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This programme contains some strong language | 0:00:02 | 0:00:05 | |
-# Somebody say -heh, heh, heh | 0:00:05 | 0:00:07 | |
-# Somebody sing -hello, hello, hello | 0:00:07 | 0:00:09 | |
-# Somebody say -heh, heh, heh | 0:00:09 | 0:00:12 | |
-# Somebody cry -why, why, why? | 0:00:12 | 0:00:15 | |
# Kuluman | 0:00:15 | 0:00:17 | |
# Kulumani, kulumani sizwe. # | 0:00:17 | 0:00:19 | |
Over a quarter of a century ago, | 0:00:19 | 0:00:21 | |
Paul Simon travelled to Johannesburg in South Africa to record tracks | 0:00:21 | 0:00:25 | |
with a group of township musicians for the album that would become | 0:00:25 | 0:00:29 | |
perhaps his greatest achievement - Graceland. | 0:00:29 | 0:00:32 | |
It was a project that became marred in controversy. Nelson Mandela | 0:00:32 | 0:00:37 | |
was still in prison and apartheid was very much in force in South Africa. | 0:00:37 | 0:00:40 | |
An international boycott prevented artists performing in South Africa, | 0:00:42 | 0:00:47 | |
but Simon ignored it, determined to collaborate in person | 0:00:47 | 0:00:50 | |
with the black artists whose music he loved so intensely. | 0:00:50 | 0:00:56 | |
The turbulence around Graceland followed Simon and his collaborators | 0:00:56 | 0:01:00 | |
here to London's Albert Hall, where they performed | 0:01:00 | 0:01:03 | |
in front of sold-out audiences. | 0:01:03 | 0:01:05 | |
Ladies and gentlemen, Hugh Masekela. | 0:01:07 | 0:01:09 | |
Outside, however, | 0:01:19 | 0:01:20 | |
there were angry cries and crowds of anti-apartheid protesters. | 0:01:20 | 0:01:25 | |
For me, tonight's film tells a truly remarkable story | 0:01:25 | 0:01:29 | |
about the tension between creative freedom and political responsibility. | 0:01:29 | 0:01:34 | |
Paul Simon, the curious - some might say the arrogant artist - | 0:01:34 | 0:01:38 | |
just follows his ears to South Africa, falls in love | 0:01:38 | 0:01:41 | |
with the genius of the township musicians, | 0:01:41 | 0:01:44 | |
and with the music he encounters there. | 0:01:44 | 0:01:46 | |
# Kuluman, kulumani sizwe | 0:01:46 | 0:01:49 | |
# Singenze njani | 0:01:49 | 0:01:51 | |
# Baya jabula abasi thanda Yo ho. # | 0:01:51 | 0:01:55 | |
In tonight's Imagine, | 0:01:55 | 0:01:57 | |
the filmmaker Joe Berlinger follows Simon | 0:01:57 | 0:02:00 | |
as he travels back to South Africa for an emotional reunion | 0:02:00 | 0:02:03 | |
with the musicians who played with him on Graceland and who discuss, | 0:02:03 | 0:02:07 | |
with remarkable candour, the controversy that surrounded | 0:02:07 | 0:02:10 | |
the making of what is now regarded as one of the truly great albums. | 0:02:10 | 0:02:16 | |
VINYL CRACKLES | 0:02:43 | 0:02:45 | |
FAINT APPLAUSE GROWS | 0:02:45 | 0:02:48 | |
INTRO TO: "The Boy In The Bubble" | 0:02:48 | 0:02:50 | |
A remarkable album called Graceland, by singer Paul Simon, | 0:02:56 | 0:03:00 | |
-grew out of a trip that he made to South Africa. -The Graceland album | 0:03:00 | 0:03:03 | |
started out a cross-cultural experiment. It has become | 0:03:03 | 0:03:06 | |
a worldwide hit. Five million copies have been sold so far. | 0:03:06 | 0:03:10 | |
I really wasn't thinking that Graceland was going to have | 0:03:11 | 0:03:13 | |
this kind of effect on people. I didn't think of it as anything other than a really interesting... | 0:03:13 | 0:03:18 | |
-Something you loved. -Yes, right - it was a music... Exactly. | 0:03:18 | 0:03:22 | |
But you can't miss the political side, you know. | 0:03:22 | 0:03:24 | |
Paul Simon's Graceland is a big success, | 0:03:24 | 0:03:26 | |
but it's also controversial because Simon recorded the album in South Africa | 0:03:26 | 0:03:30 | |
and critics say he should have had nothing to do with a racist country. | 0:03:30 | 0:03:33 | |
The conscience of the world must be awakened to the horror | 0:03:33 | 0:03:37 | |
of apartheid in South Africa. | 0:03:37 | 0:03:39 | |
We are calling upon all international artists | 0:03:39 | 0:03:41 | |
to stay away from our country. What made you go there? | 0:03:41 | 0:03:44 | |
I was invited there. | 0:03:44 | 0:03:46 | |
I was invited by black musicians. | 0:03:46 | 0:03:48 | |
# I'm going to Graceland | 0:03:48 | 0:03:50 | |
# Graceland | 0:03:50 | 0:03:51 | |
# Memphis Tennessee | 0:03:51 | 0:03:53 | |
# I'm going to Graceland... # | 0:03:53 | 0:03:55 | |
When the artist gets into some sort of disagreement with politics, | 0:03:55 | 0:04:00 | |
why are the politicians designated to be the ones to tell us, | 0:04:00 | 0:04:04 | |
the artists, what to do, and we're supposed to follow, otherwise | 0:04:04 | 0:04:07 | |
-we're not good citizens...? -I hear you, man. You're not allowed | 0:04:07 | 0:04:10 | |
to think, not allowed feel or have a political opinion. | 0:04:10 | 0:04:14 | |
It's nonsense, man. | 0:04:14 | 0:04:15 | |
# We will all be received in Graceland... # | 0:04:15 | 0:04:19 | |
I remember when Graceland first came out, there was some | 0:04:22 | 0:04:25 | |
controversy about it and so it was just one of those things, like... | 0:04:25 | 0:04:28 | |
Oh, well, controversy - I'm not going to buy THAT album. | 0:04:28 | 0:04:31 | |
But when I went to hear him perform | 0:04:31 | 0:04:34 | |
in a concert in Chicago, I was infected by the music. | 0:04:34 | 0:04:39 | |
# And she said losing love is like a window in your heart... # | 0:04:40 | 0:04:45 | |
Graceland was the Paul Simon record that rocked a little harder | 0:04:45 | 0:04:49 | |
than some of the ones just before that. | 0:04:49 | 0:04:51 | |
The ones just before had great songs, but this one | 0:04:51 | 0:04:53 | |
had a little bit more low-end going on. | 0:04:53 | 0:04:57 | |
# I'm going to Graceland | 0:04:57 | 0:04:58 | |
# Memphis, Tennessee I'm going to Graceland... # | 0:04:58 | 0:05:02 | |
Music is the most unifying thing I've ever seen. | 0:05:02 | 0:05:04 | |
-Cultures have been swapping information... -It's only 12 notes, man. Until God gives us 13, | 0:05:04 | 0:05:10 | |
we all got the same materials to work with for 500 years. 12 notes. | 0:05:10 | 0:05:15 | |
This is what music is. It's the voice of God, you know? | 0:05:15 | 0:05:18 | |
-Don't you think? -Yeah, I do. | 0:05:18 | 0:05:22 | |
-'Your number one news and talk station. -All right, I mentioned | 0:05:25 | 0:05:30 | |
'Paul Simon - he's currently visiting South Africa, commemorating | 0:05:30 | 0:05:34 | |
'the 25th anniversary of the release of Graceland. He plans to reunite | 0:05:34 | 0:05:38 | |
'the South African musicians involved with the original project.' | 0:05:38 | 0:05:41 | |
The last time I was here was when we played... | 0:05:41 | 0:05:44 | |
It was a long time ago. | 0:05:44 | 0:05:46 | |
It was a long time ago. | 0:05:47 | 0:05:49 | |
I expect to see a lot of changes. | 0:05:49 | 0:05:51 | |
As any place would be, after a couple of decades. | 0:05:51 | 0:05:56 | |
Anyway, we'll see. We'll see what we get. | 0:05:56 | 0:05:59 | |
# This is the story of how we begin to remember | 0:05:59 | 0:06:02 | |
# This is the powerful pulsing of love in the vein. # | 0:06:05 | 0:06:10 | |
I'm trying to imagine it's the next few days and get my focus right. | 0:06:10 | 0:06:14 | |
Going back into a rehearsal kind of frame of mind... | 0:06:14 | 0:06:18 | |
..see where everybody's at, like... | 0:06:19 | 0:06:22 | |
Thinking about Ray... | 0:06:22 | 0:06:24 | |
Well, I haven't seen Ray now since 1991. | 0:06:24 | 0:06:28 | |
Oh, man - Ray! | 0:06:28 | 0:06:30 | |
Isaac I haven't seen...even longer. | 0:06:30 | 0:06:33 | |
-Isaac! -Nice to see you! | 0:06:33 | 0:06:36 | |
Barney I haven't seen in a really long time. | 0:06:36 | 0:06:39 | |
Oh, my God! Barney's father! | 0:06:39 | 0:06:41 | |
# His path was marked | 0:06:43 | 0:06:46 | |
# By the stars in the southern hemisphere | 0:06:46 | 0:06:50 | |
# And he walked the length of his days | 0:06:50 | 0:06:53 | |
# Under African skies. # | 0:06:53 | 0:06:56 | |
'We had an intense period of time together and then we separated | 0:06:57 | 0:07:02 | |
'and went our separate ways, so we're always attached by Graceland. | 0:07:02 | 0:07:06 | |
'And now, with this reunion, we'll finally get the chance to talk about | 0:07:06 | 0:07:10 | |
'how we made the record and going on tour. That'll be interesting | 0:07:10 | 0:07:15 | |
'to me, cos it's the same event,' | 0:07:15 | 0:07:16 | |
but everybody's story is different. | 0:07:16 | 0:07:18 | |
SYNCOPATED BREATHS | 0:07:18 | 0:07:20 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:07:20 | 0:07:22 | |
Paul Simon is going to be giving - listen to this, this is exciting - | 0:07:32 | 0:07:35 | |
an exclusive and intimate performance this Thursday evening | 0:07:35 | 0:07:39 | |
in Johannesburg. | 0:07:39 | 0:07:41 | |
Paul would like to invite a few select listeners | 0:07:41 | 0:07:44 | |
to attend the event. That could be you. | 0:07:44 | 0:07:46 | |
I think all of us, we are like, "Oh, boy, this performance, man. | 0:07:54 | 0:07:59 | |
We have to get back into Graceland | 0:07:59 | 0:08:01 | |
and just do it one more time, 25 years later. | 0:08:01 | 0:08:05 | |
Here I was, living in South Africa and then | 0:08:08 | 0:08:12 | |
here comes a particular individual, called Paul Simon. | 0:08:12 | 0:08:15 | |
For me, music is the closest thing to religion. | 0:08:17 | 0:08:21 | |
And if it's utilised in the right way, it can inform | 0:08:21 | 0:08:26 | |
and bring people closer and they can find solutions to their problems. | 0:08:26 | 0:08:32 | |
And Graceland did that. | 0:08:32 | 0:08:34 | |
I've been doing music professionally since I'm 15 years old | 0:08:39 | 0:08:44 | |
and in many ways, Graceland was the most significant achievement of my career. | 0:08:44 | 0:08:49 | |
'I really think that the next generation still has a pretty deep | 0:08:50 | 0:08:53 | |
'connection to Graceland. For a lot of people my age,' | 0:08:53 | 0:08:57 | |
it was really evocative of being on like, road trips with their family | 0:08:57 | 0:09:00 | |
when they were five or six years old | 0:09:00 | 0:09:03 | |
and, for us, we have specific songs | 0:09:03 | 0:09:05 | |
where I think you can totally make the Graceland connection. | 0:09:05 | 0:09:09 | |
My perspective is that what Paul Simon was doing | 0:09:12 | 0:09:16 | |
had a beauty to it | 0:09:16 | 0:09:17 | |
and he had a great idea, a creative idea, | 0:09:17 | 0:09:20 | |
to mix his music and his rhythms and his ingenuity with some | 0:09:20 | 0:09:25 | |
that he had found in South Africa. | 0:09:25 | 0:09:27 | |
But at that moment in time... | 0:09:27 | 0:09:31 | |
..it was not... | 0:09:32 | 0:09:34 | |
..helpful. | 0:09:35 | 0:09:37 | |
There was this inconvenient thing called apartheid. | 0:09:39 | 0:09:42 | |
It got in the way. | 0:09:42 | 0:09:44 | |
Apartheid was a system made to divide the people of South Africa | 0:09:45 | 0:09:50 | |
on the basis of colour of skin. | 0:09:50 | 0:09:53 | |
The white South Africans | 0:09:53 | 0:09:55 | |
