15/10/2016 Scottish National Party Conference

Hello and welcome to our live coverage of the SNP conference in

Glasgow. Delegates have been gathering on the River Clyde over

the past few days, and they are preparing to hear from their leader,

Nicola Sturgeon. I am here at the conference venue to bring you all

the buzz, all the gossip, reaction and analysis from this SNP

conference. After nine years in government, there have been a

variety of protesters on a range of issues, keen to get their points

across. After nine years in government and

that historic third term at Holyrood with a huge contingent at

Westminster, the SNP surge continues, but there is a great deal

of uncertainty in the UK about Brexit, and there is a great deal of

uncertainty about what could happen in Scotland. Our political editor

Brian Taylor is stationed in the exhibitors' hall. The issue of

Brexit and the possibility of that second independence referendum have

really been dominating proceedings, haven't they? They have. There are

some 3000 delegates here and nearly as many nuances and shades of

opinion on the reaction to Brexit. But guess what? They support

independence. They yearn for it. But there are differences, and they are

honourable differences within the party as to the strategy to be

pursued. There is a debate under way just now. You can hear the sound of

spilling. They are debating fishing and membership of the European Union

and even within that, you have a range of opinions one delegate,

Gerry Fisher, says you cannot have independence if you are in the EU.

Others say that is nonsense. You also have a difference of opinion as

to the tactic to be followed. I don't think that will dominate

Nicola Sturgeon's speech today. The bulk of the speech today, given that

she dealt with this issue to a large extent in her opening remarks on

Thursday, will be about the domestic agenda, social care, child care,

education and the economy. Much more from you later, thank you. With me

in the studio for the Jewish and of the programme is Professor John

Curtice of Strathclyde University. -- for the duration of the

programme. We will be getting your analysis, but there is that row

about a second independence referendum and getting another

special deal for Scotland has been the talk of the conference of the

last couple of days. It undoubtedly has. In some respects, Nicola

Sturgeon didn't tell us anything terribly new on Thursday morning

because she had already said when the legislative programme was

unveiled last month that there would be a draft Referendum Bill which

would at some point be published and put up for consultation. Many

commentators interpreted that announcement as an indication that

maybe Nicola Sturgeon's ardour for Indyref2 had cooled somewhat. Maybe

she had seen the opinion polls that suggested that support for

independence remained at around the 47% that it was before Brexit and

that the vote on June the 23rd had not changed anything. But then she

comes to the hall where people ecstatically greeted her and we were

told that the bill would actually appear soon, as in next week. That

gave some impetus to it. Perhaps the more interesting part of her speech

on Thursday morning was what the Scottish Government is also going to

publish, although not next week, which is what it would like to have

in terms of the outcome of the Brexit negotiations with the

European Union so far as Scotland is concerned. This is partly about

trying to push the UK Government away from what is becoming known as

hard Brexit, but it is also about saying, we think there might be ways

in which Scotland might be able to have a different relationship with

the European Union even though it still might be part of the UK that

is outside the European Union than is the case for England and Wales.

We began to get some idea of what they were thinking, but we will get

a publication that tells us what Nicola Sturgeon wants to achieve

with the Brexit negotiations before she might be minded to hold that

referendum. On the first day of conference, Brian caught up with the

First Minister for his usual web chat. The full interview is still on

our website, but we have picked up some clips. We began with a question

from David. He is unhappy about paying more income tax than in any

other part of the UK. We have taken a reasonable approach to income tax

and we put forward our proposals in the Scottish election and we won

that election convincingly. The Scottish parliament will have power

over income tax, so it is right that the government takes the decisions

we think are right. The SNP government doesn't propose to raise

the level of income tax, but we have said we will not cut income tax in

the form of increasing the higher rate threshold where the Tory

government plans to do. Why do we think that is wrong? Because at a

time when public finances are constrained, when we are seeking to

invest as much as we can in health and education, cutting the tax for

some of the highest-paid people in our country, we don't think is the

right thing do. But we are not putting tax up for anybody. The

Scottish economy is not exactly doing wonderfully. It grew by 0.4%

in the second quarter of this year, before the Brexit vote. At that

time, it was 0.7% elsewhere. Don't you think you need to stimulate the

economy, and a tax rise does not do that? We are not increasing tax. If

you pay the higher rate in Scotland just now, you are not going to pay

more. Because the threshold is going to rise in line with inflation, you

will actually pay less in income tax than you do right now, so your tax

bill is not going up. We are just not going to cut it substantially.

We had this debate at length during the election. If you are a taxpayer

in Scotland, your children get free university education. Two elderly

relatives get free personal care if they have to go into a nursing home

and you don't pay for your subscription, so I think the balance

of advantage if you live in Scotland is good compared to if you live in

England. But all of these decisions have to be balanced and that is the

responsibility of the government. An old favourite here, fracking. Sally

from West Dunbartonshire says a key degree of satisfaction comes from

your job and you are denying a generation this opportunity by

maintaining the ban on fracking, which could be economically

advantageous. Again, this is a sensitive issue. I respect Sally's

opinion. For every person who has exposed that opinion, there are

others saying this would be devastating to the environment and

we should not do it. We have taken a careful approach to this. We have

commissioned a series of impact studies looking at the impact on our

environment, on the economy, on communities, on transport and health

and though studies will be published soon. There will then be a

substantial public consultation and we will take a decision that is

evidence based. Something as controversial as this, that is the

right way to do it. Are you inclined against it? I recognise that there

are lots of real concerns. This is what makes a country like Scotland

different from the United States. If fracking took place in Scotland, it

would take place in the central belt of Scotland, places where people

live. Leslie Scott in Perth says, try and regain the faith in Scotland

lost by scrapping the deeply disliked named person skin. Do you

accept that it has had opposition and difficulties? I certainly accept

that it has had opposition. I would be denying reality otherwise. It is

important to recognise that the Supreme Court did not say the policy

was illegal or that it breached human rights. They said it was a

benign attempt to help protect children. But there was a particular

concern upheld in the Supreme Court around the data sharing aspects of

this. Sir John Swinney, the minister responsible, is looking at that and

as we progress with this policy, which were determined to do because

it is about trying to protect children, but we are determined to

do it in a way that brings people together and addresses concerns.

Let's move to Brexit and independence, hundreds of questions

on this. Bill Ferguson says, what makes you think you can call another

independence referendum when you said you won in 2014 was for a

generation? In 2014, Scotland voted for a UK that was going to be in the

European Union and had, according to many of the people who voted no, a

comic stability and a louder voice in the world. These are the reasons

many who voted no on it so -- economics ability. That UK is not

the one we are facing the prospect of. Because of the Brexit vote, the

UK right now, I think is heading towards a cliff edge and I don't

want Scotland to be taken over that edge. What I said the morning after

the referendum was that I want to examine every option to try to

protect Scotland's interests, because our economy, jobs,

investment and place in the world are on the line. I want to protect

those, so I have setup today in my opening speech to the conference

some very clear intentions of terms of how the SNP will take things

forward. We will vote against the Brexit bill in the House of Commons

because Scotland and over that. We will seek to build a coalition in

the House of Commons to protect the UK. The bill itself is about

repatriating powers, it is the Brexit negotiations you need to get

a handle on. To try to protect the UK against a hard Brexit. Not just

Scotland, but the UK? I would like to see the UK not go over this cliff

edge as well. The UK Government is talking not just about taking the UK

out of the EU, but taking it out of the single market. I don't think

that was what was envisaged in the referendum campaign and it will have

disastrous consequences. I would like to say innit see the UK as a

whole avoid that. If it will not, we will put forward proposals so that

Scotland can avoid that. Colin says, just call the referendum now. You

can set the date later depending on on how Brexit negotiations are

going, but the important thing is to make a definite commitment. I am

trying to do but I think is right for the country. Colin is just an

illustration of this. I get people every day saying hurry up, and I get

others telling me to slow down. Who do you have in mind? Could it be

your predecessor? Not at all, it is several people. There are many

different opinions here. I am not just leader of the SNP, I am the

First Minister of the country and I have to act in a way that is right

for the country, and that is what I am doing. If the trigger for Brexit

is in spring, that means Brexit is two years later. That means 2019 is

Brexit. 2017 is presumably too early to hold a referendum. This is an

awesome attempt to get me to name a date! Give me a break! 2017 is too

early, because you would not know the shape of Brexit. I am being

serious. Is it more likely to be 2018 than 2017? All of what you have

said is fine logic. I am not going to name dates. Where do you think we

are heading, in that case? You are serious about trying to negotiate

with the UK Government? Yes. The first meeting of the committee that

has been established to involve the devolved administrations takes place

in London a week on Monday. I will be with that with Mike Russell, the

minister I have appointed to lead these negotiations. At that point,

we will get a sense of how serious the UK Government is about involving

us and listening to what we say. I repeat what I said in my speech

earlier stopped the ball is in court. I want to find a way that

effectively squares this circle. Scotland didn't vote for this. We

want to stay in the single market, so can we square this circle? I hope

the UK Government will meet me halfway and try to find out. Now,

the SNP's new deputy leader has warned Theresa May her days as Prime

Minister of the UK are numbered if she fails to protect the interests

of Scotland as Brexit approaches. Angus Robertson was of course

elected deputy on Thursday. He also called for EU citizens' writes to be

protected after Brexit, saying the uncertainty was unacceptable.

