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War has been a staple of British television since...well, since the war. | 0:00:00 | 0:00:06 | |
It's always made news, of course, but it's also given us some of our most iconic dramas. | 0:00:06 | 0:00:12 | |
So this is Colditz. | 0:00:12 | 0:00:13 | |
It's inspired some of our funniest sitcoms, | 0:00:13 | 0:00:17 | |
and it's been a battleground for the big beasts of television drama. | 0:00:17 | 0:00:21 | |
There is no excuse for the murder and mayhem and slaughter | 0:00:21 | 0:00:26 | |
of young people in the First World War. | 0:00:26 | 0:00:28 | |
But some wars have to be fought, | 0:00:28 | 0:00:30 | |
and my play said, "This is one and this is why." | 0:00:30 | 0:00:33 | |
Tonight we look at how British telly has gone to war. | 0:00:33 | 0:00:37 | |
What explains our fascination with the Third Reich? | 0:00:37 | 0:00:41 | |
We were the good guys, | 0:00:41 | 0:00:42 | |
and the other side were the bad guys, and that makes us all feel much, much better. | 0:00:42 | 0:00:46 | |
What's it like to see your soldiering remade for television? | 0:00:46 | 0:00:50 | |
They did capture the spirit and the immediacy of the time. | 0:00:50 | 0:00:54 | |
And what's the dividing line between television drama and historical fact? | 0:00:54 | 0:01:00 | |
I think the central problem is that the needs of the TV industry | 0:01:00 | 0:01:04 | |
are fundamentally incompatible with good history. | 0:01:04 | 0:01:07 | |
From the trenches of the Somme to the battle for Basra, this is what happens when TV goes to war. | 0:01:07 | 0:01:14 | |
It looks like it could be the beginning of the much promised shock and awe campaign. | 0:01:17 | 0:01:23 | |
'War and television have always had an often explosive relationship.' | 0:01:23 | 0:01:27 | |
I counted them all out... | 0:01:27 | 0:01:29 | |
'On the one hand, war offers many of the things the television writer needs.' | 0:01:29 | 0:01:34 | |
There's obviously great drama there, | 0:01:34 | 0:01:36 | |
great stories to be told, great stories of heroism and bravery, | 0:01:36 | 0:01:39 | |
great stories of cruelty, great stories of anguish and pain. | 0:01:39 | 0:01:43 | |
It's got suspense, it's got conflict, it's got action, | 0:01:43 | 0:01:47 | |
but I think more than that, it's part of the narrative we tell ourselves. | 0:01:47 | 0:01:51 | |
After all, Britain, in a sense, sees itself as a warrior nation. | 0:01:51 | 0:01:55 | |
But if war has what television drama needs, television drama still wants more. | 0:01:55 | 0:01:59 | |
For example, you have to have the arc of character. | 0:01:59 | 0:02:03 | |
There has to be a sort of moral metamorphosis, | 0:02:03 | 0:02:06 | |
the coward is redeemed and the cynic is reduced to tears. | 0:02:06 | 0:02:10 | |
I mean, all of these things happening | 0:02:10 | 0:02:12 | |
under the pressure of the moment. | 0:02:12 | 0:02:14 | |
Now, those are certain formulae which are almost unbreakable | 0:02:14 | 0:02:19 | |
in the dramatic reproduction. They've got nothing to do with history at all. | 0:02:19 | 0:02:24 | |
The ambivalent relationship was evident from the start. | 0:02:25 | 0:02:30 | |
The birth of television was directly linked to the war effort. | 0:02:30 | 0:02:34 | |
Public broadcast television in this country, the first in the world, started in 1936, | 0:02:34 | 0:02:38 | |
just three years short of the war. | 0:02:38 | 0:02:40 | |
But the race to invent television and get the technology out and about | 0:02:40 | 0:02:44 | |
and the service started was sort of accelerated | 0:02:44 | 0:02:47 | |
because the development of television also aided the development of radar. | 0:02:47 | 0:02:51 | |
People knew the war was coming, and they knew how important radar would be during the war, | 0:02:51 | 0:02:55 | |
so that's one of the reasons why so much money and effort was put into rushing television into operation. | 0:02:55 | 0:03:00 | |
But when war broke out, television was among the first casualties, taken off air in case its signals | 0:03:00 | 0:03:07 | |
led German bombers to the heart of London. | 0:03:07 | 0:03:10 | |
In times of war, it seemed TV couldn't entirely be trusted. | 0:03:10 | 0:03:14 | |
The plug was pulled just before | 0:03:14 | 0:03:16 | |
the outbreak of war in 1939, and it didn't come back on air until June 1946, | 0:03:16 | 0:03:21 | |
so people would have followed the progress of the war in as much as they were able to, | 0:03:21 | 0:03:25 | |
because there was heavy censorship, they would have followed it | 0:03:25 | 0:03:29 | |
on newsreels usually, cinema newsreels, or of course on the radio. | 0:03:29 | 0:03:33 | |
Television had a problem. | 0:03:33 | 0:03:34 | |
World War II had been nothing if not cinematic. | 0:03:34 | 0:03:38 | |
The big stories belonged on the big screen. | 0:03:38 | 0:03:42 | |
Some very good films | 0:03:42 | 0:03:43 | |
were made in the 1950s about the Second World War, | 0:03:43 | 0:03:47 | |
partly because all the people who starred in the films, | 0:03:47 | 0:03:50 | |
the likes of Richard Todd and Jack Hawkins, they had all been in the war, and it showed. | 0:03:50 | 0:03:55 | |
When you made a movie like The Cruel Sea, the ships were real, the people were real and so on. | 0:03:55 | 0:04:01 | |
So although those '50s films were absurdly nationalistic, | 0:04:01 | 0:04:04 | |
The Dambusters, Reach For The Sky and the rest of it, | 0:04:04 | 0:04:07 | |
they did bring something real to the party. | 0:04:07 | 0:04:09 | |
So how could television capture the reality of war | 0:04:09 | 0:04:13 | |
on a small budget and a small screen? | 0:04:13 | 0:04:16 | |
It's very difficult for TV to depict war | 0:04:16 | 0:04:20 | |
in all its horror in any really realistic way | 0:04:20 | 0:04:23 | |
unless you're Steven Spielberg with Band Of Brothers. | 0:04:23 | 0:04:27 | |
To do it with a smaller budget is very, very hard. | 0:04:27 | 0:04:30 | |
If you're going to show war on TV, | 0:04:30 | 0:04:32 | |
you have to do it in a different way. | 0:04:32 | 0:04:34 | |
You have to... | 0:04:34 | 0:04:36 | |
You have to be more intimate. | 0:04:36 | 0:04:38 | |
Rudolph Cartier is the great Austrian director who worked for the BBC | 0:04:42 | 0:04:46 | |
in the '50s and '60s, an incredible talent, and one of his most famous works is Stalingrad in 1963, | 0:04:46 | 0:04:53 | |
which looks at the terrible siege. | 0:04:53 | 0:04:55 | |
It takes the epic story and concentrates on just a handful of characters to see | 0:04:55 | 0:05:01 | |
the terrible events through their eyes. | 0:05:01 | 0:05:03 | |
Sorry, mate, but this is Stalingrad. | 0:05:03 | 0:05:07 | |
'You're not relying on an epic scale, the like of which we see in the cinema.' | 0:05:07 | 0:05:13 | |
You're relying on just great acting, | 0:05:13 | 0:05:15 | |
very clever directing and good writing, which are, of course, the holy trinity of television. | 0:05:15 | 0:05:22 | |
A thousand fires are burning outside. | 0:05:22 | 0:05:25 | |
They stink of smouldering bones and burning flesh. | 0:05:25 | 0:05:28 | |
Every square yard of this land is covered with the corpses of our soldiers... | 0:05:28 | 0:05:32 | |
'It's a harrowing play, it's very, very well done, even though it's shot on a shoestring.' | 0:05:32 | 0:05:37 | |
So when you see an invading tank, you don't actually see the tank. | 0:05:37 | 0:05:40 | |
What you see is the tank driver's point of view | 0:05:40 | 0:05:43 | |
from the slit as he drives into the war zones. | 0:05:43 | 0:05:46 | |
He uses tricks to get over the scope. | 0:05:46 | 0:05:49 | |
Now, I think, that wouldn't work. | 0:05:49 | 0:05:52 | |
We demand to see on screen the whole tapestry. | 0:05:52 | 0:05:55 | |
Television would struggle with the spectacle of war till Spielberg, | 0:05:55 | 0:05:59 | |
but the other response to army life was simply to laugh. | 0:05:59 | 0:06:03 | |
Sitcom would emerge as one of the new medium's most popular genres. | 0:06:03 | 0:06:08 | |
Here, television could compete with cinema | 0:06:08 | 0:06:11 | |
in a way that was both affordable and allowable. | 0:06:11 | 0:06:15 | |
I think it's permissible to make jokes about the Second World War, | 0:06:15 | 0:06:19 | |
the kind of jokes you see John Cleese doing in Fawlty Towers, | 0:06:19 | 0:06:22 | |
marching around that hotel, or the kind of humour | 0:06:22 | 0:06:25 | |
'that Spike Milligan mimed through his career.' | 0:06:25 | 0:06:28 | |
Fall out! No, no... | 0:06:28 | 0:06:31 | |
'Because the Second World War' | 0:06:31 | 0:06:33 | |
produced a lot of humour of its own. | 0:06:33 | 0:06:35 | |
Even Churchill talked about Hitler as Herr Schicklgruber, didn't he? | 0:06:35 | 0:06:39 | |
You know, that song about Hitler only having one ball, that didn't start in the 1970s playgrounds. | 0:06:39 | 0:06:44 | |
On your feet, at the double! | 0:06:44 | 0:06:46 | |
You're in the army now! | 0:06:46 | 0:06:48 | |
Having defeated an enemy famous for having absolutely no sense of humour, | 0:06:48 | 0:06:53 | |
