Yorkshire Police Elections 2012

Everyone has got the one how the streets should be policed. In just

over one week's time, the way the That is when we elected brands new

Police and Crime Commissioner. Through them, we will get the

chance to decide how police deal with everything from under-aged

drinking, graffiti, right through to gun crime. Tonight, we would

explain the idea, look at how it will work can discuss the issues

Millions of us across England and Wales are being given a choice. Who

do we want to be our Police and Crime Commissioner? Who do we want

to decide the strategy for how safe our streets are? To deal with

crime? To look after victims? Why should we go to the polls next week

on a cold November night in these controversial elections? Will the

new Police and Crime commissioners make a difference? And what effect

the changes will have where you live? Tonight well be looking at

what these police elections mean for all of us. We are looking at

the way we are policed, from the cities to the countryside. We will

ask what people expect from the police and can the new crime

Commissioners give us what we want? We will be asking, are the

candidates out by going in the right direction? Joining me

throughout are people like Shami Chakrabati from the Human Rights

group Liberty. And Lord Wasserman, who helped design it. But what will

these police commissioners be responsible for? For a start

they'll be able to hire and fire a Chief Constable. They have to

deliver a five-year police and crime plan and come up with the

budget. They have to regularly consult you and me on the way they

police our streets. And they might also be able to influence how

justice is administered through the courts.

These characters will be managing multimillion pound organisations,

and developing a plan that covers areas with populations of millions,

combining both urban and rural, all within one police force area. It's

a huge job. Riz Lateef has been trying to find out what sort of

things they will have to think about when they start work next

week. Police have to manage all types of crime, whether it is by

and grime in the City or anti- social behaviour in the countryside.

The advertising campaign is hard hitting, but the new Police and

Crime Commissioner will have to tap into people's everyday concerns.

The gangs that how around, especially in the park. On the

stretch of road that I live, they use it like a motorway. More police,

more wardens. The job is to listen to the public and in the run-up to

elections, the candidates to write making their promises to remain --

to win votes. Once in office, they may discover just how complex in

policing is with conflicting demands. Sheerin Middlesbrough,

anti-social behaviour takes up most police time. This man has suffered

10 years of abuse, including a two petrol bomb attacks on his home. He

knows exactly what he wants from the new police and crime

commissioner. The need to sort the estate out. Put more police on the

beach. Without that, people will suffer more. We need to target the

people causing trouble in the communities. Police on the beach

may reassure people their communities are safe. But to point

them everywhere all the time is impossible. Different crimes need

different policing. Take this area in North Yorkshire where crime is

relatively low. Bobbies on the beats are not a priority, but

recently, the village post office had its cash machine stolen. People

are wrenches to want their fair here of policing. Two doors down

from the Post Office, this lady's property has been broken into twice.

She is concerned rural areas will be overlooked by the new Police and

Crime Commissioner. My concern is that the police commissioner might

think that petty crime as it is Labour does not matter. But it does

matter to people, especially in rural areas. And if somebody takes

your trailer or your bike or they break into your shed, then it does

affect those people. And we pay our taxes. We matter. It is up to the

Police and Crime Commissioner to listen and deliver policing

relevant you and do it with limited resources. But that is not the only

challenge. There is the tricky issue of personalities. The new

Police and Crime Commissioner will set the priorities for a chief

constable. How will they get on and can they agree on how to achieve

what the public wants to see? A reduction in crime. This man is a

former chief constable. He knows how tough that jobbers. But he

thinks the job of the new Police and Crime Commissioner will be even

harder. It is enormously challenging. The individual will

need to understand the police service. They were made to have a

lot of political nous and there will need to know how to run an

enormous organisation and have the confidence of the public and the

media. It is a virtually impossible task.

Strong words. But a virtually impossible task for any one

individual. I do not think that is right. He is talking about managing

of the police force. The chief constable will manage the police

force. Police and Crime Commissioner is not managing, he is

a leader. He will try to identify policing needs. He is not going to

be managing the 4th on a day-to-day basis. There is a management team,

a chief constable. They have been trained and paid for that. That is

their job. There was a lot at the beginning of the programme about

changing police operations. This will not affect police operations,

except if the Chief Constable wants them to change. It is about

priorities, focusing on people's needs. Identifying those needs and

making sure the Chief Constable needs them. It is power to the

people. It is not. But his power to another politician. We have seen

too much political interference in policing and law-and-order. The

this is more democracy. Democracy is not just about having elections.

Elected politicians are not the only people with authority in a

democracy. You also have to have the rule of law. Politicians that

the laws, they decide what the police powers are, what the crimes

are, but then you need Independent professionals to serve the whole

community. Whether they vote will not. Young, old, minorities as well

as majorities. I am worried that this charismatic local politician,

if that is who he is, it will normally be a he'd rather than a

police authority which is my -- which is not averse. I'm worried

that this politician will be looking for the headlines and the

popular causes and not serving the Taf needs of the entire community,

no matter how vulnerable they are. I do not agree. I think Members of

Parliament serve the whole of their communities when they are elected.