Theresa May said there would be no opt out from Brexit. That the UK

Government would negotiate the departure from the EU as one United

Kingdom and leave the European Union as one United Kingdom. Ruth

Davidson, the Scottish Tory leader reiterated that Scotland has no veto

over the United Kingdom leaving the EU, despite being told we were an

equal partner in this United Kingdom. It is time now for Theresa

May to prove it. Scotland's membership of the single market...

Of 500 million people is vital to Scotland's interests. With a

significant rural economy retaining access to capped payments matters.

Where the reputation for punching above our weight in research,

ensuring access to competitive research funding and the global

collaborations that flow from it, matter. From a country that must

grow its population to address skills gaps and deal with an ageing

population, and free movement of people matters. All of that is at

risk. It is the people that will pay the price of this in real life in

jobs, investments and living standards and they will suffer as a

result. Take our financial services sector,

Scotland has a distinguished history in banking, that dates back over 300

years. We are one of Europe's leading financial centres. And the

second financial hub in the UK outside of London. 150,000 people in

Scotland are employed in financial services.

The success of this industry which brings big jobs and big revenue to

Scotland relies on the membership of the single market. We cannot allow

it threatened by the reckless behaviour of Theresa May and her

right-wing Tory Government. But there is an alternative... The

alternative conference is economic vandalism. The report by the Frazier

of Allen dish institute, published last week made for spine chilling

reading. The impact of leaving the EU is between 30 and 80,000 Scottish

jobs lost and the GDP being 5% lower. It is clear that the Tories

represent a clear and present danger to Scotland's interests. Theresa May

says that options are keeping Scotland in the EU are impractical.

That we have had our referendum, that there will be a UK approach to

Brexit. She refuses to accept that for Scotland, for us, Remain means,

Remain. CHEERING AND APPLAUSE.

My message to the Prime Minister is this: If you continue to ignore the

expressed will of the people of Scotland, if you refuse to even

consider how to protect Scotland's place in the EU, be in no doubt,

your days as Prime Minister of a United Kingdom are numbered.

CHEERING AND APPLAUSE. So, conference, let our message to

the people of Scotland be this: Whether you alternative vote "yes"

or "no" in 2014, and whether you voted Remain, or whether you voted

Leaf in 2016, we know you want what is best for your, your community,

best for Scotland. And in addressing all of Scotland's people, 100% of

this country, regardless of where you come from, we will put all of

your interests first, that is our promise to you. Thank you very much.

CHEERING AND APPLAUSE. Now, delegates at conference

yesterday overwhelmingly backed a resolution saying Scotland should

prepare for a second independent referendum, if there is no viable

way to safeguard the nation's membership of the European Union.

But not everyone was convinced. Brexit is the greatest political

upheaval in British politics in half a century, it is deepening the

divide in the union. The political weather has changed. But I urge

caution. I urge caution when we look at how to achieve the goal of

independence for our nation. As a europhile like Tony, no-one more

than me would delight with independence in Scotland within the

EU, while it is not terribly popular, I have never held back on

saying what I believe. The next independent referendum we go for

must be one that we are confident to win. When the time is right or the

issue of off the agenda for decades, I offer caution, while aye Plaut the

sentiment of the resolution, independence referendum solely to

the trigger of Brexit remember a few things, a third of SNP members voted

for Brexit. So be mindful how we link the two together and avoid a

rush into holding a vote at a time maybe not of our choosing. I want to

make it clear that the motion is consistent with the position set out

by the First Minister yesterday. SNPs, MPs, would be voting against

Brexit bill, and Alex and Graham, I have sympathies with some of the

arguments you are taking but our options will be left open in

supporting this motion. Conference, I want to share with you my

activities as a Scottish Cabinet Secretary leading on international

relations in Europe, delegates, we were the only one with a plan. And

the leadership shown by Nicola Sturgeon from day one has been

outstandingment I can tell you it has made a big impact across Europe.

Do not underestimate the solidarity given to EU nationals and what it

means across Europe. Yesterday as the First Minister was setting out

our position and opposing the Brexit Bill for more powers to Scotland,

and also for the publication of the independence Referendum Bill, I was

on a stage in Brussels yesterday announcing the very same thing

simultaneous, taking our message to the heart of Europe.

And in recent weeks have I been in Paris, Italy, in Brussels yesterday,

I will be again next week and also in Malta, where we are holding the

European presidency. Scotland did not vote to leave the EU. The UK

vote was not for a hard breaks earth. This country can be

everything it can be but we will do so as an international nation. We

are a national party because we are international. Let's keep our

options open, let's argue for a progressive international position

for Scotland. I want to say why I voted Leave in

the referendum, I am not scared to admit it.

And the Scots that voted Leave amongst 17 million others, excuse me

if I don't feel overwhelmed by putting David Cameron out of Downing

Street. I don't think that the motion considers properly what our

relationship with the EU and Europe is in any shape or form.

It ignore totally our relationship with the rest of the UK in trading

terms, therefore it does not address the economic risks of disrupting our

relationship are the rest of the UK in order to pursue our relationship

with a smaller, effective export market in the rest of the Europe. So

let's try and understand and re-examine what our relationship

with the EU should be before we hang it round the success or otherwise of

a second independence referendum. I move the remit back.

I want to tell Theresa May now that Remain means Remain! I don't want to

wait two months or three months down the line to give the reassurance to

170,000 EU nationals in this country. That reassurance that they

are waiting for, that this party, that this country stands by them! So

I appreciate that some people might not like some of the wording and

perhaps it is not strong enough in places but this is an opportunity,

we cannot miss an opportunity. Not at a time when the bargaining will

begin in Brussels and in London. We have to make our position clear.

That Scotland will no longer be sidelined, an afterthought on

Westminster's agenda. We move to the resolution. Can I see

cards in favour of the resolution. Can I see cards against the

resolution. The resolution is passed overwhelmingly.

CHEERING AND APPLAUSE. Well, a flavour of conference there.

Now back to the exhibitor's hall where Brian is standing by with a

guest. Thank you very much. The Scotland

Brexit minister, I suppose we could call it that, Mike Russell, let's

take the debate. The resolution carried linking a possible

independence referendum if there is a failure in Brexit, yet the

parties, there are elements of the party understandably concerned? We

are not at that stage yet. We are looking at the options. Nicola

Sturgeon is right to say that we must be prepared for the options, so

publishing a Referendum Bill is sensible. So is increasing trade and

our diplomatic presence in Europe to be heard directly. But my job is to

look at the various options, that is the work being done with the counsel

of experts. But there will be a moment when we have to say this is

what we want, that is when we start the searings negotiation of moving

forward. The First Minister talked about

vansing proposals to the UK to contribute to the Brexit negotiation

process, obviously you have to work them up. What is the indication of

where it is going? Is it about maintaining single market membership

or access? They are underpinned by the principles which are varied.

There is one that says we need access to the single market,

involvement and the four freedoms for people, goods, capitals and

services. We have to protect and to ensure that our devolved interests

are protected, the areas that we have exclusive responsibility but

also the four freedoms impinge on them. So we look at what we need and

use them to underpin what to ask. Is that what you are describing,

membership of the European Union? We have Donald Tusk saying either leave

or stay, you don't get a halfway house. If not prepared to grant a

halfway house to the UK, why to Scotland? There are cases in Europe

where there are relations in Europe and sub-state bodies with special

elements. It is important that the elements are part of our discussion.

