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On The Review Show tonight. Angry Boys, troubled men and a talking

:00:10.:00:19.

beaver! Mel Gibson attempt as comeback with

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help from a fluffy friend. Can a beaver rehabilitate Mad Max.

:00:26.:00:33.

are you? I'm the beaver. Huge excitement in a Russian small town

:00:33.:00:39.

when the Government inspector arrives. How do stars of TV comedy

:00:39.:00:44.

fare in Gogol's classic play. Get him to send over his next

:00:44.:00:49.

Bordeaux or I will break his fingers. The dead unburied in

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Andrew Miller's novel, set in prerevolutionary France. Does the

:00:54.:01:00.

stench of 18th century Paris leap off the page?

:01:00.:01:05.

Chris Lilley plays delinquent teen, racist grans, and even blacks up in

:01:05.:01:14.

his new mock can youmentry, Angry Boys - mockumentary, Angry Boys,

:01:14.:01:23.

funny or just over the top. Balls, ball, I have big blackballs. Live

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music from Jonathan Jeremiah. Joining me tonight are the

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independent columnist, Johann Hari, the novelist and President of

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English Pen, Gillian Slovo, the policy editor of the economist,

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Anne McElvoy, and broadcaster and academic, Susan Hitch. It is quite

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hard to imagine the pitch for this one, for a start the film will be

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starring Mel Gibson, never mind the drunken racist rants or claims of

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domestic abuse. The role itself, not an action hero, or comic part,

:02:01.:02:06.

but man suffering from depression. Get this, he decides the only way

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to talk to his family is via a hand puppet of a beaver. Do you want to

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get better. Who are you? I'm The Beaver Walter. Gibson plays Walter

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Black a chronically depressed toy executive who stands to lose his

:02:23.:02:30.

family if he doesn't make dramatic changes, he decides to communicate

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with the world through a beaver hand puppet. The Beaver is Jodie

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Foster's third directoral outing, she co-stars as Walter's long-

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suffering wife. It is painfully emotional film. That is the biggest

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surprise, that a movie can start out with such a high concept, and

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by mid-way through the film you are so invested in the characters and

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moved by them, you see your own small details and tapestrys of your

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life with your family through them. You completely forget that he has a

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puppet on his hand. The other troubled relationship is between

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Walter and his son Porter, a teenager worried he's turning into

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his father. This is a joke, right. No, son. It is a fresh start.

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you completely lost your mind. know it seems. I'm not talking to

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you nut job, I'm talking to mom. Could the role of Walter Black be a

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case of art imitating life. An acknowledgement of one of

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Hollywood's biggest stars of his dramatic fall from grace. Has

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Gibson now come to terms with his inner demons. It is one of the

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deepest performances Mel has ever again, and the most - given, and

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one of the most true he has given. That is lucky, it is an incredibly

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lucky skill to have the ability to look demons in the face, and say,

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you know, I'm going to do whatever it takes to kick you in the ass.

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Putting his personal controversy aside, is this the right vehicle to

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turn Gibson's career around. person who handed you this card is

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under the care of a prescription puppet. Designed to help create a

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psychological distance between himself and the negative aspects of

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his personality. Please treat him as you normally would, but address

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yourself to the puppet, thank you. One of the questions I would never

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have thought I would have asked on television, what do you think the

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point of The Beaver is? Goodness no, I think Jodie Foster thinks she

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does but doesn't really. On one level we are supposed to believe it

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is a prescription puppet, that turns out to be a lie. Afterall it

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is not a prescription puppet, is it a useful psychological tool

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nonetheless in which he's able to voice his inner thoughts in way he

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can't do directly? Or is it something that is actually taking

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him over, that is psychotic. I don't think the film has made up

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its mind, and I think there is a problem there. Did you think it was

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credible, Jodie Foster was saying after a few minutes you are

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completely absorbed and overtaken? The whole film work ones whether

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you believe in the existence of The Beaver. Five minutes of thinking I

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can't believe in it, five minutes of thinking maybe I can. The rest

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of the film thinking I would like to kill this beaver. I found it

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difficult to talk about, I almost cannot believe this film actually

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exists. You are sitting there watching it and you keep getting

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hit by waves of incredulity and that anyone has ever made this film.

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It is the plot of American Beauty, through the imagination of Fred

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West. You have a middle-aged man having a breakdown and unsufferably

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twee teenagers. The tone is so odd. At times it thinks it is a commondy

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or horror film or profound psychological drama. It is none of

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them. The animal he speaks through should be a turkey, this is such a

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disaster. Could it be that the idea of the beaver is man, male

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menopause, this is his masculinity, the only way to communicate is

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through the beaver which has a strong macho accent? A good try. It

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is the accent is Michael Cain meets something else, they are trying to

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externalise the depression and say all of this, the idea that the

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depression is internal or chemical it can be dealt with pro-Zach or

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getting a grip, you can't do that, I needs that is outside himself

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that will articulate what he feels. Therefore, it is not going to be

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him but everyone is going to have to accept it. The incredulity point

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is important, the reaction of the family is unbelievable, we have a

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Muppet boy who loves the beaver, have you ever tried to do anything

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weird around a child, they are the most conservative on the plan the.

