Browse content similar to 02/12/2015. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
Hello, it's Wednesday, it's 9.15, I'm Victoria Derbyshire, | :00:08. | :00:09. | |
MPs will vote today MPs will vote today on whether Britain should | :00:10. | :00:14. | |
join air strikes against so-called Islamic State fighters in Syria. | :00:15. | :00:16. | |
We talk to two mothers who have both lost their sons fighting in Syria. | :00:17. | :00:26. | |
My son Kosta died in Syria helping the Kurdish people in their defence | :00:27. | :00:33. | |
against Isis. I believe close air support can be very helpful and I | :00:34. | :00:38. | |
think Britain should extend their air support into Syria. I lost my | :00:39. | :00:44. | |
son last September in Syria, when the Americans went there and bombed. | :00:45. | :00:49. | |
I don't believe in the Government going to Syria to bomb. I believe it | :00:50. | :00:53. | |
will be the innocent that will be the victims. We will hear both | :00:54. | :01:00. | |
mothers soon. Some MPs are still undecided | :01:01. | :01:03. | |
on how to vote and one key issue is whether air strikes will inevitably | :01:04. | :01:07. | |
lead to Briish troops being sent Now we are absolutely clear that | :01:08. | :01:09. | |
British forces will not be committed That would be unhelpful | :01:10. | :01:14. | |
and inappropriate. Throughout the programme we want to | :01:15. | :01:18. | |
hear from you - how do you want Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg | :01:19. | :01:22. | |
announces he'll give most of his multi-billion dollar fortune | :01:23. | :01:30. | |
to charity - inspired Hello, welcome to the programme, | :01:31. | :01:32. | |
we're on BBC 2 and the BBC News Today do let us know how you want | :01:33. | :01:52. | |
your MP to vote in today's crucial vote on extending | :01:53. | :01:58. | |
air strikes in Syria, and why you Texts are charged | :01:59. | :02:01. | |
at the standard network rate. If you're happy to be called | :02:02. | :02:11. | |
on facetime or via webcam to mark your text or e-mail "call me" | :02:12. | :02:14. | |
and we'll try and get you on air Voting on | :02:15. | :02:18. | |
whether your country should bomb targets in another is just about one | :02:19. | :02:21. | |
of the most significant decisions Today British MPs will do just that, | :02:22. | :02:24. | |
and by the weekend RAF jets could be firing | :02:25. | :02:30. | |
precision missiles on IS targets not The debate in the Commons begins | :02:31. | :02:33. | |
at 11.30 this morning, it will last for around 10 hours and inevitably | :02:34. | :02:41. | |
much of our programme this morning We thought we'd begin | :02:42. | :02:44. | |
though away from the politics - if that's possible - | :02:45. | :02:48. | |
with two mothers who have both lost Vasiliki Scurfield's son Kosta died | :02:49. | :02:51. | |
after three months on the front line fighting against Isis, because he | :02:52. | :03:00. | |
thought the UK should do more. Khadijah Kamara's 19-year-old son | :03:01. | :03:04. | |
Ibrahim went to Syria to fight for IS and was killed it's thought | :03:05. | :03:09. | |
by a US drone in Aleppo. Vasiliki, why did your son want to | :03:10. | :03:26. | |
go and fight in Syria? My son wasn't interested in civil war in Syria, he | :03:27. | :03:31. | |
was particularly concerned about the role of Isis in the oppression and | :03:32. | :03:35. | |
murder and enslavement of vast amounts of people. He was very | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
frustrated when he found out that the British Government was not going | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
to help and he was a critical thinker and a doer and he was a good | :03:46. | :03:51. | |
soldier, he EXELed at what he -- excelled at what he did. He went out | :03:52. | :03:57. | |
there to do really what he thought was right and support the Kurdish | :03:58. | :04:01. | |
people in their defence of their own territory. What was your reaction to | :04:02. | :04:08. | |
that? Fear, terror, horror, all the things any mother would feel. You | :04:09. | :04:12. | |
don't want your son to be at risk. You don't want any of your children | :04:13. | :04:17. | |
to be at risk and there are other ways of helping. I wished he would | :04:18. | :04:25. | |
have done some of those. Khadijah, why did your son want to fight in | :04:26. | :04:30. | |
Syria for a Jihadist group, it is said. I can only explain what he | :04:31. | :04:36. | |
told me, that he wanted to go and help as children and women and the | :04:37. | :04:40. | |
vulnerable people are suffering. But like I told him, I said, look, you | :04:41. | :04:48. | |
don't even know which kind of war is going on and you're still doing your | :04:49. | :04:53. | |
education. You don't have any money. I said how are you going to help. I | :04:54. | :04:57. | |
said there are a lot of different ways to help. You can make donations | :04:58. | :05:02. | |
and they're training aid workers to bring donations to people. You going | :05:03. | :05:07. | |
there, I don't think that is a good idea. We talked about that. I | :05:08. | :05:12. | |
remember the first time I was in the car, I was driving, but it wasn't | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
obvious that he will really make a move and go. You didn't really think | :05:17. | :05:25. | |
he would do it. And more over, his passport was expired, so I didn't | :05:26. | :05:31. | |
renew it, so just to make sure he will not go, because... I never know | :05:32. | :05:35. | |
where things might lead to. But then... You thought that would be | :05:36. | :05:41. | |
enough Yes, because it wasn't obvious when he said he wanted to | :05:42. | :05:45. | |
go. It wasn't obvious. But he started changing. He started going | :05:46. | :05:49. | |
out more. Coming late and things like that. For you, there was no | :05:50. | :05:55. | |
clear indication that he was becoming radicalised. No, yes. Could | :05:56. | :06:02. | |
you have stopped Kosta from going there? No, I couldn't. I believe his | :06:03. | :06:11. | |
friends in the military and people like that tried to stop him. But if | :06:12. | :06:15. | |
someone's determined to go, they will go. At the end of the day we | :06:16. | :06:21. | |
bring our children up really to hopefully be people who will stand | :06:22. | :06:27. | |
by their principles and people of integrity and if that is what my son | :06:28. | :06:34. | |
did in the end. Khadijah, your son rang you when he got to Syria. Yes | :06:35. | :06:43. | |
he rang me on 2nd January, February sorry. He said mom, around 11.45 and | :06:44. | :06:50. | |
said to me mum, I'm in Syria and then I hang up. He called again, mum | :06:51. | :06:55. | |
did you hang up on me. I said yes, don't ever call me again. Because | :06:56. | :07:00. | |
you were so angry. I was... I don't know, it was a mixed up feeling. | :07:01. | :07:06. | |
Anger. I felt let down. Disappointment. And everything and | :07:07. | :07:11. | |
all the stigma that goes with that that your son has gone to Syria and | :07:12. | :07:16. | |
all that. So I was angry. All the time that he was there I was angry. | :07:17. | :07:22. | |
Until around May. I befriended him again on Facebook. I didn't want to | :07:23. | :07:27. | |
hear Syria. I didn't want anything that would remind me of that. That | :07:28. | :07:30. | |
is the emotional part of it. I didn't want to hear it. I didn't | :07:31. | :07:37. | |
want to hear it at all. Because I cannot figure it out. And I was not | :07:38. | :07:44. | |
just angry with my son living - eleaving, I was angry at the fact | :07:45. | :07:50. | |
that he was able to take a 15 years old passport that wasn't his and | :07:51. | :07:53. | |
travel with it and they let him go like that. I was angry for | :07:54. | :07:58. | |
everything. And up to this day, I haven't got any answer and nobody | :07:59. | :08:03. | |
has had the guts to take responsibility, that yes, this | :08:04. | :08:07. | |
happened was not supposed to happen. It was wrong. That anger is in me up | :08:08. | :08:13. | |
to now. But the anger of my son went since the day I heard about his | :08:14. | :08:19. | |
death. Each day I pray for him that God forgive him and have mercy on | :08:20. | :08:26. | |
him. But the anger... For him not being helped from himself is in me | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
for letting him travel with a 15 years old passport. That was a big | :08:32. | :08:38. | |
blunder. You have both lost a son. There are many differences in both | :08:39. | :08:43. | |
cases, what would you say to anybody who's, any young man, British young | :08:44. | :08:46. | |
man, who might be considering going to Syria whether to fight against | :08:47. | :08:57. | |
IS, or for Jihadi groups like them? Don't go. That simple. Why? I can't | :08:58. | :09:04. | |
speak for people wanting to join IS, in my opinion it is a bad | :09:05. | :09:09. | |
organisation, so people shouldn't want to, in terms of supporting the | :09:10. | :09:14. | |
Kurds, the Kurds have made good progress, their area is liberated | :09:15. | :09:17. | |
and they're assisting in the liberation of other areas and things | :09:18. | :09:22. | |
have moved on. I don't think it is as vital they have support and I | :09:23. | :09:26. | |
wouldn't want other mums to be in our position. I will say you just | :09:27. | :09:34. | |
are growing up. A lot of things have happened before you were born. | :09:35. | :09:39. | |
History and so you don't know much. I will say think and don't follow | :09:40. | :09:45. | |
your own desire, think about your loved ones, think about your parents | :09:46. | :09:50. | |
before you make the devastation that you will leave them in and your | :09:51. | :09:57. | |
siblings and just packing your bag one day and you leave like that, I | :09:58. | :10:02. | |
think say about that and I will say... I will ask the question, | :10:03. | :10:12. | |
if... If they're really thinking about going, have they talked to | :10:13. | :10:17. | |
themselves, which good will it bring? And I want them to ask my son | :10:18. | :10:24. | |
that went and others that have gone and look at the situation today in | :10:25. | :10:28. | |
Syria was them going there worth it? Have they solved the problem? Have | :10:29. | :10:34. | |
they saved the people? Are they not suffering now more than ever before? | :10:35. | :10:39. | |
I want them to ask themselves that question. Even if you're going to | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
help and you want to help, you have to say will the help, will the help | :10:44. | :10:50. | |
cause more harm than good? Look at our situation, it is something we | :10:51. | :10:53. | |
are going to live with for the rest of our lives. My son made that | :10:54. | :10:58. | |
decision. He was young. I know he was just a human being. I am a human | :10:59. | :11:04. | |
being, I have made mistakes as well. I don't blame him for that for the | :11:05. | :11:12. | |
rest of his life, I ask dpod to forgive -- God to forgive. But | :11:13. | :11:21. | |
listening to a total stranger and not listening to his mum, who looked | :11:22. | :11:26. | |
after him and listen to my advice. He just left without even saying | :11:27. | :11:29. | |
goodbye. Without even telling me. So think about that. Are you that | :11:30. | :11:35. | |
courageous to put your parent through that. Do you not love your | :11:36. | :11:39. | |
family enough for you to save them from that agony and from the stigma | :11:40. | :11:45. | |
of you going to such a place. No one is saying don't help, there are | :11:46. | :11:49. | |
other ways to help. There are a lot of other waifs to contribute and | :11:50. | :11:55. | |
whether you are helping people or not, there should be no way that you | :11:56. | :11:59. | |
should cause harm to the innocent. I don't care. Can I ask you both how | :12:00. | :12:05. | |
you want the House of Commons to vote after this debate today? Close | :12:06. | :12:14. | |
air support has been supportive of the Kurdish people in liberating in | :12:15. | :12:24. | |
areas where they were oppressed by a none Syria army. It would help the | :12:25. | :12:32. | |
Kurds and the democratic force free up areas and cut the supply lines to | :12:33. | :12:37. | |
