Episode 1 Edinburgh Extra


Episode 1

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Welcome to the world's largest arts festival, bigger this year than ever before.

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Coming up - shows from South Africa that dazzle and disturb.

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Arthur Smith on the venue that launched many of today's top comics.

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Art meets arcade games, and a war of words over independence.

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All that and some surprise travellers on the city's new trams.

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The Edinburgh International Festival kicked off this weekend with

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an ambitious new trilogy of history plays, all about the turbulent

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times of three Scottish kings and the women in their lives.

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These thrilling stories of violence

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and political intrigue have been given an added frisson

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by a casting coup - Sofie Grabol, the star of The Killing,

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plays Margaret of Denmark.

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I caught up with the company just before the premiere.

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The way people engage with history when it is brought to them

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in an accessible way reinforces my idea that

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people are hungry to understand their own history.

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One of the things that both me

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and Rona have wanted to do is strip away received ideas

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of what a history play is like and how kings should be.

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The way Rona writes, it's so... It speaks to you.

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-We may have to sell something.

-Why?

-To pay for my choir.

-No.

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It's a real shame that these are forgotten kings.

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The idea that we all become invisible in history is both

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terrifying and moving and I think there is something

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about engaging with the people that have walked where you walked,

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not that long ago, that gives you a sense of how

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you are rooted in the world.

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Each set in the 15th century, these epic ensemble pieces

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bring to life three generations of Stuart royalty.

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It's so interesting that two of the most famous female

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detectives in Britain are moving centuries to perform together.

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What does it feel like? I mean, how did you approach this?

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I approached it because it was in rep. I quite like...

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I've never worked in rep before and I like the idea of having

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that challenge.

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Even before reading it - I think Sofie feels the same -

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even before reading the piece,

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I knew that Rona would come up with the goods

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because she is a historian.

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And it's a period of history that not a lot of people know about

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so she has capitalised on that.

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If it's not been written down as fact, she has embellished it.

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Sofie, did you know anything about the Danish connection with Scotland?

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No, I had honestly never heard of Queen Margaret of Denmark

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and what makes me feel a little bit better about that

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is that every Dane I asked,

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nobody had heard of her except really nerdy historically interested people.

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I don't think there is a lot of common knowledge about that,

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-that Queen or that period.

-Or history at all.

-No.

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-I asked to see the Treasury papers.

-Why?

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Because someone has to start helping you. Have you looked at these?

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-God, no.

-There is no money, James.

-A choir, Margaret. A few singers.

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-How many?

-A small choir.

-How many?

-Only 40 or so.

-No.

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Tell me about your relationship, then, with James.

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James III.

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Well, that was actually one of the things that really drew me

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to the project.

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I read the play and those two characters,

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their relationship just jumped off the page. I just...

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-I worry for you, that's all. I worry.

-Don't do that.

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Never do that.

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He is... He's not a good king, is he?

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-She is a much more, really, qualified to rule...

-And capable.

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And capable. Absolutely.

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NTS artistic director Laurie Sansom

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has taken on the responsibility

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of staging all three of these ambitious works.

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The Jameses were already commissioned by the time you arrived

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so how did you kind of pick up and run with it?

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Well, I think

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I'm probably one of the luckiest incoming artistic directors

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ever to have these three scripts on my desk when I first arrived.

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First drafts. As soon as I read them, I kind of had...

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There was an energy about the writing, an excitement,

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an urgency, really, about it that made me go,

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"OK, if we can get all three of these on in 2014 with one

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"company of actors, I think that's where I should start."

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One of the things that I responded to in Rona's writing was that

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each one had its own style and atmosphere.

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The first has a structure that is probably the most

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conventional of a history play.

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-Sorry. Are you still...

-What?

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I don't want to disturb your prayers

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No, I'm finished. I was waiting on you.

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Good, no. I'm finished.

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So...

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-Now we're married.

-Yes.

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We will have the wedding blessed again in Scotland

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-and then we can have our wedding night.

-Yes.

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Whereas the second one,

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suddenly you are plunged into the middle of a child's nightmare

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because he was six, James II, when he came to the throne.

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-I have dark blood, like snakes under my skin.

-No, you don't.

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It'll come out. I'll kill people.

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Well, you might, but not with snakes.

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When we are grown, we can learn killing and I am nearly grown.

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And then the third one, with Queen Margaret, played by Sofie Grabol.

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And Jamie Sives, it's a kind of a sparkling, dark,

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bittersweet relationship comedy, actually.

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Are you telling me, are you presuming to tell me

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that I can't afford music? Scotland can't afford music?

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-James, you can't afford to annoy people like this.

-People?

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-The entire nation!

-They are my subjects.

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It doesn't matter how much I annoy them, does it?

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What are they going to do? Stop me being king?

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Well, I imagine it's being discussed.

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So many people are making comparisons between these plays

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and Shakespeare's history cycle,

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which of course is just like putting a gun to your head as a writer

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because how could you live up to that?

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However, I did think, wouldn't it be nice

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if there was something like the "sceptred isle" speech

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so that was my attempt to give James I an equivalent.

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The last sight I had of Scotland was no sight at all.

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It was a wet wind.

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It was driving waves and rain in my face so I couldnae see.

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I was ten years old.

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I was greeting more salt water than there was in the sea that was soaking me to the bone.

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I felt that the sky and the sea and the wind of Scotland were

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scolding me, were shouting their anger at me.

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How could I leave my own country? How could I run away?

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That was the speech that I had to audition with.

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And it was the thing that made me want to do it more than anything.

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It's so well written and it really...

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captures exactly how I feel about Scotland

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and I imagine how Scottish people feel about Scotland as well.

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18 years later, I come up to the border.

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I saw the green hills, I saw the dark rock and towering skies

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and far-off mountains of foam and I drew breath,

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ready to shout a greeting back into that dear country and...

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Bam...

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There it was again, a stour of a wet wind knocking me back south

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and roaring its disdain in my face. And I'll tell you this.

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I love that gale.

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So you knew you were going to do a trilogy - James I, James II,

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-James III?

-Yes.

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Did you know that it was going to be staged

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bang in the middle of the referendum?

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No, because obviously when I very first pitched it, even though

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the possibility had started to be debated,

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we didn't know there was going to be a referendum this year.

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But then, quite early on in the writing process,

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that did become clear and then, all I thought was I really hope

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they go on this year because that will give them such an energy.

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And, of course, now we know that the James trilogy will play

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at the National Theatre in London slap bang in the middle of the vote.

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-Do you feel quite moved by that?

-It's...

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We're all just wondering what that is going to feel like.

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And we're all aware, I think, that the way the plays feel

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before the vote and after the vote will probably be quite different.

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See if that wind had a human face...

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..it would be glowering at me like you are.

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You are like a cold gale roaring in my eyes and shouting

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in my face, "Who do you think you are, laddie?" Well, I'll tell you.

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I'm your bloody king.

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I'm the King of Scots.

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The James plays transfer to the National Theatre

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in London next month.

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And you can see more online at bbc.co.uk/edinburghfestivals

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There is a new addition to the Edinburgh cityscape this year.

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After years of delay, worry and expense, the shiny new trams made

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their debut on the streets between the airport and the city centre.

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So we decided to give some unsuspecting passengers

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some special festival performances.

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Let's take a trip now in the company of former roofer,

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now full-time writer, the poet William Letford.

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There's hundreds of birds on the roofs.

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Here, how, choof, whoof!

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We won't let that pigeon preach the lovey-dovey,

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ruffle your feathers, show me your plume!

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Look at that, Frank. Not to look, not to not, plod on, then.

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Whoot, whoot! Look at that! That's not even a crow, that's a dinosaur!

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There will be teeth in that beak, that's for sure.