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Then you have the cookie teenage thing, it is straight out of

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American Beauty, a real waste of Jennifer Lawrence and a good cast.

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There was one scene in the film that I really did think it was very

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good, it is when Mel Gibson and The Beaver are on television, he, The

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Beaver articulates in his mockney the philosophy behind it, it is a

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complete story of a man who is having a mid-life crisis and the

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justification of a middle-aged men everywhere for throwing his life

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away, I thought it had a lot of power, why did you need The Beaver?

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That is uncomfortably true, I don't believe in the premise, or Mel

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Gibson as the depressed man, he has the tense face, he doesn't have the

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slackness of somebody who is depressed. Yet I do believe in Mel

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Gibson as the angry middle-aged man, I didn't need to know the events

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going on in his events to believe that. I was queasy about this being

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a rescue vehicle, it is a rescue vehicle by Mel Gibson by taking on

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mental illness, they hope in some way to get him out of the career

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crisis he has worked himself into. It is not to do with mental illness

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but him. Was the performance a career rehabilitating one?

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because the film isn't. His performance is. I find the things

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Mel Gibson has done abhorrent, he's a great actor and film maker. If

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you look at The Passion Of The Christ, it is a disgusting film and

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extraordinary, and I think he's one of the most profound film makers of

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our time. I think he has something incredible. I was torn, part of me

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wants him to be rehabilitated, because I want to see his next film.

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This is not the vehicle to do it. It does show his acting talents.

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is an interesting question, how far can you distance an actor or artist

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from his politics and private life? Yes, but I don't think that the

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problem with this film is Mel Gibson's private life. I don't

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think that's what's get anything the way there. I think the problem

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with the film is, as Susan said, it just doesn't know what it is doing.

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It has some really worthy things and some really whacky things, they

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do not measure together. It is a very ambitious film, it is high

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concept, it has been Anne tell gent Jodie Foster, whose own performance

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was rather good It always it, there ising - it always is, there is a

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kind of intelligence, even when she's not on the screen, we can see

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her taking in stuff intelligently. It is the reaction shot that I like

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of her's. I do think the film is a mess. It hasn't made up its mind

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what it is. It drops into terrible sentimentality, the little boy and

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the older child who suddenly comes back together with his father.

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older son was interesting, isn't he a parallel to what's happening with

:10:04.:10:09.

his father, he's also acting like a ventriloquist in his life, because

:10:09.:10:13.

he's writing other people's essays and getting into their heads for a

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speech? They may as well have flashing on the bottom of the

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screen, "subtext", the recurring image of the son is him banging his

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head against the wall, which is how the audience feels by the time you

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get to that. The film doesn't let you get away from reminding you of

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Mel Gibson and has narrative. The beaver said a great obituary you

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have written for yourself. It is constantly drawing you back to

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Gibson the man. Isn't it interesting that the psychotic

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voice is Cockney! Let's be honest it was sometimes Cockney and

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sometimes Australian. Sort of English? It is interesting.

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The Beaver w its strange accent, opens across the UK next Friday.

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There may never have been a better time to see funny faces off the

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tele, treading the stages of London theatre, Catherine Tate is helping

:11:08.:11:11.

David Tennant, making Much Ado About Nothing, while James Corden

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is starring in The National in One Man, Two Guvnors. Meanwhile at the

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Young Vic, half of The Mighty Boosh, Jean-Baptiste Baratte, meets one

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third of - Julian Barratt, meets one third of Smack the Pony, in The

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Government Inspector which opened last night. With news of an

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imminent visit of a Government inspector to a small provincial

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Russian town, the local mayor and inhabitants are sent into a frenzy

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of social thought. Is he from there. Has he got a moustache. Is he very

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distinguished. Is he privvy or state councillor, or a cleejic

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councillor, is he a general? He's not a general.

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He has to be higher than a general. Written by Ukrainian-born novelist,

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Nikolai Gogol, in 1836, when Russia was struggling to compete

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economically with the rest of the world. The play uses the device of

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mistaken identity to expose the towns people's greed and corruption.

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News of the incognito visitor spreads fast. How young a boy?

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or so, young, very beyond his years, very travelled and worldly.

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Cultured, he loves to read books and scribble down his thoughts

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about the Stone Age, but his cave was too dark and Baltic, he seeks

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out prolonged exposure to the arts. Brown hair, black hair, long,

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feathered. When a fopish civil servant turns up and is Makin for

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the inspector he's enjoying the attentions of the towns people.