were dominating everything | 0:09:55 | 0:09:57 | |
under protection by law | 0:09:57 | 0:09:58 | |
and the whole apartheid system | 0:09:58 | 0:10:01 | |
intentionally, deliberately set out to prove | 0:10:01 | 0:10:05 | |
that black people were most inferior beings on Earth. | 0:10:05 | 0:10:08 | |
And people of South Africa did not take this lying down | 0:10:08 | 0:10:12 | |
and we fought. | 0:10:12 | 0:10:13 | |
We were fighting for our land, for our identity - | 0:10:13 | 0:10:18 | |
we had a job to do. And it was a serious job. | 0:10:18 | 0:10:21 | |
And we saw Paul Simon coming | 0:10:21 | 0:10:24 | |
as a threat and we saw it as an issue, | 0:10:24 | 0:10:28 | |
because it was not sanctioned | 0:10:28 | 0:10:31 | |
as we saw it, by the liberation movement | 0:10:31 | 0:10:33 | |
and the situation was not about Paul Simon, it was about | 0:10:33 | 0:10:37 | |
the liberation of the people of South Africa. | 0:10:37 | 0:10:40 | |
The criticism and the attacks on the album and on me | 0:10:42 | 0:10:46 | |
was very hurtful. And, er... | 0:10:46 | 0:10:48 | |
I don't really know what the internal debate was here. | 0:10:48 | 0:10:53 | |
I mean, I know what the result was. | 0:10:55 | 0:10:57 | |
But I don't know who said what and why. | 0:10:57 | 0:11:00 | |
From the South African side of things, | 0:11:02 | 0:11:04 | |
there's a lot that I don't know. A lot. | 0:11:04 | 0:11:07 | |
So, I was just thinking to myself, it's a bit surreal, | 0:11:10 | 0:11:13 | |
what's going on here, because the first time I saw you, it was on an album cover! | 0:11:13 | 0:11:17 | |
We didn't meet, but we had that sort of relationship | 0:11:17 | 0:11:20 | |
-over the cultural boycott... -Right. -And here you are, 25 years later. | 0:11:20 | 0:11:26 | |
I know you are a brilliant artist. | 0:11:26 | 0:11:28 | |
I've respected you all my life. | 0:11:28 | 0:11:30 | |
I know that you had no malintent in going and I do think | 0:11:30 | 0:11:34 | |
it's regrettable, that with the brilliance of what you did with these musicians, | 0:11:34 | 0:11:41 | |
there was this conflagration around it on a political level. | 0:11:41 | 0:11:47 | |
Well, this misunderstanding is really unfortunate | 0:11:47 | 0:11:50 | |
and it's been on my mind for all this time, | 0:11:50 | 0:11:54 | |
so I'll tell you my story, | 0:11:54 | 0:11:56 | |
then you tell me your story! | 0:11:56 | 0:11:59 | |
I was given a cassette... It was called Accordion Jive Hits, | 0:12:01 | 0:12:07 | |
by the Boyoyo Boys. | 0:12:07 | 0:12:09 | |
I used to play this tape all the time and... | 0:12:10 | 0:12:14 | |
after about three weeks of it, I said, you know, | 0:12:14 | 0:12:16 | |
this is my favourite music. | 0:12:16 | 0:12:18 | |
I'm not interested in listening to anything else. | 0:12:18 | 0:12:22 | |
I found out that it came from South Africa, so I asked my record label, | 0:12:22 | 0:12:27 | |
do we know anybody in South Africa? | 0:12:27 | 0:12:29 | |
They said yes, this producer, Hilton Rosenthal. | 0:12:29 | 0:12:33 | |
I had the call from Paul Simon and he said | 0:12:36 | 0:12:38 | |
that one of the cuts | 0:12:38 | 0:12:40 | |
on side two, I think, was called Gumboots... | 0:12:40 | 0:12:43 | |
And could I do some research? | 0:12:43 | 0:12:45 | |
I asked Paul at that time what he wanted to do with the song. | 0:12:45 | 0:12:48 | |
He said he had written some lyrics and he wasn't sure what | 0:12:48 | 0:12:51 | |
he was going to do, but that he just wanted to record the song. | 0:12:51 | 0:12:54 | |
Paul put the cassette in, played this thing and he sang and I said | 0:13:08 | 0:13:11 | |
to him, you know, you can just do that here in New York, | 0:13:11 | 0:13:16 | |
just get a couple of great players and, you know... You've got the | 0:13:16 | 0:13:19 | |
instrumentation, players can certainly do that. He looked at me, | 0:13:19 | 0:13:22 | |
like... "What?" He said, "No, no, no, no. I'm going down there." | 0:13:22 | 0:13:28 | |
I really wanted to do that music. But I was very aware of what was going on politically | 0:13:31 | 0:13:36 | |
in South Africa, | 0:13:36 | 0:13:38 | |
so I called up Harry Belafonte and, who I've known for many, many years. | 0:13:38 | 0:13:45 | |
When I spoke to Paul, I said... | 0:13:45 | 0:13:47 | |
I think it's great that you're going, | 0:13:47 | 0:13:49 | |
I think you should just let the ANC know, let Oliver Tambo | 0:13:49 | 0:13:53 | |
and the leadership know. | 0:13:53 | 0:13:55 | |
The ANC - the African National Congress - | 0:13:55 | 0:13:59 | |
was the voice of black South Africans. I can introduce you | 0:13:59 | 0:14:03 | |
to the powers that prevail, to let them know what you're doing | 0:14:03 | 0:14:08 | |
so you can have all the necessary... passes on it. | 0:14:08 | 0:14:13 | |
And I saw right then and there that Paul resisted the idea. | 0:14:13 | 0:14:19 | |
Paul, as I recall, declared that the power of art and the voice of | 0:14:19 | 0:14:23 | |
the artist was supreme and that to go to any one group or another | 0:14:23 | 0:14:30 | |
for whatever reason, to beg the right to passage was against his instinct. | 0:14:30 | 0:14:35 | |
It was an adventure that seemed irresistible to me. | 0:14:38 | 0:14:43 | |
And, of course, I was fascinated and intimidated by the fact that | 0:14:43 | 0:14:49 | |
I'm coming to South Africa. | 0:14:49 | 0:14:51 | |
Er... | 0:14:52 | 0:14:54 | |
And I didn't tell Harry, you know. | 0:14:54 | 0:14:57 | |
Which I probably shoulda done. | 0:14:58 | 0:15:00 | |
Except, it's like your dad, you know, when your dad says, | 0:15:00 | 0:15:02 | |
"don't take the car", but you really have a date that you really want | 0:15:02 | 0:15:05 | |
-to go on... You decide you're going to take the car anyway. -Mm. | 0:15:05 | 0:15:08 | |
HUM OF PLANE ENGINE | 0:15:08 | 0:15:10 | |
So I came with my engineer and... | 0:15:16 | 0:15:19 | |
I was immediately struck by the extreme racial tension. | 0:15:19 | 0:15:23 | |
Coming from a country that WAS racially tense, | 0:15:23 | 0:15:28 | |
I was absolutely unprepared for... what it felt like in the air. | 0:15:28 | 0:15:34 | |
The law of the land was apartheid. Mandela was still in jail. | 0:15:34 | 0:15:39 | |
De Klerk was the president. | 0:15:39 | 0:15:42 | |
I was uncomfortable. | 0:15:42 | 0:15:44 | |
But, we got into the studio and began to record with this group | 0:15:46 | 0:15:49 | |
called Tau Ea Matsekha. | 0:15:49 | 0:15:51 | |
It was very exciting to see these South African groups come in. | 0:15:52 | 0:15:57 | |
I was already familiar with their records. | 0:15:57 | 0:16:00 | |
There was this accordion player named Forere and he didn't know | 0:16:00 | 0:16:03 | |
who I was, he didn't speak English, but our interaction | 0:16:03 | 0:16:07 | |
was really interesting, because you'd give him a signal | 0:16:07 | 0:16:10 | |
and say go and he'd just start to play. | 0:16:10 | 0:16:13 | |
Stand by, here we go. | 0:16:13 | 0:16:15 | |
And then everyone would fall in behind him. | 0:16:16 | 0:16:20 | |
He was playing a melody on the accordion that I wanted him to play | 0:16:34 | 0:16:37 | |
and we got a really great sound. It was kind of | 0:16:37 | 0:16:40 | |
all over the place and needed to be edited and changed around... | 0:16:40 | 0:16:44 | |
When we started jamming in the studio with Paul, | 0:16:44 | 0:16:49 | |
I didn't know him. I saw this guy with... With cowboy boots, you know? | 0:16:49 | 0:16:54 | |
And I was kind of asking myself, "what is this guy trying to do?" | 0:16:54 | 0:16:57 | |
because he's trying to, you know, fuse pop music, plus African music. | 0:16:57 | 0:17:03 | |
The first day, the feeling in the room was little strained. | 0:17:05 | 0:17:10 | |
That's what I sensed. | 0:17:10 | 0:17:12 | |
They're very shy. "Am I doing the right thing?" | 0:17:12 | 0:17:16 | |
And it was really something to see them change | 0:17:16 | 0:17:20 | |
during the course of the session. | 0:17:20 | 0:17:22 | |
All of a sudden, we're a bunch of musicians in this room, having fun. | 0:17:22 | 0:17:27 | |
Bakithi played the fretless bass and when he plays a groove, | 0:17:34 | 0:17:38 | |
the guy lights up. You know? He just lights up. | 0:17:38 | 0:17:41 | |
It's incredible. And his intonation and his articulation was phenomenal. | 0:17:41 | 0:17:47 | |
I was just working as a mechanic and then one day, I got this call | 0:17:48 | 0:17:53 | |
from the boss and he said, "Hey, Paul Simon is in town", you know? | 0:17:53 | 0:17:57 | |
"He's looking for some musicians" and I said Paul Simon? | 0:17:57 | 0:18:00 | |
Who is Paul Simon? | 0:18:00 | 0:18:02 | |
I mean, I had no idea and then the guy tried to explain | 0:18:02 | 0:18:05 | |
to me, singing all the songs, like the songs from Simon and Garfunkel | 0:18:05 | 0:18:09 | |
and I'm like... It doesn't ring a bell! | 0:18:09 | 0:18:12 | |
And then I take my bass and I go to the studio and so I meet Paul | 0:18:15 | 0:18:19 | |
and Roy Halee the engineer and they're like, hey, man - you know - let's play some grooves! | 0:18:19 | 0:18:25 | |
Every groove we play, Paul just love it and then he will stop | 0:18:26 | 0:18:31 | |
and change it, but we didn't know, I mean... Why? The groove is so good, | 0:18:31 | 0:18:35 | |
why is he changing? But he needed another part that we didn't know. | 0:18:35 | 0:18:39 | |
Then he'll break and give us different chords | 0:18:39 | 0:18:42 | |
and then we learn different things | 0:18:42 | 0:18:45 | |
and it was like going back to music school. | 0:18:45 | 0:18:48 | |
The initial recording sessions in Johannesburg | 0:18:50 | 0:18:52 | |
were planned pretty quietly. | 0:18:52 | 0:18:55 | |
I contacted the representatives of the groups that Paul | 0:18:55 | 0:18:59 | |
wanted to work with, including producer Koloi Lebona. | 0:18:59 | 0:19:03 | |
Hilton said could you organise the musicians | 0:19:03 | 0:19:07 | |
that would play on the session? | 0:19:07 | 0:19:10 | |
So I brought Bakithi Kumalo, | 0:19:10 | 0:19:14 | |
I brought Vusi Khumalo, the drummer, | 0:19:14 | 0:19:16 | |
and I brought Forere, who plays piano accordion. | 0:19:16 | 0:19:20 | |
What attracted me was the way Forere combines what his left hand | 0:19:22 | 0:19:27 | |
and his right hand is playing on the accordion | 0:19:27 | 0:19:30 | |
and I think that's exactly what drew Paul Simon | 0:19:30 | 0:19:32 | |
to be, like, entranced with this music. | 0:19:32 | 0:19:35 | |
HE SINGS | 0:19:41 | 0:19:44 | |
We are at the house of the piano accordion player, Forere Motloheloa. | 0:19:47 | 0:19:52 | |
We've come here to fetch him | 0:19:53 | 0:19:54 | |
for this Graceland reunion project. | 0:19:54 | 0:19:58 | |
This was the original melody that Paul Simon turned into | 0:19:58 | 0:20:02 | |
"Boy In The Bubble", yes? | 0:20:02 | 0:20:03 | |
And what he say is that he's paying tribute to a beautiful woman | 0:20:03 | 0:20:08 | |
that he has found and that he's happy with. | 0:20:08 | 0:20:11 | |
He says the solitude of the place combined with the landscape | 0:20:15 | 0:20:20 | |