I think the mayor serves the whole of the community of London. I do

not think we need to worry about Police and Crime Commissioner

neglecting bits of their communities. But the public want

the law to be administered within each -- even a hand. We polled the

public last year about whether they wanted this new system of whether

they preferred the existing system with a chief constable and a

broader police as rot. 65% of the people we polled said they would

rather stick with the status quo. When the 15% said they would trust

the elected politician. You will on the record as saying that it may

well be a very low turnout. You accept that. You have also said

people do not understand the concept of this rule in one

individual's hands. Then you are saying actually, it is the

elections after this one that are going to be really significant.

What are the next four years going to be? The next four years are a

period when the Police and Crime Commissioner are coming to begin to

make a difference in their communities are members of those

communities begin to realise that they are someone who can make a

difference to their lives. And suddenly, you will find, whereas

now, people have never heard of Police and Crime Commissioner, they

regard crime as something that is done to them, not something they

can control. If he is not going to interfere in operational policing,

what is this transformation he will do in people's lives? You cannot

have it both ways. I believe in inspirational leadership. I believe

Police and Crime Commissioner can give a better, more effective

police force by inspiring and leading and supporting the chief

constable. I do not see this as a conflict. Let's talk about the

practical and one of the biggest police cover-ups in the history.

Hillsborough, for example. You lost your two lovely girls at

Hillsborough. I wonder if you had had a police and crime commissioner

who was answerable to good folks like yourself, would you have felt

was this for quite so long? current system does not seem to

have worked for this. The decisions that the local police authorities

are not making haven't worked for us. Why certain people should have

been suspended because of allegations about them. It did not

happen. You think a Police and Crime Commissioner because he is

answerable to people and can get kicked out after four years, that

would have been a better situation for you? I would hope so. I would

hope there would be more transparency. But there would be

more accountability from them because they were elected. As a

former top police officer yourself, more transparency, more

accountability. This is a real possibility? I think it depends.

Politicians are not unknown for deciding not to open up and be

transparent just before an election, so I do not think that is a given

that it would necessarily happened. There are one or two facets of the

new rule, notably, police have verities for all their floors, do

at least meet in open public meetings. Not with a huge audience

present because they are not very interesting for many, but they are

at least at a public meeting. Most of the decisions that can be taken

between eight and eight Police and Crime Commissioner will be taken in

a room with a cup of coffee on the Rome. Somehow, some of that

decision making in public might go. There is a big bonus on the

individuals at a combat rule to make sure the public transparently

see the decisions taken and they're not just done in what used to be

called smoke filled rooms. A you could get personality clashes.

is a distinct possibility. Most commanders will want to make fat

work. That will be lightly. I can hear what he was saying. I did not

realise that it would be in an open forum that decisions would be made.

That is not good for transparency. However, I will come back to the

accountability of being collected by the public. I agree that there

should be accountability and what happened with Hillsborough is one

of the greatest policing scandals of my lifetime. The police should

have been accountable to the law. We have had generations of...

was people power that forced change here. Isn't this an expression of

democratic rule? Are you concerned that the Police and Crime

Commissioner may not here your agenda? But not at all. This is a

constitutional point. It is not about a liberal agenda or another

agenda, it is about saying you need balances in a democracy and you

need Independent people as well as political people and I would no

more have an elected judge. If you put policing in the hands of

elected politicians, they do not necessarily serve the whole

community, just the most popular bet. A police final comment. I see

it completely differently. This is a job which relates to, which

concerns the allegations of scarce resources. We have almost no matter

zero for politicians. Policing needs are in for much. Policing

resources are very limited. Some minutes to make that decision. Is

it could be a chief constable or was it a free the elected a Police

and Crime Commissioner who has to defend his actions? Every day, the

local media will ensure that this is transparent. Thank you very much.

Later, we will be looking at what the candidates themselves say they

will do if they are elected. Put their priorities are. These

commissioners are going to have a We are about to make a historic

decision that will change forever the way we are policed. We will

talk about the issues that matter. I'm joined by a former police

officer worth more than 20 years of experience. The commissioners will

have a tough job. Crime and the This is rural North Yorkshire. It

is peaceful. Maybe you think crime would not be a problem here. But

you would be wrong. I am in Kirkbymoorside. There are not

enough police on the ground to talk to people with noisy neighbours or

someone who is losing machinery. Mike Pannett knows all about the

issues. Ryedale is such a vast area. It maybe that at night, you travel

Most crime happen in our towns and cities because that is where most

people live. Residents here have had their fair share of problems.

Mike Pannett served in York as well as in Ryedale. It is apparent here

that antisocial behaviour is high on the list. You had criminal

damage, drug abuse, you'd congregating at night. He need to

get to understand the problems so Simon Moss lives across the street

from where a teenage girl died from a drug overdose earlier this year.

