Episode 20 Rip Off Britain

We asked you to tell us what's left you feeling ripped off

and you contacted us in your thousands.

You've told us about the companies you think get it wrong

and the customer service that simply is not up to scratch.

I've complained and complained and nobody takes any notice of me.

In all honesty, I think it's just a way for the shops to make more money.

You've asked us to track down the scammers who stole your money

and investigate the extra charges you say are unfair.

You don't want to spend any more but, yet, they're always trying

to offer you little things extra.

And when you've lost out but no-one else is to blame,

you've come to us to stop others falling into the same trap.

Rang up the company and they went, "Oh, it isn't our fault."

So, whose fault is it?

So, whether it's a blatant rip-off or a genuine mistake...

We're here to find out why you're out of pocket

and what you can do about it.

Your stories, your money, this is Rip-Off Britain.

Hello and welcome to Rip-Off Britain where, as ever, we're all about

making sure that you get what you expect from the companies with whom you do business

without any unexpected surprises a bit further down the line.

And, you know, that's particularly important when

you've gone to them for some kind of expert help or assistance.

You know, an awful lot of companies like to make a big deal about being

there to help you sort out a problem or perhaps even escape a

situation altogether but as the people we'll meet in today's

programme found out - I'm afraid, to their cost -

just because a company says

that it's uniquely placed to help you out,

it doesn't always mean that that's exactly what's going to happen.

And, in fact, in some cases, they may end up doing the very opposite

of what was promised and actually make things a whole lot worse.

So, watch and learn.

We'll have some tips and advice to help you tell which companies

really are the experts they claim to be

so that you don't end up in situations like the ones we're going

to be hearing about.

Coming up...

How one family's house move went disastrously wrong when

the remover men turned rogue after loading up the van.

I actually felt at this stage that my goods were being held to

hostage and I was just totally powerless.

And a company supposed to help its customers become debt-free,

but, instead, left them owing thousands more.

I felt totally robbed. The job I'd paid them to do, they didn't do.

Ten years down the line, we're in more debt than when we started.

Now, moving house is said to be right up there among the most

stressful events of your life.

One of the worst moments of all comes right at the end when

you pack up all your precious belongings and hope to

goodness they all arrive in one piece.

It's why many of us put our trust in the experts,

booking a removal company to do the job for us.

But here's a terrifying example of what can happen if that goes wrong

and the removers fail spectacularly to live up to expectations.

It was one of the worst days ever.

And I would hate for anybody else to go through what we did that day.

Val Churchill's removal experience soon became a nightmare even

though she'd found a company she was confident she could trust -

an apparently local firm offering what seemed a great deal.

Reassurances that they'd actually offered was there'd be

a supervisor and two movers and that they would take care of everything.

So, they would professionally wrap our mattresses, they would

wrap all of our televisions, it was all going to be taken care of.

Val had gone for a business called Wilson Removals Oxford -

not to be confused with companies of a similar name.

And what had clinched the decision was that, unlike most of the

other firms she had looked at, the company appeared to belong to

one of the very few trade bodies in the removal industry.

In this case, the Professional Movers Association

which gave her the peace of mind to go ahead.

I really believed that these guys were good, honest guys

that were going to do a good job.

The company was set to pack and wrap most of Val and

her family's belongings as well as disassemble the furniture but

on the morning of the move, Val's confidence in them took a dive.

I looked out the window to see a large beat-up van,

two guys got out and I'd actually gone out to ask them

if they was lost and they said, "No, we're actually the removals."

My heart just sunk.

On top of that, there were only two removal men on the job

instead of the promised three,

leaving Val worried that all that wrapping and packing might

not go as smoothly as she had hoped.

I looked straightaway for the bags of wrapping,

I asked about the wardrobe boxes, and I was told that,

"No, we haven't got any wardrobe boxes."

I realised, at this stage, that there was no wrapping material,

there was no way that they were going to be dismantling my beds.

All of the things that I'd been promised.

She started to wonder whether Wilson Removals Oxford

was actually up to the job.

But says her calls to the company's office to query what was

going on went unanswered.

