06/04/2016 Victoria Derbyshire


06/04/2016

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Transcript


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I'm Joanna Gosling in for Victoria, welcome to the programme.

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Junior doctors have started their fourth strike this year

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in a row with the Government over the new contract.

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Also this morning, a soldier who received the George Medal

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for acts of bravery in Iraq tells us he feels abandoned by the army.

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I didn't think it would affect me because it didn't feel reality

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at the time and obviously a year it sinks in and your depression kicks

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in and your drinking, but you don't realise you're

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changing, but other people see you are.

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And, Britain spends more on foreign aid that

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This morning we really want to hear your views,

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and we'll hear the arguments for and against just after 9:30am.

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We're live every weekday morning until 11am.

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As always, throughout the programme we'll bring you the latest breaking

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news and developing stories and, as always, we're really keen

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Use the hashtag #VictoriaLIVE, and if you text, you will be charged

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And don't forget, if you've got a story you think we should be

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Some of our best stories come from you, our viewers.

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Junior doctors in England have begun another 48-hour strike, the fourth

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stoppage in their protracted dispute over new contracts.

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From 8am junior hospital doctors will be providing

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emergency care only, so A services will be unaffected.

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But scheduled operations and treatments are likely to be hit

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and about 5,000 operations have been cancelled already.

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Once again, hospitals in England have had to brace themselves

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for another walk-out by junior doctors, a 48-hour strike

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for everything apart from emergency care.

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But NHS chiefs are confident patients will be safe.

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We have been working very closely with hospitals,

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to ensure that robust plans are in place to minimise

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Nevertheless, we will see some operations cancelled.

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We think that will be in the region of around 5,000 operations.

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The dispute, which is over a new contract the Government

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is imposing on junior doctors, has become more

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The latest strike runs from 8am today until 8am on Friday.

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It is the fourth strike since January, and as a result more

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than 24,000 operations and procedures have had

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But doctors' leaders say that, while they regret the disruption,

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The Government has every opportunity to stop industrial action,

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if it would get around the table and talk to us.

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Unfortunately, the Government refuses to do so.

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Therefore, the Government has ultimately said

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that they are basically pushing us into action.

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The Government, however, is adamant the new contract

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will lead to safer patient care, and help create

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There is no sign of this dispute ending.

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The next strike planned for later this month will be

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a complete walk-out by junior doctors, including emergency care,

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for the first time in the history of the NHS.

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Let's get some reaction live from the picket line.

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You can hear them behind me, the junior doctors who are here, in the

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same position as in January, February and March. 24,000

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operations and procedures cancelled and postponed over the strike

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action, but is it really worth it? The contract is still going ahead,

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as of August this year. 24,000 operations and procedures

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cancelled since the strikes have begun, is it really worth it? Should

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you be putting patient in the middle? No doctor wants to harm any

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patients, that is why we have got senior doctor cover providing

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emergency care to make sure the NHS is safe. Nobody wants to have any

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operations cancelled if we can avoid it, but if this contract is imposed,

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what we are seeing on strike days, operations cancelled, would become

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the norm, there would be so many rota gaps, because this contract is

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toxic. We are sorry that operations are cancelled, but we are doing this

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to prevent this becoming the norm in the longer run. You work in accident

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and emergency, we are hearing all the time that units are stretched,

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and yet you are planning on walking out of the most pressurised areas of

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hospitals. Is this really responsible? We are making sure it

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is safe, because our senior consultants and staff grade

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colleagues will be providing good quality emergency care. Junior

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doctors have been backed into this, the Government is not listening,

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despite industrial action. It is not too late to stop them imposing this,

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come back to the table and let's work out a contract that will be

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safe for the NHS in the future. It will be toxic in many ways, on rotas

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and on women. But patients are in the middle of this. Will the public

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carry on supporting you if you carry on striking? The public value their

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NHS and understand we are doing this to save the NHS in the long term, so

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it will be there. The public will continue to support this. We are

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sorry for any inconvenience, that we need to look at this over the long

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term. If the contract is imposed, and they will stretch an already

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stretched NHS over seven days, it. Crumbling. We must protect it, that

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is what the doctors are here for. As you can see, still a very passionate

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picket line, even for the fourth time. The Government says that the

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contract must come into force for a better seven-day service across the

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NHS. Let us know what you think of that.

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All of the usual ways of getting in touch.

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Maxine is in the BBC Newsroom and has more on that and a summary

:07:13.:07:15.

The Business Secretary Sajid Javid is calling for a responsible sales

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process of the steelworks in Port Talbot.

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It comes as he arrives in Mumbai for talks with the chairman

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It's the first time the pair have met since the company announced

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it was to sell its UK assets a week ago.

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The Business Secretary had talks in London today over plans to save the

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plant. It is thought Tata wants to sell the loss-making plant as soon

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as possible. The Business Secretary is expected to press for

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reassurances on terms of the sale. What is the best he can expect? In

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this building behind me, the headquarters of Tata, we are

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expecting the meeting to take place in a couple of hours. I have spoken

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to Tata, the Government has sent out an assurance that the process of

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sale they will follow for the UK operations will be John Tarrant and

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thorough. The Business Secretary will seek assurances that whatever

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takeover deal is signed, it will not result in mass job losses. Tata

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employ 15,000 workers in the UK. The Business Secretary met with union

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workers in London, they have sent a message through him, they expect

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Tata to be a responsible seller and they want Tata to spell out what

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time frame it is looking at. Tata is not answering the question, but they

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want to do this as quickly as possible.

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The new president of Fifa, Gianni Infantino, is the latest

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prominent name to be linked with the leaking of financial

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When he worked at European football's governing body Uefa,

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he's said to have approved a contract for television rights

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in 2006 with two businessmen, who have since been indicted

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Mr Infantino and Uefa say they've done nothing wrong.

:09:12.:09:17.

Iceland's coalition government has suggested it could seek early

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elections, amid continuing anger a day after the prime

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Sigmundur Gunnlaugsson, whose involvement with an offshore

:09:24.:09:28.

company was revealed by the Panama Papers,

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has denied that he resigned, saying he's handed over

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to his deputy for an unspecified period.

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A former soldier who became one of the youngest people ever

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to receive the George Medal for heroic actions in Iraq tells

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this programme he's now effectively homeless and living in his car.

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As a result of his experiences in Iraq, Daniel Smith, who's now 31,

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has post-traumatic stress disorder and says he feels

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And you can hear his story coming up on the programme

:09:56.:10:01.

Donald Trump's Presidential campaign has been dealt a serious blow

:10:02.:10:06.

after he lost out to his main rival Ted Cruz in the key American

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Donald Trump still leads in the race to become the Republican Party's

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nominee, but his chances of winning outright are now much slimmer.

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And in the Democratic primary, the socialist senator from Vermont,

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Bernie Sanders, beat Hilary Clinton.

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The next president of the United States, Ted Cruz.

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Victory for the Senator from Texas in Wisconsin, one with the backing

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of the Republican Party establishment he loathes.

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Tonight, Wisconsin has lit a candle, guiding the way forward.

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Tonight, we once again have hope for the future.

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It has been a bad week for Donald Trump, flip-flopping

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on abortion, his campaign manager indicted for manhandling

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We could have a big surprise tonight, folks, big surprise.

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That resoundingly wrong prediction another misstep, in

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a campaign getting its first taste of real failure.

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Wisconsin voters also delivered a boost to the underdog in the race

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for the Democratic nomination, the self-declared socialist

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Bernie Sanders winning his seventh contest out of the last eight.

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We have a path toward victory, a path toward the White House.

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Despite losing Wisconsin, Hillary Clinton is still way

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ahead on the numbers, looking to battles in

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New York and California to finish the job.

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But for the Republicans, they could well be heading

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for a damaging and divisive showdown at the summer convention,

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Dogs over eight weeks old must be fitted with microchips from today.

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A law which has been operating in Northern Ireland since 2012

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now applies in England, Scotland and Wales.

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Owners who fail to comply could be fined ?500,

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but the Government estimates more than a million dogs

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That's a summary of the latest BBC News.

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Coming up in the next few minutes, we'll bring you the full moving

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interview with Daniel Smith, who served in Iraq and risked his

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own life to try and rescue some of his colleagues who'd been blown

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up in a roadside bomb, and is now effectively homeless

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He has Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder and feels he's been

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If you or a member of your family has served in the army and has

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PTSD, do get in touch and share your experiences.

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And if you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate.

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But first, Jessica has the sport and more on the return of Rangers

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I am sure there are a few Rangers fans with a few saw heads.

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It's taken them four years, but last night Rangers

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secured their place back in Scottish football's top flight.

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Their 1-0 win over Dumbarton means they will be playing

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in the Premiership next season as manager Mark Warburton ensured

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promotion in his opening season with the club.

:13:20.:13:22.

In front of almost 50,000 fans at Ibrox, James Tavenier's

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second-half goal was a bright spark in what's been a turbulent

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To give this some context, Rangers were punished for going

:13:30.:13:33.

into liquidation four years ago, and were demoted to the bottom tier

:13:34.:13:37.

Talking of bright sparks, Luis Suarez was the star of the show

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in Barcelona's Champions League quarter-final comeback

:13:46.:13:47.

Barcelona were a goal down at half time, but two second-half goals

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in ten minutes from Suarez ensured holders Barca have the advantage

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It took Bayern Munich just two minutes to break down

:13:58.:14:03.

Arturo Vidal's header was the only goal of the game

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In tonight's matches, Manchester City are at

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City will be boosted by the return of their goalkeeper Joe Hart

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from injury as they go into their first Champions

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The last two seasons we could not continue further in the competition,

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because we played against Barcelona. We have improved this season. It is

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a difficult game that we must play, but we have chances to continue. It

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would be important for all of us. Italian prosecutors have called

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for a six-month suspended prison sentence for new Chelsea boss

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Antonio Conte, for his alleged It dates back to 2011 when Conte

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was managing in Italian football. Conte has already served

:14:54.:14:57.

a four-month suspension from the Italian Football

:14:58.:14:58.

Federation for the offence, Currently in charge of the Italian

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national side, Conte will take over as Chelsea manager after Euro 2016

:15:01.:15:05.

in the summer. England rugby union's Joe Marler has

:15:06.:15:10.

been banned and fined for his "gypsy boy" comment to Wales' Samson Lee

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during the Six Nations. Governing body World Rugby issued

:15:14.:15:16.

Marler with the two-match ban and ?20,000 fine for the remark

:15:17.:15:19.

to Lee, who's from the Marler insists he is not a racist

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and has apologised to Lee. Come back at 10am when I will be

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speaking to the former British boxer Audley Harrison to go talk about

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that big heavyweight showdown between Anthony Joshua and Charles

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Martin at the weekend. I look forward to that.

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This morning a former soldier who became one of the youngest

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people ever to receive the George medal for his bravery in Iraq tells

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this programme he's now effectively homeless,

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living in a car and feels let down by the armed forces.

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In 2005, when he was 20, Fusilier Daniel Smith tried

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to save the lives of colleagues twice within the same week

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when his vehicle patrol was hit by roadside bombs in Iraq.

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His Ministry of Defence citation said, "With no

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regard for his own safety and with his focus firmly on saving

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those in the vehicle, he commenced the evacuation

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of the casualties from the burning chaos."

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As a result of his experiences in Iraq, Daniel Smith, who's now 31,

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The charity Combat Stress tells us his story is all too common.

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Our defence correspondent Jonathan Beale has been to meet

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Fusilier Daniel Smith, the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers.

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Daniel Smith is one of the heroes of the Iraq War.

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He was awarded the George Medal at Buckingham Palace for acts

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of great bravery, saving the lives of injured comrades.

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Then 21, he was one of the youngest soldiers to receive it.

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And this should have been his day to remember.

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At the time, he was suffering from PTSD -

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On that day I did not really think much of it.

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I was on medication anyway, so my mood and temperament

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I was very snappy and angry at the time.

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So how do you feel about the Army now?

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I'm very bitter towards them at the minute.

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I don't appreciate getting dumped to one side, in a way.

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In 2005, when Daniel was deployed to Iraq, life for the British

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This, one of the enduring images of the tide turning against them.

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Daniel, too, had to rescue comrades from the burning

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Out on patrol in lightly armoured snatch Land Rovers,

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his unit was targeted and hit by roadside bombs.

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His citation says, "With no regard for his own safety,

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he rescued casualties from the burning chaos."

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If I think back now, I didn't really care

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I didn't know what I was getting into.

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Yes, it was just one of those things where I just did

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it because I had to, because I was team

:18:33.:18:34.

You gather a lot of guilt, a lot of, "Did I do that right,

:18:35.:18:41.

You put a lot of pressure on yourself.

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I was young at the time and obviously newish.

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So I held all that built-up hate that kind of in the bag...

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Obviously, it went all a bit Pete Tong for me, really.

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I did not really know who to talk to.

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I don't think there was much help back then.

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Because, now, PTSD is recognised, and back then it was not really much

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It was more like, you pick yourself up and go.

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I didn't really think it would would affect me.

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At the time I got blown up, I did not think it would affect me.

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Your depression kicks in, you're drinking.

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You don't realise you're changing, but other people see you are.

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And you become angry towards them - "I've changed?"

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"You're the one that's changed," kind of thing.

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He now spends a lot of time on his own.