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lost my money on the road, could you lend me $300. Absolutely.

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don't like to deny myself, why should I. I won't trouble your

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excellencey any further. Do you have any thoughts about the postal

:13:23.:13:33.
:13:33.:13:34.

service? I will write to you. Taking her talent from the TV to

:13:34.:13:44.
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the stage are many stars. Adapted by the Scottish playwright David

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Harrower. This new version is as lively on stage as it is on the

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page. But has it managed to stay true to the original play.

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We have a real sense of the vivacity of the production there.

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How do you think it captures the spirit of the original Gogol?

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don't think it does, it rollicks along, very amusingly, you saw from

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the clip, it is a fantastic feat of getting people on and off the stage,

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the language is very cleverly adapted to modern English in the

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venacular. The problem is this is an angry play, written by Gogol as

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a young man, angry about the conditions in the provinces and the

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random nature of power from St Petersburg. This could be anywhere,

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it could be a bad day for David Brent at the Office, when

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management is checking up on his paper clip quota. This moral anger

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is central to Russian comedy, they have lost it here. Did they

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trivialise it? There is a sense of absurdity central to Russian comedy.

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With The Government Inspector you can produce two different plays out

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of it, one is that naturalistic, serious, funny, maybe, but deeply

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satirical and dark version. But you can also make out of it something

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that is farcical and really, really absurd. The moment you choose to go

:15:11.:15:15.

for Richard Jones as director you have gone for the absurd, he won't

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do anything else with it. What I liked about it, is it really

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reconsidered it properly and turned it all the way into a farce. It is

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a beautifuly constructed play, dramatic mechanism it has a perfect

:15:29.:15:32.

lock on it. So actually it is quite difficult to re-think it, even as

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farce. I thought they did it well. I'm a surprised you think that

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goes back to the stream of Gogol f you go back to the short story The

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Nose, about a bureaucrat whose nose runs away from him. This is like

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The Mighty Boosh t loses some of the political edge, I don't think

:15:54.:15:59.

that is something that Gogol disliked, he didn't like it when

:15:59.:16:04.

was done in a socially realist way, when he saw productions like that.

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My problem is with the basic production. It is really annoying

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that theatre producers keep putting TV actors without theatre

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experience and aren't that good at theatre, in the big roles where

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they have to carry a big vow. Julian Barratt cannot do t and it

:16:23.:16:26.

leaves a hole at the centre of the play.

:16:26.:16:32.

Did you feel the performances were as bad as that? I think there were

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wonderful performance, some of it was Amanda Lawrence Lawrence, she

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used her body in the most amazing way. I thought Julian Barratt felt

:16:41.:16:46.

uncomfortable on the stage, it improved as it went on. As long as

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he was talking it was all right. When I was listening he didn't know

:16:50.:16:53.

how to hold himself, that was the problem. Something about the play I

:16:53.:16:56.

found interesting, I have always thought of as the mayor as the one

:16:56.:17:00.

person in the town who has a kind of moral conscience, who does

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understand what's happening, and this production made him into a

:17:05.:17:10.

torturer, by the way it came to the end. I thought that took away a

:17:10.:17:16.

kind of a feel to Julian Barratt's performance, who has gone on record

:17:16.:17:19.

as saying we can't be too sympathetic to the mayor because

:17:19.:17:23.

then we won't laugh at him. I don't think so, I think we could have

:17:23.:17:28.

laughed at him and been sympathetic. I saw it the night after you,

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perhaps he improved enormously in the 24 hours. I found him awkward

:17:32.:17:36.

and uncomfortable in his skin. In way that when I saw it, contributed

:17:36.:17:41.

to the character. That this was a mayor who is uneasy any way with

:17:41.:17:45.

what he's doing so, when he has the stress dream, if it is a dream,

:17:45.:17:48.

when the terrible thing happens to him it is bringing out the fears he

:17:48.:17:53.

has any way. He's not very comfortable with himself. I know

:17:53.:18:00.

you like this bit better than I did, of course there is absurdity galore

:18:00.:18:05.

in Gogol, if you run it like that for the whole duration for the play,

:18:05.:18:10.

you make it hard for the mayor and the imposter, they have to keep

:18:10.:18:14.

going at the same pace and delivery for a long time. It is wearing, if

:18:14.:18:18.

you lose the seriousness, you lose that kind of variety. This is a

:18:18.:18:22.

play, which is so badly received, and is seen as so critical that

:18:22.:18:26.

Gogol is forced into exile. So, yes, there is the absurdity, yes it is

:18:26.:18:29.

meant to be farcical, and funny. But the seriousness of purpose, and

:18:29.:18:34.

everything that it says it part and parcel of the work. It is a play

:18:34.:18:40.

constantly revived, it speaks to something of our age at a time of

:18:40.:18:45.

