Browse content similar to 12/11/2015. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello it's Thursday, it's 9.15, I'm Victoria Derbyshire, | :00:00. | :00:00. | |
Murdered by her step-brother who acted out sick fantasies | :00:07. | :00:12. | |
after watching online pornography - Becky Watts was just 16 when she | :00:13. | :00:15. | |
was killed by the man she grew up with. | :00:16. | :00:17. | |
I just couldn't accept it. He seemed fine, loving. | :00:18. | :00:25. | |
The devastation and the heartbreak is indescribable. I do | :00:26. | :00:30. | |
not have the vocabulary to describe the feeling. | :00:31. | :00:34. | |
Watch the full interview in the next few minutes. | :00:35. | :00:37. | |
Plus, a warning that mental health patients could be put | :00:38. | :00:40. | |
at risk because NHS Trusts in England are cutting costs and | :00:41. | :00:43. | |
We'll speak to an NHS trust before 10. | :00:44. | :00:49. | |
And, forget the red carpet, award ceremonies and film premiers; | :00:50. | :00:52. | |
George Clooney is in Edinburgh opening a cafe for homeless people. | :00:53. | :00:56. | |
Hello and welcome to the programme, we're on BBC 2 and the BBC News | :00:57. | :01:10. | |
Throughout the morning we'll keep you across the latest breaking | :01:11. | :01:15. | |
A little later we'll hear claims that women and doctors have lost | :01:16. | :01:21. | |
confidence in hormone replacement therapy or HRT as a possible | :01:22. | :01:24. | |
treatment for the menopause because of the associated cancer risks. | :01:25. | :01:29. | |
If you're on HRT or don't take it because | :01:30. | :01:33. | |
Texts will be charged at the standard network rate. | :01:34. | :01:41. | |
And of course you can watch the programme online wherever you | :01:42. | :01:44. | |
are via the bbc news app or our website bbc.co.uk/victoria | :01:45. | :01:46. | |
and you can also subscribe to all our features on the news app, | :01:47. | :01:49. | |
by going to add topics and searching Victoria Derbyshire. | :01:50. | :01:53. | |
"I loved him like he was my own son; now I hate him". | :01:54. | :01:56. | |
The words of Becky Watts' father w is having to deal with the murder | :01:57. | :01:59. | |
of his 16-year-old daughter and the knowledge that her killer | :02:00. | :02:03. | |
28-year-old Nathan Matthews was found guilty of murdering her during | :02:04. | :02:11. | |
His girlfriend Shauna Hoare was convicted of manslaughter | :02:12. | :02:17. | |
In a police interview recorded in March, Nathan Matthews claimed | :02:18. | :02:23. | |
it was an accident and he hadn't meant to kill his step-sister. | :02:24. | :02:27. | |
He said he just wanted to scare her as he was upset with | :02:28. | :02:30. | |
He said she'd leave things on the floor which would trip her up. | :02:31. | :02:35. | |
We're going to play you the beginning | :02:36. | :02:40. | |
of that disturbing police interview now; it lasts just over one minute. | :02:41. | :02:49. | |
Nathan, can you give us your full name? | :02:50. | :02:51. | |
Perhaps if I just flag up for the recording what this | :02:52. | :03:01. | |
It is about the kidnap and murder of Becky Watts. | :03:02. | :03:06. | |
Obviously I don't want that to be read to someone. | :03:07. | :03:20. | |
HE SOBS I don't want to read this out in full again, Nathan, | :03:21. | :03:25. | |
but what I wanted to do was get some more detail from you about things | :03:26. | :03:29. | |
So perhaps if I could pull out some things from | :03:30. | :03:34. | |
what you have told us and ask you to expand on it, tell us a bit more. | :03:35. | :03:38. | |
I came up with the idea to scare her cos, like, to try and basically make | :03:39. | :03:47. | |
more appreciative of life, so she'd be more appreciative | :03:48. | :03:51. | |
for other people, she'd be like, grateful that she wasn't harmed or | :03:52. | :03:56. | |
Later when he appeared in court, Matthews admitted watching | :03:57. | :04:06. | |
pornography every day; he had multiple explicit images stored | :04:07. | :04:09. | |
on his computer including a video about the rape of a teenage girl. | :04:10. | :04:13. | |
Matthews' and his girlfriend's interest in sexual violence was not | :04:14. | :04:17. | |
limited to looking on the internet, it spilled over into real life even | :04:18. | :04:21. | |
In court, it emerged the pair swapped messages about | :04:22. | :04:27. | |
sexual kidnappings and saved pages on their mobile phones of girls | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
Becky Watt's father Darren and her step-mother, who is Nathan | :04:32. | :04:39. | |
Matthews mother, Anje Galsworthy have been speaking exclusively to | :04:40. | :04:41. | |
It seems so quiet without her here now. | :04:42. | :04:55. | |
If you've got a child like Becky, you're just used to noise. | :04:56. | :05:01. | |
And then when it is not there, you really notice it. | :05:02. | :05:03. | |
They were like brother and sister and they acted like it as well. | :05:04. | :05:07. | |
We was a little family unit, weren't we? | :05:08. | :05:09. | |
We were a little dysfunctional because we were all | :05:10. | :05:13. | |
from a different parent and partners and all that sort of thing. | :05:14. | :05:16. | |
We was quite a strong little unit, which is why it is such a | :05:17. | :05:21. | |
But together they raised Becky from the age of three. | :05:22. | :05:30. | |
Nathan lived nearby with his granny, but spent most weekends with them. | :05:31. | :05:33. | |
He was pretty good with her, to be honest. | :05:34. | :05:40. | |
He used to take round all the adventure playgrounds | :05:41. | :05:43. | |
for the smaller kids, with all the pits and stuff like that. | :05:44. | :05:46. | |
And ironically her first clear word, and she didn't speak until she was | :05:47. | :05:52. | |
It's really hot anyway because of the microwave. | :05:53. | :06:02. | |
13 years later, Nathan, her stepbrother, | :06:03. | :06:04. | |
Tell us about what it was like when she went missing? | :06:05. | :06:09. | |
I never believed, not in the early stages, | :06:10. | :06:13. | |
The anxiety of thinking that she was out there | :06:14. | :06:20. | |
Your imagination absolutely running riot with horrible things that could | :06:21. | :06:29. | |
I was determined I was going to get her back. | :06:30. | :06:35. | |
Becks, if you can see this, get in contact. | :06:36. | :06:38. | |
And if anyone out there knows summat, just tell us. | :06:39. | :06:40. | |
If you've got her, then put her somewhere we can find her. | :06:41. | :06:46. | |
It's like ripping your heart out and stamping all over it. | :06:47. | :06:59. | |
It was a darkness that just wouldn't leave the house, wasn't it? | :07:00. | :07:10. | |
I couldn't put my worst enemy through it. | :07:11. | :07:12. | |
Six days after Becky went missing, Darren and Angie were moved out | :07:13. | :07:16. | |
of their home as forensic teams moved in. | :07:17. | :07:20. | |
We were in a bed and breakfast out on the A38... | :07:21. | :07:25. | |
And Nathan and Shauna had been arrested. | :07:26. | :07:44. | |
And body parts had been found at the address. | :07:45. | :07:46. | |
We just wanted to die. Our whole family, everything we knew, | :07:47. | :08:01. | |
And then when they told you what had happened? | :08:02. | :08:08. | |
I sat on the bed rocking violently backwards and forwards. | :08:09. | :08:10. | |
The police weren't sure if I would do any harm to Angie. But obviously | :08:11. | :08:19. | |
I'd just been told my daughter had been murdered and butchered. | :08:20. | :08:28. | |
Her body parts found in suitcases and bags in a garden shed. | :08:29. | :08:32. | |
Yeah, well, your son, my daughter, aren't it? | :08:33. | :08:51. | |
A loving son, I would have described him as. | :08:52. | :08:58. | |
He has always been open and honest with me. | :08:59. | :09:10. | |
Nathan's girlfriend, Shauna Hoare, came into the family six years ago. | :09:11. | :09:21. | |
She always put yourself across as being very timid and mousy. | :09:22. | :09:24. | |
She always used to get her own way though. | :09:25. | :09:28. | |
To be honest, I didn't like first of all. | :09:29. | :09:31. | |
I couldn't put my finger on it, but there was something off about her. | :09:32. | :09:35. | |
I sort of became more accepting of her and relaxed a little bit. | :09:36. | :09:42. | |
And even loved her like a daughter, didn't I, in the end. | :09:43. | :09:45. | |
Two years earlier at Nathan was best man, Becky and Shauna were | :09:46. | :09:48. | |
bridesmaids, a united family, as Darren and Angie got married. | :09:49. | :09:51. | |
They say, forever, despite this incredible strain. | :09:52. | :09:55. | |
My love for her is immense, it really is. | :09:56. | :10:02. | |
I've lost a couple of members of the family because I won't turn on her. | :10:03. | :10:10. | |
If this doesn't break us up, then nothing is going to. | :10:11. | :10:17. | |
Becky was murdered here, in her bedroom. | :10:18. | :10:23. | |
I have put her bedroom back together now, so it is all I would was. | :10:24. | :10:27. | |
It wasn't always as tidy as this, I can assure you. | :10:28. | :10:29. | |
But, erm, yeah, this is how she likes it. | :10:30. | :10:32. | |
I don't really want to leave here because... | :10:33. | :10:35. | |
This is the only has she ever lived in. | :10:36. | :10:37. | |
It has now been nine months since Becky died. | :10:38. | :10:40. | |
I miss everything, even the arguments. | :10:41. | :10:47. | |
Ten o'clock every night I expect that door to come | :10:48. | :10:51. | |
and her to come through it - "Oh, cook us some tea, Dad." | :10:52. | :10:54. | |
Every night I still listen out for it. | :10:55. | :10:58. | |
We'll speak to Becky's uncle and a criminal psychologist later. Poor | :10:59. | :11:28. | |
Becky didn't deserve this, nor did her family, those wicket people | :11:29. | :11:32. | |
deserve to be put to death, from one texter. All evil is developed from | :11:33. | :11:35. | |
childhood, nobody is born with it, we are born with a clean slate, all | :11:36. | :11:42. | |
behaviour is learned, from another viewer. . Nurse Pauline Cafferkey's | :11:43. | :11:48. | |
made a full recovery from ebola. We'll bring you the latest on her | :11:49. | :11:50. | |
condition. The King's Fund health think-tank | :11:51. | :12:04. | |
has warned patients are being put at risk through cost-cutting in NHS | :12:05. | :12:08. | |
Trusts. The fund says 40% of Mental Health Trusts face budget cuts so | :12:09. | :12:10. | |
are reducing staff and hospital beds. It claims many are introducing | :12:11. | :12:15. | |
cheaper, untested self-help services. | :12:16. | :12:19. | |
The Indian Prime Minister will touchdown this morning for a | :12:20. | :12:22. | |
three-day visit to Britain. It's the first visit of an Indian Prime | :12:23. | :12:27. | |
Minister in almost a decade. During his stay, Mr Mohdi will have lunch | :12:28. | :12:30. | |
with the Queen and discuss business links with David Cameron. | :12:31. | :12:35. | |
African and EU leaders will sign a deal today designed to reduce the | :12:36. | :12:41. | |
number of migrants making ware way to Europe, a fund.3 will be | :12:42. | :12:44. | |
established to improve conditions in the African countries that many | :12:45. | :12:59. | |
young people are leaving. Pauline Cafferkey was readmitted to | :13:00. | :13:03. | |
a special unit at the Royal free in London last month after falling ill | :13:04. | :13:07. | |
with ebola for a second time. She's been transferred to a hospital in | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
Glasgow to continue her recovery. Fifa has released the names of the | :13:12. | :13:16. | |
five candidates who'll compete to replace Sepp Blatter as President of | :13:17. | :13:21. | |
world football's governing body. A Ctial figure and one-time race | :13:22. | :13:28. | |
favourite, my shell Platini did not make the list -- Michel Platini. | :13:29. | :13:36. | |
Apple have apologised to six black schoolboys who were asked to leave | :13:37. | :13:41. | |
their High Point shopping centre in Melbourne. A staff member can be | :13:42. | :13:45. | |
heard saying "security are concerned that the boys would shoplift". | :13:46. | :13:52. | |
There's been outcry. We are worried you might steal something. Why? The | :13:53. | :14:00. | |
boy who posted it on Facebook labelled it simply racism. The | :14:01. | :14:04. | |
manager has said sorry to the boys and head teacher. One has accepted | :14:05. | :14:10. | |
it and said, we are chilling, no need to take it further. | :14:11. | :14:12. | |
Let's catch up with all the sport now and join Hugh | :14:13. | :14:15. | |
and a change of tone from Russia regarding the doping allegations. | :14:16. | :14:21. | |
Yes, for the first time since the World Anti-Doping Agency made its | :14:22. | :14:28. | |
damning report into alleged widespread cheats and corruption in | :14:29. | :14:32. | |
cheating, Vladimir Putin has spoken and ordered a full investigation own | :14:33. | :14:35. | |
the claims saying the battle must be open against those accused of taking | :14:36. | :14:39. | |
part in a systematic doping programme. It is, as was say, a | :14:40. | :14:43. | |
change of tune, he's asked his Sports Minister to pay the issue the | :14:44. | :14:47. | |
greatest possible attention after he pointed the finger at the UK | :14:48. | :14:51. | |
anti-doping programme calling it even worse, so there's work to be | :14:52. | :14:54. | |
done there. The same is true of English rugby as well. Stuart | :14:55. | :14:58. | |
Lancaster stepped down as Head Coach following the poor World Cup showing | :14:59. | :15:01. | |
and now the search is on for a replacement, just about everyone's | :15:02. | :15:04. | |
having their say on who they think that person should be and whether | :15:05. | :15:08. | |