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The Army did provide treatment for Daniel including six weeks

:20:01.:20:03.

But the flashbacks, anger and resentment did not go away.

:20:04.:20:07.

He left the Army three years ago and has struggled ever since.

:20:08.:20:10.

His marriage collapsed, he has been in and out of work,

:20:11.:20:13.

I hate being around people most of the time, so I sometimes get up

:20:14.:20:22.

here, or out of the way, stuff like that.

:20:23.:20:27.

I have got my quilt and stuff in the back.

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It's like a mobile house, if you know what I mean.

:20:30.:20:36.

When I'm a bit depressed, I'd rather be alone,

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He'll go and sleep in the car at nights because he doesn't

:20:39.:20:47.

feel comfortable staying in a particular environment.

:20:48.:20:49.

He has just been cast adrift, and that is the bit

:20:50.:20:55.

As soon as he is discharged, they have let him go

:20:56.:21:01.

Basically all they have done is put a sticking plaster

:21:02.:21:05.

This is a problem that goes much deeper, as even he can show,

:21:06.:21:16.

looking through old photos of the soldiers

:21:17.:21:17.

He suffered a little bit with drinking.

:21:18.:21:25.

You've got Harry, he killed himself not long after.

:21:26.:21:37.

Are you worried about the future for Daniel?

:21:38.:21:40.

Yeah. I can't see...

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I can't see a long-term recovery. I hope there is.

:21:47.:21:53.

But I think without treatment, without any support network

:21:54.:21:56.

that he needs, and I think he needs it now, I do.

:21:57.:21:58.

We'll hear more from Daniel's dad in just a moment,

:21:59.:22:17.

You are getting in touch. Dave says, "I am a sufferer after 28 years

:22:18.:22:25.

service in the Royal Marines." Stewart says, "Why is a man who

:22:26.:22:30.

fought on behalf this country homeless? Give him a flat. .".

:22:31.:22:38.

First our defence correspondent Jonahan Beale is here with us.

:22:39.:22:41.

How big a problem is it? It is a problem and probably we don't know

:22:42.:22:48.

the full-scale of the problem at the moment because often the symptoms

:22:49.:22:52.

don't come out for time. There is no clear figure, but some research

:22:53.:22:58.

suggests that since 1991, 700,000, more than 700,000 personnel have

:22:59.:23:01.

gone through the military and as many as one in ten of those, that's

:23:02.:23:07.

70,000 people, may have mental health problems. That's work carried

:23:08.:23:14.

out by Professor Neil Greenberg. The MoD says the rates of PTSD are

:23:15.:23:20.

similar to that of the civilian population, but clearly, research

:23:21.:23:23.

has suggested those people who have been in combat situations like

:23:24.:23:28.

Daniel, are more likely to get PTSD. Now, inside the military, there are

:23:29.:23:33.

systems to care for people. There is, I think, an improvement, a

:23:34.:23:38.

dramatic improvement in looking after people since Iraq and

:23:39.:23:41.

Afghanistan over the last ten years looking for the warning signs. Every

:23:42.:23:45.

time people came back from a deployment in Afghanistan, they

:23:46.:23:48.

would go through a trim procedure and go through that sort of period

:23:49.:23:54.

in Cyprus where warning signs were looked at, they were asked questions

:23:55.:23:58.

and tried to make sure everybody sort of was mentally in the right

:23:59.:24:01.

place. I think the big problem is when people move from the military

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and this, I think, Daniel's story, from the military into civilian life

:24:07.:24:10.

and suddenly they switch responsibility from the Ministry of

:24:11.:24:13.

Defence to the National Health Service and notes get lost. They

:24:14.:24:17.

look at, you know, what's on offer if they have got the symptoms of

:24:18.:24:22.

PTSD and there are a plethora of charities and you know, which way do

:24:23.:24:25.

you turn? Some of the charities don't offer treatments that are

:24:26.:24:28.

recognised by medical experts. So it is very difficult for them.

:24:29.:24:32.

Lease the Ministry of Defence saying about all of this? Well, the

:24:33.:24:36.

Ministry of Defence makes the point that they have put a lot of money

:24:37.:24:44.

into these charities, into charities like Combat Stress, money from the

:24:45.:24:48.

LIBOR funds, more than ?2 million has gone into helping mental health.

:24:49.:24:51.

They are having a system, a transition programme, where they are

:24:52.:24:55.

trying to make sure that the medical records go from the Army into the

:24:56.:25:00.

NHS so people have a record of what's gone on. But there are also

:25:01.:25:06.

people, people like Johnny Mercer a MP, a former soldier who says what

:25:07.:25:11.

really should happen we should have like America a veterans department

:25:12.:25:14.

where there is a specific Government department looking after these

:25:15.:25:17.

people when they move from military life into civilian life which is

:25:18.:25:22.

where the problem really is most severe I'd say. Thank you, Jonathan.

:25:23.:25:26.

Let's talk more now about Daniel Smith's case

:25:27.:25:28.

Gary thank you very much for coming in to talk to us. We have seen

:25:29.:25:38.

Jonathan's report and we heard from Gary who is obviously struggling a

:25:39.:25:42.

great deal. Yes, he is. Going back to the start of the report and the

:25:43.:25:46.

moment that he was at Buckingham Palace being honoured by Prince

:25:47.:25:49.

Charles with the Gorge Medal, the youngest soldier to get it, you were

:25:50.:25:53.

there at the Palace that day, how were you feeling? Oh, immensely

:25:54.:25:58.

proud. Immensely proud. I didn't think that years later in 2016 we

:25:59.:26:04.

would be discussing it in this way unfortunately. But it is probably

:26:05.:26:10.

the reason why that we're in this situation that we are able to talk

:26:11.:26:15.

about it because we can use that as an example of at the time the Army

:26:16.:26:20.

wanted to put him on to pedestal which was great, but now, they

:26:21.:26:24.

really need to, I think, help him as well which at the moment I don't

:26:25.:26:29.

think they are. You say he was put on a pedestal. We heard from him in

:26:30.:26:33.

our report. He didn't see it that way, did he on the day? No, he never

:26:34.:26:38.

has. Did you know what was going on in his head at that time? No, no,

:26:39.:26:45.

not really, not at all because a lot of the instances that he has gone

:26:46.:26:50.

through, he has been very quiet about. Even the operations since he

:26:51.:26:57.

left the army, he has been very, very quiet about and he feels a

:26:58.:27:03.

little bit embarrassed, let down, I don't know what you would like to

:27:04.:27:08.

call it really, but he does, he is in desperate need of help at the

:27:09.:27:13.

moment. I mean, he is still battling with the Army to try and get

:27:14.:27:17.

recognised for the level of compensation that he was due which

:27:18.:27:23.

is ridiculous. Which tells me that they still don't understand the PTSD

:27:24.:27:33.

levels. He is clinically been proven that, it is a permanent problem, but

:27:34.:27:38.

they're still saying he can get better. We've got that argument

:27:39.:27:44.

going on at the moment which is ten, 11 years down the line, it is

:27:45.:27:50.

ridiculous. So whilst they are making fantastic in-roads into

:27:51.:27:54.

recognising PTSD, I still think they don't fully understand it yet.

:27:55.:28:01.

Certainly, the categories that of levels of PDSD and it is the early

:28:02.:28:05.

warning signs which I hope they're picking up in the Army now, I'm not

:28:06.:28:08.

sure whether they are, but society is left to deal with the problems

:28:09.:28:14.

that they leave behind. Tell us more about how your son, effectively, I

:28:15.:28:21.

guess you could describe it as being disappeared. Yeah. Yeah. The boy

:28:22.:28:25.

that went into the Army compared with the man that came out. Yeah, I

:28:26.:28:31.

mean, he is very changed. Even when he was in the Army, when he went

:28:32.:28:38.

through this, the conflict, the problems that he has it, the blowing

:28:39.:28:47.

up incidents etcetera, he has changed dramatically and he is never

:28:48.:28:51.

going to get back to the way he used to be. You heard in the clip there

:28:52.:28:57.

that you know, his marriage has failed. And all of that has been

:28:58.:29:04.

after, after all of this. And I really do worry about the future for

:29:05.:29:10.

him to be quite honest with you. But like Johnny was saying earlier, the

:29:11.:29:17.

actual the mechanism when they're coming out of the Army, there

:29:18.:29:21.

doesn't seem to be any assessment and certainly any support network

:29:22.:29:28.

when they get out into what I would call civvy street. They don't seem

:29:29.:29:36.

to get any support with getting employment too much because

:29:37.:29:44.

particularly PTSD guys don't like confrontation and they take

:29:45.:29:46.

themselves away from it. He does that by going and sleeping in his

:29:47.:29:49.

car. How often is he sleeping in his car? Three, four times a week. But

:29:50.:29:59.

he can disappear for weeks. But you're, we tread on glass with him

:30:00.:30:03.

in a sense that we can't ask too much because again, he goes into, he

:30:04.:30:07.

goes into a depression stage and he'll take himself away from those

:30:08.:30:12.

situations that he feels uncomfortable in.

:30:13.:30:50.

seriously think he has been let down. It is the parachute back into

:30:51.:30:53.

society that is the problem. Somebody needs to put the support

:30:54.:31:00.

network in place for guys that can no longer serve, that are considered

:31:01.:31:07.

for medical discharge, and they can go into these places to find work

:31:08.:31:13.

and integrate back into society, which is really a struggle. You have

:31:14.:31:19.

an issue with the way the compensation is awarded, because it

:31:20.:31:23.

is different between physical injuries and mental problems.

:31:24.:31:28.

Explain how it has worked for him. Daniel was originally awarded a

:31:29.:31:34.

level 12, and he has now been given level ten. That means you can get

:31:35.:31:39.

better after five years, which clearly he can't. We have had to pay

:31:40.:31:48.

for independent assessment, which says that it is clearly too proven

:31:49.:31:52.

that the condition he has got is permanent, and there is no chance of

:31:53.:31:56.

recovery. That gives you a level six award, we are into a delaying tactic

:31:57.:32:03.

with the Army at the moment to recognise that. It is part of the

:32:04.:32:10.

compensation scheme, the reason it. In the first place, it helps people

:32:11.:32:13.

integrate back into society, consider give them a better pension

:32:14.:32:19.

and a bigger pay-out. You can either agree or disagree, but the reality

:32:20.:32:23.

is, without any further support network, money is the only thing

:32:24.:32:28.

they can give them. I would much prefer them to give them a support

:32:29.:32:33.

network, but they aren't. That is why the compensation scheme was

:32:34.:32:37.

started. But they don't seem to want to recognise that. That is the

:32:38.:32:41.

disappointing thing with the Army at the moment. I want to read comments

:32:42.:32:47.

from some people watching. Paula says, anybody who fought for their

:32:48.:32:52.

country should be living in a castle. If it says, why the shock

:32:53.:32:57.

that the Armed Forces discard young men? That is what they have always

:32:58.:33:02.

done. One person says, disgusted. Another person says, I am saddened.

:33:03.:33:08.

He is not the first veteran to be found sleeping in his car and he

:33:09.:33:13.

won't be the last. We were saying earlier how common it is. I would

:33:14.:33:21.

call it an epidemic. It is how you treat an epidemic, it seems to be a

:33:22.:33:27.

problem. Our society has got to deal with it. Burying your head in the

:33:28.:33:34.

sand, as appears to be the case at the moment, is not the right way

:33:35.:33:39.

forward. As a dad trying to reach out to your son, a man who is

:33:40.:33:47.

regarded by many as a hero, how do you feel? He has gone from being on

:33:48.:33:56.

a pedestal to where he is now. He has not had his recognition, in the

:33:57.:34:05.

compensation scheme, he does not feel he is supported. He has gone

:34:06.:34:15.

from hero to zero, effectively. That is part of the problem as well.

:34:16.:34:20.

An MOD spokesperson told us that it couldn't comment on individual

:34:21.:34:24.

cases like Daniel's, but it said, "We provide a wide

:34:25.:34:26.

range of support both during and after military service,

:34:27.:34:29.

including the Career Transition Partnership scheme, which helps

:34:30.:34:31.

individuals transition into civilian life.

:34:32.:34:32.

Veterans are eligible for resettlement support

:34:33.:34:34.

and priority NHS treatment for conditions linked

:34:35.:34:36.

We're one of the world's richest countries but at a time of cutbacks

:34:37.:34:47.

can we still afford to spend ?12 billion a year on foreign aid

:34:48.:34:51.

Tell us what you think on Twitter, text or e-mail.

:34:52.:34:55.

And who'll replace Boris Johnson as Mayor of London in a month's time?

:34:56.:34:59.

Our political guru Norman Smith chats with Ukip's candidate in

:35:00.:35:02.

Here's Maxine in the BBC Newsroom with a summary of today's news.

:35:03.:35:17.

Junior doctors in England have begun their fourth walkout in their

:35:18.:35:20.

Although 5,000 operations have been cancelled,

:35:21.:35:27.

The Government says the action is irresponsible

:35:28.:35:32.

The Business Secretary Sajid Javid is calling for a responsible sales

:35:33.:35:39.

process of the steel works in Port Talbot as he

:35:40.:35:41.

arrives in Mumbai to meet the boss of Tata Steel.

:35:42.:35:44.

Mr Javid had talks in Downing Street yesterday with David Cameron

:35:45.:35:48.

and the Wales First Minister to discuss ways of saving

:35:49.:35:51.

