South Police Elections 2012

Everyone has got a view on how the street should be policed. Crackdown

on anti-social behaviour, more police on the beat. In just over a

week, the way the police operate will change for ever. That is when

we elect brand-new police and crime commissioners. Through them, we

will get the chance to decide how policing takes place. Tonight we

will explain the idea, look at how it might work and discussed the

issues that affect you. This is Millions of us across England and

Wales are being given a choice. Who do we want to be Our police and

crime commissioner? Who will decide the strategy for the safe nest of

our streets? Why should we vote next week in these controversial

elections? Will the new police and Crown Commissioners really will

make a difference. What effect will the changes have where you live?

Tonight, or we will have a look at what be elections min. In the south,

will restorative action make criminals less likely to offend.

There will also be a run-down of the candidate and the issues they

face in your local force. In the next half-an-hour, we will

look at the difference these new police commissioners are going to

make. Later in the programme, we will be asking whether the

candidates are going in the right direction. What will these Police

Commissioner's actually be responsible for? For a start, they

will be able to hire and fire a Chief Constable. They will need a

five-year plan and they will have to come up with the Budget. They

will also have to regularly consult us in the way they've police the

streets. Then maybe able to influence the way punishment is

meted out in the courts. These commissioners will be managing

multi-million pound budgets and Policing huge areas. It is a huge

task. The police have to manage all types

of crime, whether that is violent crime in the city, or anti-social

behaviour in the countryside. The government advertising campaign is

hard hitting, but the new police and crime commissioner will have to

tap into people's everyday concerns. The gangs that hang around. They

need to do speed tests. The stretch of road Naomi's Lukla motorway.

crime commission a's job is to listen to the public and in the

run-up to the elections, candidates are out making promises. However,

once in office, they may realise how difficult policing is. In

Middlesbrough, anti-social behaviour takes are most of the

police's time. This man has suffered 10 years of abuse,

including two petrol bomb attacks on his home. He knows what he wants

from the new police and crime commissioner. More police on the

beat because without that, people will suffer more. We need to target

the people who are causing problems within the communities. Police on

the beat may reassure people their communities are safe, but deploying

them everywhere all the time is impossible. Different crimes need

different Policing. In North Yorkshire, police and on the beats

are not a priority, but recently, the shop had its cash machine

stolen. Two doors down from the Post Office, this woman's property

has been broken into twice. She is concerned that rural areas will be

overlooked by the new police and crime commissioner. A my concern is

about the new police and crime commissioner might think that petty

crime does not matter, but it does, especially in rural areas. If

somebody takes your trailer or your bike or break into your shed, it

affects you and we pay our taxes as well and we matter. So it is up to

the crime police and crime commissioner to listen and deliver

Policing relevant to you, and do it with limited resources. But that is

not the only challenge. There is the tricky issue of personalities.

The new crime police and crime commissioner will set the

priorities for the Chief Constable. Can they are green on what the

public wants to see - a reduction in crime. It is a challenging. The

individual will need to understand the police service and have a lot

of political knowledge. They will need to know how to run an enormous

organisation and also have the confidence of their staff and the

public. It is virtually impossible. Strong words there - a virtually

impossible task. I do not think that is right. He is talking about

managing the police force. The chief constable will manage the

police force. The PCC is the leader, a political leader. He would try to

identify policing needs, but he will not be managing the force on a

day-to-day basis. There is a chief constable and assistance. That is

their job. There was a lot at the beginning of this programme about

changing police operations. This will not affect that, unless the

Chief Constable wants them to change. It is about priorities and

focusing on people's needs. Identifying them and making sure

the Chief Constable meets them. Visit power to the people? It isn't.

It is power to another politician. We have seen enough interference.