I decided to take some photographs

because I realised the damage that was being done.

My three-piece suite was being scraped along the wall and

then it was being put in the van just on it's side and just

being shifted straight along the ground.

There was no coverings, there was no protection.

Val's daughter asked the movers to prove they were insured

for any damage and that stopped them right in their tracks.

They both immediately walked outside, locked the back of the van.

The movers said Val would need to settle the entire £450 bill

for the job before they would carry on.

They wanted that money

and decided that they were going to drive away with our goods.

I actually felt, at this stage, that my goods were being held to hostage.

And I was just totally powerless.

I decided to call the police.

The police helped Val's husband convince the movers

to come back and brokered a compromise that the company

would be paid on the proviso that Val's husband travelled

in the van with the family's belongings.

After that, the family and their worldly goods made it here

to their new home.

-Hi.

-Hi, Val.

But it was only as they started to unpack their belongings that

they discovered the extent of the damage.

What kind of things went wrong and what did you notice had been done?

We've got leather three-piece suites and they scraped those against

brick work, our wooden furniture was all scraped.

One of our televisions, that's never worked again since.

Val has tried to complain to Wilson Removals Oxford but says the

company hasn't responded to any of her calls or e-mails.

I felt completely powerless to do anything.

Presumably, you were hoping that they were insured and you would be

able to claim on their insurance.

They told us we would be insured for any damages.

I don't see why I should claim on my own insurance

for something that somebody else has done.

The service that they promised me isn't the service I received.

Well, Val's understandably fed up with her e-mails and phone

calls going unanswered.

So, to try to get some answers from the company in person,

we got in the car and headed to the address on the company's website.

And as far as you know, are the company still trading?

They are still trading.

A colleague of mine just recently enquired about moving

and had telephoned Wilson's by accident because he...

-He knew about your experience.

-Yeah, he did.

And then said to me, "Oh, yes, they're definitely still trading."

But it turns out the address Wilson Removals Oxford

uses on it website and paperwork isn't its office at all.

Instead, it's an entirely unrelated company.

Even this morning I went on their website and this is the address

that they've given that they trade out of.

Well, as you say, certainly not Wilson's.

So, Val picks up the phone and tries calling the company again.

This time, someone does pick up.

And it starts to become clear that the main base of Wilson's Removals

isn't even in this town let alone street.

So, what's the outcome?

She's going to see if she can locate somebody from Wilson's Cowley

to contact me and they're going to ring me back.

So, we found a firm called Wilson's and they're in the

removals business but they're in Reading not Cowley and that's as

much as we know and they're certainly not here.

They're not here.

Well, the explanation turns out to be that there is

a company in Reading called Wilson Removals And Storage

which had allowed an entirely separate contractor to pay

a fee to operate under the name Wilson Removals Oxford.

It was that business Val had ended up booking and though the

original Reading-based removal operation is still trading,

the Oxford subcontractor has since gone out of business.

But, remember, one of the reasons Val had chosen it in the first place

was because it proudly declared its membership of

the Professional Movers Association.

In normal circumstances,

that would have meant it was signed up to a code of conduct and

the trade body might have been able to help once things went wrong.

Trouble is, as become becomes clear when we meet the association's

managing director Jane Finch, Wilson Removals Oxford never really

had been a member at all.

It had simply used the association's logo to trick people

into thinking it was.

The fact that they thought that it was OK to just use

a trade association logo without having permission shows the

kind of rogues that they are.

Only 10% of removal firms genuinely are members

of the two main trade bodies.

The Professional Movers Association and the bigger,

longer-established British Association Of Removers.

Both have websites where you can check if

a business that claims to be a member is telling the truth.

If they are, then the association should be able to provide some

assistance, but if they are fibbing, Jane says, "Proceed at your peril."

There aren't any rules or regulations in the industry

to stop anybody from just putting up a website that looks like

a removal company and, basically. taking your money.

So, people can trust all their worldly goods and they could

have just drove off into the night.

And while at least Val's possessions were only damaged rather than

disappearing altogether,

she fears she'll never get compensated for that damage.