Port Talbot and the other Tata-owned UK steel plants.

:35:52.:35:56.

It's thought Tata wants to sell its loss-making plants

:35:57.:35:58.

Mr Javid will meet the Tata chairman and he's expected to press

:35:59.:36:02.

for reassurances on the terms of the sale.

:36:03.:36:11.

The new president of Fifa has been linked with the leaking of financial

:36:12.:36:21.

documents in Panama. He was a co-signatories to a contract for the

:36:22.:36:25.

sale of television rights in 2006 at Uefa with two businessmen who have

:36:26.:36:29.

since been indicted on corruption charges. He and Uefa say they have

:36:30.:36:37.

done nothing wrong. Iceland's Government could seek

:36:38.:36:41.

early elections amid continuing and a day after the Prime Minister

:36:42.:36:45.

stepped aside. His involvement with an offshore company was revealed by

:36:46.:36:51.

the Panama papers. He has denied he resigned, saying he has handed over

:36:52.:36:54.

to his deputy for an unspecified period.

:36:55.:36:57.

And coming up at 11:30am on the News Channel,

:36:58.:36:59.

I'll be putting your queries to a tax expert about

:37:00.:37:01.

You can send us your questions using the hashtag #BBCAskThis

:37:02.:37:04.

A former solider who became one of the youngest people ever

:37:05.:37:12.

to receive the George Medal for heroic actions in Iraq tells

:37:13.:37:15.

this programme he's now effectively homeless and living in his car.

:37:16.:37:18.

As a result of his experiences in Iraq, Daniel Smith, who's now 31,

:37:19.:37:23.

has post-traumatic stress disorder and says he feels

:37:24.:37:27.

I am very bitter towards them. I don't appreciate getting dumped to

:37:28.:37:43.

one side. I feel I have been cast aside.

:37:44.:37:45.

David Cameron is being accused of breaking his promises

:37:46.:37:47.

In an open letter published in the Guardian, a number of people

:37:48.:37:54.

affected by the phone-hacking scandal say they feel betrayed.

:37:55.:37:56.

A key part of the Royal Charter agreement on press regulation has

:37:57.:37:59.

been approved by Parliament, but has not yet come into law.

:38:00.:38:01.

Gerry McCann, the father of missing Madeline McCann,

:38:02.:38:03.

signed the letter and says little has changed since

:38:04.:38:05.

the recommendations were put forward by the Leveson Inquiry.

:38:06.:38:07.

That's a summary of the latest BBC News, more at 10am.

:38:08.:38:10.

Jessica's here now with all the sport headlines.

:38:11.:38:15.

Rangers are back in the Scottish Premiership.

:38:16.:38:17.

After four years away, they secured their return with a 1-0

:38:18.:38:20.

Rangers were punished for going into liquidation

:38:21.:38:25.

and demoted to the bottom tier in 2012.

:38:26.:38:29.

Luis Suarez was the star of the show in Barcelona's Champions League

:38:30.:38:32.

quarter-final comeback against Atletico Madrid.

:38:33.:38:35.

Two second-half goals in ten minutes from Suarez ensured holders Barca

:38:36.:38:38.

have the advantage for the second leg next week.

:38:39.:38:41.

Bayern Munich beat Benfica 1-0 in last night's other

:38:42.:38:43.

Tonight, Manchester City are at Paris Saint Germain

:38:44.:38:51.

and welcome back their goalkeeper Joe Hart from injury.

:38:52.:38:54.

It will be City's first appearance in a Champions League quarter-final.

:38:55.:38:58.

England rugby union's Joe Marler has been banned and fined for his "gypsy

:38:59.:39:02.

boy" comment to Wales' Samson Lee during the Six Nations.

:39:03.:39:06.

Governing body World Rugby issued Marler with the two-match ban

:39:07.:39:09.

and ?20,000 fine for the remark to Lee, who's from the

:39:10.:39:12.

The UK Government is in debt to the tune of over ?1.6 trillion.

:39:13.:39:26.

Every second, that figure goes up by ?5,000.

:39:27.:39:29.

Trying to cut both the debt and the deficit ? that's

:39:30.:39:32.

the difference between the amount of money the Government spends

:39:33.:39:34.

and receives ? has proved difficult for successive governments.

:39:35.:39:38.

Since the last budget in March, when the Chancellor George Osborne

:39:39.:39:40.

was forced to abandon plans to cut disability payments,

:39:41.:39:43.

focus has turned to what other areas of Government spending could be cut.

:39:44.:39:48.

And foreign aid has come under the spotlight again.

:39:49.:39:55.

The UK spends around ?11.7 billion on international development aid.

:39:56.:39:57.

That is 0.7% of national income, and it's been ringfenced at that

:39:58.:40:02.

In other words, they've promised not to cut it.

:40:03.:40:06.

Just under 60% of that money went to individual countries.

:40:07.:40:09.

It's known as bilateral aid, while just over 40% went

:40:10.:40:12.

to the United Nations and charities or non-governmental

:40:13.:40:15.

organisations, and that is known as multilateral aid.

:40:16.:40:20.

In 2014, Ethiopia, India and Pakistan received

:40:21.:40:23.

India is especially controversial, as its economy is almost as big

:40:24.:40:30.

as the UK's, and it will probably overtake us in the coming years.

:40:31.:40:35.

The cash went on things like healthcare, education

:40:36.:40:37.

and humanitarian aid for people in need after wars

:40:38.:40:41.

Most of the multilateral aid goes to organisations which divvy up

:40:42.:40:46.

the money between charities that need it most.

:40:47.:40:49.

the International Development Association,

:40:50.:40:52.

the part of the World Bank which helps

:40:53.:40:54.

That is as well as organisations like the Global Fund to fight

:40:55.:41:00.

Aids, TB and malaria, and the Global Alliance

:41:01.:41:02.

International development is one of only three departments that have

:41:03.:41:08.

The Government has committed to spending 2% of national income

:41:09.:41:15.

a year on defence, while health spending is at 8%, with more

:41:16.:41:19.

Many other Government departments, like the ones that spend money

:41:20.:41:25.

on benefits or local councils, are facing cuts of up to 20% or 30%,

:41:26.:41:30.

and some MPs are calling for foreign aid to be cut, too.

:41:31.:41:35.

Some examples of where that money has gone recently include helping

:41:36.:41:38.

nine million children into primary school, helping some

:41:39.:41:41.

of the four million refugees who've fled Syria since war began

:41:42.:41:44.

and helping control the spread of Ebola.

:41:45.:41:47.

But critics also say the money goes to countries like India,

:41:48.:41:50.

who spend hundreds of millions on space-exploration programmes.

:41:51.:41:55.

This morning, we really want to get a sense from you on what you think.

:41:56.:41:59.

Is foreign aid the right thing to do, or should

:42:00.:42:01.

Well, we can talk now to Peter Bone, a Conservative MP who wants us

:42:02.:42:06.

to spend less on foreign aid, and by Virendra Sharma,

:42:07.:42:09.

a Labour MP and member for the International

:42:10.:42:11.

Development Committee, who maintains the budget

:42:12.:42:12.

Why should it be ring fenced? It is important that we as a British

:42:13.:42:30.

Government and people become part of the global community. Provide the

:42:31.:42:38.

resources to those who need them, and we want them to come back into

:42:39.:42:42.

the 21st-century with the skills and knowledge. That is what we are

:42:43.:42:50.

hoping to which Eve. That is why we support that this aid should be ring

:42:51.:42:54.

fenced in those areas where the people are getting the skills,

:42:55.:42:59.

knowledge and freedom, and good governance, so they can become part

:43:00.:43:04.

of the 21st-century world, rather than some people left behind. Peter

:43:05.:43:11.

Bone, you disagree. I don't disagree with the sentiment, but the way it

:43:12.:43:15.

is done is wrong. How India transformed itself, and China, was

:43:16.:43:23.

by allowing the economy to grow and by exporting to organisations like

:43:24.:43:27.

the EU. The fact that the EU stops developing countries' market access

:43:28.:43:34.

is what is wrong. The solution is not handing more money out, ?12

:43:35.:43:40.

billion this year, it is allowing countries to trade and develop that

:43:41.:43:47.

way. The clear on what you think about the aid Budget. Should it be

:43:48.:43:54.

ring fenced? One is, what is the right way forward? It is trade.

:43:55.:44:02.

Then, this thing of having 0.7% of having gross national income ring

:44:03.:44:10.

fenced. The only other areas which have seen an increase on spending is

:44:11.:44:17.

international aid and the EU. We are cutting every other department. Why

:44:18.:44:22.

are we cutting our services at home and making it difficult for the

:44:23.:44:26.

health service, the police, benefits are and we are paying this extra

:44:27.:44:31.

money abroad? A lot of it is not going on but projects, it is wasted.

:44:32.:44:37.

Would you say zero on foreign aid? There is another problem, you have

:44:38.:44:44.

been talking about humanitarian aid, absolutely right, and we should

:44:45.:44:48.

respond to that with the need, not as a fixed percentage. If we need to

:44:49.:44:52.

spend more if there is a huge crisis, we should. But we should not

:44:53.:44:57.

dole it out to dubious countries to make the leaders of those countries

:44:58.:45:01.

more corrupt than they are at the moment. I disagree. We are not

:45:02.:45:07.

handing over the money. It is spent through a department, given on

:45:08.:45:16.

projects which improve the living conditions, childbirth rate, better

:45:17.:45:19.

education for women and girls, improving the health provision in

:45:20.:45:23.

those areas, giving disadvantaged people who need the skills to get

:45:24.:45:26.

into the 21st-century. Raez That would sound good, but it

:45:27.:45:36.

is not true. We give them two a third party, who then distributes

:45:37.:45:41.

them and we have no... We give money to the Palestinian Authority which

:45:42.:45:45.

gives money to subsidise the families of terrorists who are in

:45:46.:45:48.

prison. I mean that cannot be right. This sort of... Specific examples

:45:49.:45:55.

like that. The Department for International Development says

:45:56.:45:58.

actually there are all sorts of things out there about claims of

:45:59.:46:02.

where the money goes and a lot them are inaccurate. The money is, I'm

:46:03.:46:06.

reading from a statement saying the money is spent where it is most

:46:07.:46:10.

needed and subject to rigorous checks. If you ask the Secretary of

:46:11.:46:14.

State, she would say there are problems with this and what she says

:46:15.:46:20.

to me a lot of the money in foreign said given through other departments

:46:21.:46:26.

who have less control on it than they do. First the Secretary of

:46:27.:46:31.

State, she is the most defender of that international aid. Not giving

:46:32.:46:35.

it away on corrupt projects. She doesn't want to do that. She is

:46:36.:46:38.

monitoring it. Everybody is monitoring it. It is monitored. Are

:46:39.:46:50.

you question the capability and the credibility of the department?

:46:51.:46:55.

Absolutely I am. If you think our money... Are you telling me that all

:46:56.:47:01.

the money we spend goes to projects and none of it goes to corrupt

:47:02.:47:05.

Government? None of it finishes up in military expenditure and none of

:47:06.:47:09.

this money goes to India or China and or countries that don't need it.

:47:10.:47:18.

There is a large example where the 44 plus thousand women were given

:47:19.:47:26.

health related benefits. There were the children where the childbirth

:47:27.:47:30.

rate was saved, thousands and thousands of children. There was 3.5

:47:31.:47:36.

million families who were given the feed and the aid. That's all well

:47:37.:47:41.

and good, but John on Facebook saying, "As many people say, charity

:47:42.:47:45.

begins at home and not in other countries." The amount we are giving

:47:46.:47:55.

into those countries is only that aid runs the country. The countries

:47:56.:48:00.

themselves are also contributing to that. It is a partnership. But at a

:48:01.:48:05.

time when cuts are being made here because of the level of debt, is it

:48:06.:48:10.

not about a budget that should be looked at like all others? It is the

:48:11.:48:15.

Government's own policy failure that they cannot balance it. Their own

:48:16.:48:20.

attitude on these issues where they are confusing the people. You would

:48:21.:48:26.

rather spend money abroad than on supporting people back at home. No,

:48:27.:48:29.

you have to accept that. No, you can't. Peter... We can still spend

:48:30.:48:35.

the money. We have the resources... No. Look, your introduction made it

:48:36.:48:41.

quite clear that actually we are not funding this. We are borrowing more

:48:42.:48:48.

money to fund T we are not taking it from taxpayers, we are borrowing

:48:49.:48:51.

more money. It will be our children who are paying it off. It is

:48:52.:48:56.

fundamentally wrong. We pay twice as much as France in international aid.

:48:57.:48:59.