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Ooh, beady eye, beady eye, get behind the gable, she's fairly social.

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What a life, Frank, what a life.

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Feeding on scraps, hunting for crumbs. But listen to this.

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Listen to this. We're no dodos. We can fly. Forget what it feels like.

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Look at the sky.

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William Letford, who is appearing

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at the Edinburgh International Book Festival on Saturday.

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Now, the sheer scale of the Edinburgh Festivals can be

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rather daunting.

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With thousands of shows on offer, how do you decide what to see,

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and why do performers risk the ridicule of critics

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and return year after year?

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What are the essential dos and don'ts

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if you're in the capital for the first time?

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Stephen Smith's here now with his guide to surviving Edinburgh

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when the circus comes to town.

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UP-TEMPO JAZZ MUSIC

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DOG HOWLS

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Every year, a legion of weird

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and wonderful performers descend on this city with one purpose

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in mind, to persuade the likes of you and me to go and see their shows.

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There are circus acts, dancers, comics, thespians, divas,

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zombies and even ducks and dinosaurs on stage.

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There are more jokes being told here per square mile than anywhere

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else on the face of the earth.

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Some of them are even funny.

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LAUGHTER

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But if you're a festival virgin,

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what on Earth are you supposed to make of these florid flyers,

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each of them promising nothing less than a four or five-star show?

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How do you sift the diamonds from the dross?

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I think I'm going to need some help.

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HIS INNER VOICE: 'What?'

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'Where am I?'

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CELESTIAL VOCALISATION

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'What is this place?'

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-IN ECHOING VOICE:

-I am the King of Edinburgh.

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I am sending you on a sacred quest to discover the Holy Grail...

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-VOICE RETURNS TO NORMAL:

-Actually, just some shows and stuff in Edinburgh,

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and if you do all right, you can find a cup for me.

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Well, it's a wonder to meet you.

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By the way, has anyone ever told you you bear a small

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-resemblance to the comic Richard Herring?

-No, he wishes.

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He wishes he looked this good. He's much fatter than I am.

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Well, the thing is, Rich...

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Er, King, what I was hoping for was some kind of steer about this

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amazing festival. There's just so much to go to.

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How might a humble person find his way through it all?

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Well, you should definitely go and see Richard Herring's shows,

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-The Lord Of The Dance Settee.

-Is that you?

-No, just I'm a fan of his.

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OK. The festival is so huge now. Is it too much?

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Yeah, it is very big, and it's good in a lot of ways that there's

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so much choice, and what's great about Edinburgh as a festival

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is that anyone can come up. You don't have to pass committees.

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You are taking a chance up here,

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but to come to Edinburgh now to get discovered is foolish.

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You've got to come to Edinburgh...

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There's too many people here, so it might happen, but you're

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coming to Edinburgh to get better at what you do.

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-Well, thank you, my liege, if I can call you that.

-No.

-Oh.

1:43:081:43:12

Well, thank you, sire.

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But how do I get going on this quest of which you have spoken?

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Well, you're in totally the wrong place.

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We're on a hill in the middle of nowhere.

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You need to be right down there. Somewhere in there, that's the city.

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So, I don't know what brought you up here. Stupid.

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-Mystic forces, I believe, and a taxi.

-OK. Well, get the taxi back.

-OK.

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CRAZED WHISPERING

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This is very handy.

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What the... ?

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-BOTH CREATURES SPEAK AT SAME TIME:

-Hello!

-Hello.

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-Who are you?

-My name is Sergei and this is my brother Boris.

-Hello.

1:43:411:43:45

We have been sent by the King to take you on the next

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-stage of your mystical journey.

-Ooh!

-Is that right? Wow.

1:43:471:43:51

-This really is BBC Four.

-Yes.

-Oh, yeah, definitely is, yes.

1:43:511:43:55

-Where are we going to, boys?

-Take it away, Boris.

-Oh, thank you, Sergei.

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We are going to see the wise old sage of the festival.

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-He's very wise and very old.

-Let's go.

-OK, here we go!

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The prospect of staging a show in Edinburgh is a daunting one.

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But there's one man who's a real glutton for punishment,

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coming back year after year.

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I came up just after the war to the very first festival, when there were

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a number of shows which had engaged companies from abroad just

1:44:231:44:27

after the war to come over,

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and they had about two venues where they had things

1:44:291:44:31

called On The Fringe, and that fringe has now evolved

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and developed, till now there are over 2,000 shows On The Fringe.

1:44:371:44:42

We counted more than 3,000. What do you think about that?

1:44:421:44:45

It's amazing, isn't it? To me, it is the tail that wags the dog.

1:44:451:44:50

Now, you're a notorious hell-raiser, like O'Toole, Richard Harris.

1:44:501:44:54

-How do you pace yourself?

-Where did they find him?

-It's just research.

1:44:541:44:59

How do you pace yourself thorough the month or whatever it ends up

1:44:591:45:03

being, because you can't burn the candle every which way, can you?

1:45:031:45:07

Well, I do have a little secret.

1:45:071:45:09

-I take a little drug.

-Do you?

-Yes.

-This is a scoop.

-It's called sleep.

1:45:091:45:14

Ah. A lot of younger comedians will be tuning in to glean tips.

1:45:141:45:20

What would you say to them? How do you make it in Edinburgh?

1:45:201:45:24

-You just keep working.

-Right.

1:45:241:45:25

And if you can find Nicholas Parsons and say,

1:45:251:45:28

"Could I come on your show and talk about my...",

1:45:281:45:31

that's quite a good tip.

1:45:311:45:33

UP-TEMPO JAZZ MUSIC

1:45:331:45:34

But how do you increase your chances of having a hit?

1:45:371:45:39

After all, there are more than 3,000 shows on in Edinburgh,

1:45:391:45:43

and it's said you're never more than five metres away from a comedian

1:45:431:45:47

telling a joke about Scottish people not eating their veg.

1:45:471:45:50

Well, one answer might be to riff on an already established

1:45:501:45:54

and dearly loved franchise.

1:45:541:45:56

DRAMATIC PIANO

1:45:561:45:57

# No... #

1:45:591:46:00

There's a musical version of 50 Shades Of Grey.

1:46:001:46:05

# Da, da, da-duh-da... #

1:46:051:46:07

There's an all singing, all dancing Game Of Thrones.

1:46:071:46:11

# You are now, now rocking with

1:46:111:46:13

# Walter White and Jesse, bitch! Hit it! #

1:46:131:46:16

ELECTRONIC DANCE MUSIC

1:46:161:46:17

And a show that's condensed all the episodes of Breaking Bad

1:46:171:46:21

into an hour.

1:46:211:46:22

CHEERING

1:46:221:46:24

If you're a big enough name, you can

1:46:241:46:26

probably command a decent venue here, but lesser fry may have to

1:46:261:46:30

settle for something altogether more intimate, more moist.

1:46:301:46:34

Some venues are downright weird. I give you, for example,

1:46:341:46:39

a rickshaw...

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A giant purple cow...

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MOOING

1:46:461:46:47

In the sea...

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There's even one artiste here who performs under a duvet.

1:46:511:46:56

In a good way.

1:46:561:46:57

But what do locals make of this circus?

1:46:571:47:00

-Where are you from?

-Russia, Moscow.

1:47:001:47:03

Bristol.

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Manchester.

1:47:041:47:05

I live in Paris but originally from California.

1:47:051:47:08

-And what brings you to Edinburgh?

-The Fringe!

1:47:081:47:11

We've come from London.

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We're from Fareham in Hampshire.

1:47:131:47:14

From Japan.

1:47:141:47:16

Can't find anybody from Edinburgh.

1:47:161:47:19

My liege, you'll be pleased to hear I'm back.

