Browse content similar to 12/04/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
I'm Victoria Derbyshire, welcome to the programme. | :00:10. | :00:11. | |
This morning, we bring you rare access to a suburb in Leeds | :00:12. | :00:14. | |
which has become the first place in the UK where it's permitted | :00:15. | :00:17. | |
for women to sell sex between certain hours. | :00:18. | :00:27. | |
Obviously, you don't know what type of manual going to get next. It may | :00:28. | :00:36. | |
look all right, but they be nasty. You take a gamble with yourself, at | :00:37. | :00:44. | |
the end of the day. Life or death, isn't it? | :00:45. | :00:46. | |
But businesses say it's damaging their trade. | :00:47. | :00:48. | |
I don't disagree with any scheme in principle | :00:49. | :00:49. | |
which supports the safeguarding of vulnerable people. | :00:50. | :00:51. | |
Street sex workers are clearly extremely vulnerable people. | :00:52. | :00:54. | |
But I don't agree with the manner in which the council and police have | :00:55. | :00:57. | |
gone about it because it has forced the problem onto us. | :00:58. | :01:02. | |
We'll bring you our full report in the next 15 minutes. | :01:03. | :01:07. | |
Plus our top story today - has an age of greater transparency | :01:08. | :01:10. | |
arrived when it comes to the tax affairs of politicians? | :01:11. | :01:13. | |
Downing Street has accused the media of fuelling a frenzy over the | :01:14. | :01:19. | |
controversy about David Cameron's tax affairs? We will talk to a group | :01:20. | :01:26. | |
of voters after 10am. Do you want to see elected politicians' tax returns | :01:27. | :01:29. | |
published, and what after that? And what's the point of an England | :01:30. | :01:33. | |
and Wales only injunction which prevents the naming | :01:34. | :01:35. | |
of a married celebrity who had a threesome, when you can find | :01:36. | :01:38. | |
that name pretty much anywhere on social media - | :01:39. | :01:40. | |
or in Scotland or the States? The identities have been published | :01:41. | :01:48. | |
in a major publication in America, it has been published in Australia, | :01:49. | :01:53. | |
Canada, New Zealand, probably elsewhere. Scotland, a political | :01:54. | :01:59. | |
blog. In this day and age of social media, I think it is a nonsense, it | :02:00. | :02:02. | |
makes the law look foolish. Welcome to the programme, | :02:03. | :02:10. | |
we're live on BBC Two and the BBC As always, this morning we'll bring | :02:11. | :02:13. | |
you the latest breaking news and developing stories - | :02:14. | :02:17. | |
and we really want you to get in touch on all the stories we're | :02:18. | :02:20. | |
talking about this morning, If you text, you will be charged | :02:21. | :02:22. | |
at the standard network rate. And, don't forget, if you've | :02:23. | :02:26. | |
got a story you think we should be covering, | :02:27. | :02:29. | |
do send it to us. Some of our best stories come | :02:30. | :02:31. | |
from you, our viewers. Our top story today, | :02:32. | :02:33. | |
Downing Street has accused the media of fuelling a frenzy over | :02:34. | :02:36. | |
the controversy surrounding Sources at Number Ten admit that | :02:37. | :02:38. | |
mistakes were made over the handling of the row - | :02:39. | :02:42. | |
but have criticised the media for misreporting the Prime | :02:43. | :02:45. | |
Minister's tax arrangements. With us now is our political guru | :02:46. | :02:48. | |
Norman Smith in Downing Street. Give us more detail of what they are | :02:49. | :03:03. | |
saying? This will be the first Cabinet meeting since the tax row | :03:04. | :03:08. | |
blew up. Ministers will be arriving here, but already you get a sense of | :03:09. | :03:12. | |
the recriminations about to begin, particularly number ten pointing the | :03:13. | :03:18. | |
finger of blame at the media, who they say misreported Mr Cameron's | :03:19. | :03:24. | |
tax affairs and made an explosive claim that Mr Cameron's father had | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
set up is optional fund to avoid tax. In other words, they think much | :03:29. | :03:34. | |
of the controversy and the headlines were driven by media misreporting. | :03:35. | :03:38. | |
Talking to Tory MPs, many take the view that Downing Street was largely | :03:39. | :03:44. | |
to blame for the whole row, because they took their eye off the ball, | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
because Mr Cameron was too focused on the EU referendum and not looking | :03:50. | :03:54. | |
at domestic issues. That follows rows we have seen over the Budget, | :03:55. | :03:59. | |
Iain Duncan Smith, disability benefits, Sunday trading. What is | :04:00. | :04:02. | |
true is that, despite the rancour that now seems to be directed at | :04:03. | :04:09. | |
sections of the media, it seems very difficult now for Mr Cameron or any | :04:10. | :04:13. | |
other political leader to try to unwind the mounting pressure for | :04:14. | :04:19. | |
greater transparency and, in time, one suspects that pretty much anyone | :04:20. | :04:24. | |
aspiring for public office will have to be prepared to make their | :04:25. | :04:27. | |
financial affairs public. We will ask a group of voters if that is | :04:28. | :04:32. | |
enough for them all if they want more transparency. I just wonder | :04:33. | :04:39. | |
where it goes next, Norman? Most obviously, when ministers coming | :04:40. | :04:42. | |
here this morning, I will ask them, will you publish your tax returns? | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
Individual ministers will be under pressure to say what they will do. | :04:48. | :04:51. | |
OK, there may be no ruling demanding they publish their tax returns, but | :04:52. | :04:57. | |
perhaps some will, some want. Even at local elections it is possible to | :04:58. | :05:02. | |
imagine a situation where some candidates will say, I will publish | :05:03. | :05:06. | |
my tax returns, that puts huge pressure on others to publish | :05:07. | :05:11. | |
theirs. I think we are at a tipping point, there has been a change in | :05:12. | :05:15. | |
levels of accountability and transparency in public life and it | :05:16. | :05:19. | |
will be extraordinarily hard, even a figure like William Hague saying | :05:20. | :05:23. | |
this morning that it is very difficult to try to turn the clock | :05:24. | :05:28. | |
back on this new era, and I expect that in future, pretty much everyone | :05:29. | :05:32. | |
applying for public office will have to be prepared to answer why they | :05:33. | :05:35. | |
will not publish their financial affairs. Thank you, for the moment. | :05:36. | :05:41. | |
As a voter, what else do you want? Or is the publication of a tax | :05:42. | :05:46. | |
return, or a summary of it, enough? What do you want, medical records? | :05:47. | :05:51. | |
Where does it end? We will talk to voters after ten o'clock, you can | :05:52. | :05:56. | |
e-mail us, message as on Facebook, Twitter and the usual. Then Brown | :05:57. | :05:58. | |
has the news summary. MPs are to hold an emergency debate | :05:59. | :06:01. | |
on Britain's steel industry later after Labour warned its future | :06:02. | :06:04. | |
is hanging by a thread. Yesterday Tata announced it had | :06:05. | :06:06. | |
reached a deal with a British investment firm that could save more | :06:07. | :06:09. | |
than four thousand jobs The Government hasn't ruled out | :06:10. | :06:11. | |
co-investing with a private firm to save Tata's Port Talbot site - | :06:12. | :06:19. | |
as Simon Clemison reports. The steel industry | :06:20. | :06:27. | |
is still standing, While the plant at Scunthorpe | :06:28. | :06:29. | |
and other smaller sites have a new owner, a buyer has to be | :06:30. | :06:33. | |
found for Port Talbot. The future of the UK steel industry | :06:34. | :06:37. | |
is now hanging by a thread. If a suitable buyer is not | :06:38. | :06:41. | |
found, there would be In an unusual move, Angela Eagle | :06:42. | :06:43. | |
used Parliamentary rules to try and get an emergency debate | :06:44. | :06:47. | |
at a time when she had the numbers The government says they have been | :06:48. | :06:50. | |
in contact with potential buyers offering help, | :06:51. | :06:58. | |
which could go as far Unions want more detail on exactly | :06:59. | :07:00. | |
what that would mean, It is a world-class company that | :07:01. | :07:05. | |
makes world-class products. Customers want to stay with us, | :07:06. | :07:11. | |
but they want to know If the government can give us that | :07:12. | :07:14. | |
assurance, give a future employer that assurance, | :07:15. | :07:18. | |
then I think the future Tata has been patient | :07:19. | :07:20. | |
in the sell-off so far, but the pressure is on to | :07:21. | :07:25. | |
find a deal. Tougher new guidelines covering | :07:26. | :07:32. | |
cosmetic surgery are being issued by the General Medical Council | :07:33. | :07:35. | |
to improve safety, quality Two for the price of one offers | :07:36. | :07:37. | |
will be banned and clinics won't be They come in the wake of the PIP | :07:38. | :07:44. | |
implant scandal, where nearly 50,000 women in the UK were given | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
substandard breast implants. Here's our health | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
correspondent Dominic Hughes. Victoria Ashton is one of thousands | :07:54. | :07:56. | |
of women in the UK living with the consequences of the PIP | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
breast implant scandal. She was given implants that | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
contained industrial grade silicone and then failed, | :08:05. | :08:07. | |
so she welcomes the new guidelines, There are a lot of cowboys out | :08:08. | :08:10. | |
there, hopefully the new regulations They will have to be really | :08:11. | :08:17. | |
on the ball, they are popping up You just don't know who you're | :08:18. | :08:22. | |
going to be seeing. Fingers crossed it will be good | :08:23. | :08:25. | |
going forward, but time will tell. The new guidelines cover | :08:26. | :08:32. | |
all cosmetics procedures, They include a ban on promotions, | :08:33. | :08:33. | |
patients must be offered a cooling off period and the patient's consent | :08:34. | :08:42. | |
must be obtained by Our new guidelines should reassure | :08:43. | :08:44. | |
people having cosmetic surgery, they need to know that pros and cons | :08:45. | :08:53. | |
and they need to have discussed it with the person who is going | :08:54. | :08:59. | |
to take that procedure. At the moment, any doctor can | :09:00. | :09:03. | |
perform cosmetic surgery In light of the new rules, | :09:04. | :09:06. | |
the College of Surgeons is calling on the government to bring in a law | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
to help patients identify doctors who have had the right training | :09:12. | :09:14. | |
to carry out cosmetic surgery. This programme has been given | :09:15. | :09:30. | |
special access to an area of Leeds which has become the first place in | :09:31. | :09:34. | |
the UK where women are permitted to sell sex between specified hours. | :09:35. | :09:39. | |
Known as the managed approach, it was introduced in an effort | :09:40. | :09:42. | |
Prostitutes can sell their services between seven at night and seven | :09:43. | :09:46. | |
in the morning in a specific area without being stopped by police. | :09:47. | :09:49. | |
We will be getting more on that story later in the programme. | :09:50. | :09:52. | |
Prison inspectors have described one of Britain's oldest jails as rat | :09:53. | :09:55. | |
Inspectors found that many prisoners at London's Wormwood Scrubs jail | :09:56. | :09:58. | |
spent all day, doubled up in dirty and damaged cells. | :09:59. | :10:03. | |
The Chief Inspector of Prisons said conditions at the jail continued | :10:04. | :10:05. | |
A Prison reform group said the jail was a scene of Dickensian squalor. | :10:06. | :10:11. | |
Here's our home affairs correspondent Danny Shaw. | :10:12. | :10:15. | |
Has time finally caught up with one of Britain's oldest prisons? | :10:16. | :10:20. | |
Built in the Victorian era, Wormwood Scrubs has had | :10:21. | :10:22. | |
Last year, one prison officer said conditions were so bad | :10:23. | :10:26. | |
The latest inspection report suggests Wormwood | :10:27. | :10:31. | |
Inspectors said their findings were very concerning. | :10:32. | :10:36. | |
They said some prisoners were frightened to leave their cells | :10:37. | :10:39. | |
because of high levels of violence, rats were found in the prison | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
and a rat's nest was found in the grounds. | :10:44. | :10:45. | |
The overall conditions were described as poor with dirty, | :10:46. | :10:50. | |
damaged cells and unscreened toilets. | :10:51. | :10:53. | |
Two cell windows were found to have jagged glass. | :10:54. | :10:56. | |
The cell was used by a prisoner assessed to be at risk | :10:57. | :11:07. | |
David Cameron made prison reform a priority earlier this year. | :11:08. | :11:13. | |
POgogo prisons are not a holiday camp, not really. | :11:14. | :11:15. | |
They are often miserable, painful environments. | :11:16. | :11:17. | |
The Government plans to sell old jails and build new ones | :11:18. | :11:20. | |
instead, but the sale of Wormwood Scrubs has not | :11:21. | :11:25. | |
Prison officials said conditions had improved since the inspection last | :11:26. | :11:29. | |
December, but acknowledged there was a long way to go. | :11:30. | :11:34. | |
Around 7,000 primary and secondary school children in Edinburgh | :11:35. | :11:37. | |
will spend a second day away from the classroom today. | :11:38. | :11:40. | |
It follows the closure of 17 schools because of concerns | :11:41. | :11:43. | |
They were all built or refurbished under a public-private finance | :11:44. | :11:48. | |
Edinburgh City Council says it hopes all pupils will be back in schools | :11:49. | :11:54. | |
The victims of last year's terror attacks in Tunisia will be | :11:55. | :12:03. | |
remembered at a service at Westminster Abbey later on today. | :12:04. | :12:08. | |
It was the worst terror attack on Britain's in over a decade, with 30 | :12:09. | :12:18. | |
being killed. It followed a separate attack in the capital June as macro | :12:19. | :12:21. | |
three months earlier. Prince Harry is due to attend the service at | :12:22. | :12:26. | |
Westminster Abbey, along with the victims' families and survivors of | :12:27. | :12:27. | |
the attack. The Duke and Duchess | :12:28. | :12:29. | |
of Cambridge have met the Indian Prime Minister | :12:30. | :12:31. | |
on the third day of The informal meeting with Narendra | :12:32. | :12:39. | |
Modi to face in New Delhi at a former royal residence of the | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
maharajas. The Duke and Duchess are on a seven-day tour of India and | :12:45. | :12:47. | |
neighbouring Bhutan, their first visit to both countries. | :12:48. | :12:52. | |
A judge in the United States has told rock band Led Zeppelin that | :12:53. | :12:55. | |
a jury should decide whether the group stole the opening | :12:56. | :12:57. | |
chords to their 1971 classic Sstairway To Heaven. | :12:58. | :13:04. | |
They released the tune in 1971, but it is alleged that they lifted | :13:05. | :13:07. | |
part of the intro from the song Taurus by the American group | :13:08. | :13:10. | |
Spirit which was released four years earlier. | :13:11. | :13:15. | |
A trial has been scheduled for 10th May. | :13:16. | :13:22. | |
That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 9:30am. | :13:23. | :13:27. | |
