Lynn Barber meets Mumford & Sons Artsnight


Lynn Barber meets Mumford & Sons

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This programme contains some strong language

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Come on, then, Glastonbury!

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You've probably heard of Mumford & Sons.

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They're one of the biggest bands in the world.

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# And I will hold on hope

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# I won't let you choke... #

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They started in a London pub almost ten years ago,

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reviving a fashion for English folk music.

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# Tremble for yourself, my man,

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# You know that you have seen this all before... #

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But recently they've ditched their distinctive banjo sound

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for something more hard-edged.

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# Stare down at the wonder of it all

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# And I... #

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This is an important year for them.

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They've toured three continents

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and in July will headline at London's Hyde Park.

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And this month they release a new album,

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recorded in Johannesburg with one of Africa's most revered musicians.

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I feel a sort of possessive interest in the Mumfords,

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because their lead singer, Marcus Mumford,

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is married to the actress Carey Mulligan, who played me

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in the film of my life, An Education,

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so I've always kept a sort of maternal eye on their career.

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They rarely give interviews, but they've agreed to speak to me.

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So, I'm meeting up with Marcus...

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-Thanks for coming.

-Nice to meet you.

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Ben...

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Ted...and Winston.

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Oh, sorry! THEY LAUGH

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Did we get that?

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DJEMBES ARE PLAYED

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VERSE SUNG IN PULAAR

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Mumford & Sons are rehearsing at Maidstone Studios in Kent.

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They are preparing for the first UK performance of songs written

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with their recent collaborators.

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# I know I love you now,

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# But will I love you then?

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# You can see in my eyes

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# It doesn't really matter

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# Cos man, I'm cold

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# Man, I'm toothless

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# My love, my heart is so suddenly useless... #

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It's the first time they played together

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since a sell-out tour of South Africa earlier this year.

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SINGING IN PULAAR

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Joining them on tour was Senegalese singer Babba Maal.

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BAABA SINGS IN PULAAR

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Is he like a, sort of, charismatic sort of guru figure?

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I think Baaba, despite the fact that he looks,

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-like, 20 years old, he's actually in his 60s and...

-Is he? 60s?

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-Yeah, and he's just got so much experience.

-Yeah.

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But also he is a sort of political, cultural leader.

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Yeah, and he's iconic, so you just know that, yeah, when he opens

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his mouth to talk or to sing, you know you've got to listen, so...

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Do you think, sort of, African music is the way to go now,

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cos you've, sort of, shopped around a bit with...

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THEY LAUGH

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..with musical styles, but, I mean, are you now committed to...?

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It was more of the human connection than the, sort of,

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pursuit of an African journey.

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The music is, kind of, our way of just bonding further with these

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people and it's not so much like a journey into Africa for us.

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It's more like Africa just happened to be the centre of where

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these new friendships are kind of...

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-We're pretty slutty with our tastes as well.

-Are you?

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Yeah, we get around quite a lot, so we have a pretty broad taste,

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especially amongst the four of us.

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-We like a lot of different types of music.

-But, but...

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But that leads to accusations that you're inauthentic,

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because it's very sort of pick and mix, you know,

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you start being folk and then you...

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Yeah, and I think we're of the generation where music,

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world music especially, is massively more accessible to us than it

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might have been to our parents' generation because of the internet.

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And so you can listen to any type of music you want to

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at the click of a button now.

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You don't have to go to a special record store to go

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and pick up, you know...

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Congolese jazz.

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But it's a bit phoney if you're sort of,

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"Oh, this week's Cuban music," "You know, next week..."

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MARCUS LAUGHS

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-Do know what I mean?

-I wouldn't call it phoney, no. I think it's being enthusiastic...

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I value that music because it comes from a very specific location

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and then, as it were, you float in and say,

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"Oh, we're going to be African", or...

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Maybe only lyrically, if we started singing like,

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"Yeah, we're actual...we're Cubans"

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and we started saying that, that would mean...

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That would be a bit...

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-Yeah, melody, it, kind of, doesn't, I don't think it is attached to any country.

-Yeah.

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-It's not like were going in and pretending to be African all of a sudden.

-Yeah.

-No.

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We're still being ourselves and using our songwriting, but just marrying it

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with other musical cultures, marrying it with different rhythms, for example,

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so the rhythms that we've explored on the songs on this mini-album

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that we've done, Johannesburg, are rhythms that we wouldn't

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have used probably on a Mumford & Sons album, but were introduced to us

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through collaboration with players from different places.

