Browse content similar to The Boarding School Bomber. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
This programme contains some strong language | 0:00:02 | 0:00:06 | |
'Listen, I hope you are not too late. This boy, Isa, he needs help, | 0:00:06 | 0:00:10 | |
'only we fear he is close to doing something very dangerous to himself and others. | 0:00:10 | 0:00:16 | |
'We believe he has a bomb.' | 0:00:16 | 0:00:19 | |
Three years after the 7/7 bombers attacked London, | 0:00:21 | 0:00:23 | |
killing 56 and injuring 700 more, | 0:00:23 | 0:00:27 | |
the police received information | 0:00:27 | 0:00:30 | |
that a 19-year-old was preparing to target a shopping centre in Bristol. | 0:00:30 | 0:00:36 | |
We are at war and I am a soldier. | 0:00:36 | 0:00:39 | |
We are at war and I am a soldier. | 0:00:40 | 0:00:42 | |
But Andrew Ibrahim was not your typical terrorist. | 0:00:46 | 0:00:50 | |
-Stop laughing. -I'm gonna kill you. -Yeah? | 0:00:50 | 0:00:53 | |
This is the true story of a middle class public schoolboy... | 0:00:53 | 0:00:58 | |
You don't fucking know me. | 0:00:58 | 0:01:00 | |
Andrew, that is enough! | 0:01:01 | 0:01:02 | |
Enough! | 0:01:02 | 0:01:04 | |
Andrew, enough! | 0:01:04 | 0:01:06 | |
'We are al slaves of Allah...' | 0:01:06 | 0:01:08 | |
..And how that schoolboy turned into a suicide bomber. | 0:01:08 | 0:01:13 | |
Islam will dominate the UK. | 0:01:13 | 0:01:15 | |
Blood is on your hands. On YOUR hands. | 0:01:15 | 0:01:18 | |
Complicit. | 0:01:19 | 0:01:21 | |
Complicit. Complicit. | 0:01:21 | 0:01:23 | |
Well, we know that on 7th April, | 0:01:49 | 0:01:51 | |
Ibrahim went to the Broadmead shopping gallery | 0:01:51 | 0:01:53 | |
in Bristol city centre. | 0:01:53 | 0:01:55 | |
We were able, through recovering of CCTV from all the shops, | 0:01:58 | 0:02:02 | |
and the centre itself, to piece together his exact movements. | 0:02:02 | 0:02:07 | |
And what he's doing was carrying out what we would call a hostile reconnaissance | 0:02:07 | 0:02:11 | |
of that shopping centre. | 0:02:11 | 0:02:13 | |
He walks around. | 0:02:15 | 0:02:16 | |
He looks at where the bins are, | 0:02:16 | 0:02:18 | |
he times himself on the routes around each floor, | 0:02:18 | 0:02:23 | |
he times himself between floors. | 0:02:23 | 0:02:27 | |
And, in fact, on some of the CCTV, you can see him actually inputting | 0:02:27 | 0:02:31 | |
what he's doing into his phone, as a note to himself. | 0:02:31 | 0:02:34 | |
We believe that was his reconnaissance of his planned attack. | 0:02:36 | 0:02:40 | |
It's so surreal that somebody I knew, | 0:02:47 | 0:02:49 | |
somebody that I sat next to for like six months, | 0:02:49 | 0:02:52 | |
and thought I had some sort of insight into him | 0:02:52 | 0:02:56 | |
it's just really, really frightening. | 0:02:56 | 0:02:59 | |
Somebody I knew could have... | 0:02:59 | 0:03:02 | |
like, you know, could have harmed so many different people. | 0:03:02 | 0:03:05 | |
It's really, really quite scary. | 0:03:05 | 0:03:08 | |
But, at the time, we were just completely oblivious. | 0:03:10 | 0:03:13 | |
Andrew was born in a suburb of Bristol, very nice, quite rural. | 0:03:17 | 0:03:22 | |
He had a very privileged upbringing. | 0:03:28 | 0:03:30 | |
He went to private schools. He came from a middle class family, | 0:03:30 | 0:03:33 | |
his father was a doctor and his brother's a lawyer. | 0:03:33 | 0:03:37 | |
He had a fairly normal childhood. | 0:03:39 | 0:03:43 | |
There's nothing that sticks out as him being a little different. | 0:03:43 | 0:03:48 | |
Colston's Collegiate, it was very posh. | 0:03:51 | 0:03:55 | |
They used to call me Vicky Pollard | 0:03:55 | 0:03:58 | |
cos I used to be quite Bristolian | 0:03:58 | 0:04:01 | |
compared to what they were like, whereas outside of school, | 0:04:01 | 0:04:05 | |
when I met my partner now, he actually said, "That was quite posh." | 0:04:05 | 0:04:09 | |
I was like, "Oh, my god, if you think I'm posh, | 0:04:09 | 0:04:12 | |
"you should see some of the people that I go to school with." | 0:04:12 | 0:04:15 | |
Back at school, Andy was, um, big, kind of like bouncer build. | 0:04:17 | 0:04:22 | |
But I wouldn't look at him and go, "Oh, he's fat." | 0:04:22 | 0:04:25 | |
He wasn't that good looking, compared to his brother. | 0:04:28 | 0:04:31 | |
His brother was a dish. | 0:04:31 | 0:04:32 | |
I don't think he felt he fitted in with one particular group. | 0:04:34 | 0:04:37 | |
His interests were not quite the same as other people's. | 0:04:37 | 0:04:41 | |
Perhaps the only people he felt comfortable with | 0:04:41 | 0:04:45 | |
were the people that he played online games with. | 0:04:45 | 0:04:48 | |
He liked Diablo II and he played it online for hours. | 0:04:48 | 0:04:52 | |
But he didn't have many friends at all. | 0:04:54 | 0:04:57 | |
And he'd do silly things to gain attention. | 0:04:57 | 0:05:00 | |
When it come to girls, he was very strange. | 0:05:01 | 0:05:05 | |
He went through a stage of texting me | 0:05:05 | 0:05:08 | |
every single evening and it would only say the words "Hi." | 0:05:08 | 0:05:12 | |
Just say those two letters, H, I, "Hi" | 0:05:12 | 0:05:16 | |
and he done that for a few months | 0:05:16 | 0:05:19 | |
and he did get some scissors once | 0:05:19 | 0:05:22 | |
and he said, "I want some of your hair for my shrine." | 0:05:22 | 0:05:25 | |
and I was like, "Don't fucking touch my hair! | 0:05:25 | 0:05:28 | |
"If you cut my hair, I will... I will go mad." And he didn't, | 0:05:28 | 0:05:33 | |
but he was just getting it to get the reaction from the boys behind him. | 0:05:33 | 0:05:36 | |
But that's a weird thing to do, you don't chase a girl round with scissors | 0:05:36 | 0:05:39 | |
saying you're going to cut their hair. Weird. | 0:05:39 | 0:05:42 | |
But they never expelled anyone in my school. | 0:05:45 | 0:05:49 | |
They'd "ask them to leave." | 0:05:49 | 0:05:51 | |
It's actually a very, very small school compared to, say, Eton | 0:05:53 | 0:05:57 | |
or some of the larger boarding schools in the country. | 0:05:57 | 0:06:00 | |
But it's quite an imposing school, I think, | 0:06:00 | 0:06:04 | |
if you see it for the first time, certainly as a 12-year-old boy, | 0:06:04 | 0:06:09 | |
I found it pretty imposing, but you get used to it. | 0:06:09 | 0:06:13 | |
When we decided to accept Andrew into the school, | 0:06:15 | 0:06:18 | |
the information I had indicated that he could behave inappropriately sometimes, | 0:06:18 | 0:06:24 | |
he would be attention seeking, | 0:06:24 | 0:06:27 | |
but that kind of behaviour isn't all that unusual | 0:06:27 | 0:06:30 | |
in people of that age, | 0:06:30 | 0:06:33 | |
sometimes in people of any age. | 0:06:33 | 0:06:34 | |
And when Andrew came for interview with his parents, | 0:06:34 | 0:06:39 | |
I was struck by a certain vulnerability | 0:06:39 | 0:06:42 | |
because he was quite a big fellow | 0:06:42 | 0:06:45 | |
but, at the same time, when I questioned him, | 0:06:45 | 0:06:48 | |
he was rather tearful. | 0:06:48 | 0:06:50 | |
I remember also asking him what would he really like, | 0:06:50 | 0:06:53 | |
expecting him perhaps to say something about his future career, | 0:06:53 | 0:06:57 | |
and he said, "A good girlfriend," which was an unexpected answer. | 0:06:57 | 0:07:02 | |
I've never had one like that since, | 0:07:02 | 0:07:05 | |