I have a feeling that maybe they're not insured.

It looks like I've got no case.

There's nobody to be able to hold account, is there?

There really isn't very much you can do,

because they've effectively disappeared.

They're not contacting you after the problems and them not being

a member of our association, we can't do anything to,

you know, to push them along either.

Well, we tried contacting Wilson Removals Oxford,

but I'm afraid we didn't get a response.

And, when we got in touch

with Wilson Removals And Storage in Reading -

the company whose name the Oxford outfit was paying to use -

it told us that this was the first it had heard of Val's case.

It stressed that, apart from the arrangement over the name,

it had no connection with the Oxford business

and isn't responsible for its actions.

Nevertheless, because the whole affair does involve its name,

Wilson Removals And Storage said it was keen to "make it right",

and would offer Val some compensation

for her "unfortunate experience."

So, a resolution of sorts for Val,

but, if you want to make sure you pick the right firm

to help you move house, Jane has plenty of advice to keep in mind.

Look at customer reviews.

See what past customers actually thought about them.

If they say that they're a member of a trade association,

physically go on the trade association's website,

because they'll have a directory of all of their members.

If they're not a member, ask to see references.

If they're a good company, they will be willing to give you references.

They'll also be willing to give you copies of their insurance,

so that you do know that they are insured properly.

But Val would like to see the removals industry properly regulated

so that no-one else has to go through a similar experience.

I really do believe that this needs to be a regulated industry.

Unfortunately, anybody can take your goods.

You're entrusting your worldly goods to anybody.

Now, get this...

The average British household is now around £12,000 in debt,

and that's not taking into account our mortgages.

But whether it's loans, credit cards, store cards,

or indeed a mix of all of these and more,

it can be very easy for what you owe to just get out of hand,

which is why a whole industry has sprung up

to help us manage our failing finances.

But watch out, because the advice and assistance on offer

is not always going to help.

Indeed, sometimes, as with the case of the people we're about to meet,

it may even do the very last thing you need,

and simply get you even deeper into debt.

It's estimated that some nine million Britons

have serious financial problems,

so it's perhaps little wonder

that many of those who can't see any alternative

turn to one of the 100 or so debt-management companies

that have sprung up,

claiming that they'll be able to sort everything out.

But, as Sharon Pickering and her husband Brendan

have realised too late,

sometimes that may only make things worse.

Their troubles began around 2005

when they started struggling to pay off what - initially, at least -

were relatively small credit card bills.

You think, "Oh, I need some clothes. I'll get a credit card, pay it off."

But it never happens. You can't do that.

There's always something else round the corner

that you need to pay off that's more crucial at that time.

As interest payments pushed up what the couple owed,

over the next few years,

their total debt spiralled to a terrifying £25,000.

So, when a friend recommended a business

called Compass Debt Counsellors to help,

it seemed that they'd found the perfect solution.

The company came up with a plan

that would see Sharon and Brendan pay £200 a month -

much less than the interest they were paying at the time -

and told the couple that their debt could be cleared

in as little as six years.

It was such a relief when they did that.

It just felt as though a weight had been lifted.

Compass was using some of the money for repayments

and banking the rest in a pot that, once it was big enough,

would be used to negotiate with creditors

to get the debt written off.

In the meantime,

Compass held that fund and paid itself an administration fee.

We didn't question it at all, cos it just seemed...

"Yeah, I think that might work."

And, for a while, it did seem to be working.

Each month, we had a statement

showing the amounts they'd paid to our creditors

and the amount that was going in this pot.

Over the years, this pot builds up

and they said that what they do then is contact the creditors

and say, "OK, she owes £1,000.

"We've got £400. Will you accept that?"

And the idea is they use that pot of money

to pay your creditors off at a lower amount.

The scheme also allowed flexibility

in case money from the savings pot was needed for major expenses,

and Sharon and Brendan twice took advantage of that,

though still accumulating a pot of £5,000.

But, to their horror, in March 2016,

Compass went into voluntary liquidation.

As the company fizzled out,

so too did their plan for paying off their debts.

