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But now on BBC One, back with a new series | :00:00. | :00:00. | |
of consumer investigations, it's over to Gloria, Angela | :00:00. | :00:00. | |
And welcome to the start of one of our very special weeks of live | :00:00. | :00:13. | |
Today, we'll be looking at two big stories in the news. | :00:14. | :00:16. | |
One of them that global cyber attack. | :00:17. | :00:18. | |
And the other, the companies charging up to ?23.97 a minute | :00:19. | :00:22. | |
Well, we've got their number all right. | :00:23. | :00:27. | |
And what's being done to keep those costs down? | :00:28. | :00:35. | |
We asked you to tell us what has left you feeling ripped off and you | :00:36. | :00:40. | |
have contacted us in your thousands. You told us about companies you | :00:41. | :00:45. | |
think get it wrong and the customer service that is not up to scratch. | :00:46. | :00:48. | |
We are all just numbers at the end of the day. Profit comes before | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
anything else and that's all that matters. You have asked us to track | :00:53. | :00:56. | |
down scammers who stole your money and investigate extra charges you | :00:57. | :01:00. | |
say are unfair. Why can't they give you the price it should be. They try | :01:01. | :01:06. | |
and charge as much as you can. When you have lost out but no one is to | :01:07. | :01:09. | |
blame you come to us to stop others falling into the same trap. When it | :01:10. | :01:13. | |
comes to customer services, it's dreadful. Whether it's a rip-off or | :01:14. | :01:17. | |
a genuine mistake we are here to find out why you are out of pocket | :01:18. | :01:24. | |
and what you can do about it. Your stories, your money, this is | :01:25. | :01:25. | |
Rip Off Britain. Good morning and many thanks | :01:26. | :01:31. | |
for joining us on one of the weeks of Rip Off Britain that, | :01:32. | :01:34. | |
I must say, we all love the best. And that's because being live we can | :01:35. | :01:38. | |
get your comments right away on the stories that matter | :01:39. | :01:41. | |
most to you. As ever, our team of | :01:42. | :01:44. | |
experts is standing You can e-mail us at | :01:45. | :01:45. | |
[email protected]. Well, I'm sure you'll have plenty | :01:46. | :01:54. | |
to say on that directory inquiries And indeed on the other topics we've | :01:55. | :02:01. | |
been looking into on your behalf. We'll be unpicking a new scam that | :02:02. | :02:08. | |
any one of us could be fooled by. Just wait until you see | :02:09. | :02:12. | |
what the fraudsters And with the news over the weekend | :02:13. | :02:14. | |
dominated by that huge cyber attack on the NHS, | :02:15. | :02:18. | |
we've advice on what to do We've also been testing out wi-fi | :02:19. | :02:21. | |
on the go after a disgruntled train traveller told us he's fed up | :02:22. | :02:27. | |
of paying a fiver a pop for a service that, he says, | :02:28. | :02:30. | |
just isn't reliable. All that, plus consumer champion | :02:31. | :02:36. | |
Dominic Littlewood tells us why And outside we'll be | :02:37. | :02:40. | |
opening our pop-up advice clinic where our experts will be tackling | :02:41. | :02:45. | |
some of your problems. I'm not sure what the collective | :02:46. | :02:51. | |
word for a group of experts is, so I'll just say we've a whole bunch | :02:52. | :02:54. | |
of them out there today and they're going to be answering some | :02:55. | :02:58. | |
of your questions later First, though one of two big stories | :02:59. | :03:00. | |
we're looking at today that are very much in the news, | :03:01. | :03:05. | |
the rising cost of those And it's not just us who think | :03:06. | :03:08. | |
the charges are getting out of hand. ?5. 61 for a 20-second call. | :03:09. | :03:28. | |
?103 for a 27-minute call that the person making it had agreed to have | :03:29. | :03:31. | |
connected. You have sent us a steady stream of | :03:32. | :03:37. | |
complaints about the cost of a call to directory inquiry services. But | :03:38. | :03:41. | |
in recent months some of the prices involved have spiralled and gone far | :03:42. | :03:44. | |
beyond what many would consider a reasonable charge for finding out a | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
phone number. What a great day today. It is. In Southport Mike is | :03:50. | :03:54. | |
great friends with his father-in-law Ron. Last October 88-year-old Ron | :03:55. | :04:00. | |
received an unusually high phone bill he turned to Mike for help. You | :04:01. | :04:03. | |
are younger than me. You are more experienced. He had been charged ?68 | :04:04. | :04:10. | |
for an 18-membership call to the directory inquiries number, a call | :04:11. | :04:13. | |
he couldn't remember making. When I first saw the bill I was shocked. I | :04:14. | :04:17. | |
couldn't believe it. I was very worried. Got upset about it and I | :04:18. | :04:22. | |
rang Mike. It turned out that that what had happened to Ron was | :04:23. | :04:25. | |
something that's caught out a lot of people. He had been trying to call | :04:26. | :04:28. | |
the local hospital but after misdialing one digit he got a | :04:29. | :04:33. | |
recorded message suggesting he call a 118 service for the number he | :04:34. | :04:37. | |
really wanted. So Ron had done just that, not appreciating that when he | :04:38. | :04:41. | |
then agreed to have his call put through to the hospital the entire | :04:42. | :04:46. | |
cost of his chat would be charged at a directory inquiries rate, in this | :04:47. | :04:51. | |
case, ?10. 47 for the first minute and then ?3. 49 for every minute | :04:52. | :04:55. | |
thereafter. Ron had called the 118 number | :04:56. | :05:00. | |
without realising he was ringing a directory inquiry number. He didn't | :05:01. | :05:06. | |
know. I think the charges are unbelievably bad. How can anybody | :05:07. | :05:12. | |
possibly justify ?6 a minute or thereabouts for a call to anything? | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
I wouldn't pay that if I was ringing Australia. I think people like Ron | :05:17. | :05:22. | |
here are very vulnerable to this sort of thing, older people who are | :05:23. | :05:26. | |
used to people behaving more honestly than people sometimes do | :05:27. | :05:29. | |
