Browse content similar to Part Two - War and Peace. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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This programme contains some strong language. | 0:00:02 | 0:00:11 | |
SHE SCREAMS | 0:00:20 | 0:00:23 | |
Oh, my knee. You bashed it. | 0:00:23 | 0:00:25 | |
Reference plan for studio workshops at the NT. | 0:00:28 | 0:00:32 | |
'I find it very irksome | 0:00:35 | 0:00:37 | |
'if I have to attend to the ordinary things in life | 0:00:37 | 0:00:42 | |
'because truthfully, | 0:00:42 | 0:00:43 | |
'from about seven or eight on, I have been | 0:00:43 | 0:00:45 | |
'allowed to follow my own bent my own obsessions. | 0:00:45 | 0:00:49 | |
'Although my mother would say, "Do help with the washing up." | 0:00:49 | 0:00:53 | |
'If it was at the expense of something I was reading, | 0:00:53 | 0:00:56 | |
'I was allowed not to help with the washing up. | 0:00:56 | 0:00:59 | |
'And that is a pattern that, I must confess, | 0:00:59 | 0:01:01 | |
'has gone right through my life ' | 0:01:01 | 0:01:03 | |
LAURENCE OLIVIER: Fare thee well at once: | 0:01:25 | 0:01:27 | |
The glow-worm shows the matin to be near, | 0:01:27 | 0:01:31 | |
And 'gins to pale his uneffectual fire. | 0:01:31 | 0:01:35 | |
Adieu, | 0:01:35 | 0:01:37 | |
adieu... | 0:01:37 | 0:01:39 | |
..adieu... | 0:01:41 | 0:01:42 | |
..remember me... | 0:01:44 | 0:01:46 | |
'Forming a company, helping it along. Serving it,' | 0:01:51 | 0:01:55 | |
leading it, if you like. Not necessarily so. | 0:01:55 | 0:01:58 | |
That's the most exciting thing I think a man can do. | 0:01:58 | 0:02:01 | |
Laurence Olivier, the greatest actor of his time | 0:02:04 | 0:02:07 | |
stepped down as the director of the National Theatre in 1973 | 0:02:07 | 0:02:12 | |
In just ten years he had created a hugely successful | 0:02:12 | 0:02:16 | |
company from its temporary home at the Old Vic. | 0:02:16 | 0:02:19 | |
TOM STOPPARD: The National Theatre, in the last decade or so, | 0:02:21 | 0:02:26 | |
has had a terrific run. | 0:02:26 | 0:02:28 | |
One felt that it was the centre of gravity for London theatre. | 0:02:28 | 0:02:32 | |
But that didn't come from nowhere. | 0:02:32 | 0:02:35 | |
These energy waves have to come in from birth. | 0:02:35 | 0:02:40 | |
And sometimes they subside and then they amplify again. | 0:02:40 | 0:02:44 | |
But I think that there's a continuity to the theatre which | 0:02:44 | 0:02:51 | |
was created... | 0:02:51 | 0:02:53 | |
in that famous hut. | 0:02:53 | 0:02:56 | |
FANFARE PLAYS | 0:02:56 | 0:02:57 | |
TREVOR NUNN: In my early days running the RSC, | 0:03:01 | 0:03:06 | |
I was asked to have meetings, | 0:03:06 | 0:03:09 | |
scheduling meetings with Laurence Olivier. | 0:03:09 | 0:03:13 | |
On one occasion it was during a three-day week - | 0:03:13 | 0:03:18 | |
power cuts - and therefore I arrived at the Nissen hut | 0:03:18 | 0:03:22 | |
and it was lit just with oil lamps. | 0:03:22 | 0:03:25 | |
And I went in, and there he was sitting in a corner of the room | 0:03:25 | 0:03:28 | |
and I said, "This feels like wartime." | 0:03:28 | 0:03:31 | |
And he looked up and he said, "Theatre is a fucking war, baby " | 0:03:31 | 0:03:36 | |
Laurence Olivier was succeeded as director by the dynamic | 0:03:47 | 0:03:51 | |
and publicity-conscious impresario Peter Hall, | 0:03:51 | 0:03:55 | |
who led the National from 1973 to 1988. | 0:03:55 | 0:03:59 | |
Since then, there have been just three other directors. | 0:04:01 | 0:04:05 | |
Richard Eyre, who championed work by new writers in the 1990s. | 0:04:05 | 0:04:09 | |
Trevor Nunn, who widened the audience by staging lavish musicals | 0:04:09 | 0:04:14 | |
and popular plays. | 0:04:14 | 0:04:15 | |
And Nicholas Hytner, | 0:04:15 | 0:04:17 | |
who has taken the National to new heights of success | 0:04:17 | 0:04:21 | |
with shows like War Horse and One Man, Two Guvnors. | 0:04:21 | 0:04:24 | |
RICHARD EYRE: It's wonderful to sit in the director's office | 0:04:28 | 0:04:31 | |
and be able to look down river to the Houses of Parliament, | 0:04:31 | 0:04:35 | |
to look across to Somerset House | 0:04:35 | 0:04:37 | |
and also poke your head around the corner and see St Paul's. | 0:04:37 | 0:04:42 | |
It's impossible, I think, to be in that office and not feel that | 0:04:42 | 0:04:49 | |
you have a responsibility to reflect the feeling of the nation. | 0:04:49 | 0:04:54 | |
And that's the job. That's what the theatre exists to do. | 0:04:54 | 0:05:00 | |
Stepping into the shoes of | 0:05:03 | 0:05:05 | |
Laurence Olivier was a difficult prospect. | 0:05:05 | 0:05:07 | |
And Peter Hall had to prove that he was capable of leading | 0:05:07 | 0:05:11 | |
the National into a new era. | 0:05:11 | 0:05:13 | |
I've got to do it now. | 0:05:13 | 0:05:15 | |
Good luck. | 0:05:15 | 0:05:16 | |
NICHOLAS HYTNER: Peter is the single most | 0:05:18 | 0:05:20 | |
influential figure in the British subsidised theatre. | 0:05:20 | 0:05:24 | |
He founded the RSC. | 0:05:24 | 0:05:26 | |
And he brought | 0:05:26 | 0:05:30 | |
a new way of looking at those texts that is still | 0:05:30 | 0:05:35 | |
the blueprint. | 0:05:35 | 0:05:37 | |
But more than that, he bullied the establishment into a settlement | 0:05:37 | 0:05:45 | |
with the subsidised theatre which has been the bedrock ever since | 0:05:45 | 0:05:49 | |
He's a very, very strong man. | 0:05:49 | 0:05:52 | |
And if I...could claim any responsibility for putting | 0:05:52 | 0:05:57 | |
the theatre up... | 0:05:57 | 0:05:58 | |
..he can claim for getting people into it. | 0:06:00 | 0:06:03 | |
The theatre consists of three intimate theatres. | 0:06:05 | 0:06:08 | |
That one is the Olivier, the highest, which is the open stage. | 0:06:08 | 0:06:13 | |
That one, which is the Lyttelton, which is the proscenium theatre | 0:06:13 | 0:06:18 | |
And then round the corner is the Cottesloe Theatre, which is | 0:06:18 | 0:06:23 | |
the small, intimate theatre. | 0:06:23 | 0:06:25 | |
But architect Denys Lasdun's new building | 0:06:27 | 0:06:29 | |
stubbornly refused to be finished, | 0:06:29 | 0:06:32 | |
and Peter Hall was forced to cancel several of his first productions. | 0:06:32 | 0:06:35 | |
Who's within there? | 0:06:37 | 0:06:38 | |
Bajaseth been fed today? Aye, my lord. | 0:06:40 | 0:06:46 | |
Bring him forth. And let us know if the town be ransacked. | 0:06:46 | 0:06:51 | |
The builders really gave us | 0:06:53 | 0:06:55 | |
a run around because the building was constantly not finished. | 0:06:55 | 0:06:58 | |
So we went on rehearsing plays that couldn't come and open. | 0:06:58 | 0:07:02 | |
'As we speak, it's still impossible to hang a light or even | 0:07:04 | 0:07:07 | |
'a piece of black masking' | 0:07:07 | 0:07:09 | |
so we're not sure we're going to open on September 1st. | 0:07:09 | 0:07:13 | |
MUSIC: "Age of Aquarius" 5th Dimension | 0:07:13 | 0:07:15 | |
# Aquarius. # | 0:07:18 | 0:07:20 | |
Good evening and welcome to a new series of Aquarius. | 0:07:22 | 0:07:26 | |
Soon after he was made director Peter Hall also became the face of | 0:07:28 | 0:07:33 | |
the fashionable art series Aquarius at London Weekend Television. | 0:07:33 | 0:07:37 | |
He ignored any objections that this would distract him | 0:07:38 | 0:07:41 | |
from the task of running the National Theatre. | 0:07:41 | 0:07:43 | |
Hall used one of his budgets to make a film about the classical | 0:07:45 | 0:07:49 | |
Greek amphitheatre at Epidaurus | 0:07:49 | 0:07:51 | |
And he took along the architect of the National Theatre, Denys Lasdun. | 0:07:51 | 0:07:55 | |
It looks very simple. | 0:07:57 | 0:07:59 | |
Well, it is outwardly very simple | 0:07:59 | 0:08:02 | |
but underlying that simplicity is a very, very subtle, skilful geometry, | 0:08:02 | 0:08:08 | |
which is worked out in great detail by a superb architect called | 0:08:08 | 0:08:13 | |
Polykleitos. | 0:08:13 | 0:08:14 | |
Epidaurus had been the model for the new Olivier Theatre. | 0:08:16 | 0:08:20 | |
And their aim | 0:08:20 | 0:08:21 | |
was nothing less than to create a kind of | 0:08:21 | 0:08:23 | |
new Athens on the South Bank of the Thames. | 0:08:23 | 0:08:26 | |
JONATHAN MILLER: That sort of pretentious ambition | 0:08:29 | 0:08:32 | |
is vulgar in the sense that it's got | 0:08:32 | 0:08:34 | |
nothing whatever to do with the nature of theatrical art. | 0:08:34 | 0:08:37 | |
Once you're in | 0:08:37 | 0:08:39 | |
a large, impressive place, for one thing it's too big, | 0:08:39 | 0:08:42 | |
you're not close to | 0:08:42 | 0:08:43 | |
what goes on | 0:08:43 | 0:08:45 | |
and you're endlessly looking at the building. | 0:08:45 | 0:08:48 | |
I think Peter Hall talked about "centres of excellence". | 0:08:49 | 0:08:53 | |
I think once you start thinking of somewhere as a centre of excellence | 0:08:53 | 0:08:56 | |
you're really revelling in your own importance. | 0:08:56 | 0:09:00 | |
MUSIC: "Le Nozze Di Figaro" Mozart | 0:09:00 | 0:09:02 | |
Peter Hall's lifestyle | 0:09:03 | 0:09:05 | |
and gift for self promotion didn't go down well with his critics. | 0:09:05 | 0:09:10 | |
He divided his time between a stylish modern house in Oxfordshire | 0:09:10 | 0:09:14 | |
and a penthouse apartment in the fashionable new Barbican | 0:09:14 | 0:09:18 | |
development in the City, | 0:09:18 | 0:09:20 | |
from which he could survey his new domain at the National | 0:09:20 | 0:09:24 | |
FILM VOICE`OVER: 'The riverside of London has been embellished by | 0:09:29 | 0:09:32 | |
'the National Theatre or else it's been blighted. | 0:09:32 | 0:09:36 | |
'The new, ?16 million concrete palace of the arts is nothing | 0:09:36 | 0:09:39 | |
'if not controversial. | 0:09:39 | 0:09:40 | |
'It's taken seven years in the building and only now, | 0:09:40 | 0:09:44 | |
'after eight postponed opening nights, has it been possible to open | 0:09:44 | 0:09:47 | |
'the principal auditorium in the complex.' | 0:09:47 | 0:09:50 | |
FANFARE PLAYS | 0:09:50 | 0:09:52 | |
I have much pleasure in declaring | 0:09:58 | 0:10:01 | |
the National Theatre open. | 0:10:01 | 0:10:03 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:10:04 | 0:10:06 | |
Laurence Olivier had hoped to lead | 0:10:09 | 0:10:11 | |
the National into Denys Lasdun's new building. | 0:10:11 | 0:10:14 | |
But he had retired by the time it finally opened. | 0:10:14 | 0:10:17 | |
This was the first and last time he set foot | 0:10:20 | 0:10:22 | |
on the stage of the theatre that is named after him. | 0:10:22 | 0:10:25 | |
It is an outsized pearl of British understatement to say that | 0:10:30 | 0:10:37 | |
I am happy to welcome you...at this moment...in this place. | 0:10:37 | 0:10:44 | |
MICHAEL BLAKEMORE: It was almost hilariously uncomfortable - | 0:10:46 | 0:10:49 | |
the event. | 0:10:49 | 0:10:51 | |
Larry was asked to make a speech. | 0:10:51 | 0:10:53 | |
And very typically he came along to the theatre before the cleaners | 0:10:53 | 0:10:56 | |
were in, about two mornings in succession, | 0:10:56 | 0:10:59 | |
and rehearsed his speech. | 0:10:59 | 0:11:01 | |
He did not have a gift for writing speeches. | 0:11:01 | 0:11:04 | |
Particularly in the presence of royalty. | 0:11:04 | 0:11:06 | |
They were incredibly over-written and flowery. | 0:11:06 | 0:11:10 | |
And frequently very obsequious | 0:11:10 | 0:11:12 | |
I thank... | 0:11:13 | 0:11:15 | |
all those colleagues... | 0:11:15 | 0:11:17 | |
from every branch of the theatrical profession... | 0:11:17 | 0:11:20 | |
..who have leant their rich talents | 0:11:22 | 0:11:25 | |
and their selfless devotion to the creation of a standard of work | 0:11:25 | 0:11:30 | |
which could... | 0:11:30 | 0:11:32 | |
justify the provision of these. . | 0:11:32 | 0:11:36 | |
temples to their art. | 0:11:36 | 0:11:39 | |
After much discussion about what the royal party might see, | 0:11:41 | 0:11:45 | |
the National chose an obscure Venetian farce. | 0:11:45 | 0:11:47 | |
There was a performance of Il Campiello. | 0:11:49 | 0:11:52 | |
Not a very good Italian play. | 0:11:52 | 0:11:54 | |
It really was a dud. | 0:11:54 | 0:11:57 | |
Nobody's fault, it was just a dud. | 0:11:57 | 0:11:59 | |
TROMBONE PLAYS | 0:11:59 | 0:12:01 | |
What a beautiful day. | 0:12:02 | 0:12:04 | |
I'd like to get out but my horrible old uncle won't come with me. | 0:12:04 | 0:12:09 | |
BILL BRYDEN: It was not my proudest moment. | 0:12:09 | 0:12:13 | |
We had a wonderful time rehearsing it and it was a lovely little gem | 0:12:13 | 0:12:18 | |
but to give it all that weight | 0:12:18 | 0:12:22 | |
There was like a hostility in the audience. | 0:12:22 | 0:12:26 | |