what better and more economical way for television to enjoy our victory? | 0:06:53 | 0:06:57 | |
The Army Game is about national service, | 0:06:57 | 0:06:59 | |
and it's about a group of recruits who, in a slightly kind of | 0:06:59 | 0:07:03 | |
Bilko-ish way, are all brought together, | 0:07:03 | 0:07:06 | |
'and they're all different character types. | 0:07:06 | 0:07:09 | |
'None of them, I think, would actually be suitable for combat.' | 0:07:09 | 0:07:15 | |
Now, I want this place spick, span and spotless, understand? | 0:07:15 | 0:07:19 | |
'The Army Game established the ground rules for the war-based sitcom. | 0:07:19 | 0:07:23 | |
'It should keep its distance from any actual fighting | 0:07:23 | 0:07:26 | |
'and, being British, it should be more about class than war.' | 0:07:26 | 0:07:30 | |
The army does lend itself to comedy, | 0:07:30 | 0:07:33 | |
because it's got a natural structure and hierarchy, | 0:07:33 | 0:07:36 | |
and where you have a hierarchy, | 0:07:36 | 0:07:38 | |
you have a class system and conflict, and where you have conflict within that, you have comedy, I think. | 0:07:38 | 0:07:42 | |
I say there, you men! | 0:07:42 | 0:07:45 | |
Hello, it's a boy scout! | 0:07:45 | 0:07:47 | |
'People are meeting people that they haven't met before, | 0:07:47 | 0:07:50 | |
'and that's when you start to get the stereotype characteristics,' | 0:07:50 | 0:07:53 | |
so you had the grunts, the soldiers, | 0:07:53 | 0:07:56 | |
against the sergeant major and the upper orders. | 0:07:56 | 0:08:00 | |
So there was a definite divide, and that was the same in Private's Progress in the cinema | 0:08:00 | 0:08:04 | |
and the first of the Carry On films. | 0:08:04 | 0:08:06 | |
It's because William Hartnell is in this film | 0:08:06 | 0:08:09 | |
that he gets cast as the leading man of Carry On Sergeant, the first of the Carry On films, | 0:08:09 | 0:08:14 | |
so actually the whole of the Carry On humour really is rooted in the barrack room. | 0:08:14 | 0:08:20 | |
Is that so? | 0:08:20 | 0:08:21 | |
'Television was at ease with the nuances of army life, but by now, | 0:08:21 | 0:08:26 | |
'Britain had a new enemy, and television writers a new challenge.' | 0:08:26 | 0:08:30 | |
Here was a war whose outcome was far from certain, | 0:08:33 | 0:08:36 | |
which hadn't actually been declared, but which seemed no laughing matter. | 0:08:36 | 0:08:42 | |
Western intelligence started to focus on the Soviet Union as a threat | 0:08:42 | 0:08:46 | |
primarily after the Second World War, really. | 0:08:46 | 0:08:49 | |
They were certainly our main targets | 0:08:49 | 0:08:52 | |
during the '60s, the '70s and on into the '80s. | 0:08:52 | 0:08:55 | |
There were moments of sort of bomb hysteria, which were extremely strong. | 0:08:55 | 0:09:00 | |
Obviously, at the time of the Cuban missile crisis, we didn't know | 0:09:00 | 0:09:03 | |
whether the world was going to cease to exist in a few days' time. | 0:09:03 | 0:09:06 | |
'Having struggled to portray a war it had missed, | 0:09:06 | 0:09:09 | |
'how could television depict a war that hadn't yet happened? | 0:09:09 | 0:09:13 | |
'The answer was all too convincingly.' | 0:09:13 | 0:09:16 | |
9:16am, a single megaton nuclear missile overshoots Manston Airfield in Kent | 0:09:16 | 0:09:22 | |
and airbursts six miles from this position. | 0:09:22 | 0:09:26 | |
-Duck! -Aaaah! | 0:09:28 | 0:09:31 | |
Peter Watkins' The War Game was about a nuclear war, you know, in Britain, the effect of nuclear war, | 0:09:31 | 0:09:38 | |
and of course it was an absolutely terrifying film, even if you see it today. | 0:09:38 | 0:09:42 | |
SCREAMING | 0:09:42 | 0:09:45 | |
12 seconds later, the shock front arrives. | 0:09:48 | 0:09:52 | |
'With its voiceover, vox pops and shaky camera, | 0:09:52 | 0:09:55 | |
'The War Game blurred the line between documentary and drama. | 0:09:55 | 0:09:59 | |
'It created a powerful new weapon for television to go to war.' | 0:09:59 | 0:10:03 | |
And it must have resonated perhaps even more in the '60s, because people watching it in the '60s, | 0:10:03 | 0:10:08 | |
many of them would remember the Blitz, they would have remembered the V1s and V2s, | 0:10:08 | 0:10:13 | |
so what you had was this sort of terror compounded to the nth degree. | 0:10:13 | 0:10:18 | |
People, if they had felt powerless in the Blitz, | 0:10:18 | 0:10:20 | |
they would have felt completely powerless, of course, in The War Game. | 0:10:20 | 0:10:23 | |
'Its very success presented BBC with a problem. | 0:10:23 | 0:10:27 | |
'Having made a masterpiece, could it actually be shown?' | 0:10:27 | 0:10:31 | |
I did not think the BBC could take the responsibility | 0:10:31 | 0:10:36 | |
for the possible effect on, for instance, | 0:10:36 | 0:10:39 | |
the old, the lonely, the mentally disturbed | 0:10:39 | 0:10:43 | |
watching the film in the privacy of their homes. | 0:10:43 | 0:10:47 | |
'Scheduled for 20th anniversary of Hiroshima, The War Game wouldn't be broadcast for another 20 years. | 0:10:47 | 0:10:55 | |
'Drama, documentary or both, it summed up the difficulties of putting war on the telly, | 0:10:55 | 0:11:00 | |
'because it wasn't just the graphic images, it was the political subtext.' | 0:11:00 | 0:11:05 | |
This...is nuclear war. | 0:11:05 | 0:11:08 | |
'It was to do with banning the bomb,' | 0:11:08 | 0:11:09 | |
it was to do with unilateral disarmament, but it was also | 0:11:09 | 0:11:13 | |
a hidden indictment of the government, about what were they doing to protect | 0:11:13 | 0:11:17 | |
the people of Britain in the case of a nuclear war? | 0:11:17 | 0:11:20 | |
And the answer is, there's not a lot probably that could be done, and that was a very, very stark message. | 0:11:20 | 0:11:26 | |
You know, really it was the endgame. | 0:11:26 | 0:11:29 | |
If the realities of nuclear war were unbroadcastable, television retreated into a world of fantasy. | 0:11:29 | 0:11:36 | |
For the rest of the decade, we got a kind of Cold War light | 0:11:36 | 0:11:40 | |
as TV threw itself into the '60s spy boom. | 0:11:40 | 0:11:44 | |
Well, obviously, spying was the Great Game, | 0:11:44 | 0:11:48 | |
and again something of huge fascination | 0:11:48 | 0:11:50 | |
because of its dramatic potential to television makers. | 0:11:50 | 0:11:54 | |
Here was an exciting world of gadgets and glamour. | 0:11:54 | 0:11:56 | |
No need for expensive battle scenes or even factual accuracy. | 0:11:56 | 0:12:01 | |
No-one knew what the facts were in this silent war. | 0:12:01 | 0:12:05 | |
Until quite recently, there was almost no hard facts available, | 0:12:05 | 0:12:09 | |
particularly about British intelligence. | 0:12:09 | 0:12:12 | |
It wasn't really until, I suppose, the kind of late '80s that we started talking about things. | 0:12:12 | 0:12:16 | |
So the world of spying has been open for the imagination of writers | 0:12:16 | 0:12:22 | |
and television makers to fill up with what they liked. | 0:12:22 | 0:12:25 | |
Yeah, there was The Champions, there was any number of shows at that time. | 0:12:29 | 0:12:32 | |
Even Thunderbirds tapped into that Cold War thing. | 0:12:32 | 0:12:37 | |
Yeah, Man From UNCLE, all those shows. | 0:12:37 | 0:12:39 | |
SPECTRE, SMERSH, all those shadowy organisations, that was all about the Cold War. | 0:12:39 | 0:12:44 | |
I used to love The Champions. | 0:12:44 | 0:12:45 | |
Alexandra Bastedo in front of that fountain. | 0:12:45 | 0:12:48 | |
They were agents working for this organisation called Nemesis, | 0:12:48 | 0:12:52 | |
based in Geneva in Switzerland. | 0:12:52 | 0:12:54 | |
'Our enemies varied. They were sometimes the Chinese, they were the Russians. | 0:12:54 | 0:12:59 | |
'They could be anybody at that time.' | 0:12:59 | 0:13:01 | |
Commence phase one now. | 0:13:01 | 0:13:03 | |
Of course, because of political correctness, | 0:13:05 | 0:13:07 | |
you can't make anybody a villain these days, because we're friendly with everybody, | 0:13:07 | 0:13:12 | |
or at least maybe we are, maybe it's superficial, I don't know. | 0:13:12 | 0:13:15 | |
All of those ITC series | 0:13:15 | 0:13:18 | |
that start in the late '60s are intimately connected with the Cold War. | 0:13:18 | 0:13:22 | |
In a way, they're television's answer to James Bond. | 0:13:22 | 0:13:25 | |
In a few minutes, the world's two greatest powers are going to wipe themselves out. | 0:13:27 | 0:13:33 | |
I laugh when I think of people doing lectures on these series, or seminars, because for us | 0:13:33 | 0:13:39 | |
it was just work, and they were fun and, "He went that way," | 0:13:39 | 0:13:44 | |
'and waving guns around.' | 0:13:44 | 0:13:46 | |
'I think they got everything wrong' | 0:13:46 | 0:13:48 | |
if what you looking for is any kind of | 0:13:48 | 0:13:51 | |
relation to reality, but what they were trying to do is entertain. | 0:13:51 | 0:13:55 | |
The missiles have been launched! | 0:13:55 | 0:13:57 | |
We've got to find the destruct switch! | 0:13:57 | 0:13:59 | |
Well, at the time, one thought of all those series, Department S, | 0:13:59 | 0:14:03 | |