MPs' expenses and corruption. Nabakov thought it was the worst

:18:45.:18:52.

play ever written t harsh on Chekov, it is a good translation by David

:18:52.:18:56.

Harrower. There are beautiful moments of pathos, I think it works

:18:56.:18:59.

best with them. When one of the people in the town just begs the

:18:59.:19:03.

person he thinks is the Government inspector, when he goes back to St

:19:03.:19:09.

Petersburg, to say in a town out in the stick there is a man called Bob

:19:09.:19:15.

Chinsky, he wants the officials to know he exists. Where it is

:19:15.:19:18.

prefiguring the Russian history to come worked well. They weren't too

:19:18.:19:23.

loaded. I thought the hints of it, it reminded me of the Dostoevksy

:19:23.:19:26.

novel The Devil, which anticipates so clearly the nightmare that is on

:19:26.:19:30.

its way. Before leaving it, we should talk about the way it is

:19:30.:19:34.

staged. Extraordinary design, and a joy to watch? It is gorgeous.

:19:34.:19:39.

Everything works, the sound, and the sight and the colours in it. I

:19:39.:19:45.

think, I also think we have to mention, Khlestakov, Kyle Soller,

:19:45.:19:50.

who was like a maniac imp, with more bounce than I have ever seen

:19:50.:19:54.

anybody on a stage. He was literally jumping on the ground, on

:19:54.:20:04.
:20:04.:20:05.

the sofas 0 - and on to bookshelves. And also from Do you know McKeekin?

:20:05.:20:12.

But it was also like thank Kyle Soller was like the death of

:20:12.:20:17.

Chaterton, he was the boy with red hair and instead of dying

:20:17.:20:22.

consumptionively, he was bouncing on sofas. Didn't he remind you of

:20:22.:20:32.
:20:32.:20:36.

Ange, doing these movements. It has been four years since the

:20:36.:20:41.

Australian comedian, Chris Lilley last appeared on screen in the

:20:42.:20:45.

critically acclaimed mockumentary, height height. This year he

:20:45.:20:52.

returned - Summer Heights High. This year he returned playing a

:20:52.:20:56.

eclectic collection of characters in Angry Boys. Comedy from the

:20:56.:21:00.

southern Hemisphere, has given us some much-loved characters, from

:21:00.:21:10.

Barry Humphreys Dame Edna, to Kath & Kim. Look and me Kim. Chris

:21:10.:21:13.

Lilley, stand-up comedian, added to this collection, with Summer

:21:13.:21:18.

Heights High, which ran on BBC Three in 2008. Lilley played a

:21:18.:21:22.

remarkable range of characters in an Australian High School.

:21:22.:21:28.

Including spoilt schoolgirl Jamie. Oh my God. And self-deillusional

:21:28.:21:35.

drama theatre Mr G. I just perform for the kids for a whole lesson, to

:21:35.:21:41.

give them a benchmark of how things are done. So they can see someone

:21:41.:21:44.

at a professional industry level, and how they handle the performance

:21:44.:21:49.

side of things. However, his latest series, Angry Boys, gives the

:21:49.:21:54.

mockumentary a more cutting edge. Featuring controversial characters

:21:54.:21:59.

like Gran, the less than PC prison guard. You are a light skin, I know

:21:59.:22:04.

you're an Aborigine, but a light skin. And twin delinquent, Danal

:22:04.:22:09.

and Nathan Sims, who first made an appearance in Lilley's debut series,

:22:09.:22:13.

We Can Be Heroes. He never wants to talk, he reckons if he does he

:22:13.:22:20.

sounds like a full Plastic, and he reckons we always laugh at him, and

:22:20.:22:29.

we do. Hey Nae, say "my name is Nathan and I'm a big deaf spas".

:22:29.:22:35.

Danal is a big deaf spas. This premiered in Australia last

:22:35.:22:40.

month to rave reviews and high ratings. Viewing figures for later

:22:40.:22:46.

episodes have declined. As Lilley's humour takes ever darker turns, has

:22:46.:22:52.

he pushed the boundaries of the mockumentary. # Balls, balls

:22:52.:22:56.

# I got big Blackballs

:22:56.:23:03.

# Let me show you Very much Chris Lilley's work,

:23:03.:23:07.

playing all these characters, writing, producing, co-directing,

:23:07.:23:11.

it shows great versatility in this, I suppose. There are really three

:23:11.:23:16.

masters of this mockumentary style, or this new form of sitcom, Ricky

:23:16.:23:20.

Gervais, Larry David and Chris Lilley. It is a strange thing where

:23:20.:23:24.

it is both comedy of extreme social awkwardness, tinged with real

:23:24.:23:28.

sadness. It take as while to set those things up. If you watch the

:23:28.:23:32.

first episodes of any of their shows it take as while to get going.

:23:32.:23:37.

