29/01/2013 The One Show


29/01/2013

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Hello, welcome to The One Show with Matt Baker... And Alex Jones. On

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tonight's show, we find out how these two X German refugees helped

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turn the tide of Second World War by working for Britain. And a man

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for All seasons, even if they didn't come in the right order last

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year, it is Monty Don. Nice to see you, welcome back. Always good to

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see you. Always good to think we are going to have a nice relaxed

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programme. And you know for the next 12 months it is going to rain,

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that always happens when I come on. Back in March, we asked you to come

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up with some plants that would be great for drought conditions. And

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the weather through all sorts at us. We do apologise for people who went

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out there and planted time and all sorts of things. We said there

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would be a drought and the floods came. How is it going? We had snow,

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lots of flooding. It has been so, so wet. When I left yesterday,

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there were floods. Did you have that freak thing over the weekend

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when there was snow and then it just disappeared? We had eight

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inches of snow, it poured with rain all night and by Saturday lunchtime

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all of it was gone and the water was rising. It was about 15 degrees

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warmer. Walking around the garden and picking up bits and pieces?

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About that deep in mud. It is a muddy garden, just walking. You

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throw a ball for a dog, and there If your garden is struggling and he

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would like to know how to fix it, send your questions and a picture

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of yourself and we will have a wet garden clinic with Monty Don later.

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Happy with that? AO, yes. As if we hadn't had enough water after the

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recent snow, then comes the big thaw. Then there will be lots of

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water in the form of flooding. Authorities in Shropshire have been

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hard at work fighting the flood water, erecting emergency flood

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defences. Iwan Thomas has been with This area was the birthplace of the

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Industrial Revolution. In The A- Team century, barges would

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transport limestone and coal along the Severn river. It is now a World

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Heritage Site. Protecting it is in everybody's interest. The last four

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months have seen heavy rain and flood across the country. Saturated

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ground has meant that Ironbridge in Shropshire is in the firing line.

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It is 9:30pm. Although it is dark, I can clearly see that the water

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has risen loads. I would say it is two or three feet. And the pace of

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the water is pretty frightening. If there is any doubt this place needs

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flood defences, here is the proof. This picture is from about 50 years

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ago. The water level is right up to the windows. It is now 11 o'clock

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at night. The guys have just turned up. This is stage one of getting

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flood defences up and ready. Originally, this barrier was built

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using pallets. Since 2004, this flat-pack version, built by

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engineers, is quickly erected in times of emergency. Chris is one of

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the Environment Agency officers deployed for flood management. Any

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talk me through the process of how it is assembled? This chain is

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purely for weight that is going to be on top of tall Paul then, that

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is going to go on this barrier defence. -- tarpaulin. It's quite

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high, how high do you think it will reach? It has been pretty high. In

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2007, we were somewhere near the top. This is the best mechanism you

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have got? The whole scheme is designed so we can get into places

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where you do not have to have something permanent. If you're

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doing a permanent structure, you would have a permanent wall and he

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would put flood gates on it. That really expensive. I've been here

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since 8 o'clock. How much longer do they take? They are going quickly,

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but they are earning their wages? They certainly are, they are going

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to be here until about four or five in the morning. Slightly different

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from last night. It is done, the boys have done their work. The

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waterproof is on top. They've done a good job, exactly what you're

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saying. Now we have the waterproof layer on, the pressure of the water

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is keeping it down on the barrier. To some people it doesn't look

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overly dramatic, believe me, it would be a whole road full of water

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in the property's. As I am standing here, it does not look that

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dramatic, not very deep. But it would spread right across the road?

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It is also full of sediment, that get into properties and causes a

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lot of damage. The boys are in bed, it is mid-morning and they have

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worked all through the night. I think they deserve their sleep.