they should be English or not. It seems likely England will have a | :15:09. | :15:13. | |
first foreign Head Coach. In the sport in this country, the first | :15:14. | :15:16. | |
English Head Coach. We'll take a look at that and we have an June | :15:17. | :15:22. | |
date on Fifa and an amazing story in basketball too. All that after ten. | :15:23. | :15:27. | |
NHS trusts in England are being accused of putting mental health | :15:28. | :15:29. | |
patients at risk because of measures to cut costs. | :15:30. | :15:32. | |
Our health correspondent Nick Triggle can tell us more. | :15:33. | :15:35. | |
The report today from whom, and what does it say? | :15:36. | :15:42. | |
It is from the Kings fund, and the first thing to say is how common | :15:43. | :15:50. | |
mental health problems. One in four of us will suffer and mental health | :15:51. | :15:54. | |
condition, from depression and anxiety to more serious conditions | :15:55. | :15:57. | |
like schizophrenia. That is what the report said it is so important is | :15:58. | :16:01. | |
the NHS gets care right. But it seems it is not, the report says | :16:02. | :16:05. | |
there is widespread evidence of poor care and they are linking this to | :16:06. | :16:11. | |
cuts in services. More than four in ten trusts have seen their income | :16:12. | :16:14. | |
drop in the past year and have responded by moving to more unproven | :16:15. | :16:18. | |
treatments, cheaper ones including merging specialist teams into | :16:19. | :16:22. | |
generic ones in the community and increasingly relying on volunteers | :16:23. | :16:27. | |
and support staff instead of doctors and nurses. Meanwhile the number of | :16:28. | :16:31. | |
hospital beds has dropped. The report acknowledges this is part of | :16:32. | :16:36. | |
a wider NHS drive to move NHS care out of hospitals and into the | :16:37. | :16:39. | |
community but they say the mental health it is happening to quickly | :16:40. | :16:42. | |
and on two grand a scale. What do the Government say? | :16:43. | :16:48. | |
The Government says it is investing in mental health, the overall budget | :16:49. | :16:52. | |
increased last year to ?11.7 billion, about a 10th of the overall | :16:53. | :16:56. | |
NHS spend but it seems not all of it is getting through to the mental | :16:57. | :16:59. | |
health trusts. There could be a number of reasons for that, the | :17:00. | :17:03. | |
private and voluntary sector also get involved in providing services | :17:04. | :17:08. | |
in mental health, but it may also be the case that, with money so tight | :17:09. | :17:12. | |
in the mental health service, bosses are using mental health funds to | :17:13. | :17:17. | |
plug gaps elsewhere. Now the Government has said they want to | :17:18. | :17:23. | |
stop that, they want to see parity of esteem between mental and | :17:24. | :17:27. | |
physical health, which essentially means treating them the same, and to | :17:28. | :17:32. | |
ensure that happens they are introducing waiting time targets so | :17:33. | :17:36. | |
that people who need access to talking therapies should be seen | :17:37. | :17:41. | |
within 18 weeks, and for those experiencing their first episode of | :17:42. | :17:43. | |
psychosis they should get help within two weeks, which mirrors what | :17:44. | :17:45. | |
has been in place for years in terms of hip and the replacements and | :17:46. | :17:45. | |
cancer care. OK, thank you very much. | :17:46. | :17:48. | |
"Kate" says the NHS dealt with her dad badly on a couple | :17:49. | :17:51. | |
of occasions when he was self-harming and feeling suicidal. | :17:52. | :17:55. | |
"Kate" isn't her real name as she's asked to remain anonymous. | :17:56. | :17:58. | |
She's been speaking to our health correspondent Sophie Hutchinson. | :17:59. | :18:08. | |
The reality was, they just couldn't find in a bed. | :18:09. | :18:11. | |
They were doing everything they could but they had to just keep | :18:12. | :18:14. | |
So we had to, as far as possible, look | :18:15. | :18:18. | |
On the Friday we were told, "If you need help out of hours, | :18:19. | :18:23. | |
I know we shouldn't be living you at 5pm this Friday because of the | :18:24. | :18:27. | |
That night he was very difficult and then it reached a stage where | :18:28. | :18:32. | |
And when the ambulance came out we were taken to a cafe, | :18:33. | :18:38. | |
which was meant to be a place where people could, out of hours, go to | :18:39. | :18:41. | |
But we are talking about a man who was acutely suicidal, | :18:42. | :18:46. | |
in an ambulance, to the extent that the ambulance staff didn't feel it | :18:47. | :18:52. | |
was safe or appropriate to take him into the cafe while there wasn't | :18:53. | :18:55. | |
So my husband and my mum and my dad were outside this cafe at | :18:56. | :19:10. | |
11 o'clock at night in this ambulance, waiting to see if | :19:11. | :19:12. | |
somebody could come out and see dad. | :19:13. | :19:14. | |
Then after 50 minutes there was still nobody to talk to him, | :19:15. | :19:17. | |
and so the ambulance crew made the decision, "Right, we're going back | :19:18. | :19:20. | |
Which is not helpful for anybody involved. | :19:21. | :19:23. | |
It's very difficult for A staff to manage somebody so acutely ill. | :19:24. | :19:26. | |
And all the services knew that was not where my dad needed to be, | :19:27. | :19:29. | |
Let's talk to Kerry, who's experienced psychosis and says her | :19:30. | :19:33. | |
And Claire Murdoch, who's the chief executive of the Central | :19:34. | :19:37. | |
and North West London NHS Trust, and also chairs the Cavendish Square | :19:38. | :19:40. | |
Group which represents London's ten NHS mental health trusts. | :19:41. | :19:43. | |
Welcome to both of you. Kerry, you went to A to try to get yourself | :19:44. | :19:52. | |
admit it. What happened? At a few years ago after some difficult | :19:53. | :19:56. | |
things in my life I became really seriously ill, I was frightened, | :19:57. | :20:00. | |
very miserable, very confused and hearing voices. I knew that I was | :20:01. | :20:08. | |
just getting worse and worse, and there came a point when I didn't | :20:09. | :20:12. | |
feel I could keep myself faked so I ended up going to A and saying, I | :20:13. | :20:18. | |
can't keep myself safe, please can I be in hospital? Bessette, you can't, | :20:19. | :20:22. | |
there are no beds, and I got home. Two days later, I tried to set | :20:23. | :20:30. | |
myself on fire. Luckily it didn't work, but I was sectioned, said | :20:31. | :20:35. | |
hospital against my will, but a game I had to wait about nine hours in | :20:36. | :20:41. | |
A and there were no NHS beds in the north-east of England at the | :20:42. | :20:45. | |
time at all, so I was sent to a private hospital some distance away | :20:46. | :20:50. | |
from where I lived, and that was frightening and confusing because my | :20:51. | :20:52. | |
friends and family couldn't come and visit me as easily. Even since that | :20:53. | :21:00. | |
have happened, there have been more bed closures. Since that time there | :21:01. | :21:04. | |
have been 32 bed closures in my local area. Claire Murdoch, this | :21:05. | :21:09. | |
story is an illustration of some of the things that this independent | :21:10. | :21:13. | |
report is suggesting today. Do you recognise a pitch it is painting? | :21:14. | :21:17. | |
First of all I would like to say I really recognise -- really welcomed | :21:18. | :21:22. | |
the report because we all recognise the immense pressure services are | :21:23. | :21:27. | |
under. When that pressure manifests so that decisions over whether to | :21:28. | :21:31. | |
add amid someone or not when there is a bed available are compromised, | :21:32. | :21:35. | |
then things are very, very wrong. We should not be waiting until we have | :21:36. | :21:39. | |
two sections one, detain them against their will, when a few days | :21:40. | :21:42. | |
earlier they were happy to come and ask for help. A whole different | :21:43. | :21:46. | |
experience could have followed. There is a lot in the report that I | :21:47. | :21:51. | |
do recognise, and I guess the key thing I would like to say is, whilst | :21:52. | :21:56. | |
it is not all about money, some of our poorer funded services deliver | :21:57. | :22:02. | |
brilliant care, it is this patchwork of service delivery, the postcode | :22:03. | :22:06. | |
lottery, the variation. Isn't that decision down to the local NHS | :22:07. | :22:11. | |
Trust, in effect? What the Government is saying, tell me if you | :22:12. | :22:14. | |
buy what they say, we are distributing the money to the NHS | :22:15. | :22:19. | |
trusts, if they are not pushing that into the right areas, how can that | :22:20. | :22:24. | |
be the Government's bowled? Two things, one, yes, there is some | :22:25. | :22:30. | |
extra money available this year the Mental Health Services targeted | :22:31. | :22:32. | |
against certain services, but that is against a backdrop of year the | :22:33. | :22:35. | |
Mental Health Services targeted against certain services, but that | :22:36. | :22:40. | |
is against a backdrop to let against a real pressure against core | :22:41. | :22:44. | |
services over recent years. Second, the money does not come directly to | :22:45. | :22:50. | |
trust, it goes through several hands before it reaches trusts. Some | :22:51. | :22:53. | |
commissioners, the hand it goes through, have passed on the money in | :22:54. | :22:59. | |
total. Many have passed some of the money on. Some commissioners have | :23:00. | :23:02. | |
said they have got such pressures elsewhere, that big old ones will be | :23:03. | :23:07. | |
acute hospitals, A departments, the general culprits that we always | :23:08. | :23:11. | |
come second best to, some areas have said some of that money has to be | :23:12. | :23:16. | |
siphoned off to support bigger pressures elsewhere. We would say in | :23:17. | :23:20. | |
the Cavendish Square Group it is unacceptable. I have heard through | :23:21. | :23:25. | |
my collaborative networks nationally that there are some areas, some | :23:26. | :23:29. | |
trusts, that have not seen any of that money. What impact will that | :23:30. | :23:33. | |
have on people like Kerry? If I can come back to that point, I have been | :23:34. | :23:39. | |
doing a lot of campaigning about bed cuts and so forth in the last few | :23:40. | :23:43. | |
years. I have talked to everyone from the Deputy Prime Minister, and | :23:44. | :23:53. | |
no one seems to take responsibility for saying, this is how the money | :23:54. | :23:56. | |
should be spent. The Government announces these grand initiatives | :23:57. | :23:59. | |
but then the money goes through allsorts of acronyms, like Monitor, | :24:00. | :24:07. | |
the CCG 's... The Clinical Commissioning Groups. Their argument | :24:08. | :24:14. | |
is that local commissioning groups are much better placed to make | :24:15. | :24:17. | |
decisions about where the money should be spent locally? Except that | :24:18. | :24:22. | |
local commissioning groups are largely made of GPs, and mental | :24:23. | :24:28. | |
health groups have found they do not feel they have the expertise to do | :24:29. | :24:32. | |
that commissioning. The other thing I would say is that obviously | :24:33. | :24:36. | |
services are best locally commissioned with local providers, | :24:37. | :24:39. | |
service users, the public, and, in a sense, everybody would support that, | :24:40. | :24:43. | |
but there has to be some national standards and principles which no | :24:44. | :24:49. | |
service is free to deviate from, so whether that is access to bed in a | :24:50. | :24:54. | |
crisis, waiting times, access to psychosis services if you are young | :24:55. | :24:57. | |
and it is your first episode, so on, so Bob, there has to be some | :24:58. | :25:02. | |
principles and bottom lines. That is why the Government would say they | :25:03. | :25:05. | |
have introduced waiting targets, those are the principles and the | :25:06. | :25:10. | |
bottom lines. I agree with what you are saying about the waiting times | :25:11. | :25:15. | |
targets being a good idea, although there is not enough money to | :25:16. | :25:18. | |
implement what they need because services have been cut so | :25:19. | :25:22. | |
desperately badly in the last few years. Since 2012 we have lost about | :25:23. | :25:31. | |
40% of mental health beds. Waiting times, what sort of services do you | :25:32. | :25:36. | |
get when you get there, that will be a big problem as well. I'm | :25:37. | :25:40. | |
incredibly lucky because I had really good support with early | :25:41. | :25:43. | |
intervention and psychosis service, and it turned my life around. Now I | :25:44. | :25:48. | |
am in employment, getting married, things are at awful lot better. But | :25:49. | :25:53. | |
over about half the country those sorts of services have been cut to | :25:54. | :25:57. | |
ribbons. It doesn't even make economic sense, because they save | :25:58. | :26:03. | |
?15 for every ?1 spent, so it shouldn't be a decision that, do we | :26:04. | :26:11. | |
have these or not? Of course there should be excellent early | :26:12. | :26:14. | |
intervention services in every area. It saves lives and it changes | :26:15. | :26:20. | |
lives. This report today, is it a warning to politicians or local | :26:21. | :26:24. | |
commissioning groups, or individual NHS trusts? I think it is a warning | :26:25. | :26:31. | |
to individual NHS trusts to take responsibility for the changes they | :26:32. | :26:35. | |
are making, to make sure they really understand how they are affecting | :26:36. | :26:41. | |
people's lives. Stories like Kerry's motivate is incredibly and | :26:42. | :26:44. | |