1:47:221:47:24

I've been round the festival, I saw some of its great lessons.

1:47:241:47:29

-Do you have any final words of advice for me?

-Go and see some jugglers.

1:47:291:47:33

-ECHOING:

-Jugglers...

1:47:331:47:35

-Thank you.

-Nice to see you.

1:47:361:47:38

Stephen Smith there with the King of Edinburgh.

1:47:391:47:43

The Edinburgh Art Festival was established just ten years ago,

1:47:431:47:46

but now it takes place in more than 30 galleries,

1:47:461:47:49

museums and pop-up spaces.

1:47:491:47:51

Everything from Ming dynasty porcelain to pinball machines,

1:47:511:47:55

you can play the games but you can't touch the pots.

1:47:551:47:58

In a moment, one of the grand dame of contemporary art, we'll be

1:47:581:48:01

talking to Alastair Sooke, but first, here's his other top tips.

1:48:011:48:05

SCI-FI STYLE THERAMIN NOODLING

1:48:051:48:07

JANGLY TRIP HOP MUSIC

1:48:131:48:14

Surely art shows aren't meant to be like this.

1:48:171:48:20

You're not supposed to smile, you're not supposed to have fun,

1:48:201:48:24

you're definitely not supposed to touch the works.

1:48:241:48:27

But this is a whole different ball game.

1:48:291:48:31

At Summerhall, Brooklyn-based collective Fail have installed

1:48:331:48:37

their eye-popping, gleefully delinquent Deluxx Fluxx Arcade.

1:48:371:48:42

This doesn't remind me of my art history lectures, Patrick.

1:48:421:48:46

Well, that's true.

1:48:461:48:49

Right, 1-1.

1:48:491:48:50

Do you see it very much that this is a work of art?

1:48:501:48:53

Well, when I think about art as a kid, I think

1:48:531:48:56

a lot of the art that inspired us was, like, skateboard culture

1:48:561:49:00

and rock poster culture and commercial art.

1:49:001:49:04

-So a really pop culture sensibility.

-Right.

1:49:041:49:07

It does strike me that it

1:49:071:49:09

feels almost nostalgic in here in the arcade.

1:49:091:49:11

It's really retro machinery.

1:49:111:49:14

It's been described as nostalgic and kitsch and all those things.

1:49:141:49:19

But it was the first art show that we'd ever done where people came in

1:49:191:49:22

and were, like, screaming and yelling and laughing

1:49:221:49:25

and kids were having as much fun as the adults

1:49:251:49:27

and it was just such a great experience that

1:49:271:49:29

we're, like, this is a really awesome way to present art and this

1:49:291:49:33

is the fourth time we've done it and just always have fun doing it.

1:49:331:49:36

-So, fun is the main point?

-I think so, yeah.

1:49:361:49:39

If the streetwise sensibility of Deluxx Fluxx grabs you,

1:49:451:49:48

then another must-see show is at the Fruitmarket Gallery.

1:49:481:49:52

Jim Lambie is a bonafide international art star.

1:49:541:49:57

His candy-coloured, sight-specific installations

1:50:001:50:03

and ready-made scavenged objects have wowed the art world.

1:50:031:50:06

The great thing about a Jim Lambie exhibition is that you're not

1:50:061:50:10

just looking at work on a wall,

1:50:101:50:11

you actually get to walk across it as well.

1:50:111:50:14

His signature technique is to mark up the outlines of the room with

1:50:181:50:21

successive bands of vinyl tape.

1:50:211:50:24

The effect is a dazzling and disruptive centrifuge of colour

1:50:251:50:30

that transforms the typical white cube of a gallery.

1:50:301:50:33

The thing I like about Lambie's work is its ingenious

1:50:331:50:36

and enterprising, almost DIY aesthetic. Take this piece.

1:50:361:50:41

It's called Shaved Ice. A forest of ladders.

1:50:411:50:43

He's not using anything particularly special,

1:50:431:50:45

these are just ordinary everyday materials, wooden ladders,

1:50:451:50:49

glossy household paint, a few mirrors, and yet, out of them

1:50:491:50:52

he's creating something that feels very joyful, almost poetic.

1:50:521:50:56

It's like he's able to fashion just a little bit of magic

1:50:561:50:59

out of the mundane.

1:50:591:51:00

You don't have to walk into a gallery to catch some of the most

1:51:051:51:08

intriguing art of the festival.

1:51:081:51:09

In fact, some pretty unusual venues have been

1:51:091:51:12

transformed into immersive experiences.

1:51:121:51:15

Within a corner kick's distance of Hibs' Easter Road ground is

1:51:171:51:20

a TARDIS with a surprise inside.

1:51:201:51:23

-Hello. Yann!

-Yes.

-Great to meet you.

-Great to meet you.

1:51:271:51:31

This is slightly surreal. Is this is a real police box?

1:51:311:51:35

This is an original police box.

1:51:351:51:36

It's been here for decades, although a lot of people didn't really

1:51:361:51:39

notice it until we repainted it.

1:51:391:51:41

You didn't just repaint it by the looks of things!

1:51:411:51:43

We've put all these computer fans in here.

1:51:431:51:45

And what's the idea behind the piece?

1:51:451:51:47

The idea is that they will recreate the wind that's

1:51:471:51:50

happening in other places around the world.

1:51:501:51:52

My computer will look up the current weather right now

1:51:521:51:55

and these fans will recreate that much wind in this little box.

1:51:551:51:59

-Turn it on!

-All right, let's get it going.

1:51:591:52:02

Ooh.

1:52:021:52:03

Yeah, I can imagine that, being on the beach and there's a nice,

1:52:031:52:07

-cool sea breeze.

-Yeah, about the same, maybe a touch more.

1:52:071:52:10

So, this is probably in China, would be my guess.

1:52:101:52:14

And why have you picked the particular places that you have?

1:52:141:52:17

Well, two of them are places where these fans have been made.

1:52:171:52:21

A lot of these are made in South East Asia,

1:52:211:52:23

and these factories can make 20 million of these fans every month.

1:52:231:52:26

This is a piece that really

1:52:261:52:27

is about our connection to the world and how we use technology

1:52:271:52:30

and how we discard it and how we can reappropriate it

1:52:301:52:33

and make it ours again.

1:52:331:52:35

It's a really lovely idea,

1:52:351:52:36

and I had no idea I'd be off to China this morning.

1:52:361:52:39

Well, yeah, you don't even have to pay a plane ticket.

1:52:391:52:42

-I might leave you in your police box.

-All right.

1:52:421:52:45

-I'm just going to cool down for a little while in here.

-OK. Bye.

1:52:451:52:48

All right. See you later.

1:52:481:52:50

Appearances can be deceptive.

1:52:521:52:54

Just as the cramped confines of a police box can take us

1:52:541:52:58

to far flung corners of the world, so the grand

1:52:581:53:00

facade of the Inverleith House Gallery at the heart

1:53:001:53:02

of Edinburgh's tranquil botanic gardens belies some surprising

1:53:021:53:06

art that you would hardly call polite.

1:53:061:53:08

I love coming to Inverleith House during the festival,

1:53:091:53:12

because the artists that come here usually conform

1:53:121:53:14

to a particular type. They're wild and raucous

1:53:141:53:17

and they've got more than a little whiff of anarchy about them.

1:53:171:53:20

The German artist Isa Genzken, who was born in 1948, well,

1:53:201:53:23

she's no exception.

1:53:231:53:25

PSYCHEDELIC MUSIC

1:53:251:53:27

Her witty, unconventional works of art are all about a surprising

1:53:301:53:34

freedom of expression and the liberating,

1:53:341:53:37

sometimes disturbing power of creativity.

