Episode 1 Rip Off Britain


Episode 1

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Next on BBC One Gloria Hunniford, Angela Rippon and Julia Somerville

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are standing by ready to tackle all your consumer problems.

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Every morning we are here lies investigating the stories you have

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asked us to look into on your behalf.

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We are looking forward to that. We are kicking off with how fraudsters

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helped themselves to my savings. Question is, how safe is your cash?

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We asked you to tell us what is in you -- what is leaving you feeling

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ripped off. You told us about the company using

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get it wrong and the customer service which simply isn't up to

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scratch. When you have to call them it takes ages. Some of the other

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answers the phone and they don't know what you are saying. The

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customer isn't benefiting and I'm not getting value for money. You've

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asked us to track down the scammers who stole your money and investigate

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the extra charges you say are unfair. They don't deserve to be in

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any form of business whatsoever, they just want shutting down. And

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when nobody else is to blame you come to us to help others do not

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fall into the same trap. They took the money out of my account and I

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don't even know who's camped me. Whether it is a blatant rip-off or a

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genuine mistake, we're here to find out why you are out of pocket on

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what you can do about it. Your stories, your money, this is

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Rip Off Britain: Live. Good morning and thank you for

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joining us for a brand new series of the Rip Off Britain: Live. Good to

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have you. This is one of our most favourite times of the year.

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Absolutely. Adrenaline pumping. Delighted to be back to talk about

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the issues you say matter most to you.

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That could be anything from a dodgy energy bill to an elaborate scam.

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Our team of experts are fantastic, they are keen as mustard to help you

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out. We are alive, which means you can

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get in touch with us right away while we are on the air.

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Please do send us your questions, comments, and your tips. We will be

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sharing some of your ideas on giving cold callers the cold shoulder later

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on. Also coming up, after my own recent

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experience I have been finding out if banks are doing all they can to

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keep our money safe. Believe me, I have very strong views about that.

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You can believe that. He may be one of the nicest men in broadcasting,

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but Jeremy Vine is going to tell me how he has found the perfect way to

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complain about bad service. Good for him. And back by popular

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demand, our one-stop pop up shop where our experts will have advice

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for you. We have our finance Guru. And our

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technology with David MacLennan. Send them your questions.

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A busy morning ahead of us, clearly. First, given the amount of scams we

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expose on this programme it's no surprise to hear that financial

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fraud went up by over 50% in the first six months of this year.

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But, as we know from the hundreds of people who get in touch with us

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every year, behind every statistic is a very personal story.

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Very personal, because this one is mine!

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As a presenter I've reported on just about every sort of scamming -- scam

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imaginable. And hearing those affected and the devastating impact

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the scams have on people's lives has certainly made me extra vigilant.

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So, the last thing I expected was to find myself on the other side of the

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story when I had part of my life savings stolen from the place where

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I thought they would be most safe. This is my local bank in Kent where

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I live. I thought my savings were tucked up very nicely in a savings

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account which I had not touched for nearly two years. But it turned out

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it was easier for complete strangers at a different branch of this bank

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to get my money than it is for me to get my money. In June last year, 30

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miles away from Croydon, three people found a way to corrupt part

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of my savings which amounted to ?120,000. Not by a sophisticated

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scam, but by walking in off the street with a fake ID and a made up

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story. According to the woman claiming to be me she said she had a

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few bob in the bank but had been ill. She wanted her grandson to be a

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co-signatories so he could draw money from my account. She then

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presented a fake driving licence and a bank card and that was that. --

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co-signatory. The group had almost instant access to my savings. The

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newspapers referred to this woman athlete Gloria lookalike, which

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actually I found very funny. As somebody said online, I think Gloria

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should be more worried about the lookalike band the money. But I

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think you can agree that she looks nothing like me. Not in a million

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years would I expect everybody to know who I am and what I look like.

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I totally get that you don't have to dress up in order to look like

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somebody to impersonate them. But I would expect that the banks would

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carry out stringent security checks before they literally handed over

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tens of thousands of pounds to a stranger. Within a short time of

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leaving the bank, they began a huge spending spree buying ?80,000 worth

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of luxury watches as well as clothes. The question I keep asking

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myself, why was it so easy for somebody else to get their hands on

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my money when I have to jump through so many security hoops when I forget

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a password? Even if I go up to take out and I said, I have to bring my

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passport on various pieces of identity. -- if I go to take out a

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ISA. If my husband went in asking to be a co-signatory they would say it

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would not work like that, but it did work though strangers. The man who

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posed as the grandson, 18-year-old Alan Dowie, received a sentence. The

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judge said he hadn't received a penny piece out of the crime and

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accepted that he was a dude in the scam. And a fourth person, another

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18-year-old, pleaded guilty to laundering some of my money.