People didn't look at the stage they looked at the Queen to see | 0:12:26 | 0:12:29 | |
if she was enjoying it. | 0:12:29 | 0:12:30 | |
The fact that this building is now here | 0:12:33 | 0:12:36 | |
and has been dreamt of and longed of for 150 years is a guarantee | 0:12:36 | 0:12:41 | |
that in the future...the British people will always take | 0:12:41 | 0:12:45 | |
the theatre seriously because this building is here. | 0:12:45 | 0:12:49 | |
We're going to have a look at the production box for Jumpers | 0:12:52 | 0:12:55 | |
by Tom Stoppard. | 0:12:55 | 0:12:56 | |
Which played on the occasion of the Royal Opening | 0:12:56 | 0:12:59 | |
in the Lyttelton Theatre. | 0:12:59 | 0:13:02 | |
TOM STOPPARD: Jumpers was performed the night that | 0:13:02 | 0:13:06 | |
the Queen opened the new National Theatre. | 0:13:06 | 0:13:09 | |
Jumpers was in the Lyttelton House attended by Princess Margaret | 0:13:09 | 0:13:15 | |
and the Queen was in the Olivier watching the Goldoni. | 0:13:15 | 0:13:18 | |
Jumpers begins with eight acrobats and a lady who sings | 0:13:24 | 0:13:29 | |
and a lady on the trapeze. It was a meat and two veg play | 0:13:29 | 0:13:33 | |
It wasn't, as it were, sardines on toast. There was a lot going on. | 0:13:33 | 0:13:37 | |
She actually was slightly displeased by the architecture | 0:13:39 | 0:13:43 | |
of the building because the balustrade was slightly too high | 0:13:43 | 0:13:47 | |
in the front row of the dress circle. | 0:13:47 | 0:13:50 | |
Too high for comfort. | 0:13:50 | 0:13:52 | |
Ordinary people, or the audience, were expecting a theatre. | 0:13:55 | 0:13:59 | |
The red plush front curtain and, of course, | 0:13:59 | 0:14:03 | |
what they got was a place that looked like a car park. | 0:14:03 | 0:14:07 | |
I mean, that's what it looked like. So it had a pretty rocky ride. | 0:14:07 | 0:14:11 | |
With its three separate stages the Olivier, the Lyttelton | 0:14:15 | 0:14:19 | |
and the Cottesloe, and a staff of over 700 from the workshops | 0:14:19 | 0:14:24 | |
the stage crews and the administration, | 0:14:24 | 0:14:26 | |
the new National Theatre was a massive undertaking | 0:14:26 | 0:14:30 | |
unrivalled by anything in Europe or America. | 0:14:30 | 0:14:32 | |
PETER HALL: When you think that this theatre, as a building, | 0:14:35 | 0:14:38 | |
probably the most extraordinary thing that's happened since the war. | 0:14:38 | 0:14:42 | |
And are we pleased? Not particularly. Are we proud? Not particularly | 0:14:43 | 0:14:47 | |
Do we think we should have it? | 0:14:47 | 0:14:49 | |
Not really. We'd be better to use the money for other purposes. | 0:14:49 | 0:14:53 | |
I ought to warn you that I was particularly fond of Arabella. | 0:14:54 | 0:14:59 | |
Her father was my tutor. I used to stay at their house. | 0:14:59 | 0:15:02 | |
I knew her father well, he took a great interest in me | 0:15:02 | 0:15:05 | |
Arabella Hinscot was a girl of the most refined | 0:15:05 | 0:15:07 | |
and organised sensibilities. | 0:15:07 | 0:15:11 | |
I agree. | 0:15:11 | 0:15:12 | |
Are you trying to tell me you had an affair with Arabella | 0:15:12 | 0:15:17 | |
A form of an affair. She had no wish for full consummation. | 0:15:17 | 0:15:21 | |
She was content with her particular predilection, | 0:15:21 | 0:15:24 | |
consuming the male member. | 0:15:24 | 0:15:25 | |
At this moment, you are on the stage nightly in a Pinter play | 0:15:28 | 0:15:32 | |
called No Man's Land. Yes. | 0:15:32 | 0:15:34 | |
Having watched it and been shuttered... | 0:15:34 | 0:15:37 | |
At the National Theatre. | 0:15:37 | 0:15:39 | |
At the National... | 0:15:39 | 0:15:40 | |
This is very important. One of the reasons that I'm here | 0:15:40 | 0:15:43 | |
is because they were very keen for me to do this programme | 0:15:43 | 0:15:46 | |
because they said I could advertise the National Theatre. | 0:15:46 | 0:15:49 | |
I'm a member of the crew, the team of the National Theatre | 0:15:49 | 0:15:53 | |
and, of course, you're not supposed to advertise these things | 0:15:53 | 0:15:56 | |
but since we're all shareholders in the National Theatre, | 0:15:56 | 0:15:59 | |
the more I advertise it the cheaper it will be for you all. | 0:15:59 | 0:16:03 | |
So every now and again, if you don't mind, I'm going to try to take | 0:16:03 | 0:16:07 | |
the opportunity to mention the National Theatre. | 0:16:07 | 0:16:11 | |
MUSIC: "God Save The Queen" The Sex Pistols | 0:16:11 | 0:16:14 | |
Within months of opening, the new building ran into trouble. | 0:16:14 | 0:16:17 | |
The stage crews refused to consider new manning levels. | 0:16:17 | 0:16:21 | |
And when a plumber installing two washbasins | 0:16:21 | 0:16:24 | |
was sacked for incompetence, they called a strike which threatened to | 0:16:24 | 0:16:28 | |
shut down the entire theatre. | 0:16:28 | 0:16:29 | |
# God save the Queen | 0:16:29 | 0:16:31 | |
# The fascist regime. # | 0:16:33 | 0:16:35 | |
All the time the management have been very, | 0:16:35 | 0:16:37 | |
very stubborn in their approach to negotiations. | 0:16:37 | 0:16:39 | |
They would never give any ground. | 0:16:39 | 0:16:42 | |
And threatened that if we did strike like this, it would | 0:16:42 | 0:16:44 | |
mean the closure of the building. | 0:16:44 | 0:16:46 | |
The strikes at the National coincided with a nationwide | 0:16:48 | 0:16:51 | |
wave of industrial action, | 0:16:51 | 0:16:53 | |
which eventually brought down the Labour Government. | 0:16:53 | 0:16:56 | |
We had a really terrible time with the unions, I mean awful. | 0:16:59 | 0:17:03 | |
Their refusal to help Michael Redgrave, who was half-dead, | 0:17:04 | 0:17:08 | |
down the side of the building from the taxi to the stage door | 0:17:08 | 0:17:15 | |
I mean, that nearly killed Michael Redgrave, quite seriously. | 0:17:15 | 0:17:18 | |
And it was regarded as OK in some quarters | 0:17:18 | 0:17:22 | |
and I don't like those quarters | 0:17:22 | 0:17:23 | |
Among Peter Hall's most important | 0:17:26 | 0:17:28 | |
and committed allies was Britain's leading playwright, Harold Pinter. | 0:17:28 | 0:17:32 | |
HAROLD PINTER: It's one of the things I admire about him very much, | 0:17:32 | 0:17:36 | |
he sticks to his guns. | 0:17:36 | 0:17:38 | |
And he was certainly sticking to them in that period. | 0:17:38 | 0:17:41 | |
He wouldn't allow anything to get him | 0:17:41 | 0:17:43 | |
down and there was a hell of a lot to get him down. | 0:17:43 | 0:17:45 | |
We had a number of strikes during that time. | 0:17:45 | 0:17:47 | |
And he overcame these strikes. | 0:17:47 | 0:17:49 | |
But you had to be very, very tough and have a hell of a lot of fibre. | 0:17:49 | 0:17:54 | |
Going to have a look at Betrayal by Harold Pinter. | 0:17:54 | 0:17:57 | |
Directed by Peter Hall. | 0:17:57 | 0:17:59 | |
He's had other women. | 0:18:01 | 0:18:03 | |
For years. | 0:18:03 | 0:18:05 | |
No! | 0:18:05 | 0:18:06 | |
Good lord. | 0:18:07 | 0:18:09 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:18:09 | 0:18:11 | |
We betrayed him for years. | 0:18:13 | 0:18:14 | |
'And he betrayed me for years. | 0:18:16 | 0:18:17 | |
'Well, I never knew that. | 0:18:19 | 0:18:20 | |
'Nor did I.' | 0:18:21 | 0:18:23 | |
PHOTOGRAPHERS: This way, please | 0:18:23 | 0:18:25 | |
MICHAEL GAMBON: On the first night it was cancelled. | 0:18:25 | 0:18:29 | |
And we went there. Antonia and Harold and the actors, | 0:18:29 | 0:18:33 | |
we went around to a cafe | 0:18:33 | 0:18:35 | |
and we were all talking | 0:18:35 | 0:18:36 | |
and I started sympathising with the crew. | 0:18:36 | 0:18:39 | |
How I felt maybe they had a point. He said, "You bastard." | 0:18:39 | 0:18:44 | |
This is the set on the Olivier stage for the play Strife. | 0:18:46 | 0:18:52 | |
I'm very sad, very worried. | 0:18:54 | 0:18:57 | |
Because this theatre is not breathing, it's not playing. | 0:18:59 | 0:19:02 | |
It's not alive tonight. We're going to close. | 0:19:04 | 0:19:06 | |
It's a very dangerous thing to happen. | 0:19:08 | 0:19:10 | |
Because in this new, young theatre... | 0:19:11 | 0:19:14 | |
..poor thing could die if it went on like this. | 0:19:15 | 0:19:18 | |
CHRISTOPHER MORAHAN: I was doing a production of a play | 0:19:20 | 0:19:23 | |
called Strife at that particular time. | 0:19:23 | 0:19:25 | |
By Galsworthy which was about an industrial dispute in South Wales. | 0:19:25 | 0:19:30 | |
GAVIN CLARKE: The play is set in 1909 in a Welsh village in a tin mine. | 0:19:32 | 0:19:37 | |
And it preaches a humane approach to industrial relations | 0:19:37 | 0:19:41 | |
based on compromise. | 0:19:41 | 0:19:42 | |
Most of us had a belief in trades unionism | 0:19:44 | 0:19:47 | |
and I belonged to trades unions for many years. | 0:19:47 | 0:19:50 | |
And we became a besieged building. | 0:19:50 | 0:19:52 | |
And we had to go through picket lines everyday which was | 0:19:52 | 0:19:56 | |
heart-breaking, really. | 0:19:56 | 0:19:57 | |
PETER HALL: One group was bent on making the revolution, | 0:19:59 | 0:20:03 | |
in the purest Trotskyite terms | 0:20:03 | 0:20:04 | |
And another group bent on earning as much money as possible | 0:20:04 | 0:20:08 | |
while no-one was looking. | 0:20:08 | 0:20:10 | |
And of course, it was a new building, new rates of pay, guvnor! | 0:20:10 | 0:20:15 | |
And I had to therefore learn about industrial | 0:20:15 | 0:20:19 | |
relations on a sort of crash course. | 0:20:19 | 0:20:21 | |
And I suppose on my tombstone will be, | 0:20:23 | 0:20:26 | |
"He sacked 65 men from the National Theatre and survived. | 0:20:26 | 0:20:30 | |
I'm not proud of that and I hate the fact that it was so. | 0:20:30 | 0:20:35 | |
EXPLOSION AND CHEERS | 0:20:35 | 0:20:38 | |
Despite the strikes, | 0:20:42 | 0:20:44 | |
the National had continued to put on highly successful productions | 0:20:44 | 0:20:48 | |
of everything from modern plays to Shakespeare and the classics | 0:20:48 | 0:20:52 | |
But even after the dispute was finally resolved in 1979, | 0:20:56 | 0:20:59 | |
Peter Hall found himself constantly under attack by a hostile press | 0:20:59 | 0:21:05 | |
which hated the building, | 0:21:05 | 0:21:07 | |
and much of the British theatre who thought that the National | 0:21:07 | 0:21:09 | |
was gobbling up too many scarce resources. | 0:21:09 | 0:21:13 | |
DAVID HARE: The problem Peter was having | 0:21:14 | 0:21:16 | |
was that he was genuinely embattled, he was dealing with | 0:21:16 | 0:21:20 | |
a hostile press, he was dealing with a hostile government, | 0:21:20 | 0:21:24 | |
he was dealing with massive building problems, he was dealing with | 0:21:24 | 0:21:28 | |
certain flaws in the design of the building itself, | 0:21:28 | 0:21:32 | |
which were integral and really major. | 0:21:32 | 0:21:35 | |
Every day was a fight and a struggle. | 0:21:35 | 0:21:38 | |
'..which you see on our right. | 0:21:44 | 0:21:47 | |
This is the new National Theatre. | 0:21:47 | 0:21:49 | |
'The building will shortly be voted one of the ugliest looking | 0:21:49 | 0:21:53 | |
'buildings in London, known on the river as the "concrete monstrosity".' | 0:21:53 | 0:21:58 | |
There's a moment that Peter himself describes in his diaries | 0:21:58 | 0:22:01 | |
was that he went out from an embattled day on to the open | 0:22:01 | 0:22:06 | |
deck of the theatre and a tourist boat went by and he could hear | 0:22:06 | 0:22:10 | |
the man on the microphone say, "That is the new National Theatre. | 0:22:10 | 0:22:15 | |
"It's run by a pig called Peter Hall." | 0:22:15 | 0:22:19 | |
And he said, at that moment, he did think, | 0:22:19 | 0:22:21 | |
"Maybe the price I'm paying for this is a little too high. | 0:22:21 | 0:22:25 | |
Dimly the music sounded from the salon above. | 0:22:28 | 0:22:31 | |
Dimly the stars shone on the empty street. | 0:22:31 | 0:22:35 | |
I was suddenly frightened. | 0:22:36 | 0:22:39 | |
It seemed to me that... I had heard a voice of God | 0:22:39 | 0:22:44 | |
and that it issued from a creature whose voice I had also heard. | 0:22:44 | 0:22:48 | |
And it was the voice of an obscene child. | 0:22:50 | 0:22:54 | |
'Mrs Thatcher comes out, dressed in the most brilliant blue.' | 0:22:54 | 0:22:58 | |
We're just reserving judgment. Are you still cautiously optimistic? | 0:22:58 | 0:23:01 | |
Yes, yes. You are cautiously optimistic? Yes. | 0:23:01 | 0:23:05 | |
When you look at the material for Amadeus, Peter Shaffer's play, | 0:23:05 | 0:23:10 | |
it's directed by Peter Hall, | 0:23:10 | 0:23:13 | |
and starred Paul Scofield, as Salieri, | 0:23:13 | 0:23:16 | |