we do believe our services change lives and save money. I think one I | :26:45. | :26:53. | |
regret about this report is that it really only largely points at | :26:54. | :26:56. | |
trusts, and of course actually there has been a 40% cut in most local | :26:57. | :27:01. | |
authority spending in recent years, and we heard earlier this week there | :27:02. | :27:05. | |
will be even greater cuts to come. Some of those services are a vital | :27:06. | :27:11. | |
component of keeping people well and helping us into been better in | :27:12. | :27:15. | |
relapse. We all have contracts that are year-to-year, I signed my | :27:16. | :27:21. | |
contract for this year in October when the year began in April, | :27:22. | :27:27. | |
because we could not agree what the funding would be. We need longer | :27:28. | :27:33. | |
term contracts, transparency of decision-making, consensus about the | :27:34. | :27:37. | |
impact there will be. I would like to say one other thing, many of the | :27:38. | :27:41. | |
new wings being implement it, recovery focused approach, it means | :27:42. | :27:48. | |
looking at the person's assets, trying to equip service users | :27:49. | :27:53. | |
together with them to better understand the power play of their | :27:54. | :27:56. | |
illness and how to look after themselves better, how to articulate | :27:57. | :28:02. | |
what works for them. That has an evidence base and it does, in all | :28:03. | :28:05. | |
other aspects of health care, the more we understand our health, the | :28:06. | :28:10. | |
more, if we have an illness, we understand what our choices are, the | :28:11. | :28:14. | |
better the outcome is. But what you cannot do is replace evidence -based | :28:15. | :28:20. | |
treatment with more self-care or peer support. It is both, it is a | :28:21. | :28:26. | |
rich mix of support needed to keep people well, get them back to help, | :28:27. | :28:32. | |
get them enjoying life, make them productive members of society. One | :28:33. | :28:36. | |
last point, the average acute hospital, if it invested more in | :28:37. | :28:41. | |
mental health for people who have complex physical conditions, could | :28:42. | :28:46. | |
save, we believe, up to ?25 million per year. So it is a saving as well | :28:47. | :28:51. | |
as the humane thing to do. Central Government is cutting the money and | :28:52. | :28:54. | |
then the local groups, like the CCGs... The Government said that | :28:55. | :29:00. | |
health service funding has been ring fenced and they have provided a | :29:01. | :29:04. | |
little bit more for Mental Health Services, but they have also asked | :29:05. | :29:08. | |
the NHS to make efficiency savings. That is not true, they stopped doing | :29:09. | :29:14. | |
the survey looking at how much money was being spent on Mental Health | :29:15. | :29:18. | |
Services a year or two ago, so now we actually don't know any more what | :29:19. | :29:21. | |
is being spent. Central Government are putting the money, local | :29:22. | :29:26. | |
commissioning groups and so on are having to make the cuts but they are | :29:27. | :29:32. | |
not responsible for having not enough money to spend in the first | :29:33. | :29:35. | |
place. No-one is taking responsibility, and meanwhile my | :29:36. | :29:39. | |
friends keep dying because they need services that are not there. These | :29:40. | :29:43. | |
are avoidable, preventable deaths of young people and they should not be | :29:44. | :29:48. | |
happening. Thank you very much both before coming on the programme. | :29:49. | :29:50. | |
The Minister responsible for mental health, Alistair Burt told us: | :29:51. | :30:17. | |
Still to come, one of the relatives of one of the victims of the Alps | :30:18. | :30:28. | |
plane crash says they still need questions answered. | :30:29. | :30:48. | |
We can talk now to Courtney Vicar, Becky Watts best friend. Thank you | :30:49. | :30:56. | |
so much for talking to us at this really, really difficult time, we | :30:57. | :30:59. | |
appreciate your time this morning. I wonder if you can tell us and the | :31:00. | :31:03. | |
audience a little bit about Becky, what was she like? | :31:04. | :31:07. | |
She was really into her music and into her fashion. She really liked | :31:08. | :31:15. | |
clothes, bought new clothes all the time and she really liked doing her | :31:16. | :31:19. | |
make-up and stuff and her hair was her most important thing really, her | :31:20. | :31:23. | |
hair. She also loved her dog as well. What kind of a friend was she | :31:24. | :31:35. | |
to you? Oh, she was my, obviously my best friend, she would be there for | :31:36. | :31:39. | |
me when I needed it. If I was sad I knew I could call her and she'd come | :31:40. | :31:43. | |
to mine or I would go to hers if I was feeling sad and the same went | :31:44. | :31:49. | |
for her. I think you last saw her a few days before her death and spoke | :31:50. | :31:56. | |
to her the night before? It was in the day before. I spoke to her on | :31:57. | :32:01. | |
the phone and she was really happy. I was texting her the night before, | :32:02. | :32:06. | |
like, and she was just happy and just her normal self-. Self-. Did | :32:07. | :32:13. | |
she talk to you about Nathan Matthews, what did she say to you | :32:14. | :32:17. | |
about her step brother? That she was kind of scared of him and that he | :32:18. | :32:22. | |
made some comments about killing her in the past, like quite a lot and I | :32:23. | :32:28. | |
think the last of the comments was last year, like at the end of last | :32:29. | :32:34. | |
year, so it was quite recent in respect of February, it was quite | :32:35. | :32:38. | |
recent then. How did you react when she revealed that to you? My opinion | :32:39. | :32:47. | |
of him kind of changed. At first I thought he was just a bit weird but | :32:48. | :32:53. | |
I didn't think he was a bit like evil or anything, but when she told | :32:54. | :32:58. | |
me he was saying these things, it made me scared for her. It just | :32:59. | :33:05. | |
didn't sit right with me what she was saying and how she felt about | :33:06. | :33:09. | |
it. She's not usually scared of much. To say she was scared of him, | :33:10. | :33:15. | |
I was like, whoa, it must be a serious fear. | :33:16. | :33:19. | |
Was she afraid to talk to other people about how she felt about him? | :33:20. | :33:28. | |
I think that she felt like people either wouldn't believe her or that | :33:29. | :33:35. | |
they would go overboard a bit and get angry with him and she really | :33:36. | :33:39. | |
didn't want to cause trouble. I think that is why she didn't say | :33:40. | :33:44. | |
anything to anybody. Did you ant to say anything or tell | :33:45. | :33:53. | |
others? It was really her choice, I didn't want to say something because | :33:54. | :33:56. | |
I didn't want her to get annoyed at me if I said something and she was | :33:57. | :34:01. | |
like "why did you say that? ! " It was for her to say, it was one of | :34:02. | :34:05. | |
those things where it's not my place to say it. Were you able to console | :34:06. | :34:18. | |
her or support her? Well, I assumed, and we both agreed | :34:19. | :34:23. | |
that because he's got a kid, it probably isn't anything serious. I | :34:24. | :34:25. | |
never thought in a million years that would happen and I thought | :34:26. | :34:31. | |
because he had a kid that he might have valued like his time with a kid | :34:32. | :34:35. | |
a bit more than to do something like this. | :34:36. | :34:37. | |
Courtney, thank you so much for talking to us this morning, I real | :34:38. | :34:42. | |
hi appreciate your time, thank you. That's OK. Courtney Bicker, Becky | :34:43. | :34:50. | |
Watts' best friends. Some comments from you: Rob says, absolutely | :34:51. | :34:55. | |
heart-breaking account earlier on your programme from the parents of | :34:56. | :35:00. | |
Becky watts. Paul says, heartbreaking, I don't understand | :35:01. | :35:04. | |
the world and Lawrence says, God rest Becky and help ease the pain of | :35:05. | :35:18. | |
the parents. There's been a bit of grumbling about the Chancellor | :35:19. | :35:21. | |
George Osborne's spending cuts from his own MPs. Little did he expect | :35:22. | :35:24. | |
the Prime Minister to be one of them Norman Smith is with | :35:25. | :35:40. | |
us now. Not usual for a Prime Minister to | :35:41. | :35:47. | |
write to his county council to protest at plans for roughly around | :35:48. | :35:53. | |
?50 million worth of cuts. The cuts will mean, it's thought, maybe cuts | :35:54. | :35:58. | |
to bus services, possibly cuts to day care centres for the eldererly, | :35:59. | :36:03. | |
possibly cuts to library services. So Mr Cameron's penned a letter to | :36:04. | :36:08. | |
his council to say, hang on a second, what are you doing, let's | :36:09. | :36:13. | |
take a lack at some of what he says. He says, I was disappointed at the | :36:14. | :36:18. | |
long list of suggestions to make significant cuts to frontline | :36:19. | :36:22. | |
services. Then he goes on, sort of urging them not to go down this | :36:23. | :36:27. | |
road, saying: I hope the county will move cautiously in setting out its | :36:28. | :36:30. | |
budget plans. And, as a sort of final, I don't | :36:31. | :36:34. | |
know whether it's meant to be helpful or put the squeeze a bit on | :36:35. | :36:40. | |
the council, he says; I would be happy to initiate further dialogue | :36:41. | :36:44. | |
with asth advisers in the Number 10 policy unit. That prompted a reply | :36:45. | :36:51. | |
from the council leader, which I've got here, a six-page reply. He's | :36:52. | :36:56. | |
gone through all Mr Cameron's complaints point-by-point trying to | :36:57. | :36:59. | |
rebut them but starts with a zinger when he says, to the council leader, | :37:00. | :37:05. | |
to D Cameron, "I along with many councillors worked hard to assist | :37:06. | :37:07. | |
you in achieving a Conservative majority. " That is his opening | :37:08. | :37:13. | |
line. He says "I cannot accept your description of a drop in funding of | :37:14. | :37:18. | |
?72 million as a slight fall" he signs off "I hope that clarifies our | :37:19. | :37:25. | |
position". So I take it he's not hugely amused by the PM's | :37:26. | :37:29. | |
intervention. When asked about relations between the two last week | :37:30. | :37:33. | |
he was saying, no, we get on timeth fine. Have alike at this. It's like | :37:34. | :37:37. | |
all relationships. Sometimes off bits of tension, it's always going | :37:38. | :37:41. | |
to be difficult at some stage, yesterday I was at Number 10 and we | :37:42. | :37:45. | |
had a civil conversation. There's a good relationship there, but like | :37:46. | :37:48. | |
all relationships, sometimes a bit of tension. | :37:49. | :37:53. | |
Not surprisingly, Vic, as you can imagine, MPs are all saying, hang on | :37:54. | :37:58. | |
a second, this is hypocrisy, it's David Cameron's Government who're | :37:59. | :38:01. | |
imposing this cut, it's a bit rich for him to be complaining. That's | :38:02. | :38:05. | |
been the line being pushed by the Labour Party. This was one of the | :38:06. | :38:16. | |
spokesman this morning. Council leaders are finding health cuts. It | :38:17. | :38:19. | |
seems extraordinary the Prime Minister didn't appreciate the scale | :38:20. | :38:22. | |
of the cuts that hit his own council. When you move into the | :38:23. | :38:27. | |
Metropolitan areas, the City and northern councils, because of the | :38:28. | :38:30. | |
way the funding formula works, they are happy to find even deeper cuts. | :38:31. | :38:35. | |
This has gone in another direction all together. Labour maybe are | :38:36. | :38:39. | |
trying to milk it. They have write tonne the Cabinet Secretary to | :38:40. | :38:42. | |
complain about Mr Cameron's behaviour and how they say it's a | :38:43. | :38:46. | |
breach of rules around the Ministerial Code of Conduct. Their | :38:47. | :38:51. | |
argument being that by inviting the council boss into Number 10 to have | :38:52. | :38:56. | |
a chat with the Number Ten policy union, Mr Cameron is blurring the | :38:57. | :39:00. | |
lines between his Prime Ministerial powers and his job as a local MP. I | :39:01. | :39:08. | |
wonder if he'll have to extend that invitation to all council leaders | :39:09. | :39:11. | |
then to discuss how cuts may be rolled out? I think the short answer | :39:12. | :39:17. | |
is no, but what I think about this is, it's kind of a double edged | :39:18. | :39:23. | |
sword to have the PM in your constituency because at one level | :39:24. | :39:26. | |
it's great. If you are lobbying for something and want it done, you can | :39:27. | :39:31. | |
get the PM on your side, that is a huge boost to your prospects of | :39:32. | :39:34. | |
convincing the Treasury to stump up the cash. However, if the PM is not | :39:35. | :39:40. | |
happy about what you are doing, it's a major pain in thederier because | :39:41. | :39:43. | |
you have the Downing Street machine saying, just think twice about that, | :39:44. | :39:47. | |
so I guess it's a double edged sword having Mr Cameron as one of your | :39:48. | :39:49. | |
constituents. Thank you very much. | :39:50. | :39:52. | |
He's one of the most famous men on the planet, but this morning George | :39:53. | :39:58. | |
Clooney will swap the film set for a cafe for homeless people in Glasgow. | :39:59. | :40:01. | |
Here is Carol. I haven't seen you since your Strictly journey was | :40:02. | :40:14. | |
brought to a close. How was it? Brilliant. Such good fun. To start | :40:15. | :40:18. | |
with I found it hard then grew to love it. I think I went as far as I | :40:19. | :40:23. | |