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However, police are still appealing for information that would lead to

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the rest of my so-called lookalike and her daughter. That was one of

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the worst things for me because sadly I don't have my daughter, she

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lost her battle with cancer 12 years ago, and that really hurt. Because

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this was so obviously a fraud I wasn't able to get all of my money

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back but really that isn't the point. It is the principal. -- I was

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able. Personally I have lost all faith in banks. My big question is,

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are they really doing enough to keep every customer's money safe? That is

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exactly the question these two are asking. Just three months ago they

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were the target of a very similar crime. And I find out from a fraud

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expert whether banks are protecting us as well as they should. Losses

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from bank accounts, people sending money off to scams runs into

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hundreds of millions, if not billions. Fraud is enormous.

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That is a story that has shocked thousands of people who have been

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aware of it. I think that film demonstrates that it throws up more

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questions than answers. It does. It's very disturbing. The

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more you question it the more disturbed you get. It disturbs me

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that two of the people are still missing. It was the scammer's bank

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that alerted it, not my own bank. Bearing in mind that money has been

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locked away and I haven't touched it the two years, wouldn't you think if

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unusual activity came up on it that my bank would ring me. But it was

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the fraudster's bank who got in contact.

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That is what you would expect. Santander SA they take fraud

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seriously and it is constantly reviewing its policies and systems

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to prevent it. -- Santander say. They say regrettably in this case

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its procedures were not followed. I'll say! Allowing it to occur. It

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is sorry for the inconvenience and stress it caused, but stresses that

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any customer who is the victim of fraud through no fault of their own

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will not lose out financially. How convinced you that the bank is doing

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something to protect people's money? I'm not at all. I'm now suspicious

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or banks. Now I don't know where to put my money. Santander rang me up,

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and I had been calling them endlessly to get information, but

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they took me into the bank to show me their new technology in the

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morning. But this is 2016, why are you putting it in now after my scam,

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because it got high publicity, why did you not do it before? UV light,

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which was stated in the High Court, it doesn't prevent anything. Yet

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they took that as security. They said that the correct procedures

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were not followed. The questions on the basic security forms were not

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completely filled in. Because the girl in the court said she was three

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months pregnant. That was the excuse. Many questions.

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I think we can all tell that you are really distressed by this.

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I am. My youngest said you have got your money back, while you worried?

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I said of course I am worried, I make my money on covering scams.

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It's the principle. Exactly. We would like to know what

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you think about that story. Keep your comments coming because we

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would like to read them out. It is through your e-mails and

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letters that we get a sense of the things that really irritate you the

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most. If there is one topic that leaves you especially steamed up, it

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is the dreaded cold callers. It annoys all of us. You are an

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imaginative bunch. It seems some of you give as good as you get whenever

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the phone rings and it is somebody unwelcome on the other end.

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Currently I'm using dog's names. They asked for my name and I call

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myself Jack Russell. Sorry, I don't live here, I am a decorator. My name

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is Mr Powell Satian. I say in an exotic country and they normally

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hang up on me. -- Mr Al Satian. It appears that you are an inventive

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bunch. They are not only annoying but can also lead to many of the

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rip-offs you tell us about. Whatever the tactic we are pleased to hear

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you are fighting back. There is a long way to go. The body that

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regulates marketing calls, the information Commissioner 's office,

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typically receives more than 14,000 complaints every month. One man who

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is fighting back is businessman Lee Beaumont. After being plagued with

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constant calls he has come up with a rather extreme way of dealing with

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them. And it is even making him money. He set up a second phone line

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with a premium rate number. Whenever he has asked for his details on

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anything which might lead to an unsolicited marketing call it is the

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0871 number he gives out. What was winding me up is that they would

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call me no matter what time of day it was. Even in the evening. I

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wanted them to stop. I thought there must be a way to get them to stop.

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He went online to find out ways to end the nuisance calls. I just

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searched on the Internet. I did a bit of reading up on it. I realised

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I could buy a premium rate number very cheaply. He paid ?10 to set up

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his own premium rate line, which meant he had an de Witt 71 number.

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So to call him would now cost the caller 10p per minute. -- he had an

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0871 number. I hated the cause of Italy. Now I enjoy them because

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every time they call me I am making money. At the start my calls dropped

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dramatically. -- I hated the calls originally. For me it was the best

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of both worlds. His premium rate line has made him almost ?4000. It

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won't make me a millionaire. I am not quitting my job. But the

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difference is I'm not getting annoyed every time they ring me. I

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am enjoying it. If you are thinking of doing something similar, however,

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a word of warning... There is a regulator which requires anybody

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operating a premium rate number to make it clear to callers how much

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they are being charged for the call. That is what he does. If you didn't

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he would soon fall foul of the authorities. -- if he didn't. But

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there are far more Orthodox ways of fighting back. All right, mum? OK.

