22/02/2018 The One Show


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22/02/2018

Matt Baker and Angellica Bell are joined by Christopher Eccleston. Plus, the two barristers investigating murder convictions that could be miscarriages of justice.


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Hello and welcome to

The One Show with Matt Baker.

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And Angellica Bell.

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We've got two of the UK's top

criminal barristers here tonight

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who have prosecuted and defended

in some high profile cases and now

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they have a new job.

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Working with families whose

relatives were tried and hanged

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for historic crimes which they might

have been innocent of.

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Our first guest has played

a murderer and a murder victim

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but he's recently been showing

us his funny side.

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The jury's out on his

singing though.

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# I never thought I could feel this

way and I have got to say...

He has

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to make toast under another woman's

Grill. This tastes better than bath

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water. He demands a helicopter to

Alton Towers?

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# Everybody deserves a happy ending,

but we don't even try.

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I don't think it is that bad. It is

Christopher Ecclestone.

We have all

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enjoyed you. Looe that was character

saying. I have got a good voice, but

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he has not. Have you enjoyed playing

that?

We laugh along with you. I

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never play roles like that, I am

always a misery guts, so it has been

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a joy to play that. All those lines

written by the writer, it is about

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the writer.

Would you like to do

more comedy roles?

Yes, I would like

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to keep it out of my personal life

and into my working life.

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and into my working life.

You come

from the north-west of England.

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You come from the

north-west of England.

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Not everything is blooming

for the property market there,

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because some housing developments

just aren't what they seem.

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One story we've been

following for a while has seen homes

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being sold that were substandard

and in some cases didn't even exist.

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Five years ago dozens of people

contacted us to complain about

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property developer from a fresh

Start Living.

There were flies and

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maggots everywhere and they got in

the flat below.

This is the open

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sewer pipe which is disgusting.

That

is disgusting. Karen told us she

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bought a flat which was then

converted into a communal kitchen

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for the building without her

permission.

Where the bed should be

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I have now got bridges.

Others told

me their apartments had not even

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been built, yet when I confronted

the company's director, Charlie

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Cunningham, you was keen to put

things right.

I am doing everything

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I can at the moment to get it sorted

out.

But just a few months later it

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went bust, leaving debts of hundreds

of thousands of pounds. This is one

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of their old buildings in Manchester

and when I was last here everyone

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was told to get out for their own

safety. Look at it now. It is still

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a mess. Anita bought a £60,000

one-bedroom flat here from Fresh

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Start Living, just six months before

the building was shut down. What

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were you told at the time about what

was happening?

Nothing, I contacted

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Charlie Cunningham. What response

did you get?

No reply. After the

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company's demise, a new company,

Absolute Living Developments,

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brought the new building. Did that

mean with a new owner she could move

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back in? Unfortunately not.

My flat

is gutted. All my belongings have

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gone.

Where have they gone?

I don't

know. Why did they trespass on my

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property without consulting me?

And

you lost money?

Yes, everything, I

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have worked hard.

Others have had

the same experience and we have

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discovered that Absolute Living

Developments was busy selling new

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buyers off plan apartment in the

same development and they were

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selling other flats in a location

across the way. They have also gone

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bust, leaving millions of pounds per

worth of debt. What is going on?

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Chris paid Absolute Living

Developments a £40,000 deposit for a

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flat at the back of a's building,

but it has never been built.

I am

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left with uncertainty and questions

about what has happened.

Chris found

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out where his money had gone.

I

thought I was paying to the

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developers, but as it transpires the

money was transferred to another

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company.

Other buyers we spoke to

also confirm that their money was

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sent to the corporate investment

firm DS seven. Its director is none

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other than Mr Charlie Cunningham.

Could he really be involved in this

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mess once again? It is not just

buyers here who so far have nothing

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to show for their money. More than

300 buy to let investors across Asia

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paid 50% down payment on flats in

the UK. Again, the bulk of the money

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went to DS seven.

I spent two years

waiting for this building to come

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through. I have lost all of my

investment.

It greatly undermined

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people's confidence in the UK

property market as well as the legal

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system.

Liquidator Louise Britain is

trying to get to the bottom of what

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happened with ALD.

There is a lot of

money that has come through this

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company.

Have you got any idea at

all where any of the money has gone?

