17/06/2011 The Review Show


17/06/2011

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Tonight on The Review Show, a sneak Tonight on The Review Show, a sneak

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peek at the best films to come out of the UK's two biggest

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This week, the curtain closed on the This week, the curtain closed on the

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nation's largest documentary festival and opened on its most

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famous film festival, both giving an insider's view of the big hits of

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the year, what they are likely to be. The Edinburgh Film Festival is

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the grand dame. Now entering its 65th year it shows no sign

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getting old. We sat our panel in front of a selection of three from a

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programme of over 60 feature films. This year's Festival Gala Film is an

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offbeat buddy comedy The Guard starring Brendan Gleeson and Don

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Cheadle. Scottish director Mackenzie's offering is an

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the world love story starring Ewan MacGregor and Eva Green. In his

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first original screenplay for 20 years, Sir David Hare's

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years, Sir David Hare's BBC2 Page Eight, a security services

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thriller with a stellar including Bill Nighy, Rachel

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and Michael Gambon. Though young compared to Edinburgh, the Sheffield

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DocFest has been the hub of the British documentary industry for the

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last 17 years. Last week film makers, distributors and buyers from

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across the globe descended on the Yorkshire steel town to see the

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films that will be hitting the big and small screens in the coming

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year. The programme featured over 100 international docs, discussions

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and masterclasses. From these our panel looked at the thrilling

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Formula One archive documentary charting the life and death of motor

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racing prodigy Ayrton Senna. Spurlock's take

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Presents: The Greatest Movie Ever Sold; a 1970s experiment gone wrong

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in Project Nim and Terry Pratchett's moving insight into choosing to die.

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Joining me are documentary maker Joining me are documentary maker

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Molly Dineen, the activist, and film maker, Mark Thomas, Karen

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Krizanovich and Andrea Calderwood. As always, we do like a good tweet

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so if you would care to indulge the address is on the screen. First

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up tonight, one of the big hitters from this week's Edinburgh Film

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Festival, an unlikely buddy movie with two very unlikely buddies.

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The film pairs Brendan Gleeson and The film pairs Brendan Gleeson and

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Don Cheadle, who star as two mismatched law enforcers

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trail of a gang of drug traffickers. A familiar story perhaps only this

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time the setting isn't Brooklyn or Chicago, but rural Connemara. I

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thought only black lads are drug dealers? And Mexicans. While

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plays straight man as a diligent FBI agent, Gleeson's character is a

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straight talker with both politically incorrect attitudes

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a casual approach to crime fighting. I thought we might start by

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canvassing the neighbourhood. You lost me at "we". It's my day off. I

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guess he is one of those people who lulls you in to a false sense of

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security by pretending to be a buffoon but he is obviously the most

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intelligent person in the film really. Part crime thriller, part

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buddy movie, the director was also influenced by the western. I looked

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at a lot of John Ford's movies, he doesn't use many close-ups and he

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has a sort of company of actors and everybody gets their moment in the

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son. My other favourite is the screw balls, so those two, even though

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they seem dissimilar, they are the same sort of vibe about them so it

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was a conflation of the two really. I hate that miserablist strain of

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British and Irish film making. It really annoys me, I don't want to

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watch it anymore so when I got together with a costume

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production designer and Larry Smith the main thing was this is going to

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be intensely stylised, so that was deliberate that we decided on

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from the start. The agency? No, my husband is missing. I will

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slip into something a little less comfortable. So how does

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Irish setting change a well-worn format and how do the

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You certainly are an unconventional You certainly are an unconventional

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police officer. Thank you. was not meant as a compliment.

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Andrea, FBI meets Connemara. It is a totally different take on the buddy

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movie. Did it work? I loved that it was in Connemara, I thought

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fantastic and from the moment you see Brendan Gleeson at the

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of the film, that dead pan reaction to the first crash, you

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this is going to be a Brendan Gleeson is at

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the movie, isn't he? Totally. He drives the movie completely forward.

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All the other characters are two-dimensional, lots of fun, very

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quirky, but without Gleeson the film couldn't stand. He is brilliant in

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this and I really enjoyed it. I thought him and the one-liners

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it. Well, Gleeson is this incredibly kind of interesting

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character, very contradictory. There are times when we find his

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pretty shocking and appalling. Is he the dumbest guy or the smartest

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in the room? We are not quite sure, are we? I think we are very sure he

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is the smartest in the room at all times. I think he is wonderful.