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12 months ago we told the story of Kath, who was being bombarded with

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cold calls. Sometimes receiving more than 100 per month. She was getting

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lots of pestering phone calls from various companies like PPI. Very

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pressurised. And she is vulnerable and old. By fitting her phone with a

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call blocking device which would only allow numbers through a

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preapproved list we had a very positive result. Steve Smith owns a

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company called true call and is the brains behind the technology. Over

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the last here it blocked 277 unwonted calls for Kath. That is two

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per day. We checked back through the logs to see which companies were

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phoning her and they were all of the usual suspects. PPI course, accident

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claims, the surveys, the vitamin pills. Many trading standards

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officers loaned out his box free of charge to people like Cathy 's lives

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are being made a misery by unwonted phone calls. -- like Kath whose

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lives. In May it was made illegal requirement that marketing companies

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registered in the UK must display their phone numbers, even if their

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call centres are abroad. Making it easier for us to spot a nuisance

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call. If you get a call that hasn't got a

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caller ID shown, and it is a marketing call, make a note of their

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details and you can then report to them. So if you are cursed by cold

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callers, make sure you do something to fight back. Of course you can

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just hang up or there is scope to be a little bit more creative. I kept

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getting phone calls about an accident I had two years ago, which

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I hadn't had. So I told them it was fatal and I died! She put the phone

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down on me rather than me putting it down on them! They never rang back.

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I wonder why! I like their style! As it happens, scams are making

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headlines today. Look at this one, a mountain of scam letters. The

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heartbroken son of a mother who lost thousands of pounds. Thankfully

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trading standards are launching back against the scammers with a new

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initiative to protect people most at risk. With me is Louise Baxter from

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the trading standards scam team and also Tina Stewart, who has stepped

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in to help a lot of people in her neighbourhood. What is behind this

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idea? We have launched a campaign called

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Scams... It Is About Talking Back If You Have Been Scammed And Getting

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Neighbours To Be Nosy. I Am Interested In The Word Shame Because

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It Is Interesting that people think it has happened to them but it could

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happen to everyone. People have got to remember it is a crime. Scam is

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the wrong word. It is a crime. People should not be ashamed that

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they have been targeted by a criminal and fallen victim to a

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crime. And it is the fact it happens in their own home and this is what

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you brought you into this. Yes, I'll had an elderly neighbour who was

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getting letters from the Irish lottery and the Spanish lottery and

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he lost a lot of money. We took him to trading standards and he did not

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believe he was being scammed at first but in time needed. He lost a

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lot money. You had to persuade him? He thought he was going to win all

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this money. In the end we were able to persuade him and help him. You do

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other things, don't you? Yes, I go round and I help my neighbours and I

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give talks to the WRI and whoever invites me, we will help. This is

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just an example of the way word is being spread in the community.

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Absolutely. Friends Against Scams, Tina would be a champion for us,

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spreading the word about scamming and taking a stand against it.

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Knowledge is power. We want to hear from you if you know of anyone like

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Tina who is known locally as being some kind of consumer champion,

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whether it is identifying scammers or helping people with their utility

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bills. Let us know who they are and better yet sent as a photograph and

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we will catch up with some of them later in the week, with a bit of

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luck. What a good job they are doing. This week our team of experts

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is here to tackle your consumer problems, no matter how big or small

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and I love that. It is all live and they are literally outside.

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Angela is out there getting things started. Come and see us if you

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want. Thank you, Gloria. We are already getting stuck in and we have

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a fistful of experts fear. The financial advice service, the

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financial ombudsman service, along with our finance expert Sarah

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Pebbles and technology man David McClelland. Our inbox is always full

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of people who have been caught out by a scam. And this man has been on

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the receiving end of a nasty one. Yes, a Microsoft support scam. You

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get a cold call from a trusted service provider telling you your

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computer has been hacked and the sinister twist here is they told you

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there was a legal stuff on your machine and convinced you to part

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with money. Did you pay them? Originally I parted with ?2.90,

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which I thought would be a good price to pay to get rid of the

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unwanted material, but unfortunately it didn't end there. How much did

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you end up paying? Within the hour they took another ?840. Flipping

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heck! How can we avoid this happening? Any incoming phone calls

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purporting to be from Microsoft, internet service provider, whoever

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else, treat them as toxic and a big lump of lies. You are in safe hands

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here. David Creswell is from the financial ombudsman service. David,

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are you aware of an increase in the number of complaints against banks?

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Far more people are coming to us as soon as they discover, when they get

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that gut-wrenching realisation that it has gone wrong. But interestingly

:19:58.:20:01.

more people are coming with problems and concerns in the months

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afterwards when they realise how long it will take to sort out the

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fallout of things like this going wrong. Can you sort it out for them?

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That is our job, to call the banks to account to find out what happens.