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That is what we are looking at,

where the money came from and where

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the money flowed through any of the

companies and banking transactions.

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In September last year, Louise took

her findings to the High Court and

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obtained a freezing order on the

assets of Mr Cunningham and four

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other parties. The liquidator

alleges Mr Cunningham's company DS

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seven received payments of over £40

million from ALD over a two-year

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period and he personally received

£1.4 million from companies

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associated with ALD. But does this

offer any help to the growing list

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of creditors?

The authorities should

be looking into this and try to

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untangle this complicated web.

I

want an answer from Charlie

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Cunningham will stop we are

searching for answers.

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searching for answers.

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Thanks, Angela.

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We have had a response

from Mr Cunningham.

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He does not deny receiving some

money from Absolute Living

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Developments but claims he was owed

it and therefore did

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not do anything wrong.

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He vehemently denies

all the allegations

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made by the liquidator,

blames the downfall of the company

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on the Malaysian directors and says

he never had anything to do

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with the running of the business.

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Investigations are still ongoing

and there is expected to be

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a trial later this year.

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No doubt Angela will keep us up to

date. Christopher, we mentioned at

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the start of the show The A Word.

Singing like a bird. Singing like a

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bird, but playing a widow, are you

becoming a role model?

I have always

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been a role model for mail thanks.

It is an unusual story, it is a

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three parter and the first episode

is from the man's point of view and

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his truth. The second episode is

from the woman's point of view and

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territory. In divorce as there are

always at least two. The third

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episode is the resolution of that

and it is a custody battle. But it

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is like The A Word. It is a very

serious matter and people don't want

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to see a soapbox. So there is a

great humour in it, which was

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attractive to me. There are a lot of

light moments in it as well which

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helps the pill go down.

Let's take a

look at the Greg tucking in his

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daughter for the night.

I wish you

were not going.

It will only be a

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couple of hours. Go to sleep. Who

are you meeting?

Just a friend.

Who?

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Miss nosy, an old friend, lie down.

I want mummy to come home.

I

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promise, I really promise.

I love

that. It gets you.

She is a

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fantastic actress.

Tell us more

about the character Greg.

He is an

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ordinary working man, whatever that

means. He has got a small business,

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he is a mechanic, he adores his wife

and she decides to leave the

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marriage for a very good reasons

which he cannot see. In a sense Greg

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has imprisoned her by not

understanding all of her needs. But

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he is so focused on just being a

family man that he has failed to see

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her as an individual.

Do you think

this drama will make people take

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sides? It is celebrating a single

father and it is a woman who has

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left the family and her home.

It is

very provocative role, really. The

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idea to society that a woman would

walk out on her children is very

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challenging, but I think the female

character is very brave because she

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is so unhappy that she realises if

she does not make herself happy she

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will not be able to parent

successfully. And at the same time

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she acknowledges the deep love that

her husband has for the children and

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vice versa. She does not want to

wreck that, but she also wants her

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own autonomy, so she is incredibly

heroic. Some people will judge her

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harshly, but that always happens to

women, always. The woman always gets

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the rougher deal, not legally, but

in terms of society and perceptions.

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We are putting that in front of an

audience to challenge them and

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nobody comes a rosy. They both have

great areas and both of their grey

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areas have a foreground.

We all have

them. A very interesting project to

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be involved in if people will be

viewing it in that way. It is coming

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to BBC One this spring.

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It is coming to BBC One this spring.

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When videos of screaming children

on flights go viral online,

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it's no surprise that a quarter

of a million parents say they avoid

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flying with their children so as not

to be "parent shamed".

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And you are one of those.

I have

never been on a flight with my

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children.

It is not that bad.

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It is not that bad.

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I'm sure everyone can relate to this

whether or not they have children.

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Some people are now calling

for child-free flights.

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Here is someone else who has not

taken my children on a plane, it is

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my husband Michael.

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What do the Flyers think about the

current viral videos of babies

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crying on planes?

Here comes a

screaming baby.

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screaming baby.

For some people this

is an absolute nightmare, but why?

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After all, they are just children.

Should we expect them to be like

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this? I am a father, I know.

I have

seen it from both sides where I have

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had passengers with children and

they have been asked to move because

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they are not happy with the noise,

but you don't what the parents to

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know that they don't like their

kids.