could but do it, it's amazing! Was there anything you learnt about | :40:24. | :40:27. | |
yourself that you didn't know before you went through all of that? Yes, I | :40:28. | :40:31. | |
am brave than I thought I was. Really, that's fantastic! Took me so | :40:32. | :40:36. | |
out of my comfort zone, every single Saturday I was dying of nerves but | :40:37. | :40:39. | |
you had to go for it, push yourself in there and get on with it, there | :40:40. | :40:45. | |
was no choice. Week one I did get stage fright, I was overwhelmed by | :40:46. | :40:48. | |
it and if I could have run away from that dance floor, I would have been | :40:49. | :40:52. | |
in the next taxi, but you had to stay and go through with it. You | :40:53. | :40:55. | |
could have done a runner, that would have been a story! Was it a bird, | :40:56. | :41:01. | |
was it a plane, no it was corkwood. How is it looking weather-wise? | :41:02. | :41:07. | |
It's a bit lively today for some. We have got Storm Abigail approaching. | :41:08. | :41:11. | |
Tonight is when we'll feel the effects of it in north and west | :41:12. | :41:17. | |
Scotland where we could have gusts of up to 90mph. They could lead to | :41:18. | :41:22. | |
travel disrun Australian and power cuts. Abigail is a deep area of low | :41:23. | :41:29. | |
pressure. Look at the isobars, man! Even I know that's windy. I am so | :41:30. | :41:33. | |
impressed but you are absolutely right. | :41:34. | :41:36. | |
In England an Wales, it's going to be windy tonight and also first | :41:37. | :41:40. | |
thing tomorrow. This little front here is going to cross to bring some | :41:41. | :41:43. | |
rain again tonight and tomorrow morning. But the main thrust of the | :41:44. | :41:47. | |
action is going to be across the north and west of Scotland where we | :41:48. | :41:50. | |
have the tightest squeeze. That is where we'll have the gusts later | :41:51. | :41:56. | |
this evening and tonight over 80 or 90mph. A lot to get in, so I'll | :41:57. | :42:01. | |
carry on but it's great to see you. So good to have you back on our | :42:02. | :42:05. | |
programme, never mind Strictly! See you later. | :42:06. | :42:10. | |
En Today we have a quiet start to the day. There is some fog around | :42:11. | :42:17. | |
which will lift. We have got some spots of rain coming in across from | :42:18. | :42:20. | |
southern counties in across the south-west and Wales. Through the | :42:21. | :42:24. | |
morning, the rain will gather across Northern Ireland, some will be heavy | :42:25. | :42:27. | |
and the wind will strengthen. You can see the arrows are on, looking | :42:28. | :42:32. | |
at gusts in the west of about 50-55mph. Push across central and | :42:33. | :42:36. | |
eastern parts, the wind will be starting to pick up but it will be | :42:37. | :42:42. | |
largely dry for much of the day. Looking at variable amounts of | :42:43. | :42:45. | |
cloud, bright and sunny spells as well but patchy rain coming in | :42:46. | :42:49. | |
across the south coast. We'll see some of that getting into Wales. We | :42:50. | :42:57. | |
saw the wind arrows across the Irish Sea, close to the Irish Sea or areas | :42:58. | :43:03. | |
adjacent will mean gusts of up to 55mph. The rain advances in Northern | :43:04. | :43:08. | |
Ireland. Showers and winds inland of 15mph, maybe a little more. The wind | :43:09. | :43:19. | |
will be the main feature, particularly through the evening and | :43:20. | :43:26. | |
tonight. The main areas to have the strong gusts are Northern Isles and | :43:27. | :43:30. | |
the Outer Hebrides. The Met Office has issued amber weather warnings | :43:31. | :43:36. | |
which means be prepared, it could lead to some disruption. We'll see | :43:37. | :43:41. | |
some snow on the mountain tops, lying at about 400 metres at lower | :43:42. | :43:49. | |
levels. Do remember, as we head on through | :43:50. | :43:53. | |
to tomorrow, this colder air pushes across the whole of the UK, so | :43:54. | :43:58. | |
tomorrow you'll notice a real difference in the feel of the | :43:59. | :44:01. | |
weather. It will feel much colder. Tomorrow too still a windy start to | :44:02. | :44:05. | |
the day. The winds only very slowly abating. There'll be a lot of | :44:06. | :44:09. | |
showers around, some will be heavy and thundery with some hail thrown | :44:10. | :44:12. | |
in there for good measure and temperature-wise, we are looking at | :44:13. | :44:15. | |
values between about six and 12. When you add on the elements, it | :44:16. | :44:20. | |
will feel much colder, one in Aberdeen is how it will feel. More | :44:21. | :44:23. | |
like eight in London. So a cold feel. That's not unusual | :44:24. | :44:28. | |
for this stage in November but it's a real change compared to what we | :44:29. | :44:32. | |
have been used to. From Friday into Saturday, we have got the remnants | :44:33. | :44:44. | |
of Hurricane Kate coming our way. Over the weekend, we could see | :44:45. | :44:49. | |
exceptional amounts of rainfall, particular aacross north-west | :44:50. | :44:51. | |
England and north-west Wales and I'll keep you posted about that | :44:52. | :44:52. | |
tomorrow. Hello, it's Thursday, | :44:53. | :44:58. | |
it's just after 10am. I'm Victoria Derbyshire, welcome to | :44:59. | :45:00. | |
the programme if you've just joined Murdered by her step-brother who | :45:01. | :45:03. | |
acted out sick fantasies after watching online pornography - Becky | :45:04. | :45:09. | |
Watts was just 16 when she was killed by the man she grew up with. | :45:10. | :45:12. | |
One of her best friends tells us she It didn't sit right with me what she | :45:13. | :45:21. | |
said about how she felt about him. She was scared and she's not usually | :45:22. | :45:27. | |
scared of much. To say she was scared of him, I was like, it must | :45:28. | :45:28. | |
be a serious fear. Also coming up: We'll be discussing | :45:29. | :45:33. | |
the best ways to cope with the menopause as a new | :45:34. | :45:36. | |
report says women and doctors have "lost confidence" | :45:37. | :45:39. | |
in hormone replacement therapy. George Clooney is in Edinburgh | :45:40. | :45:52. | |
opening a cafe for homeless people and we'll be live there later on. | :45:53. | :46:03. | |
Standards of care for patients with mental illness in England could be | :46:04. | :46:07. | |
at risk from cost-cutting, according to a report from | :46:08. | :46:10. | |
The King's Fund is warning that 40% of mental health trusts are | :46:11. | :46:13. | |
facing budget cuts, so are reducing staff and hospital beds. | :46:14. | :46:17. | |
It also claims that many are introducing cheaper, | :46:18. | :46:20. | |
No-one is really taking responsibility, and meanwhile my | :46:21. | :46:31. | |
friends keep dying because they need services that are not there, and | :46:32. | :46:36. | |
these are avoidable, preventable deaths of young people, and they | :46:37. | :46:38. | |
should not be happening. Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi | :46:39. | :46:43. | |
will touch down this morning It's the first visit of an Indian | :46:44. | :46:45. | |
Prime Minister in almost a decade. Later he will make an address in | :46:46. | :46:53. | |
parliament and there will be a fly-past from the red arrows. But he | :46:54. | :46:57. | |
is a controversial figure, accused by opponents of having an | :46:58. | :46:58. | |
authoritarian agenda. African and EU leaders will sign | :46:59. | :47:00. | |
a deal today that's designed to reduce the number of migrants making | :47:01. | :47:03. | |
their way to Europe. In the past hour, they have approved | :47:04. | :47:17. | |
a fund of ?1.3 billion to try to stop young people from leaving. | :47:18. | :47:21. | |
A nurse who contracted Ebola while working in Sierra Leone has | :47:22. | :47:23. | |
been declared free of the virus and taken out of isolation. | :47:24. | :47:26. | |
Pauline Cafferkey was readmitted to the specialist unit at the | :47:27. | :47:28. | |
Royal Free in London last month after falling | :47:29. | :47:30. | |
She's now been transferred to a hospital in Glasgow to continue | :47:31. | :47:34. | |
Fifa has released the names of the five candidates who will | :47:35. | :47:37. | |
compete to replace Sepp Blatter as the president | :47:38. | :47:39. | |
Controversial figure and one-time race favourite Michel Platini did | :47:40. | :47:44. | |
not make the list, while Musa Hassan Bility was also not included. | :47:45. | :47:51. | |
Apple has apologised to six black schoolboys who were asked to leave | :47:52. | :47:54. | |
Footage of the incident in Melbourne | :47:55. | :48:04. | |
sparked a social media outcry. | :48:05. | :48:06. | |
A staff member can be heard saying security are concerned that | :48:07. | :48:08. | |
We're worried about your present in our store, we are worried you might | :48:09. | :48:16. | |
steal something. Why would we steal something?! End of discussion... | :48:17. | :48:21. | |
The boy who posted it on Facebook labelled it 'simply racism'. | :48:22. | :48:24. | |
The store manager has now said sorry to the boys and their headteacher. | :48:25. | :48:27. | |
One of the boys involved has accepted the apology. | :48:28. | :48:32. | |
Let's catch up with all the sport now - | :48:33. | :48:37. | |
Russian President Vladimir Putin says the country must carry out | :48:38. | :48:46. | |
its own inquiry into the World Anti-Doping Agency's allegations of | :48:47. | :48:49. | |
Speaking for the first time since the publication of Wada's | :48:50. | :48:54. | |
strong condemnation, Vladimir Putin ordered co-operation with the | :48:55. | :48:56. | |
TRANSLATION: It is necessary to hold our own internal investigation and | :48:57. | :49:05. | |
provide maximum open, and I would like to stress this, open | :49:06. | :49:10. | |
professional cooperation with international anti-doping agencies. | :49:11. | :49:13. | |
I agree this is not only a Russian problem but if our foreign | :49:14. | :49:15. | |
colleagues have questions about them, they have to be answered, too, | :49:16. | :49:20. | |
and that has to be done in open, professional and conscientious | :49:21. | :49:22. | |
cooperation with our colleagues. After Stuart Lancaster stepped | :49:23. | :49:25. | |
down as the head coach of England's Rugby Union side, all thoughts have | :49:26. | :49:27. | |
immediately been directed towards his successor and the person who'll | :49:28. | :49:30. | |
ultimately be responsible for breathing new life into a team | :49:31. | :49:32. | |
which did nothing but disappoint Our rugby reporter Chris | :49:33. | :49:35. | |
Jones joins me now. A difficult time for England and | :49:36. | :49:48. | |
Stuart Lancaster but who are the candidates to replace him? | :49:49. | :49:53. | |
Two things that are no object are a nationality and money. The RFU and | :49:54. | :49:57. | |
chief executive Ian Ritchie have made it clear they will scour the | :49:58. | :50:02. | |
world for a global big hitter, someone steeped in international | :50:03. | :50:05. | |
rugby experience. It is unlikely it will be an Englishman because the | :50:06. | :50:09. | |
directors of rugby at the premiership clubs do not have that | :50:10. | :50:12. | |
international experience, so we are looking at names like Jake White, | :50:13. | :50:17. | |
who won the 2007 World Cup in South Africa. He would rip the RFU's arm | :50:18. | :50:23. | |
off if they offered the job. Eddie Jones did wonders with Japan at the | :50:24. | :50:28. | |
recent World Cup, he has huge experience going back to his with | :50:29. | :50:34. | |
Australia. Michael Jack has transformed Australian rugby over | :50:35. | :50:37. | |
the last year, but could he be prised away from that job and back | :50:38. | :50:41. | |
to the Northern is the? Wayne Smith has huge backing but has confirmed | :50:42. | :50:46. | |
to the BBC he wants to take a sabbatical, could the RFU changed | :50:47. | :50:50. | |
his mind or bring him in further down the line? Joe Schmidt, Warren | :50:51. | :50:57. | |
Gatland, a huge number of candidates because the RFU have said no money | :50:58. | :51:01. | |
and nationality is an object for this, which means on one hand | :51:02. | :51:05. | |
everyone is a candidate, and on the other hand no-one is because the | :51:06. | :51:09. | |
best, big hitting names are in jobs at the moment. | :51:10. | :51:11. | |
Sir Clive Woodward, the World Cup would encourage, thinks the RFU and | :51:12. | :51:15. | |
all of rugby needs a structural change. Is this about more than the | :51:16. | :51:19. | |
coach? It is a good point, he is pointing | :51:20. | :51:24. | |
the finger at the RFU chief executive Ian. He was about who | :51:25. | :51:28. | |
appointed Ian Lancaster in the first place, he gave him increased power | :51:29. | :51:32. | |
was over the English game, a new contract grew to 2019 and beyond, | :51:33. | :51:37. | |
and now Ritchie is the man to lead the recruitment process all over | :51:38. | :51:43. | |
again, so apply the Woodward saying that why should he get another | :51:44. | :51:47. | |
chance? He says there should be a bigger between the Chief Executive | :51:48. | :51:50. | |
and head coach, a performance director, someone for the head coach | :51:51. | :51:55. | |
to lean on and confide in. We should have a caveat saying that Sir Clive | :51:56. | :51:58. | |
Woodward feels he is the man for the job since he is using his Daily Mail | :51:59. | :52:02. | |
column as a way of putting in his job application. It does not mean | :52:03. | :52:06. | |
they are not valid points, but the RFU would argue that the head coach | :52:07. | :52:10. | |
needs to have total authority and should not have the answer to | :52:11. | :52:13. | |
anyone. It will be fascinating to see how things go over the next few | :52:14. | :52:15. | |
weeks. OK, thanks for joining us. | :52:16. | :52:19. | |