But it is about democracy. It is not just about democracy and

elected politicians are not the only people with authority in a

democracy. Of course, politicians set the laws, but there needs to be

some kind of separate body. I am worried that this charismatic local

politician, if that is who he is, and it will normally be he, I am

worried this politician will be looking for the headlines and the

popular causes and not serving the tough needs of the entire community,

no matter how vulnerable they are. I just do not agree. I think

members of Parliament serve the whole of their communities when

they are elected. I think the mayor says the whole of the community of

London. I don't think we need to worry about PCCs and neglecting

part of their communities. We've polled the public last year about

whether they wanted this new system, or whether they preferred the

existing system with the chief constable and a border police

authority and 65 % of the people we polled said they would rather stick

with the status quo. Only 15 % thought they would trust the

elected politician over the chief constable. You are on the record as

saying it may be a low turnout. You have also said people don't

understand the concept of this role in one individual's hands. You're

saying it will be be elections after this one that will be

significant. So what will the next four years beat - a pilot? It will

be a period when beat PCCs make a difference in their communities and

people will start to realise that their presence will make a

difference to their lives. If he is not going to interfere in Policing,

what great influence we have in people's lives? I believe a PCC can

get a better police force by inspiring and leading and

supporting the chief constable. let us talk about the practical and

one of the biggest police's corrupt in police history. You lost your

two girls in Hillsborough. You have been stoic campaigners. I just

wonder if you a police and crime commissioner there, would you have

felt so voiceless? The current system did not work for us. Some of

the decisions that the local police authorities are not making have not

worked for us, like certain people should have been suspended because

of allegations about them. It just didn't happen. So you think Ed

police and crime commissioner, because he is answerable, could be

kicked out? Hopefully. I hope there will be more transparency and

accountability because they are elected. You are a former top cop.

More transparency and accountability - is it something

that can be done? I do not think it is a given that will happen. You

will have to have other leaders to relieve the situation that revolves

around Hillsborough. There are one or two facets of the new role.

Police authorities do at least have open public meetings. Most of the

decisions that will be taken between the chief constable and a

police and crime commissioner will be made in a room with a cup of

coffee, on their own. Some of that decision making in public might go

and there is an onus on the individuals who take on this role

to make sure the public transparently see the decisions

that are being taken. There could be some horrendous personality

clashes as well, couldn't they? That is a possibility, but most

people will want to make that relationship work. I can hear what

you are saying. I did not realise that it would not be in an open

forum. That is quite worrying. That is not good for transparency, is

it? A comeback to the accountability of been elected by

the people... There should be accountability and what happened at

Hillsborough is one of the greatest police scandals. They should be

accountable to the law. It was people power that forced change

here. Isn't this an expression... but there were generations of

elected politicians, Home Secretaries and others who did not

deal with this situation. Are you concerned that a police and crime

commissioner might not share your liberal agenda? Not at all. I am

making a constitutional point. It is about saying that you need

checks and balances in a democracy and you need independent people as

well as political people and I would no more have an elected judge,

if you have elected judges, Barabbas always walks free. I see

it differently. This is a job which relates to, which concerns the

allocation of scarce resources. Policing needs are infinite.

Someone is to make a decision. Is it a Chief Constable or a freely

elected PCC, who has to defend his actions. And every day, the local

media will insure this is transparent. Thank you all very

much for now. Later we will be looking out what the candidates

themselves say they are going to do if they are elected. What their

priorities are. These commissioners are going to have a huge effect on

Welcome to the Old Jailhouse in Arundel. It's right under the

former courtroom, a reminder of a time when justice was maybe a bit

more summary than it is today. Here in the South, we're going to be

looking at the effects of crime and what the new commissioners can do

about that. Should victims get the chance to confront the criminals

who have harmed them? First though, let's take a look at who is asking

for our vote in the six police force areas in our region. Thames

Valley is the largest non- metropolitan force in England and

Wales, covering three counties and 196 miles of motorway. There's a

range of crime across diverse areas from urban Slough to the

Oxfordshire countryside. Two independents have dropped out of

the PCC race, saying it's too tough to fight the party machine. But two

remain along with Lib Dem, Tory, Although largely rural, Dorset has

its fair share of crime. Earlier this year, the force was under

pressure after a spate of murders and unexpected deaths. One of the

first jobs for the PCC will be finding a new Chief Constable, the

previous stepped down just weeks ago, but not before warning that

the force has stripped out the back office savings it can and budget

cuts would soon have to hit the front line. So a tough job for the

Lib Dem, Labour, Tory or independent who wins. Sussex, home

to 1.5 million people in rural communities, urban developments and

seaside towns. As well as usual duties, police here have to tackle

immigration, trafficking and terrorism at the UK's second

biggest airport, Gatwick. These competing priorities alongside a

�52 million budget cut, will be a challenge for the new PCC, whether

it's the independent, UKIP, Labour, Lib Dem or Conservative who wins.

