Browse content similar to 07/04/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
Over 14 pages, it sets out why the government believes | :02:04. | :02:05. | |
it is in Britain's interest to stay in the EU. | :02:06. | :02:11. | |
But those who disagree are furious that the government are using money | :02:12. | :02:14. | |
It is crazy to use that much taxpayer money on stuff to scare | :02:15. | :02:22. | |
people and to stampede people in one direction. | :02:23. | :02:26. | |
What we want is a proper and informed debate. | :02:27. | :02:30. | |
And if you are going to use taxpayers money you should allow | :02:31. | :02:34. | |
that for the other people to use it as well. | :02:35. | :02:37. | |
It will be sent to all 27 million UK households. | :02:38. | :02:41. | |
That's more than the ?7 million limit that each side | :02:42. | :02:46. | |
The government says it is giving the public the facts that they want. | :02:47. | :02:53. | |
It is important that people understand what | :02:54. | :02:57. | |
the government research shows, what the governments' information | :02:58. | :03:00. | |
shows and they can use to make their own decisions. | :03:01. | :03:06. | |
Those who want to leave the European Union say | :03:07. | :03:08. | |
that the distribution may be legal but it flies in the face | :03:09. | :03:11. | |
of the government's commitment to ensure a free | :03:12. | :03:13. | |
Where does this go from here? When I get these leaflets through the door | :03:14. | :03:34. | |
I usually throw them straight in the booing. What a storm has blown up | :03:35. | :03:42. | |
over this leaflet. Why? Because bluntly the Leave side think the | :03:43. | :03:47. | |
government is trying to rig the referendum by pumping out this | :03:48. | :03:50. | |
leaflets to all of our households, which we are paying for, total cost | :03:51. | :03:55. | |
?9 million, despite the fact they say the government had promised it | :03:56. | :03:58. | |
would not send out these mailshots and would not take a lead role in | :03:59. | :04:06. | |
the Remain campaign. They say the leaflet is one-sided. It just | :04:07. | :04:10. | |
prevents -- presents the government side. It talks about economic | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
uncertainty, chaos for ten years, mobile phone charges will go up, it | :04:16. | :04:19. | |
will cost us more to fly to Europe. They are incensed. Listen to the | :04:20. | :04:28. | |
former defence secretary, Liam Fox. To it is completely unacceptable. I | :04:29. | :04:33. | |
will be putting mine in an envelope and sending it back to Downing | :04:34. | :04:35. | |
Street. I would urge others to do the same. There will be an online | :04:36. | :04:40. | |
petition launched later today to make sure we get the issue discussed | :04:41. | :04:44. | |
in Parliament, so we can make no narrow road rage at what the | :04:45. | :04:52. | |
government has done. -- make known in our outrage. Michael Fallon says | :04:53. | :04:56. | |
the government is just setting out its case. The government is neutral. | :04:57. | :05:01. | |
It is on the side of remaining in the EU. So it is perfectly OK. We | :05:02. | :05:07. | |
have respected the rules. Parliament has set out what should happen in | :05:08. | :05:12. | |
the campaign. Both sides will be entitled to access taxpayer money to | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
send out their own leaflets. They can spend millions of pounds setting | :05:17. | :05:19. | |
out the arguments why they think we should leave or remain. What we have | :05:20. | :05:26. | |
done in this leaflet is set at the basic facts that have to be decided | :05:27. | :05:29. | |
on. And said that the government's judgment. My senses that the Leave | :05:30. | :05:36. | |
side are being a tad wide-eyed and innocent about all of this. The | :05:37. | :05:40. | |
government will fight tooth and nail to win this referendum because it is | :05:41. | :05:47. | |
a sort of winner takes all tussle. Should one be surprised? Not really. | :05:48. | :05:51. | |
They have already put out dossier is on the cost of the farming industry | :05:52. | :05:57. | |
-- to the farming industry. The cost to the city. The economic risks of | :05:58. | :06:04. | |
leaving. Some of the language has been rich. The PM has been out | :06:05. | :06:08. | |
pretty much every week twice a week. They are throwing everything at | :06:09. | :06:13. | |
this. Perhaps one should not be surprised they have also published | :06:14. | :06:20. | |
this leaflet. The leaflet is online. You can look at it on there. Thank | :06:21. | :06:26. | |
you. Here's Ben with | :06:27. | :06:29. | |
the rest of the news. Iceland's governing coalition has | :06:30. | :06:36. | |
chosen a new Prime Minister, after the leaked Panama papers | :06:37. | :06:38. | |
caused Sigmundur The Fisheries Minister | :06:39. | :06:40. | |
will be his successor until There have been public protests | :06:41. | :06:46. | |
in Rejkjavik calling for the entire A 14 year old girl who went missing | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
almost two weeks ago, has been found safe and well | :06:52. | :06:57. | |
by police in Wigan. Concerns had been growing | :06:58. | :07:00. | |
for the safety of Jade Lynch following her disappearance | :07:01. | :07:02. | |
in St Helens 11 days ago. Police say support from the public | :07:03. | :07:05. | |
was vital in finding Jade after her sister appealed | :07:06. | :07:08. | |
for her return. Half out people with poor mental | :07:09. | :07:24. | |
health have suffered suicidal thoughts and are particularly badly | :07:25. | :07:27. | |
affected by welfare cuts might to housing and social care. More than | :07:28. | :07:32. | |
1500 people who have used mental health services in the past couple | :07:33. | :07:35. | |
of years were surveyed. The government says it has increased | :07:36. | :07:41. | |
mental health funding to ?11.7 billion last year. Joanna will be | :07:42. | :07:44. | |
discussing this story in detail in the next few minutes. | :07:45. | :07:46. | |
A BBC Freedom of Information request has revealed inconsistencies | :07:47. | :07:48. | |
in specialist mental health treatment for outpatients | :07:49. | :07:50. | |
In some parts of the country over the past four years, waiting times | :07:51. | :07:58. | |
In Manchester, the average wait is 182 days - but only | :07:59. | :08:04. | |
around 20 days in Dorset, Dudley and north-east London. | :08:05. | :08:08. | |
The Department of Health says it's investing ?150 million in services | :08:09. | :08:12. | |
for young patients over the next five years . | :08:13. | :08:21. | |
The chief executive of the mental health network says more investment | :08:22. | :08:30. | |
is needed. Doctors and nurses are providing excellent services but | :08:31. | :08:34. | |
they are simply overwhelmed by the numbers. They are not getting the | :08:35. | :08:38. | |
support to deal with the demand. We have a postcode lottery of access, | :08:39. | :08:45. | |
which your story clearly exposes. The reasons for that is because we | :08:46. | :08:50. | |
do not have any effect of access standards and we do not actually | :08:51. | :08:53. | |
have the investment in those services. | :08:54. | :08:55. | |
Four migrant children will arrive in the UK from Calais this morning, | :08:56. | :08:58. | |
after being allowed to stay with their families | :08:59. | :09:00. | |
here while their asylum claims are assessed. | :09:01. | :09:01. | |
The teenagers are from Syria and Afghanistan, and are among | :09:02. | :09:04. | |
the first to arrive under newly-enforced EU laws. | :09:05. | :09:07. | |
The charity Citizens UK is calling for the government to do more | :09:08. | :09:10. | |
to help other children in similar situations. | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
English councils are warning the ?50 million the government has | :09:16. | :09:18. | |
promised to fix potholes this year is nowhere near enough. | :09:19. | :09:22. | |
The Local Government Association says the true cost of repairing | :09:23. | :09:25. | |
crumbling roads is more than 230 times that amount. | :09:26. | :09:29. | |
They can trip you up, knock you off your bike or damage | :09:30. | :09:37. | |
In the aftermath of the winter frosts can split the asphalt. | :09:38. | :09:46. | |
Potholes are the deepest and nastiest at this time of year. | :09:47. | :09:49. | |
So the government is putting a ?50 million funding boost to help | :09:50. | :09:52. | |
The biggest chunk of a it is going to Southwest. | :09:53. | :10:00. | |
The West Midlands gets five points ?7 million. | :10:01. | :10:07. | |
The north-east is receiving the smallest allocation | :10:08. | :10:08. | |
As roughly ?50 a piece, this funding would fix just over 1 million holes. | :10:09. | :10:27. | |
The Local Government Association say the money being promised is nowhere | :10:28. | :10:32. | |
near the ?11.8 billion they say is needed to bring roads up to scratch. | :10:33. | :10:35. | |
It claimed councils have become trapped in an endless cycle | :10:36. | :10:37. | |
This money is not nearly enough to properly smooths the way. | :10:38. | :10:47. | |
NHS England says the second day of the latest strike by junior doctors | :10:48. | :10:54. | |
is likely to be more difficult for the health service. They are | :10:55. | :10:58. | |
providing only emergency care today because of a dispute with the | :10:59. | :11:00. | |
government over the imposition of a new contract. More than 5000 | :11:01. | :11:05. | |
procedures have been postponed as a result of the 48-hour walk-out. | :11:06. | :11:07. | |
There's more bad news for Marks and Spencer this morning. | :11:08. | :11:09. | |
Clothing and home sales at the famous retailer fell by 2.7% | :11:10. | :11:12. | |
The firm's new chief executive, Steve Rowe, says he'll remain | :11:13. | :11:17. | |
personally in charge of that part of the business because he's | :11:18. | :11:20. | |
"personally committed" to getting it right. | :11:21. | :11:23. | |
Food sales were flat during the same period - | :11:24. | :11:25. | |
One of the world's rarest and most sought after books has been | :11:26. | :11:33. | |
discovered in a private library on the Scottish island of Bute. | :11:34. | :11:36. | |
The First Folio of William Shakespeare, published in 1623, | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
contains copies of many of the bard's most famous plays | :11:41. | :11:44. | |
which would otherwise have been lost. | :11:45. | :11:46. | |
The discovery comes shortly before the 400th anniversary | :11:47. | :11:48. | |
of Shakespeare's death later this month. | :11:49. | :11:57. | |
That is a summary of the latest news. | :11:58. | :12:04. | |
We are talking to two women who have been affected by the junior doctors | :12:05. | :12:09. | |
strike this morning. Have you been affected? If you have, let us know. | :12:10. | :12:18. | |
Time to catch up with the sport. A pretty good night for a Manchester | :12:19. | :12:24. | |
City? It was not brilliant but it could | :12:25. | :12:29. | |
have been worse. Their first Champions League quarterfinal at | :12:30. | :12:32. | |
just about everything. Joe Hart saved a penalty against Paris | :12:33. | :12:36. | |
Saint-Germain. They took the lead, went behind. It finished 2-2. Kevin | :12:37. | :12:44. | |
De Bruyne put Manchester City ahead. Ibrahimovic levelled. The French | :12:45. | :12:52. | |
champions went 2-1 ahead but Fernandinho scored a scrappy but | :12:53. | :12:58. | |
what could be a priceless equaliser. Manchester City take two away goals | :12:59. | :13:02. | |
into the second leg. It is a very good result. We were playing a -- | :13:03. | :13:08. | |
against a very good team away. To scored two goals is also very | :13:09. | :13:13. | |
important. We need to play a very good game in Manchester because we | :13:14. | :13:16. | |
are going to play against a team that have good players. | :13:17. | :13:22. | |
There was a big shock in the first leg of the other tie in Germany. | :13:23. | :13:27. | |
Wolfsburg were also playing their first Champions League quarterfinal. | :13:28. | :13:31. | |
They beat ten time European champions Real Madrid. It was 2-0. | :13:32. | :13:38. | |
The Masters tees off this afternoon. Rory McIlroy would be the last man | :13:39. | :13:44. | |
on the course. He has had his ups and downs at Augusta. Throwing away | :13:45. | :13:49. | |
a four shot lead on the final day in 2011. Last year he finished fourth | :13:50. | :13:52. | |
behind Jordan Spieth. Stephen Watson is there. | :13:53. | :13:59. | |
Jason Day starts as favourite for a golf's most exclusive event. The | :14:00. | :14:04. | |
world number one has had six wins in his last 13 worldwide starts and has | :14:05. | :14:09. | |
been dominating the game. He has also finished second and third at | :14:10. | :14:14. | |
Augusta before. There are plenty of other contenders, including Rory | :14:15. | :14:18. | |
McIlroy. He tees off in the final group this afternoon, trying to | :14:19. | :14:21. | |
become the sixth golfer in history to win the Grand Slam of all four | :14:22. | :14:26. | |
majors. Then there is the American, Jordan Spieth, who may not have had | :14:27. | :14:32. | |
a great start to this season. But in his two Masters appearances he has | :14:33. | :14:35. | |
finished second and first. I'm going to try to use last year as | :14:36. | :14:41. | |
momentum. We know we are capable of playing this place. I am putting | :14:42. | :14:49. | |
pressure on myself to content this year, just like last year, and I | :14:50. | :14:55. | |
feel like I am in form as well. But it is also going to be a lot of fun | :14:56. | :15:00. | |
walking these fairways, with the memories of the crowds. There are a | :15:01. | :15:05. | |
host of other challengers, including winners already this season, bubba | :15:06. | :15:09. | |
Watson, Adam Scott and Rickie Fowler, who are set to make it a | :15:10. | :15:12. | |
very entertaining and exciting next four days. | :15:13. | :15:17. | |
There is always a par three competition at Augusta on the eve of | :15:18. | :15:24. | |
the tournament. This year, a record-breaking nine holes in one. | :15:25. | :15:28. | |
One of them belonging to an absolute legend of the game. At 80 years old, | :15:29. | :15:37. | |
Gary player can still do that. It has been a long career but that was | :15:38. | :15:42. | |
his 31st hole in one. He was planning alongside Jack Nicklaus and | :15:43. | :15:48. | |
Tom Watson. The combined age, 222. It gives hope to assault. Back with | :15:49. | :15:54. | |
the headlines just after ten. At half-past ten we will be chatting to | :15:55. | :15:57. | |
our man in Europe ahead of the Dortmund and Liverpool tie tonight. | :15:58. | :16:03. | |
Housing, debt and welfare - all social issues that are claimed | :16:04. | :16:06. | |
to be leading one in two people with mental health problems | :16:07. | :16:08. | |
The charity, Mind, is today warning that the type of local services that | :16:09. | :16:12. | |
help those very people are under threat from spending cuts, | :16:13. | :16:15. | |
despite the government saying it has increased mental health | :16:16. | :16:17. | |
funding to an estimated ?11.7 billion last year. | :16:18. | :16:20. | |
More than 1,500 people who have used mental health services | :16:21. | :16:22. | |
in the last two years, were surveyed on behalf of Mind. | :16:23. | :16:26. | |
