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She meets John Niven, author of the music business satire | :00:00. | :00:00. | |
Kill Your Friends, and the rapper 50 Cent - and this episode does contain | :00:00. | :00:00. | |
some strong language. In my job I regularly meet people whose lives | :00:00. | :00:14. | |
are splashed all over the Internet and newspapers. One day you are | :00:15. | :00:20. | |
heart and the next, well... Fame is a bizarre and fascinating thing. For | :00:21. | :00:26. | |
my edition of Artsnight I will get behind the machine of celebrity and | :00:27. | :00:30. | |
find out why people won fame and how to get famous and most importantly | :00:31. | :00:36. | |
how to stay famous. The fame game is a multi-million pound industry and | :00:37. | :00:40. | |
it is not just faces that change from month to month and year to year | :00:41. | :00:46. | |
but the game itself. Welcome to my Artsnight. | :00:47. | :00:56. | |
# I don't know what you heard about me... One guy who knows what it is | :00:57. | :01:06. | |
to have everyone know his name is 50 cents or Fiddy. He is still one of | :01:07. | :01:12. | |
the bestselling wrappers of all time. -- is 50 Cent. The fame game | :01:13. | :01:19. | |
was not always easy for Fiddy, he is in the UK for a series of gigs and | :01:20. | :01:23. | |
he is staying just over the road from Radio 1. I will pop over to | :01:24. | :01:32. | |
have a chat with him. The facts of his life could not be more dramatic. | :01:33. | :01:37. | |
Born Curtis Jackson in Queens, New York, he was bought up by his | :01:38. | :01:41. | |
grandmother after his mother was killed. By the time he was 12 he was | :01:42. | :01:46. | |
already dealing drugs. In 2000 he nearly died after being shot nine | :01:47. | :01:53. | |
times at close range. Three years later he released his debut album | :01:54. | :01:58. | |
Get Rich or Die Tryin' which was also the title of his 2005 | :01:59. | :02:02. | |
semi-biographical film in which he starred as himself. The difference | :02:03. | :02:12. | |
between 50 Cent and Curtis Jackson, is there much of one? | :02:13. | :02:14. | |
You know, I have grown up with both of them. | :02:15. | :02:16. | |
The 50 cent piece is what it would take to get by in | :02:17. | :02:21. | |
I didn't swear in the house, I didn't say anything that would | :02:22. | :02:27. | |
indicate any of my activities that were going on outside. | :02:28. | :02:31. | |
My grandmother, every time they said I did something, she was like... | :02:32. | :02:34. | |
Curtis in the house and 50 on the street. | :02:35. | :02:41. | |
# I was innocent then, I didn't do no wrong... #. | :02:42. | :02:47. | |
You know, your life has changed drastically from your beginnings, | :02:48. | :02:52. | |
did you always know that you were going to do something to get out of | :02:53. | :02:56. | |
your situation? I have addictive behaviours and I know that getting | :02:57. | :03:02. | |
high is not the thing for me. I will get really high. In the house I grew | :03:03. | :03:09. | |
up in, the alcohol abuse was always present. I grew up bright in the | :03:10. | :03:13. | |
middle of that and I was like, kind of dodging that. You are quite | :03:14. | :03:21. | |
secure in the fact you have not changed since becoming successful or | :03:22. | :03:25. | |
would you say you have changed? You become exposed to different things | :03:26. | :03:28. | |
with travelling and seeing different people. It makes you a broader | :03:29. | :03:36. | |
person. I kind of look at people who have it, like guys from my early | :03:37. | :03:44. | |
life, they just came home from jail and it's amazing because they are | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
exactly who they were before they went away, they did not grow up. | :03:50. | :03:54. | |
They stayed exactly the same, maybe ten years. You have held onto your | :03:55. | :04:09. | |
original crew from where you grew up but obviously with success, suddenly | :04:10. | :04:16. | |
I think other people would like to hang out with you. Did you find out | :04:17. | :04:21. | |
about actresses wanting to date you or athletes hanging out with you at | :04:22. | :04:27. | |
a party, how did you approach that? At first you keep your distance from | :04:28. | :04:35. | |
everybody else. But you need to have people around you with their own | :04:36. | :04:39. | |
success and have similar problems. You are a world famous name, so how | :04:40. | :04:43. | |