For those new to it, it would seem odd. Summer Heights High is one of

:23:37.:23:41.

the best comedies of the past ten years. He hasn't done what Ricky

:23:41.:23:46.

Gervais did after The Office, he's gone for more of the same thing. It

:23:46.:23:50.

feels odd, but will grow into something great. Did you admire the

:23:50.:23:54.

technical skill in this I admire the technical skill but I hated it.

:23:54.:23:59.

Maybe I'm not the person for mockumentary. I didn't enjoy it at

:23:59.:24:03.

all. There is a very basic problem of imitation here. If you imitate

:24:03.:24:09.

people who are bored, most of the time, boring, racist, offensive,

:24:10.:24:17.

the problem in the end is not that they are racist and offensive, that

:24:17.:24:22.

is contextualised, you can read that sat teirically, sometimes I

:24:22.:24:26.

wonder - satirically, sometimes I wonder why, I'm bored. I would go

:24:26.:24:30.

between the two, I thought it did get better. The second episode felt

:24:30.:24:34.

much more alive to me than the first episode. Did it make me laugh.

:24:34.:24:39.

It is not exactly my thing. I laughed actually, the less PC it

:24:39.:24:43.

was, the funnier I found it, but I didn't even find it that funny. I

:24:43.:24:50.

like the character of Gran, in way. Gran is the racist prison guard, we

:24:50.:24:56.

saw there dividing the young boys into dark and light skined? And who

:24:56.:25:02.

keeps guinea pigs and has a game with the boy goch cha, where she

:25:02.:25:09.

tells one of them he's about to be released and then says gotcha. That

:25:09.:25:18.

turned dark for me and I liked S Mouse. He said, I'm really radical

:25:18.:25:24.

because I have puct situation, in the middle of - puct situation in

:25:24.:25:30.

the middle of my name. In the second episode with S. Mousse, I

:25:30.:25:40.
:25:40.:25:42.

thought was funny. It worked - S Mouse.

:25:42.:25:46.

It was very, very funny, and it also took that apart. I thought

:25:46.:25:50.

that worked very well. You saw then the effect that it had back on the

:25:50.:25:56.

hopeless crowd back in Oz. On the anti-PC point, I think one should

:25:56.:26:00.

say it is fairly broad stuff. very BBC Three, you have to have

:26:00.:26:03.

just come in from the pub to watch it. That is probably what most of

:26:03.:26:07.

the audience will have done. I thought it got less funny when they

:26:07.:26:11.

repeated these very anti-PC joke, whether they were about race or

:26:11.:26:14.

masturbation, or body parts. Because the first time you go, oh,

:26:14.:26:18.

they said, that the second time it is like they said that before. Why

:26:18.:26:24.

do I have to be amused another time. Is there a risk with some of the

:26:24.:26:27.

anti-PC jokes, whether they are racist or joke about the deaf twin,

:26:27.:26:33.

that so. Audience will be thinking that is fatastically ironic, others

:26:33.:26:37.

will think that is very funny because he said the word "spas".

:26:37.:26:41.

The crucial question is who is the joke on, it is never on the deaf

:26:41.:26:45.

brother, it is the idiot brother laughing at him. That is the strain

:26:45.:26:49.

going through comdee. You can't judge comedy by the reaction of the

:26:49.:26:54.

stupidist members of the audience, if you think about Alf Garnett

:26:54.:26:58.

people always misunderstood the characters. If you compare it to

:26:58.:27:02.

Jim Davidson, blacking up, or little Britain, where the joke is

:27:02.:27:06.

on the weaker character, that is not the case here. You would have

:27:06.:27:12.

to be really quite dumb to misread this as laughing at the deaf person,

:27:12.:27:16.

that never happens. Part of my objection to it is the sense of

:27:16.:27:20.

waste. When you see Chris Lilley acting, really acting as Gran, for

:27:20.:27:25.

example, you Israel yois that Chris Lilley is, I think, possibly -

:27:25.:27:32.

realise that Chris Lilley is, I think, possibly the best actor we

:27:32.:27:39.

have seen tonight. Better than the puppet! Better than Mel Gibson and

:27:39.:27:43.

Jodie Foster, he's a real shape shifter actor and needs better

:27:43.:27:46.

material. What about the Australian working-class, here we have had a

:27:46.:27:50.

big debate about chavs the demonisation of the working-class a

:27:50.:27:56.

new book out what do you make that have? If you were watching this in

:27:56.:27:59.

Australia, there might be an why theity with the cull tue, and you

:27:59.:28:09.

may join in - Identifying with the culture, we may join in watching it.

:28:09.:28:14.