Out of those, 41% said they had considered or attempted suicide | :16:27. | :16:28. | |
because of financial or housing pressures. | :16:29. | :16:33. | |
29% said that a fear of losing or the loss of welfare benefits. | :16:34. | :16:39. | |
Losing their job or difficulties at work was the reason 29% of people | :16:40. | :16:44. | |
said they had considered taking their own life. | :16:45. | :16:46. | |
29% said it relationship breakdown was a contributory factor. | :16:47. | :16:52. | |
We can speak now to Sue Jackson, who has suffered with | :16:53. | :16:55. | |
Tom Pollard, Mind policy and campaigns manager. | :16:56. | :16:59. | |
Jake Mills, who tried to take his own life after getting | :17:00. | :17:02. | |
into problems with money amongst other things, | :17:03. | :17:05. | |
and has since started a charity to help others. | :17:06. | :17:08. | |
And finally, Anne Thorn, whose son took his own life. | :17:09. | :17:11. | |
At the inquest into his death, the coroner said that worry | :17:12. | :17:13. | |
over his debt had been a major contributory factor. | :17:14. | :17:22. | |
Thank you very much for coming in. Tom, I ran through a lot of | :17:23. | :17:29. | |
statistics there. What is going on behind these statistics? Mind has | :17:30. | :17:36. | |
known for a long time that for people with mental health problems, | :17:37. | :17:43. | |
staying well goes beyond treatment from doctors. Issues like housing, | :17:44. | :17:50. | |
debt, that can have a big impact on people's mental health, but even we | :17:51. | :17:53. | |
were shocked that such a high proportion of people have been | :17:54. | :17:58. | |
driven to extreme thoughts as a result of those problems. These are | :17:59. | :18:01. | |
issues affecting most of us on a daily basis. If it affecting people | :18:02. | :18:07. | |
in a different way from before? What is going on? Across a range of | :18:08. | :18:11. | |
issues, we know that people with mental health problems are more | :18:12. | :18:14. | |
likely to experience issues like debt and more likely to need | :18:15. | :18:19. | |
benefits and housing help, but when they have issues at having more | :18:20. | :18:27. | |
profound impact on them. Everybody experiences these problems, but with | :18:28. | :18:30. | |
mental health issues, it is a double whammy and make life even harder. | :18:31. | :18:36. | |
46% of people with mental health problems have thought about or tried | :18:37. | :18:40. | |
to end their own life. Were you surprised the figure was that high? | :18:41. | :18:45. | |
I was. What we know is that the local services that we are talking | :18:46. | :18:48. | |
about with our life-support campaign can be the difference between life | :18:49. | :18:53. | |
and death. For people suffering with those problems, having somebody | :18:54. | :18:57. | |
supporting them through managing their finances or applying for | :18:58. | :19:00. | |
benefits can really make the difference to people between not | :19:01. | :19:03. | |
being able to cope and being able to cope. Sue, you have mental health | :19:04. | :19:11. | |
problems which began when he had issues around your housing. How | :19:12. | :19:14. | |
quickly did it start to impact on you in a way that you realised was | :19:15. | :19:18. | |
seriously causing you problems? Firstly, thank you very much for | :19:19. | :19:27. | |
inviting me on your show. I experienced problems with the | :19:28. | :19:33. | |
neighbours and I am quite resilient person and I had a good job and I | :19:34. | :19:39. | |
was managing my life, but because of the intensity of the issues, I | :19:40. | :19:45. | |
reached a point where I couldn't cope with things and it was a very | :19:46. | :19:52. | |
low point in my life. So how did you feel? I felt extremely desperate and | :19:53. | :20:02. | |
at times I just couldn't see any light at the end of the tunnel. It | :20:03. | :20:10. | |
made me feel very depressed. It affected my appetite, it affected my | :20:11. | :20:17. | |
sleep, it affected my whole life. I just found I couldn't cope. You said | :20:18. | :20:23. | |
that prior to that, you had thought of yourself as quite a resilient | :20:24. | :20:28. | |
person. Yes, I did, and I am a resilient person, but when these | :20:29. | :20:34. | |
problems with housing started, it affected my finances, it affected | :20:35. | :20:44. | |
relationships, and... It made you feel vulnerable on all fronts? It | :20:45. | :20:50. | |
did. I have never been that lower in my life before and I do consider | :20:51. | :20:54. | |
myself as a very strong woman, as I have said before, but I was so | :20:55. | :21:01. | |
vulnerable that I needed quite a lot of support. At this point, I found | :21:02. | :21:12. | |
that having support from charities is something that really, really | :21:13. | :21:18. | |
keeps me going. Without the support of charities like Mind, I don't know | :21:19. | :21:25. | |
how I would manage. Anne, your son very sadly took his own life, and at | :21:26. | :21:29. | |
the inquest the coroner said that worry over debt had been a major | :21:30. | :21:36. | |
contributory factor. Had you been concerned that your son was | :21:37. | :21:41. | |
vulnerable? Well, it is difficult to say because he was 23, he had been | :21:42. | :21:46. | |
at university and he had dropped out. But everyone in the University, | :21:47. | :21:57. | |
this sums to be a normal 23-year-old young man's problems. How many | :21:58. | :22:03. | |
students don't have problems with money? I had been asked to pay his | :22:04. | :22:08. | |
rent a couple of times, yes. He had a big student overdraft with the | :22:09. | :22:14. | |
bank, so yes, I was aware of it, but was I worried that he was going to | :22:15. | :22:19. | |
take his own life? No. I just wasn't aware of the shocking statistics. I | :22:20. | :22:29. | |
think my view is that the debt possibly was the straw that broke | :22:30. | :22:33. | |
the camel's back. I don't believe that he killed himself just because | :22:34. | :22:37. | |
he was in debt. From what I understand now about suicide, it is | :22:38. | :22:42. | |
very complex. As your article this morning is showing, it can be that | :22:43. | :22:46. | |
final thing that pushes somebody over the edge because they're coping | :22:47. | :22:50. | |
skills have gone by that point. Whether it is your job, debt, a | :22:51. | :22:56. | |
relationship, it can be the final factor unfortunately. Tom, suicide | :22:57. | :23:02. | |
leaves everybody around that person after they have gone thinking that | :23:03. | :23:06. | |
it is something we could have helped with, we could have changed | :23:07. | :23:09. | |
something. But obviously nobody knows at the time how desperately | :23:10. | :23:13. | |
somebody is feeling inside. What can be done to help when there are | :23:14. | :23:17. | |
clearly a lot of people out there feeling desperate and probably not | :23:18. | :23:23. | |
passing it on? I think some of this is about the stigma around mental | :23:24. | :23:26. | |
health and getting to the point where people feel they can speak out | :23:27. | :23:30. | |
would be a huge step. With this campaign in particular, we are | :23:31. | :23:34. | |
saying that there is huge support that people can be provided with | :23:35. | :23:38. | |
from local services, like Mind and Citizens Advice Bureau. It is about | :23:39. | :23:43. | |
people recognising that they may need to go the extra mile to help | :23:44. | :23:47. | |
someone but what we are seeing is that at local level services are | :23:48. | :23:52. | |
struggling with funding, local cuts, services to legal aid. It means that | :23:53. | :24:00. | |
people are struggling to get the support, it means they go into | :24:01. | :24:04. | |
crisis and need costly support from the NHS. That is a false economy. | :24:05. | :24:13. | |
And for your son, did you feel there were ways that it could have been | :24:14. | :24:19. | |
different? I don't know if he would have gone to a charity or ADP. With | :24:20. | :24:27. | |
young men, they just don't talk. It is all very well to talk about these | :24:28. | :24:31. | |
resources, but I think everyone of us has a role to play. We need start | :24:32. | :24:39. | |
talking about suicide and looking out for each other and creating | :24:40. | :24:43. | |
suicide free communities, where we can talk to people and ask if they | :24:44. | :24:47. | |
are suicidal. GPs need to be trained. We can all contribute by | :24:48. | :24:54. | |
talking about it and removing the stigma. If I tell people that my son | :24:55. | :24:59. | |
died, and they look sympathetic, and then I say that he killed himself, a | :25:00. | :25:04. | |
lot of people change the subject. They don't know what to say and I | :25:05. | :25:07. | |
think we need to change that attitude as well. How do you feel at | :25:08. | :25:14. | |
that point? What do you want people to say and what do you say to them? | :25:15. | :25:21. | |
I would like them to acknowledge it in the same way as if my son died of | :25:22. | :25:25. | |
cancer. It is an illness. He was depressed and it is an illness. I | :25:26. | :25:32. | |
want people to say I am sorry and not to be afraid to talk to me about | :25:33. | :25:36. | |
it. I still want to talk about my son and for it's not to be a big | :25:37. | :25:42. | |
stigma. I have worked with Papyrus, a charity that helps reduce young | :25:43. | :25:46. | |
suicide. All of us that have been affected have now got a role to | :25:47. | :25:51. | |
play, to speak up and spread the word. Getting people more aware of | :25:52. | :26:00. | |
it would go a long way to helping. Jake, you tried to take your own | :26:01. | :26:03. | |
life. What was going on in your life that made you feel like you couldn't | :26:04. | :26:09. | |
go on? A lot of things, really. It wasn't anything in particular. I | :26:10. | :26:16. | |
couldn't tell you a moment that made me depressed or the moment I became | :26:17. | :26:21. | |
depressed. There were a lot of different things going on. | :26:22. | :26:25. | |
Relationship issues, many issues. I was on the dole and for me that was | :26:26. | :26:29. | |
a really significant and really massively low moment. It was just a | :26:30. | :26:36. | |
lot of different issues really, that all built up. This is the thing, | :26:37. | :26:40. | |
when you are depressed, something that might not seem that big a deal | :26:41. | :26:45. | |
for some people can be the biggest thing and the biggest deal in the | :26:46. | :26:51. | |
world for others. It is just that building on top of each other that | :26:52. | :26:57. | |
can weigh so heavily on you. That is what it was for me. It was a | :26:58. | :27:01. | |
combination of different things. Each and every one of them felt like | :27:02. | :27:06. | |
the biggest thing in the world. The point that has just been made there, | :27:07. | :27:11. | |
when that lady was saying that she wanted to talk about her son and | :27:12. | :27:16. | |
nobody knows what to say, that is the problem. That is the main | :27:17. | :27:21. | |
problem. We don't know what to say and people don't know enough about | :27:22. | :27:24. | |
suicide and depression and mental illness. We simply don't know enough | :27:25. | :27:28. | |
about it to be able to talk about it and that is what we need to be | :27:29. | :27:33. | |
addressing. What was it for you that turned things around? Was there a | :27:34. | :27:37. | |
moment that something clicked? Did somebody say something to you that | :27:38. | :27:39. | |
made you think, yes, I get it, the sun will shine again? | :27:40. | :27:54. | |
Unfortunately for me there was not a moment, not a good story for me | :27:55. | :27:57. | |
coming around. The turning point for me was the moment after I attempted | :27:58. | :28:00. | |
suicide and I was found. The lack of support that I received from the | :28:01. | :28:03. | |
police and everywhere else, I didn't have anything at all. I didn't have | :28:04. | :28:08. | |
any advice, I didn't have any signposting, nothing. I got zero | :28:09. | :28:12. | |
support and for me that was the turning point. I decided to speak | :28:13. | :28:17. | |
out about it because rumours were spreading. I decided to speak out | :28:18. | :28:21. | |
about it and by doing that, purely just to try and clear it, to get | :28:22. | :28:26. | |
this weight off my shoulders, the response that I was getting from | :28:27. | :28:27. | |
people who said they felt the same way, people | :28:28. | :28:52. | |
who were going through the same thing and thought they were the only | :28:53. | :28:54. | |
ones, that massive response that I was getting from strangers all over | :28:55. | :28:57. | |
the world, every time I did an interview or spoke openly about it, | :28:58. | :29:00. | |
the amount of people who came to me and said they felt alone and felt | :29:01. | :29:02. | |
like the only ones and didn't realise there was help available, | :29:03. | :29:05. | |
for me that was the turning point. That alone. The realisation that | :29:06. | :29:07. | |
millions of people are going through exactly the same thing at the same | :29:08. | :29:10. | |
time but feeling like they are the only ones. That was the turning | :29:11. | :29:12. | |
point for me because I decided to do something. It gave me my purpose | :29:13. | :29:15. | |
back. It gave me a meaning, something to do. That is what has | :29:16. | :29:17. | |
helped me in my recovery really. Anne, you are nodding as you are | :29:18. | :29:23. | |
listening. Yes, this is all too common, especially in young men, I | :29:24. | :29:30. | |
have found. They just don't... All his friends, their lives have been | :29:31. | :29:34. | |
shattered for ever as well. At the funeral, I thought they should be | :29:35. | :29:38. | |
going to parties and not funerals. They were shattered and they said | :29:39. | :29:44. | |
they had no idea. He came across as a carefree, happy-go-lucky person, | :29:45. | :29:47. | |
because he was keeping it all inside. The message to young men is | :29:48. | :29:52. | |
that it is not located tell your mates if you are feeling BLEEP. This | :29:53. | :29:59. | |
has got to change. I applaud this young man. This is the kind of thing | :30:00. | :30:04. | |
that comforts me. It is too late for my son but it comforts me to see | :30:05. | :30:09. | |
people out there to change this attitude and get young people, well, | :30:10. | :30:13. | |
anyone, but especially young men, to talk to each other about their | :30:14. | :30:18. | |
issues, instead of thinking it is weak and you have got to be manly | :30:19. | :30:24. | |
and not talk about the problem. Tom, we talk about mental health so much | :30:25. | :30:28. | |
now, and yet there is still that fear for many that it is a sign of | :30:29. | :30:32. | |
vulnerability and burdening others if you talk to them about it. | :30:33. | :30:37. | |
I think we have come a long way. There is still a huge way to go. We | :30:38. | :30:46. | |
see greater commitment around mental health services but we see great | :30:47. | :30:51. | |
inequality in terms of access. We need to get to the point where | :30:52. | :30:54. | |
people understand that mental health is as much a social thing as it is a | :30:55. | :31:00. | |
clinical thing. It is about people needing support from a range of | :31:01. | :31:07. | |
sources. I've found that I became very isolated. It is difficult to | :31:08. | :31:16. | |