Raqqa and so fewer people would have to die in Raqqa. I think we should | :12:38. | :12:41. | |
do that. Britain are going to be responsible as far as they can be | :12:42. | :12:45. | |
whether we go in or not. The people of Raqqa will be bombed by the | :12:46. | :12:53. | |
Russians and by Assad and whoever, at least the British have, I have | :12:54. | :12:58. | |
strong faith they will try to minimise civilian casualties and we | :12:59. | :13:02. | |
also need to do that in conskrungs with looking -- conjunction at | :13:03. | :13:07. | |
looking at Turkey's role in bombing Kurdish people. You want a yes. Yes. | :13:08. | :13:12. | |
All the experts say is looking likely. What about you? For me, it | :13:13. | :13:21. | |
is definitely a no. Going to war has never been the solution. It will not | :13:22. | :13:24. | |
be the solution and will never be the solution. War is a lose, lose | :13:25. | :13:31. | |
situation. It is never bring good news. War is bad. And you know I am | :13:32. | :13:38. | |
confused that they're sitting voting to go and bomb, I ask myself, it is | :13:39. | :13:44. | |
like saying we are going to holiday, we are going four holiday, these are | :13:45. | :13:49. | |
people they are going to bomb. The 80% of the people that suffer in war | :13:50. | :13:56. | |
are the innocent civilians. And so the bomb cannot pick and choose. For | :13:57. | :14:06. | |
me, it is a total no and for me, I don't care which government Isis, | :14:07. | :14:13. | |
suicide bomber, whatever they call themselves, they all as equally | :14:14. | :14:17. | |
guilty of having innocent blood on their hands. So I don't care, as | :14:18. | :14:23. | |
long as the innocent have to pay for crime that they didn't commit I am | :14:24. | :14:27. | |
not in for it. I'm not supporting any group. Thank you both very much. | :14:28. | :14:35. | |
Do let us know how you wantior MP to vote and I will read your comments. | :14:36. | :14:42. | |
Coming up: Does labelling the calories, fat and sugar in packaged | :14:43. | :14:45. | |
foods go any way to tackling childhood obesity or are we still as | :14:46. | :14:48. | |
Now the main news. MPs will vote on whether to ors air strikes in Syria. | :14:49. | :15:10. | |
The Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond said the UK was already involved | :15:11. | :15:12. | |
in the fight against IS, whether we liked it or not. | :15:13. | :15:16. | |
The question is whether we will take the fight to them or wait here in | :15:17. | :15:21. | |
London until they bring the fight to us as they did to our French | :15:22. | :15:23. | |
colleagues in Paris. The Prime Minister is expected to | :15:24. | :15:26. | |
win a majority but Labour is demanding | :15:27. | :15:28. | |
an apology after he described some MPs who oppose action as " | :15:29. | :15:31. | |
a bunch of terrorist sympathisers". A senior Scotland Yard officer says | :15:32. | :15:36. | |
firearms police might have to "walk over casualties" to deal with | :15:37. | :15:40. | |
the threat in the event She was speaking after | :15:41. | :15:42. | |
a training exercise to test the way armed officers would deal with | :15:43. | :15:48. | |
an incident in a shopping centre. governing body, Lord Coe, will give | :15:49. | :15:53. | |
evidence to MPs investigating the sport's doping scandal this | :15:54. | :16:00. | |
afternoon. He'll be questioned over the IAAF's response to allegations | :16:01. | :16:02. | |
made by the Sunday Times in August. Now the sport. In cricket, the good | :16:03. | :16:18. | |
news continues for England and Wales. 2015 saw a return to form and | :16:19. | :16:27. | |
the year's been capped off by three players being named in the Test team | :16:28. | :16:36. | |
of year. One man who didn't return to form in 2015 is Tiger Woods, he | :16:37. | :16:43. | |
won 14 golf majors, but they seem a distant memory. He slipped to 4 | :16:44. | :16:47. | |
hundred in the world and he said there is no time table for a return | :16:48. | :16:53. | |
to golf after surgery on his back. He said he spends most of his time | :16:54. | :16:58. | |
playing video games. So he could be facing the end of one of sport's | :16:59. | :17:01. | |
greatest ever players. This almost brought a tear to my eye, here is a | :17:02. | :17:09. | |
moment that a snooker player missed a final ball to seal a first maximum | :17:10. | :17:18. | |
break and ?44,000. All of that and the League Cup goals coming up after | :17:19. | :17:19. | |
10. Thank you for your e-mails. George | :17:20. | :17:34. | |
says simply, do not bomb. This viewer says, I hope my MP in Bedford | :17:35. | :17:43. | |
boats for the air strikes. Dorothy says, I want the SNP to vote for air | :17:44. | :17:52. | |
strikes. France has asked Britain, how can any MP with a conscience | :17:53. | :18:01. | |
vote no? Dawn says, no bombs, absolutely not. The vote is | :18:02. | :18:06. | |
pointless. Cameron should offer a free vote and everyone should be | :18:07. | :18:11. | |
voting on the same footing. The bombers will be killing innocent | :18:12. | :18:17. | |
civilians, and Isil will have justification to attack the UK. | :18:18. | :18:22. | |
Thank you buoyed those, keep them coming in. You can tweak, e-mail, | :18:23. | :18:25. | |
text and the usual. his wife say they will give away 99% | :18:26. | :18:34. | |
of their shares in the company to good causes, as they announce the | :18:35. | :18:42. | |
birth of their daughter. They say they want to make the world | :18:43. | :18:51. | |
a better place for their daughter to grow up in. | :18:52. | :18:58. | |
Mr Zuckerberg made the announcement in an open letter to his daughter | :18:59. | :19:01. | |
With me now is entrepreneur and philanthropist Marcelle Speller. | :19:02. | :19:49. | |
She's put a lot of her wealth and time into charitable use | :19:50. | :19:52. | |
since the selling of her very successful website Holiday Rentals | :19:53. | :19:55. | |
and now runs a new organisation called Local Giving.com. | :19:56. | :20:02. | |
Hello. Hello. It is not just charities, it is private investments | :20:03. | :20:11. | |
and other nonprofit organisations, what do you think about their move? | :20:12. | :20:18. | |
It is brilliant. It is a great example to other people who have got | :20:19. | :20:25. | |
a lot of money who can start doing philanthropy and charity. Also | :20:26. | :20:30. | |
investments. You cannot spend ?30 billion overnight. You have to think | :20:31. | :20:33. | |
about your strategy about how you are going to do it. He has already | :20:34. | :20:39. | |
done a lot of thinking because he has mentioned the areas he is | :20:40. | :20:43. | |
interested in. If you make investments in companies that are | :20:44. | :20:51. | |
also forwarding your ambition, he will not be investing in tobacco or | :20:52. | :20:56. | |
arms, he will be investing in other entrepreneurs and his money will be | :20:57. | :20:59. | |
growing. That is fine, it is a great bit of news. He has been inspired by | :21:00. | :21:07. | |
the birth of his daughter, what inspired you? How much was it if you | :21:08. | :21:14. | |
do not mind me asking? It is hard to say, about 20 million. That depends | :21:15. | :21:21. | |
on the share price. Shares can go down as well as up. For me it was my | :21:22. | :21:28. | |
mother. I made this money quite late in my life. My mother was Dutch and | :21:29. | :21:34. | |
mother. I made this money quite late war and she spent the rest of her | :21:35. | :21:37. | |
life looking after people in her own way. That is why I think this is | :21:38. | :21:42. | |
wonderful he is doing this for his daughter. I went on a course after I | :21:43. | :21:47. | |
made my money and it was a group of about 15 people who wanted to be | :21:48. | :21:52. | |
strategic in their giving. The first night we got together and they said, | :21:53. | :21:58. | |
why are you doing this? 99% set my parents, my mother, my father. The | :21:59. | :22:03. | |
fact he is doing it for his child means he is educating the next | :22:04. | :22:09. | |
generation. That is where I got my philanthropy from. I think it is | :22:10. | :22:14. | |
great that this little baby is inspiring them to do the same. I do | :22:15. | :22:18. | |
not know you, we have never met before. When you wake up in the | :22:19. | :22:23. | |
morning do you amazing because of what you have done? Do you feel | :22:24. | :22:31. | |
morally superior to anyone else? I have had fun. I have had more fun | :22:32. | :22:36. | |
giving away money then making it. Trying to make it is not so much fun | :22:37. | :22:41. | |
because you do not know if you will be making it, looking back I also | :22:42. | :22:47. | |
thought, can I pay my mortgage? I have had such fun giving. I have | :22:48. | :22:55. | |
also used technology to harness my money. I set up local giving for | :22:56. | :23:00. | |
small, local charities, giving them the power big charities tab to fund | :23:01. | :23:09. | |
raise online, to get direct debits, and keep going. They are dependent | :23:10. | :23:13. | |
on grants and grounds are disappearing. I am using technology | :23:14. | :23:18. | |
to help other philanthropists give to charity and doing it in a very | :23:19. | :23:23. | |
cost-effective way. It is great that I have put together my knowledge and | :23:24. | :23:29. | |
my business experience and my money to do something that is a wonderful | :23:30. | :23:33. | |
legacy. It will go on for a long time and it makes me feel great. | :23:34. | :23:37. | |
Thank you very much for coming on the programme. Four men had been | :23:38. | :23:46. | |
arrested in Luton on suspicion of committing offences under the | :23:47. | :23:49. | |
terrorism act. The arrests were carried out in a joint operation. | :23:50. | :23:58. | |
The men, all in their 30s, were arrested on suspicion of being | :23:59. | :24:01. | |
involved in the commission, preparation and instigation of acts | :24:02. | :24:05. | |
of terrorism and they are in custody at the moment in London. In Luton | :24:06. | :24:10. | |
seven searches are being conducted at seven separate addresses and | :24:11. | :24:14. | |
mumble of vehicles are also being searched. It is part of an ongoing, | :24:15. | :24:21. | |
proactive investigation concerning individuals in the Luton area and is | :24:22. | :24:25. | |
not connected to the recent attacks in Paris. Four men arrested in Luton | :24:26. | :24:30. | |
this morning on suspicion of committing offences under the | :24:31. | :24:32. | |
Throughout the programme we're asking how do you want | :24:33. | :24:38. | |
We'll be hearing your thoughts on the whether Britain should | :24:39. | :24:45. | |
There are still many MPs who remain unconvinced of the need | :24:46. | :24:52. | |
for air strikes and one of their key concerns is whether | :24:53. | :24:55. | |
British military boots may, in the end, be needed on the ground. | :24:56. | :24:57. | |
Here's the former head of the armed forces: | :24:58. | :25:06. | |
The Foreign Secretary said it will not happen. Ultimately Colonel | :25:07. | :25:13. | |
Dannat is right, we can degrade Isil by air attacks and we can reduce | :25:14. | :25:19. | |
their ability to carry out plots and attacks against the West and that | :25:20. | :25:23. | |
has to be our first priority, to keep Britain safe, but in the long | :25:24. | :25:28. | |
run we want to see the organisation destroyed and for that to happen | :25:29. | :25:32. | |
there will need to be a ground assault on Raqqa. We are absolutely | :25:33. | :25:36. | |
clear that British forces will not be committed to ground combat in | :25:37. | :25:41. | |
Syria. That would be unhelpful and inappropriate. What we need to do is | :25:42. | :25:47. | |
pursued two tracks. A military track against Isil know to keep Britain | :25:48. | :25:52. | |
safe and to degrade the organisation, and a political tract | :25:53. | :25:55. | |
in the Vienna talks to end the Syrian Civil War, bring the | :25:56. | :26:00. | |
opposition forces that are fighting Assad alongside the Syrian army, so | :26:01. | :26:07. | |
that once Assad has gone, the Syrians, working together, can | :26:08. | :26:12. | |
reclaim their territory from occupation by Isil and can destroy | :26:13. | :26:15. | |