In the next few minutes we'll bring you rare access to the first place | :13:28. | :13:30. | |
in the UK where women are allowed to sell sex between certain hours. | :13:31. | :13:34. | |
I'd really like you to watch that report and tell us what you think. | :13:35. | :13:37. | |
Is it something you'd like to see introduced where you live? | :13:38. | :13:46. | |
-- something you could see being introduced? | :13:47. | :13:48. | |
Do get in touch with us throughout the morning - | :13:49. | :13:51. | |
If you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate. | :13:52. | :13:54. | |
Here's some sport now with Olly Foster and a big night | :13:55. | :13:57. | |
There'll be 53,000 at Manchester City's Etihad Stadium tonight. | :13:58. | :14:00. | |
A club record European crowd for their Champions League | :14:01. | :14:03. | |
quarterfinal against Paris Saint Germain. | :14:04. | :14:07. | |
It's the second leg and it's balanced at 2-2 but those two away | :14:08. | :14:11. | |
goals from the game in Paris last week could be crucial for City. | :14:12. | :14:19. | |
It is a team that is prepared to score goals, prepared to play. We | :14:20. | :14:29. | |
have seen that we need to try to draw 0-0, I think we will lose the | :14:30. | :14:33. | |
game, it is not the way we normally play. The same teams that we have | :14:34. | :14:39. | |
seen for the last two and half seasons. | :14:40. | :14:40. | |
Good news for Manchester United and England as their captain | :14:41. | :14:42. | |
Wayne Rooney played for an hour at Old Trafford last night. | :14:43. | :14:45. | |
He's been out for two months, missing a dozen games | :14:46. | :14:47. | |
He turned out for the under 21s and though he had | :14:48. | :14:51. | |
a fairly quiet game, he came through unscathed and may | :14:52. | :14:54. | |
now make his return to the first team in their FA Cup quarter-final | :14:55. | :14:57. | |
replay against West Ham at Upton Park tomorrow. | :14:58. | :15:00. | |
Some important European qualifiers in women's football. | :15:01. | :15:04. | |
Wales have just kicked off in Kazakhstan. | :15:05. | :15:12. | |
-- Wales are playing in Kazakhstan in the next hour or so. | :15:13. | :15:15. | |
England are in Bosnia Herzegovina where a win would take them top | :15:16. | :15:18. | |
of their group they had a bit of a set-back last Friday | :15:19. | :15:21. | |
in Rotherham against Belgium, where their goalkeeper | :15:22. | :15:22. | |
Karen Bardsley had a bit of a shocker. | :15:23. | :15:24. | |
That's how the Belgians took the lead but they got a draw | :15:25. | :15:27. | |
in the end and there's no issue with Bardsley keeping her place | :15:28. | :15:30. | |
Karen has been outstanding for this team. She played in the World Cup | :15:31. | :15:42. | |
twice. She is a superb world-class goalkeeper, but every goalkeeper | :15:43. | :15:47. | |
makes the odd mistake. Karen bailed us out many a time. She will be | :15:48. | :15:50. | |
backfiring again for England. Andy Murray's clay court | :15:51. | :15:53. | |
season starts today. He's at the Monte Carlo Masters | :15:54. | :15:55. | |
and is due on court about lunchtime against the Frenchman | :15:56. | :15:58. | |
Pierre-Hugues Herbert. Murray reached the Australian Open | :15:59. | :16:01. | |
final in January but since becoming a dad a week or so later he hasn't | :16:02. | :16:03. | |
played very much and He helped Great Britain | :16:04. | :16:06. | |
win their first Davis Cup tie of the year but was knocked out | :16:07. | :16:10. | |
early in two Masters tournaments I want to play at that level which | :16:11. | :16:21. | |
will give me an opportunity to go deep in the tournaments and you | :16:22. | :16:24. | |
know, win against the best players which is what I did on the clay last | :16:25. | :16:28. | |
year and I never had done that in my career before so last year gave me a | :16:29. | :16:32. | |
lot of confidence and I'm hoping I can repeat that form this year. | :16:33. | :16:38. | |
That's just about the sport for now. Danny Willett who was the toast at | :16:39. | :16:43. | |
Augusta winning his first major at the weekend. He touches down in | :16:44. | :16:50. | |
Manchester in the next few hours. I wonder how sore his head will be? | :16:51. | :16:58. | |
Thank you for your messages about what you as a voter want to see when | :16:59. | :17:05. | |
it comes to public transparency. This from a viewer, "Anybody who | :17:06. | :17:10. | |
receives a salary, reporters at the BBC should publish their tax | :17:11. | :17:15. | |
returns. This would be truly open and transparent." On Facebook Fred | :17:16. | :17:20. | |
says, "I am getting very annoyed with the one-sidedness of this fuss | :17:21. | :17:24. | |
particularly over David Cameron's tax arrangements, why is it mainly | :17:25. | :17:29. | |
him that's under scrutiny? How about previous Labour leaders and their | :17:30. | :17:33. | |
spouses? The whole thing is being blown out of proportion by a | :17:34. | :17:39. | |
small-minded Jeremy Corbyn who has no political agenda other than to | :17:40. | :17:42. | |
attack the Prime Minister. He is jealous. If I had the money would I | :17:43. | :17:48. | |
try to invest legally and pay no or little tax, of course, I would, who | :17:49. | :17:52. | |
can say they have never had a cash-in-hand job done for them to | :17:53. | :17:57. | |
save a bit of VAT? Who wasn't bought an extra bottle of spirit back from | :17:58. | :18:02. | |
holiday? Most of us are guilty regardless of the amount. Before | :18:03. | :18:06. | |
throwing stones get out of that glasshouse." This text from someone | :18:07. | :18:10. | |
who doesn't leave their name, "When MPs stop getting paid by the public | :18:11. | :18:15. | |
purse, benefit claimants would have to declare everything, why can't | :18:16. | :18:19. | |
MPs?" Bernie says, "Seeing politicians tax returns isn't the | :18:20. | :18:24. | |
answer. Loopholes should be closed and off-shore funds made illegal." | :18:25. | :18:28. | |
We will talk to voters after 10am on this programme. Feed into that | :18:29. | :18:32. | |
conversation from wherever you are in the country. | :18:33. | :18:37. | |
Next this programme goes inside the first district in the UK | :18:38. | :18:39. | |
which allows sex workers to walk the streets without being stopped | :18:40. | :18:42. | |
by police effectively making street prostitution legal. | :18:43. | :18:46. | |
It's in Leeds and it is known as a "managed area". | :18:47. | :18:51. | |
The thinking behind it is this, despite the law which bans actively | :18:52. | :18:55. | |
touting for business in a public place, | :18:56. | :18:57. | |
women and men are always going to walk the streets selling sex. | :18:58. | :19:00. | |
So if that's the case, why not try and offer them some | :19:01. | :19:04. | |
level of protection and make it safer? | :19:05. | :19:06. | |
Under the "street rules", women are free to sell sex and men | :19:07. | :19:12. | |
can buy it between the hours of 7pm and 7am so long as they don't drop | :19:13. | :19:17. | |
Don't use drugs in the area and don't take part in any | :19:18. | :19:23. | |
The scheme has been in place since October. | :19:24. | :19:26. | |
Since then a sex worker has died after being attacked | :19:27. | :19:29. | |
inside the managed area, a man has been charged with murder. | :19:30. | :19:31. | |
We've had unique access to it, spending time with sex workers | :19:32. | :19:35. | |
and charities who support them, though no one who was buying sex | :19:36. | :19:38. | |
This film from our reporter James Longman contains graphic | :19:39. | :19:41. | |
conversations you may not want young children to hear. | :19:42. | :19:44. | |
It is seedy and it is not what you want. I want to be very proud of it, | :19:45. | :20:16. | |
but I'm not proud of the association that it has got of being a red light | :20:17. | :20:21. | |
district. Sex working is a dangerous game | :20:22. | :20:26. | |
anyway. You don't know who you're going to come across. You can get a | :20:27. | :20:30. | |
nice guy one minute and then you can get a guy who is extremely violent | :20:31. | :20:37. | |
the next minute. It was just an awful day. It's one | :20:38. | :20:42. | |
of those things like you, you kind of know that potentially it is going | :20:43. | :20:51. | |
to happen on your patch. You know, you think to yourself, "Is | :20:52. | :20:56. | |
he going to kill you?" It is a dangerous game. It is not worth the | :20:57. | :20:58. | |
risk. In a suburb of Leeds, there is an | :20:59. | :21:30. | |
area which allows sex workers to walk the streets without being | :21:31. | :21:34. | |
arrested. It is called the managed approach, an area controlled by the | :21:35. | :21:44. | |
police and the council. A mixture of migrant and British sex workers and | :21:45. | :21:45. | |
they have to be over 18. If they ask me for a blow job, | :21:46. | :22:19. | |
it will be 30. If they want both, I say to them, | :22:20. | :22:37. | |
if you know your maths, add it up. If they want to come back | :22:38. | :22:48. | |
to my house it is extras. I tell them it is cheaper to go | :22:49. | :22:53. | |
for the hour as I charge 100 quid. On average, how many men | :22:54. | :22:56. | |
would you see in one night? When they get older, and they say, | :22:57. | :22:59. | |
"how did my mummy die?". "Oh, she was a prostitute". | :23:00. | :23:23. | |
It is not nice, is it? Can I ask you, what you | :23:24. | :23:25. | |
need the money for? I will give it up one | :23:26. | :23:27. | |
day but I've got a lot I take drugs and they help me | :23:28. | :23:37. | |
cope, to be honest. This part of town seems | :23:38. | :23:47. | |
to be pretty industrial, there are a lot of office | :23:48. | :23:56. | |
buildings and warehouses. It seems quite busy, we are quite | :23:57. | :23:59. | |
close to Leeds city centre. Traditionally, sex workers in this | :24:00. | :24:04. | |
part of town worked The idea is to bring them down | :24:05. | :24:06. | |
from those areas where there are families and children, | :24:07. | :24:12. | |
to make sure they are working in places where businesses | :24:13. | :24:17. | |
are operating during the day, It is just that every time you drive | :24:18. | :24:19. | |
to the end of the road you see They will eye you up. | :24:20. | :24:28. | |
Not particularly offensive. But what is offensive | :24:29. | :24:36. | |
is the debris that's left behind from their nefarious | :24:37. | :24:39. | |
activities, which is used I don't disagree with any scheme | :24:40. | :24:40. | |
in principle which supports the safeguarding of vulnerable | :24:41. | :24:47. | |
people, and street sex workers are clearly | :24:48. | :24:49. | |
extremely vulnerable people. I don't agree with the manner | :24:50. | :24:53. | |
in which the council Because it has forced | :24:54. | :24:55. | |
the problem onto us. Night falls and work begins | :24:56. | :25:06. | |
in the managed area. Obviously you can see | :25:07. | :25:14. | |
there are no houses here. No. | :25:15. | :25:29. | |
I've seen him before. He tries to get it for a fiver | :25:30. | :25:35. | |
or a tenner, and he knows I tell them, you pay | :25:36. | :25:38. | |
for steak you get steak, I was badly beaten and raped | :25:39. | :25:47. | |
when I was pregnant. It happened on the back | :25:48. | :25:54. | |
streets down there. He's serving a 10-year | :25:55. | :26:06. | |
prison sentence. The area that allows Chelsea | :26:07. | :26:17. | |
to work is controversial In a statement, Safer Leeds, | :26:18. | :26:19. | |
which is the police and council You've seen tonight, | :26:20. | :26:30. | |
in a short period of time, actually, because we | :26:31. | :26:54. | |
haven't been out long. Normally over a three hour outreach | :26:55. | :26:56. | |
we might see about 12. Alongside the authorities, | :26:57. | :27:01. | |
charities like Basis work to keep Emily is a case worker and spends | :27:02. | :27:03. | |
many evenings in Holbeck. We drive around the managed area | :27:04. | :27:12. | |
and outside of it as well, actually. To see if there are any women | :27:13. | :27:15. | |
working, we can offer them a hot drink, condoms, some food, | :27:16. | :27:18. | |
gloves, a safety alarm, those kind of things, | :27:19. | :27:23. | |
and just check people are OK and there's nothing | :27:24. | :27:26. | |
they are worried about. We can take reports from women | :27:27. | :27:36. | |
as well, about anything suspicious or anything | :27:37. | :27:38. | |
they feel concerned about. What has been the | :27:39. | :27:39. | |
difference to this area? Firstly, and foremost, | :27:40. | :27:41. | |
the women have a much better Campaigners say the women are more | :27:42. | :27:44. | |
willing to come forward Before the approach was adopted, | :27:45. | :27:54. | |
sex workers reported only 26% After the pilot scheme came | :27:55. | :27:58. | |
into force reports were up to 51%. Well, sex work still happened | :27:59. | :28:07. | |
in this area before we had But it was hidden and we would not | :28:08. | :28:11. | |
necessarily know where people were. Last year one woman was killed | :28:12. | :28:22. | |
inside the managed area. Daria Pionko was 21 and a sex | :28:23. | :28:26. | |
worker from Poland. She was attacked and later | :28:27. | :28:29. | |
died in hospital. She was really funny. | :28:30. | :28:32. | |
A really friendly girl. The police rang me at seven o'clock | :28:33. | :28:38. | |
in the morning to tell me that somebody had died, | :28:39. | :28:41. | |
and I just went cold. We won't forget her. | :28:42. | :28:45. | |
It was an absolute tragedy. A murder like this might | :28:46. | :28:55. | |
tell people that having It is not completely | :28:56. | :28:57. | |
safe, that is right. It's not completely safe | :28:58. | :29:02. | |
but it is definitely safer and what happened, | :29:03. | :29:04. | |
as a result of the managed area, and the trust now between the girls | :29:05. | :29:07. | |
and the police, people were coming forward, | :29:08. | :29:13. | |
like girls were coming forward, Cars continue to circle, | :29:14. | :29:15. | |
free from police interference. We tried to speak to some of the men | :29:16. | :29:23. | |
picking up women but no one Do you need any more | :29:24. | :29:26. | |
condoms or anything? No, I've got loads | :29:27. | :29:43. | |
of condoms, thank you. Me? | :29:44. | :29:47. | |
I did lots of work tonight. You have been gone | :29:48. | :29:53. | |
an hour or something? Yeah, it doesn't take me long | :29:54. | :30:01. | |
to make money, love. Can I ask how many men | :30:02. | :30:03. | |
you met this evening? Do you play by the rules | :30:04. | :30:06. | |
of the managed area? Yeah, I do, but a car just | :30:07. | :30:12. | |
dropped me off down But he dropped me out | :30:13. | :30:14. | |
there because he said he had to go Risky, you can't do it | :30:15. | :30:22. | |
somewhere like that. What would you do if they got | :30:23. | :30:27. | |
rid of it as a result? It would just go back to the same | :30:28. | :30:30. | |
place, the same thing, wouldn't it? Back to Home Office cautions | :30:31. | :30:34. | |
and back to being locked up and you won't get as many girls | :30:35. | :30:37. | |
out as there would be because you don't want prostitution | :30:38. | :30:42. | |
on your record, do you? But it is better like this, | :30:43. | :30:46. | |
because at least you are They are giving you a time | :30:47. | :30:51. | |
and you have got to stick to it. If you go over that time, | :30:52. | :30:59. | |
you've only got yourself to blame. Yeah, but I do put some away | :31:00. | :31:02. | |
for my daughter. How would you feel if she said | :31:03. | :31:12. | |
