East Police Elections 2012

Everyone has a view on how the streets should be policed.

Crackdown on antisocial behaviour, more police on the beat, in just

over one week the way the police That is when we elect brand new

Police and Crime Commissioner has, and through them we will get the

chance to decide how the police deal with everything from under-age

drinking, graffiti, right through to gun crime.

To night we will explain the idea, look at how it might work, and

Millions of us across England and Wales are in -- being given a

choice. Who do we want to be a Police and Crime Commissioner? Who

do we want to decide a strategy on how safe the streets are and

safeguard victims? The new police and Crown Commissioners -- will the

new Police and Crime Commissioner has make a difference? Tonight we

will be looking at what these police elections mean for all of us.

In the east, the challenges facing police commissioners here. I have

been to Luton to look at community relations and we will be hearing

from the former Home Secretary Charles Clarke, who believes the

whole election process is So, in the next half-hour, we will

be looking at what difference these new police commissioners are going

to make. Later in the programme we will be asking, are the candidates

out there are going in the right direction? We have a representative

from Liberty,... What will they be responsible for? They will be able

to hire and fire a chief constable, they will have to deliver a five-

year police plan, and come up with the Budget, and they will also have

to regularly consult us. They may also be able to extend the

influence on how justice is administered through the court.

These characters will be managing multi-million-pound organisations,

and developing a plan that covers population of millions within one

police force area. It is a huge task. We have been trying to find

The police have to manage all types of crime, whether it is violent

crime in the city on antisocial behaviour in the countryside. The

Government's advertising campaign is hard hitting, but the new Police

and Crime Commissioner will have to tack into people's everyday

concerns. Police do not like speed tests, because they use it like a

motorway. The crime Commissioner's job was to listen to the public and

in the run-up to the elections, the candidates are right, making

promises to win votes. Once in office, they may discover how

complex policing is with conflicting demands.

In Middlesbrough, antisocial behaviour takes up most police time.

Ron has suffered 10 years of abuse, including two petrol bomb attacks

on his home. He knows exactly what he wants from the new Police and

Crime Commissioner. They need to sort the estate out, more police on

the beat, because without that people are just going to suffer

more. We need to target the people causing the trouble in the

communities. Police on the beat may reassure

people their communities are safe, but deploying them everywhere all

the time is impossible. Different crimes need different policing.

Take a 10 in North Yorkshire, where crime is relatively low. Bobbies on

the beat are not a priority, but recently the village post office

had its cast machines stolen. -- cash machine.

Two doors down from the Post Office, Karen's property has been broken

into twice. She is concerned that rural areas will be overlooked by

the Police and Crime Commissioner. My concern is that the police

commissioner might think that petty crime as it is labelled does not

matter, but it does matter to people, especially in rural areas.

If someone takes your trailer debate, or they break and you shed,

it affects those people. We pay taxes to, and the matter. It is up

to the crime Commissioner to listen and deliver policing relevant to

you. They need to do it with limited resources, but that is not

the only challenge. There is the issue of personalities. The new

crime Commissioner will set the priorities for a chief constable.

How will they get on and can the Eddery on how to achieve what the

public wants to see? A reduction in crime. Keith Halliwell as a former

chief constable, who knows how tough the jobless. He thinks the

job of the new Police and Crime Commissioner will be even harder.

It is challenging because the individual will need to understand

the police service and will need to know a lot about politics. They

need to know how to run an enormous organisation and the confidence in

the public -- of the public and the media. It is a virtually impossible

task for any individual to the bat. Strong words. Virtually impossible?

I do not think that is right, he is talking about managing the police

force. The chief constable will manage the police force. The Police

and Crime Commissioner is a political leader, looking at

decisions about priorities and identify policing needs. He will

not be managing the police force on a day-to-day basis. There is a

management team and assistants who are paid and were trained to do

that. There was a lot about change in police operations, but this is

not going to affect police operations except if the Chief

Constable wants them to change. It is about priorities, focusing on

people's needs, identifying them and making sure the police

constable meet them. It is power to the people. It is not, it is power

to another elected politician, which we have seen too much of in

policing. How can you argue against more democracy? Democracy has -- is

not just about elections. You also have to have the rule of law.

