they are facing a series of

:16:33.:16:38.

quite hard tests, particularly since Paul not all, the new Ukip leader

:16:39.:16:42.

who is writing in the Sunday Telegraph, is standing in Stoke

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Central. That's right. He is trying to drive a knife through Labour's

:16:47.:16:52.

coalition, which has been made more fragile by that Brexit boat. He says

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there is a joke doing the rounds that Ukip is the party of Stoke, in

:16:58.:17:06.

fact, they both are, but Ukip is the party of Stoke and Labour is the

:17:07.:17:10.

party of Stoke Newington. He is trying to hammer this idea that

:17:11.:17:14.

Labour represents the liberal, London boys. This will be -- London

:17:15.:17:28.

voice. This will be an immigration by-election. It will be indicative

:17:29.:17:32.

of how much impact the referendum had. But remember, the Tories have

:17:33.:17:36.

done a lot to squeeze Ukip on the issue Brexit. I have seen that the

:17:37.:17:41.

Tories are planning to go very hard in Stoke. People in the Mirror say

:17:42.:17:46.

today that Jeremy Corbyn's position could be in peril. He denies being

:17:47.:17:53.

toast. We have run out of time. Very quickly, my father had a stroke a

:17:54.:17:58.

few years ago, and we have all talked about what you have been

:17:59.:18:01.

through, and I think it is remarkable that you have been able

:18:02.:18:07.

to do this show. You wrote a great piece about the treatment you had in

:18:08.:18:12.

America, which has really worked. What I would now like to see is the

:18:13.:18:20.

proper double-blind trial. It could be cheaper if we did it on the NHS

:18:21.:18:23.

than things that we do at the moment. It is a great piece. On that

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moment of consensus, thank you very much indeed.

:18:32.:18:33.

Absolutely no complaints this week - it's been crystal clear, sunny,

:18:34.:18:36.

yes a bit cold of course, but fabulously beautiful.

:18:37.:18:39.

Some of those areas that have had clear skies could see dense fog

:18:40.:18:53.

patches tomorrow morning. More of that in a moment. Today, the best of

:18:54.:18:58.

the sunshine is in South East England and East Anglia. There will

:18:59.:19:04.

be a few wintry flurries in Scotland this afternoon, with plenty of

:19:05.:19:08.

cloud. Northern Ireland will see sunny spells. A cold day, most of us

:19:09.:19:13.

3-6dC. A bit milder than it has been in Wales and south-west England.

:19:14.:19:19.

Tonight, variable cloud, still a few light showers around. A frost but

:19:20.:19:25.

many of us again. Here comes the fog, especially into England and

:19:26.:19:29.

Wales. Not everyone will see it, but there could be dense freezing fog

:19:30.:19:35.

patches around during tomorrow morning's rush hour. Especially for

:19:36.:19:39.

parts of England and Wales, do check before you head out. A few patches

:19:40.:19:43.

are possible in Scotland and Northern Ireland. We will keep you

:19:44.:19:50.

updated. Fog is possible for some on Tuesday morning. It looks like a

:19:51.:19:54.

cold, settled week for much of England and Wales, but Scotland and

:19:55.:19:56.

Northern Ireland turning windier and wetter.

:19:57.:20:00.

No MP I can think of has been quite so outspoken in his urgent hostility

:20:01.:20:03.

to Theresa May's Brexit plans than the former Deputy Prime

:20:04.:20:06.

Minister and former leader of the Liberal Democrats,

:20:07.:20:08.

But it looks like a done deal, so how can the Liberal Democrats

:20:09.:20:13.

and their own rump of nine MPs really make any difference?

:20:14.:20:20.

Nick Clegg, the first thing to say is that at least we have clarity. I

:20:21.:20:26.

suppose it is not surprising that Theresa May says we can't stay

:20:27.:20:30.

inside the single market, because of the Brexit referendum was happily

:20:31.:20:33.

about immigration and taking control of freedom of movement, that means

:20:34.:20:37.

leaving the single market. But at least we have clarity. Yes, but the

:20:38.:20:41.

wrong kind of clarity. She made a choice, which I disagree with, but

:20:42.:20:46.

that is the choice she made. I don't agree with your characterisation.

:20:47.:20:50.

There are plenty of politicians across the EU who are saying there

:20:51.:20:54.

needs to be changed the freedom of movement, so there is scope for a

:20:55.:20:57.

Europe-wide approach to this that could satisfy some of the

:20:58.:21:01.

Government's needs. This is early days, the easy bit where the

:21:02.:21:06.

Government sets out its stall. There will now be a collision, in my view,

:21:07.:21:11.

quite a painful one, with reality with negotiating the 27 goverments

:21:12.:21:18.

and Parliaments. You can't on the one hand the spouse free trade and

:21:19.:21:21.

then yank yourself out of the world's most successful free trading

:21:22.:21:27.

area, the single market. There are other free trade deals you can do

:21:28.:21:30.

with other countries. People are saying, grey, we will have a new

:21:31.:21:37.

deal with America. No deal with America can replace what we are

:21:38.:21:44.

going to lose on our own doorstep. If you double the trade with

:21:45.:21:47.

America, Canada, New Zealand, Australia and India, you still would

:21:48.:21:55.

not trade as much as you do with our nearest neighbours in the EU. The

:21:56.:21:59.

reason is, geography still counts. Countries tend to trade most, in

:22:00.:22:04.

goods, at least, the country is nearest to them. People were told

:22:05.:22:08.

clearly during the referendum that if we voted to leave the EU, we

:22:09.:22:11.

would leave the single market, and they said that was a price worth

:22:12.:22:15.

paying because of the immigration issue. It seems that sometimes the

:22:16.:22:19.