to you one day, "Mum, It is 7am, the time when the managed | :31:13. | :31:15. | |
area closes for the evening. You can see, there is a lot | :31:16. | :31:36. | |
of litter, empty Coke cans, You can see people arriving back | :31:37. | :31:39. | |
for work in the morning. It is not really an environment they | :31:40. | :31:47. | |
really want to come back to work to. You can see why people who work | :31:48. | :31:51. | |
around here are not Women like Chelsea would | :31:52. | :31:54. | |
still be on the streets, But the impact some feel the managed | :31:55. | :32:04. | |
approach has had on this area's Protection or prosecution, | :32:05. | :32:12. | |
it is a choice Leeds You don't know what type of man | :32:13. | :32:19. | |
you are going to get next. They may look all right, | :32:20. | :32:33. | |
but they could be nasty. You take a gamble with yourself | :32:34. | :32:38. | |
at the end of the day. A couple of comments, Jan e-mails, | :32:39. | :33:06. | |
finally a worthwhile approach and some common sense regarding sex | :33:07. | :33:10. | |
workers in Leeds, well done. The approach should go national, but | :33:11. | :33:15. | |
there is a very long way to go to get to the point that sex workers | :33:16. | :33:18. | |
have equal rights and proper safety in their working environment. Good | :33:19. | :33:22. | |
on you for covering the subject. John says I believe that soliciting | :33:23. | :33:26. | |
in public places should remain banned, as it is not nice for the | :33:27. | :33:30. | |
people who have delivered work in these areas. At the same time, we | :33:31. | :33:34. | |
should work at legalising brothels as long as they are away from public | :33:35. | :33:37. | |
places. If you live in Leeds, | :33:38. | :33:38. | |
tell us how the scheme If you are a sex worker, what did | :33:39. | :33:49. | |
you think? If you live elsewhere in the UK, would you be alarmed if this | :33:50. | :33:51. | |
came up in your local authority? And if you've used sex workers | :33:52. | :33:54. | |
in the past or do now. As a curb crawler, you will not be | :33:55. | :33:57. | |
arrested in a managed area. And if you want to share that film, | :33:58. | :34:04. | |
you can find it on the programme Still to come: We still can't tell | :34:05. | :34:18. | |
you the name of the married celebrity who's taken out | :34:19. | :34:22. | |
an injunction over reports they had an extramarital threesome | :34:23. | :34:24. | |
but as more and more people find out online, why hasn't | :34:25. | :34:27. | |
it been lifted yet? Is the injection pointless? We will | :34:28. | :34:35. | |
discuss that in the next half-hour. -- is the injunction pointless? | :34:36. | :34:38. | |
A commemoration service for the 38 people who were murdered on a beach | :34:39. | :34:41. | |
in Tunisia takes place in London at lunchtime. | :34:42. | :34:43. | |
We speak to three of those who escaped the gunmen that day. | :34:44. | :34:47. | |
Here's Ben in the BBC Newsroom with a summary of today's news. | :34:48. | :34:53. | |
Downing Street has accused the media of fuelling a frenzy over | :34:54. | :34:55. | |
the controversy surrounding David Cameron's tax affairs. | :34:56. | :34:58. | |
Sources at Number Ten admit that mistakes were made over | :34:59. | :35:02. | |
the handling of the row - but have criticised the media | :35:03. | :35:07. | |
for what the sources say was misreporting | :35:08. | :35:09. | |
of the Prime Minister's tax arrangements. | :35:10. | :35:16. | |
Mr Cameron said yesterday his father's reputation had been | :35:17. | :35:18. | |
MPs will hold an emergency debate on Britain's steel industry later, | :35:19. | :35:27. | |
after Labour warned its future was hanging by a thread. | :35:28. | :35:32. | |
Yesterday Tata steel announced it had reached a deal with a British | :35:33. | :35:35. | |
investment firm that could save more than 4,000 jobs in Scunthorpe, | :35:36. | :35:38. | |
The Government said it would consider co-investing | :35:39. | :35:43. | |
with any buyer who comes forward to try to keep | :35:44. | :35:46. | |
New guidelines on cosmetic surgery will come into force in June, | :35:47. | :35:54. | |
to try to put an end to botched and unethical procedures. | :35:55. | :35:57. | |
Doctors will no longer be able to do two for one offers on surgery, | :35:58. | :36:01. | |
and will have to fully explain the risks of the | :36:02. | :36:04. | |
It's aimed at helping patients identify doctors who have had | :36:05. | :36:08. | |
New guidance should reassure the public that cosmetic procedures will | :36:09. | :36:22. | |
be safer in the future, cars they will know the pros and cons and they | :36:23. | :36:26. | |
can be reassured that the person they met and who disgusted with them | :36:27. | :36:32. | |
will undertake the procedure. -- few discussed it with them. | :36:33. | :36:34. | |
This programme has been given special access to an area of Leeds | :36:35. | :36:37. | |
that's become the first place in the UK where women are permitted | :36:38. | :36:40. | |
Known as the managed approach, it was introduced in an effort | :36:41. | :36:44. | |
Prostitutes can sell their services between seven at night and seven | :36:45. | :36:48. | |
in the morning in a specific area without being stopped by police. | :36:49. | :36:51. | |
We'll be getting more on this story later in the programme. | :36:52. | :36:57. | |
Figures just out show inflation is up. The CBI, the rate at which | :36:58. | :37:06. | |
prices are going up, rose 205% last month, up from 0.3% in February. -- | :37:07. | :37:11. | |
rose by 0.5% last month. Prison inspectors say one | :37:12. | :37:13. | |
of Britain's oldest, and most notorious, jails has become | :37:14. | :37:15. | |
more unsafe and squalid, with conditions that wouldn't be out | :37:16. | :37:17. | |
of place in a Dickens novel. Inspectors at Wormwood Scrubs | :37:18. | :37:20. | |
in west London called the jail rat-infested and overcrowded, | :37:21. | :37:22. | |
with most prisoners spending less than two hours a day | :37:23. | :37:24. | |
out of their cells. That's a summary of the latest BBC | :37:25. | :37:30. | |
News - more at 10am. Here's some sport now | :37:31. | :37:33. | |
with Olly Foster, and a big night There'll be a record European crowd | :37:34. | :37:36. | |
at Manchester City tonight as they look to reach | :37:37. | :37:40. | |
the Champions League semi-finals. It's 2-2 heading into the second leg | :37:41. | :37:43. | |
of their tie against Wayne Rooney returned to action last | :37:44. | :37:45. | |
night after two months He played for an hour | :37:46. | :37:49. | |
for Manchester United's Under 21s. He could play in the FA Cup | :37:50. | :37:55. | |
against West Ham tomorrow. Andy Murray's clay court | :37:56. | :37:58. | |
season starts today. The world number two is at | :37:59. | :38:00. | |
the Monte Carlo Masters and he's due No doubt you've read the story | :38:01. | :38:03. | |
about that well-known married couple who've taken out an injunction | :38:04. | :38:15. | |
to prevent The Sun on Sunday from publishing a story | :38:16. | :38:18. | |
about the extramarital threesome If you're in England and Wales | :38:19. | :38:20. | |
that's all your supposed to know because the injunction | :38:21. | :38:25. | |
prevents the media from The names have been published | :38:26. | :38:27. | |
legally in the United States and Scotland, a political blog has | :38:28. | :38:31. | |
named them too. Meanwhile the Speaker of the House | :38:32. | :38:34. | |
of Commons has banned MPs at Westminster from revealing | :38:35. | :38:37. | |
the identity of the couple too. Here's what we can tell | :38:38. | :38:39. | |
you about the story. The case has left some arguing that | :38:40. | :40:07. | |
injunctions are now out Let's hear from Charlotte Harris, | :40:08. | :40:10. | |
a partner at the law firm Kingsley Napley - | :40:11. | :40:13. | |
she's represented people who've taken out injunctions | :40:14. | :40:15. | |
against the media and Paul Connew, a former editor of the Sunday | :40:16. | :40:17. | |
Mirror, who's had a number What's the public interest argument | :40:18. | :40:20. | |
for publishing this story? I think the public's right to know | :40:21. | :40:39. | |
the celebrity in question is someone who has given the impression that | :40:40. | :40:47. | |
they were in a happy marital relationship that involved Fidelity, | :40:48. | :40:53. | |
and I think it is a very dangerous situation where the public are not | :40:54. | :40:56. | |
allowed to know, particularly in this day and age when I am sure | :40:57. | :41:01. | |
probably half of your viewers at the very least already know who we are | :41:02. | :41:05. | |
talking about, even if Charlotte and I didn't know, we could take our | :41:06. | :41:09. | |
phones out of our pockets and find out within seconds. It has been | :41:10. | :41:15. | |
published in a major publication in America, it has been published in | :41:16. | :41:22. | |
Australia, Canada, New Zealand... Scotland, a political blog. And in | :41:23. | :41:27. | |
this day and age of social media, I think this is a nonsense, it makes | :41:28. | :41:31. | |
them all look foolish. What is the public interest in public -- | :41:32. | :41:39. | |
publishing the story. There is none at all. The Court of Appeal looked | :41:40. | :41:44. | |
at it closely. What we were talking about with monogamy, at some point | :41:45. | :41:48. | |
in 2007 this couple may have made a couple of references to monogamy. | :41:49. | :41:54. | |
Now, in the autonomy of your own relationship with your partner, you | :41:55. | :41:59. | |
may decide privately together after a few years that, actually, you | :42:00. | :42:03. | |
might want to conceptually opened things up, have a different sort of | :42:04. | :42:10. | |
relationship. At what point are you supposed to make a public | :42:11. | :42:13. | |
announcement saying I want to correct this position, I want to go | :42:14. | :42:17. | |
to the Press Association just in case somebody in the future tries to | :42:18. | :42:21. | |
sell a story on says we are hypocritical, even if you had, the | :42:22. | :42:25. | |
newspapers would say you have waived your right to brevity, you have | :42:26. | :42:29. | |
talked about your sex life in public. That is a nonsense. -- waved | :42:30. | :42:34. | |
your right to brevity. Some of our viewers might not be aware of the | :42:35. | :42:40. | |
intricacies of the Appeal Court judgment. The sun on Sunday said we | :42:41. | :42:42. | |
should be able to publish this because it will correct this false | :42:43. | :42:47. | |
image of this happy, committed married couple. The Appeal Court | :42:48. | :42:51. | |
said that loving, committed and married does not necessarily mean | :42:52. | :42:57. | |
another mess. The couple, in the court papers, argued that they are | :42:58. | :43:01. | |
in an open relationship, so there is no public interest in publishing | :43:02. | :43:08. | |
this. Why do you not accept that? And original High Court judge found | :43:09. | :43:13. | |
in favour... But it was overturned. I suspect that whatever might emerge | :43:14. | :43:18. | |
in the House of Commons, I think the supreme court, where I am sure the | :43:19. | :43:23. | |
sun on Sunday will go, may well overturn the Appeal Court. | :43:24. | :43:33. | |
Charlotte, what is the point in an injunction against this in Scotland | :43:34. | :43:40. | |
when you can read this in the US and Scotland? -- an injunction against | :43:41. | :43:46. | |
this in England? Privacy injunctions are very rare now. We are looking at | :43:47. | :43:53. | |
the lesser of two macro evils. If you went and sought out that | :43:54. | :43:57. | |
information, and I know you say that we could look in our pockets if we | :43:58. | :44:00. | |
wanted to, those people can't be bothered. You described it as a | :44:01. | :44:05. | |
major publication in America, I would say it is not, it is not | :44:06. | :44:09. | |
mainstream, even in America where it was published, it was not picked up | :44:10. | :44:14. | |
his people were not interested in it. You could say many things are a | :44:15. | :44:19. | |
nonsense just because they cannot be fully prevented. Whilst people may | :44:20. | :44:23. | |
be able to if they can be bothered to seek out this information look | :44:24. | :44:28. | |
for it, the Daily Mail, the Sun and the other tabloid newspapers have | :44:29. | :44:31. | |
not been allowed to put their own spin on it with a spread with no | :44:32. | :44:36. | |
dead pretty unsympathetic pictures. It has mitigated the damage, and I | :44:37. | :44:42. | |
think that is an important thing and a good result. You sometimes work on | :44:43. | :44:48. | |
behalf of clients who want to bring injunctions to stop the media | :44:49. | :44:53. | |
publishing certain details, usually about their private lives. Why is | :44:54. | :44:57. | |
that considered wise when we saw what happened with Ryan Giggs, at | :44:58. | :45:00. | |
some point you reach a tipping point and everybody publishes it? This has | :45:01. | :45:07. | |
been the first injunction since 2011, they are very rare, and the | :45:08. | :45:10. | |
reason they are so Ryan is because we this debate, you got it draws | :45:11. | :45:18. | |
attention. -- and the reason they are so rare. Doesn't it lead to so | :45:19. | :45:22. | |
much interest that it leads to the celebrities being named? If I had | :45:23. | :45:29. | |
the choice and I was in the position that the claimants have found | :45:30. | :45:31. | |
themselves in, I would still prefer that the publication was limited. I | :45:32. | :45:37. | |
would want to, and this is really important, defend my privacy rights, | :45:38. | :45:42. | |
defend my human rights. Why should I say, if it will be difficult and it | :45:43. | :45:47. | |
will only mitigate my circumstances, I will just throw those rights away? | :45:48. | :45:51. | |
Where will that leave that couple, moving forward? You buy the argument | :45:52. | :45:55. | |
of the right to brevity and protecting the young children? | :45:56. | :46:00. | |
Well, one of the hats I wear is a PR advisor. I would not advice anybody | :46:01. | :46:09. | |
who is a client of mine to take this course of action because it has | :46:10. | :46:15. | |
caused more public interest than it otherwise would have done and is | :46:16. | :46:22. | |
going to make it last longer and it was always going to be ineffectual | :46:23. | :46:26. | |
in the social media age. So the argument of young children being | :46:27. | :46:29. | |
harassed in the short-term or the long-term, it doesn't matter to you? | :46:30. | :46:33. | |
I think that is important, but I think we can be careful that that in | :46:34. | :46:38. | |
itself doesn't become, if you like, a regular weapon used by people | :46:39. | :46:43. | |
seeking injunctions. I don't think, I don't think that protecting the | :46:44. | :46:48. | |
children can take precedence over freedom of speech. OK. Can I sorry, | :46:49. | :46:53. | |
it hasn't. The Court of Appeal looked at this. They said it was | :46:54. | :46:58. | |
trite law to say you could hide behind your children. What they can | :46:59. | :47:02. | |
do and what it is right to do, is to take factors of third parties into | :47:03. | :47:06. | |
account such as children. Again, a matter of autonomy, why shouldn't | :47:07. | :47:09. | |
you be able to choose when you tell your children what sort of | :47:10. | :47:12. | |
relationship you're in. A final thought from both of you. Do you | :47:13. | :47:16. | |
expect the couple to be named openly in the media in England and Wales in | :47:17. | :47:20. | |
the next week or two weeks, a month? I hope not. I don't think so. I | :47:21. | :47:25. | |
