House Fire Don't Get Done Get Dom


House Fire

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I've been fighting your consumer battles for years,

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but it seems some companies are still not getting the message.

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It seems to be the biggest companies not looking after their customers.

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Day in, day out, thousands of you are still being taken for a ride.

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And it's always the same old things - shoddy products, bad customer service and the dreaded small print.

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The customer service level is the most important thing to some people.

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Some firms are driving you barmy, causing you sleepless nights

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and can make you feel like you're the ones to blame.

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But don't despair, because I'll take them on, to make sure you don't get done.

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Home insurance - an essential way to make sure you and your family

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are protected financially if a disaster should strike.

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But just because you have a policy and an insurance company is taking your money each month,

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it doesn't necessarily mean you're covered.

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'And sadly that's exactly what happened to Tina Hunwick,

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'and in the most devastating way.

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'In 2012, her family home was gutted by fire

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'and when she tried to make a claim for the damage, her insurers refused it.

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'It all began in the early hours of a March morning.'

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I was woken about ten past five in the morning, a smell of burning..

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Erm, and the bedroom alight, bright orange,...

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'I just screamed out to everybody, run down the stairs.'

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'With everyone safely out of the house, now engulfed in flames,

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'the fire brigade was called and the blaze was quickly brought under control.

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'But for Tina, it was still heartbreaking.'

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You just think your whole life has just gone up in smoke and flames.

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'Tina and her family may have sadly lost most of their personal possessions,

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'but she thought she could slowly rebuild her life

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'with a quick call to her insurance company, Paymentshield.

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'However, they told her that, even though she had paid her premiums,

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'she wasn't covered, because she had had a previous policy voided.

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'Nightmare!'

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Having a fire in your own home is probably one of the scariest things that could ever happen.

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Trust me, I know. It happened to me 20-odd years ago.

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But to find out your insurance company won't pay out? Tell you what, comes a close second.

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'I've come to see Tina at the temporary property she's had to rent ever since the disaster.

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'From my experience, there's no smoke without fire.

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'I want to get to the bottom of what happened and see if I can help.'

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-Pleased to meet you. Horrible weather!

-Awful. Come in.

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I hope you've got the heating on.

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-If I said your life's in a pickle, that's an understatement.

-Definitely.

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-So, back to basics. Did you have buildings AND contents insurance?

-Yeah.

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Any reason why they're not paying out?

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They said I never admitted to a previous voided insurance, which I did.

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'Tina's problems go back to a previous policy,

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'also through Paymentshield insurance company,

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'and underwritten by Royal and Sun Alliance.

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'When Tina took out this policy, she had accidentally forgotten to disclose a previous claim,

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'and when this came to light, Royal and Sun Alliance told Tina they were cancelling her policy

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'and wouldn't reinsure her.'

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Because I hadn't disclosed two previous claims from my previous insurance company.

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I hadn't disclosed because I'd completely forgot about it,

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so I said, "Fair enough, I'm in the wrong."

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'Being the responsible and caring parent she is,

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'Tina wanted to make sure the family home stayed protected from disaster,

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'and secure for herself and her three children, as it holds many happy memories.'

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We moved in about 16 years ago,

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so for Summer and Heaven, it's the only home they've ever known.

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In fact, Heaven was actually born at home.

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'So with her home insurance now void, Tina desperately needed cover

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'and called an insurance broker, Lifestyle Protect,

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'to see if they could find her a new policy.'

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When I phoned the broker, the first thing I said to them is,

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"I need new house insurance. I've just had my policy voided by an insurance company."

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'Within a couple of days, the broker found Tina a new home insurance policy,

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'also with Paymentshield - the same company she was insured with before.

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'What Tina hadn't spotted was that her new policy was underwritten by Royal and Sun Alliance,

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'the same company who had said they would never insure her again.

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'Unaware, Tina just felt relieved that everything was covered.'