We are doing sticking plaster stuff. We are not dealing with the

:49:00.:49:03.

important factor of allowing trade. I want to put a specific argument to

:49:04.:49:07.

you from the Department of International development saying the

:49:08.:49:10.

money is spent in the national interests, it helps create a more

:49:11.:49:14.

stable and prosperous world in which the UK can stand tall and flourish

:49:15.:49:20.

causing the root causes of the migration crisis and improving the

:49:21.:49:24.

economic prospects in fragile states and building trading partners and

:49:25.:49:29.

reduce the threat to the UK from Ebola in West Africa. Would you

:49:30.:49:34.

agree there is an element, however you want to quantify of it of self

:49:35.:49:37.

interest in helping the countries? Well, I do think it is wrong, if

:49:38.:49:42.

what we are saying is, we're dolling out money to have some sort of soft

:49:43.:49:48.

power for British interests. Some sort colonial rule... But if it is

:49:49.:49:52.

in the national interests? It is not in the national interests what they

:49:53.:49:56.

are doing. Things like Ebola, humanitarian crisis circumstances of

:49:57.:50:00.

course, we should deal z do it. They have not addressed in that

:50:01.:50:03.

statement, opening up the European Union market so the countries can

:50:04.:50:07.

trade, the countries can become prosperous and they become developed

:50:08.:50:11.

countries. It is completely ignoring the proper argument that it is

:50:12.:50:15.

trade, not aid that solves poverty. If you want to get rid of poverty,

:50:16.:50:19.

open up the European Union. We will wrap up with a couple more comments

:50:20.:50:24.

from viewers. Mark says, "It is time to cut aid and target it better."

:50:25.:50:30.

Grace says, "It is important that UK aid should be managed, it should be

:50:31.:50:35.

increased, not reduced. Innocent human beings are living and dying

:50:36.:50:41.

without clean water, food, education and so much more. They are suffering

:50:42.:50:45.

more than anyone in the UK." Thank you for discussing that withes and

:50:46.:50:48.

thank you for your comments and we will be tacking about it later on

:50:49.:50:51.

the programme. Keep your comments coming in and we will try to bring

:50:52.:50:53.

your comments into our debate later. Coming up, victims

:50:54.:50:59.

of the hacking scandal say they feel betrayed

:51:00.:51:01.

by the Prime Minister, and accuse him of

:51:02.:51:03.

breaking his promises. We ask one man whose phone

:51:04.:51:04.

was hacked after he was caught up in the 7/7 attacks

:51:05.:51:07.

why he feels let down. All this week we're hearing

:51:08.:51:15.

from some of the candidates standing Our political guru Norman Smith has

:51:16.:51:18.

taken Labour's Sadiq Khan and Conservative's Zac Goldsmith

:51:19.:51:22.

for a spin in his cab and today he's You are in the back of the cab

:51:23.:51:33.

today. Not driving. Is he driving? I'm in the... I'm glad to say those

:51:34.:51:38.

pedestrians and cyclists, you are safe today! I'm not driving! I'm in

:51:39.:51:42.

the back of the cab today and joining me is Peter Whittle, the

:51:43.:51:47.

Ukip mayoral candidate for London. Peter, you are a South London boy

:51:48.:51:50.

from Peckham. We will ask you London questions in a bit, but let's start

:51:51.:51:54.

off with what is your big thing. You say if you become mayor, you will

:51:55.:51:58.

get a grip of immigration. But how are you going to do that The thing

:51:59.:52:02.

is the two, in your own poll last week at the BBC, the two biggest

:52:03.:52:07.

concerns for London he weres housing quite rightly and immigration. All

:52:08.:52:10.

I'm saying which the other candidates are not, these two are

:52:11.:52:14.

linked. It is common sense and most people can see that. So what I would

:52:15.:52:18.

do and what I think the mayor has got an obligation to do is to put

:52:19.:52:22.

that case to Government and say look, you know, we have to have a

:52:23.:52:26.

proper fair controlled migration system in order to get a long-term

:52:27.:52:33.

handle on the housing situation. Is there anything you as mayor could

:52:34.:52:37.

actually do or is it just talk? No, if you remember Boris when he was

:52:38.:52:42.

mayor said, he is still mayor, but he said there should be a full

:52:43.:52:46.

amnesty for illegal migrants. The mayor is in a position of

:52:47.:52:50.

extraordinary influence and if the mayor doesn't do that, who does?

:52:51.:52:54.

London's economy, as you know, is built on immigration and a lot of

:52:55.:52:58.

immigrants, probably are here illegally, cleaning the streets,

:52:59.:53:01.

working in care homes, working in kitchens. Would you say they must

:53:02.:53:07.

go? We have to get rid of them or would you say no, let's give them an

:53:08.:53:12.

amnesty? I don't believe in an amnesty at all. It sends out the

:53:13.:53:17.

wrong message. It works in migrants disfavour because it encourages

:53:18.:53:19.

people-trafficking. I think it is the wrong way to go. I think the

:53:20.:53:23.

fact is London is a great booming city, but it has got amazing strains

:53:24.:53:29.

now on all of its infrastructure. Its housing, its transport, its

:53:30.:53:33.

social services and the fact is, all we're saying is there has got to be

:53:34.:53:38.

for the country and indeed for London, a fair, but controlled

:53:39.:53:42.

immigration system. Let's talk about housing. You say you want to give

:53:43.:53:45.

priority to Londoners in terms of housing? Yes. Who is a Londoner?

:53:46.:53:50.

Well, what we have worked out, London is a modern city, you know,

:53:51.:53:56.

and there is always going to be a transittry element to a place like

:53:57.:53:59.

London. In terms of social housing, if you have been in London for five

:54:00.:54:03.

years, we think that's a reasonable time that you should then have

:54:04.:54:07.

priority when it comes to housing. Social housing. What happens to

:54:08.:54:11.

someone born and brought up in London, maybe gone away for a few

:54:12.:54:14.

years and come back. They go to the back of the queue again? They would

:54:15.:54:19.

say they are Londoners? Exactly, but you have to make a move on this. I

:54:20.:54:22.

mean in the sense that obviously there are different cases such as

:54:23.:54:26.

that, but there is a lot of worry about the fact that people who are

:54:27.:54:30.

have been in London for a while, people have been put down roots,

:54:31.:54:34.

somehow or other don't get a fair say. That is a very divisive policy

:54:35.:54:39.

because it is saying to some people in London, OK, you are a true

:54:40.:54:43.

Londoner, you're not quite a Londoner and you are not a Londoner.

:54:44.:54:47.

Isn't that what it amounts to? No, I don't accept it at all. Say five

:54:48.:54:52.

years, if you have been living in a place or and put down certain roots

:54:53.:54:57.

for five years, I think that's a very reasonable time in which to

:54:58.:55:00.

have priority. OK. A lot of controversy about the Panama Papers

:55:01.:55:05.

and off-shore funds buying up property in London. Vast amounts of

:55:06.:55:08.

property driving up prices. What would you do about that? Would you

:55:09.:55:14.

say you can only by a London property if you are a UK taxpayer?

:55:15.:55:17.

No, I don't say that, that's unrealistic. I think the problem,

:55:18.:55:22.

the main problem is that when people buy up property, but then leave it

:55:23.:55:26.

empty and that squeezes the whole market. That's what off-shore funds

:55:27.:55:32.

do? Exactly. We would penalise this further by not just putting the

:55:33.:55:36.

useful council tax on it, but doubling council tax on things that

:55:37.:55:40.

remained empty for two years. That's a fair point. We have got to do

:55:41.:55:44.

quick London questions, you use the Tube, you probably got off at

:55:45.:55:48.

Westminster. OK. What's next welcome, St James' park, Victoria?

:55:49.:55:53.

Westminster, St James' Park, Victoria, Sloane Square. Very good.

:55:54.:55:57.

You're shopping in Oxford Street. I'm going to give you three out of

:55:58.:56:03.

the four department stores, John Lewis, Debenhams, Selfridges DH

:56:04.:56:09.

Evans. Football fan? I was always the fat kid at school! This is a

:56:10.:56:17.

half television question. You remember Til Death Us Depart. Who

:56:18.:56:21.

did he support? West Ham. Who said if you're tired of London, you're

:56:22.:56:25.

tired of life? Dr Johnson. Very good. Thank you very much, Joanna,

:56:26.:56:34.

we have given Peter a grilling. I thought it was going to turn into a

:56:35.:56:37.

therapy question when you asked the question about football and he went

:56:38.:56:42.

back to the school days. Anyway, good stuff, thank you.

:56:43.:56:48.

In total 12 candidates are hoping to succeed Boris Johnson as mayor

:56:49.:56:51.

of London in the election on 5th May.

:56:52.:56:53.

You can find a full list of them on the BBC News site.

:56:54.:56:56.

If you want to watch back or share Norman taking a cab

:56:57.:56:59.

with Zac Goldsmith or Sadiq Khan you can find them on our programme

:57:00.:57:02.

Junior doctors in England have just gone on strike again this morning

:57:03.:57:11.

It's over a dispute with the Government over a new contract.

:57:12.:57:17.

Our Health Correspondent Adam Brimelow is with us.

:57:18.:57:20.

We are in a position where the Government says it will be imposing

:57:21.:57:26.

the contract. Bring us up-to-date with how we have got here? It has

:57:27.:57:31.

been a saga. At the heart of this is a dispute over pay and working

:57:32.:57:37.

conditions as these can affect safety and also doctors' working

:57:38.:57:41.

hours, really what we're looking at here is an attempt by the Government

:57:42.:57:46.

to make it easier for hospitals to get doctors to work at weekends,

:57:47.:57:50.

make it less expensive for them to do that. Junior doctors say look,

:57:51.:57:53.

they are already working at weekends and the changes in the contract

:57:54.:57:57.

would have the effect of really making them work too hard which

:57:58.:58:01.

could affect their judgement, make them too tired and that can knock on

:58:02.:58:06.

in terms of patient safety. So, really, there have been lots of

:58:07.:58:08.

issues surrounding this contract, but it is really got stuck on thish

:58:09.:58:14.

uof premium pay on Saturday. The doctors, if you like, arguing to

:58:15.:58:17.

keep Saturday special. They want the premium rates. The Government made

:58:18.:58:20.

some concessions on that, but clearly, not enough in terms of the

:58:21.:58:26.

BMA stance after really years of negotiation, the Government lost

:58:27.:58:30.

patience. It says it will impose the contract later this year and we have

:58:31.:58:33.

reached a real impasse. So four strikes so far. And another one

:58:34.:58:38.

planned, 26th, 27th April is the next date? Yeah and that really

:58:39.:58:43.

takes it into new territory because the junior doctors will extend their

:58:44.:58:47.

action into A, to emergency surgery and intensive care, that's

:58:48.:58:50.

something that never happened before in the NHS. It doesn't mean those

:58:51.:58:55.

services are going to stop because hospitals will bring in more

:58:56.:58:58.

consultants and other healthcare staff to keep the show on the road

:58:59.:59:04.

in those areas and every effort will be made to ensure patients are safe,

:59:05.:59:10.

but there will be a knock on effect particularly for knee and hip

:59:11.:59:15.

operations and cataract procedures, much bigger disruption probably than

:59:16.:59:17.

we have seen so far and that's worrying at a time for the NHS when

:59:18.:59:21.

it is already working at or beyond full stretch. This dispute, remember

:59:22.:59:25.

is just about England, it is not happening in other parts of the UK.

:59:26.:59:30.

What is going on to try to to resolve this? What would it take?

:59:31.:59:34.

Unfortunately, we seem to have reached a point where the two sides

:59:35.:59:42.

haven't reached a point over what they disagree about. We have got a

:59:43.:59:48.

break down in trust. We have got patients group and doctors groups

:59:49.:59:52.

saying they need to step back from the brink. There have been calls for

:59:53.:00:02.

the BMA ka 20 to call off the strike action. The atmosphere is so bad,

:00:03.:00:05.

further industrial action seems likely. Two points that could affect

:00:06.:00:10.

things in the coming weeks, public opinion, so far, it has been pretty

:00:11.:00:13.

strongly behind the junior doctors. Will that remain the case as the

:00:14.:00:17.

dispute intensifies and there is further disruption? And then, we

:00:18.:00:22.

have got the attitude of junior doctors themselves. They have been

:00:23.:00:27.

out four times now. The dispute is due to escalate, will support for

:00:28.:00:32.

this dispute from the junior doctors themselves continue to sustain the

:00:33.:00:37.

momentum? Or will some of them decide the battle has been going on

:00:38.:00:41.

for too long, that's what the Government would like to see.

:00:42.:00:45.

Thank you, Adam. Now let's catch up with the weather. Nick Miller has

:00:46.:00:46.

the details. people who need the skills to get

:00:47.:00:55.

into the 21st-century. It is feeling more like winter. The

:00:56.:01:07.

lower temperatures adding to the colder feel.

:01:08.:01:09.

Some sunshine, but the showers could have hailed from the associated with

:01:10.:01:20.

them. Very gusty wind. The gusts will be approaching 60 miles an

:01:21.:01:25.

hour. That is adding in the chill we have talked about.

:01:26.:01:31.

Out of the wind, if you have a bit of sunshine in between the showers,

:01:32.:01:40.

it may not feel too bad. But it is cold overnight, further showers

:01:41.:01:44.

around. The bigger batch of showers heading south to stop the day, then

:01:45.:01:48.

sunshine and scattered showers for the afternoon, driven along on a

:01:49.:01:54.

brisk north-westerly wind. With the wind, it will feel colder than this.

:01:55.:01:58.

The unsettled theme will continue on Friday and into the weekend.

:01:59.:02:04.

Hello, welcome to the programme if you've just joined us.

:02:05.:02:11.

Junior doctors begin another 48-hour strike,

:02:12.:02:12.

their fourth walkout in their long-running

:02:13.:02:14.

Hailed a hero in Iraq, the youngest-ever soldier to receive

:02:15.:02:21.

the George Medal tells this programme he feels

:02:22.:02:23.