gives him so much time to think of beautiful things | 0:20:20 | 0:20:24 | |
that he then translates into the music. | 0:20:24 | 0:20:26 | |
When Forere came to me, he was working in the mines. | 0:20:28 | 0:20:33 | |
The way he plays a piano accordion is the voicing - | 0:20:33 | 0:20:37 | |
how he's adapting it to suit the traditional Basotho melodies | 0:20:37 | 0:20:42 | |
and that's what led to the birth of Boy In The Bubble. | 0:20:42 | 0:20:46 | |
WOMAN ULLULATES | 0:20:46 | 0:20:49 | |
INTRO TO "Boy In The Bubble" | 0:20:49 | 0:20:53 | |
Do you think it'd be interesting to hear him sing HIS song? | 0:21:01 | 0:21:05 | |
-We'll see if we can combine the two songs. -So he begins, it's a verse form. | 0:21:05 | 0:21:10 | |
I answer, verse form. He comes back, verse form. | 0:21:10 | 0:21:14 | |
-HE TRANSLATES -After that, | 0:21:14 | 0:21:16 | |
we'll go to the chorus again - he sings again and I sing against him. | 0:21:16 | 0:21:22 | |
This is the way it happened for me. This is what happened in the studio. | 0:21:23 | 0:21:27 | |
Somebody would play and I'd say that's good, let's do that | 0:21:27 | 0:21:30 | |
then let's go here, then let's go there, then let's do this... | 0:21:30 | 0:21:33 | |
Oh, no - then Bakithi, you play here... Let's try it again and let's do it this way. | 0:21:33 | 0:21:38 | |
Trial and error. So we'll try it now, see how many errors we make(!) | 0:21:38 | 0:21:43 | |
# It was a slow day The sun was beating on the soldiers | 0:21:43 | 0:21:47 | |
# By the side of the road | 0:21:47 | 0:21:49 | |
# A bright light A shattering of shop windows | 0:21:50 | 0:21:54 | |
# The bomb in the baby carriage was wired to the radio... # | 0:21:54 | 0:21:57 | |
FORERE SINGS HIS OWN LYRICS | 0:21:57 | 0:22:00 | |
When Paul Simon was in South Africa | 0:22:08 | 0:22:10 | |
in 1985, it was at a moment | 0:22:10 | 0:22:13 | |
of high struggle. | 0:22:13 | 0:22:15 | |
The apartheid regime were at their most vicious. | 0:22:15 | 0:22:18 | |
GUNSHOTS | 0:22:18 | 0:22:20 | |
It was very scary. | 0:22:20 | 0:22:21 | |
I was just a kid growing up there, | 0:22:21 | 0:22:23 | |
but I had no idea why there was so much problem | 0:22:23 | 0:22:27 | |
and people are running, the cops, they come in the middle of the night, counting people. | 0:22:27 | 0:22:31 | |
There was a point some time where I couldn't eat for two days because there was no food. | 0:22:31 | 0:22:36 | |
My parents, they didn't know where they'd get the food | 0:22:36 | 0:22:39 | |
the next day, so you've just got to hang in there. | 0:22:39 | 0:22:42 | |
Because the apartheid regime were at their most vicious, | 0:22:42 | 0:22:45 | |
we had to ensure that by all means necessary, they are isolated. | 0:22:45 | 0:22:49 | |
The General Assembly of the United Nations | 0:22:49 | 0:22:52 | |
called for economic sanctions | 0:22:52 | 0:22:54 | |
oil embargo, sports boycott | 0:22:54 | 0:22:56 | |
and cultural boycott of South Africa. | 0:22:56 | 0:22:59 | |
Part of the cultural boycott was to call on all people | 0:22:59 | 0:23:04 | |
who are engaged in cultural activities | 0:23:04 | 0:23:07 | |
not to cooperate with South Africa. | 0:23:07 | 0:23:09 | |
What would the ANC hope that artists of other nations might do to help? | 0:23:09 | 0:23:12 | |
I think firstly, we'd like them to obey the cultural boycott | 0:23:12 | 0:23:16 | |
of South Africa to the letter. | 0:23:16 | 0:23:18 | |
We had been saying to artists all over the world, | 0:23:18 | 0:23:21 | |
at this point in the history of South Africa, | 0:23:21 | 0:23:25 | |
the expression of your support must be non-participatory. | 0:23:25 | 0:23:31 | |
You can't go there. | 0:23:32 | 0:23:33 | |
The way in which you interact with other peoples | 0:23:33 | 0:23:36 | |
is on a free basis, between free people. | 0:23:36 | 0:23:39 | |
I remember talking about the issue of Paul Simon, that I did not think | 0:23:41 | 0:23:46 | |
that it was correct for him to come. | 0:23:46 | 0:23:47 | |
# The way we look to a distant constellation | 0:23:49 | 0:23:51 | |
# That's dying in the corner of the sky... # | 0:23:51 | 0:23:54 | |
When I brought musicians to the Graceland session, | 0:23:54 | 0:23:58 | |
I was patently aware | 0:23:58 | 0:23:59 | |
at the time that there was a cultural boycott. | 0:23:59 | 0:24:02 | |
It was risky, but our music is always regarded as like Third World music | 0:24:02 | 0:24:08 | |
and I thought, | 0:24:08 | 0:24:10 | |
if our music gets a chance to be part of mainstream music, | 0:24:10 | 0:24:15 | |
surely that can't do any harm? So, when Paul Simon came, | 0:24:15 | 0:24:19 | |
I deliberately...withheld | 0:24:19 | 0:24:22 | |
some of the risks involved in doing this thing. | 0:24:22 | 0:24:27 | |
I thought, what the heck? | 0:24:27 | 0:24:29 | |
This is a chance in a million, we must do this. | 0:24:29 | 0:24:33 | |
HE SINGS | 0:24:33 | 0:24:36 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:24:41 | 0:24:43 | |
That's it. | 0:24:46 | 0:24:47 | |
# She looked me over I guess she thought I was all right | 0:24:58 | 0:25:02 | |
# All right in a sort of a limited way for an off night | 0:25:02 | 0:25:05 | |
# She said, "Don't I know you from the cinematographer's party?" | 0:25:05 | 0:25:09 | |
# I said who am I to blow against the wind? | 0:25:09 | 0:25:13 | |
# I know what I know I'll sing what I said | 0:25:13 | 0:25:16 | |
# We come and we go... # | 0:25:16 | 0:25:19 | |
This song was originally recorded with the General Shirinda | 0:25:19 | 0:25:22 | |
-and the Gaza Sisters. They're Shangaan. -The Shangaan sound was electric guitar-based, | 0:25:22 | 0:25:28 | |
with a pop band around it and some very strange - | 0:25:28 | 0:25:30 | |
to Western ears, anyway - | 0:25:30 | 0:25:32 | |
strange sounds of the female vocalists | 0:25:32 | 0:25:35 | |
doing a wailing sound in the background. | 0:25:35 | 0:25:38 | |
# Ooooh! # | 0:25:38 | 0:25:40 | |
It's different, because it's like... | 0:25:40 | 0:25:42 | |
you're singing out of tune sometimes, | 0:25:42 | 0:25:45 | |
but that is how it should sound like, you understand? | 0:25:45 | 0:25:48 | |
When General Shirinda came into the studio, they came in with | 0:26:00 | 0:26:04 | |
the whole family - mothers and children... | 0:26:04 | 0:26:07 | |
It was like a party. | 0:26:08 | 0:26:10 | |
I was in South Africa for a very short time - like, maybe ten | 0:26:23 | 0:26:26 | |
or 12 days - recording frantically, and it was exhilarating. | 0:26:26 | 0:26:31 | |
It was really amazing. | 0:26:31 | 0:26:32 | |
The album that preceded Graceland, Hearts And Bones, | 0:26:35 | 0:26:39 | |
was a relative commercial failure and my reaction to that, | 0:26:39 | 0:26:44 | |
rather than thinking, "Oh, I'm dead," | 0:26:44 | 0:26:47 | |
my reaction to that was, "Well, good - | 0:26:47 | 0:26:50 | |
"the next time I make a record, | 0:26:50 | 0:26:52 | |
"nobody will be looking over my shoulder," | 0:26:52 | 0:26:54 | |
which is what they do, what they had been doing for years and years. | 0:26:54 | 0:26:58 | |
"What's the hit on this album? What's it going to be?" | 0:26:58 | 0:27:00 | |
Because I had an unbroken string of hits from Simon and Garfunkel | 0:27:00 | 0:27:05 | |
up until Hearts And Bones. So, that was in my mind when I went | 0:27:05 | 0:27:09 | |
to South Africa. Well, I can do whatever I want here | 0:27:09 | 0:27:12 | |
and I'm not going to get calls from the record company every week | 0:27:12 | 0:27:16 | |
saying "how's it going" or "can you send us something, we're dying to hear it?" | 0:27:16 | 0:27:20 | |
They just...you know, left me alone, and that was good. | 0:27:20 | 0:27:24 | |
With those groups that I knew, like General Shirinda and the Gaza Sisters, | 0:27:30 | 0:27:35 | |
I really had a clear idea of what I really liked | 0:27:35 | 0:27:39 | |
and what I wanted to record. Some of those songs, where... | 0:27:39 | 0:27:43 | |
there's co-writing, | 0:27:43 | 0:27:44 | |
that's because they were based on tracks that I had heard | 0:27:44 | 0:27:49 | |
and I could point to their record and say can you play this, | 0:27:49 | 0:27:52 | |
but change it a little bit here? And whatever writing was shared, | 0:27:52 | 0:27:56 | |
we would share the credit and share the royalties. | 0:27:56 | 0:28:00 | |
I thought about writing political songs about the situation, | 0:28:00 | 0:28:05 | |
but I'm not actually very good at it. Here's an interesting thing - | 0:28:05 | 0:28:09 | |
when I recorded with General Shirinda a song that became | 0:28:09 | 0:28:13 | |
I Know What I Know, I asked him, what that's about? | 0:28:13 | 0:28:18 | |
And he said, "You know, it's about... | 0:28:18 | 0:28:21 | |
"Remember the '60s when girls wore really short skirts? | 0:28:21 | 0:28:26 | |
"Wasn't that great?" | 0:28:26 | 0:28:27 | |
That's what it was about. | 0:28:28 | 0:28:31 | |
So...I said, you know... They aren't making up political music. | 0:28:31 | 0:28:36 | |
They're making up pop music. | 0:28:37 | 0:28:39 | |
These songs are pop music. | 0:28:39 | 0:28:41 | |
What of the other verse, about the chicken...? | 0:28:52 | 0:28:56 | |
Oh, the other one... It says... | 0:28:56 | 0:28:58 | |
HE SINGS | 0:28:58 | 0:29:01 | |
It means... Slaughter an owl... | 0:29:01 | 0:29:05 | |
..because there's no chicken | 0:29:06 | 0:29:08 | |
and you cut the head and throw it away. | 0:29:08 | 0:29:11 | |
The body will look like a chicken, so don't worry, | 0:29:11 | 0:29:14 | |
we will eat it in the train! | 0:29:14 | 0:29:16 | |
We'll eat it on the train. It'll look like a chicken. | 0:29:16 | 0:29:20 | |
Cut off the head of the owl, | 0:29:20 | 0:29:22 | |
it'll look like a chicken. | 0:29:22 | 0:29:24 | |
Then, you know... Nobody will know, we'll eat it on the train(!) | 0:29:24 | 0:29:28 | |
That's what it meant. | 0:29:28 | 0:29:29 | |
So I realised that instead of writing a song like Biko, | 0:29:32 | 0:29:37 | |
the Peter Gabriel song - which I love - in fact, I recorded it. | 0:29:37 | 0:29:40 | |
That is a great example of a political song. | 0:29:40 | 0:29:43 | |
My idea was... They play their best, I'm going to play my best. | 0:29:43 | 0:29:47 | |
I'm going to give them my best shot. I didn't come in here | 0:29:47 | 0:29:50 | |
promising to do anything other than to make a really great record. | 0:29:50 | 0:29:54 | |
They didn't say, "Come in here and tell our story". | 0:29:54 | 0:29:57 | |
They just said, "Yeah, you can come in and we'll play with you". | 0:29:57 | 0:30:01 | |
# I know what I know | 0:30:01 | 0:30:03 | |
# I'll sing what I sing | 0:30:03 | 0:30:04 | |
# We come and we go | 0:30:04 | 0:30:06 | |
# That's a thing that I keep in the back of my head | 0:30:06 | 0:30:09 | |
# Whoo whoo whoo whoo | 0:30:09 | 0:30:11 | |
# Whoo whoo whoo! # | 0:30:11 | 0:30:14 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:30:20 | 0:30:22 | |
The sessions were great. But the racial tension in South Africa | 0:30:22 | 0:30:26 | |
was at such a level that it was palpable, even in the studio. | 0:30:26 | 0:30:31 | |