talk about problems. When I felt very overwhelmed with the issues I | :31:17. | :31:23. | |
was having with the housing, I've found that I got a lot of support | :31:24. | :31:29. | |
from the police. But the other services that could have supported | :31:30. | :31:34. | |
me were sadly very lacking. I found that there was a lot of care from my | :31:35. | :31:45. | |
neighbourhood police. In my case it was unrelenting racism against me. | :31:46. | :31:52. | |
And threats of violence. This is something that when I started | :31:53. | :31:56. | |
talking about it, I found that quite a lot of people from ethnic | :31:57. | :31:59. | |
minorities go through what I have been through. And I found talking | :32:00. | :32:05. | |
about it is therapeutic. I like to get involved in services to try to | :32:06. | :32:15. | |
give the patient experience. The common thread is vulnerability, | :32:16. | :32:18. | |
absolute fear about where your life is going. What can we all do to | :32:19. | :32:24. | |
build greater resilience? What gives one person the resilience to deal | :32:25. | :32:28. | |
with the situation, whereas another person will find something | :32:29. | :32:32. | |
devastating and will be floored by it? Sometimes it can be about the | :32:33. | :32:39. | |
support network. Sometimes it will be whether they have access to | :32:40. | :32:42. | |
services from charities or from the state. It is about people knowing | :32:43. | :32:51. | |
where to look for advice. Also it is about government, local authority, | :32:52. | :32:54. | |
making sure the support is available and understanding how important that | :32:55. | :32:59. | |
is. Lots of people getting in touch. Matthew has said support needed. No | :33:00. | :33:09. | |
help given whatsoever, says another. Driven to despair. Matthew feels it | :33:10. | :33:13. | |
is terrible that so many people are driven to despair by the policies of | :33:14. | :33:15. | |
this comment which penalise the vulnerable. Jane says fear of debt | :33:16. | :33:23. | |
harm so is because they have been targeted unfairly. Robert says he | :33:24. | :33:27. | |
attempted suicide nearly 18 months ago after suffering serious health | :33:28. | :33:31. | |
issues and losing his job because of his inability to work. His | :33:32. | :33:34. | |
relationship broke down as well. If he had had support before his | :33:35. | :33:41. | |
initial illness, things may not have spiralled out of control. And | :33:42. | :33:43. | |
Stewart says people are struggling to cope. Your survey shows how many | :33:44. | :33:51. | |
people are thinking of ending their own lives. In terms of the | :33:52. | :33:55. | |
statistics, are more people ending their lives? I think we see | :33:56. | :34:02. | |
fluctuations in suicide rates. Sometimes it is linked to people | :34:03. | :34:09. | |
losing their jobs. We also know that there are real issues out there | :34:10. | :34:12. | |
about people getting access to the support they need. At local level | :34:13. | :34:18. | |
there are cutbacks. It is tied for local authorities. We understand | :34:19. | :34:23. | |
that. But what we are saying today is if that support is not there, | :34:24. | :34:27. | |
that can be the difference between people coping and not coping. You | :34:28. | :34:32. | |
have older sieving through a dreadful time, and. How have you got | :34:33. | :34:35. | |
through that? You are incredibly strong. Yes, it is absolutely | :34:36. | :34:42. | |
shattered my life. He was my only child. They knock on the door by a | :34:43. | :34:49. | |
policeman on a Sunday night and your life is just shattered. Initially I | :34:50. | :34:54. | |
was just angry that I did not know this was something I should worry | :34:55. | :35:00. | |
about. Because of the stigma. I did not know my son was more likely to | :35:01. | :35:04. | |
die from suicide than anything else. I was worried about drugs and drunk | :35:05. | :35:09. | |
drivers. I have told similar to that young man. Odd choice have I got? I | :35:10. | :35:13. | |
cannot bring him back. I have started blogging. People then got in | :35:14. | :35:21. | |
touch with me. I started a support group for bereaved parents, bereaved | :35:22. | :35:27. | |
by suicide, because we have a specific terrible guilt when your | :35:28. | :35:35. | |
child takes their life. And just campaigning. That has helped me. I | :35:36. | :35:45. | |
have not had much support. When I went to my GP, the ironic thing is | :35:46. | :35:50. | |
that when you have been affected by suicide, it can make you suicidal | :35:51. | :35:56. | |
yourself. When I went to my GP, I was not signposted to anyone. They | :35:57. | :36:04. | |
could put me on a six-month waiting list for CBT or something. I tell | :36:05. | :36:10. | |
people to go to their GP but then you think, what can they do? It is | :36:11. | :36:16. | |
getting communities to group together and see what we can do | :36:17. | :36:22. | |
ourselves. And yes, signpost people to support that is there. It is also | :36:23. | :36:28. | |
about changing attitudes. I think that all teachers and lecturers | :36:29. | :36:33. | |
should get training. I have been on a two day course which is like a | :36:34. | :36:40. | |
first aid course for suicide. It helps to spot someone who may be | :36:41. | :36:44. | |
silica -- suicidal and how to talk to them. Teachers and tutors should | :36:45. | :36:50. | |
be getting this training. We all go on first aid courses. If somebody is | :36:51. | :36:55. | |
watching and they are worried about someone, you say you have had | :36:56. | :36:59. | |
training to spot the signs. What would you look for and how would you | :37:00. | :37:06. | |
broach it? You ask them. It has been proved you cannot put a suicidal | :37:07. | :37:10. | |
thought in somebody's head. You will not make them think about killing | :37:11. | :37:15. | |
themselves if they have not already. Just ask them. Have you thought | :37:16. | :37:20. | |
about taking your own life? If they say yes, you can assess it. Have you | :37:21. | :37:27. | |
made a plan? Then you can say to them, would you let me help you get | :37:28. | :37:36. | |
help? Call a helpline. You can actually help them. But broach it. | :37:37. | :37:43. | |
Do not be afraid to ask. Jake, you are nodding. You got to rock bottom | :37:44. | :37:46. | |
before things turn around. Would somebody help talking -- talking to | :37:47. | :37:51. | |
live that have made a difference? I absolutely agree that you cannot | :37:52. | :37:59. | |
pussyfoot around it. You have to speak to someone and be quite blunt | :38:00. | :38:03. | |
about it. But absolutely, I agree with the point that has been made. | :38:04. | :38:07. | |
What is so important to these community groups that are around, | :38:08. | :38:13. | |
and unfortunately I lacking funding, is they are the people who can make | :38:14. | :38:16. | |
the difference, they are on the ground. They are the grassroots | :38:17. | :38:22. | |
organisations who can help to prevent people from getting to a | :38:23. | :38:26. | |
crisis point. That is what we need to focus on. That is something I | :38:27. | :38:30. | |
personally noticed a lot. There are a lot of people doing a lot of good | :38:31. | :38:34. | |
stuff but nobody knows about it. That is something I want to address. | :38:35. | :38:39. | |
I am trying to create a national database of all of these | :38:40. | :38:44. | |
organisations that exist. The main thing we need to say to people is | :38:45. | :38:48. | |
that there is help available and you can get through it and you will get | :38:49. | :38:53. | |
through it. I was there, I got through it. I promise you, if you | :38:54. | :38:57. | |
are feeling suicidal, if you are feeling that low that you think you | :38:58. | :39:01. | |
will never get through it, I felt I would never be the person I am | :39:02. | :39:06. | |
today. I felt I would never be that person again. I am telling you, you | :39:07. | :39:11. | |
will be. I am that person again. My life has completely turned around | :39:12. | :39:14. | |
because I started to accept that it was an illness, that I was going | :39:15. | :39:20. | |
through something, and telling people, and knowing people are there | :39:21. | :39:23. | |
to help and support you. People will not judge you. You need to be honest | :39:24. | :39:27. | |
with people and yourself. Thank you so much for joining us, | :39:28. | :39:34. | |
all of you. Thank you for your comments as well. | :39:35. | :39:37. | |
A Government spokesperson said: "We want people to get the help | :39:38. | :39:39. | |
they need before they reach a point of mental health crisis, | :39:40. | :39:42. | |
which is why we increased mental health funding to an estimated | :39:43. | :39:45. | |
The Local Government Association also provided us with a statement. | :39:46. | :40:01. | |
If you want help or advice on any of the issues we've been discussing | :40:02. | :40:04. | |
I would like to say just one thing that has helped me is my | :40:05. | :40:23. | |
spirituality. There is a lot to be said for faith communities helping | :40:24. | :40:29. | |
people in the community to cope. That is what has given me hope. And | :40:30. | :40:35. | |
when you are down and out, the only thing you can hold onto sometimes is | :40:36. | :40:39. | |
hope that things will get better. Thank you, Sue. Still to come, | :40:40. | :40:46. | |
campaigning for the London mayoral election. We are continuing our back | :40:47. | :40:50. | |
of the cab quiz questions with key candidates. Norman spit is talking | :40:51. | :41:00. | |
to Psion Berry. -- Norman Spitz is talking to Sian Berry. | :41:01. | :41:07. | |
When Louise Coast-Smith was diagnosed with a brain tumour, | :41:08. | :41:09. | |
her family were determined to live life to the full and they | :41:10. | :41:12. | |
Now after her death, her husband and two teenage | :41:13. | :41:15. | |
daughters are honouring her memory by completing it. | :41:16. | :41:17. | |
Here's Ben with a summary of the news. | :41:18. | :41:20. | |
Campaigners who want the UK to leave the European Union have accused | :41:21. | :41:23. | |
the government of scaring voters and wasting money. | :41:24. | :41:27. | |
Their anger concerns a leaflet being sent to every household, | :41:28. | :41:30. | |
setting out the case for staying in the EU. | :41:31. | :41:33. | |
There'll also be social media posts and a new website. | :41:34. | :41:41. | |
David Cameron says the campaign will provide the public with key | :41:42. | :41:44. | |
Iceland's governing coalition has chosen a new Prime Minister, | :41:45. | :41:52. | |
after the leaked Panama papers caused Sigmundur | :41:53. | :41:54. | |
The Fisheries Minister will be his successor until | :41:55. | :41:58. | |
There have been public protests in Rejkjavik calling for the entire | :41:59. | :42:03. | |
A 14 year old girl who went missing almost two weeks ago, | :42:04. | :42:10. | |
has been found safe and well by police in Wigan. | :42:11. | :42:13. | |
Concerns had been growing for the safety of Jade Lynch | :42:14. | :42:16. | |
following her disappearance in St Helens 11 days ago. | :42:17. | :42:19. | |
Police say support from the public was vital in finding Jade | :42:20. | :42:22. | |
after her sister appealed for her return. | :42:23. | :42:27. | |
A BBC Freedom of Information request has revealed inconsistencies | :42:28. | :42:29. | |
in specialist mental health treatment for outpatients | :42:30. | :42:33. | |
In some parts of the country over the past four years, waiting times | :42:34. | :42:40. | |
In Manchester, the average wait is 182 days, but only | :42:41. | :42:46. | |
around 20 days in Dorset, Dudley and north-east London. | :42:47. | :42:50. | |
The Department of Health says it's investing ?150 million in services | :42:51. | :42:53. | |
for young patients over the next five years. | :42:54. | :43:03. | |
Moore at ten o'clock. Now let's join or leave for the sports headlines. | :43:04. | :43:15. | |
The first leg of Manchester City's first Champions League quarterfinal | :43:16. | :43:19. | |
ended in a two draw against Paris Saint-Germain last night. -- 2-2. | :43:20. | :43:26. | |
Joe Hart saved a penalty. Kevin De Bruyne and Fernandinho scored for | :43:27. | :43:30. | |
City. There was a shock in Germany as Wolfsburg beat ten time European | :43:31. | :43:38. | |
champions Real Madrid 2-0. To night, Jurgen Klopp returns to his old | :43:39. | :43:44. | |
club, Borussia Dortmund, with Liverpool in the Europa League | :43:45. | :43:48. | |
quarterfinals. We are live in Germany in the next hour. And the | :43:49. | :43:52. | |
Masters tees off this afternoon. Rory McIlroy still waiting for his | :43:53. | :43:56. | |
first green jacket. He is in the final group in Augusta. | :43:57. | :44:02. | |
Coming up, we will be speaking to the family completing the bucket | :44:03. | :44:11. | |
list made by their mum, who died 18 months ago. | :44:12. | :44:13. | |
All this week we're hearing from some of the candidates standing | :44:14. | :44:15. | |
Our political guru, Norman Smith, has taken Labour's Sadiq Khan | :44:16. | :44:19. | |
and Conservative's Zac Goldsmith for a spin in his cab. | :44:20. | :44:22. | |
And today he's joined by the Green Party's Sian Berry. | :44:23. | :44:28. | |
Thanks very much. I should not really be in a cab today. I am with | :44:29. | :44:37. | |
the Green mayoral candidate. We should be on our bicycles but we | :44:38. | :44:40. | |
will pass on that because it is damp. What are the key issues for | :44:41. | :44:46. | |
the Greens? Transport is obviously a huge issue. The problem in London is | :44:47. | :44:52. | |
there are too many cars. This is an issue any new mayor will have to | :44:53. | :44:56. | |
deal with. Traffic is increasing. We need to not make it worse by | :44:57. | :45:03. | |
building new roads. It would just increase air pollution and traffic | :45:04. | :45:06. | |
across a wide area. We cannot keep widening the road is to make more | :45:07. | :45:12. | |
room. We have to reduce traffic. What about banning people from | :45:13. | :45:17. | |
driving cars on alternate days? That is an emergency measure for air | :45:18. | :45:19. | |
pollution reasons. On certain days you could have | :45:20. | :45:29. | |
restrictions on certain types of vehicles coming in. You could run | :45:30. | :45:33. | |
different types of schemes like that. What is most important is | :45:34. | :45:37. | |
having a long-term plan that gives people better options. That is the | :45:38. | :45:42. | |
only way to do it and we need to be investing in new cycle lanes and | :45:43. | :45:49. | |
shifting road space the away from traffic and into more efficient | :45:50. | :45:54. | |
methods that we have. What about the congestion charge? It costs you more | :45:55. | :46:00. | |
to get the bus and tube in and out. The cost of public transport has | :46:01. | :46:04. | |
gone up more quickly than the congestion charge, which isn't fair. | :46:05. | :46:09. | |
I would bring down the fares to get people onto public transport and I | :46:10. | :46:12. | |
would do that by bringing down the fares in outer London to the same | :46:13. | :46:18. | |
levels that people pay in central London. I would get rid of the zone | :46:19. | :46:23. | |
system which is anachronistic and snobbery. We need to pay for that | :46:24. | :46:26. | |
and my fares plan is costed and paid for because we need a new smarter | :46:27. | :46:31. | |