think, yes, they will be either because of a different ruling by the | :47:26. | :47:30. | |
courts or that some MP will actually name them in the Commons. And defy | :47:31. | :47:35. | |
the Speaker of the House of Commons who is trying to ban that. Thank you | :47:36. | :47:41. | |
both very much for coming on the programme. | :47:42. | :47:47. | |
Send me an e-mail if you are in the slightest bit bothered about knowing | :47:48. | :47:52. | |
who the couple are or if you have already Googled and found out, you | :47:53. | :47:55. | |
can at: A couple of comments already. | :47:56. | :48:00. | |
Let me look at these, Jemma says, "Who cares what celebrity had a | :48:01. | :48:05. | |
threesome, good on them. Bore off. There is more important news to | :48:06. | :48:09. | |
report on." Paul says, "More people are interested in the story because | :48:10. | :48:12. | |
of the injunction. A waste of time that makes a mockery of the law." | :48:13. | :48:17. | |
Coming up, the RSPCA investigate 400 cases of animal abuse each day, | :48:18. | :48:20. | |
but should they prosecute those cases as well? | :48:21. | :48:22. | |
Some say they aren't impartial enough and the wrong people | :48:23. | :48:24. | |
MPs begin investigating the RSPCA's powers today, we will talk to one of | :48:25. | :48:35. | |
those MPs. A commemoration service will be held | :48:36. | :48:39. | |
later today for the victims of the terrorist attacks | :48:40. | :48:42. | |
in Tunisia last year. 38 people died, most of them | :48:43. | :48:44. | |
British holidaymakers, when a gunman opened fire | :48:45. | :48:46. | |
on a beach in Sousse. As holidaymakers fled | :48:47. | :48:48. | |
for their lives, Tunisian student Seifeddine Rezgui | :48:49. | :48:50. | |
continued his attack entering the hotel complex | :48:51. | :48:51. | |
through the pool area. So-called Islamic State admitted | :48:52. | :48:53. | |
responsibility for the massacre. Ellie Mackin and her friend | :48:54. | :49:01. | |
Debbie Horsfall were on the beach in Sousse that day and will be | :49:02. | :49:04. | |
going to the service Maxine Midgley, who also saw | :49:05. | :49:06. | |
the gunman shooting and killing people indiscriminately, | :49:07. | :49:10. | |
has decided not to attend. She's worried that the terror threat | :49:11. | :49:13. | |
in London is too high to risk her Thank you all very much for coming | :49:14. | :49:28. | |
on the programme. Ellie, how are you feeling about today? A little bit | :49:29. | :49:33. | |
anxious, but I feel, for me, it is a must that we, me and Debbie to | :49:34. | :49:39. | |
attend just, just to show our respect to other families that lost | :49:40. | :49:44. | |
their lives and just for us to take a step forward. What about you | :49:45. | :49:48. | |
Debbie, how are you feeling about today? Very much the same as Ellie, | :49:49. | :49:51. | |
we are here solely to pay our respects to the people that didn't | :49:52. | :49:55. | |
make it. We are lucky enough to have come back and we're lucky enough to | :49:56. | :50:00. | |
be able to be there today. Maxine, thank you for talking to us. Tell us | :50:01. | :50:05. | |
a little bit more about your anxieties concerning today? To be | :50:06. | :50:12. | |
quite truthful I do feel for the families that have lost the | :50:13. | :50:19. | |
families, friends, it is hard, but farce I'm concerned, it is for me | :50:20. | :50:26. | |
own safety. They don't know whether they're going to strike again or | :50:27. | :50:29. | |
when they're going to strike and as far as I'm concerned I don't think | :50:30. | :50:35. | |
anybody can look after our safety, anybody because obviously it | :50:36. | :50:39. | |
happened in Tunisia, there were bereavement there and at the end of | :50:40. | :50:43. | |
the day, I think it is just too, it has been made too public. Is it just | :50:44. | :50:50. | |
the capital of the UK that you worry about or is it big cities generally | :50:51. | :50:54. | |
across Europe? What would you say? I think it is everywhere to be quite | :50:55. | :50:59. | |
truthful. There is Paris, there is Brussels. There has been that much | :51:00. | :51:05. | |
with Isis and everything else, to me they're just, it is either lack of | :51:06. | :51:11. | |
communication or there is not enough intelligence, but it's, it just | :51:12. | :51:16. | |
scares me too much. I'd like to have gone, but I was too scared because | :51:17. | :51:23. | |
they just can't guarantee my safety. You and your partner Richard and | :51:24. | :51:28. | |
your daughter were on the beach when the killings happened and you | :51:29. | :51:32. | |
managed to hide, I think, in a shop for several hours. How has what you | :51:33. | :51:37. | |
experienced that day affected you and your family? It has affected me | :51:38. | :51:51. | |
most, I think. Now, we have all had counselling and Richard seems to be | :51:52. | :51:56. | |
OK, Briton win, we try to keep a lot of things away from brom win, but | :51:57. | :52:04. | |
she is old enough to watch telly and she reads papers and things, but, it | :52:05. | :52:10. | |
is just, you didn't know when they are going to strike next, to me, | :52:11. | :52:15. | |
nobody can guarantee my safety. Debbie and Ellie, can I ask you, of | :52:16. | :52:23. | |
your recollections of that day? Obviously we were on the beach, | :52:24. | :52:28. | |
weren't we? And I just happened to look to the side of me and there he | :52:29. | :52:35. | |
was. I literally just shouted and screamed to everybody where we were | :52:36. | :52:39. | |
sunbathing and just ran as quick as we could. Ran into the hotel and | :52:40. | :52:44. | |
tried to hide, me and Debbie actually got split up so throughout | :52:45. | :52:48. | |
the whole of the duration when he came towards our hotel, we didn't | :52:49. | :52:53. | |
know where each other were and we didn't until later on that | :52:54. | :52:56. | |
afternoon. So we didn't know whether we were alive or not, yeah. And what | :52:57. | :53:02. | |
about you, Debbie? I was lucky enough not to see the gunman. I | :53:03. | :53:07. | |
mean, well, I guess it was lucky that you stood up at the time that | :53:08. | :53:14. | |
you did and for her to shout. I've never moved so fast in my life. I | :53:15. | :53:18. | |
just jumped up, grabbed all my things and ran up to our hotel, but | :53:19. | :53:24. | |
even then, it was still terrifying because you knew that, we knew that | :53:25. | :53:28. | |
he was there. Nobody in the hotel knew what was going on. None of the | :53:29. | :53:32. | |
staff, you know, had any idea what was happening. Did you hear shots? | :53:33. | :53:38. | |
We heard it all, didn't we? I think at that point, I had kind of lost | :53:39. | :53:43. | |
like hearing of everything. It was just a case of just run. Yeah, I | :53:44. | :53:47. | |
think by that time, you can still hear it and you know, now I think, | :53:48. | :53:52. | |
even loud noises and bangs and stuff, we are still very startled | :53:53. | :53:56. | |
and I'm sure other people are experiencing that as well, but when | :53:57. | :54:01. | |
you're, you've never through anything like that before and | :54:02. | :54:04. | |
hopefully never anything like that again, but as soon as you're | :54:05. | :54:07. | |
running, you're not aware of what's going on, you just want to hide and | :54:08. | :54:12. | |
you want to be hiding in the best place possible where all four walls | :54:13. | :54:16. | |
were and that's literally. Even then, I didn't feel safe until | :54:17. | :54:21. | |
afterwards. Until we found out he had been shot. How do you reflect on | :54:22. | :54:28. | |
what you experienced and how does it affect your daily life? I think we | :54:29. | :54:33. | |
both take, I definitely do, take each day as it comes. Some days I | :54:34. | :54:37. | |
have great days and other days I have not so great days and you | :54:38. | :54:41. | |
know... We stop taking things for granted. Absolutely, you appreciate | :54:42. | :54:46. | |
more things on a daily basis that you wouldn't have. Little things you | :54:47. | :54:50. | |
would normally complain about, they are no longer worth complaining | :54:51. | :54:54. | |
about. Yes. Maxine I'm guessing you have good days and you have bad | :54:55. | :54:59. | |
days? Yeah, that's it. I'm very similar to the other two girls and I | :55:00. | :55:04. | |
understand, it is unbelievable, you can't explain sometimes because it | :55:05. | :55:10. | |
is that upsetting and it is like, I try and focus that I'm here to tell | :55:11. | :55:18. | |
the story. It is so difficult. I don't think, nobody will ever get | :55:19. | :55:23. | |
over what happened in Tunisia. We will just manage and find it a | :55:24. | :55:27. | |
little bit easier to keep thinking about it and things like that, but | :55:28. | :55:32. | |
we'll never forget. Never. How old is your daughter now? She is 15. | :55:33. | :55:37. | |
Yes. And do you talk about it? Are you open about it? Do you and your | :55:38. | :55:45. | |
partner keep your thoughts to yourselves? As a family, I always | :55:46. | :55:50. | |
ask her to see if she is OK and things like that, but she has | :55:51. | :55:54. | |
started bottling a few things up when she went back into school and I | :55:55. | :56:01. | |
thought she was getting a bit withdrawn. So I went up to the | :56:02. | :56:09. | |
school and explained things at school because unfortunately they've | :56:10. | :56:14. | |
changed the head of the year and they didn't know the situation what | :56:15. | :56:19. | |
happened in Tunisia. Her dad had to go up to school and put that to them | :56:20. | :56:24. | |
what had happened because it was a new deputy head as well. But then | :56:25. | :56:30. | |
they felt a bit embarrassed because they fetched it up in assembly at | :56:31. | :56:37. | |
school. I said to Bronwny, don't be embarrassed, it wasn't our fault. | :56:38. | :56:44. | |
We're here to tell the story, but unfortunately, there were fatalities | :56:45. | :56:49. | |
and Bronwyn does get quite emotional, but she seems to be, | :56:50. | :56:55. | |
well, we were concerned because to me she was like getting a bit | :56:56. | :56:59. | |
withdrawn and she weren't going out with friends. So we were trying to | :57:00. | :57:06. | |
make activities at home to try and occupy her mind and then she has | :57:07. | :57:13. | |
sleep-overs and things now so she is like and then I had a word with her | :57:14. | :57:18. | |
and asked her if there were any problems and she would just keep | :57:19. | :57:22. | |
saying she just can't believe we were actually on that beach when | :57:23. | :57:25. | |
that shooting and everything happened and she just said, "Why | :57:26. | :57:30. | |
weren't police allowed to shoot him?" I says, "I don't know Bronwyn | :57:31. | :57:38. | |
and she seems to be asking that question a lot. If there were armed | :57:39. | :57:43. | |
police on horses on the beach, why weren't they allowed to shoot him? | :57:44. | :57:50. | |
They had the, those police could have shot him, but and then a | :57:51. | :57:55. | |
soldier had to, who had been in the army, he took the gun, but it like | :57:56. | :58:01. | |
backfired and they couldn't get it to work or he would have been dead, | :58:02. | :58:06. | |
it was just as simple as that, but why weren't they allowed to? I know | :58:07. | :58:11. | |
it is a question I heard other survivors raise before. Thank you | :58:12. | :58:13. | |
for coming on the programme. I appreciate your time. Ellie and | :58:14. | :58:16. | |
Debbie, thank you for coming in. Coming up, our audience of voters | :58:17. | :58:32. | |
have arrived. How much they care about the tax affairs of our | :58:33. | :58:35. | |
politicians, how much they want to know about what politicians earn, | :58:36. | :58:40. | |
and what else they need to know. Do they want medical records? Or are | :58:41. | :58:45. | |
the tax summaries enough and is the media partly to blame as Downing | :58:46. | :58:49. | |
Street suggested this morning. Lots of you getting touch regarding our | :58:50. | :58:52. | |
report on sex workers on that area in Leeds where women can work as sex | :58:53. | :58:57. | |
workers without fear of prosecution as long as they don't break the | :58:58. | :59:00. | |
particular conditions set down. Joseph said, "Sex working is a trade | :59:01. | :59:04. | |
as old as time and making it regulated makes it safer. Offering | :59:05. | :59:08. | |
advice, help and treatment when asked for will reduce disease." ." | :59:09. | :59:14. | |
Georgia, "Tolerated zones are a step in the right direction, as it stands | :59:15. | :59:19. | |
sex workers have no rights and it is such a dangerous area to work in. I | :59:20. | :59:25. | |
believe the ultimate aim would be for full decriminalisation of | :59:26. | :59:29. | |
prostitution and the legal aidsation of brothels which are safer, girls | :59:30. | :59:33. | |
can work together, and have rules such as making men wear condoms and | :59:34. | :59:39. | |
they can have safety buttons installed in the rooms. Regulation | :59:40. | :59:47. | |
would be a good thing such as regular STDI checks." More on that | :59:48. | :59:50. | |
later on in the programme. The news and sport is on the wayment before | :59:51. | :59:52. | |
that, the weather. Here is Alex. of the right to brevity and | :59:53. | :59:56. | |
protecting the young children? Some big contrasts with the weather | :59:57. | :00:06. | |
today, just like yesterday. A cracking sunrise in Worthing, lots | :00:07. | :00:10. | |
of blue skies available, but not all the coasts are enjoying each | :00:11. | :00:16. | |
weather, East Anglia, for example, is grey and damp. It will get | :00:17. | :00:20. | |
brighter through the day, but other areas will stay rather drab thanks | :00:21. | :00:25. | |
to this area of low pressure anchored to the south-west for a | :00:26. | :00:29. | |
time, it is not moving far, meaning the weather is very static. Under | :00:30. | :00:33. | |
this weather front, it will be a grey day. That lies across Northern | :00:34. | :00:37. | |
Ireland, southern Scotland and northern England. It brought the | :00:38. | :00:41. | |
rain to eastern parts of the Midlands this morning and East | :00:42. | :00:45. | |
Anglia, that only slowly petering out here. The rain returning across | :00:46. | :00:50. | |
north-east England, sticking to central and southern Scotland. Some | :00:51. | :00:53. | |
sunshine in the south, but we will see heavy showers from lunchtime. It | :00:54. | :00:59. | |
will be hit and miss but we could see intense downpours. The far | :01:00. | :01:02. | |
north-west of Scotland staying dry and bright, grey and cool in the | :01:03. | :01:07. | |
east coast. There is that zone of wet weather, much dollar and damp | :01:08. | :01:11. | |
across central Scotland compared to yesterday, and the north-west | :01:12. | :01:14. | |
England, it got to 17 degrees in black rule, we will be struggling | :01:15. | :01:21. | |
into single figures. We have intense, heavy showers in the | :01:22. | :01:25. | |
south-west, but hit and miss, not everywhere will catch one, there is | :01:26. | :01:29. | |
a decent chance you might stay dry and hang on to the sunshine, | :01:30. | :01:32. | |
particularly on to the south coast. The showers will fade away this | :01:33. | :01:36. | |
evening but the area of rain sticks across eastern Scotland and | :01:37. | :01:40. | |
north-east England. Six or seven is the low, mist and fog forming in the | :01:41. | :01:46. | |
south. Again, it should tend to disappear. Quite a bit of sunshine | :01:47. | :01:50. | |
across England and Wales tomorrow, Shell is in the south-west becoming | :01:51. | :01:53. | |