Here's a kind of an example of what it was like. The Boyoyo Boys | 0:30:31 | 0:30:35 | |
came into the studio and I said you know, play this and they couldn't | 0:30:35 | 0:30:39 | |
play it and when they came back the next day, they still couldn't play. | 0:30:39 | 0:30:45 | |
And I'm really frustrated - this is terrible, you know? | 0:30:45 | 0:30:47 | |
And...one of the white engineers, or assistant engineers said, | 0:30:47 | 0:30:53 | |
"Well, now you see what we're talking about here? This is what with talking about." | 0:30:53 | 0:30:58 | |
You know? I mean... "They can't do it. | 0:30:58 | 0:31:01 | |
"They tell you they can, but they can't do it." | 0:31:01 | 0:31:04 | |
It WAS a racist comment. | 0:31:04 | 0:31:05 | |
Did it bother me? It stunned me. | 0:31:06 | 0:31:09 | |
You know? Er... | 0:31:09 | 0:31:12 | |
I didn't know. | 0:31:12 | 0:31:14 | |
The epiphany comes from the next day, when Ray Phiri comes in. | 0:31:16 | 0:31:21 | |
Ray comes in with his band, which was probably the top band | 0:31:21 | 0:31:27 | |
in South Africa - it was called Stimela | 0:31:27 | 0:31:30 | |
and the drummer was Isaac Mtshali. | 0:31:30 | 0:31:32 | |
So they came in and I was playing with them and said, | 0:31:32 | 0:31:35 | |
"well, that's good. Why don't we do that?" | 0:31:35 | 0:31:38 | |
He said, "I can do that and then... | 0:31:38 | 0:31:40 | |
"Then I'll overdub another part on top of it". | 0:31:40 | 0:31:44 | |
And I'm still thinking about the Boyoyo boys, so I say, "Yeah, yeah, | 0:31:44 | 0:31:48 | |
"just get THAT and I'll be happy", you know? | 0:31:48 | 0:31:51 | |
So... He does, he gets it, and I think, "Well, that's pretty good." | 0:31:52 | 0:31:56 | |
He says, "Let me do the overdub now." | 0:31:56 | 0:31:59 | |
So I say, "Yeah, OK, go ahead, try it." | 0:31:59 | 0:32:03 | |
And it's...great. | 0:32:03 | 0:32:05 | |
And suddenly I realise, you know, the guy's brilliant. | 0:32:05 | 0:32:09 | |
I was ready to buy into the... into the racist thing. | 0:32:09 | 0:32:13 | |
You know, they fed it to me. They give it to you, you know? | 0:32:13 | 0:32:19 | |
So...you get a big South African... | 0:32:19 | 0:32:22 | |
lesson. | 0:32:22 | 0:32:24 | |
'We were all just meeting for the first time. | 0:32:26 | 0:32:29 | |
'They didn't know my political beliefs and I didn't know theirs. | 0:32:29 | 0:32:33 | |
'I knew that Stimela was a number-one group, | 0:32:33 | 0:32:35 | |
'but I didn't know that they were known as a group | 0:32:35 | 0:32:39 | |
'that was provocative to the police.' | 0:32:39 | 0:32:42 | |
Sometimes, at the gig, the police are waiting for us. | 0:32:42 | 0:32:48 | |
They say, "Where are those Stimelas? | 0:32:48 | 0:32:50 | |
"We want those Stimelas. Where are they?" | 0:32:50 | 0:32:53 | |
They come with this teargas and they put teargas all over the place, | 0:32:56 | 0:33:00 | |
people went like this. | 0:33:00 | 0:33:01 | |
I'm not afraid. If I have to die, and I die onstage, | 0:33:04 | 0:33:08 | |
I'll be the happiest. | 0:33:08 | 0:33:10 | |
But if I have to die on the street when somebody does that, | 0:33:10 | 0:33:13 | |
that would be cowardly. | 0:33:13 | 0:33:15 | |
As a musician, I could see that things are bad, | 0:33:16 | 0:33:20 | |
but we keep on... singing the song, man. | 0:33:20 | 0:33:23 | |
You know? | 0:33:23 | 0:33:25 | |
MUSIC: Intro to "You Can Call Me Al" | 0:33:25 | 0:33:27 | |
One day Ray started playing the riff... | 0:33:27 | 0:33:29 | |
Bwee-dap-bap-bap, bwee-dap-bap-bap. | 0:33:29 | 0:33:31 | |
After we recorded the backing track, | 0:33:38 | 0:33:40 | |
next morning I picked Paul up on the way to the studio | 0:33:40 | 0:33:44 | |
and I said to him, "I have a feeling that yesterday | 0:33:44 | 0:33:47 | |
"at least one of the hits from this album was recorded." | 0:33:47 | 0:33:50 | |
# If you be my bodyguard, I could be your long-lost pal | 0:33:50 | 0:33:56 | |
# I can call you Betty | 0:33:58 | 0:34:00 | |
# Betty, when you call me you can... | 0:34:00 | 0:34:03 | |
-AUDIENCE: -# Call me Al | 0:34:03 | 0:34:05 | |
# Call me Al... # | 0:34:05 | 0:34:08 | |
-Let me tell you my story. -Good. | 0:34:09 | 0:34:12 | |
Um... I had been in exile for a while, | 0:34:12 | 0:34:15 | |
and, um, I went to live in England. | 0:34:15 | 0:34:19 | |
These people were hunting my father, Oliver Tambo, as a terrorist. | 0:34:19 | 0:34:23 | |
As the president of the ANC, he was an icon of human rights | 0:34:23 | 0:34:26 | |
and I grew up surrounded by revolutionaries. | 0:34:26 | 0:34:30 | |
Our home was a hub for all exiles, so I met a lot of people in that time | 0:34:30 | 0:34:35 | |
who showed me that this was actually a united struggle. | 0:34:35 | 0:34:40 | |
And we formed Artists Against Apartheid to enforce | 0:34:40 | 0:34:43 | |
-this cultural boycott. -Mm-hm. | 0:34:43 | 0:34:45 | |
Because we genuinely felt that if you go there | 0:34:45 | 0:34:49 | |
you become part of apartheid's attempt to gain international legitimacy | 0:34:49 | 0:34:56 | |
and pull itself out of the sanctions that was gripping the country. | 0:34:56 | 0:35:00 | |
And so, when you came to South Africa, | 0:35:00 | 0:35:03 | |
it wasn't the ideal form of cultural exchange. | 0:35:03 | 0:35:07 | |
-They weren't free people, Paul, and... -Then why did they say, "Come"? | 0:35:07 | 0:35:13 | |
-Well... -Do you think they were all selfish that they did it? | 0:35:13 | 0:35:16 | |
-For three times union scale? -Yeah, I think if you went anywhere in the world | 0:35:16 | 0:35:20 | |
and you said, "Paul Simon wants to perform with you," | 0:35:20 | 0:35:23 | |
people would pretty much say, "Yes, I'll do that." | 0:35:23 | 0:35:25 | |
Yes, but I treated them as equals, they treated me as equals. | 0:35:25 | 0:35:30 | |
We treated each other as musicians. | 0:35:30 | 0:35:33 | |
We didn't have anything to do with colour, race. | 0:35:33 | 0:35:38 | |
It was purely music, and it wasn't lost on any of them | 0:35:38 | 0:35:42 | |
-because here I come back 25 years later and those people are my dear friends. -Mm. | 0:35:42 | 0:35:47 | |
-Joseph! -Hey! -Ah, my brother! -Where is my hug? | 0:35:47 | 0:35:52 | |
You come back with it. Ahhh! | 0:35:52 | 0:35:55 | |
'It was very special to work with Paul Simon,' | 0:35:55 | 0:35:59 | |
because, many, many years, | 0:35:59 | 0:36:02 | |
it was very, very difficult to work together with a white person. | 0:36:02 | 0:36:06 | |
But when we started to work with Paul Simon we didn't see a difference. | 0:36:07 | 0:36:11 | |
We didn't see that he's white or I'm black, I just see him as my brother. | 0:36:11 | 0:36:16 | |
-You good? -Do it again. -Do it again? I would do it for ever. -Yeah! | 0:36:16 | 0:36:23 | |
-I'm so glad to see you, my friend. -Oh, thank you so much. | 0:36:23 | 0:36:27 | |
'Joseph Shabalala from Ladysmith Black Mambazo came into the studio,' | 0:36:27 | 0:36:30 | |
and that's the group that I knew from a British documentary called The Rhythm Of Resistance. | 0:36:30 | 0:36:36 | |
-PRESENTER: -In townships outside the white cities, | 0:36:36 | 0:36:38 | |
music happens everywhere. | 0:36:38 | 0:36:40 | |
The Ladysmith Black Mambazo are a group who've found | 0:36:40 | 0:36:42 | |
exceptional commercial success. | 0:36:42 | 0:36:44 | |
They draw on the Zulu tradition of the male vocal group | 0:36:44 | 0:36:47 | |
to create a unique blend of African and Western harmonies. | 0:36:47 | 0:36:50 | |
THEY SING IN ZULU LANGUAGE | 0:36:50 | 0:36:55 | |
The sound of Ladysmith Black Mambazo, | 0:36:55 | 0:36:58 | |
it's a sound of everything that surrounds us. | 0:36:58 | 0:37:01 | |
Because we grew up in the farm. | 0:37:01 | 0:37:03 | |
Birds singing, wind blowing, | 0:37:03 | 0:37:06 | |
frogs singing and... | 0:37:06 | 0:37:08 | |
-some small insect... -HE LAUGHS | 0:37:08 | 0:37:11 | |
So the music is... It's there all the time. | 0:37:11 | 0:37:13 | |
HE SINGS IN ZULU LANGUAGE | 0:37:13 | 0:37:16 | |
'When I got a call, I just ran to my cousin.' | 0:37:16 | 0:37:21 | |
"Hey, I talked to somebody! His name is Paul Simon. | 0:37:21 | 0:37:26 | |
"He want to see me." I was proud of that. "He want to see me. | 0:37:26 | 0:37:31 | |
"He want to talk to me!" | 0:37:31 | 0:37:34 | |
And the guy said, "Go there! Go there! Don't make a mistake. | 0:37:34 | 0:37:36 | |
"Please go there! And come back and tell us." | 0:37:36 | 0:37:40 | |
'Joseph Shabalala was very quiet in the studio.' | 0:37:40 | 0:37:45 | |
He was just kind of mysterious and quiet. | 0:37:45 | 0:37:47 | |
'So I wasn't sure whether he liked what I was doing | 0:37:47 | 0:37:52 | |
'or whether he liked me.' | 0:37:52 | 0:37:55 | |
And he gave me, like, ten or 12 albums, | 0:37:55 | 0:37:57 | |
which I used to listen to every night. | 0:37:57 | 0:38:00 | |
I used to, you know, listen to 'em on my... | 0:38:00 | 0:38:03 | |
I would fall asleep listening to them. | 0:38:03 | 0:38:06 | |
And I just totally became just... | 0:38:06 | 0:38:08 | |
..um... | 0:38:09 | 0:38:11 | |
You know, er...bewitched by Ladysmith Black Mambazo. | 0:38:12 | 0:38:17 | |
Because they were so beautiful. | 0:38:18 | 0:38:21 | |
I thought it was so beautiful that I was totally intimidated. | 0:38:25 | 0:38:30 | |
They were so good at what they did and it was so contained | 0:38:30 | 0:38:35 | |
that I didn't really know at the time | 0:38:35 | 0:38:38 | |
how I could possibly fit into their world | 0:38:38 | 0:38:42 | |
and didn't know whether they wanted me to fit into their world. | 0:38:42 | 0:38:47 | |
Paul was so polite. Paul has a special magic. Nobody has that magic. | 0:38:51 | 0:38:57 | |
He just come to me like a baby. | 0:38:57 | 0:39:00 | |
Like, "Father... can you teach me something?" | 0:39:00 | 0:39:05 | |
THEY SING IN ZULU LANGUAGE | 0:39:05 | 0:39:09 | |
And we hugged. That was my first time to hug. | 0:39:13 | 0:39:16 | |
Especially a white man. | 0:39:16 | 0:39:18 | |
When I finished that, I said, "Ooh, I'm in jail now." | 0:39:18 | 0:39:23 | |
And Paul Simon was talking and I forgot about that. | 0:39:23 | 0:39:28 | |
"Oh, yes, and, Joseph... Paul Simon from New York City. | 0:39:28 | 0:39:32 | |
"I just listen to your record | 0:39:32 | 0:39:35 | |
"and I think you can do something together." | 0:39:35 | 0:39:38 | |
I'm a person who is just like... When you talk about music to me, | 0:39:38 | 0:39:42 | |
let's do it now. And I said, "Yes, Paul, let's do it!" and he said, | 0:39:42 | 0:39:46 | |
"Right, Joseph. I'll let you know where, when." | 0:39:46 | 0:39:51 | |
So we decided that I would write a song | 0:39:51 | 0:39:54 | |
and we would record outside of South Africa. | 0:39:54 | 0:39:57 | |
I didn't want to go back to South Africa. | 0:39:57 | 0:40:00 | |
I wasn't comfortable. I wanted to get out of there. | 0:40:00 | 0:40:05 | |
We took it back to New York, | 0:40:10 | 0:40:12 | |
and that's where the work really started. Putting it all together, | 0:40:12 | 0:40:15 | |
it was a heck of an undertaking. | 0:40:15 | 0:40:18 | |
The challenge on this album was there were no songs, | 0:40:25 | 0:40:28 | |