and Simon Callow as the young Mozart. | 0:23:16 | 0:23:19 | |
'I'm going to pounce-wounce. I'm going to scrunch-munch, I'm going | 0:23:23 | 0:23:26 | |
'to chew-poo, my little mouse-wouse. | 0:23:26 | 0:23:28 | |
'I'm got to tear her to pieces | 0:23:28 | 0:23:30 | |
'with my paws-claws. No! | 0:23:30 | 0:23:31 | |
'Paws-claws, paws-claws. Paws-claws! Argh!' | 0:23:31 | 0:23:35 | |
Peter Shaffer's Mozart is a genius whose prodigous creativity | 0:23:40 | 0:23:44 | |
is combined with a childish and often obscene personality. | 0:23:44 | 0:23:48 | |
His arch rival, the court composer Salieri, played by Paul Scofield, | 0:23:48 | 0:23:53 | |
is so offended by his vulgarity | 0:23:53 | 0:23:55 | |
and so consumed by jealousy that he sets out to destroy him | 0:23:55 | 0:24:00 | |
PETER SHAFFER: Mozart wrote with such ease, | 0:24:00 | 0:24:03 | |
as if he were transcribing something. | 0:24:03 | 0:24:07 | |
Hearing it all in his head. | 0:24:07 | 0:24:10 | |
And usually, | 0:24:10 | 0:24:11 | |
drinking wine and talking to his wife at the same time. | 0:24:11 | 0:24:17 | |
That is an amazing instance of divine inspiration | 0:24:17 | 0:24:25 | |
I begin as I shall end, with Mozart. | 0:24:26 | 0:24:29 | |
Mozart, as a passion, goes pack to my childhood | 0:24:29 | 0:24:33 | |
and it was there that I first met Figaro. | 0:24:33 | 0:24:36 | |
Figaro is an abiding passion. | 0:24:36 | 0:24:39 | |
I did it very happily recently at Glyndebourne. | 0:24:39 | 0:24:43 | |
Of course, Mozart had an extraordinary sense of drama | 0:24:46 | 0:24:50 | |
I think he's the greatest dramatist, apart from Shakespeare. | 0:24:50 | 0:24:53 | |
Mozart, his sense of timing and his sense of contrast is amazing. | 0:24:53 | 0:24:58 | |
Peter Hall directed numerous productions | 0:25:00 | 0:25:03 | |
at Glyndebourne Opera, where he later became the artistic director. | 0:25:03 | 0:25:07 | |
He spent large amounts of time in its comfortable rural | 0:25:07 | 0:25:11 | |
upper-class world, far from the trouble and strife | 0:25:11 | 0:25:15 | |
of running the National Theatre | 0:25:15 | 0:25:17 | |
Margaret Thatcher never went to the theatre, but she did for this. | 0:25:19 | 0:25:25 | |
And she sat there looking as grim as stone and, at the end, she said, | 0:25:25 | 0:25:32 | |
"This is disgraceful. | 0:25:32 | 0:25:35 | |
"It's not worthy of the National. It's dreadful, | 0:25:35 | 0:25:40 | |
"vulgar and I'm sure that the writer of that wonderful music was not | 0:25:40 | 0:25:47 | |
"a bit like this." | 0:25:47 | 0:25:50 | |
Peter said, "There are many letters | 0:25:50 | 0:25:54 | |
"which prove, in fact, that he was as vulgar as this. | 0:25:54 | 0:26:01 | |
And she turned and said, | 0:26:01 | 0:26:04 | |
"I thought I said that he was not a bit like that!" | 0:26:04 | 0:26:11 | |
RECORDING OF PLAY: 'Kill the leader first. | 0:26:13 | 0:26:15 | |
'Can you tell which one's the leader? Stop! | 0:26:15 | 0:26:16 | |
'What weapons have we got? My knife. Where? | 0:26:16 | 0:26:19 | |
'You had it to cut the Irishman's throat. Yes. | 0:26:19 | 0:26:21 | |
'One knife, under my clothes. Don't look at it. | 0:26:21 | 0:26:24 | |
'Stand up.' | 0:26:24 | 0:26:26 | |
It's a play about invasion and about | 0:26:30 | 0:26:34 | |
culture shock, when one superiorly equipped and more powerful nation | 0:26:34 | 0:26:41 | |
invades a small one and doesn't see what it's doing | 0:26:41 | 0:26:44 | |
doesn't see that it's walking through people and over people's lives | 0:26:44 | 0:26:50 | |
Howard Brenton's The Romans In Britain drew a parallel between | 0:26:50 | 0:26:54 | |
the Roman occupation of Celtic Britain | 0:26:54 | 0:26:56 | |
and the British presence in Northern Ireland. | 0:26:56 | 0:26:59 | |
'Your blood will run down my throat and I will drink you, | 0:27:00 | 0:27:03 | |
'get pissed on you, vomit on you, drink more of you! | 0:27:03 | 0:27:05 | |
'You'll be blood in my bowel! You will feed me | 0:27:05 | 0:27:09 | |
'my hate.' | 0:27:09 | 0:27:10 | |
In the second act, there are scenes in Northern Ireland | 0:27:10 | 0:27:14 | |
because I was trying to write about imperialism. | 0:27:14 | 0:27:17 | |
There was also a brutal scene in the first act, | 0:27:17 | 0:27:20 | |
which caused all that trouble really. | 0:27:20 | 0:27:23 | |
Roman soldiers are out of hand | 0:27:23 | 0:27:25 | |
and they attempt to rape a young Celt warrior | 0:27:25 | 0:27:30 | |
and then kill him and his companions. | 0:27:30 | 0:27:34 | |
'The National Theatre, say the critics of this play, | 0:27:35 | 0:27:39 | |
'is not just another theatre, but the National Theatre. | 0:27:39 | 0:27:42 | |
'As such, say the critics, it should have known better. | 0:27:42 | 0:27:45 | |
'It's called The Romans In Britain. | 0:27:45 | 0:27:47 | |
'On stage, it shows homosexuality, naked men and male rape.' | 0:27:47 | 0:27:50 | |
If the Sexual Offences Act is there, | 0:27:52 | 0:27:55 | |
why in heaven's name should people involved in the theatre | 0:27:55 | 0:27:59 | |
be in some way immune from it? | 0:27:59 | 0:28:01 | |
Shortly after the play opened, Mrs Mary Whitehouse, | 0:28:03 | 0:28:06 | |
the self-appointed guardian of the nation's moral wellbeing, brought | 0:28:06 | 0:28:10 | |
a private prosecution against the National for gross indecency. | 0:28:10 | 0:28:15 | |
The case at the Old Bailey against the National Theatre production | 0:28:15 | 0:28:18 | |
of The Romans In Britain has ended with each side claiming victory | 0:28:18 | 0:28:22 | |
Mrs Mary Whitehouse, who brought the prosecution privately, | 0:28:22 | 0:28:26 | |
agreed that her counsel shouldn't proceed with it | 0:28:26 | 0:28:29 | |
and the defence case wasn't heard. | 0:28:29 | 0:28:32 | |
It was clearly established in court today, | 0:28:32 | 0:28:35 | |
what happens on the stage can now come under the law. | 0:28:35 | 0:28:40 | |
I can only say that Mrs Whitehouse and I have different legal advisors. | 0:28:40 | 0:28:44 | |
It isn't a case of you differing me in opinion. | 0:28:44 | 0:28:46 | |
I am telling you what the fact of the matter there is | 0:28:46 | 0:28:48 | |
And before we go off, I want to say something else. | 0:28:48 | 0:28:52 | |
This is the National Theatre. | 0:28:52 | 0:28:54 | |
It is your theatre, it is my theatre, it is all our theatre. | 0:28:54 | 0:28:58 | |
And what he's said | 0:28:58 | 0:29:00 | |
and done at the National Theatre is done in our name. | 0:29:00 | 0:29:03 | |
What happens in the National Theatre is seen all over the world, | 0:29:03 | 0:29:08 | |
as these are Britain's standards, this is what Britain does, | 0:29:08 | 0:29:11 | |
this is what Britain's about. | 0:29:11 | 0:29:13 | |
It was in that context that I initiated it in the first place | 0:29:13 | 0:29:17 | |
because I happen to care about our National Theatre | 0:29:17 | 0:29:21 | |
and I care about our nation. | 0:29:21 | 0:29:23 | |
ARGH! | 0:29:23 | 0:29:25 | |
GROANING AND WAILING CONTINUES | 0:29:25 | 0:29:27 | |
Ooh. Ah. Huh. Hm. | 0:29:27 | 0:29:30 | |
Well, I'll be buggered if I go out there tonight, I can tell you! | 0:29:34 | 0:29:37 | |
'It was his mother, this man dared to kill. There are two parties present. | 0:29:41 | 0:29:46 | |
'I must hear them both.' | 0:29:46 | 0:29:48 | |
He won't let us swear ours nor swear his own oath. | 0:29:48 | 0:29:51 | |
It's not justice you want, but the mere outward show. | 0:29:51 | 0:29:56 | |
There is a disturbance factor in the theatre, which is | 0:29:57 | 0:30:00 | |
why it always merits the attention of censors and do-gooders. | 0:30:00 | 0:30:05 | |
What is important to the theatre at this moment, is it will help | 0:30:05 | 0:30:08 | |
the debate of our society with itself. | 0:30:08 | 0:30:11 | |
I mean, that's why the Oresteia is very important to me. | 0:30:11 | 0:30:13 | |
An old Greek play, | 0:30:13 | 0:30:14 | |
but it's about the responsibilities and the nature of democracy. | 0:30:14 | 0:30:18 | |
And is democracy something liberal and boring and flat | 0:30:18 | 0:30:22 | |
and flabby, as the trendy view tends to be on the left at the moment | 0:30:22 | 0:30:25 | |
or is it something in the centre of what human values are about | 0:30:25 | 0:30:29 | |
and why men have fought and died for centuries and centuries? | 0:30:29 | 0:30:32 | |
I believe it is. | 0:30:32 | 0:30:34 | |
# Luck, be a lady tonight | 0:30:34 | 0:30:39 | |
# Luck, if you've ever been a lady to begin with | 0:30:39 | 0:30:43 | |
# Luck, be a lady tonight | 0:30:43 | 0:30:47 | |
# Luck, let a gentleman see | 0:30:47 | 0:30:51 | |
# How nice a dame you can be | 0:30:51 | 0:30:54 | |
# I know the way you've treated other guys you've been with | 0:30:54 | 0:30:57 | |
# Luck, be a lady with me. # | 0:30:57 | 0:31:00 | |
At that time, | 0:31:00 | 0:31:02 | |
the National Theatre didn't do musicals. | 0:31:02 | 0:31:05 | |
It was considered wholly improper. | 0:31:05 | 0:31:07 | |
I think that maybe you should be looking away from, er... | 0:31:07 | 0:31:12 | |
Yes, yes, I should, yes. Yeah. | 0:31:12 | 0:31:15 | |
'When I did Guys and Dolls, I was in my late 30s. | 0:31:15 | 0:31:18 | |
'And... | 0:31:18 | 0:31:20 | |
'I had always been in love with American culture. | 0:31:20 | 0:31:24 | |
'I didn't grow up seeing Shakespeare, | 0:31:24 | 0:31:27 | |
'I didn't grow up steeped in English literature. | 0:31:27 | 0:31:30 | |
'I was absolutely saturated in American culture. | 0:31:30 | 0:31:35 | |
# ..Good old reliable me... # | 0:31:35 | 0:31:40 | |
Guys and Dolls was the first Broadway musical | 0:31:40 | 0:31:42 | |
to be done at the National | 0:31:42 | 0:31:43 | |
and wouldn't have looked out of place in the commercial West End. | 0:31:43 | 0:31:46 | |
It was a huge critical and financial success | 0:31:46 | 0:31:50 | |
and opened up previously-uncharted territory. | 0:31:50 | 0:31:54 | |
Guys and Dolls was an expression of love, | 0:31:56 | 0:32:00 | |
of what I felt for... | 0:32:00 | 0:32:03 | |
..my teenage years, came out in that production. | 0:32:03 | 0:32:07 | |
# And I said to myself, "Sit down | 0:32:09 | 0:32:11 | |
# "Sit down, you're rocking the boat" | 0:32:11 | 0:32:13 | |
# I said to myself, "Sit down | 0:32:13 | 0:32:16 | |
# "Sit down, you're rocking the boat..." # | 0:32:16 | 0:32:18 | |
Britain's victory in the Falklands | 0:32:18 | 0:32:20 | |
consolidated Margaret Thatcher's authority. | 0:32:20 | 0:32:23 | |
And she preceded to pursue her vision of a society | 0:32:23 | 0:32:26 | |
based on free-market policies | 0:32:26 | 0:32:28 | |
and the importance of the individual. | 0:32:28 | 0:32:30 | |
Mustn't think the world owes you a living or owes you happiness | 0:32:30 | 0:32:33 | |
because it doesn't. | 0:32:33 | 0:32:35 | |
That's all in her. Yes. | 0:32:35 | 0:32:37 | |
'I like running things. | 0:32:37 | 0:32:39 | |
'I like creating environments. | 0:32:40 | 0:32:42 | |
'It is a kind of fix for me, to run this place.' | 0:32:42 | 0:32:45 | |
Peter had a very, very heavy schedule. | 0:32:48 | 0:32:51 | |
He would actually take | 0:32:51 | 0:32:53 | |
an early-morning meeting on a Monday morning | 0:32:53 | 0:32:56 | |
and then fly for a week's rehearsal in New York. | 0:32:56 | 0:32:59 | |
He thrived, actually, on the challenge. | 0:32:59 | 0:33:02 | |
MUSIC: "Smooth Operator" Sade | 0:33:02 | 0:33:04 | |
Why does Peter have three secretaries? | 0:33:04 | 0:33:06 | |
He has his own secretary, his National Theatre secretary | 0:33:06 | 0:33:09 | |
he has a private secretary who he employs himself, | 0:33:09 | 0:33:12 | |
who is really a private personal assistant | 0:33:12 | 0:33:14 | |
who looks after his opera work and his non-NT interests. | 0:33:14 | 0:33:20 | |
I think people say he does too much, | 0:33:20 | 0:33:22 | |
but I would say that there's too much to do. | 0:33:22 | 0:33:24 | |
50% of the cost of running the National | 0:33:29 | 0:33:31 | |
was paid for by an Arts Council subsidy. | 0:33:31 | 0:33:35 | |
In the 1980s, Peter Hall was forced to defend | 0:33:35 | 0:33:39 | |
what some saw as lavish public funding | 0:33:39 | 0:33:41 | |
in the face of a Conservative Government | 0:33:41 | 0:33:43 | |
which was ideologically opposed to subsidised theatre | 0:33:43 | 0:33:47 | |
and determined to cut its arts budget. | 0:33:47 | 0:33:50 | |
It cost ?17 million, I think, to build these theatres | 0:33:52 | 0:33:58 | |
and this whole marvellous complex here. Now, | 0:33:58 | 0:34:00 | |
how do you justify that kind of expenditure of taxpayers' money? | 0:34:00 | 0:34:06 | |
Theatre, opera, music, is usually subsidised | 0:34:06 | 0:34:10 | |
