Matt Baker and Angellica Bell are joined by Christopher Eccleston. Plus, the two barristers investigating murder convictions that could be miscarriages of justice.
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Hello and welcome to
The One Show with Matt Baker.
And Angellica Bell.
We've got two of the UK's top
criminal barristers here tonight
who have prosecuted and defended
in some high profile cases and now
they have a new job.
Working with families whose
relatives were tried and hanged
for historic crimes which they might
have been innocent of.
Our first guest has played
a murderer and a murder victim
but he's recently been showing
us his funny side.
The jury's out on his
# I never thought I could feel this
way and I have got to say...
to make toast under another woman's
Grill. This tastes better than bath
water. He demands a helicopter to
# Everybody deserves a happy ending,
but we don't even try.
I don't think it is that bad. It is
We have all
enjoyed you. Looe that was character
saying. I have got a good voice, but
he has not. Have you enjoyed playing
We laugh along with you. I
never play roles like that, I am
always a misery guts, so it has been
a joy to play that. All those lines
written by the writer, it is about
Would you like to do
more comedy roles?
Yes, I would like
to keep it out of my personal life
and into my working life.
and into my working life.
from the north-west of England.
You come from the
north-west of England.
Not everything is blooming
for the property market there,
because some housing developments
just aren't what they seem.
One story we've been
following for a while has seen homes
being sold that were substandard
and in some cases didn't even exist.
Five years ago dozens of people
contacted us to complain about
property developer from a fresh
There were flies and
maggots everywhere and they got in
the flat below.
This is the open
sewer pipe which is disgusting.
is disgusting. Karen told us she
bought a flat which was then
converted into a communal kitchen
for the building without her
Where the bed should be
I have now got bridges.
me their apartments had not even
been built, yet when I confronted
the company's director, Charlie
Cunningham, you was keen to put
I am doing everything
I can at the moment to get it sorted
But just a few months later it
went bust, leaving debts of hundreds
of thousands of pounds. This is one
of their old buildings in Manchester
and when I was last here everyone
was told to get out for their own
safety. Look at it now. It is still
a mess. Anita bought a £60,000
one-bedroom flat here from Fresh
Start Living, just six months before
the building was shut down. What
were you told at the time about what
Nothing, I contacted
Charlie Cunningham. What response
did you get?
No reply. After the
company's demise, a new company,
Absolute Living Developments,
brought the new building. Did that
mean with a new owner she could move
back in? Unfortunately not.
is gutted. All my belongings have
Where have they gone?
know. Why did they trespass on my
property without consulting me?
you lost money?
Yes, everything, I
have worked hard.
Others have had
the same experience and we have
discovered that Absolute Living
Developments was busy selling new
buyers off plan apartment in the
same development and they were
selling other flats in a location
across the way. They have also gone
bust, leaving millions of pounds per
worth of debt. What is going on?
Chris paid Absolute Living
Developments a £40,000 deposit for a
flat at the back of a's building,
but it has never been built.
left with uncertainty and questions
about what has happened.
out where his money had gone.
thought I was paying to the
developers, but as it transpires the
money was transferred to another
Other buyers we spoke to
also confirm that their money was
sent to the corporate investment
firm DS seven. Its director is none
other than Mr Charlie Cunningham.
Could he really be involved in this
mess once again? It is not just
buyers here who so far have nothing
to show for their money. More than
300 buy to let investors across Asia
paid 50% down payment on flats in
the UK. Again, the bulk of the money
went to DS seven.
I spent two years
waiting for this building to come
through. I have lost all of my
It greatly undermined
people's confidence in the UK
property market as well as the legal
Liquidator Louise Britain is
trying to get to the bottom of what
happened with ALD.
There is a lot of
money that has come through this
Have you got any idea at
all where any of the money has gone?
That is what we are looking at,
where the money came from and where
the money flowed through any of the
companies and banking transactions.