Now to a truly inspiring story - Serbian basketball player | :52:20. | :52:21. | |
Natasha Kovacevic has returned to the professional game two years | :52:22. | :52:27. | |
after losing her leg in a car accident. | :52:28. | :52:33. | |
Kovacevic was seen as one of her country's most promising | :52:34. | :52:35. | |
players when the accident happened in September 2013. | :52:36. | :52:42. | |
Now, with the aid of prosthesis, she is believed to be the first | :52:43. | :52:45. | |
disabled European basketball player to play in a professional team. | :52:46. | :52:47. | |
She scored five points for her new side Red Star Belgrade last night. | :52:48. | :52:50. | |
That is all the sport for now, I will have a recap of the headlines | :52:51. | :52:53. | |
at about 10:30am. Hello, thank you | :52:54. | :52:54. | |
for joining us this morning. Welcome to the programme | :52:55. | :52:56. | |
if you've just joined us, we're on BBC Two and the BBC News | :52:57. | :52:58. | |
Channel until 11am this morning. Your contributions to this programme | :52:59. | :53:01. | |
and your expertise really is key. We will talk about hormone | :53:02. | :53:11. | |
replacement therapy later, so if you have experienced that, maybe do did | :53:12. | :53:14. | |
not take it because of the associated cancer risks, which is | :53:15. | :53:17. | |
why it is in the news again today, then let me know. | :53:18. | :53:24. | |
And of course you can watch the programme online wherever you | :53:25. | :53:26. | |
are via the BBC News app or our website, bbc.co.uk/victoria, | :53:27. | :53:29. | |
and you can also subscribe to all our features on the news app | :53:30. | :53:32. | |
by going to 'add topics' and searching 'Victoria Derbyshire'. | :53:33. | :53:34. | |
We've been talking this morning about the murder of Becky Watts | :53:35. | :53:37. | |
and what motivated her stepbrother and his girlfriend to kill | :53:38. | :53:39. | |
Becky's best friend has told us that the teenager was scared of | :53:40. | :53:48. | |
Nathan Matthews, but she didn't want to tell anyone about her fears. | :53:49. | :53:57. | |
Yesterday, Matthews was found guilty of murdering Becky Watts during | :53:58. | :54:00. | |
His girlfriend Shauna Hoare was convicted of manslaughter | :54:01. | :54:03. | |
In a police interview recorded in March, Nathan Matthews claimed | :54:04. | :54:07. | |
it was an accident and he hadn't meant to kill his step-sister. | :54:08. | :54:11. | |
He said he just wanted to scare her, as he was upset with how she was | :54:12. | :54:18. | |
He said she'd leave things on the floor which would trip her up. | :54:19. | :54:25. | |
We're going to play you the beginning of that disturbing | :54:26. | :54:27. | |
Nathan, can you give us your full name? | :54:28. | :54:30. | |
Perhaps if I just flag up for the recording what this | :54:31. | :54:41. | |
It is about the kidnap and murder of Becky Watts. | :54:42. | :54:45. | |
Obviously I don't want that to be read to someone. | :54:46. | :54:50. | |
I don't want to read this out in full again, Nathan, | :54:51. | :55:01. | |
but what I wanted to do was get some more detail from you about things | :55:02. | :55:05. | |
Later, when he appeared in court, it came out that he had been watching | :55:06. | :55:52. | |
pornography. Becky Watts' father and Nathan Bodman, perhaps been speaking | :55:53. | :55:58. | |
to the BBC. We could not take it in, we could | :55:59. | :56:02. | |
not believe it. Body parts had been found at the address. We just wanted | :56:03. | :56:10. | |
to die. Our whole family, everything we knew had been ripped away from | :56:11. | :56:22. | |
us. And when they told you what had happened? I was sitting on the bed, | :56:23. | :56:27. | |
rocking violently backwards and forwards, screaming that I wanted to | :56:28. | :56:30. | |
kill him. The police were not sure if I would do any harm to Angie, but | :56:31. | :56:35. | |
they don't know how strong our relationship is. I had just been | :56:36. | :56:38. | |
told that might daughter had been murdered, butchered. Her body parts | :56:39. | :56:43. | |
found in suitcases and bags in a garden shed. I was just devastated. | :56:44. | :56:54. | |
Anje just went into shock. You could see it. I just couldn't accept it. | :56:55. | :57:06. | |
Your son, my daughter, wasn't it? Tell us about Nathan? A loving son, | :57:07. | :57:13. | |
I would have described him as. He has never lie to me. Always been | :57:14. | :57:19. | |
open and honest with me. I love to Mikey was my own son. Don't now, I | :57:20. | :57:27. | |
hate him. -- I loved him like he was my own son. Nathan's girlfriend | :57:28. | :57:31. | |
Shauna Hoare came to the family six years ago. She always put us up | :57:32. | :57:35. | |
across as timid and Mel C. She always used to get her own way, | :57:36. | :57:42. | |
though. I didn't like, personally. Couldn't put my finger on it but | :57:43. | :57:46. | |
there was something off about her, never really believed in Herbert | :57:47. | :57:49. | |
became more accepting of her and relaxed a little bit, even loved her | :57:50. | :57:55. | |
like a daughter, didn't I, in the end? Two years earlier Nathan was | :57:56. | :58:00. | |
best man, Becky and Sean were bridesmaids, a united family as | :58:01. | :58:04. | |
Darren and Angie got married. They say the rubble, despite this | :58:05. | :58:08. | |
incredible strain. My love for her is immense, it really is, | :58:09. | :58:15. | |
unwavering. I have lost a couple of them as a family because I won't | :58:16. | :58:22. | |
turn on her. I her, never. If this doesn't break is up, nothing will -- | :58:23. | :58:30. | |
I won't desert her, never. Becky was murdered here, in her bedroom. I | :58:31. | :58:34. | |
have put her bedroom back of it was. It was never usually as tidy as | :58:35. | :58:39. | |
this, I assure you, but this is how she likes it. I don't really want to | :58:40. | :58:44. | |
leave here, because Becky lived here. This is the only how she ever | :58:45. | :58:49. | |
lived in. It has now been nine months since Becky died. I just miss | :58:50. | :58:56. | |
her, I was she was still here. I live everything, even the | :58:57. | :59:01. | |
arguments. Yes. 10pm every night I expect the door to go, how to come | :59:02. | :59:08. | |
through, cook us some tea, dad! But it never does. Every night I still | :59:09. | :59:13. | |
look out, I listen out for her. It's ridiculous, she has been gone months | :59:14. | :59:17. | |
now. And yet I still listen out for it. | :59:18. | :59:22. | |
Let's talk about Doctor John Ed Barlow, a criminologist at | :59:23. | :59:25. | |
Birmingham University, and in a moment we will speak to Liz | :59:26. | :59:30. | |
Longhurst whose daughter, Jane, was murdered by a man obsessed with | :59:31. | :59:33. | |
violent pornography. He was jailed for life in 2004. Doctor Bala, how | :59:34. | :59:40. | |
would you describe the relationship as you know it between Shauna Hoare | :59:41. | :59:45. | |
and Nathan Matthews? When we have come offending partnerships or | :59:46. | :59:49. | |
relationships like Sean and Nathan, it is often the case that people | :59:50. | :59:53. | |
draw upon notions such as evil or what is known as a map and a shared | :59:54. | :00:00. | |
by two, but the relationship between Shauna and Nathan was more | :00:01. | :00:06. | |
complicated. Shauna suggested during the testimony and trial that she | :00:07. | :00:09. | |
experienced violence and control at the hands of make them throughout | :00:10. | :00:12. | |
the relationship and talked extensively about this during the | :00:13. | :00:16. | |
trial. Whilst this shouldn't be used as a technique to diminish her | :00:17. | :00:19. | |
responsibility or to remove her sense of choice, to gain a more | :00:20. | :00:25. | |
nuanced understanding of her co-offending relationship and her | :00:26. | :00:28. | |
personal relationship with Nathan, we need to look at the whole | :00:29. | :00:31. | |
relationship and how that may have influenced her decision to offend. | :00:32. | :00:37. | |
She may have claimed those things during the trial but the police said | :00:38. | :00:40. | |
yesterday she was calculate it, she was cold-blooded? | :00:41. | :00:45. | |
Undoubtedly in these cases it's very difficult to say what is and what | :00:46. | :00:52. | |
isn't the truth. Within this type of relationship, particularly if | :00:53. | :00:54. | |
characterised by violence and control throughout the whole | :00:55. | :00:58. | |
relationship, that needs to be the focus, rather than explicitly | :00:59. | :01:01. | |
focussing on her role in the offending, it's also what led to | :01:02. | :01:05. | |
that. In these co-offending relationships where there is | :01:06. | :01:09. | |
violence or control, that should be considered as a potential | :01:10. | :01:13. | |
influencing factor. You will know that Becky watts' father suggested | :01:14. | :01:18. | |
that Hoares and Matthews could have been the next Rose and Fred West | :01:19. | :01:22. | |
west, what do you think about that? There is a tendency within these | :01:23. | :01:30. | |
co-offending offences to draw upon coexisting examples such as Rose and | :01:31. | :01:36. | |
Fred West west or Myra Hindley and on Brady. These went on for a time | :01:37. | :01:42. | |
though, and I would argue that these were not | :01:43. | :01:43. | |
though, and I would argue that these were not criminal master minds It | :01:44. | :01:46. | |
was more a case of power and control, particularly on the part of | :01:47. | :01:50. | |
Nathan. OK, I'll come back to you in a moment, I want to talk to Liz | :01:51. | :01:59. | |
Longhurst whose daughter was murdered by a man obsessed with | :02:00. | :02:04. | |
online pornography. I wonder if you believe your daughter's death was | :02:05. | :02:08. | |
preventible? Well, I think it probably was knowing what we know | :02:09. | :02:14. | |
now but I think then I didn't. Graham Coutts was such a... He was | :02:15. | :02:26. | |
extremely mazible. Fortunately I'm glad to say I never met him or his | :02:27. | :02:32. | |
partner. His partner was expecting their twins so it's horrible, | :02:33. | :02:39. | |
complete hi horrible. And you discovered later that he was | :02:40. | :02:44. | |
obsessed with violent pornography, he had been viewing it online. Do | :02:45. | :02:50. | |
you think that is relevant? Absolutely it is. At that time, one | :02:51. | :03:01. | |
of Reading's MPs, Martin Salter, he took the lead on this and used me as | :03:02. | :03:05. | |
a kind of figurehead - I don't think I had very much to do with the | :03:06. | :03:11. | |
formation of the law - but I absolutely agreed with it that it | :03:12. | :03:15. | |
should go ahead. Of course, it did, but the trouble is, the law's not | :03:16. | :03:20. | |
that been used, that particular law, very much. A law that bans the | :03:21. | :03:26. | |
ownership of extreme pornography? Indeed. But hasn't been used? It has | :03:27. | :03:33. | |
but hardly at all. I think I can only think of probably a handful of | :03:34. | :03:39. | |
occasions when it's been used. Do you think that search engines should | :03:40. | :03:43. | |
take responsibility for trying to block that kind of material? Well, I | :03:44. | :03:46. | |
certainly think they should but I don't think they do. I don't know | :03:47. | :03:52. | |
what you think, Victoria. Well, they don't at the moment and always push | :03:53. | :03:55. | |
back on that one and there's the argument about the global scale of | :03:56. | :03:59. | |
it, how could you possibly kind of police that or enforce it. I think | :04:00. | :04:04. | |
the thing is, we are all very sociable creatures aren't we, and so | :04:05. | :04:15. | |
therefore we tend to sort of be friends with people who think as we | :04:16. | :04:21. | |
do and I think that they should just take far more responsibility than | :04:22. | :04:24. | |
they do. And Dr Barlow, as a criminologist, | :04:25. | :04:29. | |
can I ask you about your views, the evidence that you've looked at, of | :04:30. | :04:35. | |
the link between viewing violent pornography and then actually | :04:36. | :04:38. | |
carrying that out in reality? Yes, with these kind of things, | :04:39. | :04:43. | |
particularly thinking about violent pornography, whilst this would have | :04:44. | :04:46. | |
been an influencing factor, it's very, very difficult to make a | :04:47. | :04:51. | |
causing effect of relationships. In the case of Nathan, I believe it was | :04:52. | :04:55. | |
much more about him wanting power and control, both within the context | :04:56. | :04:59. | |
of offending but also within other relationships in his life as well. I | :05:00. | :05:05. | |
think that perhaps came hand in hand with the sexual fantasy that would | :05:06. | :05:08. | |
have come from the violent pornography. Do you mean power and | :05:09. | :05:12. | |
control over Becky watts in particular or anybody whom he | :05:13. | :05:15. | |
happened to alight upon? I think particularly with Becky. He talked | :05:16. | :05:20. | |
in detail during the trial but also before in the text message exchanges | :05:21. | :05:27. | |
we saw about his hate for Becky and that he obviously investigate | :05:28. | :05:33. | |
envious and jealous of Becky, particularly with her relationship | :05:34. | :05:36. | |
with other members of the family. It was power over Becky but also about | :05:37. | :05:41. | |
other relationships generally within her family as well. In terms of your | :05:42. | :05:47. | |
experience as a criminologist, where does this case fit, if I can put it | :05:48. | :05:52. | |
like that? Actually, this kind of case is very rare. This is what | :05:53. | :05:59. | |