this evil organisation once and for all. David Cameron said that after | :26:16. | :26:24. | |
bomb it up to 70,000 moderate Syrian fighters would be available to fight | :26:25. | :26:26. | |
against ideas on the ground. There was no detail | :26:27. | :26:30. | |
on who the fighters are, where they're fighting, | :26:31. | :26:32. | |
and what sort of relationships these so-called moderate groups have | :26:33. | :26:34. | |
to IS, or even al-Qaeda. Here's some background on how IS | :26:35. | :26:37. | |
might be tackled on the ground, The Syrian situation is more | :26:38. | :27:28. | |
complicated, but there are some ground troops and other troops that | :27:29. | :27:32. | |
are able to take action against Isil. | :27:33. | :27:49. | |
The suggestion that there are 70,000 non-Islamist, moderate ground forces | :27:50. | :27:59. | |
I have to say is a revelation to me and I suspect most other members in | :28:00. | :28:04. | |
this house. The Prime Minister has talked about 70,000 Free Syrian Army | :28:05. | :28:08. | |
troops. How many of those are on the front line in Syria as opposed to | :28:09. | :28:12. | |
Syrian regime forces? We saw a map there | :28:13. | :28:34. | |
in Adam's film and it's worth having As you can see it's | :28:35. | :28:38. | |
an incredibly confusing picture - the beige colour shows areas | :28:39. | :28:48. | |
controlled by Islamic State. Then at the top | :28:49. | :28:55. | |
in pink are the Kurdish controlled groups - they're not included in | :28:56. | :29:00. | |
David Cameron's 70,000 figure To the west the pale blue areas are | :29:01. | :29:04. | |
still controlled by the regime of Bashar al Assad, | :29:05. | :29:20. | |
and to the north and south of those You fought with Kurdish fighters in | :29:21. | :29:42. | |
Iraq and Syria against I S. We have got a doctor who specialises in War | :29:43. | :29:47. | |
studies. In Manchester, Simon Turner was an RAF pilot and flew over the | :29:48. | :29:52. | |
no-fly zone is in Iraq in 1991 and also conducted armed missions. | :29:53. | :29:59. | |
How credible is this 70 thousand figure. The map is correct, the | :30:00. | :30:07. | |
Green Zones on the map have 70,000 men who have picked up weapons | :30:08. | :30:13. | |
against Assad and are not radical. But this is not an army, these are | :30:14. | :30:21. | |
70,000 armed men. They don't operate under one command and may not be | :30:22. | :30:25. | |
willing to move across Syria to where Isis is and they may not have | :30:26. | :30:32. | |
the ideological motivation to fight Isis in the way they fight Assad. | :30:33. | :30:37. | |
And they're fighting against president Assad at the moment. What | :30:38. | :30:43. | |
would be the motivation for them to change and fight Isis? Well, I would | :30:44. | :30:49. | |
say that it would depend on the location in which they would be | :30:50. | :30:54. | |
fighting. In some places they have fought some of the moderate groups | :30:55. | :30:59. | |
have fought with troops of Assad against Isis. It depends on | :31:00. | :31:06. | |
geography and the vested interested on the ground and we have to admit | :31:07. | :31:16. | |
most of groups have a priority to fight Assad and not Islamic State. | :31:17. | :31:24. | |
You went to fight there, is it your view after any air strikes, a decent | :31:25. | :31:31. | |
ground force is essential to defeat Isis? Absolutely. Air strikes only | :31:32. | :31:38. | |
go so far. We have hit individual targets, but it does p take ground. | :31:39. | :31:46. | |
So we need people on the ground and a YPG, a Syria significant force in | :31:47. | :31:50. | |
Syria are not included in the figures and it is crazy. Why? Well, | :31:51. | :31:58. | |
for a start, they have had the most success against Islamic State and | :31:59. | :32:03. | |
have taken most of land and they believe in is secular values and | :32:04. | :32:07. | |
democracy and freedom. They're the people we want to ally ourselves | :32:08. | :32:11. | |
with in the region and not including them in the figures is a poor thing | :32:12. | :32:18. | |
to do. Simon Turner, what is your view about how much RAF bombing | :32:19. | :32:23. | |
missions can cut off the head of the Isis snake as David Cameron put it? | :32:24. | :32:30. | |
Well obviously they can only do things, they're only as good as the | :32:31. | :32:34. | |
intelligence they're provided with. So frankly if on the ground we have | :32:35. | :32:40. | |
disparate forces and the intelligence is unreliable then the | :32:41. | :32:44. | |
targeting process will be unreliable. If we can get reliable | :32:45. | :32:50. | |
intelligence, they can target effectively. So how do you get that | :32:51. | :32:56. | |
intelligence? That is being supplied by ground forces who are potentially | :32:57. | :33:01. | |
disparate and communication will be difficult, and also the fact that we | :33:02. | :33:07. | |
have airborne assets which are gathering value, otherwise we | :33:08. | :33:09. | |
wouldn't be able to make the strikes that have been made. There are | :33:10. | :33:14. | |
numerous assets out there in the air that will gather intelligence and it | :33:15. | :33:19. | |
can be analysed real time and effectively. Is it inevitable that | :33:20. | :33:24. | |
innocent... Don't go away, we are still talking ing to you. It is OK | :33:25. | :33:32. | |
we are turning the lights on. Is it inevitable that innocent people will | :33:33. | :33:39. | |
be killed, irrespective of how the good the intelligence is. All we can | :33:40. | :33:46. | |
hope nor is an increasing military effort against Isis will decrease | :33:47. | :33:50. | |
the numbers killed than if we did nothing. I can't imagine that Isis | :33:51. | :33:58. | |
would not be using human as fields. Is there a way around that? There | :33:59. | :34:05. | |
is, working on a policy that unifies the 70,000 fighters and creates a | :34:06. | :34:11. | |
political process and the YPG works under a civil local administration | :34:12. | :34:16. | |
that manages the troops. If something similar is done on the | :34:17. | :34:19. | |
other side, that would be important. We need to protect the 70,000 from | :34:20. | :34:27. | |
the more radical groups on the ground that share logistic and | :34:28. | :34:31. | |
sometimes share trenches with them. We will talk about the political | :34:32. | :34:38. | |
sides later. But for I now thank you. Nor Norman Smith is at | :34:39. | :34:52. | |
Westminster. I wonder how much difference cushion is still around | :34:53. | :34:58. | |
the 70,000. I suspect it is Achilles heel in David Cameron's argument. | :34:59. | :35:03. | |
There is scepticism about who the forces are and whether they would | :35:04. | :35:07. | |
work together and would be interested in fighting Isis rather | :35:08. | :35:13. | |
than president Assad. Major, major doubts about that. You get the sense | :35:14. | :35:19. | |
actually that in the past 24 hours actually the opponents of air | :35:20. | :35:24. | |
strikes have just got a bit more sort of oomph behind them on the | :35:25. | :35:28. | |
argument and David Cameron's comments last night when at a | :35:29. | :35:35. | |
private meeting he dubbed opponents as terrorist sympathisers that has | :35:36. | :35:38. | |
backfired. The last element, and this is relevant on the Labour side, | :35:39. | :35:45. | |
there has been a onslaught on social media against prowar Labour MPs. One | :35:46. | :35:52. | |
Mike Gapes who is in hospital and seriously ill has received a torrent | :35:53. | :36:00. | |
of abuse. Another had a mob outside her pressure. Jeremy Corbyn's people | :36:01. | :36:03. | |
have said they think people should be respectful, but there are calls | :36:04. | :36:07. | |
for the party to expel these individuals from the Labour Party. | :36:08. | :36:11. | |
But let me mull some of that over with the shadow Defence Secretary | :36:12. | :36:15. | |
Maria Eagle. First the 70,000 figure. That is a problem for people | :36:16. | :36:19. | |
like you who believe we should take military action? I think the Prime | :36:20. | :36:25. | |
Minister has to convince the House today in rather better style than he | :36:26. | :36:29. | |
has so far about what he asserted on that. That is one of reasons why | :36:30. | :36:35. | |
colleagues on all sides of the House have come to the condition collusion | :36:36. | :36:41. | |
-- conclusion they cannot support the proposals. He has a chance today | :36:42. | :36:46. | |
to get his arguments lined up and convince people. It is | :36:47. | :36:52. | |
understandable why people are uneasy, the fear is at the end of | :36:53. | :36:56. | |
the day it could be British and western troops who have to go there. | :36:57. | :37:01. | |
I think these are some of the fears that those who say he has not made | :37:02. | :37:07. | |
the case have. Well he has the evidence and it is up to him to | :37:08. | :37:10. | |
convince people. He has a chance to do that. Let's talk about the Labour | :37:11. | :37:16. | |
side. You will be arguing for action. But I feeling is you're in | :37:17. | :37:22. | |
the minority in the Labour Party. Well, I approach this as all MPs do | :37:23. | :37:27. | |
with calm consideration and serious thought about what this will mean | :37:28. | :37:32. | |
for the country. We have an obligation to defend our citizens | :37:33. | :37:38. | |
and our way of life. The UN have asked those who are capable to take | :37:39. | :37:45. | |
all necessary measures to deal with Daesh and Isis. And I am convinced | :37:46. | :37:51. | |
that the threat from Isil to our people, both here and abroad is | :37:52. | :37:55. | |
rising, is significant and is directed from there. So I believe we | :37:56. | :37:59. | |
have an obligation to deal with that. Now, colleagues in the Labour | :38:00. | :38:04. | |
Party and across parties will come to a different view, but I say this, | :38:05. | :38:11. | |
this decision is not taken likely by any members of Parliament, one of | :38:12. | :38:16. | |
the most serious votes you can cast whether to put our armed services in | :38:17. | :38:21. | |
harm's way and nobody takes that decision likely -- lightly. It is | :38:22. | :38:28. | |
best taken in an atmosphere of calm consideration and mutual respect for | :38:29. | :38:33. | |
different positions and the way in which the Prime Minister demeaned | :38:34. | :38:37. | |
his office by saying what he said has not helped in that respect. | :38:38. | :38:44. | |
Thank you. It will be a passionate debate. David Cameron may be on | :38:45. | :38:49. | |
course to win it, but he still has a lot of difficult and searching | :38:50. | :38:53. | |
questions to answer. Thank you. Back with you, I know you're off to the | :38:54. | :38:56. | |
lobby now to talk to MPs. Calories, energy, salt, | :38:57. | :39:01. | |
fat and sugar. Knowing whether food is good or bad | :39:02. | :39:03. | |
for you should, you'd think, be fairly straightforward, but | :39:04. | :39:06. | |
obesity is soaring and all this week The way | :39:07. | :39:08. | |
our packaged food is labelled is a real battleground between health | :39:09. | :39:12. | |
campaigners and food manufacturers. Two years ago, | :39:13. | :39:15. | |
the government did a deal with industry to put colour coded | :39:16. | :39:18. | |
warnings on the front of packs. That voluntary agreement comes | :39:19. | :39:22. | |
into force in full this Christmas, but some manufacturers have been | :39:23. | :39:24. | |
using it for a while. So has it made any difference so far | :39:25. | :39:26. | |
or are we still as confused as ever? One medical condition will soon cost | :39:27. | :39:30. | |
us more than smoking, The country's most senior doctor has | :39:31. | :39:40. | |
warned that overweight is fast becoming the norm in British | :39:41. | :39:56. | |
society. So the question - for government, | :39:57. | :40:05. | |
for doctors, for the food industry, and for us - | :40:06. | :40:08. | |
how do we start to tackle what many think is the biggest threat to | :40:09. | :40:11. | |
public health of the 21st century? It takes an average | :40:12. | :40:18. | |
of 15 seconds for us to decide what Position, price, | :40:19. | :40:21. | |