no arrangement. So the challenge was editing, editing, editing, | 0:40:28 | 0:40:34 | |
and lots of editing. You know, taking things from here and putting | 0:40:34 | 0:40:37 | |
them there, take that out, put it over here, and re-copying things. | 0:40:37 | 0:40:41 | |
If you heard what the tracks were originally, without his magic | 0:40:42 | 0:40:46 | |
and his echo and his devices that he used, | 0:40:46 | 0:40:51 | |
it wouldn't sound so huge and so mysterious. | 0:40:51 | 0:40:54 | |
So we finished all our editing, we made tracks that had some | 0:41:00 | 0:41:04 | |
semblance of a song there, and he went out and tried desperately | 0:41:04 | 0:41:09 | |
to put words to each one. And he did. And he slaved at it, | 0:41:09 | 0:41:14 | |
it was awfully hard, | 0:41:14 | 0:41:15 | |
because there's so much going on in those tracks. | 0:41:15 | 0:41:18 | |
You know, they are very busy tracks. | 0:41:18 | 0:41:20 | |
Paul came back from Africa and we met on holiday that year, | 0:41:29 | 0:41:34 | |
we were at the same place in the summer on Long Island. | 0:41:34 | 0:41:38 | |
I'd known him for a little while as a friend, | 0:41:38 | 0:41:41 | |
and he talked about this music, and I said, have you got it? | 0:41:41 | 0:41:45 | |
Let's hear it. So we went out in the car | 0:41:45 | 0:41:47 | |
and he played it on the car stereo. | 0:41:47 | 0:41:49 | |
'When I was writing back at home, I would write a verse,' | 0:41:50 | 0:41:53 | |
it would be fine, then I would write another verse | 0:41:53 | 0:41:56 | |
and it wouldn't be fine, I would write another verse and it would be fine. | 0:41:56 | 0:41:59 | |
It's all good, except that verse - | 0:41:59 | 0:42:01 | |
I don't know why that verse isn't good. | 0:42:01 | 0:42:03 | |
It should be, it seems like it's exactly the same as the others. | 0:42:03 | 0:42:07 | |
And I'm doing the lyrics in the same rhythm, I really don't get it. | 0:42:07 | 0:42:12 | |
I was really frustrated by not being able to get the lyrics to fit. | 0:42:12 | 0:42:17 | |
And then I'd say, let me really listen to what is going on. | 0:42:17 | 0:42:20 | |
And when I started to really listen, then I realised that the guitar part | 0:42:20 | 0:42:26 | |
was playing a different symmetry than I had assumed it was playing. | 0:42:26 | 0:42:32 | |
And the bass was doing something that was much more important | 0:42:32 | 0:42:36 | |
and that you really might be better off following what the bass was doing. | 0:42:36 | 0:42:41 | |
INAUDIBLE | 0:42:43 | 0:42:45 | |
'So I began to think about that, the rhythm, what that meant, | 0:42:49 | 0:42:51 | |
'and what effect that would have on the lyrics,' | 0:42:51 | 0:42:55 | |
and what effect that would have on storytelling. And I began to raise the bar for my own writing. | 0:42:55 | 0:43:01 | |
# Fat Charlie the archangel swooped into the room | 0:43:01 | 0:43:06 | |
# He said, "I have no opinion about this" | 0:43:08 | 0:43:11 | |
# And I have no opinion about that... # | 0:43:11 | 0:43:14 | |
'So I ended up writing abstract or ironic or... | 0:43:17 | 0:43:20 | |
'But in either case, sort of sophisticated lyrics' | 0:43:20 | 0:43:24 | |
to what were sophisticated rhythms. | 0:43:24 | 0:43:27 | |
Two, one, two, three... | 0:43:28 | 0:43:31 | |
'So you get a song like Graceland, where, you know,' | 0:43:47 | 0:43:51 | |
in the middle of the song there is a girl in New York City | 0:43:51 | 0:43:54 | |
who calls herself the human trampoline. | 0:43:54 | 0:43:56 | |
# There is a girl in New York City | 0:43:56 | 0:43:58 | |
# She calls herself a human trampoline... # | 0:43:58 | 0:44:01 | |
A lyric that would never appear in a South African song. I mean, | 0:44:01 | 0:44:07 | |
it's a very New York lyric. I wrote it while I was walking past | 0:44:07 | 0:44:11 | |
the Museum of Natural History, actually. | 0:44:11 | 0:44:14 | |
# And I'm going to Graceland, to Graceland... # | 0:44:14 | 0:44:19 | |
And I kept singing this chorus, | 0:44:19 | 0:44:20 | |
"I'm going to Graceland, I'm going to Graceland." | 0:44:20 | 0:44:23 | |
And I was thinking, of course, that will go away | 0:44:23 | 0:44:26 | |
because the song is not about Elvis Presley or Graceland, I mean, | 0:44:26 | 0:44:31 | |
it's a South African record. But it wouldn't go away. Finally, | 0:44:31 | 0:44:36 | |
I said, it's not going away, I'd better go to Graceland. I've never | 0:44:36 | 0:44:41 | |
been. I'd better make that trip and see... Maybe there's something | 0:44:41 | 0:44:44 | |
about this that I'm supposed to find out. And had I not made that trip, | 0:44:44 | 0:44:49 | |
I wouldn't have been able to write the landscape that is | 0:44:49 | 0:44:53 | |
the first verse about the Mississippi Delta | 0:44:53 | 0:44:55 | |
shining like a national guitar. | 0:44:55 | 0:44:57 | |
# Shining like a national guitar... | 0:44:57 | 0:44:59 | |
# I'm following the river down the highway | 0:45:03 | 0:45:06 | |
# Through the cradle of civil war... # | 0:45:06 | 0:45:08 | |
And so the song took on a bigger meaning. | 0:45:08 | 0:45:11 | |
# I'm going to Graceland, Graceland, in Memphis... # | 0:45:11 | 0:45:15 | |
It was a metaphor for a state of grace. I was taking absurdist lyrics | 0:45:15 | 0:45:22 | |
which I thought had no place with this rhythm track, | 0:45:22 | 0:45:25 | |
and finally saying, well, maybe it does have a place. | 0:45:25 | 0:45:29 | |
Sometimes when I'm falling, flying, tumbling in turmoil - | 0:45:30 | 0:45:34 | |
this was something else that I was doing, was a lot of syllables. | 0:45:34 | 0:45:38 | |
# This is what she means | 0:45:38 | 0:45:40 | |
# She means we're bouncing into Graceland... # | 0:45:40 | 0:45:44 | |
"This is what she means, she means we're bouncing into Graceland" - | 0:45:44 | 0:45:46 | |
which was also something that I hadn't done, | 0:45:46 | 0:45:49 | |
which was taking the chorus word and putting it into the verse. | 0:45:49 | 0:45:53 | |
Usually, the chorus has its own repetitive phrase or word, | 0:45:53 | 0:45:58 | |
and you don't hear that word in the verse. But now I was saying, well, | 0:45:58 | 0:46:02 | |
there's no reason to separate. They can bleed back and forth. | 0:46:02 | 0:46:06 | |
That's the beginning of saying, actually, these patterns that felt restrictive are not... | 0:46:06 | 0:46:14 | |
They needn't be there. | 0:46:14 | 0:46:16 | |
# I may be obliged to defend every love every ending... # | 0:46:18 | 0:46:25 | |
I remember he would invite me over to hear what he was doing. | 0:46:25 | 0:46:28 | |
We did that a lot in those days. We still do. | 0:46:28 | 0:46:32 | |
He would have the backing tracks | 0:46:32 | 0:46:34 | |
and he would play those to me and sing the words. Really... | 0:46:34 | 0:46:39 | |
At some point, I said, "Paul, this is going to be a really, really good record." | 0:46:39 | 0:46:43 | |
That's very good, guys. | 0:46:55 | 0:46:56 | |
'That was a great gift that I received' | 0:46:56 | 0:47:00 | |
from making the trip to South Africa, and, you know, | 0:47:00 | 0:47:05 | |
and collaborating with African musicians. | 0:47:05 | 0:47:08 | |
# Somebody cry, why, why, why? # | 0:47:10 | 0:47:14 | |
'It wasn't until I got home that I started to think, | 0:47:14 | 0:47:16 | |
'I could write a song for Ladysmith Black Mambazo. | 0:47:16 | 0:47:19 | |
'So I wrote Homeless, imitating them,' | 0:47:19 | 0:47:23 | |
and sent the demo to them and said, "You can use this | 0:47:23 | 0:47:27 | |
"or you can change it, add to it if you want, | 0:47:27 | 0:47:31 | |
"or change it completely if you want. Do anything you want to it." | 0:47:31 | 0:47:34 | |
# Homeless, homeless | 0:47:36 | 0:47:39 | |
# Moonlight sleeping on a midnight lake... # | 0:47:39 | 0:47:42 | |
After two weeks, we saw the cassette came in the post office from Paul. | 0:47:42 | 0:47:46 | |
And then we put the cassette to play, so he was playing a piano | 0:47:46 | 0:47:52 | |
and singing only two lines - | 0:47:52 | 0:47:53 | |
"homeless, homeless, moonlight sleeping on the midnight lake". | 0:47:53 | 0:47:57 | |
# Homeless, homeless | 0:47:57 | 0:48:01 | |
# The moonlight sleeping on a midnight lake... # | 0:48:01 | 0:48:05 | |
And then he was doing some other noise like... | 0:48:05 | 0:48:08 | |
And then when we thought, we said, | 0:48:08 | 0:48:10 | |
"Oh, maybe he was trying to say, "Gr-rr" and do all those things. | 0:48:10 | 0:48:14 | |
They wrote back and said, yeah, they liked it and they had some ideas. | 0:48:14 | 0:48:19 | |
And we decided to go to Abbey Road Studios in London. | 0:48:19 | 0:48:24 | |
-London! -First-class. -London! | 0:48:24 | 0:48:28 | |
THEY SING IN ZULU LANGUAGE | 0:48:28 | 0:48:32 | |
In London, we were taken to the studio, | 0:48:38 | 0:48:41 | |
and that was the first time for us as a group to meet Paul Simon. | 0:48:41 | 0:48:45 | |
Wow! It was wonderful. | 0:48:45 | 0:48:48 | |
It felt so good and so exciting. So the microphones | 0:48:48 | 0:48:51 | |
were set there and then we got there. We started to sing the song. | 0:48:51 | 0:48:55 | |
But the song didn't want to work the first day. | 0:49:00 | 0:49:04 | |
Our producer, here at home in the western coast was trying to help. | 0:49:04 | 0:49:08 | |
"No, guys, just sing it like this. Maybe Paul wants this." | 0:49:08 | 0:49:11 | |
And there was so many people trying to help. We tried the song | 0:49:13 | 0:49:17 | |
from two o'clock until six in the evening. | 0:49:17 | 0:49:20 | |
'And then the song didn't want to work at all. Paul Simon said, "OK, | 0:49:27 | 0:49:30 | |
'"let's call it a day and we will see tomorrow."' | 0:49:30 | 0:49:34 | |
We went back to our hotel very disappointed, | 0:49:34 | 0:49:38 | |
because usually Ladysmith Black Mambazo will record 12 songs a day. | 0:49:38 | 0:49:43 | |
But this time, only one song, we couldn't make it. | 0:49:43 | 0:49:46 | |
We were so disappointed. And then we got to the hotel, | 0:49:46 | 0:49:50 | |
we had dinner and then we got together, we prayed. | 0:49:50 | 0:49:54 | |
Our prayer was very, you know, deep that day. | 0:49:54 | 0:49:59 | |
I remember that I was so concerned. No, I've never failed in anything, | 0:49:59 | 0:50:04 | |
so this is no time to fail now. | 0:50:04 | 0:50:07 | |
And then so we practised the song until 12 midnight, | 0:50:07 | 0:50:10 | |
and then the song was together. | 0:50:10 | 0:50:12 | |
-I should come over here. -'The next day when we went to the studio | 0:50:14 | 0:50:18 | |
'and Joseph Jacks walked up to Paul Simon and said,' | 0:50:18 | 0:50:21 | |
"We have been practising. | 0:50:21 | 0:50:23 | |
"So we want you to listen to what we have been practised." | 0:50:23 | 0:50:27 | |
THEY SING | 0:50:27 | 0:50:29 | |
We just looked at one another - OK, guys. | 0:50:33 | 0:50:35 | |
HE SINGS | 0:50:35 | 0:50:38 | |
Just like I'm angry. | 0:50:38 | 0:50:40 | |
HE SINGS IN ZULU LANGUAGE | 0:50:40 | 0:50:44 | |
And then Paul... | 0:50:44 | 0:50:46 | |
# Homeless... # | 0:50:46 | 0:50:48 | |
I nearly faint. I thought he was going to wait until we finished, | 0:50:48 | 0:50:55 | |
