West Police Elections 2012

The way the police operate will change forever. That is when we

elect brand-new police and crime Commissioners, and through them, we

will have the chance to decide how the police deal with everything

from under-aged drinking, graffiti, right through to gun crime. Tonight

we are going to explain the idea, look at how it might work and

Millions of us across England and Wales are being given a choice, who

do we want to be our Police and Crime Commissioner? Who do we want

to decide the strategy for house if our streets are, to look after

victims? Why should we go to the polls next week on a cold November

night in these elections? The new Police and Crime Commissioners,

will they really make a difference? At what effect will the changes

have where you live? Tonight, we will look at what these elections

mean for all of us. In the West, we're talking drugs.

Crack cocaine, heroin, mephedrone and cannabis. Drugs are responsible

for a third of all crime, surely it's simple - stamp out the drugs

and you stop the crime. How should Avon and Somerset's new PCC clean

In the next half hour, we will look at what difference these new police

commissioners are going to make. Later in the programme, we will be

asking, are the crop of candidates out there going in the right

direction? Guests tonight include Shami Chakrabarti, who thinks it is

up to -- terrible idea. And the man who helped to design the plan. But

what will these commissioners be responsible for? They will be able

to hire and fire a chief constable. And they will have to consult us on

the way the police the streets. They might also be able to extend

their influence into had justice is administered through the courts.

These characters will be managing multi-million-pound organisations.

Developing a plan that covers population's of millions, all

within one police force Iraq. It is a huge task. We have been tried to

find out what the job is all about. -- one police force Syria.

The police have to manage all types of crime, whether that is violent

crime in the City or anti-social behaviour in the countryside. The

Government's advertising campaign is hard hitting, but the new Police

and Crime Commissioner will have to tap into people's everyday concerns.

The gangs that hang around, especially in the park. The police

do not like to speak to us. More police on the beat. The crime

Commissioner's job is to listen to the public and in the run-up to the

elections, the candidates are making their promises to win votes.

Once in office, they may discover just how complex policing is, with

conflicting demands. In Middlesbrough, anti-social

behaviour takes up most police time. Ron has suffered ten years of abuse,

including two petrol bomb attacks on his home. He knows exactly what

he wants from the new Police and Crime Commissioner. They need to

sort the estate out, more police on the beat. Without that, people are

just going to suffer more. We need to target the people causing the

trouble within the communities. Police on the beat me reassure

people their communities are safe, but deploying them everywhere all

the time is impossible. Different crimes need different policing. In

North Yorkshire in The Stade, crime is relatively low. Bobbies on the

beat are not a priority but recently, the village post office

had its cash machine stolen. People round here still want their fair

share of policing. Two doors down from the Post Office, Karen's

property has been broken into twice. She is concerned that rural areas

will be overlooked by the new Police and Crime Commissioner.

concern is that the police commissioner might think that petty

crime does not matter, but it does matter to people, especially in

rural areas. If somebody takes you trailer or your bike or break into

your shed, it does affect those people, and we pay our taxes, and

we matter. So, it is up to the crime Commissioner to listen and

deliver policing relevant to you, and do it with limited resources.