nowadays. They're almost too trusting. | :05:30. | :05:33. | |
And, for Mike, the point isn't so much how Ron ended up using this | :05:34. | :05:39. | |
particular service, but the amount it ended up costing. Basically, | :05:40. | :05:43. | |
these people should not be allowed to get away with charging these | :05:44. | :05:49. | |
amounts. Regulation should be in force to specify a maximum charge | :05:50. | :05:53. | |
per minute. Vulnerable people are being hit with ridiculous charges | :05:54. | :05:57. | |
which they can ill-afford to pay and there's no way out of it. | :05:58. | :06:02. | |
The company behind the 118820 number has been criticised for its pricing | :06:03. | :06:08. | |
before. Back in 2014 it was fined ?60,000 for several breaches of the | :06:09. | :06:11. | |
regulator's code, including fair treatment of customers, and the | :06:12. | :06:15. | |
prominence of price information. The company is now dissolved and | :06:16. | :06:20. | |
when we contacted its former director he declined to comment. | :06:21. | :06:24. | |
But of course it's not just one directory inquiries number that has | :06:25. | :06:27. | |
had high prices. And that's something about which Martin James, | :06:28. | :06:33. | |
who works for the complaints website Resolver, has real concerns. He is | :06:34. | :06:36. | |
particularly worried when he hearse stories like Ron's. A lot of the | :06:37. | :06:41. | |
complaints we see at Resolve are in relaelgs to misdials where one | :06:42. | :06:44. | |
number can result in you being directed through to a premium rates | :06:45. | :06:49. | |
line. These businesses must let you know before they connect you or when | :06:50. | :06:52. | |
you call through to them what your potential charges might be or the | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
fact they could be quite high but the fact that people are still using | :06:57. | :07:01. | |
them suggests that those warnings simply can't clear enough. So how | :07:02. | :07:05. | |
have we got into this position? You may remember the days when to call | :07:06. | :07:09. | |
directory inquiries all you had to do was ring 192. That number was | :07:10. | :07:15. | |
operated by BT initially for free. Then later at a fixed price of 40p a | :07:16. | :07:21. | |
call. In 2002 the regulator decided to do away with BT's monopoly | :07:22. | :07:26. | |
leaving the door open for independent companies to compete for | :07:27. | :07:29. | |
the market. It was predicted it would drive prices down. In fact, | :07:30. | :07:34. | |
the opposite has happened. In many ways deregulation was that great | :07:35. | :07:38. | |
promised land but it didn't deliver very much for many people. | :07:39. | :07:42. | |
Competition should mean exactly that, competitive prices. We ended | :07:43. | :07:46. | |
up with was a lot of competition looking at different ways to charge | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
more money for people. Around 430 companies now offer a directory | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
inquiries service. Most of them begin with the numbers 118. But the | :07:56. | :08:01. | |
price you will pay with each of them can vary considerably. The most | :08:02. | :08:06. | |
expensive charge we found is ?23. 97 for the first minute of a call. As | :08:07. | :08:11. | |
stoningishly eight different directory inquiries companies are | :08:12. | :08:14. | |
known to have been charging this. Currently the market is dominated by | :08:15. | :08:17. | |
two giants which take up around 80% of the business. | :08:18. | :08:22. | |
The first remains BT. And although the company has more than one way of | :08:23. | :08:26. | |
searching for a number, it is best known service is on 118500. Call | :08:27. | :08:32. | |
that number and you will pay an initial charge of ?2. 75. Plus, a | :08:33. | :08:37. | |
cost per minute of another ?2. 75. So a total of ?5. 50 for a one | :08:38. | :08:41. | |
minute call. As for the other main player, well, | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
over the years we have probably all seen the ads. | :08:46. | :08:49. | |
# If you are someone new and need help... Who you gonna call... | :08:50. | :08:58. | |
A call to 118118, otherwise known as The Number, will cost you ?8. 98 for | :08:59. | :09:06. | |
the first minute, a charge that has risen by 2145% since 2003. And the | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
phone operator could charge up to 5p a minute on top of that cost. While | :09:12. | :09:15. | |
the ads do state these charges it seems we haven't all taken on board | :09:16. | :09:18. | |
how much a typical inquiry will cost. As was made clear when we | :09:19. | :09:22. | |
asked some shoppers in London to tell us how much they thought they | :09:23. | :09:27. | |
would pay for a one minute call to this particular number. I reckon it | :09:28. | :09:30. | |
would cost about this much. That's what I expect to pay. I wouldn't be | :09:31. | :09:35. | |
surprised if it was that one. This is what I think. It shouldn't be | :09:36. | :09:40. | |
higher than that. I would say probably 99p. I would say ?1. 98. I | :09:41. | :09:51. | |
would go for... This one. But when we revealed the true cost it caused | :09:52. | :09:57. | |
quite a stir. I would never have thought it was | :09:58. | :10:01. | |
that much! Shocking! I could buy meat for dinner for the family and | :10:02. | :10:09. | |
have change. That is shocking. Wow. No way! Oh my God! It's actually a | :10:10. | :10:15. | |
lot, yeah. I wouldn't expect it to be that much. I would never do that. | :10:16. | :10:19. | |
Internet is free. While it is true that most phone | :10:20. | :10:24. | |
numbers can be found online, directory inquiries remains a | :10:25. | :10:27. | |
valuable service for many, including some older people and those who | :10:28. | :10:31. | |
aren't online. But not every company makes charges | :10:32. | :10:34. | |
clear when you call. They're only obliged to do so if they go on to | :10:35. | :10:37. | |
connect you. So some people using the service may not know exactly how | :10:38. | :10:43. | |
much it costs or how quickly charges can mount up. | :10:44. | :10:48. | |
Older people are traditionally more likely to use directory inquiries | :10:49. | :10:51. | |