even smell are important, but research shows it's often packaging | :40:22. | :40:28. | |
that is the crucial factor. At a flat in South London, | :40:29. | :40:39. | |
my four-year-old daughter is here, along with other children | :40:40. | :40:41. | |
and their parents, who've all agreed to | :40:42. | :40:46. | |
speak to us today. Anything with Frozen she will try | :40:47. | :40:49. | |
and go for, bright colours she likes to go for, anything with, like, | :40:50. | :40:52. | |
characters on it. It's about making a choice quickly | :40:53. | :40:58. | |
in the supermarket, so particularly when I've got children with me, | :40:59. | :41:01. | |
I need to do it really quickly, because my opportunity for choosing | :41:02. | :41:04. | |
is such a small window. Eating well can be a confusing | :41:05. | :41:08. | |
business - from next year, all foods will have to carry nutritional | :41:09. | :41:12. | |
information on the back of the pack. In this country, | :41:13. | :41:15. | |
most do that already, but the real Two years ago, the Government did | :41:16. | :41:18. | |
a deal with the food industry to This panel shows the amount of fat, | :41:19. | :41:25. | |
sugar and salt as a percent of the recommended daily amount | :41:26. | :41:32. | |
for an adult. It is coloured green, amber and red, | :41:33. | :41:35. | |
so has become known I much prefer | :41:36. | :41:38. | |
when I see the colours, because at a glance I will see how much | :41:39. | :41:42. | |
sugar or fat is in it, I don't mind if it's got sugar or fat in, I just | :41:43. | :41:47. | |
need to know so that I can compare I think it is easier to understand, | :41:48. | :41:51. | |
because obviously red looks like danger and so on, but I don't | :41:52. | :41:55. | |
really follow that, to be honest. Once again, | :41:56. | :41:58. | |
it's all in moderation... As long as it's in moderation, | :41:59. | :42:00. | |
it's not too bad. But to force companies to use | :42:01. | :42:04. | |
the traffic-light system would mean changing EU law in Brussels, | :42:05. | :42:07. | |
so this front-of-pack stuff is The big four supermarkets have now | :42:08. | :42:12. | |
all signed up for their own-label products, | :42:13. | :42:18. | |
but Iceland doesn't use the system, M doesn't use it for all of | :42:19. | :42:22. | |
its food range, and you'll struggle to find those warning colours on | :42:23. | :42:25. | |
many of the largest branded goods. So has that traffic-light | :42:26. | :42:28. | |
system really worked? Well, here on the table are | :42:29. | :42:32. | |
some well-known brands. This group over here all use | :42:33. | :42:36. | |
the traffic-light system in full. That includes Coke, Pepsi, | :42:37. | :42:38. | |
Dolmio and other well-known This middle group just don't use | :42:39. | :42:41. | |
the system whatsoever, brands like Cadbury, many Mars | :42:42. | :42:47. | |
products, and Heinz as well. Then you have this third group over | :42:48. | :42:51. | |
here, and it is Now, they do put all the data, | :42:52. | :42:54. | |
all the numbers on the front of the pack, but they don't use | :42:55. | :42:59. | |
the colour coding, so you can end up in a situation where you have | :43:00. | :43:03. | |
competing products, here two This one here shows up amber | :43:04. | :43:05. | |
and red for fat and sugar, this one here doesn't whatsoever, | :43:06. | :43:12. | |
even though the ingredients are We asked some of those firms | :43:13. | :43:16. | |
why they refused to sign up. Mars said it does use it | :43:17. | :43:20. | |
on products sold only in the UK. Cadbury says it complies with | :43:21. | :43:23. | |
European legislative requirements. Heinz said using it on foods like | :43:24. | :43:27. | |
sauces, where the serving size is And McVities said it does not | :43:28. | :43:30. | |
believe colour coding based on 100 grams, or seven digestive | :43:31. | :43:38. | |
biscuits, is helpful. Isn't part of the problem that | :43:39. | :43:42. | |
many of your members just refuse Well, the traffic-light labelling | :43:43. | :43:45. | |
system itself isn't universally acknowledged as the best way | :43:46. | :43:51. | |
of doing it. 90% of our members have front | :43:52. | :43:53. | |
and back labelling that covers that information, but some of them choose | :43:54. | :43:57. | |
to do it in different ways. And one of the reasons they | :43:58. | :44:00. | |
might do it in different ways is they are producing products here | :44:01. | :44:03. | |
that are to be sold in Europe. The trouble is, | :44:04. | :44:06. | |
there are so many different views amongst shoppers and consumers | :44:07. | :44:08. | |
about what they actually want. All this can get even more complex | :44:09. | :44:11. | |
when it comes to foods which are sold with | :44:12. | :44:15. | |
an implicit health benefit. The market for cereal bars is now | :44:16. | :44:19. | |
worth around ?500 million a year and growing fast as we all have | :44:20. | :44:24. | |
less time for breakfast. These are often sold next to muesli | :44:25. | :44:27. | |
and cornflakes in the cereal aisle, but campaigners say the level | :44:28. | :44:35. | |
of sugars in some of these products means they should be treated in the | :44:36. | :44:37. | |
same way as sweets or chocolate. Is it possible to compare | :44:38. | :44:40. | |
these to confectionery? It's interesting you say that, | :44:41. | :44:42. | |
because they are more When we look at the school-food | :44:43. | :44:49. | |
standards that have been implemented over the last year or so in schools, | :44:50. | :44:52. | |
it actually categorises all these products as confectionery, so if say | :44:53. | :44:55. | |
cereal bars are confectionery, they are not allowed to be supplied | :44:56. | :44:58. | |
in schools to children at all. So that kind of already gives you | :44:59. | :45:03. | |
an indication, actually, these product are not as healthy | :45:04. | :45:05. | |
as you might think they are. But take this whole table | :45:06. | :45:08. | |
of cereal bars. Some of the others do have | :45:09. | :45:15. | |
numbers on the front, but none of If we take a product like this, if | :45:16. | :45:23. | |
you were to colour code that, where If we were to colour code it for | :45:24. | :45:27. | |
sugars, it would be red, and the reason for that, the colour coding | :45:28. | :45:37. | |
system works on 100 grams, and then if we turn it around, for it to get | :45:38. | :45:40. | |
a colour code of red, it would have to be over 22.5 grams of sugar, and | :45:41. | :45:44. | |
this has 28, so definitely a red. It's by far, I believe, | :45:45. | :45:50. | |
one of the best systems around the world - if it is | :45:51. | :45:54. | |
implemented consistently across all What we would like to see is for all | :45:55. | :45:57. | |
of them to have front-of-pack colour-coded labelling, | :45:58. | :46:05. | |
and therefore allow the consumer to make an informed choice at a glance | :46:06. | :46:09. | |
very quickly when they are shopping, Again, we asked the makers | :46:10. | :46:15. | |
of these products for a response. Kellogg's made the point | :46:16. | :46:18. | |
its snack bars are much smaller than 100 grams in size | :46:19. | :46:21. | |
and said all its food is clearly The makers of Go Ahead said | :46:22. | :46:24. | |
a similar thing - offering clear information per biscuit is | :46:25. | :46:31. | |
the best way to give customers The makers of Nature Valley referred | :46:32. | :46:33. | |
us to the industry trade body, which said shoppers need to read | :46:34. | :46:38. | |
the label to understand how these Confusion still reigns, though, | :46:39. | :46:43. | |
with different systems, different Next year, | :46:44. | :46:47. | |
we understand the industry trade body will make a fresh push to get | :46:48. | :46:53. | |
its members to sign up with Whether those members agree this | :46:54. | :46:56. | |
time around remains to be seen. You can watch all of all our series | :46:57. | :47:06. | |
on Sugar films by our reporter and later we'll be talking to | :47:07. | :47:09. | |
Public Health England who are tasked with protecting and improving | :47:10. | :47:14. | |
the nation's health and wellbeing. It has been a mild start to | :47:15. | :47:42. | |
December. It will be much brighter in the afternoon in the South East, | :47:43. | :47:46. | |
but that rain will linger in north east England and Wales. Back in the | :47:47. | :47:52. | |
south east there is a fair bit of sunshine around. It is quite mild at | :47:53. | :48:01. | |
12, 13 or 14. Further north temperatures will fall this | :48:02. | :48:03. | |
afternoon and they will fall even further overnight. Meanwhile, this | :48:04. | :48:10. | |
band of rain keeps things soggy over northern England and Wales, but it | :48:11. | :48:19. | |
keeps things milder in the South. -5 is possible in the Scottish glens | :48:20. | :48:26. | |
tonight. It will be cold, but there will be sunshine. This area of rain | :48:27. | :48:30. | |
will not give up and it potentially could bring problems. The south and | :48:31. | :48:38. | |
East is dry, and there will be further spells of wet and windy | :48:39. | :48:40. | |
weather to come into the weekend. As MPs prepared to vote on air | :48:41. | :48:53. | |
strikes in Syria, a mother whose son died in the conflict tells us why | :48:54. | :49:00. | |
there is so much at stake. A suicide bomber, whatever they call | :49:01. | :49:06. | |
themselves, they are all as equally guilty of having innocent blood on | :49:07. | :49:14. | |
their hands. We want you to tell us what you want your MP to do in | :49:15. | :49:18. | |
that, and spoke tonight. A judge has ruled that a 50-year-old woman has | :49:19. | :49:26. | |
ruled that a woman can refuse to receive dialysis treatment because | :49:27. | :49:28. | |
she is worried about growing old. MPs will vote later on whether to | :49:29. | :49:31. | |
authorise UK air strikes against The Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond | :49:32. | :49:37. | |
said the UK was already involved in the fight against IS, | :49:38. | :49:41. | |
whether we liked it or not. The question now is whether we are | :49:42. | :49:47. | |
going to take the fight to them in their HQ or whether we are going to | :49:48. | :49:51. | |
wait here in London until they bring the fight to us, as they did to our | :49:52. | :49:54. | |
French colleagues in Paris. The Prime Minister is expected to | :49:55. | :49:58. | |
win a majority in favour But Labour is demanding | :49:59. | :50:00. | |
an apology after he described some MPs who oppose action as "a bunch | :50:01. | :50:03. | |
of terrorist sympathisers". Four men in their 30s have been | :50:04. | :50:23. | |
arrested in Luton on suspicion of preparing to terror attack. It is an | :50:24. | :50:27. | |
ongoing investigation and is not linked to the Paris terror attacks. | :50:28. | :50:34. | |
A judge has ruled that a woman is right to have refused the dialysis | :50:35. | :50:39. | |
treatment she needs to receive. She felt she wanted to die and had lost | :50:40. | :50:43. | |
her sparkle and did not want to get old. More on that after 10:30am this | :50:44. | :50:46. | |
morning. governing body, Lord Coe, will give | :50:47. | :50:48. | |
evidence to MPs investigating the sport's doping scandal this | :50:49. | :50:52. | |
afternoon. He'll be questioned over the IAAF's response to allegations | :50:53. | :50:55. | |
made by the Sunday Times in August. his wife say they will give away 99% | :50:56. | :50:58. | |
of their shares in the company to good causes, as they announce the | :50:59. | :51:03. | |
birth of their daughter. They say they want to make the world | :51:04. | :51:07. | |
a better place for their daughter to Now it is time for the sport. It may | :51:08. | :51:21. | |
feel as though England's cricket team has had a mixed season, but | :51:22. | :51:25. | |
Alastair Cook has been named as the captain of the ICC team of the year. | :51:26. | :51:33. | |
He is the current leading test run scorer in 2015 and he skippered | :51:34. | :51:38. | |
England to victory in the Ashes. The site includes Stuart Broad and Joe | :51:39. | :51:42. | |
Root. Joe Root is the sole Englishman in the side, but as the | :51:43. | :51:53. | |
12th man. All 3pm rare league sides in action last night emerged | :51:54. | :51:55. | |