I felt physically sick at that point.

To think that we'd trusted this company. They've got money...

We don't think we're going to get it back...

It was really upsetting.

To make matters worse,

because the company had been saving much of the couple's money

for a future pay-off rather than giving it all to the creditors,

Sharon and Brendan now owe even more money.

In fact, their debts have almost doubled over the last ten years.

Originally, when we started, we were probably in debt about £25,000.

To date, now, we're now in debt £48,000.

I felt totally robbed.

The job I paid them to do, they didn't do.

Ten years down line, we're in more debt than when we started.

The collapse of Compass Debt Counsellors

has left at least 100 more customers

in the same position as Sharon and Brendan,

owing more than they had when they called in a company

that was supposed to make things better.

And that's a particularly bitter pill for Craig Johnston to swallow.

A forklift truck driver from Yorkshire,

he'd been diligently paying into his pot with the company

for more than a decade, until, in February,

Compass called with some welcome news.

They rang me up and they said,

"Get in touch with your bank, stop payments immediately,

"because you've got enough in your pot to negotiate a settlement now."

Craig had a fund of £2,300

which Compass was confident would be enough to pay off his final debt.

I've had ten years of grief.

I knew, within five or six weeks, I'd be debt-free.

Everybody's paid off.

Then Compass crashed, taking Craig's money with it.

He's now taken out a loan in order to settle the debts

he'd believed he was finally about to clear.

I should have owed nothing to anybody. Not a penny.

And that's now not the case.

We wrote to Compass Debt Counsellors to try to find out what went wrong,

but we haven't received a response.

Kate Briscoe is the chief executive of consumer forum LegalBeagles.

She thinks anyone in financial difficulty should steer clear

of debt management companies altogether,

but she'd say that's especially the case

if it's one that - as Compass did -

relies on what's called the "war chest" model,

building up a pot to pay off the debts further down the line.

The war chest model is based around the idea

of full and final settlements.

And, yes, if you can offer your creditors

a full and final settlement, you will get a better deal -

if you owe £10,000,

but you haven't got 10,000 and you've got 5,000,

your creditor is much more likely to accept a settlement of £5,000,

full and final, and that'll be it.

But the money that Compass held in its customers' war chests

wasn't protected by the Government's

Financial Services Compensation Scheme,

meaning there was no way that they could get their lost money back.

While not all such companies operate the same way,

Kate is in no doubt that signing up to any debt management company

is high-risk and rarely the best or even simplest option.

I am not a fan of private debt-management companies,

because they take large fees for themselves

and they put their own operating needs

above the needs of the clients who are trying to repay their debts.

It is not uncommon,

for someone paying £300 into a debt-management plan monthly,

for at least £180 of that to be going to the debt-management plan.

So, in fact, you're actually reducing your debts far more slowly.

Kate says there are far better ways to get your debts under control

than relying on someone else to do it for you,

and the starting point should always be

contacting whoever you owe money to yourself

to discuss what options might be available.

As far as Kate's concerned, there's simply no need to pay a middleman.

Tackle your debts head-on to get YOURSELF out of the situation.

Don't rely on a third party to do it for you.

They won't do any better a job than you can yourself.

Organisations such as Citizens Advice and StepChange

have free online tools to help you calculate

how much money you can afford to pay your creditors,

and Citizens Advice website will even generate the letters

needed to try and negotiate manageable payments.

You can find more advice on how to tackle debt on our website...

Contacting her creditors directly

is already paying off for Sharon and Brendan.

They've been able to set up an affordable repayment plan

without the risks that cost them so dearly before.

I didn't realise how easy it would be.

They have been great and I know that the amount I pay per month

is coming off my debts straightaway.

So, it is brilliant and it's well worth doing.

Still to come on Rip-Off Britain...

Caught on camera -

the company that says it's there to help unhappy time-share owners

desperate to sell, but do its claims stack up?

That was really scary.

They had my believing the only way I'd ever get out of this

was by paying them the £5,100.

Once again, we've taken Rip-Off Britain out on the road.