services and are disproportionately affected by these potential charges. | :10:52. | :10:53. | |
If you are used to trusting a telephone number you call through | :10:54. | :10:57. | |
to, and it seems straightforward, you would have no reason to believe | :10:58. | :11:01. | |
the charges would be as high as they could be. And certainly 93-year-old | :11:02. | :11:07. | |
Annie from Manchester had no idea how she ended up having to pay such | :11:08. | :11:12. | |
a huge amount. Her Goddaughter Mary got in touch with us ever Annie, who | :11:13. | :11:19. | |
is hard of hearing, received an unexpectedly large bill after | :11:20. | :11:21. | |
unwittingly calling a 118 number. I was so shocked when you got this | :11:22. | :11:26. | |
bill, Annie. I couldn't believe you paid so much for this bill. Then | :11:27. | :11:33. | |
when I investigated, I mean, it stood out straightaway, because it | :11:34. | :11:39. | |
was ?67, over ?67 for an 18-minute call. I called down to see Annie and | :11:40. | :11:44. | |
she was in a terrible state. She was really in a dreadful state saying | :11:45. | :11:51. | |
about this phone bill. Of course it gave me a shock. She decided what to | :11:52. | :11:58. | |
do with it. I just paid it and that was it. Just wanted to get out of | :11:59. | :12:03. | |
trouble! Annie had been trying to speak to | :12:04. | :12:07. | |
someone about a fault on her line. And she has no idea how it was she | :12:08. | :12:12. | |
came to phone the directory inquiries number 118080, run by a | :12:13. | :12:18. | |
company called Simuex. Nor was it initially clear why the call went on | :12:19. | :12:22. | |
so long but Mary doesn't think it's right that a call of this nature can | :12:23. | :12:27. | |
end up costing so much. I just don't know how it is completely legal. | :12:28. | :12:31. | |
It's so unfair, you know, Annie lives alone and it needs to be | :12:32. | :12:35. | |
stopped. We contacted the company that runs | :12:36. | :12:38. | |
the number Annie called. It told us that calls to this line are charged | :12:39. | :12:43. | |
at 3. 60 per minute which it said isn't high compared to the | :12:44. | :12:46. | |
outrageous charges that have become the industry norm. Annie's high bill | :12:47. | :12:51. | |
must have been because she agreed to have her call connected, so it was | :12:52. | :12:55. | |
all charged at a higher rate. But the company stressed the costs are | :12:56. | :12:59. | |
made clear in the call so that customers can decide whether to | :13:00. | :13:01. | |
continue. We also contacted the two market | :13:02. | :13:08. | |
leaders, BT and The Number. BT, which provides 118500 pointed | :13:09. | :13:11. | |
customers to its free online directory inquiries. And to its | :13:12. | :13:17. | |
lower priced no-frills 118700 service that costs ?1. 45 a minute T | :13:18. | :13:23. | |
said the price of calls to 118500 ensures BT can provide a quick, | :13:24. | :13:26. | |
accurate and professional directory inquiries service. | :13:27. | :13:31. | |
And The Number, which runs 1118118 didn't get back to our e-mails or | :13:32. | :13:37. | |
calls but has previously said it offers a range of services at | :13:38. | :13:40. | |
different price points because while for some speed and convenience is | :13:41. | :13:43. | |
paramount, for others, it may be cost. | :13:44. | :13:47. | |
But if you don't have access to the internet, there are ways that you | :13:48. | :13:51. | |
can get a number without costing you money. For example, The Number | :13:52. | :13:57. | |
offers an entirely free automated service line. That is if you don't | :13:58. | :14:02. | |
mind listening to an advert before getting the number you are after. | :14:03. | :14:07. | |
BT also offers a free directory inquiries number for people with | :14:08. | :14:10. | |
disabilities although to use it you do need to fill out a form to be upt | :14:11. | :14:16. | |
countersigned by a GP. Back in Southport after his father-in-law | :14:17. | :14:19. | |
Ron's experience, Mike would like to see the regulator take more action. | :14:20. | :14:25. | |
Lots of vulnerable people are being charged ridiculous amounts of money | :14:26. | :14:28. | |
for short phone calls and in most cases they've no idea they're being | :14:29. | :14:34. | |
charged that amount. This needs to be sorted and sorted now. | :14:35. | :14:45. | |
Well, I'm glad to say he may well get his wish. | :14:46. | :14:47. | |
We've been talking to the regulator Ofcom about this for some time, | :14:48. | :14:50. | |
and it too is concerned over 118 prices, as the cost of more | :14:51. | :14:53. | |
expensive services has risen significantly in recent months. | :14:54. | :14:55. | |
So Ofcom has just announced it will look into these as part | :14:56. | :14:58. | |
of a Call Cost Review, to ensure people are protected | :14:59. | :15:02. | |
from higher prices, and indeed any unfair practices. | :15:03. | :15:08. | |
I am one of those people who use that, I don't Google. I am horrified | :15:09. | :15:14. | |
at the price. I will never do it again. When you say Ofcom will bring | :15:15. | :15:19. | |
out this report are they going to crack down on charges? | :15:20. | :15:22. | |
I don't see the words "crack down" in what they've told us. | :15:23. | :15:25. | |
But Ofcom says callers should expect to be told very | :15:26. | :15:27. | |
clearly what prices are - and that they are getting | :15:28. | :15:30. | |
So it's going to consider whether we get that, | :15:31. | :15:36. | |
It expects to publish detailed plans around that later this year. | :15:37. | :15:42. | |
What really shocked me in that report wasn't just | :15:43. | :15:47. | |
the cost of the calls but the sheer number | :15:48. | :15:48. | |
of companies all offering a directory enquiries service - | :15:49. | :15:52. | |
I'm sure it will help with that Ofcom review to know what YOU think. | :15:53. | :16:02. | |
And some of you have been telling us while we've been on air. | :16:03. | :16:18. | |
Chris Todman said his elderly, disabled mother always uses | :16:19. | :16:24. | |
Directory Enquiries and agrees to be connected. By so doing, her last | :16:25. | :16:30. | |
quarterly bill included nearly ?400 of charges. Janet, who is also | :16:31. | :16:37. | |
watching, has come up with a good point. How hard would it be to make | :16:38. | :16:41. | |