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What about that dynamic between him and Cheadle Cheadle

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course the buddy movie pivots around this central relationship. It

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didn't feel like a buddy relationship to me but I thought it

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was wonderful and the issue of race - you wouldn't go near it but he is

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outrageous in this film. He gets away with saying some absolutely

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outrageous things, and Don Cheadle's character is meant to somehow get

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his way past that to them having this quite intimate connection

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somehow. Did that work for you? Yes, it Dell did totally and what

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also - yes, it did totally and saving his own life by shooting one

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of the drug traffickers and as he a baddie and is dying, he stops

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says to us: there were so many things I had left to do. It's an

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extraordinary moment of sentimentality in a film which is

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basically a cartoon, isn't it? is and it isn't because again you

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get one of the other drug traffickers, Mark Strong, they are

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sitting in a car discussing whether Bertram Russell was Welsh, talking

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about Dostoevsky. It's ludicrous. was sitting with hardened critics

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and I laughed all the way through. For a film, if it's a comedy and

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makes me laugh it has done its The wonderful thing is they show up

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if you are politically correct you are a bit thick really. If you can't

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see through what's happening here, it's not racism, he wants to

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you are going to respond. I it was brilliant writing. Let's go

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back to that Brendan Gleeson performance because for me what it

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said was that this is a film as we heard the director saying, that is

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not about Irish sentimentality. is the west of Ireland but it's

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meant to look like an ad, like a Roddy Dail adaptation, this is tough

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and gritty, slightly frayed the edges, western Ireland. It is a

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throwback to the dirty copse that kicked against it in the 70s, that

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did everything wrong but still got the guy that they needed to get.

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That's what I loved about this flawed character. Also there are

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terrible things happening but he is the smartest and can see through the

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smoke. It's actually quite hard to breathe life into the maverick

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character. It's actually a well-worn route. Yes. And Gleeson

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brilliant at it, I think he is really exciting. The film also

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really plays around with cliches and Hollywood conventions. You know,

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chucking a nod towards spaghetti westerns and playing around quoting

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little bits. It's almost film which is one of the lovely

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things about it, that the people who have made it obviously love film.

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It is a geek's film with guns. it doesn't get better than that. We

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are going to move on because we a lot to get through. If CSI:

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Connemara takes your fancy, it will be on general release

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August. Next up, two of the ticket films from Edinburgh, one

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from Sir David Hare and another reuniting Trainspotting pals Ewen

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Although he is still prolific as a Although he is still prolific as a

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playwright, it's 20 years since Sir playwright, it's 20 years since Sir

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Although he is David Hare penned a screenplay. Now

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for BBC2 he has returned to the screen with Page Eight,

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contemporary political thriller set among the spooks of MI5. Bill Nighy

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is long-serving operative Johnny Worricker, whose personal life and

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career take a dramatic turn is handed a top secret dossier by

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his oldest friend and head of MI5 Benedict Baron, played by Michael

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Gambon. I want to share a source and before we go any further, God's very

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excited. Why? I suppose like all home secretaries, God can't resist a

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file marked top secret. You going to read this and you

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to think hold on, the Americans meant to be our allies. I've never

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suffered from that delusion. The revelations on page 8 of this

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document risk destabilising the whole of the political establishment

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and Johnny faces a dilemma. I like faith jobs, I don't like

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anything to do with faith. The sun will rise in the morning, I'm going

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to have a drink at 6.00. Starring alongside Bill Nighy and Michael

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Gambon are Ralph Fiennes as British Prime Minister and Rachel Weisz as

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Johnny's beguiling neighbour.

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Perfect Sense directed by Film Festival stalwart sees Ewan

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MacGregor's character falling for Susan, a scientist struggling to

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escape a history of bad relationships. I'm Michael, I

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in the restaurant there. All right, sailor. I'm a chef. Good for you.

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Their emerging love affair develops Their emerging love affair develops

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against the backdrop of an inexplicable global pandemic whose

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sufferers experience an outpouring of emotion just before losing

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underof their five senses. Do not stand so close. They say it's not

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contagious. They don't know. Look, would you like me to take you back

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to your home? The heart of this thing is a love story but it's a

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film that has some science and has some fiction and it has some romance

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and it has, I guess, a kind of thrillery thing to it and

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it's in some way a story for our times.

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The film also reunites Ewan The film also reunites Ewan

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MacGregor with Trainspotting partner in crime Ewen Bremner. We've in a

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way sort of grown up together professionally. I think as an actor

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he really just gets stronger and stronger. He is a great

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working with and to be playing with and he has a great sense of humour.

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Blending contemporary romance with apocalyptic sci-fi, the film

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explores love and attraction in the face of mutual destruction.

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Mark, it's Sir David Hare's first TV Mark, it's Sir David Hare's first TV

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drama for 20 years. Was it worth waiting for? No. No, there's a

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reason that he hasn't directed in years and it's because he can't.

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There are three things wrong this film, which is for a

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it's not thrilling. He has to be suspenseful. The script

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like writing by numbers; and cannot direct. He points the camera

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at actors and hopes they will get in the way. That's harsh. Can you say

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that about Sir David Hare, that he can't write or direct? No, I didn't

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say he can't write. He is obviously a brilliant writer, but I said he

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writes by numbers. He puts: let's put the next bit of the story at the

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risk of losing anything to do with suspense, he just throws it all

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away. Are these characters living and breathing for you, Molly? I

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thought that was slightly harsh. No, they don't live and breathe. I

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passionately like Bill Nighy as an actor, he is wonderful, and Michael

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Gambon, but something about it was plodding. It's again why you love

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documentary, because it's real people doing real things. This

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seemed to me a wonderful situation but it seemed terribly artificial. I

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didn't believe in the characters what they were doing or saying.