-BBC. Rip-Off Britain programme.

-I recognised you!

And, this time, it's Manchester's Trafford Centre

that's host to our annual pop-up shop.

How are you, you gorgeous girl?

When Paul Hollyoak spotted our pop-up shop,

it was an ideal opportunity to discuss a problem

that's never far from his mind.

20 years ago, Paul's mum entered into an equity release scheme -

an arrangement where you borrow money

against the value of your home,

giving the lender rights to a share of the property's value

when you eventually sell up.

But Paul has since discovered just how bad a deal

that contract turned out to be.

Martyn James from the Financial Ombudsman Service

and solicitor Gary Rycroft joined forces to hear what happened.

They borrowed her £14,000 to do some home improvements.

The actual policy that she took out meant that,

once the house was sold, whether it be she moving or she passed away,

then the company would receive 75% of the value of the sale.

If your mum sold the property today and they got 75% of it,

how much would they be in line for?

Ballpark figure, I'd say about 140,000.

Incredible. So, that's actually ten times...

Yes, because she's got a four bedroom semidetached house.

If Paul's calculations are right,

that's a 1,000% return for the company

which initially lent the cash,

a pretty high interest rate by anyone's standard.

For me, this is a total rip-off and the money that the company

are going to receive when the house is sold, absolutely,

totally is way out of sync with what she actually borrowed.

Back in the 1980s, equity release grew in popularity.

But regulation of the market was limited.

These days, the rules are more stringent,

but it's the legacy of this first draft of deals that Martyn

and Gary are concerned about.

It's been reined in a lot since those bad old days,

but these old-style schemes have, of course, led to lots of problems

and I've seen it a lot in my office and I'm sure, Martyn,

you've seen it at the Financial Ombudsman Service.

Absolutely, and what we generally say when we're talking about

this is, it's not about the profit that your house would've made.

If your house has got too big, if the expenses are too much,

and you want to downsize, you're walking away with 25%

of your profit and what can you buy for that?

And that's the real issue here.

This was my point. My mum was 60-odd when she did this.

She's not...

She hadn't the financial background in terms of paying bills.

It was all done by my dad, which is old-school,

which it was years ago, and if she was aware that 75% of that

was going to the company, she'd be devastated.

Trouble is, all these years on, there's not always much

that adjudicators like the Financial Ombudsman can do to help.

I have to say, unfortunately,

mortgage lending wasn't regulated till 2005.

There is a slim chance that this firm may have been.

If it is, we can look at a complaint against them.

If it isn't, I would still encourage you to write down how you feel

your mum's been let down.

They could at least acknowledge the impact on your mother

and see what can be done,

even if it's just appealing to the better nature of the lender.

But thank you for telling us your story about this, Paul.

-You're welcome. Thanks for your time.

-Thank you.

Thank you very much indeed.

After filming, Martyn did investigate Paul's case but,

as he suspected, this particular scheme was not regulated

back when the money was lent,

which makes it difficult for Paul to find any redress.

And while today's equity-release schemes

do have to follow tighter rules,

the advice from Gary and Martyn is that it can prove a very expensive

way of borrowing, particularly if you live to a ripe old age,

so be wary.

And before taking the plunge, consider all other options.

Next into the shop were Rob and Michelle,

who were looking for advice from technology expert David McClelland.

Tell him what's been going on.

It's just a complete nightmare, basically.

I had a mobile phone and I woke up one day and the screen was black.

I couldn't see anything.

Michelle contacted the shop where she purchased the phone

only seven months earlier and it was sent off for repair.

But when the phone company got back in touch,

it wasn't with the resolution the couple expected.

They rang and they actually accused Michelle of damaging it

by just, basically, having it in her pocket for everyday...

-Caused by condensation.

-Damp and condensation from her leg.

-I've never heard of that.

-And neither had we.

They said that, for it to be mended,

somebody would have to foot the bill for £94.

Rob and Michelle refused to pay up and the phone was returned to them.

But left with a device she couldn't use,

Michelle decided to stop making the monthly payments on her contract,

in the hope that that might prompt some action.