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Stay at its! No pop-up would be complete without a personal finance

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expert, Sarah Pebbles, and she is here with a retired fire man, an

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old. He had had a problem with one of his power supplies. -- Noel. Yes,

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we have heard about this lots of times. Noel was with NPower and the

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problem occurred when they mixed up the day and night readings. They

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said they would sort it out and he switched in the meantime to another

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supplier. They produced a final bill and they said they owed him ?2800.

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That must have given you some sleepless nights! It certainly has.

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I am trying to get my son through university and we have just come

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back from a family holiday and we have Christmas coming up. It was an

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unfussy bill of nearly ?3000 and a demand to pay within two weeks, so

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if you sleepless nights. Especially when it was their fault. But there

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is a happy end to this. Funnily enough, when we got involved, NPower

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looked at it and Noel owes them ?1400 and they got the wrong

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information from the professional meter reader. As a goodwill gesture

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they will write off the ?1400 and he doesn't owe them a penny. They have

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been in trouble before for wrong bills and

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not handling complaints. This time last year they were fined ?26

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million by the regulator. It is worth keeping an eye on your bills.

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I am glad we got a good outcome for you. That is the power of Rip Off

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Britain. Back to you, Gloria. We love it when we get results on your

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behalf. We have been trying to do that all week and we will get great

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results all round, I am sure. All the stories we investigate actually

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come from you, your letters and emails. This is the latest on two of

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the most memorable cases from our recent series. A few weeks ago we

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revealed how an awful lot of us could be driving the wrong type of

:22:22.:22:25.

car. One third of UK motorists have a diesel. But if you mostly do stop

:22:26.:22:32.

start town based driving, that is not the best option. Diesel cars are

:22:33.:22:40.

not suitable for lots of short journeys. Dealers need to make sure

:22:41.:22:44.

they understand what type of driving their customers are doing and then

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make the appropriate recommendation. But when Gerald Williams from

:22:49.:22:51.

Wrexham bought a brand-new diesel Ford focus, he said that wasn't his

:22:52.:22:58.

experience at all. There wasn't much conversation in that area, whether

:22:59.:23:03.

to buy petrol or diesel. It was just recommended, this car here. It was

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only after an engine warning light came on that Gerald discovered a

:23:08.:23:11.

problem common to most modern diesels. If you don't strive them

:23:12.:23:17.

far enough, a filter installed to reduce emissions can get clogged. If

:23:18.:23:22.

you have bought a diesel and you get the warning lights coming on, you

:23:23.:23:25.

must take it for a decent run and get lots of engine revs to clear the

:23:26.:23:29.

filter and you won't have problems. But Gerald is adamant that when he

:23:30.:23:33.

bought the car, he told the sales staff how many miles he typically

:23:34.:23:40.

drives and they still recommended a diesel. I do feel I was mis-sold it.

:23:41.:23:45.

I am not saying it was deliberate, not intentionally done, but I do

:23:46.:23:49.

believe I was mis-sold. The Evans house or dealership told us they

:23:50.:23:54.

cannot comment on what was said to Gerald because the salesperson is no

:23:55.:23:57.

longer with the company but after we filmed with him, there was good news

:23:58.:24:02.

for Gerald. The company told us that with the assistance of Ford Credit,

:24:03.:24:06.

they have reversed the vehicle deal, and as a result Gerald walked away

:24:07.:24:11.

with the ?17,000 refund that he used to buy this petrol car. There has

:24:12.:24:19.

been no such happy ending for one of the most shocking stories from our

:24:20.:24:24.

latest series. Jackie had to run for her life and then watch as her home

:24:25.:24:31.

went from this to this. The whole house collapsed after builders

:24:32.:24:33.

started work on converting the basement of the ground floor flat. I

:24:34.:24:38.

just think we were in shock, all of us. Just watching it unfold. We had

:24:39.:24:45.

to stand on the street and watch it disintegrate. What made it worse was

:24:46.:24:51.

that Jackie and her partner thought they had done all they could to find

:24:52.:24:55.

a builder they could trust, choosing one signed up to the federation of

:24:56.:25:00.

master builders, checking references, and even making sure he

:25:01.:25:04.

had got the right insurance. We lost everything. It was just taken away

:25:05.:25:08.

in skits as we were watching and there was no way to retrieve it. We

:25:09.:25:13.

were not allowed back in. The couple has since won a court case proving

:25:14.:25:16.

the builder was at fault but his insurance company has refused to pay

:25:17.:25:23.

out, saying the builder broke the terms of his cover. We are really no

:25:24.:25:26.

further forward than the day it collapsed. We know we were not at

:25:27.:25:33.

fault, we know who was at fault, but financially we are in the same

:25:34.:25:36.

position. Actually, worse off than we were when it first happened. To

:25:37.:25:41.

top it all, Jackie and head are stuck with 23 years of mortgage

:25:42.:25:44.

repayments on a property they cannot even live in. We have got ?125,000

:25:45.:25:52.

left to play. There is not much else we can do really. Jackie is still

:25:53.:25:58.

hoping to find a solution but in the meantime, several of you have been

:25:59.:26:03.

in touch offering to help. One viewer has said he would be willing

:26:04.:26:07.

to buy the plot of land and build a new house at his own expense. A

:26:08.:26:11.

group of builders contacted us offering to rebuild the house and

:26:12.:26:15.

supply the materials for free. But it remains very hard to understand

:26:16.:26:19.

why it has been so difficult for this whole mess to be sorted out.