The Avengers, as being lightweight, but in fact, erm...I mean, in real life, | 0:14:03 | 0:14:10 | |
there was the possibility of problems with the Chinese and certainly the Russians. | 0:14:10 | 0:14:14 | |
It's OK, Sharon, I've found it! | 0:14:14 | 0:14:17 | |
My mother always said, you'll be very lucky if, in your lifetime, there isn't a Third World War. | 0:14:19 | 0:14:24 | |
Richard... It's all right! | 0:14:24 | 0:14:28 | |
The Cold War had its attractions, but along with the agents of international communism, | 0:14:31 | 0:14:35 | |
one old enemy simply refused to go away. | 0:14:35 | 0:14:39 | |
The further from the war we got, the more powerful he seemed to become, | 0:14:39 | 0:14:43 | |
at least in television's imagination. | 0:14:43 | 0:14:45 | |
Kommen Sie hier, Fraulein! | 0:14:45 | 0:14:48 | |
The fascination, more with the Second World War than any other war, | 0:14:50 | 0:14:53 | |
is because it represented a moment of decisive moral choice, | 0:14:53 | 0:14:59 | |
and moral choice is the basic element in all human drama. | 0:14:59 | 0:15:02 | |
Most of the time with most wars, we're not sure | 0:15:02 | 0:15:05 | |
whether they were a good thing or not. | 0:15:05 | 0:15:07 | |
What is almost unique about the Second World War is we're | 0:15:07 | 0:15:10 | |
pretty sure it was the good war. | 0:15:10 | 0:15:12 | |
We were the good guys and the other side were the bad guys. | 0:15:12 | 0:15:15 | |
And that makes us feel much better than it does about Afghanistan | 0:15:15 | 0:15:20 | |
or Iraq or Korea or whatever you'd like to name. | 0:15:20 | 0:15:23 | |
British troops were in action in the '70s | 0:15:23 | 0:15:26 | |
but often against British citizens. And with the country in apparent decline, | 0:15:26 | 0:15:31 | |
it left us yearning for a time when things seemed more black and white. | 0:15:31 | 0:15:35 | |
As the war films of the '50s found a new home | 0:15:35 | 0:15:38 | |
on the television of the '70s, | 0:15:38 | 0:15:40 | |
television found a new way of delivering | 0:15:40 | 0:15:43 | |
what its audience needed - escapism. | 0:15:43 | 0:15:46 | |
Prison is fantastic for drama, | 0:15:53 | 0:15:55 | |
because it throws together guys in a strange and unreal situation, | 0:15:55 | 0:15:59 | |
but they have to rub along together and if it's a prison situation | 0:15:59 | 0:16:03 | |
they're maybe thinking of getting out, | 0:16:03 | 0:16:06 | |
so that's immediately fascinating. | 0:16:06 | 0:16:08 | |
Assuming that we can get through that window... | 0:16:08 | 0:16:11 | |
The appeal of Colditz I think was the outwitting | 0:16:11 | 0:16:14 | |
of the German prison guards. | 0:16:14 | 0:16:16 | |
The plucky British, the very brave British, | 0:16:16 | 0:16:18 | |
but also the ingenious British, and somehow the artisanal British. | 0:16:18 | 0:16:23 | |
There you are with a coal shovel, you're digging yourself | 0:16:23 | 0:16:26 | |
out of the Stalag. In other words, Britain's grit and determination | 0:16:26 | 0:16:30 | |
and just practical common sense. You know, you do it with a tea-spoon. | 0:16:30 | 0:16:34 | |
So there was all that, but put it all together | 0:16:34 | 0:16:37 | |
with German officers who always look so horrendously scary on TV, | 0:16:37 | 0:16:41 | |
then you've got something special. | 0:16:41 | 0:16:44 | |
Of course, the break-out star of Colditz wasn't a Brit, | 0:16:44 | 0:16:47 | |
it was Major Horst Mohn - 1970s television's nastiest Nazi. | 0:16:47 | 0:16:53 | |
So this is Colditz. | 0:16:53 | 0:16:55 | |
They felt at the time that Colditz in the first series, | 0:16:55 | 0:17:00 | |
in a sense, was too reasonable. | 0:17:00 | 0:17:03 | |
Everybody was reasonable, | 0:17:03 | 0:17:04 | |
everybody understood everybody else's position, | 0:17:04 | 0:17:07 | |
everybody behaved as well as they could under the circumstances. | 0:17:07 | 0:17:11 | |
It needed something, someone antagonistic. | 0:17:11 | 0:17:16 | |
The attitude of Mohn was "Give me trouble and I will redefine | 0:17:20 | 0:17:24 | |
"the word 'trouble' for you in a way you cannot begin to imagine," | 0:17:24 | 0:17:28 | |
May I see? | 0:17:28 | 0:17:29 | |
If you're dressed in that uniform | 0:17:31 | 0:17:33 | |
and striding about in jackboots, yes, there's an instant cliche | 0:17:33 | 0:17:37 | |
that's available to you, this man is going to say, | 0:17:37 | 0:17:40 | |
"Ve have vays of making you talk" and, "For you ze var is over," | 0:17:40 | 0:17:46 | |
so to try and produce something that's different, | 0:17:46 | 0:17:50 | |
it's not the easiest trick in the world, but with Mohn, it worked. | 0:17:50 | 0:17:53 | |
Bad luck, Mr Carter. | 0:17:53 | 0:17:55 | |
The producer said, "We're going to arrange a viewing | 0:17:57 | 0:18:00 | |
"of some film at the Imperial War Museum," | 0:18:00 | 0:18:04 | |
and I chose to have a look at the training of the youth movement, | 0:18:04 | 0:18:08 | |
the complete cliche - golden haired, fit, strong, athletic, and social. | 0:18:08 | 0:18:14 | |
Suddenly you understood, because you could see they acquired | 0:18:14 | 0:18:20 | |
a notion of invincibility somewhere along the way. | 0:18:20 | 0:18:24 | |
-Sit down. -Thank you, sir. | 0:18:24 | 0:18:26 | |
There's one line I always remember, | 0:18:26 | 0:18:28 | |
when the Kommandant, played by Bernard Hepton, says to Mohn, | 0:18:28 | 0:18:33 | |
"You have actually met the Fuhrer?" | 0:18:33 | 0:18:36 | |
-And he says... -He's a great man, sir. | 0:18:36 | 0:18:39 | |
He's a wonderful man. | 0:18:40 | 0:18:42 | |
And it kind of makes the hair stand up on the back of your neck | 0:18:43 | 0:18:46 | |
because the whole concept of what, if you like, the collective | 0:18:46 | 0:18:51 | |
German psyche was about, is sort of embodied in that. | 0:18:51 | 0:18:56 | |
I hope you won't entertain any thoughts of escape from here, | 0:18:56 | 0:19:02 | |
following in your father's footsteps. | 0:19:02 | 0:19:05 | |
Because I can assure you, escape from Colditz is impossible! | 0:19:05 | 0:19:10 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:19:12 | 0:19:15 | |
Colditz created a new TV archetype that would be copied and parodied, | 0:19:15 | 0:19:19 | |
crucially, it was a world where Britain was once more | 0:19:19 | 0:19:22 | |
the underdog, and that struck a chord. | 0:19:22 | 0:19:25 | |
I think Britain was suffering from a tremendous inferiority complex | 0:19:25 | 0:19:29 | |
vis a vis Germany in industrial terms and technology terms and so forth. | 0:19:29 | 0:19:32 | |
The German economy was speeding ahead | 0:19:32 | 0:19:35 | |
and we were left badly in its wake. | 0:19:35 | 0:19:37 | |
And there the attitude really was very much one of trying to emphasise that we won the war | 0:19:37 | 0:19:42 | |
and how ghastly the Germans were. | 0:19:42 | 0:19:44 | |
Here is your prison number. And the address to which letters should be sent. | 0:19:44 | 0:19:49 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:19:49 | 0:19:51 | |
For '70s television, the war was never over. | 0:19:51 | 0:19:54 | |
We'd try not to mention it, but we just couldn't help ourselves! | 0:19:54 | 0:19:57 | |
It's the little people, isn't it, | 0:19:57 | 0:19:59 | |
when Hitler had the whole of Europe in his pocket, | 0:19:59 | 0:20:02 | |
there was only one country that stood against him, | 0:20:02 | 0:20:04 | |
and I think we are still proud of that. | 0:20:04 | 0:20:07 | |
# Who do you think you are kidding, Mr Hitler? # | 0:20:07 | 0:20:12 | |
But the definitive response wasn't dramatic, it was comedic. | 0:20:12 | 0:20:17 | |
Our finest hour became one of sitcom's funniest 30 minutes. | 0:20:17 | 0:20:21 | |
Dad's Army is one of those series that has | 0:20:21 | 0:20:23 | |
worked its way into the back of everyone's head. | 0:20:23 | 0:20:26 | |
It wouldn't surprise me if they put "Don't tell him, Pike," | 0:20:26 | 0:20:29 | |
into the British Citizenship test. | 0:20:29 | 0:20:31 | |
It's the warmth of the characters that's the crucial element. | 0:20:36 | 0:20:40 | |
You empathise and you like them. | 0:20:40 | 0:20:42 | |
Every character in that show is funny and different. | 0:20:42 | 0:20:46 | |
The moment I thought of writing Dad's Army was on the train | 0:20:46 | 0:20:51 | |
and I thought, "I know what I'll do, I'll write a pilot." | 0:20:51 | 0:20:56 | |
And I sat down when I got home and thought, "What do I know about?" | 0:20:56 | 0:21:03 | |
I thought, I was in the Home Guard, it was tucked away in my brain | 0:21:03 | 0:21:07 | |
and hadn't come out for years. | 0:21:07 | 0:21:10 | |
I went to the library, Kensington Library, | 0:21:10 | 0:21:13 | |
and I said to the girl there, the librarian, | 0:21:13 | 0:21:16 | |
"Have you got any books on the Home Guard?" | 0:21:16 | 0:21:20 | |
And she said, "What's that, then?" | 0:21:20 | 0:21:23 | |
The Home Guard had been totally forgotten! | 0:21:23 | 0:21:26 | |
# Run rabbit, run rabbit, run, run, run! # | 0:21:26 | 0:21:31 | |
So familiar is the show today, it's hard to think of it as edgy. | 0:21:31 | 0:21:37 | |