does that affect your day-to-day life like going to the gym running | :04:44. | :04:48. | |
to get a coffee? What a shot interaction with the public alike? | :04:49. | :04:54. | |
-- what is your interaction like? You try to keep away from the | :04:55. | :05:01. | |
general public because when you are successful, you become a target. | :05:02. | :05:12. | |
# It's your birthday, we are going to party like it's your | :05:13. | :05:20. | |
birthday,... # Would the young Curtis be more | :05:21. | :05:25. | |
hesitant to enter the industry now? You find that a lot of young | :05:26. | :05:29. | |
artists, whether they are musical artists or painters or whatever, do | :05:30. | :05:34. | |
you find that young people now pay more attention to the celebrity | :05:35. | :05:37. | |
aspect of success as opposed to the work? Well, celebrities don't have | :05:38. | :05:47. | |
do have talent to be a celebrity. An attractive woman taking pictures for | :05:48. | :05:53. | |
Instagram can get a million followers, and she does not have | :05:54. | :05:59. | |
talent outside her genetics or maybe she has a great Doctor! Has there | :06:00. | :06:08. | |
ever been a point when you go, I actually don't feel like being 50 | :06:09. | :06:14. | |
Cent today. 50 Cent is the superstar. He is the portion that | :06:15. | :06:21. | |
the world embraced. What's interesting is that when you first | :06:22. | :06:25. | |
come into music culture, you become your idea. So if you did not write | :06:26. | :06:30. | |
things that really relate to your upbringing or who you are, then you | :06:31. | :06:38. | |
will kind of be stuck there. You have an extremely public facing job | :06:39. | :06:41. | |
and people assuming that they know you. How do you not care what people | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
think? Well, you know that they will hate you whatever you do. If you go | :06:47. | :06:53. | |
left, there will be people saying, why did you not go right? It is just | :06:54. | :06:58. | |
because it is their perception of who you are and what you could do. | :06:59. | :07:03. | |
People feel like they are in a great space and they could do anything. I | :07:04. | :07:07. | |
have people becoming angry with me because they feel I could have just | :07:08. | :07:12. | |
made them a star. Can I call you Curtis? Whatever you like. It was | :07:13. | :07:21. | |
lovely to meet the man behind 50. I appreciate your time. Never before | :07:22. | :07:29. | |
has the world been so saturated in images of fame and celebrity. | :07:30. | :07:32. | |
Everywhere we look we are assaulted visually by photographs of pouting | :07:33. | :07:40. | |
or perhaps perfect figures. Brand-new magazines every day and | :07:41. | :07:44. | |
new gossip every day and new columns and with that demand comes at a need | :07:45. | :07:48. | |
for a lot of photos and I mean a lot. I wonder exactly what lengths a | :07:49. | :07:54. | |
photographer will go to to get the perfect celebrity shot. To find out | :07:55. | :07:59. | |
more I'm going to the Getty images gallery to meet Dave Bennett, I like | :08:00. | :08:04. | |
to call him the mobile Mario test Eno. He is a master of photography | :08:05. | :08:09. | |
and if anyone understands the changing face of fame it is him. | :08:10. | :08:13. | |
It's nice to see you. Without a camera! That makes a change. Just | :08:14. | :08:20. | |
surrounded by photos instead. These are incredible photos, moments in | :08:21. | :08:26. | |
pop culture that no one can forget. Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman where | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
the power couple. This was taken in London coming out of a restaurant in | :08:32. | :08:35. | |
Mayfair. This is basically Tom Cruise telling the world that he had | :08:36. | :08:42. | |
left Mimi Rodgers and was now dating Nicole Kidman. It has been used now | :08:43. | :08:47. | |
ever since then all the time and everybody does it. They just go out | :08:48. | :08:51. | |
and take the new girl to a popular haunt. And that will be that. I'm | :08:52. | :08:58. | |
sure you can tell and you must know when you see people pretending that | :08:59. | :09:03. | |
they don't know they are being photographed, have you managed to | :09:04. | :09:09. | |
get a bit of an indicator? Anyone who is anywhere near us, they know | :09:10. | :09:14. | |
that we know that they know. We have been on the red carpet. Liz Hurley | :09:15. | :09:19. | |