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And so that, sort of, broadens our spectrum in terms of, like, our...

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And we like it.

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We don't see any reason why we should be restricted to what we necessarily grew up with.

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I mean, we grew up playing jazz.

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-You know, and we're not a jazz band.

-You were at school together.

-He grew up playing heavy metal.

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-Oh, right.

-He grew up playing blues.

-Oh, right.

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But folk was how you, sort of, started from that?

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Yeah, as a band, it was, yeah.

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# Roll away your stone, I'll roll away mine

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# Together we can see what we will find

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# Don't leave me alone at this time

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# For I am afraid of what I will discover inside... #

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We were all playing, sort of, acoustic instruments

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and were in London at the same time all together

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and started with that.

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Everyone was playing every type of instrument playing, like,

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banjos and we were, kind of, the backing band to a lot of bands.

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-Right.

-And so...

-Kept getting fired, though.

-Kept getting fired.

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-Was Laura Marling the, sort of, glue in the beginning?

-A huge part of that.

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-Huge part of that.

-Yeah.

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# Your beauty is beyond compare

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# With flaming locks of auburn hair

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# Ivory skin and eyes of emerald green... #

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When we did finally become a band,

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she brought us on tour for a long time.

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Our first US tour.

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First couple of UK runs...

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She was very generous with our band.

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# Jolene, Jolene, Jolene... #

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In 2009, the band self-financed their debut album, Sigh No More.

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# Cos you told me that I would find a hope

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# Within the fragile substance of my soul

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# And I have filled this void with things unreal... #

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It sold millions, was nominated for the Mercury music prize

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and won Album of the Year at the Brit Awards.

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Everything got much bigger,

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quicker than we had expected or ever imagined.

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What do you mean, in terms of scale...

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-Scale, yeah.

-Yeah.

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We never really thought that hard about the name of the band or any of those kind of things.

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And you've said, that you regret that the name Mumford & Sons

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because it singles you out.

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Well, you just don't... When you're starting out as a band, like,

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21-year-olds in a pub in London, you...

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You just don't think!

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You don't imagine ever getting much further than Brighton.

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And then, suddenly, we had this thing that we were kind of,

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not uncomfortable with, but stuck with,

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and we didn't like being stuck in a hole.

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# But it was not your fault, but mine

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# And it was your heart on the line ... #

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English folksy,

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fresh off the farm in hay carts or something,

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that had become a bit of an exaggerated stance and...

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It came up in every interview we were doing.

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-Yes.

-And we were aware of the problems...

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What, you were being accused of being sort of...

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Not really accused, just people talked about it a lot.

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We had taken photographs in 2007, just wearing whatever we had lying

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around - suddenly became the image that was projected around

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-the world...

-You were stuck with?

-Way more than we had expected it to be.

-Yes.

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And all of our singles that were on the radio

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-had pretty prominent banjo parts...

-Yeah.

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And that was the kind of most recognisable instrument to people.

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So people just kept using the word "banjo" around us

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and kept talking about, you know, exactly the things that you

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just said and we thought it was quite funny, so we decided to

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parody it with some friends who we thought were really funny.

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With that video, you blew it apart.

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Sort of took the mickey out of your own

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folksy, English hayseed image.

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And that showed that you were aware that you had maybe gone as far

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as you could go down that path and you were ready for another path?

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Wasn't comedy, but, yeah!

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THEY LAUGH

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# And my ears hear the call of my unborn sons

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# And I know my choices colour all I've done... #

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In 2013, you announced an indefinite hiatus

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-and it was obviously a bit of a traumatic year...

-May I just jump in?

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Because that was a quote that came from me having a conversation

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with a journalist from The Rolling Stone America.

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-Right.

-And I said, "We are going to take some time off.

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"And what it definitely isn't is an indefinite hiatus."

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Oh, really! SHE LAUGHS

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-OK.

-And so, that got taken and then

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the words "indefinite hiatus" were inverted, as is the way.

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So ... Yeah, no, we never felt like we were taking an indefinite hiatus.

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We just thought that after what was by that point, five or six

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-years on the road...

-You needed a break?

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-It would be good to take a couple of months out.

-I think we were... We were just exhausted.

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-Yeah.

-I think it's like, most bands

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do generally have a little rest every now and then.

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And it never occurred to us to do that.