I find it irritating.

Have you

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been on a flight with an upset

child?

It is irritating, but we have

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grandchildren who do the same.

As a

parent myself and on flights with

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screaming kids, you feel really

guilty and you feel more stress

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because you are trying to quieten

your child and they are not having

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any of it.

The most annoying people

on flights are adults playing the

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fool.

Back in 2016 budget Indian

airline Indigo introduced a ban

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which stopped anyone under the age

of 12 from sitting in certain areas

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on the flight. What could be done

about it? Some have suggested

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childfree zones on planes. Would

children put up with those

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restrictions?

I have been on a

flight with friends and we were in

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the seas behind.

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the seas behind. If you start

segregating, children will never

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learn.

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learn.

Especially a baby screaming,

I don't know how well that would go

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down, that might just not be

creating the right areas. How do you

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monitor it?

What about paying more

for your tickets to guarantee no

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children on the fly?

What do you

think? You would have to have less

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flights for parents and families and

I'm not sure if that is fair.

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Parents are the people with the

kids. There will always be something

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that frustrates you. Just breathe

through it and get on with your

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life.

Get your own plain, simple as

that? How difficult can that be?

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Both you and your husband have

talked about it. You have to take

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your children on a plane.

But you

have said people have said things to

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you.

Yes, they have and it made my

blood run cold. There was nearly a

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major incident. I care for my

children.

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children.

We have a couple of

barristers here.

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Sasha Wass and Jeremy Dein

are here, you may have

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seen their names in the newspapers.

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Sasha prosecuted Rolf Harris

and Jeremy defended Tulisa.

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You are both involved in this new

BBC series. It is very, very

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exciting. Jeremy, where does it

start, what is the idea with it?

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There are ten death penalty cases.

They span the last 125 years. They

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are an investigation into the

quality of the evidence, using

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modern-day techniques. There is a

family member LinkedIn throughout,

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and they are a fascinating insight

to the development of the criminal

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justice process over a very long

period of time.

It is quite an

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emotive series, you look at ten

individual cases but you actually

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have contact with family members of

those involved.

That is what brings

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it to light, because you have some

people, who have known about the

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hanging and the stigma of what

happened all their lives, others

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learned much more recently. But even

for those who only learned in the

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last few years, they suddenly became

emotional, they wanted to vindicate

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their relation. It became a passion,

a cause that they had.

There is a

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different case every programme,

let's talk about the death of

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Frederick Bryant on Monday's

programme. From 1935, why did you

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want to reopen this case?

Charlotte

Bryant was the defendant, she was

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hanged for the poisoning of

Frederick Bryant. This is a truly

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fascinating case, not just because

it was a poisoning case, but because

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the defendant was a woman, and it

involves putting the spotlight on

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how women were perceived, and how in

particular women from the lowest

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echelons of society were perceived.

So it is a truly fascinating case,

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and it involves many, many facets

that I think the public will find

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intriguing.

And what evidence were

you looking at?

This all turned on

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the evidence of arsenic, because the

cause of death was arsenic

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poisoning, so we learned a lot about

arsenic being a woman's weapon of

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choice in those days, how was

detected, how it was administered,

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and we were able to speak to

toxicologists, and find out an awful

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lot about life in those days.

Arsenic was freely available. Rat

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poison, weedkiller, anyone could get

it.

Charlotte, the lady you are

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talking about, wrote a last-minute

plea for mercy. In this series, it

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is read by her grandson.

It is

actually really difficult for me.

Do

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you want me to read it?

Thank you.

She says, sir, may I respectfully

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beg for your mercy in my case. The

date of my execution has been fixed

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for Wednesday next, July 15. And I

am not guilty of the offence I am

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charged with. I humbly beg for the

sake of my little children to spare

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my life. I remain, yours

respectfully, Charlotte Bryant, and

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that is thought to be the last time

that she wrote her name.

Dear me.

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You can clearly see this is

emotional.

That letter says it all,

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it brings home that we were dealing

with the death penalty here, and an

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extraordinarily cruel and barbaric

concept.

So in the event that you

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all agree there has been a

miscarriage of justice, Jeremy, what

0:18:400:18:45

happens next? What steps can be

taken?