was photographed by 40 photographers all evening. Then we came to the | :09:20. | :09:23. | |
party, and I knew that there was something missing, something that | :09:24. | :09:30. | |
she wanted to give. At the in and out club I got there ahead of her. I | :09:31. | :09:38. | |
just went, Liz, and Hugh does not even know the photo is being taken. | :09:39. | :09:45. | |
She was totally ready. Would you say you did not need any particular | :09:46. | :09:50. | |
tricks to get people to let their guard down? We were not long lens | :09:51. | :09:57. | |
guys, we were not in bushes. It was quieter then. The paparazzi would | :09:58. | :10:04. | |
have been ten guys, normally only three or four. The availability of | :10:05. | :10:11. | |
Camrys and digital -- cameras increased the amount of | :10:12. | :10:14. | |
photographers. 30 or 40 guys might be outside a party. There is no way | :10:15. | :10:19. | |
you can get a good picture. It is going to be a ruck. From the moment | :10:20. | :10:27. | |
that the star comes out the door. The face of fame has changed a lot | :10:28. | :10:31. | |
since Dave began his career and what it means to be a celebrity has | :10:32. | :10:36. | |
transformed beyond belief. The interest in celebrity has become a | :10:37. | :10:40. | |
professional activity involving thousands of pounds, millions of | :10:41. | :10:43. | |
pounds. Like all professional activities involving people you have | :10:44. | :10:48. | |
to keep turning the wheel and bringing in new episodes to try to | :10:49. | :10:53. | |
gain audience attraction. You have various celebrity stunts being | :10:54. | :10:57. | |
performed in order to get us interested. Part of the celebrities | :10:58. | :11:02. | |
don't issue is that the paparazzi create situations where stunts can | :11:03. | :11:07. | |
occur and they organise scandalous situations, situations which may | :11:08. | :11:10. | |
lead to a breakdown in ordinary interaction in order to generate | :11:11. | :11:16. | |
news. It is not just talented actors or royals that are the subject of | :11:17. | :11:20. | |
relentless paparazzi attention today, we increasingly see the lives | :11:21. | :11:25. | |
of previously ordinary people gaining more scrutiny from one | :11:26. | :11:29. | |
lenses. I'm about to have a conversation with Rob Cooper who is | :11:30. | :11:33. | |
a celebrity manager and he is known for making sure that his clients get | :11:34. | :11:38. | |
in the paper. Some of his clients are a bit vulnerable and I'm | :11:39. | :11:41. | |
apprehensive about that which is why I want him to see what his methods | :11:42. | :11:46. | |
are and what lengths he will go to to sure that his name is get kept in | :11:47. | :11:54. | |
the paper. -- to make sure. You need to tweet. We should put in a | :11:55. | :12:02. | |
spelling mistake because people might take the piss out of you. In | :12:03. | :12:10. | |
this unnerving documentary we see Rob working with Josie Cunningham | :12:11. | :12:13. | |
who has been in the headlines but the wrong reasons. Rob got in touch | :12:14. | :12:18. | |
when she first came to prominence after a story about her NHS funded | :12:19. | :12:23. | |
breast enlargement. People like to feel better about their own life, | :12:24. | :12:28. | |
they like to read about her life and then say... Did you read this? They | :12:29. | :12:32. | |
want to think they are above this person. We are picking up the | :12:33. | :12:45. | |
Czechs, that's fine. -- cheques. All of these are tactics to maximise | :12:46. | :12:49. | |
interest in her story. When it comes to your job do you ever your ethics? | :12:50. | :13:00. | |
I might feel a little bit guilty. If I met someone and tried to put them | :13:01. | :13:05. | |
out there without insight, I might feel guilty. But if I'm telling them | :13:06. | :13:10. | |
what might happen, there is only so much I can do and I should not how | :13:11. | :13:17. | |
to take responsibility, if they are switched on, that is their choice. | :13:18. | :13:22. | |
Every day when we walk to work and we are going about our daily | :13:23. | :13:26. | |
business, we are assaulted with thousands if not hundreds of | :13:27. | :13:29. | |
thousands of images of people from the public eye whether it is on | :13:30. | :13:36. | |
blogs or magazines or TV, it is everywhere and you can't escape it. | :13:37. | :13:41. | |
What do you do to make sure you get your clients out there? | :13:42. | :13:47. | |
If there are too many photos of someone out there, we will change | :13:48. | :13:53. | |