Europe recognises, we know that it recognises that Scotland wants to

maintain its relationship. Europe expects us to take the

constitutional steps to do so. Those steps include negotiation with the

Member States, that is what we trying to have but of course it has

not yet started but it must include other options, one of which is

independence. We are doing this rationaly and by the book. The UK is

not. You have talks on Monday with the UK

ministers, is the structure there as to how the consultation with

Scotland will go? Not yet. It must be in place, without a negotiating

structure, there cab no negotiations.

When there is a negotiation, we must publish a clear position. Your

country is observing this, like the Japanese are seeing there must be

transparency, not secrecy and as it goes forward we must come to a

rational judgment about the best solution for Scotland. That is what

the Scottish Parliament asked the Government to do in June, that is

the process we are engaged in. Let's take the two sides. The

Scottish side, are you setting up the demands to fail? Is it

Trotskyism? No. You are the first to call me that, I

have to say. You must be genuine and serious in the negotiations. I am. I

want to discuss the details. I want to discuss them face to face

with the people responsible and to see if we can come to a deal. But it

is also right to say yes to get the best for Scotland. So the bottom

line is I will not accept, or Scotland will not accept second

best. The bottom line is the single

market? It is a key issue. It must be put together with other things.

Freedom of movement, 9% of doctors are from EEU countries. Freedom of

movement is essential for thetowned operation for many of our public

services. Ewant walk away from it. The UK Government wants to restrain

freedom of movement? And the rest of Europe looking at the UK thinks this

isness. In reality freedom of movement is better for the UK.

It is a tension that will exist in the negotiations. The issue of

migration is not so important for Scotland, it should not be the

dominant issue in the negotiations but in some parts of the Tory Party

it has become an obsession. So from a UK perspective, are we treating

the Scottish pitch seriously and gravely or do they regard you as a

nuisance when trying to negotiate the deal as a whole out of Europe? I

cannot speak for the UK Government but I advise the UK Government to

treat the Scottish pitch with the utmost seriousness. The Prime

Minister promised Scotland to be fully engaged with and involved in

the negotiations. That was a promise. They should honour the

promise and listen to this. It may be helpful to them considering the

mess that they are in. And inclusions for the UK and Brexit

considerations, those are the tests against which to measure whether

Scotland's interests are granted or not? The First Minister laid out

economic, democratic, social protection, solidarity and

influence, we have tests, businesses have tests, communities have test,

we all know what we want, now we must put together a negotiation to

try to get it. Mike Russell, thank you very much

for joining us, back to the studio. We are hearing from the First

Minister in 15 minute's time. Her live speech in the conference hall

John Curtis is with me. There has been an accusation that

the Scottish Government is setting this up to fail so that they can go

full steam ahead towards the referendum, but Mike Russell says he

wants to negotiate and get a special deal. Well, it sounds as though

Nicola Sturgeon and Mike Russell are indeed saying, actually, we are

going to lay out a set of demands and preferences for our future

relationship with the European Union and if those are not met, the

implication is that -- if those conditions are met, the implication

is that there will not be a second independence referendum. But by

suggesting that there could be an independence referendum and knowing

that Theresa May does want to keep the UK together, this is not so much

a promise as a threat innocence. It is saying, if we don't get what we

want, it is possible that you will lose Scotland and the United

Kingdom. At the moment, this is not so much a government committing

itself to referendum is wanting to send a message to London that there

could be a referendum. But is the first point to make. The second

point is that it sounds from what Nicola Sturgeon said on Thursday

that they are looking for the UK Government to go for a much softer

form of Brexit than it appears that the UK Government wants to go for.

That is clearly going to be relatively difficult for the

Scottish Government to pursue. The more interesting aspect is the

suggestion that by devolving certain powers to the Scottish Parliament

that are currently still reserved for Westminster, it might be

possible for Scotland to have a closer relationship with the

European Union than the rest of the UK, even though Scotland is still

part of the UK. Two things have come up. The first is the idea of

devolving some responsibility for immigration, which might make it

possible for Scotland to have something closer to freedom of

movement than it sounds as though Theresa May wants for the rest of

the UK. The second is the idea that the Scottish Government should now

be given the right, on occasions, to negotiate an international

agreement. At the moment, it has no responsibility for that at all. Then

it may get closer access to the single market. Interestingly, these

are ideas that were floated only earlier this week by a professor

from Glasgow University who of course is a well-known defender of

the Unionist cause. So there is an interesting meeting of minds here,

whereby both those in the Unionist camp and also in the Scottish

Government are seeking ways to put through further devolution. What

looks at the moment like the impossible task of squaring the

circle of allowing the SNP to have something close to what it wants

while at the same time... There is no way at the moment that the UK

Government will accept the freedom of movement provisions of the

European Union as currently constituted. That was the clear

message from the referendum. So the question is whether or not Scotland

can get a variation from that stance that might give it better access to

the single market. John, more from you later. Now, European citizens

who come to Scotland to study at university next year will not have

to pay tuition fees, despite the Brexit vote. It is a one-year

extension of an existing programme. The Education Secretary John Swinney

made the announcement during his keynote speech to conference

yesterday. He also called on the UK Government to guarantee that these

students could remain here post Brexit and that they should be

allowed to work in Scotland after they graduate. In the wake of the EU

referendum result, it was Nicola Sturgeon who stepped up. She laid

out a path for Scotland to follow. While Boris and girls panicked,

Cameron resigned and Corbyn went missing -- while Boris and Michael

Gove panicked. It was Nicola Sturgeon who rejected the xenophobia

of Farage, reassured our EU friends in Scotland and defended our

relationship with Europe. In that moment, there was a crisis of

leadership in London. Here in Scotland, leadership had its finest

hour. That crisis rolls on in Westminster.

Barely a day goes by that the three Brexiteers of Boris, Davis and Folks

do not embarrass the whole of the United Kingdom -- Boris, Davis and

Fox. Theresa is in office, but it is obvious that she is not in power.

She has been driven by the Tory right to a hard Brexit, just a David

Cameron was driven to a referendum by the selfsame hybrid Brexiteers in

the first place. The consequences can barely be contemplated. One

consequence, I will deal with directly today. We as a government

have already confirmed that tuition fee funding to support EU students

studying here or preparing to start here this year. Now we will extend

that go into today's EU students wishing to come to start in Scotland

in the next year in 2017-18. And unlike Labour and the Tories,

that is tuition free education. Free education, not the massive fees

they impose on students wherever they come from. Let me go further.

We will guarantee their funding. What mind is that the Tory Brexit

government guarantees their right to stay here during their studies and

to work here their studies. -- to work here after their studies. These

people are not cards to be played, they are fellow human beings. To use

them as negotiating chips is obscene, and this party and this SNP

government will have none of it. Conference, the Tory Brexit

government's threat to people's right to stay here is just another

part of the hard right agenda now running rampant at Westminster. That

was John Swinney, speaking yesterday. Now, back to Brian in the

conference hall, where he is joined by some delegates. Indeed, John

Swinney was referring to the three Brexiteers, three Musketeers from

the party's grassroots are joining me now. I wonder who that makes me?

Let's skip those references to French history and talk about

contemporary Scottish issues. First of all, you were speaking yesterday.

Are you saying that if the deal is a stinker on Brexit, go for a

referendum automatically? Absolutely. This is about protecting

our national interest. Scotland voted to remain in the European

Union, and that is what we will seek to do because it is in our national

interest. And the only way of doing that is independence, not a halfway

house? Well, the Prime Minister came to Scotland leading to listen but is

now saying the levers that matters -- the only voice that matters is

her own. We need to ensure that Scotland's voice is heard and if

not, we cannot stay in the European Union within the UK. The Prime

Minister will leave us with no choice but to proceed with the

second independence referendum. I accept that all three of you want

independence, but it is about how to bring it about. Do you believe a

deal can be done on Europe? What the First Minister said was clear. The

ball is in the UK Government's court. She will not hesitate to hold

an independence referendum if it is in Scotland's interests, but it is

for Theresa May now. If she wants to listen to Scotland and the SNP and

protect our access to the single market. But would you be concerned

about jumping too quickly to a referendum? As I say, the ball is in

the UK Government's court. It is for them to decide whether to protect

our interests or whether we should move towards another referendum.

Kelly, do you think a referendum is likely? At this point, I think it is

likely, and rightly so. But as the boys have said, the ball is firmly

in Theresa May's court. If she is willing to cooperate with Scotland,

we will see what happens. You are asking essentially for her to allow

Scotland to maintain the impotence is and perhaps the realities of EU

membership when remaining in the UK which is leaving the European Union.