1:53:371:53:39

There's a real precariousness, a kind of volatility to Genzken's

1:53:441:53:47

work that, for me, gives it a devil may care energy, because at

1:53:471:53:51

first glance, it looks so chaotic,

1:53:511:53:54

it could be almost about to disintegrate before our eyes,

1:53:541:53:57

and yet, somehow, against the odds, it still coheres.

1:53:571:54:02

That's partly because of the colour scheme, and in this case,

1:54:021:54:05

also the imagery, which seems to be associated with womanhood.

1:54:051:54:08

You have self portrait, Medusa's head, female genitalia,

1:54:081:54:12

stand-ins for that, even Leonardo's drawing of a foetus.

1:54:121:54:16

And together, these things combine to give the piece

1:54:161:54:19

a sense of order and consistency.

1:54:191:54:21

Back at Summerhall,

1:54:261:54:27

there's a show by another influential artist of the same

1:54:271:54:29

generation whose career has also been dedicated to a restless

1:54:291:54:33

investigation of the hidden undercurrents of human life.

1:54:331:54:36

Born in Florida, just a few years before Isa Genzken, Susan Hiller

1:54:381:54:42

studied anthropology before moving to London and becoming an artist.

1:54:421:54:47

Her exhibition includes the premiere of her Resounding video work.

1:54:471:54:52

MALE VOICE IN VIDEO: 'I saw in the sky a cigar-shaped object,

1:54:521:54:56

'blue-red in colour.'

1:54:561:54:58

This mesmerizing piece combines the faint traces of the Big Bang

1:54:581:55:02

detected by scientific instruments with eye-witness

1:55:021:55:05

accounts of extra-terrestrial experiences.

1:55:051:55:09

You have this sense, I guess, of deep time,

1:55:091:55:11

going back to the Big Bang and then a sense of the here and now

1:55:111:55:14

and people and their encounters - close encounters

1:55:141:55:17

of the third kind, as it were.

1:55:171:55:19

Why are you meshing those two things together?

1:55:191:55:21

Well, it's about how we understand the universe.

1:55:211:55:25

And our understanding is extremely partial and small,

1:55:251:55:30

and we sometimes have experiences that take us out of an

1:55:301:55:36

everyday-ness, that where they seem to take us is into these stories.

1:55:361:55:40

And I guess what I'm hoping people will do is sit back

1:55:401:55:44

and enjoy the film, enjoy the visuals and reflect on these things,

1:55:441:55:50

these elements and how they may or may not go together.

1:55:501:55:53

One of the big themes you've been talking about,

1:55:531:55:55

interest in the occult, mysticism, a sort of spirituality,

1:55:551:55:58

a sense of the paranormal.

1:55:581:56:00

Why have these things been career-long interests?

1:56:001:56:04

Probably because I don't think that they're "paranormal",

1:56:041:56:08

and because I'm not a believer either in them as any more truthful.

1:56:081:56:15

But one of the things you learn in anthropology is that every

1:56:151:56:19

language, every culture has its own world, its own reality.

1:56:191:56:24

Do we, as a culture, put too much stress on rationality?

1:56:241:56:27

Rationality is a very useful tool,

1:56:271:56:30

and so is intuition.

1:56:301:56:32

And I guess I value the intuitive side of things enough to want

1:56:321:56:36

to bring them up in general conversation.

1:56:361:56:40

Do you feel that that intuitive side is dismissed,

1:56:401:56:43

written off, too frequently?

1:56:431:56:44

-Of course it is.

-Why do you think that is?

1:56:441:56:46

It's not if men pursue it, but it is if women pursue it.

1:56:461:56:50

I don't need to say any more, do I?

1:56:531:56:55

I think you probably have a point.

1:56:551:56:57

INDISTINCT VOICES FROM INSTALLATION

1:56:581:57:01

Susan Hiller's exhibition continues at Summerhall until 26th September.

1:57:031:57:07

Time now to hop back in the tram for a performance from the talented

1:57:071:57:11

young guitarist Declan Zapala.

1:57:111:57:13

Declan Zapala, who's performing at The Fringe until next Saturday.

1:59:091:59:13

This year's festival has a South African feel,

1:59:131:59:16

with a raft of productions celebrating a momentous

1:59:161:59:19

anniversary, but also reminding us of a troubled past.

1:59:191:59:22

TRADITIONAL SINGING

1:59:241:59:26

It's two decades since South Africa's first

1:59:291:59:32

fully-democratic elections marked the end of the apartheid era.

1:59:321:59:35

This year in Edinburgh, a season of South African productions

1:59:371:59:40

marks the 20th anniversary of the country's momentous shift

1:59:401:59:43

towards racial equality and democracy.

1:59:431:59:46

The most hotly-anticipated piece

1:59:481:59:49

of South African work is the world premier of the innovative Inala.

1:59:491:59:53

TRADITIONAL MUSIC

1:59:551:59:57

Grammy Award winning choir Ladysmith Black Mambazo creates a live

1:59:592:00:03

score for dancers from the Rambert and the Royal Ballet,

2:00:032:00:06

choreographed by Mark Baldwin.

2:00:062:00:08

I am inspired by music.

2:00:092:00:12

I need to listen to it till I'm blue in the face,

2:00:122:00:14

and then I need to move around to it.

2:00:142:00:16

I think this music has really come alive

2:00:162:00:19

because there's dancing with it.

2:00:192:00:21

I don't know why,

2:00:212:00:22

and when I did hear the music without seeing dancing to it,

2:00:222:00:25

I was thinking, "Oh, yes, that's beautiful."

2:00:252:00:28

But actually, it's more than beautiful cos there's dancing

2:00:282:00:31

with it, and I don't often say that.

2:00:312:00:33

Over five years in the making, Inala is the brain child of dancer

2:00:372:00:40

Pietra Mello Pittman and composer Ella Spira.

2:00:402:00:44

I had always wanted to, perhaps slightly arrogantly,

2:00:442:00:49

try and find something that I could approach

2:00:492:00:51

Ladysmith Black Mambazo with,

2:00:512:00:53

cos I grew up listening to a lot of different kinds of music,

2:00:532:00:56

including African.

2:00:562:00:58

So it partly came out of that for me, and Pietra's Brazilian,

2:00:582:01:02

so her connection with that similar kind of rhythmical thing,

2:01:022:01:07

that we thought there might be something there to explore my area,

2:01:072:01:11

which is music and her area, which was dance and this bringing

2:01:112:01:14

together of two things that don't ordinarily exist together.

2:01:142:01:17

The dancers are from a variety of backgrounds.

2:01:222:01:25

They include the principal of the Royal Ballet in London,

2:01:252:01:27

and also South Africans trained in contemporary

2:01:272:01:30

and traditional African dance.

2:01:302:01:32

African dance is a big part of culture in South Africa,

2:01:322:01:35

so all the moves they do, we learned when we were young already.

2:01:352:01:40

And then I started doing ballet, I stated doing contemporary,

2:01:402:01:43

but it's in my blood...it's still there.

2:01:432:01:47

So when we're in the creation process, they'll come up with

2:01:472:01:50

some steps and they will show us some steps, and I'll be like,

2:01:502:01:53

"Yes! I remember this! This is so cool!"

2:01:532:01:55

Inala represents an uplifting fusion of African and Western cultures,

2:01:572:02:02

but in his live installation "Exhibit B",

2:02:022:02:05

the artist Brett Bailey explores a more troubling

2:02:052:02:07

aspect of African history,

2:02:072:02:10

the issue of racial stereotyping

2:02:102:02:11

across the continent in the European colonial era.

2:02:112:02:15

Exhibit B, on one level it's about colonial history,

2:02:162:02:19

on another level it's about how black people, brown people,

2:02:192:02:22

"the other" has been misrepresented in order to legitimise

2:02:222:02:26

colonial policies so that they can be reduced to servitude, dehumanised,

2:02:262:02:31

objectified, their territory can be taken away from them,

2:02:312:02:33

and ultimately they can be exterminated.