their hair or something like that. You might have somebody wearing the | :13:54. | :13:56. | |
same track suit every when they do the school run, because no paparazzi | :13:57. | :14:01. | |
is going to turn up outside your house every day to get the same | :14:02. | :14:05. | |
shot. You do that and the paparazzi do not hound you too much. We will | :14:06. | :14:11. | |
only do it on a certain situation, with a badge or a hat, so that | :14:12. | :14:14. | |
picture is pretty much just for one story and can't be used again after. | :14:15. | :14:19. | |
When it comes to your clients, would you say that any of them are decent | :14:20. | :14:25. | |
role models. Let's take a look at Josie for example, would you say she | :14:26. | :14:30. | |
is a role model? I'm not going to lie, it is a Perin's responsibility | :14:31. | :14:34. | |
to raid their children and teach them right from wrong. You don't | :14:35. | :14:39. | |
pass the buck to someone in the limelight, do your job as a parent | :14:40. | :14:47. | |
and your children will be fine. Josie Cunningham ten years ago, | :14:48. | :14:48. | |
would she have been as notorious as she is now? I would say ten years | :14:49. | :14:52. | |
ago she probably would not have been famous and in ten years time she | :14:53. | :14:55. | |
wouldn't be famous. It's purely about the time of the transition | :14:56. | :15:00. | |
from print to online. It's all how much she wants it. At the moment I | :15:01. | :15:03. | |
would say she is happy with what she's done. Meeting Rob was | :15:04. | :15:11. | |
certainly an education. Even though I work in this industry and I'm | :15:12. | :15:17. | |
quite aware of media manipulation, I was enlightened by Rob. I didn't | :15:18. | :15:21. | |
realise just how much goes into those tiny little pictures you might | :15:22. | :15:25. | |
see in the corner of a blog or a magazine, a lot goes into them and I | :15:26. | :15:29. | |
think it's safe to say that with people like Rob around, the industry | :15:30. | :15:32. | |
of celebrity isn't going bust any time soon. | :15:33. | :15:35. | |
Camden Town. In the 90s, this was the spiritual home of Britpop, a | :15:36. | :15:47. | |
music scene that gave rise to a scandalous book about the industry. | :15:48. | :15:54. | |
Kill Your Friends was written by disenchanted PR man Jonathan. This | :15:55. | :16:00. | |
is what I do, I listen to music, singers and songwriters, is decide | :16:01. | :16:05. | |
which ones stand a good chance of commercial success. Sound easy? Get | :16:06. | :16:14. | |
fucked. You wouldn't last ten minutes. | :16:15. | :16:19. | |
I met John... Do your member your first job in the music industry? I | :16:20. | :16:31. | |
have this image of you wide-eyed, OK music industry, I'm ready for you. I | :16:32. | :16:36. | |
would like to think there was a time when I was wide-eyed and innocent, | :16:37. | :16:43. | |
but I felt a bit like the vegetarian working in the slaughterhouse. | :16:44. | :16:48. | |
Beneath your feet you can see sharks circling. These are your colleagues, | :16:49. | :16:58. | |
your friends. Welcome to the music industry. Kill Your Friends is now a | :16:59. | :17:11. | |
film as the sociopathic star... I wrote the book from the point of | :17:12. | :17:17. | |
view of the young naive guy who gets seduced and then disgusted by this | :17:18. | :17:22. | |
system. When I came back to it I wrote it from the point of view of | :17:23. | :17:29. | |
the guy who is in the belly of the beast but absolutely loved it and | :17:30. | :17:34. | |
was completely is unapologetic about his desires. How do you want to play | :17:35. | :17:42. | |
this? You be the enthusiastic music lover and bang on about the guitar | :17:43. | :17:46. | |
solos and I will tell them about the label. Why do people like him so | :17:47. | :17:52. | |
much? His character is pretty awful, he is a terrible human being, but | :17:53. | :18:04. | |
people seem to really like him. I think what happens | :18:05. | :18:05. | |
is that he will see some really outrageous things but now and again | :18:06. | :18:10. | |
he says something that is really right on the money about the nature | :18:11. | :18:17. | |
of fame and the ego of musicians. We enter into an uncomfortable | :18:18. | :18:20. | |
collusion with him because we think, I agree with that. As you know, we | :18:21. | :18:27. | |
will manufacture your records and get them in the shops, and that's | :18:28. | :18:34. | |