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I would live in that house till the day I die,

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and Heaven being born in the house makes it extra special.

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So I just want to live there for ever.

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-Did you not realise you were with the same company that had previously voided you?

-No.

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-You just paid the broker, took the documents, didn't read them.

-Yeah.

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-How do you feel about that?

-You just think, brokers, big companies like that...

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They've got databases, they KNOW who they've got insurance with,

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if they have voidance, if they paid out a claim...

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They KNOW all that information. I told her that information.

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So that insurance company probably wouldn't insure me.

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She said, "There's plenty of other companies that will insure you." I didn't give it a thought.

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-When you took out the insurance, did you go into a broker? Or on the phone?

-I done it on the phone.

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So, presumably, they asked you a whole load of questions, you said yes, no, or maybe...

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-Have you asked for a copy of that call?

-I have.

-Did you get one?

-No.

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-They didn't send a transcript?

-They can't find it.

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How much do they reckon it'll cost to put right?

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Um, between 50,000 and 100,000.

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Right. Fortune, isn't it?

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So they've said, "We're not going to pay for that."

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-What about your accommodation? Are they paying for that?

-No.

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-So you're paying rent...

-And a mortgage.

-Ouch.

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-How much is that a month?

-Between 1,600 and 2,000.

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-That must be a hell of a struggle.

-Mm.

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What have you done, since the insurance company said no,

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to try and get this situation sorted out?

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I've wrote to four of their top people, one being their chief executive.

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I've spoken to a solicitor. I've wrote formal letters of complaint,

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to try and follow their procedure.

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And then I contacted the Financial Ombudsman Service.

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'And her case continues to be investigated.

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'But Tina isn't feeling that optimistic and has turned to me in desperation.'

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-Can you afford to fix the house without the insurance?

-Definitely not.

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If I can't sort this out, what will you end up doing?

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No idea.

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Crikey.

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I don't know what to say.

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-Could life be any worse at the moment?

-Not really, no.

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Tina's situation couldn't be any worse. Her family's living in rented accommodation,

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her house burnt down, insurance company aren't paying out.

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She's tried everything to sort it out and she's failed.

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Talk about pressure on me!

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'I've got a feeling I've got my work cut out,

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'as I've got three companies to talk to on this fact-finding mission.

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'There's Lifestyle Protect, the broker Tina asked to find her a new buildings and contents policy.

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'Paymentshield is the insurance company who is the middle man between broker Lifestyle Protect

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'and the underwriter of the insurance policy, Royal and Sun Alliance.

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'My challenge is to get to the bottom of who of those is at fault.

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'I'm going to start with the broker, Lifestyle Protect,

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'because that's the company Tina asked to find her a new insurance policy,

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'after explaining that her last policy had been voided.

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'Tina has been trying to get a copy of that initial call,

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'but so far, no success, so I'll see if I can get any further.

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'But before I make contact, I want to get my head around who they are.

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'From my research into Lifestyle Protect,

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'I found out it's a trade name of another company - All Debt Solutions Ltd.

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'They handle PPI reclaims, money management and debt collection.

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'It's time to get hold of someone at Lifestyle Protect.

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'They told Tina they have no recording of her call.

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'But do they even record calls?'

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-RECORDING:

-'Please hold. Your call is important to us.

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-'Please note that all calls are recorded for monitoring and training purposes.'

-Bingo!

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'That's odd. They say all calls ARE recorded,

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'but they told Tina they don't have a copy of her phone call.'

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'..option one for customer services. This will enable us to access your account efficiently.

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-'Our group currently process up to 3,500 claims per week...'

-Gordon Bennett!

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'At this rate, I'll never get through to anyone to even ask the question!'

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Two minutes this has been going on.

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-RINGING TONE

-About time!

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RINGING TONE

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'Great. Sounds like I'm finally going to get to talk to someone.'

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Three minutes!

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-RECORDING:

-'Thank you for calling. All our operators are handling calls.