He suffers from PTSD and now sleeps in his car.

:02:24.:02:31.

I didn't think it would affect me because it didn't feel

:02:32.:02:34.

reality at the time, and obviously after a year it sinks

:02:35.:02:37.

in and your depression kicks in and your drinking,

:02:38.:02:40.

but you don't realise you're changing, but other

:02:41.:02:42.

His father says he feels cast aside. He has gone from hero to zero,

:02:43.:02:55.

effectively. We will hear from other soldiers in

:02:56.:02:58.

similar positions next. We're one of the world's richest

:02:59.:03:07.

countries, but at a time of severe cuts to Government spending,

:03:08.:03:10.

can we still afford to spend ?12 billion a year on foreign aid,

:03:11.:03:13.

or is it time to think again? It is important that we become part

:03:14.:03:26.

of the global community. Why are we cutting our services at home, making

:03:27.:03:30.

it difficult for the health service, the police, benefits?

:03:31.:03:35.

Junior doctors in England have begun another 48-hour strike,

:03:36.:03:49.

their fourth walkout in their long-running

:03:50.:03:51.

Although 5,000 operations have been cancelled,

:03:52.:03:53.

The Government says the action is irresponsible

:03:54.:03:57.

The Business Secretary Sajid Javid is calling for a responsible sales

:03:58.:04:03.

process of the steelworks in Port Talbot as he

:04:04.:04:06.

arrives in Mumbai to meet the boss of Tata Steel.

:04:07.:04:12.

Mr Javid had talks in Downing Street yesterday with David Cameron

:04:13.:04:14.

and the Wales First Minister to discuss ways of saving

:04:15.:04:16.

Port Talbot and the other Tata-owned UK steel plants.

:04:17.:04:19.

It's thought Tata wants to sell its loss-making plants

:04:20.:04:21.

Mr Javid will meet the Tata chairman, and he's expected to press

:04:22.:04:25.

for reassurances on the terms of the sale.

:04:26.:04:27.

Donald Trump has been handed a blow after losing in Wisconsin. His main

:04:28.:04:37.

rival Ted Cruz easily won, making it harder for the businessman to win

:04:38.:04:41.

the Republican race at right. Donald Trump said the party leadership was

:04:42.:04:44.

trying to steal the nomination from him.

:04:45.:04:45.

The new president of Fifa, Gianni Infantino, is the latest

:04:46.:04:47.

prominent name to be linked with the leaking of financial

:04:48.:04:50.

When he worked at European football's governing body Uefa,

:04:51.:04:53.

he was a cosignatory to a contract for the sale of television rights

:04:54.:04:57.

in 2006 with two businessmen who have since been indicted

:04:58.:05:02.

Mr Infantino and Uefa say they've done nothing wrong.

:05:03.:05:09.

Iceland's coalition government has suggested it could seek early

:05:10.:05:11.

elections amid continuing anger a day after the prime

:05:12.:05:14.

Sigmundur Gunnlaugsson, whose involvement with an offshore

:05:15.:05:19.

company was revealed by the Panama Papers,

:05:20.:05:22.

has denied that he resigned, saying he's handed over

:05:23.:05:24.

to his deputy for an unspecified period.

:05:25.:05:28.

A former soldier who became one of the youngest people ever

:05:29.:05:32.

to receive the George Medal for heroic actions in Iraq tells

:05:33.:05:35.

this programme he's now effectively homeless and living in his car.

:05:36.:05:39.

At 11:30am, I will talk about offshore tax havens on the BBC News

:05:40.:05:44.

Channel. A former soldier who became one

:05:45.:05:45.

of the youngest people ever to receive the George Medal

:05:46.:05:48.

for heroic actions in Iraq tells this programme he's now effectively

:05:49.:05:50.

homeless and living in his car. As a result of his experiences

:05:51.:05:54.

in Iraq, Daniel Smith, who's now 31, has post-traumatic stress disorder

:05:55.:05:58.

and says he feels I don't appreciate being dumped to

:05:59.:06:01.

one side. I have been cast aside. David Cameron is being accused

:06:02.:06:19.

of breaking his promises In an open letter published

:06:20.:06:22.

in the Guardian, a number of people affected by the phone-hacking

:06:23.:06:26.

scandal say they feel betrayed. A key part of the Royal Charter

:06:27.:06:28.

agreement on press regulation has been approved by Parliament,

:06:29.:06:31.

but has not yet come into law, after a Government decision

:06:32.:06:33.

to postpone it. Gerry McCann, the father

:06:34.:06:35.

of missing Madeline McCann, signed the letter and says little

:06:36.:06:37.

has changed since the recommendations were put forward

:06:38.:06:39.

by the Leveson Inquiry. All dogs over eight weeks old must

:06:40.:06:41.

be fitted with identifying A law which has been operating

:06:42.:06:44.

in Northern Ireland since 2012 now applies in England,

:06:45.:06:48.

Scotland and Wales. Owners who fail to comply could be

:06:49.:06:50.

fined ?500 but the Government estimates more than a million dogs

:06:51.:06:53.

have yet to be chipped. That's a summary of

:06:54.:06:58.

the latest BBC News. Do get in touch with us

:06:59.:07:01.

throughout the morning. Lots of you getting in touch about

:07:02.:07:15.

foreign aid. Fiona says, it should be stopped or cut, the Tories

:07:16.:07:21.

promised transparency. Stuart says, if you can afford a space programme,

:07:22.:07:26.

you don't need a hand-out. Tristan says, should we continue this? Yes,

:07:27.:07:31.

we have a duty to help those worst off than ourselves. Keep on letting

:07:32.:07:37.

us know what you think. We will talk to some of you on air.

:07:38.:07:43.

And if you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate.

:07:44.:07:47.

Jessica's back with the sport now, and a look ahead to Anthony Joshua's

:07:48.:07:50.

heavyweight world title fight this weekend.

:07:51.:07:57.

British heavyweight champion Anthony Joshua goes for the IBF

:07:58.:08:01.

world title when he takes on Charles Martin on Saturday,

:08:02.:08:03.

in what will be his toughest fight to date.

:08:04.:08:05.

Joshua is yet to lose as a professional, and all of his

:08:06.:08:08.

wins have been by knockout, but critics have said it might be

:08:09.:08:11.

a step too soon for Joshua, with only 15 bouts under his belt.

:08:12.:08:16.

Olympic boxing champion from 2000 Audley Harrison joins me.

:08:17.:08:19.

Initially, I thought it would be a step too far, not because of who he

:08:20.:08:37.

is facing, but because of what it means if he wins, he will be on the

:08:38.:08:42.

level of Wladimir Klitschko and some of those experienced guys. But it is

:08:43.:08:45.

such a great opportunity to challenge for the world title

:08:46.:08:50.

against Charles Martin, who is a new champion, young, undefeated and

:08:51.:08:56.

hungry. This is a great opportunity for Anthony Joshua to become the

:08:57.:09:02.

world champion. You have some great insight into Charles Martin, what is

:09:03.:09:06.

he like as a fighter? He is here in California. He does not have the

:09:07.:09:12.

amateur pedigree, he did not come through that programme, but he is a

:09:13.:09:18.

rugged southpaw, six foot five, a good project, a counterpuncher, so

:09:19.:09:22.

he thinks about what he is doing. Anthony Joshua's strength is

:09:23.:09:26.

unrivalled in terms of heavyweights coming up. Look at George Foreman,

:09:27.:09:31.

Frank Bruno, they had a brutish strength, it is hard to keep them

:09:32.:09:37.

off. I will be intrigued to see what Charles Martin does to keep Anthony

:09:38.:09:45.

Joshua away from him. The atmosphere will be incredible, 20,000 people

:09:46.:09:49.

cheering his name. Charles Martin is coming into the Lions' down. All of

:09:50.:09:56.

the cards are pointing towards Anthony Joshua becoming champion of

:09:57.:10:00.

the world. What have you made of his career? The winning Olympic gold, he

:10:01.:10:06.

has done very well, 15 fights and 15 knockouts. He has not put a foot

:10:07.:10:12.

wrong. He is living the life, training, focused on his boxing,

:10:13.:10:16.

every guy they have given him he has dispatched. His last guy was a step

:10:17.:10:21.

up, it was a great fight, and he came through. This is another step

:10:22.:10:28.

up. If he wins this fight, there are so many big fights out there, all of

:10:29.:10:32.

the sudden the division is so exciting, not just in Britain but

:10:33.:10:37.

around the world, which is what heavyweight boxing has needed.

:10:38.:10:42.

Rubbermaid fridge go losing to Tyson Fury has opened the door, we have

:10:43.:10:46.

some mouthwatering fights on the table. Boxing fans will enjoy that

:10:47.:10:53.

on Saturday, a big match, heavyweight world title between

:10:54.:10:58.

Anthony Joshua and Charles Martin. That is all the sport for now.

:10:59.:11:04.

One of the youngest-ever soldiers to receive the George Medal

:11:05.:11:07.

for bravery after serving in Iraq has told this programme he feels

:11:08.:11:10.

abandoned by the army and is now effectively homeless and living

:11:11.:11:14.

Fusilier Daniel Smith was 20 when he risked his life twice

:11:15.:11:18.

in the space of a few days by trying to rescue colleagues who'd been

:11:19.:11:22.

As a result of what he saw in Iraq he now has Post-Traumatic Stress

:11:23.:11:27.

Disorder and says the support he's had from the armed

:11:28.:11:29.

I don't think there was much help, back then, because...

:11:30.:11:41.

Like now, PTSD is recognised now, but then it was not

:11:42.:11:45.

It was more like, pick yourself up and go.

:11:46.:11:53.

So you do what you do and complain while you're there.

:11:54.:12:00.

At the time I got blown up, I did not think it would affect me.

:12:01.:12:07.

It did not feel reality, at the time.

:12:08.:12:09.

A year later, it kind of sinks in, depression kicks in,

:12:10.:12:12.

you're drinking, and you don't realise you're changing,

:12:13.:12:14.

I haven't changed, you're the one that has

:12:15.:12:32.

The charity Combat Stress says it's seen a 28% increase in former

:12:33.:12:37.

members of the armed forces seeking mental-health support over

:12:38.:12:39.

the last year, that's treble what they saw the year before.

:12:40.:12:42.

Paul Fisher served in Afghanistan and was injured in an IED

:12:43.:12:46.

Zoe says, are used to treat in a homeless clinic, the amount of

:12:47.:13:00.

ex-soldiers was common. John says, I was injured in an IRA bombing and I

:13:01.:13:08.

still suffer. David says, it took 28 years for my disorder to be

:13:09.:13:12.

diagnosed, even with obvious signs, I ended up going off the rails.

:13:13.:13:14.

Paul Fisher served in Afghanistan and was injured in an IED

:13:15.:13:17.

He has Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder.

:13:18.:13:19.

Jay Wheeler served in the army for 15 years, including Afghanistan,

:13:20.:13:23.

where he saw his friend killed in a Taliban ambush.

:13:24.:13:26.

And Professor Neil Greenburg is a former MoD psychiatrist,

:13:27.:13:33.

who's now a specialist in PTSD at Kings College London.

:13:34.:13:48.

You 30, what would your experiences in the army and what happened? I

:13:49.:13:59.

served nine years, I joined in 2006, I went to Afghanistan after a long

:14:00.:14:04.

build-up. We were deployed in October 2000 and nine. The first

:14:05.:14:11.

incident for me was a blue on blue incident in our patrol base in

:14:12.:14:16.

December 2000 and nine. That is friendly fire? Yes, two Apaches. A

:14:17.:14:23.

big breakdown of communication, what they thought was the enemy was our

:14:24.:14:29.

patrol base, it injured 11 people and killed one in the space of a few

:14:30.:14:34.

minutes. Quite chaotic. And traumatic? How did you respond? You

:14:35.:14:40.

do what you need to do and crack on with the job. Above and beyond what

:14:41.:14:47.

they should have done. In a few weeks later, I got injured in an IED

:14:48.:14:54.

attack, and I got sent home. I spent ten days in Selly Oak with a

:14:55.:14:59.

shattered jaw and a back injury. A few months later, I started the PTSD

:15:00.:15:08.

symptoms, the anger, the low moods. I tried going back to work, for if

:15:09.:15:14.

you years, trying to crack on with my career and forget about it all.

:15:15.:15:18.

In denial more than anything. You say the symptoms were coming

:15:19.:15:27.

through. Had you been warned to look out for them? Did you know what was

:15:28.:15:30.

happening to you? Not at all, no. It is just looking back? Yeah, looking

:15:31.:15:34.

back you can see them now, but at the time, it is not something that

:15:35.:15:38.

was apparent to myself. It may have been to one or two people that

:15:39.:15:43.

didn't really mention it, but I think in the end it was my old

:15:44.:15:46.

company commander that noticed it and put me in touch with the medical

:15:47.:15:53.

officer. So what kind of support did you get then? I started receiving

:15:54.:15:58.

treatment from RAF Lucas at the department for community mental

:15:59.:16:04.

health. I weren't a big believer at first. I didn't sort of believe what

:16:05.:16:11.

was happening. I mean the CBT sessions... Cognitive behavioural

:16:12.:16:17.

therapy. It just seemed a lot of talking and lot a lot of action. It

:16:18.:16:22.

didn't seem like, I just felt I was just wasting time there. You are

:16:23.:16:29.

used to being active and this was about focussing on yourself?