so that was rather intriguing. | 0:07:05 | 0:07:07 | |
He was quite interesting because it's always interesting when someone's been expelled | 0:07:09 | 0:07:14 | |
and has arrived at your school. | 0:07:14 | 0:07:16 | |
It's... | 0:07:16 | 0:07:17 | |
something you're really experienced to yet. | 0:07:17 | 0:07:21 | |
I think there was this allure of the bad boy. | 0:07:21 | 0:07:23 | |
He sort of forged this character for himself, | 0:07:23 | 0:07:26 | |
and I think he then was forced to keep that going. | 0:07:26 | 0:07:29 | |
He got caught drinking quite a few times, | 0:07:34 | 0:07:37 | |
which isn't unknown, especially at a small boarding school | 0:07:37 | 0:07:40 | |
in the middle of Somerset, | 0:07:40 | 0:07:42 | |
but he was sort of slightly different | 0:07:42 | 0:07:45 | |
in where everyone was drinking beer, maybe he'd drink vodka. | 0:07:45 | 0:07:49 | |
And he would get caught almost like he wanted to get caught. | 0:07:50 | 0:07:54 | |
What we know about Ibrahim, and we sort of went over all his background | 0:07:59 | 0:08:03 | |
as part of our investigation, is that he clearly, | 0:08:03 | 0:08:06 | |
throughout his sort of teenage years particularly, | 0:08:06 | 0:08:09 | |
struggled, erm, to find friends. | 0:08:09 | 0:08:12 | |
And he'd had some issues at schools, such as being expelled, | 0:08:12 | 0:08:15 | |
and perhaps some of his conduct at his school | 0:08:15 | 0:08:18 | |
was indicative of somebody trying to be wanted by friends and peers. | 0:08:18 | 0:08:22 | |
I think with Andrew, he seemed to be searching all the time. | 0:08:25 | 0:08:29 | |
and always had an idea that if you were something, | 0:08:29 | 0:08:31 | |
you had to dress in a particular way. | 0:08:31 | 0:08:34 | |
Classic example was his skateboarder phase. | 0:08:38 | 0:08:41 | |
He felt you had to wear a certain style of clothing, | 0:08:41 | 0:08:47 | |
you had to talk and act in a certain way. | 0:08:47 | 0:08:49 | |
I think that wanting to be affiliated to something, | 0:08:49 | 0:08:52 | |
some meaning in his life was a driver for him. | 0:08:52 | 0:08:55 | |
Andy arrived in 2004, | 0:09:00 | 0:09:02 | |
I think it was, so the beginning of GCSEs. | 0:09:02 | 0:09:07 | |
I think he was, in the beginning, quite shy, | 0:09:07 | 0:09:10 | |
kind of stood out a lot cos he had this sort of black, short hair. | 0:09:10 | 0:09:14 | |
He was quite funny, he was always laughing, | 0:09:14 | 0:09:16 | |
I can hear his laugh even now. It was quite, quite distinctive. | 0:09:16 | 0:09:20 | |
Andrew had these obsessional hobbies. | 0:09:24 | 0:09:27 | |
The one that sticks out the most is his body building. | 0:09:27 | 0:09:30 | |
He always used to come into the form room with his protein shake. | 0:09:30 | 0:09:35 | |
We used to take the mickey out of him because he was always drinking it, swigging away. | 0:09:35 | 0:09:39 | |
I don't know if Andrew himself knows the reason why he didn't fit in. | 0:09:39 | 0:09:43 | |
In terms of his body image, | 0:09:43 | 0:09:45 | |
he had huge problems with his body image. | 0:09:45 | 0:09:48 | |
From the time he would start the body piercings. | 0:09:48 | 0:09:53 | |
The worst time were the tattoos. | 0:09:53 | 0:09:56 | |
They were absolutely, I felt, awful. | 0:09:57 | 0:10:01 | |
He had a huge tattoo on his back. | 0:10:02 | 0:10:05 | |
It was of an angel. | 0:10:05 | 0:10:07 | |
With huge wings... | 0:10:08 | 0:10:10 | |
..almost encompassing someone. | 0:10:12 | 0:10:14 | |
And I felt so bad that he'd defaced his body in this way, | 0:10:16 | 0:10:21 | |
but I think he did all of this, | 0:10:21 | 0:10:23 | |
the dyed hair, the tattoos, the piercings, | 0:10:23 | 0:10:26 | |
I think he did it all to try and be different. | 0:10:26 | 0:10:30 | |
I think he was just someone who...well, I'd say | 0:10:33 | 0:10:35 | |
I think it was because he was quite clever, | 0:10:35 | 0:10:38 | |
and his brain just wanted something to latch onto and something to get involved with, | 0:10:38 | 0:10:42 | |
but after it, sort of, as these things do, have a shelf life, | 0:10:42 | 0:10:46 | |
he got a little bit bored, and just moved onto something else. | 0:10:46 | 0:10:49 | |
Andrew was 13 when we first discovered | 0:10:53 | 0:10:57 | |
that he had been using cannabis, just cannabis, that was all. | 0:10:57 | 0:11:00 | |
I was obviously upset, but I realised a lot of children experimented with cannabis | 0:11:02 | 0:11:08 | |
and he assured us he wouldn't do it again. | 0:11:08 | 0:11:12 | |
At that time, we had no reason to believe | 0:11:12 | 0:11:15 | |
that he wouldn't keep his word on it. | 0:11:15 | 0:11:17 | |
I knew that there was a certain amount of drug taking going on in the school. | 0:11:19 | 0:11:24 | |
There was sort of a group, I suppose they were the skaters | 0:11:24 | 0:11:27 | |
or the rockers or whatever, who used to go out raving | 0:11:27 | 0:11:30 | |
on a Friday night, | 0:11:30 | 0:11:32 | |
and Andy would go along with them. | 0:11:32 | 0:11:34 | |
I think that's the first time he started to take ecstasy. | 0:11:42 | 0:11:45 | |
But I thought that, well, you know, he's got this... | 0:11:45 | 0:11:48 | |
this obsessive personality and it was something that he was going do for a while. | 0:11:48 | 0:11:52 | |
During our GCSE period, | 0:11:54 | 0:11:56 | |
he used cocaine on a couple of occasions | 0:11:56 | 0:11:59 | |
but I seem to remember him saying that it wasn't working, | 0:11:59 | 0:12:03 | |
it wasn't doing what he wanted it to do. | 0:12:03 | 0:12:05 | |
He moved on to using heroin. I said, "What are you doing?" | 0:12:09 | 0:12:13 | |
and he was completely honest and said, "I've done it a few times," | 0:12:13 | 0:12:17 | |
but he said, "I'm not going to do it anymore." | 0:12:17 | 0:12:19 | |
And I believed that. I though, "That's fine," | 0:12:19 | 0:12:23 | |
you know, "OK, you've tried it, you've experienced it, | 0:12:23 | 0:12:25 | |
"but maybe it's not for you and you've stopped." | 0:12:25 | 0:12:28 | |
WRETCHING | 0:12:28 | 0:12:32 | |
Morning. | 0:12:32 | 0:12:34 | |
You all right? | 0:12:36 | 0:12:38 | |
-Go away. -Hm, Andy? | 0:12:38 | 0:12:40 | |
Leave me alone! | 0:12:40 | 0:12:42 | |
Where is it? | 0:12:43 | 0:12:44 | |
Where's what? | 0:12:44 | 0:12:46 | |
-Where is it? -Where's what? | 0:12:52 | 0:12:54 | |
What are you doing? Mum! | 0:12:54 | 0:12:56 | |
Shh! You haven't got a clue, have you? | 0:12:56 | 0:12:59 | |
What you're doing to us? All of us? | 0:12:59 | 0:13:02 | |
Don't you dare. Look at me. | 0:13:02 | 0:13:04 | |
-Where is it? -Get off, I'm going to be sick! Mum! | 0:13:06 | 0:13:09 | |
Mum's not coming up here. Do you think she wants to see you like this, again? | 0:13:09 | 0:13:14 | |
We've tried everything. Everything, haven't we? | 0:13:14 | 0:13:17 | |
-Stop laughing. -I'm going to kill you. -Yeah? Yeah? Huh? | 0:13:20 | 0:13:24 | |
Mum! | 0:13:26 | 0:13:27 | |
Shh, keep your voice down! | 0:13:27 | 0:13:29 | |
Have you looked at yourself? Hm? | 0:13:31 | 0:13:34 | |
What are you doing? | 0:13:36 | 0:13:37 | |
What are you doing? Mum! | 0:13:37 | 0:13:39 | |
Look at yourself. That's you! Andy the junkie, yeah? | 0:13:41 | 0:13:45 | |
I'm going to show this to you every time you even think about taking drugs. | 0:13:45 | 0:13:49 | |