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There is one critical relationship between Bill Nighy's

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Johnny Worricker, and Nancy, who is played by Rachel Weisz, and they are

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meant to have this sort of love affair, sort of not love affair, but

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there's this magnetic between the two of them. Did

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ring true for you? Well, you didn't see that coming at all. Beautiful

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woman next to Bill Nighy. No, that wouldn't happen. He does tend to

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get the cute girl, doesn't he? Every film. The thing about this

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I was reading before I saw it Sir David Hare was accusing the BBC

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of lacking innovation, and I this is going to be really

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innovative. Don't throw stones, you know, really don't, because there

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are some wonderful actors in there but there's no innovation that I can

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see. It does feel very much - this discussion between is it a film, is

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it a piece of television? know. I'm not sure. Television,

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think. But what struck me about it was the number of companies getting

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involved makes it like a film and TV can do really topical immediate

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drama, thinking about John Mackenzie who sadly died this week, as long as

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the Long Good Friday and he used to make these really immediate powerful

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dramas about life today and we all talk about it at school and

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all the lines, and it was just very quick, very strong turn-around

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television. If you have to I don't know exactly -

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different companies, a star-studded cast who are all fantastic, no

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wonder it can't be topical, urgent television. Is this a point then,

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that it perhaps compromises David Hare, a man who works very

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much in the theatre, that kind of creative compromise and the slowness

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of the decision-making process perhaps hampers these kind of films

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for people in theatre, or is it a different problem for you? I

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there is a different problem. think you are write because

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take time to get these projects together and actually the issue of

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UK government involvement in accusations of knowledge of torture

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and Guantanamo and all these failures in the intelligence

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like 7/7 are all important debates but actually they have

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happened by and large, in theatre and in film elsewhere, and then

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David Hare rolls up which isn't topical, therefore it needs to be

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dramatic; and it isn't. OK, we are going to move on to things of great

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importance such as the end world and loss of our senses. In

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films before we've had robotic uprisings, giant tidal waves, now

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it's the moment where all our senses evaporate in Perfect Sense. Karen,

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how did you feel about this movie? Did it sweep you off your feet? No,

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it reminded me of a lot of other films. Blindness is the film it

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brings up the most. I was looking forward to this because it

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uses Glasgow as a setting. I love Glasgow, I think it's a

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place, more films should be made here. In fact Johnny Depp was just

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up the road two days ago, telling you now. Trend

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thank you. It was important. Thank you. But I found that this really

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had technical problems, I think. Plinky music didn't help,

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over it didn't help, a hovering feel throughout didn't really throw up

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any tension or sense of pace or jeopardy really. I never

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to see a man eating mustard big spoon ever again. Yes, it's

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worth explaining that there are these scenes of rampaging hunger

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that one of the things that happens before you lose a sense is you have

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this violent emotion, whether it's guilt, hunger - You eat flowers.

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You eat lipsticks, flowers, so unpleasant scenes of mass eating

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going on. Also what they do in this film is interpolate the drama with

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these stock shots of global stuff, so you see shots from around the

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world of people violently suddenly stricken by grief. Did that use of

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montage work for you in way it was cut into the film? There

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was some lovely footage there but for me what didn't work was there

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wasn't a sense of the couple. The couple are more

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interested in their relationship than the imminent end of the world

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going on around them. Maybe if Eva Green's character hadn't been an

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epidemiologist then it been more effective because you

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she should have been out there saving the world rather than saving

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their relationship, but the thing about it was their

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relationship. The two Euans were so good together. There was a fantastic

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characterisation in the middle of but it didn't seem to connect to the

:18:18.:18:22.

end of the world that was going somewhere else. Particularly

:18:22.:18:24.

because she was meant to be an epidemiologist. She wasn't that

:18:24.:18:27.

interested in tracking down where this thing came from. The

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was talking about how there was little science and a little fiction.

:18:30.:18:34.

Actually there was no science and barely any fiction. But a lot of

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great sex. I think that's open to interpretation. LAUGHTER.

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OK, Molly is allowed to like the sex. That's fine. I thought it was

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intensely romantic going on between them but quite bizarre that they

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bothered to cast her as having that job when she was clearly not on the

:18:51.:18:56.

job. She was supposed to be stopping the end of the world

:18:56.:18:59.

instead of which she was having great sex and eating soap. Who can

:18:59.:19:05.

object to that? If you have the perfect sense to go and see either

:19:05.:19:10.

of those Page Eight will be on BBC2 in early autumn and Perfect Sense is

:19:10.:19:14.

on general release from the end October. Now to

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Documentary Festival and our pick of the best beginning with two films, a

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new departure for one of the starriest names in the documentary

:19:22.:19:30.

world and another film dealing Formula One's most enduring legend.

:19:30.:19:33.

Only one word describes Ayrton's Only one word describes Ayrton's

:19:33.:19:38.

style and that is "fast". Ayrton Senna exploded onto the Formula One

:19:38.:19:42.

stage in the mid-1980s, dominating the Grand Prix circuit for the next

:19:42.:19:48.

decade. Idolised in his native Brazil, his high profile rivalry

:19:48.:19:56.

with team mate Alain Prost generated unprecedented interest in the sport.