and historically has been subsidised by somebody - | 0:34:10 | 0:34:12 | |
by the church, by the state, by the king. | 0:34:12 | 0:34:15 | |
It's been very rarely COMMERCIAL, in the ordinary sense of the word. | 0:34:15 | 0:34:19 | |
And if we actually believe that theatre, | 0:34:19 | 0:34:22 | |
as part of our heritage, needs to be kept, | 0:34:22 | 0:34:25 | |
you're going to have to pay for it, as you have to pay for education | 0:34:25 | 0:34:28 | |
or for library books or for any social amenity. | 0:34:28 | 0:34:31 | |
It's very good for people to be worried | 0:34:31 | 0:34:34 | |
and at the end of their tether | 0:34:34 | 0:34:35 | |
It sharpens them up. | 0:34:35 | 0:34:37 | |
The minute the ground feels firm underneath, | 0:34:37 | 0:34:39 | |
your body dulls, grows flabby. | 0:34:39 | 0:34:42 | |
Flabby?! Goes out of shape. | 0:34:42 | 0:34:45 | |
This is the first play | 0:34:47 | 0:34:49 | |
with people who have lived under Margaret Thatcher | 0:34:49 | 0:34:53 | |
to be presented in the Olivier Theatre. | 0:34:53 | 0:34:55 | |
And so to us, to Howard and me | 0:34:55 | 0:34:57 | |
it's an extraordinarily important occasion. | 0:34:57 | 0:35:00 | |
Margaret Thatcher knew that people who worked in the British theatre | 0:35:02 | 0:35:06 | |
were not natural admirers of her revolution. | 0:35:06 | 0:35:08 | |
And there was a degree of hostility | 0:35:08 | 0:35:10 | |
which was stoked up, of course by the Murdoch press, | 0:35:10 | 0:35:13 | |
which was also ideologically VERY OPPOSED to the idea | 0:35:13 | 0:35:18 | |
of there being what they called "a state theatre". | 0:35:18 | 0:35:21 | |
We felt that there was something horrible | 0:35:21 | 0:35:24 | |
happening to the press in the mid '80s. | 0:35:24 | 0:35:26 | |
It was a loss of independence and, er... | 0:35:26 | 0:35:31 | |
the moving in of powerful press barons. | 0:35:31 | 0:35:34 | |
They were hard-edged businessmen | 0:35:34 | 0:35:38 | |
who had a hard-edged view on the world, | 0:35:38 | 0:35:42 | |
which chimed with the Thatcher Government. | 0:35:42 | 0:35:45 | |
What on earth is all this stuff about THE TRUTH?! | 0:35:45 | 0:35:49 | |
Truth?! Why? When everywhere you go, people tell lies! | 0:35:49 | 0:35:54 | |
In pubs, to each other, | 0:35:54 | 0:35:56 | |
to their husbands, to their wives, | 0:35:56 | 0:35:58 | |
to the children, to the dying! | 0:35:58 | 0:36:00 | |
And thank God they do! | 0:36:00 | 0:36:02 | |
No-one tells the truth. | 0:36:02 | 0:36:05 | |
Anthony Hopkins' bravura performance | 0:36:06 | 0:36:08 | |
as the white South African, Lambert La Roux, | 0:36:08 | 0:36:12 | |
was quite obviously based on another controversial newspaper proprietor | 0:36:12 | 0:36:15 | |
from a different part of the colonies. | 0:36:15 | 0:36:19 | |
# It seems like | 0:36:19 | 0:36:20 | |
# It's illegal | 0:36:20 | 0:36:22 | |
# To fight for the union any more | 0:36:22 | 0:36:25 | |
# Which side are you on, boys? | 0:36:25 | 0:36:28 | |
# Which side are you on? # | 0:36:28 | 0:36:30 | |
That bloody place is always putting on plays attacking me! | 0:36:30 | 0:36:33 | |
They set the Comedy of Errors in Number Ten Downing Street. | 0:36:33 | 0:36:36 | |
Prime Minister... No, don't deny it, Humphrey! | 0:36:36 | 0:36:39 | |
I know who they were getting at | 0:36:39 | 0:36:40 | |
And there was a whole play attacking my nuclear policy - a farce. | 0:36:40 | 0:36:44 | |
The policy? | 0:36:44 | 0:36:45 | |
No, Humphrey, the play. | 0:36:45 | 0:36:46 | |
Why do they do it? Well, it's very healthy, Prime Minister. | 0:36:47 | 0:36:50 | |
Healthy? Yes. | 0:36:50 | 0:36:52 | |
Practically nobody goes to political plays. | 0:36:52 | 0:36:55 | |
And half those that do don't understand them. | 0:36:55 | 0:36:57 | |
And half those that understand them don't agree with them. | 0:36:57 | 0:37:00 | |
The seven who are left | 0:37:00 | 0:37:01 | |
would have voted against the Government anyway. | 0:37:01 | 0:37:03 | |
Now, Lords, Sir Peter Hall has led the attack on the Arts Council | 0:37:06 | 0:37:10 | |
on this Government and myself. | 0:37:10 | 0:37:13 | |
It is, of course, his right to do so. | 0:37:13 | 0:37:16 | |
Nevertheless, I don't feel that | 0:37:16 | 0:37:18 | |
he is the best qualified person | 0:37:18 | 0:37:21 | |
With ?6.7 million annually, | 0:37:21 | 0:37:24 | |
the National Theatre remains the best-funded theatre. | 0:37:24 | 0:37:28 | |
I know many directors up and down the land | 0:37:28 | 0:37:30 | |
who would like to have their budget | 0:37:30 | 0:37:33 | |
and Sir Peter's terms and conditions of employment. | 0:37:33 | 0:37:37 | |
# Lully, lullay | 0:37:37 | 0:37:39 | |
# Thou little tiny child | 0:37:39 | 0:37:43 | |
# Bye-bye, lully, | 0:37:43 | 0:37:45 | |
# Lullay. # | 0:37:45 | 0:37:47 | |
I bring thee but a ball. | 0:37:47 | 0:37:49 | |
Have him play wi' you all and go to the tennis. | 0:37:49 | 0:37:52 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:37:52 | 0:37:54 | |
The smallest of the National's three theatres was the Cottesloe. | 0:37:54 | 0:37:59 | |
It specialised in experimental productions, | 0:37:59 | 0:38:02 | |
like the all-day staging of The Mysteries, | 0:38:02 | 0:38:05 | |
which were adapted from medieval mystery plays | 0:38:05 | 0:38:09 | |
and staged in a promenade style | 0:38:09 | 0:38:11 | |
which involved the entire audience in the performance. | 0:38:11 | 0:38:14 | |
The people who had created these plays, | 0:38:15 | 0:38:18 | |
they weren't religious, | 0:38:18 | 0:38:21 | |
so much as celebrating in the community | 0:38:21 | 0:38:24 | |
and celebrating a common faith | 0:38:24 | 0:38:28 | |
And I think that came through | 0:38:28 | 0:38:32 | |
from the work to the audience. | 0:38:32 | 0:38:34 | |
And I think it was a celebration of the faith of the common man | 0:38:34 | 0:38:40 | |
If doomsday'd come much later, | 0:38:40 | 0:38:43 | |
we'd have had to build our hell grimmer... | 0:38:43 | 0:38:46 | |
Grander! Greater! | 0:38:46 | 0:38:48 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:38:48 | 0:38:51 | |
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for coming. | 0:38:57 | 0:39:02 | |
We warned the Arts Council in 19 2 | 0:39:02 | 0:39:06 | |
that if our reward for good housekeeping | 0:39:06 | 0:39:09 | |
was going to be year after year of grant increase | 0:39:09 | 0:39:13 | |
which was less than half of inflation, | 0:39:13 | 0:39:17 | |
there would be a day of reckoning. | 0:39:17 | 0:39:20 | |
Today, the crunch has come. | 0:39:20 | 0:39:22 | |
The quickest way to cut costs | 0:39:24 | 0:39:27 | |
is, tragically, to go dark in the Cottesloe. | 0:39:27 | 0:39:31 | |
There will inevitably be job losses among actors | 0:39:31 | 0:39:35 | |
and staff right the way through the building. | 0:39:35 | 0:39:37 | |
I think it is a manoeuvre | 0:39:39 | 0:39:42 | |
on the part of the Government | 0:39:42 | 0:39:44 | |
to prove that the arts are not important. | 0:39:44 | 0:39:49 | |
You come to this theatre and it's still not expensive. | 0:39:49 | 0:39:54 | |
That is what the argument is about, | 0:39:55 | 0:39:57 | |
is to keep it affordable | 0:39:57 | 0:39:59 | |
so we don't create an elitist theatre | 0:39:59 | 0:40:03 | |
that the people cannot afford. | 0:40:03 | 0:40:06 | |
Don't they still love her at all? | 0:40:07 | 0:40:10 | |
'Jack. | 0:40:12 | 0:40:14 | |
'Before you leave, have a look out there in the front drive. | 0:40:14 | 0:40:18 | |
'You'll see a black Porsche. 944S Coupe. | 0:40:18 | 0:40:22 | |
'Brand-new registration, personalised number plate, that I love. | 0:40:22 | 0:40:28 | |
'Just outside Chichester, I have a small sailing boat which I'd | 0:40:28 | 0:40:32 | |
'willingly lay down my life for Anita.' | 0:40:32 | 0:40:36 | |
'Who needs all that, Jack? I don t.' | 0:40:37 | 0:40:41 | |
It's a play about an honest man in a world of complete corruption, | 0:40:41 | 0:40:45 | |
and he slowly becomes corrupted | 0:40:45 | 0:40:48 | |
What Peter called a modern morality play. | 0:40:48 | 0:40:50 | |
I'm an enormous fan of Marks Spencer. | 0:40:50 | 0:40:52 | |
This is a Marks Spencer coat it's superb... | 0:40:52 | 0:40:56 | |
There was no agreed moral code under Thatcher | 0:40:56 | 0:40:59 | |
because it's each man for his own, really. | 0:40:59 | 0:41:02 | |
That was the feeling - anyone can make it | 0:41:02 | 0:41:04 | |
and if you're treading over somebody else to get there, to hell with it. | 0:41:04 | 0:41:08 | |
I think it probably reflected that time. | 0:41:11 | 0:41:14 | |
Peter said in a few hundred years' time, | 0:41:14 | 0:41:18 | |
if they want to know what society was like, they needn't look no further | 0:41:18 | 0:41:22 | |
than my plays to reflect perhaps | 0:41:22 | 0:41:25 | |
the general feeling of the Middle England people. | 0:41:25 | 0:41:29 | |
I'm not political in the way that David Hare is political, I'm social. | 0:41:29 | 0:41:33 | |
Thou must not take my former sharpness ill. | 0:41:39 | 0:41:43 | |
I will employ thee back again. | 0:41:44 | 0:41:47 | |
I find thee...most fit for business. | 0:41:48 | 0:41:53 | |
In spite of the ever more complex battles | 0:41:53 | 0:41:56 | |
being fought out on its stages | 0:41:56 | 0:41:58 | |
the National always honoured its obligation to | 0:41:58 | 0:42:01 | |
put on Shakespeare and the classics, | 0:42:01 | 0:42:03 | |
and productions such as Peter Hall's Antony And Cleopatra could still | 0:42:03 | 0:42:08 | |
attract stellar casting in the form of Anthony Hopkins and Judi Dench. | 0:42:08 | 0:42:13 | |
Peter is sublime at directing, | 0:42:13 | 0:42:16 | |
and there is he and John Barton | 0:42:16 | 0:42:18 | |
and Trevor Nunn who can teach you how to speak the verse. | 0:42:18 | 0:42:22 | |
When we did Antony And Cleopatra, | 0:42:22 | 0:42:25 | |
he was actually beating out the line - "Our royal lady's dead. | 0:42:25 | 0:42:30 | |
"Dead, dead." - so that we would... | 0:42:30 | 0:42:33 | |
And it took us ages to do. | 0:42:33 | 0:42:35 | |
And so, at the end of the morning, we got to, "Our royal lady's dead," | 0:42:35 | 0:42:41 | |
and there was a pause and Peter said, "Thank, Christ!" | 0:42:41 | 0:42:45 | |
And I had a plan to do here Cymbeline, Pericles and A Winter's Tale... | 0:42:46 | 0:42:50 | |
'In a way, one wants to catch the tempo | 0:42:50 | 0:42:53 | |
'so that we can ride on that,' | 0:42:53 | 0:42:56 | |
you know? And so when I want you to go, "Uhh! Now what?" | 0:42:56 | 0:43:01 | |
it should be... Yeah, yeah. | 0:43:01 | 0:43:03 | |
In 1988, at the age of 57 and after 15 years as director | 0:43:03 | 0:43:09 | |
Peter Hall decided that it was time to leave the National. | 0:43:09 | 0:43:13 | |
He had transformed it from the tight, actor-led company | 0:43:13 | 0:43:17 | |
under Laurence Olivier into a theatre of international importance. | 0:43:17 | 0:43:22 | |
In 2011, at the age of 80, he returned to the National to | 0:43:23 | 0:43:29 | |
direct Shakespeare's Twelfth Night, starring his daughter, Rebecca | 0:43:29 | 0:43:33 | |
I think Peter Hall is the only person who could have taken | 0:43:36 | 0:43:41 | |
the National Theatre from the kind of operation that it | 0:43:41 | 0:43:46 | |
was at the Old Vic into the new National Theatre building. | 0:43:46 | 0:43:51 | |
It needed somebody who was an extraordinary impresario | 0:43:51 | 0:43:56 | |
who had a producerial instinct | 0:43:56 | 0:43:59 | |
Peter was a fantastically hard act to follow. | 0:43:59 | 0:44:02 | |
Peter Hall had already chosen a successor who had been | 0:44:05 | 0:44:09 | |
waiting in the wings for some time. | 0:44:09 | 0:44:11 | |
The politics were quite comic. | 0:44:17 | 0:44:22 | |
It was the days | 0:44:22 | 0:44:23 | |
when things were fixed in quiet corners at the Savoy Hotel. | 0:44:23 | 0:44:29 | |
Richard Eyre had been the prince-in-waiting | 0:44:31 | 0:44:34 | |
for a very long time. I think he found it quite trying. | 0:44:34 | 0:44:37 | |
In other words, it was perfectly clear from the moment | 0:44:37 | 0:44:40 | |
he did Guys And Dolls in the early '80s, | 0:44:40 | 0:44:42 | |
Richard was the right person to take over from Peter, | 0:44:42 | 0:44:44 | |
and Peter was always on the point of going and then he was saying, | 0:44:44 | 0:44:47 | |
"I think I'll do another Shakespeare play and then I'll do | 0:44:47 | 0:44:50 | |
"a cycle of this and that," | 0:44:50 | 0:44:51 | |
and I think Richard had become very impatient. | 0:44:51 | 0:44:54 | |
Richard Eyre was now better known for his film and television work, | 0:44:54 | 0:44:57 | |