congestion charge system. All of the businesses are calling for that. We | :46:32. | :46:35. | |
know that you will oppose Heathrow expansion and what people don't know | :46:36. | :46:39. | |
is that you would like to close down City Airport. What happened to the | :46:40. | :46:44. | |
people working there? At the moment, it is a convenient place for people | :46:45. | :46:48. | |
in the City to use. There are not many flights and it is a niche | :46:49. | :46:52. | |
airport. When Crossrail opens you will be able to get from the City to | :46:53. | :46:57. | |
Heathrow in half an hour and to me that is an opportunity to reuse the | :46:58. | :47:02. | |
space that their board uses up, 500,000 square metres. OK, but what | :47:03. | :47:07. | |
about the 2000 people who work at the airport? Goodbye to their jobs? | :47:08. | :47:12. | |
The other airports can easily absorb the flights and therefore the jobs | :47:13. | :47:17. | |
as well. Then we could build a new quarter for London. Holmes, | :47:18. | :47:20. | |
business, universities, and there would be many more jobs on that site | :47:21. | :47:26. | |
if we redeveloped it so it isn't just for aeroplanes. The London | :47:27. | :47:32. | |
questions. You are a Camden woman, aren't you? So this is easy. The | :47:33. | :47:37. | |
Northern line. You use it, this is easy. Which branch of the Northern | :47:38. | :47:41. | |
line is Mornington Crescent on? The Charing Cross branch. Easy. Bridges. | :47:42. | :47:48. | |
Westminster, Lambeth, what next? Southwark? No, Boxall. What started | :47:49. | :47:55. | |
at pudding lane? The great fire of London. First and oldest Indian | :47:56. | :48:02. | |
restaurant in London? 1926. Last question since we are in a cab, what | :48:03. | :48:06. | |
our cab drivers talking about when they say it is time for Churchill? | :48:07. | :48:13. | |
No idea. Tell me! Time for a meal because Winston Churchill introduced | :48:14. | :48:16. | |
legislation to say that cab drivers didn't have to take a fair if they | :48:17. | :48:23. | |
were hungry. We learn new everyday. Workers rights, I like it! That is | :48:24. | :48:28. | |
the Green Party's agenda for London with the mayoral candidate Sian | :48:29. | :48:32. | |
Berry. Thank you very much. See you later. | :48:33. | :48:34. | |
In total, 12 candidates are hoping to succeed Boris Johnson as mayor | :48:35. | :48:37. | |
of London in the election on the 5th May. | :48:38. | :48:39. | |
You can find a full list of them on the BBC News site. | :48:40. | :48:45. | |
And if you want to watch Norman's interviews | :48:46. | :48:47. | |
with Zac Goldsmith, Sadiq Khan or Peter Whittle, | :48:48. | :48:49. | |
you can find them on our programme page - bbc.co.uk/victoria. | :48:50. | :48:53. | |
And tomorrow, Norman will be talking to Caroline Pidgeon, | :48:54. | :48:55. | |
Coming up: Two teenage girls who walked away laughing after they | :48:56. | :49:07. | |
batted a woman to death will be sentenced today. We will be speaking | :49:08. | :49:11. | |
to a psychologist to ask what leads children to behave in this way and | :49:12. | :49:13. | |
whether they can be rehabilitated. When Louise Coast-Smith | :49:14. | :49:16. | |
was diagnosed with a brain tumour, she became determined to live | :49:17. | :49:19. | |
the rest of her life to the full. Even when undergoing treatment she, | :49:20. | :49:22. | |
her husband Alastair and their two daughters, | :49:23. | :49:24. | |
Rebecca and Natasha, tried to cram in as many | :49:25. | :49:25. | |
life-enriching experiences as possible, from going on exotic | :49:26. | :49:28. | |
holidays to taking part But sadly, in 2014, Louise was given | :49:29. | :49:31. | |
eight weeks to live, and the family wrote a bucket list | :49:32. | :49:40. | |
of things they still wanted to do. Now, Alistair, Rebecca and Natasha | :49:41. | :49:43. | |
are working their way through that list - and their grief - | :49:44. | :49:46. | |
together and raising They're here to tell | :49:47. | :49:48. | |
us about their story. Thank you for coming in and talking | :49:49. | :49:58. | |
to us. You did live life to the full, because this shadow of a brain | :49:59. | :50:01. | |
tumour was hanging over you for a very long time, wasn't it, Alistair? | :50:02. | :50:07. | |
It was always there from 1998 when she was originally diagnosed and had | :50:08. | :50:11. | |
the operation to remove it. We took a very active view that we would not | :50:12. | :50:15. | |
let it restrain us and we would live life to the full, above all starting | :50:16. | :50:19. | |
a family after that, which was a big decision to take. At that point, did | :50:20. | :50:25. | |
you start doing things effectively as they little? We call it a bucket | :50:26. | :50:32. | |
list but actually it was a way of living. We always wanted to be very | :50:33. | :50:36. | |
active, we always had planned for the future, and realise that weekend | :50:37. | :50:40. | |
is booked out for the whole year, going away, camping. Louise loved | :50:41. | :50:45. | |
camping, she was obsessive about it. Basically being very active with the | :50:46. | :50:50. | |
girls as they grew up. Then as she deteriorated towards the end, we | :50:51. | :50:55. | |
still had a lot of stuff, lots of things. A dynamic woman, your mum, | :50:56. | :51:03. | |
it sounds like. Definitely. What things did you do that were | :51:04. | :51:08. | |
particularly special? We did so much together. We would go on holidays | :51:09. | :51:11. | |
every year. We still do. But we would go camping all the time. She | :51:12. | :51:15. | |
loved it. Every time we went out, she was eager to do stuff with us, | :51:16. | :51:21. | |
to be outdoors, and she was up for anything. A good example is that at | :51:22. | :51:26. | |
the beginning of the summer holidays we would go away for the entire six | :51:27. | :51:32. | |
weeks. She hated that the holidays were so short. Some parents find | :51:33. | :51:38. | |
holidays difficult but for her it was the most important thing, having | :51:39. | :51:42. | |
time with the kids and doing various different things. She died 18 months | :51:43. | :51:46. | |
ago and you have been nonstop since, is that fair to say? That is fair. | :51:47. | :51:53. | |
What sort of things have you done? Lots of things. Before Louise died, | :51:54. | :51:59. | |
we booked a skydiving, indoor skydiving experience, which we did. | :52:00. | :52:04. | |
There were specific things, like go to the Imperial War Museum. With it | :52:05. | :52:09. | |
being 2014, she was keen for us and the kids to experience that. And the | :52:10. | :52:14. | |
Lowry in Manchester. She enjoyed art and wanted kids to enjoy it and see | :52:15. | :52:18. | |
that you can express yourself in many ways. She found it inspiring in | :52:19. | :52:22. | |
that sense, the Lowry, so we went there to experience it. Listening to | :52:23. | :52:31. | |
you all, it is inspiring to see how through such adversity, there is | :52:32. | :52:34. | |
this absolute appetite and desire to live. Absolutely. That is how she | :52:35. | :52:41. | |
lived. She wouldn't let anything stop her or put her down. The fact | :52:42. | :52:45. | |
that she had a brain tumour didn't stop doing anything whatsoever. It | :52:46. | :52:49. | |
was a background thing that she had to live with, and we all did, but we | :52:50. | :52:54. | |
still got on and did what we wanted to do. A good example of that, she | :52:55. | :52:58. | |
used to play the flute and the cello but she thought she was not so good | :52:59. | :53:02. | |
at that, so she adopted new things. Running was something she got into, | :53:03. | :53:06. | |
so she ran the London Marathon in 2006, even though she was never a | :53:07. | :53:11. | |
run by nature. And she did various other challenges over the course of | :53:12. | :53:17. | |
her time, so she did a coast-to-coast cycle ride with some | :53:18. | :53:24. | |
friends. She did the Edinburgh moonwalk for breast cancer. She did | :53:25. | :53:33. | |
a cycle ride from Edinburgh to St Andrews, 70 miles, for the brain | :53:34. | :53:37. | |
tumour charity, which is something she has raised money for over the | :53:38. | :53:43. | |
years and we are keen to highlight the fact that it doesn't get the | :53:44. | :53:46. | |
research funding that it deserves, from our point of view. She raised | :53:47. | :53:51. | |
money doing that. That cycle ride was actually two weeks into her | :53:52. | :53:56. | |
radiotherapy. Gosh. How much has all of this helped you to get through | :53:57. | :54:01. | |
your grief? A lot. I know that I want to carry on because I know that | :54:02. | :54:08. | |
she was like that. I wouldn't let something stopped me. I want to make | :54:09. | :54:12. | |
her proud now and not sit and grieve loads. I want to go out there and do | :54:13. | :54:18. | |
stuff and do well to make her proud. Good for you. You must be proud of | :54:19. | :54:25. | |
your mum. Of course. She did so many amazing things. The marathon, the | :54:26. | :54:29. | |
cycle rides, and she has raised so much money. It is a big inspiration. | :54:30. | :54:37. | |
What is the best thing that you have done on the list? That is quite | :54:38. | :54:43. | |
hard. I really enjoyed the Lowry. It was quite inspiring to see different | :54:44. | :54:47. | |
sorts of art. I know that she would enjoy it because she loved paintings | :54:48. | :54:51. | |
as well. It is like passing her inspiration on to me. Tell me about | :54:52. | :54:57. | |
the panto. Did you all do it together? That is something. What | :54:58. | :55:05. | |
happened? Well, it is just the local pantomime and everyone gets involved | :55:06. | :55:09. | |
and it is a good community event. The one only to together was no | :55:10. | :55:17. | |
white. Who was what? -- the one we did together was snow-white. My dad | :55:18. | :55:24. | |
was the game, which was quite embarrassing. I was in the chorus. | :55:25. | :55:37. | |
Do you feel like you are honouring Louise and that she is living on | :55:38. | :55:41. | |
through what you are doing? Absolutely. It was the way she | :55:42. | :55:45. | |
lived. She inculcated in the girls the way to live and it is inspiring. | :55:46. | :55:51. | |
When she died a lot of people said some very flattering and nice things | :55:52. | :55:57. | |
about her. When you met her, she was full of enthusiasm and joie de vivre | :55:58. | :56:01. | |
that was very powerful. People took that from her. People don't always | :56:02. | :56:07. | |
know how to respond when somebody dies but I guess your approach has | :56:08. | :56:11. | |
actually made it quite easy for all of those around you to deal with it, | :56:12. | :56:19. | |
do you think? People find it hard to bring it up but we don't want her | :56:20. | :56:25. | |
memory to go. Not that it would, but we want to talk about her because | :56:26. | :56:29. | |
she was our mother, my dad's wife, and such a big part of our life that | :56:30. | :56:33. | |
we don't want people to avoid talking about her. We love talking | :56:34. | :56:38. | |
about her and keeping her alive. People watching at getting in touch. | :56:39. | :56:43. | |
Brave family talking about their wonderful mother's bucket lift. Good | :56:44. | :56:48. | |
luck to them. And this one, can't cope with any more emotion. Makes | :56:49. | :56:53. | |
you realise life is precious and should be lived to the full. You are | :56:54. | :56:58. | |
a family of list makers. What are the big things on the horizon for | :56:59. | :57:06. | |
you? Ahead of us? We used to do various city trips and we haven't | :57:07. | :57:13. | |
been to Liverpool. We almost went. We were passing through on a trip to | :57:14. | :57:19. | |
Ulster. And the girls have got some big school foreign trips coming up, | :57:20. | :57:23. | |
which will be individual but big things for them. So carry on gaining | :57:24. | :57:26. | |
new experiences and travelling a bit. Thank you for coming on. It is | :57:27. | :57:37. | |
good to talk to you. Still to come, we are talking about her social | :57:38. | :57:40. | |
issues such as debt can drive those with mental health issues to | :57:41. | :57:47. | |
despair. One in two have attempted to or thought about ending their own | :57:48. | :57:53. | |
lives as a result. Now we can catch up with the weather. Some better | :57:54. | :57:58. | |
weather in prospect for much of the UK. Tomorrow, we are dodging the | :57:59. | :58:05. | |
downpours once again. An area of rain has been affecting parts of | :58:06. | :58:09. | |
North West England and Wales today. It is spreading to the South. It may | :58:10. | :58:16. | |
not clear the South until the afternoon. Showers down the eastern | :58:17. | :58:20. | |
part of the UK leaving many of us in the West with quieter, sunnier | :58:21. | :58:25. | |
weather to end the day. Still on the cool side but the winds will be | :58:26. | :58:29. | |
easing a touch, so that is an improvement. Height averages of nine | :58:30. | :58:34. | |
to 12. The process of the winds easing will continue into tonight | :58:35. | :58:38. | |
and with the showers fading away, most of us will be dry after | :58:39. | :58:42. | |
midnight. It will turn quite cold with some frost in places. I | :58:43. | :58:48. | |
suggested a better day on the way for tomorrow. You may catch a shower | :58:49. | :58:52. | |
along the eastern parts of the UK, may be heavy, but most of us will | :58:53. | :58:57. | |
not. With wintry sunshine it will be pleasant. This weather system will | :58:58. | :59:00. | |
bring rain across Northern Ireland as we go through the afternoon and | :59:01. | :59:04. | |
as you can see it is pushing into western parts of the UK into the | :59:05. | :59:09. | |
evening tomorrow. This band of rain on Saturday morning could be sitting | :59:10. | :59:13. | |
along the eastern side of the UK and across much of Scotland. It | :59:14. | :59:17. | |
gradually pulls away and then Saturday offers sunshine and showers | :59:18. | :59:18. | |
and Sunday looks similar. Welcome to the programme | :59:19. | :59:23. | |
if you've just joined us. Coming up before 11: A 14-page | :59:24. | :59:27. | |
leaflet is being sent to every household in the UK - | :59:28. | :59:31. | |
at a cost of ?9 million to the taxpayer - sets out the case | :59:32. | :59:34. | |
for remaining in the European Union. Critics say it's a disgraceful | :59:35. | :59:37. | |
use of public money. Almost half of people with mental | :59:38. | :59:41. | |
health problems have considered or attempted to end their own lives | :59:42. | :59:44. | |
in the last two years, as a result of social | :59:45. | :59:47. | |
factors such as debt, housing and welfare problems, | :59:48. | :59:51. | |
or relationship problems. This is all too common, and | :59:52. | :00:03. | |
especially in young men, because they just do not... The lives of his | :00:04. | :00:11. | |
friends have been shattered. At the funeral, I thought they should be | :00:12. | :00:16. | |
going to parties, not their friend's funeral. More on that in a moment. | :00:17. | :00:18. | |
A barrister who woke up to find his teenager | :00:19. | :00:20. | |
lover dead alongside him, tells the BBC how a normal Monday | :00:21. | :00:22. | |
turned into the most traumatic experience of his life. | :00:23. | :00:25. | |
He faces jail for supplying drugs and admits he only | :00:26. | :00:27. | |
While the ambulance took over trying to resuscitate Miguel, I was being | :00:28. | :00:45. | |