:19:56.:20:01.

I think it's going to get more and more exciting, the championship. Is

:20:01.:20:08.

it possible to be cool? No, can only be one winner. The doctor

:20:08.:20:14.

director traces the story of Senna's career out of archive footage both

:20:14.:20:18.

in and out of the McLaren car. My biggest worry was how do I make this

:20:18.:20:23.

film cinematic, how do I make it a movie, emotional for people who are

:20:23.:20:26.

not Formula One fans? For me it became clear early on that we don't

:20:26.:20:30.

need contemporary interviews. There is an amazing drama and tension

:20:30.:20:34.

inherently in the original footage. If anyone was going to narrate the

:20:34.:20:36.

film it had to be Senna. I wanted him to have the first and last

:20:36.:20:40.

in the film and if we need to explain to fill

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couple of scenes it should be Senna. REPORTER: Can you tell us

:20:45.:20:48.

happened in the first lap. Unfortunately we touched in the

:20:48.:20:51.

first corner when fighting for the lead and both went off.

:20:51.:20:53.

think that's because the pole position is on the wrong side of

:20:53.:20:57.

track here? You wanted to that. Absolutely. You fight, you

:20:57.:21:01.

break your BLEEP to be on pole then they put you on the wrong

:21:01.:21:05.

of the circuit. How do you feel about being world champion? It's

:21:05.:21:12.

Spurlock, having already taken on Spurlock, having already taken on

:21:12.:21:16.

McDonald's and Osama Bin Laden turns his gaze onto product sponsorship

:21:16.:21:21.

his new documentary. What I want to do is make a film about product

:21:21.:21:24.

placement, marketing and advertising where the entire film is funded

:21:24.:21:28.

product placement, marketing and advertising, so the movie will be

:21:28.:21:32.

called the Greatest Movie Ever Sold. Product placement is everywhere in

:21:32.:21:37.

today's film industry but Spurlock was first incensed by his personal

:21:37.:21:42.

life. A couple of things. One, the pervasiveness of advertising. You

:21:42.:21:46.

can't go anywhere without somebody trying to sell you something. I'm

:21:46.:21:50.

a cab there's an advert, you are pumping gas to put in your car and

:21:50.:21:53.

there's a have screen. You go to the bathroom, the one place that I

:21:53.:21:58.

thought was my sacred - my time, you go there and right in front of

:21:58.:22:01.

you is a big poster. With sponsorship in place and the film

:22:01.:22:04.

made, Spurlock is eager to the big questions and get

:22:04.:22:08.

discussion started. I think that when people leave this movie or

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people see this film, I think things that we should really be talking

:22:11.:22:14.

about is where do we draw the line approximate how much is too much?

:22:14.:22:23.

What are those what places should we keepsake red? I believe education

:22:23.:22:26.

should be free from this advertising influence, I don't think we should

:22:26.:22:30.

have advertising in schools. Molly, if you are not a film of Formula

:22:30.:22:34.

One, why should you watch this film? I think it's a great story,

:22:34.:22:39.

beautifully told. It's emotional. is fabulous. I don't know anything

:22:39.:22:42.

about Formula One racing and I watched it with my husband - thank

:22:42.:22:46.

God I did because you need to bit about it to understand the drama

:22:46.:22:48.

between the two competing drivers and there are certain things about

:22:48.:22:52.

the way it's all set up and apparent corruption within it, that

:22:52.:22:56.

was quite an important context the film. I still think it survives

:22:56.:22:58.

beautifully, even if any of that, I think it's a

:22:58.:23:03.

story and beautifully told. I would have loved just being a bit anoraky,

:23:03.:23:07.

I would have loved somebody to be part of it. Somehow I wanted

:23:07.:23:11.

it to be brought to now, whether be to interview the French driver -

:23:11.:23:15.

that's trying to remake somebody else's film but it was ever so

:23:15.:23:19.

slightly too archival. It's archive. Yes, it's worth saying

:23:19.:23:22.

there's nothing specially shot for this film so everything you see is -

:23:22.:23:28.

No, it's telling us a story, it's telling us something that some

:23:28.:23:34.

people knew about, my husband every single bit, I knew nothing. It

:23:34.:23:38.

did make me think: why now? And did that incredible archival

:23:38.:23:43.

research? The archive work is amazing. This is a triumph of

:23:43.:23:48.

editing. I don't like Formula One, I don't even drive, so I am the person

:23:48.:23:52.

who this should appeal to least of all in the world but I thought

:23:52.:23:58.

was fantastic. It was an epic, incredible story about obsession and

:23:58.:24:02.

rivalry but also about this driven man who just must win and win

:24:02.:24:06.

win. And how that kind of towards his death. I thought it was

:24:06.:24:10.

incredibly moving and beautifully done. Well, they are saying that

:24:10.:24:14.

it's actually remaking the idea of the sports biopic now that

:24:14.:24:18.

will have to do this kind of thing. Before I saw it critics were coming

:24:18.:24:22.

out, going: out, going: Senna, oh wow, and you

:24:22.:24:28.

never hear critics say that. I was saying what is that and they were

:24:28.:24:34.

saying: we forgot he is dead. It is so vivid. It made me think it would

:24:34.:24:37.

make a wonderful fiction film. slightly wondered why they did it

:24:37.:24:43.

that way. Because - a documentary maker. But it would also have made

:24:43.:24:47.

really great film. I disagree with you, you don't

:24:47.:24:51.

understand an awful lot about him, what motivated him, why he didn't

:24:51.:24:56.

have a wife or apparent girlfriends. I would love to ask him, when he

:24:56.:25:01.

says "I felt the presence of and he said it with a helmet with

:25:01.:25:06.