Yet the very idea provoked a flurry of memos. | 0:21:37 | 0:21:40 | |
There was some anxiety about whether or not sending up | 0:21:40 | 0:21:43 | |
the Home Guard was something the BBC should be doing. | 0:21:43 | 0:21:47 | |
There was a faint nervousness. | 0:21:47 | 0:21:51 | |
I mean, having worked at the BBC for 40 years, | 0:21:51 | 0:21:55 | |
there's always a faint nervousness about everything. | 0:21:55 | 0:21:58 | |
And because of these anxieties a prologue was appended to | 0:21:58 | 0:22:03 | |
the beginning of the first episode, and all the characters | 0:22:03 | 0:22:07 | |
are sitting there, but they're made up to look old. | 0:22:07 | 0:22:10 | |
This is set in the late '60s, this is set in the middle of Harold Wilson's | 0:22:10 | 0:22:14 | |
"I'm Backing Britain" campaign, | 0:22:14 | 0:22:16 | |
and Captain Mainwaring is giving this speech | 0:22:16 | 0:22:20 | |
about how maybe some people didn't | 0:22:20 | 0:22:23 | |
take the Home Guard very seriously, but he has always backed Britain. | 0:22:23 | 0:22:27 | |
I got into the habit of it in 1940, but then we all backed Britain. | 0:22:27 | 0:22:34 | |
And what's odd about it is that that means the whole of Dad's Army is a flashback! | 0:22:34 | 0:22:39 | |
I want maximum security, you understand? Maximum security. | 0:22:39 | 0:22:43 | |
Having established its patriotism, Dad's Army was free to celebrate | 0:22:43 | 0:22:47 | |
our amateurism in the face of apparently overwhelming odds. | 0:22:47 | 0:22:52 | |
Things were so desperate. There were adverts everywhere, | 0:22:52 | 0:22:55 | |
"Join the Home Guard". And we all realised, the Germans were just over the water. | 0:22:55 | 0:22:59 | |
Unlike the real Home Guard, Dad's Army did engage with the enemy, | 0:22:59 | 0:23:04 | |
the results were memorable. | 0:23:04 | 0:23:07 | |
In that fantastic episode where they're captured by the U-Boat crew, | 0:23:07 | 0:23:10 | |
Philip Madoc who played the U-boat commander, he was actually quite sinister. | 0:23:10 | 0:23:14 | |
It's a great episode, and it's remembered by everyone | 0:23:14 | 0:23:18 | |
because of the fantastic exchange. | 0:23:18 | 0:23:20 | |
Your name will also go on the list. | 0:23:20 | 0:23:22 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:23:22 | 0:23:24 | |
-Vot is it? -Don't tell him, Pike. -Pike! | 0:23:24 | 0:23:27 | |
Fantastic episode. But the point is that U-Boat crew was quite sinister. | 0:23:29 | 0:23:34 | |
you looked at him and thought, | 0:23:34 | 0:23:36 | |
"I wouldn't like to run up against him in a war situation." | 0:23:36 | 0:23:39 | |
If the German army had landed in Britain, I'm terribly sorry | 0:23:39 | 0:23:43 | |
to say that Captain Mainwaring and the rest | 0:23:43 | 0:23:46 | |
wouldn't have lasted 30 seconds in front of Hitler's Wehrmacht, | 0:23:46 | 0:23:51 | |
the most formidable fighting force the world has ever seen! | 0:23:51 | 0:23:54 | |
But what is so moving, and what the writers of Dad's Army caught | 0:23:54 | 0:23:59 | |
so brilliantly was the fact they were willing to die, | 0:23:59 | 0:24:04 | |
however sillily and however incompetently in the face of that threat. | 0:24:04 | 0:24:08 | |
And that's terribly moving. | 0:24:08 | 0:24:09 | |
We have one invaluable weapon on our side. | 0:24:09 | 0:24:13 | |
We have an unbreakable spirit to win. | 0:24:13 | 0:24:15 | |
A bulldog tenacity that will help us to hang on while there's breath left in our bodies. | 0:24:17 | 0:24:23 | |
You don't get that with Gestapos and jackboots. | 0:24:23 | 0:24:26 | |
You get that by being British. | 0:24:26 | 0:24:29 | |
I'll tell you the key to the success of Dad's Army. | 0:24:29 | 0:24:33 | |
It roused people who'd forgotten all about the war | 0:24:33 | 0:24:39 | |
to what was our greatest hour. | 0:24:39 | 0:24:41 | |
So come on, Adolf - we're ready for you! | 0:24:41 | 0:24:44 | |
CHEERING | 0:24:44 | 0:24:45 | |
They used to take the mickey out of the Home Guard, | 0:24:45 | 0:24:48 | |
but it was amazing, it was backs to the wall. | 0:24:48 | 0:24:53 | |
Nobody understands nowadays, because they can't. | 0:24:53 | 0:24:57 | |
Sitcom would take one step nearer the front line, | 0:24:59 | 0:25:02 | |
as 'Allo 'Allo even found humour in occupied France. | 0:25:02 | 0:25:06 | |
'Allo 'Allo was a much cleverer programme | 0:25:06 | 0:25:08 | |
than it seems on the surface. | 0:25:08 | 0:25:11 | |
The idea of an English guy pretending to be a French policeman, | 0:25:11 | 0:25:15 | |
indicating his bad French by having him speak bad English | 0:25:15 | 0:25:18 | |
is quite a complex idea which they pull off quite well. | 0:25:18 | 0:25:21 | |
I was pissing by the door... | 0:25:23 | 0:25:25 | |
'Allo 'Allo became one of the most popular sitcoms of the '80s... | 0:25:26 | 0:25:30 | |
When I heard two shats. | 0:25:30 | 0:25:33 | |
But it wasn't spoofing the War, so much as television's attitude to it. | 0:25:35 | 0:25:40 | |
Secret Army had already discovered the power of the Resistance. | 0:25:40 | 0:25:44 | |
Here were tales of wartime heroism, | 0:25:44 | 0:25:47 | |
this time played deadly straight. | 0:25:47 | 0:25:50 | |
Secret Army did bring across the heroism of the people | 0:25:50 | 0:25:55 | |
who lived through that period. | 0:25:55 | 0:25:57 | |
Those of us who write about occupied Europe are vary wary about | 0:25:57 | 0:26:02 | |
the jokes about it because it was so serious. | 0:26:02 | 0:26:04 | |
One has to remember in France where 'Allo 'Allo was set, | 0:26:04 | 0:26:07 | |
tens of thousands of people were murdered in cold blood, | 0:26:07 | 0:26:10 | |
by the Nazis, as hostages, or in reprisal for acts of resistance. | 0:26:10 | 0:26:18 | |
There wasn't very much to laugh about in France. | 0:26:18 | 0:26:21 | |
Are you one of them? | 0:26:21 | 0:26:23 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:26:23 | 0:26:26 | |
It was very lonely on the Russian front. | 0:26:26 | 0:26:32 | |
Even now, it's a brave decision to make these German soldiers warm and funny. | 0:26:32 | 0:26:40 | |
A man from the Gestapo is here to see you. | 0:26:40 | 0:26:42 | |
Gestapo! | 0:26:42 | 0:26:45 | |
There's no mention of the genocide and the atrocities in 'Allo 'Allo. | 0:26:45 | 0:26:49 | |
"The programme 'Allo 'Allo is totally offensive." | 0:26:49 | 0:26:51 | |
Mr Thomas also says: | 0:26:51 | 0:26:53 | |
"To make a laugh-a-minute comedy of such an unmitigatedly grisly subject | 0:26:53 | 0:26:57 | |
"is quite monstrous." | 0:26:57 | 0:26:58 | |
I've never forgotten when I was editor of the Daily Telegraph | 0:26:58 | 0:27:01 | |
and our TV correspondent came back from a television festival at which | 0:27:01 | 0:27:05 | |
'Allo 'Allo had been shown, and he said, "The Germans loved it. | 0:27:05 | 0:27:08 | |
"It was the first series they'd ever seen which made them | 0:27:08 | 0:27:12 | |
"look like lovable idiots rather than absolute bastards." | 0:27:12 | 0:27:15 | |
TV's fascination with the Second World War would continue | 0:27:15 | 0:27:19 | |
to grow, but The Great War had fewer chroniclers. | 0:27:19 | 0:27:22 | |
It was longer ago, of course, | 0:27:22 | 0:27:25 | |
and perhaps also lacked that moment of decisive moral choice. | 0:27:25 | 0:27:29 | |
Enter Percy Toplis, The Monocled Mutineer. | 0:27:29 | 0:27:34 | |
I wanted to write, as I had done before, an anti-hero, | 0:27:34 | 0:27:40 | |
who people are kind of horrified by | 0:27:40 | 0:27:46 | |
but can't help falling in love with. | 0:27:46 | 0:27:50 | |
This is something, for example, Yosser Hughes in The Boys From The Blackstuff, | 0:27:50 | 0:27:56 | |
what Yosser Hughes did to people was despicable, but there was something | 0:27:56 | 0:28:02 | |
about the heartbreak of his life that attracted people to him. | 0:28:02 | 0:28:05 | |
I felt with Toplis, who clearly wasn't what anyone would | 0:28:05 | 0:28:10 | |
describe as even a decent human being, there were qualities in him | 0:28:10 | 0:28:16 | |
I admired because he saw the madness and the horror of what was going on | 0:28:16 | 0:28:24 | |
and in his own difficult way realised the truth. | 0:28:24 | 0:28:30 | |
-I shouldn't be here. -No. And I'm not going to die here! | 0:28:30 | 0:28:33 | |
Another bloody lot. I don't believe it. | 0:28:33 | 0:28:36 | |
What the hell are they sending more of them for? | 0:28:36 | 0:28:39 | |
It's a bloody slaughter! | 0:28:39 | 0:28:41 | |
The play marked a departure for Bleasdale - | 0:28:41 | 0:28:43 | |
it was his first historical drama, his first adaptation... | 0:28:43 | 0:28:48 | |
but he had a personal reason for getting involved. | 0:28:48 | 0:28:51 | |
"These scripts are dedicated to George Bleasdale | 0:28:51 | 0:28:54 | |
"who died a prisoner of war in France during the spring of 1917, | 0:28:54 | 0:28:58 | |
"three months before his 10th child, my father, was born." | 0:28:58 | 0:29:03 | |
I don't write dedications for nothing. | 0:29:03 | 0:29:06 | |