Politicians set the laws of, they decide what the police powers are,

and what the crimes are. But then you need independent professional

serving the whole community, whether they vote or not. Young,

Auld, minorities and majorities. I am worried that this charismatic

local politician, if that is who he is, I am worried that the

politician is going to be looking for headlines unpopular causes, and

not serving the tough needs of the entire community, no matter how

vulnerable they are. Lord Russell? I just do not agree. Members of

Parliament serve the whole of their communities when the unelected, --

when they are elected, and there may her serves the whole of London.

I do not think we need to worry about them neglecting their

community. But the public want the loll to be administered with uneven

hand, they do not want judges are police chiefs to be elected. We

spoke to the public last year about whether they wanted the system are

their preferred the existing system -- or they prefer the existing

system. 65% said they would rather stick with the status quo. Only 15%

thought they would trust the elected politician over the chief

constable under the existing system. You accept that it may be a very

low turnout, and that people do not yet understand the concept of this

role in one individual's hands. You are saying that is the elections

after this one that will be a really significant. So-called will

the next four years be, a pilot? it will be when they begin to make

a difference in their community, and members of the communities

begin to realise that he is someone who can make a difference to their

life. Now, people have never heard of them, they regard crime has

something done to them, not something they can control. But if

he is not going to interfere in operational policing, what is the

great transformation he is going to do? I believe in inspirational

leadership. I believe a police commissioner can get a more

effective police force by inspiring and leading and supporting the

chief constable. I do not see this as a conflict between the Chief

Constable... Let's talk about one of the biggest police cover-ups in

criminal history, Hillsborough. Jenny, you lost your two lovely

girls. I wonder if you had had a Police and Crime Commissioner there,

he was answerable to good folks if your voice wasn't being heard

for so long? The current system does not seem to have worked for us.

Certain people should have been suspended because of allegations

about them. It just did not happen. So do you think a Police and Crime

Commissioner, because he is answerable to people, he or she

would have been better for you? would hope so. I would hope there

would be more transparency, more accountability from them because

they were elected. Peter, as a former top policemen yourself, more

transparency, more accountability. Is this a real possibility?

depends. Politicians are not known for opening up and being

transparent just before an election, so there would be other levers.

There are one or two facets of the new role, police authorities do

meet in public meetings, so they have public meetings. Most of the

meetings with a police and on their own. Somehow the decision making in

public made go, and there is a big bonus on the individual who takes

on the role to make sure the public sees the decision being taken, done

in smoke-filled rooms. There could be some horrendous personality

clashes as well. That is a distinct possibility. Most police chiefs

will want to make the relationship work. Jenny? I can hear what you're

saying. I did not realise it would not be in an open forum, where

decisions would be made. That is quite worrying. That is not good

for transparency. Coming back to the accountability, being elected

by the public... And I agree that there should be accountability and

what happened with Hill's there are is one of the greatest policing

scandals of my life in. Ultimately it was people power has

forced change here. Isn't this an expression of democratic law?

but there were others who did not deal with the situation. Are you

concerned that the Police and Crime Commissioner may not share your

liberal agenda? Not at all. This is a constitutional point I am making.

It is not about any agenda, it is about saying that you need checks

and balances in a democracy, and I would no more have an elected judge,

and I think you could policing in the hands of elected politicians

they do not necessarily serve the whole community, just the most

popular bets. Can we have a brief final comment? I see it differently.

This is a job which concerns the allegation of scarce resources,

which is a role for politicians. -- a role. Policing resources are very

limited, and someone has to make that decision. Is it a chief

constable who makes the decision or a freely elected Police and Crime

Commissioner who has to defend his actions every day. The local media

will need to make sure this is transparent. Thank you for now.