Well, I think where it was

0:18:450:18:50

thought that a miscarriage of

justice might have occurred, then it

0:18:500:18:55

is open towards Mike Rowe relatives

to pursue the situation through the

0:18:550:18:58

courts. It is a very -- it is open

to the relatives to pursue the

0:18:580:19:04

situation through the courts. This

is a very complex affair, it may be

0:19:040:19:08

possible for some, not for others,

but doors are open, though there is

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another aspect.

Another aspect was

that the programme itself, and the

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process, provided closure for the

families, because they saw what the

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evidence was, they saw that it being

analysed again. We updated them

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throughout the programme, and

whatever the conclusion, at least

0:19:260:19:28

they felt that their relation's case

had been properly looked at in

0:19:280:19:33

modern-day times.

The emotion they

showed was quite extraordinary,

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bearing in mind that many of his

relatives didn't know the person

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concerned.

You can understand it,

though, you can feel it. Fascinating

0:19:420:19:47

programme.

I will definitely be

watching.

0:19:470:19:51

Murder, Mystery and My Family starts

on Monday on BBC One at 9.15am.

0:19:510:19:56

It is also on the iPlayer.

0:19:560:20:00

As one of Downing Street's more

colourful characters,

0:20:000:20:02

Labour MP and former Chancellor

of the Exchequer Denis Healey

0:20:020:20:04

revelled in the fun

of the political game.

0:20:040:20:06

And as his son Tim explains,

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he was always happy

to play the fool at home.

0:20:080:20:13

One frame from my mother rang all

through my childhood, whenever dad

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was larking around, whether it was

on or off screen, the cry was,

0:20:180:20:25

Denis, don't!

Denis Healey.

As

Chancellor of the Exchequer, people

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have referred to him as the best

Prime Minister we never had.

That's

0:20:310:20:34

what it means, and that is what I'm

asking for, that is what I will

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negotiate for!

My father was

irrepressible. This is a house in

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north London where my sisters Jane,

Cress and I spent most of our

0:20:470:20:54

childhood. The owner's kindly

letting me in so I can take another

0:20:540:20:57

look. While! The configurations is

very much the same, and in some

0:20:570:21:07

strange way, the ambience is the

same. Dad had this fantastic last

0:21:070:21:10

for life. One of those things was

with any visiting friends of ours,

0:21:100:21:16

you would grab them by the arms, and

whirling them around at ferocious

0:21:160:21:20

speed! My mother, in the background,

always present. Denis, don't! He was

0:21:200:21:28

just an MP in the early days, a

bright young Labour MP, on the up.

0:21:280:21:35

In 1964, Harold Wilson made him

Defence Secretary. Ten years after

0:21:350:21:38

that, the became Chancellor of the

Exchequer, and the next move was to

0:21:380:21:44

11 Downing St. He did a lot of good

stuff, the most important thing was

0:21:440:21:49

keeping the British economy afloat

during a very troubled period. He

0:21:490:21:53

did acknowledge there was a streak

in himself of what he called brutal

0:21:530:21:58

facetiousness. He was a great

photographer, and although he was a

0:21:580:22:02

big, Floros personality, nonetheless

I think a lot of quieter tenderness

0:22:020:22:06

comes through. Nice little one here

I think we've got of us building a

0:22:060:22:12

snowman in the back garden. He loved

the outdoor life, he loved the

0:22:120:22:17

family camping holidays he took us

on. We discovered, recently, that

0:22:170:22:22

the paper girl who delivered here

was one Sarah Macauley, better known

0:22:220:22:29

today, perhaps, as Sarah Brown, the

wife of former Prime Minister,

0:22:290:22:33

Gordon Brown.

This is first time I

have been this far into the house. I

0:22:330:22:37

would have been doing this paper

round at the beginning of secondary

0:22:370:22:41

school, 12 or 13 years old. All of

those papers would stack up and on

0:22:410:22:46

Sunday was the super bumper pile,

and for your dad, I think he ordered

0:22:460:22:49

every single newspaper available.

Do

you missed the limelight?

Having

0:22:490:22:55

been in the public eye, it never

goes away. I am Sarah Macauley in my

0:22:550:23:02

head.

Did dad kept at Christmas?

I

can't believe, having met your dad

0:23:020:23:08

in Morrison years, that he wouldn't

have been a great tip.