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They've done a really good job. I'll thoughts are with you if you

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are experiencing flooding or you are about to be hit by them. We

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were just talking about your new series. It is all about French

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gardens. You are a big lover of France. It has taken a long time

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for you to look at them in detail. You've been around the world, two

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Italian gardens, but not French ones? I've got a relationship with

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France, I have been going for a long time. I first went when I was

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14. I used a bus to get from London. I was trying to go to Greece. I was

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busking, I didn't get any money. I was astounded by the light. I

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really don't do well in the dark. The plants, the colours, the

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markets, just intoxicating. I went back and I spent six months there

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without any grand plan. But I haven't got my television act

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together to actually go, look, look at these amazing gardens. Fantastic

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gardens. In the first episode you introduce us to the fantastic work

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of Ade Gardner who designed a massive garden, I think we have it

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He broke the mould, the effortless way that the garden opens out to do

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it visitor. Carefully judge changes in level meant that Ali's, pools,

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cascades and the canal gradually reveal themselves as you walk

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through. Mind you, he had a limitless fortune and an army of

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18,000 men to car of this out of King Louis XIV's chief minister

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threw a party to celebrate making the garden. One of them was the Sun

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King, 21 years old. He showed his king nets, and the king was so

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furious he had spent all of his money. He threw him into prison for

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the rest of his life, confiscated everybody that worked there, he dug

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up all of the plants and said he wants a better garden than that.

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Is that how it works on Gardeners' World? Yes, rip them out! He was an

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incredible character. He has this beautiful book that was translated

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into many languages? One of the great geniuses. He changed the

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world. He opened it out, and everything had been introverted

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before them. The whole of France, it still remains, that book went on

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to be a bestseller. A gardening book prototype. People would say, I

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want that, open it up. It was published after his death,

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extraordinary. The thing you notice is that the French have a very

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specific way of gardening. Everything is very regimented.

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Controlled. Is there anything that we can learn from the French?

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Partly it was this idea of ordering nature, control, symmetry. They

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still love that. Also, dela ideas. They love concepts. They will make

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a garden that symbolises the retreat of the Sun from the Moon,

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rising up. They love that. There is a garden in Normandy, then our

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gardens in the South, it sort of melds into the landscape. You get

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this combination of order, rhythm, balance and control, with quite

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loose planting. That is lovely, really beautiful. As well as design,

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you look at fruit and veg, artistry? It's all there, anyway,

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it starts on Friday at 9pm on BBC Two. It is on a little bit later in

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Wales. If Britain was up against France in

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a gardening head to head, what could we possibly put against the

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Champs-Elysees? I think we should let Christine Walkden onto that one.

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For centuries, we have wrestled to control nature, sculpting the

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landscape around us into a more formal sculpture. These magnificent

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green, maids are an example of that. Living architecture, nearly 200

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years old. They are part of a once grand horticultural craze that

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first took hold of Britain in the 17th century. Each has a story to

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tell. Like Kingston Avenue in Dorset, planted in 1835 as an

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extravagant gift from the Duke to his mother. Possibly one of the

:10:36.:10:46.
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most impressive avenues is here in This double lined avenue is the

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longest in Europe and it contains 1296 trees. It stretches for very

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nearly two miles. Laid out in 1838 by the 4th Duke of Newcastle, it

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took three years to plant them all. Visitors to the estate from

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neighbouring landowners to loyalty will have travelled along the

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Avenue, marvelling at the living buttresses of the great green roof

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They must have been very impressed, going along in a horse-drawn

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carriage it feels like it stretches on forever. A huge statement like

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this needs constant maintenance, otherwise chaotic nature will start

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taking hold. For landscape managers like Gareth Jones, it is a constant

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battle keeping the avenue in trim. But in the 1960s, this and other

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tree avenues were very nearly lost when they came under attack from

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the particularly ferocious winter moth. The female is flightless. She

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has to climb up the tree to lay her eggs for the caterpillars to hatch.

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There was an epidemic of them and virtually every leaf was eaten.

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advance was halted by some clever natural thinking. A black grease

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Band was put around all of the trees to try to prevent further

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outbreak. We have not had one since then. The park is well maintained,

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but historically we have lost many tree avenues across Britain duty

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bad storms and disease. To try and halt the decline, arboriculturists

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are aiming to survey every Trai in Britain. We are trying to get an

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overview of the populations, the ages, the species, what condition

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they are in. It would give us an idea of when we are going to have

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to start replacing them and how they have got to be managed. We

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will keep alive the stories about the people that planted these huge

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avenues hundreds of years ago. We may have enough information to put

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forward a proposal to list avenues so that they are protected, like

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listed buildings. Rooted in history, tree avenues were once the physical

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expression of a wealthy landowner's vanity. They were intended to

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impress everybody that came to visit. As a gardener, I hope we

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never lose these trees. I hope they can be saved for the nation,

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because, if we do lose them, the stories of their creation would be

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You would be slightly envious of her doing that film?