Lib Dems cannot quite hear that message. My experience is that there

:22:20.:22:24.

are different reasons why people voted for Brexit. In my constituency

:22:25.:22:28.

in Sheffield, lots of people said they were voting against Brussels

:22:29.:22:31.

because they were so fed up with London. One person even told me in

:22:32.:22:35.

the a few hours before the polls open that he was voting for Brexit

:22:36.:22:39.

because he wanted to buy a house and wanted to see prices come down. As

:22:40.:22:44.

you know, there was no single manifesto from the Brexiteers saying

:22:45.:22:48.

what they wanted. That is the past, and the Government has stated what

:22:49.:22:52.

it wants to do. One thing I can guarantee is that what will not

:22:53.:22:55.

happen is that the rest of the EU will say, you can have your cake and

:22:56.:23:01.

eat it. There will be choices to be made. No one doubts that. My real

:23:02.:23:05.

question, however, is but might you hate the whole thing, wish it hadn't

:23:06.:23:10.

happened and would like to reverse it, but how can you have any effect

:23:11.:23:15.

on this? You have nine MPs. You may do well in council by-elections, but

:23:16.:23:19.

how can you possibly change anything? Events will drive a lot of

:23:20.:23:23.

this. Of course, if the Government plans turn out to be agreed

:23:24.:23:28.

effortlessly by the rest of the EU and something happens which has

:23:29.:23:32.

never happened before - a highly complex trade agreement is signed,

:23:33.:23:35.

sealed, done and dusted in 18 months, then of course, we should

:23:36.:23:40.

have the humility to say that we were wrong. People are saying this

:23:41.:23:48.

can be done quite quickly. I don't think anyone thinks it can be done

:23:49.:23:51.

on the ambition that the Prime Minister set up. A fundamental

:23:52.:23:55.

contradiction is, whether we like it or not, the biggest destination for

:23:56.:24:01.

our goods and service is that market place with its rules, so we will

:24:02.:24:04.

still had to abide by those rules. When that becomes clear, the British

:24:05.:24:08.

public will have some doubts. At that point, what happens? We have a

:24:09.:24:13.

court case this week which may require the Government to take the

:24:14.:24:17.

Article 50 triggering issue to the House of Commons. At that point,

:24:18.:24:20.

presumably, you and the other parties would come together and vote

:24:21.:24:25.

against it. I wouldn't hold your breath any great drama in Parliament

:24:26.:24:29.

at that point. People like clearly, will take a position that will say

:24:30.:24:34.

we should take amendments, and that there should be another referendum

:24:35.:24:38.

on the deal when that finally transpired. I think most

:24:39.:24:41.

Conservative MPs will be cajoled into falling into line, and the

:24:42.:24:45.

Labour Party seems to have suffered this catastrophic loss of nerve on

:24:46.:24:50.

the European issue. Later in the parliament, do you expect to see a

:24:51.:24:55.

motion of no confidence after some business or other decides to move to

:24:56.:24:59.

Europe? It will depend on what happens next. My view is, the

:25:00.:25:03.

Government is in the honeymoon phase. All the unbridled applause

:25:04.:25:08.

and praise from the Brexit press, the Conservative backbenchers, who

:25:09.:25:11.

are quite zealous about this, they are quiescent at the moment. This

:25:12.:25:17.

will change, because Theresa May has two options. She will either have to

:25:18.:25:21.

compromise with the EU, which I hope she does in the national interest,

:25:22.:25:24.

but in doing so she will aggravate and annoy a lot of zealous people in

:25:25.:25:28.

her own party. Or she will have to stick with what she has, and bicker

:25:29.:25:33.

heels in, which will be bad for the country. She can't compromise on

:25:34.:25:38.

immigration, Kenji? I am a supporter of British people being able to

:25:39.:25:42.

work, travel and study elsewhere in the EU and vice versa. I would

:25:43.:25:51.

suggest two things. First, why does Theresa May never mention that

:25:52.:25:54.

immigration from outside the EU is still running at higher levels than

:25:55.:25:59.

from within? Many of the publicly expressed reservations about

:26:00.:26:01.

immigration were about pictures of people jumping on and off trucks in

:26:02.:26:06.

Dover, illegal immigration, nothing to do with the EU. Or those people

:26:07.:26:12.

travelling across the Mediterranean, nothing to do with freedom of

:26:13.:26:17.

movement. Why clobber German engineers or Latvian fruit pickers

:26:18.:26:21.

we happier when the issue of immigration is wider? And why not

:26:22.:26:24.

reach out to those other European politicians who say they also

:26:25.:26:28.

believe there should be some qualifications, as the raw ready, to

:26:29.:26:33.

freedom of movement? Do you have no sympathy for communities up and down

:26:34.:26:38.

the country that think they have changed too far and too fast. Look

:26:39.:26:43.

at Boston and Stoke-on-Trent - vast cultural change very quickly. It's

:26:44.:26:48.

not surprising people are fed up, is it? Of course, I understand. Theresa

:26:49.:26:55.