on programmes such as Play For Today at the BBC. | 0:44:57 | 0:45:00 | |
At the time, the board of the National Theatre was | 0:45:00 | 0:45:04 | |
appointed by the Government. The Prime Minister had a say | 0:45:04 | 0:45:08 | |
in the appointment of the director of the National Theatre. | 0:45:08 | 0:45:13 | |
I know that there was a certain | 0:45:13 | 0:45:15 | |
amount of doubt about my suitability, which was | 0:45:15 | 0:45:19 | |
exacerbated by the fact that, in 1986, | 0:45:19 | 0:45:22 | |
I directed a film called Tumbledown which | 0:45:22 | 0:45:25 | |
was about the Falklands War, | 0:45:25 | 0:45:27 | |
which was attacked viciously in Parliament | 0:45:27 | 0:45:30 | |
and so I was sort of branded as "public pinko pacifist". | 0:45:30 | 0:45:35 | |
Isn't this fun?! | 0:45:35 | 0:45:37 | |
GUNSHOTS | 0:45:37 | 0:45:40 | |
Now, this morning, a new era begins on the Southbank Centre in London. | 0:45:40 | 0:45:45 | |
Today is the day that Richard Eyre officially takes over | 0:45:45 | 0:45:49 | |
from Sir Peter Hall as an artistic director of the National Theatre. | 0:45:49 | 0:45:52 | |
It's preposterous of me to stand up in public | 0:45:52 | 0:45:55 | |
and pretend to have the same public profile as Peter Hall. | 0:45:55 | 0:46:00 | |
I share his belief that we have to campaign in every way possible | 0:46:00 | 0:46:05 | |
to gain more public money, but my tactics will be very different | 0:46:05 | 0:46:09 | |
You're not going to be as pugnacious? | 0:46:09 | 0:46:12 | |
I may be as pugnacious in private but I think it's most unlikely | 0:46:12 | 0:46:16 | |
I should be as pugnacious in public. | 0:46:16 | 0:46:18 | |
Good evening. | 0:46:20 | 0:46:22 | |
The Dutch pictures that you'll see here only form really a minute part | 0:46:22 | 0:46:27 | |
of the whole Royal Collection, | 0:46:27 | 0:46:28 | |
which contains something like 4,500... | 0:46:28 | 0:46:31 | |
Richard Eyre kicked off with a controversy in the form | 0:46:31 | 0:46:35 | |
of a new play by Alan Bennett about Sir Anthony Blunt, | 0:46:35 | 0:46:38 | |
the Surveyor of the Queen's Pictures, | 0:46:38 | 0:46:41 | |
who had recently been unmasked as a Soviet spy. | 0:46:41 | 0:46:45 | |
I was persuaded by Guy Burgess that I could best serve | 0:46:45 | 0:46:49 | |
the cause of anti-Fascism by joining him in his work for the Russians. | 0:46:49 | 0:46:54 | |
'It will be painful. | 0:46:54 | 0:46:57 | |
'You will be the object of scrutiny, explanations sought after, | 0:46:57 | 0:47:00 | |
'your history examined. | 0:47:00 | 0:47:03 | |
'You will be named, attributed. | 0:47:03 | 0:47:07 | |
As a fake, I shall, of course, | 0:47:07 | 0:47:10 | |
excite more interest than the genuine article. | 0:47:10 | 0:47:13 | |
The thing nowadays I find quite difficult to take is just this | 0:47:13 | 0:47:16 | |
received idea that treason is the worst possible crime in the world. | 0:47:16 | 0:47:21 | |
I can't think that it is. The world's too small a place now for that | 0:47:21 | 0:47:25 | |
Bennett's play was controversial not only | 0:47:27 | 0:47:29 | |
because it mocked the British Establishment, | 0:47:29 | 0:47:32 | |
but because it put the Queen on stage for the first time, | 0:47:32 | 0:47:35 | |
much to the horror of some of the members | 0:47:35 | 0:47:38 | |
of the National Theatre's board | 0:47:38 | 0:47:40 | |
The board was nervous that the portrayal of the Queen | 0:47:40 | 0:47:45 | |
on stage would be offensive. | 0:47:45 | 0:47:48 | |
They felt it was too subversive they tried to stop it, | 0:47:48 | 0:47:50 | |
Richard made it a resignation issue, | 0:47:50 | 0:47:52 | |
the board backed down and since then, I think the board has never tried | 0:47:52 | 0:47:55 | |
to influence repertoire ever again, and that's exactly how it should be. | 0:47:55 | 0:47:59 | |
The play was later filmed for television | 0:48:00 | 0:48:04 | |
with James Fox and Prunella Scales. | 0:48:04 | 0:48:07 | |
I still think the word "fake" is inappropriate, ma'am. | 0:48:07 | 0:48:11 | |
If something is not what it claims to be, what is it? | 0:48:12 | 0:48:15 | |
An enigma? | 0:48:18 | 0:48:19 | |
That is, I think, the sophisticated answer. | 0:48:20 | 0:48:24 | |
My father always like going to the theatre very much. | 0:48:25 | 0:48:28 | |
I liked going with him | 0:48:28 | 0:48:29 | |
but I wasn't a particular theatregoer, | 0:48:29 | 0:48:31 | |
in the sense that I went and saw everything, no. | 0:48:31 | 0:48:34 | |
In 1988, the Government appointed Winston Churchill's daughter, | 0:48:36 | 0:48:40 | |
Mary Soames, as the new chairman of the National Theatre. | 0:48:40 | 0:48:44 | |
My appointment was regarded with deep suspicion by the theatre. | 0:48:46 | 0:48:50 | |
I think the worry was that I'd been sent there by a Tory Government | 0:48:50 | 0:48:56 | |
to chase out the pinkos on the Left Bank. | 0:48:56 | 0:49:00 | |
One of the first thing she said to me was, "Richard, | 0:49:00 | 0:49:02 | |
"if I take this on, you're going to have to help me | 0:49:02 | 0:49:04 | |
"because I know absolutely nothing about theatre," | 0:49:04 | 0:49:07 | |
which was confirmed a few days later by, | 0:49:07 | 0:49:10 | |
there was a lunch, Mary sent me her place card, wrote on it, | 0:49:10 | 0:49:15 | |
pushed it across the table, | 0:49:15 | 0:49:17 | |
and it said, "Who is Ian McKellen?" | 0:49:17 | 0:49:20 | |
Put in place by Mrs Thatcher, Prime Minister, perhaps impressed | 0:49:20 | 0:49:26 | |
that she could give Winston Churchill's daughter a job... | 0:49:26 | 0:49:31 | |
but perhaps thought that Mary Soames would keep an eye | 0:49:31 | 0:49:34 | |
on the National Theatre and not let it run out of hand | 0:49:34 | 0:49:38 | |
But, of course, what happened is that Mary Soames, | 0:49:38 | 0:49:41 | |
being a sociable person, loves a good laugh and a drink and | 0:49:41 | 0:49:45 | |
the occasional cigar, fell into the lap of all these friendly people! | 0:49:45 | 0:49:50 | |
I decided that Richard Eyre was the most wonderful director that | 0:49:52 | 0:49:57 | |
ever could be, but there were plenty of things for me to attend to on | 0:49:57 | 0:50:02 | |
what I believe was old fashionedly known as the distaff side, | 0:50:02 | 0:50:06 | |
known as getting marks off the carpet and various other domestic things. | 0:50:06 | 0:50:12 | |
Mary Soames was also perfectly equipped | 0:50:14 | 0:50:18 | |
to form new relationships between the National | 0:50:18 | 0:50:20 | |
and some of the forces which it had been suspicious of in the past | 0:50:20 | 0:50:25 | |
Sponsorship, you see, then, was a slightly dirty word | 0:50:25 | 0:50:30 | |
and, consequently, they hadn't cultivated it at all. | 0:50:30 | 0:50:33 | |
I did start giving a chairman's dinner. | 0:50:35 | 0:50:39 | |
And I used to prevail upon Ian McKellen or whoever. | 0:50:39 | 0:50:44 | |
I said, "Do be angelic and come to the dinner. It would help so much." | 0:50:44 | 0:50:50 | |
Although the National was no longer a repertory company, | 0:50:55 | 0:50:59 | |
there was a community of actors that worked there, | 0:50:59 | 0:51:02 | |
often in plays by writers who had fallen out of fashion. | 0:51:02 | 0:51:06 | |
One thing I don't have is the charm of the defeated. | 0:51:07 | 0:51:12 | |
My hat is still in the ring and I am determined to win. | 0:51:12 | 0:51:17 | |
What is the victory of a cat on a hot tin roof? I wish I knew. | 0:51:19 | 0:51:24 | |
Just staying on it, I guess, as long as she can. | 0:51:25 | 0:51:28 | |
No-one at the time, would you believe this, was doing Tennessee Williams. | 0:51:30 | 0:51:33 | |
They just regarded him as a camp old fruit, | 0:51:33 | 0:51:37 | |
and there was a sort of slightly | 0:51:37 | 0:51:41 | |
'culturally homophobic attitude towards | 0:51:41 | 0:51:43 | |
'that kind of overripe writing | 0:51:43 | 0:51:47 | |
'and to get back to the British audience a play of that stature | 0:51:47 | 0:51:52 | |
'of that quality, with that cast, I was thrilled. | 0:51:52 | 0:51:57 | |
I've dropped my crutch. | 0:51:58 | 0:52:00 | |
Lean on me. No, just give me my crutch. | 0:52:00 | 0:52:02 | |
Lean on my shoulder. I don't want to lean on your shoulder! | 0:52:02 | 0:52:05 | |
I want my crutch! | 0:52:05 | 0:52:07 | |
This is the 1989 production of Hamlet in the Olivier Theatre. | 0:52:11 | 0:52:14 | |
This is the rehearsal room with Richard Eyre on the left, | 0:52:16 | 0:52:19 | |
Daniel Day-Lewis, who played Hamlet, and Judi Dench, who played Gertrude. | 0:52:19 | 0:52:25 | |
Be thou a spirit of health or goblin damned. | 0:52:28 | 0:52:32 | |
Bring with thee airs from heaven or blasts from hell. | 0:52:33 | 0:52:39 | |
Be thy intents wicked or charitable, | 0:52:39 | 0:52:42 | |
thou comest in such a questionable shape | 0:52:42 | 0:52:45 | |
that I will speak to thee! | 0:52:45 | 0:52:47 | |
I'll call thee Hamlet! | 0:52:47 | 0:52:51 | |
King! | 0:52:51 | 0:52:52 | |
Father! | 0:52:53 | 0:52:56 | |
I never quite know, when people say, "Have a breakdown, | 0:52:57 | 0:53:01 | |
how much that entails, | 0:53:01 | 0:53:03 | |
but all I remember him saying was that he just saw his father. | 0:53:03 | 0:53:07 | |
And it just completely overtook him, overcame him. | 0:53:07 | 0:53:12 | |
And he...he couldn't go on. | 0:53:14 | 0:53:17 | |
In September 1989, Daniel Day-Lewis walked out of | 0:53:19 | 0:53:23 | |
Richard Eyre's production of Hamlet | 0:53:23 | 0:53:26 | |
in the middle of a performance and never returned. | 0:53:26 | 0:53:29 | |
Dan withdrew, essentially had a breakdown, | 0:53:29 | 0:53:34 | |
and I decided to cast Ian Charleson, who was dying, | 0:53:34 | 0:53:40 | |
and he was magnificent and heartbreaking. | 0:53:40 | 0:53:44 | |
When Ian Charleson learnt that Daniel Day-Lewis was doing Hamlet, | 0:53:47 | 0:53:51 | |
I remember, on the phone with him, he said, "That's my fat chance, | 0:53:51 | 0:53:54 | |
because he'd already been diagnosed, then, with HIV, | 0:53:54 | 0:53:58 | |
and he said, "I've always wanted to play Hamlet, | 0:53:58 | 0:54:01 | |
"and that's it over. I can't do it any longer." | 0:54:01 | 0:54:04 | |
And then, when Daniel left, Richard Eyre had this chance. | 0:54:04 | 0:54:08 | |
'It's the biggest threat to public health this century, | 0:54:08 | 0:54:12 | |
'invariably fatal | 0:54:12 | 0:54:15 | |
'and, some say, God's gift to bigots.' | 0:54:15 | 0:54:18 | |
Ian had AIDS, quite advanced AIDS, | 0:54:20 | 0:54:23 | |
and it had damaged his beautiful face. | 0:54:23 | 0:54:26 | |
But not his voice, and nor his spirit, somehow. | 0:54:27 | 0:54:30 | |
And his energy levels, he kept in reserve | 0:54:30 | 0:54:35 | |
to play Hamlet on the Olivier stage. | 0:54:35 | 0:54:37 | |
A performance which, more than any other Hamlet... | 0:54:40 | 0:54:45 | |
..was about death, | 0:54:47 | 0:54:49 | |
because the actor playing the part knew he was dying. | 0:54:49 | 0:54:52 | |
And when he said "let be"... | 0:54:54 | 0:54:57 | |
..you didn't have to know how ill... | 0:54:59 | 0:55:02 | |
Ian Charleson was to be affected by that. | 0:55:02 | 0:55:05 | |
It's this perpetual absence. | 0:55:11 | 0:55:15 | |
It's not being here. It's that | 0:55:17 | 0:55:20 | |
I mean, let's be honest. | 0:55:20 | 0:55:23 | |
It's just beginning to get some of us down, | 0:55:23 | 0:55:25 | |
you know? | 0:55:25 | 0:55:27 | |
Is that unreasonable? | 0:55:28 | 0:55:30 | |
There are an awful lot of people round here in a very bad way | 0:55:32 | 0:55:37 | |
and they NEED something besides silence. | 0:55:37 | 0:55:41 | |
God. | 0:55:42 | 0:55:44 | |
David Hare's Racing Demon is about a group of English clergymen working | 0:55:46 | 0:55:51 | |
in the inner city and struggling with the enormity of their task | 0:55:51 | 0:55:55 | |
David Hare had visited a Synod and reported back | 0:55:55 | 0:56:01 | |
that he was very, very interested in the Church of England | 0:56:01 | 0:56:05 | |
as an exemplary English institution, | 0:56:05 | 0:56:08 | |
and he thought it was a wonderful metaphor | 0:56:08 | 0:56:10 | |
for talking about English institutions. | 0:56:10 | 0:56:13 | |
Racing Demon became the first in a trilogy of plays about the Church, | 0:56:15 | 0:56:20 | |
the law and politics, that Richard Eyre commissioned and directed | 0:56:20 | 0:56:25 | |
The thinking behind the trilogy was that | 0:56:25 | 0:56:28 | |
a group of right-wing intellectuals had taken hold in Downing Street. | 0:56:28 | 0:56:32 | |
They had a lot of really stupid ideas, like monetarism | 0:56:32 | 0:56:35 | |
and this theory of welfare dependency, | 0:56:35 | 0:56:39 | |
these theories of the underclass, | 0:56:39 | 0:56:41 | |