and he gets it in the right position. | 0:50:55 | 0:50:58 | |
# Homeless | 0:51:02 | 0:51:05 | |
# Homeless | 0:51:05 | 0:51:07 | |
# Moonlight sleeping on a midnight lake | 0:51:07 | 0:51:10 | |
# Homeless, homeless | 0:51:10 | 0:51:13 | |
# Moonlight sleeping on a midnight lake | 0:51:13 | 0:51:17 | |
# Homeless, homeless | 0:51:17 | 0:51:20 | |
# The moonlight sleeping on a midnight lake | 0:51:20 | 0:51:24 | |
# Homeless, homeless... # | 0:51:24 | 0:51:27 | |
'I think it took two takes. They had it so perfectly. | 0:51:27 | 0:51:30 | |
'The beginning of the song is a folk song, a traditional song. | 0:51:30 | 0:51:34 | |
'I said, "Well, what does it mean?" | 0:51:34 | 0:51:36 | |
'They said, "Oh, we are far away from home and we are sleeping' | 0:51:36 | 0:51:40 | |
"and our fists are our pillows." I said, "Oh, that's beautiful." | 0:51:40 | 0:51:44 | |
In two hours, the song was finished. | 0:51:47 | 0:51:50 | |
We were so excited and so satisfied and then we said, | 0:51:50 | 0:51:55 | |
"Ooof! This is it. Wonderful." | 0:51:55 | 0:51:58 | |
# Somebody sing... # | 0:52:01 | 0:52:04 | |
I enjoyed to work with Paul Simon, it was just like, | 0:52:04 | 0:52:07 | |
it's my younger brother or elder brother. Who is this guy? | 0:52:07 | 0:52:12 | |
He was hiding himself in America - this is my brother. | 0:52:12 | 0:52:15 | |
I called him brother every day. | 0:52:15 | 0:52:18 | |
Brother. Because of the music. Music is something like prayer. | 0:52:18 | 0:52:22 | |
# Homeless, homeless | 0:52:24 | 0:52:27 | |
# Moonlight sleeping on a midnight lake. # | 0:52:27 | 0:52:33 | |
Then we decided that we would get Ray and Bakiti, | 0:52:35 | 0:52:38 | |
and Isaac and form a kind of studio band. | 0:52:38 | 0:52:42 | |
And I invited them and Ladysmith to come to New York | 0:52:42 | 0:52:46 | |
to finish the album. And everybody was getting really excited. | 0:52:46 | 0:52:51 | |
First they got off the plane and were met by a limo, you know, | 0:52:57 | 0:53:00 | |
and a white driver, and they drove into Manhattan. | 0:53:00 | 0:53:03 | |
I used to see a limo in the movies, | 0:53:03 | 0:53:06 | |
and in South Africa, I don't remember seeing any limo anywhere, | 0:53:06 | 0:53:10 | |
you understand what I'm saying? | 0:53:10 | 0:53:13 | |
And it was a cool thing to be in the limo | 0:53:13 | 0:53:16 | |
and you are served whisky and that kind of thing. | 0:53:16 | 0:53:18 | |
You know, you are being treated like a musician. | 0:53:18 | 0:53:21 | |
I remember - was it Bakiti or Isaac? | 0:53:22 | 0:53:25 | |
He said, "We want to go to Central Park, where do we go to get a permit?" | 0:53:25 | 0:53:29 | |
I said, "You don't need a permit, you just go. | 0:53:29 | 0:53:32 | |
"You can go anywhere you want." | 0:53:32 | 0:53:34 | |
Those guys were coming from an imprisoned society | 0:53:34 | 0:53:38 | |
into freedom for the first time. It was very touching. | 0:53:38 | 0:53:41 | |
They were free. Free. | 0:53:43 | 0:53:46 | |
'The record was supposed to come out in the spring of '86, | 0:53:53 | 0:53:58 | |
'and we were booked to do Saturday Night Live,' | 0:53:58 | 0:54:01 | |
and Warner Brothers decided to postpone the record until the fall, | 0:54:01 | 0:54:04 | |
but we were booked for Saturday Night Live. | 0:54:04 | 0:54:07 | |
So I said, "We're all here, we might as well try to do another track." | 0:54:07 | 0:54:11 | |
So we did what became Diamonds On The Soles Of Her Shoes. | 0:54:11 | 0:54:15 | |
They were doing the song, then they stopped, and Paul Simon said, | 0:54:15 | 0:54:20 | |
"Can you play this song? I'm just doing this song, | 0:54:20 | 0:54:25 | |
Diamonds On The Soles Of Her Shoes. | 0:54:25 | 0:54:27 | |
And then Joseph just took a piece of paper | 0:54:27 | 0:54:31 | |
and then the pen and then he wrote it down. Only a few words. | 0:54:31 | 0:54:36 | |
What were the words? | 0:54:36 | 0:54:38 | |
HE SPEAKS ZULU | 0:54:38 | 0:54:40 | |
# She's rich girl She don't try to hide it | 0:54:50 | 0:54:53 | |
# Got diamonds on the soles of her shoes | 0:54:53 | 0:54:57 | |
# He's a poor boy | 0:54:57 | 0:54:58 | |
# Empty as a pocket, he's empty as a pocket with nothing to lose... # | 0:54:58 | 0:55:04 | |
The lyrics means... | 0:55:04 | 0:55:07 | |
HE SPEAKS ZULU | 0:55:07 | 0:55:09 | |
It's not usual... | 0:55:09 | 0:55:12 | |
HE SPEAKS ZULU | 0:55:12 | 0:55:15 | |
But in our days... | 0:55:15 | 0:55:17 | |
HE SPEAKS ZULU | 0:55:17 | 0:55:18 | |
We see those things happen. | 0:55:18 | 0:55:22 | |
HE SPEAKS ZULU | 0:55:22 | 0:55:23 | |
The women, they can take care of themselves. | 0:55:23 | 0:55:26 | |
# I got diamonds on the soles of my shoes... # | 0:55:26 | 0:55:30 | |
We decided to put Ladysmith at the end of the track, and they | 0:55:32 | 0:55:37 | |
had never sung with musicians before, they always sang a cappella. | 0:55:37 | 0:55:42 | |
We were there, maybe, not even two hours time. And then | 0:55:44 | 0:55:48 | |
Paul Simon said, at the end, let's do this. | 0:55:48 | 0:55:51 | |
# Da-na-na-na, da-na-na-na-na. # | 0:55:51 | 0:55:53 | |
Everybody was having a good time. | 0:55:53 | 0:55:56 | |
After that, we went to do Saturday Night Live. And everybody was | 0:56:02 | 0:56:08 | |
very nervous about that. That audience, they are very mean. | 0:56:08 | 0:56:13 | |
We didn't care because we knew we believed what we had was a gift. | 0:56:13 | 0:56:17 | |
We sing for you - if you like it, you like it, if you don't, you don't. | 0:56:17 | 0:56:21 | |
And we went on the show, and we sang the songs that weren't out | 0:56:22 | 0:56:26 | |
-on the record yet. -Do you think people are going to like this, | 0:56:26 | 0:56:29 | |
-what you're doing? -I'm not sure. | 0:56:29 | 0:56:30 | |
That's why I have this expression on. | 0:56:30 | 0:56:32 | |
Ladies and gentlemen, Paul Simon with Ladysmith Black Mambazo. | 0:56:37 | 0:56:41 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:56:41 | 0:56:43 | |
THEY SING IN ZULU LANGUAGE | 0:56:49 | 0:56:53 | |
# She's a rich girl She don't try to hide it | 0:56:59 | 0:57:03 | |
# Diamonds on the soles of her shoes | 0:57:03 | 0:57:07 | |
# He's a poor boy Empty as a pocket | 0:57:07 | 0:57:10 | |
# Empty as a pocket with nothing to lose | 0:57:10 | 0:57:14 | |
-# Sing ta-na-na -Ta-na-na | 0:57:14 | 0:57:16 | |
# Ta-na-na-na | 0:57:16 | 0:57:17 | |
# She got diamonds on the soles of her shoes | 0:57:17 | 0:57:21 | |
-# Ta-na-na -Ta-na-na... # | 0:57:21 | 0:57:25 | |
And then we sang the song. We performed it with confidence. | 0:57:25 | 0:57:27 | |
# People say she's crazy, she's got diamonds on the soles of her shoes | 0:57:27 | 0:57:32 | |
# Well, that's way to lose these walking boots | 0:57:34 | 0:57:38 | |
# Diamonds on the soles of her shoes. # | 0:57:38 | 0:57:42 | |
Everyone was kind of in awe. | 0:57:42 | 0:57:44 | |
It was unlike anything that had been on the show before. | 0:57:44 | 0:57:47 | |
And you felt it in the studio, | 0:57:47 | 0:57:49 | |
you knew it was happening in the country. | 0:57:49 | 0:57:51 | |
It was just, "boom". | 0:57:51 | 0:57:53 | |
'The cheering and the sound in the studio from the audience,' | 0:57:59 | 0:58:04 | |
it was so loud that I kind of lost my place in one of the things. | 0:58:04 | 0:58:08 | |
It was really surprising. Nobody had ever heard it before. | 0:58:08 | 0:58:12 | |
Them being on the show was a revolution in taste. | 0:58:16 | 0:58:20 | |
It was the synthesis of two cultures and the obvious affection that | 0:58:20 | 0:58:26 | |
they had for Paul and Paul had for them was the perfect moment. | 0:58:26 | 0:58:30 | |
Ladysmith Black Mambazo became the hippest act on the planet. | 0:58:36 | 0:58:39 | |
Everybody wanted Ladysmith Black Mambazo. | 0:58:39 | 0:58:43 | |
They became international stars and remain so. | 0:58:43 | 0:58:46 | |
So, almost two years after I first went to South Africa, | 0:58:48 | 0:58:51 | |
the record finally came out. | 0:58:51 | 0:58:54 | |
There's so much despair coming out of South Africa, | 0:58:56 | 0:58:58 | |
so many haunting issues of debt and oppression. It's sometimes hard | 0:58:58 | 0:59:02 | |
to remember that life there does go on in all of its forms. | 0:59:02 | 0:59:05 | |
And a celebration of the black life of South Africa can be heard | 0:59:05 | 0:59:09 | |
in this country in a remarkable album called Graceland. | 0:59:09 | 0:59:12 | |
All artists who have long careers periodically hit dead ends. | 0:59:13 | 0:59:17 | |
And if you're going to keep a career going, you have to keep being | 0:59:17 | 0:59:20 | |
a kid again. And that is in a way what he did with Graceland, | 0:59:20 | 0:59:25 | |
to be a kid again, to go back to three chords, | 0:59:25 | 0:59:28 | |
to be bouncing around, | 0:59:28 | 0:59:30 | |
to be making joyous, danceable music. | 0:59:30 | 0:59:32 | |
It's my favourite album of all time. | 0:59:35 | 0:59:39 | |
It just sort of opened up a space inside of you. | 0:59:39 | 0:59:43 | |
For myself, my deep and now abiding interest in South Africa | 0:59:43 | 0:59:50 | |
was stirred by first listening to Graceland. | 0:59:50 | 0:59:53 | |
Simon's work Graceland recently won a Grammy for album of the year. | 0:59:55 | 0:59:58 | |
But somewhere around three weeks after it came out, | 0:59:58 | 1:00:02 | |
the first criticism came. Which I was completely unprepared for. | 1:00:02 | 1:00:09 | |
And the criticism was... | 1:00:09 | 1:00:12 | |
"You broke the UN cultural boycott." | 1:00:13 | 1:00:16 | |
-NEWSREADER: -Paul Simon has run into political problems in South Africa. | 1:00:16 | 1:00:19 | |
The African National Congress | 1:00:19 | 1:00:22 | |
protested his recording in South Africa - a violation, they said, | 1:00:22 | 1:00:25 | |
of the UN cultural boycott. | 1:00:25 | 1:00:27 | |
The album had the controversy around it. It was very vexed, | 1:00:28 | 1:00:32 | |
going to South Africa at that time. | 1:00:32 | 1:00:34 | |
And you got the feeling Paul Simon had gone into it | 1:00:34 | 1:00:37 | |
on a stealth mission and collaborated with the South Africans. | 1:00:37 | 1:00:40 | |
He was collaborating, it turned out, with the right South Africans, | 1:00:40 | 1:00:43 | |
but the whole project seemed a little odd. | 1:00:43 | 1:00:47 | |
A lot of the press picked it up in the United States - | 1:00:47 | 1:00:50 | |
Rolling Stone amongst them - and kind of saw an opportunity to | 1:00:50 | 1:00:54 | |
beat up on a famous guy who may be made a mistake. So they were all | 1:00:54 | 1:01:00 | |
"Paul Simon didn't ask permission from the UN | 1:01:00 | 1:01:06 | |
"and is on the blacklist from the UN." | 1:01:06 | 1:01:09 | |
The intensity of the criticism really did surprise me. | 1:01:11 | 1:01:15 | |
And part of the criticism was, "Here is this white guy from | 1:01:15 | 1:01:19 | |
"New York. And he came in and ripped off these poor, innocent guys." | 1:01:19 | 1:01:25 | |
There is an aspect of this album that bothered me initially. | 1:01:25 | 1:01:29 | |