May is listening to those people. Just clobbering people who have come

:26:56.:26:59.

from the EU is not the answer to people crossing to Dover in the dead

:27:00.:27:07.

of night. More people have come out of -- have come into our country

:27:08.:27:11.

from outside the EU but the last 40 years. If you're worried about

:27:12.:27:17.

numbers, which is what we are told, why are we only squeezing that part

:27:18.:27:19.

of immigration which is actually helpful to our country and ignore

:27:20.:27:25.

the larger part? You mention that the Labour Party seems confused

:27:26.:27:28.

about this. And the Lib Dems have been doing very well in local

:27:29.:27:32.

council by-elections. Some people are saying this will be a big year

:27:33.:27:37.

Lib Dem revival. What you think is the future for the Labour Party in

:27:38.:27:41.

the north of England? There is a prospect that the fate that occurred

:27:42.:27:46.

to the Labour Party north of the border will now, in one form or

:27:47.:27:50.

another, happened south of the border. It is in danger of being

:27:51.:27:54.

cannibalised by Ukip at one end and the Lib Dems at the other. The

:27:55.:27:58.

ambivalence and lack of clarity from Labour about the biggest issue of

:27:59.:28:03.

our times, delivering helplessly in the middle-of-the-road, is only

:28:04.:28:07.

going to make their fate worse. It seems laughable to think that a

:28:08.:28:10.

party with nine MPs could become the main opposition party, what do you

:28:11.:28:17.

see this as such a moment in our national choice that there is a

:28:18.:28:23.

moment for the Lib Dems? This dividing line, in favour of

:28:24.:28:29.

embracing Europe or not, is the dividing line in politics,

:28:30.:28:32.

particularly in the age of Trump and Putin and the chauvinism of people

:28:33.:28:36.

like that. And you need to make a choice about where you stand, and

:28:37.:28:40.

the Labour Party doesn't seem to stand anywhere, while the Lib Dems

:28:41.:28:43.

have a clear position. That will lead to changes in the years ahead.

:28:44.:28:45.

Thank you very much, Nick Clegg. Now with news of what's coming up

:28:46.:28:48.

straight after this programme, Join us live from Bradford at 10am

:28:49.:28:58.

when after millions of women around the globe protested against

:28:59.:29:00.

President Trump, we will ask, is the system still stacked against women?

:29:01.:29:06.

Then, does prison work? And should have -- and should religion have any

:29:07.:29:08.

role to play in politics? Now, coming up later this morning,

:29:09.:29:10.

Andrew Neil will be talking about the impact of Donald Trump's

:29:11.:29:13.

presidency with a Trump insider And he'll be joined by the Shadow

:29:14.:29:16.

Home Secretary, Diane Abbott. That's the Sunday Politics

:29:17.:29:19.

at 11 here on BBC 1. Labour supporters are now deeply

:29:20.:29:23.

split between angry Remainers Desperately trying to look

:29:24.:29:25.

in both directions at once, the party is in danger of sounding

:29:26.:29:30.

incoherent, and with two key by-elections

:29:31.:29:33.

coming up, time is short. John McDonnell, the Shadow

:29:34.:29:35.

Chancellor, joins me. That is the big problem, isn't it?

:29:36.:29:48.

You have passionately pro-remain and passionately pro-Brexit people in

:29:49.:29:51.

the Labour Party, and they both want to hear totally different messages

:29:52.:29:55.

from you. It makes it hard to have a coherent message. it's a challenge,

:29:56.:29:59.

and I think Jeremy Corbyn has taken up courageous position in that he

:30:00.:30:03.

recognises that you've got to bring the country together at some stage.

:30:04.:30:08.

It will be a traditional British compromise that will come further

:30:09.:30:12.

down the line, almost inevitably. There is a divide, not just in the

:30:13.:30:16.

Labour Party but in the country. The Liberals argue they want a second

:30:17.:30:19.

referendum to overturn the last one, that Brexiteers want to take us out

:30:20.:30:27.

and ignore the rest of the population. Remember what Aneurin

:30:28.:30:34.

Bevan said about the middle-of-the-road. There will be a

:30:35.:30:37.

compromise, and the Labour Party will drive that and bring sides

:30:38.:30:40.

together. Of course, it's a tough decision to make. It's the right

:30:41.:30:42.

decision and a leadership position. This week the Prime Minister laid

:30:43.:30:55.

out her plans for Brexit. It was a speech, it wasn't one. It gave more

:30:56.:30:59.

clarity but she also said if Britain gets a bad deal, we will leave and

:31:00.:31:03.

have an alternative economic model which would mean cutting taxes. Some

:31:04.:31:10.

people have called that a Singapore model, what's your reaction? It is a

:31:11.:31:18.

kamikaze approach to negotiations because it would cause problems with

:31:19.:31:22.

trade agreements across the world, it would destroy our industrial

:31:23.:31:26.

base, and undermine our services as well. I honestly think... Do you

:31:27.:31:35.

think it is a hollow threat? Yes and also a dangerous threat. You need to

:31:36.:31:39.

go in with strength but to exaggerate the threat like that

:31:40.:31:43.

which cannot be realised. It also means cutting our corporation tax to

:31:44.:31:57.

12.5%, the Irish rate. 120 billion by 2022 given away to corporations,

:31:58.:32:03.

how then will we fund our NHS? Let me ask you about another internal

:32:04.:32:07.

matter, we have the Article 50 vote coming up and more than 40 Labour

:32:08.:32:13.

