West Midlands Police Elections 2012

Everyone has got everyone how the streets should be policed Foster up

more bobbies on the beat. In just over a week's time the way the

police operate were changed for ever faster -- will change ever.

That is when we elect new Police and Crime Commissioners are through

their we will have a chance to decide how the police deal with

everything from under-aged drinking, and graffiti right through to gun

crime. We're going to explain the idea, look at how it might work and

discuss the issues that affect you. This is police elections, time to

Millions of us across England and Wales are being given a choice. Who

do you want to be our police and crime Commissioner? Could do we

want to decide the strategy for has saved our streets are, to deal with

victims. Why should we go to the polls next week and a cold November

night in these controversial elections? Then you Police and

Crime Commissioners really make a difference? What effect will the

changes have way you have? We will be looking at what these police

elections mean for all of us. He and the West Midlands, I will be

finding out what people think of crime and the police. I will be

hearing the sorts of things they would like these new commissioners

to tackle once they have been elected.

In the next half-an-hour we're going to be looking at what

difference these new police commissioners are going to make and

laze in the programme we will be asking at the crop of candidates

out there going in the right direction. Guests tonight include

Shami Chakrabarti who thinks it is a disastrous idea. Lord Wasserman,

who helped to design the plan, is here. But what will these police

commissioners be responsible for? They will be able to hire and fire

a chief constable. They have to deliver a five-year police and

crime plan and come up with the Budget. They will have to regularly

consults us about the way the police our streets and they might

also be able to extend their influence into have justice is

administered through the courts. These characters will be managing

multi-million-pound organisations and developing a plan that covers

populations of millions. It is a huge task. Riz Lateef has been

trying to find out what sort of things they will be doing.

The police have to manage all types of crime whether that is violent

crime are the city or anti-social behaviour in the countryside. The

government's advertising campaign is hard-hitting but then you police

and crime commissioner will have to tap into people's everyday concerns.

The gangs that hang around especially the part. More police.

The crime commissioner's job is to listen to the public and in the

run-up to the elections of candidates -- the candidates are

out making their promises. Once in office they may discover just how

complex policing is with conflicting demands.

Here in Middlesbrough anti-social behaviour takes up most police time.

Hello. This man has suffered 10 years of abuse including two petrol

bomb attacks on his home. He knows exactly what he wants from the new

police and crime commissioner. -- Police and Crime Commissioner.

need more police on the beat otherwise people will suffer more.

We need to target the people. Police on the beat may reassure

people their communities are safe but deploying them everywhere all

the time is impossible. Different crimes need different policing.

Crime here is relatively low. Bobbies on the beat aren't exactly

a priority. Recently the village post office had its cash machine

stolen so people around here still wants their fair share of policing.

Two doors down from the police office, this property has been

broken into twice. They are concerned are rule let us went

rural areas will be overlooked. -- they are concerns in rural areas

will be overlooked. They might think petty crime does not matter

but it does matter to people especially in rural areas. If

somebody takes your trailer or your bike or they break into your sheds,

it does affect those people and we pay our taxes as well. We matter.

It is up to the crime Commissioner to listen and deliver policing

relevant to you. They need to do it with limited resources but that is

not the only challenge. There is the issue of personalities. The new

crime commissioner was set the priorities for a chief constable.

How will they get on and can they agree on how to achieve what the

public wants to see? A reduction in crime. This man is a former chief

constable. He knows how tough that job is. He thinks the job of the

new police and crime Commissioner - - Police and Crime Commissioner

will be harder. The individual will have to understand the police

service and have a lot of political nous. They won the to know how to

run an enormous organisation and they will have to have the

confidence of the public and media. It is an impossible task. Strong

burr -- words there. A virtually impossible task.

He is talking about managing the police force. The chief constable

will manage the police force. The PCCs will look at decisions about

priorities. They will try to identify policing needs. He is not

going to be managing the force and a day-to-day basis. There is a

chief constable their, their assistants. They are paid for that.

There's a lot about changing police operations, this is not going to

change police operations unless the Chief Constable wants them to

change. It is about priorities, it is about focusing on people's needs

to and making sure the Chief Constable meets them. It is power

to the people. It is not, it is power to another elected politician.

This is more democracy. Democracy isn't just about having elections.

An elected politician isn't the only person with authority. You

have to have the rule of law. Politician said the laws, they

decide what the police powers are but then you need independent

professionals who serve the whole community whether they vote or

don't. Young, old, minorities as well as popular majorities. I am

worried his charismatic local politician, if that is who he is,

and it will be he rather than a police authority that is more

diverse. They are very few female standing for so up I'm wedded his

politician is looking for the headlines and the popular courses.

I am wedded. I just don't agree. Members of

Parliament serve the whole of their communities when they are elected.