You should be ashamed of yourself. | 0:13:49 | 0:13:52 | |
We're a good family, Andrew. | 0:13:53 | 0:13:55 | |
As a family, we'd been experiencing difficulties for some time. | 0:14:01 | 0:14:06 | |
And after discussion, it was felt that Andrew and I would | 0:14:06 | 0:14:09 | |
leave the family home, we would go by ourselves, for some time. | 0:14:09 | 0:14:14 | |
I felt we could perhaps sort things out between us, | 0:14:14 | 0:14:19 | |
and Andrew would settle down. | 0:14:19 | 0:14:21 | |
During this time, his drug use got much worse. | 0:14:21 | 0:14:25 | |
About a year later, after he'd left the cathedral school, I saw him | 0:14:25 | 0:14:29 | |
on College Green, and he was sort of scratching | 0:14:29 | 0:14:32 | |
and sort of incoherent when he was talking. | 0:14:32 | 0:14:35 | |
And I was really quite shocked... | 0:14:35 | 0:14:39 | |
Yeah, left me quite shaken, seeing him the way that he was, | 0:14:39 | 0:14:42 | |
cos he was obviously in a very bad way. | 0:14:42 | 0:14:44 | |
I remember one day going in his bedroom, | 0:14:48 | 0:14:51 | |
and finding him lying on the bed. | 0:14:51 | 0:14:54 | |
His eyes were rolling back in his head. | 0:14:57 | 0:15:00 | |
I didn't know if he was going to live or die. | 0:15:01 | 0:15:04 | |
I remember another time going in his wardrobe, | 0:15:04 | 0:15:07 | |
opening the door of his wardrobe, and finding his belt in a lasso. | 0:15:07 | 0:15:14 | |
He'd obviously used it as a tourniquet. | 0:15:14 | 0:15:16 | |
You never forget these images. | 0:15:18 | 0:15:20 | |
Our religion is Islam. Obedience to the one true God. Allah. | 0:15:24 | 0:15:29 | |
I was certainly surprised to hear that Andrew had converted to Islam. | 0:15:30 | 0:15:35 | |
But to somebody fighting addiction and self absorption... | 0:15:35 | 0:15:42 | |
then the turnaround of embracing a very strong, | 0:15:42 | 0:15:46 | |
clear faith could well be attractive. | 0:15:46 | 0:15:48 | |
Some of Andy's friends came to pick him up. I think it was a Saturday. | 0:15:51 | 0:15:56 | |
He'd been out with them a few times, and I thought nothing of it at all. | 0:15:56 | 0:16:00 | |
The day passed quite normally. He came home that night and said, | 0:16:00 | 0:16:05 | |
"I've converted and become a Muslim." | 0:16:05 | 0:16:08 | |
I think my first reaction was, "Oh, God, not again, something else!" | 0:16:08 | 0:16:13 | |
We expected it was just another fad. It really wouldn't last long. | 0:16:14 | 0:16:20 | |
Because nothing else had lasted long. | 0:16:20 | 0:16:22 | |
From what we know, | 0:16:25 | 0:16:27 | |
on the anniversary of 7/7... | 0:16:27 | 0:16:30 | |
so, on 7th July 2006, | 0:16:30 | 0:16:33 | |
he became a Muslim. | 0:16:33 | 0:16:35 | |
After these 7/7 attacks... | 0:16:37 | 0:16:40 | |
I, at the time, was having stones thrown at my car... | 0:16:40 | 0:16:43 | |
..Rocks, big boulders. I remember women who were wearing the burka | 0:16:45 | 0:16:50 | |
having it ripped off their face. | 0:16:50 | 0:16:52 | |
I remember graffiti being plastered all around the area, | 0:16:52 | 0:16:55 | |
paki this, or terrorist that, or go home, etc, well, for me, | 0:16:55 | 0:16:59 | |
this is my home, what do you mean? | 0:16:59 | 0:17:02 | |
And that's where these questions about identity came. | 0:17:02 | 0:17:05 | |
Asking us, "Are you British, Muslim, Asian? | 0:17:05 | 0:17:07 | |
"Or are you Asian, British, Muslim? What are you first?" | 0:17:07 | 0:17:10 | |
And these are questions the Muslim community never were asked before. They didn't know how to answer. | 0:17:10 | 0:17:15 | |
Andrew's father was Egyptian and I'm English. | 0:17:15 | 0:17:19 | |
I never thought Andrew had a problem with this. | 0:17:19 | 0:17:22 | |
But as the years have gone by, | 0:17:22 | 0:17:25 | |
I think he felt he didn't feel either English or Egyptian. | 0:17:25 | 0:17:30 | |
His brother never had any issues with this, | 0:17:33 | 0:17:35 | |
his brother felt he was entirely English. | 0:17:35 | 0:17:38 | |
I don't quite know why Andrew felt different. | 0:17:38 | 0:17:43 | |
The first time I met Isa would be... | 0:17:44 | 0:17:47 | |
the very first lesson that we had in college. | 0:17:47 | 0:17:50 | |
He told me he was doing... | 0:17:50 | 0:17:52 | |
biology, chemistry, English and history. | 0:17:52 | 0:17:56 | |
He said he wanted to do something in pharmaceutical science. | 0:17:56 | 0:18:00 | |
Not the most organised of people. | 0:18:00 | 0:18:02 | |
He'd always turn up without pens, paper, | 0:18:02 | 0:18:04 | |
he'd always asks to copy my homework last minute, | 0:18:04 | 0:18:07 | |
so he was a bit cheeky. | 0:18:07 | 0:18:08 | |
But apart from the lack of organisation skills, he seemed OK. | 0:18:08 | 0:18:12 | |
Page six. You should all know the answer to this one by now. | 0:18:16 | 0:18:19 | |
Hydrochloric acid, and what is its formula? | 0:18:19 | 0:18:22 | |
-Andrew? -What about anthrax, miss? -What about anthrax? | 0:18:23 | 0:18:27 | |
Is it the best biological agent for killing people? | 0:18:27 | 0:18:30 | |
Andrew, even if I knew the answer to that, which I don't, | 0:18:30 | 0:18:34 | |
do you think it would be irresponsible of me to say? | 0:18:34 | 0:18:38 | |
-Isa. -Sorry? -Isa. | 0:18:38 | 0:18:40 | |
Andrew is my Western name. I'm Muslim now. | 0:18:40 | 0:18:44 | |
Right. OK, class. | 0:18:44 | 0:18:47 | |
Look, we can all carry on preparing for our exam, or if you prefer, | 0:18:47 | 0:18:52 | |
we can all sit around and watch Andrew seek attention. | 0:18:52 | 0:18:55 | |
It was only a question, miss! There's no need to get all pissy about it. | 0:18:55 | 0:18:59 | |
-I mean, this is chemistry, isn't it? -Yes, and it's also college, | 0:18:59 | 0:19:02 | |
which means it's not compulsory to be here, if you don't want to learn. | 0:19:02 | 0:19:05 | |
-OK, right, moving on. Question 12. -Hey, Isa! | 0:19:07 | 0:19:10 | |
You going to blow us all up then, are you?! | 0:19:10 | 0:19:13 | |
-LAUGHTER -Enough! Please! | 0:19:13 | 0:19:15 | |
What is its formula? | 0:19:17 | 0:19:20 | |
-You don't fucking know me! -ALL: Oooh! | 0:19:21 | 0:19:24 | |
Andrew, that's enough. Enough! | 0:19:24 | 0:19:27 | |
-Andrew! Enough! -Fucking... -Andrew! | 0:19:27 | 0:19:31 | |
He talked about politics quite a lot. He had very strong views. | 0:19:34 | 0:19:38 | |
It caused uproar in our classes when he mentioned anything like that. | 0:19:38 | 0:19:41 | |
Everyone got really annoyed and upset about it. | 0:19:41 | 0:19:44 | |
We know that Ibrahim was accessing the Internet at three or four main places. | 0:19:49 | 0:19:54 | |
College, the library in Bristol and his parents' address. | 0:19:54 | 0:19:58 | |
We're calling for the British public and the British government to wake up. Withdraw your forces. | 0:19:58 | 0:20:04 | |
He was initially looking at, I suppose, general news. | 0:20:04 | 0:20:06 | |
He seemed to have quite a liking to Abu Hamza. | 0:20:06 | 0:20:10 | |
He had a hook instead of a hand. | 0:20:10 | 0:20:13 | |
I don't really know what happened to it. | 0:20:13 | 0:20:16 | |
Faith. Shoot and loot. They're all enemies of Islam. | 0:20:16 | 0:20:19 | |
The one guy in our class who was going on to do prosthetics at uni, | 0:20:19 | 0:20:22 | |
he asked him if he could like built him an arm, | 0:20:22 | 0:20:26 | |
which was kind of weird at the time. | 0:20:26 | 0:20:28 | |