criminologists called siblicide, where the perpetrator is the step or | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
full brother or sister of the victim. This is very rare in | :06:04. | :06:09. | |
reality, particularly on this level, this horrific and heinous crime that | :06:10. | :06:12. | |
was committed within the context of Becky watts. So actually, even | :06:13. | :06:17. | |
though Becky was in many ways the typical victim as a young female, | :06:18. | :06:22. | |
the kind of crime that Nathan committed and the murder, the extent | :06:23. | :06:27. | |
of the murder he committed, was much more common of an intimate partner | :06:28. | :06:33. | |
relationship, rather than a sibling relationship. Thank you both very | :06:34. | :06:38. | |
much for coming on the programme. Very nice to meet you. | :06:39. | :06:45. | |
Nice to have met you and thank you. Let's talk about the migrant crisis. | :06:46. | :06:50. | |
Still to come before 11; African and EU leaders have signed a deal | :06:51. | :06:53. | |
designed to reduce the number of migrants making their way to Europe. | :06:54. | :06:56. | |
?1.3 billion will be used to improve conditions in the African countries | :06:57. | :06:59. | |
Our correspondent Gavin Lee is in Malta where the leaders are meeting. | :07:00. | :07:04. | |
What have they been discussing this morning and what have they decided? | :07:05. | :07:12. | |
Huge meeting, Victoria, 60 world leaders, 25 from Europe, 35 from | :07:13. | :07:18. | |
Africa, the European leaders here at the Mediterranean conference centre | :07:19. | :07:22. | |
in this scenic resort in the capital here. They are lined up one by one | :07:23. | :07:27. | |
to sign a piece of paper which is effectively the centrepiece of this | :07:28. | :07:32. | |
summit, a fund for African Nations of money, significant amount from | :07:33. | :07:36. | |
the European Commission, ?1.8 billion euros. Jean-Claude Juncker | :07:37. | :07:41. | |
asked in the past few days European nations to pledge what they could in | :07:42. | :07:44. | |
return for African countries trying to stem the flow of their citizens | :07:45. | :07:48. | |
facing the journey of land and sea, risking their lives to get to | :07:49. | :07:52. | |
Europe. We have had today an announcement from 25 European | :07:53. | :07:55. | |
countries, including Britain 3 million euros offered. It's reached | :07:56. | :08:00. | |
half the target, some decided, Greece, Cyprus, Croatia, not to get | :08:01. | :08:03. | |
involved at all, they were distrustful of where the money may | :08:04. | :08:06. | |
go, but it's interesting from the point of view of the money being | :08:07. | :08:09. | |
raised, there is a belief that Africa can actually do something | :08:10. | :08:13. | |
about it collectively. I should give you a sense of what's being asked in | :08:14. | :08:18. | |
return from African Nations. This is the second day of talks and there is | :08:19. | :08:22. | |
a big emphasis from African countries, forgot just to talk hard | :08:23. | :08:26. | |
cash but also to increase legal migration routes. I was talking to | :08:27. | :08:32. | |
Senegalese governments in the past two days and they have said what | :08:33. | :08:36. | |
about trading deals, education, chances for students, nurses, | :08:37. | :08:40. | |
trained researchers. So that will be part of negotiations and, think | :08:41. | :08:43. | |
about it as well, it's pretty specific, we are talking about the | :08:44. | :08:46. | |
African part of this problem with migration for Europe, the idea of a | :08:47. | :08:51. | |
much bigger flow from Turkey into Greece, that is for another date I'm | :08:52. | :08:55. | |
told by the European Council. It's specific small steps at a time. Do | :08:56. | :08:59. | |
you have a bit more detail, Gavin, on what this massive amount of money | :09:00. | :09:03. | |
will be spent on? I mean it's got to be jobs in the end, hasn't it, if | :09:04. | :09:08. | |
most people in parts of Africa are moving across the continent towards | :09:09. | :09:12. | |
the continent of Europe for work? Yes. Let me give you an example of | :09:13. | :09:19. | |
Britain's contribution. They have put 3 million euros to the trust | :09:20. | :09:27. | |
fund, just over ?2 billion, a separate donation of ?25 million of | :09:28. | :09:30. | |
taxpayers' money for Ethiopia. They have had a huge surge of migration | :09:31. | :09:37. | |
people leaving in the country from just under 400,000 to just under a | :09:38. | :09:41. | |
million this year to try to increase developments there. Money to the | :09:42. | :09:46. | |
whole region. So Mali and certainly around the West of Africa as well, | :09:47. | :09:50. | |
having humanitarian projects to help immediate aid relief. For Somalia | :09:51. | :09:56. | |
too there is a big jobs prospect. David Cameron says it will create | :09:57. | :10:00. | |
9,000 jobs so it's sporadic siphoned off areas. You have got to the core | :10:01. | :10:04. | |
of this though, there are a lot of leaders. This summit have pledged a | :10:05. | :10:09. | |
minimum amount and they have matched what other leaders have done, they | :10:10. | :10:13. | |
won't go further until they can see proof of the money being spent and | :10:14. | :10:18. | |
we see the return rate of the asylum seekers as economic migrants, | :10:19. | :10:22. | |
something like 40% of those immigrants have been returned, no | :10:23. | :10:25. | |
more than that, that rate's got to increase before other nations decide | :10:26. | :10:28. | |
to pledge any more money. Thank you very much very much Gavin. | :10:29. | :10:41. | |
Coming up, we are going to see George Clooney prepare to make | :10:42. | :10:47. | |
sandwiches at a cafe in Scotland. Breaking news to bring you from our | :10:48. | :10:51. | |
health editor, hue PIP who says the number of patients stuck in hospital | :10:52. | :10:55. | |
beds in England because their discharge was delayed was at a | :10:56. | :11:04. | |
record high in September -- hue PIP. -- Hugh Pym. | :11:05. | :11:11. | |
Pressure on social services because of falling budgets has been blamed | :11:12. | :11:15. | |
by many for the increase in the number of patients delayed from | :11:16. | :11:18. | |
being discharged. Now, the Indian Prime Minister, that | :11:19. | :11:23. | |
Rennes diploma Modi has arrived in Britain for a three-day visit | :11:24. | :11:32. | |
expected to secure trade deals worth billions -- Narendra mow di. | :11:33. | :11:37. | |
Christian Fraser, what is he going to do? Out comes the red carpet | :11:38. | :11:51. | |
again, we have had Xi Jin ping and the fastest growing economy's Prime | :11:52. | :11:56. | |
Minister, so strategicically important to British Trade | :11:57. | :11:58. | |
Industry. There is a feeling when you read the newspapers that there | :11:59. | :12:02. | |
is unrequited love there, that's the headline in the Financial Times, the | :12:03. | :12:06. | |
idea that Britain is down on bended knee with the flowers for India, yet | :12:07. | :12:10. | |
India in return's been this aloof lover. Narendra mow di's taken 18 | :12:11. | :12:17. | |
months to come here, he's been to 27 countries before Britain. The | :12:18. | :12:20. | |
Government can point to the obstacle of the general election but there is | :12:21. | :12:23. | |
a feeling that there is untapped potential in this relationship. The | :12:24. | :12:27. | |
red carpet being rolled out yet again. Not a full state visit but | :12:28. | :12:32. | |
you will recognise there are many similarities to the XI Jin Ping | :12:33. | :12:42. | |
visit. He'll lunch with the Queen tomorrow, they'll go via the statute | :12:43. | :12:52. | |
of Gandhi on the way to a speech to a joint session of the House and, | :12:53. | :12:58. | |
according to Keith Vaz today, it's the first time an Indian Prime | :12:59. | :13:01. | |
Minister's addressed the Parliament. So a landmark event in that sense. | :13:02. | :13:06. | |
Tomorrow, I suppose the most important point of the visit for Mr | :13:07. | :13:10. | |
Mow di, that is this huge political rally that they are going to have at | :13:11. | :13:15. | |
Wembley. Around 70,000 Indians bust in from all around the country to | :13:16. | :13:20. | |
mark the final day of Divali, the Indian Festival of Light -- Modi. | :13:21. | :13:27. | |
Thank you very much. Thanks for joining us. Still to come | :13:28. | :13:37. | |
before 11, claims that women and doctors have lost confidence in HRT | :13:38. | :13:40. | |
as a possible treatment for the men pause because of the associated | :13:41. | :13:44. | |
cancer risk. We'll talk about that, I have some messages from you as | :13:45. | :13:48. | |
well who've been taking HRT. Also, the father of one of the British | :13:49. | :13:54. | |
victims of the Germanwings plane crash caused by Andreas Lubitz | :13:55. | :14:01. | |
deliberately crashed the plane into the Alps, the families still need | :14:02. | :14:09. | |
answers. African and EU leaders have approved | :14:10. | :14:16. | |
and signed off on a ?1.3 billion fund to reduce the migrants heading | :14:17. | :14:19. | |
to Europe as a result of a special migration summit being held in Malta | :14:20. | :14:22. | |
which continues today. Despite the fund, the President of the EU | :14:23. | :14:25. | |
commission, Jean-Claude Juncker, has said he wants to see member states | :14:26. | :14:34. | |
making further contributions. Indian's Prime Minister, Narendra | :14:35. | :14:38. | |
mow dibegins a three-day visit today, the first visit of an Indian | :14:39. | :14:43. | |
PM in almost a decade. He'll make an address in Parliament later and | :14:44. | :14:47. | |
there'll be a fly-past by the Red Arrows. He's accused by some of | :14:48. | :14:53. | |
having an authoritarian agenda. Mental care patients could be at | :14:54. | :14:58. | |
risk of cost cutting according to an influential think-tank. The King's | :14:59. | :15:03. | |
Fund warns 40% of Health Trusts are facing budget cuts so are reducing | :15:04. | :15:07. | |
staff and hospital beds. It claims many are introducing cheaper, | :15:08. | :15:12. | |
untested self-help services. No-one's really taking | :15:13. | :15:16. | |
responsibility and meanwhile my friends keep dying because they need | :15:17. | :15:20. | |
services that aren't there, and these are avoidable, preventible | :15:21. | :15:23. | |
deaths of young people and this should not be happening. | :15:24. | :15:26. | |
A nurse who contracted Ebola while working in Sierra Leone has | :15:27. | :15:29. | |
been declared free of the virus and taken out of isolation. | :15:30. | :15:32. | |
Pauline Cafferkey was readmitted to the specialist unit at the | :15:33. | :15:34. | |
Royal Free in London last month after falling | :15:35. | :15:36. | |
She's now been transferred to a hospital in Glasgow to continue | :15:37. | :15:40. | |
Fifa has released the names of the five candidates who will | :15:41. | :15:45. | |
compete to replace Sepp Blatter as the president | :15:46. | :15:47. | |
Controversial figure and one-time race favourite Michel Platini did | :15:48. | :15:53. | |
not make the list, while Musa Hassan Bility was also not included. | :15:54. | :16:00. | |
Apple has apologised to six black schoolboys who were asked to leave | :16:01. | :16:03. | |
Footage of the incident in Melbourne sparked a social media outcry. | :16:04. | :16:09. | |
A staff member can be heard saying security are concerned that | :16:10. | :16:13. | |
We're worried about your presence in our store, we're worried you | :16:14. | :16:18. | |
The boy who posted it on Facebook labelled it 'simply racism'. | :16:19. | :16:31. | |
The store manager has now said sorry to the boys and their headteacher. | :16:32. | :16:38. | |
One of the boys involved has accepted the apology. | :16:39. | :16:46. | |
Let's catch up with all the sport now and join Hugh. | :16:47. | :16:49. | |
Hello again, the main headlines in sport this morning. | :16:50. | :16:51. | |
The Russian President Vladimir Putin has ordered | :16:52. | :16:53. | |
a full investigation into claims of 'state-sponsored doping.' | :16:54. | :16:55. | |
It's after a World Anti-Doping Agency report recommended the | :16:56. | :16:57. | |
country be banned from athletics. | :16:58. | :16:58. | |
After Stuart Lancaster parted ways with England yesterday the search is | :16:59. | :17:02. | |
on for a new head coach, but will the RFU have to look | :17:03. | :17:05. | |
Lewis Hamilton will take part in this weekend's Brazilian Grand Prix | :17:06. | :17:10. | |
He's also revealed he had a road accident in Monaco earlier | :17:11. | :17:15. | |
And Chelsea's women face a difficult task to reach the quarterfinals | :17:16. | :17:23. | |
They lost the home leg of their last 16 tie against Wolfsburg 2-1. | :17:24. | :17:31. | |
They will need a great result in the the return leg next week. | :17:32. | :17:34. | |
That's all the sport for this morning, I'll have all the latest | :17:35. | :17:37. | |
I'm back tomorrow Victoria, see you then. | :17:38. | :17:41. | |
Let's talk about the Nursie contracted a bowler working in | :17:42. | :17:47. | |
Sierra Leone. She fell seriously ill again last month and has now been | :17:48. | :17:51. | |
released from an isolation ward at the Royal Free Hospital, having been | :17:52. | :17:56. | |
flown back to Glasgow to continue her recovery. In October, Pauline | :17:57. | :18:01. | |
Cafferkey's condition was described as critical. Let's talk to Jane | :18:02. | :18:06. | |
Draper, our health correspondent. Great news? A true, having Ebola not | :18:07. | :18:12. | |
once but twice, being critically ill from it not once but twice, there | :18:13. | :18:16. | |
were serious fears for her life and survival when she was said to be | :18:17. | :18:19. | |
critically ill at the Royal free last month. When she was readmitted | :18:20. | :18:25. | |