:26:20.:26:30.

Yes, I have got to say that is one of the most upsetting cases I have

:26:31.:26:34.

ever covered. That is a horror story about the kindness of strangers is

:26:35.:26:38.

wonderful. What would frustrate me the most is there does not seem to

:26:39.:26:41.

be an answer at the moment and that must drive you crazy when you think

:26:42.:26:45.

about what they have lost. Meanwhile lots of consumer stories making the

:26:46.:26:51.

news today. The energy companies, with the headline saying the big six

:26:52.:26:55.

explored the loopholes so you don't get a good deal. New customers get

:26:56.:26:59.

the good deals and loyal people like ourselves don't get the benefit of

:27:00.:27:04.

that, so not good. Chase them up. Loyalty counts for nothing. From the

:27:05.:27:08.

sublime to the ridiculous, at the other end of the scale there is

:27:09.:27:13.

outrage that chocolate Oranges are getting smaller! Shock horror! They

:27:14.:27:20.

are shrinking by 10%. That is outrageous! New figures have

:27:21.:27:25.

pinpointed who is apparently most at risk from so-called boiler room

:27:26.:27:29.

investment scams and guess who it is according to the Guardian newspaper?

:27:30.:27:35.

Men aged 65 and over. Women over 65 would never fall for that! And

:27:36.:27:41.

Gloria is in the Telegraph! No faith in banks after fraud and that is

:27:42.:27:44.

pretty clear after the stories we have been running today. And they

:27:45.:27:48.

are correct, no faith. It is not just me who has been targeted by

:27:49.:27:54.

fraud. I have heard of so many stories since. But how sure can any

:27:55.:27:59.

of us be that our money is safe in the bank? Earlier in the programme,

:28:00.:28:04.

we saw how a so-called lookalike led a group of fraudsters to raid my

:28:05.:28:08.

savings account. Bold as brass, they walked into the bank and convinced a

:28:09.:28:12.

member of staff to give them access to my money. I would like to think

:28:13.:28:16.

that was a one-off, but after hearing what happened to me,

:28:17.:28:20.

Jonathan Lovett and his wife got in touch with Rip Off

:28:21.:28:31.

Britain to say the very same thing happened to them. Like me, they were

:28:32.:28:35.

blissfully unaware that they have become the victims of fraud, until

:28:36.:28:37.

Barbie tried to use their debit card. I was driving home and I

:28:38.:28:40.

needed petrol, so I stopped and filled up the car and I went to pay

:28:41.:28:43.

with my joint account card, and it was declined. Then I went shopping

:28:44.:28:49.

to get some food, and the same thing happened again. It was only when

:28:50.:28:53.

Barbie arrived home and Jonathan checked their bank account online

:28:54.:28:57.

that the truth became clear. I started looking down and scrolling

:28:58.:29:02.

through the entries on the statement, and I saw ?5,000 and also

:29:03.:29:07.

?4000 had been taken out of the account. Then I saw that ?10,000 had

:29:08.:29:12.

been transferred from one account to another. I said this is

:29:13.:29:15.

extraordinary! This can't be happening. In the space of a few

:29:16.:29:21.

hours, the fraudsters had visited four separate branches of Barclays

:29:22.:29:27.

and somehow they had managed to make seven cash withdrawals, totalling

:29:28.:29:30.

?20,000, from the accounts. Desperate to stop them getting their

:29:31.:29:34.

hands on any more of their money, Jonathan immediately called the bank

:29:35.:29:38.

using the number on the back of his debit card. I explained what had

:29:39.:29:42.

happened and I was told I needed to be transferred to another number and

:29:43.:29:48.

it might take some time. Over the course of three and a half hours

:29:49.:29:54.

there was a sense here that we were maybe responsible for this, either

:29:55.:29:57.

because we had been negligent with the way we had used our cards and

:29:58.:30:02.

revealed our PIN numbers, or maybe that we were complicit in the fraud.

:30:03.:30:07.

Not only did we have the shock of losing the money but this situation

:30:08.:30:10.

where the bank thinks maybe you were part of the scam.

:30:11.:30:16.

During the process of reporting the theft they hit a brick wall when

:30:17.:30:21.

they failed to correctly answer some of the security questions. At about

:30:22.:30:26.