But Isa was getting really serious about it and was like, | 0:20:29 | 0:20:32 | |
"Seriously, he needs an arm, can you please help?" | 0:20:32 | 0:20:35 | |
And so we all just laughed it off, | 0:20:35 | 0:20:37 | |
but he really did like kind of idolise him, I guess. | 0:20:37 | 0:20:40 | |
You couldn't really question his views, because they were so extreme. | 0:20:43 | 0:20:46 | |
He wouldn't listen to anyone else, whatever anyone else had to say. | 0:20:46 | 0:20:49 | |
We were always wrong, he was always right. | 0:20:49 | 0:20:52 | |
Blair is guilty of war crimes and should be sent to the Hague. | 0:20:52 | 0:20:56 | |
9/11, the 7/7 bombings! All a conspiracy by Blair. | 0:20:57 | 0:21:01 | |
A conspiracy by Blair to generate support of the war, | 0:21:01 | 0:21:04 | |
so that hundreds and thousands of innocent Muslims... | 0:21:04 | 0:21:08 | |
I'm not talking 50 Westerners, I'm talking hundreds | 0:21:08 | 0:21:11 | |
and thousands of men, women and children murdered, and for what? | 0:21:11 | 0:21:16 | |
-For oil. For greed! -Andy, what are you talking about?! | 0:21:16 | 0:21:19 | |
And a conspiracy against the state of Islam! | 0:21:19 | 0:21:22 | |
-And you, the British people, elected them! -Andy! -You're responsible! | 0:21:22 | 0:21:26 | |
-Which means you're all complicit! -Sorry, this isn't the message we're trying to get here. -This is anti-war. | 0:21:26 | 0:21:31 | |
-Blood is on your hands! Blood is on your hands! On your hands! -Andy! | 0:21:31 | 0:21:37 | |
Complicit. Complicit. | 0:21:37 | 0:21:39 | |
Complicit. | 0:21:39 | 0:21:41 | |
We came back from half-term, and from going from wearing | 0:21:46 | 0:21:50 | |
tracksuit bottoms, hoodies, trainers, | 0:21:50 | 0:21:53 | |
he just came in in a full robe, | 0:21:53 | 0:21:55 | |
like, hat and everything, and it was just like, "OK." | 0:21:55 | 0:22:00 | |
When Isa first came into the faith, he suddenly found | 0:22:01 | 0:22:05 | |
a new focus. A new obsession, even. | 0:22:05 | 0:22:08 | |
He's coming to Islam. He's new. | 0:22:08 | 0:22:12 | |
He wants to learn everything, like a sponge, just absorbing everything. | 0:22:12 | 0:22:16 | |
But then he wanted to go that little bit further. | 0:22:16 | 0:22:19 | |
Like he did, as he has a habit, he wanted to go that little bit further. | 0:22:19 | 0:22:25 | |
It was evident that he was radicalised to a great degree by what he saw on the Internet. | 0:22:25 | 0:22:30 | |
Britain is the one who taught America how to kill and oppress Muslims in the first place. | 0:22:30 | 0:22:34 | |
When we looked at his usage of the Internet, he was getting almost addicted to more extremism. | 0:22:34 | 0:22:40 | |
He picked up on, particularly, the 7/7 bombers. | 0:22:40 | 0:22:44 | |
On his computer, he had kept their speeches. He almost idolised them. | 0:22:44 | 0:22:50 | |
"I'm going to keep this short and to the point, | 0:22:57 | 0:23:00 | |
"because it's all been said before | 0:23:00 | 0:23:02 | |
"by far more eloquent people than me." | 0:23:02 | 0:23:04 | |
Our words are dead until we give them life with our blood. | 0:23:04 | 0:23:09 | |
I remember seeing Isa Ibrahim in the mosque. | 0:23:10 | 0:23:14 | |
His dress code had changed, he was dressing more conservatively, | 0:23:14 | 0:23:17 | |
he had the beard, which isn't a problem, that's fine, | 0:23:17 | 0:23:21 | |
but he was a very confused character. | 0:23:21 | 0:23:25 | |
I knew that he was going from mosque to mosque to mosque, he was | 0:23:25 | 0:23:28 | |
looking for a sense of belonging which he didn't get in Bristol. | 0:23:28 | 0:23:31 | |
Because no-one was preaching that hardline terrorist ideology. | 0:23:31 | 0:23:35 | |
-What about suicide bombings? -How can you say it's wrong? | 0:23:35 | 0:23:39 | |
The way I see it, they are defending Islam and the Umma. | 0:23:39 | 0:23:43 | |
They're retaliating from the aggression against Muslims, | 0:23:43 | 0:23:46 | |
coming from Israel, the US, Britain too. | 0:23:46 | 0:23:48 | |
Rather than war, concentrate on learning your faith. | 0:23:48 | 0:23:53 | |
Because then, you will know that Islam clearly prohibits | 0:23:53 | 0:23:56 | |
-killing of innocents. -How can you say that when they're murdering us? | 0:23:56 | 0:24:00 | |
The West brought the war to us, not the other way around. | 0:24:00 | 0:24:03 | |
And you are talking about things you have little or no knowledge of. | 0:24:03 | 0:24:08 | |
Al-Qaeda is brilliant on the Internet. | 0:24:08 | 0:24:12 | |
Type in "suicide bombing, Islam", and I guarantee you, | 0:24:19 | 0:24:24 | |
within 10 clicks, you will get to extreme websites, | 0:24:24 | 0:24:29 | |
showing the most extreme, horrific images, and you get sucked into this. | 0:24:29 | 0:24:34 | |
I've seen it myself. And all these websites will tell you | 0:24:34 | 0:24:37 | |
about Muslims being massacred all over the place, | 0:24:37 | 0:24:40 | |
India, Palestine, Chechnya, Iraq, Afghanistan, | 0:24:40 | 0:24:44 | |
and every site you go to will say to you, "It's because you're Muslim." | 0:24:44 | 0:24:50 | |
"They hate you because you're Muslim." | 0:24:50 | 0:24:53 | |
"And by the way, there is a long ongoing war. | 0:24:54 | 0:24:57 | |
"This hasn't just started with Iraq. | 0:24:57 | 0:24:59 | |
"This started from the day Islam was born." | 0:24:59 | 0:25:01 | |
And every site you go to will say to you, | 0:25:01 | 0:25:05 | |
"During the time of the Crusades, | 0:25:05 | 0:25:06 | |
they thought so little of your men, women and children, | 0:25:06 | 0:25:09 | |
"they roasted baby Muslims on spits and ate them." | 0:25:09 | 0:25:14 | |
"They didn't even consider you human beings." | 0:25:14 | 0:25:16 | |
And you think, "Well, that's a bit far-fetched. | 0:25:16 | 0:25:19 | |
"They didn't do that." | 0:25:19 | 0:25:21 | |
And then, they encourage you, "Find out. | 0:25:21 | 0:25:24 | |
"It's recorded in the Crusader journals." | 0:25:24 | 0:25:26 | |
"Oh, they actually did this." | 0:25:26 | 0:25:28 | |
"I've now come across a treasure trove of information. | 0:25:29 | 0:25:34 | |
"I am now special. | 0:25:34 | 0:25:35 | |
"I am now enlightened. I'm different to the sleeping Muslims | 0:25:35 | 0:25:39 | |
"who don't know what's going on." | 0:25:39 | 0:25:41 | |
This country is a dirty toilet. It's surrounded by minefields. | 0:25:41 | 0:25:44 | |
Who you have been listening to, those words are the rhetoric | 0:25:44 | 0:25:48 | |
of people who distort the Koran to make you hate. | 0:25:48 | 0:25:51 | |
Islam will dominate the UK as well! Allahu Akbar. | 0:25:51 | 0:25:56 | |
Tell me, honestly, now, who are you being attacked by? | 0:25:56 | 0:26:00 | |
Who are you defending yourself against? Who is driving you out? | 0:26:00 | 0:26:06 | |
Allahu Akbar. | 0:26:06 | 0:26:08 | |
When Andrew Isa was exploring Islam, | 0:26:12 | 0:26:15 | |
he visited a number of mosques. | 0:26:15 | 0:26:17 | |
HE PRAYS | 0:26:17 | 0:26:19 | |
I don't think he settled at any one in particular, | 0:26:23 | 0:26:26 | |
so he obviously didn't find what he was looking for. | 0:26:26 | 0:26:29 | |
Allahu Akbar. | 0:26:29 | 0:26:31 | |
I think that's why his use of the Internet actually increased. | 0:26:34 | 0:26:38 | |
We are diseased in our thoughts, in our minds. | 0:26:38 | 0:26:42 | |