Hampshire Police have dealt with cuts by closing police stations and

sharing services with nearby Thames Valley. Chief Constable Alex

Marshall has run a tight ship, but he's moving on to bigger things,

leaving the top cop job open for Two independents are battling Tory,

Lib Dem, Labour and UKIP candidates for the job of managing the force's

�300 million budget. Each of the major parties and UKIP are fielding

candidates in Wiltshire and Surrey and two independents are standing

in each county. So, in total, there are 33 people fighting for six PCC

roles across the South. A lot of information to take in there. If

you want to find out more about any of the candidates you could be

voting for, there is a special BBC website with all the details. One

area the PCCs will have some power over is victim support. But how

will they choose to use it? At the heart of every crime is a victim

and it will be the PCC's job to make sure they are not overlooked.

They will have to consult with victims before making decisions

about policing and they will control budgets for victim support

services. That is one of the reasons why we'd encourage people

to go out and vote because it will make a massive difference. This

vote on 15th November means you're potentially voting for local

support services in your area. this year's Conservative Party

Conference, the Home Secretary went further, giving the commissioners

powers to get victims directly involved in a criminal-justice

system. An important new duty on police and crime commissioners, to

make sure that victims have a greater say in the punishment of

people responsible for anti-social behaviour. In Newbury and Berkshire,

they are already trialling this idea. Residents here are being told

about a pilot scheme where victims of low-level crimes that would not

usually go to court can come face- to-face with those who have wronged

them. Restorative justice is about bringing the victim and offender

together so that the offender can take responsibility for what they

have done, hear the impact of the crime on the victim, give the

victim a voice and together try and repair the harm that's been caused.

The Newbury scheme is the kind of thing the PCC in your area might

want to introduce. Or they might not. From November 15th, they will

have the power to decide not just about policing, but also what is

best for victims of crime. I am joined now by Rachel who had

her home in Worthing burgled last year and by John Wright who's the

chairman of Sussex Neighbourhood Watch. Rachel, first, you met the

man who burgled your home. What was that like for you? Did it make a

difference? I believe it did. We went and visited him in prison and

we were able to explain the impact of his crime on us as well as

asking some questions that were unanswered for us. I believe that

being part of that process, as did the other victims that attended,

that it made him question his offending and is likely to prevent

him from offending in the future. Is that the kind of scheme you

would like the police and crime commissioners to do more of? Is

this what you want to see from then? Absolutely. Evidence shows

restorative justice is extremely successful and is something that

should be invested in and will help to reduce reoffending of offenders.

John, Rachel obviously talks from the end result, from the victim of

crime, but you want to see crime prevention, that is your business.

What do you think the commissioner can do for you? The commissioner

can... Because Theresa May has stopped all of the budgets, or

halved the budgets, there is going to be a problem in the beginning

for them anyway in costs. Neighbourhood Watch is a free

organisation. It does not cost anything. We have 126,000 members

plus in Sussex. It will not cost anything. Therefore, crime

prevention, it has got to be an absolute bonus from their point of

view because it is not going to cost anything. For the first time,

the commissioner is going to control all of the budgets for

organisations like yours and also for victim Support. Will that make

it easier because you will have one person to go to and talk to? If we

are just going to the PCC, yes. But bearing in mind there are going to

be other organisations that will want funding as well or part of

some monetary value to put on to what they are looking for. Are you

worried you're going to be competing for the same pot of

money? We are all going to be competing because whilst we are

free and because the Home Office budgets have been cut, there are no

leaflets on crime prevention any more, we have to produce our own

which at the moment the police can do for us or local councils. But

that is going to stop. We need some help. From a victim perspective,

the police and crime commissioner will probably be focusing on a lot

of what communities want. Are you worried the victims might get

overlooked? I hope that would not be the case. I believe they really

need to focus on understanding what victims are saying, victims having

a voice in the work that they do. And making sure that services are

safeguarded with any budget restraints. And what do you think

they can do about that? What do you want to see? Budgets are tight.