MPs who publicly discussed their unhappiness because they see it as a

:32:14.:32:18.

choice between two bad options, we will either get Theresa May's deal

:32:19.:32:22.

or the thing we have just been talking about so why should we help

:32:23.:32:27.

to happen? You are an old serial rebel yourself, you will surely not

:32:28.:32:33.

with these people into voting... What we will do step-by-step, first

:32:34.:32:36.

of all we have got to recognise the referendum result and parliament

:32:37.:32:39.

should respect that, we have said that all the way through. But what

:32:40.:32:45.

we will try and it was well is make sure we amend whatever comes through

:32:46.:32:50.

Article 50, whether it is a motion or a piece of legislation. We think

:32:51.:32:56.

there will be a majority across the House of Commons in not just our

:32:57.:33:00.

party but working with others and Conservatives as well, to amend it

:33:01.:33:05.

in such a way that we get proper Parliamentary scrutiny. Are you

:33:06.:33:09.

going to be putting forward an amendment in those terms if it comes

:33:10.:33:13.

to the House of Commons, saying you want full Parliamentary scrutiny and

:33:14.:33:16.

looking again at the matter of the single market? We want to make sure

:33:17.:33:21.

there is full Parliamentary scrutiny throughout the process. Ken Clarke

:33:22.:33:25.

came up with a good proposal which I thought was interesting, he asked

:33:26.:33:29.

the Prime Minister will there be regular statements and will we be

:33:30.:33:34.

able to vote on them? Because that way MPs representing their

:33:35.:33:37.

constituents will be able to influence negotiations as we go

:33:38.:33:41.

along, and that way I think we will arrive at Labour's position which is

:33:42.:33:48.

a real compromise that will work. You have two bid by elections coming

:33:49.:33:53.

up, Stoke-on-Trent and Copeland. I asked Jeremy Corbyn last week if you

:33:54.:33:57.

were toast if you lost them and he said no, but in fact it would be a

:33:58.:34:02.

terrible blow for the Labour Party. If a government party was taking

:34:03.:34:06.

seats from the opposition party it is unprecedented. Since Brexit you

:34:07.:34:11.

cannot calculate by-election results on what has gone on in the past so

:34:12.:34:16.

we have got to fight for every vote and that is what we will do. I'm

:34:17.:34:27.

angry by the statements by Mr Nuttall today, taking the electorate

:34:28.:34:33.

for granted. It sounds as if you are preparing to lose this. Not at all,

:34:34.:34:41.

we are fighting vote by vote. Remember, Paul Nuttall wants to

:34:42.:34:45.

privatise the NHS and I think people will wake up to those threats. He

:34:46.:34:54.

said it publicly, is on the record. After Brexit, whoever is in charge

:34:55.:34:57.

in Westminster will be able to control immigration with the EU,

:34:58.:35:01.

what would Labour's policy be in those circumstances? The Government

:35:02.:35:06.

will withdraw from the freedom of movement, we know that so we will

:35:07.:35:09.

try to ensure the Government is accountable on that matter and

:35:10.:35:13.

ensure it is a fair system introduced. It's also with regard to

:35:14.:35:16.

the protection of workers' rights, so we will look to ensure this, but

:35:17.:35:25.

we will work with European colleagues as well to make sure

:35:26.:35:28.

there is a fair system right the way across Europe if we can. I've been

:35:29.:35:32.

speaking to a lot of Labour voting people in the last few weeks and

:35:33.:35:36.

months, and there's a sense the Labour Party could be on the edge of

:35:37.:35:41.

a catastrophic collapse of some kind. Is there any part of you that

:35:42.:35:46.

thinks this could be a very dangerous period for us? I think

:35:47.:35:49.

you're talking to the wrong people. I was on the streets of Brighton

:35:50.:35:55.

yesterday... I was talking to some people in Manchester and they said

:35:56.:36:00.

the atmosphere is pretty toxic. I'm a Scouser, I come from Liverpool and

:36:01.:36:05.

go there regularly. We realise the serious situation or countries

:36:06.:36:09.

facing as a result of Brexit and we realised that has to be a sensible

:36:10.:36:13.

compromise that protects everyone. Particularly jobs, wages, and feel

:36:14.:36:23.

economy overall. We have got to grow, and you will see that over the

:36:24.:36:31.

next 12 months. This is a difficult period, it's been 19 months since

:36:32.:36:34.

the general election, half of that has been engaged in leadership

:36:35.:36:39.

elections so no wonder people see us as a divided party. Let's make this

:36:40.:36:44.

absolutely clear, Jeremy Corbyn will lead us into the next general

:36:45.:36:48.

election and we will win it. You have seen the Trident story in the

:36:49.:36:51.

Sunday Times this morning, the suggestion is that one of these

:36:52.:36:55.

missiles misfired badly and there has been a news blackout to cover up

:36:56.:37:01.

since. People on both sides of the argument on Trident would have

:37:02.:37:04.

expected that to have been reported to Parliament and the fact Theresa

:37:05.:37:09.

May didn't is extremely worrying and I think questions have to be asked

:37:10.:37:13.

about that. John McDonnell, thanks for talking to us.

:37:14.:37:15.

The American soprano Joyce Di Donato is one of the greatest

:37:16.:37:18.

A Grammy-award winner, who also won hearts here for her rendition

:37:19.:37:22.

of Rule Britannia at the Last Night of the Proms, she's

:37:23.:37:24.

passionate about making opera accessible to all audiences.

:37:25.:37:26.

And she's even decided to go to prison to make her case.

:37:27.:37:30.

I'm going to talk to Joyce in a moment, but first

:37:31.:37:33.

here she is performing something special for us today.