Learning what the enemy wants us to learn! | 0:26:42 | 0:26:44 | |
HE PRAYS | 0:26:44 | 0:26:45 | |
My concern was, you know, | 0:26:47 | 0:26:50 | |
he's actually now moving away from the mosques... | 0:26:50 | 0:26:53 | |
IMAM: Allahu Akbar. | 0:26:55 | 0:26:57 | |
They are attacking the Muslims in a secret, subtle way. | 0:26:58 | 0:27:04 | |
..to a form of Islam which we know, actually, can lead to death | 0:27:04 | 0:27:09 | |
and violence and, that Al-Qaeda ideology that has swept the world. | 0:27:09 | 0:27:14 | |
HE PRAYS | 0:27:14 | 0:27:18 | |
Excuse me. Oi, excuse me. I like your pyjamas, | 0:27:27 | 0:27:31 | |
-where did you get them from?! -Oi, mate! Islam's that way! | 0:27:31 | 0:27:36 | |
What you fucking say, rag head! | 0:27:38 | 0:27:41 | |
People fairly regularly shouted abuse at him | 0:27:41 | 0:27:44 | |
because of the way he was dressed. | 0:27:44 | 0:27:46 | |
In a way, I think it made him stronger in his belief. | 0:27:48 | 0:27:51 | |
Nothing was going to make him change his mind | 0:27:53 | 0:27:57 | |
about what he believed, or the way he felt he should dress. | 0:27:57 | 0:28:01 | |
-Where to, mate? -Town. | 0:28:01 | 0:28:03 | |
"Your democratically elected governments continuously | 0:28:07 | 0:28:10 | |
"perpetrate atrocities against my people all over the world. | 0:28:10 | 0:28:14 | |
"Supporting these governments makes you directly responsible." | 0:28:14 | 0:28:18 | |
Brother, are you Muslim? Brother? | 0:28:20 | 0:28:23 | |
-You're going to have to speak up pal! -You're Muslim though, yeah? | 0:28:23 | 0:28:26 | |
-Yeah, yeah, I'm a Muslim. -Do you get a hard time in this country, | 0:28:26 | 0:28:29 | |
-in the UK? -From who, brother? -From the people, my friend! | 0:28:29 | 0:28:32 | |
From the Westerners that hate you! | 0:28:32 | 0:28:34 | |
You know, after the bombings in London, after 9/11. | 0:28:34 | 0:28:36 | |
I am a Westerner myself anyway. I was born here, brother. | 0:28:36 | 0:28:39 | |
I was born here, and I don't hate myself, I'll tell you that. | 0:28:39 | 0:28:42 | |
Yeah, well you should. You should hate yourself! | 0:28:42 | 0:28:46 | |
See, you are apathetic! You need to wake up, brother! | 0:28:46 | 0:28:49 | |
You need to open your eyes to what is happening! | 0:28:49 | 0:28:52 | |
During this time, Andrew became more involved in Islam. | 0:28:54 | 0:28:58 | |
We are all slaves of Allah, | 0:28:58 | 0:29:01 | |
and we stand side by side. | 0:29:01 | 0:29:02 | |
He'd listen to tapes of particular speakers that he liked. | 0:29:02 | 0:29:06 | |
What about the terrorism of the Western regimes? | 0:29:06 | 0:29:08 | |
He gave us Islamic leaflets. He wanted us to read them. | 0:29:08 | 0:29:12 | |
When's it going to stop? People need to know. | 0:29:12 | 0:29:16 | |
He'd sort of almost lecture us, really. | 0:29:16 | 0:29:18 | |
They're going to kick your door down when you're in bed with your wife! | 0:29:18 | 0:29:22 | |
In a way, he wanted us to convert. | 0:29:22 | 0:29:24 | |
You have openly declared war on Islam. | 0:29:24 | 0:29:27 | |
The foreigners crusade against the Muslims. | 0:29:27 | 0:29:30 | |
Another example of Andy having no middle ground about anything. | 0:29:30 | 0:29:34 | |
I don't want to hear any more of this. | 0:29:35 | 0:29:37 | |
-I'm just trying to educate you! -Come out the car! | 0:29:37 | 0:29:39 | |
-I have money. Please drive the car. -I don't want your money. | 0:29:39 | 0:29:42 | |
Please, brother, get out of my car, now! Please! | 0:29:42 | 0:29:44 | |
-That's my bag. -Right, that's your bag. Go! | 0:29:46 | 0:29:49 | |
Thank you, thank you. | 0:29:49 | 0:29:50 | |
There you go, brother, have a good day. Salaam aleikum. | 0:29:50 | 0:29:54 | |
There was one chemistry lesson. Isa came in a bit late. | 0:30:01 | 0:30:04 | |
He didn't really get on with the task, instead he was really excited | 0:30:04 | 0:30:08 | |
about the stuff he'd found on the internet. | 0:30:08 | 0:30:11 | |
He wrote down quite a few equations, how to make bombs out of household ingredients, | 0:30:11 | 0:30:15 | |
hair dye, nail polish remover, and stuff like that. | 0:30:15 | 0:30:18 | |
Another time we went shopping, just because we had a break from college, | 0:30:18 | 0:30:22 | |
we decided to go into the Galleries, and we were walking around, and Isa just randomly said, | 0:30:22 | 0:30:27 | |
"Could you imagine if there was a bomb scare now? Imagine like the terror it would cause." | 0:30:27 | 0:30:32 | |
Which was really, really weird at the time. | 0:30:33 | 0:30:35 | |
I was like, "Oh my god, OK! I don't quite know what to say to that!" | 0:30:35 | 0:30:39 | |
So I just changed the subject. | 0:30:39 | 0:30:41 | |
Well, after he'd been to the shopping centre, | 0:30:45 | 0:30:48 | |
and conducted his recce, | 0:30:48 | 0:30:51 | |
he then set on, acquiring all the things he needed | 0:30:51 | 0:30:54 | |
to make his explosives, and also to make a detonating device. | 0:30:54 | 0:30:59 | |
Excuse me, please. | 0:31:00 | 0:31:03 | |
-Can I get some Hydrogen Peroxide? -Yes. | 0:31:03 | 0:31:05 | |
'Support of these governments makes you directly responsible...' | 0:31:05 | 0:31:09 | |
I need to get as much heat from the bulb, using batteries as small as possible. | 0:31:09 | 0:31:12 | |
Can I get another bottle? | 0:31:12 | 0:31:14 | |
'..Just as I am directly responsible for protecting and avenging my Muslim brothers and sisters.' | 0:31:14 | 0:31:20 | |
That went over a number of days, | 0:31:31 | 0:31:34 | |
but certainly, from different shops around the city, | 0:31:34 | 0:31:36 | |
he secured everything he needed to make that homemade explosives. | 0:31:36 | 0:31:40 | |
There was also wiring, | 0:31:40 | 0:31:42 | |
and detonation circuits, | 0:31:42 | 0:31:45 | |
so switches, wiring, bulbs, that sort of thing. | 0:31:45 | 0:31:48 | |
And then, another thing that was of great concern | 0:31:48 | 0:31:51 | |
was he'd made a suicide vest. | 0:31:51 | 0:31:54 | |
So hanging behind his bedroom door | 0:31:54 | 0:31:58 | |
was a homemade suicide vest. | 0:31:58 | 0:31:59 | |
There was a time when Andrew became apparently suicidal. | 0:32:02 | 0:32:07 | |
He got a tie, tied it around a pipe in the washroom. | 0:32:07 | 0:32:13 | |
He also mentioned that he'd been rather influenced | 0:32:13 | 0:32:16 | |
by "Kurt Coblain", I think it was... | 0:32:16 | 0:32:20 | |
who had committed suicide and was something of a cult figure. | 0:32:20 | 0:32:23 | |
Now, any interest or attraction in suicides amongst young people | 0:32:23 | 0:32:28 | |
is always very serious. | 0:32:28 | 0:32:30 | |
But it was difficult to diagnose how serious that attraction was. | 0:32:30 | 0:32:35 | |
And there was a slightly sort of playful - | 0:32:35 | 0:32:37 | |
well, that sounds entirely the wrong word - | 0:32:37 | 0:32:40 | |
but a sort of play element about it, possibly. | 0:32:40 | 0:32:42 | |
And I suppose one could say that in that sense, | 0:32:42 | 0:32:45 | |
the call for attention was evident. | 0:32:45 | 0:32:48 | |
I think he felt sad that we'd sent him there. | 0:32:50 | 0:32:55 | |
At the time, we felt it was the right thing to do. | 0:32:55 | 0:32:58 | |
It was only later that he told us... | 0:32:59 | 0:33:01 | |
..he felt abandoned. | 0:33:02 | 0:33:04 | |
Our words have no impact upon you. | 0:33:19 | 0:33:22 | |