Later, we will be looking at what the candidates themselves say that

there are going to do if they are elected. What their priorities are.

These commissioners will have a Hello from Fairhall in the village

of Health's there in Bedfordshire. This dates back to the 15th century

and this room was a court room for more than 500 years. The local

Abbey would have presided over everything from petty thieves to

disputes over weights and measures. We are discussing crime and

punishment in the 21st century. One of the biggest challenges facing

police today is community relations. We will start down the road from

here in Luton. Luton is home to about 200,000

people. Just under a third of those who live here are from black and

ethnic minorities. Historically there has been unrest and mistrust

between some of the communities living here, but people are working

together to try and encourage better relations. What is the most

important thing and it begins at our? Respect! Yes. This is blood

fell road part and football coaching organised by the people

who also run the multi-faith Football League. It has always been

about bringing communities together, especially in our town over the

last few years. We were finding that even in the local football,

there were a lot of teams playing, but not together. We invited lots

of different members of the community and ask them to bring

teams along. The beauty of the tournament was that afterwards

there was the opportunity to sit down and talk and have a

conversation about something they had in common, which is football.

We also build relationships. While lots of people are working to make

things better, whoever becomes Police Commissioner for

Bedfordshire faces real challenges. No surrender, no surrender, no

surrender! In recent years there have been extreme right wing Martin

cheers, clashes with the police and angry demonstrations by some

Muslims against British troops. Set against this conflict, that

multi-faith football project is a positive initiative. Can playing

football really make a difference? Vicky is, we all read something in

common and football is one of those key areas we can bring communities

together. I like to think that in 15 or 20 years, these young people

will still have friendships. vast majority of people living in

Luton are law-abiding and whoever becomes the first Commissioner for

Bedfordshire will meet to find a way of dealing with the noisy

minority. There are five candidates hoping to

become police and crime commissioner for Bedfordshire. The

list is on the screen now. They represent the British Freedom Party,

Lib Dems, Labour, Conservatives and one independent.

We take Luton as an example, can one person be all things to the

whole of that community which is so diverse? I think they certainly can.

There's a very good advantage to this. In future people will have

one person, their champion, independent from the police, that

they can talk to about concerns they have. Even come forward with

ideas of improvement. I know from being a member of parliament, I

represent all of the people in my community regardless of fuse or

background. Not all candidates might in this. We will see what

happens on election day and what candidates we get, but they are all

required to. They will have to represent the whole community and

also they will have duties to perform in that role. I agree with

the aspirations that Rebecca set out. It is the job of the police

from every single constable to have relationships with all sections of

communities in a positive way. That has been a police reform programme

for the last 15 to 20 years. That is the real challenge in

communities like which you showed on film. I don't think the police

commissioner will add to that, but it is crucial that the it are the

person that Rebecca described. Isn't there feeling in some parts

of society now that under police authorities, the police have been

soft on crime and soft on the causes of crime? I don't think that

history. It is the accountability of that structure and there are

legitimate questions of whether you can do it better, but the most

important issue is the independent judgment of the police are they

authority to the law of the land and not an elected politician.

Boris Johnson is the current commission that and he has

demoralise the whole police force in London and put political

intervention writing to the centre of police forcing in London.

would hope to get the right people coming forward. Does it bother you

that when we asked the candidates to name the Chief Constable, two of

the four couldn't do it? Unsurprised by that, but I think

this is a new election system for a new role. It is a huge improvement

from what we had before. We previously had authorities in local

areas which are 17 appointed local councillors, no one has known who

they are all attended meetings and not known he to speak to if they

had a problem. Perhaps they could make a suggestion on improving. I

think that in future this will be a real step forward for local

communities that they have someone who will champion their concerns.