It is about the democratic will of the people. Scotland voted to

remain. We do not want to leave the European Union, and she needs to

respect that. Is there a Scottish mandate? I know you would say their

race, but your opponents would say there were people in Scotland who

were voting on the question of whether the UK should be in the

European Union, not whether Scotland should be. Scotland voted

overwhelmingly, 62% voted to remain. Every part of Scotland voted to

remain. When the people of Scotland voted in 2014 to stay in the UK,

they act wanted to stay in the UK as part of the EU. There is now a clear

mandate for the First Minister to say to Theresa May, what are you

going to do to secure Scotland's place in the European Union? Is it

feasible that a deal could be done within the ambit of the United

Kingdom that would satisfy your aspirations as a member of the SNP?

That is a matter for the UK Government. If they could produce

such a deal, I would be delighted and many Scottish people would be

too. At the same time, the First Minister will not hesitate to hold a

referendum if the UK Government does not listen. What about the argument

that was advanced during the debate which you lead last night, the

argument that there are people who support the SNP, but they might not

devote yes in a referendum on independence if it means going back

into Brussels control because they are not keen on the EU? We have had

that debate, Brian. 62% of Scotland voted to stay in the European Union.

1 million voted to leave. We respect those views. But we also have to

respect the overwhelming view of Scotland, which was to stay in that

single market that protects jobs. Strathclyde University have said

that up to 80,000 jobs could go over the next ten years if we are taken

out of the single market. We can't afford to have 80,000 jobs removed

from Scotland is because the Tories don't want a relationship with

Europe. What about the argument that this is a time of instability as a

result of the Brexit vote, and you are only adding to it by a

referendum on independence? The biggest instability to our economy

is being dragged out of the world's largest single market that provides

thousands of jobs for Scotland. That is the only uncertainty, not created

by the SNP, but created by Tories. Chris, do you expect a referendum,

and if so, why? Well, first and foremost, we will look to protect

Scotland's place in the single market. Could you envisage a

situation in which the Brexit deal goes, from your perspective,

reasonably well, and the First Minister talks the party down again?

Absolutely. The First Minister is governing not in the interests of

the party but in the interests of Scotland. Do you believe that? I do,

and the party would accept that. The same question to you, for the party

accept it if the First Minister had to talk down? Absolutely. The party

have the confidence in Nicola Sturgeon to do the right thing with

Brexit. If that means putting on hold a referendum, that is fine. We

will be ready for a referendum when it comes. We would trust her

judgment on that. There was a standing ovation just at the mention

of the publication of a draft bill. Because there is no secret that we

all want independence. But we are governing for the whole of Scotland

and at this point, not everyone in Scotland is for independence. No

evasion from all three of you - bait for a referendum, which you? Within

the next two. I don't know. If necessary to protect Scotland's

interests. When is for Theresa May to decide. Toni? 2018 is what I

would put my money on, but the ball is in Theresa May's court and it is

about what comes out of those negotiations and it is about making

sure Scotland's voice is heard. If the Prime Minister cannot do that

and she forces us to go ahead for a second independence referendum, that

is what we will do to protect our interests. Thank you all very much.

Back to the studio. Now, we are just waiting to hear from Nicola

Sturgeon, the First Minister, the SNP leader. She's speaking at 3.15.

Professor John Curtice is still with me. John, they were focusing on

Europe there, but actually, Nicola Sturgeon will mention Brexit and

trade deals, but this speech is meant to be about domestic policy.

Six months ago, and the SNP won a Scottish Parliament election and

have a job of running the country for the next five years in front of

them. They have set themselves some pretty big targets, such as trying

to get rid of the attainment gap in education so the kids from poor back

grounds do as well at school as richer kids do. They have

controversial programmes, to discuss, fracking, and the social

ledge slays and we have to bear in mind that this is no longer a

Government that has an overall majority in the Scottish Parliament,

therefore it is actually on occasion to have to negotiate its domestic

policy with the other parties. We have seen it lose a vote over

hospital closures, always a toxic issue, and almost lost another over

the Council Tax, another why where in truth the Scottish Government

face important did Is decisions as to what to do. Meanwhile, we are now

moving into a regime whereby Scotland is going to begin to have

to raise its own re-revenues, that means that the Scottish Government

has important decisions about taxation, especially with income tax

but also, this came out in figures this week, if Scotland's economy

fails to grow as quickly as England's does in the future, the

amount of money that the Scottish Government will have to spend will

begin to go down. And a phrase quoted has shown that actually, the

effect of relatively small discrepancies in English and

Scottish growth could have a big impact on the amount of money that

the Scottish have to spend, so a real imperative to grow Scotland's

economy. So a substantial domestic agenda but also it is a Government

that will have to negotiate with other parties in the Scottish

Parliament, and has some difficult issues. We have to remember while

this is a party for the most part is united on the issue of independence,

it is not on domestic issues. John, thank you very much, let's

cross to the armadillo in Glasgow, where Nicola Sturgeon is taking to

the stage to give her leader's speech.

She is receiving the applause of the delegates there.

Let's listen in now to what she has to say.

In CHEERING AND APPLAUSE.

Delegates, we meet here in the City of Glasgow, five months on from the

Scottish Parliament election. When we gathered back in march we

were preparing to seek election as Scotland's Government for a third

consecutive term. Thanks to your hard work and your campaigning

brilliance, we did just that - we won the election.

APPLAUSE. From the bottom my heart, let me say

this to the people of my country: Thank you for putting your trust in

me as your First Minister, thank you for choosing us to be your

Government. APPLAUSE.

The SECC where we meet today was first opened back in 1985. It has

witnessed quite a few changes in the 30 years since. The biggest change

of all has been in the politics of our country and of this city.

In 1985, a Scottish Parliament seemed like a pipe dream, today it

is the beating heart of our democracy. We no longer question if

we should have a Parliament of our own, instead, we ask if our

Parliament should be independent - we say yes!

CHEERING AND APPLAUSE. In 1958, every constituency in this

city bar one was held by Labour, today the political landscape is

very different. Last year every Westminster constituency in the city

was won by the SNP, this year every Holyrood constituency voted SNP as

well and just last week... Just last week in a council by-election, a

massive 19% swing to the SNP secured victory for our brilliant candidate,

Chris cunningham. APPLAUSE.

We have the chance to complete this political transformation. Glasgow

was once described as the second stiff of the Empire. In the council

elections next May, let's work as hard as with ever have to bring the

SNP to power and then let's build this city as one of the very best in

Europe! Glasgow is is a vivid illustration

of the success of our party. But it also stands as a lesson. Labour lost

because they took the voters for granted, they became arrogant on

power, they thought they were invincible and they rightly paid the

price. So our promise to Glasgow and to all of the people of Scotland is

this: We will never take you for granted. We will work each an every

day to earn and to re-earn your trust.

APPLAUSE. Conference, it's not just attitude

that distinguishes the SNP from Labour it is policy and principle,

too. When Labour held its conference in Liverpool recently, its defence

spokesperson wanted to announce support for the renewal of Trident.

He was enraged at not being allowed to go as far as he wanted in

supporting weapons of mass destruction. Well, we are pretty

angry too. We're angry that with so many children still living in

poverty, we have a Tory Government determined to waste tens of billions

of pounds on a new generation of nuclear weapons.

APPLAUSE. And we're angry at Labour, for

meekly falling into line behind the Tories. Friends, I promise you this,

no-one, no-one will ever have to slip a note to politicians in this

party reminding us to oppose Trident, now and always with the

SNP. It is "no" to Trident, not in our name.

CHEERING AND APPLAUSE. Conference, in the conflicts facing

the world today, nuclear weapons are not the answer. In Syria up to

400,000 men, women and children have been killed since the conflict

started. Over a million have been wounded. No-one can fail to be

profoundly moved and deeply angered by the appalling scenes we are

witnessing in Aleppo. Innocent children are being killed and

wounded with impunity. The barbarism of the Assad regime and the actions

of Russia are sickening. We condemn them unreservedly.

APPLAUSE. We agree with the UN that all

countries must stand up for the millions of Syrians who desperately

need help. And although at times we can feel powerless, we should

remember that communities across Scotland are making a difference to

families fleeing the conflict. Last month the 1,000th Syrian refugee was

welcomed to Scotland, and conference, they are welcome.

APPLAUSE. But we can and we must do more,

especially for children alone without their parents, so I say to

the UK Government today, stop treating this as a migration issue,

it is a humanitarian crisis. We must rise to the challenge.