2:02:332:02:36

CHOIR SINGING

2:02:362:02:38

Audience members experience each installation in small groups,

2:02:432:02:47

and Bailey encourages his actors to

2:02:472:02:49

make direct eye contact with each person.

2:02:492:02:52

In the human zoo phenomenon, the emphasis was

2:02:522:02:54

definitely on the white spectator gazing at the dark other.

2:02:542:02:58

I put the emphasis on my performers, who are black people,

2:02:582:03:01

looking back at the audience.

2:03:012:03:03

It's about reversing it.

2:03:032:03:04

So I'm dealing with the human being as an object,

2:03:042:03:06

the way of...subverting that, is to really humanise these objects.

2:03:062:03:12

CHOIR SINGING

2:03:122:03:15

Accompanying the installations is the haunting

2:03:202:03:23

sound of a Namibian choir.

2:03:232:03:25

As a spectator, you walk through an installation where

2:03:252:03:27

there are 12 or 13 separate exhibitions,

2:03:272:03:30

but what holds everything together

2:03:302:03:32

and what gives it this emotional quality is this exquisite singing.

2:03:322:03:36

It creates the atmosphere and the environment.

2:03:362:03:40

CHOIR SINGING

2:03:402:03:42

A lot of people are very deeply moved -

2:03:422:03:44

some people break down and cry.

2:03:442:03:45

We've had stories of people who have just walked for several hours,

2:03:452:03:48

into the night just to contemplate. So people are deeply moved.

2:03:482:03:52

The Assembly is showcasing some of South Africa's best

2:03:552:03:58

contemporary playwriting.

2:03:582:04:00

They feature five productions, one of which stars movie actor

2:04:002:04:03

and singer Mbongeni Ngema,

2:04:032:04:05

who's decided to return to the stage for the first

2:04:052:04:08

time in 27 years.

2:04:082:04:10

Zulu means "heaven".

2:04:112:04:15

Kwazulu means "in heaven".

2:04:152:04:17

We call ourselves Abakwa Zulu,

2:04:172:04:20

the Zulus, or the little children of the sky.

2:04:202:04:24

In his play, Ngema explores an area of South African history

2:04:242:04:27

neglected under apartheid, the formation of the Zulu nation

2:04:272:04:31

and its struggles for survival.

2:04:312:04:33

Our heritage has became very important.

2:04:332:04:36

Young people are now wanting to know, "Who are we?

2:04:362:04:38

"Where did we come from?"

2:04:382:04:40

Unfortunately, during apartheid, this history was not taught,

2:04:402:04:43

it was the history of the Afrikaners that was taught,

2:04:432:04:46

so the Zulu is one of those leading projects

2:04:462:04:49

in re-telling our histories.

2:04:492:04:52

THEY EXCLAIM IN OWN LANGUAGE

2:04:532:04:55

The inspiration for the work came from stories

2:04:572:04:59

his great grandmother used to tell him as a child.

2:04:592:05:02

I didn't understand what she was talking about.

2:05:022:05:04

It was not until later on in my life,

2:05:042:05:07

when I began to be an artist, that these

2:05:072:05:09

stories started coming back to me,

2:05:092:05:11

and I realised how important it was that she was saying to me.

2:05:112:05:15

THEY SPEAK IN OWN LANGUAGE

2:05:172:05:19

'It's about Zulu renaissance,

2:05:212:05:23

'and Zulu resilience.'

2:05:232:05:25

It's about the state of mind, the state of victory,

2:05:252:05:29

the state of winning.

2:05:292:05:30

In a democratic society today, if we can all, as Africans,

2:05:302:05:34

have the Zulu state of mind,

2:05:342:05:36

we can win whatever battles we fight.

2:05:362:05:39

CHOIR SINGS

2:05:392:05:42

In post-apartheid South Africa, the fight against crime has been

2:05:422:05:45

a major preoccupation.

2:05:452:05:48

The play Silent Voice tackles the issue

2:05:482:05:51

of armed robbery among young black men.

2:05:512:05:53

Where I grew up,

2:05:532:05:55

there are a lot of guys that I went to school with being

2:05:552:05:57

involved in cash-in-transit robberies,

2:05:572:06:00

and some of them are in jail, some of them are dead,

2:06:002:06:03

so some of those stories have rubbed off onto the story of Silent Voice.

2:06:032:06:07

So it's fictional, but inspired by real events that happened.

2:06:072:06:10

Please, spare my life!

2:06:102:06:12

SHOUTING

2:06:122:06:15

The play deals with the fallout of a raid gone wrong

2:06:172:06:19

and the consequences for the four men involved.

2:06:192:06:23

These boys that are growing without fathers

2:06:232:06:25

and just the results of apartheid,

2:06:252:06:27

where fathers had to go and work out there,

2:06:272:06:29

where families were not stable,

2:06:292:06:31

where people had been turning against each other,

2:06:312:06:33

so it is all those stories that come to make the story

2:06:332:06:36

of Silent Voice explode like that.

2:06:362:06:39

Please keep your head down. Keep your head down.

2:06:392:06:41

I'm self-employed, you see, which is a shit job because, now and then,

2:06:412:06:44

you have to run away from the cops, shoot at them or they shoot at you,

2:06:442:06:48

and God willing, you survive or you die.

2:06:482:06:51

So how healthy a state is South African theatre in

2:06:512:06:54

two decades on from the fall of apartheid?

2:06:542:06:57

South African theatre is well and alive and it's finding its feet,

2:06:572:07:00

but I think that this year,

2:07:002:07:01

as we celebrate 20 years of democracy and freedom,

2:07:012:07:04

we can safely say that South African theatre is more relevant.

2:07:042:07:08

SHOUTING

2:07:082:07:10

You can see more from South Africa online

2:07:162:07:18

and Inala transfers to Sadler's Wells in London next month.

2:07:182:07:22

We're back in the trams now, but staying with our South Africa theme.

2:07:222:07:25

The Dloko High School choir has never been outside Umlazi

2:07:252:07:28

township before, but this month they're in Edinburgh

2:07:282:07:31

performing to raise money for community projects back home

2:07:312:07:34

and they're creating quite a stir.

2:07:342:07:36

THEY SING IN OWN LANGUAGE

2:07:382:07:41

The amazing Township Voices are at the Assembly Rooms until Thursday.

2:09:042:09:09

Now, there is one Edinburgh venue that has propelled itself from very

2:09:092:09:13

humble beginnings to become a very powerful presence in three decades.

2:09:132:09:17

The Pleasance opened in 1985 with just 2 theatres and 18 shows,

2:09:172:09:22

and now it sells one Fringe ticket in five

2:09:222:09:24

and helped launched the careers of people like Graham Norton,

2:09:242:09:27

Miranda Hart and Michael McIntyre.

2:09:272:09:29

To help celebrate its 30th anniversary,

2:09:292:09:31

Pleasance veteran Arthur Smith takes us

2:09:312:09:34

through this venue's amazing history.

2:09:342:09:36

Edinburgh in August, where you're never more

2:09:412:09:43

than 15 feet from a drama student in period costume.

2:09:432:09:47

The Edinburgh Festival and it's Fringe provides one of the great

2:09:472:09:50

playgrounds of the imagination.

2:09:502:09:52

I've been here nearly every year

2:09:522:09:54

since 1977 with a whole range of shows

2:09:542:09:56

and there's one venue I keep coming back to.

2:09:562:09:59

Welcome to this great thriving hub of the Edinburgh Fringe

2:10:072:10:10

and one of my favourite places on Earth,

2:10:102:10:12

the Pleasance and its courtyard.