But that is not the only challenge. There is the tricky issue of

personalities. The new crime commissioner will set the

priorities for a Chief Constable. How will take get on and can be

agreed on how to achieve what the public wants to see? A reduction in

crime. This former chief constable knows how tough that job is but he

thinks the job of the new Police and Crime Commissioner will be even

harder. It is enormously challenging because the individual

will need to understand the police service. They will need to have a

lot of political nous, it will need to know how to run an enormous

organisation. It will be to have the confidence of the public and

the media. It is a virtually impossible task for any individual

to do that. Strong words there from Keith Hellawell. Virtually

impossible for any one individual. I do not think that is right. He is

talking about managing the police force. The chief constable will

manage the police force. The PCC is not managing, he is a political

leader, he will look at decisions, about priorities. He will try to

identify policing needs. But he is not going to be managing the force

on a day-to-day basis. There is a chief constable, assistance, they

have been trained for that. That is their job. There was or what am

beginning of the programme about changing police operations, this

will not affect police operations, except if the Chief Constable wants

them to change. It is a parrot priority. It is about focusing on

needs. -- it is about priority. is power to the people? It is not,

it is power to another elected politician. I think we have seen

too much political interference in policing and in law and order in

recent years. Democracy is not just about having elections, and elected

politicians are not the only people with a parties in democracy. You

also have to have the rule of law. Of course, politicians set the loss,

the decide what police powers are and what crimes are. But you need

independent professionals to serve the community, whether they vote or

not. Young, all, minorities and majorities. I worry that his

charismatic local politician, if that is who he is, and it will

normally be heat rather than Police Authority, which is more diverse.

There are very few female standing, relatively. I am worried this

politician will be looking for the headlines and the popular causes,

and not serving the tough needs of the entire community, no matter how

vulnerable they are. I just do not agree. I think MPs serve the whole

of the communities when they are elected. I think there may asserts

the Hall of the community of London. I do not think we need to worry

about PCC's neglecting bits of the communities. But the public want a

lot to be administered with an even hand, they do not want judges to be

elected or police chiefs to be elected. We pulled the public last

year about whether they wanted this new system. Or whether they

preferred the existing system, with a chief constable and a broader

Police Authority. 65% of the people we polled said they would rather

stick but the status quo. Only 15% pot they would trust elected

politician over the chief constable under the existing system. When you

say it may well be a low turnout and you accept that, you have also

said people do not yet understand the concept of this role in one

individual's hands, you say actually it is the elections after

this one that are going to be really significant. What are the

next four years good to be, a pilot? No, the next four years will

be when the PCC's begin to make a difference in their communities.

And members of those communities begin to realise that this PCC is

someone who can make a difference to their lives. And suddenly, you

will find, whereas now, people had never heard of the PCC, the

rigorous something as crime done to them. But he is not going to

interfere in operational policing. What is this great transformation

he will do in the lives of people? I believe in inspirational

leadership. I believe that if a PCC can get a more effective police

force by inspiring and leading and supporting the chief constable. I

do not see this as a conflict... Let's talk about the practical. One

of the biggest police cover-ups, Hillsborough, Jenny, you lost your

two lovely girls at Hillsborough. I just wonder if you had had a Police

and Crime Commissioner there he was answerable to folks like yourself,

would you have felt voiceless for quite so long? The current system

does not seem to have worked for us. Some of the decisions that the

local police authorities are not making have not worked for us.

Certain people should have been suspended, because of allegations

about them. They just that my -- that did not happen. So because he

can get kicked out, he or she, that would have been a better situation

for you? I would hope so. I would hope they would be more

transparency. And there would be more accountability from them.

Because they were elected. As a former top copper, more

transparency, accountability, is this a real possibility? I think it

depends. Politicians are not unknown for deciding not to open up

and be transparent just before an election. But would not necessarily

happen, you would have to have other leaders to resolve the type

of situation that revolves around Hillsborough. There are one or two

facets of the role, notably, police authorities for all the floors to

at least meet in open, public meetings. Not with a huge audience

because they are not wildly interesting for money. But they are

at least a public meeting. Most decisions taken between a chief and

a PCC you are going to be taken in a room with a cup of coffee, on

their own. So some of that decision making in public might go. There is

a really big bonus on the individuals to take on this will --

who take on this role to make sure the public transparently see the

decisions being taken and they are not just done in what used to be

called smoke-filled rooms. We could also get personality clashes as

well. That is a possibility. Most chiefs will want to make that

relationship work, so I think that would be unlikely to happen. I can

hear what you are saying. I did not realise that it would be an open

forum where decisions were being made, so that is quite worrying.