APPLAUSE. And Scotland is ready and we are

willing to play our part. Friends, it may just be five months

since we won the Holyrood election but in many ways it feels like a

political lifetime. We are in a completely new era. A new political

era and a new battle of ideas. A new era for our Parliament with new

powers and responsibilities and a new era for our relationship with

Europe and the wider world. There are challenges aplenty. As we face

up to them, we must make sure of this, that Scotland always remains

the progressive, internationalist, communitarian country, that the

majority of us living here want it to be at all times.

APPLAUSE. Make no mistake, today we face a

choice of two futures. After last week in Birmingham, there can be no

doubt that choice has never been so stark. The primary contest of ideas

in our country is now between the SNP and the hard right Tories. The

Camerons have fallen to the Faragistas and the Camerons from

never appealing in the first place. Conference, the SNP's vision for

Scotland is welcoming, progressive, open, outward looking and inclusive.

The Tory vision, xenophobic, closed, inward looking, discriminatory,

let's be frank, the Tories are not longer the conservative and the

Unionist Party, after last week we should call them what they are, the

conservative and separatist party or Ukip for short!

APPLAUSE. Display an ingrained hostility to

immigration and offer a stoney heart to refugees.

They treat those with disabilities with suspicion. People seeking

support to get back into employment are humiliated and harrassed. A

mother, unable to find the bus fare to get to a jobcentre appointment is

more likely to face a benefit sanction than she is to be offered a

helping hand. And those from other European countries who have chosen

to make their homes here, human beings with lives, jobs and

families, they're treated as no more than barring beginning chips.

Conference, the Prime Minister's position on EU nationals shames her

and it will be a stain on her Government each and every day that

it is allowed to continue. APPLAUSE.

The fact is with almost every action the Tories take somebody is

excluded, somebody loses out, somebody is left behind. So let us

make it clear that is not our way, it is not who we are, and it is not

who we aspire to be! APPLAUSE.

And what of Labour? It wasn't meant to be a joke... So lost have they

become, that they prefer the prospect of years of continuous Tory

Government at Westminster to self-Government for Scotland it is

inexplicable, I know but I guess branch offices just don't have all

that much in the way of ambition. APPLAUSE.

Friends, Labour may have thrown in the actual but let me make this

pledge today, the SNP will never stand by while a right-wing and

intolerant Tory Government undermines the very fabric of our

society. At Westminster we will continue to

provide the strong opposition that Labour is failing to deliver. In

recent months it hasn't been Labour asking the hard questions about our

place in the single market and the jobs that depend on it, it it's been

our Westminster new Deputy Leader, Angus Robertson.

APPLAUSE. Just as it has been Alison Kelis

making the case against the immorality of denying tax credits to

women unless they can prove they have been raped. And Ian Blackford,

standing against the deportation of the Brain family, or marry black,

standing up for woman denied the pension entitlements they have saved

for all of their working lives -- Mhairi Black. The SNP is not just

the real opposition to the Tories at Westminster. The SNP is the only

effective opposition to the Tories at Westminster. So our job at

Westminster is to provide the strong opposition that is so desperately

needed not just in Scotland, but right across the UK. And our job at

Holyrood is to use our powers to build the better Scotland we all

want to see. Conference, if you remember just one word from my

speech today, I want it to be this one. It begins with an I. Not that

one! Not yet! The word I want you to remember is this - inclusion.

Inclusion is the guiding principle for everything we do. It

encapsulates what we stand for as a party and it describes the kind of

country we want Scotland to be - and inclusive country. A country where

everyone has the opportunity to contribute to a better future and to

sharing the benefits of that better future. A country which works for

those who value the security currently have and for those who

yearn for change. A country where we value people for the contribution

they make, not one where we will ever judge them on their country of

birth or the colour of their passport.

That is the inclusive Scotland we are working to build, and I am proud

of the progress we have made. Earlier this week, a major European

research study reached this conclusion. On health, on education,

tolerance and the environment, out of all the four nations in the UK,

Scotland is top. Of course, I know there is still

much to do in the next phase of Scotland's home-rule journey.

Westminster is still responsible for the majority of funding for our

public services. But more than ever before, the new Scotland act means

the growth of Scotland's but it depends on the growth of Scotland's

economy. Creating jobs, expanding the economy and growing tax revenues

- these priorities must be at the centre of everything we do, and they

always will be. This time last year, workers at the Tata steel plants at

Trent Bridge and Dalziel faced huge uncertainty. I missed we would leave

no stone unturned in our efforts to find and secure a viable future. We

worked with trade unions, local government and with the community.

Two weeks ago, I returned to Dalziel with this message for the workforce.

We kept our promise and Scotland is rolling in steel once again.

When I think of the many times in years gone by when Westminster

governments have stood by and allowed Scottish industry to wither

and die, I think about what might have been, what might have been if

there had been a Scottish parliament and a Scottish Government there to

fight for them. What might have been if the people of Scotland had been

able to stew the immense natural resources of these lands for present

and future generations, just like independent Norway did. So let us

make this resolution today. Never again will we be content to look

back helplessly at the damage the Tories have done to Scottish

industry and wonder what might have been. We must win the power to

always shape our own future. Conference, we will not just

intervene to save jobs. We will also provide help and support for

businesses to thrive. I can confirm today that our small business bonus

will be extended. From April the 1st next year, 100,000 business premises

across Scotland will pay no business rates at all. Absolutely none.

Our new half billion pound growth scheme will offer guarantees and

loans to companies seeking to export, expand and create new jobs.

And we will make sure the benefits of growth are shared more widely.

Central to that is our work to extend payment of the living wage.

There are currently over 600 accredited living wage employers in

Scotland. By this time next year, that number will rise to at least

1000. That's what inclusion means in practice.

We will also redouble our efforts to make sure our economy is

internationally competitive. That is even more important now, in the wake

of the Brexit vote. Make no mistake - the threat to our economy is not

just the prospect of losing our place in the single market,

disastrous though that would be. It is also the deeply damaging and

utterly shameful message that the Tories' rhetoric about foreign

workers is sending to the world. More than ever, we need to tell our

European friends that Scotland is open for business.

And let me be crystal clear about this. We cannot trust the likes of

Boris Johnson and Liam Fox to do that for us. So today, I can

announce a four point plan to boost trade and exports by taking

Scotland's message directly and in our own voice to the very heart of

Europe. Firstly, we will establish a new board of trade in the Scottish

Government. Secondly, we will set up a new trade invoice scheme. It will

ask prominent Scots to help us boost our export efforts. Thirdly, we will

establish permanent trade representation in Berlin...

Adding to our investment hubs in Dublin, London and Brussels. And

fourthly, we will more than double the number of Scottish development

International staff working across Europe, men and women whose job it

will be to market Scotland is an open economy and a welcoming

society. Friends, the difference between the

Scottish and Westminster governments is this. They are retreating to the

fringes of Europe. We intend to stay at it's very hard, where Scotland

belongs. -- at it's very hard. Conference, inclusive economic

growth underpins our entire economic strategy. The Queensferry crossing,

a new bridge across the Forth, has been our country's most important

infrastructure project in a generation. In fact, this week it

entered the Guinness Book of Records. The central tower of the

bridge is the biggest freestanding structure of its kind anywhere in

the world. What an amazing feat of engineering.

But the most important infrastructure investment of the

next few years will be different. It will be childcare. Over this

Parliament, we will double the amount of state funded early years

education and childcare for all three and four-year-olds and from

those disadvantaged two-year-olds. Not a bridge over a river, but a

bridge to a better future for our children.

And today I can announce a new phase in this childcare revolution. Just

now, it is local authorities to decide what childcare places are

offered to parents. Councils work really hard to be flexible, but

often, the places offered to parents are not when and where they need

them. So today, we are launching a national parent consultation on how

to do things differently. It proposes radical new approaches,

prioritising choice and flexibility. First, we will propose that parents

can choose a nursery or childminder that best suits their needs, and as

long as the provider meets agreed standards, ask the local authority

to fund it. In other words, the funding will follow the child, not

the other way round. Second, as suggested by children in

Scotland's childcare commission, we will propose that parents can opt to

receive funding in a childcare account and then use it to purchase

a suitable place directly. Quality, choice, flexibility. These will be

the watchword is of a policy to transform the working lives of

families and the life chances of our children, and I am proud that it's

an SNP government that will deliver it.