over a month ago it caused shock around the world, what did it mean | :18:26. | :18:30. | |
for other Ebola survivors? We knew that the virus could hang on in | :18:31. | :18:34. | |
bombardment of the body, but to make someone this ill again caused | :18:35. | :18:37. | |
serious concerns, so it is great news that she is on the mend and | :18:38. | :18:40. | |
back in Glasgow. Can I ask how they treat the virus? | :18:41. | :18:47. | |
This time she was treated with an experimental anti-viral drug, a | :18:48. | :18:50. | |
relatively new drug involving a drip once a day that she was given an | :18:51. | :18:54. | |
infusion with, and it seemed to do the trick. But it is such a new area | :18:55. | :18:58. | |
of science, there have been four cases now at the Royal Free, twice | :18:59. | :19:06. | |
in bold thing Pauline, and each time all four patients, each four | :19:07. | :19:13. | |
incidents used different treatments. It appears to have worked but we | :19:14. | :19:16. | |
don't know if that was the drugs they were given all the body getting | :19:17. | :19:20. | |
better, there is a lot we don't know about this virus. | :19:21. | :19:23. | |
And I suppose we don't know if this is the final recovery or if she | :19:24. | :19:28. | |
could regress? They don't know that either, resume of the? | :19:29. | :19:31. | |
They are as confident as they can be, otherwise they would not have | :19:32. | :19:34. | |
released from the specialist unit and the plastic tent in which she | :19:35. | :19:38. | |
was being treated, so they are answered and there is no risk to the | :19:39. | :19:42. | |
public. The biggest risk was always to Pauline herself rather than | :19:43. | :19:47. | |
anyone else. But, yes, there are still uncertain questions more | :19:48. | :19:50. | |
generally about the science of this virus, we are still learning. | :19:51. | :19:51. | |
Thank you, Jane. When co-pilot Andreas Lubitz | :19:52. | :19:54. | |
deliberately took control of his plane and plunged it | :19:55. | :19:56. | |
in a mountainside in the French Alps earlier this year, | :19:57. | :19:59. | |
he killed all 150 people on board. The family and friends of the | :20:00. | :20:05. | |
victims have spent the last eight months trying to come to terms with | :20:06. | :20:08. | |
what happened but they're also still searching for answers about how this | :20:09. | :20:11. | |
tragedy could have happened. The view so many visitors have | :20:12. | :20:26. | |
adored. Now the scene | :20:27. | :20:27. | |
of Europe's latest tragedy. This is where flight number 9525 | :20:28. | :20:29. | |
crashed into France's Southern Alps this morning, | :20:30. | :20:32. | |
with 150 people on board. A passenger aircraft reduced to | :20:33. | :20:33. | |
debris the size of small cars. All around are the jagged edges | :20:34. | :20:36. | |
and rugged peaks of the mountains, which are accessible, of course, | :20:37. | :20:39. | |
only from the air. That's making the recovery | :20:40. | :20:41. | |
and salvage operation after So many faces, so many lives, | :20:42. | :20:44. | |
and a single question: Why did Andreas Lubitz, entrusted to | :20:45. | :20:50. | |
fly these people safely, appear to We found medical records indicating | :20:51. | :20:57. | |
an existing illness and treatment. Torn-up sick notes, | :20:58. | :21:05. | |
including one from the day That supports the theory that | :21:06. | :21:10. | |
the deceased hid his illness What do we know about | :21:11. | :21:14. | |
Andreas Lubitz? The 27-year-old qualified | :21:15. | :21:17. | |
as a pilot in 2013. When he took off on Tuesday he had | :21:18. | :21:21. | |
630 hours of flight experience. There is speculation | :21:22. | :21:26. | |
about a six-month break he took But as far | :21:27. | :21:28. | |
as Lufthansa are concerned, Perhaps one of today's most | :21:29. | :21:34. | |
distressing reports comes from the German tabloid newspaper, Bild, | :21:35. | :21:41. | |
which claims it has got hold of a leaked copy of the cockpit voice | :21:42. | :21:44. | |
recording made on flight 9525. On it, it's claimed you can hear | :21:45. | :21:50. | |
the co-pilot, Andreas Lubitz, who's accused of deliberately | :21:51. | :21:55. | |
having brought down the plane, chatting with his senior college, | :21:56. | :21:58. | |
the pilot, before they take off. The pilot complains he's not had | :21:59. | :22:01. | |
a chance to use the toilet. Once they are in the air, | :22:02. | :22:05. | |
the co-pilot urges him The pilot does so, and then, | :22:06. | :22:08. | |
according to Bild, can be heard knocking on the door, | :22:09. | :22:13. | |
increasingly desperately, Passengers can be heard screaming | :22:14. | :22:15. | |
as the pilot shouts, It is yet another chilling detail | :22:16. | :22:21. | |
to come out of this disaster. New evidence that the co-pilot | :22:22. | :22:28. | |
practised his fatal dive that killed It happened on a flight from Germany | :22:29. | :22:32. | |
to Spain earlier the same day. On board that flight were | :22:33. | :22:42. | |
three British victims. One of them was 28-year-old | :22:43. | :22:44. | |
Paul Bramley. Let's talk to Paul's father, Phil, | :22:45. | :22:48. | |
in his first national TV interview. Thank you very much for coming on | :22:49. | :22:57. | |
the programme. Tell us about your son. He liked his football, very | :22:58. | :23:08. | |
affectionate, lovely lad. He used to play football where we live, here's | :23:09. | :23:13. | |
a Manchester United fan. It is difficult to speak about him because | :23:14. | :23:19. | |
it is still very raw. He travelled, spoke many languages? Yes, I was | :23:20. | :23:25. | |
thinking about that this morning, four languages, I don't know where | :23:26. | :23:28. | |
he got it from! It must have been his mother! He had an Estonian | :23:29. | :23:36. | |
girlfriend, so that helped him. He lived with us in Portugal, had a | :23:37. | :23:39. | |
place in Majorca, so he spoke Spanish. Pretty good with his | :23:40. | :23:46. | |
languages. He loved to travel. I think that's what led him, he was | :23:47. | :23:54. | |
training to be a hotel manager, in hospitality. Everything was in front | :23:55. | :24:00. | |
of them, at fantastic life. I think the plan was that you were going to | :24:01. | :24:03. | |
build a hotel for him because you are in the trade, and he would run | :24:04. | :24:07. | |
it for you? He had worked with us, he was a great lad to work with, you | :24:08. | :24:15. | |
never had to tell him off, always on time. He was great to work with, and | :24:16. | :24:20. | |
that is where we saw his future. He liked people, he wanted to be in | :24:21. | :24:24. | |
hotel management. I build hotels and renovate them, so that was as far as | :24:25. | :24:34. | |
we had got. In terms of the company, Lufthansa, who ran | :24:35. | :24:38. | |
Germanwings, what answers do you need from them still? The big one, | :24:39. | :24:46. | |
for us, is the mental health, we want transparency and the truth of | :24:47. | :24:53. | |
what I understand of the facts from the French prosecutors will stop a | :24:54. | :24:59. | |
few weeks before the flight, he was still seeing seven doctors. This is | :25:00. | :25:05. | |
the co-pilot, Andreas Lubitz. He had seen several doctors from 2009 | :25:06. | :25:09. | |
onwards, I still cannot understand how somebody is allowed to be in a | :25:10. | :25:15. | |
cockpit on his own with those sorts of issues that they knew about, so | :25:16. | :25:19. | |
we want transparency on that side of it. | :25:20. | :25:24. | |
You will know that German state prosecutor said that they found | :25:25. | :25:29. | |
evidence that Lubitz had hidden this unspecified medical condition. If | :25:30. | :25:35. | |
someone hide that, I wonder if you can legislate for that? We thought | :25:36. | :25:42. | |
about it, him hiding stuff, but we are talking about a five-year | :25:43. | :25:45. | |
period. The health checks that should have been done, that were | :25:46. | :25:49. | |
done, how did he sit through those? How did he continue to be able... He | :25:50. | :25:56. | |
had been suspended, how can you get back on and fly again? It is a long | :25:57. | :26:02. | |
period of time, 51 different doctors. What about his friends, | :26:03. | :26:06. | |
relatives, who else is going through this? Right up to a couple of weeks | :26:07. | :26:10. | |
before, where are the safeguards, what are they doing to allow | :26:11. | :26:15. | |
somebody back into the cockpit? You have got a duty of care. It is | :26:16. | :26:24. | |
ridiculous, there has got to be some checks. Do you feel you have been | :26:25. | :26:31. | |
treated decently by the company? No, it is almost run by solicitors, the | :26:32. | :26:34. | |
stuff going on now. They are arrogant, inhumane. How they are | :26:35. | :26:40. | |
having to deal with things, the information coming back, obviously | :26:41. | :26:44. | |
they have got their defences up. We want justice for all of the | :26:45. | :26:48. | |
families, all of the people. We want the information, we don't want it to | :26:49. | :26:54. | |
happen again. There are other issues, I want a proper memorial at | :26:55. | :27:04. | |
the crash site. There is one already, we turned up this year for | :27:05. | :27:09. | |
Paul's birthday to the crash site and these seven big concrete bunkers | :27:10. | :27:16. | |
have turned up, full of the body parts. I don't like that. There are | :27:17. | :27:24. | |
quite a lot of things we would like to see happening, and bit more | :27:25. | :27:27. | |
dignified than concrete bunkers and a small plaque. I would like to see | :27:28. | :27:38. | |
them mentioned by name. I know you travelled up that mountain on | :27:39. | :27:41. | |
Paul's birthday. Why was that important to you? I felt it was | :27:42. | :27:47. | |
obviously where it happened, where he left his body, so I wanted to... | :27:48. | :27:57. | |
Are you OK? Yes. I wanted to go up there and sit and just be a bit | :27:58. | :28:03. | |
closer, I suppose. Is it difficult, that one. -- a bit difficult. It is | :28:04. | :28:12. | |
about four hours, you are not supposed to go up there because they | :28:13. | :28:15. | |
are still flying in a doubt, it has been six months, they are still | :28:16. | :28:19. | |
sanitising the area, helicopters around all the time, so I got up | :28:20. | :28:25. | |
early, managed to get up there in four hours, as high as I could to | :28:26. | :28:29. | |
the rock face. It gives you a bit of comfort, it is a lovely place, very | :28:30. | :28:37. | |
pretty place. You have got to remember there are only about 150 | :28:38. | :28:41. | |
French people living in that area as well and it has affected them | :28:42. | :28:45. | |
enormously. Something should be done a bit more properly for them as | :28:46. | :28:48. | |
well, it would help and be fantastic for us. Dignified. Something should | :28:49. | :28:59. | |
be done. Whose responsibility is it, do you think, to make the decision | :29:00. | :29:04. | |
about an appropriate and dignified memorial? I think the families, we | :29:05. | :29:09. | |
are all the same, we all feel the same, we want something that | :29:10. | :29:14. | |
remembers our children a bit more than what there is. It has been left | :29:15. | :29:19. | |
up to the French, I think, and I think they feel affronted by a tall | :29:20. | :29:26. | |
as well. It is disgraceful, what has happened. They have had to look | :29:27. | :29:32. | |
after it all and do it all. I think if that would be good. You used the | :29:33. | :29:38. | |
word inhumane to the company have treated, that is how you feel you | :29:39. | :29:42. | |
have been treated by the company? Yes, it is almost like cut-price | :29:43. | :29:50. | |
airlines, I don't think it is compatible, we are all to blame in | :29:51. | :29:57. | |
some respects for this sort of culture of cheap flights. It is not | :29:58. | :30:00. | |
compatible with safety, in my view, anyway. If it -- that is a bigger | :30:01. | :30:11. | |
story. In terms of the way they have treated you? They took a step back, | :30:12. | :30:14. | |
left it to the solicitors, accountants, everything else, arms | :30:15. | :30:19. | |
length. It weeks to get a response that Paul was on the flight. Nobody | :30:20. | :30:30. | |
has ever wrong and apologised -- ever called and apologised. I | :30:31. | :30:34. | |
suppose they are frightened of the repercussions and everything else, | :30:35. | :30:39. | |
but the humane side, if you were the CEO you would get straight on the | :30:40. | :30:42. | |
phone and wring every family, every person. But you are probably right | :30:43. | :30:47. | |
that they perhaps think if they apologise it is at a meeting some | :30:48. | :30:51. | |
sort of liability at this point? We are beyond that, the liability is in | :30:52. | :30:55. | |
place, they have a duty of care and they have failed. It is almost a | :30:56. | :31:04. | |
given where the fault lies. Lubitz, the state he was in and everything | :31:05. | :31:09. | |
else. An airline is there to prevent those sorts of things happening. You | :31:10. | :31:12. | |
cannot put somebody in charge of a plane who has got that history. | :31:13. | :31:19. | |
I've got a statement from Germanwings, you will have heard | :31:20. | :31:29. | |
this before. We we share in the sadness, shock and incomprehension | :31:30. | :31:35. | |
of the family and friends". It's short? Yes, so ring us up, you know, | :31:36. | :31:42. | |
speak to us directly. Carol would appreciate so much more. We have a | :31:43. | :31:46. | |
life sentence. That paragraph is shameful really. It's corporate | :31:47. | :31:51. | |
talk, it's, you know, these are real people and real families and, you | :31:52. | :31:57. | |