unscathed against championship opposition. Manchester City beat | :51:56. | :52:07. | |
Hull 4-1. Every beat Middlesborough 2-0. The young Spaniard scored this | :52:08. | :52:20. | |
goal. The turbulent times of the former number one golfer Tiger Woods | :52:21. | :52:26. | |
have been documented, but now he says he has nothing to look forward | :52:27. | :52:32. | |
to as he recovers from surgery. He has had two back operations in the | :52:33. | :52:36. | |
last 18 months to reduce trapped nerve. There is no timetable for | :52:37. | :52:42. | |
this. That has been the hardest mindset adjustment. Where is the | :52:43. | :52:49. | |
light at the end of the panel? I do not know. I have had to reset the | :52:50. | :52:52. | |
clock each and every day and I have said, this is a new day, let's take | :52:53. | :52:58. | |
it for what it is. I listen to my surgeon and my physios and I take it | :52:59. | :53:04. | |
day by day. Imagine you are set for the ultimate grandstand moment in | :53:05. | :53:09. | |
snooker, a 147 break, and you are standing over the final black. For | :53:10. | :53:19. | |
the maximum and ?44,000. Oh, no! Would you believe it? The ?44,000 | :53:20. | :53:31. | |
bonus which have been silver lining as he lost the game eventually. He | :53:32. | :53:37. | |
also said he was not aware of the cash prize. So close, but so far. | :53:38. | :53:46. | |
He did it again too quickly. Can we see it again? I thought it was too | :53:47. | :53:51. | |
fast. Usually when you are on the final | :53:52. | :54:05. | |
black after 147 you are in your group. I am reading so many e-mails | :54:06. | :54:25. | |
about the boat in Syria. Polly says, I want our government to target and | :54:26. | :54:30. | |
destroy IS by every means we have, short of putting our troops at | :54:31. | :54:36. | |
risk. Tony on twitter, regrettably there is no alternative if we want | :54:37. | :54:41. | |
to protect our long-term security. John says, I do not think the case | :54:42. | :54:45. | |
has been made and I have asked my MP to vote against. KR on Twitter, do | :54:46. | :54:52. | |
not bomb Syria, or innocence will be killed. Think of your children, Mr | :54:53. | :54:59. | |
Cameron, and then push the button. Kim says, I want my MP to vote a | :55:00. | :55:06. | |
definite no. It will create more problems, including more refugees. | :55:07. | :55:11. | |
Innocence will be killed and it will not read the work of terrorists. In | :55:12. | :55:15. | |
fact, it may even inspire more people to become one. As a Syrian | :55:16. | :55:20. | |
woman said earlier, dealing with the Assad regime first is at the heart | :55:21. | :55:25. | |
of it all, not for getting the odd and the money. | :55:26. | :55:35. | |
So the Prime Minister says that air strikes would be an act | :55:36. | :55:40. | |
of self-defence, that Britain is already a target | :55:41. | :55:42. | |
for IS terrorists - look at what happened to British tourists | :55:43. | :55:45. | |
And that France, one of our main allies, has asked for our help. | :55:46. | :55:49. | |
But, David Cameron says he's not just looking | :55:50. | :55:51. | |
Britain will also step up efforts in helping secure peace in the | :55:52. | :55:56. | |
country, with the aim of free and fair elections in 18 months time. | :55:57. | :55:59. | |
Critics say the peace process should take | :56:00. | :56:01. | |
priority and that military action makes us more of a terror target. | :56:02. | :56:04. | |
But when air strikes have the potential to cause | :56:05. | :56:08. | |
so much damage, what steps need to be taken to ensure the country can | :56:09. | :56:11. | |
It is imperative to accelerate all diplomatic efforts to end the war. | :56:12. | :56:49. | |
Humanitarian access must be assured through out the territory of Syria. | :56:50. | :57:26. | |
Assad is the figurehead, he is the head of the regime. Take him out, | :57:27. | :57:30. | |
but he is still left with an opportunity to rebuild their | :57:31. | :57:42. | |
country? We are wasting our time. Let's look more closely now | :57:43. | :57:56. | |
at the humanitarian and diplomatic efforts which the PM says are just | :57:57. | :57:59. | |
as important as military action. In terms | :58:00. | :58:02. | |
of diplomacy that effectively revolves around talks in Vienna | :58:03. | :58:03. | |
involving countries like Iran, Russia, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, the | :58:04. | :58:05. | |
US, France, the UK but not Syria. Professor Nadia Al-Ali is | :58:06. | :58:08. | |
a specialist in the Middle East and Women's Studies from | :58:09. | :58:11. | |
SOAS London University. Matthew Morris is | :58:12. | :58:12. | |
from the International Committee In Salford is Yasmine Nulahwee | :58:13. | :58:14. | |
from Rethink Rebuild, a Syrian The talks in Vienna are about trying | :58:15. | :58:20. | |
to establish firstly a ceasefire between President Assad's army | :58:21. | :58:26. | |
and rebel fighters, a transitional government in place within six | :58:27. | :58:29. | |
months before securing a transition to an inclusive government in Syria | :58:30. | :58:32. | |
that represents everyone through free and fair elections | :58:33. | :58:35. | |
in 18 months. I do not think so. First of all, I | :58:36. | :58:53. | |
should say lots of people were not sitting around that table. Women | :58:54. | :58:59. | |
were not sitting around that table. Did you say women? Yes, where were | :59:00. | :59:07. | |
the Syrian women? There were no Syrians. There were no Syrians | :59:08. | :59:13. | |
either, so he is involved in these peace talks? Right now we have the | :59:14. | :59:22. | |
only on the ground troops who are fighting Isil, who are Kurds. They | :59:23. | :59:26. | |
are not involved in these negotiations either. They are not | :59:27. | :59:33. | |
supported right now. If anything, Western governments, including this | :59:34. | :59:36. | |
country, as Turkey is attacking the Kurds. This whole thing does not | :59:37. | :59:44. | |
make sense. We know that military intervention without a close look at | :59:45. | :59:48. | |
what is happening on the ground will create much more chaos and violence. | :59:49. | :59:55. | |
Even though there is a military track as David Cameron would like | :59:56. | :00:00. | |
there to be, there is a political and diplomatic track, David Cameron | :00:01. | :00:05. | |
talks about the humanitarian track. You say what is missing is an | :00:06. | :00:08. | |
immediate plan for rebuilding on the ground? What is missing is stopping | :00:09. | :00:16. | |
the double standards and hypocrisy and support the people fighting | :00:17. | :00:22. | |
Isil, the Kurds. Second is to be included in the peace talks and | :00:23. | :00:25. | |
include the Syrian opposition and Syrian women. Syrian women are | :00:26. | :00:31. | |
organised inside the country. That cannot be sustainable peace if women | :00:32. | :00:32. | |
are not involved. What do you think about the peace | :00:33. | :00:45. | |
talks and whether they can work? In looking at the past four or five | :00:46. | :00:49. | |
years of the conflict, the only time that talks have worked is in 2013 | :00:50. | :00:55. | |
when we backed up the talks with the threat of military force. Assad has | :00:56. | :01:01. | |
shown he will not uphold negotiations and we had numerous | :01:02. | :01:05. | |
failed diplomatic efforts. I think that we are looking at the wrong | :01:06. | :01:10. | |
picture, we are asking the wrong questions and saying we want to vote | :01:11. | :01:20. | |
for air strikes against Isis. What are we doing about Assad. What the | :01:21. | :01:24. | |
Prime Minister might say is we are going to work through over months to | :01:25. | :01:28. | |
come up with free and fair elections. Well again negotiations | :01:29. | :01:34. | |
in Syria have never succeeded if they were not backed by a credible | :01:35. | :01:39. | |
threat of force. There is a credible threat of force and it may be | :01:40. | :01:45. | |
extended if MPs vote here tonight. Not against the primary driver of | :01:46. | :01:49. | |
the crisis. I understand against Assad. If we don't assess that | :01:50. | :01:56. | |
threat we are not in a position to assess the threat of Isis. The | :01:57. | :01:59. | |
Americans have been involved in the campaign for a year and what success | :02:00. | :02:05. | |
have we seen? Nothing. Isis has grown in Syria. Can we re-evaluate | :02:06. | :02:10. | |
our strategy and think of something that will work. Matthew Morris, the | :02:11. | :02:19. | |
humanitarian side, we know 250,000 Syrians have already died in this | :02:20. | :02:24. | |
civil war in the last four or five years, how does Britain joining in | :02:25. | :02:30. | |
the bombing in Syria help the humanitarian crisis? Well, at the | :02:31. | :02:38. | |
ICRC we work in a confidential way to talk to groups about the impact | :02:39. | :02:42. | |
of the conduct of their hostilities. So that is something we would do | :02:43. | :02:48. | |
behind the doors. I was on the border between Syria and Jordan and | :02:49. | :02:53. | |
speaking to people fleeing a wide array of area and and people who had | :02:54. | :02:58. | |
lost family members and homes, they had limited access to food and water | :02:59. | :03:02. | |
and shelter and they were really in desperate need and then if you | :03:03. | :03:06. | |
multiply what they were saying to other villages and towns and regions | :03:07. | :03:14. | |
and then add in that this is such a complicated and ever changing | :03:15. | :03:18. | |
conflict, you have a come Police Kated -- complicated situation. Any | :03:19. | :03:23. | |
civilian in any conflict zone will be worried about where the next bomb | :03:24. | :03:32. | |
may come from. Some of the figures are staggering, eight million people | :03:33. | :03:40. | |
have been displaced. Four million perhaps have left and are living in | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
other continue Rhys. We have the complicated situation of the people | :03:46. | :03:49. | |
moving to Europe. The situation is very bleak. Can I come in here? I | :03:50. | :04:00. | |
agree with Jasmine, most of the people are fleeing, because of the | :04:01. | :04:04. | |
Assad regime. That doesn't in any way make Isis any less of a threat. | :04:05. | :04:10. | |
But Isis doesn't just exist in Syria, but in Iraq, and here and we | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
need to think more carefully. What will happen after the bombing of | :04:16. | :04:21. | |
Raqqa is we are going to radicalise more people in Syria, because | :04:22. | :04:26. | |
innocent civilians will be killed. Isis leaders will move to other | :04:27. | :04:31. | |
places like Mosul, while the Assad regime will be stronger. But not if | :04:32. | :04:35. | |
as David Cameron puts it the head of snake is cut off, they will be dead. | :04:36. | :04:41. | |
No, there is no head of the snake. It is an animal, you cut one head | :04:42. | :04:47. | |
and ten other heads come. It is Medusa. Can I ask you, what you | :04:48. | :04:56. | |
think of the Prime Minister's main argument which is this would be an | :04:57. | :05:00. | |
act of self-defence, Isis have already brought the fight to Britain | :05:01. | :05:07. | |
and this is about us protecting our citizens. We have to realise that | :05:08. | :05:13. | |
Isis and Assad have a very close relationship with each other and | :05:14. | :05:18. | |
what we say of Syrians is they're two sides of the same coin. We | :05:19. | :05:22. | |
couldn't be cutting off the head of the snake. What would happen in | :05:23. | :05:30. | |
Syria is let's say we could get rid of Isis the conditions are such, | :05:31. | :05:37. | |
because the ass jad regime continues -- Assad continues to cause | :05:38. | :05:40. | |
destruction, the conditions are such that on the ground we would have the | :05:41. | :05:44. | |
emergence of another radicalised group. Because that is what the | :05:45. | :05:47. | |
situation is like. We need to look at the root cause of the | :05:48. | :05:52. | |
radicalisation and what is causing it and that is the air attacks by | :05:53. | :05:57. | |
the Assad regime. Unless we address those we cannot address the threat | :05:58. | :06:05. | |