There is another policy for our youngest children that I will be

very proud to deliver. In the election, we promised a baby box of

essential items for all newborns. It's a policy borrowed from Finland,

where it has contributed to one of the lowest levels of child mortality

in the world. So I am delighted to give you an update on our plans to

introduce it here. Next month, we will launch a competition in

partnership with the V in Dundee for the design of the box. The first

boxes will be delivered the babies born in pilot areas on New Year's

Day. Now, I don't know about you... But as a first foot offering, I

think that beats a lump of coal. And then, next summer, every newborn

baby across our country will receive a baby box full of clothes, nappies,

bedding, books and toiletries. Friends, the baby box is a powerful

symbol of our belief that all children should start life on a

level playing field. That's what inclusion means in practice.

In our schools, raising the bar for all and closing the attainment gap,

opening up opportunity for every child, that is the number-one

priority our government. It is my personal defining mission. That is

why we are directing more funding to areas of greatest need. It is why we

have announced our intention to reform school governance, to put

parents, headteachers and classroom teachers at the centre of decisions

about children's learning. It's why we are working with teachers to

reduce workload, and it's why we are bringing greater transparency to

school performance so that we can measure the attainment gap

accurately and set clear targets to close it. But if we are to live up

to our ambition, we have a very particular duty to those most in

need. We have to get it right for every child. Recently, I have been

spending some time with young people who have grown up in care. Some of

them are here today. We welcome you to our conference.

CHEERING AND APPLAUSE. Their stories have moved me deeply.

These young people have challenged me to accept who gives Scotland's

pledge to listen to 1,000 cared for people over the next two years and

to use what they tell me to help make their lives better, I've

accepted that challenge. Don't get me wrong, many young

people who grow up in care go on to do great things, and the staff and

the foster careers who work with looked after kids, do an amazing

job, let us thank them publicly today.

And real progress is being made. School exclusions are down, the

number of children living in permanent rather than temporary

placements is up. But we cannot ignore the reality for too many

children in care. Only 6% go to university. Nearly

half will suffer mental health issues. Half of the adult prison

population are people who lived in care when they were growing up.

And worst of all, and this breaks my heart, a young person who has been

in care is 20 times, 20 times more likely to be dead by the time they

are 25, than a you were person who has not. Conference, this simply has

to change and I am determined that it will change.

APPLAUSE. So I am going to do what these young

people have asked me to do, I am announcing today that we will launch

an independent root and branch review of the care system. It will

look at the underpinning legislation, practice, culture and

ethos and it will be driven by those...

And it will be driven by those who have the experience of care.

Conference, this is not something that any other country has ever done

before. We will do it here in Scotland first. You know the young

people who speak to me make a simple but very powerful point, they say

the system feels like it is designed only to stop things happening, and

of course it must have safeguards and protections but children don't

need a system that just stops things happening to them. They need one

that makes things happen for them. APPLAUSE.

They need a system that supports them to become the people they can

be, one that gives them a sense of family, of belonging, of love. My

view is simple, every young person deserves to be loved, so let's come

together and make this commitment, to love our most vulnerable children

and give them the childhood they deserve, that wes inclusion means in

practice. There is one institution in our

country that embodies the values of inclusion and compassion more than

any other, it is our precious National Health Service. Today there

are more staff working in the health service than ever before. Our

doctors, nurses, auxiliaries and all of our other health professionals

are helping to deliver some of the lowest waiting times and some of the

highest satisfaction levels ever recorded in Scotland, so I will

never tire of saying this: Our NHS staff, our heroes, each and every

one of them, no matter where they were born deserve our deepest

gratitude for the work that they do. APPLAUSE.

Over this Parliament, we will increase health spending by almost

?2 billion. That's a necessary commitment but it is not sufficient.

To make our NHS fit for the future, we must reform as well as invest.

That will involve tough decision but the challenge of an ageing

population demands it. It is why our Government has integrated health and

social care, a challenge ducked by every single administration before

us it is why we are expanding stand-alone elective capacity

through five new treatment centres but we must go further. The NHS of

the future must be built on a real shift from acute care to primary and

community care. So the commitment I am making today is a landmark one.

By the end of this Parliament we will increase spending on primary

care services to 11% of the front line NHS budget, that's what doctors

have said is needed and that is what we will deliver.

APPLAUSE. And let me about clear what that

means, by 2021, an extra half billion pounds will be invested in

our GP practices and health centres it means for the first time ever,

that half of the health budget will be spent not in acute hospitals but

in the community, delivering primary community and social care. Building

an NHS that delivers today and for generations to come, that is what

our Government is determined to do. Friends, today I have set out our

determination to build an inclusive Scotland. I've talked about our

ambitions for our NHS, our economy, our education system, and our

children in care. I've talked about our hopes for the next generation

and for the generations that come after that. Hopes and ambitions that

are shared by men and women the length and the breadth of Scotland.

So as we prepare to take the next steps in our nation's journey,

whatever they might be, let us always remember this: There is more,

much more that unites us as a country than will ever divide us.

APPLAUSE. Yes, voters, no, voters, remainers

and levers, all of us care deeply and passionately about the future of

this nation, so whatever our disagreements, let us always treat

each other with respect. And let's work harder to understand each

other's point of view. You know, in a strange sort of way, the events of

the last few months might help us do just that. I know how upset I was on

the morning of the 24th of June as I came to term with the result of the

EU referendum. I felt as if part of my identity was being taken away.

And I don't mind admitting that it gave me a new insight into how those

who voted "no" might have felt if 2014 had gone the other way.

Likewise, there are many "no" voters now looking at the Brexit vote with

real dismay and wondering if independence might be the best

option for Scotland after all. Let's build on that common ground.

APPLAUSE. Let's resolve that whatever decisions we a is in the

years ahead, we will take them together, respecting each other ever

step of the way and let news the SNP lead by example.

APPLAUSE. You know this year marks 30 years

since I first joined this party of ours. Now I know what you're

thinking... How is that even possible when she is still only 25!

Or maybe that is just what I'd like you to be thinking but in all those

30 years, I have never doubted that Scotland will one day become an

independent country and I believe it today.

CHEERING AND APPLAUSE. And I believe it today more strongly

than I ever have before. But I've always known that it will happen

only when a majority of our fellow citizens believe that becoming

independent is the best way to build a better future together. So we need

to understand why in 2014 that wasn't the case. Some of you vote

vowed "no" believed that staying in the UK offered greater economic

security, a stronger voice in the world and a guaranteed place in the

EU, back then it even seemed possible that there might be a

Westminster/Labour Government at some point in the next 20 years but

the future looks very different today.

And make no mistake, it is the opponents of independence, those on

the right of the Tory Party intent on a hard Brexit who have caused the

insecurity and the uncertainty. So it falls to us, the advocates of

independence to offer solutions to the problems they have created. Of

course, independence would bring its own challenges, that is true for

every independent nation on earth. But with independence the solutions

will lie in our own hands. It will be up to us to chart our own

course and be the country we want to be, not the country that an

increasingly right-wing Tory Government wants us to be. I

promised at the start of our conference that we will seek to

protect Scotland's interests in every way that we can and we will.

We will work with others across the political divide to try to save the

UK as a whole from the fate of a hard Brexit. We will propose new

powers to help keep Scotland in the single market, even if the UK

leaves. But if the Tory Government rejects these efforts, if it insists

on taking Scotland down a path that hurts our economy, costs jobs,

lowers our living standards and damages our reputation as an open,

welcoming and diverse country, then be in no doubt, Scotland must have

the ability to ensure a better future and I will make sure that

Scotland gets that chance. APPLAUSE.

And let us be clear about this too, if that moment does arise it will

not be because the 2014 result hasn't been respected, it will be

because the promises made to Scotland in 2014 have been broken!

APPLAUSE. , it will be because our country

decides together. That being independent is the best way to build

a better, rocker, fairer future for all of us.

-- stronger, fairer future for all of us.

Friends, we know what kind of country we want Scotland to be, I

believe it's a vision that unites us, an inclusive, prosperous,

socially just, open, welcoming and outward looking country, the

question now in this new era is how best to secure it.

Let's resolve as a nation to answer that question together.

We have already come so far. Our home rule journey has given us new

confidence, no self-belief, a determination not to be taken

backwards but to finish building tomorrow's Scotland. Friends, the

time is coming to put Scotland's future in Scotland's hands.

CHEERING AND APPLAUSE. Let us get on with making that case.

Let's get on with building the country we know Scotland can be.