but it had effects on society | 0:56:41 | 0:56:43 | |
and it led to divisions in society. | 0:56:43 | 0:56:46 | |
And so, my heroes and heroines in the trilogy became the people | 0:56:46 | 0:56:50 | |
whose job was to bandage the wounds. | 0:56:50 | 0:56:53 | |
They were the people on the front line. | 0:56:53 | 0:56:55 | |
I said, "David, this is what the National Theatre was invented for, | 0:56:55 | 0:57:01 | |
"was to present these plays about the Church, the law and politics " | 0:57:01 | 0:57:06 | |
'We have, in this country, I say,' | 0:57:10 | 0:57:13 | |
one party whose whole interest | 0:57:13 | 0:57:16 | |
is in giving still more to those who already have! | 0:57:16 | 0:57:21 | |
To those that have, shall more be given. | 0:57:22 | 0:57:25 | |
'I can never get over the intellectual disgrace of that idea!' | 0:57:27 | 0:57:34 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:57:34 | 0:57:36 | |
The third play in the trilogy was based on | 0:57:36 | 0:57:39 | |
the Labour Party's disastrous election campaign in 1992, | 0:57:39 | 0:57:43 | |
which resulted in five more years of Conservative rule. | 0:57:43 | 0:57:47 | |
Richard Eyre made the bold decision to stage all three plays | 0:57:49 | 0:57:53 | |
in the trilogy in the Olivier Theatre on the same day | 0:57:53 | 0:57:56 | |
I think that he was absolutely determined to make his mark | 0:57:56 | 0:58:01 | |
through contemporary writing. | 0:58:01 | 0:58:03 | |
Peter Hall, Harold Pinter, Nick Hytner, Alan Bennett, | 0:58:03 | 0:58:07 | |
always, in great theatres, you have a great partnership | 0:58:07 | 0:58:11 | |
between a writer who is doing and saying | 0:58:11 | 0:58:16 | |
exactly what that artistic director wishes to see | 0:58:16 | 0:58:19 | |
expressed at that time, | 0:58:19 | 0:58:21 | |
and when Richard was there, I was in that partnership with Richard. | 0:58:21 | 0:58:25 | |
I want to show you the world. | 0:58:27 | 0:58:29 | |
I do not want to see the world | 0:58:29 | 0:58:31 | |
From what I've seen of it so far, it has very little to recommend it. | 0:58:31 | 0:58:34 | |
Everybody's doing things, getting somewhere. | 0:58:34 | 0:58:38 | |
Oh, you mean the rat race? HE GUFFAWS | 0:58:38 | 0:58:41 | |
In December 1990, the youthful Nicholas Hytner came to | 0:58:41 | 0:58:44 | |
direct the National's Christmas show. | 0:58:44 | 0:58:47 | |
He had already made a name for himself directing opera | 0:58:47 | 0:58:51 | |
and had recently opened a smash-hit musical, Miss Saigon, | 0:58:51 | 0:58:54 | |
in the West End. | 0:58:54 | 0:58:56 | |
I suggested to Richard Eyre, that I'd like to do a big family show. | 0:58:57 | 0:59:03 | |
I suggested The Wind In The Willows. | 0:59:03 | 0:59:05 | |
He said that he'd been trying to persuade Alan Bennett to write | 0:59:05 | 0:59:09 | |
a play about Kenneth Grahame. | 0:59:09 | 0:59:11 | |
What was a surprise was that Alan said yes with such alacrity. | 0:59:11 | 0:59:14 | |
He'd not written a new play for quite a while. | 0:59:14 | 0:59:17 | |
I think he was stuck, so it was a good opportunity for him | 0:59:17 | 0:59:21 | |
to get back into the theatre. | 0:59:21 | 0:59:23 | |
The Wind In The Willows marked the beginning of a collaboration | 0:59:23 | 0:59:27 | |
between Hytner and Bennett which was to become one of | 0:59:27 | 0:59:30 | |
the most successful in the National's history. | 0:59:30 | 0:59:33 | |
It's not the same, is it? | 0:59:33 | 0:59:35 | |
What not the same? | 0:59:37 | 0:59:39 | |
Without Toad. | 0:59:39 | 0:59:40 | |
My first play with Nick was in 1990 | 0:59:40 | 0:59:45 | |
with the adaptation of The Wind In The Willows, | 0:59:45 | 0:59:48 | |
and it does seem to me, when you're doing a play, | 0:59:48 | 0:59:52 | |
they absolutely bend everything to accommodate you. | 0:59:52 | 0:59:57 | |
You're never made to feel you're just passing through, | 0:59:57 | 1:00:00 | |
that you're the playwright who's here for the next two months, or whatever. | 1:00:00 | 1:00:05 | |
The new play work with Richard got more and more successful. | 1:00:07 | 1:00:12 | |
One of them, I'm happy to say, | 1:00:12 | 1:00:15 | |
was a play called Arcadia, by Tom Stoppard. | 1:00:15 | 1:00:19 | |
Tell me more about sexual congress. | 1:00:19 | 1:00:21 | |
There's nothing more to be said about sexual congress. | 1:00:21 | 1:00:25 | |
Is it the same as love? | 1:00:25 | 1:00:27 | |
Oh, no - it's much nicer than that! | 1:00:27 | 1:00:30 | |
LAUGHTER | 1:00:30 | 1:00:32 | |
Tom, who I'd had a lot to do with before, came to me and said, | 1:00:32 | 1:00:37 | |
"I want you to do it at the National." | 1:00:37 | 1:00:40 | |
I'd left the RSC by then, but I had that decision to take, of, | 1:00:40 | 1:00:45 | |
do I go over the river and do a piece of work there? | 1:00:45 | 1:00:49 | |
And in my history, that was a very important stepping stone. | 1:00:50 | 1:00:54 | |
Trevor Nunn was Peter Hall's assistant and his successor | 1:01:00 | 1:01:04 | |
at the Royal Shakespeare Company, where he was known for his rigorous | 1:01:04 | 1:01:08 | |
and highly intellectual approach to Shakespeare. | 1:01:08 | 1:01:12 | |
I think we'd all agree on... | 1:01:12 | 1:01:13 | |
the fundamentally importance in Shakespeare of the text | 1:01:13 | 1:01:18 | |
and the fact that every production has got to grow from the text. | 1:01:18 | 1:01:21 | |
In the 1980s, he pioneered a new theatrical form - | 1:01:26 | 1:01:30 | |
the literary musical. | 1:01:30 | 1:01:32 | |
First with TS Eliot's poems about cats | 1:01:32 | 1:01:35 | |
and then with an adaptation of a well-known but little-read novel | 1:01:35 | 1:01:40 | |
by Victor Hugo, which became a worldwide hit, | 1:01:40 | 1:01:43 | |
bankrolled the RSC for over a decade, | 1:01:43 | 1:01:45 | |
and made Nunn himself a large private fortune. | 1:01:45 | 1:01:49 | |
Far more English people do know the story of Les Miserables | 1:01:53 | 1:01:57 | |
and they think they do. | 1:01:57 | 1:02:00 | |
A great deal of Hollywood production is based on that wonderful tale | 1:02:00 | 1:02:03 | |
of Les Miserables - a man who is fundamentally innocent, | 1:02:03 | 1:02:08 | |
who is pursued for the whole of his life by the forces of the law. | 1:02:08 | 1:02:13 | |
# Do you hear the people sing | 1:02:13 | 1:02:16 | |
# Singing a song of angry men | 1:02:16 | 1:02:19 | |
# It is the music of a people who will not be... # | 1:02:19 | 1:02:23 | |
By the middle of the 1990s, | 1:02:23 | 1:02:25 | |
Richard Eyre's tenure at the National was coming to an end | 1:02:25 | 1:02:29 | |
and he was beginning to look around for a successor. | 1:02:29 | 1:02:32 | |
I think it is the best job in the world. | 1:02:32 | 1:02:36 | |
You are running this organisation in which everybody | 1:02:36 | 1:02:41 | |
believes that they are working to the same end, | 1:02:41 | 1:02:46 | |
which is to put plays on in three auditoriums, | 1:02:46 | 1:02:50 | |
52 weeks of the year. | 1:02:50 | 1:02:52 | |
Surprisingly, none of the eligible younger directors of the time | 1:02:56 | 1:03:00 | |
seemed to be interested in taking on | 1:03:00 | 1:03:02 | |
the most important job in the British theatre. | 1:03:02 | 1:03:06 | |
I canvassed all possible candidates. | 1:03:06 | 1:03:10 | |
Nick Hytner was one who, at the time, said, "No, no, no, | 1:03:10 | 1:03:14 | |
"I couldn't, I couldn't." | 1:03:14 | 1:03:16 | |
Various members of the board were set | 1:03:17 | 1:03:21 | |
the task of meeting various people | 1:03:21 | 1:03:24 | |
in the potential director position. | 1:03:24 | 1:03:29 | |
I'd known Trevor for a long time | 1:03:29 | 1:03:32 | |
and we had lunch somewhere. | 1:03:32 | 1:03:34 | |
I was approached quite clandestinely by a colleague | 1:03:34 | 1:03:39 | |
and, gradually, the approaches got more serious, involving the idea of, | 1:03:39 | 1:03:45 | |
you know, "You really owe it," | 1:03:45 | 1:03:47 | |
and, um, "You need to pay something back." | 1:03:47 | 1:03:51 | |
# Oh, what a beautiful morning | 1:03:51 | 1:03:56 | |
# Oh, what a beautiful day... # | 1:03:56 | 1:03:59 | |
When I met representatives of the board, | 1:03:59 | 1:04:03 | |
it became clear that what they really needed | 1:04:03 | 1:04:07 | |
was the absolute opposite of a new broom or a young Turk, | 1:04:07 | 1:04:12 | |
that they wanted a period of consolidation and therefore, | 1:04:12 | 1:04:17 | |
I knew that what was expected of me was to maintain and to continue. | 1:04:17 | 1:04:23 | |
The new man in the top job in British theatre is 56. | 1:04:23 | 1:04:27 | |
The National overlooked highly regarded younger directors | 1:04:27 | 1:04:30 | |
to opt for a safe pair of hands | 1:04:30 | 1:04:32 | |
He likes classical and experimental plays | 1:04:32 | 1:04:35 | |
and popular theatre. His aim.. | 1:04:35 | 1:04:37 | |
To bring all of those ingredients under one roof | 1:04:37 | 1:04:40 | |
and, by the end of my tenure, to be able to claim that more people | 1:04:40 | 1:04:43 | |
who had never been to the National Theatre before | 1:04:43 | 1:04:46 | |
have now entered its doors and enjoyed it. | 1:04:46 | 1:04:49 | |
# The breeze is so busy, it don't miss a tree | 1:04:49 | 1:04:55 | |
# And an old weeping willow... # | 1:04:55 | 1:05:00 | |
When I worked with Trevor at the Royal Shakespeare Company, | 1:05:00 | 1:05:03 | |
what was extraordinary about him | 1:05:03 | 1:05:05 | |
was that he had developed an approach to theatre which was populist. | 1:05:05 | 1:05:08 | |
He really wanted to get a new audience in and his key to that | 1:05:08 | 1:05:15 | |
was his falling in love with American musicals. | 1:05:15 | 1:05:20 | |
He suddenly saw the huge energy and quality to American musicals | 1:05:20 | 1:05:24 | |
that made him go, "This will reach a new audience " | 1:05:24 | 1:05:28 | |
Some people hated that idea | 1:05:28 | 1:05:30 | |
because they thought this was populist and lowbrow | 1:05:30 | 1:05:34 | |
and he plugged on, thinking "I don't care. | 1:05:34 | 1:05:36 | |
"I'm going to try and get a new audience in." | 1:05:36 | 1:05:39 | |
The rain in Spain stays mainly in the plain. | 1:05:39 | 1:05:43 | |
Were going to look at My Fair Lady - Trevor Nunn's production. | 1:05:43 | 1:05:47 | |
It played in the Lyttelton in 20 1 and transferred to the West End | 1:05:47 | 1:05:51 | |
# The rain in Spain stays mainly in the plain. # | 1:05:51 | 1:05:56 | |
By George, she's got it. By George, she's got it! | 1:05:56 | 1:06:01 | |
Now once again, where does it rain? | 1:06:01 | 1:06:04 | |
# On the plain, on the plain | 1:06:04 | 1:06:08 | |
And where's that soggy plain? | 1:06:08 | 1:06:12 | |
# In Spain, in Spain. # | 1:06:12 | 1:06:15 | |
I don't want to overemphasise it in the sense that, yes, we did do several musical works | 1:06:15 | 1:06:21 | |
but, at the same time, during my period, | 1:06:21 | 1:06:24 | |
we did 35 new plays, | 1:06:24 | 1:06:26 | |
we did countless revivals of classic cameras, both English and European. | 1:06:26 | 1:06:30 | |
So it was just one of the things that was going on. | 1:06:30 | 1:06:33 | |
I was absolutely clear that what was necessary was new blood, | 1:06:37 | 1:06:44 | |
new ways of thinking, so I got Mick back directing a couple of things | 1:06:44 | 1:06:51 | |
and then, Nick became the key candidate. | 1:06:51 | 1:06:55 | |
People ask me... | 1:07:00 | 1:07:02 | |
do the English people want a national theatre? | 1:07:02 | 1:07:09 | |
Well, of course they don't. | 1:07:09 | 1:07:11 | |
They never want anything. | 1:07:11 | 1:07:13 | |
Nowadays, I think more people than not like the sight | 1:07:16 | 1:07:20 | |
of the National Theatre as they walk over Waterloo Bridge. I love it. | 1:07:20 | 1:07:23 | |
I absolutely love it. It makes my heart lift. | 1:07:23 | 1:07:25 | |
It's a kind of sculptural masterpiece, as far as I'm concerned. | 1:07:25 | 1:07:29 | |
But I'm prepared to accept that s not a universally held view. | 1:07:29 | 1:07:32 | |
Of all times in our history, we need a heartening thing. | 1:07:39 | 1:07:43 | |
The most beautiful building you can imagine... | 1:07:43 | 1:07:47 | |
in the ideal spot on the River Thames in the heart | 1:07:47 | 1:07:50 | |
of our capital city, I think | 1:07:50 | 1:07:52 | |
will give a great feeling of pride | 1:07:52 | 1:07:54 | |
to all the inhabitants of these islands. | 1:07:54 | 1:07:57 | |
I find it very moving, really. | 1:07:58 | 1:08:00 | |
The thought that 50 years ago, | 1:08:00 | 1:08:03 | |
people were trying to imagine what the best possible circumstances | 1:08:03 | 1:08:06 | |