You have this rich white guy singing on top of these | 1:01:29 | 1:01:33 | |
South African singers. | 1:01:33 | 1:01:35 | |
To demonstrate how his work melded with that of the South Africans, | 1:01:35 | 1:01:38 | |
he first played a track of a popular local band. | 1:01:38 | 1:01:41 | |
MUSIC PLAYS | 1:01:41 | 1:01:43 | |
And then the same tune after it had been Simonised... | 1:01:43 | 1:01:47 | |
To me at the time it seemed like the tourist picture. | 1:01:47 | 1:01:49 | |
"Here is me in front of the Taj Mahal in my T-shirt waving." | 1:01:49 | 1:01:52 | |
And that bothered me at the time. At this point, it doesn't. | 1:01:52 | 1:01:55 | |
I think he was right, and he was ahead of me. | 1:01:55 | 1:01:59 | |
You know, he was saying, we can make this amalgam work, | 1:01:59 | 1:02:03 | |
this combination work. And I think a lot of people at the time | 1:02:03 | 1:02:07 | |
had this knee-jerk reaction of, you know, "rich, privileged white guy, | 1:02:07 | 1:02:11 | |
"poor country, must be bad." | 1:02:11 | 1:02:13 | |
How can you justify going there, taking all of this music from this | 1:02:13 | 1:02:17 | |
country? It's nothing but stealing. It ain't nothing but stealing. | 1:02:17 | 1:02:21 | |
ISOLATED APPLAUSE | 1:02:21 | 1:02:23 | |
How can you just go and tell me, "Oh, I went there..." | 1:02:23 | 1:02:26 | |
Graceland is a collaboration. | 1:02:26 | 1:02:28 | |
You don't believe that it's possible to have a collaboration? | 1:02:28 | 1:02:32 | |
It's always an interesting debate. It's happened all the way | 1:02:32 | 1:02:35 | |
through history, particularly through black history. | 1:02:35 | 1:02:38 | |
Do you believe that a collaboration is possible | 1:02:38 | 1:02:40 | |
-between musicians? -Between you and them? No. -Why? -You don't understand. | 1:02:40 | 1:02:45 | |
-Why, because I'm white and they're South African? -You don't understand. | 1:02:45 | 1:02:49 | |
With the Beatles, we actually recycled American black music | 1:02:49 | 1:02:53 | |
to Americans. We came over and we were really doing a lot of Motown. | 1:02:53 | 1:03:00 | |
But a lot of white kids hadn't heard Motown. | 1:03:00 | 1:03:05 | |
You don't understand the music. | 1:03:05 | 1:03:07 | |
Well, you are saying something that they, these musicians, | 1:03:07 | 1:03:11 | |
in fact, disagree with. | 1:03:11 | 1:03:13 | |
I accepted Paul's music and what he'd done the minute it came out - | 1:03:13 | 1:03:18 | |
I had no resistance to that. I am a fan of his, | 1:03:18 | 1:03:23 | |
and I like very much, so much, what he's done. And to have | 1:03:23 | 1:03:27 | |
that album, in particular, which was filled with moments of great genius, | 1:03:27 | 1:03:32 | |
and delight, a lot of that welcoming however was under the understanding, | 1:03:32 | 1:03:38 | |
or at least the belief, that he would square what he was doing | 1:03:38 | 1:03:43 | |
with the powers who led the resistance to apartheid. | 1:03:43 | 1:03:47 | |
Which was the ANC. It never dawned on me that that was not the case, | 1:03:47 | 1:03:52 | |
and I didn't know that that was not the case until Paul | 1:03:52 | 1:03:55 | |
called and we met in my home. And he explained to me that he had | 1:03:55 | 1:04:01 | |
this crisis, or this obstacle before him. | 1:04:01 | 1:04:05 | |
Harry said, "You should talk to the ANC." | 1:04:05 | 1:04:08 | |
So when I met with the ANC, I said, "Hey, I have no fight with the ANC, | 1:04:08 | 1:04:13 | |
"we have no fight with the ANC. We support the ANC, | 1:04:13 | 1:04:17 | |
"we'd be willing to do concerts for you." And they said, | 1:04:17 | 1:04:21 | |
"Look, here is the problem. | 1:04:21 | 1:04:23 | |
"You went to South Africa, but you didn't ask us. | 1:04:23 | 1:04:26 | |
"And the way, the way we are structured is if you... | 1:04:28 | 1:04:34 | |
"You have to ask ANC if you're going to do anything." | 1:04:34 | 1:04:37 | |
So I said, "Oh, really? Is that the kind of government you are going to be?" | 1:04:39 | 1:04:43 | |
You know, does that mean I have to, you know, we have to show you | 1:04:43 | 1:04:47 | |
what kind of lyrics we're going to write, or if | 1:04:47 | 1:04:50 | |
the musicians' union decides to vote this way and you don't like | 1:04:50 | 1:04:53 | |
the way to vote, then you will change it around? | 1:04:53 | 1:04:56 | |
I mean, so, I mean, that's just a government that just... | 1:04:56 | 1:04:59 | |
You're going to fuck the artists like all kinds of governments. | 1:04:59 | 1:05:03 | |
What are we talking about here? | 1:05:03 | 1:05:06 | |
-What was their response? -The guy's response was, "Hey, | 1:05:06 | 1:05:10 | |
"personally, I agree with you. But that's what the policy is." | 1:05:10 | 1:05:12 | |
When you have a boycott, it's not flexible. For many people, | 1:05:14 | 1:05:18 | |
that was the issue. Is Paul Simon busting the gates of the cultural | 1:05:18 | 1:05:24 | |
boycott open? We were part of this international sanctions campaign, | 1:05:24 | 1:05:30 | |
which was cultural and sports and business and military. | 1:05:30 | 1:05:35 | |
And in all of those areas, it wasn't about, | 1:05:35 | 1:05:38 | |
"Well, we have a military embargo, but this American tank, | 1:05:38 | 1:05:45 | |
"that one can go through." You know, it was complete. | 1:05:45 | 1:05:50 | |
And it was complete for a reason. | 1:05:50 | 1:05:53 | |
Because you can't ask of everyone what you don't ask of one. | 1:05:53 | 1:05:56 | |
Hugh is here, here comes Hugh now. Hi, Hugh. How you doing? | 1:05:57 | 1:06:03 | |
'Hugh is one of the great South African musicians. | 1:06:03 | 1:06:09 | |
'He is an international star, and he was a political exile. | 1:06:09 | 1:06:14 | |
'Hugh connected up with me in London and we began to talk about touring.' | 1:06:14 | 1:06:18 | |
And I don't think that I could have done it without him. | 1:06:18 | 1:06:21 | |
B-flat, size 1. | 1:06:21 | 1:06:23 | |
Paul had just come from South Africa and he said, | 1:06:27 | 1:06:31 | |
"Listen, I just did this thing | 1:06:31 | 1:06:33 | |
"and I would really like to take it all over the world. You interested?" | 1:06:33 | 1:06:36 | |
I said, of course. | 1:06:36 | 1:06:38 | |
And I said to Paul, it would be good to pull in, like, Miriam Makeba, | 1:06:47 | 1:06:52 | |
because I was anticipating the troubles also. | 1:06:52 | 1:06:55 | |
Here now is Miriam Makeba. | 1:06:55 | 1:06:58 | |
APPLAUSE | 1:06:58 | 1:06:59 | |
Miriam Makeba became the most visible African artist in the 1960s | 1:07:02 | 1:07:08 | |
when nobody had heard of artists from South Africa. | 1:07:08 | 1:07:10 | |
She was the first artist to really break that. | 1:07:10 | 1:07:13 | |
And she was the first person | 1:07:13 | 1:07:14 | |
to conscientise not only the world but America, especially, about | 1:07:14 | 1:07:19 | |
-what was happening in South Africa. -Would you not resist if you | 1:07:19 | 1:07:22 | |
were allowed no rights in your own country? | 1:07:22 | 1:07:25 | |
We had been away from home | 1:07:25 | 1:07:27 | |
by that time, me and Miriam, over 25 years. In exile. | 1:07:27 | 1:07:32 | |
I spoke to Miriam, she was interested, and I knew it was | 1:07:32 | 1:07:36 | |
going to be great. We were going to be like pigs in mud | 1:07:36 | 1:07:39 | |
with all that was going to happen. | 1:07:39 | 1:07:41 | |
APPLAUSE AND CHEERING | 1:07:41 | 1:07:45 | |
# The sun was beating on the soldier by the side of the road | 1:07:59 | 1:08:03 | |
# There was a bright light A shattering of shop windows | 1:08:05 | 1:08:09 | |
# As the bomb in the baby carriage was wired to the radio | 1:08:09 | 1:08:12 | |
# These other days of miracle and wonder | 1:08:12 | 1:08:16 | |
# This is the long distance call... # | 1:08:16 | 1:08:19 | |
By the time we did the Graceland tour, and you saw the physical | 1:08:19 | 1:08:24 | |
presence of Africans and whites and the melange, | 1:08:24 | 1:08:27 | |
the mixture of races and cultures, that was a supreme moment. | 1:08:27 | 1:08:34 | |
He wanted to demonstrate that he wasn't all the things | 1:08:34 | 1:08:38 | |
that were inferred by the fact that he had broken the boycott. | 1:08:38 | 1:08:42 | |
So by putting Miriam Makeba and Ladysmith Black Mambazo | 1:08:42 | 1:08:45 | |
and the whole...as you say, | 1:08:45 | 1:08:49 | |
back there, he did a lot to balance social conflict, | 1:08:49 | 1:08:54 | |
or social contradiction. And in that context, I think, | 1:08:54 | 1:09:01 | |
he declared to the audiences that he faced where his deeper self resided. | 1:09:01 | 1:09:07 | |
I remember when we were on tour, | 1:09:11 | 1:09:13 | |
especially in Europe during the winter times, | 1:09:13 | 1:09:17 | |
every time Black Mambazo went on the stage and started singing... | 1:09:17 | 1:09:23 | |
HE SINGS IN ZULU LANGUAGE | 1:09:23 | 1:09:28 | |
..I would feel tears coming. Here I am, I am an African boy, | 1:09:34 | 1:09:39 | |
I'm in the middle of the snow. | 1:09:39 | 1:09:41 | |
And people have come to this show, they have 50,000 people | 1:09:41 | 1:09:45 | |
filled up in the stadium. And I would be crying, like, | 1:09:45 | 1:09:48 | |
"Damn. We are really seeing the world." | 1:09:48 | 1:09:52 | |
Now, at the time, the boycott stated that | 1:09:56 | 1:10:00 | |
South African musicians could not play | 1:10:00 | 1:10:02 | |
anywhere in the world. Paul decided | 1:10:02 | 1:10:05 | |
that it was a risk he was prepared to take. | 1:10:05 | 1:10:08 | |
Touring with Graceland was actually quite tense at times, | 1:10:08 | 1:10:12 | |
particularly in Europe. | 1:10:12 | 1:10:14 | |
Before every concert, the police would come with bomb-sniffing dogs | 1:10:14 | 1:10:18 | |
and go through the whole theatre. | 1:10:18 | 1:10:20 | |
We had a couple of theatres evacuated, and shows | 1:10:20 | 1:10:24 | |
postponed because of bomb threats. | 1:10:24 | 1:10:27 | |
NEWSREEL: 'The day he arrived, a hand grenade was thrown at a building | 1:10:27 | 1:10:30 | |
'housing sound equipment to be used during the concerts. | 1:10:30 | 1:10:33 | |
'A group calling itself the Azanian National Liberation Army | 1:10:33 | 1:10:37 | |
'claimed responsibility. More violence was threatened | 1:10:37 | 1:10:39 | |
'unless Simon called off the tour.' | 1:10:39 | 1:10:42 | |
I remember when we were in London, especially, we performed | 1:10:42 | 1:10:46 | |
at the Royal Albert Hall - I think we were there for 10 days or so - | 1:10:46 | 1:10:51 | |
and of course we had the anti-apartheid movement | 1:10:51 | 1:10:53 | |
protesting. | 1:10:53 | 1:10:55 | |
'Outside the Albert Hall, leaflets critical of the activities | 1:10:55 | 1:10:58 | |
'of the star are presented to his bemused fans.' | 1:10:58 | 1:11:02 | |
At one point, somebody | 1:11:03 | 1:11:06 | |
called the hotel in London | 1:11:06 | 1:11:09 | |
and ordered the South Africans to go back home. | 1:11:09 | 1:11:12 | |
I was in a room with Ray Phiri, | 1:11:12 | 1:11:15 | |
and Ray says, "Asante, do you believe this? | 1:11:15 | 1:11:18 | |
"We face apartheid every day, | 1:11:18 | 1:11:20 | |
"and you're ordering us to go home - are you crazy?!" | 1:11:20 | 1:11:24 | |