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'Please leave a message with your reference number, name and telephone number,

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'with a brief description of your enquiry,

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'and we will endeavour to return the call within 24-48 working hours.'

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-RECORDING:

-'Please leave your message after the tone.'

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Hello. My name is Dominic Littlewood, calling for the BBC.

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'I leave a message requesting that someone calls me back.'

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Thanks very much. Bye-bye.

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Four minutes 20 seconds to leave a voicemail.

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This is a big company. They should have people answering the phone.

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I don't like the way this is going already. I'm very rarely wrong.

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I thought I was wrong once, but I made a mistake.

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'I'm keen to talk to Lifestyle Protect,

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'the brokers who organised Tina's insurance.

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'I've yet to speak to anybody but I've had an email reply.

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'So I'm going to try to talk to the person named in that email.'

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-RECORDING:

-'Please note that in-depth...'

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This is exactly the same. Load of palaver for three minutes

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before they say, "All lines are busy, please leave a message."

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That's not how companies should run.

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'So I hit redial and try again.'

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Good morning. I'm having problems with your phone system.

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Keeps going to a voicemail message. Could you give me a direct dial number for him, please?

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'She says all she has is the number she put me through to.'

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I've got that number and you always end up leaving a message.

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Do you have an email address?

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'There is a generic email for the company,

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'but she doesn't have any direct dial extensions on reception.'

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Do you have a supervisor, manager, or anybody in charge there?

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'She says she'll put me through to someone's mobile.'

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Who would that be?

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'There are several numbers to try, but she won't give them to me as they are personal mobiles.'

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Who are you trying first?

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'Again, she withholds the name.'

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You can't get through to the manager, person in charge.

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You can't get an email address. She'll try people's mobiles - won't give me their name or number.

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'Finally, she says she has spoken to the Operations Manager

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'and I have to send an email or letter to the directors.'

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Why is everybody being so secretive and unhelpful? I just need to tell somebody about a programme.

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'She just repeats that I need to send an email.'

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It would be prudent for one of your directors to chat with me.

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I only need to ask him a few questions.

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'It's proving difficult to speak to anybody, but a few days later, I finally get some answers.

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'A firm, who handles Lifestyle Protect's complaints, emails me

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'to tell me Lifestyle Protect do not have a recording of Tina's call,

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'as they only record outbound calls and Tina's was inbound.

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'A shame, but at least we know and we can move on.'

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Every day, insurance companies are paying out £9 million to homeowners in claims.

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However, there is a flip side.

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Thousands of people are left high and dry when insurance companies refuse to pay out.

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'In 2011, the Financial Ombudsman dealt with well over 25,000 insurance complaints.

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'About a quarter of those were surrounding non-disclosure.

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'But what exactly is non-disclosure

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'and how can we consumers ensure

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'we tell the broker or insurance company all they need to know,

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'so we don't get caught out?

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'One man who knows a thing or two about this is David Cresswell, from the Financial Ombudsman Service.'

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Non-disclosure means you haven't told the insurance company something

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that THEY think is very important indeed.

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It's often very difficult for consumers to know

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what it is that the insurance might need to know.

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That's why we say it's the responsibility of the insurance company

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to ask questions and to ask really clear questions.

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Then it's your responsibility, as the consumer,

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to try your hardest to answer those questions as honestly as you can.

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'OK, but what if you make an honest mistake and simply forget to mention a previous claim,

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'as Tina did with the Royal and Sun Alliance,

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'and the insurance company void your policy?'

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If an insurance company tells you it's going to void your policy,

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and you think this is completely unfair, because you believe you were as honest as you could be,

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you can formally complain to the company.

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If that doesn't solve the problem, that's exactly the kind of situation the Ombudsman is here to help.

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'So what's the best way of protecting yourself?'

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Whether you deal directly with the insurance company or go through someone else,

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it's still important to keep copies

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of anything you gave to the insurance company,

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or gave FOR the insurance company.