The play told the story of a real First World War soldier, | 0:29:06 | 0:29:09 | |
Percy Toplis. | 0:29:09 | 0:29:11 | |
It centred on a real mutiny of British troops at Etaples. | 0:29:11 | 0:29:14 | |
And it caused the mother of all rows. | 0:29:14 | 0:29:17 | |
The Monocled Mutineer was brilliant, | 0:29:17 | 0:29:19 | |
and the more brilliant for all the feathers it ruffled. | 0:29:19 | 0:29:24 | |
There is inherent drama in war, | 0:29:24 | 0:29:27 | |
but if you can do something in a portrayal of war | 0:29:27 | 0:29:30 | |
that makes people question decision making, authority, the establishment, | 0:29:30 | 0:29:37 | |
that can only be a good thing. | 0:29:37 | 0:29:39 | |
They want you to obey. They want you to give in. | 0:29:39 | 0:29:42 | |
They want you to stand there, "Yes, sir, no, sir, be sub whatsits." | 0:29:42 | 0:29:46 | |
And you might as well throw yourself in front of the nearest whizz-bang | 0:29:46 | 0:29:50 | |
because that is what they want and all. | 0:29:50 | 0:29:52 | |
The Monocled Mutineer obviously caused controversy | 0:29:52 | 0:29:55 | |
because if you are portraying a war, you're portraying a dedicated | 0:29:55 | 0:29:59 | |
fighting force, everybody prepared to go over the top | 0:29:59 | 0:30:02 | |
for their country, and this was about a mutiny. | 0:30:02 | 0:30:06 | |
CHEERING | 0:30:06 | 0:30:08 | |
'And it was obviously not something' | 0:30:08 | 0:30:10 | |
that those in authority wanted to see and were very, very keen to decry it. | 0:30:10 | 0:30:15 | |
Who are you? Tell me. | 0:30:15 | 0:30:17 | |
Who are you? | 0:30:17 | 0:30:19 | |
Whoever I want to be. | 0:30:19 | 0:30:21 | |
And who are you? | 0:30:22 | 0:30:24 | |
Anymore? | 0:30:24 | 0:30:26 | |
'My problem with...' | 0:30:26 | 0:30:27 | |
the kerfuffle about the Monocled Mutineer | 0:30:27 | 0:30:32 | |
was that, as I've said to you, | 0:30:32 | 0:30:33 | |
I was writing it for my dad and the granddad I never knew, | 0:30:33 | 0:30:37 | |
and then... | 0:30:37 | 0:30:39 | |
I realised there were people | 0:30:39 | 0:30:42 | |
who were trying to get | 0:30:42 | 0:30:44 | |
at the basic philosophy of the piece, but more really, | 0:30:44 | 0:30:47 | |
trying to get at the BBC at the time. | 0:30:47 | 0:30:50 | |
This was 30 years ago. Nothing changes. | 0:30:50 | 0:30:52 | |
The BBC were already under attack for alleged left-wing bias. | 0:30:52 | 0:30:56 | |
They were being sued by two Conservative MPS. | 0:30:56 | 0:30:59 | |
There'd been calls for the Director General to resign. | 0:30:59 | 0:31:02 | |
Now the battle commenced. | 0:31:02 | 0:31:04 | |
The BBC were being gunned at. | 0:31:04 | 0:31:06 | |
The BBC were being attacked | 0:31:06 | 0:31:09 | |
and their enemies were looking for any way to fire the guns at them. | 0:31:09 | 0:31:13 | |
The BBC defended the work, | 0:31:13 | 0:31:15 | |
but they'd already shot themselves in the foot. | 0:31:15 | 0:31:19 | |
Three little words in an early advertising campaign | 0:31:19 | 0:31:22 | |
had given their enemies the ammunition they needed. | 0:31:22 | 0:31:25 | |
What it said, I think I've got it here... | 0:31:25 | 0:31:28 | |
.."It was an enthralling, true-life story of Percy Toplis." | 0:31:31 | 0:31:36 | |
Double page spread in every newspaper, | 0:31:36 | 0:31:40 | |
and I died inside, because I knew it wasn't true life, | 0:31:40 | 0:31:44 | |
I knew that character was to a degree fictional, | 0:31:44 | 0:31:48 | |
and I knew I'd made an awful lot of stuff up, | 0:31:48 | 0:31:51 | |
and I knew then that I was going to be attacked. | 0:31:51 | 0:31:54 | |
Attention focused on the alleged historical inaccuracies. | 0:31:54 | 0:31:59 | |
Had the extent of the mutiny been exaggerated? | 0:31:59 | 0:32:01 | |
Had the real life Toplis been there at all? | 0:32:01 | 0:32:04 | |
Beyond that lurked the bigger question - | 0:32:04 | 0:32:07 | |
to what extent should drama be tied to the facts? | 0:32:07 | 0:32:10 | |
Can it tell the greater truth about war? | 0:32:10 | 0:32:14 | |
I hated the Monocled Mutineer because I'm a historian | 0:32:14 | 0:32:17 | |
and I know too much about that period. | 0:32:17 | 0:32:20 | |
I never thought of this as a drama doc or a documentary. | 0:32:20 | 0:32:25 | |
It certainly wasn't a true life story because nothing adds up, | 0:32:25 | 0:32:29 | |
it doesn't, but I tried to make it add up. | 0:32:29 | 0:32:31 | |
I never quite understand why television dramatists feel | 0:32:31 | 0:32:36 | |
they have to impose fiction on real events, | 0:32:36 | 0:32:39 | |
in quite that way. | 0:32:39 | 0:32:41 | |
I can't for the life of me see why they can't tell their great truths | 0:32:41 | 0:32:45 | |
within a fictional context. | 0:32:45 | 0:32:47 | |
'The argument is - and I'm not comparing myself to Shakespeare -' | 0:32:48 | 0:32:52 | |
that Richard III wasn't really real, you know, | 0:32:52 | 0:32:56 | |
it wasn't historically correct, but it made great drama. | 0:32:56 | 0:32:59 | |
The Monocled Mutineer was critically acclaimed and politically savaged. | 0:32:59 | 0:33:04 | |
But for all its alleged subversiveness, in some senses | 0:33:06 | 0:33:09 | |
the play expressed what's now the accepted view of World War One. | 0:33:09 | 0:33:13 | |
'What Toplis does, he plays the part of the modern man.' | 0:33:13 | 0:33:17 | |
You're never going to identify with anybody else in this story | 0:33:17 | 0:33:20 | |
because by this point our culture has absolutely decided | 0:33:20 | 0:33:24 | |
that all the First World War was, | 0:33:24 | 0:33:25 | |
was a foolish, senseless, waste of human life. | 0:33:25 | 0:33:28 | |
If you want an example of how firmly the idea | 0:33:28 | 0:33:33 | |
has crystallised in our culture, then Blackadder IV does it for you. | 0:33:33 | 0:33:38 | |
I love Blackadder, but up the same time, | 0:33:38 | 0:33:40 | |
one has to remember that it is simply not history. | 0:33:40 | 0:33:43 | |
I think there has been an orthodoxy which has developed, | 0:33:43 | 0:33:47 | |
in many ways almost a caricature of the First World War, | 0:33:47 | 0:33:50 | |
of lions led by donkeys. I think there's always a terrible temptation | 0:33:50 | 0:33:55 | |
to almost exaggerate it in a lot of the televisual depiction | 0:33:55 | 0:33:59 | |
of the First World War. | 0:33:59 | 0:34:00 | |
Perhaps a truly radical play would be the one that now argues | 0:34:00 | 0:34:04 | |
The Great War was worth fighting. | 0:34:04 | 0:34:06 | |
A great many people today say, | 0:34:06 | 0:34:08 | |
no cause could possibly have been worth the slaughter that we suffered. | 0:34:08 | 0:34:12 | |
I personally think, that if the Kaiser's Germany had prevailed in the First World War, | 0:34:12 | 0:34:17 | |
the consequences for Europe would've been as grievous as if the Nazis had prevailed in the Second. | 0:34:17 | 0:34:22 | |
For years, television dramatists had been confined to old wars and cold wars. | 0:34:23 | 0:34:27 | |
But in the 1980s, that had changed. | 0:34:27 | 0:34:31 | |
A mere four days ago, scenes such as this were utterly unthinkable. | 0:34:31 | 0:34:36 | |
This is a British fleet putting to sea, not on some training exercise, | 0:34:36 | 0:34:40 | |
but sailing with every intention of doing battle with an enemy. | 0:34:40 | 0:34:44 | |
It was an old fashioned war in many ways, the Falklands War. | 0:34:44 | 0:34:47 | |
It was fought with fairly conventional weapons. | 0:34:47 | 0:34:49 | |
In a sense, it was Britain's last burst | 0:34:49 | 0:34:52 | |
of being a mini super power, if you like. | 0:34:52 | 0:34:55 | |
That period, the 1970s, the British had been screwing up almost everything. | 0:34:57 | 0:35:00 | |
And here was something we did terribly well. | 0:35:00 | 0:35:03 | |
It had all the criteria for the perfect colonial war - | 0:35:03 | 0:35:07 | |
it didn't go on too long, it had a beginning, middle and end, | 0:35:07 | 0:35:11 | |
the other side weren't very good and we won. | 0:35:11 | 0:35:15 | |
After so long watching war on television, | 0:35:15 | 0:35:18 | |
out of nowhere came a chance to relive our finest hour. | 0:35:18 | 0:35:22 | |
Basically, the concern was that we would get there | 0:35:22 | 0:35:25 | |
and it would be finished. | 0:35:25 | 0:35:27 | |
That was the real worry. | 0:35:27 | 0:35:30 | |
There was a chance there may have been diplomatic clean up, | 0:35:30 | 0:35:33 | |
and that was a worry, that we might have to turn around and come back. | 0:35:33 | 0:35:37 | |
As you get closer, the amazement of what you're walking into | 0:35:37 | 0:35:41 | |
does dawn on you | 0:35:41 | 0:35:43 | |
and what you know it best from, is having grown up watching war movies. | 0:35:43 | 0:35:48 | |
All the people fighting the Falklands had been brought up | 0:35:48 | 0:35:51 | |
on World War II '50s movies | 0:35:51 | 0:35:53 | |
and they devised their scripts on the bridge in action | 0:35:53 | 0:35:57 | |
from those war movies. | 0:35:57 | 0:35:59 | |
So suddenly on the QE2 going down there, we're saying, | 0:35:59 | 0:36:03 | |
"Keep an eye on Tommy the tiger fish..." | 0:36:03 | 0:36:05 | |