it law for premium rate lines to have a recording of the price before | :16:42. | :16:43. | |
the call starts? Well, I'm sure we'll return | :16:44. | :16:46. | |
to this topic again. But, next this morning, | :16:47. | :16:48. | |
another way of staying connected... You may be using it | :16:49. | :16:50. | |
to contact us right now. And, if you're out and | :16:51. | :16:54. | |
about at the moment, you may well have to PAY | :16:55. | :16:56. | |
for the service. But is it reliable enough to give | :16:57. | :16:58. | |
good value for money? Wi-Fi has revolutionised the way we | :16:59. | :17:10. | |
communicate. So much so that we now expect to be online rebel we are, | :17:11. | :17:15. | |
outside the home or office and even on the move. Train, bus and tram | :17:16. | :17:20. | |
services across the UK increasingly offer Wi-Fi services. Communications | :17:21. | :17:27. | |
manager Smith Harper has been among those telling us their Wi-Fi | :17:28. | :17:32. | |
experience has not so much been wonderful but distinctly wobbly. He | :17:33. | :17:36. | |
regularly travels on the virgin West Coast line between Manchester and | :17:37. | :17:41. | |
London. When they brought in Wi-Fi I'd thought, great. Be able to do | :17:42. | :17:45. | |
work and stay connected in this hyper connected world. The first | :17:46. | :17:51. | |
time I tried it, I was, that didn't really work. Smith says things did | :17:52. | :17:56. | |
not get better which he finds frustrating put up the Wi-Fi he is | :17:57. | :18:00. | |
trying to use is not free from. Virgin charge him ?5 every trip. I | :18:01. | :18:06. | |
e-mailed them and said I had been on this train journey trying to do my | :18:07. | :18:09. | |
e-mails and have not been able to do it I have my money back? Virgin | :18:10. | :18:15. | |
would not refund the money. Record showed that during the journey he | :18:16. | :18:19. | |
had got online and use much more data than is allowed and it's fair | :18:20. | :18:25. | |
usage policy. I went back and forth with them. They then tried to say | :18:26. | :18:30. | |
you have downloaded all these megabytes. I can't say I haven't | :18:31. | :18:36. | |
done that but the e-mail itself just does not work. Smith could not | :18:37. | :18:41. | |
understand how he could possibly have used as much data as virgin | :18:42. | :18:46. | |
said. As far as he was concerned he could barely send an e-mail. The | :18:47. | :18:51. | |
company told him this could be caused by such factors as programmes | :18:52. | :18:56. | |
running in the background, system updates all streaming movies. He was | :18:57. | :19:01. | |
adamant he had not done this. I thought, it's a fiver, it's not | :19:02. | :19:05. | |
worth losing any sleep. It niggles and it is a frustration. We want to | :19:06. | :19:11. | |
see if the train Wi-Fi is as patchy as Smith claims? We are joining him | :19:12. | :19:16. | |
on the train from Manchester to London and we made sure that there's | :19:17. | :19:20. | |
nothing running on his laptop which would use updater. I'm going to give | :19:21. | :19:26. | |
Virgin Trains one more chance. To test the connection, Smith will be | :19:27. | :19:30. | |
trying to link up with technology expert Graham wild to see how the | :19:31. | :19:35. | |
Wi-Fi is performing. As Smith sets off on his train, Graham is heading | :19:36. | :19:40. | |
to the BBC's New Broadcasting House in London where he will be ready to | :19:41. | :19:45. | |
receive Smith's Munich and is. I am on the internets I have a speed test | :19:46. | :19:52. | |
running. -- communications. It is perfectly fast enough to make most | :19:53. | :19:57. | |
things work. The Wi-Fi at the BBC and that most homes and offices | :19:58. | :20:01. | |
connects to a fixed, physical source. The Wi-Fi on trains work | :20:02. | :20:06. | |
through the mobile phone networks which can be unreliable. Imagine | :20:07. | :20:12. | |
sharing four and six Mobile internets connections between 300 | :20:13. | :20:17. | |
people. Sometimes there are places where there is no mobile signal from | :20:18. | :20:22. | |
any operator. There it will not work at all. Let's see how Smith gets on. | :20:23. | :20:27. | |
I'm just leaving from Manchester Piccadilly on the way to London. I | :20:28. | :20:32. | |
will look into the Wi-Fi and see what happens. Smith pays ?5 for | :20:33. | :20:38. | |
24-hour 's worth of Wi-Fi access. As he leaves the more populated areas, | :20:39. | :20:42. | |
is internets connections start to the Syria -- deteriorate. I am | :20:43. | :20:52. | |
coming up with the request, please try again later. Nothing on | :20:53. | :20:57. | |
Facebook, e-mails. I cannot even go on the BBC website. It | :20:58. | :21:02. | |
disappointment. As the train comes into Stoke, the Wi-Fi springs back | :21:03. | :21:06. | |
into life. To see if any of his communications have got through, he | :21:07. | :21:14. | |
gives Graham a call. How are you? How is short train journey? I have | :21:15. | :21:19. | |
been struggling to get messages to you from Facebook or e-mail. I had | :21:20. | :21:24. | |
something when you set off from Manchester but nothing since then. I | :21:25. | :21:29. | |
did send G1 since then. I wonder where it went too. I think it may | :21:30. | :21:37. | |
have got lost in the ether. I will have to check my e-mails. I have one | :21:38. | :21:42. | |
from you now, so I replied back to that one. Fantastic. While some rail | :21:43. | :21:48. | |
companies charge, on others you can get it for free. On this virgin | :21:49. | :21:53. | |
train that Smith uses there is no Wi-Fi charge for passengers in first | :21:54. | :22:02. | |
class. We know it is a real bone of contention for many of you that in | :22:03. | :22:06. | |
this day and age you ever have to pay for Wi-Fi at all. I never paid | :22:07. | :22:12. | |
for it on the trains. I have before but it was bad so I did not do it | :22:13. | :22:17. | |
again. If you are not in a good place, you feel like you are being | :22:18. | :22:22. | |
ripped off. I have used it on trains before but it is better on the | :22:23. | :22:26. | |
mobile. The laptops you do not get a good signal or usage. What about | :22:27. | :22:33. | |
other forms of transport like coach travel? Graham is going to try for | :22:34. | :22:37. | |