In September last year, Louise took
her findings to the High Court and
obtained a freezing order on the
assets of Mr Cunningham and four
other parties. The liquidator
alleges Mr Cunningham's company DS
seven received payments of over £40
million from ALD over a two-year
period and he personally received
£1.4 million from companies
associated with ALD. But does this
offer any help to the growing list
The authorities should
be looking into this and try to
untangle this complicated web.
want an answer from Charlie
Cunningham will stop we are
searching for answers.
searching for answers.
We have had a response
from Mr Cunningham.
He does not deny receiving some
money from Absolute Living
Developments but claims he was owed
it and therefore did
not do anything wrong.
He vehemently denies
all the allegations
made by the liquidator,
blames the downfall of the company
on the Malaysian directors and says
he never had anything to do
with the running of the business.
Investigations are still ongoing
and there is expected to be
a trial later this year.
No doubt Angela will keep us up to
date. Christopher, we mentioned at
the start of the show The A Word.
Singing like a bird. Singing like a
bird, but playing a widow, are you
becoming a role model?
I have always
been a role model for mail thanks.
It is an unusual story, it is a
three parter and the first episode
is from the man's point of view and
his truth. The second episode is
from the woman's point of view and
territory. In divorce as there are
always at least two. The third
episode is the resolution of that
and it is a custody battle. But it
is like The A Word. It is a very
serious matter and people don't want
to see a soapbox. So there is a
great humour in it, which was
attractive to me. There are a lot of
light moments in it as well which
helps the pill go down.
Let's take a
look at the Greg tucking in his
daughter for the night.
I wish you
were not going.
It will only be a
couple of hours. Go to sleep. Who
are you meeting?
Just a friend.
Miss nosy, an old friend, lie down.
I want mummy to come home.
promise, I really promise.
that. It gets you.
She is a
Tell us more
about the character Greg.
He is an
ordinary working man, whatever that
means. He has got a small business,
he is a mechanic, he adores his wife
and she decides to leave the
marriage for a very good reasons
which he cannot see. In a sense Greg
has imprisoned her by not
understanding all of her needs. But
he is so focused on just being a
family man that he has failed to see
her as an individual.
Do you think
this drama will make people take
sides? It is celebrating a single
father and it is a woman who has
left the family and her home.
very provocative role, really. The
idea to society that a woman would
walk out on her children is very
challenging, but I think the female
character is very brave because she
is so unhappy that she realises if
she does not make herself happy she
will not be able to parent
successfully. And at the same time
she acknowledges the deep love that
her husband has for the children and
vice versa. She does not want to
wreck that, but she also wants her
own autonomy, so she is incredibly
heroic. Some people will judge her
harshly, but that always happens to
women, always. The woman always gets
the rougher deal, not legally, but
in terms of society and perceptions.
We are putting that in front of an
audience to challenge them and
nobody comes a rosy. They both have
great areas and both of their grey
areas have a foreground.
We all have
them. A very interesting project to
be involved in if people will be
viewing it in that way. It is coming
to BBC One this spring.
It is coming to BBC One this spring.
When videos of screaming children
on flights go viral online,
it's no surprise that a quarter
of a million parents say they avoid
flying with their children so as not
to be "parent shamed".
And you are one of those.
never been on a flight with my
It is not that bad.
It is not that bad.
I'm sure everyone can relate to this
whether or not they have children.
Some people are now calling
for child-free flights.
Here is someone else who has not
taken my children on a plane, it is
my husband Michael.
What do the Flyers think about the
current viral videos of babies
crying on planes?
Here comes a
For some people this
is an absolute nightmare, but why?
After all, they are just children.
Should we expect them to be like
this? I am a father, I know.
seen it from both sides where I have
had passengers with children and
they have been asked to move because
they are not happy with the noise,
but you don't what the parents to
know that they don't like their
I find it irritating.
been on a flight with an upset
It is irritating, but we have
grandchildren who do the same.
parent myself and on flights with
screaming kids, you feel really
guilty and you feel more stress
because you are trying to quieten
your child and they are not having
any of it.