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Keep hold of that and have a record of it.

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'I may well have shed a bit of light on the complicated and confusing world of insurance,

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'but for Tina, she's going home to calculate the true cost

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'of getting her life back together,

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'if she ever can.'

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I've come today because I need to go round each room,

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and make a list of all the things lost and damaged in the fire,

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that obviously need replacing.

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'Knowing what you've got in your home will ensure you get the right amount of contents insurance

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'and help you if you ever need to make a claim.

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'Write a list by walking round your home, listing everything you own.

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'Remember to include all rooms,

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'and don't forget the cupboard under the stairs, or loft or garage,

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'which could store valuable content.'

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This room obviously was the children's room.

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You can just see the damage in the roof.

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Obviously, the whole ceiling's come down because this is where the water tank had burst.

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Their bedroom was in a total mess.

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Then all the insulation just ruined everything.

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It affected the girls greatly. Summer gets upset a lot.

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Heaven lashes out a lot.

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Lately, they've both been lashing out and getting upset.

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It's just devastating, all of it. Just turns your stomach.

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Nasty.

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'Sadly, Tina's inventory won't be much help unless we get a result on this case.

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'My next call is to Tina's insurance company, Paymentshield.

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'Given their underwriters Royal and Sun Alliance had previously cancelled one of Tina's policies,

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'I want to know how Paymentshield ended up reinsuring her.'

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'Hello. It's Claire from the PR team for Paymentshield.'

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Hello, Claire.

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I believe Lifestyle Money, according to Tina Hunwick,

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was informed at the start of the phone call about the information you say was omitted -

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that there was a policy voided.

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She claims it was one of the first things she said.

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-'OK.'

-We would like a copy of that phone conversation.

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Their voicemail system does indicate that all calls are kept and recorded

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Now, we have requested that,

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but Lifestyle Money aren't even speaking to us on the phone past the reception.

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We can't get to speak to any of the directors,

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we get an automated response to emails, promising to resolve things.

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Unfortunately, they're letting us down.

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If you wouldn't mind, could you request a copy of that conversation,

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-because if Tina's...

-'I can certainly try for you.'

-OK.

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Claire, there's an another issue.

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-Tina says her previous policy that was voided was with your company.

-'That's right.'

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If it was voided, how on earth could you reinsure her?

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'Um, my understanding is that it wasn't until the point that the claim was made,

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'that it was then brought to their attention that she had had a previous policy.'

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As far as she knew, she was insured with you guys for seven months

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before the house burnt down.

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Surely to God you guys should have realised that,

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prior to seven months passing and a fire happening.

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You had voided her previous policy, yet you reinsured her.

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'It was brought to our attention at the point the claim had been made,

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'which is when it was brought to our attention she had had a previous policy.'

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So why didn't your system flag up the fact that this was somebody you didn't want to insure?

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'I can't comment in terms of how the system actually works.'

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'I'm not going to make any headway here.

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'I'm still struggling to get any of the facts in Tina's case.'

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'As I say, I'm going to get more information for you.'

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-Thanks very much.

-'Thank you. Take care. Bye-bye.'

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I've got a feeling, when it goes back to Paymentshield, they'll say,

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"He's got a damn good point.

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"Why was she insured for months when she shouldn't have been?"

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Their system has let them down

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and that might be the kink in their armour I need to get this sorted.

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'Lifestyle Protect say they don't have a recording of Tina's call,

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'and Paymentshield, the insurers, say they only discovered the problem when Tina made a claim.

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'I've also emailed Royal and Sun Alliance to see what they had to say

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'and I've now received this email with a joint statement,

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'from Royal and Sun Alliance and Paymentshield.

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'They say...'

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'The thing that really frustrates me

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'is that, in the modern world of interconnected computer systems,

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'Tina's situation shouldn't happen.