I think the mayor serves of the whole community of London. I don't

think we need to worry about PCCs neglecting part of their

communities. The public want the law to be administered with an even

hand. We poll the public last year about whether they wanted this new

system or whether they prefer the existing system with Chief

Constable and a broader police authority. 65% said they would

rather stick with the status quo. Only 15% thought they would trust

an elected politician over the chief constable. Lord Wasserman UN

on the record as saying it will be in low turnout. US saying it is the

elections after this and that are going to be significant. What other

next four years going to be? A pilot was map no, they are when the

PCCs start to make a difference in their communities. Members of those

communities begin to realise this person is somebody who can make a

difference to their lives. Some -- suddenly you find whereas now

people have never heard of PCCs, they regard crime as something done

to them. If he is not going to interfere in operational policing

what is this great chance that -- transformation he is going to do?

believe that a commissioner can have an effective police force by

inspiring and leading and supporting the chief constable.

This is not a conflict. This tock about the practicalities. -- must

talk about the practicalities. Let's talk about Hillsborough. I

just wonder if you had a police and crime Commissioner there who was

answerable to the good folks like yourself if you would have felt a

boisterous for quite so long? current system does not seem to

have worked for us. The decisions that the local police authorities

and not making have not worked for as. Certain people should have been

suspended because of allegations about them. It did not happen.

think a Police and Crime Commissioner, because he is

answerable, he or she would have been a better situation for you.

would hope so. I would hope for more transparency. I hope there

would be more accountability because they were elected. As a

former top cop, or transparency? More accountability? I think it

does depend. Politicians are not unknown to decide not to be

transparent just before an election. I do not think that is a given. You

will not -- need more levers. There are one of two facets of the new

role, police authorities do at least meet in open public meetings.

Not with a huge audience, perhaps, but they are a public meeting. Most

of the decisions that will be taken between the chief and the Police

and Crime Commissioner are going to be taken in a room on their own.

Some of that decision making in the public might go. There is a bake

onus on the individuals to take on this role to make sure that the

public transparently see the decisions that had taken and they

are not done in smoke-filled rooms. We could have some horrendous

personality clashes. That is a possibility. Most Jeeves will want

to make that relationship work. -- most chiefs. I can hear what you're

saying. I did not realise that it would be in an open forum. -- would

not be in an open forum. Going back to accountability being elected by

the public. I agree there should be accountability what happened with

Hillsborough is one of the greatest policing scandals of my lifetime.

Their police there should have been accountable to the law. I am not

sure... This was people power that forced change here. Isn't this an

expression of democratic power? There were generations of elected

politicians who didn't deal with this situation. Are you concerned

the Police and Crime Commissioner might not share your agenda? Not at

all. This is a constitutional point. It is not about a liberal agenda or

another agenda. It's about saying you need checks and balances in a

democracy and you need independence people as well as political people

and they would no more have an elected judge, if you have elected

judges, but our best always works for it -- walks free. They don't

necessarily serve the whole community just a popular bets.

Wasserman, a brief comment. This is a top that relates and concerns the

allegations of resources. We have known that is a role for

politicians. Policing needs an infinite, somebody needs to make

the decision. Is it if re-elected where Mark will have to make

decisions? The local media will make sure this is transparent.

thanks to you all. Later, we're going to be looking at what the

candidates themselves say they're going to do if they are elected.

What their priorities are. These commissioners are going to have a

What would you do? Where would you send the bodies? After next week's

elections the commissioners will decide where we will drop the Thin

Blue Line. What will having a commissioner mean it to people like

you and me? When it all comes down to it and will they really make

that much of a difference. It is perhaps thanks to him that we

have the police at all. Robert Peel was an MP and at Prime Minister. He

also said men in uniform into London to catch criminals. Our

first real police force. If he were alive today the bloke behind the

humble Bobby might be beaming. That is because crime is falling by

almost 10 % in 12 months in the West Midlands. But that does not

mean the new commissioners are in for an easy ride.

The latest figures show that last year there were 380,000 reported

crimes in the West Midlands. That is one for every 16 people that

lives here. The crooks are certainly still at it. That means

plenty of victims. What are the experiences of the

people on the street? What do they want to see tackled by these new

bosses of the boys and girls in blue? I have always thought of

myself as a good listener. Let us hear what people have to say.

just got home from work, closed the door behind me, saw the wife and

children. Went downstairs. One hour later somebody had been in and

taken their briefcase, the money from the copy shop, and our

computers. That must have been is so scary. The definitely. That is

the story of one victim. I have only been here five minutes. What

about some of the punters? What is there expedience? Have you ever had

to close the police -- call the police? The response I got - I

might as well not have bothered. I go to the local shop there is the

youth outside. They are drinking. The more they drink the more

abusive they get. It is not very nice. I do not want to feel

intimidated. I had been out with some friends. I came back. There

was a door with glass. I opened the door and went in. I'd jump to over.

But the came out. Started to write it all down. I never saw him again.

Is this the police? Yes. Where would you like to see more

officers? In the open. On patrol. The you hadn't officer come to

report a burglary. I never heard from him again. From what I am

seeing every bit the is seeing the same then. Some of the good folk of

the West Midlands have spoken. They've been victims of crime and

they think there's plenty of work to be done.