about it. We will interfere in every conceivable step of the artistic | :18:35. | :18:41. | |
process. We will force you to appear an degrading kids television | :18:42. | :18:46. | |
programmes when you are hung over in the morning. We will under account | :18:47. | :18:58. | |
you and charge you for everything up to the stables used to knock your | :18:59. | :19:07. | |
horrendous contracts together. Was there a fear about translating the | :19:08. | :19:18. | |
story from print to scream? It was always strange seeing something you | :19:19. | :19:21. | |
have written realised as a movie, a very odd experience. | :19:22. | :19:24. | |
You've seen the evolution of the industry since the 90s. | :19:25. | :19:26. | |
Would you say that that much has changed, really, | :19:27. | :19:28. | |
when it comes to people's attitudes towards what they want out | :19:29. | :19:31. | |
Maybe something that has changed in the past 20 years, | :19:32. | :19:37. | |
and it's a by-product of all of these reality shows, possibly... | :19:38. | :19:41. | |
If you want to be a writer, a musician, an artist, | :19:42. | :19:48. | |
then ideally you want to do the work all this stuff | :19:49. | :19:51. | |
like the red carpets and premieres, that is the effluent, the by-product | :19:52. | :19:54. | |
You then have to do that sort of stuff. | :19:55. | :19:59. | |
Whereas I do think that there is a subculture now | :20:00. | :20:02. | |
of kids who think that the red carpet stuff and getting | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
your photograph taken and doing interviews and pouting in front of | :20:08. | :20:09. | |
Anybody who does this will tell you that that is the worst aspect of it. | :20:10. | :20:16. | |
It's an interesting thing, that a lot of people genuinely seem | :20:17. | :20:23. | |
to want the waste products of fame without any of the good stuff. | :20:24. | :20:29. | |
Thank you very much, John Niven. I thoroughly enjoyed your commentary. | :20:30. | :20:36. | |
Now, if there is one thing that this entire self obsessive moneymaking | :20:37. | :20:43. | |
fame machine can't do without, it's the fans. Fans are at the heart of | :20:44. | :20:47. | |
the industry. After all it is their money that keeps the whole celebrity | :20:48. | :20:51. | |
shebang on the road. I am absolutely fascinated by the relationship | :20:52. | :20:55. | |
between the super famous and their fans and definitely how their | :20:56. | :20:57. | |
relationship has shifted over the years. Before, when it came to our | :20:58. | :21:05. | |
favourites, there was an element of mystery. But now we know everything | :21:06. | :21:08. | |
from their last dentist appointment to even what they had for breakfast. | :21:09. | :21:12. | |
And all change is due to one woman. -- come to the Madonna fan party. | :21:13. | :21:30. | |
Since 2003 the parties have provided an opportunity for fans to meet each | :21:31. | :21:35. | |
other face-to-face and pay homage to the Queen of pop. She was sexy and | :21:36. | :21:41. | |
fun. Because her music has crossed so many genres, it feels like she | :21:42. | :21:48. | |
has soundtrack our lives. I always think when I'm doing things, what | :21:49. | :21:54. | |
would Madonna do? If you think about what Madonna was doing in the late | :21:55. | :22:01. | |
80s and early 90s when she released In Bed With Madonna, the film, she | :22:02. | :22:07. | |
was attempting to portray herself in a slightly different light as how | :22:08. | :22:11. | |
she was seen on TV. Stripping us back to who she really was and what | :22:12. | :22:16. | |
she was really like, warts and all, that was kind of how she sold that | :22:17. | :22:20. | |
film. From that day, celebrities are now very happy to let us into their | :22:21. | :22:23. | |
homes, their bodies, let us see everything that goes on and it's no | :22:24. | :22:27. | |
longer scandalous in the way that it was then. But despite giving fans | :22:28. | :22:34. | |
unprecedented access to her world, Madonna really has remained fiercely | :22:35. | :22:37. | |
protective of her position as a cultural icon. She is still a bit of | :22:38. | :22:43. | |
an enigma, which I like. Do you feel like you know Madonna? No, I feel | :22:44. | :22:49. | |
like I know her as an artist but not as a person, which is how it should | :22:50. | :22:55. | |
be. But in the new world of social media, the staff and relationship | :22:56. | :22:56. | |
has entered a dramatic | :22:57. | 2:28:35 |