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interesting thing is that is what French gardens are all about,

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avenues. It's a very French thing to talk about the concept of the

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avenue. But they make this link, ordering nature in two minds, but

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including it. They make that connection between the garden and

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the wild, you know, this unruly, wild boars. You can do it in a

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garden. And lime trees are good? Very good, bees like them as well.

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Before we meet the two men who helped to change the course of the

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Second World War, Larry Lamb has been to find out how British

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prisoners of war in the Far East kept themselves sane through years

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of captivity. This gate is a particularly

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touching memorial to the fallen of World War II. It was constructed in

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1942 by the inmates of a prisoner- of-war camp in Singapore to stand

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at the entrance to the camps cemetery. It was billed as a

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tribute to their comrades, who had died in this notorious Japanese

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$:/STARTFEED. It was restored and brought to Britain as a tribute.

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They crafted this while undergoing terrible hardships. It's one of a

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list of remarkable list that the men undertook. Midge's father has

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written a book about her father's experience. It was about the battle

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against bore Dom, because you don't know how long you'll be there, so

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anything that lifts your spirits, performing or even taking exams or

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studying languages. Think that takes you out of your jail. What

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sort of things would prisoners have involved themselves in? People

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might have been university lecturers at home, so naturally

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they would want to teach the POWs and that happened in the Far East

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and Europe. You might have read Jane Austen or Shakespeare. The Red

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Cross would send the papers and the POWs would sit the exams under the

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strict conditions and they prided themselves on the fact they were

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like the men and women back home. One man who took advantage of this

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was Cambridge graduate John Vickers. Novelist, Sally, is his daughter.

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He was captured on May 27th 1940 and spent the whole of the war in

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the camps. He learnt Serbo-kroat and modern Greek and Russian from a

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Pole. He also taught history to the whole of the camp. Red Cross

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appeals supplied libraries with books. John used them to study for

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a teaching qualification and to read for pleasure. He kept one book

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as a war-time memento. He took Moby Dick. I've kept it. You see it in

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the front. I think it was from the -- this is the only time my father

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stole anything in his life. prisoners in the Far East, they

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faced even greater hardships. Conditions in the camps were

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appalling and brutality was the order of the day. Physical escape

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was virtually impossible, which made mental escape even more

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important. John Lowe was a prisoner of the Japanese, confineed in huts

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like this replica at the national arboretum. He was a keen amateur

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musician who managed to hone his skills. In this camp somehow there

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was a small accordian and when somebody died I played Abide Me

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With Me. -- Abide With Me. Someone told him I played by ear and he

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said he would teach me classical music and from then on we sat down

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and he would sing the notes until I had it and I could play it.

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love of performing kept John going and it's never left him, but he has

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particular memories of a play he produced in his camp on Taiwan.

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the middle of the play there are one or two simple love scenesened I

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wondered they would be messed up, but there was not a sound. Not a

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single sound throughout the play. Many years later, I produced many

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plays, but I think that one was the best thing I ever did. It's an

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honour to meet men like John. Their spirit pulled them through in the

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camps they experienced the worst of man's inhumanity to man, but they

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responded by turning it into something positive. They are an

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inspiration to us all. # Abide With Me... #

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We are joined by historian Helen Fry and two ex-German refugees who

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worked for the British during World War II. Eric Mark and Fritz Lustig,

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nice to see you. Helen, differently to what we heard with Larry, some

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high-ranking German prisoners were treated extremely well, weren't

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they, in the UK camps and there was a specific reason behind that?

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there were. These are the last two surviving listeners that basically

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secretly bugged the conversation of the Nazi prisoners during the war-

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time and through that they gained information on some of Hitler's

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closely-guarded secrets. The cells were like the radio version of Big

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Brother, so Fritz, what were you listening to? What kind of

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information? We were briefed concerning each cell. We would

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listen to them. There were two prisoners in each cell. We were

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listening to probably two to three cells at a time. We were bugging

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from one cell to the other and we were told what information was

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expected from each prisoner. This was mainly what we were asked to

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look out for, or to listen for, was military information, either from -

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it was a navy prisoner, naval information and if they were Air

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Force, it was air information and until the invasion of the continent,

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D-Day in 1944, they were mainly naval and Air Force prisoners.