The most annoying people
on flights are adults playing the
Back in 2016 budget Indian
airline Indigo introduced a ban
which stopped anyone under the age
of 12 from sitting in certain areas
on the flight. What could be done
about it? Some have suggested
childfree zones on planes. Would
children put up with those
I have been on a
flight with friends and we were in
the seas behind.
the seas behind. If you start
segregating, children will never
Especially a baby screaming,
I don't know how well that would go
down, that might just not be
creating the right areas. How do you
What about paying more
for your tickets to guarantee no
children on the fly?
What do you
think? You would have to have less
flights for parents and families and
I'm not sure if that is fair.
Parents are the people with the
kids. There will always be something
that frustrates you. Just breathe
through it and get on with your
Get your own plain, simple as
that? How difficult can that be?
Both you and your husband have
talked about it. You have to take
your children on a plane.
have said people have said things to
Yes, they have and it made my
blood run cold. There was nearly a
major incident. I care for my
We have a couple of
Sasha Wass and Jeremy Dein
are here, you may have
seen their names in the newspapers.
Sasha prosecuted Rolf Harris
and Jeremy defended Tulisa.
You are both involved in this new
BBC series. It is very, very
exciting. Jeremy, where does it
start, what is the idea with it?
There are ten death penalty cases.
They span the last 125 years. They
are an investigation into the
quality of the evidence, using
modern-day techniques. There is a
family member LinkedIn throughout,
and they are a fascinating insight
to the development of the criminal
justice process over a very long
period of time.
It is quite an
emotive series, you look at ten
individual cases but you actually
have contact with family members of
That is what brings
it to light, because you have some
people, who have known about the
hanging and the stigma of what
happened all their lives, others
learned much more recently. But even
for those who only learned in the
last few years, they suddenly became
emotional, they wanted to vindicate
their relation. It became a passion,
a cause that they had.
There is a
different case every programme,
let's talk about the death of
Frederick Bryant on Monday's
programme. From 1935, why did you
want to reopen this case?
Bryant was the defendant, she was
hanged for the poisoning of
Frederick Bryant. This is a truly
fascinating case, not just because
it was a poisoning case, but because
the defendant was a woman, and it
involves putting the spotlight on
how women were perceived, and how in
particular women from the lowest
echelons of society were perceived.
So it is a truly fascinating case,
and it involves many, many facets
that I think the public will find
And what evidence were
you looking at?
This all turned on
the evidence of arsenic, because the
cause of death was arsenic
poisoning, so we learned a lot about
arsenic being a woman's weapon of
choice in those days, how was
detected, how it was administered,
and we were able to speak to
toxicologists, and find out an awful
lot about life in those days.
Arsenic was freely available. Rat
poison, weedkiller, anyone could get
Charlotte, the lady you are
talking about, wrote a last-minute
plea for mercy. In this series, it
is read by her grandson.
actually really difficult for me.
you want me to read it?
She says, sir, may I respectfully
beg for your mercy in my case. The
date of my execution has been fixed
for Wednesday next, July 15. And I
am not guilty of the offence I am
charged with. I humbly beg for the
sake of my little children to spare
my life. I remain, yours
respectfully, Charlotte Bryant, and
that is thought to be the last time
that she wrote her name.
You can clearly see this is
That letter says it all,
it brings home that we were dealing
with the death penalty here, and an
extraordinarily cruel and barbaric
So in the event that you
all agree there has been a
miscarriage of justice, Jeremy, what
happens next? What steps can be
Well, I think where it was
thought that a miscarriage of
justice might have occurred, then it
is open towards Mike Rowe relatives
to pursue the situation through the
courts. It is a very -- it is open
to the relatives to pursue the
situation through the courts. This
is a very complex affair, it may be
possible for some, not for others,
but doors are open, though there is
Another aspect was
that the programme itself, and the
process, provided closure for the
families, because they saw what the
evidence was, they saw that it being
analysed again. We updated them
throughout the programme, and
whatever the conclusion, at least
they felt that their relation's case
had been properly looked at in
The emotion they
showed was quite extraordinary,
bearing in mind that many of his
relatives didn't know the person
You can understand it,
though, you can feel it. Fascinating
I will definitely be
Murder, Mystery and My Family starts
on Monday on BBC One at 9.15am.