guarded by police. The most traumatic experience one has ever | :00:46. | :00:49. | |
been through. You have woken up next to a dead person, you have tried | :00:50. | :00:52. | |
CPR, and you are treated like a criminal. | :00:53. | :00:56. | |
Here's Ben Brown in the BBC Newsroom with a summary of today's news. | :00:57. | :01:02. | |
The government has defended its decision to deliver a leaflet | :01:03. | :01:06. | |
to every home in the UK, setting out its case for remaining | :01:07. | :01:09. | |
The move has been criticised by Leave campaigners | :01:10. | :01:14. | |
who say the nine million pound cost is outrageous. | :01:15. | :01:16. | |
In the coming weeks you can expect a delivery of what looks like | :01:17. | :01:22. | |
Over 14 pages, it sets out why the government believes | :01:23. | :01:27. | |
it is in Britain's interest to stay in the EU. | :01:28. | :01:31. | |
But those who disagree are furious that the government are using money | :01:32. | :01:34. | |
It is crazy to use that much taxpayer money on stuff to scare | :01:35. | :01:43. | |
people and to stampede people in one direction. | :01:44. | :01:51. | |
What we want is a proper and informed debate. | :01:52. | :01:55. | |
And if you are going to use taxpayers' money you should allow | :01:56. | :01:58. | |
that for the other people to use it as well. | :01:59. | :02:00. | |
It will be sent to all 27 million UK households. | :02:01. | :02:02. | |
That's more than the ?7 million limit that each side | :02:03. | :02:08. | |
The government says it is giving the public the facts that they want. | :02:09. | :02:16. | |
It is important that people understand what | :02:17. | :02:20. | |
the government research shows, what the government's information | :02:21. | :02:22. | |
shows and they can use to make their own decisions. | :02:23. | :02:27. | |
Those who want to leave the European Union say | :02:28. | :02:29. | |
that the distribution may be legal but it flies in the face | :02:30. | :02:32. | |
of the government's commitment to ensure a free | :02:33. | :02:34. | |
Iceland's governing coalition has chosen a new Prime Minister, | :02:35. | :02:44. | |
after the leaked Panama papers caused Sigmundur | :02:45. | :02:47. | |
The Fisheries Minister will be his successor until | :02:48. | :02:52. | |
There have been public protests in Rejkjavik calling for the entire | :02:53. | :02:56. | |
Four migrant children are arriving in the UK from Calais anytime now, | :02:57. | :03:02. | |
after being allowed to stay with their families | :03:03. | :03:06. | |
here while their asylum claims are assessed. | :03:07. | :03:08. | |
The teenagers are from Syria and Afghanistan, and are among | :03:09. | :03:10. | |
the first to arrive under newly-enforced EU laws. | :03:11. | :03:14. | |
The charity Citizens UK is calling for the government to do more | :03:15. | :03:17. | |
to help other children in similar situations. | :03:18. | :03:23. | |
NHS England says that the second day of the latest strike by junior | :03:24. | :03:26. | |
doctors is likely to be more difficult for the health service. | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
They are providing only emergency care, because of a dispute | :03:31. | :03:32. | |
with the government about the imposition of a new contract. | :03:33. | :03:35. | |
More than 5,000 procedures have been postponed as a result | :03:36. | :03:39. | |
of the 48-hour walkout, which began at eight | :03:40. | :03:41. | |
A 14 year old girl who went missing almost two weeks ago, | :03:42. | :03:49. | |
has been found safe and well by police in Wigan. | :03:50. | :03:52. | |
Concerns had been growing for the safety of Jade Lynch | :03:53. | :03:55. | |
following her disappearance in St Helens 11 days ago. | :03:56. | :03:57. | |
Police say support from the public was vital in finding Jade | :03:58. | :04:01. | |
after her sister appealed for her return. | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
There's more bad news for Marks and Spencer this morning. | :04:07. | :04:08. | |
Clothing and home sales at the famous retailer fell by 2.7% | :04:09. | :04:11. | |
The firm's new chief executive, Steve Rowe, says he'll remain | :04:12. | :04:18. | |
personally in charge of that part of the business because he's | :04:19. | :04:21. | |
Food sales were flat during the same period. | :04:22. | :04:26. | |
That's a summary of the latest BBC News. | :04:27. | :04:32. | |
We are going to be talking to two women love that operations cancelled | :04:33. | :04:46. | |
because of the junior doctors strike. Have you been affected? -- | :04:47. | :04:55. | |
who have had operations cancelled. If you text, you will be charged at | :04:56. | :04:58. | |
the standard network rate. Time for sport now, | :04:59. | :04:59. | |
and Olly Foster is back with news Absolutely, it is all about European | :05:00. | :05:10. | |
football this week. Manchester City have got two pressures away goals to | :05:11. | :05:17. | |
take into their second leg against Paris Saint-Germain. Attention now | :05:18. | :05:21. | |
turns to the Europa League quarterfinals. The only British | :05:22. | :05:26. | |
representative is Liverpool. They face Borussia Dortmund. Conor | :05:27. | :05:29. | |
McNamara would be commentating on five live later. He is in position | :05:30. | :05:38. | |
nice and early. Let's Twell on the match in Paris last night. | :05:39. | :05:42. | |
Manchester City breaking new ground. They will have real belief now that | :05:43. | :05:48. | |
they can get into the semifinals? Overall it has been a disappointing | :05:49. | :05:52. | |
season for Manchester City domestically. But they have a chance | :05:53. | :05:55. | |
to make an impact in Europe. They have never been this far. To get a | :05:56. | :05:59. | |
draw against Paris Saint-Germain in Paris is not a bad result. The last | :06:00. | :06:07. | |
39 home games in Europe for Paris Saint-Germain, they have only been | :06:08. | :06:12. | |
beaten once, and that was by Barcelona. For Manchester City to | :06:13. | :06:16. | |
get the two away goals, they will be pleased. Both teams will be | :06:17. | :06:19. | |
disappointed with their defending but Manchester City will take place. | :06:20. | :06:24. | |
It has been a good week for Germany. Bayern Munich got their win on | :06:25. | :06:29. | |
Tuesday. Last night Wolfsburg stunned ten time European champions | :06:30. | :06:34. | |
Real Madrid. I was in Dortmund last night and all of the attention was | :06:35. | :06:40. | |
on Wolfsburg against Real Madrid. They did really well. They started | :06:41. | :06:47. | |
brightly. They got the early goals. And for Wolfsburg, they will see | :06:48. | :06:52. | |
this as a real scalp. They have got a little bit of wriggle room going | :06:53. | :06:57. | |
into the second leg. Real Madrid, who had beaten Barcelona four days | :06:58. | :07:00. | |
previously, I think it was a real come down to earth. Ronaldo was | :07:01. | :07:09. | |
poor, Gareth Bale never got going. Wolfsburg wanted it more. To the | :07:10. | :07:14. | |
Europa League, this is such a standout tie, Dortmund against | :07:15. | :07:17. | |
Liverpool. Jurgen Klopp returning to his old stomping ground. It is a | :07:18. | :07:25. | |
place where he is revered still? Yes, they erected a joke sign two | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
point Jurgen Klopp to which dressing room he goes to. It has been done in | :07:30. | :07:35. | |
a friendly manner. It is a quick return to Dortmund for Juergen | :07:36. | :07:39. | |
Klopp. Can you imagine if Alex Ferguson brought another team back | :07:40. | :07:43. | |
to old Trafford to play Manchester United? It is that kind of welcome. | :07:44. | :07:49. | |
Klopp had huge success with Dortmund. He won the Bundesliga, he | :07:50. | :07:54. | |
won the double, he got to the Champions League final. He brought | :07:55. | :07:57. | |
great success with very attractive football. They love him here. | :07:58. | :08:03. | |
Normally at these Uefa press conferences, the media are only | :08:04. | :08:07. | |
allowed to film the first ten minutes of training. Klopp said they | :08:08. | :08:11. | |
could stay for the whole training session. That shows how comfortable | :08:12. | :08:18. | |
he is. The cameras were trained on him, not the team. Sometimes you | :08:19. | :08:22. | |
just want ten minutes to get off to do your work! There was some talk | :08:23. | :08:26. | |
that the host broadcaster was going to have a camera on Klopp for 90 | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
minutes. That has been shelved. The attention will be on him. Will he be | :08:32. | :08:36. | |
able to focus? I think you will be pleased. At the end of the day he | :08:37. | :08:40. | |
will want to win this game. If it takes pressure off his players, I | :08:41. | :08:47. | |
think Klopp will gladly absorb that extra pressure. There is a museum | :08:48. | :08:56. | |
here. Inside, one of the prize replicas, not replicas, but the real | :08:57. | :09:05. | |
thing, were the glasses he broke a few years ago when, in celebration | :09:06. | :09:10. | |
of a win, Klopp managed to break his glasses. That is how highly regarded | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
he is. And yet the attention will be on Klopp To night. Some people are | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
talking about it being the Juergen Klopp derby. It is a quick return. | :09:20. | :09:24. | |
He will not be celebrating if Dortmund score. It's doable | :09:25. | :09:30. | |
goal-scorer he will be celebrated. -- if Liverpool scored he will be | :09:31. | :09:32. | |
celebrating. Conor McNamara. Very jealous because | :09:33. | :09:43. | |
the Dortmund Stadium is on my bucket list. The Masters, the first major | :09:44. | :09:48. | |
of the year, tees off this afternoon. We have shown a Gary | :09:49. | :09:55. | |
player's hole in one area. There were a few decent putts. Nick Faldo. | :09:56. | :10:03. | |
You think that is way word. Where EC aiming for? What happens. Faldo | :10:04. | :10:10. | |
reads the green to absolute perfection. Will it make it? He | :10:11. | :10:17. | |
reels it in like a fish. Will it drop? It will. Otherwise we would | :10:18. | :10:24. | |
not show it! Then he plays to the galleries. Here he goes. Quicker | :10:25. | :10:32. | |
than me! After every bulletin I do that in the newsroom. I do not get | :10:33. | :10:38. | |
that kind of reaction though. I will be back in about 20 minutes. | :10:39. | :10:41. | |
I have seen you! Housing, debt and welfare - | :10:42. | :10:45. | |
all social issues that are claimed to be leading one in two people | :10:46. | :10:47. | |
with mental health problems The charity, Mind, is today warning | :10:48. | :10:50. | |
that the type of local services that help those very people are under | :10:51. | :10:55. | |
threat from spending cuts, despite the government saying it has | :10:56. | :10:58. | |
increased mental health funding to an estimated | :10:59. | :11:00. | |
?11.7 billion last year. More than 1,500 people who have used | :11:01. | :11:04. | |
mental health services in the last two years were surveyed | :11:05. | :11:08. | |
on behalf of Mind. Out of those, 41% said they had | :11:09. | :11:11. | |
considered or attempted suicide because of financial | :11:12. | :11:17. | |
or housing pressures. 29% said that a fear of losing | :11:18. | :11:20. | |
or the loss of welfare benefits. Losing their job or difficulties | :11:21. | :11:26. | |
at work was the reason, 29% of people said they had | :11:27. | :11:29. | |
considered taking their own life And a further, 29% said it | :11:30. | :11:32. | |
relationship breakdown Earlier I spoke to sue Jackson who | :11:33. | :11:46. | |
has suffered from mental health issues. Tom Pollard. Jake Mills, who | :11:47. | :11:53. | |
tried to take his own life after getting into problems with money. He | :11:54. | :11:59. | |
has since started a charity. And Ann Thorne, whose son took his own life. | :12:00. | :12:05. | |
At the inquest, worry over his death was described as a contributory | :12:06. | :12:08. | |
factor. People would help -- mental health | :12:09. | :12:12. | |
problems are more likely to need support from benefits have problems | :12:13. | :12:16. | |
with housing. When they do experience those issues, it has a | :12:17. | :12:20. | |
more profound impact on people. It can become difficult for people to | :12:21. | :12:24. | |
deal with their everyday lives. All of this experience these issues but | :12:25. | :12:27. | |
for people with mental health issues it is a double whammy. The local | :12:28. | :12:32. | |
services we are talking about with our campaign can really be the | :12:33. | :12:35. | |
difference between life and death, for people who are suffering with | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
those problems, having summary to support them through really can make | :12:40. | :12:45. | |
the difference to people between not being able to cope and being able to | :12:46. | :12:52. | |
cope. He was 23. He had been at university and had dropped out. | :12:53. | :12:58. | |
Everyone in the university, this seemed to be normal. How many | :12:59. | :13:07. | |
students do not have problems with money? Yes, I had been asked to pay | :13:08. | :13:13. | |
his rent a couple of times. He had a big student overdraft with the bank. | :13:14. | :13:20. | |
Yes, I was aware of it. But was I worried that he was going to take in | :13:21. | :13:25. | |
his own life? No. I was just not aware of the shocking statistics. | :13:26. | :13:32. | |
And I think my view is, I think the debt possibly was the straw that | :13:33. | :13:38. | |
broke the camel's back. I do not believe he killed himself just | :13:39. | :13:43. | |
because he was in debt. From what I understand now about suicide, it is | :13:44. | :13:48. | |
very complex. But as your article is showing, it can be that final thing | :13:49. | :13:53. | |
that pushes someone over the edge. They're coping skills have gone by | :13:54. | :13:57. | |
that point. Whether it is losing your job, debt or relationship, that | :13:58. | :14:02. | |
can be the final factor. The thing with young men is the fact | :14:03. | :14:07. | |
that they just do not talk. It is all very well to talk about these | :14:08. | :14:13. | |
resources, but my view is that every body has a role to play. We need to | :14:14. | :14:17. | |
talk about suicide and looking out for each other. If we know somebody | :14:18. | :14:27. | |
who is suicidal, talk to them. GPs need to be trained. We can all | :14:28. | :14:33. | |
contribute by talking about it and removing this stigma. Jake, you | :14:34. | :14:40. | |
tried to take your own life. What was going on in your life that made | :14:41. | :14:44. | |
you feel you could not go on? There were a lot of things. It was not | :14:45. | :14:48. | |
anything in particular. I probably could not tell you a moment when | :14:49. | :14:54. | |
what made me depressed, or when I became depressed, but there were a | :14:55. | :15:02. | |
lot of different things going on. Relationship issues, money issues. I | :15:03. | :15:07. | |
was on the dole. That for me was a significant, massively low moment. A | :15:08. | :15:13. | |
lot of different issues. They'll just built up. When you are | :15:14. | :15:19. | |
depressed, something that might seem not that big a deal for some people, | :15:20. | :15:23. | |