Is this to mark a sea in action? -- democracy in action. There could be

massive confusion over who could run or not run. And direct

intervention by political parties in the process for what is

supposedly independent state of affairs. I think it has been

extremely badly organised. I don't think this is a good idea because

democracy is about information and knowing things. I did not know that

account that you just mentioned. I think that is truly shocking and a

symptom of how these elections have been organised. Thank you both very

much. Let's give you an idea of the chief

constables and the counties that their working. We will start with

Essex which is the biggest force in Essex which is the biggest force in

the region. As you can see, we have about 3000 officers and a

population of about 1.7 million. Of course it is a commuter county, it

has to ports and to airports. Suffolk, on the other hand, is more

rural. Almost 1200 officers serving a population of about 700,000.

Priority is there include capping prostitution in the wake of the

murders of five sex workers' backing 2006. In Norfolk we have

about 1500 officers looking after 850,000 people. According to the

Home Office, it is the safest Home Office, it is the safest

county in England. If you want more details of the people standing to

become the police and crime commissioner in your area please go

to the website. From all of us here, good night.

They are 100 and nothing to do candidates standing in these

elections. Each has to release a statement about what they want to

achieve. We have all of them here. Some mention no military background,

some talk about their former role with the police authority and here

are the actual words they use. The bigger they are, the more they

commonly appear. Crime, hundreds of mentions. Out of 55,000 words, only

30 uses of the word alcohol. Is that the right emphasis? One phrase

that is quite common is anti-social behaviour. That is the sort of

everyday low level nuisance crime that so many of us suffer from.

Ashley did suffer terribly from it before. Also you even got to the

stage are setting up a CCTV camera. We will have a look at that footage

now. Talk us through it, a guy in lobbing stones. Own controllable.

We kept going to court and trying to get him evicted. In the end life

problem is the police do seem to be, they are not proactive, they are

reactive. A crime would happen and they can't do that anymore. Pity

you think the police crime commissioner would galvanise them?

In principle it is a good idea to have someone independent because

authorities mark their own homework all the time. I don't think they

have enough powers. I think they need more power to audit cases. As

soon as the case has gone on for a year, they look at case management

and what is going wrong with it. They start to get other people to

look at what is going on. This is not just about budgets, it is about

understanding what is going wrong, why things are ineffectual? Way

numerous crimes are committed and people are not caught. This appears

an issue for year, not enough power? There's a certain amount of

flexibility, isn't there? I am not sure they need more power. I think

their job is to identify policing needs and to deal with their chief

constables and the voluntary organisations and the victims'

groups, to meet policing needs. I don't think any power, they need

leadership. I totally disagree because the whole problem is, when

you get beneath the surface of what one chief constable says and all

the other people that fob you off, you need to get to the very basics

of why that cases such a problem. They need to go in and look at the

case management, he is doing what, why the evidence collection is not

good enough or why you are having multiple crimes in areas over and

over again and no one actually does anything. Will a man or woman who

would be successful could say, right, I will do this for years,

and they will get elected. can't have the same mistake, saying

streets targeted time after time. Anyone who is any good will have a

map on his wall and will no weekly... All her walk... And will

know it what happens. There will come in and say, why have we got

another burglary or whatever on this estate? That is quite a

different story. This is a key point that some have raised. What

if nobody votes there. You are former gang member helping people

get out of gangs now. People affected by gangs do not live in

the leafy areas which voting these elections so are you going to be

listened to? The they you go. This is what I fill the danger is in the

community is that people don't know how to communicate with people in

these communities. It can't be just A1 of thing where after six months

no one knows who to go to. T think someone will say they will help you

or do you think they will get those from elsewhere with populist

messages? If there is support within the communities, they will

want to help and want to change the community. If they don't know how,

then needs to beat someone there that they can actually go to and

speak to to try and get these issues tackled. T think they could

get tackled with these police and crime commissioners? Definitely. I

think the more we come together as a collective, the more we will

solve the problem. Thank you all very much. That is just half-an-

hour. On the radio you can hear the sighs of some of these issues. If

you want to know more about the candidates, BBC Radio will be