That is not good for transparency. A comeback to the accountability of

being elected. I agree that there should be accountability, and what

happened at Hillsborough is one of the greatest policing scandals of

my lifetime. The police there should have been accountable to the

law. I'm not sure... We have had generations of elected

politicians... It was people power to force change here. Is this not

an expression... Generations of elected politicians, Home Secretary

and others, who did not deal with the situation. Are you concerned

that the Police and Crime Commissioner may not share your

liberal agenda? Not at all. This is a constitutional point. It is not

about a liberal agenda. It is about saying that you need checks and

balances in a democracy, we need independent people as well as

political people. I would no more have an elected judge... If you

have elected judges, by the way, Barra has always walks free. If you

put policing in the hands of elected politicians, they do not

necessarily serve the whole community, just the most popular

bets. I see it differently. This is a job which relates or which

concerns the allegation of scarce resources. We have always known

that is a role for politicians. Policing needs are infinite and

resources very limited. Someone has to make the decision. Is it the

chief constable, or is it a freely elected PCC who has to defend his

actions at the polls? And every day, the local media will ensure that

this is transparent. And you all very much for now. Later, we will

be looking at what the candidates themselves say they are going to do

if they are elected. What their priorities are. These commissioners

are going to have a huge effect on Welcome to Bridewell Police Station

in the centre of Bristol. Today we are talking about drugs. Upstairs I

have a panel of expert witnesses are and I will be cross-examining

them shortly. Who is winning the war on drugs in the West? Visit the

drugs barons or the drug squad? -- visit me.

If police officers armed with semi- automatic machine guns. In 2003,

the drugs war had escalated to the point that such patrols became

routine. Since then, there have been high-profile court cases

resulting in long cases for a violent and career criminals.

stop the supply coming down to our states, that is where we what to be.

-- Stakes. Drugs in themselves cause chaos for certain users.

Drugs continued to pour into the region with 100 seizures in the

last six months alone. In the same period, 5200 suspects have been

arrested and over the last two years, and 27,000 cannabis plants

have been recovered with a street value of over �24 million. With

one-third of all crime drug-related, the radical approach is that when

someone is arrested, the its councillors will meet with them and

stay with them throughout the judicial process. We do not want to

see the same faces turning up and going through other court's time

and time again. The buying and selling of drugs has now entered a

new phase, that of the Internet. Many users log on to him legal

sites and order their drugs by post. -- illegal sites will stop it is a

new challenge for the new Police and Crime Commissioner us.

Behind before I go to meet our guests, I should make it clear that

the Police and Crime Commissioner will not be deciding who gets

arrested or what houses are read it. They are there to hold the Chief

Constable to account, set the budget and devise a strategy falls

up -- strategy. You have one story involving drugs and how it has

affected you personally. My son was 28 when he died, and he died

shortly after taking Ketteman. -- ketamine. How did he get into drugs

and how did it affect him? Nightclubs. It caused the mood

swings and issues with the eating. He had put up a fascination with

water. Could the police are authorities have done anything to

sate and? When they swatter Hannon on several occasions they could

have warned him about the dangers of drugs. He was one of those

people who would listen to authority. Best they had been

tougher, you think that could have saved him.A solicitor. Ali police

getting their drugs policy are right in this area? I think they're

doing what they can with what they have but I think the answer is no.

There needs to be a sea change in the education, particularly at

schools and youth clubs, with regards to drugs. It requires a lot

more money spent on it. Should that be a priority for the new police

commissioner? The knock-on effects in order to fund the habit means

that we get countless burglaries and it just causes such mayhem and

distress to the people of Bristol and the surrounding area. You're

running a drugs project and you rely on some funding from the

police to keep your organisation going. The Police and Crime

Commissioner will decide whether you continue to get that money.

There is really still money that if you provide drug treatment, you can

reduce crime. For if any �1 you spend on drug treatment, it saves

us all two pounds 50. The figures I have says that 97% of people fail

to recover from their drug addiction. I do not recognise that.