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Until 2013. Whenever it was, yes.

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But you actually said, it's all over and then your PRs picked it up

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and said, oh, no!

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So, did you actually think it was all over?

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I genuinely got into the catering industry.

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And had a great time.

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What were you going to do as a caterer?

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Well, the business itself didn't go very well,

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but I took a lot of joy out of it and...

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-Yeah...

-Well, we were just continuing the cycle.

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Well, no, talking about the time that we ...

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LAUGHTER

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Inevitably, the band's personal lives have also been

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the subject of press attention.

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I noticed a photograph of you and Carey Mulligan on the Tube,

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quite recently.

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-Yeah!

-And I mean, that sounds like a daring thing to do, was it?

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Did it feel like that?

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No, it doesn't feel very, no, it doesn't feel very daring.

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-OK.

-Yeah. We make pretty intentional choices so we don't have to ...

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Because we want to play music, we don't want to be famous.

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Well, our reason for doing this is just to play music.

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People who do want to be famous maintain that I hate being famous,

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but I can't help it that outside my hotel are a billion girls

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screaming their heads off. But actually, I always believed

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that the PR has summoned the screaming girls, as it were.

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There are decisions you can make to intentionally try

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and avoid that stuff.

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Yeah, but, screaming girls ...

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LAUGHTER

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Do you know that your wife played me in a film?

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I did know that.

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-You did?

-I did know that.

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-And does she happy memories of that?

-She does.

-OK.

-She does, indeed.

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OK, thanks.

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# Wide-eyed

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# With a heart made full of fright... #

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Well, then you slightly reinvented yourselves for Wilder Mind,

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didn't you?

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And all started turning up in motorcycles

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and leather jackets and trying to look not banjo-y.

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As it were.

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THEY LAUGH

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# Sister,

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# You better keep the wolf back from the door

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# He wanders ever closer every night... #

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Was that a sort of conscious decision,

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or were you just a bit, you were saying let's try something new?

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It's been well-documented that we have worn leather jackets

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for our entire musical careers.

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-Oh, you have?!

-Yeah.

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Yeah.

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-Yeah...

-LAUGHTER

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No, it was one of those things, we...

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After having that hiatus that was indefinite or definite,

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whatever, we just created space and time to write

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and it was the first time we had really done that as a band.

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So, inevitably, we were going to evolve.

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And it wasn't, I don't know, it wasn't

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really a reactionary thing, it was just an inevitability, I think.

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# Hold my gaze love, you know I want to let it go

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# We will stare down at the wonder of it all... #

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Am I right in saying Wilder Mind was a more considered album,

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that you spent more time over, is that right?

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-Definitely.

-THEY CHUCKLE

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With the writing of the album, we had a lot of time to

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reflect on lyrics, but at the same time,

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a lot of the origination of a lot of those lyrics was

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stream of consciousness, very quick and then they stuck.

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Do you have any sort of, voting system, as it were,

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saying, I like that line and I think that's rubbish?

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-Yeah.

-I mean, how does that work?

-Yeah, we do. We've had to...

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I think it has taken us a few albums to get better at it, as well.

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-Yeah.

-Now we will feel a bit more secure around each other to be able

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to say, I love you, dude, but that's a crap line!

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Cos it's quite a vulnerable thing, you know, offering up what

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you've created to someone for them to criticise it to your face.

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And once a lyric got all four of us to sign off, then it was a keeper.

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A lot of Shakespeare gets in, doesn't it? Um...

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Well, it's free!

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You can just nick it, it's great.

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Can I please ask what the lyrics of Little Lion Man are?

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THEY LAUGH

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# Weep for yourself, my man

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# You'll never be what is in your heart... #

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-CROWD SINGS ALONG

-# And weep, little lion man

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# You're not as brave as you were at the start

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# Well, rate yourself and rake yourself

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# Take all the courage you have left

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# And waste it on fixing all the problems that you made

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# In your own head... #

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I mean, do you get people writing theses

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-on the meaning of your lyrics?

-Ha-ha!

-Cos I've been sort of

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going through them, thinking, "What does that mean?"

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I get phone calls from my mum. She's like, "Is everything OK?"

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LAUGHTER

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-No, it didn't make me think that, but why Little Lion Man?

-Ha-ha!

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-Whose...? Was that you, Marcus?

-Er, I think it was, yeah.

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-I think it was me.

-Little "lie-in" man, cos...