:37:34.:37:35.

On inauguration weekend, an American classic.

:37:36.:37:37.

Wow. A very old song. Folk tune that has been handed down from generation

:37:38.:40:02.

to generation. I grew up in Kansas City right along the river so it's a

:40:03.:40:07.

very personal song. I mentioned at the beginning of the programme that

:40:08.:40:10.

it looks like the National endowment for the arts projects will be

:40:11.:40:14.

withdrawn by the new president. We don't know that for sure but what

:40:15.:40:17.

would it mean for the arts in America if that was true? It would

:40:18.:40:22.

mean devastation for a lot of the smaller organisations that rely on

:40:23.:40:25.

funding to support the programmes, and for the large organisations it

:40:26.:40:29.

means tougher fundraising. The interesting thing the arts in 2013

:40:30.:40:36.

contributed almost 750 billion to the economy and it was 4.2% of the

:40:37.:40:42.

GDP. The proposed budget they are asking for in 2017 is just over 150

:40:43.:40:49.

million, it is nothing and yet it will mean devastation for a lot of

:40:50.:40:53.

programmes. You're a very well-known opera singer and you have taken two

:40:54.:41:01.

people who don't fully here opera, including in prison and elsewhere.

:41:02.:41:06.

Do they get it? It is working and transforming their lives. One of the

:41:07.:41:10.

men, Joe Wilson, who I've established a good relationship

:41:11.:41:14.

with, I went a second time and he said I had no idea this world

:41:15.:41:19.

existed but now I know I have to write an opera. It's a chance for

:41:20.:41:24.

them to come in and understand their humanity better. I understand my

:41:25.:41:28.

humanity better because this music and the poetry shows me my dark and

:41:29.:41:33.

light and allows me to understand it better. And you have a new album, In

:41:34.:41:42.

War And Peace, baroque opera, relatively early opera, and they are

:41:43.:41:46.

intense, they move from darkness to light within a few bars. And for

:41:47.:41:51.

that reason they sound modern to my ear today. They are talking about

:41:52.:41:56.

themes that you are talking about on your programme today, as timeless as

:41:57.:42:00.

ever. For those who think it is abstract, I will play a clip from

:42:01.:42:03.

you singing Handel. I don't understand how you can sing

:42:04.:42:40.

like that on your knees sitting on the floor, it must be really hard.

:42:41.:42:47.

Training! And it all comes from here. Absolutely. And you are only

:42:48.:42:53.

the second or third non-British person to be asked to sing that

:42:54.:42:57.

song, it's a very old-fashioned patriotic British song, how did it

:42:58.:43:01.

feel for an American to be singing it? I was trembling in my boots,

:43:02.:43:07.

draped in gorgeous Vivienne Westwood in the union Jack. It's an

:43:08.:43:11.

extraordinary thing to give people that moment in the Albert Hall. Of

:43:12.:43:17.

course Vivienne Westwood is also the Prime Minister's favourite designer

:43:18.:43:22.

so you share that at least. Thank you very much. I'm joined now by the

:43:23.:43:27.

Prime Minister. Welcome, Theresa May. You are going to Washington to

:43:28.:43:32.

meet Donald Trump on Friday and it's been reported in the papers that he

:43:33.:43:35.

will come here in the summer, are you hoping that will happen? I would

:43:36.:43:41.

look forward to welcoming him some time this year if that's possible,

:43:42.:43:45.

but in terms of state visit that's a matter for Buckingham Palace and

:43:46.:43:49.

they haven't announced their visits for this year yet. What did you make

:43:50.:43:54.

of his inauguration speech? It had a very clear message to it, about

:43:55.:43:59.

putting America first. But if you think about it, any leader, any

:44:00.:44:05.

government, as we do here in the United Kingdom, when we look at any

:44:06.:44:08.

issue we make sure we are putting the interests of British people

:44:09.:44:12.

first. And you are going on Friday to talk to him, is that right? Yes,

:44:13.:44:19.

I will be talking to him on Friday and bears many issues to talk about

:44:20.:44:23.

because obviously the special relationship between the UK and the

:44:24.:44:26.

US has been strong for many years. We have a opportunity to talk about

:44:27.:44:30.

our possible trading relationship but also some of the worlds

:44:31.:44:35.

challenges we will face, like defeating terrorism, the conflict in

:44:36.:44:40.

Syria... Because this is a man who Britain needs but is also incredibly

:44:41.:44:44.

divisive. Your own policy chief said the speech you have just praise was

:44:45.:44:49.

deliberately divisive and confrontational and showed the

:44:50.:44:52.

politics of hate and a lot of people agreed with him. What I think is

:44:53.:44:56.

important is that when I sit down with Donald Trump, I will talk about

:44:57.:45:01.

building on that special relationship. He says he wants to

:45:02.:45:04.

see a very strong relationship between the UK and the US going into

:45:05.:45:09.

the future. There are issues we will work together on, the importance of

:45:10.:45:13.

Nato for example, defeating terrorism. These are issues where we

:45:14.:45:17.

share the challenges, we see the threat and have worked together in

:45:18.:45:21.

the past and will in the future. You are one of the most prominent female

:45:22.:45:25.

political leaders in the world, 2 million women marched about what

:45:26.:45:30.