It is also on the iPlayer.
As one of Downing Street's more
Labour MP and former Chancellor
of the Exchequer Denis Healey
revelled in the fun
of the political game.
And as his son Tim explains,
he was always happy
to play the fool at home.
One frame from my mother rang all
through my childhood, whenever dad
was larking around, whether it was
on or off screen, the cry was,
Chancellor of the Exchequer, people
have referred to him as the best
Prime Minister we never had.
what it means, and that is what I'm
asking for, that is what I will
My father was
irrepressible. This is a house in
north London where my sisters Jane,
Cress and I spent most of our
childhood. The owner's kindly
letting me in so I can take another
look. While! The configurations is
very much the same, and in some
strange way, the ambience is the
same. Dad had this fantastic last
for life. One of those things was
with any visiting friends of ours,
you would grab them by the arms, and
whirling them around at ferocious
speed! My mother, in the background,
always present. Denis, don't! He was
just an MP in the early days, a
bright young Labour MP, on the up.
In 1964, Harold Wilson made him
Defence Secretary. Ten years after
that, the became Chancellor of the
Exchequer, and the next move was to
11 Downing St. He did a lot of good
stuff, the most important thing was
keeping the British economy afloat
during a very troubled period. He
did acknowledge there was a streak
in himself of what he called brutal
facetiousness. He was a great
photographer, and although he was a
big, Floros personality, nonetheless
I think a lot of quieter tenderness
comes through. Nice little one here
I think we've got of us building a
snowman in the back garden. He loved
the outdoor life, he loved the
family camping holidays he took us
on. We discovered, recently, that
the paper girl who delivered here
was one Sarah Macauley, better known
today, perhaps, as Sarah Brown, the
wife of former Prime Minister,
This is first time I
have been this far into the house. I
would have been doing this paper
round at the beginning of secondary
school, 12 or 13 years old. All of
those papers would stack up and on
Sunday was the super bumper pile,
and for your dad, I think he ordered
every single newspaper available.
you missed the limelight?
been in the public eye, it never
goes away. I am Sarah Macauley in my
Did dad kept at Christmas?
can't believe, having met your dad
in Morrison years, that he wouldn't
have been a great tip.
Dad was a
really keen swimmer and often
brought us here, to the lied over.
He needed to unwind and one of his
great joys was swimming. He loved to
entertain. My sister made a murder
mystery film, involving all of us,
and mum and that threw themselves
into their parts with typical
relish. He really loved television.
I can't think of many other major
political figures who would have
coped so well with playing piano in
a TV special. And he really relished
being taken off by the
Impressionist, Mike Yarwood.
Harold and I had lots of fun in
those days, even though we hardly
had any money. Later, he made me
Chancellor of the Exchequer, and we
had even less money.
We used to love walking on hamster
teeth, with dad yodelling out his
favourite theme tune for our jaunts,
the entry of the clowns, that famous
circus theme... The views from
Parliament Hill Fields are
absolutely fantastic. The skyline
has changed enormously since I was a
boy. Dad died at 98, two years short
of his hundredth birthday, and I
think it was his great ambition,
actually, even more than to be Prime
Minister, was to lift to 100. He
didn't quite make it, -- live to
100, but two years on we are there
now, and I can say it is happy
birthday, dad. APPLAUSE
Thank you for sharing those lovely
memories. He has inherited the
eyebrows, hasn't he? And the voice.
It says a lot about him that
although he must have had an
incredibly stressful life at work,
those are the memories Tim has as a
dad at home.
Beautiful. What was it
like growing up to you as a child,
I was very happy, I had
that kind of, huge amount of love
and laughter in my family. I had a
great childhood, really.
have a wonderful little from your
parents, Shakespeare, the complete
works. Shall I tell everyone what
has been happening over the last two
and a half minutes?
Don't spoil it,
we will surprise everyone.
won't say anything, just take it
away, whatever you want to do.