Thank you. STUDIO: The SNP leader Nicola

Sturgeon, taking the applause in Glasgow at the armadillo after her

awesome conference speech -- her autumn conference speech. She made a

number of policy announcements that, but she did say that Scotland was

open for business and you cannot trust Boris Johnson or Liam Fox to

get a good deal for Scotland. In her policy announcement, she is bug

about inclusion, saying she would have a national parent consultation,

an independent root and branch review of the care system, some big

spending announcements for health, 2 billion over five years and

increased spending on primary care services. She also spoke a lot about

independence at the end. She said she had a new insight into how no

voters felt after the EU referendum, she said she never doubts that

Scotland will be an independent country. And she said, let's get on

with making the case. That is her hugging her mum in the whole. And

you can see the Scottish Cabinet giving the applause too. There are

press photographers now on the stage. It is a huge auditorium, 3000

delegates at this conference. Professor John Curtice still joins

me as we watch these pictures. What did you make of that? Well, we

thought we were going to get a speech that is primarily focused on

the domestic challenges and opportunities that now face the

Scottish Government as it embarks on its next five-year term. But in

truth, I think we primarily got another continuation of the

arguments and the debate about Brexit and its implications for

independence. Perhaps it is traditional in SNP leaders' speeches

that we end with the peroration about moving towards independence

and eventually it will happen at some point. But the truth is, much

of the speech was peppered with these references to the implications

of Brexit, that we are an open society etc. So even when talking

about the NHS, there was a reference to the fact that a large proportion

of people working in the NHS come from the European Union and we

welcome them. So in many respects, this was still a speech about Brexit

and independence. Beyond that, the second thing that was interesting...

One of the things the SNP has long been criticised for is being

labelled a separatist party. And of course, we know that in many other

nationalist parties, the charge is made that they tend to be rather

xenophobic and in favour of the people who were born in the country

they represent. The SNP have long rejected that notion of nationalism.

What was interesting this afternoon was that she said the Conservatives

are now the separatist party. She was trying to draw the contrast

between inclusion and separation, to suggest that actually, the SNP were

now the party that spoke for the whole of Scotland and that it was

the Conservative Party who were the separatists and were going down the

path that hitherto, some of the SNP's critics have argued that that

is what they were responsible for. Yes, the Conservatives were the

separatist party, not the Conservative and Unionist party, she

said. On the domestic agenda, there was a moment when she announced a

rich and branch review of the care system and there were young people

there who had grown up in care. Nicola Sturgeon seemed to be quite

moved by that. That was an important policy announcement. It was an

important aspiration, although she's not the first First Minister to have

expressed concern about children in care. Jack McConnell also used to

talk about that in his speeches. It is certainly an important issue and

we should not underestimate it, but the truth is that a couple of the

announcements were more consultations. It is a on how

children are looked after. It was a consultation about childcare

provision, which has been criticised for being too inflexible and not all

parents can use it. A lot of consultations are coming up. In

truth, beyond the commitment to moving money into NHS primary care,

there wasn't a great deal in the speech that actually involve

spending money, although it was interesting, given what we were

saying just before the speech, that there was a clear appreciation that

this government's ability to spend money on services will now depend on

the state of the Scottish economy. And they are now linking that

requirement to one of the reasons why they want to retain the liturgy

open access to the European Union, because they are saying the only way

we can maintain Scotland's economy is through that path. So even there,

the issue of Brexit begins to come in. We don't get far in the speech

before Brexit and Indyref2 are somehow being portrayed as an

important part of the story. Thank you, John. Our political editor

Brian Taylor was also listening to the speech, and he joins us again in

the exhibitors' hall. I'm joined by two journalistic colleagues here.

Let's go through some of the announcements. First, that trade

announcement. Again, some in the UK Government will say, what is she

doing? Is she setting up embassies? I think it is largely symbolic. This

is about sending Scottish Government representatives out into the world.

Yes, it is to do with trade, but it is also about trying to improve the

relations the Scottish Government has with European countries and say,

we are an inclusive, open country. She's trying to create that

dichotomy. They may be seen as embassies, but they are more subtle

than that. That economic message came through quite strongly,

contrasting what she believes can be done in Scotland with what she says

is the damage being created by Brexit. But even if you do set up

embassies in Europe to create these warm and cuddly relationships with

European governments, it doesn't alter the fact that 15% of

Scotland's trade goes to the EU and 64% is with the UK. Those are big

numbers that will be hard to shift by opening a tourist office in

Berlin. Let's turn to the childcare announcements and the review of the

care system. What did you make of that, Hamish? The childcare

announcement was basically taking power away from councils and giving

it to parents, giving parents the flexibility they have asked for. If

you have that from a Tory government, you would say it was a

Tory policy. It is a populist, parent friendly, the councils may

not like it, but Nicola Sturgeon has done it to cut councils out of the

process and give more power to parents. It will be popular. And

four children in care, there was the announcement of a root and branch

review of that. The First Minister was close to tears at that point.

She was very moved by what she was saying there. While she was reading

out the statistics about the health record of kids in care and their

educational achievements and the mortality rates, it was shocking. So

clearly, something has not gone right and you can't fault her for

trying to put it right. It would seem that this was genuinely driven

by the suggestions she has had coming her way from kids who have

been through the care system. So it would appear. It proves again the

excess ability of the Scottish Parliament. -- accessibility of the

Scottish Government. She said inclusion was the byword, but she

then cleverly and neatly turned that into inclusion is on offer for

independence. That's right, and what is behind that is a sense that the

SNP did not win in 2014 because they didn't persuade enough people. So

this is a way of reaching out to those who did not vote yes in 2014

and saying, we will be inclusive. We will look after your interests, come

and see what we have to offer. That is what is behind the inclusion, it

is to be friendly to those who have opposed them. She said how she felt

on the 24th of June about having her European identity withdrawn for stop

she said, I get how people of British persuasion felt in 2014.

There was another subtle message following on from that about

respect. Perhaps a message to some on the fringes of the nationalist

movement who have not shown that respect, particularly in things like

social media. She would like them to rein back and show respect for

others. That was a strong point. She is aware of the problem that exists

there and she was making a point about reaching out. You have no

doubt that that was this was about? Not a bit. If they are to get beyond

50%, they have to find those people from no voters. They have to find

those who have been put off and find common ground with them. It was also

interesting when she made the point that the referendum is not her fault

the Gabashvili did it. David Mundell says this almost daily - we are

where we are, in an uncertain era, don't add to that with the

instability of a referendum. She must be aware of that and trying to

counter it. But she made the point that this is happening because of

broken promises. You told us we would have the security of the EU,

and that has not happened. She also said explicitly to the party, we did

not win in 2014 because, as you said, a series of reasons. The offer

has to be enhanced or altered. Yes, and around the conference there are

boxes of these survey forms which is the other part of this campaign,

which is to go out to no voters and say, why didn't you vote for us in

2014? What can we do to change it? That is the inclusion agenda writ

large. A question to you each. We are beginning the process of the

input to the Brexit negotiations from the Scottish Government. Will

that prove fruitful or will there be an independence referendum and if

not, when? It will be fruitful and there will be a referendum, but

maybe not for many years. There will be a demand for treaty powers and

control of immigration. It is such a big ask. But I think these are

demands which are unmeetable and will lead to a referendum. Later

rather than sooner. Thank you for joining us. Brian, thank you very

much. Now, delegates at conference have called the cannabis to be

decriminalised for medical use. It does not mean it will happen in

Scotland, as it is a competency of the UK Government, but the

resolution also called for responsibility over such matters to

be devolved to Holyrood. This is a resolution about fairness,

compassion and common sense. In many other countries all over the world,

cannabis is used as a legal form of pain relief. It has been used as a

medicine for thousands of years. Many modern-day states have devised

ways of allowing citizens who have a legitimate need to access cannabis

and to be able to do so legally. The system we have in the UK is just

another example of how people who are ill or have disabilities are

treated with less compassion than they deserve. Most people would find

it very hard to know that a loved one was in pain. They would find it

hard knowing that there was a substance that was cheap and readily

available that could relieve the pain that they could buy, because

doing so would make them a criminal. The current state of affairs

criminalises compassion, and it shouldn't be allowed to go on. I

don't believe we should be in the position where we have to ask the UK

for these powers. I believe we should have them with independents

and as a right. But we are where we are, and so the resolution asks the

UK Government to give us the chance to do something better. As health

care professionals, we do want our patients to have everything we can

throw at them to help them, but we want to do them no harm. The systems

and processes we have two meet, test and monitor medicines are there to

make sure medicines are used as safely as possible, so that they can

be stopped when they don't work and they can be stopped when they cause

harm. The cannabis that people are buying on the street illegally is

not a medicine, it is a herbal product. As a non-pharmaceutical

product, cannabis would not meet the standards of a safe medicine.