2:10:122:10:15

Over the last 30 years, the Pleasance has welcomed countless fresh-faced,

2:10:172:10:22

keen young comics on stage and helped turn a few of them

2:10:222:10:26

into household names.

2:10:262:10:28

To me, it's a sort of courtyard of dreams.

2:10:282:10:31

The buzz of all these different people moving through it,

2:10:312:10:34

and just the sense that it really was the coolest place to be.

2:10:342:10:38

I've had some of the greatest highs of my life at the Pleasance

2:10:402:10:43

and some of the worst lows.

2:10:432:10:44

I don't think there's a toilet I haven't cried in.

2:10:442:10:47

There hasn't been a cobble I've not splashed lager on or a tear.

2:10:472:10:51

LAUGHTER

2:10:512:10:53

Every single kind of performer you can imagine,

2:10:532:10:55

every famous comedian, was packed into this courtyard,

2:10:552:10:59

just downing pints of filthy-looking beer.

2:10:592:11:02

The Pleasance is so popular with performers

2:11:042:11:06

and punters that, this year, there are 227 shows across 27 venues.

2:11:062:11:12

So, on an average day,

2:11:122:11:13

they've got 30,000 people streaming through their doors.

2:11:132:11:17

Queues can be long.

2:11:172:11:19

You never quite know who or what you're going to see here.

2:11:192:11:23

-Excellent.

-It's a play about... Just over there.

2:11:232:11:27

-Lovely.

-..with cross-dressing women.

2:11:272:11:29

Excellent. Thank you very much, madam.

2:11:292:11:31

Good day to you.

2:11:312:11:33

And I always manage to bump into a few old friends,

2:11:332:11:36

here in this courtyard.

2:11:362:11:37

I always thought I'd attract a stalker.

2:11:372:11:39

No, no, I'm not a stalker.

2:11:392:11:41

I just have an unhealthy interest in you.

2:11:412:11:43

LAUGHTER

2:11:432:11:45

-What's the difference?

-A stalker would get more exercise.

2:11:452:11:49

Well, clearly you've had issues.

2:11:492:11:52

I do not have issues, mate.

2:11:522:11:55

My life is way more normal than yours.

2:11:552:11:57

For a start, I'm not the one with a stranger in my hotel room.

2:11:572:12:01

-Paul, what was your first show here? Do you remember?

-1986.

2:12:022:12:05

Myself and Mark Steel had an idea that perhaps we'd come up to

2:12:052:12:08

Edinburgh, but we didn't know anybody up here.

2:12:082:12:11

There was this guy in a straw hat, Christopher Richardson,

2:12:112:12:13

who we didn't know, and he said, "Come and play my venue."

2:12:132:12:16

We thought we would have to go in and try and argue

2:12:162:12:18

that somebody should take us.

2:12:182:12:19

He said, "No, come and play. It'll be great."

2:12:192:12:22

I'm guessing you played some smaller venues here first

2:12:222:12:24

and play bigger ones now.

2:12:242:12:26

-The first...

-None of them are that big, but...

2:12:262:12:28

Well, yes, that's right.

2:12:282:12:29

The first one we played here is now the cabaret bar.

2:12:292:12:31

I'm not even sure that was called anything then.

2:12:312:12:34

I've directed a play up in the attic, which seats about 50 people.

2:12:342:12:38

You must have done a few unusual events and shows.

2:12:382:12:40

Yes, there was one night, there was this sort of informal cabaret thing,

2:12:402:12:44

where myself and Julian Clary decided to go on

2:12:442:12:46

and do each other's acts.

2:12:462:12:48

So he went on and did my stuff and I went on and said,

2:12:482:12:50

"Hello, how are you?" And all that sort of stuff and...

2:12:502:12:53

That's quite a good...

2:12:532:12:54

Yeah. I wouldn't have suggested it otherwise.

2:12:542:12:57

-How was Julian doing you?

-Oh, well, you know,

2:12:572:13:00

his impression of a heterosexual man is quite strange.

2:13:002:13:04

It's a friendly, lively, beautiful place.

2:13:042:13:07

I wouldn't really play anywhere else, really, in Edinburgh.

2:13:072:13:10

This place would not exist were it not for founder

2:13:152:13:18

Christopher Richardson, the man in the Panama hat.

2:13:182:13:23

Christopher, when you first thought,

2:13:232:13:25

"All right, I'll book that place the Pleasance and see what happens"

2:13:252:13:29

30 years ago, did you...?

2:13:292:13:31

You can't have imagined all this.

2:13:312:13:33

No, I certainly didn't.

2:13:332:13:34

I thought we might keep going to the end of the year

2:13:342:13:36

and the end of the following year.

2:13:362:13:38

But how many venues were there at the beginning?

2:13:382:13:40

Just the two. Yeah, there was the big one upstairs,

2:13:402:13:43

which was 250 seats, which we increased,

2:13:432:13:45

and then there was a cabaret bar.

2:13:452:13:47

I think one thing that Pleasance has that the other venues don't

2:13:472:13:50

so much is the kind of wonderful courtyard here you've got.

2:13:502:13:53

It's such a wonderful place to meet people

2:13:532:13:55

and for audiences to meet actors and performers and whatnot.

2:13:552:14:00

-That was kind of luck, in a way, was it?

-Absolute luck.

2:14:002:14:02

There was this place that had a courtyard,

2:14:022:14:05

it looked slightly like Hogwarts or whatever,

2:14:052:14:08

and it was a wonderful place to do things.

2:14:082:14:10

We've had things happening in the middle

2:14:102:14:12

when there were rather less people coming to see things.

2:14:122:14:16

We've had performances in the yard itself, which annoyed

2:14:162:14:18

the neighbours and annoyed most of the people performing,

2:14:182:14:21

so we've had to change that.

2:14:212:14:22

And there was a lovely lady called Betty Brown,

2:14:222:14:24

who lived in a tiny little flat on top of the Pleasance,

2:14:242:14:27

and one day she sort of flung open the window

2:14:272:14:30

and served a pint of beer through the window...

2:14:302:14:33

and the outside bar has sort of grown out of that.

2:14:332:14:35

There's a moment, about seven o'clock in the evening,

2:14:352:14:38

when you look across and you see the sun on the edge of that Quaker hall,

2:14:382:14:42

and you think, "Gosh, this is a good place to be."

2:14:422:14:45

Will you please welcome onto the stage,

2:14:462:14:48

and this year's 1995 Perrier Award winner, Jenny Eclair?

2:14:482:14:53

Many comedians have broken through with shows honed at the Pleasance,

2:14:532:14:56

including the first woman to win the Fringe's top comedy award.

2:14:562:15:00

The Pleasance really helped me

2:15:002:15:02

in my career because they invited me back, they would have me,

2:15:022:15:07

and I think that it's quite important in Edinburgh to set

2:15:072:15:10

yourself... You know, to go back and then people go,

2:15:102:15:14

"Oh, we saw her last year, she was good."

2:15:142:15:16

And then the word of mouth and, pre-Twitter,

2:15:162:15:18

the courtyard was its very own Twittersphere,

2:15:182:15:21

really, because word of mouth goes around

2:15:212:15:24

very quickly in a sort of walled garden.

2:15:242:15:27

For the League of Gentlemen,

2:15:292:15:31

getting a gig at the Pleasance in 1995 was a dream come true.

2:15:312:15:37

We were given a slot in the Pleasance attic,

2:15:372:15:41

which was the smallest venue, but in the Pleasance,

2:15:412:15:44

which felt like it made all the difference and indeed it did.

2:15:442:15:48

It was that rare thing. It was a sort of Edinburgh fairy tale.