know, I would imagine they'll think that provided their share price | :31:58. | :32:01. | |
isn't affected and all the other things, that this will go away in no | :32:02. | :32:09. | |
time and we don't want this to be Just one of those that's happened. | :32:10. | :32:14. | |
There was the Russian one, the Malaysian one, this one could have | :32:15. | :32:17. | |
been prevented, this was different, something could have been done more | :32:18. | :32:20. | |
than what was done. I know it's been really difficult | :32:21. | :32:24. | |
for you to talk about this, but you have done it amazingly well, thank | :32:25. | :32:27. | |
you very much, we really appreciate your time, thank you. Thank you. | :32:28. | :32:31. | |
Before the end of the programme, we are going to talk about HRT and the | :32:32. | :32:36. | |
associated cancer risks and, a report out today which suggests that | :32:37. | :32:42. | |
HRT can do a lot of good for women going through the menopause. More on | :32:43. | :32:48. | |
that in the next few minutes. George Clooney has just opened a cafe for | :32:49. | :32:54. | |
homeless people in Edinburgh. Our correspondent Kevin is there. This | :32:55. | :32:58. | |
is a tiny back street. It's a busy street here in Edinburgh but it's a | :32:59. | :33:03. | |
pedestrianised area. There was quite a crowd here, gathered from early on | :33:04. | :33:07. | |
this morning, and when George Clooney arrived, he got out, | :33:08. | :33:11. | |
unexpectedly at the beginning of the crowd, and worked his way all across | :33:12. | :33:16. | |
them, speaking to people, shaking hands. A lot of people taking | :33:17. | :33:20. | |
selfies, a lot of people just enjoying the moment of seeing this | :33:21. | :33:25. | |
Hollywood film star in this small back street in Edinburgh. He was | :33:26. | :33:30. | |
here, as you say, to see this social project where people come in, they | :33:31. | :33:33. | |
buy themselves a coffee then they can leave money to buy a coffee for | :33:34. | :33:37. | |
homeless or disadvantaged people. But just before he went in, I was | :33:38. | :33:40. | |
lucky enough to get a quick word with him. | :33:41. | :33:45. | |
What do you think of what they do there? It's pretty amazing, I'm | :33:46. | :33:50. | |
going to see it, haven't seen it up close yet. Why are you supporting | :33:51. | :33:56. | |
this charity? It's a great idea. The idea that we can participate in | :33:57. | :33:59. | |
people's problems is important. You must be used to a crowd like that in | :34:00. | :34:02. | |
Scotland, we are not, what do you think of it? It's not bad because | :34:03. | :34:06. | |
they are standing out in the cold. They are going to Sir John Stevens | :34:07. | :34:09. | |
you a sandwich. What kind of a sandwich do you like? I gotta see | :34:10. | :34:17. | |
what they got. They tell me stew is on the menu, what do you think of | :34:18. | :34:22. | |
that? They got what? Stew. I'm good with stew. How do you feel about | :34:23. | :34:27. | |
being in Scotland... How do you feel about this company making a social | :34:28. | :34:31. | |
difference whereas Starbucks don't pay any tax. I don't know about | :34:32. | :34:35. | |
Starbucks but I know about this company which is pretty great. Are | :34:36. | :34:39. | |
you going to buy a loyalty card? Yes, I am. How much are you going to | :34:40. | :34:43. | |
put on it? I don't know yet, I'll have a look. Don't push. You hand's | :34:44. | :34:50. | |
freezing. There he was, Josh George Clooney, | :34:51. | :34:57. | |
he's gone now but a few people who came to see him are still here. Why | :34:58. | :35:01. | |
did you come here? I love him. He's so handsome. I was working and | :35:02. | :35:06. | |
somebody came and said, George Clooney is in castle Street and I | :35:07. | :35:12. | |
said, oh, my God, I ran here, came here, took a picture of him, tried | :35:13. | :35:17. | |
to make a selfie but couldn't. You were not quite chasing after car but | :35:18. | :35:26. | |
you managed to speak to him? Yes, and touch him. Absolutely worth the | :35:27. | :35:30. | |
wait, two hours, well worth it. The person that he really came to see | :35:31. | :35:34. | |
was the cofounder of the cafe, so how did this all come about? We knew | :35:35. | :35:40. | |
George was a committed humanitarian, he has a charity in Sudan so we | :35:41. | :35:45. | |
reached out to him and said we'd fund-raise for his charity and asked | :35:46. | :35:51. | |
him to visit our Social Bite cafe, a social enterprise where we feed | :35:52. | :35:54. | |
through meals that our customers prepay for for the local homeless | :35:55. | :35:59. | |
community and we employ a quarter of the workforce from the homeless | :36:00. | :36:04. | |
community so very excited that he came. What did he eat or drink? It | :36:05. | :36:08. | |
was unbelievable, we have had the global media today so for our small | :36:09. | :36:14. | |
Scottish cafes, the profile is amazing, raises the concept of | :36:15. | :36:17. | |
social enterprise, homelessness. He was incredibly charming, met all the | :36:18. | :36:22. | |
staff, did selfies, we gave the opportunity for a couple of guys to | :36:23. | :36:26. | |
tell their story a bit. We let him sample some of the food and I think | :36:27. | :36:31. | |
he's donated ?1,000 by all accounts to prepay meals for homeless people | :36:32. | :36:35. | |
and he handed over a ?5 note as well. He worked the crowd when he | :36:36. | :36:41. | |
was here as well, a true pro? An absolute pro, never quite seen | :36:42. | :36:45. | |
anything like it, incredibly charismatic, stopped, shook hands, | :36:46. | :36:48. | |
got photos with almost anyone that he could so unbelievable. Quite a | :36:49. | :36:51. | |
day for Edinburgh, thank you very much, Josh. Quite a day for | :36:52. | :36:55. | |
Edinburgh, it's not every day that an international film star, one of | :36:56. | :36:58. | |
the most famous that there is comes to a little back street like this. | :36:59. | :37:14. | |
It's believed HRT use has dropped dramatically since a couple of | :37:15. | :37:20. | |
studies linked it to an increased risk of cancer a few years ago. A | :37:21. | :37:23. | |
report says specialist services should be in place for women under | :37:24. | :37:27. | |
the age of 40 who begin premature menopause. Melanie Davies is a | :37:28. | :37:33. | |
consultant gainologist at London University Hospital and has worked | :37:34. | :37:44. | |
on the guidelines and three women, Nia, Fisher Subarta. What is if | :37:45. | :37:51. | |
menopause? When a woman's periods stop, stop producing the female | :37:52. | :37:54. | |
hormone which is oestrogen. The similar Poms? About eight out of ten | :37:55. | :38:00. | |
get symptoms, a quarter quite severely. It's typically hot | :38:01. | :38:06. | |
flushes, night sweats, often muscle and joint pain, mood changes, | :38:07. | :38:11. | |
particularly low mood and frequently sexual difficulties, sometimes those | :38:12. | :38:15. | |
are physical to do with vaginal dryness and sometimes psychological | :38:16. | :38:19. | |
with loss of interest. So HRT can help, what are the risks associated | :38:20. | :38:23. | |
with taking it though in terms of cancer specifically? I should say | :38:24. | :38:32. | |
the guideline tries to look at all approaches, not just at HRT. That is | :38:33. | :38:36. | |
the most effective treatment for the symptoms though. The concern has | :38:37. | :38:40. | |
been mainly over cancer risk and in particular the risk of breast | :38:41. | :38:45. | |
cancer. We have reexamined all of the evidence and we are really | :38:46. | :38:48. | |
focussing on women who are around the age of 50 going to their doctor | :38:49. | :38:53. | |
with symptoms. For them, over the next five to ten years, there is a | :38:54. | :38:58. | |
risk of breast cancer, it's about 22 in 1,000, to give you some numbers, | :38:59. | :39:05. | |
and that would increase to about five per 1000. So HRT would be | :39:06. | :39:11. | |
responsible for? An extra five cases of breast cancer. Up from the 22 | :39:12. | :39:16. | |
expected in a thousand women over five years? Between five and ten. | :39:17. | :39:22. | |
Let me ask all three of you, some of you have taken HRT, some not, what | :39:23. | :39:26. | |
do you think of the risks and how it affects your choices? I refused to | :39:27. | :39:32. | |
take it. Because of the cancer risk? Precisely because of the cancer | :39:33. | :39:37. | |
risk. Even though it's so small? Indeed but I already have existed | :39:38. | :39:41. | |
illnesses so I'm putting in a far more amount of chemicals inside my | :39:42. | :39:46. | |
body than necessary or required, so I turn to alternative they aries | :39:47. | :39:52. | |
using herbal medicine. That was far more beneficial. Nia, what about | :39:53. | :39:56. | |
you? I was diagnosed with menopause when I was 35 so the pros I thought | :39:57. | :40:03. | |
far outweighed the cons as far as oestrogen that my body wasn't | :40:04. | :40:05. | |
producing naturally any more. I think it's great that the guidelines | :40:06. | :40:09. | |
that it mentions women under the age of 40 because there is a definite | :40:10. | :40:12. | |
lack of support up until now. Hopefully that will change. | :40:13. | :40:17. | |
Anxietyian, yours was a surgical menopause after a hysterectomy? Yes, | :40:18. | :40:22. | |
total hysterectomy including both ovaries. Your decision about it was | :40:23. | :40:28. | |
what? Initially it was that I chose not to take it and that was | :40:29. | :40:34. | |
essentially due to a lack of information. My information was | :40:35. | :40:43. | |
based on the way that some HRT is produced which is conjugated equine | :40:44. | :40:46. | |
oestrogen andethically I could not take that. What was that thing | :40:47. | :40:53. | |
about... Conjugated equine oestrogen. Is that horse urine, is | :40:54. | :40:59. | |
that true that it contains that? That is the original HRT and the | :41:00. | :41:05. | |
most widely used. The modern ones are not animal derivatives and they | :41:06. | :41:12. | |
are more close to the human body. The GPs are saying effectively what? | :41:13. | :41:16. | |
Have an individual discussion with the women that come to seek your | :41:17. | :41:21. | |
advice. GPs would do that anyway without guidelines... That's not | :41:22. | :41:26. | |
true, sorry, that's just not true. OK, go on, tell me! It's up to each | :41:27. | :41:30. | |
and every individual woman now to make sure they have access to the | :41:31. | :41:34. | |
right information. In this day and age of the Internet and everything | :41:35. | :41:37. | |
else, there are still so many women who do not have the information they | :41:38. | :41:41. | |
require and the GP is the last person possibly that you would get | :41:42. | :41:44. | |
any information from. All you have to do is ask? Part of the | :41:45. | :41:48. | |
difficulty, Victoria, is that many women feel very, very close by the | :41:49. | :41:52. | |
time they make that appointment and go for that appointment. When | :41:53. | :41:57. | |
they're turned away or given antidepressants or told, do you know | :41:58. | :42:01. | |
actually it's just a phase of life, you'll have to get on with it, no. | :42:02. | :42:08. | |
You want to come in Nia? When I was diagnosed, I was in a state of shock | :42:09. | :42:11. | |
and lost all my confidence. Even the thought of picking up the phone and | :42:12. | :42:15. | |
making a GP appointment was almost too overwhelming and I did but once | :42:16. | :42:19. | |
I was in the room, you need somebody to give you the information and to | :42:20. | :42:22. | |
take the reins because sometimes you are just not in a place where you | :42:23. | :42:25. | |
feel you can do that. You were in a state of shock because A you were | :42:26. | :42:29. | |
young and B it's going to affect your fertility? I'm infertile, yes. | :42:30. | :42:35. | |
What help did you get then? I didn't get any help as far as the emotional | :42:36. | :42:39. | |
side of it at all, no offer of counselling or pointed in any | :42:40. | :42:44. | |
direction at all. It was all about HRT and the physical side of it. But | :42:45. | :42:49. | |
that's only a fraction of what you are actually going through. That is | :42:50. | :42:52. | |
really interesting, you would agree it's a fraction of what is going on | :42:53. | :42:57. | |
up here as well? I initially chose not to take the HRT because my | :42:58. | :43:01. | |
information wasn't complete. Eventually, I got to such a low | :43:02. | :43:05. | |
place in my life, I wasn't functioning at all, and I went back, | :43:06. | :43:11. | |
actually I was taken back to my GP by my wonderful husband and I sat | :43:12. | :43:15. | |
down and when we sat down she said to me, you don't have to have that | :43:16. | :43:22. | |
equine oestrogen, you can have bio-identical oestrogen, but I | :43:23. | :43:26. | |
didn't know that. That hadn't been, at no point mentioned. After my | :43:27. | :43:31. | |
hysterectomy, I'd managed to come out of the hospital within two days, | :43:32. | :43:35. | |
that was my choice, I wanted to be out, I left with absolutely no | :43:36. | :43:36. | |
information. All right. I have learnt a lot, | :43:37. | :43:41. | |
thank you so much. Thank you for coming on the programme all of you. | :43:42. | :43:46. | |
On the programme tomorrow, we'll look at the Russian doping scandal | :43:47. | :43:49. | |
which has rocked athletics. Thank you very much for your company today | :43:50. | :43:52. | |
and messages. Back tomorrow at 9. 15, have a good day. | :43:53. | :44:02. | |
Join us on BBC One for a truly epic night of entertainment, | :44:03. | :44:05. | |
featuring your favourite stars and shows. | :44:06. | :44:09. |