himself the Wi-Fi on national express. He tries to get onto the | :22:38. | :22:44. | |
BBC website. It has loaded quite quickly. That took about a second or | :22:45. | :22:51. | |
so. Mobile coverage along major roads and motorways and so one is | :22:52. | :22:56. | |
much better than it is along the railways, especially in rural areas. | :22:57. | :23:01. | |
That means it is actually a little bit easier for coach companies to | :23:02. | :23:06. | |
offer good Wi-Fi than it is for train companies to do that. So, | :23:07. | :23:13. | |
comes up for coach travel. When a grey and Smith meet up at Euston | :23:14. | :23:17. | |
station in London, Smith is still very unhappy with his experience on | :23:18. | :23:22. | |
the train. -- Graham. It was pretty poor. That has been my experience on | :23:23. | :23:30. | |
Virgin Trains before. The good news is that services like that will get | :23:31. | :23:37. | |
better. The new technology called 5G is much faster and it will make a | :23:38. | :23:41. | |
difference to your Wi-Fi experience. There are special radio networks is | :23:42. | :23:45. | |
being built alongside the railway especially for use for the train. I | :23:46. | :23:50. | |
guess there is good use coming down the track. To use a very cheesy | :23:51. | :23:53. | |
analogy, yes, there is. Well, Virgin Trains accepts | :23:54. | :23:56. | |
their Wi-Fi doesn't fully meet customers' needs, | :23:57. | :23:58. | |
but told us that though they want all customers to have free, | :23:59. | :24:00. | |
fast and uninterrupted Wi-Fi, unfortunately - as the company | :24:01. | :24:02. | |
relies on mobile phone networks for the internet - | :24:03. | :24:04. | |
there's often a very limited service in rural areas, | :24:05. | :24:07. | |
cuttings and tunnels. They say they're working | :24:08. | :24:10. | |
with mobile phone companies to improve the signal, | :24:11. | :24:12. | |
and in the meantime have introduced a free, on-board entertainment | :24:13. | :24:15. | |
service which lets customers stream movies and TV without | :24:16. | :24:18. | |
the need for Wi-Fi at all. Well, difficulties with getting | :24:19. | :24:23. | |
connected are one thing, but - staying with problems online - | :24:24. | :24:26. | |
the big story over the weekend was that global cyber assault | :24:27. | :24:29. | |
that targeted the NHS. It's been described | :24:30. | :24:36. | |
as an historic moment - Joining me now is the the BBC's | :24:37. | :24:37. | |
technology correspondent, Even the headlines today are a | :24:38. | :24:57. | |
wake-up call for the world. 200,000 organisations in 150 countries. | :24:58. | :25:00. | |
Reducing it down to people like myself who are not very good on the | :25:01. | :25:05. | |
website at all, how does the ransomware really manifest? This is | :25:06. | :25:09. | |
the biggest type of cyber crime we are seeing. A recent statistics | :25:10. | :25:14. | |
showed 50% of all offences shown to the police now relate to cyber | :25:15. | :25:20. | |
crime. This is the most serious. What happens is you somehow get | :25:21. | :25:24. | |
malicious software on your computer. The next thing, a message pops up on | :25:25. | :25:30. | |
your screen and says all of your files, your valuable data, is | :25:31. | :25:34. | |
locked. The only way to get it back and unlock it is to pay a fee to the | :25:35. | :25:39. | |
crooks, a ransom. They are quite clever in a way. They do not ask for | :25:40. | :25:44. | |
huge amount of money. Was speaking to a charity and months ago. The | :25:45. | :25:50. | |
manager said they had had one of these ransom things and it was only | :25:51. | :25:55. | |
like 400 quid, proportionately not that much. He said he paid it. He | :25:56. | :26:01. | |
hated himself to pay but he said it would have taken three months | :26:02. | :26:05. | |
because he was not backed up properly to get the info and the | :26:06. | :26:14. | |
cost of an spurt would have cost far more than 400. -- and expert. I | :26:15. | :26:19. | |
think it is sadly the trees. It has taken a global assault. Lots of | :26:20. | :26:28. | |
organisations have experienced this. There are simple lessons around | :26:29. | :26:32. | |
this. You should be keeping your data backed up. You should have a | :26:33. | :26:36. | |
separate hard drive you plug into your computer from time to time, | :26:37. | :26:42. | |
backing up your data. If the worst happens, you should be all right. In | :26:43. | :26:47. | |
this particular case, the one we are hearing about over the weekend, it | :26:48. | :26:52. | |
is mainly directed at large organisations. That is who has the | :26:53. | :26:56. | |
kind of networks where this sort of thing can spread quickly put a bid | :26:57. | :26:59. | |
is not targeted at individuals at home. Would you pay the ransom? I | :27:00. | :27:09. | |
would not be falling for it in the first place, Gloria. You can see why | :27:10. | :27:13. | |
there is a tent Asian to do that. What one hears sometimes is that | :27:14. | :27:19. | |
these criminals are pretty well organised and they will unlock your | :27:20. | :27:25. | |
data if you pay the fees. They know their business. The important thing | :27:26. | :27:29. | |
out of the conversation is to make sure you are backed up and up to | :27:30. | :27:35. | |
date with the companies say. People could have avoided this had they | :27:36. | :27:39. | |
applied a regular Microsoft security update back in March. | :27:40. | :27:45. | |
Well, as Gloria said, that story is still all over the papers, | :27:46. | :27:48. | |
with worries about what other businesses and people might | :27:49. | :27:50. | |
The front page of The Mirror is warning Web Hackers to Strike Again. | :27:51. | :28:02. | |
It goes on to have two full pages of the story inside. It says we are | :28:03. | :28:10. | |
under cyber attack and this is the greatest threat to civilisation | :28:11. | :28:17. | |
since World War II. Probably less of a threat is this story. Busy water | :28:18. | :28:26. | |
can make you fat. That can trigger a hunger hormone which makes you | :28:27. | :28:27. | |
overweight. The Mail is following up | :28:28. | :28:30. | |
on suggestions that Amazon may allow refunds on low-cost items | :28:31. | :28:33. | |