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-I love a lie-in.

-..he was always oversleeping and missing bus call.

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Oh, OK, cos I read something about it was from Chretien de Troyes

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and it was, er, I don't know, a medieval saga or something.

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-Anyway, to get back to...

-That sounds cool!

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-Let's say that, yeah, yeah!

-LAUGHTER

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Can you write that down?

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# It's not your fault, but mine

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# And it was your heart on the line

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# I really fucked it up this time

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# Didn't I, my dear?

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CHEERING

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# Didn't I, my...dear? #

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HUGE CHEER

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You're keen on touring and touring leads to collaboration,

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because you meet other interesting musicians.

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-Do you find it sort of musically nourishing to...?

-Massively so.

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I think this band, ultimately, is a collaboration in its own way.

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You know, we just consider ourselves to be four collaborators

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and so we welcome people to the party.

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They've played with musical giants

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like Ray Davies, Elvis Costello and Bob Dylan and, every year,

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host a series of festivals in places off the usual gig circuit.

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-CHEERING

-You all right?

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We're very excited to be here in Lewes!

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The line-up has included bands like The Flaming Lips,

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the Foo Fighters and The Vaccines.

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We love collaborating with all types of artists and some you

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would've never heard of and some you might've done, but for us,

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it's just meeting a new person with their own stories

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and own skills and you make music together and it's a really...

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-It is a very kind of enriching experience.

-Yeah.

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HE SINGS IN PULAAR

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Their collaboration with Baaba Maal

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is one of their most adventurous to date.

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He has been singing for over four decades, is one of Senegal's finest

0:18:370:18:41

musicians and, in his home country, is regarded as a cultural leader.

0:18:410:18:46

I was very, very surprised to see these guys, er...

0:18:470:18:52

to be very, very open,

0:18:520:18:54

not just on the music, but like, human beings,

0:18:540:18:58

because they go easily to people to talk to them

0:18:580:19:02

and, er, to their audience, when Marcus jumps on the stage,

0:19:020:19:05

and go into the audience, and to go give himself to the audience,

0:19:050:19:08

it's something... it's an example of that.

0:19:080:19:11

When I see them, with their crew that they're working with,

0:19:110:19:14

it's not just the people who come to work for you,

0:19:140:19:16

it's the people who go together in a kind of process, in a project.

0:19:160:19:21

This is everything that I saw in these guys

0:19:210:19:23

and I think this is why we became friends, because they were

0:19:230:19:27

very open, very respectable to me and to all these people.

0:19:270:19:31

# There is a time, a time to love

0:19:310:19:34

# A time to sing, a time to shine

0:19:340:19:37

# A time to leave A time to stay... #

0:19:370:19:41

As soon as he opened his mouth to sing something,

0:19:410:19:44

he has everyone's attention and then, that really led us

0:19:440:19:47

to making this song that we made, like...

0:19:470:19:50

-Yeah.

-We had a few chords we started playing around with

0:19:500:19:52

and, when something inspires him, he starts singing

0:19:520:19:54

and you've got to press record, cos that'll be it, you know,

0:19:540:19:57

all in one take, then, as a result of what he's sang over a few chords

0:19:570:20:00

we're playing around with, we then wrote the whole song...

0:20:000:20:02

-Right.

-..There Will Be Time.

0:20:020:20:04

CHANTS IN PULAAR

0:20:040:20:08

SINGS IN PULAAR

0:20:100:20:13

And you actually recorded an EP in two days flat?

0:20:160:20:20

I mean, that is extraordinary, isn't it? Is that normal?

0:20:200:20:22

It was... Yeah, er... Well, er, I don't know if it's normal.

0:20:220:20:26

-It's not normal for us.

-No.

0:20:260:20:27

It was the first time we'd done something that quickly.

0:20:270:20:30

Does is it make a sort of spontaneity?

0:20:300:20:32

Yeah, and it gives you an urgency that you might not get

0:20:320:20:35

if you were in some fancy studio in London...

0:20:350:20:37

-Yeah.

-..or in Los Angeles for weeks on end, you know.

-Yeah.

0:20:370:20:40

We're just in somewhere which is pretty restricted technology-wise,

0:20:400:20:44

in terms of the studio itself, like a lot of stuff we had to bring in...

0:20:440:20:48

-Yeah.

-..recording gear and stuff like that.