Donald Trump said about women. You must be torn between someone who

:45:31.:45:33.

wants a good deal from him and someone who will talk truth to this

:45:34.:45:37.

particular version of power, which will it be? Will you raise the issue

:45:38.:45:39.

of his treatment of women? First, I have already said that some

:45:40.:45:49.

of his comments towards women are unacceptable. He has apologised for

:45:50.:45:53.

some of them himself. When I sit down, I think the bigger statement

:45:54.:45:56.

that will be made about the role of women is the fact that I will be

:45:57.:46:01.

there whereas a female Prime Minister, talking to him directly

:46:02.:46:06.

about the interests that we share. You won't raise it directly? Andrew,

:46:07.:46:11.

I have a track record, if you look at what I have done in defending the

:46:12.:46:17.

rights of women, domestic violence and so forth, I am proud to be only

:46:18.:46:21.

the second female Prime Minister the United Kingdom has had. Both of us

:46:22.:46:24.

conservatives. The Conservative Party has put female Prime Ministers

:46:25.:46:30.

here. I will talk to Donald Trump about the issues we share, about how

:46:31.:46:34.

we can build on the special relationship. It's the special

:46:35.:46:40.

relationship that also enables us to say when we do find things

:46:41.:46:45.

unacceptable. And you will put that? I won't be afraid to put something I

:46:46.:46:50.

find unacceptable to Donald Trump. He has called Nato obsolete. I have

:46:51.:46:57.

spoken to him about Nato. Nato is very important and has been at the

:46:58.:47:00.

forefront of our security in Europe, and we work together in Nato. We

:47:01.:47:05.

have both made the point before about contributions from countries.

:47:06.:47:10.

The UK is spending 2% of GDP on defence, and I think that is

:47:11.:47:15.

important. Do you agree about other Nato countries not paying their way?

:47:16.:47:21.

There are countries that are paying 2% of GDP and others that are

:47:22.:47:24.

working towards that. What is important is that we recognise the

:47:25.:47:30.

value of Nato, which he does, as an organisation that is helping us to

:47:31.:47:34.

defend Europe and defend the interests of all of those allies who

:47:35.:47:39.

are in Nato. After Brexit, we need a good free trade deal from Donald

:47:40.:47:44.

Trump, and yet, this is the most protectionist president America has

:47:45.:47:47.

had for a very long time. You were lauding free-trade at Davos in

:47:48.:47:52.

Switzerland. China is talking about free trade. Donald Trump is tearing

:47:53.:47:58.

up free trade. How is he a man we can make a good deal with? He has

:47:59.:48:03.

also spoken about the importance of a trade arrangement with the UK, and

:48:04.:48:06.

that that is something they are looking to talk to us about at an

:48:07.:48:10.

early stage, and I would expect to be able to talk to him about that

:48:11.:48:13.

alongside the other issues I will discuss with him in Washington. Free

:48:14.:48:18.

trade is important around the world. I believe globalisation is important

:48:19.:48:22.

and brings economic benefits to our countries, but we do need to make

:48:23.:48:28.

sure, as I said this week, that that prosperity is spread across the

:48:29.:48:33.

whole of the UK. That is why I am introducing the modern industrial

:48:34.:48:36.

strategy this week, so that we can ensure we are building on the

:48:37.:48:40.

strength of our economy across the whole UK. In schools, this is

:48:41.:48:45.

putting a new layer into the education system for technical

:48:46.:48:48.

education, which isn't provided for in this country. It is a variety of

:48:49.:48:55.

things. Yes, we will put an emphasis on technical education, looking at

:48:56.:48:59.

how we can extend some of the maths schools we have set up across the

:49:00.:49:04.

country, and crucially, it is about bringing together all parts of

:49:05.:49:08.

Government that have an impact on the economy and industry across a

:49:09.:49:13.

whole range of sectors, including services and manufacturing. It is

:49:14.:49:18.

about saying what our strengths are. We are coming together as a country,

:49:19.:49:22.

forging our future and shaping a new future for the UK as a global

:49:23.:49:28.

Britain. How can we do that? Is this a moment where we will see a real

:49:29.:49:32.

change in our industrial position? We will lose some banking jobs,

:49:33.:49:37.

let's not argue about how many. Since I have been reporting

:49:38.:49:41.

politics, we have been saying that we are too reliant on financial

:49:42.:49:44.

services and don't do enough manufacturing. Is this a moment

:49:45.:49:49.

where changes? We have seen changes in the economy in the UK, but the

:49:50.:49:54.

modern industrial strategy will be about asking what the shape of the

:49:55.:49:57.

economy we want the future is, where the successful sectors are that we

:49:58.:50:01.

can encourage to grow, but also, what are the sectors we need to look

:50:02.:50:08.

at the future? There was a lot we can do in science and innovation.

:50:09.:50:14.

Our chief scientist is looking at a battery Institute. Battery

:50:15.:50:17.

technology, we leave their way on that already, and there is a lot

:50:18.:50:20.

more we can. Where are the sectors that we can build on for the future?

:50:21.:50:25.