i.e. a torpedo from a submarine or a ship that might try and sink us. | 0:36:05 | 0:36:10 | |
When you get down there and you're on the islands, | 0:36:13 | 0:36:15 | |
I don't care how good the last Richard Todd movie you saw was, | 0:36:15 | 0:36:19 | |
it's not really what you're thinking about. | 0:36:19 | 0:36:21 | |
But you understand, in a sense, what's classically expected of you. | 0:36:21 | 0:36:25 | |
We're now between the two gun lines | 0:36:28 | 0:36:30 | |
and there's a right old artillery dual going on between them... | 0:36:30 | 0:36:34 | |
By now we had journalists embedded with the troops. | 0:36:34 | 0:36:37 | |
But the real drama still happened off camera. | 0:36:37 | 0:36:40 | |
Our major action was the final action on Mount Tumbledown | 0:36:40 | 0:36:45 | |
just outside Port Stanley. | 0:36:45 | 0:36:46 | |
It was, you know, a hell of an experience. | 0:36:46 | 0:36:50 | |
The battle made an eerie sight, | 0:36:50 | 0:36:52 | |
the British progress marked only by the lines of tracer. | 0:36:52 | 0:36:56 | |
I ended up having to lead an assault against a machine gun post. | 0:36:56 | 0:37:01 | |
It was a case of doing what you do in the movies. | 0:37:01 | 0:37:04 | |
I stood up, I shouted, "Follow me", | 0:37:04 | 0:37:07 | |
and threw a grenade. | 0:37:07 | 0:37:09 | |
That night's events would inspire Charles Woods' Falklands war film, Tumbledown. | 0:37:17 | 0:37:22 | |
There's a number of things going through your mind during these battles, | 0:37:24 | 0:37:28 | |
the brain works very fast. | 0:37:28 | 0:37:29 | |
I remember being shocked at how physically hard it was to kill a man. | 0:37:29 | 0:37:35 | |
The idea of the classic lunge to the stomach, you know, | 0:37:35 | 0:37:39 | |
isn't really what happens at the end of the day. | 0:37:39 | 0:37:42 | |
They're grabbing hold of your rifle and it becomes extremely unpleasant. | 0:37:42 | 0:37:47 | |
Lawrence dispatched several men on his way to the top of Mount Tumbledown, | 0:37:47 | 0:37:51 | |
before he in turn was shot in the head by an Argentine sniper. | 0:37:51 | 0:37:55 | |
I was probably saved | 0:37:55 | 0:37:57 | |
by the extreme cold, which shut my body down, | 0:37:57 | 0:38:01 | |
but by the end of my operations, | 0:38:01 | 0:38:05 | |
having been cleaned up, I'd lost 42% of my brain. | 0:38:05 | 0:38:08 | |
-What are you doing? -Just cleaning up, that's all. | 0:38:08 | 0:38:12 | |
'It was obvious that I was out of the army.' | 0:38:12 | 0:38:14 | |
The minimum requirement is that you can run away, | 0:38:14 | 0:38:17 | |
I would have thought, and I can't. | 0:38:17 | 0:38:19 | |
-You all right, Robert? -No! | 0:38:19 | 0:38:21 | |
'So many veterans of the Second World War | 0:38:23 | 0:38:27 | |
'didn't really talk about their experiences,' | 0:38:27 | 0:38:29 | |
mainly because so many people around you | 0:38:29 | 0:38:32 | |
had similar experiences, or other experiences. You felt no need. | 0:38:32 | 0:38:37 | |
'So I determined I had a duty to inform my generation | 0:38:37 | 0:38:41 | |
'a bit more about the nature of war.' | 0:38:41 | 0:38:44 | |
The members of the Royal Family | 0:38:44 | 0:38:46 | |
take their places at the front of this huge... | 0:38:46 | 0:38:51 | |
silent, standing congregation. | 0:38:51 | 0:38:54 | |
Tumbledown looked back at the battle but focussed on what happened next. | 0:38:54 | 0:38:58 | |
'The wounded weren't allowed on the Victory Parade. | 0:38:59 | 0:39:02 | |
'I was not allowed in uniform at the St Paul's memorial service | 0:39:02 | 0:39:06 | |
'because I was in a wheelchair,' | 0:39:06 | 0:39:08 | |
and I looked around and realised how little we'd improved, | 0:39:08 | 0:39:12 | |
in those days especially, in our care of veterans. | 0:39:12 | 0:39:15 | |
These men were put in a position to defend a very small territory, | 0:39:15 | 0:39:20 | |
and the price they pay is enormously high | 0:39:20 | 0:39:22 | |
and the indifference of the government and the authorities to them seemed to be monumental. | 0:39:22 | 0:39:28 | |
Two hours I've been sitting here. | 0:39:28 | 0:39:30 | |
Two hours. | 0:39:30 | 0:39:32 | |
Couldn't see a thing. | 0:39:32 | 0:39:34 | |
Its tales of post-traumatic stress disorder and bureaucratic | 0:39:34 | 0:39:38 | |
indifference ensured a hostile reception from the army. | 0:39:38 | 0:39:42 | |
-What are they frightened of? -But the film also captured the real drama of war. | 0:39:42 | 0:39:47 | |
'I grew up watching Reach For The Sky.' | 0:39:51 | 0:39:54 | |
I have a brother who refers to Tumbledown as Reach For The Sky with swearing. | 0:39:54 | 0:39:58 | |
'Nothing should be pro-war, clearly,' | 0:40:00 | 0:40:03 | |
and nothing should be anti-war, solely. | 0:40:03 | 0:40:07 | |
You know, I'm a soldier, I enjoy soldiering, | 0:40:07 | 0:40:10 | |
and it would be wrong to pretend I didn't. | 0:40:10 | 0:40:12 | |
After 30 years, television had finally made a war film | 0:40:12 | 0:40:16 | |
that matched anything in the cinema, | 0:40:16 | 0:40:19 | |
complete with a cinematic ending. | 0:40:19 | 0:40:21 | |
ISN'T THIS FUN?! | 0:40:21 | 0:40:23 | |
How thick do you have to be to think I actually did that? | 0:40:27 | 0:40:30 | |
The words, "Isn't this fun?", | 0:40:30 | 0:40:32 | |
I'd used it probably an hour and a half before the end. | 0:40:32 | 0:40:37 | |
I recall desperately trying to get the director | 0:40:37 | 0:40:42 | |
to change that image of me standing with my arms in the air shouting, "Isn't this fun?", | 0:40:42 | 0:40:48 | |
and I said, "There's no way I would highlight myself on a ridge like that", | 0:40:48 | 0:40:54 | |
to which the answer was, "Listen, Robert, this is film." | 0:40:54 | 0:40:57 | |
For the first time for many years, | 0:40:58 | 0:41:00 | |
British sovereign territory has been invaded by a foreign power. | 0:41:00 | 0:41:05 | |
Television had become a battleground for conflicting opinions about war. | 0:41:05 | 0:41:10 | |
At the heart of the debate was the relationship between drama and history. | 0:41:10 | 0:41:14 | |
In The Falklands Play, Ian Curteis, the veteran dramatist of Suez | 0:41:14 | 0:41:18 | |
and Churchill, looked not at the war, but at the reasons for it. | 0:41:18 | 0:41:23 | |
I don't feel I'm drawn to war. | 0:41:23 | 0:41:25 | |
I think I'm drawn to the politics of why war becomes inevitable. | 0:41:25 | 0:41:29 | |
People say to me occasionally, "You write about war", | 0:41:29 | 0:41:33 | |
and I say, "Well, I don't write about fighting. | 0:41:33 | 0:41:36 | |
"It's the politics of the thing, and the personal struggles behind the scenes." | 0:41:36 | 0:41:40 | |
The Falklands Play had been thoroughly researched, | 0:41:40 | 0:41:43 | |
but this was no drama documentary. It was a play with an opinion. | 0:41:43 | 0:41:47 | |
Margaret! | 0:41:47 | 0:41:48 | |
I think the difference between a play and a dramatised documentary | 0:41:48 | 0:41:52 | |
is that a dramatised documentary is supposed to be impartial. | 0:41:52 | 0:41:55 | |
A play based on history, a totally different animal, which is what I write, | 0:41:55 | 0:41:59 | |
sticks to the essential facts, simplifies them, | 0:41:59 | 0:42:02 | |
but tries to get into the heads and the motives of the people going on. | 0:42:02 | 0:42:07 | |
There was no mistaking the key player in The Falklands Play. | 0:42:07 | 0:42:10 | |
This is Margaret Thatcher. Can I help? | 0:42:10 | 0:42:13 | |
'The Falklands Play portrayed Margaret Thatcher as a very introspective,' | 0:42:13 | 0:42:17 | |
rather thoughtful, rather tortured soul, | 0:42:17 | 0:42:20 | |
instead of the battleaxe, | 0:42:20 | 0:42:23 | |
the Iron Lady that everybody had come to see her as. | 0:42:23 | 0:42:25 | |
It's a terrible thing to send those men in to fight, | 0:42:26 | 0:42:29 | |
to risk their young lives in those atrocious conditions. | 0:42:29 | 0:42:34 | |
-They're professionals. -Of course they are, and superb, but... | 0:42:34 | 0:42:38 | |
I've never seen fighting, Willy. | 0:42:38 | 0:42:42 | |
'Mrs Thatcher wasn't popular in the broadcasting world' | 0:42:42 | 0:42:45 | |
to put it lightly. | 0:42:45 | 0:42:48 | |
So a number of things I was asked to change about her, | 0:42:48 | 0:42:51 | |
which I said, "That would be wrong. It didn't happen like that". | 0:42:51 | 0:42:54 | |
The BBC demanded changes. Curteis was unwilling to make them. | 0:42:54 | 0:42:58 | |
When the production stalled, he went public with his grievances. | 0:42:58 | 0:43:01 | |
Once more, an attempt to dramatise war | 0:43:01 | 0:43:05 | |
had become mired in controversy. | 0:43:05 | 0:43:07 | |
We've heard the author tell us it was because he was unwilling | 0:43:07 | 0:43:11 | |
to introduce fictional matter | 0:43:11 | 0:43:13 | |
critical of the Government into his play as a condition of its screening. | 0:43:13 | 0:43:18 | |
We still await a plausible explanation of that affair. | 0:43:18 | 0:43:22 | |
The BBC had an explanation for the play's cancellation. | 0:43:22 | 0:43:25 | |