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'Surely there is a way of cross-checking insurance histories,

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'so a company doesn't cover someone they've previously refused.

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'One system that could help is the Claims Underwriting Exchange, or CUE, for short.

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'It's a database of everyone's previous claims.

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'I'm meeting Malcolm Tarling, from the Association of British Insurers,

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'to find out about CUE, and how it's used.'

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I know you're familiar with the problems that the lady I'm trying to help has had.

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Some areas need addressing, and one is the CUE system. Can you explain how it works?

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CUE stands for Claims and Underwriting Exchange.

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It's a central database storing information about

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the previous claims history of policy holders.

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Insurance companies can access this

0:20:200:20:23

to verify the information given on proposal forms, when somebody takes out insurance.

0:20:230:20:28

'Sounds perfect. If insurers checked you against that database when they took you on,

0:20:280:20:33

'surely non-disclosure would be a thing of the past.

0:20:330:20:36

'Trouble is, they don't always.'

0:20:360:20:38

The question is, why do insurance companies only look at CUE once a claim goes in?

0:20:380:20:44

Why not use it as soon as somebody tries to take out a policy,

0:20:440:20:48

therefore eradicating any chance of a mistake?

0:20:480:20:50

As I say, increasingly, companies are using CUE when a person takes out an insurance policy.

0:20:500:20:57

Insurers recognise it's important not just to disclose all information

0:20:570:21:02

but people need to be given help and understand what it is they need to disclose.

0:21:020:21:07

'Wouldn't it make sense, then, if the CUE system was legally required,

0:21:070:21:11

'to help both the insurer AND the consumer?'

0:21:110:21:14

Would you agree, if companies were duty-bound to check the CUE system,

0:21:140:21:19

it would probably alleviate these problems?

0:21:190:21:21

The CUE system would really struggle to cope with the demand.

0:21:210:21:24

When the Insurance Consumer Act comes into place,

0:21:240:21:28

it will lay down very specific requirements on the questions that insurers can ask,

0:21:280:21:34

and there'll be none of the "please disclose anything else you think is relevant" catch-all questions.

0:21:340:21:39

The onus is very much on insurance companies to make sure they ask the right questions.

0:21:390:21:44

'So there is a system that could stop cases like Tina's ever occurring.

0:21:440:21:49

'Hopefully, more insurers will be checking CUE when policies are taken out,

0:21:490:21:54

'to ensure there is nothing that will affect any future claims.

0:21:540:21:59

'But back to Tina, and just as it feels we're running out of options, there is a sudden development.

0:22:010:22:05

'The Financial Ombudsman have published their findings -

0:22:050:22:10

'that Royal and Sun Alliance are at fault

0:22:100:22:12

'for reinsuring Tina after voiding her previous policy.

0:22:120:22:16

'It's fantastic news. Royal and Sun Alliance have already contacted Tina.

0:22:160:22:20

'I'll find out more when I see her,

0:22:200:22:23

'but I'll make one last call to Royal and Sun Alliance to see if they can explain what went wrong.'

0:22:230:22:30

The thing I want to find out is where you're at at the moment

0:22:300:22:33

with this investigation and this claim.

0:22:330:22:36

'I end up speaking to a lady in Media Relations who says she'll need to double-check.'

0:22:360:22:42

At what point did you first believe that Tina withheld information on her claim?

0:22:420:22:47

'Again, the lady says she'll have to find out as she doesn't know.'

0:22:470:22:51

Is there any of these questions you can answer?

0:22:510:22:54

'Unbelievable! I don't think the word "yes" is in this woman's vocabulary.'

0:22:540:22:59

So we're talking a couple of days,

0:22:590:23:02

ideally before Thursday, if all goes well, yeah?

0:23:020:23:05

'I'm clearly not going to get any definite answers today

0:23:050:23:09

'and I'm more concerned with meeting Tina

0:23:090:23:12

'to find out what Royal and Sun Alliance have told her.'