Marlborough all over it. Explain that. In some ways you think you

:25:06.:25:15.

shouldn't like this man, he is rich boy who grows up go-karting,

:25:15.:25:19.

but then he talks about finding extra dimension when he is driving

:25:19.:25:22.

where he forgets the car and circuit, he just is intuitive. There

:25:22.:25:25.

are some very beautiful thought from him. That's what

:25:25.:25:28.

surprised me. You would think Formula One, all about money and

:25:28.:25:35.

speed and that really annoying wasp noise that goes on - LAUGHTER. But

:25:35.:25:43.

actually inside that one car at least there is this thoughtful human

:25:43.:25:45.

being. He wants to achieve what he is going to achieve and get on

:25:45.:25:52.

the rest of his life but he doesn't. They have not only picked Alain

:25:52.:25:59.

Prost, this bitter rivalry, but there is almost - He is absolutely

:25:59.:26:03.

cast as the villain, when he his belief in God endangers other

:26:03.:26:10.

drivers and all this stuff. But was he the villain? I have no idea. I

:26:10.:26:14.

mean it's a documentary. Did he really cut the bloke off?

:26:14.:26:24.
:26:24.:26:24.

You see him as one of the pallbearers of the coffin - Well,

:26:24.:26:28.

that's guilt. That's why I'm saying it almost needed to be told as a

:26:28.:26:31.

fiction story based on reality because you are re-telling history

:26:31.:26:36.

using that footage. Well, I like to move on to another very much

:26:36.:26:40.

personality-driven film although of a very different kind. Morgan

:26:40.:26:44.

Spurlock's film is trying to investigate product placement

:26:44.:26:46.

through the nifty trick of product placement. Did that

:26:46.:26:55.

off? For me it didn't. I love Morgan Spurlock, I think he is very

:26:55.:27:00.

perky - Perky? That's abusive. I'm a yankee, I can say that. I think

:27:00.:27:05.

it's an interesting idea. Can I make a movie using product placement? I

:27:05.:27:09.

felt it was a one trick pony really. Once you discover what he is

:27:09.:27:15.

to do then we have fun with the same thing over and over again. I think

:27:15.:27:18.

that it's interesting for anybody that's trying to make a film and is

:27:18.:27:22.

finding funding a problem. I think that this, in a way he is almost

:27:22.:27:26.

making this for people that have been stuck in this funding

:27:26.:27:30.

I didn't really feel it was made particularly for a non-film making

:27:30.:27:35.

audience. Mark, one of the things that this film provokes you into

:27:35.:27:39.

thinking about is how the tension in Morgan Spurlock comes

:27:39.:27:43.

the idea of him wanting to be a creative film maker who makes the

:27:43.:27:46.

documentary he wants to make but then of course he is seeking money

:27:46.:27:51.

and has to make promises that have commercial value. The thing

:27:51.:27:56.

this film for me - I'm a Morgan Spurlock and I loved

:27:56.:28:02.

Supersize Me, and it changed McDonald's, it really did, and

:28:02.:28:08.

that's incredible. And turned over 26 million. Which again is

:28:08.:28:12.

26 million. Which again is incredible for a documentary. But I

:28:12.:28:16.

started out thinking this was really good movie, I liked the idea,

:28:16.:28:22.

and about 15 minutes in I suddenly thought: no, this is really bad,

:28:22.:28:26.

this is crap, it isn't going anywhere, and it started repeating

:28:26.:28:29.

itself. Then you become angry about it because the audience are the

:28:29.:28:32.

people who have been had at the of it. This isn't a film about

:28:32.:28:36.

product placement. It's product placement with a film about product

:28:36.:28:40.

placement in the middle of it. It operates at one very clever met at

:28:40.:28:47.

that level which is what are documentaries, how can we make this

:28:47.:28:51.

film a huge success so the people sponsoring the film are making

:28:51.:28:53.

money, there is an incredible circularity about it,

:28:53.:28:58.

same time you feel that you are being commandeered. Did that bother

:28:58.:29:02.

you? I went through and out other side. That's what's ironic. He

:29:02.:29:06.

really is a very good advertising executive. It's great to see him

:29:06.:29:10.

struggling, being a sort of travelling film salesperson myself,

:29:10.:29:15.

as a producer that's what you do, you go out and sell your film, so

:29:15.:29:22.

it's good to see somebody as as him getting the setbacks, going

:29:22.:29:25.

to the deodorant company and that's how you feel when you are trying to

:29:25.:29:29.

finance a film but for me the big problem was that it didn't have the

:29:29.:29:33.

big message of Supersize Me was the challenge of the film. He

:29:33.:29:37.

does it well but in the end it doesn't really matter. He had all

:29:37.:29:41.

these opportunities. Sao Paulo, city that bans

:29:41.:29:45.

advertising, what a fantastic thing, let's find out about that.