more widespread, wet weather persisting across the far north east | :01:54. | :01:58. | |
of England -- showers in the south-west. The temperature is | :01:59. | :02:02. | |
suppressed to six or 7 degrees, but 17 as possible in the sunshine in | :02:03. | :02:07. | |
the south. We keep this low pressure down to the south-west even into | :02:08. | :02:11. | |
Thursday, there is a scrap going on, high pressure to the north, low | :02:12. | :02:16. | |
pressure to the south. The lower in the south is trying to bring milder | :02:17. | :02:20. | |
air, the high further north is trying to bring cold down from the | :02:21. | :02:25. | |
north. It is a bit of a scrap, and we will continue with that for the | :02:26. | :02:29. | |
rest of the week. The warmest weather in the South, there will be | :02:30. | :02:36. | |
heavy showers around, the coolest consist -- conditions persisting | :02:37. | :02:39. | |
across the North. That is it, good afternoon. | :02:40. | :02:41. | |
I'm Victoria Derbyshire, welcome to the programme | :02:42. | :02:42. | |
We have been bringing you rare access to the first place in the UK | :02:43. | :02:52. | |
where women can sell sex in a public place without being arrested. | :02:53. | :02:57. | |
Obviously you don't know what type of man you're going to get next, | :02:58. | :03:00. | |
and they may look all right but they could be nasty. | :03:01. | :03:03. | |
So you take a gamble with yourself at the end of the day. | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
We will talk to one sex worker who uses the managed area life before | :03:08. | :03:16. | |
11am. to blame for keeping David Cameron's | :03:17. | :03:18. | |
tax affairs in the headlines for the past week - | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
are they right, or do you want to know what elected | :03:23. | :03:24. | |
politicians earn and how We talk to a group | :03:25. | :03:26. | |
of viewers shortly. We'll ask what else they want to | :03:27. | :03:32. | |
know about politicians, if their tax affairs are enough or if they wanted | :03:33. | :03:36. | |
medical records and whatever else. Your views are welcome wherever you | :03:37. | :03:40. | |
are in the country. Should the RSPCA be allowed to | :03:41. | :03:43. | |
prosecute people they say have abused animals? Some say they are | :03:44. | :03:47. | |
not objective enough and the wrong people are sometimes taken to court. | :03:48. | :03:52. | |
MPs begin to investigate the powers of the RSPCA today. We will talk to | :03:53. | :04:01. | |
one of those later. It is three minutes past ten. | :04:02. | :04:02. | |
Here's Ben Brown in the BBC Newsroom with a summary of today's news. | :04:03. | :04:05. | |
Downing Street has accused the media of fuelling a frenzy over | :04:06. | :04:08. | |
the controversy surrounding David Cameron's tax affairs. | :04:09. | :04:10. | |
Sources at Number Ten admit that mistakes were made over | :04:11. | :04:13. | |
the handling of the row - but have criticised the media | :04:14. | :04:16. | |
for what the sources say was misreporting | :04:17. | :04:18. | |
of the Prime Minister's tax arrangements. | :04:19. | :04:20. | |
Mr Cameron said yesterday his father's reputation had been | :04:21. | :04:22. | |
And we'll have more on this in our audience debate | :04:23. | :04:28. | |
MPs will hold an emergency debate on Britain's steel industry later, | :04:29. | :04:33. | |
after Labour warned its future was hanging by a thread. | :04:34. | :04:36. | |
Yesterday Tata steel announced it had reached a deal with a British | :04:37. | :04:39. | |
investment firm that could save more than 4,000 jobs in Scunthorpe, | :04:40. | :04:41. | |
The Government said it would consider co-investing | :04:42. | :04:46. | |
with any buyer who comes forward to try to keep | :04:47. | :04:48. | |
Figures released in the last half hour show inflation is rising. | :04:49. | :04:59. | |
The rate at which prices are going up - the CPI - | :05:00. | :05:02. | |
rose to 0.5% last month, up from 0.3% in February. | :05:03. | :05:15. | |
Most of the increase was down to higher airfares and clothing prices. | :05:16. | :05:19. | |
New guidelines on cosmetic surgery will come into force in June, | :05:20. | :05:22. | |
to try to put an end to botched and unethical procedures. | :05:23. | :05:24. | |
Doctors will no longer be able to do two for one offers on surgery, | :05:25. | :05:28. | |
and will have to fully explain the risks of the | :05:29. | :05:30. | |
It's aimed at helping patients identify doctors who have had | :05:31. | :05:34. | |
New guidance should reassure the public that cosmetic procedures | :05:35. | :05:45. | |
will be safer in the future, because they will know the pros | :05:46. | :05:48. | |
and cons and they can be reassured that the person they met | :05:49. | :05:50. | |
and who disgussed it with them will undertake the procedure. | :05:51. | :05:53. | |
And we'll be putting your queries to a consultant plastic surgeon | :05:54. | :05:59. | |
later on about the new regulations at 11:30 this morning. | :06:00. | :06:02. | |
You can send in your questions to us using the hashtag #bbcaskthis | :06:03. | :06:05. | |
This programme has been given special access to an area of Leeds | :06:06. | :06:13. | |
that's become the first place in the UK where women are permitted | :06:14. | :06:16. | |
Known as the managed approach, it was introduced in an effort | :06:17. | :06:22. | |
Sex workers can sell their services between seven at night and seven | :06:23. | :06:26. | |
in the morning in a specific area without being stopped by police. | :06:27. | :06:34. | |
Prison inspectors say one of Britain's oldest, | :06:35. | :06:36. | |
and most notorious, jails has become more unsafe and squalid, | :06:37. | :06:39. | |
with conditions that wouldn't be out of place in a Dickens novel. | :06:40. | :06:42. | |
Inspectors at Wormwood Scrubs in west London called the jail | :06:43. | :06:44. | |
rat-infested and overcrowded, with most prisoners spending less | :06:45. | :06:46. | |
than two hours a day out of their cells. | :06:47. | :06:48. | |
Inspectors said many inmates were doubled up in dirty and damaged | :06:49. | :06:56. | |
cells. A prison charity has described it as a scene of | :06:57. | :07:04. | |
Dickensian squalor. The founders of led Zeppelin, Robert Plant and Jimmy | :07:05. | :07:10. | |
Page, are facing a copyright battle over the 1971 classic Stairway To | :07:11. | :07:11. | |
Heaven. A judge in the United States has | :07:12. | :07:16. | |
told rock band Led Zeppelin that a jury should decide | :07:17. | :07:19. | |
whether the group stole the opening chords to their 1971 | :07:20. | :07:22. | |
classic Stairway To Heaven. They released the tune in 1971, | :07:23. | :07:24. | |
but it is alleged that they lifted part of the intro from the song | :07:25. | :07:27. | |
Taurus by the American group Spirit which was released | :07:28. | :07:30. | |
four years earlier. A trial has been | :07:31. | :07:31. | |
scheduled for 10th May. That's a summary of the latest BBC | :07:32. | :07:33. | |
News - more at 10:30am. Thank you, and thank you to you for | :07:34. | :07:44. | |
sending in contributions to the various stories today. | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
This e-mail is about the sex industry, particularly the managed | :07:50. | :07:52. | |
area in Leeds that we have had unique access to. The sex industry | :07:53. | :07:56. | |
should be highly regulated and sex workers should be protect that. | :07:57. | :08:01. | |
Unfortunately, simply allowing women to walk the streets is not the | :08:02. | :08:06. | |
answer. This offers few safeguards against violent behaviour. Far | :08:07. | :08:09. | |
better to have, for want of a better word, ruffles, where sex workers | :08:10. | :08:14. | |
have a clean, government regulated environment to conduct their trade, | :08:15. | :08:18. | |
where hygiene standards can be forced and balances can be employed | :08:19. | :08:21. | |
to ensure safety. One text said, I am horrified by | :08:22. | :08:27. | |
your film in Leeds, these women need help, not managed areas, if they | :08:28. | :08:30. | |
want to be treated as everybody else and feel that they are workers, that | :08:31. | :08:34. | |
they should also pay tax on their earnings? Tax is very much in the | :08:35. | :08:39. | |
news, we will talk about that more after the sport. There is a big week | :08:40. | :08:45. | |
of European football. There'll be 53,000 at Manchester | :08:46. | :08:47. | |
City's Etihad Stadium tonight, a club record European crowd | :08:48. | :08:49. | |
for their Champions League quarterfinal against | :08:50. | :08:51. | |
Paris Saint Germain. It's the second leg and it's | :08:52. | :08:52. | |
balanced at 2-2 but those two away goals from the game in Paris last | :08:53. | :08:57. | |
week could be crucial for City. It is a team that is prepared to | :08:58. | :09:11. | |
score goals, prepared to play. We need to try to draw 0-0, if we say | :09:12. | :09:18. | |
that, I think we will lose the game. It is not the way we normally play. | :09:19. | :09:24. | |
You will see the same team that you have seen throughout. | :09:25. | :09:27. | |
Good news for Manchester United and England as their captain | :09:28. | :09:30. | |
Wayne Rooney played for an hour at Old Trafford last night. | :09:31. | :09:32. | |
He's been out for two months, missing a dozen games | :09:33. | :09:35. | |
He turned out for the under 21's and though he had a fairly quiet | :09:36. | :09:39. | |
game, he came through unscathed and may now make his return | :09:40. | :09:42. | |
to the first team in their FA Cup quarterfinal replay against West Ham | :09:43. | :09:45. | |
Some important European qualifiers in women's football. | :09:46. | :09:52. | |
Wales are playing in Kazakhstan this morning. | :09:53. | :09:55. | |
England are in Bosnia Herzegovinia, where a win would take them top | :09:56. | :10:01. | |
They had a bit of a set-back last Friday | :10:02. | :10:05. | |
in Rotherham against Belgium, where their goalkeeper | :10:06. | :10:07. | |
Karen Bardsley had a bit of a shocker. | :10:08. | :10:09. | |
That's how the Belgians took the lead but they got a draw | :10:10. | :10:12. | |
in the end and there's no issue with Bardsley keeping | :10:13. | :10:14. | |
Change Karen Bardsley? No chance! She has been outstanding for this | :10:15. | :10:26. | |
team, just remember the World Cup, she has played in it twice, she is a | :10:27. | :10:31. | |
superb, world-class goalkeeper, every goalkeeper makes the odd | :10:32. | :10:34. | |
mistake, she has bailed us out many times, we will give her that one, I | :10:35. | :10:39. | |
am sure on Tuesday she will be backfiring for England. | :10:40. | :10:40. | |
The British Olympic swimming trials are just beginning in Glasgow. | :10:41. | :10:43. | |
World Champions Adam Peaty and James Guy are looking | :10:44. | :10:45. | |
to secure a place in Rio - for both it would be | :10:46. | :10:48. | |
Peaty's championships start this morning in the 100 metre | :10:49. | :10:51. | |
breaststroke, and he says he's already looking to inspire the next | :10:52. | :10:54. | |
I want to get the best out of what I can get and, hopefully in 80th time, | :10:55. | :11:04. | |
I can look at and say, this tends will not be beaten for a long time. | :11:05. | :11:11. | |
-- these times will not be. It is about legacy, I want to see nine and | :11:12. | :11:15. | |
ten-year-old swimmer being ahead when they are my age, British | :11:16. | :11:20. | |
swimming to be as strong as it can be. Go back -- I will be back with | :11:21. | :11:24. | |
the headlines in about 20 minutes. An age of greater transparency has | :11:25. | :11:28. | |
arrived when it comes to the tax That's the former Foreign Secretary | :11:29. | :11:31. | |
William Hague's take on the events of the last week which have | :11:32. | :11:35. | |
culminated in leading politicians including | :11:36. | :11:37. | |
the Prime Minister David Cameron, the Chancellor George Osborne, | :11:38. | :11:39. | |
Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon and Mayor | :11:40. | :11:40. | |
of London Boris Johnson publishing -- but not their actual wealth. | :11:41. | :11:58. | |
Downing Street has accused the media of feeding frenzy and misreporting | :11:59. | :12:02. | |
key details. Here is how it unfolded. | :12:03. | :12:25. | |
I have no shares, no offshore trusts, no offshore funds, nothing | :12:26. | :12:28. | |
like that. Samantha and I had a joint account, | :12:29. | :12:46. | |
we owned 5000 unit in the investment trust, which we sold in January 2000 | :12:47. | :12:52. | |
and ten. -- January 20 ten. Well, it has not | :12:53. | :12:57. | |
been a great week. LAUGHTER | :12:58. | :13:01. | |
I know that I should have handled this better, I could have handled | :13:02. | :13:05. | |
this better. I know there are lessons to learn, I will learn them. | :13:06. | :13:11. | |
David Cameron must resign! David Cameron must resign! | :13:12. | :13:29. | |
This is tax planning, where stating career due to behave in a certain | :13:30. | :13:34. | |
way, you follow it and you get a tax benefit. I say, inheritance tax | :13:35. | :13:40. | |
planning, that is planning not avoidance, we need to be careful how | :13:41. | :13:45. | |
we treated. I want to see the papers, I want to see what he has | :13:46. | :13:48. | |
returned as a tax return, we need to know why he put this money overseas | :13:49. | :13:50. | |
in the first place. So this morning we really want | :13:51. | :13:57. | |
to get a snapshot of your views - do you welcome this age | :13:58. | :14:01. | |
of greater transparency? Do you want to know what elected | :14:02. | :14:02. | |
politicians earn, how Does it extend to other people in | :14:03. | :14:05. | |
public life? Should all potential prime ministers | :14:06. | :14:12. | |
and chancellors be expected to publish their tax | :14:13. | :14:14. | |
returns in future? Joining us now, a dozen of you - | :14:15. | :14:16. | |
our viewers - tax expert George Bull Welcome, all. Thank you for joining | :14:17. | :14:30. | |
us. Gary, hello, you are a plumber, you didn't votes last time, are you | :14:31. | :14:34. | |
satisfied with the summaries of the tax returns up the politician so | :14:35. | :14:40. | |
far, do you want more? I would like a bit more, I would just like to see | :14:41. | :14:44. | |
changes, really, in the whole tax thing. I would like to see everyone | :14:45. | :14:50. | |
may be paying a flat rate of tax, say 10%, no matter if you own | :14:51. | :14:56. | |
?200,000 or ?20,000. So you want a major tax reform? Yeah, I think it | :14:57. | :15:03. | |
needs a really big shake-up. Who is satisfied, or who welcomes the | :15:04. | :15:06. | |
summaries of these tax returns being published? I am Rosie Thatcher, I | :15:07. | :15:13. | |
write for the new statesman, I am a Labour voter, I welcome it in this | :15:14. | :15:16. | |
case. I don't think we generally need to know what people pay in tax, | :15:17. | :15:20. | |
I don't necessarily agree with Jeremy Corbyn that journalists | :15:21. | :15:26. | |
should disclose everything. Why? I don't think it is relevant, I think | :15:27. | :15:31. | |
it is relevant the politicians, although it is legal, you can | :15:32. | :15:34. | |
slightly Verdu your taxes. We should be able to follow the money, see | :15:35. | :15:39. | |
where it goes, if it is going to Panama, we should know that. We are | :15:40. | :15:44. | |
all paying taxes, host of the people in this country are happy to | :15:45. | :15:47. | |
contribute but it seems to be one rule for most people, then if you | :15:48. | :15:51. | |