:20:34.:20:39.

After D-Day there was a great influx of army prisoners as well.

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We were told what to listen out for, but not only military information

:20:44.:20:48.

was expected to be recorded by us, but also political information. For

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instance, if a prisoner had been home on home leave, what conditions

:20:52.:20:56.

were like in the home town, what the mood was and so on. That would

:20:56.:21:03.

be used by political propaganda. Eric, during your time as listeners,

:21:03.:21:08.

what key pieces of intelligence then did you find out? Well, I will

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only quote one, because it happened to be one which was very important.

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At the time, when the Germans were beginning to launch the V1 and the

:21:17.:21:22.

V2 rockets, we needed to find out where were they coming from, what

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were the technical aspects of each of the delivery vehicles, what

:21:29.:21:33.

could you expect on the ground and where were they coming from exactly.

:21:33.:21:40.

If we knew that, if we found that out through the conversations, then

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the RAF could use it in order to bomb those places. I should just

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add that when I went to Holland after the war I found that we were

:21:51.:21:56.

in the place which had been successfully bombed by the RAF and

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we have actually been in a flat on the outside. What did it feel like

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for you, because obviously you had left Germany a long time ago, but

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what was it like spying on what were your foe? I was lucky enough

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as a young boy to be sent by my parents to the UK at a time when

:22:20.:22:25.

the Nazi element in Germany was becoming stronger and when I was

:22:25.:22:31.

subjected to an attack in the school. The director of the school

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summoned my father and said this boy has to go. He said he had been

:22:37.:22:40.

attacked, he said, "Yes, but I can't guarantee his safety in

:22:40.:22:48.

future." I had to leave that school and my parent sent me to the UK.

:22:48.:22:52.

It's a longer story, but I arrived as a 12-year-old boy without my

:22:52.:22:56.

parents. I managed to get my brother over a few years later, but

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I never managed to get my parents out. So many stories. We could talk

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to you lads all night long, but unfortunately we haven't got time

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thank you so much to all of you for sharing your stories. There's a lot

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more about the secret listeners in Helen's book. Now, across the

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country, councils are trying to bring dog owners to heal with tough

:23:22.:23:26.

new measures. However, well-behaved owners are fed up with what they

:23:26.:23:30.

say is unfair treatment. Glory Hunniford takes one councillor to

:23:30.:23:38.

meet a pack of them. Even on a cold day, there are few

:23:38.:23:42.

finer pleasures in life than the freedom of walking a dog along a

:23:42.:23:46.

wind-swept coast. We are a nation of dog lovers and I'm happy to say

:23:46.:23:52.

I have two myself, very like Jenny here, but lately many councils have

:23:52.:23:55.

introduced stricter dog controls. Sometimes for very, very good

:23:55.:23:58.

reasons. But then dog owners are claiming that because of their

:23:58.:24:08.
:24:08.:24:08.

rights, they are being well and truly muzzled. Dog lovers in the

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North Down area of Northern Ireland are up in arms. Under proposed

:24:12.:24:17.

plans, dog walkers on parts of this beach will be banned for nine hours

:24:17.:24:21.

a day during the summer months, from letting their dogs run free

:24:21.:24:25.

like this. Elsewhere on the coastal path, they'll be forced to be on a

:24:25.:24:29.

lead all year round and in some public places one person won't be

:24:29.:24:35.

able to walk more than two dogs. have four dogs and I would not be

:24:35.:24:39.

allowed to walk the four of them together. I would need to take them

:24:39.:24:41.

out separately. Another big issue for me is the coastal path. The

:24:42.:24:46.

four dogs would need to be on a lead, which isn't very acceptable.

:24:46.:24:50.

You are used to letting them loose? Absolutely. They run free and

:24:50.:24:54.

socialise. This is the way I've been letting off the steam. We

:24:54.:24:58.

think it's better for the council to educate rather than legislate

:24:58.:25:02.

and work with responsible dog owners. Professional dog walker

:25:02.:25:08.