WITHOUT you needing The company wouldn't | :28:34. | :28:34. | |
comment but certainly that It means you get the refund and the | :28:35. | :28:37. | |
item as well. Good idea. And finally the FT says Pension | :28:38. | :28:48. | |
Fraud Losses Hit Record High - that's something we'll be looking | :28:49. | :28:51. | |
at on Wednesday's programme. Well, all this week we'll have | :28:52. | :28:54. | |
updates on some of the stories we've And I'm afraid we've uncovered | :28:55. | :29:00. | |
a whole new twist to a scam we've You may remember a scan we first | :29:01. | :29:13. | |
told about in 2015. Fraudsters have found a convincing to make take | :29:14. | :29:20. | |
calls appear to be from a genuine, trusted number for that they can use | :29:21. | :29:26. | |
widely available at two show a number as coming from, for example, | :29:27. | :29:32. | |
your bank. These two people received an unexpected call and it showed up | :29:33. | :29:35. | |
on their phone as being from their bank, Santander. The number that | :29:36. | :29:42. | |
showed up on my phone was the same number as the back of the Santander | :29:43. | :29:47. | |
card. That convinced me he must be from the bank. We thought that that | :29:48. | :29:53. | |
is it. It cannot be anything else. They were about to become victims of | :29:54. | :29:58. | |
what is called number spoofing by disguising the number they are | :29:59. | :30:01. | |
really calling from to look like one we know. Criminals are able to get | :30:02. | :30:05. | |
around the fact that we're all becoming more wary about who might | :30:06. | :30:09. | |
be on the line. In this case got it meant they could convince the couple | :30:10. | :30:13. | |
their bank accounts were at risk from fraudsters and they should move | :30:14. | :30:17. | |
their money elsewhere. I was in a panic we were losing our money. He | :30:18. | :30:31. | |
said from your cash Isa, we'll move that first found we will take a | :30:32. | :30:37. | |
whole lot out. Trish transferred ?50,000 into supposedly safer | :30:38. | :30:40. | |
accounts that belonged to the fraudsters. The realisation they had | :30:41. | :30:45. | |
been conned hit couple hard. My overall feeling is devastation, to | :30:46. | :30:50. | |
be honest. I did go down into a depression afterwards for quite a | :30:51. | :30:56. | |
long time because we have lost a lot of money. I was thinking, that is | :30:57. | :31:01. | |
our retirement fund gone up the creek. I did feel... I felt really | :31:02. | :31:09. | |
stupid to have been conned. The bank was able to recover ?27,500 of the | :31:10. | :31:17. | |
couple's money. They were left ?22,500 out of pocket. As Trish | :31:18. | :31:21. | |
Adudu authorise transactions, the bank said it could not accept any | :31:22. | :31:27. | |
responsibility for the losses. There has been a further development. In | :31:28. | :31:31. | |
February this year, a man was jailed 18 months for his part in this scam. | :31:32. | :31:38. | |
Unfortunately, as with many scams, this one has continued to evolve and | :31:39. | :31:42. | |
now fraudsters are not only using this method to trick people with | :31:43. | :31:47. | |
calls, they are doing it with texts as well. | :31:48. | :31:52. | |
Well, with us to tell us more about this new version of the scam | :31:53. | :31:55. | |
is fraud lawyer Arun Chohah and Claire Pearson who, | :31:56. | :31:57. | |
I'm sorry to say, fell victim to one of these fraudulent texts. | :31:58. | :31:59. | |
To the tune of ?71,000. That's awful. Terrible. Why did the whole | :32:00. | :32:08. | |
thing seem plausible? I received a text message on a thread of genuine | :32:09. | :32:12. | |
text messages which I thought were from my bank. I had no reason to | :32:13. | :32:16. | |
believe this wasn't a real message from my bank. What were they asking | :32:17. | :32:21. | |
you to do? How did they approach it, they talked about a possible fraud? | :32:22. | :32:27. | |
They said is this your transaction, this is a possible fraudulent | :32:28. | :32:30. | |
transaction, did you make it? Call this number. I was in a rush, I | :32:31. | :32:35. | |
panicked. I was seven months pregnant. I thought I have to get | :32:36. | :32:39. | |
this sorted quickly. Rang the number from the text message. It was all to | :32:40. | :32:43. | |
do with the length of time they kept you on the phone, wasn't it? Yeah, I | :32:44. | :32:49. | |
spoke to the guy for half an hour. Went through a full security check. | :32:50. | :32:57. | |
Cancelled my debit card. At the end of the phone call I was ?71,000 | :32:58. | :33:02. | |
short. They had been milking your account. While I was on the phone. I | :33:03. | :33:07. | |
imagine this is a story you have heard before, something similar, | :33:08. | :33:12. | |
Arun. Her bank has taken very hard line with her, saying you did this | :33:13. | :33:17. | |
to yourself, therefore, it's not a fraud that we can say we will | :33:18. | :33:21. | |
compensate you. Do you think that's being harsh? To an extent I think | :33:22. | :33:26. | |
it's being harsh. The criminals are out there intercepting text messages | :33:27. | :33:32. | |
and telephone calls but banks do have monitoring software, they have | :33:33. | :33:34. | |
the ability to delay transactions. So, I think there is more banks | :33:35. | :33:39. | |
could do. But I suppose their worry is opening the flood gaits to saying | :33:40. | :33:42. | |
they could do that and take responsibility. What about us as | :33:43. | :33:46. | |
individuals, what are the dangers we should be looking out for and what | :33:47. | :33:50. | |
should we never do? This new-age type of attack, you have to take a | :33:51. | :33:54. | |
moment and consider the situation. Don't react swiftly. If you are | :33:55. | :33:57. | |
going to make contact with your bank because you see something like this, | :33:58. | :34:01. | |
call the number on the back of the card, don't use the same phone you | :34:02. | :34:04. | |
received the messages from, use another phone. Banks aren't going to | :34:05. | :34:08. | |
ask you to transfer money to an account they set up. They're not | :34:09. | :34:12. | |
going to make you part with money to deliver a card. Take time and keep | :34:13. | :34:16. | |
control of the situation. Do you think if you heard that before it | :34:17. | :34:19. | |