:29:45.:29:49.

Neuromarketing, how we affect children's brains. Absolutely

:29:49.:29:53.

brilliant. But he sips lightly it and in the end he said: all I can

:29:53.:29:58.

do is show you this. I can nothing else. For a man who made

:29:58.:30:01.

film that changed McDonald's, that's simply not good enough. We are

:30:01.:30:07.

going to have to leave it there. If you fancy being driven round the

:30:07.:30:14.

bend by Product Placement it's out at the end of September. Ayrton

:30:14.:30:22.

Senna is on general release now. Now, looking at how life ends and

:30:22.:30:25.

what it means to be human, or rather chimpanzee.

:30:25.:30:33.

Fresh from the Oscar-winning success of Man on Wire, this story is about

:30:33.:30:38.

a chimp brought up as human for study of communication between man

:30:38.:30:42.

and primate. The first of his into the human world when he

:30:42.:30:47.

taken away from his mother at birth. He was dancing hard. He

:30:47.:30:52.

struggle or try to get away. He just screamed. As much as he may be

:30:52.:30:58.

screaming and protesting, he is clinging. He was attaching for

:30:58.:31:08.
:31:08.:31:09.

life. Nim enjoyed the freedom of a 1970s liberal upbringing. I

:31:09.:31:16.

felt sexually engaged with him. There was a sensuality but Nim was a

:31:16.:31:23.

pre-teen. Though passed from to post, home to lab, Nim found a

:31:23.:31:29.

loyal friend in Bob. When you meet him, it's: wow, this chimpanzee has

:31:29.:31:33.

a personality that's - he is the most charming being you could ever

:31:33.:31:39.

meet. The actual footage is, you know, it speaks for itself. It

:31:39.:31:47.

really does, and Nim, he is good at speaking for himself.

:31:47.:31:50.

Chimps aren't humans. You have to Chimps aren't humans. You have to

:31:50.:31:51.

Chimps aren't humans. You have to kind of understand chimps to be able

:31:51.:31:52.

kind of understand chimps to be able kind of understand chimps to be able

:31:52.:31:53.

Chimps aren't humans. to understand how to work with

:31:53.:32:00.

How, in a fully working democracy, How, in a fully working democracy,

:32:00.:32:10.
:32:10.:32:11.

do you get from assisted death for those who have come asking for it

:32:11.:32:19.

with good reason to throwing Granny into the furnace? That seems to

:32:19.:32:29.

After premiering in Sheffield, Terry After premiering in Sheffield, Terry

:32:29.:32:32.

Pratchett's film brought the debate firmly into the UK as living rooms

:32:32.:32:37.

this week. The BBC followed his emotional journey to Dignitas in

:32:37.:32:39.

Switzerland, where Pratchett witnessed an assisted death and

:32:40.:32:47.

The person who wants to die must The person who wants to die must

:32:47.:32:57.
:32:57.:32:57.

make the last act in their life for himself or herself. Something

:32:57.:33:01.

apparently nothing wrong with them deciding to die, I would not go to

:33:01.:33:08.

the barricades, but if there is a clear and present reason such as a

:33:08.:33:16.

debilitating problem, to me there is a fairly sound case.

:33:16.:33:20.

21% of people receiving assisted 21% of people receiving assisted

:33:20.:33:24.

dying in Dignitas do not have terminal or progressive illnesses

:33:24.:33:29.

but rather a weariness of life. What do you do about someone who is

:33:29.:33:36.

hellbent on wanting to die? Even if they appear to be fit and well? But

:33:36.:33:43.

Who owns your life indeed. We are Who owns your life indeed. We are

:33:43.:33:46.

going to start with Project Nim, very much a story about the

:33:46.:33:49.

ownership of a life only this time it's a chimpanzee's life. This

:33:49.:33:54.

story, I thought, was - this is truth is stranger than fiction. It's

:33:54.:33:59.

the most fascinating story. I loved it. It was the most bizarre study of

:33:59.:34:04.

70s sexual politics. Obviously the chimpanzee and the tragedy of Nim is

:34:04.:34:14.
:34:14.:34:16.

what it's about and this man with a bizarre comb-over. He is the

:34:16.:34:22.

Professor who runs this what out to be

:34:22.:34:27.

they find out whether he has access to language and find out after this

:34:27.:34:32.

trauma to the chimpanzee: nothing. Which leaves us with a film

:34:32.:34:36.

human behaviour really. It is, and it is a film about the failure

:34:36.:34:41.

this group of people to allege - allegedly running a science project

:34:41.:34:49.