Dad was a

0:23:080:23:13

really keen swimmer and often

brought us here, to the lied over.

0:23:130:23:17

He needed to unwind and one of his

great joys was swimming. He loved to

0:23:170:23:24

entertain. My sister made a murder

mystery film, involving all of us,

0:23:240:23:30

and mum and that threw themselves

into their parts with typical

0:23:300:23:32

relish. He really loved television.

I can't think of many other major

0:23:320:23:38

political figures who would have

coped so well with playing piano in

0:23:380:23:43

a TV special. And he really relished

being taken off by the

0:23:430:23:47

Impressionist, Mike Yarwood.

Yes,

Harold and I had lots of fun in

0:23:470:23:51

those days, even though we hardly

had any money. Later, he made me

0:23:510:23:55

Chancellor of the Exchequer, and we

had even less money.

LAUGHTER

0:23:550:23:59

We used to love walking on hamster

teeth, with dad yodelling out his

0:23:590:24:08

favourite theme tune for our jaunts,

the entry of the clowns, that famous

0:24:080:24:12

circus theme... The views from

Parliament Hill Fields are

0:24:120:24:19

absolutely fantastic. The skyline

has changed enormously since I was a

0:24:190:24:22

boy. Dad died at 98, two years short

of his hundredth birthday, and I

0:24:220:24:31

think it was his great ambition,

actually, even more than to be Prime

0:24:310:24:35

Minister, was to lift to 100. He

didn't quite make it, -- live to

0:24:350:24:41

100, but two years on we are there

now, and I can say it is happy

0:24:410:24:45

birthday, dad. APPLAUSE

0:24:450:24:49

Thank you for sharing those lovely

memories. He has inherited the

0:24:500:24:54

eyebrows, hasn't he? And the voice.

It says a lot about him that

0:24:540:24:57

although he must have had an

incredibly stressful life at work,

0:24:570:25:00

those are the memories Tim has as a

dad at home.

Beautiful. What was it

0:25:000:25:05

like growing up to you as a child,

Christopher?

I was very happy, I had

0:25:050:25:10

that kind of, huge amount of love

and laughter in my family. I had a

0:25:100:25:14

great childhood, really.

And you

have a wonderful little from your

0:25:140:25:20

parents, Shakespeare, the complete

works. Shall I tell everyone what

0:25:200:25:23

has been happening over the last two

and a half minutes?

Don't spoil it,

0:25:230:25:27

we will surprise everyone.

That I

won't say anything, just take it

0:25:270:25:31

away, whatever you want to do.

Trying to get in character. Hail

0:25:310:25:39

Macbeth, Hail to the, fading of

Calder.

I know I am fain have

0:25:390:25:42

glanced that power of Cawdor? Safe

from whence you owe this strange

0:25:420:25:50

intelligent and why you stop our way

upon this blasted heath. Speak, I

0:25:500:25:56

charge you.

Seek to know no more.

Bit of live Shakespeare there.

0:25:560:26:05

Loving your work!

You saw it here

first!

I will never be as good at

0:26:050:26:11

you.

I don't know.

RSCH, come on.

There is good reason we are talking

0:26:110:26:17

about Shakespeare because you are

deep in rehearsal for Macbeth.

Yes.

0:26:170:26:22

When I was 17 I was in an amateur

production of Macbeth, and it toured

0:26:220:26:26

round the North West of England and

there was wine, women and song

0:26:260:26:29

involved in it. I had a small part

in it and I fell in love with the

0:26:290:26:35

lifestyle, but I fell in love with

the play. It is because of that play

0:26:350:26:38

that I became an actor. At 17 I have

this ridiculous notion that one day

0:26:380:26:43

I wanted to play Macbeth. It is a

true story, it sounds American, but

0:26:430:26:47

it's not.

It actually happened,

yeah.

I decided I will wanted to

0:26:470:26:52

play Macbeth at the Royal

Shakespeare Company, and at 504I

0:26:520:26:57

have managed to do it.