Legitimising an unregulated product I saying it could be prescribed

opens the door for the snake oil salesman and the fraudsters to take

advantage of these patients, these desperate people who want something

to help them. So the resolution as it stands, I don't feel it should be

decriminalised. Patients should not be criminal. But cannabis as a

herbal product cannot be prescribed. It does not meet the standards

necessary for doctors and prescribers to prescribe it.

Those in favour of the remit please show. Those against, please show.

Cards down. Those against the resolution please

show. The resolution is passed overwhelmingly.

The conference voted overwhelmingly to work with fishing communities to

influence EU policy, where it is applicable to Scotland the

resolution called for a development for a new structure for Scottish

fishing relevant to the Scottish community.

Today we have heard nothing from the Prime Minister about the needs of of

the fishing communities in the north-east of Scotland and beyond,

fishing whose rights were taken away when the Tories took us in the

Commons fisheries policy. We oppose the Commons fishery policy from the

outset. My speech in Parliament 15 years ago was on the policy. It is a

policy that cease the majority of the fish caught in our waters loaded

into the halls of foreign vessels, a policy that diverts economic

benefits of fish caught in our waters, away from our communities. A

policy that cease our Government able to stop fishing when

conservation requires but only to stop Scottish vessels, fishing, not

able to stop vessels from for example, Spain. When people in

fishing communities voted in June, they did not, repeat, not, buy into

xenophobic hatred, signing up to a bringing up of the draw bridge,

supporting proposals to leave the market and dam the consequences or

any other proposals emanating from the Tory extremists, they were on

the same policy page as us, with our arguments, dating from the late SNP

and MEP Alan McCartney, who campaigned for the return of local

control and local benefit for the catch of wild fish.

I move the direct negative for the resolution, for the reason it

represents weasel words. This resolution does not mean a dam thing

and Stuart Stevenson knows it. It does not in fact say: That we can

get out of the CFP, it doesn't say we could get a delegation from the

CFP as he knows that we could not. And when Marie says that the English

Government failed on the CFP, she doesn't know, seemingly, that the

CFP was introduced for the first time into the European economic

community, the same day that Britain and Norway applied to join the EEC.

In fact, the CFP was one of the conditions already there when we

joined the CFP and has been controlled by the majority of the

CFP since. And any idea that Spain will not veto any move by Scotland

to look after its fishing industries is flying in the face of reason.

Those in favour of the resolution, please show. Cards down. Those

against, please show. Is that one or more than one? A few, maybe a

couple? OK, the resolution is passed overwhelmingly.

Let's cross back to Brian at the conference for a final time. He has

some Parliamentarians with him. I do. Also good to hear from Jerry

Fisher on the debate on fishing. He has been attending conferences

longer than I have. Now, let's talk about the First

Minister's speech and about the announcement on children in care.

There was a childcare announcement, a nursery announcement separately

but the children in care, she was emotional? Absolutely. This is

important to Nicola. She made the commitment to listen to 1,000

children in care over the course of the next two years. We have to do

what we can to improve LIFFE for these children.

It's a tough balance to she wants every kid to be loved but the system

currently stops things but on the other hand, Nicola Sturgeon

recognising that there must be protections? Absolutely, co

corporate parenting and parenting are not doing enough. By the state I

don't think we have done enough from the kids, it is obvious from the

results we are getting. I am really pleased that Nicola has spoke been

this today. Is there a danger to set up the

review and then there are too many difficulties? I don't think so. The

kids will be listened to. We will hear about what they say about

improving the system. We will do what we can to improve it.

And the announcement on spending on the NHS, diverting resources to

primary care but not increasing the overall package it is a

reprioritising of resources rather than funding? In relation to the ?2

billion investment that the Scottish Government is committing over the

course of the Parliament and the shift announced of 11%, ?500 million

from acontribute to primary is in relation to the challenges of the

NHS. Are you confident that it will be

done without damaging acute care? Absolutely. In acute care,

performances are strong. It is about how to use the budget, the increased

budget, how to use the potion of that to preventive spending and

together with the commitment to build the five elected treatment

centres, again with the emphasis on reducing demand, preventive spending

and ensuring we address trends and social trends for example like the

elderly population. I bet you both hear from the

constituents, whether it is from Scotland or Westminster, that you

have integrated NHS and social care but they don't see it on the ground?

I think we are beginning to see the carry-through. That people are

getting a joined up service. This is new. We are finding our feet. But I

think people are beginning to have that experience. I hear from

constituents involved in the NHS every day, what they say a largely

positive. To the subject of independence and

Brexit. A clever formulation by the First Minister saying it is not

tearing up the offer in 2014 that was a once in a generation, it is

the offer made in 2014 that has been changed. A clever way of putting it?

Again in context, we are in a position where the Scottish

Government, the First Minister is focussed on protecting Scotland's

interests in the scenario of Brexit. In terms of the Referendum Bill and

the consultation to begin that is a fulfilment of a promise made on the

steps of the House on the 24th of June to keep the options open to

ensure that Scotland's interests are protected in the challenge

circumstances. And Kirsty Blackman, asking things

that cannot be conceded in a United Kingdom state, that you are asking

for foreign policy negotiation powers, you are asking for? I don't

think it is the case. There have been experts that is come to us to

put forward a possible framework. We have done our best in... The idea of

flexibility within the UK? It has seen what the options are. It is not

starting from the point of independence but what can we do, how

to make this work for Scotland. It is a flatteneders-style, Belgium,

is it a wonderful example of a stable state to be using? I am not

saying to replicate the Belgium example but looking at any and all

of Scotland's voices to be heard. Our voice to stay in the EU. And do

you guess that the negotiations, the search for a solution within the UK

gambit gets somewhere, or is it that it could be thwarted and there is a

move to a referendum? It is up in the air. All we have is Brexit is

Brexit. I think we need sessions from the UK

Government to come up with any certainty on the question.

I echo the point. The ball is very much in the UK's Government's courts

as the First Minister said. They are in the position to recognise or

not... But the Prime Minister says that the UK as a whole voted to

leave and she is the UK Prime Minister, and she will lead the UK

as a whole, including Scotland? She has to question whether or not to

recognise Scotland's determination and Scotland's voting determination

at the blocks. That is where the ball is in her court. And the

Scottish Government is focussed on protecting the Scottish interests,

like announced, the four point plan, the interests to protect Scotland in

this situation. Thank you very much.

Wrian, thank you for your efforts at conference it is disappearing behind

you as we speak. Professor John Curtic ex-, your comments before we

go? If anybody was under the illusion that Brexit had not changed

UK and Scottish politics, I don't think that they will be under that

allusion after the last three days. Here again, as with the Conservative

conference, Brexit and its implications dominated the agenda.

What is clear is that Nicola Sturgeon has really set up her view

on Brexit and the kind of society she wants to create, very much in

opposition to what she thinks that the UK Government is in favour of.

A couple of things that she needs to worry about, we have seen in the

conference, the debate on fishing, we saw before Nicola's speech over

tying the referendum to Brexit, that the SNP itself is not entirely

united on the issue of Europe. And when it comes to those who voted for

the SNP in the independence referendum and in May 2015 are about

one in three of them that voted to leave. She may have to be careful on

tying the two. The second is though given the Tory stance of

immigration, her attacks on the Tories are going to hold water, we

should bear in mind another part of Theresa May's speech about more

money on infrastructure and industrial strategy, it may be

rather difficult to paint the Conservative as free trading

neo-liberal economists, in the way that Nicola Sturgeon was trying to

do in that speech. And the battles to come, the local

council elections? Yes indeed, in May, and in Scotland the SNP did not

do that well in May, 2012. They only just beat Labour. The local

Government there, they don't really control. And there has been a 12 to

13% swing to the SNP from Labour, if that transpires, then the SNP will

be dominant in Scottish local Government in the way that they are

for the most part in Holyrood. And that is why they had the conference

in Glasgow. In deed. In 2015, they were

optimistic to win Glasgow, they failed, they are hoping to succeed

the second time around. Now, more reaction to the SNP

conference online, you can join Gordon Brewer on BBC One Scotland

after 11.30am tomorrow morning. But from the conference floor team and

from us in the studio, thank you very much from all of us, enjoy the

rest of your afternoon. Goodbye for now.

After mining the rich seam of Scottish Literature, ten books have

been chosen, reflecting the vast range and some of the finest

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