posed by Isis. Matthew, what is your main concern now as British voters | :06:06. | :06:11. | |
await to see what MPs will do? Obviously our concern is that | :06:12. | :06:15. | |
international humanitarian law, the laws of war are respected, there are | :06:16. | :06:22. | |
three key pillars to that in any conflict. There has to be | :06:23. | :06:28. | |
distinction between civilian objects and military objects and combatants. | :06:29. | :06:33. | |
Easier said than done? Yes we have seen in recent years that it is very | :06:34. | :06:38. | |
much easier said than done. But it has to be said and it has to be that | :06:39. | :06:44. | |
we make this call that humanitarian law is respected. There has to be | :06:45. | :06:49. | |
all precautions have to be taken when ever a military strike is | :06:50. | :06:55. | |
conducted, that civilians and medical facilities are protected. | :06:56. | :07:02. | |
Thank you all very much. Thank you for all your comments. This viewer | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
said, I want my MP to vote against air strikes. I have asked him how he | :07:07. | :07:12. | |
is voting, but he has not rely mid. John said I have asked my MP to vote | :07:13. | :07:19. | |
against the bombing. One viewer said no to sending the RAF. Page said I | :07:20. | :07:25. | |
want to know who Jeremy Corbyn wants us to talk to. Would he talk to Isis | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
and give them their own state. What if that was not enough? And Karen | :07:30. | :07:34. | |
said, I want my MP to vote against air strikes, because they're not a | :07:35. | :07:37. | |
solution. No more killing. Thank you for those. | :07:38. | :07:41. | |
Can you tell how much sugar you're consuming by looking | :07:42. | :07:44. | |
at food packaging - or do the labels that are meant to help | :07:45. | :07:47. | |
You can watch the entire series on sugar on our Facebook page. Now a | :07:48. | :08:06. | |
story. A judge has ruled that | :08:07. | :08:08. | |
a 50-year-old woman has the mental capacity, and the right, | :08:09. | :08:10. | |
to refuse the kidney dialysis Our legal eagle Clive | :08:11. | :08:13. | |
Coleman is here. Tell us about this case. It is a sad | :08:14. | :08:23. | |
and extraordinary case. It doesn't change the law, but sad in the sense | :08:24. | :08:28. | |
that this is a woman who has led an extraordinary high life. She has had | :08:29. | :08:35. | |
a life revolving around her husbands, four husband, lover, | :08:36. | :08:39. | |
possessions and live gt life which she calls a life of sparkle. Sadly, | :08:40. | :08:45. | |
she tried to take her own life and did that by consuming pain killers | :08:46. | :08:49. | |
washed down with champagne. She is now in a position where she needs | :08:50. | :08:54. | |
life preserving kidney dialysis to survive. But she has made it clear | :08:55. | :08:58. | |
she doesn't want to survive. She doesn't want to live a life where | :08:59. | :09:04. | |
she has lost her sparkle and she is old. She has suffered financial | :09:05. | :09:08. | |
problems, she will be poor and living in a council flat and ugly. | :09:09. | :09:14. | |
She has set a huge store by her looks. The court of protection had | :09:15. | :09:20. | |
to decide whether she had the mental capacity to to make a decision. I | :09:21. | :09:26. | |
think the hospital were saying she didn't have the mental capacity? Yes | :09:27. | :09:29. | |
the trust said she didn't have the capacity and she had a personality | :09:30. | :09:37. | |
disorder. A history yonic personality disorder and was not | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
able to weigh up the information. The The judge heard from | :09:43. | :09:46. | |
psychiatrists and from the woman's daughters who have made it clear | :09:47. | :09:49. | |
that they have spoken to their mother and their mother herself has | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
made it clear she does not want to continue with her life if she can't | :09:55. | :10:02. | |
live this life of sparkle. It is not about assisting dying or a doctor | :10:03. | :10:09. | |
taking a positive step to assist to die. We all have have the right to | :10:10. | :10:15. | |
refuse medical treatment, even if some people regard it as crazy, if | :10:16. | :10:20. | |
we have mental capacity and make that decision based on our belief | :10:21. | :10:24. | |
system and in this case a materialistic one, we are entitled | :10:25. | :10:28. | |
to do that. And in in case the judge on balance having heard the evidence | :10:29. | :10:33. | |
listened to the daughters decided the woman does have the capacity. | :10:34. | :10:39. | |
Who are we to judge on her reasons? She is of sound mind. Not of sound | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
body and she wants to make that decision and the judge said she has | :10:44. | :10:46. | |
the right to make that decision? Yes he makes the point that a lot of | :10:47. | :10:51. | |
people will find this decision a very difficult one and may regard | :10:52. | :10:57. | |
her as foolish, but that is her belief. And another example f a | :10:58. | :11:07. | |
Jehovah's witness had mental capacity, they would be entitled to | :11:08. | :11:11. | |
refuse a blood transfusion. That is the law. If you have mental capacity | :11:12. | :11:15. | |
you are entitled to refuse treatment. Even if the treatment | :11:16. | :11:17. | |
will keep you alive. Thank you. We have been asking how you want | :11:18. | :11:31. | |
your MP to vote in the debate that starts? S in just over an hour, the | :11:32. | :11:43. | |
vote at 10 o'clock tonight on air strikes. It is all the commentators, | :11:44. | :11:50. | |
all the experts say it is library that David Cameron will get a | :11:51. | :11:54. | |
majority in favour of extending air strikes from Iraq to Syria. Thank | :11:55. | :11:59. | |
you for your comments. We have been asking you how you would like your | :12:00. | :12:05. | |
MP to vote. One said, no air strikes, we have contributed to the | :12:06. | :12:08. | |
present situation. When you're in a hole stop digging. Simon said, air | :12:09. | :12:14. | |
strikes are not the answer, Isis need to have their funding stopped | :12:15. | :12:22. | |
by stopping black market oil. Bombing will kill innocent people | :12:23. | :12:25. | |
and fuel more hatred towards the west that. Debate starts at half 11 | :12:26. | :12:33. | |
and you can watch it on the BBC News channel. Norman Smith in the House | :12:34. | :12:40. | |
of Commons where all the MPs are beginning to arrive. Trending on | :12:41. | :12:46. | |
Twitter is the hashtag, terrorist sympathiser. Sorry, I couldn't read | :12:47. | :12:54. | |
my own writing! That is to do with comments David Cameron made about | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
Jeremy Corbyn and others. Huge backlash against that. These were | :13:00. | :13:03. | |
remarks that David Cameron made at a private meeting of Tory MPs, the | :13:04. | :13:10. | |
1922 committee, where he dubbed the opponents terrorist sympathisers. | :13:11. | :13:18. | |
That has infuriated Labour MPs, particularly those who were going to | :13:19. | :13:24. | |
back David Cameron. John Prescott said, for our Prime Minister to call | :13:25. | :13:29. | |
those who oppose air strikes terrorist sympathiser show what is a | :13:30. | :13:35. | |
shallow opportunist he is. And Lucy Powell said, David Cameron calling | :13:36. | :13:41. | |
those opposed terrorist sympathisers is an appalling comment. John Mann | :13:42. | :13:49. | |
said he calls is sympathiser, I call him a thick, ignore rant Flashman. | :13:50. | :13:58. | |
There is a huge backlash and talking to those around David Cameron, you | :13:59. | :14:05. | |
could hear them... They know it is a big plunder. David Cameron has -- | :14:06. | :14:12. | |
blunder. David Cameron has sought to be reasoned and measured to build a | :14:13. | :14:15. | |
consensus and at the last minute before the debate is about to start | :14:16. | :14:20. | |
he comes out and brands opponents terrorist sympathisers. There is no | :14:21. | :14:24. | |
doubt that will reduce his majority and mean many of those Labour MPs | :14:25. | :14:30. | |
who think I'm going to defy my leader and I will back David | :14:31. | :14:36. | |
Cameron, are thinking, no way. If he is calling us terrorist | :14:37. | :14:42. | |
sympathisers, forget it. That is interesting you say those comments | :14:43. | :14:46. | |
could reduce David Cameron's majority, but only reduce it, IE he | :14:47. | :14:55. | |
is still going to win. But if he gets a small majority, it matters, | :14:56. | :14:59. | |
if things get difficult in Syria and start to go wrong, then he does not | :15:00. | :15:04. | |
have a solid base of Parliamentary support. In other words his backing | :15:05. | :15:12. | |
is much more fragile. So he needs to get as big a support as he can, so | :15:13. | :15:17. | |
if things get difficult and if war they do, he can rely on solid | :15:18. | :15:22. | |
Parliamentary support. He needs to get a sizeable win tonight. He | :15:23. | :15:27. | |
cannot afford to a 20 or 30 majority. Thank you. More from | :15:28. | :15:36. | |
Norman. Now we are going to talk to some of you live about how you want | :15:37. | :15:43. | |
your MP to vote. We will go to constituents around the country. And | :15:44. | :15:47. | |
should the food industry be forced to be clearer about how much sugar | :15:48. | :15:51. | |
there is in your food? MPs will vote later on whether to | :15:52. | :15:57. | |
authorise UK air strikes against But some Labour MPs are asking him | :15:58. | :16:28. | |
to apologise after he described those who opposed action as | :16:29. | :16:29. | |
terrorist sympathisers. Four men | :16:30. | :16:32. | |
in their 30s have been arrested in Luton on suspicion of committing | :16:33. | :16:33. | |
offences under the Terrorism Act. Seven properties in the town | :16:34. | :16:36. | |
and a number Detectives say it's part | :16:37. | :16:38. | |
of an ongoing investigation, and The head | :16:39. | :16:41. | |
of athletics' world governing body, Lord Coe, will give evidence to MPs | :16:42. | :16:46. | |
investigating allegations of doping The IAAF president is also likely to | :16:47. | :16:49. | |
face questions about his former association with | :16:50. | :16:52. | |
the sportswear giant, Nike. They say they will get away 99% of | :16:53. | :17:06. | |
the show is in that company to good causes. They want to make the world | :17:07. | :17:12. | |
a safer place for their daughter Max to grow up in. | :17:13. | :17:13. | |
England's Alastair Cook is named as captain of the ICC's Test Team | :17:14. | :17:17. | |
Cook led England to victory in the Ashes and he's the current | :17:18. | :17:21. | |
There are no English players in the starting one-day eleven. | :17:22. | :17:26. | |
Gerard Deulofeu scores one and sets up the other as Everton | :17:27. | :17:28. | |
beat Middlesbrough in the League Cup quarter-finals. | :17:29. | :17:30. | |
Manchester City and Stoke are also through. | :17:31. | :17:33. | |
Tiger Woods says he has nothing to look forward to and has no idea when | :17:34. | :17:36. | |
The former world number one has had two back operations - he's now 400th | :17:37. | :17:41. | |
in the rankings and says there's no light at the end of the tunnel. | :17:42. | :17:46. | |
And there's agony for Thailand's Tepchaiah Un-Nooh as he fluffs the | :17:47. | :17:50. | |
final black to miss out on a maximum 147 break and a ?44,000 bonus. | :17:51. | :18:05. | |
All this week we're looking at the best ways of tackling | :18:06. | :18:07. | |
childhood obesity and cutting the sugar content in what we eat. | :18:08. | :18:10. | |
The way our packaged food is labelled is | :18:11. | :18:12. | |
a real battleground between health campaigners and food manufacturers. | :18:13. | :18:15. | |
Two years ago the government did a deal with industry to put colour | :18:16. | :18:18. | |
coded warnings on the front of packs. | :18:19. | :18:20. | |
That voluntary agreement comes into force in full this Christmas - | :18:21. | :18:23. | |
though many manufacturers have been doing it for a while. | :18:24. | :18:26. | |