APPLAUSE

When I set off to drama school, my

0:26:570:27:05

mum and dad went to Marks &

Spencer's, which is The posh shop,

0:27:050:27:08

as you know, make bought me the

complete works of William

0:27:080:27:12

Shakespeare. The woman at the till

said, bloody hell, Shakespeare, you

0:27:120:27:16

too must be clever. My dad

apparently said, it is not for me,

0:27:160:27:20

it is my son, he is an actor. And my

mum took the Mickey because I was

0:27:200:27:25

nowhere near. My dad gave me my love

of language. My dad was a man for

0:27:250:27:31

his crosswords. He used to take his

dictionary out and he would pick a

0:27:310:27:34

word out, with the word out and say

isn't this a marvellous word? He had

0:27:340:27:38

a burning desire for language will

stop when he had his dementia,

0:27:380:27:42

sometimes if you got anxious,

because I'd played Hamlet and I

0:27:420:27:45

would sometimes do some of the

Hamblett things for him in the

0:27:450:27:48

Trafford centre and it would calm

him down.

He would be so proud of

0:27:480:27:52

you.

I am very proud of him,

actually, I was very proud of my

0:27:520:27:56

dad.

Macbeth opens at the Royal

Shakespeare Theatre on 13th March.

0:27:560:28:09

Best of luck with it.

Thank you very

much full stop

one reason why people

0:28:090:28:12

love The A Word is because it is set

against the stunning background of

0:28:120:28:15

the Lake District.

0:28:150:28:15

famous for its fast flowing

becks and waterfalls.

0:28:150:28:17

Patrick's been to another

of our spectacular natural parks,

0:28:170:28:19

The Yorkshire Dales,

which is blessed with similar

0:28:190:28:22

Rivers are a constantly changing

force of nature. If every British

0:28:250:28:28

river was connected in one single,

meandering line, it would circle the

0:28:280:28:33

Earth, twice. The Yorkshire Dales

national park has some of the

0:28:330:28:42

fastest flowing rivers in the UK,

and many spectacular waterfalls.

0:28:420:28:48

This landscape is unpredictable. And

constantly changing. So only the

0:28:510:28:58

most adaptable animals can thrive

here. One bird particularly well for

0:28:580:29:06

life in the falls is the dipper.

They're dipping and bobbing is

0:29:060:29:12

thought to help them pinpoint

underwater prey, and with a meal in

0:29:120:29:16

sight, their unique river skill is

revealed. They can swim underwater.

0:29:160:29:25

Within large to preen glands, ten

times the size of other birds, they

0:29:250:29:29

can give their feathers the

essential waterproofing that they

0:29:290:29:33

need. Highly developed wing muscles

help them push against the currents.

0:29:330:29:37

Strong legs and feet provide grip,

and an additional eyelid protects

0:29:370:29:42

their eyes whilst underwater. It is

these unique adaptations that will

0:29:420:29:49

help the dippers survive the

approaching the river. Autumn has

0:29:490:29:57

arrived, and the leaves are on the

term. Injecting their burst of

0:29:570:30:01

colour into the river habitat. At

this time of year, rain is never far

0:30:010:30:07

away, and the first downfall of the

season has begun. Autumn brings with

0:30:070:30:14

it the UK's highest rainfall,

causing some rivers in the Dales to

0:30:140:30:19

rise three metres in just 20

minutes.

0:30:190:30:26

minutes. As the river rises, the

excess water of the falls comes

0:30:260:30:28

crashing down, and becomes a raging

torrent, heading straight for the

0:30:280:30:34

differs. It is such a chant up

riverbed, no matter how many times a

0:30:340:30:41

dipper dips and bobs, their

visibility is hampered, making it

0:30:410:30:45

extremely difficult to hunt, and

even they struggled to battle

0:30:450:30:51

against these new currents, and can

only stand and watch, as their meals

0:30:510:30:56

rush quickly passed. This inability

to hunt means many dippers won't

0:30:560:31:00

make it past their first year on the

river. Luckily, this autumn downfall

0:31:000:31:06

passes quickly, and the river

returns to its natural rhythm once

0:31:060:31:09

more. Allowing the dippers to

continue doing what they do best.

0:31:090:31:17

Beautiful.

Beautiful.

0:31:170:31:19

Thanks to Christopher

for joining us.

0:31:190:31:24

Round of applause for Christopher.

Tomorrow,

0:31:240:31:30

Matt Baker and Angellica Bell are joined by Christopher Eccleston to talk about his upcoming drama and taking on the role of Macbeth. Plus, the two barristers investigating murder convictions that could be miscarriages of justice.