:16:30.:16:32.

Focussing on my thoughts and things. I don't like people to think that

:16:33.:16:41.

there is something wrong or that I'm struggling so I found it quite hard

:16:42.:16:47.

to let it out that I was struggling. I think about ten appointments later

:16:48.:16:52.

I didn't really feel I wanted to carry on with that sort of

:16:53.:16:55.

treatment. It was only when I moved to Pontefract doing recruiting that

:16:56.:17:00.

I started seeking further treatment at Catterick which when I felt I

:17:01.:17:05.

really benefited support wise. And where you are today, how are you

:17:06.:17:10.

today? What is your life today? Just a househusband basically. A wife and

:17:11.:17:15.

two kids who adore. It is just nice to spend a lot of time with them. I

:17:16.:17:20.

am unemployed, but I am looking for work, but with the PTSD it is

:17:21.:17:26.

difficult. Is it through choice? It is struggling to find a job, not

:17:27.:17:30.

just any job, but a job that I can do without putting the added stress

:17:31.:17:36.

and flaring up the symptoms of PTSD. Jay, you served in the Army for 15

:17:37.:17:42.

years. You were diagnosed with most traumatic stress disorder after you

:17:43.:17:47.

saw a young man serving alongside you, a 21-year-old man killed. That

:17:48.:17:52.

turned out actually to be your last active tour of duty. Yes, it was.

:17:53.:17:58.

Tell us what happened. I did the 15 years. I did several tours in Kosovo

:17:59.:18:04.

and several tours in Iraq and I went out to Afghanistan in 2010,

:18:05.:18:13.

2009/2010. And Afghanistan, out of all the operational tours I had

:18:14.:18:20.

done, Afghanistan was the more... Chaotic. Sorry. Chaotic. There was a

:18:21.:18:27.

lot more going on. The Taliban was constantly engaging us on a daily

:18:28.:18:32.

basis with small arms fire and RPGs and nearly every day there was an

:18:33.:18:41.

IED going off. I have seen civilian people get killed and our own boys

:18:42.:18:48.

and girls and yeah, my friend Gunner Zac who was 21 and he lost his life

:18:49.:18:54.

out there and that was, I had never really experienced so much kind of

:18:55.:18:59.

hate and so much death in one place at one time. I came home from

:19:00.:19:09.

Afghanistan and within six months of being home, I started to become

:19:10.:19:14.

confrontational with people. I was very angry. I was feeling a lot of

:19:15.:19:20.

guilt as well. Guilt because you got to leave? I got to leave. I got to

:19:21.:19:24.

come back home, you know. Like Zac, he said goodbye to his family and

:19:25.:19:31.

that was it, you know. And the next time they saw him was when he came

:19:32.:19:37.

home in a coffin. So yeah, you know, I would be at home and I would be

:19:38.:19:41.

watching the news or something like that and every day it was like

:19:42.:19:48.

soldiers getting killed on a daily basis and it just frustrated me and

:19:49.:19:52.

I was getting angry and more upset with the Government and things like

:19:53.:19:56.

that and... You then effectively tried to shut yourself away from the

:19:57.:19:59.

world, didn't you? That's exactly what I did. I started living on the

:20:00.:20:04.

couch. I live on my own in an apartment in Liverpool. Started

:20:05.:20:08.

living on the couch. I started hoarding rubbish. And I'm not

:20:09.:20:14.

embarrassed to say at all, but I was hoarding rubbish and I was hoarding

:20:15.:20:20.

bottles of urine to this day I don't know why I was doing it, but I was

:20:21.:20:26.

living in a really, really bad way and literally eight months ago, I

:20:27.:20:32.

was burgled. Now, I got burgled and the police came and the police saw

:20:33.:20:40.

how I was living. They got in touch with military charity. And they got

:20:41.:20:45.

on board and came to see me and they have been supporting me ever since

:20:46.:20:48.

really. So that, the burglary turned out to be the first step towards you

:20:49.:20:53.

actually getting help? Yeah, most definitely. I kind of said, as a

:20:54.:20:57.

joke to the police, you know, when the guy had burgled my apartment, he

:20:58.:21:01.

could have at least taken some of the rubbish out of here, you know.

:21:02.:21:05.

But yeah, the turn around, the positive that came from it is very

:21:06.:21:12.

much needed. I mean, when I was, I had been diagnosed with PTSD and

:21:13.:21:19.

BPD, border line personality disorder and depression and when I

:21:20.:21:26.

was and I think I did a total of five suicide attempts because I had

:21:27.:21:29.

given up on myself and I had given up on life in general. What were you

:21:30.:21:34.

like before you went into the Army? I think I was a very upbeat guy and

:21:35.:21:41.

very physical. I loved my fitness and I loved interacting with people

:21:42.:21:46.

and the Army just enabled me to achieve a lot of good things in my

:21:47.:21:50.

life. I won several awards and come men tations and stuff and I really

:21:51.:21:54.

enjoyed -- commendations and stuff and I really enjoyed it, but it is

:21:55.:21:58.

when I came home and I went through the process of having a breakdown, I

:21:59.:22:04.

saw a lot of people leave my life who I thought were friends. They had

:22:05.:22:09.

gone and it just became a lonely, lonely place. And then I got

:22:10.:22:15.

admitted to my second psychiatric hospital and it was whilst I was in

:22:16.:22:21.

there in City Academy broadoak Unit in Liverpool, they encouraged me to

:22:22.:22:27.

take up art as therapy. And that made a big difference. Yes. I want

:22:28.:22:33.

to bring in a viewer who got in touch while watching us this

:22:34.:22:36.

morning. Charles, served in Afghanistan and was discharged in

:22:37.:22:42.

2013. He has got post post-traumatic stress disorder and he was crying

:22:43.:22:47.

when watching our interview earlier with Daniel Smith. Charles, thank

:22:48.:22:50.

you for getting in touch. What you saw obviously with Daniel, what

:22:51.:22:53.

Daniel was saying hit home with you. Tell us why? Actually the story of

:22:54.:23:02.

Daniel just, it hit me so hard because putting myself in Daniel's

:23:03.:23:09.

situation, it is very, very hard for some of us, you know. Having been

:23:10.:23:16.

diagnosed for PTSD and you left the Army. The Army is willing to let you

:23:17.:23:21.

go and there is no support, you know, and you feel the sense you

:23:22.:23:25.

become so angry with the Government because like there is a lot of

:23:26.:23:33.

things I that could have been done for so many of us. Daniel is

:23:34.:23:37.

sleeping in his car, it shouldn't happened. He sacrificed a lot for

:23:38.:23:45.

the country and even getting an ache is now sleeping in his car and it is

:23:46.:23:50.

something that shouldn't have happened. I was discharged in 2013

:23:51.:23:58.

for having PTSD and last year I went to the Combat Stress at Leatherhead,

:23:59.:24:06.

I was there for two weeks and I was expected to go in this year around

:24:07.:24:12.

June for another six weeks intensive, you know. So it is very,

:24:13.:24:16.

very difficult and I think that it is high time some of us come

:24:17.:24:22.

together and we sort of get this sort of these things that are

:24:23.:24:25.

happening in places in America where we have a Government department

:24:26.:24:28.

which deals with issues with veterans. So I think it would be

:24:29.:24:32.

well appreciated if a lot of things can be done for us that are

:24:33.:24:36.

suffering from PTSD because it is a serious issue that needs to be, you

:24:37.:24:40.

know, that needs proper looking into. Tell us what happened to you,

:24:41.:24:46.

Charles? What led to the post-traumatic stress disorder?

:24:47.:24:59.

Basically with my post traumatic stress disorder. I was an undercover

:25:00.:25:05.

soldier for Catterick. I passed out from training. I went through a lot

:25:06.:25:12.

in Catterick for that undercover soldier in 2008. I went on and I

:25:13.:25:21.

joined my unit at Chepstow in Wales and then from there I deployed to

:25:22.:25:25.

Afghanistan, you know, so the whole thing was just there and the very

:25:26.:25:28.

week that I got to Afghanistan, because I was based in Sangin, the

:25:29.:25:37.

very week I got there, I experienced this explosion on the patrol and a

:25:38.:25:46.

whole lot of things. Sangin was riddled with IEDs and all sorts of

:25:47.:25:49.

things. When we came back from the tour in 2009, I started discovering

:25:50.:25:57.

changes in my life which were taking into alcohol and I became

:25:58.:26:01.

aggressive, you know. So those were the things that happened to me. I

:26:02.:26:05.

want to bring, thank you Charles, I want to bring in Professor Neil

:26:06.:26:15.

Greenberg. Neil, these three men and Daniel who we heard from earlier,

:26:16.:26:20.

are these pretty typical stories? Good morning. So I think that it is

:26:21.:26:26.

definitely true that the sort of stories that you've shown on the

:26:27.:26:30.

show this morning are generally quite typical. I think that one of

:26:31.:26:34.

the biggest challenges and all the speakers have mentioned is the

:26:35.:26:37.

actual going to get help in the first place. So we know that in the

:26:38.:26:42.

Armed Forces for people who are still serving, somewhere between

:26:43.:26:47.

four and 7% of military personnel are likely to suffer with PTSD and

:26:48.:26:52.

that figure probably rises somewhere between 7% and 13% for people who

:26:53.:26:57.

have left the Armed Forces. The biggest challenge is once you have

:26:58.:27:00.

left, is where you go and get help? And I guess one of the things that

:27:01.:27:04.

saddens me quite a bit that I've heard from the stories is that

:27:05.:27:07.

whilst I agree it is not always easy to get help, there is an awful lot

:27:08.:27:15.

of help out there. One of the speakers mentioned Combat Stress, it

:27:16.:27:19.

provides care and support and treatment for people suffering from

:27:20.:27:21.

mental health problems who are suffering in the military, but there

:27:22.:27:24.

is a range of other charities and the National Health Service. So

:27:25.:27:29.

certainly within England and similarly excellent projects in

:27:30.:27:35.

Scotland and Wales, the NHS have set-up veterans' services that aim

:27:36.:27:39.

to appeal to veterans so people in the NHS services speak the same sort

:27:40.:27:43.

of language. They understand what military personnel go through and

:27:44.:27:46.

they can provide a range of treatments and refer people on.

:27:47.:27:51.

Clearly, sorry, clearly, there are men out there who do feel abandoned

:27:52.:27:55.

because they are finding it very difficult to pick up the piece of

:27:56.:27:59.

their lives having served and are finding it very difficult to go on

:28:00.:28:03.

in some cases, thinking that they can't actually see a future. What

:28:04.:28:07.

can be done to help them? Well, I think probably the most important

:28:08.:28:11.

thing and this programme is part of it is encouraging them to take the

:28:12.:28:14.

first step to go and get some help. Whilst it is not always easy to get

:28:15.:28:18.

an appointment with your GP, go and sit down with your GP. You are

:28:19.:28:22.

entitled to a GP to listen to what has gone on. Should the MoD play

:28:23.:28:27.

more of a role? Because once they leave the MoD then the

:28:28.:28:31.

responsibility for care switches elsewhere, do you think that that is

:28:32.:28:35.

something that could be looked at? Well, I think one of the

:28:36.:28:38.

difficulties there and I agree obviously the MoD in some senses

:28:39.:28:41.

caused the problems so it is easy to say they should try and fix it, but

:28:42.:28:46.

the whole of the MoD's mental health services are aimed towards getting

:28:47.:28:51.

people ready to go on operations. The treatments they provide are ones

:28:52.:28:55.

that are aiming to get you fit so you can go and deploy again

:28:56.:28:57.

somewhere. Many of the people that you've interviewed today talk about

:28:58.:29:00.

having a much more long-standing problem. These people are never

:29:01.:29:04.

going to be able to stay within military service because they are

:29:05.:29:07.

not going to be able to get fit enough to go back out to Iraq or

:29:08.:29:11.

Afghanistan or similar places. So the MoD's treatments are really all

:29:12.:29:15.

aimed towards getting you well. The charities and the National Health

:29:16.:29:18.

Service understand that some people don't get better. At least, not to

:29:19.:29:23.

the state that they are ready to deploy operationally again and so

:29:24.:29:26.

the care that they provide and there is lots of charities like Walking

:29:27.:29:32.

With The Wounded and Combat Stress and the National Health Service and

:29:33.:29:35.

many others, all aim to provide people with care that gets them well

:29:36.:29:38.

so they can have a good civilian life. And I think the MoD, whilst it

:29:39.:29:43.

is nice to think they should provide the treatment, that's not their

:29:44.:29:47.

primary expertise. Their expertise is getting people fit enough to

:29:48.:29:52.

deploy again. Thank you very much. Thanks to all of you for joining us.

:29:53.:29:59.

Graham tweeted, "Talking about post-traumatic stress disorder,

:30:00.:30:02.

brilliant about time." Another viewer says, "Great segment on

:30:03.:30:07.

post-traumatic stress disorder. Brave of them to speak out." Sharon

:30:08.:30:13.

says, "The MoD must take full responsibility for resettlement of

:30:14.:30:16.

military personnel and they must be given priority for health and

:30:17.:30:18.

housing." An MoD spokesperson told us

:30:19.:30:22.

that it couldn't comment on individual cases,

:30:23.:30:24.

but it said, "We provide a wide range of support both

:30:25.:30:27.

during and after military service, including the Career

:30:28.:30:29.