David agrees that the council's plans are barking mad. I feel

:25:08.:25:12.

strongly that the rules which are posed are very over the top. It's

:25:12.:25:16.

so important for dogs' health to get off the lead and get a proper

:25:16.:25:20.

run and exercise. That really is affecting a great many dog lovers

:25:20.:25:24.

along here, because it's a popular coastal path. Responsible dog

:25:24.:25:29.

walkers like David play by the rules, but sadly, others don't.

:25:29.:25:33.

Persistent fouling and nuisance dogs are a constant problem for all

:25:33.:25:37.

local authorities. Elsewhere in the UK, many councils have already

:25:37.:25:41.

introduced similar controls, but this has created a patchwork of

:25:41.:25:45.

complicated laws that can baffle dog owners. The rules vary from

:25:45.:25:48.

council to council and beach to beach and in fact some beaches have

:25:48.:25:52.

banned dogs from being on them altogether. The dogs' trust

:25:52.:25:57.

believes that banning isn't the answer and could affect owners'

:25:57.:26:01.

legal duties to properly exercise their dogs. Within the animal

:26:01.:26:04.

welfare legislation people have to get their dogs out to exercise.

:26:04.:26:08.

It's part of the legislation. That would worry me. One of the

:26:08.:26:13.

restrictions is that an owner can't take out more than two dogs. How do

:26:13.:26:17.

you react to that? Some councils will say you are able to walk four

:26:17.:26:23.

dogs and others will say only two on a lead. It's totally confusing.

:26:23.:26:26.

Nearly 1700 residents have petitioned the coucil here

:26:26.:26:30.

demanding a rethink, but councils do have the difficult task of

:26:30.:26:34.

trying to balance their competing demands of residents who all want

:26:34.:26:38.

to enjoy the shared spaces. Peter Martin who worked on the new

:26:38.:26:42.

proposals has bravely agreed to meet me with some of the

:26:43.:26:51.

campaigners and their dogs. Before the consultation we can -- had

:26:51.:26:55.

evidence that there had been fouling on the paths. It was the

:26:55.:27:01.

irresponsible owners. The main part of what Peter is saying, there are

:27:01.:27:04.

a minority, but I don't think introducing the orders is going to

:27:04.:27:11.

solve that problem. Why not? It's us who will be penalised. You are

:27:12.:27:21.

over the top says, Heather. -- top, says Heather. We don't want the

:27:21.:27:23.

dogs on beaches period, some people say. The people here are

:27:23.:27:27.

responsible and I'm making a case for dogs. We have people who want

:27:27.:27:31.

them banned completely and we're in the middle of it. The council will

:27:31.:27:34.

make a final decision in the next month. Until then, dog walkers here

:27:34.:27:41.

are determined to make the most of their spaces while they can.

:27:41.:27:45.

Thank you. I'm sure that lots of people's gardens looks like the

:27:45.:27:49.

beach, because we asked for questions about wet gardens. This

:27:49.:27:54.

is from Roy. He said the garden is currently mud. How does he restore

:27:54.:28:02.

it back to lawn? He's 66 today. I'm preassuming that isn't a mud pie.

:28:02.:28:05.

If it's any consolation Longmeadow is a mud heap too. It's the same

:28:05.:28:10.

for all of us. Two things, one, it's only January, so give it a

:28:10.:28:13.

chance. We have another couple of months for things to recover and we

:28:13.:28:19.

could have a lot more snow yet. Two, get the drainage going, so as soon

:28:19.:28:25.

as it's dry enough, but not until, fork it, get the drainage up and

:28:25.:28:29.

that will get air in and the grass will start to grow. Grass grows

:28:29.:28:33.

above six degrees, so when it warms up it will grow and it's amazing

:28:33.:28:41.

how it recovers. 30 seconds. Susan from Stoke, how do you prepare the

:28:41.:28:47.

raised vadges for string sewing -- vegetables for string sewing?

:28:48.:28:53.

you put a layer of organic material over the soil in raised beds. Don't

:28:53.:28:56.

be in a hurry, it's fine. You don't need to sew until April. Calm down

:28:56.:29:04.

I would say. One word, when should I prune my roses? Now. That's it.

:29:04.:29:08.

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