In Bristol, 40% of people successfully led treatment last

year and over a period of time, we would expect that around half of

people will be able to sustain it. Most people are not recovering

filly and we could be able to spend those resources elsewhere?

could but you will see crime increase again. Looking back at

Bristol, serious crime, we had in excess of 30,001 decade ago and we

have just over 8000 now but his direct way related to the increased

spend on drug treatment. Tell us your story? I was addicted to

heroin for 25 years and I now work with people who have long turned up

problems. This may be an opportunity for the Police and

Crime Commissioner to get the money spent in the correct sectors. The

people doing the frontline work do not get access to the money and it

is often very policy driven. Should the Police and Crime Commissioner

tell the Chief Constable to concentrate on the harp, or should

we have a zero-tolerance of drugs anyway? I can see that as an

argument but history and figures, that does not add up. The

illegality of the drug or the policies around it have little

effect. We all want this magic bullet that will reduce the supply

and help young people to make healthier choices but we do not

know how to do it. The drug supply it is internationally and

incredibly profitable business. If it is not going away any time soon

and younger people these days than involved in a very different scene

where many people are buying their drugs on the Internet, so-called

legal highs. Up you're saying it is unbeatable. Do you all agree with

that? It is in the format we have because you cannot enforce the

issue so we have to look at a very different alternative. I agree

entirely with that. The government needs to spend a lot of money on an

advertising campaign such as De anti-smoking campaign, which I

think has been remarkably successful. I think we need to

educate more and spend more money on the problems that are created if

you take drugs. The key decision for the new Police and Crime

Commissioner. Thank you all very much. We got now -- if you want to

know more about who is standing for election in your area, the easiest

thing is to go to the following were six. -- website. Back now to

There are 193 candidates standing in the selection and each needs to

produce a statement about what they want to achieve. Some mention their

military background, some mention their former role in the police a

authority, and here are the words used most often. The bigger they

are, the more they commonly appear. Out of 55,000 words, only 50

instances up Larkhall when 40% of violent crime is caused by alcohol.

Another common problem is anti- social behaviour. That is the

source of every day O-level nuisance kind that so many of us

suffer from. -- low level. You got to the stage of setting up a CCTV

camera. It was uncontrollable. They targeted us repeatedly and we kept

going to court to try to get them evicted. In the end, life became

unbearable and I think the big problem is that the police do not

seem to be proactive any worse. An instance of crime would happen...

You think someone like yourself would galvanise them? It would be

good if you had someone that was possibly independent. I do not

think they have enough powers. I think they need a lot more power to

audit cases. As soon as the case has gone on for a year, they should

look at the case management and what has gone wrong with it. This

is not just about police budgets and everything else, it is about

understanding what has gone wrong and why it is ineffectual. Why can

numerous crimes happen and the people are not caught? There is a

certain amount of flexibility, appear to havepowers to evolve?

do not think they need more power. Their focus is on policing needs

and dealing with chief constables and victims' groups and voluntary

her organisations. I do not think they need power but I think they

need leadership. I totally disagree because the whole problem is that

when you get beneath the surface, up you need to get to the very

basics of life that cases such a problem. The need to going and look

at the case management and who is doing what, why is the evidence

collection not good enough and so on. Why are you having multiple

crimes in one the area at all and over again? The person that is

successful will go on to say I am going to do this for you.

cannot have the same state targeted time and time again. Anyone who is

any good as the Police and Crime Commissioner will have a map on

their wall and will know on a daily basis where the crimes are coming.

I have seen this. They will be able to say to the Chief Constable, why

do we have a another burglary on this estate? It is quite a

different story from investigating a particular case. The people that

I in gangs, the people affected by gangs disproportionately do not

laugh in the well-off areas that vote in these elections. Will you

be listened to? The question is how are you going to communicate with

the people in these communities? If you are going to go down, it cannot

just be a one-time thing. somebody going to stand up and say

I am going to help you people or will they get the...S from

elsewhere? -- vote. They may want to help but if they do not know how

to help or who to go to to get help, there may be needs to be based

social worker by youth worker that they can talk to. I feel there

needs to be more communication and with the young people, the more we

are spoken to as a collector of the more we can helps or the problem.

- collective. That is just half an hour and you can see the size of

the issues we're talking about. We will be holding debates from 9am