0:20:480:20:50

And also, the fact that we had two days to try and do four songs,

0:20:500:20:54

which we did, we just worked really hard

0:20:540:20:56

and there weren't any distractions, cos we were basically in a bunker...

0:20:560:21:00

-Yeah.

-..and, er, and, yeah, it was really exciting.

0:21:000:21:04

-You seem to be writing the lyrics sort of on the hoof?

-Yeah, we did.

0:21:040:21:07

-Yeah, we did a lot.

-Perhaps that's why

0:21:070:21:09

I can't understand what they mean? LAUGHTER

0:21:090:21:12

HE SINGS IN PULAAR

0:21:180:21:20

PULAAR CONTINUES

0:21:330:21:36

# In the cold light I learn to love and adore you

0:21:410:21:44

# It's all that I am It's all that I have

0:21:440:21:47

# And in the cold light, I live I'll only live for you

0:21:470:21:51

# It's all that I am It's all that I have... #

0:21:510:21:54

SINGING IN PULAAR

0:21:570:21:59

HARMONISING

0:21:590:22:01

PULAAR CONTINUES

0:22:010:22:06

HARMONISING

0:22:110:22:15

But isn't this thing, and with some of these world music things

0:22:150:22:18

that you've been talking about, that you have to be authentic,

0:22:180:22:22

you have to sort of be in that world, and - shock, horror -

0:22:220:22:27

-when Bob Dylan played, um, electric music...

-Mm-hm.

-Yeah.

0:22:270:22:33

..it sort of felt like people's world falling apart.

0:22:330:22:36

-I mean...

-There's a lot of examples of that.

0:22:360:22:38

-Yeah.

-A hell of a lot of examples in jazz music.

0:22:380:22:41

A lot of people thought, every time someone came out with something new,

0:22:410:22:44

whether it was swing, or bebop, or fusion, it was always, like,

0:22:440:22:47

-"You're a heretic!"

-Yeah!

-"You've completely

0:22:470:22:49

"torn down the walls that we've got to know and trust!"

0:22:490:22:51

-And we were this tight little gang!

-Yeah, so, actually...

0:22:510:22:55

But those were some of the biggest heroes of those supposed genres,

0:22:550:22:59

-right, so Dylan is still regarded as one of the best...

-Yeah.

0:22:590:23:03

..kind of folk musician storytellers of our time.

0:23:030:23:06

Miles Davis, who constantly broke down those laws. Or Charlie Parker.

0:23:060:23:10

You know, I think, for us, we just want to make sure we're constantly

0:23:100:23:13

being honest about our expression and we're making music that

0:23:130:23:16

we like and we care about, rather than necessarily serving...

0:23:160:23:20

-Yeah.

-..to sort of whatever people think they want to hear from us.

0:23:200:23:23

-Yeah.

-You know, we're taking the front foot with our music

0:23:230:23:26

and, hopefully, we'll always do that.

0:23:260:23:28

Isn't it you who said something about you hate the banjo,

0:23:280:23:31

but also, you love the banjo?

0:23:310:23:34

I mean, what...? LAUGHTER

0:23:340:23:36

I've got a very short attention span.

0:23:360:23:39

-Oh, OK! So you can hate it...

-So I love it again now!

0:23:390:23:41

Oh, do you? OK! LAUGHTER

0:23:410:23:43

Now I hate it. ..Now I love it!

0:23:430:23:45

SINGING IN PULAAR

0:23:470:23:50

# There is a time, a time to love

0:23:500:23:53

# A time to sing, a time to shine

0:23:530:23:56

# A time to play, a time to work

0:23:560:23:59

# There is a time, a time to cry

0:23:590:24:02

# A time to love, a time to live

0:24:020:24:05

# There is a time, a time to sing

0:24:050:24:08

# A time to love... #

0:24:080:24:11

I read somewhere that you're meant to be collaborating with Kanye West?

0:24:110:24:15

Is that going to happen? SOFT LAUGHTER

0:24:150:24:17

He hasn't called us back!

0:24:170:24:19

So, basically, forget it, I would say!

0:24:190:24:21

LAUGHTER

0:24:210:24:22

Well, thank you. Thank you all very much.

0:24:220:24:24

I very much enjoyed meeting you.

0:24:240:24:27

-Thank you very much.

-Thank you.

-Thank you.

-OK, thanks!

0:24:270:24:30

-MUSIC STOPS, CHEERING

-Thank you!

0:24:530:24:56

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