have enough wealth to get into Panama, you can do what you like, I | :15:52. | :15:54. | |
do not think that is fair, until it is cleared up, we should know. | :15:55. | :16:02. | |
You are assuming that everyone who invests in these off-shore places | :16:03. | :16:09. | |
are doing it to cheat and not to pay taxes, but David Cameron and his | :16:10. | :16:12. | |
father have paid all their taxes. They invested in a place where | :16:13. | :16:17. | |
international investors could use it. They would pay their taxes | :16:18. | :16:23. | |
locally rather than in the UK if the investments were in the UK then | :16:24. | :16:27. | |
everyone, wherever they came from would have to pay the tax in the UK | :16:28. | :16:31. | |
and then they would have to pay tax in their own countries of origin so | :16:32. | :16:35. | |
that would mean they pay their taxes twice. In the cas of this particular | :16:36. | :16:41. | |
trust, I understand that people pay their taxes on their dividends. The | :16:42. | :16:45. | |
company does well, the dividends would increase and if the dividends | :16:46. | :16:48. | |
increase there is more tax to the taxpayer. If they make a big capital | :16:49. | :16:54. | |
gains on that investment, you pay your taxes. This is nonsense. Is | :16:55. | :16:59. | |
Julia right? She is more or less right, but the real question picking | :17:00. | :17:03. | |
up from that is where does transparency stop? Yes, I'm George | :17:04. | :17:12. | |
Bull I'm senior tax partner at RSM. I forgot to introduce myself. The | :17:13. | :17:16. | |
key point is coming out. You can't have, I think, a bit of | :17:17. | :17:21. | |
transparency. You either have transparency or you don't so at | :17:22. | :17:24. | |
beginning you were saying, "Hang on, here a list of people who might have | :17:25. | :17:29. | |
to disclose their affairs." If we say, maybe a group of society should | :17:30. | :17:34. | |
disclose their affairs, it is more down to saying, "Why shouldn't | :17:35. | :17:38. | |
everybody?" I am not advocating that, but if we expect a standard of | :17:39. | :17:43. | |
one group of people in a unified society, everybody ought to be | :17:44. | :17:48. | |
adhering to the same standard. Do we expect the same standard from | :17:49. | :17:52. | |
plumbers or journalists, Norman Smith or people who are retired, | :17:53. | :17:56. | |
what do you think, Amanda? I'm Amanda. I work for the local council | :17:57. | :18:03. | |
as a clerk to governing bodies. I'm a floating voter. I don't agree with | :18:04. | :18:08. | |
everything that I've, any of the parties say. Now, as I understand | :18:09. | :18:15. | |
it, the tax burden in places like Panama are very much lower and that | :18:16. | :18:20. | |
is why these, that is why wealthy people move their wealth to these | :18:21. | :18:25. | |
areas and basically... Is that a bad thing? Yes, it is. It is purely to | :18:26. | :18:33. | |
avoid paying taxes at UK rates. Is that right, gorge It is legal, we | :18:34. | :18:38. | |
know that, but if you register a company in Panama and it is based in | :18:39. | :18:45. | |
the Bahamas, it has got to be about reducing your tax burden surely? | :18:46. | :18:48. | |
That's going to be a big factor. You made one point very well which is | :18:49. | :18:51. | |
that international funds might say we want tax to fall out of | :18:52. | :18:56. | |
consideration so that anybody anywhere in the globe can invest and | :18:57. | :18:59. | |
if they do that, they have to account for their own taxes in their | :19:00. | :19:03. | |
own jurisdictions. I think that's where the point is just because you | :19:04. | :19:07. | |
have invested money off-shore, doesn't moon you automatically don't | :19:08. | :19:12. | |
have a liability to declare your tax in the UK and that's where the rub | :19:13. | :19:18. | |
is now. It is much lower. I'm interested in knowing where you want | :19:19. | :19:22. | |
this greater age of transparency to lead to now or if what we have seen | :19:23. | :19:31. | |
over the last few days is enough? George alluded to the fact that | :19:32. | :19:35. | |
there needs to be transparency and I think personally that is very | :19:36. | :19:39. | |
important especially where the Prime Minister is concerned. It is a | :19:40. | :19:42. | |
matter of fact, he was elected to, you know, to carry on that mantle of | :19:43. | :19:46. | |
leadership, to represent all of us and to be accountable for his | :19:47. | :19:50. | |
actions mrps The summary of the tax return is enough for you? Well... | :19:51. | :19:56. | |
What else do you want? For now, I think there should be an independent | :19:57. | :20:01. | |
inquiry to ascertain whether the allegations are true because at the | :20:02. | :20:07. | |
end of the day... It is ridiculous. There were a few tuts around the | :20:08. | :20:13. | |
room. I am a student and I'm a Liberal Democrat. I agree with what | :20:14. | :20:18. | |
Gary was saying, the fact that the lip of the country is believing that | :20:19. | :20:22. | |
even they don't want to pay their full tax bill and all they are | :20:23. | :20:25. | |
trying to do is reduce their tax bill. What Gary was saying, our | :20:26. | :20:28. | |
taxes in this country might be too high, but even the leadership of our | :20:29. | :20:33. | |
country is not going to pay the full bill and I know David Cameron didn't | :20:34. | :20:36. | |
avoid any tax. His bill didn't suffer from it, but it shows a | :20:37. | :20:41. | |
problem. There is a big problem with avoiding tax in this country. It | :20:42. | :20:46. | |
does show. I would agree. I think the focus on David Cameron is | :20:47. | :20:50. | |
needed. Introduce yourself? I'm April. I'm in the process of setting | :20:51. | :20:55. | |
up my own business at the moment and I voted Labour in the last election, | :20:56. | :20:59. | |
but I think that, David Cameron, he is the Prime Minister. He is running | :21:00. | :21:02. | |
our country. He should be setting the example for the rest of us. | :21:03. | :21:06. | |
Norman Smith, is that a realistic expectation that a Prime Minister | :21:07. | :21:10. | |
should have potentially higher moral standards than the rest of us? Well, | :21:11. | :21:15. | |
I think where we are now, it is inconceivable that any party leader | :21:16. | :21:19. | |
in the future could expect not to have to publish their tax returns, | :21:20. | :21:23. | |
the genie is out of the bottle and probably for most people seeking | :21:24. | :21:26. | |
public office now, even though they may have to do it, you can imagine | :21:27. | :21:31. | |
if you're standing to be a local Connellor or local MP, your local | :21:32. | :21:37. | |
paper would say, "Are you going to publish your tax returns?" There is | :21:38. | :21:40. | |
a pressure now where there will be huge demand for people to be | :21:41. | :21:43. | |
transparent and open. The caveat I would sound, I don't have a problem | :21:44. | :21:47. | |
with it, it is great, the more information we have, the better, but | :21:48. | :21:51. | |
I just caution against the idea that somehow we will reach some | :21:52. | :21:55. | |
transparency where everything will be on paper and we can see every dot | :21:56. | :22:02. | |
and comma. I'm going to suggest the better bulwark to ensure we have a | :22:03. | :22:07. | |
transparent and open society is to have a vigorous awkward, difficult | :22:08. | :22:11. | |
media who ask profoundly awkward questions. If you think about the | :22:12. | :22:16. | |
big scandals that have erupted recently, the expenses scandal did | :22:17. | :22:21. | |
not burst into the headlights because sudden by some MP disclosed | :22:22. | :22:25. | |
something, it was because of painstaking journalistic work. | :22:26. | :22:30. | |
Similarly, the Panama scandal did not burst into the public domain | :22:31. | :22:34. | |
because some politician decided they were going to spit it out, again it | :22:35. | :22:39. | |
came through journalistic hard work. It is good, yes we want more | :22:40. | :22:43. | |
transparency, but I don't think there is some Holy Grail that when | :22:44. | :22:48. | |
we get to it, it will give us that transparency and provided we're can | :22:49. | :22:51. | |
have didn't in our media, I think that perhaps is more important in | :22:52. | :22:54. | |
ensuring high levels of transparency. The media is being | :22:55. | :22:58. | |
criticised by Downing Street this morning. Eleanor, you are a | :22:59. | :23:01. | |
Conservative supporter. How much do you think David Cameron's | :23:02. | :23:03. | |
credibility has been damaged in the last week or so if at all? Well, I | :23:04. | :23:07. | |
think with regards to his taxes, he hasn't done anything wrong. He | :23:08. | :23:11. | |
didn't avoid any tax. So... No damage to his credibility at all? I | :23:12. | :23:14. | |
think that the problem with his credibility is the way it was | :23:15. | :23:19. | |
handled. . It is more of a PR disaster than anything to do with | :23:20. | :23:23. | |
his taxes. Sorry to interrupt. I wonder if he is the main asset for, | :23:24. | :23:29. | |
when it comes to the EU referendum vote, the Remain Campaign, is that | :23:30. | :23:32. | |
going to affect the way people vote because of the last week and because | :23:33. | :23:36. | |
of the way he handled it in the last week? I think it might damage | :23:37. | :23:42. | |
because he has seemed uncredible by the way he released five statements | :23:43. | :23:46. | |
each saying something different. It makes him seem slightly untruth | :23:47. | :23:52. | |
worthy. You still trust him? I still trust him because I can see his tax | :23:53. | :23:56. | |
affairs and it must have been hard for him to have his late father | :23:57. | :23:59. | |
criticised over the papers. It is something that no one should have to | :24:00. | :24:03. | |
deal with and it is going to put you on-the-spot and you're not going to | :24:04. | :24:07. | |
know what to do. Ed Miliband's bad got dragged through the papers and | :24:08. | :24:10. | |
Cameron is fine bringing up his mum to tell the Leader of the Opposition | :24:11. | :24:14. | |
to do up his tie, but when it comes to an important issue like a huge | :24:15. | :24:17. | |
amount of capital, no it is a private matter. It is more difficult | :24:18. | :24:21. | |
for the British people because we are told we need to live within our | :24:22. | :24:24. | |
means and there is bad austerity and we see our leadership trying to find | :24:25. | :24:29. | |
ways to avoid their tax bill. He didn't avoid tax, that's the point. | :24:30. | :24:36. | |
He would have paid a higher rate of tax in all his money is in the UK. | :24:37. | :24:43. | |
There is large amounts of wealth that are being kept from people. | :24:44. | :24:45. | |
This is a country in a time of austerity. I understand him wanting | :24:46. | :24:51. | |
to do it in such a way. If you're earning ?150,000 a year, ?200,000 a | :24:52. | :24:57. | |
year, to literaty have nearly 50% of that money gone so to speak, I mean | :24:58. | :25:05. | |
I would be the same. I do agree on some aspects, that you know, when | :25:06. | :25:10. | |
you do have higher tax rates on the top level tax, you are going to get | :25:11. | :25:16. | |
more people trying to avoid that tax, but what would like to see | :25:17. | :25:20. | |
rather than the politicians showing their tax returns is actual action | :25:21. | :25:23. | |
because what we have had, we have had inquiries into Amazon and | :25:24. | :25:28. | |
Starbucks and we have given them a good telling off like you're in | :25:29. | :25:31. | |
school, but nothing has actually happened. What do you think? Well, | :25:32. | :25:36. | |
hi Victoria, I am a student in London and I'm a floating voter. So | :25:37. | :25:42. | |
for me, the purpose of politics is all about serving the public and for | :25:43. | :25:49. | |
me David Cameron does need to unveil even more information. What else do | :25:50. | :25:54. | |
you want to know, his absolute wealth or his medical records or his | :25:55. | :25:58. | |
wife's? The word transparency has been thrown around a lot and David | :25:59. | :26:01. | |
Cameron is the face of British politics. So of all the other MPs in | :26:02. | :26:06. | |
Westminster and actually the financial credibility of this | :26:07. | :26:09. | |
country lies in their hands and it is within my right to understand | :26:10. | :26:13. | |
exactly how off-shore devices are being used to evade tax and that's | :26:14. | :26:17. | |
what I think it is, often, but not always. Avoid or evade. He would | :26:18. | :26:24. | |
say... One is legal and the other is illegal. There are lots of things | :26:25. | :26:29. | |
illegal that I don't think we should encourage. David Cameron talked | :26:30. | :26:37. | |
about Jimmy Carrefour being morally law for investing in an illegal tax | :26:38. | :26:43. | |
vehicle. If you can look at the figures on foodbank use and say... | :26:44. | :26:48. | |
You are using the politics of envy. No I'm not using the politics offen | :26:49. | :26:53. | |
ve. We have high foodbank use and there are people going, "I can | :26:54. | :26:56. | |
afford my first home. I better have a second home. More money for me." | :26:57. | :27:01. | |
You don't think people should have the right to earn? They earn a lot | :27:02. | :27:07. | |
of money. Let Eleanor finish the sentence? They are working so hard | :27:08. | :27:11. | |
they are earning their money I'm not saying other people don't work hard, | :27:12. | :27:17. | |
but you can't say, "All you should be able to afford is a house and | :27:18. | :27:23. | |
food." Enough money... That's not what I'm saying. I'm going to pause | :27:24. | :27:28. | |
there. I'm going to pause there. A cull of comments from you watching, | :27:29. | :27:34. | |
Tony has tweeted this, "Conservative MPs argue about internet slash | :27:35. | :27:38. | |
security surveillance of me. If you are innocent, you are nothing to | :27:39. | :27:43. | |
fear. It is the sail for their tax." Michael says, "Anyone paid public | :27:44. | :27:47. | |
money should have to publish their tax return and sthate their share | :27:48. | :27:51. | |
holdings." Freda says, "I don't agree everybody should declare their | :27:52. | :27:55. | |
tax returns, but our politicians should. They are running our country | :27:56. | :28:00. | |
and creating our laws. We need to ensure they are doing everything | :28:01. | :28:08. | |
above board. Journalists etcetera. ." Thank you for those. Keep them | :28:09. | :28:10. | |
coming in. Still to come, we'll bring | :28:11. | :28:15. | |
you unique access to the part of the UK where women can sell sex | :28:16. | :28:17. | |
in a public place And how does it sit | :28:18. | :28:20. | |
with the local community? We speak to a sex worker later | :28:21. | :28:24. | |
in the hour. We can talk to the mother who let | :28:25. | :28:36. | |
five strangers breastfeed her son while she was in hospital. | :28:37. | :28:42. | |
The mother from Cornwall was rushed to hospital and given morphine | :28:43. | :28:45. | |
for pain following complications with an ovarian cyst. | :28:46. | :28:46. | |
It left her unable to feed her 11-month-old son. | :28:47. | :28:49. | |
When baby Rio refused to take a bottle or cup, | :28:50. | :28:51. | |
his mum posted a plea on Facebook asking for help. | :28:52. | :28:53. | |
Within hours no less than one thousand women volunteered | :28:54. | :28:56. | |
to breastfeed Rio while his mum was on the mend. | :28:57. | :28:58. | |
Hello. How are you? I'm good, thank you. How is Rio? I think he is a bit | :28:59. | :29:06. | |
overwhelmed by everything. He is tired. He is not used to all this, | :29:07. | :29:11. | |