11pm we were left in limbo. The bank wouldn't talk to us any more. We

:30:27.:30:30.

have to wait until 10am the next morning to get into the local

:30:31.:30:35.

branch. We spent a sleepless night and turned up there like a couple of

:30:36.:30:38.

zombies. This woman came up to greet us. I think both of us in an

:30:39.:30:46.

emotional way said we've had ?20,000 stolen from our bank account and

:30:47.:30:50.

that is how the conversation began. The start of a pretty harrowing

:30:51.:30:54.

process to get the bank to admit the fraud had taken place and to make

:30:55.:30:59.

the repayment into our account. One week later Barclay's Bank credited

:31:00.:31:03.

their account with the ?20,000 which had been stolen, but the fraud case

:31:04.:31:09.

is still ongoing. We've never been given any explanation about how the

:31:10.:31:15.

fraud took place. None whatsoever. Who might have done it, how it was

:31:16.:31:18.

structured, how many people might be involved, or whatever. Even though

:31:19.:31:23.

it is something that happened to us. I don't feel happy about what has

:31:24.:31:27.

happened at all. And I don't feel confident that it won't happen

:31:28.:31:36.

again. We are thinking to ourselves, perhaps we ought to change our bank

:31:37.:31:41.

account, but then you think, to who? Where? Is it going to be any better?

:31:42.:31:50.

Fortunately the way in which we were both targeted is unusual, because

:31:51.:31:54.

the vast majority of people would not have the audacity to walk into a

:31:55.:31:59.

bank and clear out an account. Most fraud is done over the Internet by

:32:00.:32:05.

faceless cybercriminals. Even so, it seems that over-the-counter bank

:32:06.:32:08.

fraud is not as rare as we'd hoped. Just last week the professional now

:32:09.:32:13.

jockeys Association warned its members not to keep their money in

:32:14.:32:16.

high street banks after a string of thefts which saw around ?200,000

:32:17.:32:21.

stolen from jockeys' accounts. Again, probably using fake ID.

:32:22.:32:30.

Hello, lovely to see you. To see if the banks are doing enough to keep

:32:31.:32:33.

our money says, I'm meeting up with David Clarke, once one of the

:32:34.:32:36.

country's most senior fraud detectives are now part of the fraud

:32:37.:32:40.

advisory panel which works to prevent such crimes from happening.

:32:41.:32:45.

My account hasn't even been touched for nearly two years. Surely they

:32:46.:32:50.

would have had something to alert them to the fact that this was

:32:51.:32:55.

unusual activity. It does kind of say, there is something missing in

:32:56.:32:59.

between here. Seeing people walk into branches, it is an old trick

:33:00.:33:03.

that has come back. It needs to be blocked. In terms of the driving

:33:04.:33:09.

licence that was produced as identity, it was my details, name,

:33:10.:33:15.

address, but the fraudsters' photograph was on it. Now the police

:33:16.:33:18.

say that it was probably made in a sitting room somewhere in an

:33:19.:33:23.

upstairs bedroom, a complete fake. -- fraudster's photograph. How easy

:33:24.:33:29.

is it to get that kind of stuff? Tragically, very easy. With

:33:30.:33:31.

technology these days the ability to download from websites, fake utility

:33:32.:33:40.

bills, passports... I got this this morning, here is a P 60, a utility

:33:41.:33:44.

bill, a bank statement. They look authentic. They look real. These

:33:45.:33:50.

would be difficult for a professional to identify. They are

:33:51.:33:54.

excellent quality. This is what I fraudster needs to go in and open an

:33:55.:33:57.

account. I often say to people, the UK, we are some of the global

:33:58.:34:05.

leaders in technology. Some of the systems are excellent. But is that

:34:06.:34:10.

rolled out, who was not available to? Banks will have it for certain

:34:11.:34:15.

parts of their business. It works extremely well. Others won't. From

:34:16.:34:20.

your case, from what I've read, there was a suggestion that the lady

:34:21.:34:25.

put it under a UV light. Yes, in the Old Bailey she said that, is it a

:34:26.:34:29.

proper test? I don't know what the bank's particular requirements are.

:34:30.:34:34.

From what you've described, put it under a UV light, whether it is a

:34:35.:34:38.

driving licence or a utility bill, it is not enough. Would it be fair

:34:39.:34:45.

for me to say that banks with more money -- put more money into credit

:34:46.:34:49.

card fraud than they do with locked away accounts like mine? Losses from

:34:50.:34:54.

bank accounts, people sending money off discounts, runs into hundreds of

:34:55.:34:57.

millions, if not billions. The truth is we all lose. I am feeling

:34:58.:35:03.

vulnerable. My feeling is that banks are not putting enough training into

:35:04.:35:07.

their staff to insist that they do stringent checks. You are quite

:35:08.:35:14.

right. Preventing fraud is about, you know, getting these good

:35:15.:35:18.

practices into habitual behaviour. That is for the bank, the tellers,

:35:19.:35:23.

the people in the call centres, and customers. It is education. With

:35:24.:35:28.

some kind of financial scam committed every 15 seconds, it seems

:35:29.:35:32.

there is still a long way to go. Nobody wants to go back to the old

:35:33.:35:36.

days of putting your money in a shoe box and sticking it under the bed.