And it did, but not in the way they'd wanted.

The phone company threatened to call in debt collectors.

-You were left in tears.

-Yeah, yeah, it were awful.

They've brought along all of their paperwork and right away

David spots an error in the way they've been treated.

The thing that gets me here is

that they're saying your phone is out of warranty.

It's not out of warranty, it's still in warranty, so they're incorrect.

Have you got some proof of the fact that it's still in warranty?

Yes, I've got the full receipt.

David's advice is for Rob and Michelle to put their complaint

in writing, making crystal clear what they're asking for.

You need to de-stress the situation,

write an official letter of complaint, don't go in store,

don't phone them up, and say, "I'd like to advise you that the

"phone is in warranty, I would like to repair or replacement, please."

Now, if they come back and for whatever reason they say "no",

then that means you're at deadlock.

We are agreeing to disagree.

A deadlock letter is your key to taking your complaint

to the next stage, an independent adjudicator

separate to the company involved.

In this case,

it would be the Ombudsman Services Communications, a regulated

organisation that looks at cases involving mobile phone companies.

And David thinks Rob and Michelle have a strong case.

Given the facts as you've told them to me, I find it very difficult to

understand how an alternate dispute resolution service would find

in anything other than your favour.

-Thank you for your help.

-Thank you so much.

Now, since the time-share bubble burst,

one of the most common complaints we hear about comes from people

who really did buy into that holiday dream, but who now feel the deal

wasn't quite as sunny as they thought it would be

when they signed up.

They're desperate to cut their losses and get rid of their

time-shares once and for all.

And with so many people in the same boat, it's led to a whole host

of companies springing up saying they can help.

But when one Rip-Off Britain viewer was contacted by a firm

offering to do just that - for a fee, of course -

something didn't quite seem right. So, she invited us along when

she went to meet them so we could see if her suspicions were correct.

A summer holiday really can feel like the antidote to all ills.

So, when, as a result of entering a competition, Heather Harvey

was offered the chance of a free one just weeks after her family business

had been forced to close, she jumped at the chance.

We weren't having a lot of luck, life wasn't going great for us

at the time and this opportunity came along, we thought,

"Maybe this is good, this could be great for us and the family."

So, in 2012, Heather and her husband, Rob,

and their two kids jetted off to

Tenerife to stay at a resort run by global travel firm

Club La Costa, a company that many, many moons ago,

long before this programme came along,

I briefly did a little promotion for.

But the family soon realised that the whole point

of their free holiday was a sales pitch to get them to buy

a time-share and sign up to full membership

of Club La Costa's holiday club.

We were to go for breakfast with one of the sales reps, so,

"All right, we'll go along to that."

And from there, it turned into the whole day - taking us around,

looking at all their resorts,

all these different packages and options.

And the rep came up with what initially seemed an

attractive way to pay for what was on offer.

We just said that we aren't in a position financially to do

anything like this...

They said, "Don't worry about that, we can sort something out for you,

"We can come up with a plan."

They said to us they would get the finance for us, they would also give

us a free holiday, they would give us a year of the maintenance, just

loads and loads of offers, really, for us to sign on the dotted line.

So, persuaded by the finance deal that this was something they

could afford after all, Heather and her husband signed up.

Somehow, miraculously, they came up with something, which kind of made

us think, "Well, maybe the things aren't so bad after all."

So, Heather and Rob agreed to a 20-year contract with Club La Costa,

with the whole cost of £18,180 covered by the finance agreement.

We were low. You know, we hadn't been in a good place

and it sounded like a way out of,

you know, something nice to look forward to.

But back home, the reality of what they signed up to came to look a lot

less attractive than it had in the Tenerife sunshine.

They agreed to pay just over £285 every month for 15 years,

which meant that, at the end, their £18,000 contract

would actually set them back a total of more than £51,000.

Add to that the extra costs of owning the time-share itself,

such as annual management fees of up to around £800,

and Heather felt much less happy with the deal.

I just felt we were stuck with this great, big, hefty finance agreement

that we couldn't get rid of.

We just thought, "We just want out of this."