can be the biggest thing and the biggest deal in the world for | :15:24. | :15:24. | |
others. And it is just that building on top | :15:25. | :15:34. | |
of each other that can really way so heavily on you and that is how it | :15:35. | :15:40. | |
was for me. It was the combination of different things. Each and every | :15:41. | :15:43. | |
one of them felt like the worst thing in the world. The point that | :15:44. | :15:50. | |
has just been made, that lady saying that she wants to talk about her | :15:51. | :15:55. | |
son, and nobody knows what to say. That is the problem. That is the | :15:56. | :15:59. | |
main problem. We don't know what to say and people don't know enough | :16:00. | :16:04. | |
about suicide, depression and mental illness. We simply don't know enough | :16:05. | :16:07. | |
about it to be able to talk about it and that is what we need to be | :16:08. | :16:16. | |
addressing. I experienced problems with the neighbours, and I am quite | :16:17. | :16:21. | |
a resilient person and I had a good job and I was managing my life, but | :16:22. | :16:29. | |
because of the intensity of the issues, I reached a point where I | :16:30. | :16:34. | |
couldn't cope with things and it was a very low point in my life. So how | :16:35. | :16:45. | |
did you feel? I felt extremely desperate and at times I just | :16:46. | :16:49. | |
couldn't see any light at the end of the tunnel. It made me feel very | :16:50. | :16:56. | |
depressed. It affected my appetite, it affected my sleep, it affected my | :16:57. | :17:03. | |
whole life. I just found I couldn't cope. Sue, Jake, Tom and Anne | :17:04. | :17:14. | |
talking to me earlier. If you want help on any of the issues we have | :17:15. | :17:19. | |
been talking about, you can visit the BBC action line website. Rodney | :17:20. | :17:24. | |
saying, I suffer from bad mental health, after getting sacked with | :17:25. | :17:28. | |
too much time off work. Even with a doctor note, I was failed on the | :17:29. | :17:34. | |
medical. Only part of my mortgage was paid and now I have had an | :17:35. | :17:39. | |
eviction notice. I have tried taking my life a couple of times. I am 52 | :17:40. | :17:44. | |
and I have worked all my life. A tweet from Burnley. Good to see the | :17:45. | :17:48. | |
median now sympathetic to mental illness. And Jane says, benefit cuts | :17:49. | :17:54. | |
and loss of benefits underpins lots of problems with mental health. | :17:55. | :17:59. | |
People cannot recover while terrified. | :18:00. | :18:06. | |
Two teenage girls who walked away laughing after they battered | :18:07. | :18:11. | |
a 39-year-old woman to death will be sentenced today. | :18:12. | :18:13. | |
We ask a forensic psychologist whether young criminals like this | :18:14. | :18:16. | |
At the beginning of last year, Miguel Jimenez, | :18:17. | :18:20. | |
an 18-year-old man from Colombia, was found dead in his | :18:21. | :18:22. | |
The man who found him was his partner Henry Hendron, | :18:23. | :18:28. | |
a young barrister enjoying, until that day, a glittering career. | :18:29. | :18:34. | |
Mr Hendron supplied the drugs that killed his partner. | :18:35. | :18:36. | |
pleaded guilty at the Old Bailey and he'll be sentenced potentially | :18:37. | :18:42. | |
He excerpts response 34 his situation and does not want special | :18:43. | :18:53. | |
treatment from the courts. He has decided to speak to the BBC about | :18:54. | :18:56. | |
what he says is a huge and underreported issue. | :18:57. | :19:03. | |
We have talked about it before on this programme - the drug fuelled | :19:04. | :19:06. | |
binges that gay men in particular are involved in at potential great | :19:07. | :19:08. | |
It's been labelled "chemsex" and has been described by the Royal College | :19:09. | :19:12. | |
of GPs as a rapidly emerging pattern of drug use. | :19:13. | :19:15. | |
We should warn you, you might not want children to hear what he says | :19:16. | :19:18. | |
when he talked to the Today programme presenter Justin Webb. | :19:19. | :19:21. | |
We'll be talking about this issue for the next 15 minutes or so. | :19:22. | :19:24. | |
We had gone to the vet to take our dog to | :19:25. | :19:28. | |
We had dinner, we had some wine, my partner had quite | :19:29. | :19:31. | |
at midnight he just said, shall we have some drugs? | :19:32. | :19:35. | |
I was working the next day, so I didn't have any on | :19:36. | :19:38. | |
that occasion, but he did and had some G. | :19:39. | :19:40. | |
I woke up and he was dead next to me. | :19:41. | :19:47. | |
With the ambulance, came the police and | :19:48. | :19:51. | |
lots of them, so while the ambulance took over trying to resuscitate | :19:52. | :19:55. | |
Miguel that morning, I was then guarded by the police for the next | :19:56. | :19:58. | |
Just the most traumatic experience one has ever been | :19:59. | :20:02. | |
You've woken up next to a dead person, | :20:03. | :20:05. | |
you've tried CPR, the | :20:06. | :20:07. | |
ambulance has come in, you're now treated like a criminal. | :20:08. | :20:12. | |
Everything came before one's mind that I was there because | :20:13. | :20:14. | |
My partner was dead because of drugs and I was about to | :20:15. | :20:18. | |
Also because of drugs that you had supplied? | :20:19. | :20:28. | |
My partner and I, we did drugs together and with other | :20:29. | :20:31. | |
It's a common and increasing phenomenon in the gay | :20:32. | :20:35. | |
Did you feel in any way responsible for his death? | :20:36. | :20:43. | |
Listen, every day that goes past, I feel responsible. | :20:44. | :20:48. | |
I feel responsible because I was older, | :20:49. | :20:50. | |
It should have been me saying, we're not going to do this. | :20:51. | :21:02. | |
It should have been me taking that responsibility. | :21:03. | :21:04. | |
Instead of taking drugs, let's go to the cinema or whatever. | :21:05. | :21:08. | |
I didn't make that call and I should have done and for | :21:09. | :21:11. | |
that reason and that reason alone, I put his tragic death on my | :21:12. | :21:14. | |
I hadn't touched drugs before, in my teens or twenties. | :21:15. | :21:22. | |
It was only in the last couple of years that I touched them. | :21:23. | :21:25. | |
When you're at various chill outs, as we call them, | :21:26. | :21:34. | |
or parties, you share your experiences with people. | :21:35. | :21:40. | |
You have days to do so, they last three days | :21:41. | :21:42. | |
or four, and there are a large number of people in their 30s or 40s | :21:43. | :21:46. | |
who've come to drugs late but now they do them regularly. | :21:47. | :21:49. | |
I think that's because drugs in the gay | :21:50. | :21:50. | |
Recent studies suggest that gay people are | :21:51. | :21:57. | |
three times more likely to use drugs than their straight counterparts. | :21:58. | :22:00. | |
One study put it at seven times more likely. | :22:01. | :22:06. | |
It seems to be the acceptable face of recreation | :22:07. | :22:08. | |
The Public Health England report found that most people who do | :22:09. | :22:16. | |
these kind of gay sex high parties are in full-time | :22:17. | :22:19. | |
It's not a picture that most people who aren't part of that | :22:20. | :22:23. | |
The problem is more prevalent than most people | :22:24. | :22:26. | |
It's increasing because the drugs are cheap and they are everywhere. | :22:27. | :22:39. | |
So my experience was that | :22:40. | :22:40. | |
it was late in life and then it became too much. | :22:41. | :22:43. | |
I justified my regular use because I was | :22:44. | :22:47. | |
You close your mind to the real risks. | :22:48. | :22:51. | |
Looking back, I only have myself to blame for where I am | :22:52. | :22:54. | |
and that is a place with uncertainty. | :22:55. | :22:57. | |
I am still practising, just, but I won't be for much longer. | :22:58. | :23:06. | |
What will happen to you, do you think? | :23:07. | :23:08. | |
I await sentencing and we'll see what happens there, | :23:09. | :23:11. | |
It is my own fault that I am here, it is my own fault where I am. | :23:12. | :23:21. | |
I may go to prison and whatever I get, I deserve. | :23:22. | :23:25. | |
I have made some stupid decisions and you have to | :23:26. | :23:28. | |
If I didn't, you're not moving forwards. | :23:29. | :23:34. | |
I may go to prison but I will lose my job whatever happens. | :23:35. | :23:38. | |
That's just a price that drugs makes you pay. | :23:39. | :23:48. | |
Henry Hendron speaking to Justin Webb. | :23:49. | :23:56. | |
We can speak now to Daniel May and Greg Owen who've | :23:57. | :23:58. | |
Greg now has HIV and campaigns to raise awareness about the risks | :23:59. | :24:03. | |
With us here in the studio is Hannah McCall, a specialist | :24:04. | :24:07. | |
sexual health nurse at Central and North West London NHS Trust. | :24:08. | :24:09. | |
She recently wrote an editorial in the British Medical Journal | :24:10. | :24:12. | |
saying chemsex needs to become a public health priority. | :24:13. | :24:14. | |
Thank you all for joining us. Hannah, we were hearing from Henry | :24:15. | :24:20. | |
Hendron saying that gay people are three times more likely to take | :24:21. | :24:25. | |
drugs than straight people. How common is it? It is certainly very | :24:26. | :24:31. | |
common. We see 200 patients a day at our clinic and maybe ten to 20 of | :24:32. | :24:35. | |
those each day is admitting some kind of drug use involved in their | :24:36. | :24:42. | |
sex life. And it is drug use that is coming about because of sexual | :24:43. | :24:47. | |
activity? Yes. When we talk about chemsex, we talk about the | :24:48. | :24:50. | |
intentional use of drugs to enhance your sexual experience, not just | :24:51. | :24:53. | |
taking drugs and then having sex incidentally. Henry Hendron was | :24:54. | :24:59. | |
saying there that it has become the acceptable face of recreation in the | :25:00. | :25:05. | |
gay community. Would you agree? It is certainly very common and they | :25:06. | :25:09. | |
gay men that I meet in clinic are not surprised when we asked them | :25:10. | :25:13. | |
about drug use in relation to their sex lives. What are the risks that | :25:14. | :25:17. | |
people are reading? They are twofold. Health care risks, | :25:18. | :25:22. | |
infection. People are less likely to make safe decisions when using | :25:23. | :25:28. | |
drugs. Less likely to use condoms, and more susceptible to HIV and | :25:29. | :25:32. | |
hepatitis C. The other risk is psychological. People end up with | :25:33. | :25:36. | |
dependency, drugs can cause psychosis, high blood pressure, | :25:37. | :25:39. | |
heart attacks, and all of these things are mixed up and that is why | :25:40. | :25:43. | |
we think more needs to be done about it. Greg and Daniel, you have both | :25:44. | :25:48. | |
been there and felt the repercussions of the impact of this | :25:49. | :25:52. | |
on your lives. Tell us what your experiences have been. To be honest, | :25:53. | :26:04. | |
Victoria... JoAnn! Don't worry. During my time on the chemsex scene, | :26:05. | :26:08. | |
I navigated that environment quite well. I was adept at it. No matter | :26:09. | :26:13. | |
how experienced and adept you are, eventually the drugs win. I was so | :26:14. | :26:20. | |
crazy on a crystal meth psychosis at one point that I wanted to go home | :26:21. | :26:24. | |
to Belfast. I was at a chill out and I had no passport but I had a pocket | :26:25. | :26:28. | |
full of cash and I managed to get from London to Scotland on a 12 hour | :26:29. | :26:33. | |
coach, and then from Scotland to Belfast on a ferry with no passport | :26:34. | :26:40. | |
and just a pocket full of cash. I was just that crazy after being | :26:41. | :26:44. | |
awake for four or five days. It is not just twofold. It is mental, | :26:45. | :26:50. | |
emotional, social. No matter how well you navigate that system, there | :26:51. | :26:55. | |
is always a price to pay. How did you get into it? I was in a | :26:56. | :26:58. | |
seven-year relationship and the guy that I was with was heavily into the | :26:59. | :27:06. | |
clubbing scene. We would use hook up apps and drugs for group sex that we | :27:07. | :27:13. | |
would have. When I became single, I had to navigate single life. It was | :27:14. | :27:18. | |
a seven-year relationship, so when I came out of the relationship, there | :27:19. | :27:23. | |
were apps, crystal meth, mephedrone, sex parties, and that was all there | :27:24. | :27:27. | |
was. That was gay single life and that is how I progressed into that | :27:28. | :27:31. | |
scene. I had a lot of fun and I met some nice people and make genuine | :27:32. | :27:36. | |
connections. But it is steeped in a lot of loneliness, I | :27:37. | :27:49. | |
think, and that seems to be a driving force for gay men. The | :27:50. | :27:52. | |
chemsex culture is a need for connection and maybe intimacy | :27:53. | :27:54. | |
without investment. It takes tools to navigate that environment and | :27:55. | :27:56. | |
that is what we should be encouraging. What was your | :27:57. | :28:00. | |
experience, Daniel? I used drugs because I had a massive void in | :28:01. | :28:05. | |
terms of loneliness. My father left my mother when I was quite a young | :28:06. | :28:10. | |
child and that manifested into me looking for a father figure in | :28:11. | :28:15. | |
partners. I wasn't finding the right guy for me, so I wasn't finding the | :28:16. | :28:19. | |
attention and the love that I was craving for so much. I started going | :28:20. | :28:27. | |
on apps like Grinder, Manhunt, to get that attention, to get that, but | :28:28. | :28:35. | |
stupidly. It is not until you do the chemsex parties, where you feel | :28:36. | :28:39. | |
loved by everyone, and afterwards you realise they be declared. You're | :28:40. | :28:42. | |
not going to get a text afterwards, you're not going to get a phone | :28:43. | :28:47. | |
call, you are not going to see them again. Once you feel worse, you go | :28:48. | :28:52. | |
running back to do drugs again because you feel bad that you did it | :28:53. | :28:57. | |
in the first place. The complete addiction? I was not really addicted | :28:58. | :29:03. | |
to drugs but to the emotions that I got doing drugs. I woke up in the | :29:04. | :29:06. | |
morning and I didn't have withdrawal symptoms. I was not shaking, I | :29:07. | :29:11. | |
wasn't craving drugs, I craved attention and that is why I did it. | :29:12. | :29:16. | |
Where you fearful of the risks you were running? Of course. I was very | :29:17. | :29:22. | |
lucky. I did drugs four years and I am so lucky I have not become | :29:23. | :29:26. | |
positive and I am very for that. I knew the risks but they did not | :29:27. | :29:33. | |
outweigh the pleasure I was getting from doing the drugs and that is | :29:34. | :29:39. | |
where the risk is. The apps need to take more responsibility for what is | :29:40. | :29:45. | |
going on with people using them. Whether that be an email address | :29:46. | :29:50. | |
that could be set up... They are not here to defend themselves. Can I say | :29:51. | :29:58. | |
on apps? It is people. You can't blame anything. It is people. We | :29:59. | :30:05. | |
make a choice and it is about choosing something that is better | :30:06. | :30:09. | |
for us rather than trying to allocate responsibility. It starts | :30:10. | :30:12. | |
with us. At what point did you decide to make a choice and change | :30:13. | :30:14. | |