2:15:482:15:51

By the end of our stint there, we had a radio show

2:15:512:15:56

and Reeves and Mortimer's agent.

2:15:562:15:59

I mean, one of my best memories is, after we'd won the Perrier in '97,

2:15:592:16:04

the next day, the show the next day,

2:16:042:16:06

we looked out and the queue was immense.

2:16:062:16:09

But right in the middle of it, I just went, "It's Ronnie Corbett!"

2:16:092:16:14

-I've never got over that.

-HE LAUGHS

2:16:142:16:17

The Pleasance encourages comedy as an art form,

2:16:172:16:19

not just as a way of making money.

2:16:192:16:23

You know? It's a kind of...

2:16:232:16:24

The idea is that you're trying to do something new,

2:16:242:16:27

you're trying to do something that you believe in,

2:16:272:16:30

and the form of it is not necessarily...

2:16:302:16:32

It doesn't have to be a guy at a microphone,

2:16:322:16:34

it doesn't have to be this or that. It's a bit more...

2:16:342:16:37

..adventurous.

2:16:382:16:39

Now, all around the venue, you can spot tributes

2:16:392:16:42

to the host of stars that kicked off their careers here.

2:16:422:16:45

Oh, all these plaques everywhere, I thought, "Where's my plaque?"

2:16:452:16:49

I asked Anthony, and lo and behold, at the bottom of a cupboard,

2:16:492:16:52

he found this blue plaque for me.

2:16:522:16:56

Yes, they haven't put it up or anything,

2:16:562:16:58

it's the wrong venue and the wrong year.

2:16:582:16:59

But never mind. I'm a plaque in the Pleasance.

2:16:592:17:03

We owe it all so much to the Pleasance,

2:17:072:17:09

and that whole, unique atmosphere of the place.

2:17:092:17:12

It was just a kind of hothouse of excitement, really.

2:17:122:17:16

It's still the first place I head for when I go to Edinburgh.

2:17:162:17:19

You know, if I'm feeling a bit by myself

2:17:192:17:21

and I've got some time to myself,

2:17:212:17:23

want to see some shows, then I will go there.

2:17:232:17:26

OK, well, Anthony and Christopher,

2:17:262:17:30

I'd like to pour this champagne all over your...

2:17:302:17:33

All over the suit that I gather you've had for 30 years.

2:17:332:17:37

-Your very good health.

-30 years of the Pleasance. Bravo.

2:17:372:17:41

And Arthur Smith himself is back at the Pleasance this year,

2:17:412:17:44

performing the songs of Leonard Cohen from next Friday.

2:17:442:17:48

Unsurprisingly at this year's festival,

2:17:482:17:50

there's a whole host of productions

2:17:502:17:52

relating to next month's independence referendum,

2:17:522:17:55

from debates at the book festival, to plays, to sketch comedy,

2:17:552:17:59

members of the cultural community

2:17:592:18:00

are all wading into the referendum debate.

2:18:002:18:03

So, what is the role of artists and writers at a time like this?

2:18:032:18:07

This year at the Fringe,

2:18:102:18:12

it seems there's one topic on everyone's lips.

2:18:122:18:14

Tonight, we're going to be looking at politics.

2:18:152:18:17

We're going to be looking at the big question, the burning issue.

2:18:172:18:20

-We're going to be having a mass debate.

-Can I stop you there?

2:18:202:18:23

LAUGHTER

2:18:232:18:25

With the Scottish referendum just over a month away, writers,

2:18:252:18:29

artists and performers across the city have plunged into the debate.

2:18:292:18:33

Oh, my God, when recession hits here,

2:18:332:18:35

you'll wish the English were still with yous.

2:18:352:18:37

LAUGHTER

2:18:372:18:38

One venue, the Assembly Rooms,

2:18:382:18:40

has eight shows tackling the issue, through comedy, cabaret and theatre.

2:18:402:18:45

In his one-man show, The Pitiless Storm,

2:18:452:18:49

David Hayman plays a Labour activist

2:18:492:18:51

who undergoes a political conversion.

2:18:512:18:54

Boris and Nigel Farage

2:18:542:18:56

and Jack "Nippy Sweetie" Straw

2:18:562:18:58

and their zero-hours contracts and their food banks

2:18:582:19:01

and their destruction of everything that is good and dear in humanity.

2:19:012:19:05

So yes, thank you, thank you, Westminster,

2:19:052:19:09

and the great British Commonwealth.

2:19:092:19:12

What do you think is the role of writers, artists, performers,

2:19:122:19:17

in a time of change in a country?

2:19:172:19:20

Well, I think the artist's job at any time in any society is,

2:19:222:19:26

I mean, a real cliche of putting a mirror up to society.

2:19:262:19:29

I love that Scotland is going through an extraordinary period right now,

2:19:292:19:32

where people are debating, discussing, arguing the toss

2:19:322:19:35

in pubs and clubs and workplaces around the country,

2:19:352:19:38

and if we, the performing artists or visual artists or novelists,

2:19:382:19:42

can embody that with a little bit more clarity, aye.

2:19:422:19:46

I'd like to think we're going to make a difference.

2:19:462:19:48

What if Scotland votes yes?

2:19:482:19:49

-SHE GASPS

-Jings, crivens, help ma Boab, son.

2:19:492:19:53

Well, Bogle, do you see all of this...

2:19:532:19:55

Tartan.

2:19:552:19:56

Heather.

2:19:562:19:58

Braveheart.

2:19:582:19:59

Bagpipes.

2:19:592:20:00

Tunnock's tea cakes!

2:20:002:20:01

LAUGHTER

2:20:012:20:03

In The Pure, The Dead And The Brilliant,

2:20:032:20:06

playwright Alan Bissett imagines how Scotland's mythical creatures

2:20:062:20:09

would feel about the referendum.

2:20:092:20:11

Scotland will have become...real!

2:20:112:20:15

Too real for us, son.

2:20:152:20:19

They decide to campaign on behalf of a No vote

2:20:192:20:23

and use various enchantments and spells. It's a comedy,

2:20:232:20:27

but underneath it, you know,

2:20:272:20:28

there's serious questions being asked.

2:20:282:20:31

Do you think that there appear to be more people

2:20:312:20:33

in the creative community prepared to say

2:20:332:20:35

that they support independence than there are

2:20:352:20:38

those who say they support the United Kingdom?

2:20:382:20:41

I think it's fair to say that there are more people

2:20:412:20:43

in the creative community who are voting Yes.

2:20:432:20:47

If you look at the nature of what artists do,

2:20:472:20:49

we're interested in risk and experimentation

2:20:492:20:53

and doing things anew,

2:20:532:20:56

which is really what independence is about, actually.

2:20:562:20:59

Loud voices in favour of a No vote are much harder to come by.

2:21:032:21:07

Author Denise Mina, who will be appearing at the book festival,

2:21:072:21:11

is concerned about the decibel level of the Yes campaign.

2:21:112:21:15

I had to come out as a No voter,

2:21:152:21:17

because people were quoting me as if I supported the Yes campaign.

2:21:172:21:23

So I was forced to out myself. I had to say to them,

2:21:232:21:25

"I'm a No voter. Leave me alone."

2:21:252:21:27

I mean, artists make terrible pundits, because, you know,

2:21:272:21:30

you get trapped in this pundits' conundrum,

2:21:302:21:32

where you're on a stage discussing the world economy

2:21:322:21:34

over the next 15 years, and you're a portrait painter.

2:21:342:21:37

You don't know what you're talking about.

2:21:372:21:39

Why do you think it seems that the majority of

2:21:392:21:42

the creative community is for a Yes vote?

2:21:422:21:45

I think it is that the Yes vote is more vocal.

2:21:452:21:48

They're pushing for change.

2:21:482:21:50

It's very hard to argue for the status quo.