Our words have no impact upon you. Our words are dead. | 0:33:26 | 0:33:30 | |
Towards the end of Andrew's GCSEs, | 0:33:33 | 0:33:35 | |
that's when things started to take a change for the worst. | 0:33:35 | 0:33:39 | |
He would text me very late in the night, or in the early hours of the morning, | 0:33:39 | 0:33:43 | |
explaining that he wasn't happy with his life, | 0:33:43 | 0:33:46 | |
and how that he needed it to all come to an end. | 0:33:46 | 0:33:49 | |
Sometimes, he told me that he had taken drugs | 0:33:49 | 0:33:53 | |
to try and overdose, | 0:33:53 | 0:33:55 | |
to put an end to it all so he could leave it behind. | 0:33:55 | 0:34:00 | |
He just made it very clear to me that he wasn't happy, | 0:34:02 | 0:34:06 | |
and that he was suicidal. | 0:34:06 | 0:34:08 | |
He was prepared to take his own life | 0:34:08 | 0:34:10 | |
because things were not going the way that he wanted them to. | 0:34:10 | 0:34:14 | |
We'd already stayed a year together. | 0:34:22 | 0:34:25 | |
His drug worker helped him then get on the council list, | 0:34:25 | 0:34:30 | |
and he was given a flat in Westbury-on-Trym. | 0:34:30 | 0:34:35 | |
It had been left in a bad condition by a previous tenant, | 0:34:35 | 0:34:39 | |
so his brother, his father and I | 0:34:39 | 0:34:42 | |
all helped re-decorate the flat, | 0:34:42 | 0:34:44 | |
furnish it, get it into a nice state. | 0:34:44 | 0:34:47 | |
We'd see him three or four times a week. | 0:34:49 | 0:34:52 | |
We provided food for him in bulk, which he would freeze. | 0:34:53 | 0:34:57 | |
Things seemed to be on the up. | 0:34:57 | 0:34:59 | |
He was polite, | 0:34:59 | 0:35:01 | |
there was no hostility, or rudeness, or anything. | 0:35:01 | 0:35:05 | |
It was, in a way, one of the nicer times that we were with Andrew. | 0:35:05 | 0:35:10 | |
I, and thousands like me, are forsaking everything for what we believe. | 0:35:16 | 0:35:20 | |
It's a very short space of time from being a normal... | 0:35:20 | 0:35:23 | |
..law-abiding Muslim, | 0:35:24 | 0:35:27 | |
to one that is willing to go to... | 0:35:27 | 0:35:30 | |
..horrific lengths. | 0:35:31 | 0:35:33 | |
The Internet, the Al-Qaeda narrative will push... 24/7. | 0:35:35 | 0:35:39 | |
"Where were you? Get online. I haven't seen you for a while. Get online. Tick tick tick tick". | 0:35:39 | 0:35:44 | |
Stay connected to this individual, so give them no time whatsoever | 0:35:44 | 0:35:48 | |
to think about what they've just heard, or question what they've just heard. | 0:35:48 | 0:35:51 | |
And the sites are there, telling you all the time, | 0:35:59 | 0:36:02 | |
cos you get little buddies coming up, who will be your friend, who'll explain all this to you. | 0:36:02 | 0:36:06 | |
"You are special." | 0:36:07 | 0:36:10 | |
"This is providence." | 0:36:10 | 0:36:11 | |
"You didn't just come on this site by coincidence. | 0:36:21 | 0:36:24 | |
"God has guided you here, yeah? | 0:36:24 | 0:36:27 | |
So you may be, for example, a petty criminal on this earth, | 0:36:27 | 0:36:31 | |
credit card fraud now and again. | 0:36:31 | 0:36:34 | |
But this website, it will say, "Hold on, this is a skill. | 0:36:34 | 0:36:37 | |
"God has put you in this position, | 0:36:37 | 0:36:40 | |
"because there's a war against Islam, don't you know? | 0:36:40 | 0:36:42 | |
"And you are now its defender." | 0:36:42 | 0:36:45 | |
So, in your mind, you've gone from an utter idiot, failure in life, | 0:36:48 | 0:36:53 | |
to suddenly, "Ah, so that's what God's had planned for me!" | 0:36:53 | 0:36:57 | |
You feel justified. | 0:36:58 | 0:37:00 | |
You feel a full-grown soldier, | 0:37:00 | 0:37:02 | |
and you're taking part in a real war. | 0:37:02 | 0:37:05 | |
And you can get anything off the net nowadays. | 0:37:05 | 0:37:08 | |
You can learn how to do anything off the Internet, | 0:37:08 | 0:37:11 | |
And it's really easy. It's not even difficult. | 0:37:11 | 0:37:14 | |
Get what you want, have a little explosion. Wow! | 0:37:14 | 0:37:16 | |
"I did a little explosion!" | 0:37:18 | 0:37:20 | |
Get a lot of little cap guns together, put it together. Bang! Slightly bigger explosion. | 0:37:20 | 0:37:25 | |
Get a bit of hydrogen peroxide, bit of hair colouring, | 0:37:25 | 0:37:28 | |
Bang! That's a bigger explosion! | 0:37:28 | 0:37:32 | |
It's easy to do. And when you have that first explosion, | 0:37:32 | 0:37:35 | |
"Whoa! I've arrived. I'm here. I'm doing it, look! | 0:37:35 | 0:37:39 | |
"I'm defending the nation!" | 0:37:39 | 0:37:41 | |
Hi, everyone. Today's experiment is with HMTD, | 0:37:41 | 0:37:45 | |
or hexamethylene triperoxide diamine. | 0:37:45 | 0:37:48 | |
'One of the things that we found,' | 0:37:53 | 0:37:55 | |
was a clip of film that he'd taken with his mobile phone, | 0:37:55 | 0:37:59 | |
and it was a clip of film which shows him in his flat experimenting | 0:37:59 | 0:38:03 | |
with a small quantity of his homemade explosive... | 0:38:03 | 0:38:06 | |
..potentially showing people | 0:38:08 | 0:38:10 | |
how "clever" he was in being able to make this. | 0:38:10 | 0:38:13 | |
I'm going to keep this short and to the point, | 0:38:17 | 0:38:20 | |
because it's all been said before by far more eloquent people than me. | 0:38:20 | 0:38:23 | |
Our words have no impact upon you. | 0:38:25 | 0:38:27 | |
Our words are dead... | 0:38:28 | 0:38:29 | |
..until we give them life with our blood. | 0:38:31 | 0:38:33 | |
Fuck! | 0:38:37 | 0:38:39 | |
Shit! | 0:38:44 | 0:38:45 | |
I was speaking with Andy almost every day. | 0:39:07 | 0:39:10 | |
There was no indication whatsoever | 0:39:11 | 0:39:15 | |
that he was planning anything, | 0:39:15 | 0:39:17 | |
or that his thinking was anything other than normal. | 0:39:17 | 0:39:20 | |
If we had suspected, in any way, | 0:39:21 | 0:39:24 | |
of course we would have done something. | 0:39:24 | 0:39:26 | |
We're decent, upright people. | 0:39:29 | 0:39:31 | |
We would never have allowed any of this if we had known of it, | 0:39:31 | 0:39:34 | |
but we had no idea he was doing these things. | 0:39:34 | 0:39:37 | |
Man, what are you doing here? You should be at A&E. | 0:39:52 | 0:39:56 | |
-I can't go to A&E. -Why? | 0:39:56 | 0:39:59 | |
Don't ask too many questions. | 0:39:59 | 0:40:01 | |
I don't want any trouble. | 0:40:01 | 0:40:03 | |
You shouldn't be here. This is all wrong. | 0:40:03 | 0:40:05 | |
Just cover yourself up. | 0:40:05 | 0:40:07 | |
Seriously, what's going on? Why did you come here? | 0:40:12 | 0:40:16 | |
Don't know. I panicked. Maybe I didn't want to go through... | 0:40:16 | 0:40:19 | |
You know they're going to throw you out if you carry on like this. | 0:40:19 | 0:40:22 | |
Coming here, covered in cuts and blood, it's a bit weird. | 0:40:22 | 0:40:25 | |
You need medical care. | 0:40:25 | 0:40:27 | |
Mmm. I know. | 0:40:27 | 0:40:28 | |
When it became obvious that there's something wrong here, | 0:40:30 | 0:40:33 | |
I think the communities were in a Catch 22 situation. | 0:40:33 | 0:40:36 | |
They didn't want to overreact. | 0:40:38 | 0:40:41 | |
You know, people have been shot, | 0:40:41 | 0:40:43 | |
people have been killed, under false alarms. | 0:40:43 | 0:40:47 | |
So I think most people would have initially, and did... | 0:40:47 | 0:40:51 | |
just dismiss him. | 0:40:51 | 0:40:52 | |
"It was just the rantings of a fool, | 0:40:52 | 0:40:55 | |