- to actually run one. The first person who has the chimp is

:34:49.:34:53.

essentially a Freudian psychoanalyst who has been given a chimp to look

:34:53.:34:56.

after. No training in being a zoologist or vet or anything like

:34:56.:35:00.

that, and it's just bizarre. keeps him at home and breast

:35:00.:35:05.

him. And gives it dope. It's like: what on earth are you doing?

:35:05.:35:08.

you have to remember this is follow-on to a genuine study

:35:08.:35:15.

was done properly on a chimp called Waschu and Nim was supposed to

:35:15.:35:18.

replicate the signing that that chimp actually did so that's why

:35:18.:35:22.

this was doubly heart-breaking for me because this was such

:35:22.:35:30.

experiment when the other was so fascinating. It was almost like

:35:30.:35:37.

Cheech and Chong get hold of science. Yes, it's worth saying lots

:35:37.:35:43.

of people gave this chimp marijuana. I think it's absolutely about us and

:35:43.:35:46.

animals and we plod along with our bizarre relationships with animals,

:35:46.:35:50.

what you do about their environments, whether you stimulate

:35:50.:35:55.

them or treat them as people. I - stylistically I needed my hand

:35:55.:36:00.

holding at the beginning. means I am a bit dumb by I watched

:36:00.:36:05.

it all the way through and was so lived for most of it. I was not sure

:36:05.:36:09.

what I was watching, these people really abusing this animal, it was

:36:09.:36:13.

distressing and I didn't get any reassuring signals until about

:36:13.:36:20.

an hour in. When I watched it the second time, I loved it. You wanted

:36:20.:36:23.

more moral guidance? If it's in the cinema, you have your audience, they

:36:23.:36:27.

know what they are going in to see, they are in the dark, you have all

:36:27.:36:29.

your attention and it's brilliant. If it's on television or people

:36:29.:36:33.

don't know or are watching something blind, I think you need something to

:36:33.:36:36.

help you know how to view that opening, so you know what's going

:36:36.:36:40.

on, because he is just with the archive footage and you are

:36:40.:36:44.

- he is just starting with this footage and you are introduced

:36:44.:36:47.

nutters abusing an animal and I responded strongly right

:36:47.:36:52.

beginning to just the chimp the baby taken away and living

:36:52.:37:00.

a human as if that's a really idea. But I think she is right and

:37:00.:37:06.

it's also about sexual politics of the 70s. Yes, but - You think it's

:37:06.:37:09.

about us and animals. They treat Nim as a human for the purposes of the

:37:09.:37:13.

experiment and as soon as the experiment is over he is back to

:37:13.:37:20.

being a chimp again and goes to an animal testing lab. The story gets

:37:20.:37:23.

incredibly unpleasant when you realise the scientist has no

:37:23.:37:28.

connection with that. But he is sitting there now and not being

:37:28.:37:30.

challenged at all. He telling us about it. But I don't

:37:30.:37:33.

think you need to challenge him because the film shows us it

:37:33.:37:35.

clearly about his self-glorification, it was

:37:35.:37:40.

about the chimp or signing, it was about his status within that little

:37:40.:37:44.

world of academia that he was in. Moving on to a film that has had an

:37:44.:37:49.

awful lot of press this week, Terry Pratchett's film Choosing to Die and

:37:49.:37:53.

we know well the subject matter assisted suicide but moving on to

:37:53.:37:55.

the actual circumstances of the film, the way it's made, approach

:37:56.:38:01.

film making, was it film for you? I thought it was

:38:01.:38:04.

very successful film. We have remember it's 60 minutes as a film

:38:04.:38:08.

and it was shown on television, also was shown at the festival, and

:38:08.:38:13.

think it's very spare. It's very focused and I think you have to

:38:13.:38:17.

really pay attention to this film because it's so

:38:17.:38:20.

very delicately and subtly made about something that's

:38:20.:38:28.

powerful. I found that very moving and deft and emotionally you are

:38:28.:38:31.

engaged immediately, even if don't really know who Terry

:38:31.:38:34.

Pratchett is. You are immediately emotionally engaged. It reminded

:38:34.:38:40.

a little of a documentary made in 2008 about somebody going over to

:38:40.:38:44.

Dignitas, but that was a Canadian documentary. Strange that nobody

:38:44.:38:47.

really seems to connect those this one is framed slightly

:38:47.:38:57.

differently because we do get intro and an outro. There was a

:38:57.:39:01.

discussion on the Newsnight debate earlier which is available on the

:39:01.:39:04.

iPlayer. The key to this was Terry Pratchett and his engagement with

:39:04.:39:08.

the camera. There's some very, very tight, intimate work of Terry

:39:08.:39:12.

talking to the camera very directly. But he is doing the job often the

:39:12.:39:17.

film maker has to do. He is turning round, when Peter Smedley has taken

:39:17.:39:21.