Transition Partnership scheme, which helps individuals transition

:30:30.:30:30.

into civilian life. Veterans are eligible

:30:31.:30:32.

for resettlement support and priority NHS treatment

:30:33.:30:34.

for conditions linked Still to come, the Government

:30:35.:30:35.

needs to save money, Victims of the hacking scandal

:30:36.:30:50.

claimed the Prime Minister has broken their promises. We asked one

:30:51.:30:52.

man why he feels let down. The Government needs to save money,

:30:53.:31:01.

so where should the axe fall? Foreign aid along with health

:31:02.:31:04.

and defence are protected from cuts, With the news, here's Maxine

:31:05.:31:07.

in the BBC Newsroom. Junior doctors in England have begun

:31:08.:31:16.

another 48-hour strike, their fourth walkout

:31:17.:31:19.

in their long-running Although 5,000 operations

:31:20.:31:21.

have been cancelled, The Government says

:31:22.:31:29.

the action is irresponsible The Business Secretary Sajid Javid

:31:30.:31:32.

is calling for a responsible sales process of the steelworks

:31:33.:31:39.

in Port Talbot as he arrives in Mumbai to meet

:31:40.:31:41.

the boss of Tata Steel. It's thought Tata wants

:31:42.:31:48.

to sell its loss-making plants Mr Javid is expected to press

:31:49.:31:50.

the Tata chairman for reassurances The Chancellor says the Government

:31:51.:32:03.

is doing all it can to help. It is a difficult situation for the

:32:04.:32:08.

and their families, that is why we are doing everything we can to help

:32:09.:32:12.

that business in South Wales and steel mills across the country, that

:32:13.:32:16.

is why the Business Secretary has gone to India to talk to the

:32:17.:32:20.

management of Tata to make sure there is a long-term future for this

:32:21.:32:28.

vital industry. What is the most that we can expect

:32:29.:32:29.

to get from today's meetings? I am standing in front of the

:32:30.:32:43.

building, the headquarters of the Tata group, where the meeting will

:32:44.:32:50.

be held. I have spoken to Tata, they have sent out an assurance that the

:32:51.:32:53.

process of the sale will be transparent and thorough. The

:32:54.:32:57.

Business Secretary will hope for an agreement that whatever deal it

:32:58.:33:01.

strikes to sell off its UK operations, it will not result in

:33:02.:33:06.

mass job losses. Tata employs 15,000 workers in the UK. Tata have said it

:33:07.:33:13.

is not about how good or bad deal is, for them what is essential is to

:33:14.:33:19.

cut the financial losses of their steel operations in the UK. They

:33:20.:33:23.

have suffered losses of ?1 million every day for the last year. They

:33:24.:33:29.

want this process to happen quickly, although they have not set a time

:33:30.:33:34.

frame. I suspect one of the things that the Business Secretary will

:33:35.:33:38.

want to know is how long Tata can afford to continue its operations

:33:39.:33:43.

while we wait to find a buyer. Yesterday, the Business Secretary

:33:44.:33:47.

met with union leaders, they have sent a message for the Tata

:33:48.:33:53.

chairman, they expect the sale to be responsible. He also met with a

:33:54.:33:57.

potential buyer, the Chief Executive of a commodities firm, he says he

:33:58.:34:02.

things he might be interested in buying the steel business in the UK.

:34:03.:34:05.

Whatever discussions he had yesterday, that will be one of the

:34:06.:34:10.

things that they are likely to discuss in the meeting held here

:34:11.:34:11.

today. Donald Trump's campaign has been

:34:12.:34:22.

dealt a blow after losing a vote in the key American state of Wisconsin.

:34:23.:34:27.

His main rival Ted Cruz easily won, making it harder for the businessmen

:34:28.:34:31.

to win the Republican race and quite. Concert the party's

:34:32.:34:34.

leadership was trying to steal the nomination from him.

:34:35.:34:40.

Iceland's Government has suggested it could seek early elections a day

:34:41.:34:43.

after the Prime Minister stepped aside. His involvement with an

:34:44.:34:49.

offshore company was revealed by the Panama papers. He has done I'd that

:34:50.:34:54.

he has resigned, he says he has handed over to his deputy for an

:34:55.:34:55.

unspecified period. Join me for BBC

:34:56.:34:57.

Newsroom live at 11am. Jessica's here with the sport now,

:34:58.:35:01.

and more on Rangers' return Rangers are back in the top flight

:35:02.:35:04.

of Scottish football Our Scottish football reporter

:35:05.:35:11.

Chris McLaughlin joins me now, and can explain a bit more

:35:12.:35:16.

about their remarkable journey. It has been an incredible journey.

:35:17.:35:30.

An incredible four years. In 2012, after years of mismanagement, one of

:35:31.:35:35.

British football's biggest clubs faced financial meltdown,

:35:36.:35:41.

administration led to liquidation, a new club was formed, a new company

:35:42.:35:46.

was formed to take the club forward, the Scottish footballing authorities

:35:47.:35:49.

forced them to start life again in the bottom of Scottish football.

:35:50.:35:52.

They have been slowly working their way up since 2012, we have had

:35:53.:35:59.

boardroom battles behind the scenes, courtroom battles, which are still

:36:00.:36:02.

ongoing, but last night that came to a climax, because they have secured

:36:03.:36:07.

their place back in the top flight of Scottish football. The Big

:36:08.:36:12.

Questions now is, when the party dies down, can they compete with

:36:13.:36:18.

Celtic next season? The fans hope so, the players are determined that

:36:19.:36:21.

they want to challenge for honours next season. We'll get a taste of

:36:22.:36:26.

it, because Rangers play Celtic at Hampden Park in the cup a week on

:36:27.:36:33.

Sunday. The old firm derby is back. That is

:36:34.:36:36.

all be sport for this morning. Let's talk to Stephen Kinnock about

:36:37.:36:56.

Tata. A potential buyer is stepping into the frame, how are you feeling

:36:57.:37:03.

about the situation? The proposals are very interesting, but I also

:37:04.:37:06.

think it is important that we don't jump in. The Government is in a

:37:07.:37:12.

total shambles over this. The risk is there will be a panic and they

:37:13.:37:15.

will want to go with the first buyer that comes. There is another

:37:16.:37:19.

interesting opportunity which could be a management buyout. If the right

:37:20.:37:25.

financial backing can be found, that is worth looking at as well. But I

:37:26.:37:30.

will be meeting with Mr Gupta soon, and I am looking forward to hearing

:37:31.:37:36.

his proposal. How much time is there to play with? Tata have not been

:37:37.:37:39.

clear on how long they are prepared to give this, it is costing them

:37:40.:37:44.

money everyday. It is great that the Business Secretary has found his way

:37:45.:37:48.

to Mumbai. What he needs to come home with its clarity from Tata as

:37:49.:37:52.

to how long they see this process taking. We need the Government to

:37:53.:37:58.

give as much support as they can, to give the process as much time as

:37:59.:38:02.

possible. We have to have a realistic time frame. You have been

:38:03.:38:07.

to Mumbai, you have had talks, you could not get a straight answer? We

:38:08.:38:13.

went out to try to get them to back the turnaround plan. It became

:38:14.:38:17.

obvious they were not going to do that. What we pushed for was clarity

:38:18.:38:23.

on how long it would take. They said it depends on the kind of support

:38:24.:38:27.

they get from the Government. The ball is in the Government's court,

:38:28.:38:30.

they have been asleep on the wheel for the last four or five years,

:38:31.:38:35.

they finally seem to be waking up, let's hope it is not too late.

:38:36.:38:41.

Victims of press intrusion have accused David Cameron

:38:42.:38:42.

In a letter to the Prime Minister, campaigners say that the failure

:38:43.:38:46.

to implement a key part of the Royal Charter agreed after

:38:47.:38:49.

the Leveson Inquiry is a betrayal of the public and Parliament.

:38:50.:38:52.

Gerry McCann, the father of missing Madeline McCann,

:38:53.:38:54.

is one of the signatories to the letter.

:38:55.:38:59.

We don't see any front-page apologies for people

:39:00.:39:03.

who have had stories misrepresented, or libel.

:39:04.:39:09.

Supposedly Ipso have teeth, but they don't use them.

:39:10.:39:12.

We really need proper independent self-regulation.

:39:13.:39:19.

And if proper independent self-regulation doesn't come

:39:20.:39:22.

into force, Leveson was also clear than what we should be moving

:39:23.:39:33.

Personally, I have made this clear in the past, Leveson's

:39:34.:39:37.

recommendations were the minimum I would be happy with.

:39:38.:39:39.

And if they aren't met, then it has been a waste of time and money,

:39:40.:39:42.

many victims have put themselves through the mill to go

:39:43.:39:47.

and give evidence at that inquiry all over again.

:39:48.:39:49.

A survivor of the 7/7 London bombings, Paul Dadge,

:39:50.:39:52.

Do you feel let down? Absolutely. We have been let down. I have been

:39:53.:40:07.

involved in this campaign for as long as he has. We have been made

:40:08.:40:13.

numerous promises, and they have not been kept. What do you want to

:40:14.:40:20.

happen that has not happened? There are two things, that the cost

:40:21.:40:26.

incentives that were agreed our port into force, which would allow access

:40:27.:40:29.

to justice for members of the public. Members of the public who do

:40:30.:40:35.

not have the money to take newspapers to court. It is important

:40:36.:40:39.

to state that this has been brought into place because newspapers have

:40:40.:40:42.

not joined a Leveson Report line regulator. If they had, they would

:40:43.:40:48.

not have been forced down this element of cost incentives. Ipso say

:40:49.:41:00.

they have more powers than the commission, they say there is a

:41:01.:41:04.

chairman of unimpeachable independence, a board and a

:41:05.:41:09.

committee with a lay majority and a faster complaints process that has

:41:10.:41:12.

resulted in eight front-page corrections in the last year, which

:41:13.:41:15.

was unheard of under the previous regime. As has just been said, the

:41:16.:41:22.

direction of apologies is something that is not in place. We are not

:41:23.:41:29.

seeing complaints and apologies getting the forefront that they

:41:30.:41:33.

deserve. I went to the offices of Ipso the day it launched, which was

:41:34.:41:37.

in the offices of the PCC, with the blue tacked Ipso signed up over the

:41:38.:41:45.

PCC, which is quite telling. Tell us the impact of the hacking on you,

:41:46.:41:48.

because you have got heavily involved in everything since then.

:41:49.:41:54.

What impact did it have on you? I was always somebody that would talk

:41:55.:42:02.

to the press in the aftermath of Tata, and I felt I had lost control

:42:03.:42:05.

of the information I was giving. There was pressure put on myself as

:42:06.:42:11.

well as the video, in a photograph with me, to talk to the press. I was

:42:12.:42:16.

once strolled that journalists would be fired unless they were able to

:42:17.:42:19.

set up a meeting between me and her. I think that was true, and

:42:20.:42:23.

journalists are under pressure to deliver stories. For me, that put me

:42:24.:42:29.

under emotional stress. When the phone hacking came to fruition, I

:42:30.:42:34.

felt I had lost control of the information I was giving to the

:42:35.:42:35.

press. David Cameron has further clarified

:42:36.:42:45.

his position on his tax affairs. A fourth statement by David

:42:46.:42:58.

Cameron's team. If you remember dressing down on a balloon and

:42:59.:43:02.

another bit would bulge, that is what seems to be happening as number

:43:03.:43:08.

ten try to grip this story. You wind back 24 hours, the word from number

:43:09.:43:12.

ten was, this is a private matter. In the afternoon, we had David

:43:13.:43:18.

Cameron say, I don't benefit from any offshore funds or investment,

:43:19.:43:22.

and everybody thought, what about your family? In the evening, there

:43:23.:43:26.

was another statement to say that neither Mr Cameron nor Samantha

:43:27.:43:31.

Cameron nor the children benefited from offshore funds. Overnight,

:43:32.:43:35.

everybody thought, what about in the future or in the past? So, Downing

:43:36.:43:40.

Street have issued a fourth statement. They say, there are no

:43:41.:43:43.

offshore trusts or funds... The critical bit is in the future.

:43:44.:43:57.

What they don't address and have not addressed so far is, what about the

:43:58.:44:04.

past? Have the family in any way benefited from his late father's

:44:05.:44:10.

investment fund? The questions are spreading. George Osborne was

:44:11.:44:13.

challenged whether he had benefited from an offshore fund.

:44:14.:44:24.

We are having a technical gremlin. He took a body swerve, he did not

:44:25.:44:32.

really addressed the question beyond saying that all his financial

:44:33.:44:35.

arrangements were in the register of members' interest, he was asked

:44:36.:44:41.

again, and he got out of screen pretty quickly. Number ten are

:44:42.:44:45.

deeply wounded by this, and they want to close it down as quickly as

:44:46.:44:51.

possible, because having pictures of the PM in the papers alongside

:44:52.:44:54.

pictures of wealthy tax avoidance, the likes of President Assad,

:44:55.:45:00.

Vladimir Putin, that is absolutely not what they want. But I am afraid

:45:01.:45:04.

the questions still keep coming. The instant messaging service

:45:05.:45:12.