We're watching it from here, but here from here the joke is on the

:28:14.:28:17.

working-class Australians. That is profoundly wrong f you look all the

:28:17.:28:20.

way through Chris Lilley, the joke in Summer Heights High, there is a

:28:20.:28:26.

rich girl the joke is on, and an incredibly sympathetically

:28:26.:28:30.

portrayed poor kid. It would be patronising to exempt one

:28:30.:28:34.

particular group of people from his school of mockery. I think it is

:28:34.:28:42.

true, if you look at S. Mouse, is he's a rapper who is pretending to

:28:42.:28:46.

be street, smack your elbow, and his father is on there saying, look

:28:46.:28:50.

at our house, we are rich. He comes from the middle-classes. I thought

:28:50.:28:54.

that worked wonderfully well. I thought that the working-class

:28:54.:28:59.

characters were less successful for me, because I really felt too

:28:59.:29:02.

uncomfortable with those twins. I felt it was quite repetitive. It

:29:02.:29:06.

didn't seem to move on. In that way, I don't think it worked for them.

:29:06.:29:10.

What do you think about the grenre of mockumentary, we have seen so

:29:10.:29:16.

many now over the years, is it reaching the end of its time?

:29:16.:29:21.

wonder, if we still made the time capsules, if they did one now it

:29:21.:29:31.

would be full of mockumentary. They would thinking S. Mouse we have to

:29:31.:29:35.

look him up. Chris Lilley is new to me. Lots said, lots of flaws and

:29:35.:29:39.

icky bits, but it is really good. Even if it is the last one on the

:29:39.:29:44.

planet, I'm sticking with it. is another chance to see the first

:29:44.:29:47.

two episodes of Angry Boys on BBC Three, later tonight in fact. And

:29:47.:29:51.

the next two episodes premier on Tuesday.

:29:51.:29:56.

Andrew Miller is one of those authors who seemed to relish an

:29:56.:29:59.

historical challenge, his first two novel, Ingenious Pain and Casanova,

:29:59.:30:04.

are both set in the 18th century. The most recent money, Morning

:30:04.:30:08.

Glory, takes place in Japan on the - One Morning Like A Bird, takes

:30:08.:30:13.

place in Japan. For book number six, Pure, he returns to the 18th

:30:13.:30:20.

century to set a story in prerevolutionary Paris.

:30:20.:30:25.

"my Lord, I have made an initial examination of both the church and

:30:25.:30:30.

the cemetery, and see no reason to delay the work your Lordship has

:30:30.:30:36.

entrusted to me. It will be necessary to recruit at least 30

:30:36.:30:42.

able bodied men for the cemetery. It is a book set in Paris a few

:30:42.:30:48.

years before the revolution. It concerns a cemetery in the centre

:30:48.:30:53.

of par bri, the mid-18th century was poisoning the entire

:30:53.:30:57.

neighbourhood, and indeed that side of the city.

:30:57.:31:01.

So my novel, my story is about a young engineer, who comes from the

:31:01.:31:05.

provinces, sets about the destruction of the cemetery, and

:31:05.:31:15.
:31:15.:31:25.

the church. He is, in a sense, The revolution is very much present

:31:25.:31:30.

in the wings of the book. This is a city before the storm. In its last

:31:30.:31:37.

moments of a way of life that was coming soon to an end. Black

:31:37.:31:43.

letters on the cemetery wall, tall, ragged, unignoreable letters

:31:43.:31:48.

extending from the cemetery door. Fat kings, slut Queen, beware,

:31:48.:31:56.

Beche is digging a hole big enough to bury all Versailles. Set in mid-

:31:56.:32:02.

18th century, and I say there is much that a reader can connect with.

:32:02.:32:07.

It is a time of, I don't know, banks and tourism and police, and

:32:07.:32:13.

police force, and hotels and postal services and whatever. It is the

:32:13.:32:19.

beginnings of a polite society, beginnings of new ideas about how

:32:19.:32:29.
:32:29.:32:40.

we might be, what a society should "a year of rape, suicide, sudden

:32:40.:32:48.

death, of friendship too, of love. So Gillian, starting point for this

:32:48.:32:53.

is an extraordinary real life event, the excavation of a cemetery. The

:32:53.:32:57.

whole book is infused, in way, with decay? It is, and it is also

:32:57.:33:00.

infused with the period where it is. Andrew Miller is very good at

:33:01.:33:05.

evoking the period, and making you feel that you are inhabiting it,

:33:05.:33:09.

and the stink of it. And the world of it. But I did, I have to say, I

:33:09.:33:12.

thought there was something slightly odd about this book, in

:33:12.:33:16.

the sense that, at the same time as I thought it was extremely well

:33:16.:33:21.

written, and there are wonderful scenes in it, I also thought,

:33:21.:33:26.

reading it in the weak way, talking about women's writing has a

:33:26.:33:30.

sentimental sense of society, I actually thought this book had a

:33:30.:33:33.

sentimental sense of society. And part of the reason I thought that

:33:33.:33:41.

was the women characters. That, you know, apart from the crazy ziinggit,

:33:41.:33:45.

who was my favourite character, the daughter of the landlord that this

:33:45.:33:49.

engineer is staying with, and who acts in way that nobody understands.