Trying to get in character. Hail
Macbeth, Hail to the, fading of
I know I am fain have
glanced that power of Cawdor? Safe
from whence you owe this strange
intelligent and why you stop our way
upon this blasted heath. Speak, I
Seek to know no more.
Bit of live Shakespeare there.
Loving your work!
You saw it here
I will never be as good at
I don't know.
RSCH, come on.
There is good reason we are talking
about Shakespeare because you are
deep in rehearsal for Macbeth.
When I was 17 I was in an amateur
production of Macbeth, and it toured
round the North West of England and
there was wine, women and song
involved in it. I had a small part
in it and I fell in love with the
lifestyle, but I fell in love with
the play. It is because of that play
that I became an actor. At 17 I have
this ridiculous notion that one day
I wanted to play Macbeth. It is a
true story, it sounds American, but
It actually happened,
I decided I will wanted to
play Macbeth at the Royal
Shakespeare Company, and at 504I
have managed to do it.
When I set off to drama school, my
mum and dad went to Marks &
Spencer's, which is The posh shop,
as you know, make bought me the
complete works of William
Shakespeare. The woman at the till
said, bloody hell, Shakespeare, you
too must be clever. My dad
apparently said, it is not for me,
it is my son, he is an actor. And my
mum took the Mickey because I was
nowhere near. My dad gave me my love
of language. My dad was a man for
his crosswords. He used to take his
dictionary out and he would pick a
word out, with the word out and say
isn't this a marvellous word? He had
a burning desire for language will
stop when he had his dementia,
sometimes if you got anxious,
because I'd played Hamlet and I
would sometimes do some of the
Hamblett things for him in the
Trafford centre and it would calm
He would be so proud of
I am very proud of him,
actually, I was very proud of my
Macbeth opens at the Royal
Shakespeare Theatre on 13th March.
Best of luck with it.
Thank you very
much full stop
one reason why people
love The A Word is because it is set
against the stunning background of
the Lake District.
famous for its fast flowing
becks and waterfalls.
Patrick's been to another
of our spectacular natural parks,
The Yorkshire Dales,
which is blessed with similar
Rivers are a constantly changing
force of nature. If every British
river was connected in one single,
meandering line, it would circle the
Earth, twice. The Yorkshire Dales
national park has some of the
fastest flowing rivers in the UK,
and many spectacular waterfalls.
This landscape is unpredictable. And
constantly changing. So only the
most adaptable animals can thrive
here. One bird particularly well for
life in the falls is the dipper.
They're dipping and bobbing is
thought to help them pinpoint
underwater prey, and with a meal in
sight, their unique river skill is
revealed. They can swim underwater.
Within large to preen glands, ten
times the size of other birds, they
can give their feathers the
essential waterproofing that they
need. Highly developed wing muscles
help them push against the currents.
Strong legs and feet provide grip,
and an additional eyelid protects
their eyes whilst underwater. It is
these unique adaptations that will
help the dippers survive the
approaching the river. Autumn has
arrived, and the leaves are on the
term. Injecting their burst of
colour into the river habitat. At
this time of year, rain is never far
away, and the first downfall of the
season has begun. Autumn brings with
it the UK's highest rainfall,
causing some rivers in the Dales to
rise three metres in just 20
minutes. As the river rises, the
excess water of the falls comes
crashing down, and becomes a raging
torrent, heading straight for the
differs. It is such a chant up
riverbed, no matter how many times a
dipper dips and bobs, their
visibility is hampered, making it
extremely difficult to hunt, and
even they struggled to battle
against these new currents, and can
only stand and watch, as their meals
rush quickly passed. This inability
to hunt means many dippers won't
make it past their first year on the
river. Luckily, this autumn downfall
passes quickly, and the river
returns to its natural rhythm once
more. Allowing the dippers to
continue doing what they do best.
Thanks to Christopher
for joining us.
Round of applause for Christopher.
Matt Baker and Angellica Bell are joined by Christopher Eccleston to talk about his upcoming drama and taking on the role of Macbeth. Plus, the two barristers investigating murder convictions that could be miscarriages of justice.