things and how hard was it? Ironically it was my HIV diagnosis. | :30:15. | :30:28. | |
It made me become aware of what I was doing and what I wanted to do. | :30:29. | :30:33. | |
It was a catalyst for great change. I had actually decided I was going | :30:34. | :30:43. | |
to start the daily pill, the HIB -- HIV prevention method. I went along | :30:44. | :30:51. | |
to get my test and found out I was positive. At that point I was, you | :30:52. | :30:56. | |
know what, this is the first time in my adult life where I have to take | :30:57. | :31:03. | |
stock. I can exist like this but I want to exist better. I want to | :31:04. | :31:07. | |
thrive better. At that point I wanted to make better choices. Like | :31:08. | :31:13. | |
Daniel said, it is a cycle. When you are in that, it is very hard to get | :31:14. | :31:18. | |
out. Henry Hendron has been talking about it because he said it has | :31:19. | :31:22. | |
effectively become an acceptable face of the gay community. What | :31:23. | :31:27. | |
would you say to young gay men who are being sucked into this? I feel | :31:28. | :31:33. | |
for Henry, I really do. It is a terrible situation. I just found out | :31:34. | :31:41. | |
a few days ago that my former fiance, who I was with for seven | :31:42. | :31:45. | |
years, had a stroke, probably from too much drugs, and had a heart | :31:46. | :31:51. | |
attack a few years before. He is only 37. The physical aspects, a | :31:52. | :31:54. | |
very real threat. Even if you do not choose to do drugs and chemsex, if | :31:55. | :32:00. | |
you go onto a whole cup app, everybody around you will be doing | :32:01. | :32:08. | |
it. -- hook up. You still have to navigate other people's chemsex. My | :32:09. | :32:14. | |
advice to younger gay men, especially in London, is, do not be | :32:15. | :32:18. | |
afraid to establish what you want and do not be afraid if it is | :32:19. | :32:22. | |
slightly different from the norm, the acceptable face of social | :32:23. | :32:27. | |
interaction. Do not want to be afraid -- do not be afraid to say | :32:28. | :32:32. | |
you want more. Some of these younger guys have not known anything like | :32:33. | :32:36. | |
this and how to navigate it. Nobody is saying do not do it. That is not | :32:37. | :32:41. | |
what I am about. If you are going to do it, do it clever and ask for help | :32:42. | :32:52. | |
if you need it. You work in London. Is this a mainly London phenomenon? | :32:53. | :32:56. | |
Obviously your focus is on London. Is it everywhere? It is certainly | :32:57. | :33:05. | |
across the UK, mostly in big cities, London, Brighton, Manchester. But we | :33:06. | :33:07. | |
see it in Europe and across the world. This week is the first | :33:08. | :33:12. | |
European chemsex Forum, where experts from across Europe are | :33:13. | :33:16. | |
getting together to talk about this issue, to discuss what trends we are | :33:17. | :33:21. | |
seeing in our cities versus Amsterdam or Berlin, what we are | :33:22. | :33:24. | |
doing about it, what they are doing about it. It is about finding a way | :33:25. | :33:31. | |
forward. Lewis says the followed for the guys involved is awful. Joe says | :33:32. | :33:37. | |
this affects only a small portion of gay men. The men on your show only | :33:38. | :33:42. | |
represent a small part of a large diverse community. Thank you all. | :33:43. | :33:46. | |
Nearly 25,000 operations and procedures have | :33:47. | :33:47. | |
been delayed because of the junior doctor strikes. | :33:48. | :33:49. | |
We speak to two people who've been directly affected and ask | :33:50. | :33:52. | |
whether their opinion of the strikes has changed. | :33:53. | :34:00. | |
And the former managing director of Leeds United says he was hit in the | :34:01. | :34:07. | |
face, beaten and tasered while in prison for fraud in Dubai. He speaks | :34:08. | :34:12. | |
to the BBC in his first interview since his release last month. | :34:13. | :34:17. | |
Now the news with Ben. Campaigners who want the UK to leave | :34:18. | :34:21. | |
the European Union have accused the government of scaring voters | :34:22. | :34:24. | |
and wasting money. Their anger concerns a leaflet | :34:25. | :34:26. | |
being sent to every household, setting out the case | :34:27. | :34:29. | |
for staying in the EU. There'll also be social media | :34:30. | :34:33. | |
posts and a new website. David Cameron says the campaign | :34:34. | :34:39. | |
will provide the public with key I will be putting mine | :34:40. | :34:42. | |
in an envelope and sending it There will be along in petition | :34:43. | :35:04. | |
launched later today to ensure we get the issue discussed in | :35:05. | :35:08. | |
parliament, so we can make it our outrage at how the government has | :35:09. | :35:09. | |
conducted itself. Parliament has set out what should | :35:10. | :35:12. | |
happen in the campaign. Both sides will be entitled | :35:13. | :35:16. | |
to access taxpayers' money to send They can spend millions of pounds | :35:17. | :35:18. | |
setting out the arguments why they think we should | :35:19. | :35:22. | |
leave or remain. What we have done in this leaflet | :35:23. | :35:26. | |
is set out the basic facts that And set out the government judgment | :35:27. | :35:29. | |
about that. Iceland's governing coalition has | :35:30. | :35:39. | |
chosen a new Prime Minister, after the leaked Panama papers | :35:40. | :35:41. | |
caused Sigmundur The Fisheries Minister | :35:42. | :35:43. | |
will be his successor until There have been public protests | :35:44. | :35:46. | |
in Rejkjavik calling for the entire A BBC Freedom of Information request | :35:47. | :35:51. | |
has revealed inconsistencies in specialist mental health | :35:52. | :35:59. | |
treatment for outpatients In some parts of the country over | :36:00. | :36:02. | |
the past four years, waiting times The Department of Health says it's | :36:03. | :36:06. | |
investing ?150 million in services for young patients over | :36:07. | :36:13. | |
the next five years. Four migrant children will arrive | :36:14. | :36:23. | |
in the UK from Calais this morning, after being allowed to stay | :36:24. | :36:26. | |
with their families here while their asylum | :36:27. | :36:28. | |
claims are assessed. The teenagers are from Syria | :36:29. | :36:30. | |
and Afghanistan, and are among the first to arrive under | :36:31. | :36:32. | |
newly-enforced EU laws. The charity Citizens UK is calling | :36:33. | :36:34. | |
for the government to do more to help other children | :36:35. | :36:37. | |
in similar situations. Six weeks after an inconclusive | :36:38. | :36:51. | |
general election in the Republic of Ireland, the two largest parties are | :36:52. | :36:57. | |
discussing forming a government together. And Kenny has met his | :36:58. | :37:05. | |
political rival Michael Martin and proposed a formal coalition. If no | :37:06. | :37:09. | |
agreement is reached, which is possible, another general election | :37:10. | :37:13. | |
would have to be cold. That is a summary of the news. Join me at 11 | :37:14. | :37:16. | |
o'clock. Now the sport. Hello. The first leg | :37:17. | :37:27. | |
of Manchester City's first Champions League quarterfinal ended in a 2-2 | :37:28. | :37:33. | |
draw against PSG. Joe Hart saved a penalty. Kevin De Bruyne and | :37:34. | :37:39. | |
Fernandinho scored. There was a shock in Germany last night as | :37:40. | :37:44. | |
Wolfsburg, playing their first quarterfinal as well, beat ten time | :37:45. | :37:48. | |
European champions real Madrid -- Real Madrid. To night Jurgen Klopp | :37:49. | :37:55. | |
returns to Dortmund with Liverpool in the Europa League quarterfinals. | :37:56. | :38:01. | |
And the first golf major of the tees off this afternoon. Rory McIlroy | :38:02. | :38:05. | |
waiting for his first green jacket is in the final group at Augusta. | :38:06. | :38:07. | |
That is sport. Angela Wrightson was found dead | :38:08. | :38:09. | |
in her living room with more She'd been murdered by two girls | :38:10. | :38:12. | |
who were just 13 and 14 at the time. A court heard how they had battered | :38:13. | :38:18. | |
and tortured her to death. They're being sentenced this morning | :38:19. | :38:24. | |
at Leeds Crown Court. Megan Patterson is there. Tell us | :38:25. | :38:34. | |
more about this attack, what happened? It was a brutal, savage | :38:35. | :38:42. | |
and sustained attack which took place in Angela Wrightson's home in | :38:43. | :38:46. | |
Hartlepool. The attack was carried out by two girls known to her. At | :38:47. | :38:51. | |
the time of the attack they were aged 13 and 14. On the night of | :38:52. | :38:56. | |
their death they let themselves into her property. They would also that | :38:57. | :39:01. | |
smash -- often go there to get alcohol. On that night they took | :39:02. | :39:06. | |
selfies as they assaulted her. They took household implements to batter. | :39:07. | :39:10. | |
The following day she was found by her landlord lying there. She had | :39:11. | :39:14. | |
almost 100 injuries all over her body. Police later found several | :39:15. | :39:19. | |
instruments they think were used in the torture of Angela Wrightson, | :39:20. | :39:22. | |
including a spade which was covered in blood. There was a wooden plank | :39:23. | :39:27. | |
that had nails in it. They think they were all used in the assault. | :39:28. | :39:32. | |
Today those girls will be sentenced at the court in Leeds. They are now | :39:33. | :39:37. | |
both 15 years old. How much is known about the girls? Obviously for legal | :39:38. | :39:43. | |
reasons we cannot tell you too much. But we do know that both of the | :39:44. | :39:47. | |
girls at the time of the attack were in care. They did know Angela | :39:48. | :39:51. | |
Wrightson. They would often go around to her house, as did many | :39:52. | :39:54. | |
young people in the community where she lived. Angela Wrightson herself | :39:55. | :40:01. | |
had a chaotic lifestyle. She was dependent on alcohol. She had been | :40:02. | :40:05. | |
in and out of prison often. She was known to young people as somebody | :40:06. | :40:09. | |
who would go to the newsagents and buy them alcohol. They could drink | :40:10. | :40:12. | |
around her house. They would sometimes give her money or share | :40:13. | :40:17. | |
that with her. That is the second part of the story. There are no two | :40:18. | :40:23. | |
official reviews into the case. One looking at the care and supervision | :40:24. | :40:26. | |
offered to the young girls who were supposed to be being supervised. One | :40:27. | :40:32. | |
review is looking to what went wrong there. How could their behaviour | :40:33. | :40:36. | |
have been monitored? And a second review is looking at the care and | :40:37. | :40:40. | |
support and supervision that Angela Wrightson was given. She was known | :40:41. | :40:44. | |
to be a vulnerable member of the community. Her past was well | :40:45. | :40:47. | |
documented. She had been involved in a number of services in the past | :40:48. | :40:51. | |
trying to overcome alcohol dependency. Those reviews have | :40:52. | :40:55. | |
started. Today is the sentencing of the girls, 15 at the time -- 15 now, | :40:56. | :41:02. | |
13 and 14 when they committed the attack. | :41:03. | :41:05. | |
This case has shocked people, partly because of the level | :41:06. | :41:07. | |
of the violence, and partly because of the young age | :41:08. | :41:09. | |
We can speak now to Dr Simone Fox, who is a forensic psychologist | :41:10. | :41:13. | |
How unusual is a case like this involving young girls and such a | :41:14. | :41:22. | |
level of violence? This is extremely rare. Girls offend far less than | :41:23. | :41:29. | |
boys. It is the extreme nature of it that makes it very rare. After the | :41:30. | :41:33. | |
murder, the girls phoned police and asked for a lift home. They were | :41:34. | :41:38. | |
taking selfies in the back of the police van. It seems to demonstrate | :41:39. | :41:41. | |
a complete disconnect with what they had actually done? Yes, and I think | :41:42. | :41:48. | |
their behaviour, they were not thinking about what they had done. | :41:49. | :41:53. | |
They were not taking responsibility. There was a disconnect. There was | :41:54. | :41:58. | |
not the emotion there. There was no processing of their behaviour. Is it | :41:59. | :42:07. | |
possible to generalise about a child that might turn into this sort of | :42:08. | :42:11. | |
child that would be able to behave in this way? There is a lot of | :42:12. | :42:17. | |
research and known risk factors for what might increase the risk of | :42:18. | :42:21. | |
extreme violence. There are individual factors in the young | :42:22. | :42:25. | |
people. Problem solving skills, low intellectual functioning, | :42:26. | :42:32. | |
anti-social attitudes and beliefs, pro-offending attitudes, a lack of | :42:33. | :42:35. | |
empathy, a lack of remorse. But what is more important to look that is | :42:36. | :42:40. | |
the systems around them. Looking at the family factors. The family is | :42:41. | :42:45. | |
really important to the development of a child. A large rubber of risk | :42:46. | :42:50. | |
factors. A family where there has been abuse or neglect, where a young | :42:51. | :42:58. | |
person has witnessed violence had been subjected to violence. When a | :42:59. | :43:04. | |
young person has gone into the care system, that would indicate a poor | :43:05. | :43:09. | |
prognosis. Also thinking about other factors, the school environment, | :43:10. | :43:12. | |
somebody who is not doing well, they are dropping out, there are true | :43:13. | :43:17. | |
ending. They are handing -- hanging out with other anti-social peers. | :43:18. | :43:21. | |
The peer group is really crucial in adolescence. If you're hanging out | :43:22. | :43:25. | |
with other negative peers, that will have an important role to play. The | :43:26. | :43:29. | |
chief executive of the local council has said we need to do everything | :43:30. | :43:33. | |
possible to understand what motivated the children to behave as | :43:34. | :43:38. | |
they did. How important is it to understand? It is really important | :43:39. | :43:43. | |
to understand what went wrong at an individual level for the young | :43:44. | :43:49. | |
people, but also within the system. What led to the family breakdown? | :43:50. | :43:54. | |
What experience did they have growing up? When they were in the | :43:55. | :44:00. | |
care system, what happened? Trying to understand that. | :44:01. | :44:04. | |
To learn lessons. Is it possible to turn kids to have done something | :44:05. | :44:11. | |
terrible around? Definitely. Prevention is better than cure. We | :44:12. | :44:15. | |
want to prevent people from authentic. There are interventions | :44:16. | :44:19. | |
to prevent young people from going down that route. Family | :44:20. | :44:21. | |
interventions, working with the system, interventions like systemic | :44:22. | :44:28. | |
therapy or a family intervention projects. Also, when they have | :44:29. | :44:34. | |
offended, it is about working with them at an individual level and with | :44:35. | :44:38. | |
the family, and the systems afterwards. Thank you very much. We | :44:39. | :44:42. | |
will bring you details of the sentencing when it comes through. | :44:43. | :44:44. | |
The former managing director of Leeds United, David Haigh, | :44:45. | :44:46. | |