"he's new in the religion, he'll settle down eventually." | 0:40:55 | 0:40:57 | |
You know, "Everyone has their heated moments. | 0:40:57 | 0:41:00 | |
"If he was really doing something, he wouldn't be making such a big deal out of it. | 0:41:00 | 0:41:04 | |
"This is just him searching for attention. | 0:41:04 | 0:41:07 | |
"And if I call the police, | 0:41:07 | 0:41:10 | |
"helicopters, | 0:41:10 | 0:41:12 | |
"door broken in, families being upset, | 0:41:12 | 0:41:14 | |
"Islam is going to be dragged through the streets on the TVs again." | 0:41:14 | 0:41:18 | |
"I don't want to be part of that. I don't want to be the one that did that." | 0:41:19 | 0:41:23 | |
But...the last thing you want to see, as a Muslim, | 0:41:26 | 0:41:30 | |
is for somebody to go and carry that out and you didn't report it. | 0:41:30 | 0:41:34 | |
I remember receiving a call from one of my sergeants saying, | 0:41:38 | 0:41:42 | |
"Boss, you're not going to believe this, | 0:41:42 | 0:41:45 | |
"but we've had some people come to us and say, | 0:41:45 | 0:41:47 | |
"'There's a guy who's got | 0:41:47 | 0:41:49 | |
"blood on his hands, and he's got explosives.'" | 0:41:49 | 0:41:52 | |
We often quite come across people | 0:41:58 | 0:42:00 | |
who play with explosives because it's fun. They get excited by it. | 0:42:00 | 0:42:03 | |
It's not unknown that the boy chemist will make stuff in the garden shed, | 0:42:03 | 0:42:09 | |
and the first the parents will know it | 0:42:09 | 0:42:11 | |
is when the garden shed has blown up. So, for me, I didn't know. | 0:42:11 | 0:42:15 | |
"Am I dealing with a boy chemist, or am I dealing with somebody who's a potential terrorist, | 0:42:15 | 0:42:19 | |
"who's going to set a bomb off in Bristol?" | 0:42:19 | 0:42:21 | |
We are simple people who choose principles over fear. | 0:42:21 | 0:42:25 | |
The difficulty about all the information that we had at the very beginning, | 0:42:25 | 0:42:30 | |
which was a name, was actually, "Where do you go from there?" | 0:42:30 | 0:42:33 | |
We needed to identify who that person was. | 0:42:33 | 0:42:36 | |
"Did anybody know about this person? | 0:42:37 | 0:42:40 | |
"Was he known to the police? | 0:42:40 | 0:42:42 | |
"Was he capable of making explosives? | 0:42:42 | 0:42:44 | |
"Was he involved with others? | 0:42:44 | 0:42:47 | |
"Was this part of a much bigger plot? | 0:42:48 | 0:42:50 | |
"Was he acting alone? | 0:42:50 | 0:42:52 | |
"How close was he to being capable of detonating a device?" | 0:42:52 | 0:42:57 | |
'Allah Akbar.' | 0:42:57 | 0:42:59 | |
EXPLOSION | 0:42:59 | 0:43:02 | |
Our internal enquiries didn't reveal who this might be. | 0:43:02 | 0:43:05 | |
We went back to the other members of the community, | 0:43:05 | 0:43:08 | |
and said, "Can you help us please?" And they came up trumps, they came up with a full name. | 0:43:08 | 0:43:13 | |
Um, that took a number of days. | 0:43:13 | 0:43:15 | |
Isa just stopped turning up to college... | 0:43:15 | 0:43:19 | |
I texted him a few times and there was no reply. | 0:43:23 | 0:43:27 | |
You are directly responsible for the problems in Palestine. | 0:43:27 | 0:43:31 | |
As time went on, we built up a greater picture and a greater understanding | 0:43:31 | 0:43:35 | |
of what sort of individual we were dealing with. | 0:43:35 | 0:43:38 | |
We know that one afternoon he reacted quite aggressively | 0:43:40 | 0:43:45 | |
to a couple of ladies promoting alcohol outside a bar... | 0:43:45 | 0:43:50 | |
..saying it was wrong and inappropriate. | 0:43:52 | 0:43:55 | |
'Over two million innocents died, waiting for a light at the end of a tunnel...' | 0:43:55 | 0:44:01 | |
He certainly, I think, at that time described England as a toilet. | 0:44:01 | 0:44:06 | |
We had information from the Department of Works and Pensions, | 0:44:08 | 0:44:11 | |
that at his last interview he intimated he wasn't going to be claiming benefit in May. | 0:44:11 | 0:44:15 | |
That caused me a lot of concern. | 0:44:17 | 0:44:20 | |
You know, "Don't worry, I'm not going to need my benefits in May." | 0:44:21 | 0:44:24 | |
Why not? We didn't think he was getting a job, so what was he up to? | 0:44:24 | 0:44:28 | |
OK? | 0:44:30 | 0:44:32 | |
HE GROANS Ah! | 0:44:32 | 0:44:35 | |
Fuck! | 0:44:40 | 0:44:42 | |
We knew this individual was spouting quite extremist views... | 0:44:48 | 0:44:52 | |
..And we knew he potentially had been mixing chemicals. | 0:44:58 | 0:45:01 | |
And then, my concern was, well, he was going to go. | 0:45:05 | 0:45:08 | |
We are at war and I'm a soldier... | 0:45:08 | 0:45:11 | |
now you too will taste the reality of the situation... | 0:45:11 | 0:45:14 | |
He was going to go all the way. | 0:45:14 | 0:45:16 | |
He felt that, "If I'm going to be a true Muslim. | 0:45:16 | 0:45:19 | |
"True Muslims give up their life for the cause." | 0:45:19 | 0:45:24 | |
'And the cause he felt was the Al-Qaeda ideology...' | 0:45:27 | 0:45:31 | |
DISTORTED SPEECH | 0:45:31 | 0:45:35 | |
Not mainstream Islam, | 0:45:36 | 0:45:39 | |
that we know is actually a very peaceful religion. | 0:45:39 | 0:45:43 | |
Blood is on the hands of all those who oppress Islam! | 0:45:43 | 0:45:47 | |
Blood...is on the hands... | 0:45:48 | 0:45:51 | |
Blood is on the hands of all those who oppress Islam. | 0:45:54 | 0:45:59 | |
And so it has been asked of Allah... | 0:46:04 | 0:46:08 | |
..to make me Mujahadeen! | 0:46:09 | 0:46:12 | |
And so it has been asked of Allah to make me Mujahadeen, | 0:46:12 | 0:46:15 | |
to make me Shaheed! | 0:46:15 | 0:46:16 | |
To make me Shaheed... | 0:46:16 | 0:46:19 | |
And I have stepped forward and said, "I am ready". | 0:46:19 | 0:46:23 | |
And I have said, "I am ready". | 0:46:26 | 0:46:28 | |
Ready to bring Jihad to the doors of the kuffar! | 0:46:28 | 0:46:32 | |
Ready to bring Jihad to the doors of the kuffar! | 0:46:32 | 0:46:37 | |
'And until you stop the bombing...' This is my destiny! | 0:46:37 | 0:46:40 | |
'The gassing...' This is my destiny! | 0:46:40 | 0:46:42 | |
'Imprisonment and torture of my people...' | 0:46:42 | 0:46:45 | |
This is my destiny. 'We will not stop this fight.' | 0:46:45 | 0:46:47 | |
We are at war and I am a soldier. 'We are at war.' | 0:46:47 | 0:46:52 | |
We are at war and I am a soldier! 'I am a soldier.' | 0:46:52 | 0:46:57 | |
Now you too will face the reality of this situation. | 0:46:57 | 0:47:01 | |
Allah Akbar. Allah Akbar! | 0:47:01 | 0:47:04 | |
'Until we feel security...' Allah Akbar! Allah Akbar! | 0:47:04 | 0:47:09 | |
'You will be our targets.' | 0:47:09 | 0:47:12 | |
Lucretius said back in the first century before Christ | 0:47:25 | 0:47:30 | |
that religion is the cause of all the evils... | 0:47:30 | 0:47:33 | |
..and obviously I wouldn't want to agree with that, | 0:47:36 | 0:47:40 | |
but I do think there's a particular hazard about religion | 0:47:40 | 0:47:43 | |
that it does confer great authority on certain individuals... | 0:47:43 | 0:47:47 | |
..and that authority... can easily be abused | 0:47:49 | 0:47:54 | |
because it can become a system | 0:47:54 | 0:47:56 | |
for getting people to do what I want or what my group wants. | 0:47:56 | 0:48:00 | |
Even till the point they press the button, or carry out the attack, | 0:48:03 | 0:48:09 | |
we know for a fact, that we can still stop them. | 0:48:09 | 0:48:13 | |