- they are about to actually - he about to die and he is commenting to

:39:21.:39:25.

us, saying: it's just like a tea party. Normally as the film maker,

:39:25.:39:28.

you would be filming that, you wouldn't have Terry in between. So

:39:28.:39:31.

there's something actually very reassuring about him holding

:39:31.:39:35.

hand throughout it. I thought it was a wonderful film but I did have a

:39:35.:39:39.

problem with the amount and volume of music. I didn't need the

:39:39.:39:42.

manipulation. I was already deeply moved by all of it and particularly

:39:42.:39:46.

when the younger man is dying, they are sitting together with the

:39:46.:39:51.

laptop, and they have gone his choice of music. And they

:39:51.:39:56.

choose Elgar, I think. Yes, I they had gone with Pink Floyd and

:39:56.:40:00.

then left the actual music, because the problem with Elgar and then

:40:00.:40:03.

dubbing it is that you are lifted into an emotional peak but I

:40:03.:40:08.

was so profoundly with it already. I think there's a really interesting

:40:08.:40:12.

thing with Terry Pratchett, as a of his books and I have to hold

:40:12.:40:18.

hands up and say I have read all of the Discworld novels, that actually

:40:18.:40:21.

he does what he does in the books. It's really familiar territory

:40:21.:40:25.

you know the books. This is a journey of himself glimpsing at his

:40:25.:40:29.

future self, which is incredibly moving and he has this old master

:40:29.:40:34.

with his young apprentice which is classic fantasy stuff in his weird

:40:34.:40:39.

hat and cloak setting off to load of characters who wouldn't

:40:39.:40:44.

out of place in his books. who are proper but not prim, not

:40:44.:40:48.

usual suspects, the Smedleys being this well to do family, tradition

:40:48.:40:52.

but very pragmatic and they are characters out of his book

:40:52.:40:55.

That's fascinating. But this is quest without a resolution. Terry

:40:56.:41:00.

Pratchett goes out to try to find an answer to the terrible question he

:41:00.:41:05.

will inevitably have to face and the end he leaves that door open.

:41:05.:41:08.

That's what is so moving about it and there has been this

:41:08.:41:12.

balance but actually the balance for me came from within Terry Pratchett.

:41:12.:41:15.

He in principle thinks people should be able to choose the moment

:41:15.:41:18.

their death in that circumstance but you can see how difficult that

:41:18.:41:20.

decision is going to be for because it's never an easy decision.

:41:20.:41:23.

It's like the People talk about if it's

:41:23.:41:28.

on demand people would do it without thinking but no one would ever

:41:28.:41:33.

that decision lightly and no one would ever take the decision that

:41:33.:41:37.

you can see Terry wrestling with. very provocative film and we

:41:37.:41:40.

going to have to leave it there. Project Nim will be in cinemas

:41:40.:41:45.

1st August and Choosing to Die along with that Newsnight debate on the

:41:45.:41:49.

issue is available now on the BBC iPlayer. That's just about it for

:41:49.:41:53.

tonight. My thanks to Molly Dineen and Karen Krizanovich, to called

:41:53.:41:58.

called and Mark Thomas. Remember, you can find out about all of

:41:58.:42:01.

tonight's items and send us your thoughts please on Twitter. We

:42:01.:42:07.

just about recovered from the tweets last week about Martha's

:42:07.:42:11.

Next week we step aside for slightly less rocking show than

:42:11.:42:17.

ours, Glastonbury, but the week afterwards Martha is back featuring

:42:17.:42:27.
:42:27.:42:27.

interviews with David Broth but for now here is Julian Velard with his

:42:28.:42:34.

album, Sentimental. Mr Saturday Night. A very Good Friday night to

:42:34.:42:41.

# Time has never been in love # Time has never been in love

:42:41.:42:44.

# He's just a no good hustler in club

:42:44.:42:50.

# To takes you home # Telling lies like any other guy

:42:50.:42:56.

# Tells you want you want to # He says if you get ahead in your

:42:56.:42:57.

career # I'm never here

:42:57.:43:03.

# My broken heart # And I should hate myself because

:43:03.:43:07.

I'm just # Sentimental fool in love

:43:07.:43:12.

# Can't get to sleep # 'Cos I'm thinking about us

:43:12.:43:17.

# Makes no difference if it's wrong or it's right

:43:17.:43:23.

# I'll stay awake just in case you come home tonight

:43:23.:43:28.

# come home to

:43:29.:43:32.

# I should leave you in the past # I should leave you in the past

:43:32.:43:35.

# Take the train or the plane # Something that goes really fast

:43:35.:43:40.

# And fly it to a place on the right track

:43:40.:43:44.

# I should be selling stocks and selling bonds

:43:44.:43:49.

# I should be making deals, creating jobs for the poor

:43:49.:43:55.

# Doing good for mankind # Instead of being stuck way back

:43:55.:43:59.

time # I'm just a sentimental fool in

:43:59.:44:02.

love # Can't get to sleep 'cos I'm

:44:02.:44:06.

thinking about us # Makes no difference if it's wrong

:44:06.:44:12.

or it's right # I stay awake just in case you come

:44:12.:44:22.
:44:22.:44:36.

home #

:44:36.:44:40.

# And I hate myself because # And I hate myself because

:44:40.:44:46.

# And I hate myself because # I'm just a sentimental fool

:44:46.:44:50.

love # Can't get to sleep 'cos I'm

:44:50.:44:53.

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