Crucially, let's look at the strengths of the whole UK to make

:50:26.:50:28.

sure this is an economy that works for everyone. This is part of my

:50:29.:50:33.

overall plan for Britain. You made a very important speech at Lancaster

:50:34.:50:37.

house this week, talking about your plans for Brexit. You have been

:50:38.:50:41.

working on for months and months, and I am sure it is thought through,

:50:42.:50:45.

and in that speech, you said that if Britain had to walk away from a bad

:50:46.:50:58.

deal inside the EU, and I am quoting, we would have the freedom

:50:59.:51:01.

to set the competitive tax rates and embrace the policies that would

:51:02.:51:03.

attract the world's best companies and investors to Britain. Can I ask

:51:04.:51:05.

what those policies would be? Let me explain why I made that point,

:51:06.:51:08.

because this is important. I have every expectation that we will be

:51:09.:51:12.

able to achieve a very good trade deal with the EU. I think that not

:51:13.:51:17.

just because it is going to be good for the UK, but also it is going to

:51:18.:51:21.

be good for the European Union too, so I want a trade deal with the EU

:51:22.:51:28.

which ensures that our companies have the best access to operate

:51:29.:51:32.

within the single European market in goods and services, but I am very

:51:33.:51:36.

clear that on behalf of the British people, I don't want to sign up to a

:51:37.:51:40.

bad deal for the UK, so it is right that we say that we will look at the

:51:41.:51:46.

alternatives. What is the alternative? Whatever the

:51:47.:51:51.

circumstances, whatever the deal we sign up to or if we don't get a good

:51:52.:51:55.

deal, I want to retain the competitiveness of the British

:51:56.:51:58.

economy, and that is why we will look at those options. Let's come to

:51:59.:52:02.

those options. It has been suggested we could turn Britain into a tax

:52:03.:52:06.

haven of some kind - is that on the agenda if we get a bad deal? We will

:52:07.:52:11.

look at the competitor that the soggy economy. I don't think we will

:52:12.:52:16.

have to walk away, but I have every confidence because of the interest

:52:17.:52:19.

of the EU as well that we will be able to get a good deal. You are

:52:20.:52:24.

asking me to go into details... You raised it. It has been noticed all

:52:25.:52:28.

across the EU, and people have been talking about little else in

:52:29.:52:33.

Brussels, Paris and Berlin. You mentioned specifically cutting tax

:52:34.:52:36.

rates, but beyond that, argues seriously suggesting that if we

:52:37.:52:40.

don't get a good deal, we would shred workers' writes, allow

:52:41.:52:45.

ourselves to become some kind of tax haven, because that is what it

:52:46.:52:51.

sounded like? On the rights of workers, I have said on more than

:52:52.:52:54.

one occasion that this is a Government that will protect those

:52:55.:52:58.

rights. More than that, it is a Government that has set up a review

:52:59.:53:01.

of the modern labour market to ask the question, have the rights of

:53:02.:53:08.

workers kept pace with the way the labour market is developing? What I

:53:09.:53:12.

was doing in that speech was setting out a number of things. First,

:53:13.:53:15.

showing that as a country we are coming together to shape our future.

:53:16.:53:20.

You are elegantly moving away from what I am trying to ask you about,

:53:21.:53:25.

which is, what is the alternative? Does it involve cutting corporation

:53:26.:53:31.

tax, as John McDonnell was suggesting, to 12.5%? We are looking

:53:32.:53:35.

down the barrel of a gun and if it is a possibility, we need to think

:53:36.:53:38.

about it. The contradiction is that you are a traditional Conservative

:53:39.:53:44.

Conservative, concerned about the just about managing people, you want

:53:45.:53:48.

everyone to pay tax and so forth, and now you are suggesting we could

:53:49.:53:52.

be some kind of offshore Singapore, with low tax rates, low regulation -

:53:53.:53:59.

is that really an option? It is very simple, what I am saying. For the

:54:00.:54:03.

vast majority of the public, this is exactly what they would want their

:54:04.:54:06.

Prime Minister to be doing. We want to negotiate a good deal with the EU

:54:07.:54:11.

for our trading relations. It will be for the sake of our economy and

:54:12.:54:17.

for the sake of theirs too. If you let me finish... I have every

:54:18.:54:22.

expectation that we will be able to negotiate that good deal, but it is

:54:23.:54:26.

only right that I, as British Prime Minister, should say that we are not

:54:27.:54:29.

going to sign up to a bad deal for the UK. Whatever the arrangement is,

:54:30.:54:34.

whether we have had that good deal, whether we have had to say that it's

:54:35.:54:38.

a bad deal which we won't sign up to, we will maintain the

:54:39.:54:40.

competitiveness of the British economy. How we do that will be

:54:41.:54:45.

something that will be looked at in detail should that be the

:54:46.:54:48.

eventuality that we come to. Our focus at the moment is on ensuring

:54:49.:54:53.

that we get that good deal that enables us to have the strategic

:54:54.:54:55.

partnership with Europe that I want to continue to have. We are leaving

:54:56.:55:01.

the EU but not Europe. It is possible that we will have to go

:55:02.:55:04.

down this second group. We don't know that we won't, which is why it

:55:05.:55:09.

matters. Philip Hammond has talked about the alternative economic

:55:10.:55:12.

model, and I am working out what that could be. The logical answer

:55:13.:55:16.

is, if we are outside the free market area, we could try to

:55:17.:55:20.

deregulate and become, as it were, the low tax, low regulation

:55:21.:55:23.

alternative. If that is what we're talking about, I think we need to

:55:24.:55:29.

know that. What I have just said is, obviously, we will, depending on how

:55:30.:55:38.

the negotiations go, if we get to the point where we feel there is a

:55:39.:55:40.

bad deal, obviously, we will have looked at that eventuality and what

:55:41.:55:43.

we can put in place of that. You mention the regulation, but what

:55:44.:55:47.

people forget is that when we leave the EU, at that point, EU law will

:55:48.:55:54.

come into UK law and everyone will know where they stand at that point

:55:55.:55:58.

so we can have a smooth exit, which I think is right. At that point, it

:55:59.:56:02.

will then be possible for us to look at our regulations. What I am doing

:56:03.:56:06.

this week is crucial to all of this week, which is setting out a modern

:56:07.:56:12.

industrial strategy which is about setting the basis for the

:56:13.:56:14.

competitiveness of the British economy. In that same speech, you

:56:15.:56:18.

seemed to suggest that if we did not get the right deal, that we would

:56:19.:56:25.

cease security and surveillance relationships with other European

:56:26.:56:30.

countries, as if our GCHQ speciality was on the table in those talks.