Whatsapp says it will now encrypt all communication made on the app

:45:13.:45:14.

in a bid to keep messages private. It follows a row over an encrypted

:45:15.:45:17.

iPhone between Apple and the FBI. Technology reporter Chris Foxx

:45:18.:45:20.

is here to explain more. Tell us more about why whales app

:45:21.:45:31.

will be doing this? They are saying they are doing this to give people

:45:32.:45:39.

their privacy. This is called enter ending encryption. Let me show a

:45:40.:45:42.

diagram of how this works. You have your message on your computer or

:45:43.:45:46.

your phone, but it travels across the internet. It can go through

:45:47.:45:51.

various hands, your internet service provider, the message service, like

:45:52.:45:58.

whatsapp and it could be intercepted as it goes to your recipient. As

:45:59.:46:04.

soon as a message leaves your phone, it is scramble and it isn't

:46:05.:46:08.

descripted until it receives at the other end. So no one is intercept it

:46:09.:46:21.

and if they do, they will get a load of nonsense. Why are they doing

:46:22.:46:29.

this? The leak by Edward Snowden showed how much Government agencies

:46:30.:46:34.

were spying on what people do. With end to end encryption they don't do

:46:35.:46:38.

that. They can't log every message you isn't because it is scrambled

:46:39.:46:44.

along the way. People who advocate for privacy say it is a great thing.

:46:45.:46:48.

There is the risk if someone can unlock your phone, they can read

:46:49.:46:51.

your messages and that's what happened in the FBI and Apple case.

:46:52.:46:55.

The FBI have managed to unlock that particular iPhone so they can read

:46:56.:46:59.

the messages that are on there. If whatsapp is doing this, how many

:47:00.:47:05.

other unencrypted services that might decide the same? Text

:47:06.:47:10.

messaging is unencrypted, but there are other messaging apps, more niche

:47:11.:47:15.

apps, whatsapp has one billion users. There are things like

:47:16.:47:19.

Telegram which has been used by Islamic State to exchange messages.

:47:20.:47:24.

That's already encrypted and BlackBerry messenger has an version

:47:25.:47:27.

that's encrypted and people are steering towards this now that all

:47:28.:47:32.

communications will be and on whatsapp, voice calls and picture

:47:33.:47:35.

messages, all is scrambled until it gets to the other end. Interesting,

:47:36.:47:37.

thank you very much, Chris. This morning you've been telling us

:47:38.:47:43.

what you think about the amount Andrew e-mailed to say, "It seems

:47:44.:47:56.

perverse that we are spending millions of pound of aid to India

:47:57.:48:00.

when they are a country with a nuclear and a space programme, but

:48:01.:48:07.

an Indian owned charity is threatening thousands of UK mostly

:48:08.:48:12.

Welsh jobs. Spend the money on Welsh charities instead." Ken says, "It is

:48:13.:48:16.

obscene the UK is spending ?12 billion on overseas aid particularly

:48:17.:48:19.

when the state of the UK is hovering on becoming a third world country.

:48:20.:48:25.

There is an odd adage about such funds being sent to such a country

:48:26.:48:29.

for education, when the sum arrived at the department, there was barely

:48:30.:48:32.

enough to purchase a packet of pencils. Many people would have no

:48:33.:48:37.

problem believing this, even though it is without qualification." Carol

:48:38.:48:43.

says, "Foreign aid should be cut and put to use at home. It is heart

:48:44.:48:48.

wrenching to hear stories like Daniel's and know that he is one of

:48:49.:48:53.

our many ex-servicemen not being looked after." "Another viewer says,

:48:54.:48:58.

"Humans lives are more important than money. If it is, we must stop.

:48:59.:49:02.

." Many charities, like Oxfam,

:49:03.:49:05.

who received ?45 million in foreign aid, say they couldn't do their work

:49:06.:49:07.

without that money. So what kind of projects

:49:08.:49:10.

does it get spent on? Thank you for coming in. ?45 million

:49:11.:49:19.

from the Government for Oxfam. Spent on what? We spend it in a number of

:49:20.:49:23.

different countries in a number of different ways. Let me tell you

:49:24.:49:27.

about three different countries where we spend it. The first country

:49:28.:49:34.

is in Syria where there is a much publicised conflict. Oxfam is

:49:35.:49:38.

working inside Syria where half the population are in need of

:49:39.:49:41.

humanitarian assistance and what we do is we are working there to

:49:42.:49:44.

provide 1.5 million people with access to clean water and

:49:45.:49:47.

sanitation. It is really important work that we're doing there. In West

:49:48.:49:53.

Africa, during the Ebola crisis, we helped 1.3 million people again with

:49:54.:49:56.

money from the British Government and we helped people before the

:49:57.:50:00.

crisis in terms of before as it was building in terms of understanding

:50:01.:50:05.

about healthcare, hygiene, but also access again to clean water and

:50:06.:50:09.

sanitation. But we are still there now. So carry on putting out public

:50:10.:50:15.

messaging and helping people understand how important clean water

:50:16.:50:18.

and sanitation is and the third country is a forgotten emergency in

:50:19.:50:24.

the Democratic Republic of Congo, we are working with 1.5 million people

:50:25.:50:27.

and there are a lot of people who are not able to return home

:50:28.:50:29.

following the conflict there and they are at risk of violence and

:50:30.:50:35.

theft and rape and we help them deal with road blocks and we are

:50:36.:50:40.

providing clean water. What do you say to people who say charity should

:50:41.:50:44.

begin at home? I think it is a false choice. The Panama Papers have shown

:50:45.:50:49.

there is money that is there, but it is being secreted away in tax

:50:50.:50:54.

havens. So the UK, we should be so proud of our aid money. We do

:50:55.:50:58.

amazing and remarkable things on a daily basis. It saves lives. It

:50:59.:51:02.

helps countries get ready for disasters when they are coming. It

:51:03.:51:06.

helps countries deal with disasters and we help countries deal with them

:51:07.:51:11.

in the aftermath the earthquake in Nepal is a good point. Why should

:51:12.:51:17.

foreign aid be ring-fenced? It is important we ring-fence that money

:51:18.:51:20.

because it is what countries need in order to plan. At Oxfam, we are

:51:21.:51:24.

really grateful to the British Government for the support we

:51:25.:51:28.

receive, but we still have to make choices about where we can deploy

:51:29.:51:31.

our resources because we can't be everywhere. We have real

:51:32.:51:34.

conversations when emergencies happen about where do we put our

:51:35.:51:38.

resources? Where do we put our clean water provision? How do we manage

:51:39.:51:42.

that. Sally, thank you. Listening to you a panel of viewers. We can talk

:51:43.:51:54.

to Kema Allen and David who is retired and thinks foreign aid is a

:51:55.:51:59.

vanity project, Joe supports foreign aid, but thinks more can be spent at

:52:00.:52:06.

home. Marina says the UK has an obligation to help poorer countries.

:52:07.:52:11.

David Thomas is retired. He thinks we can't afford to invest so much in

:52:12.:52:16.

aid. Thank you very much for joining us. Let me start with you Kema, you

:52:17.:52:23.

work in HR, and think foreign aid is vital. Why? Well, I think if we look

:52:24.:52:29.

at what the British Government and the foreign aid has done to a number

:52:30.:52:35.

of countries overseas in terms of helping humanitarian aid and

:52:36.:52:39.

emergency aid, I think we have done a lot for a lot of countries who

:52:40.:52:46.

desperately need the support and who really rely on the United Kingdom

:52:47.:52:49.

and the British Government for their support. So I it would be a shame

:52:50.:52:55.

for us to pull that away especially as we take a lead well, among the

:52:56.:53:00.

other G7 countries to ensure that we are pushing and to lead the way in

:53:01.:53:05.

that and I think we are taking a stand and I think we should carry on

:53:06.:53:08.

doing that. David, you think it is a vanity project? Well, when it comes

:53:09.:53:14.

to David Cameron and George Osborne, yes. It is part of there we are all

:53:15.:53:20.

in it together, Big Society, but there is so much corruption with the

:53:21.:53:24.

foreign aid, you take Pakistan, they are getting it for schools. The guy

:53:25.:53:29.

who is getting the money is claiming for nine schools that don't exist.

:53:30.:53:36.

On that, the Department for International Development says there

:53:37.:53:41.

have been claims in newspapers things misrepresented and actually

:53:42.:53:44.

everything is subject to rigorous interm and external checks and

:53:45.:53:48.

scrutiny at all stages. There have been incidents where there have been

:53:49.:53:51.

problems. If you could be guaranteed all the money was spent correctly,

:53:52.:53:56.

would you be happy to see the money ring-fenced? Not ring-fenced, no. I

:53:57.:54:03.

think we should target the aid we give and make sure it has been spent

:54:04.:54:07.

correctly. Now, if we need less money, that's fine. If we need more

:54:08.:54:12.

money, OK, we put more money in. Joe, a student who supports foreign

:54:13.:54:15.

aid, but thinks more could be spent at home. What do you think about the

:54:16.:54:18.

balance right now then? There are serious issues. There is a housing

:54:19.:54:21.

crisis, there is foodbanks being used. There is low wages and

:54:22.:54:24.

zero-hours contracts, there is serious issues that need to be

:54:25.:54:28.

addressed in the country, but there doesn't have to be addressed by

:54:29.:54:32.

taking money away from the poorest people in the world. That's a false

:54:33.:54:36.

choice and it is them versus us or narrative that's been spread a lot

:54:37.:54:40.

at the moment with the Ukip and the EU referendum. There is a sort of

:54:41.:54:43.

idea that our problems are caused by things overseas and if we brought

:54:44.:54:47.

them back, we would have more control over the borders or we can

:54:48.:54:50.

have more control over our money and I think it is a false choice. What

:54:51.:54:53.

do you think about the foreign aid budget? I think The Mail on Sunday

:54:54.:54:58.

has done a good job by highlighting where it has gone wrong and I do

:54:59.:55:07.

also think that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. The

:55:08.:55:11.

money reaches the people who actually need it. So I am in favour

:55:12.:55:18.

of foreign aid. If we start cutting now, the pressure will never stop.

:55:19.:55:23.

Going back to what you were saying about, as I mentioned before, the

:55:24.:55:27.

Department for International Development says not all the stories

:55:28.:55:31.

that are out there are completely accurate and in terms of the money

:55:32.:55:36.

that is being spent, it is scrutinised, would you happy if you

:55:37.:55:39.

felt there was proper scrutiny? The problem is, it is scrutinised this

:55:40.:55:43.

end, but we cannot really control if you give the money to the Pakistani

:55:44.:55:48.

Government or elsewhere, we control it this side, but we don't

:55:49.:55:53.

necessarily control it their end so yes, I mean, I do support foreign

:55:54.:55:59.

aid and I support the 0.7% target as well because I said if we cut it

:56:00.:56:04.

now, the pressure will never stop there will be more and more attempts

:56:05.:56:08.

to cut it. I do think, I understand there is a pressure now on the

:56:09.:56:13.

budget. We need to make sure that, you know, issues like Tata Steel and

:56:14.:56:18.

other issues, the NHS, we need to spend money here too, but the money

:56:19.:56:24.

can be raised elsewhere. For example, we can raise money

:56:25.:56:28.

elsewhere. David Thomas, what do you think, David? Well, my personal view

:56:29.:56:36.

is that there is ?16 billion I've read was put into foreign aid last

:56:37.:56:41.

year. ?12.2 billion is the figure, yes. Is a that the exact figure, it

:56:42.:56:48.

is only what I read. Now, there is, the Health Service is in trouble up

:56:49.:56:53.

to ?15 billion a year. We have people still in all over England who

:56:54.:56:57.

were in the floods, who are still suffering and they are trying to get

:56:58.:57:01.

their act together. They are getting no help at all whatsoever. We have

:57:02.:57:05.

all these charities who raise billions and billions of pounds, why

:57:06.:57:09.

do we not use the charity? The people who use the money should be

:57:10.:57:13.

given it. The British Government is running a deficit. So if you're

:57:14.:57:16.

running a deficit, why do you borrow money to give away? It doesn't make

:57:17.:57:21.

sense. Phil Taylor joining us now as well. What's your prospective? You

:57:22.:57:26.

have launched a petition, I think, calling for the foreign aid budget

:57:27.:57:29.

to be cut? I have in actual fact, yes. There is a lot of

:57:30.:57:35.

misconceptions about us being a rich country. Greece has ?300 billion, we

:57:36.:57:41.

are in debt for five times that amount of money. It does make things

:57:42.:57:45.

difficult from that point of view. The best solution would be to make

:57:46.:57:50.

camps happy, cut the ?12 billion aid in half, ?6 billion to stay in the

:57:51.:57:54.

UK, ?6 billion for overseas aid, but all to be accountable. We have

:57:55.:57:57.

rattled through hearing from all of you with your views on it. Thank you

:57:58.:58:02.

very much all of you for joining us with your thoughts on that and thank

:58:03.:58:05.

you at home as well for joining us on the programme today with your

:58:06.:58:09.

thoughts and your company. On the programme tomorrow, we'll bring you

:58:10.:58:13.

latest in interviews with London's mayoral candidates. You can see

:58:14.:58:17.

Newsroom Live is coming up next. Thank you very much forryard company

:58:18.:58:22.

today. Have a lovely day and I will see you at the same time tomorrow.

:58:23.:58:23.

Bye-bye.

:58:24.:58:31.

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