They said the work wasn't very good. | 0:43:25 | 0:43:28 | |
I made it very clear at the time to the Board of Governors, | 0:43:28 | 0:43:32 | |
to the press, to anybody who was interested, that the sole grounds | 0:43:32 | 0:43:36 | |
for not going ahead with the commission | 0:43:36 | 0:43:39 | |
was the fact that I didn't think the script was good enough. | 0:43:39 | 0:43:42 | |
I know what he said, cos it was in the press report which followed the actual press conference he gave. | 0:43:42 | 0:43:48 | |
I seethed, and I suppose I used to lie awake at three in the morning seething, | 0:43:49 | 0:43:54 | |
but one can't do anything at that time. The best thing to do is to go to sleep again, | 0:43:54 | 0:43:58 | |
hoping that it would see the light of day. | 0:43:58 | 0:44:00 | |
Cancelled in the run up to the 1987 election, The Falklands Play | 0:44:00 | 0:44:06 | |
finally went out 15 years later, | 0:44:06 | 0:44:08 | |
on a smaller budget, and with a number of cuts. | 0:44:08 | 0:44:12 | |
It took a sympathetic line on the most controversial moment in the war. | 0:44:12 | 0:44:16 | |
Pincer movement? | 0:44:16 | 0:44:18 | |
The Belgrano and her escorts, carrying Exocets, could suddenly turn and steam hard north. | 0:44:18 | 0:44:25 | |
The Veinticinco de Mayo could simultaneously steam south and launch her Skyhawk attack aircraft. | 0:44:25 | 0:44:31 | |
The facts are known as to what happened about the Belgrano, | 0:44:31 | 0:44:34 | |
what the Belgrano was about to do, what the Belgrano was about to attack, | 0:44:34 | 0:44:37 | |
and that there was a pincer movement happening. | 0:44:37 | 0:44:39 | |
There's bound to be tremendous world reaction. | 0:44:39 | 0:44:42 | |
It's a major escalation of the fighting. | 0:44:42 | 0:44:44 | |
But they've been trying to sink our ships, kill our boys. | 0:44:44 | 0:44:48 | |
They invaded, not us. | 0:44:48 | 0:44:49 | |
Like so many plays before it, | 0:44:49 | 0:44:51 | |
The Falklands Play nailed its colours to the mast. | 0:44:51 | 0:44:55 | |
I think it was a just war. | 0:44:55 | 0:44:57 | |
All war is to be avoided if conceivably possible | 0:44:57 | 0:45:01 | |
but some wars have to be fought. | 0:45:01 | 0:45:03 | |
NEWSCASTER: A massive air campaign has begun. | 0:45:07 | 0:45:09 | |
Baghdad has been under heavy bombardment tonight. | 0:45:09 | 0:45:12 | |
Wars are fought in a new way today and covered in a new way by television. | 0:45:12 | 0:45:16 | |
It's unclear exactly how many Iraqi troops are up ahead of us. | 0:45:16 | 0:45:19 | |
We get journalists dispatching reports from the front line, | 0:45:19 | 0:45:23 | |
even soldiers shooting the action on cameras in their helmets. | 0:45:23 | 0:45:27 | |
It's brought us closer to war than ever before. | 0:45:27 | 0:45:30 | |
The way television - in particular, but maybe the internet as well - | 0:45:30 | 0:45:34 | |
looks at war has changed dramatically and permanently now. | 0:45:34 | 0:45:38 | |
The fact there's so much access to pictures of war, | 0:45:38 | 0:45:41 | |
whether it's from soldiers' own phones or 24-hour rolling news, | 0:45:41 | 0:45:44 | |
it means there's no secrets in war any more. | 0:45:44 | 0:45:47 | |
In spite, or perhaps because of the blanket coverage, it seems many | 0:45:47 | 0:45:51 | |
of the certainties we once had about war have disappeared. | 0:45:51 | 0:45:55 | |
We see the human cost much more than we ever did in the Second World War, | 0:45:55 | 0:45:59 | |
and that in a sense adds to our feeling of confusion. | 0:45:59 | 0:46:03 | |
We don't quite know why we're there, we don't know which side who's on, | 0:46:03 | 0:46:07 | |
we don't know who are goodies and baddies, | 0:46:07 | 0:46:10 | |
we don't know what the population of Afghanistan or Iraq really want. | 0:46:10 | 0:46:14 | |
I don't think we can find our thread through it all. | 0:46:14 | 0:46:16 | |
For dramatists entering this fray, perhaps the safest approach | 0:46:16 | 0:46:20 | |
is to stick as close as possible to the facts. | 0:46:20 | 0:46:23 | |
When Ten Days To War brought to life the second Iraq war's | 0:46:23 | 0:46:26 | |
most famous eve of battle speech, it did it word for word. | 0:46:26 | 0:46:31 | |
So, we're on, sir? | 0:46:31 | 0:46:33 | |
It looks like it. | 0:46:33 | 0:46:35 | |
Can I ask you something, sir? | 0:46:35 | 0:46:37 | |
Not now. | 0:46:37 | 0:46:39 | |
My concern was piqued by one of my soldiers who asked me, | 0:46:39 | 0:46:42 | |
"Are we about to invade Iraq, and if so, why?" | 0:46:42 | 0:46:45 | |
And that realisation that no-one had actually told me | 0:46:45 | 0:46:49 | |
what was meant to be happening. | 0:46:49 | 0:46:51 | |
-What do you think I should say? -I'm sure you'll think of something. | 0:46:51 | 0:46:55 | |
I felt that as I expected many of my young Irish soldiers | 0:46:56 | 0:47:01 | |
were about to lay down their lives in this war, | 0:47:01 | 0:47:04 | |
and certainly to take other human lives, | 0:47:04 | 0:47:07 | |
that I personally owed them an explanation. | 0:47:07 | 0:47:10 | |
We are going into Iraq to liberate and not to conquer. | 0:47:10 | 0:47:17 | |
We will not fly our flags in their country. | 0:47:17 | 0:47:20 | |
I was keen to emphasise they should be respectful towards | 0:47:20 | 0:47:24 | |
other people and mankind because I know what can happen in combat. | 0:47:24 | 0:47:27 | |
Iraq is steeped in history. | 0:47:27 | 0:47:31 | |
It is the site of the Garden of Eden. | 0:47:31 | 0:47:34 | |
The Great Flood, | 0:47:36 | 0:47:38 | |
It is the birthplace of Abraham. | 0:47:39 | 0:47:41 | |
You tread... | 0:47:41 | 0:47:43 | |
You tread lightly there. | 0:47:46 | 0:47:48 | |
I made the speech up as I went along but apparently it made sense. | 0:47:48 | 0:47:52 | |
It was written down in shorthand by a journalist | 0:47:52 | 0:47:55 | |
and it wasn't recorded by any electronic media, | 0:47:55 | 0:47:58 | |
so when the hungry 24-hour news world wanted to grab it, | 0:47:58 | 0:48:02 | |
'all there was was pieces of paper.' | 0:48:02 | 0:48:04 | |
I expect you to rock their world. | 0:48:04 | 0:48:08 | |
Wipe them out, if that's what they choose. | 0:48:08 | 0:48:11 | |
If you are ferocious in battle, remember to be magnanimous in victory. | 0:48:13 | 0:48:18 | |
Actually, they did capture very accurately the spirit | 0:48:18 | 0:48:22 | |
and the immediacy of the time and the tension and the anger as well. | 0:48:22 | 0:48:27 | |
Let's bring everybody home safely | 0:48:27 | 0:48:31 | |
and leave Iraq a better place for us having been there. | 0:48:31 | 0:48:35 | |
The speech to the First Battalion of the Royal Irish Regiment | 0:48:35 | 0:48:38 | |
became a global phenomenon. | 0:48:38 | 0:48:40 | |
The words reportedly ended up pinned to the Oval Office wall. | 0:48:40 | 0:48:44 | |
It would appear the rest of the English-speaking world | 0:48:44 | 0:48:48 | |
was seeking some explanation of what was happening, | 0:48:48 | 0:48:52 | |
and I suspect that's why many people latched onto it. | 0:48:52 | 0:48:55 | |
Good luck. | 0:48:55 | 0:48:57 | |
Opinions were divided on Iraq and Afghanistan but there was | 0:48:59 | 0:49:02 | |
general agreement on one thing - neither war was very funny. | 0:49:02 | 0:49:07 | |
# We could have been anything that we wanted to be | 0:49:07 | 0:49:11 | |
# With all the talent we have... # | 0:49:11 | 0:49:14 | |
One of the few brave enough to give it a go | 0:49:14 | 0:49:17 | |
was BBC Three's Gary: Tank Commander. | 0:49:17 | 0:49:20 | |
# We're the very best at being bad guys. # | 0:49:20 | 0:49:25 | |
Gary: Tank Commander is basically about a group of squaddies | 0:49:25 | 0:49:29 | |
led by the character of Corporal Gary McLintoch, | 0:49:29 | 0:49:32 | |
who you could describe possibly as...a confident fool. | 0:49:32 | 0:49:38 | |
Who knows what's going to happen in Iraq? | 0:49:38 | 0:49:42 | |
It might turn into the new Ibiza. | 0:49:42 | 0:49:45 | |
You know? | 0:49:45 | 0:49:46 | |
Maybe next year folk'll ask you where you're going on your holidays | 0:49:46 | 0:49:50 | |
and you might be like, "I'm off to Basra." | 0:49:50 | 0:49:52 | |
He thinks he's very aware of the world | 0:49:52 | 0:49:54 | |
and the political problems leading up to Iraq | 0:49:54 | 0:49:57 | |
and Afghanistan so he's got his own world view | 0:49:57 | 0:49:59 | |
on what the real issues are and how to resolve them. | 0:49:59 | 0:50:03 | |
A lot of folk'll say "That'll never happen. Look at all the violence. | 0:50:03 | 0:50:07 | |
"Look how run-down it is, there's no industry, there's nothing to do, the hotels are rubbish." | 0:50:07 | 0:50:12 | |
But look at Blackpool! | 0:50:12 | 0:50:14 | |
Gary Tank Commander tipped its hat to some of its illustrious predecessors. | 0:50:14 | 0:50:18 | |
Dad's Army. Do you remember that? "Don't tell me your name, Pike!" | 0:50:18 | 0:50:22 | |
That was his name. That was funny. I liked that. | 0:50:22 | 0:50:24 | |
-And that old boy, what was he called? -Mainwaring? | 0:50:24 | 0:50:27 | |
-No. -Jonesy? | 0:50:27 | 0:50:29 | |