0:23:120:23:16

How you doing? You all right? Crikey.

0:23:160:23:18

OK, so here we are. Bit of a mess, isn't it?

0:23:180:23:21

'This is the first time I've seen her burnt-out house.'

0:23:210:23:24

-This is where the fire started, Dom, as you can see.

-Shocking to look at.

0:23:240:23:30

-Makes you feel sick.

-That's obviously where it started.

0:23:300:23:33

-Could you see flames?

-Oh, yeah.

0:23:330:23:35

Soon as I opened that front room door, the smoke... was just bellowing in.

0:23:350:23:41

Listen, I've been on the phone to the insurance company.

0:23:410:23:43

There's a couple of issues. I don't know if you're aware, but a lot of people fall into this trap.

0:23:430:23:50

You know the reason they won't pay out is because you didn't disclose that your policy was voided.

0:23:500:23:56

-And you dispute that.

-Yeah.

-I've been disputing it as well.

0:23:560:24:00

Here's the crucial factor.

0:24:000:24:02

The fact that you took out insurance with the same company that had previously voided you,

0:24:020:24:07

and that company didn't pick up on it,

0:24:070:24:10

means, technically, the fault is theirs, not yours.

0:24:100:24:14

Obviously, the insurers have been dealing with me, as have the brokers and everybody else.

0:24:140:24:19

I know they've contacted you and they've told you the news.

0:24:190:24:22

-Yeah.

-So you tell me. I want to hear it from you. You're smiling!

0:24:220:24:26

They're going to pay out! We're coming home!

0:24:260:24:30

I'm getting my house done!

0:24:300:24:33

There's a light in the tunnel and it's approaching very fast.

0:24:330:24:37

-Never ever thought it would be happening.

-Yeah.

0:24:370:24:39

-Nine months. It's been the longest nine months of my life.

-Yeah.

0:24:390:24:45

The girls have got a home to come back to, instead of that house, temporary accommodation.

0:24:450:24:51

We're all coming home.

0:24:510:24:53

In addition, the insurance company are also going to pay you

0:24:530:24:56

all the rent you've paid out of your own hard earnings for the last few months,

0:24:560:25:01

which is in the thousands.

0:25:010:25:04

They'll give you your removal costs

0:25:040:25:06

and put you up in the house you're in now for the next six months, all rent paid.

0:25:060:25:12

So you can stop worrying about the money. You're slightly more relieved.

0:25:120:25:17

-The pressure is easing.

-Yeah.

0:25:170:25:19

'Royal and Sun Alliance has also offered Tina either a year's free insurance or £550 in cash.

0:25:190:25:26

'It's a fantastic result all round.

0:25:260:25:28

'It's the Financial Ombudsman's ruling that has made the difference,

0:25:280:25:32

'but I like to think some added pressure from me helped it along.'

0:25:320:25:36

-I'll love you and leave you.

-Thank you.

-Give my love to the girls.

0:25:360:25:41

-Thank you. Will do.

-Cheerio!

-Bye!

0:25:410:25:43

'We spoke to the firm that deals with Lifestyle Protect's compliance,

0:25:440:25:48

'and they said...'

0:25:480:25:51

'Paymentshield had nothing to add to their earlier statement,

0:26:020:26:06

'but Royal and Sun Alliance said...'

0:26:060:26:09

I think it's absolutely amazing that Dom's done what he's done and helped me and my family.

0:26:240:26:29

That extra help, putting pressure on the insurance...

0:26:290:26:34

I just dread to think what the outcome would've been.

0:26:340:26:39

'For us all to come home, it's fantastic news.'

0:26:390:26:42

I tell you what. That is one very lucky and very relieved lady.

0:26:450:26:49

But there is a lesson there for all of us, me included.

0:26:490:26:52

When you're doing insurance,

0:26:520:26:54

make sure you disclose absolutely everything.

0:26:540:26:58

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