You can still talk to the individual and say, "Look, you know what, | 0:48:13 | 0:48:16 | |
"before you press that button, listen to what I have to say." | 0:48:16 | 0:48:20 | |
And you can still persuade them, we know that for a fact - there's doubt. | 0:48:20 | 0:48:24 | |
PHONE RINGS | 0:48:24 | 0:48:27 | |
'The person you are calling is unable to take your call. | 0:48:27 | 0:48:30 | |
'Please leave a message after the tone.' | 0:48:30 | 0:48:32 | |
It's me. Please pick up... | 0:48:32 | 0:48:34 | |
I really need to talk to you. | 0:48:36 | 0:48:39 | |
Please pick up the phone. | 0:48:39 | 0:48:41 | |
Fuck. | 0:48:48 | 0:48:50 | |
POLICE RADIO CHATTER | 0:48:55 | 0:48:57 | |
I went to that address with a colleague of mine. | 0:49:08 | 0:49:11 | |
The flat was in semi-darkness. | 0:49:11 | 0:49:13 | |
There was a lot of cutlery, cups and that piled up on the sink. | 0:49:13 | 0:49:16 | |
I looked at it, I don't know why, I just thought that was... | 0:49:16 | 0:49:20 | |
imagine me living on my own - piling things up on the sink side. | 0:49:20 | 0:49:23 | |
We found a number of bottles of hydrogen peroxide, | 0:49:26 | 0:49:30 | |
there were some circuitry and some wire, | 0:49:30 | 0:49:33 | |
tubs of nails and screws. | 0:49:33 | 0:49:34 | |
We found 68 printed pages detailing precise biographies of the 7/7 and 9/11 bombers. | 0:49:34 | 0:49:41 | |
We found the receipts for the purchases of all the items... | 0:49:41 | 0:49:46 | |
..all the needles and threads and scissors to make the suicide vest. | 0:49:47 | 0:49:52 | |
In total we think there would probably have been enough explosives | 0:49:52 | 0:49:57 | |
to make the equivalent of what would be 11 hand grenades. | 0:49:57 | 0:50:00 | |
11 hand grenades - being detonated in an area where | 0:50:00 | 0:50:03 | |
the public are just, you know moving around in a normal fashion. | 0:50:03 | 0:50:07 | |
That's going to kill a lot of people, maim a lot of people. | 0:50:07 | 0:50:10 | |
MUSIC AND DISCORDANT SPEECH | 0:50:10 | 0:50:14 | |
SHOOTING AND SHOUTING | 0:50:29 | 0:50:33 | |
NOISE REVERBERATES | 0:50:33 | 0:50:35 | |
I honestly believe these guys, most of these guys, young, young kids really... | 0:50:55 | 0:51:01 | |
are living a fantasy world. | 0:51:01 | 0:51:03 | |
They really are living a fantasy world, and they think | 0:51:03 | 0:51:06 | |
they are genuine soldiers, | 0:51:06 | 0:51:08 | |
and that training on Modern Warfare 2 is training enough as a soldier. | 0:51:08 | 0:51:14 | |
You understand the tactics, you understand what it's like to hold a Kalashnikov | 0:51:14 | 0:51:18 | |
because you've been playing it on PlayStation or Xbox. | 0:51:18 | 0:51:21 | |
The game suddenly has become... "I'm involved." | 0:51:21 | 0:51:25 | |
All they're doing is acting out a fantasy war game. | 0:51:28 | 0:51:32 | |
And the fantasy only becomes reality when there's either a knock on the door, | 0:51:34 | 0:51:38 | |
and the police, and it's over. | 0:51:38 | 0:51:40 | |
"Oh my God, I'm actually in the real world now." | 0:51:40 | 0:51:44 | |
Or, we don't get there in time, | 0:51:44 | 0:51:47 | |
and then that fantasy plays itself out to the end. | 0:51:47 | 0:51:50 | |
< Armed police! Stand still! | 0:52:12 | 0:52:15 | |
Look at me! Put your arms out to the side. | 0:52:15 | 0:52:17 | |
But I haven't done nothing. | 0:52:17 | 0:52:19 | |
-Look at me, do as I say! -But I haven't done nothing! | 0:52:19 | 0:52:21 | |
Put your arms out to the side. SIRENS BLARE | 0:52:21 | 0:52:24 | |
Look at me! | 0:52:24 | 0:52:25 | |
TYRES SCREECH | 0:52:25 | 0:52:27 | |
-If you do as I say, no harm will come to you. -I haven't done nothing. | 0:52:27 | 0:52:31 | |
Drop onto your knees. Do it now! | 0:52:31 | 0:52:34 | |
Do it now! | 0:52:34 | 0:52:35 | |
'With this I leave you to make up your own minds | 0:52:38 | 0:52:41 | |
'and I ask you to make dua to Allah almighty to accept my work | 0:52:41 | 0:52:47 | |
'and enter me into gardens of paradise...' | 0:52:47 | 0:52:50 | |
-Arms out! -I haven't done nothing. | 0:52:50 | 0:52:53 | |
'A paradise where there will be no suffering...' | 0:52:53 | 0:52:56 | |
-What's in the bag? -Fuck off is what's in the bag! | 0:52:56 | 0:52:58 | |
-Tell me what's in the bag. -I've got nothing in the bag! -Stay where you are! | 0:52:58 | 0:53:02 | |
'No pain...' | 0:53:02 | 0:53:03 | |
'..loneliness...or anger.' | 0:53:04 | 0:53:08 | |
Stay down! | 0:53:11 | 0:53:13 | |
'Just acceptance... | 0:53:15 | 0:53:18 | |
'..And everlasting love.' | 0:53:19 | 0:53:22 | |
'Bang.' | 0:53:22 | 0:53:25 | |
Everything, just like the whole, writing equations in my book, | 0:53:25 | 0:53:29 | |
his whole anti-Western views, joking about bombs, | 0:53:29 | 0:53:34 | |
like, converting to Muslim so dramatically, | 0:53:34 | 0:53:37 | |
just seemed to piece together and like switched a light on, | 0:53:37 | 0:53:40 | |
and just made us realise, "OK, why didn't we realise this before?" | 0:53:40 | 0:53:44 | |
He could have caused so much harm, it's just really, | 0:53:44 | 0:53:48 | |
really frightening, that somebody I knew could've done that. | 0:53:48 | 0:53:51 | |
It's sad really, he's a young man who looked like he was going to become a suicide bomber. | 0:53:53 | 0:53:58 | |
I suspect there was opportunities. I think there are people who perhaps could've done more in the past. | 0:53:58 | 0:54:03 | |
Only they know. | 0:54:03 | 0:54:06 | |
Well, in hindsight, if I was back at school, I would've took him to one side to talk to him. | 0:54:08 | 0:54:14 | |
Cos I, I know what depression's like. | 0:54:14 | 0:54:18 | |
It's not nice, and to think that someone else went through it | 0:54:18 | 0:54:22 | |
and you were probably one of the ones that was telling him to fuck off, | 0:54:22 | 0:54:27 | |
makes me feel quite guilty. But, you can't turn back time. | 0:54:27 | 0:54:32 | |
It's a shame really. | 0:54:32 | 0:54:33 | |
I know many people think, | 0:54:44 | 0:54:46 | |
"Why didn't you give up on him? He had loads of chances." | 0:54:46 | 0:54:50 | |
I can't give up on him. | 0:54:52 | 0:54:55 | |
He's my son. | 0:54:55 | 0:54:56 | |
I don't want to lose my son. | 0:54:56 | 0:54:59 | |
Andrew doesn't really talk to us about what happened. | 0:55:05 | 0:55:10 | |
I think he feels deep shame about it. | 0:55:10 | 0:55:13 | |
He's changed enormously. He's lost a lot of weight. | 0:55:18 | 0:55:22 | |
He rings me most days, but on the 9th of December, | 0:55:22 | 0:55:26 | |
in 2009, he sent me this card. | 0:55:26 | 0:55:30 | |
And he's just written inside just a very small amount of text... | 0:55:30 | 0:55:35 | |
..but it perhaps shows... | 0:55:37 | 0:55:40 | |
an idea of how he's changed and he's put, | 0:55:40 | 0:55:43 | |
"To Mum, I would like to say sorry for the things I did wrong... | 0:55:43 | 0:55:49 | |
"as a teenager..." | 0:55:49 | 0:55:51 | |
"After listening to a tape on obeying parents, | 0:55:53 | 0:55:57 | |
"I became concerned... | 0:55:57 | 0:56:00 | |
"and bought this card to ask for forgiveness, from you and Dad. | 0:56:00 | 0:56:05 | |
"I hope you for...can forgive my shortcomings, in speech, and actions. Lots of love, Isa.' | 0:56:05 | 0:56:14 | |
Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd | 0:56:50 | 0:56:53 | |
E-mail [email protected] | 0:56:53 | 0:56:57 |