:35:37.:35:39.

But the banks are going to have to work very hard to convince me that

:35:40.:35:43.

they are keeping our money as safe as it should be. With all of the

:35:44.:35:49.

high-tech security and technology around these days, I still find it

:35:50.:35:53.

unbelievable that strangers could just walk in off the street, go into

:35:54.:35:56.

the bank and effectively just help themselves.

:35:57.:36:02.

It is an extraordinary story. Terrible. Barclay's Bank told us

:36:03.:36:09.

that while the correct decision was made to return the couple's money,

:36:10.:36:12.

they accept they could have handled the case better. They want to

:36:13.:36:16.

apologise to them and they reassured that they will learn from what

:36:17.:36:18.

happened. We asked the British bankers

:36:19.:36:21.

Association to come in and give us some reassurance on all of this, but

:36:22.:36:24.

unfortunately they said they didn't have anybody available this morning.

:36:25.:36:29.

It stressed that tackling fraud is a top priority. The banks stop ?7 in

:36:30.:36:37.

?10 of all attempts last year. -- stopped. They spent a lot of money

:36:38.:36:44.

on sophisticated equipment. They work closely with government and

:36:45.:36:49.

fraud agencies to try to stop all courts of fraud. -- sorts of fraud.

:36:50.:36:56.

The fact representative couldn't come in today tells me something.

:36:57.:37:00.

But I'm joined by barrister Stephen Mason who has written books on bank

:37:01.:37:05.

security. And also represented clients in cases against the banks.

:37:06.:37:10.

Do you think we, collectively, will ever feel safe with banks?

:37:11.:37:15.

It is debatable. Banks have to understand they are in the business

:37:16.:37:19.

of risk and controlling it. When I was on -- in bomb disposal, that is

:37:20.:37:30.

what we did. Is it bigger than what is being reported? It is. As a

:37:31.:37:36.

result of getting some figures from the commissioner at the Metropolitan

:37:37.:37:39.

Police in the City of London, I reckon there is at least 1.9 billion

:37:40.:37:44.

people affected who are not in the official figures. I have to laugh a

:37:45.:37:48.

bit when I hear statement saying we have the best technology possibly in

:37:49.:37:53.

the world. -- statements. Why are they not putting it in? In the end,

:37:54.:37:58.

it cost the bank money because I got the money back. Why don't they put

:37:59.:38:04.

the money into the technology? I can't answer that. With your

:38:05.:38:08.

particular example, what I find extraordinary is that you cannot

:38:09.:38:11.

rely on the document itself. It could be fraud, as we have seen. You

:38:12.:38:16.

should be double-checking where the document comes from. If you have a

:38:17.:38:20.

passport, there is no reason why the banks couldn't double-check with the

:38:21.:38:23.

passport office to check if it is legitimate. Elementary. Very pleased

:38:24.:38:28.

to have come in today. I think we might return to the subject. Thank

:38:29.:38:35.

you. You are welcome. If you have anything to say about banks, scams,

:38:36.:38:38.

or anything else, let us know about it. We will be catching up with your

:38:39.:38:44.

e-mails in a moment. First, all week we are revealing the consumer habits

:38:45.:38:47.

of some quite familiar faces. I can vouch for the fact that our

:38:48.:38:52.

first familiar face, belonging to Jeremy Vine, that he is a nice man

:38:53.:38:56.

but for somebody who comes across so amenable he is also extremely good

:38:57.:39:01.

at complaining. Let's go to the newsroom... He is the voice of Radio

:39:02.:39:07.

2's lunchtime radio news show. No election programme would be the same

:39:08.:39:14.

without him. In Wales, for example, when Labour are dominant... And he

:39:15.:39:17.

is the new face of BBC One's Crimewatch. Good evening and welcome

:39:18.:39:24.

to the programme... But how good is Jeremy at fighting his own corner as

:39:25.:39:29.

a consumer? You have this reputation as a tough interviewer. You take on

:39:30.:39:33.

heads of corporation. You take on MPs. You take on all sorts of

:39:34.:39:38.

people. What kind of things do you complain about? I think you should

:39:39.:39:41.

always complain with humour. You've got to make them enjoy the

:39:42.:39:44.

complaint. They need to put the complaint on their office wall. You

:39:45.:39:47.

need to complain with humour, always. I'm interested in the way

:39:48.:39:52.

you use your Twitter. You have over half a million followers. Do you see

:39:53.:39:59.