Aside from funding, what can they do? I think it is really important

that in Sussex the police and crime commissioner is absolutely clear

about what our crime looks like and what services are absolutely needed

in Sussex. I think making sure we are smarter at targeting the right

services for us in our local area has got to be a good thing.$$WHITE

John, do you think this is going to make any difference at all? I think

it will because you have got a situation where the PCC must be

sitting in with the divisional commander or the chief constable on

a regular basis finding out what the methods are or the strands of

crime are happening and what they are doing about it. There would be

an input. What can they do about the fear of crime in communities?

That is one of the big problems, people being worried about their

local neighbourhoods. This is where Neighbourhood Watch comes into the

fore. We have got ears and eyes of the public. And all of the members

we have got, we are like a family. People are they must realise that

you're not alone. There are organisations out there that can

help you. Victim Support. We help the vulnerable. You have got loads

of people out there. Local councils will support. There is always

somebody. Don't ever feel alone. The PCC has got to get involved in

all of that. Rachel, in one word, tell us what you want from the

commissioner. I want them to focus on reducing crime so that we are

not victims in the first place. Rachel, John, thank you for being

with us. That's it from us that the Old Jailhouse in Arundel. Back to

Nicky. There are 193 candidates standing

in these elections and each has to produce a statement about what they

want to achieve. I have all of them here. Some mention them military

backgrounds. Some talk about their former role with the police

authority. Here are the words they used more often. The bigger they

are, the more they appear. Crime, obviously. 60 references to drugs.

Out of 55,000 words, only 30 uses of the word alcohol when 40% of

violent crime is fuelled by alcohol. One phrase that is quite common is

anti-social behaviour, 117 times. That is the everyday low level

nuisance crime so many of us suffer from. You have suffered terribly

from it. And also you even got to the stage of setting up CCTV. We

will have a look at some of that footage. Talk us through it.

Uncontrollable. Targeting us repeatedly. We kept going to court

to get them evicted. In the end, life became unbearable. I think the

big problem is the fact the police do seem to be not proactive. A

crime would happen and they cannot do that anymore, the police...

police and crime commissioner elected by the likes of yourself

would galvanise them? In principle, it is a good idea that you have

someone who is possibly independent because the authorities to mark

their own homework all the time. But I do not think they have enough

powers. They need power to order cases. As soon as a case has gone

on for a year, they are MANAGEMENT, what is going wrong, they start to

get other people look at what is going on. It is not just about

budgets, it is about understanding why things are ineffectual. Why are

numerous crimes committed against people and the people are not

caught? Why our prisons not sorting them out? Not enough power. Lord

Wasserman, this is a good lead for you, not enough power? There is a

certain amount of flexibility, a bit of legroom for more powers to

revolve. I think their job is to identify as I said before policing

needs and to deal with their chief constables and voluntary

organisations and the victims' groups to meet policing needs. I do

not think they need power, I think they need leadership. Tell him why

you think they do. I totally disagree because the whole problem

is when you get beneath the surface of what one chief constable is

saying and all of the people fobbing you off, you need to get to

the very basics of why that cases such a problem and they need to go

in and a cat case management and who is saying and doing what. Why

is evidence collection not good enough? Why are you having notable

crimes in areas, the same people being targeted? -- multiple crimes.

The policeman used to go -- the commissioner would say, I am going

to do this for you and he would be elected. Anyone who is any good as

a PCC will have a map on his wall and will no weekly, daily, where

the crimes are. I have seen this and I know what happens. He will

come in and say to the Chief Constable, why have we got another

burglary or whatever, robbery, on this estate? Quite a different

story from investigating a different... Shami Chakrabarti made

an important point. You are a former gang member. People affected

by gangs disproportionately live, shall we say, they do not live in

the e-fit areas that road in these elections. Will you be listen to?

This is what I feel the dangers are. People will feel, how are you going

to communicate with these people? The commissioner cannot go down

there just once. Then after six months, people do not know who to

go to. Do you think someone standing will get the votes from a

sweat all will come to you? The perhaps more obvious populist

message? If there is support within the communities, the communities

will want to help and chains. If they do not here to go to, there

needs to be a youth worker, someone there that they can go to and speak

to on a regular basis to tackle these issues. Do you think they

could be tackled with police and crime commissioners? Definitely.

Their knees to the need to move -- more communication. The more we

come together, the more we will solve the problem. Thank you very

much indeed. That is just half-an- hour and already you can see the

size of some of the issues we are talking about. BBC local radio

across England will be holding debates from 9am tomorrow so 2 in