would have helped you in your situation? Yes. I wish I had taken | :34:20. | :34:25. | |
five minutes to stop and think. I would be in a different position. | :34:26. | :34:29. | |
It's great to be wise after the event. Sorry for what happened to | :34:30. | :34:33. | |
you. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that story with us. Thank | :34:34. | :34:35. | |
you, Arun too. Well, all week our experts will be | :34:36. | :34:39. | |
tackling your problems in our pop-up Yes, our experts are already | :34:40. | :34:42. | |
busy getting stuck in. Personal finance expert | :34:43. | :34:52. | |
Sarah Pennells is here along with Lyma Blay who's had rather | :34:53. | :34:56. | |
a lot of trouble with, and indeed Tell us what happened | :34:57. | :34:59. | |
when yours developed a problem. Yes, that's true. It was faulty. It | :35:00. | :35:10. | |
was considered faulty. Taken away and essentially we didn't have a | :35:11. | :35:13. | |
fridge for ten days until it was replaced. Ten days for anybody | :35:14. | :35:17. | |
without a fridge is pretty bad, in kaur case there was a reason why you | :35:18. | :35:22. | |
needed that fridge. At that point I had a 12-month-old baby who was on | :35:23. | :35:27. | |
antibiotics that had to be kept cold and milk and food and so forth. It | :35:28. | :35:32. | |
was really hard. You did eventually get a replacement fridge number two | :35:33. | :35:36. | |
after ten days. Sarah, what are the rules carding -- regarding | :35:37. | :35:40. | |
replacement or moneyback when you have a problem with something you | :35:41. | :35:44. | |
need like a fridge or oven. The law is clear, as the fridge went wrong, | :35:45. | :35:48. | |
soon after she bought it, if it had gone wrong within 30 days she should | :35:49. | :35:52. | |
have been offered a refund. She could have got a fridge the next | :35:53. | :35:56. | |
day. If they wanted to give a replacement, the laws is less clear | :35:57. | :35:58. | |
about how quickly you have to do that. But common sense surely would | :35:59. | :36:02. | |
tell you you shouldn't leave a mother and a young baby without a | :36:03. | :36:05. | |
fridge for ten days. Absolutely not. We know that they did replace it | :36:06. | :36:10. | |
after ten days. That also you feel developed a problem. Yeah. You went | :36:11. | :36:16. | |
back to Samsung. We have spoken to Samsung and they say they have sent | :36:17. | :36:20. | |
an engineer and he can find no fault with the fridge. However, because | :36:21. | :36:26. | |
they believe they believe customer satisfaction is paramount for them | :36:27. | :36:29. | |
they're going to replace that fridge so you are going to get fridge | :36:30. | :36:33. | |
number three. With luck, that one won't have a fault. Do tell fuss it | :36:34. | :36:37. | |
does because we would like to follow it up. Sarah, thank you very much. | :36:38. | :36:39. | |
Join me here. Over here is Andy Webb | :36:40. | :36:42. | |
from the Money Advice Service and Christine Barnwell who's had | :36:43. | :36:45. | |
quite a drawn out process trying to We won't get into all of the detail | :36:46. | :36:47. | |
of what happened but there was something very interesting | :36:48. | :36:53. | |
you were told when you eventually tried taking it up with your | :36:54. | :36:55. | |
credit card company. I missed the opportunity, the window | :36:56. | :37:04. | |
of opportunity was too late. What do you mean? They have a restriction on | :37:05. | :37:08. | |
how long before I can claim the money back. How long was that? They | :37:09. | :37:14. | |
told me 105 days. You were outside of that? I was, yes. Andy, in the | :37:15. | :37:18. | |
office we found this extraordinary because we had never come across | :37:19. | :37:21. | |
this before. We always assume if you have a problem with a credit card | :37:22. | :37:25. | |
that means that you have good protection. I don't think any of us | :37:26. | :37:28. | |
have thought that was a time limit on it. It's important to know we are | :37:29. | :37:31. | |
talking about disputed payments. Maybe you have been charged too much | :37:32. | :37:35. | |
or something you don't even recognise at all. Now, what they've | :37:36. | :37:39. | |
said is contact the person that's on there first of all and say what is | :37:40. | :37:42. | |
this charge and money back or whatever. You should also at the | :37:43. | :37:45. | |
same time contact the credit card provider as well because they'll be | :37:46. | :37:50. | |
able to tell you exactly what these windows are and you are not going to | :37:51. | :37:53. | |
fall out of time like we have here. It varies. Visa and Mastercard is | :37:54. | :37:59. | |
120 days. American Express is 105 days. That's when you have to put | :38:00. | :38:03. | |
your claim in and say I want my money back and hopefully you will | :38:04. | :38:05. | |
get that cash back for a disputed claim. Still got all that credit | :38:06. | :38:11. | |
card consumer protection we talk about like section 75, if something | :38:12. | :38:14. | |
doesn't turn up or it is broken you have longer to get money back. Who | :38:15. | :38:17. | |
would have known there was a time limit on anything we do with our | :38:18. | :38:21. | |
credit cards. Thank you very much, Christine, for flagging that up. | :38:22. | :38:25. | |
Thank you very much to our experts. Still lots of people here with us. | :38:26. | :38:30. | |
We are going back to the studio now. I love the idea that it's all live | :38:31. | :38:34. | |
and you can join us in the pop-up shop any day this week. | :38:35. | :38:38. | |
We'll be tackling more of your problems in our pop-up shop | :38:39. | :38:41. | |
And each day too we'll be sharing the spending secrets | :38:42. | :38:44. | |
First to spill the beans is this very cheeky chap. | :38:45. | :38:50. | |
He is known to millions from shows such as Don't Get Done, Get Dom and | :38:51. | :38:59. | |
Right On The Money which is back on BBC soon. When you pay for the | :39:00. | :39:07. | |
policy, do you pay in a lump sum? That's the wrong answer! It seems | :39:08. | :39:11. | |
Dominic Littlewood has always had it in him to be a consumer champion. In | :39:12. | :39:15. | |
his 20s he took three companies to the small claims court after getting | :39:16. | :39:20. | |