So has it made any difference or so far are we still as confused | :18:27. | :18:29. | |
One medical condition will soon cost us more than smoking, | :18:30. | :18:39. | |
It takes an for us to decide what to pick on the | :18:40. | :18:48. | |
shelf. Position, price and smell is important, but research shows it is | :18:49. | :18:51. | |
often packaging that is the crucial factor. At a flat in South London my | :18:52. | :18:59. | |
four-year-old daughter is here along with other children and their | :19:00. | :19:02. | |
parents who all agree to speak to us today. Anything with frozen she will | :19:03. | :19:10. | |
go for. Bright colours she goes for. Anything with characters on it. It | :19:11. | :19:17. | |
is making the choice quickly in the supermarket. If I have the children | :19:18. | :19:22. | |
with me I have to do it quickly because my opportunity is such a | :19:23. | :19:27. | |
small window. Eating well can be confusing business. From next year | :19:28. | :19:31. | |
all foods need to carry nutritional information on the back of the pack. | :19:32. | :19:36. | |
In this country most to do that already, but the real battle is on | :19:37. | :19:40. | |
the front. Two years ago the government did a deal with the food | :19:41. | :19:43. | |
industry to put extra information here. This shows the amount of fat, | :19:44. | :19:51. | |
sugar and salt as a percent of the recommended daily amount for an | :19:52. | :19:54. | |
adult. It is known as the traffic light system. I prefer it when I see | :19:55. | :20:00. | |
the colours. At a glance I can see how much sugar and fat is in it. I | :20:01. | :20:06. | |
need to compare it with what else we are eating. It is easier to | :20:07. | :20:12. | |
understand. Obviously read looks like danger, but I do not follow | :20:13. | :20:17. | |
that. Once again, it is in moderation. But to force companies | :20:18. | :20:24. | |
to use the traffic light system would mean changing EU law in | :20:25. | :20:30. | |
Brussels, so this front of pack stuff is still voluntary. The big | :20:31. | :20:34. | |
four supermarkets have now signed up for their own label products, but | :20:35. | :20:40. | |
M does not use it for all of its food range and you will struggle to | :20:41. | :20:45. | |
find those warning colours on many of the largest branding goods. Many | :20:46. | :20:48. | |
of your members have refused to use the system point-blank. The traffic | :20:49. | :20:54. | |
light labelling system itself is not universally acknowledged as the best | :20:55. | :20:59. | |
way of doing it. 90% of our members have front of pack labelling that | :21:00. | :21:04. | |
information. But they do it it in different ways and that is because | :21:05. | :21:08. | |
they are producing products here to be sold in Europe. There are | :21:09. | :21:13. | |
different views amongst shoppers and consumers about what they want. | :21:14. | :21:18. | |
Confusion still reigns with different systems, different colours | :21:19. | :21:23. | |
and different packets. Next year, we understand the industry trade body | :21:24. | :21:27. | |
will make a fresh push to get its members to sign up to the traffic | :21:28. | :21:32. | |
lights scheme. Whether its members agreed this time round remains to be | :21:33. | :21:33. | |
seen. We can speak to the chief | :21:34. | :21:54. | |
nutritionist in England. Where do you see food labelling? It is | :21:55. | :22:00. | |
important that we can look at the product and know what is in it. The | :22:01. | :22:07. | |
front of pack system is great, but we do not think it is the solution | :22:08. | :22:13. | |
to the nation's obesity problem. Most people do not engage that well | :22:14. | :22:16. | |
with food labels and they do not look at them and they are choosing | :22:17. | :22:21. | |
things very quickly. You do that, I did it, we choose things quickly in | :22:22. | :22:26. | |
the supermarket. We think there are structural things that could help | :22:27. | :22:30. | |
address the nation's obesity problem. At the moment we have a lot | :22:31. | :22:35. | |
of our food promoted to us in supermarkets and 40% is bought on | :22:36. | :22:43. | |
fruit promotions. 241. Yes, and that is biased towards the unhealthy end | :22:44. | :22:50. | |
of the food products. So, it does not lead to us swapping one brand of | :22:51. | :22:55. | |
biscuits to another, it leads to as overall buying more of biscuits and | :22:56. | :22:59. | |
that impact on the calories we consume and our weight. Getting | :23:00. | :23:05. | |
control promotions is one of the things Public Health England is | :23:06. | :23:09. | |
recommending. Who would have to get control? It is commissioned by the | :23:10. | :23:15. | |
Department of Health to inform their thinking on sugar as part of the | :23:16. | :23:21. | |
work to plan for the childhood obesity strategy which will be | :23:22. | :23:24. | |
launched in the New Year. We hope there will be quite deep things | :23:25. | :23:31. | |
within that. Another thing is advertising. We saw in that film | :23:32. | :23:35. | |
packaging that has cartoons, that is very engaging for children, and that | :23:36. | :23:41. | |
affect our food choices and what our kids consume. We believe if we had | :23:42. | :23:45. | |
for the controls, we would have an impact on children's' diets. The | :23:46. | :23:50. | |
government has asked you for advice on sugar and you recommend a sugar | :23:51. | :23:56. | |
tax. The Health Select Committee supports it, but so far the | :23:57. | :24:01. | |
government is resisting that. It was one of a series of evidence -based | :24:02. | :24:05. | |
recommendations we make to the government and it was for a | :24:06. | :24:09. | |
recommendation. The top three are promotions, advertising... And | :24:10. | :24:14. | |
reformulation, cutting the sugar content. There is no reason why I | :24:15. | :24:18. | |
yoghurt should be a quarter sugar. These products that people think are | :24:19. | :24:23. | |
healthy can have quite a lot of sugar. Breakfast cereals have a | :24:24. | :24:33. | |
quarter sugar. And healthy oat bars? Maybe they have been fortified with | :24:34. | :24:37. | |
iron and zinc and you think they are better for you than they probably | :24:38. | :24:42. | |
are. The evidence on tax shows that where they have been introduced in | :24:43. | :24:47. | |
other countries they have had an effect in the short-term, but there | :24:48. | :24:52. | |
is long-term evidence. Most of the taxes have happened on fizzy drinks | :24:53. | :24:58. | |
and so on. That is an important source of sugar in the diet. One | :24:59. | :25:07. | |
third of the child's calories comes from soft drinks, but it is not | :25:08. | :25:11. | |
everything. We are getting sugar from a whole range of different | :25:12. | :25:17. | |
foods. We estimate controls on promotions can have a bigger effect | :25:18. | :25:24. | |
on taxing one product. Two thirds of adults are overweight and a third of | :25:25. | :25:29. | |
children are. If Public Health England's job is to promote good | :25:30. | :25:36. | |
health, are you failing? It is horrifying that one in five children | :25:37. | :25:40. | |
arrive in primary school already obese and overweight and a third of | :25:41. | :25:47. | |
them have tooth decay. It is a shocking public health statistics | :25:48. | :25:50. | |
and so far the country has not had deep, strong things to influence | :25:51. | :25:55. | |
that. We have concentrated on health promotion, telling people what they | :25:56. | :26:00. | |
should do, we have improved our schools a lot in terms of nutrition, | :26:01. | :26:04. | |
but we have not done the hard things, we have not really sought to | :26:05. | :26:09. | |
control advertising and promotions and the sugar content of our diet. | :26:10. | :26:15. | |
Do you have any private soundings that the government will listen to | :26:16. | :26:21. | |
your recommendations? Jane Ellison, a public health minister, said in | :26:22. | :26:24. | |
Parliament earlier this week that she had been working closely with | :26:25. | :26:27. | |
Public Health England on this and that is absolutely true. That does | :26:28. | :26:34. | |
not mean diddly squat with respect, does it? Or do you take that as an | :26:35. | :26:43. | |
encouraging sign? We take it as a very encouraging sign. Very key to | :26:44. | :26:48. | |
this is the engagement of the whole of the government in this. The | :26:49. | :26:51. | |
Department of Health only has one part to play in this. Other | :26:52. | :26:55. | |
government departments who work with the food industry have a role to | :26:56. | :27:01. | |
play in it and it is a joined up approach. There is not one silver | :27:02. | :27:05. | |
bullet that can tackle this. Everybody wants the one thing and | :27:06. | :27:12. | |
you need a sustained, broad sweep programme if we really want to do | :27:13. | :27:18. | |
something about obesity. And one in five children arriving at primary | :27:19. | :27:22. | |
school, in reception class, aged four, are already obese? Obese or | :27:23. | :27:32. | |
overweight? Which means from birth parents are making terrible | :27:33. | :27:37. | |
decisions is in my there is one thing everybody could do and that is | :27:38. | :27:40. | |
stop giving their children sugary drinks. The government's advice is | :27:41. | :27:47. | |
that sugary drinks have no place in a child's diet. If everybody in the | :27:48. | :27:52. | |
UK was to do that now, that would cut sugar intake by a third. That is | :27:53. | :27:57. | |
a major think any parent could do. Any parent could do that, that is | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
not impossible. You can say no to a 3 -year-old if they want the sugary | :28:03. | :28:08. | |
drink. People get confused about the idea of trees. Is it something you | :28:09. | :28:12. | |
can have every day? We know the average child is having the | :28:13. | :28:17. | |
approximate to a can of sugary drink every day and once a day is too | :28:18. | :28:22. | |
much. It is a simple, clear message, do not give kids sugary drinks. | :28:23. | :28:27. | |
Thank you very much for talking to us and we will talk more and no | :28:28. | :28:31. | |
doubt when the obesity strategy comes out in the New Year. | :28:32. | :28:39. | |
So, the vote, how do you want your MP to vote tonight? | :28:40. | :28:42. | |
Let's talk to people in constituencies around the UK. | :28:43. | :28:47. | |
Murray is in Liverpool and she is against air strikes. James is in | :28:48. | :28:51. | |
Cheshire and he is against air strikes. Jury is in London and she | :28:52. | :29:01. | |
is undecided. Marry, hello to you. We have just lost her. James, what | :29:02. | :29:09. | |
do you want your MP to do. You are a conservative voter and you want your | :29:10. | :29:16. | |
MP to do what? I would like my MP to vote for air strikes against Isil in | :29:17. | :29:25. | |
Syria. Why? Because I think Isis is an abomination. People say we should | :29:26. | :29:29. | |
not go to war against them, but they are at war with us. Their aim is to | :29:30. | :29:35. | |
destroy our civilisation and they are committing horrendous human | :29:36. | :29:40. | |
rights abuses against people in Iraq and Syria. We are already fighting | :29:41. | :29:45. | |
them in Iraq and we are already targets of Isil and the reason Paris | :29:46. | :29:49. | |
has not happened here is because of the work of our security services | :29:50. | :29:55. | |
and good luck. We are not protecting ourselves by not getting involved in | :29:56. | :30:00. | |
this. Our allies have asked us to join in and they value our military | :30:01. | :30:05. | |
expertise. We should be helping and it would be terrible if we do not. | :30:06. | :30:09. | |
James, let me introduce you to marry. You are a strong supporter of | :30:10. | :30:14. | |
Jeremy Corbyn and you have written to your MP, a Lib Dem, John Pugh, | :30:15. | :30:21. | |
asking him to vote against strikes. Tell James why bombing in Syria | :30:22. | :30:23. | |
would be the wrong thing. I don't agree with bombing. We have | :30:24. | :30:32. | |
been doing it for 15 years and terrorism has increased all the | :30:33. | :30:36. | |
time. It doesn't solve anything. God, I would hate to be in Syria at | :30:37. | :30:41. | |