but he is taking it in his stride. Well, he looks bonny and healthy | :29:12. | :29:16. | |
which is something. Tell us about your motivation for your Facebook | :29:17. | :29:27. | |
appeal? A lot of women, sorry... I was on the group for a while and | :29:28. | :29:33. | |
there is women supporting each other and it was at a time when I thought | :29:34. | :29:36. | |
this is my time when I'm going to need those women to support me. I | :29:37. | :29:40. | |
called for them to help really. I'm grateful they did. What about those | :29:41. | :29:48. | |
who think it is strange or odd that complete strangers you have invited | :29:49. | :29:51. | |
into your home effectively to breastfeed your little boy? They are | :29:52. | :30:05. | |
welcome to their opinions on it. I'm not going to shove it down | :30:06. | :30:09. | |
people's throats. Breast-feeding works for my family. Our audience | :30:10. | :30:13. | |
have been seeing pictures of the women who volunteered, there were | :30:14. | :30:16. | |
five. How many did offer themselves so to speak? | :30:17. | :30:22. | |
Thousands of women from across the country, as far as Scotland, but | :30:23. | :30:29. | |
obviously they were too far. In the end, it was five amazing women. And | :30:30. | :30:36. | |
how much did that help you and Rio? It helped immensely, I could not | :30:37. | :30:40. | |
have done it without women at all. It is really down to them that Rio | :30:41. | :30:46. | |
is still happy and healthy now, he could have deteriorated to a state | :30:47. | :30:49. | |
where he would have been an hospital himself, he would have been | :30:50. | :30:53. | |
dehydrated. How are you now? Getting there, I still have bruised hands | :30:54. | :31:03. | |
from the IVs and so on. Thank you for talking to us, all the best to | :31:04. | :31:13. | |
Rio as well. Goodbye! Still to come, and please begin investigating the | :31:14. | :31:17. | |
way the RSPCA handles animal cruelty cases and whether their powers are | :31:18. | :31:21. | |
too great. We will talk to one of the MPs leading Latin Priory. -- | :31:22. | :31:25. | |
leading that inquiry. Here's Ben in the BBC Newsroom | :31:26. | :31:29. | |
with a summary of today's news. Downing Street has accused the media | :31:30. | :31:33. | |
of fuelling a frenzy over the controversy surrounding | :31:34. | :31:36. | |
David Cameron's tax affairs. Sources at Number Ten admit that | :31:37. | :31:38. | |
mistakes were made over the handling of the row - | :31:39. | :31:40. | |
but have criticised the media for what the sources | :31:41. | :31:42. | |
say was misreporting of the Prime Minister's | :31:43. | :31:44. | |
tax arrangements. Mr Cameron said yesterday his | :31:45. | :31:46. | |
father's reputation had been MPs will hold an emergency debate | :31:47. | :31:48. | |
on Britain's steel industry later, after Labour warned its future | :31:49. | :31:55. | |
was hanging by a thread. Yesterday Tata steel announced it | :31:56. | :31:58. | |
had reached a deal with a British investment firm that could save more | :31:59. | :32:01. | |
than 4,000 jobs in Scunthorpe, The Government said it | :32:02. | :32:04. | |
would consider co-investing with any buyer who comes | :32:05. | :32:10. | |
forward to try to keep Figures released in the last half | :32:11. | :32:12. | |
hour show inflation is rising. The rate at which prices | :32:13. | :32:19. | |
are going up - the CPI - rose to 0.5% last month, | :32:20. | :32:21. | |
up from 0.3% in February. Most of the increase | :32:22. | :32:28. | |
was down to higher airfares New guidelines on cosmetic surgery | :32:29. | :32:30. | |
will come into force in June, to try to put an end to botched | :32:31. | :32:37. | |
and unethical procedures. Doctors will no longer be able to do | :32:38. | :32:41. | |
two for one offers on surgery, and will have to fully explain | :32:42. | :32:44. | |
the risks of the It's aimed at helping patients | :32:45. | :32:47. | |
identify doctors who have had The new guidance should reassure | :32:48. | :32:53. | |
the public that cosmetic procedures will be safer in the future, | :32:54. | :32:59. | |
because they will know the pros and cons and they can be reassured | :33:00. | :33:02. | |
that the person they met and who discussed it with them | :33:03. | :33:05. | |
will undertake the procedure. This programme has been given | :33:06. | :33:11. | |
special access to an area of Leeds that's become the first place | :33:12. | :33:14. | |
in the UK where women are permitted Known as the managed approach, | :33:15. | :33:17. | |
it was introduced in an effort Sex workers can sell their services | :33:18. | :33:22. | |
between seven at night and seven in the morning in a specific area | :33:23. | :33:28. | |
without being stopped by police. The Duke and Duchess | :33:29. | :33:37. | |
of Cambridge have met the Indian Prime Minister | :33:38. | :33:39. | |
on the third day of The informal meeting | :33:40. | :33:41. | |
with Narendra Modi took place in New Delhi in a former royal | :33:42. | :33:44. | |
residence of the Maharajas. The Duke and Duchess | :33:45. | :33:47. | |
are on a seven-day tour of India and neighbouring Bhutan, | :33:48. | :33:49. | |
their first visit to both countries. That's a summary of the latest | :33:50. | :33:55. | |
news, join me for BBC Some breaking news with Ollie | :33:56. | :34:09. | |
Foster. This has just broken in the last few | :34:10. | :34:13. | |
minutes, the England batsmen James Taylor has been forced to retire | :34:14. | :34:19. | |
because of a serious heart condition. The 26-year-old will have | :34:20. | :34:24. | |
an operation in the coming days after scans revealed the condition. | :34:25. | :34:29. | |
He had to pull out of the match last week, they thought he had a virus. | :34:30. | :34:34. | |
He played for the test team in South Africa over the winter, he played | :34:35. | :34:40. | |
five. There has been a lot of reaction. Freddie Flintoff has said | :34:41. | :34:43. | |
he is gutted, James Taylor himself has said, it's fair to say that this | :34:44. | :34:49. | |
has been the toughest week of my life. My world is upside down, he | :34:50. | :34:55. | |
says. But he has put a hashtag life is too short, I will keep batting | :34:56. | :34:59. | |
on. We will have a lot more reaction to this, the Nottinghamshire and | :35:00. | :35:06. | |
England batsmen, at the age of just 26, James Taylor, being forced to | :35:07. | :35:12. | |
retire. A very similar one to the one that Fabrice Muamba suffered | :35:13. | :35:24. | |
from and collapsed on the pitch. He is being forced retire at just 26. | :35:25. | :35:28. | |
We will have a lot more reaction to this on BBC News throughout the rest | :35:29. | :35:31. | |
of the day. MPs begin investigating today | :35:32. | :35:33. | |
the way the RSPCA handles animal abuse cases and whether their powers | :35:34. | :35:36. | |
are too great. The charity has come in for some | :35:37. | :35:38. | |
strong criticism recently over Our reporter Jim Reed, | :35:39. | :35:40. | |
who last year revealed this new investigation, | :35:41. | :35:44. | |
has the details. Half the households | :35:45. | :35:48. | |
in the UK own animals. But the RSPCA alone | :35:49. | :35:51. | |
investigates 150,000 complaints That is more than 400 suspected | :35:52. | :35:58. | |
cases every single day. Now, an influential group of MPs | :35:59. | :36:07. | |
is going to look into the law around animal abuse and whether the right | :36:08. | :36:11. | |
people are being taken to court. In criminal cases this is normally | :36:12. | :36:17. | |
what happens: the police investigate and evidence is passed | :36:18. | :36:23. | |
to an independent body, generally They decide if it is in the public | :36:24. | :36:25. | |
interest to prosecute In animal abuse cases | :36:26. | :36:32. | |
is does not work like that. Instead, it is RSPCA inspectors | :36:33. | :36:39. | |
who investigate, then RSPCA prosecutors who take it | :36:40. | :36:41. | |
through the court system, Critics say the right checks | :36:42. | :36:45. | |
and balances are not in place and that can lead to the wrong | :36:46. | :36:50. | |
people being taken to court. You have to remember it is only | :36:51. | :36:54. | |
in England and Wales where the RSPCA had this power to prosecute and make | :36:55. | :36:58. | |
decisions whether people In Scotland and Northern Ireland | :36:59. | :37:00. | |
they don't have that power. The danger is, their campaigning | :37:01. | :37:08. | |
interest is going to affect The charity's critics say some pet | :37:09. | :37:10. | |
owners have been taken to court when they should have | :37:11. | :37:19. | |
been helped instead. This is Ziggy with her | :37:20. | :37:22. | |
owner Julie last year. Police broke her door down | :37:23. | :37:25. | |
to take her cat on the She was prosecuted by the charity | :37:26. | :37:28. | |
for neglect after refusing After a two-year fight the charges | :37:29. | :37:32. | |
against her were dropped. The cat was returned and went | :37:33. | :37:39. | |
on to live for many more years. And this is Claude, | :37:40. | :37:45. | |
owned by the Byrnes He was put down by the RSPCA | :37:46. | :37:47. | |
and the family taken to court for neglect, | :37:48. | :37:52. | |
before, again, the charges My daughter came across a Facebook | :37:53. | :37:54. | |
page saying things which are not repeatable, about me | :37:55. | :38:05. | |
and the family in general. We aspire and claim to be, | :38:06. | :38:13. | |
and we are, a nation No one would ever want to be | :38:14. | :38:16. | |
associated with animal cruelty. The RSPCA has just gone | :38:17. | :38:23. | |
through an independent review of the way it deals with cases | :38:24. | :38:25. | |
like this, and it has made changes. It won't now prosecute hunting | :38:26. | :38:28. | |
cases, for example. If it is forced to stop | :38:29. | :38:33. | |
its own prosecutions, it would be a huge blow | :38:34. | :38:56. | |
to the charity, and it would also raise serious questions about how | :38:57. | :38:59. | |
we are going to deal with cases of animal abuse in the future | :39:00. | :39:02. | |
and whether the government and ultimately the taxpayer | :39:03. | :39:05. | |
is prepared to pay for it all. Neil Parish is the chairman | :39:06. | :39:13. | |
of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Select Committee | :39:14. | :39:15. | |
which will be examining whether the charity should be | :39:16. | :39:17. | |
allowed to both investigate and prosecute against | :39:18. | :39:19. | |
cases of animal cruelty. Thank you for coming on the | :39:20. | :39:30. | |
programme. What is wrong with the current model? We are taking the | :39:31. | :39:36. | |
2006 Animal Welfare Act and taking evidence from academics, we will | :39:37. | :39:42. | |
take evidence from the RSPCA, the Battersea Dogs Home, the Blue Cross | :39:43. | :39:46. | |
and others, we will have six sessions of investigations. In many | :39:47. | :39:54. | |
cases the RSPCA do shop, in others they have not. It is not just about | :39:55. | :39:59. | |
the PCA, it is looking at Scotland, across the four nations of written. | :40:00. | :40:06. | |
The idea of a select committee is to investigate, take evidence and come | :40:07. | :40:09. | |
forward with strong recommendations for Government. If you are | :40:10. | :40:14. | |
investigating, that implies there is something wrong with the current | :40:15. | :40:19. | |
model? After ten years of the Animal Welfare Act I think it is time to | :40:20. | :40:23. | |
look at it again, it is not just the RSPCA and sites, it is how we deal | :40:24. | :40:27. | |
with animal welfare generally, will look at the treat the top horses and | :40:28. | :40:33. | |
we will look at other aspects of animal welfare in the future -- we | :40:34. | :40:36. | |
will look at the treatment of horses. We are looking at cat as | :40:37. | :40:41. | |
well as dogs, sale on the Internet of puppies coming into the country | :40:42. | :40:45. | |
which are probably been traded across Europe, who do not have their | :40:46. | :40:49. | |
mothers with them or are not being properly socialised, lots of issues. | :40:50. | :40:54. | |
It is not just prosecution. Should we be doing more at stopping white | :40:55. | :40:58. | |
vans coming to the Borders, lots of issues to investigate? The RSPCA is | :40:59. | :41:05. | |
opposed to any plans to relax the ban on fox hunting, there are | :41:06. | :41:08. | |
suggestions from blues... Some quarters that the review has been | :41:09. | :41:16. | |
influenced by the pro-hunting lobby. What do you say? I plead not guilty | :41:17. | :41:20. | |
on that, the issue is looking at the Animal Welfare Act. Most RSPCA | :41:21. | :41:27. | |
inspectors do a great job, occasionally get it wrong, perhaps | :41:28. | :41:30. | |
need other training, I don't know, we might need to look at how they do | :41:31. | :41:35. | |
the enforcement, I am not here to knock the RSPCA, we are looking to | :41:36. | :41:40. | |
see whether we can do it better, is there a more foolproof process? It | :41:41. | :41:46. | |
is not a witch hunt against the RSPCA, I promise you. The | :41:47. | :41:51. | |
organisation points out that their private prosecutions save the | :41:52. | :41:59. | |
Government ?50 million a year. That leads some to believe... That is | :42:00. | :42:05. | |
really useful for the Government, the RSPCA is paying for it? Our role | :42:06. | :42:10. | |
as a select committee is not to spend money or to save it, we will | :42:11. | :42:15. | |
look at the whole piece, if we think the Government should step up to the | :42:16. | :42:22. | |
plate, we will do so. But if it can be done better and made foolproof, | :42:23. | :42:27. | |
let's keep on matter. I am not opening or closing my mind of | :42:28. | :42:31. | |
anything, the whole idea is to take the evidence, we have had 250 | :42:32. | :42:35. | |
submissions of written evidence already, huge public interest and we | :42:36. | :42:42. | |
will be very interested with the expert witnesses to come to what I | :42:43. | :42:46. | |
hope will be a good conclusion that we present to Parliament and to | :42:47. | :42:50. | |
Government. Things might not change at all, particularly with the RSPCA. | :42:51. | :42:57. | |
The Green MP Caroline Lucas says they have a prosecution success rate | :42:58. | :43:02. | |
of 98%, compared with a 50% success rate up the Crown Prosecution | :43:03. | :43:07. | |
Service. But it may not, we will be looking at the way the Scottish | :43:08. | :43:11. | |
RSPCA work, they have different systems which, in some cases, have | :43:12. | :43:17. | |
worked better. Can we use all the systems in all the four nations and | :43:18. | :43:21. | |
come up with something slightly better? That is what I am keen to do | :43:22. | :43:25. | |
that. We do not go in with preconceived ideas, the whole aspect | :43:26. | :43:29. | |
of this is to get better animal was there. 90 or 95% of the population | :43:30. | :43:37. | |
treat their animals very well, 5% don't. Some people profit from the | :43:38. | :43:41. | |
sale of puppies who are traumatised because they have been taken away | :43:42. | :43:45. | |
from their mothers too quickly, all these sorts of things I want to iron | :43:46. | :43:50. | |
out. We have better animal welfare, hopefully, by the time we finish | :43:51. | :43:55. | |
this. You would probably expect me to ask if you are planning on | :43:56. | :44:00. | |
publishing your tax returns, or a summary? I will wait for Parliament, | :44:01. | :44:06. | |
when they ask me, I will do it. What if your constituents ask you? I will | :44:07. | :44:12. | |
wait to see the format. I have no money offshore, nothing to hide. A | :44:13. | :44:16. | |