fed up with them fobbing him off. He won every case. So what are his | :39:21. | :39:25. | |
consumer secrets? Dominic, you are here because you are a red hot | :39:26. | :39:30. | |
consumer expert. I want to quiz you about you as a shopper. What is it | :39:31. | :39:35. | |
like when you go into the shop, do they recognise you and think oh-oh! | :39:36. | :39:40. | |
? A mile away they see me coming and the reaction is entertaining. One | :39:41. | :39:42. | |
example, this has happened a few times, people know I am a good | :39:43. | :39:48. | |
haggler, I haggled once on a backet of biscuits to prove you can get a | :39:49. | :39:54. | |
discount. The shopkeeper found it funny someone was bothering, | :39:55. | :39:57. | |
whatever it was 20 off a packet of biscuits. I did it to say look, you | :39:58. | :40:01. | |
can haggle. As long as you do it the right way you can do it, people will | :40:02. | :40:06. | |
have fun with it. Yeah, OK, it's a ?1. 50 packet of biscuits, so what, | :40:07. | :40:11. | |
have fun. You have been a consumer expert for ten years now. What's the | :40:12. | :40:14. | |
main thing you have learned in that time? One bit of advice I would give | :40:15. | :40:19. | |
to anybody, whenever possible pay for everything on a credit card. | :40:20. | :40:22. | |
Now, a few reasons for that. You have to have discipline. I have a | :40:23. | :40:26. | |
direct debit set up so every month it is paid off but benefit of paying | :40:27. | :40:31. | |
by credit card, straightaway you have protection, covered by section | :40:32. | :40:34. | |
75, which means if you have a problem and something goes wrong you | :40:35. | :40:38. | |
can go back to the credit card company and say this person isn't | :40:39. | :40:42. | |
honouring the warranty or anything, they'll step in so you have added | :40:43. | :40:45. | |
level of protection. If I buy a pint of milk in the supermarket, credit | :40:46. | :40:49. | |
card, credit card, credit card. Everything is covered. Job done. No | :40:50. | :40:52. | |
interest. Credit card companies probably hate me. We get a lot of | :40:53. | :40:57. | |
letters and so on from people who are aggrieved because they've paid | :40:58. | :41:01. | |
for something that hasn't worked out the way they wanted it to. What | :41:02. | :41:05. | |
would your recommendation be? For starters, keep calm. Keep cool. I | :41:06. | :41:09. | |
always try and do everything as a normal punter. For starters, when I | :41:10. | :41:14. | |
am on the phone to anybody I record all my calls. Have you noticed when | :41:15. | :41:18. | |
you phone up they say just to let you know, our calls are recorded for | :41:19. | :41:22. | |
training and exercise purposes. I say just to let you know so are | :41:23. | :41:28. | |
mine. Keep a record, it's brilliant because you can go back and say | :41:29. | :41:31. | |
yeah, I did say that or they said that. That helps, if you can't | :41:32. | :41:35. | |
record them make notes just so you have a diary of that, I tell you | :41:36. | :41:39. | |
what you need to fall back on it and if it is there, it's worth its | :41:40. | :41:43. | |
weight in gold. He is a real character. | :41:44. | :41:48. | |
He is. Two of our experts are still with | :41:49. | :41:53. | |
us. They're going to answer some questions. I have to thank Barbara | :41:54. | :42:00. | |
from Bradford and Robbie. This question to Sarah ray, how can we | :42:01. | :42:06. | |
stop nuisance calls from abroad, they're both already signed up to | :42:07. | :42:12. | |
stop unwanted UK calls. TPS does cut down on calls but doesn't get rid of | :42:13. | :42:15. | |
all of them, especially from those calls where they're from overseas | :42:16. | :42:18. | |
companies. Basically, the law changed a year ago and companies, | :42:19. | :42:22. | |
whether they're overseas or nr the UK, should display their number so | :42:23. | :42:26. | |
you can find out who is calling you and unfortunately sometimes they | :42:27. | :42:28. | |
display false numbers, this happened to me. The TPS only covers companies | :42:29. | :42:33. | |
that are registered in the UK. I would recommend if neither of these | :42:34. | :42:38. | |
wr are working and the calls are beginning to bug you, invest in call | :42:39. | :42:42. | |
blocking software, some are very effective. Thank you for that. A | :42:43. | :42:46. | |
question for you, Rory, from John. Morning, John. If the recent cyber | :42:47. | :42:52. | |
attack locks your computer, do you need to reinstall the operating | :42:53. | :42:55. | |
system even if all your files have been backed up, a lot of people will | :42:56. | :42:59. | |
want to know that? Absolutely. I should stress again it's unlikely | :43:00. | :43:02. | |
that people at home will be affected by this. It's mainly big | :43:03. | :43:07. | |
organisations. But if you are, I think you will have to reinstall | :43:08. | :43:12. | |
your operating system, take advice first. Because if you have a backup | :43:13. | :43:16. | |
of your files, the virus, the bug, may still be in your system and you | :43:17. | :43:21. | |
don't want to set it running all over again and possibly infect other | :43:22. | :43:25. | |
computers. For you, Sarah, from David. He wants to know if an | :43:26. | :43:30. | |
unmarried couple can get travel insurance, he and his girlfriend had | :43:31. | :43:34. | |
to come back early from holiday and insurers are not paying out because | :43:35. | :43:37. | |
they're not married. That's an odd one, some will class you as a couple | :43:38. | :43:40. | |
if you have been living together for six months or more. So I think the | :43:41. | :43:44. | |
insurers need to move with the times. There are some that will | :43:45. | :43:45. | |
cover you. I agree with that. Well, I have to stop | :43:46. | :43:49. | |
you there because I'm afraid we're Thanks to everyone who's | :43:50. | :43:51. | |
contacted us this morning. We'll be back tomorrow | :43:52. | :43:54. | |
with a shocking story anyone thinking of buying a used car really | :43:55. | :43:57. | |
won't want to miss. And we'll be looking at some | :43:58. | :43:59. | |
of the online tactics retailers use to make us hurry up | :44:00. | :44:02. | |
and spend our money. We'll see you back | :44:03. | :44:04. | |
here at 9.15am sharp. | :44:05. | :44:09. |