:33:49.:33:53.

There was theer who with the heart of gold, there was the - the whore

:33:53.:33:57.

with the heart of gold, there was the young girl who looks after her

:33:57.:34:03.

grandfather and everybody else. And the landitey who looks after the -

:34:03.:34:08.

landlady who looks after the artist. Did you think the women characters

:34:08.:34:11.

were stereotypical? Some where, but actually I had more time for them

:34:11.:34:15.

than you did. Partly because I think a lot of this book is about

:34:15.:34:19.

what you can do with rationality and what you can't do with

:34:19.:34:24.

rationality. And yes, it's gender divided, but we have the engineer

:34:24.:34:29.

as the very spokesperson of the active person of an 18th century

:34:29.:34:32.

rationality that works. It is one of the interesting things about

:34:32.:34:35.

this novel, it is one of those rare novels which is about work and

:34:35.:34:40.

about effective work, all these things happen, rape, murder mayhem,

:34:40.:34:45.

you name it, but the cemetery gets cleared. The women don't speak, but

:34:45.:34:49.

they have a presence that is very important to the balance. This idea

:34:49.:34:53.

runs right through the book, the contrast between rationality, the

:34:53.:34:57.

ideas of the enlightenment, and religion, the church, mad priests

:34:57.:35:03.

lurking in the background? It is murder, mayhem and metaphysics, one

:35:03.:35:08.

thing I really liked about the book, is he takes the novel of ideas

:35:08.:35:12.

seriously. You never feel that someone is acting or speaking in

:35:12.:35:15.

way only to be there for rationalism. What is so great about

:35:15.:35:20.

the story is he starts out as the engineer, the rational man, as he

:35:20.:35:23.

digs down into the bones, and there is the past and religiosity comes

:35:24.:35:28.

back at him, and comes back at his whole ideals. In the end his

:35:28.:35:33.

identity is unwound, he cannot really relate his rationalism to

:35:33.:35:37.

what he has been doing, he's hyperrational thinking it doesn't

:35:37.:35:41.

matter. Digging up a few bones at the beginning of the story, what

:35:41.:35:46.

could go so wrong, it all goes so wrong, it is incredibly cleverly

:35:46.:35:51.

controlled, very touching. This whole idea of being pure,

:35:51.:35:56.

maintaining a moral position in the mid of this decay shows to be

:35:56.:36:03.

impossible? He has done something startling impressive, he has taken

:36:03.:36:09.

a historical event, and made it intellectually and emotionally

:36:09.:36:14.

alive, by using this metaphor that prefigures the revolution. We

:36:14.:36:20.

talked about the revolution talking about the democracy of the dead.

:36:20.:36:23.

Clearing out a graveyard is brilliant metaphor for that. He

:36:23.:36:28.

take it is and makes it so vivid, he doesn't patronise the past or

:36:28.:36:32.

make you feel a moment when he's displaying his research, you never

:36:32.:36:36.

feel a moment when the characters become sieveers for the ytdz, even

:36:36.:36:42.

- siefers for the ideas, and it is a brilliant novel. You have a sense

:36:42.:36:45.

of the impending French Revolution and there are various moments in

:36:45.:36:49.

the book, the action of the miners and you get a sense of the tumult

:36:49.:36:54.

going to be unleashed? You get it from the graffiti coming up around

:36:54.:37:00.

the city, and through the strangeness of the miners who don't

:37:00.:37:04.

even speak the same language, stuck in the graveyard doggedly digging

:37:04.:37:09.

up bones. You have the feeling that something is about to blow. I was

:37:09.:37:14.

sorry that something didn't blow a little more and sooner in the book

:37:14.:37:19.

for me. I sometimes felt that it had quite a lilting rhythm, which I

:37:19.:37:24.

admired, I wanted a bit more disruption at some point. I liked

:37:24.:37:29.

the excavation, that we worked our way through it. Pure by Andrew

:37:29.:37:34.

Miller was published this week. Once again, our own angry boy, Will

:37:34.:37:38.

Gompertz, has about out and about on our behalf. After Venice last

:37:38.:37:44.

week, he stayed closer to home for a look at what to expect from the

:37:44.:37:47.

London 2012, Cultural Olympiad, which you haven't noticed has been

:37:47.:37:54.

running for three years already. So, just 413 days until the 2012

:37:54.:37:58.

Olympics, which, of course, is jolly exciting. But perhaps not as

:37:58.:38:02.

exciting as the last three years of the British Cultural Olympiad, we

:38:02.:38:08.

have been really enjoying that, haven't we? Haven't we?

:38:08.:38:13.