:56:31.:56:36.

That is, presumably, aim mistaken -- a mistaken interpretation. There are

:56:37.:56:46.

lots of issues that come under the remit of the EU in intelligence, and

:56:47.:56:55.

they are part of maintaining our security and intelligence. They will

:56:56.:57:02.

be part of the negotiation. They will have to be, because we are

:57:03.:57:04.

there in those relationships. That is on the table? If you listen

:57:05.:57:10.

carefully, Andrew, to what I've said, let me give you some examples

:57:11.:57:14.

- there are certain border systems in Europe that we are members of as

:57:15.:57:18.

members of the EU. We will have to talk about what our future

:57:19.:57:23.

relationship is. We are a member of Europol and we will have to talk

:57:24.:57:26.

about what our future relationship is. There are issues in the justice,

:57:27.:57:31.

home affairs and Security area where they will be part of the

:57:32.:57:34.

negotiations precisely because we are there because of our membership

:57:35.:57:37.

of the EU. What I said in my speech is that I want to continue to have

:57:38.:57:43.

that good close cooperation. If you look at the threats we face

:57:44.:57:48.

collectively at the moment, and individual countries, now is not the

:57:49.:57:51.

time to cooperate less but to cooperate more. You will have seen

:57:52.:57:58.

the story this morning about a Trident misfire that was kept from

:57:59.:58:02.

the House of Commons and the public. When you make that first speech in

:58:03.:58:05.

July in the House of Commons about Trident, did you know that misfire

:58:06.:58:11.

had occurred? I have absolute faith in our Trident missiles. When I made

:58:12.:58:14.

the speech, we were talking about whether or not we should renew

:58:15.:58:19.

Trident, whether or not we should have an independent nuclear

:58:20.:58:22.

deterrent in the future. Did you know that had happened? I think we

:58:23.:58:29.

should defend our country and play our part. Jeremy Corbyn things we

:58:30.:58:37.

shouldn't. This is a serious incident - did you know about it

:58:38.:58:41.

when you spoke to the House of Commons? The issue in the House of

:58:42.:58:44.

Commons was serious. It was about looking to the future and whether we

:58:45.:58:48.

should have a replacement Trident. That is what we were talking about.

:58:49.:58:52.

That is what the House of Commons voted for. I believe in defending

:58:53.:58:57.

our country, Jeremy Corbyn voted against it and doesn't want to

:58:58.:59:01.

defend our country will stop Prime Minister, did you know? There at

:59:02.:59:06.

test that take place all the time, regularly, for our nuclear

:59:07.:59:08.

deterrent. What we were talking about... OK, I'm not going to get an

:59:09.:59:15.

answer to this. Can I ask about one other thing, if I may? Social care

:59:16.:59:22.

is in crisis in the country. The second most Conservative council in

:59:23.:59:26.

the country, in Surrey, under David Hodge, has suggested a 15% rise in

:59:27.:59:31.

council tax so that Surrey has a decent social care system, properly

:59:32.:59:36.

funded. Do you approve of what he has done? If you were in Surrey,

:59:37.:59:41.

would you vote for that yourself? We recognise there are pressures on

:59:42.:59:45.

social care, which is why we have put extra money into social care. We

:59:46.:59:48.

have allowed local authorities to raise extra money through the social

:59:49.:59:54.

care preset, but what local authorities do in relation to their

:59:55.:59:58.

council tax is a matter for them and between them and their electorates.

:59:59.:00:02.

What we have done is put extra money in. We have enabled them to raise

:00:03.:00:08.

money through the social care preset, but this isn't just about

:00:09.:00:11.

the amount of money that is available. We need to ensure that

:00:12.:00:16.

best practice is spread around the country. But it is quite a lot of

:00:17.:00:21.

money. There are some councils where there are virtually no delayed

:00:22.:00:24.

discharges from possible into social care. There are others, 24 councils,

:00:25.:00:29.

that account for 50% of delayed discharges. Let's look at what is

:00:30.:00:33.

happening in the system. Then, crucially, this is an issue that has

:00:34.:00:37.

been ducked by governments for too long, which is why I have setup work

:00:38.:00:41.

to say that we need to find a solution so we have a long-term

:00:42.:00:46.

sustainability of our social care provision. It's what people want and

:00:47.:00:50.

what the Government will do. Prime Minister, good luck in Washington

:00:51.:00:52.

and thank you for speaking to us. For all the latest

:00:53.:00:53.

political news and debate, tune in

:00:54.:01:10.

to the Sunday Politics at 11, where we'll be analysing

:01:11.:01:13.

the week's big stories

:01:14.:01:16.

Andrew Marr is joined by prime minister Theresa May, shadow chancellor John McDonnell and Exiting the EU spokesperson for the Liberal Democrats Nick Clegg.

Reviewing the papers are Anushka Asthana of the Guardian and TV presenter and journalist Piers Morgan.

Joyce DiDonato performs live.