the Internet as a powerful tool in the hands of consumers? It is

:40:00.:40:03.

incredibly powerful. Twitter is like a notice board. You put up your

:40:04.:40:06.

tweet on the notice board, other people see it. If they decide to

:40:07.:40:11.

spread it you can find that a tweet from somebody who is pretty obscure

:40:12.:40:15.

suddenly goes viral, or gets spread everywhere. The customer now has the

:40:16.:40:20.

way back to the company. I was on a train once, I could see the tea

:40:21.:40:23.

trolley and it wasn't moving. I tweeted, looks like insert name of

:40:24.:40:29.

company, is thinking of installing their trolley in a museum. Because

:40:30.:40:33.

this thing isn't moving. Then a moment later I saw these two has

:40:34.:40:37.

pushed its trolley. It turned, lumbered towards me, and this man in

:40:38.:40:45.

a uniform said" was it you who tweeted, then? " And I just thought,

:40:46.:40:52.

wow, the power consumers have. Clearly you care a lot about

:40:53.:40:54.

consumer rights. What are your top tips? I have turned the whole thing

:40:55.:41:04.

around. I look for shops where there is bad service and I try to give

:41:05.:41:07.

them good customer presence. By doing what? I am friendly, cheerful,

:41:08.:41:13.

I say, I hope you're having a good day, look as if you are busy, I hope

:41:14.:41:17.

I haven't got in the way. I'm not being sarcastic. I just think, that

:41:18.:41:21.

spread some love. Does it pay off, do you get better service? Mostly

:41:22.:41:27.

not. But once in a while... CHUCKLES

:41:28.:41:32.

Thank you. Pleasure. He is a nice man. But it is the smile on the face

:41:33.:41:39.

of a tiger when he says that. As you can imagine, you have been

:41:40.:41:42.

sending in loads of your comments while we have been on the air,

:41:43.:41:46.

particularly about our banking story.

:41:47.:41:49.

I wonder why that is. Including comments from a lot of

:41:50.:41:52.

banking staff. We will pick up on those later in the week. First, a

:41:53.:41:56.

tweet from Linda Webb who says I think the banks should have a

:41:57.:42:00.

photograph of you on your system so they could check. How easy would

:42:01.:42:02.

that be? Simple.

:42:03.:42:07.

Barbara Richards asks where is the best place to put your money without

:42:08.:42:14.

good interest rate and -- with a good interest rate and where it is

:42:15.:42:20.

safe. The interest on ordinary account is about 1%. 2% if you lock

:42:21.:42:24.

it away for four years. Nothing to write home about. If you put some

:42:25.:42:28.

money into a current account some current accounts pay up to 5%, but

:42:29.:42:33.

only for a year, otherwise other accounts pay up to 1.5% for certain

:42:34.:42:41.

amounts. But do look out for FSC S, it protects up to ?75,000, but that

:42:42.:42:46.

could be with some banks who are in the same group so it is important to

:42:47.:42:53.

check. -- FSCS. Jeff Randall fumbled and asks why TV and Internet

:42:54.:42:59.

companies charge so much for installation when it is just a

:43:00.:43:04.

matter of plugging in a device. -- Jeff from Northumberland. I agree.

:43:05.:43:10.

My advice is to use your power as a consumer to haggle with them and

:43:11.:43:14.

say, well, another provider when charge me. All it is is flicking a

:43:15.:43:18.

switch, and if they don't budge, go to somebody else who will. Shop

:43:19.:43:26.

around. Absolutely. This is from Robert in King's Lynn, he says you

:43:27.:43:29.

mentioned in a programme about cold callers ringing you are, what about

:43:30.:43:34.

cold callers knocking on the door? Another big problem. Good news is

:43:35.:43:38.

you have better rights than he used. If they are trying to persuade you

:43:39.:43:42.

to sign up for a legitimate service, or something to buy, and it costs

:43:43.:43:46.

more than ?42, that is the magic figure, you 14 days -- you have 14

:43:47.:43:56.

days to cancel. But there are some rogues. In some areas with

:43:57.:44:00.

neighbourhood watch you can get a note cold calling zone. But if you

:44:01.:44:04.

get somebody trying to sell you something and they don't offer

:44:05.:44:07.

cancellation right, you can report them. Or slam the door in their

:44:08.:44:13.

face! LAUGHTER

:44:14.:44:18.

That is where we must leave it. It has flown by. We loved having your

:44:19.:44:22.

company and questions. We would do it all over again.

:44:23.:44:25.

And we will do it tomorrow with Ross Altman who will blow the whistle on

:44:26.:44:30.

what she really thinks about how the government has handled changes to

:44:31.:44:40.

women's pensions. -- Ros Altman. See you at 9:15am sharp.

:44:41.:44:42.

Goodbye.

:44:43.:44:44.

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