the moment, because everyone's bombing, all these poor people that | :30:42. | :30:49. | |
are... Dying. I also think that Isis is quite cute in that they're not | :30:50. | :30:53. | |
going to be walking about in their uniforms, they're going to be | :30:54. | :30:57. | |
mingling with ordinary people and how are we going to take them out? I | :30:58. | :31:04. | |
think the whole premice is ridiculous. It is like the lunatics | :31:05. | :31:14. | |
have escaped and taken over the asylum. I don't agree. We don't | :31:15. | :31:21. | |
protect ourselves by doing nothing. 9/11 happened before the Iraq and | :31:22. | :31:29. | |
Afghanistan war. We hadn't bombed anybody and the Americans were | :31:30. | :31:32. | |
targets. We will be targets whether we fight in Iraq or not. Yes, | :31:33. | :31:39. | |
civilians will be killed accidentally, I am sure, Isis will | :31:40. | :31:44. | |
try and make as much capital out of that, it won't be easy, it is a | :31:45. | :31:48. | |
start and not an end. But we have to start. History shows that apiecement | :31:49. | :31:58. | |
does not work. Look at Neville Chamberlain in Germany in 1930. | :31:59. | :32:03. | |
Sarah is a fellow Conservative, but you have a different view to James. | :32:04. | :32:09. | |
What do you say to him? I am happy that Marie pointed out and was | :32:10. | :32:13. | |
focussed on ordinary people and how they're feeling on the ground, I | :32:14. | :32:20. | |
think that politicians are disregarding this point, that is the | :32:21. | :32:23. | |
most important point that needs to be stressed is how are these people | :32:24. | :32:31. | |
going to be impact and will it create an ideological shift? From | :32:32. | :32:36. | |
all the examples we have seen with military intervention in the Middle | :32:37. | :32:40. | |
East it has not worked. We have created a cancer and by bombing | :32:41. | :32:45. | |
innocent civilians you know it is not going to work at all. This is | :32:46. | :32:50. | |
not the answer. Caroline Lucas stressed this point, it will | :32:51. | :32:55. | |
increase dislike of the west and increase chances of attacks here. We | :32:56. | :33:00. | |
are going to see another 7/7. That would not be surprising for me. It | :33:01. | :33:06. | |
has been a disaster and we are adding fuel to the fire. I think | :33:07. | :33:12. | |
you're undecided is that correct what will it take you to help you | :33:13. | :33:18. | |
make up your mind? I was undecided, because it is such a complex | :33:19. | :33:24. | |
situation that you can't say so. For me, I'm glad I'm not making the | :33:25. | :33:29. | |
decision. If I was an MP I wouldn't be able to make a final decision on | :33:30. | :33:33. | |
this. It is such a difficult situation. You know, my reservations | :33:34. | :33:43. | |
are there are innocent civilians and I agree there is some sort of | :33:44. | :33:49. | |
intervention necessary. But I'm not sure air strikes are the right way. | :33:50. | :34:01. | |
I will come back to you in a second. I pause because John Kerry has been | :34:02. | :34:05. | |
speaking about this. Nothing would do more to cut the legs from beneath | :34:06. | :34:13. | |
Daesh than success in de-escalating the war in Syria a bringing closer | :34:14. | :34:20. | |
the day when refugees can return home. Yesterday, I also called on | :34:21. | :34:27. | |
every NATO ally to step up its support for the fight against Daesh. | :34:28. | :34:33. | |
Striking at the organisation's core in Syria and Iraq. Strangling its | :34:34. | :34:41. | |
effort to set up networks elsewhere and defending our ally Turkey and | :34:42. | :34:47. | |
other countries in the region, Jordan and Lebanon particularly. I | :34:48. | :34:53. | |
was gratified that a number of allies are already bringing more to | :34:54. | :34:57. | |
this battle, or are planning to increase their contributions. John | :34:58. | :35:08. | |
Kerry, the US Secretary of State confirming that NATO members are | :35:09. | :35:12. | |
ready to step up. Harry, what do you want your MP to do tonight? My MP is | :35:13. | :35:22. | |
a Labour MP and I think that she will follow her leader rather than | :35:23. | :35:27. | |
doing the right thing, which is in this case would be going with the | :35:28. | :35:33. | |
view that we should have a mandate to do air strikes in Syria, because | :35:34. | :35:39. | |
it did not make any sense that we have got air strikes that can be | :35:40. | :35:44. | |
carried out in Iraq, but across the border, an arbitrary border that is | :35:45. | :35:51. | |
not respected by anybody, that we can't carry out air strikes. But it | :35:52. | :35:56. | |
is a complex issue and the complexities are that we are already | :35:57. | :36:01. | |
part of NATO and John Kerry mentioned that as part of NATO, they | :36:02. | :36:08. | |
want to step up the things that are happening in Syria. Now, we can go | :36:09. | :36:13. | |
down that route if we wish to. And we should do. But what my main issue | :36:14. | :36:22. | |
with what is happening now as far as the British Government's concerned | :36:23. | :36:29. | |
is that Daesh is being bombing and killing and causing all kinds of | :36:30. | :36:34. | |
mayhem, but what he's happened in Paris is the one driving and | :36:35. | :36:37. | |
fuelling everything that is happening. I want that to stop and | :36:38. | :36:43. | |
step back and think for the UK on its own feet and not as a | :36:44. | :36:47. | |
reactionary thing to what happening across the channel. That is my issue | :36:48. | :36:53. | |
and I would they would calm down, readdress ourselves and not on this | :36:54. | :36:58. | |
heat of the moment take decisions which are going to affect us | :36:59. | :37:02. | |
long-term. Our country will be affected long-term. Do you think if | :37:03. | :37:10. | |
your Labour Party MP is a terrorist sympathiser as David Cameron called | :37:11. | :37:13. | |
Jeremy Corbyn and those who will vote against air strikes? I think | :37:14. | :37:20. | |
for senior politicians to you know, somebody like myself can say things | :37:21. | :37:25. | |
like that, maybe and get away with it, but senior politicians should be | :37:26. | :37:29. | |
well advised to choose the correct wordings. I don't think that is he | :37:30. | :37:39. | |
meant. It was something in the heat of the moment. Let's calm down and | :37:40. | :37:50. | |
tackle this with a cool head. I will hear from another two guests. Let's | :37:51. | :37:57. | |
go back to the House of Commons, Norman Smith, you have been talking | :37:58. | :38:00. | |
to Downing Street what are they saying? I'm told that in the wake of | :38:01. | :38:08. | |
the whole terrorist sympathiser backlash, when help gets on his feet | :38:09. | :38:11. | |
in the House of Commons, David Cameron will allude to that and say | :38:12. | :38:17. | |
I respect the sincerely held views of those who have long opposed | :38:18. | :38:22. | |
military action. In other words, he will try and correct the gaffe of | :38:23. | :38:33. | |
last night. Albeit, he was saying he was trying to make a reference to | :38:34. | :38:37. | |
Jeremy Corbyn in particular and his previous support for the likes of | :38:38. | :38:45. | |
Sinn Fein and Hamas, but No 10 know this is you know profoundly damaging | :38:46. | :38:51. | |
on the cusp of this debate and it is worth pointening out after that | :38:52. | :38:55. | |
meeting which was a meeting of Labour MPs, they did not brief out | :38:56. | :39:04. | |
the lines, it was not a spokesman saying they were terrorist | :39:05. | :39:09. | |
sympathisers, it came from Conservative MPs. But these meet rgs | :39:10. | :39:13. | |
never private. We always get information about what is said. Why? | :39:14. | :39:17. | |
Because there is a hundred or so people there and one or two will | :39:18. | :39:21. | |
always talk. It is surprising given the sensitivity of the debate that | :39:22. | :39:27. | |
even in a private meeting David Cameron should make such remarks, | :39:28. | :39:31. | |
because they could backfire. Robbie, do you think David Cameron when said | :39:32. | :39:42. | |
people who will vote against air strikes are terrorist sympathisers | :39:43. | :39:45. | |
or what we will say in the House of Commons today. I won't respect | :39:46. | :39:52. | |
either. There are MPs voting who are not terrorist sympathiser, but | :39:53. | :39:56. | |
decided they cannot vote for it. It was a massive blunder by David | :39:57. | :40:00. | |
Cameron. A lot of Labour people who were saying there is jep side on the | :40:01. | :40:05. | |
ground -- genocide on the ground are going to feel David Cameron is being | :40:06. | :40:10. | |
bomb Bastick and armed his case. What is your MP and what do you want | :40:11. | :40:18. | |
them to do. It is Ian Murray. He will vote against. But I want him to | :40:19. | :40:24. | |
vote for. How do we deal with the genocide in Iraq. The only way to do | :40:25. | :40:33. | |
that is through bombing and asway the doubts, our bombing campaign in | :40:34. | :40:41. | |
Iraq has had zero civilian carps. Carpties. We should -- casualties. | :40:42. | :40:49. | |
We should see that we will minimise casualties by having RAF | :40:50. | :40:52. | |
involvement, because they're so specialised. Another guest, do you | :40:53. | :41:01. | |
buy that that the RAF has precision-guided missiles that can | :41:02. | :41:05. | |
avoid the deaths of innocent civilians? I would take wit a pinch | :41:06. | :41:11. | |
of salt. I think that when we discuss this issue we should | :41:12. | :41:21. | |
remember that how did we get here? They say experience is the best | :41:22. | :41:25. | |
teacher, but I don't see history lessons being heeded. Isis is a | :41:26. | :41:31. | |
creation of the Iraq war. We are ienically going after the -- | :41:32. | :41:35. | |
ironically going after the ghosts of that war. It is a war that is now | :41:36. | :41:39. | |
widely regarded as illegal and I don't think it will secure our | :41:40. | :41:44. | |
borders. If you look around in other countries when US launched drone | :41:45. | :41:50. | |
strikes in Pakistan and the Taliban came back with a vengeance. You may | :41:51. | :41:58. | |
think you have quietened they will down. But they come back for | :41:59. | :42:02. | |
Morseful. Even though as David Cameron said, alongside a military | :42:03. | :42:06. | |
intervention in Syria is the political and diplomatic process | :42:07. | :42:10. | |
which is ongoing in Vienna and there have been two rounds of talks and | :42:11. | :42:13. | |
there will be more in January. He said that is as important, it is a | :42:14. | :42:19. | |
twin-track approach. It seems like if you're going to take those | :42:20. | :42:24. | |
approaches, you're going to... They're not, one is not compensating | :42:25. | :42:32. | |
for the other. The damage done by air strikes will be more widespread | :42:33. | :42:39. | |
and dim out any diplomatic efforts, which are not wort the paper they're | :42:40. | :42:47. | |
written on. They're something other in pen and we need to rethink our | :42:48. | :42:52. | |
trading partners and the money we make out of oil rich Middle East and | :42:53. | :42:56. | |
get to the root of how they're funding and cutting off their supply | :42:57. | :43:05. | |
lines. Are you a terrorist sympathiser? No I British in British | :43:06. | :43:11. | |
values of freedom and freedom of expression and conscience and | :43:12. | :43:12. | |
religion. Koim from a group of -- I religion. Koim from a group of -- I | :43:13. | :43:18. | |
come from a minority group in Islam and we are persecuted in our home | :43:19. | :43:23. | |
country and I have experienced terrorist attacks very close to | :43:24. | :43:25. | |
home. Would you call terrorist attacks very close to | :43:26. | :43:28. | |
Cameron to terrorist attacks very close to | :43:29. | :43:34. | |
phrase in the House of Commons? I should think so. But I am not sure | :43:35. | :43:41. | |
how, what the value of such an apology would be. Thank you all very | :43:42. | :43:48. | |
much. Coverage throughout the day on BBC news and the result tonight | :43:49. | :43:58. | |
about 10 o'clock. We are back tomorrow at 9.15. Have a good day. | :43:59. | :44:03. |