2:21:502:21:52

The status quo is not sexy, it's not interesting,

2:21:522:21:55

and I kind of worry that there is a bit of a consensus,

2:21:552:21:58

and consensus is never good in the arts.

2:21:582:22:00

Ladies and gentlemen,

2:22:002:22:02

please welcome to the stage Erich McElroy!

2:22:022:22:04

CHEERING

2:22:042:22:06

American Erich McElroy is one comedian on the fringe

2:22:062:22:09

taking a definite No stance...

2:22:092:22:11

Hello!

2:22:112:22:12

..in his show, The British Referendum.

2:22:122:22:15

Emigrating here and having gotten my British passport in 2007,

2:22:152:22:18

I feel a connection to being British.

2:22:182:22:19

So I saw this as 10% of the country being torn away.

2:22:192:22:23

You know, you would notice if 10% of you was torn away.

2:22:232:22:26

Although I could probably use 10% of me torn away!

2:22:262:22:29

So, that seemed to have an impact.

2:22:292:22:31

It's not actually the first time I've done a show like this.

2:22:312:22:34

I actually did a show during the Crimea referendum,

2:22:342:22:36

and that turned out really well(!)

2:22:362:22:38

You're almost dropping a kind of hand grenade

2:22:382:22:40

in the kind of creative, as it were, establishment,

2:22:402:22:42

who are supporting the Yes campaign.

2:22:422:22:44

It seems so.

2:22:442:22:46

I didn't realise that I would become what appears to be

2:22:462:22:48

the only No comedy show of the festival.

2:22:482:22:50

I've been surprised to see how much the Yes side seems to be

2:22:502:22:54

in the artistic community, or that people who feel No

2:22:542:22:57

don't feel like they can come forward, for some reason.

2:22:572:22:59

Outside of Scotland, some surprising names have backed

2:23:032:23:06

the Better Together campaign, from Eddie Izzard

2:23:062:23:09

to Trinny and Susannah.

2:23:092:23:11

David Bowie even asked Scotland to stay with us.

2:23:142:23:17

The inspiration behind David Greig's All Back To Bowie's,

2:23:172:23:20

a lunchtime variety show supposedly set in the singer's penthouse.

2:23:202:23:25

I feel we should ask you the very, very important question

2:23:252:23:27

and find out whether you are Yes or No.

2:23:272:23:30

And that question is...

2:23:312:23:33

Do you agree that David Bowie should be pronounced "BOUGH-ie"?

2:23:332:23:38

LAUGHTER

2:23:382:23:40

But why have so few of Edinburgh's performers

2:23:402:23:42

been willing to announce themselves as No voters?

2:23:422:23:46

Is it that people feel that they're going to be somehow demonised,

2:23:462:23:49

that it is somehow less noble to be supporting

2:23:492:23:52

the idea of the United Kingdom?

2:23:522:23:54

I think that's actually a mask for the fact that the No campaign

2:23:542:23:58

don't have many artists and creative types they can call upon.

2:23:582:24:02

For whatever reason, they might feel that

2:24:022:24:04

they are embarrassed by their own voting intention,

2:24:042:24:08

or that they don't want to have to defend it publicly,

2:24:082:24:13

and they use this idea that,

2:24:132:24:15

"Oh, we're too intimidated to come out and speak."

2:24:152:24:18

But there is a danger that the tenor of that debate becomes ugly.

2:24:182:24:23

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

2:24:232:24:24

But people care very passionately about these things.

2:24:242:24:27

The author JK Rowling has given £1 million

2:24:282:24:31

to the campaign against Scottish independence.

2:24:312:24:34

The Harry Potter creator's support of the Better Together campaign

2:24:342:24:37

led to a barrage of abuse

2:24:372:24:39

from the vast virtual debating hall that is Twitter.

2:24:392:24:43

People who cannot participate in political debate

2:24:432:24:45

have taken over a lot of the ground.

2:24:452:24:48

They get straight on Twitter and start swearing at people.

2:24:482:24:50

This is on both sides.

2:24:502:24:52

And they will never, ever forgive you.

2:24:522:24:55

As an artist, though, does it silence you, the threat of it?

2:24:552:24:58

It certainly makes you wary.

2:24:582:24:59

You think, I don't want to offend people.

2:24:592:25:01

Now, the problem with an adversarial interaction is, it is reductive.

2:25:012:25:05

It shaves off all the areas of nuance,

2:25:052:25:07

it shaves off all the dog-leg areas,

2:25:072:25:10

and to arrive at a blunt conclusion, which is Yes, or No, who won?

2:25:102:25:13

Now, the adverts.

2:25:132:25:15

UK!

2:25:152:25:17

OK.

2:25:172:25:19

That's it. That's all they've got, right?

2:25:192:25:21

Have you any concern that it's such a sort of polarising affair,

2:25:212:25:25

it doesn't seem to be very nuanced?

2:25:252:25:28

At least in some areas, it's not very nuanced.

2:25:282:25:30

Yeah, I think they're putting people off by saying too much Yes and No,

2:25:302:25:33

or too much attacking with,

2:25:332:25:34

I've got stats that counter yours, and then we'll counter these stats,

2:25:342:25:37

and people are just shutting down and getting sick of it.

2:25:372:25:40

I'm hoping that shows like mine can pierce that a little bit,

2:25:402:25:42

because again, that's the strength that humour has.

2:25:422:25:45

UPBEAT JAZZY MUSIC

2:25:452:25:47

The temperature of the referendum debate may now be rising,

2:25:502:25:53

and it's certainly got the creative community talking.

2:25:532:25:57

Freedom!

2:25:572:25:58

CHEERING

2:25:582:26:00

Most people, I think, are thinking about politics in whole new ways.

2:26:002:26:04

The fact that we're even talking about

2:26:042:26:06

what the arts should and shouldn't do in politics is a move forward.

2:26:062:26:09

You can't say it isn't, because we wouldn't be having this discussion

2:26:092:26:12

if it wasn't for the referendum.

2:26:122:26:14

There is an energy, there's a dynamic,

2:26:142:26:16

going on in this country right now, and if that's reflected on any level

2:26:162:26:19

whatsoever creatively during the Edinburgh festival, then we all win.

2:26:192:26:23

We all win.

2:26:232:26:24

It's really, really exciting.

2:26:242:26:25

# Pretty baby, is it yes or no? #

2:26:252:26:32

Denise Mina and Alan Bissett will be appearing

2:26:382:26:40

at the Edinburgh International Book Festival later this month.

2:26:402:26:43

Do join me again next Sunday for an interview with

2:26:432:26:46

creator of Game Of Thrones, George RR Martin,

2:26:462:26:49

Professor Mary Beard's guide to comedy in ancient Rome,

2:26:492:26:52

and Bruno Tonioli dancing his way around the fringe.

2:26:522:26:56

And you can see even more from the festivals on Edinburgh Nights

2:26:562:26:59

with Sue Perkins, next Friday night at ten o'clock on BBC Two.

2:26:592:27:02

And there's a new performance online every single day

2:27:022:27:05

at bbc.co.uk/edinburghfestivals

2:27:052:27:10

We leave you tonight with the beautiful sound of Song Of The Goat,

2:27:102:27:13

the award-winning Polish theatre company.

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They are performing laments, psalms and songs of exile

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inspired by ancient Scottish Gaelic traditions,

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behind me at St Giles's Cathedral on the Royal Mile.

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I bet you love this. Good night.

2:27:252:27:28

THEY SING CLOSE HARMONIES

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# On the oak leaf I stand

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# I ride on the filly that never was foaled

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# And I carry the dead in my hand

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# On the oak-leaf I stand

2:29:042:29:07

# I ride on the filly that never was foaled. #

2:29:072:29:14

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