But when Heather contacted Club La Costa, she certainly didn't

get the impression that the company would be prepared to release them

from the contract and with the bank unwilling to cut the finance

payments either, they weren't sure of the best way forward.

They stopped paying their admin and membership fees,

but keeping up the monthly finance payments remained a struggle, and,

over the next three years, Heather says she tried in vain to find

a way to get rid of a time-share that they simply couldn't afford.

Went online, looked at forums,

got in touch with lots of time-share advice centres.

Then, out of the blue, I had a phone call from ITRA.

ITRA, or International Time-share Refund Action,

says that they're there to help customers who feel that they'd

been mis-sold a time-share, can't afford to keep it and want out.

Heather was told that ITRA was considering a class action

against Club La Costa on behalf of potentially hundreds

of time-share owners, all hoping to get compensation

for being wrongly sold their time-shares in the first place.

It was exactly what Heather wanted to hear.

But ITRA's rep cut an initial meeting short because

Heather's husband wasn't there.

However, what she'd heard up to then

left Heather wondering if the company really can do

what it promises, so she got in touch with us.

We've featured companies offering to help

unhappy time-share owners before, and in our experience,

it's not always as simple as might be made out,

so when Heather asked if we'd like to accompany her

to a second meeting with ITRA,

we, of course, said yes.

A member of our team, wearing a hidden camera, went along, too,

posing as Heather's husband, Rob.

It didn't take long for ITRA's rep to cut to the chase.

Less than two minutes after walking through the door,

Heather was assured that she was in a prime position to join

the class action being planned against Club La Costa and

the rep seemed pretty definite that she could expect a big cash pay-out.

As for the cost of joining that class action...

It sounds like the answer to Heather's prayers,

especially when the rep passes on dire warnings about what he claims

will happen once Club La Costa calls in the debt collectors

to recover the management fees she's not paid for

for the last three years.

But Heather's told if she signs up with ITRA,

there'll be no debt collectors, no further finance payments

and, best of all, no time-share.

There is, however, one further detail,

because signing up with ITRA does come with a cost.

Heather will need to pay the company £5,100,

although it's not clear exactly what that's for.

At various points in the meeting,

she's a given differing explanations,

and more than once is told that

it's purely to cover the cost of getting rid of her time-share.

The rep explains that that would be done through what's called

a deed agent, which he's keen to stress is a good thing.

In fact, that's not strictly true,

because some time-share companies do have procedures that they claim

allow owners to surrender their time-shares.

That might leave owners out of pocket,

but they won't be liable for any future fees.

And even if Heather's particular case might be complicated

by the fact that she owes so much in finance,

the big no-no with what she's been told is that the law says

no company should ever take money for selling

a time-share before it's actually sold it.

One of our regular experts, Sylvia Rook,

is a lead officer at the Trading Standards Institute

and we asked her to take a look at the footage from Heather's meeting.

I do think that the whole presentation is very misleading

and you're left not understanding what it is that's being offered

or what your money is for.

From the off, one of the things that makes Silvia sceptical

about what's hearing is the speed with which Heather was assured

she'd definitely be able to join ITRA's apparent action

against Club La Costa.

The individual says to Heather that he's there to assess whether

she's got a claim, but he doesn't actually ask her any questions

about how the product was sold and then he goes on to say

she's definitely got a claim, but having looked through the video,

I don't actually know what that claim is

that he thinks that she's got.

Adding to the confusion,

throughout the meeting the agent makes the class action

and the sale of the time-share feel like one and the same thing,

but they're not, and there's actually

no reason that Heather should need to get rid of her time-share

to argue that it had been mis-sold.

You can take a class action

whilst you're still in possession of the property

and then you can give it back at the end of the case anyway.

But that isn't quite what the rep tells Heather and it certainly felt

to her that his main concern was getting her to pay that £5,100 fee.

The agent does tell Heather that she'll get her money back

if things don't go according to plan, but, of course,

that's something that he's confident won't happen.

As the meeting draws to a close, Sylvia's not sure signing up

would get Heather any closer to having her problem solved,

but it would leave her £5,100 further out of pocket.