for making theatre might be, and then building it. | 1:08:06 | 1:08:09 | |
That the National should have arrived with such a simple ambition | 1:08:09 | 1:08:14 | |
to be the best. People said, "Oh, yes, let's have the best one. | 1:08:14 | 1:08:18 | |
"While we're at it, let's have three theatres and let's make it | 1:08:18 | 1:08:21 | |
"possible that we can make everything under the same roof except shoes. | 1:08:21 | 1:08:24 | |
"We'll allow that shoes should be made elsewhere. | 1:08:24 | 1:08:27 | |
# Cocksuckers! # | 1:08:30 | 1:08:31 | |
LAUGHTER | 1:08:31 | 1:08:33 | |
# I hope there's some fighting | 1:08:33 | 1:08:36 | |
# Possibly some fighting | 1:08:36 | 1:08:37 | |
# You stupid asshole. # | 1:08:37 | 1:08:40 | |
In 2003, Nick Hytner took over as director of the National | 1:08:40 | 1:08:45 | |
with a season of plays that was both provocative and populist. | 1:08:45 | 1:08:48 | |
# Asshole! # | 1:08:48 | 1:08:51 | |
I worked at the National Theatre | 1:08:51 | 1:08:53 | |
as a general assistant in the director's office | 1:08:53 | 1:08:56 | |
at the beginning of Nick Hytner's tenure here. | 1:08:56 | 1:08:59 | |
The big thing that felt defining was the putting on | 1:08:59 | 1:09:02 | |
of Jerry Springer, The Opera. | 1:09:02 | 1:09:05 | |
He brought a show that was done at the Edinburgh Festival | 1:09:05 | 1:09:09 | |
that had a ridiculous amount of swearing in it. | 1:09:09 | 1:09:12 | |
# And give or take a few million | 1:09:12 | 1:09:15 | |
# Bigger than the fucking Pope. # | 1:09:15 | 1:09:18 | |
Jokes about Jesus, jokes about people shitting themselves. | 1:09:18 | 1:09:23 | |
It was coarse and hilarious and brilliant and moving. | 1:09:23 | 1:09:27 | |
I thought everything that is outrageous and sharp and funny | 1:09:31 | 1:09:37 | |
and subversive about this show | 1:09:37 | 1:09:39 | |
will kind of implode at the National Theatre, | 1:09:39 | 1:09:43 | |
and it took me seeing it at Edinburgh to realise, no, wait a minute. | 1:09:43 | 1:09:47 | |
That audience would come to the National. | 1:09:47 | 1:09:49 | |
It was a kind of key moment for me. | 1:09:49 | 1:09:51 | |
I can get anybody I like here. Just make sure they know about it. | 1:09:51 | 1:09:55 | |
They'll come. | 1:09:55 | 1:09:56 | |
Ladies and gentlemen, I'm about to resort to violence | 1:09:58 | 1:10:02 | |
This is Hackney, and this street | 1:10:02 | 1:10:04 | |
is what the media have dubbed Murder Mile | 1:10:04 | 1:10:08 | |
due to the high incidences of gun crimes and shootings. | 1:10:08 | 1:10:12 | |
It's the world that I've chosen to set my play in, Elmina's Kitchen. | 1:10:12 | 1:10:16 | |
Want to keep on selling your little plantain burgers? Good luck to you. | 1:10:18 | 1:10:23 | |
May you always be happy. | 1:10:23 | 1:10:24 | |
Me, I'm the man. Go on. | 1:10:24 | 1:10:27 | |
You'd like that, wouldn't you? | 1:10:27 | 1:10:29 | |
You'd like me to punch your lights out | 1:10:29 | 1:10:31 | |
so you could walk street and say, | 1:10:31 | 1:10:33 | |
"See, told you my dad weren't no punk." Why would I say that? | 1:10:33 | 1:10:38 | |
You are a punk. Don't you push me. | 1:10:38 | 1:10:40 | |
It was a lilywhite institution | 1:10:41 | 1:10:44 | |
And it was an upper middle-class institution | 1:10:44 | 1:10:47 | |
and probably being | 1:10:47 | 1:10:49 | |
upper-middle-class was more daunting than it being lilywhite. | 1:10:49 | 1:10:53 | |
I came in and I think | 1:10:53 | 1:10:55 | |
I was the third show in of his reign, as it were. | 1:10:55 | 1:10:57 | |
I think my impression of the National was it was | 1:10:57 | 1:11:01 | |
the equivalent of walking into Buckingham Palace. | 1:11:01 | 1:11:05 | |
It's just this huge thing, this bastion of culture, that you | 1:11:05 | 1:11:09 | |
almost have to kind of have a degree in before we can step over the threshold. | 1:11:09 | 1:11:14 | |
It's almost an alien land. | 1:11:14 | 1:11:16 | |
Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more, | 1:11:23 | 1:11:26 | |
or close the wall up with our English dead. | 1:11:26 | 1:11:29 | |
In peace, there's nothing so becomes a man | 1:11:29 | 1:11:32 | |
as modest stillness and humility. | 1:11:32 | 1:11:34 | |
But when the blast of war blows in our ears, | 1:11:34 | 1:11:37 | |
then imitate the action of the tiger. | 1:11:37 | 1:11:40 | |
The thing I really remember is opening Nick Hytner's mail | 1:11:40 | 1:11:44 | |
and getting lots of hate letters regarding his casting | 1:11:44 | 1:11:48 | |
of a black Henry V. | 1:11:48 | 1:11:49 | |
There were letters that I was reading to him, | 1:11:49 | 1:11:52 | |
saying, you do realise, don't you, that Henry V was not black | 1:11:52 | 1:11:56 | |
and that, in fact, by staging this, | 1:11:56 | 1:11:58 | |
you are offering an insult to England | 1:11:58 | 1:12:00 | |
and to the monarchy for your pathetic artistic reasons, | 1:12:00 | 1:12:02 | |
trying to grab headlines. | 1:12:02 | 1:12:05 | |
You fought the battle, you won the battle... | 1:12:05 | 1:12:08 | |
Playing Henry V at that time, | 1:12:08 | 1:12:10 | |
the poignancy of the play suddenly really came through. | 1:12:10 | 1:12:15 | |
Especially when at some point during the run, | 1:12:15 | 1:12:19 | |
a general used the St Crispin's Day speech | 1:12:19 | 1:12:22 | |
to galvanise the troops before | 1:12:22 | 1:12:25 | |
they went on some certain exercise and that was all over the press | 1:12:25 | 1:12:29 | |
"Real Henry V takes place." | 1:12:29 | 1:12:32 | |
For he today that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother, | 1:12:32 | 1:12:36 | |
be he ne'er so base | 1:12:36 | 1:12:38 | |
and gentlemen in England now abed shall think themselves accursed | 1:12:38 | 1:12:42 | |
they were not here and hold their manhoods cheap | 1:12:42 | 1:12:45 | |
whiles any speaks that fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day! | 1:12:45 | 1:12:50 | |
We'll get through this all right. Don't you worry. Charge! | 1:12:52 | 1:12:57 | |
The National's family show in 2 07 | 1:13:00 | 1:13:03 | |
created a theatrical experience | 1:13:03 | 1:13:05 | |
that was quite unlike anything that had been seen before. | 1:13:05 | 1:13:10 | |
War Horse seemed pretty experimental at the time. | 1:13:11 | 1:13:15 | |
A book narrated in the first person by a horse | 1:13:15 | 1:13:18 | |
about his experience | 1:13:18 | 1:13:20 | |
behind the trenches in the First World War on both sides. | 1:13:20 | 1:13:24 | |
A puppet horse, doesn't speak - that feels like something that you only do | 1:13:24 | 1:13:29 | |
if you've got people on the team who are really | 1:13:29 | 1:13:32 | |
passionate about it and really driving it and that's why we did it. | 1:13:32 | 1:13:37 | |
And it completely took us by surprise. | 1:13:37 | 1:13:39 | |
Steptoe! Steptoe! What is it, Toby? | 1:13:40 | 1:13:43 | |
I saw something moving in no man s land. It's not a man, sir. It looks | 1:13:43 | 1:13:48 | |
more like a horse or a cow to me. A cow? Or a horse? | 1:13:48 | 1:13:51 | |
The first early previews in the Olivier, | 1:13:51 | 1:13:54 | |
we thought it was going to be an absolute disaster. | 1:13:54 | 1:13:57 | |
I was distraught about it. I thought it was just terrible | 1:13:57 | 1:14:01 | |
But they pulled it together. They really did. | 1:14:01 | 1:14:04 | |
The inspired combination of a South African puppet company | 1:14:09 | 1:14:13 | |
and a best-selling children's novel proved to be a winning formula | 1:14:13 | 1:14:18 | |
that gave the National its biggest hit since Amadeus | 1:14:18 | 1:14:21 | |
and became a cash cow at precisely the moment | 1:14:21 | 1:14:24 | |
that the global economy was going into meltdown. | 1:14:24 | 1:14:28 | |
War Horse has been enormously important to the recent years of the National Theatre | 1:14:30 | 1:14:36 | |
and came along at precisely the moment | 1:14:36 | 1:14:39 | |
when public funding started declining. | 1:14:39 | 1:14:41 | |
Its earnings have made up for the cuts in the Arts Council's grant. | 1:14:41 | 1:14:47 | |
And now, as War Horse will see its life play out, | 1:14:47 | 1:14:53 | |
there are other productions | 1:14:53 | 1:14:54 | |
like the Curious Incident Of The Dog In The Night-time | 1:14:54 | 1:14:57 | |
and One Man, Two Guvnors that can join it | 1:14:57 | 1:14:59 | |
to bear the burden of propping up | 1:14:59 | 1:15:01 | |
the National Theatre's finances | 1:15:01 | 1:15:03 | |
Gold! | 1:15:03 | 1:15:05 | |
'Do you believe, finally, that the National Theatre will ever be | 1:15:05 | 1:15:10 | |
'a paying proposition, that it will ever be in the black?' | 1:15:10 | 1:15:13 | |
Oh, no, of course not. Why should we think it will? If you've got. . | 1:15:13 | 1:15:17 | |
That's not wrong. | 1:15:17 | 1:15:18 | |
If you compare it with any other comparable | 1:15:18 | 1:15:21 | |
theatre organisation in the world, it's terrific value for money. | 1:15:21 | 1:15:24 | |
The Germans cannot believe | 1:15:24 | 1:15:27 | |
that we earn a pound for every pound subsidy that we get. | 1:15:27 | 1:15:31 | |
SHOUTING AND SQUEALING | 1:15:31 | 1:15:33 | |
I think the focus now has to be on how do we cope | 1:15:35 | 1:15:39 | |
with the less that we're going to get. | 1:15:39 | 1:15:42 | |
We can earn a lot of money out of War Horse | 1:15:42 | 1:15:45 | |
we can work hard to try and find more War Horses. | 1:15:45 | 1:15:49 | |
We're also going to have to go out and really make our conversation | 1:15:49 | 1:15:53 | |
even more productive than it is with philanthropists. | 1:15:53 | 1:15:57 | |
Accept my labour and long live Your Lordship. I thank you. | 1:15:57 | 1:16:03 | |
You shall hear from me anon. Go not away. | 1:16:03 | 1:16:05 | |
What have you there, my friend | 1:16:05 | 1:16:07 | |
'Would you argue for it to be given priority, for example,' | 1:16:07 | 1:16:10 | |
over hospitals and schools? I wouldn't argue that anything | 1:16:10 | 1:16:13 | |
should be given priority over hospitals or schools or houses | 1:16:13 | 1:16:16 | |
But let me point out that in Germany, it would be given priority | 1:16:16 | 1:16:19 | |
over all those three things. | 1:16:19 | 1:16:21 | |
Although just 20% of the National's running costs | 1:16:23 | 1:16:26 | |
are now paid for by the government, | 1:16:26 | 1:16:28 | |
Nick Hytner still managed to slash seat prices | 1:16:28 | 1:16:32 | |
with a combination of cheaper productions and sponsorship. | 1:16:32 | 1:16:36 | |
The Travelex programme I thought was inspired. | 1:16:37 | 1:16:40 | |
I didn't recognise the audience when I came early on in Nick's reign. | 1:16:40 | 1:16:47 | |
But I don't think anybody did. | 1:16:47 | 1:16:49 | |
She has no choice. We go to Argentina. | 1:16:49 | 1:16:52 | |
What if she refuses to accept a bargain made | 1:16:52 | 1:16:54 | |
before she was even created? Come on, use your brain! | 1:16:54 | 1:16:57 | |
'It has found not only a new audience but a new company. | 1:16:58 | 1:17:02 | |
I mean, the stars are now his stars. | 1:17:02 | 1:17:06 | |
O, what a rogue and peasant slave am I! | 1:17:08 | 1:17:11 | |
Is it not monstrous that this player here...? | 1:17:16 | 1:17:20 | |
'I can't remember the last time I went to see a play' | 1:17:20 | 1:17:24 | |
at the National Theatre when the audience wasn't full. | 1:17:24 | 1:17:28 | |
I'm not saying that's the only criterion, but it is one of them. | 1:17:28 | 1:17:33 | |
It's a popular place, | 1:17:33 | 1:17:35 | |
it's the highest standard of production in London. | 1:17:35 | 1:17:38 | |
Possibly the world. | 1:17:38 | 1:17:39 | |
Goodness knows people come to London to see what's on here. | 1:17:39 | 1:17:44 | |
'I don't think there's a better theatre centre | 1:17:50 | 1:17:53 | |
'anywhere in the world than this one. Everything that anyone wants' | 1:17:53 | 1:17:56 | |
in putting on a play from the first idea to the last performance, | 1:17:56 | 1:18:00 | |
is housed under one roof. | 1:18:00 | 1:18:01 | |
It should be open seven days a week and it should be open all day. | 1:18:01 | 1:18:05 | |
There are wonderful terraces and foyers. | 1:18:07 | 1:18:09 | |
There are places for exhibitions, for happenings. | 1:18:09 | 1:18:12 | |
It's like going to Shakespeare's Globe through the market. | 1:18:14 | 1:18:19 | |
It's all part of one living community. | 1:18:19 | 1:18:24 | |
It's not for nothing that all this is happening today, | 1:18:24 | 1:18:28 | |
and what Nick Hytner has developed, all the work in the foyers, | 1:18:28 | 1:18:33 | |
all that life around the estate which again | 1:18:33 | 1:18:37 | |
gives a new vitality and attracts a new audience. | 1:18:37 | 1:18:41 | |