-No, the old boy! -"We're dooooomed!" Him? | 0:50:29 | 0:50:33 | |
No! | 0:50:33 | 0:50:34 | |
It's about opposites. Rene Artois in 'Allo 'Allo! is the unlikely hero | 0:50:34 | 0:50:39 | |
and you don't expect that. | 0:50:39 | 0:50:41 | |
Mainwaring's an unlikely leader of men in Dad's Army. | 0:50:41 | 0:50:46 | |
Gary is another unlikely leader. | 0:50:46 | 0:50:48 | |
What was it he used to say? He'd be like, "I was just passin'..." | 0:50:48 | 0:50:54 | |
That's 'Allo 'Allo! Gary. | 0:50:54 | 0:50:56 | |
But if comedy is tragedy plus time, them something was missing. | 0:50:56 | 0:51:02 | |
Here was a sitcom which brokered the past by being set in the present. | 0:51:02 | 0:51:07 | |
The longer you're away from a conflict, the safer it seems | 0:51:07 | 0:51:10 | |
to be able to say something about it. | 0:51:10 | 0:51:13 | |
It's probably easier for Black Adder to set its final series | 0:51:13 | 0:51:16 | |
during the First World War than it would have been | 0:51:16 | 0:51:18 | |
to set it during the Second World War or The Falklands War. | 0:51:18 | 0:51:21 | |
We're not far off the back of Iraq and yet we're writing a sitcom, | 0:51:21 | 0:51:24 | |
and Afghanistan's still going, so you don't get the same leeway. | 0:51:24 | 0:51:28 | |
You have to be quite sensitive about how you deal with it. | 0:51:28 | 0:51:31 | |
One way of dealing with is to set the action between tours of duty. | 0:51:31 | 0:51:35 | |
The front only features in the form of flashbacks, | 0:51:35 | 0:51:38 | |
shot as soldiers' home video. | 0:51:38 | 0:51:40 | |
When I was researching the show | 0:51:40 | 0:51:42 | |
and trying to capture the essence of the camaraderie, | 0:51:42 | 0:51:45 | |
I was looking up clips online and seeing what soldiers were doing. | 0:51:45 | 0:51:48 | |
I thought it'd be nice to get something troops were doing | 0:51:48 | 0:51:51 | |
out in Afghanistan and Iraq and representing it in the show. | 0:51:51 | 0:51:54 | |
BAGPIPES PLAY "WE WILL ROCK YOU" | 0:51:54 | 0:51:56 | |
Camaraderie, by definition, is fun, whether it's down the pub | 0:51:56 | 0:52:00 | |
with your football team | 0:52:00 | 0:52:01 | |
or whether it's in the trenches of the First World War | 0:52:01 | 0:52:04 | |
or whether it's currently in Afghanistan. | 0:52:04 | 0:52:07 | |
That's a fun bonding experience | 0:52:07 | 0:52:10 | |
and you don't see that when you're watching the news. | 0:52:10 | 0:52:13 | |
All we get is another soldier killed, another soldier maimed, but we don't | 0:52:13 | 0:52:18 | |
get much insight into any other workings of army life, so I think | 0:52:18 | 0:52:23 | |
that soldiers watch the show and like the fact we're seeing a different side to how soldiers are portrayed. | 0:52:23 | 0:52:29 | |
If you trawl the Internet, | 0:52:37 | 0:52:38 | |
you'll see people saying, "This is dreadful. This isn't funny". | 0:52:38 | 0:52:42 | |
But one interesting thing a soldier said to me was, | 0:52:42 | 0:52:45 | |
"You can't offend soldiers". | 0:52:45 | 0:52:47 | |
If you think about what they've experienced, you just can't touch it. | 0:52:47 | 0:52:51 | |
You can't offend them. | 0:52:51 | 0:52:52 | |
If you're making some jokes in a sitcom, they're not affected by that. | 0:52:52 | 0:52:56 | |
As British troops fought in foreign fields, the War Against Terror | 0:53:02 | 0:53:06 | |
came to our doorstep. TV's response? The re-invention | 0:53:06 | 0:53:10 | |
of the '60s spy thriller for the post-9/11 age. | 0:53:10 | 0:53:14 | |
The idea of counter-terrorism is attractive to TV for several reasons. | 0:53:14 | 0:53:19 | |
It's something very Zeitgeist-y, something in the newspapers. | 0:53:19 | 0:53:23 | |
Rather like the old Cold War stories, | 0:53:23 | 0:53:26 | |
it's one that you don't need a gigantic budget to stage. | 0:53:26 | 0:53:29 | |
People in Spooks spend most of their time just looking at computers. | 0:53:29 | 0:53:33 | |
Take it back a bit. | 0:53:33 | 0:53:36 | |
They're our bombers. | 0:53:36 | 0:53:37 | |
That world has occasional outbursts of action | 0:53:37 | 0:53:41 | |
but mostly it's people in rooms shouting at each other. | 0:53:41 | 0:53:45 | |
Counter the order to push people back into the station. Get everybody out. | 0:53:46 | 0:53:50 | |
One of most common questions I'm asked is, | 0:53:50 | 0:53:53 | |
"Is Spooks really like it really is?" | 0:53:53 | 0:53:57 | |
There's people in the station. The roof will come down in five minutes! | 0:53:57 | 0:54:01 | |
Of course the answer is no, it's not like it really is! | 0:54:01 | 0:54:03 | |
Three, two, one, cut. | 0:54:03 | 0:54:07 | |
Well done, everybody. | 0:54:13 | 0:54:14 | |
There's something about TV drama which seems to consist of going out | 0:54:14 | 0:54:20 | |
and killing the enemy. | 0:54:20 | 0:54:21 | |
Where's the bomb? Where's the bomb?! | 0:54:21 | 0:54:24 | |
And killing the enemy is actually not what's done at all. | 0:54:24 | 0:54:28 | |
British Intelligence doesn't kill people. If there's killing to be done, it's done by the military. | 0:54:28 | 0:54:35 | |
I don't know how, when people have watched an episode of Spooks, | 0:54:37 | 0:54:41 | |
for example, how they then feel. Do they feel reassured? | 0:54:41 | 0:54:45 | |
There are people going around saving us. | 0:54:45 | 0:54:48 | |
Or do they feel frightfully anxious that these dreadful things | 0:54:48 | 0:54:53 | |
are going on on our streets? | 0:54:53 | 0:54:55 | |
If it were me, I'd feel frightfully anxious | 0:54:55 | 0:54:57 | |
that the people protecting us look so over-excitable. | 0:54:57 | 0:55:02 | |
In the midst of the War Against Terror, television's fascination | 0:55:02 | 0:55:07 | |
with the Second World War was as strong as ever. | 0:55:07 | 0:55:09 | |
Even without the comedy accents, the Nazis still made the best bad guys. | 0:55:09 | 0:55:16 | |
Or did they? | 0:55:16 | 0:55:17 | |
The Sinking Of The Laconia told the true-life story of a U-Boat commander who torpedoed a ship | 0:55:22 | 0:55:28 | |
before putting his crew's life in danger to rescue the survivors. | 0:55:28 | 0:55:34 | |
I didn't create him, he was there. Commander Hartenstein. | 0:55:34 | 0:55:38 | |
For me, one of the extraordinary heroes of the 20th century. | 0:55:38 | 0:55:43 | |
It was a gift to me to have someone like that | 0:55:43 | 0:55:47 | |
because it showed you that in the middle of the violence, | 0:55:47 | 0:55:53 | |
hatred and savagery of the Nazi philosophy, | 0:55:53 | 0:55:57 | |
somebody had kept his moral valour. | 0:55:57 | 0:56:01 | |
It was the same blend of drama and historical fact | 0:56:31 | 0:56:34 | |
Bleasdale had brought to the Monocled Mutineer, | 0:56:34 | 0:56:37 | |
but this time his defences were up. | 0:56:37 | 0:56:39 | |
When I wrote the first draft, I was hysterically factually correct | 0:56:39 | 0:56:47 | |
beyond my own belief that I could do that. | 0:56:47 | 0:56:51 | |
If that submarine fired that torpedo on the 13th of September 1942, | 0:56:51 | 0:56:58 | |
it didn't fire it at just around 8 o'clock. | 0:56:58 | 0:57:02 | |
It fired it at 8.08 and 13 seconds. | 0:57:02 | 0:57:06 | |
Television has dramatised war through the ages across the genres. | 0:57:06 | 0:57:12 | |
It's told us the stories of those involved and illuminated the decisions they've made. | 0:57:12 | 0:57:17 | |
Sometimes it's done it so well we've not been sure what we've been watching. | 0:57:17 | 0:57:23 | |
We are living in an age when people have so little idea | 0:57:23 | 0:57:26 | |
of the dividing line between fact and fiction. | 0:57:26 | 0:57:28 | |
I do think it's terrifying, this blend we've developed | 0:57:28 | 0:57:33 | |
in recent years, in an age of historical ignorance. | 0:57:33 | 0:57:36 | |
With drama becoming more realistic and documentary becoming more dramatic, | 0:57:36 | 0:57:40 | |
how will TV go to war in the future? | 0:57:40 | 0:57:43 | |
Will drama be relegated to filling in the bits the news cameras miss? | 0:57:43 | 0:57:47 | |
Or does it still have something to say about war in the modern age? | 0:57:47 | 0:57:53 | |
Because the wars currently being fought are broadcast simultaneously | 0:57:53 | 0:57:56 | |
across all the media, I don't think that makes the fictionalised war drama impossible. | 0:57:56 | 0:58:04 | |
Actually, it's given it a whole new vernacular in which to work, | 0:58:04 | 0:58:08 | |
a whole new set of images. | 0:58:08 | 0:58:10 | |
Drama finds it very hard not to have an opinion. | 0:58:10 | 0:58:13 | |
The Monocled Mutineer, Tumbledown, whichever film you want to name, it has an opinion. | 0:58:13 | 0:58:19 | |
Any idea that just because you've got helmet cameras, | 0:58:19 | 0:58:22 | |
you're seeing the full reality of war - no way. | 0:58:22 | 0:58:26 | |
There's always going to be other dimensions for the filmmaker | 0:58:26 | 0:58:29 | |
and the dramatist to explore in fiction. | 0:58:29 | 0:58:31 | |
Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd | 0:58:46 | 0:58:49 | |
E-mail [email protected] | 0:58:49 | 0:58:53 |