So what will these new commissioners do and will they

This is the technical but. In this region we'll elect a

commissioner for each of our five forces: Staffordshire, Warwickshire,

Gloucestershire, West Mercia that looks after Shropshire,

Herefordshire and Worcestershire. And, finally, West Midlands which

covers an area that includes the cities of Birmingham, Wolverhampton

The West Midlands force is the second largest in the country and

its commissioner will get the highest salary - �100,000. While

Warwickshire and Gloucestershire are two of the smallest - but still

paying a wage of 65 grand. So, nice little earners. But

exactly who's in the running for these high paid, high pressured

jobs? Well it's proved to be popular. 19

candidates have put themselves forward for these five prestige

positions. Many are elected councillors.

There's a former MP and an ex-MEP - while six are independents who

aren't members of the main political parties. And some, like

me, used to have police uniform jobs. But other than the salary why

else might they be interested in the position?

The successful candidates will control budgets of hundreds of

millions of pounds. They'll set a five year plan for tackling crime.

And if they're not happy with the way the job's being done they'll

have the power to fire the chief constable.

So they'll be powerful people. But, as we know, while crime may be

falling, some folk in the West Midlands feel it's still a problem.

Will these commissioners make a difference? Well, I've brought

together two people in the know with different views on the impact

they're going to have. We welcome the introduction of a police and

crime commissioner. It will put victims at the heart of the justice

system. They have got an obligation to listen. It is an opportunity for

victims of crime to have their voice heard. Police priorities can

be determined around their views. You are looking at this from a

different perspective. You have had a long period in the police. What

are your views? The danger is it is a lot of power in one pair of hands.

I would have preferred to have seen the democratic element broadened by

collecting the fooled police authority. I think that was the way

to go. -- the Complete police authority. This one person will

probably represent a political party. This brings in the risk of

party politics influencing policing at a local level to a higher degree

than we have seen in the past. That is my concern. This is going to be

a huge decision and a huge job for anybody. It is a very big job.

Whoever comes into this job need a lot of strategic planning skills.

The need to handle big budgets. Over half a billion pounds budget

in West Midlands. This is a big job. I am concerned that many of the

candidates nationally do not come with a professional background to

handle that. I am talking about an organisational background. They

will have to get support quickly to do their job. There is lots of

specialism out there. There is lot of experience. We have 40 years of

experience in victim Support. We will assist the police and crime

Commissioners. But they work with as we can support them.

So in a few days' time, we'll vote on the new force behind our local

police force. These commissioners will be powerful people who'll

decide just how we should be tackling crime.

But, as for whether they'll make a real impact? Well, for now, the

There are 193 candidates standing in these elections. Each has to

produce a statement about what they want to achieve. I have were all in

here. Some mention a military background. Some talk about their

former role with the police authority. Here are the actual

words they use most often. The bigger they are the more a commonly

-- the more commonly they appear. Only 30 uses of the word alcohol

when 40 % of violent crime is fuelled by alcohol. Is that the

right emphasis? One phrase that is common is anti-social behaviour.

That is that every day low level nuisance crime that so many of us

suffer from. You suffered terribly from that. You set up a CCTV camera.

Talk as through it. controllable. Targeting has

repeatedly. We kept going to court to try and get them effected. Life

became unbearable. -- defected. The police are not proactive. A crime

would happen. Do you think our elected commissioner would

galvanise them? A in principle it is a good idea that you have

someone who is possibly independent. The authorities mark their own

homework all the time. But they do not have enough powers. The need to

have a lot more power to one of its cases. As soon as a case has gone

on for one year did look at the case management, what has gone

wrong with that, start to get other people to look at what is going

wrong. This is not just about budgets. It has tried to understand

what is going wrong, why things are not effective. Why are crimes

committed against people and these people are not caught? The whole

thing. Not enough power. Not enough power. They should have more power.

There is an element of flexibility. I am not sure they need more power.

Their job is to identify policing needs and to deal with the chief

Constable's and the voluntary organisations and the victims'

groups to meet these policing needs. They do not need power. We need

leadership. I disagree. The problem now is beneath the surface you need

to get to the very basics of why that case is a problem. They need

to go and advocate the case management. Who is doing what. Why

is there evidence not good enough? Why is there not war-crimes -- why

are there are multiple crimes? successful candidate will go on to

say I am going to do this for you. He would get elected. You cannot

have the same estate, the same street, targeted time after time.

Anybody who is any good will have a map on his wall. They will no we're

the crimes are. I have seen this. They will say to the Chief

Constable, why have we got another burglary or whatever, robbery, on

this estate? And not if there are not any boats there. It is a

different story from investigating a particular case. A key point that

has been raised. What if nobody boats? You and a former gang member.

You turn it around. -- you turned it around. The people

disproportionately affected by gangs do not live in the leafy

areas. This is the danger. People will be feeling how can they

communicate. It cannot just be a one of thing. Will somebody stand-

up or will we get the boats from elsewhere? -- votes. If there is

support in the community the community wants to help. They will

want to change the community. There needs to be a youth worker,

somebody that they can go to an speak to on a regular basis to get

these issues tackled. Could they be tackled by Ms commissioners?

Definitely. There needs to be more communication with the young people.

The more we come together as a collapse if the more we will solve

the problem. -- as a collective. You can see the size of the issues