SHE SINGS | 1:18:43 | 1:18:46 | |
This is one of the long dressing rooms. | 1:18:49 | 1:18:52 | |
It's where six people share one | 1:18:52 | 1:18:54 | |
I was told you were ill! I was told YOU were ill! | 1:19:03 | 1:19:07 | |
Are you? Perhaps. Are you? | 1:19:07 | 1:19:09 | |
And so we begin, as old friends do, | 1:19:09 | 1:19:11 | |
comparing our respective degrees of decrepitude. | 1:19:11 | 1:19:14 | |
They say I have a weak heart, whatever that means. | 1:19:14 | 1:19:16 | |
Oh, I have a bad heart too. | 1:19:16 | 1:19:18 | |
Sometimes I can't lift my arm to conduct. | 1:19:18 | 1:19:20 | |
Oh, well, I can do that. Can't conduct, of course. | 1:19:20 | 1:19:22 | |
The Habit Of Art is an imaginary encounter | 1:19:29 | 1:19:32 | |
between WH Auden and Benjamin Britten. | 1:19:32 | 1:19:35 | |
Nick Hytner's collaboration with Bennett is now in its 24th year | 1:19:35 | 1:19:40 | |
and Bennett himself | 1:19:40 | 1:19:41 | |
has become closely identified with the National. | 1:19:41 | 1:19:44 | |
'Alan and I have done five plays together and two movies. | 1:19:46 | 1:19:50 | |
'I think Alan is secretly' | 1:19:50 | 1:19:52 | |
a much more subversive playwright than he's often thought to be. | 1:19:52 | 1:19:56 | |
His project is always to invite the audience to be complicit | 1:19:56 | 1:20:00 | |
with the most unexpected, quite often disreputable, | 1:20:00 | 1:20:04 | |
in all conventional ways unattractive, kind of people. | 1:20:04 | 1:20:07 | |
Decay is a kind of progress. Dotty! I don't care. | 1:20:08 | 1:20:13 | |
"I don't care." "Decay is a kind of progress. | 1:20:13 | 1:20:16 | |
"Dotty!" Is it, "I don't care WHAT you say."? | 1:20:16 | 1:20:19 | |
'I automatically come to Nick with a script. | 1:20:19 | 1:20:23 | |
'I don't think of it as collaboration, really, | 1:20:23 | 1:20:25 | |
'though it is collaboration, but I think of it as' | 1:20:25 | 1:20:27 | |
slightly more like somebody showing off their homework. | 1:20:27 | 1:20:31 | |
I go to Nick and he suggests various things | 1:20:31 | 1:20:35 | |
I then take them away and some I use and some I don't | 1:20:35 | 1:20:39 | |
'You want to be reassured that it's not just very dull, that's all.' | 1:20:39 | 1:20:43 | |
I'll take you down to the drum now. | 1:20:44 | 1:20:46 | |
What's the drum? | 1:20:49 | 1:20:50 | |
It goes under the Olivier stage Turns. | 1:20:50 | 1:20:53 | |
It was amazing when, there was one show on, | 1:20:53 | 1:20:56 | |
I remember bringing my daughters here many years ago, | 1:20:56 | 1:20:59 | |
when they were younger, to see Wind In The Willows. | 1:20:59 | 1:21:02 | |
This is the drum. | 1:21:02 | 1:21:03 | |
The National's drum revolve is a huge hydraulic machine | 1:21:04 | 1:21:08 | |
five storeys high that can lift whole sets onto the stage, | 1:21:08 | 1:21:12 | |
and is the only one of its kind in the world. | 1:21:12 | 1:21:15 | |
I guess we're about 40 feet underneath the stage for the Olivier. | 1:21:15 | 1:21:20 | |
And this is a big kind of gasometer structure | 1:21:20 | 1:21:23 | |
which was part of the original design | 1:21:23 | 1:21:26 | |
about how you move scenery on a big thrust stage. | 1:21:26 | 1:21:30 | |
And it was one-off and it was built in a field in Essex, | 1:21:30 | 1:21:34 | |
and for the first...15 years of the life of the National, probably, | 1:21:34 | 1:21:40 | |
it didn't work. | 1:21:40 | 1:21:42 | |
Since when the National Theatre has regularly lavished | 1:21:42 | 1:21:45 | |
quite a bit of love on this machinery. | 1:21:45 | 1:21:48 | |
I'll show you one of the rehearsal rooms. | 1:21:50 | 1:21:53 | |
This is one of them, this is rehearsal room two. | 1:21:57 | 1:22:00 | |
We've got one exactly the same on the other side. | 1:22:00 | 1:22:03 | |
SINGING | 1:22:03 | 1:22:05 | |
The National has had some unexpected recent hits | 1:22:09 | 1:22:12 | |
with more experimental and contemporary work. | 1:22:12 | 1:22:16 | |
'When I saw it first in the rehearsal room I knew immediately, | 1:22:16 | 1:22:21 | |
'as did everybody who was watching it in rehearsal,' | 1:22:21 | 1:22:24 | |
that it was one of the best things this theatre has ever done, ever. | 1:22:24 | 1:22:26 | |
# ..17 hanging baskets in this back garden | 1:22:26 | 1:22:32 | |
# Believe it or not... # | 1:22:32 | 1:22:35 | |
London Road is set on the street | 1:22:35 | 1:22:37 | |
where Steven Wright, the Ipswich murderer, | 1:22:37 | 1:22:41 | |
and many of his victims lived and worked in 2006. | 1:22:41 | 1:22:44 | |
MUFFLED CONVERSATION | 1:22:46 | 1:22:49 | |
'The fact that it was so current was a very tricky thing.' | 1:22:51 | 1:22:55 | |
I mean, a musical about the Ipswich murders | 1:22:55 | 1:22:58 | |
is an appallingly crass idea on the face of it. | 1:22:58 | 1:23:01 | |
And of course everybody was questioning all the way through | 1:23:01 | 1:23:04 | |
whether or not this was a really terrible thing. | 1:23:04 | 1:23:07 | |
And in the end it's not about the girls | 1:23:07 | 1:23:09 | |
and it's not about Steven Wright, | 1:23:09 | 1:23:11 | |
it is about a community of English people | 1:23:11 | 1:23:13 | |
dealing with a very, very contemporary trauma. | 1:23:13 | 1:23:16 | |
# Begonias and petunias and... # | 1:23:16 | 1:23:21 | |
Rufus Norris has directed everything | 1:23:21 | 1:23:23 | |
from classics in the Olivier to musicals in the West End. | 1:23:23 | 1:23:27 | |
'I love the combination of story and music, | 1:23:27 | 1:23:31 | |
'that part of a performance or a story or a narrative | 1:23:31 | 1:23:34 | |
'that can totally bypass the intellect | 1:23:34 | 1:23:36 | |
'and get you on the level of the gut.' | 1:23:36 | 1:23:39 | |
That's what raises the hairs on the back of my neck, | 1:23:39 | 1:23:42 | |
gets my tear ducts flowing. | 1:23:42 | 1:23:43 | |
And that's why I go to the theatre, is to be moved. | 1:23:43 | 1:23:48 | |
'This is the first play that I've had at the National. | 1:23:54 | 1:23:57 | |
'I have written plays before for the Royal Court. | 1:23:57 | 1:24:00 | |
'You feel part of a much greater thing. | 1:24:00 | 1:24:03 | |
'You feel that your show' | 1:24:03 | 1:24:05 | |
is one of many shows that are on at the time | 1:24:05 | 1:24:07 | |
and for me I quite like that because it's protecting in some way. | 1:24:07 | 1:24:12 | |
You don't feel like the theatre's going to | 1:24:12 | 1:24:14 | |
make or not make their budget on the basis of what your show does. | 1:24:14 | 1:24:18 | |
And you're also surrounded by artists all the time, | 1:24:18 | 1:24:21 | |
coming and going from other shows, | 1:24:21 | 1:24:22 | |
which makes you feel part of something, which as a writer | 1:24:22 | 1:24:26 | |
which is a fairly lonely profession, has a lot of value. | 1:24:26 | 1:24:30 | |
Have you seen the polls? Yes, I have seen the polls, Walter. | 1:24:32 | 1:24:34 | |
We're in the lead in the polls Only just, nowt in it. | 1:24:34 | 1:24:37 | |
In dark times the electorate sticks with the devil it knows | 1:24:37 | 1:24:40 | |
They're only dark because you can't keep the lights on. | 1:24:40 | 1:24:43 | |
Surely the most basic test for the government | 1:24:43 | 1:24:46 | |
is you keep the blinking lights on, Jack. | 1:24:46 | 1:24:48 | |
The unlikely subject of James Graham's This House | 1:24:50 | 1:24:54 | |
is Parliament during the Labour government of 1974 to '7 - | 1:24:54 | 1:24:59 | |
a period which was traumatic for Britain and for the National itself. | 1:24:59 | 1:25:05 | |
'For me politics was never something | 1:25:05 | 1:25:08 | |
'that was really alienating or strange. | 1:25:08 | 1:25:10 | |
'I think if you're going to lock people in a room for two hours | 1:25:10 | 1:25:14 | |
and talk to them, then I feel it has to be important, | 1:25:14 | 1:25:16 | |
and I feel like you've got to leave having talked about stuff | 1:25:16 | 1:25:20 | |
and having really engaged with things that are important | 1:25:20 | 1:25:23 | |
and political issues do that. | 1:25:23 | 1:25:25 | |
I think the default position of younger writers is that maybe | 1:25:27 | 1:25:30 | |
we don't have the right or the tools to write these big political plays | 1:25:30 | 1:25:35 | |
and that we should just write small plays about our own stuff | 1:25:35 | 1:25:39 | |
and I've just never believed that's true. | 1:25:39 | 1:25:41 | |
Jack, I just want to talk about this. There's nothing I can do | 1:25:41 | 1:25:45 | |
Would you hold on a second? Christ... | 1:25:45 | 1:25:47 | |
5431 next. | 1:25:47 | 1:25:49 | |
5443 next. | 1:25:49 | 1:25:50 | |
In the last four years, the National has started to broadcast | 1:25:50 | 1:25:54 | |
its productions live into cinemas in Britain and around the world | 1:25:54 | 1:25:59 | |
Walter Harrison! I think we've got you, haven't we? | 1:25:59 | 1:26:02 | |
More than two million people | 1:26:02 | 1:26:04 | |
have now seen a National Theatre Live performance, | 1:26:04 | 1:26:07 | |
and it is vastly extending the range and size of the National's audience. | 1:26:07 | 1:26:11 | |
This is an area that people are obviously going to be | 1:26:13 | 1:26:16 | |
moving into and I think we've got to be pretty careful about this. | 1:26:16 | 1:26:19 | |
Most British independent movies open and close in a weekend | 1:26:19 | 1:26:22 | |
and are lucky if they take a couple of hundred thousand. | 1:26:22 | 1:26:25 | |
?2 million in British cinemas, that's a big opening. | 1:26:25 | 1:26:28 | |
Great. Thanks. | 1:26:28 | 1:26:30 | |
Any questions for Nick? | 1:26:30 | 1:26:31 | |
By the autumn, I suspect I will be, | 1:26:31 | 1:26:36 | |
I'll be making my last report about what's coming up in the future | 1:26:36 | 1:26:40 | |
Nick Hytner will be leaving the National in 2015 | 1:26:48 | 1:26:52 | |
after perhaps the most successful directorship in its history, | 1:26:52 | 1:26:56 | |
in which the building and the theatre | 1:26:56 | 1:26:59 | |
have begun to fulfil the dream that was shared by so many for so long | 1:26:59 | 1:27:03 | |
and which at times seemed elusive and even in jeopardy. | 1:27:03 | 1:27:07 | |
Do you know why the seats are purple? Why? | 1:27:09 | 1:27:12 | |
Because it was Laurence Olivier s favourite colour. | 1:27:12 | 1:27:15 | |
What changes would you look for in our own company? | 1:27:23 | 1:27:26 | |
I'd like better conditions, first of all. | 1:27:26 | 1:27:30 | |
Such as? A better theatre. | 1:27:30 | 1:27:33 | |
In order to increase activities | 1:27:33 | 1:27:37 | |
So that eventually, perhaps, | 1:27:37 | 1:27:40 | |
the art of the actor may finally be regarded | 1:27:40 | 1:27:45 | |
as an important part of the life of the people. | 1:27:45 | 1:27:48 | |
We'll head off back to the stage door now. | 1:27:50 | 1:27:52 | |
Don't call me a cock-up, you cock-up! | 1:27:55 | 1:27:57 | |
LAUGHTER | 1:27:59 | 1:28:00 | |
You slapped me! | 1:28:00 | 1:28:02 | |
Yes, I did, and I'm glad I did | 1:28:02 | 1:28:02 | |
'When Harley Granville-Barker and George Bernard Shaw | 1:28:02 | 1:28:04 | |
'said the British genius is for theatre, | 1:28:07 | 1:28:10 | |
'that's what the British do, that's the thing they do best | 1:28:10 | 1:28:13 | |
'and that need to be incorporated | 1:28:13 | 1:28:15 | |
'in a way which resists commercial pressures. | 1:28:15 | 1:28:18 | |
'And the story of that, through many, many people's hard work' | 1:28:18 | 1:28:22 | |
and commitment, happening, is one of the few British success stories. | 1:28:22 | 1:28:27 | |
Sit down, have a cup of tea now | 1:28:33 | 1:28:36 | |
Turn all the lights off, all the way up round the building. | 1:28:36 | 1:28:39 | |
It'll be in pitch darkness. | 1:28:39 | 1:28:41 | |
Then the others will go round the plant rooms and stuff | 1:28:41 | 1:28:44 | |
and turn all the lights off in the plant rooms, check everything is OK. | 1:28:44 | 1:28:48 | |
And car park patrols. | 1:28:48 | 1:28:51 | |
They more or less cover every inch of the building overnight, | 1:28:51 | 1:28:55 | |
make sure everything is off, | 1:28:55 | 1:28:57 | |
power down for five hours till housekeeping come in. | 1:28:57 | 1:29:00 | |
'The board of National Theatre has decided who is going to be | 1:29:07 | 1:29:11 | |
'the director of the National Theatre as of March of 2015. | 1:29:11 | 1:29:16 | |
'Their decision, I am happy to say, | 1:29:16 | 1:29:18 | |
'is one that is completely delightful to me. | 1:29:18 | 1:29:21 | |
'The next director, Rufus Norris ' | 1:29:21 | 1:29:24 | |
APPLAUSE | 1:29:24 | 1:29:25 | |
CHEERING | 1:29:31 | 1:29:33 | |
Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd | 1:29:40 | 1:29:43 |