bit like all the problems that David Cameron has had with his family, I | :44:17. | :44:21. | |
was a farmer before I came to Parliament, I have assets I built up | :44:22. | :44:27. | |
through 30 years of farming, I am not 100% convinced why everybody has | :44:28. | :44:31. | |
to troll over every aspect of my background, but I have nothing to | :44:32. | :44:35. | |
hide, if I need to publish them I will, but at this moment I am not | :44:36. | :44:40. | |
offering. Thank you, Neil Parish, Conservative chairman of the | :44:41. | :44:43. | |
environment, food and rule affairs committee. | :44:44. | :44:45. | |
This morning, unique access to a suburb in Leeds which has | :44:46. | :44:47. | |
become the first place in the UK where it's permitted for women | :44:48. | :44:50. | |
The managed approach was introduced six months ago to try | :44:51. | :44:54. | |
Local authorities say it's also made it safer, but a 21-year-old woman | :44:55. | :44:58. | |
from Poland has been killed since the zone was established. | :44:59. | :45:02. | |
A 24-year-old man has been charged with her murder. | :45:03. | :45:05. | |
We've spent a night there to find out how it is working. | :45:06. | :45:08. | |
Here's a short extract from our full film we played you just after 9am. | :45:09. | :45:16. | |
It's a Tuesday night in Leeds and Chelsea, | :45:17. | :45:19. | |
whose name we've changed, is out on the street. | :45:20. | :45:22. | |
She has been a sex worker for five years. | :45:23. | :45:25. | |
I was badly beaten and raped when I was pregnant. | :45:26. | :45:28. | |
It happened on the back street down there. | :45:29. | :45:37. | |
We're in Leeds' managed area, the only official scheme | :45:38. | :45:42. | |
in the country which allows sex workers to walk the streets | :45:43. | :45:44. | |
It's a programme intended to build trust between the authorities | :45:45. | :45:52. | |
and the women who work here and stop attacks like Chelsea's. | :45:53. | :45:56. | |
Since October, between 7am and 7pm, the women can be out looking | :45:57. | :45:59. | |
for customers on a specific network of roads in the Holbeck | :46:00. | :46:01. | |
Women working outside the zone can be arrested. | :46:02. | :46:11. | |
But it has been controversial and a review this month may | :46:12. | :46:14. | |
Business owners like Greg Adams feel they have been ignored. | :46:15. | :46:19. | |
They will eye you up, not particularly offensive, | :46:20. | :46:21. | |
but what is offensive is the debris that's left behind | :46:22. | :46:25. | |
from their activities which is used condoms, | :46:26. | :46:33. | |
Alongside the authorities charities like Basis work | :46:34. | :46:36. | |
We drive around in the managed area and outside of it as well actually | :46:37. | :46:45. | |
to see if there is any women working and we can offer them | :46:46. | :46:48. | |
We arrive at the spot where a Polish sex worker was attacked | :46:49. | :46:52. | |
A murder like this might tell people that having a managed | :46:53. | :47:00. | |
That's right, it's not completely safe, but it is definitely safer. | :47:01. | :47:11. | |
People were coming forward like, girls were coming forward, | :47:12. | :47:13. | |
Can I ask how many men you met this evening? | :47:14. | :47:24. | |
Sp have you played by the rules of the managed area? | :47:25. | :47:32. | |
I do, but a car just dropped me off down there, so I have | :47:33. | :47:35. | |
No because you're meant to be discreet. | :47:36. | :47:39. | |
What would you do if they got rid of it as a result? | :47:40. | :47:42. | |
I would just go back to the same place, the same thing won't it, | :47:43. | :47:46. | |
like back to Home Office cautions and back to being locked up. | :47:47. | :47:49. | |
Women like Chelsea would still be on these streets | :47:50. | :47:55. | |
with or without the permission of the authorities, but the impact | :47:56. | :47:58. | |
some feel the managed approach has had on this area's reputation may | :47:59. | :48:05. | |
Protection or prosecution, it is a choice which Leeds | :48:06. | :48:14. | |
We can talk now live to Jane, it's not her real | :48:15. | :48:22. | |
name, she's also a sex worker in the managed area in Leeds. | :48:23. | :48:25. | |
She's asked us not to reveal her identity. | :48:26. | :48:27. | |
And also to Emily Turner, from Basis, one of the charities | :48:28. | :48:30. | |
We should say that by its very nature this conversation will be | :48:31. | :48:34. | |
frank and sexual and you may not want young children to listen to it. | :48:35. | :48:40. | |
Thank you both for coming on the programme. Jane, what is good for | :48:41. | :48:46. | |
you about working in the managed area? First of all, that area is | :48:47. | :48:51. | |
managed which is the best for me. I mean, we have, you know, a right to | :48:52. | :48:55. | |
be looking for help if we feel in danger. So managed for you, does | :48:56. | :49:03. | |
that mean safe or safer? I mean safer because that kind of job is | :49:04. | :49:08. | |
always, you know, carrying a risk. But because of that area is managed, | :49:09. | :49:13. | |
that risk is lower and lower, you know, every month, every day. | :49:14. | :49:19. | |
You feel safe despite the fact that a young woman was attacked and later | :49:20. | :49:24. | |
died in December? I do. I definitely do. How? How can that be? Well, | :49:25. | :49:29. | |
every woman in this district, you know, we have got a different set of | :49:30. | :49:36. | |
rules and like I said, we can't make it completely safe, but we can make | :49:37. | :49:41. | |
it safer. Like to me, for example, you know, I'm very different from | :49:42. | :49:45. | |
the British woman. I'm not a drug user. I'm not, you know, I don't | :49:46. | :49:51. | |
drink alcohol. So that fact, you know, I have got full control what I | :49:52. | :49:57. | |
have done between 7pm and 7am. Is that without generalising too much, | :49:58. | :50:01. | |
are the foreign sex workers in this managed area, are they like you, | :50:02. | :50:05. | |
they don't drink, they don't take drugs? No. Whereas the British sex | :50:06. | :50:11. | |
workers normally would? Well, not all of them, but I have to say a | :50:12. | :50:15. | |
really high percentage. I mean it doesn't matter that person taking | :50:16. | :50:21. | |
drugs or not, they have to be treated with respect and that stigma | :50:22. | :50:25. | |
which is, you know, linked with that work should be taken off because a | :50:26. | :50:30. | |
stigma is, you know, is just a first step to being violent. Right. To the | :50:31. | :50:35. | |
sex workers. Emily, is this an area that's managed or safe in name only? | :50:36. | :50:41. | |
Not at all. It's an entire managed approach and that means it is not | :50:42. | :50:47. | |
just an area that has been decided where sex workers will be, it has a | :50:48. | :50:52. | |
prostitution liaison officer who built really good trust with the | :50:53. | :50:55. | |
women. There is Leeds Watch vehicles in place. Yet a woman was killed? | :50:56. | :50:59. | |
Yes, that's right, but what happened, you know, it is a risk in | :51:00. | :51:04. | |
all areas of the country and we are all aware of that, but we have to do | :51:05. | :51:07. | |
something to make it different to make it as safe as we possibly can. | :51:08. | :51:13. | |
And so this approach really goes towards that. | :51:14. | :51:18. | |
OK. Tell me Jane about some of your clients, some of the men who come to | :51:19. | :51:21. | |
you for sex. What sort of backgrounds, what sort of people? | :51:22. | :51:26. | |
Well, some of the people they like to think people buying sex on the | :51:27. | :51:32. | |
street, they are scruffy and really dirty and really flity, in reality, | :51:33. | :51:36. | |
you will be surprised how many different people from different | :51:37. | :51:38. | |
backgrounds are buying sex on the street. I can just... What sort of | :51:39. | :51:44. | |
jobs do they do? Well, I can just talk about me. It is really, really | :51:45. | :51:47. | |
different. From just, you know, people who is working in the | :51:48. | :51:51. | |
supermarkets to the people who are really wealthy. The point is, it is | :51:52. | :51:56. | |
a really diverse group of people. Both the buyers and the sellers of | :51:57. | :52:00. | |
sex. It is completely diverse. But everybody still has the same right | :52:01. | :52:05. | |
to safety, protection from the police as everybody else. These | :52:06. | :52:09. | |
people have rights just like everyone. Well, now, the managed | :52:10. | :52:14. | |
area, I can suggest to you that kerb crawlers have rights effectively | :52:15. | :52:17. | |
because they won't be arrested in this safe area? Absolutely, as long | :52:18. | :52:23. | |
as ter not committing any crime... Is it good news for pimps as well | :52:24. | :52:27. | |
then? Pimps don't really exist, but the fact that we have a managed area | :52:28. | :52:31. | |
means that that, the police can really take control. They know where | :52:32. | :52:35. | |
everyone is. They know, they have built relationships with people so | :52:36. | :52:39. | |
they are much more likely to be able to tackle really important crimes | :52:40. | :52:42. | |
like exploitation or trafficking or anything like that. So the managed | :52:43. | :52:46. | |
area goes towards reducing crimes that are really awful like that. | :52:47. | :52:51. | |
Jane, do you feel more comfortable in this managed area, con dabgting | :52:52. | :52:55. | |
the police if you saw -- contacting the police if you saw anti-social | :52:56. | :52:59. | |
behaviour or a bloke that was suspicious in some way? Well, I | :53:00. | :53:04. | |
think I do. I mean, it has been started last summer and it has been | :53:05. | :53:08. | |
a quiet agreement between us and the police. I mean we are more likely to | :53:09. | :53:14. | |
report any crimes, any anti-social behaviours, any, you know, human | :53:15. | :53:17. | |
trafficking because we are already down there and we see that. So it is | :53:18. | :53:22. | |
easier for us... And more likely because presumably you know you're | :53:23. | :53:25. | |
not going to get arrested as well? Yes. This is why. We need to get rid | :53:26. | :53:30. | |
of the stigma attached to this subject so that we can actually | :53:31. | :53:35. | |
really make people safe and it isn't a perfect scheme, but it certainly | :53:36. | :53:38. | |
goes towards doing that. Do you mind me asking, Jane, how much you earn | :53:39. | :53:47. | |
approximately each year? Well, it is between ?60,000 and ?80,000 ?60,000 | :53:48. | :53:54. | |
and ?80,000 a year? Yes. A lot of people are Polish girls are run by | :53:55. | :53:59. | |
the gangsters, all I have to say, it is just a situation because most of | :54:00. | :54:02. | |
the women from abroad who are working on the street, they just do | :54:03. | :54:08. | |
the same like I do. They are supporting their families, you know, | :54:09. | :54:12. | |
they just make, you know, their kids living really good in Britain. There | :54:13. | :54:18. | |
will be people watching who hear you talking about earning between | :54:19. | :54:21. | |
?60,000 and ?80,000 a year who will be thinking tax is a big issue at | :54:22. | :54:25. | |
the moment, why not pay tax on that? Well, if it is going to be legal, it | :54:26. | :54:29. | |
will be highly likely a lot of women would like to pay taxes. If | :54:30. | :54:35. | |
prostitution was legalised you say, of course, you would be happy to pay | :54:36. | :54:39. | |
taxes? Yes, a lot of the people, a lot of the women already pay taxes | :54:40. | :54:46. | |
like I said like entertainments and the stuff like that. Most of them, | :54:47. | :54:50. | |
they are self-employed. Emily, what were you going to say? Just what | :54:51. | :54:56. | |
Jane said. So spot on. Let me read some comments from people listening | :54:57. | :54:59. | |
to you and watching you around the country. Christine says, | :55:00. | :55:04. | |
"Decriminalisation of prostitution is well overdue in the UK. I commend | :55:05. | :55:11. | |
Leeds City Council and the police for taking this approach. As Chelsea | :55:12. | :55:14. | |
stated in your film today, there is always the risk of danger. The death | :55:15. | :55:19. | |
of a young sex worker was a tragedy, but I believe there will be more | :55:20. | :55:23. | |
violence and higher risk to women if Leeds hadn't adopted the managed | :55:24. | :55:28. | |
approach." She just mentioned women being vulnerable. There are women | :55:29. | :55:30. | |
that are vulnerable, but it is really important to say that not all | :55:31. | :55:33. | |
the women are vulnerable. The point is that everybody is entitled to | :55:34. | :55:40. | |
safety. We definitely want to move towards a complete decriminalisation | :55:41. | :55:43. | |
so we can tackle real crime. Why is it important to say that some of the | :55:44. | :55:49. | |
women aren't run vable? It is a really diverse group and Jane is not | :55:50. | :55:53. | |
vulnerable. It is just a mixture and we have to recognise that rather | :55:54. | :55:58. | |
than painting a picture of vulnerable women. Louise on | :55:59. | :56:03. | |
Facebook, "Instead of legalising this, they would be better putting | :56:04. | :56:08. | |
money into offer people like yourself Jane, a way out of it." | :56:09. | :56:12. | |
What do you think about that? Well, I think it is everyone's personal | :56:13. | :56:15. | |
decision. So you want to do this kind of work? It is not like you | :56:16. | :56:23. | |
want to or you have to. At the moment I have to do this, but I | :56:24. | :56:28. | |
can't predict I will do this in the next week the next month or the next | :56:29. | :56:32. | |
year. If Leeds City Council could help you find other work, that would | :56:33. | :56:36. | |
be a better use of their resource and their time, but you are saying | :56:37. | :56:40. | |
at the moment this is fine for you? Yes, we didn't talk only about me, | :56:41. | :56:44. | |
we talk about the rest of the women who is already working so like I | :56:45. | :56:48. | |
said, it is all, you know, personal decision. Right. In my opinion | :56:49. | :56:54. | |
everyone should respect us. Everyone else, life choices. I would like to | :56:55. | :57:00. | |
say, at Basis we work with people who really choose, you know, saying | :57:01. | :57:03. | |
they want to make positive changes or move out of sex work, but we also | :57:04. | :57:08. | |
recognise that women choose sex work and the most important thing is to | :57:09. | :57:12. | |
keep them safe and to look after their sexual health. Does your mum | :57:13. | :57:19. | |
is back in Poland... Your mum? Sorry. I don't want to answer that | :57:20. | :57:25. | |
question. We would like to talk about the managed area. I am | :57:26. | :57:30. | |
wondering if your mum knows what you do? My mum knows. What does she | :57:31. | :57:35. | |
think? It is too personal. Fair enough. How many women work in this | :57:36. | :57:41. | |
managed area then? Not that many. It is a broad mixture. There are a lot | :57:42. | :57:45. | |
of migrant women working in the area and that's a picture across the | :57:46. | :57:48. | |
entire country, that's not something that just Leeds is seeing. Probably | :57:49. | :57:55. | |
around 40 women, but on any one night, usually between ten and 12 | :57:56. | :57:58. | |
women would be out working, something like that. | :57:59. | :58:33. | |
Let BBC Two whisk you away to a world of luxury, | :58:34. | :58:37. | |
boasting an impressive celebrity clientele... | :58:38. | :58:39. | |
I've seen somebody spend over half a million. | :58:40. | :58:43. |