Cultural Olympiad? I don't know. Ifrpblgt I don't know what is the

:38:13.:38:18.

Cultural Olympiad. What does this man think of the Cultural Olympiad?

:38:18.:38:22.

The Cultural Olympiad. What is that? I don't think I have heard of

:38:22.:38:24.

the Cultural Olympiad. What do you mean?

:38:25.:38:29.

OK, so awareness of the Cultural Olympiad is clearly pretty low. The

:38:29.:38:37.

arts have always been part of the modern Olympics, up until the early

:38:37.:38:42.

19th century there were medals handed out for painting. We had an

:38:42.:38:48.

arts competition' V & A. This time we thought we would go large, and

:38:48.:38:53.

spent �18 million on a four-year cultural Olympiad. It is fair to

:38:53.:38:57.

say we have established the first three years of the four-year

:38:57.:39:01.

Cultural Olympiad, and it has failed to capture the public

:39:01.:39:06.

imagination. The organisers have a new plan to do a new festival on

:39:06.:39:12.

June 21st, which they say will be the UK's biggest-ever festival. To

:39:12.:39:14.

celebrate the finale of the Cultural Olympiad. I think we are

:39:14.:39:19.

talking about the Festival of Britain here. It means there will

:39:19.:39:26.

be a royal Shakespeare festival, and a Pinobaust season, fantastic.

:39:26.:39:29.

It looks good, what about my new found friends at the national

:39:29.:39:35.

gallery what do they want? Justin Bieber, marry me!

:39:35.:39:41.

Fish and chips, I like fish and chips. A few famous faces.

:39:41.:39:47.

Different bands, classical music as well as pop and rock. Tribunal

:39:47.:39:53.

music, or just mud tribal music, not just mainstream. Clint Eastwood

:39:53.:40:03.

or John Wayne. I definitely fancy Robbie Williams. Robbie Williams.

:40:03.:40:07.

As an American I don't know about British writers. Shakespeare.

:40:07.:40:14.

Modern art or anything like that. That painter, the guy he painted

:40:14.:40:24.
:40:24.:40:30.

the ceiling. A space simulator. Michael anglo-. He's dead!

:40:30.:40:35.

Who do you pick for the Olympiad? At a time when arts organisations

:40:35.:40:40.

are being cut, they should have put it in the pot so organisations

:40:40.:40:44.

doing great work didn't close. idea is to get things out of London

:40:44.:40:48.

and around the country, it is great idea. London theatre is in

:40:48.:40:53.

fantastic phase, lots of good writing, fantastic writers, I hope

:40:54.:40:56.

they get some on the road and get them out.

:40:56.:41:01.

Well, that's almost all for tonight. Remember you can catch up with all

:41:01.:41:04.

things review on the website. And the team here are primed and ready

:41:04.:41:11.

for The Tweets. My thanks to Gillian and Susan, and Anne and

:41:11.:41:17.

Johann, and the latest addition to our film, The Beaver. Most obedient

:41:17.:41:23.

of our panel. Suzy Klein will be here with highlights of the

:41:23.:41:25.

Edinburgh International Film Festival. We end with music from

:41:25.:41:29.

Jonathan Jeremiah, his new single, Heart of Stone.

:41:29.:41:36.

# I've been feeling # Like you messed me around

:41:36.:41:44.

# I've been hurting # But there's no way out

:41:44.:41:50.

# I've been hurting # But there's no way out

:41:50.:41:54.

# If' been reeling # I've been reeling since the day

:41:54.:41:56.

you left # Now I'm wandering

:41:56.:42:02.

# I'm wandering # I say I'm wondering how

:42:02.:42:06.

# You've no regrets # I've been wondering how

:42:06.:42:15.

# You've no regrets # You got a heart of stone

:42:15.:42:18.

# You got a heart that feels so cold

:42:18.:42:25.

# But I'm not letting go # I'm just letting you know

:42:25.:42:35.
:42:35.:42:37.

# You got a heart of stone # I've been thinking

:42:37.:42:43.

# I've been thinking since you put me down

:42:43.:42:46.

# I've been better # I'll be better

:42:46.:42:50.

# I'll be so much better # Off without

:42:50.:42:53.

# I'll be better # Better

:42:53.:42:57.

# Off without # I'll be better better

:42:57.:42:59.

# Off without # Oh yeah

:42:59.:43:06.

# You got a heart of stone # You got a heart that feels so

:43:06.:43:10.

cold # I'm not letting go

:43:10.:43:20.
:43:20.:43:37.

# I'm just letting you know # You got a heart of stone

:43:37.:43:40.

# You got a heart that feels so cold

:43:40.:43:48.

# I'm not letting go # I'm just letting you know

:43:48.:43:57.

# You got a heart of stone # You got a heart that feels so

:43:57.:43:59.

cold # I'm not letting go

:43:59.:44:04.

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