says he was mistreated and beaten while in prison for fraud in Dubai. | :44:47. | :44:49. | |
Speaking to the BBC in his first interview since his release last | :44:50. | :44:52. | |
month, Mr Haigh said there had been five serious | :44:53. | :44:54. | |
He ended up in prison after his former employers | :44:55. | :44:57. | |
It was alleged that he faked invoices for millions of pounds | :44:58. | :45:02. | |
and personally signed off on their payment, illegally | :45:03. | :45:04. | |
channelling his employers' money to bank accounts he controlled. | :45:05. | :45:07. | |
Mr Haigh has always denied the allegations, | :45:08. | :45:10. | |
He's been speaking to Newsnight's Mark Lobel | :45:11. | :45:19. | |
I was hit in the face. Tasered were used on me. I was pushed around. Was | :45:20. | :45:29. | |
this in front of other prisoners? No, it was in front of police. Some | :45:30. | :45:34. | |
police are good, others are bad. I was taken out in the middle of the | :45:35. | :45:38. | |
night, taking into a car park and taken back inside to an office. | :45:39. | :45:46. | |
There were various police around. They were essentially trying to | :45:47. | :45:49. | |
scare me, telling me I needed to confess, that if I did come | :45:50. | :45:53. | |
everything would be fine. If I left, they would give me Dale. If I | :45:54. | :45:57. | |
didn't, they would give me ten years. A lot of threats. Telling me | :45:58. | :46:02. | |
that the people who have complained about me were very powerful. | :46:03. | :46:09. | |
There have been five serious episodes of it throughout my | :46:10. | :46:14. | |
detention, each of which were reported to the embassy at the time. | :46:15. | :46:19. | |
The last one, as recently as three weeks before I was released, when I | :46:20. | :46:22. | |
was hit over the head with the back of a broom handle, for no reason. I | :46:23. | :46:27. | |
was just standing there and the police hit me. You are convicted of | :46:28. | :46:34. | |
fraud, misappropriating ?300 million of money in August 2015 by their | :46:35. | :46:38. | |
criminal judge in Dubai, but you have complained about the process | :46:39. | :46:43. | |
that led to your conviction. I went to two prosecution interviews | :46:44. | :46:46. | |
without lawyers, without representation, being unable to see | :46:47. | :46:49. | |
the accusations against me, unable to see any of the prosecution case | :46:50. | :46:53. | |
because it was in Arabic and I was told I couldn't have translators. No | :46:54. | :46:59. | |
interpretation of what was going on and no understanding at all. They | :47:00. | :47:03. | |
had formed a conclusion, it was clear, because Dubai is all about | :47:04. | :47:08. | |
marketing and PR, is that it was a bad case, quick, get him through the | :47:09. | :47:12. | |
system and get him out. It was obvious. You are complaining about | :47:13. | :47:16. | |
the process that led to your conviction but you do admit that you | :47:17. | :47:22. | |
took the ?3.5 million in question. That money landed in your account. | :47:23. | :47:27. | |
Took is the wrong word because it was given to me. Yes, it is in my | :47:28. | :47:31. | |
bank account. You notice the money was in your account at some point | :47:32. | :47:35. | |
but you didn't know how it had got there. How do you mean? As far as I | :47:36. | :47:42. | |
was concerned, I was due a certain amount of money for different | :47:43. | :47:45. | |
services. Whether that is the salary, whatever it may be, and I | :47:46. | :47:51. | |
was receiving that money. I did have concerns towards the end of my time | :47:52. | :47:55. | |
that I was being paid in a bizarre fashion. If I was due 35,000, for | :47:56. | :47:59. | |
example, it would come in several amounts. That was a bit odd. During | :48:00. | :48:07. | |
your time in prison, did you meet other British nationals detained | :48:08. | :48:12. | |
without charge? Yes. In the last few years in Dubai, 100 or more British | :48:13. | :48:20. | |
people have had their human rights abused, not had fair trials, have | :48:21. | :48:24. | |
been detained arbitrarily. I could list all the breaches of human | :48:25. | :48:27. | |
rights and it is essentially going through the European Human Rights | :48:28. | :48:31. | |
Act, and saying everything they have done is wrong. It is shocking, the | :48:32. | :48:35. | |
level of torture to British citizens. A couple of days ago I | :48:36. | :48:40. | |
spoke to the family of somebody who was in a cell with me who is now | :48:41. | :48:44. | |
extremely unwell with TB in hospital. Two days before I was | :48:45. | :48:49. | |
moved to one jail, somebody died from tuberculosis and was in the bed | :48:50. | :48:56. | |
next door. It is regular. You were mistreated, your illnesses were not | :48:57. | :49:00. | |
correctly looked after, there was another British person who died from | :49:01. | :49:04. | |
not being given diabetes treatment in time. They were ignored. It is | :49:05. | :49:09. | |
common practice. Despite what happened to you, do you think | :49:10. | :49:13. | |
overall Dubai is a safe place to do business? No. The Dubai Government | :49:14. | :49:21. | |
says that 20,000 international companies have been attracted there | :49:22. | :49:25. | |
because of its legislative framework and policies. It can't be that bad. | :49:26. | :49:29. | |
I lived in Dubai for six years and I went from the financial centre, | :49:30. | :49:34. | |
which for people who haven't seen it, it is like Canary Wharf. I | :49:35. | :49:39. | |
didn't see Dubai, I didn't see the United Arab Emirates, I had nothing | :49:40. | :49:43. | |
to do with the Dubai courts, Sharia law, any of this. It was like a | :49:44. | :49:48. | |
little England. We had Waitrose, Marks Spencer. You don't realise | :49:49. | :49:51. | |
that you are in a very different country with very different laws and | :49:52. | :49:56. | |
some very vindictive people. As a former managing director, you must | :49:57. | :50:00. | |
have intimate knowledge of Leeds United. Do you still think that GF | :50:01. | :50:04. | |
HR suitable minority partners? Absolutely not. One of the things | :50:05. | :50:09. | |
that need to be done for the benefit of Leeds is that GFH needs to leave. | :50:10. | :50:18. | |
They are hampering the development of the club. Having spoken to | :50:19. | :50:24. | |
Massimo, I know he wants to buy the stadium and GFH are not putting the | :50:25. | :50:28. | |
money up for that. They should be made aware that they are not | :50:29. | :50:32. | |
welcome. The Leeds fans do a good job of that. They are not wanted. It | :50:33. | :50:34. | |
is time to go. Thank you. GFH Capital said Mr Haigh | :50:35. | :50:38. | |
travelled to Dubai of his own free will | :50:39. | :50:40. | |
and was was not lured there. The firm also said the ?3.5 million | :50:41. | :50:43. | |
was not given to Mr Haigh but he illegally channelled | :50:44. | :50:46. | |
the money to bank The authorities in Dubai have yet | :50:47. | :50:48. | |
to comment on these allegations. A Foreign and Commonwealth Office | :50:49. | :50:52. | |
spokesman said embassy staff regularly checked | :50:53. | :50:54. | |
on Mr Haigh's welfare. It's the second day of the fourth | :50:55. | :50:59. | |
junior doctors' strike in England. This 48-hour strike started at 8 | :51:00. | :51:02. | |
o'clock yesterday morning It's hit 5,000 operations | :51:03. | :51:04. | |
and procedures which means the total so far during the dispute is nearly | :51:05. | :51:09. | |
25,000 junior doctors, and their union the British | :51:10. | :51:17. | |
Medical Association, are angry about changes to contracts | :51:18. | :51:21. | |
and pay that affect weekend working. But those contracts are to be | :51:22. | :51:26. | |
imposed by the government, The BMA says it has no choice | :51:27. | :51:28. | |
but to fight the plan and is now preparing for the first ever | :51:29. | :51:35. | |
walkouts of emergency care So how did this dispute reach such | :51:36. | :51:37. | |
a critical and bitter stalemate? A final take-it-or-leave it offer | :51:38. | :51:41. | |
was made by the government in February but was rejected | :51:42. | :51:44. | |
by the BMA. The new contracts cut the pay | :51:45. | :51:45. | |
for weekend work while basic challenges being pursued by doctors | :51:46. | :51:48. | |
against the imposition and now a host of organisations | :51:49. | :51:55. | |
is urging both sides to go back We can hear now from two people | :51:56. | :51:58. | |
who've been affected Gill Shaw's mother had her heart | :51:59. | :52:02. | |
operation cancelled and Isabel Barnard, who has a rare | :52:03. | :52:06. | |
liver disease, and had an appointment for a liver | :52:07. | :52:09. | |
biopsy cancelled. Thank you both for joining us. Gill | :52:10. | :52:22. | |
Shaw, your mother's operation was cancelled. What was it for? She | :52:23. | :52:28. | |
needs an operation because one of her archery valves isn't functioning | :52:29. | :52:32. | |
properly and she needed to have it fixed and that was supposed to | :52:33. | :52:36. | |
happen yesterday morning. How urgent did you understand the operation to | :52:37. | :52:42. | |
be? When we spoke to the junior doctor on Saturday when we went to | :52:43. | :52:47. | |
hospital, he said it was an urgent operation, and so did the consultant | :52:48. | :52:52. | |
the previous day. The next day, when the consultant came round for the | :52:53. | :52:56. | |
pre-op visit, he said things are not looking great because of the strike | :52:57. | :53:01. | |
and we may have to cancel. We were incredibly shocked, myself and my | :53:02. | :53:07. | |
siblings and my parents. What about your mother? How did she feel | :53:08. | :53:15. | |
particularly? She is in her 80s. She grew up through the Second World War | :53:16. | :53:18. | |
and she is incredibly stoic about the whole thing. She basically told | :53:19. | :53:22. | |
me not to worry about it and that she would be fine. We are not quite | :53:23. | :53:27. | |
like that. We are more worried than that. How worried are you? I am | :53:28. | :53:35. | |
concerned. She was sent home yesterday evening and she is much | :53:36. | :53:45. | |
improved, but equally, if it is an urgent operation, clearly it needed | :53:46. | :53:49. | |
doing, so why is it not actually done and what impact can that have | :53:50. | :53:53. | |
between now and the next date she gets? How do you feel about the | :53:54. | :53:59. | |
strike that has caused this to happen? Well, it is complicated, | :54:00. | :54:06. | |
isn't it? I can see that there is a debate and there are discussions to | :54:07. | :54:12. | |
reopen, personally. But I also think that doctors should communicate | :54:13. | :54:15. | |
better with patients about why things have been cancelled when they | :54:16. | :54:24. | |
have been marked as urgent. That is where families and patients become | :54:25. | :54:27. | |
distressed and they find it difficult to reconcile the | :54:28. | :54:32. | |
disruption and strike action with their needs. What happens if my mum | :54:33. | :54:38. | |
doesn't make it to the operation? What happens then? Clearly nothing | :54:39. | :54:44. | |
will happen. But it doesn't leave us in a great situation, does it? | :54:45. | :54:49. | |
Isabel, you had a medical appointment cancelled. Tell us more | :54:50. | :54:54. | |
about what that was for? I have quite a rare liver disease and I | :54:55. | :54:59. | |
were supposed to be having a biopsy yesterday. They are trying to work | :55:00. | :55:02. | |
out if I am having an artificial connection to sort this out. I am | :55:03. | :55:09. | |
going to need a liver transplant. There is no cure, it is one in a | :55:10. | :55:14. | |
million sort of thing. I was desperately waiting to have the | :55:15. | :55:17. | |
operation done, get it over with, find out the next step for | :55:18. | :55:22. | |
treatment. Now it has been cancelled and I am stuck waiting to hear more | :55:23. | :55:26. | |
news. How did you feel when you were told it was cancelled? Distressed, | :55:27. | :55:34. | |
annoyed, just definitely distressed and annoyed mostly, wanting to find | :55:35. | :55:39. | |
out when it would be done and why it had been cancelled. It was just an | :55:40. | :55:43. | |
inconvenience, really. I had done preparation to get ready. My parents | :55:44. | :55:47. | |
had taken three days off work, has travelled to London ready for the | :55:48. | :55:53. | |
operation. It has not come at a good time with university assignments and | :55:54. | :55:56. | |
things like that. How do you feel about the fact this has happened | :55:57. | :56:02. | |
because of the strike? It is an inconvenience and a difficult | :56:03. | :56:06. | |
situation, but it is the lack of communication with patients. It is | :56:07. | :56:10. | |
not fair on as with critical condition that we are waiting for | :56:11. | :56:14. | |
procedures and tests and things, but I do understand why they are doing | :56:15. | :56:18. | |
it and I support the strike. In spite of the fact it has caused to | :56:19. | :56:22. | |
inconvenience and concern, you still think the doctors are right to walk | :56:23. | :56:27. | |
out in the way that they have? I very much doubt that the politicians | :56:28. | :56:34. | |
opposing this would be happy to work additional unsociable hours with no | :56:35. | :56:37. | |
extra pay, so I can understand why they are angry. They have spent | :56:38. | :56:42. | |
years in training to support the country only for the Government to | :56:43. | :56:46. | |
cut their pay premiums and things, but then again the nation deserves a | :56:47. | :56:53. | |
seven-day service. The next walk-out will be an all-out walk out so there | :56:54. | :56:57. | |
will be no emergency care either provided by junior doctors. How do | :56:58. | :57:04. | |
you feel about that? I think that will have detrimental effects, | :57:05. | :57:07. | |
especially stopping A You don't know the extent of the conditions of | :57:08. | :57:11. | |
people walking into A They could be life changing. The worst happens | :57:12. | :57:16. | |
in A sometimes. I don't think junior doctors should take that | :57:17. | :57:22. | |
strike but I understand why they have got to do something for | :57:23. | :57:26. | |
themselves. What do you think about the next walk-out, the all-out | :57:27. | :57:39. | |
strike? I agree on the A walk-out. The worst-case scenario has got to | :57:40. | :57:44. | |
be borne in mind. They have to start negotiations again. They have to. In | :57:45. | :57:49. | |
terms of your mother, have you any indication when her operation will | :57:50. | :57:54. | |
go ahead now? The specialists are hoping she might be on the list for | :57:55. | :57:58. | |
next Wednesday, so we have all got everything crossed that it will | :57:59. | :58:04. | |
happen on Wednesday. It depends on whether somebody comes along who is | :58:05. | :58:07. | |
more urgent than my mum and if she gets pushed down the list. We don't | :58:08. | :58:11. | |
know. Until Wednesday comes and it happens, I am not assuming anything. | :58:12. | :58:18. | |
Gill Shaw, Isabel, thank you for joining us. Thank you for your | :58:19. | :58:22. | |
company today. Good to hear your thoughts on all the stories we have | :58:23. | :58:26. | |
been talking about. We will be back at the same time tomorrow. BBC | :58:27. | :58:32. | |
Newsroom Live | :58:33. | :58:33. |