I think there's an awful lot of confusion

at the end of this presentation.

When Heather's left, I don't think she'll actually know

what was being offered, what her rights were, whether she's part

of a class action or not and, if so, what that action is for.

I think Heather would have gone away thinking the only way that

she can get rid of the time-share and possibly get her money back

is using a deed agent and giving money to the company.

That is not the only way of getting rid of your time-share.

And Heather herself can see how easy it would be to leave the meeting

thinking there's only one way forward.

That was really scary.

They had me believing the only way I would ever get out of this

is by paying them the £5,100.

I could see how so many people would just,

if they had the money there and then, they'd go off and do it.

Well, we spoke to both ITRA and Club La Costa about all of this,

but with both of them dead set on rubbishing the other,

it's very easy to see why this kind of situation can be

so hard for consumers to navigate.

For its part, ITRA strenuously "denies any wrongdoing"

and stands by most of what its rep told Heather,

apart from a few details it accepted he hadn't been trained to say.

But it did rein back on the timeframe she'd been given

for the legal action, saying that while its lawyers are...

..joint action is just one option that's being considered.

It claimed its lawyers

have identified "numerous contractual breaches"

as well as "irresponsible lending of finance" and "misrepresentation".

ITRA went on to say its rep so quickly confirmed

that Heather had a claim

because of the information she had already provided

and the advice that its lawyers have given in similar cases.

As for that £5,100 fee,

it says that's "to cover a complete service",

including legal and administration fees and various other costs.

Clearly mindful of the law around this point,

it insisted that it doesn't resell time-share,

but assists with ownership relinquishment

so the regulations which prohibit taking money for selling

a time-share simply do not apply.

Meanwhile, Club La Costa was keen to stress it's a regulated business

with "absolute cancellation rights"

and that members who wish to exit are free to do so.

As such, there's no need to pay what it calls an excessive upfront fee...

It insisted that despite what ITRA's rep claimed, it doesn't use

debt collectors to recover unpaid fees or take members to court.

What's more, it said if there really were to be any legal action,

it would be...

..and while the holiday company disputed several details

of Heather's story, in particular,

claiming that its finance deals would be subject to the same checks

as they would be home,

it told us it has various options for how she and her family

could resume the membership "with the slate wiped clean"

on those unpaid fees.

Of course, whatever the truth of all of this,

there are plenty of other companies that offer to help people

like Heather get rid of their time-shares and Sylvia says

they should all initially be approached with caution.

At Trading Standards, we'd always warn people to be very careful

if you're approached by somebody who says they can sell your time-share.

If you're not careful,

you may find yourself putting good money after bad.

Don't get sucked into using a company

who's going to take money from you.

Do your own independent research, speak to a lawyer,

speak to Trading Standards before you part with any money

to make sure you know exactly what you're doing

and you've got the best possible advice.

You can find more about all of that on our website, it's...

If you've got a story you'd like us to investigate,

then you can get in touch with us via our Facebook page

"BBC Rip Off Britain".

There's our website bbc.co.uk/ripoffbritain

or e-mail...

..and, of course, you can send a letter to our postal address...

You know, there can't be too many of us who haven't, at some time

or another, needed to call on an expert for help.

Whether that's because, like the people that we've just met today,

we were looking for advice on a situation that we really found

hard to manage ourselves or to try and escape from something

that perhaps we now regret having signed up for in the first place.

But, indeed, as we've just heard,

because a company sounds like it knows what it's talking about,

doesn't mean that you shouldn't do your best to check them out

before agreeing to whatever it is they're offering.

Doing that bit of research really could stop you losing out,

-or, worse still, throwing really good money after bad.

-Absolutely.

Choosing the right expert can save you a whole lot of bother later on,

but, sadly, that's where we have to leave it the today.

You can find more nuggets of advice

on our website bbc.co.uk/ripoffbritain

or join the chat on our Facebook page,

but for now though,

thanks for joining us and till the next time from all of us, goodbye.

-Bye-bye.

-Bye-bye.