You do not expect this to happen to someone so young. Youngsters, they

know the P us holes do not have We saw in that report that many

people in Yorkshire are still expecting more from our police

force. Let us take a look at what the change will mean to victims of

crime. My son was brutally murdered in 2004 by the US. He had been

battered to death, stabbed three times. I am a victim of crime and

my son is a victim of crime that I have the life sentence, not them.

The law is far too lenient. The aim of these commissioners is to give

people like you a voice. Does that give you confidence? Not really. I

do not think they have said what they will do for victims of crime.

I know there will be funding there. But victims of crime want the

punishment to fit the crime, sentencing, which we do not have

any faith in in this country. that report you look at crime put

up Lorraine does not feel the law is on her side. It is dreadful put

up now is the chance for the commissioners to go out there and

listen to what the public have to say. The people are worried about

how political potentially the role has become. They should listen to

the public. They have to be the voice and listen to the community.

They have quite a job to do that, to restore the trust and faith of

people like Lorraine Fraser, the victim of crime. The commissioners

need to restore trust. As we have seen, the difficulty for the

incoming commissioners is they face a public which is mistrustful of

how the system works. What could a commissioner do, potentially?

aim is to look at the pool of money and resources and direct them to

their priorities. Ultimately, where there is a call for support to from

victims or whatever it may be, it is up to the commissioner to back

that up. Will this make you were more or less likely to cast a vote?

I do not really know. Funding, many, but the general public once to see

it is the punishment fitting the crime. I'm not interested in money,

I am interested in punishment. The sentences of my son's killers did

not fit the crime. Turnout could be very low and that could undermine

the legitimacy of these elections? People are worried about a low

turnout. People do not have much confidence in party politics. There

is a vital role to be had there but that it is vital that we ever get

in will be able to listen to the public that they are serving. There

are questions, they will have to go and knock on the door and say there

must be changes. The bottom line being they are being brought in to

scrutinise and hold to account. They are a watchdog and we hope it

will work. Certainly. We were not know until after the elections how

this has worked. They will have to convince the public that they can

do something. Time will tell. you very much for joining us. These

elections are taking place on 15th November. Let us take a look at two

you will be voting for in Yorkshire. There are a couple of candidates in

0 -- North Yorkshire. There are You will have an opportunity to put

your questions to your candidate tomorrow on BBC Radio York and on

From all of us here in Sheffield, goodbye. There are 193 candidates

standing in these elections, and each has to produce a statement

about what they want to achieve. This is all of them. Some mention

their military background, some talk about their former role with

the police authority. Here are the actual words they use

most often. The bigger they are, the more commonly they appear.

Crime obviously hundreds of mentions. 60 references to drugs.

Out of 55,000 words only 30 uses of the word alcohol. Anti-social

behaviour is mentioned 117 times. And actually we might all hear

about the big crimes but it's the anti-social behaviour which blights

us. The low level crime. Asher Nardone, mum of two and carer for

her severely disabled son has regularly been a victim of anti-

social behaviour, and Chris Preddie, including damage to her car and

stones thrown her windows. They were and controllable. They kept

targeting us up repeatedly. In the end, life became unbearable. I

think the big problem is the police are not proactive any more. They

just react. A crime will happen. crime Commissioner could galvanise

them? In principle, it is a good idea to have someone who is

independent. But they do not think they have enough powers. I think

they need more powers to deal with cases. They could start to get

other people to look at this. This is not just about police and the

budget. It is trying to understand what is going wrong and why it is

ineffectual. Why at the prisons not sorting people out? Not enough

power, they should have enough power? There is a bit of leg room

for more powers to evolve? I think their job is to identify a policing

needs and to deal with their chief constables and the voluntary

organisations and the victims to meet the needs. I do not think they

need power. They need leadership. disagree. When you start getting

beneath the surface, you need to get to the very basics of why that

case is such a problem. They need to go in and MANAGEMENT and see who

is doing what. Why are you having multiple crimes in in tears over

and over again? Why at the same people being targeted?

commissioner could come on to the estate and say we will do this for

you and get elected. Anyone who is any good in this role will have a

map on the wall and they will be able to see where the crimes are

and will know what happens and they will be able just say to the Chief

Constable why is this not being dealt with on this estate? Shami

Chakrabati has made a key point that has been raised. A former gang

member has turned things around and is helping others. People are being

affected by a gang so disproportionately. They do not

live in the leafy areas where people may be voting in these

elections. How we communicate with people in these communities? It

should not be a case where people do not know what to do after six

months. Perhaps there should be more populist messages? It depends

if there is support in the community. People will want to

change their community if the support is there. They need to be

someone there that they can speak to on a regular basis to try to get

these issues tackled. I fear there needs to be more communication with

the young people, the communities and the police. The more we come

together as a collective, the more we will solve problems. Already,

you can see the size of some of the problems. Now you've got a chance

to have your say on the issues. If you want to make your own point,

then all across England there'll be police election debates from 9am.