I've never seen Ray so angry! | 1:11:24 | 1:11:27 | |
I remember, I got a call at the hotel in London - | 1:11:27 | 1:11:32 | |
I've got to go and see the ANC. | 1:11:32 | 1:11:34 | |
I went to a pub, when I met some of the... | 1:11:34 | 1:11:37 | |
senior members of the movement, | 1:11:37 | 1:11:39 | |
who wanted to know what I was doing. | 1:11:39 | 1:11:42 | |
And I told them that no, we had to perform. | 1:11:42 | 1:11:46 | |
Perform with whom? With Paul Simon. | 1:11:46 | 1:11:49 | |
They told me, "Don't you know that there's a cultural boycott?" | 1:11:49 | 1:11:53 | |
I said, "OK, tell me, like I'm a seven-year-old, teach me | 1:11:53 | 1:11:57 | |
"what did I do wrong. I don't understand it, I'm the victim here. | 1:11:57 | 1:12:00 | |
"I live in South Africa. | 1:12:00 | 1:12:02 | |
"How can you victimise the victim twice?" | 1:12:02 | 1:12:05 | |
Ladies and gentlemen, Hugh Masekela. | 1:12:05 | 1:12:09 | |
That militant approach was at the core of the criticism | 1:12:19 | 1:12:23 | |
that was levelled against me, | 1:12:23 | 1:12:26 | |
and had it not been for Hugh Masekela and for Miriam Makeba | 1:12:26 | 1:12:31 | |
and Ray Phiri, and all the South Africans who were on the tour, | 1:12:31 | 1:12:35 | |
who said, "Stop, what are you doing?" | 1:12:35 | 1:12:38 | |
You know? "We WANT to be out here, we WANT to show our music"... | 1:12:38 | 1:12:41 | |
There's a train that comes from Namibia | 1:12:41 | 1:12:45 | |
and Malawi... | 1:12:45 | 1:12:47 | |
From Lesotho, from Botswana, from Swaziland, | 1:12:47 | 1:12:51 | |
from all the hinterlands of southern and central Africa, | 1:12:51 | 1:12:55 | |
this train carries young and old African men who are conscripted | 1:12:55 | 1:12:59 | |
to come and work on contract | 1:12:59 | 1:13:02 | |
in the golden mineral mines of Johannesburg. | 1:13:02 | 1:13:06 | |
There would be press conferences all the time. | 1:13:06 | 1:13:08 | |
And the press conferences were, like, just people who were | 1:13:08 | 1:13:11 | |
just hoping that I had made some kind of ridiculous mistake. | 1:13:11 | 1:13:14 | |
But when it hit the fan, | 1:13:14 | 1:13:17 | |
Hugh and Miriam, I mean, they could barely be contained. | 1:13:17 | 1:13:19 | |
Hugh would say, | 1:13:19 | 1:13:21 | |
"What did you ever do for South Africa?" | 1:13:21 | 1:13:24 | |
I mean, there were times when we really had to, like, | 1:13:24 | 1:13:28 | |
hold him back! He wanted to... | 1:13:28 | 1:13:30 | |
Hugh wanted to be in a fight. So mostly, | 1:13:30 | 1:13:33 | |
we were trying to explain that we were | 1:13:33 | 1:13:38 | |
as anti-apartheid as could be, that Hugh | 1:13:38 | 1:13:42 | |
was an exile, that Miriam was not allowed to come back | 1:13:42 | 1:13:46 | |
for the burial of her daughter, | 1:13:46 | 1:13:48 | |
that we were very much against the regime. | 1:13:48 | 1:13:51 | |
..and think about the loved ones that they left behind | 1:13:51 | 1:13:54 | |
and may never see again, because... | 1:13:54 | 1:13:57 | |
'We used to have furious arguments' | 1:13:57 | 1:13:59 | |
about the boycott, you know? | 1:13:59 | 1:14:01 | |
Because I said, I just said, | 1:14:01 | 1:14:03 | |
"It's great, and it's helping South Africa." | 1:14:03 | 1:14:06 | |
But when you start to like also ban South African musicians, | 1:14:06 | 1:14:10 | |
who can't make contact with the outside world - outstanding artists - | 1:14:10 | 1:14:15 | |
they can't be hard on people who are already suffering in South Africa. | 1:14:15 | 1:14:18 | |
You can't witch-hunt your people - this show is going to be a smash, | 1:14:18 | 1:14:22 | |
and it's going to play to many people who have never heard of South Africa. | 1:14:22 | 1:14:28 | |
When I was in exile in Botswana, | 1:14:32 | 1:14:34 | |
I had thought... | 1:14:34 | 1:14:36 | |
of, er, joining the ANC. | 1:14:36 | 1:14:40 | |
But over the years I've learned that | 1:14:40 | 1:14:43 | |
if an artist, or anybody, has really something to say | 1:14:43 | 1:14:46 | |
about their concerns for the wellbeing of people, | 1:14:46 | 1:14:50 | |
then they're in the wrong place if they join a political party, | 1:14:50 | 1:14:54 | |
because they have to then follow the strict rules of the party. | 1:14:54 | 1:14:58 | |
And I've never been able to, like, live under rules. | 1:14:58 | 1:15:02 | |
We went to Zimbabwe. Paul wanted to give | 1:15:05 | 1:15:08 | |
South Africans a chance to witness | 1:15:08 | 1:15:10 | |
what we have been giving the people in Europe, | 1:15:10 | 1:15:14 | |
in America, all over the world, so he chose | 1:15:14 | 1:15:18 | |
to do it in Zimbabwe. A lot of South Africans came over | 1:15:18 | 1:15:21 | |
to witness this, and it was beautiful. | 1:15:21 | 1:15:24 | |
Ladies and gentlemen, comrades and friends, | 1:15:24 | 1:15:27 | |
this is Graceland in concert 1987. | 1:15:27 | 1:15:30 | |
CROWD CHEERS AND APPLAUDS | 1:15:30 | 1:15:34 | |
She's been in political exile now for 27 years. | 1:15:36 | 1:15:38 | |
They call her Mama Africa, the queen of South African music, | 1:15:38 | 1:15:43 | |
Miriam Makeba. | 1:15:43 | 1:15:45 | |
CROWD CHEERS AND SCREAMS, MUSIC STARTS | 1:15:45 | 1:15:50 | |
# Joseph's face was black as night | 1:15:56 | 1:16:01 | |
# The pale yellow moon | 1:16:01 | 1:16:04 | |
# Shone in his eyes | 1:16:04 | 1:16:07 | |
# This is the story of how we begin to remember | 1:16:08 | 1:16:13 | |
SHE REPLIES IN SWAHILI | 1:16:13 | 1:16:15 | |
# This is the powerful pulsing of love in the vein | 1:16:15 | 1:16:19 | |
# After the dream of falling and calling your name out | 1:16:22 | 1:16:27 | |
# These are the roots of rhythm | 1:16:29 | 1:16:31 | |
# And the roots of rhythm remain... # | 1:16:31 | 1:16:35 | |
The Zimbabwe concert meant a lot to me, | 1:16:35 | 1:16:38 | |
and to a lot of us, because | 1:16:38 | 1:16:41 | |
it was great for South Africans to get together, | 1:16:41 | 1:16:43 | |
not just black South Africans, | 1:16:43 | 1:16:45 | |
but black and white South Africans, | 1:16:45 | 1:16:47 | |
which is something that was never done. | 1:16:47 | 1:16:50 | |
# In early memory | 1:16:50 | 1:16:53 | |
# Sounds of music were ringing round | 1:16:53 | 1:16:56 | |
# Were ringing round my grandmother's door... # | 1:16:56 | 1:17:01 | |
Everybody knew how important this moment is. It was amazing, | 1:17:01 | 1:17:05 | |
because Masekela them and Miriam them | 1:17:05 | 1:17:07 | |
embraced the whole project, and really, | 1:17:07 | 1:17:10 | |
made sure we're doing it right. | 1:17:10 | 1:17:12 | |
It's very important to be unified. | 1:17:12 | 1:17:15 | |
They really prepped us really nice, and set an example for us. | 1:17:15 | 1:17:18 | |
HE PLAYS INTRO TO NKOSI SIKELEL' IAFRIKA | 1:17:18 | 1:17:24 | |
# Nkosi sikelel' iAfrika... # | 1:17:24 | 1:17:31 | |
I think the idea of us singing the South African anthem, | 1:17:31 | 1:17:34 | |
it came from Paul. | 1:17:34 | 1:17:36 | |
It was the forbidden one at that time. | 1:17:36 | 1:17:38 | |
As soon as we start the song, | 1:17:38 | 1:17:41 | |
Paul would step back, | 1:17:41 | 1:17:43 | |
because he didn't understand the lyrics, you know. | 1:17:43 | 1:17:46 | |
But I think after... two or three days, | 1:17:46 | 1:17:50 | |
we said, "No. Paul, you have to learn the lyrics, | 1:17:50 | 1:17:54 | |
"because we are all one here, | 1:17:54 | 1:17:57 | |
"and this is about you and all of us, | 1:17:57 | 1:18:01 | |
"so you need to learn the lyrics." So we taught him! | 1:18:01 | 1:18:03 | |
# Nkosi sikelel' iAfrika... # | 1:18:03 | 1:18:08 | |
'To be standing on the stage' | 1:18:08 | 1:18:10 | |
with people whose lives were scarred by apartheid | 1:18:10 | 1:18:13 | |
was very, very powerful. | 1:18:13 | 1:18:16 | |
I really felt privileged | 1:18:16 | 1:18:19 | |
and honoured to be asked to be a part of it. | 1:18:19 | 1:18:21 | |
# Thina lusapho lwayo. # | 1:18:21 | 1:18:25 | |
CROWD SCREAMS AND CHEERS | 1:18:25 | 1:18:28 | |
As Graceland became a phenomenon, people began | 1:18:28 | 1:18:31 | |
to put a very clear human face | 1:18:31 | 1:18:35 | |
on the victims of apartheid. | 1:18:35 | 1:18:38 | |
Suddenly, here's Joseph Shabalala, here's Miriam Makeba, | 1:18:38 | 1:18:42 | |
here's suddenly these charismatic, gifted people, | 1:18:42 | 1:18:46 | |
and they are...revealing | 1:18:46 | 1:18:49 | |
a...a magical world. | 1:18:49 | 1:18:52 | |
THEY PLAY AND SING | 1:18:52 | 1:18:54 | |
And people said, "Oh, my God, what do you mean | 1:18:54 | 1:18:57 | |
"that that's going on there? This is really a crime." | 1:18:57 | 1:19:01 | |
Not that they didn't think it before, | 1:19:01 | 1:19:03 | |
but suddenly, it became a very powerful, emotional, | 1:19:03 | 1:19:08 | |
realisation - and that is what was going on with Graceland. | 1:19:08 | 1:19:13 | |
But you can't forget that all of them | 1:19:18 | 1:19:20 | |
who had performed with you out there returned to a country in which | 1:19:20 | 1:19:25 | |
they had no citizenship and no rights. | 1:19:25 | 1:19:27 | |
So, as people themselves, | 1:19:27 | 1:19:31 | |
it may have been good for them in terms of their careers, | 1:19:31 | 1:19:34 | |
it may have been a wonderful thing | 1:19:34 | 1:19:36 | |
in terms of spreading knowledge of our music, | 1:19:36 | 1:19:39 | |
but, you know, they are... they are individuals, | 1:19:39 | 1:19:42 | |
and we were a nation under apartheid. | 1:19:42 | 1:19:46 | |
And so whatever was good for the nation | 1:19:46 | 1:19:49 | |
came first, not what is good for a few individuals. | 1:19:49 | 1:19:54 | |
But what did the artists have to say about that? | 1:19:54 | 1:19:58 | |
Because my experience, from my own country, | 1:19:58 | 1:20:02 | |
and in general, is that there's a certain hierarchy. | 1:20:02 | 1:20:06 | |
At the top are the politicians - | 1:20:06 | 1:20:09 | |
and behind the politicians are the mysterious people | 1:20:09 | 1:20:13 | |
who have money and power. | 1:20:13 | 1:20:14 | |
After that comes the warriors. | 1:20:14 | 1:20:17 | |
Then comes the economists, who say, "This is how a structure must be." | 1:20:17 | 1:20:22 | |
And somewhere down the list comes the artist. | 1:20:22 | 1:20:26 | |
-Mmm. -And when the artist comes in, | 1:20:26 | 1:20:28 | |
the politician says, "We really need you to come and play | 1:20:28 | 1:20:32 | |
"for this fundraiser." "Oh, we have a very important dinner, we'd | 1:20:32 | 1:20:35 | |
"like you to come and sing a few songs acoustically after dinner." | 1:20:35 | 1:20:38 | |
The artists are always treated | 1:20:38 | 1:20:41 | |
as if we worked for... the politicians. | 1:20:41 | 1:20:45 | |
AUDIENCE APPLAUDS AND CHEERS | 1:20:45 | 1:20:50 | |
Thank you. | 1:20:55 | 1:20:56 | |
Thank you and welcome... | 1:20:56 | 1:20:59 | |
to this, er, reunion of | 1:20:59 | 1:21:01 | |
the 25th anniversary of the release of Graceland. | 1:21:01 | 1:21:05 | |
These are the musicians who played on the record | 1:21:05 | 1:21:09 | |
and toured with us, | 1:21:09 | 1:21:11 | |
and it's been a great joy for me | 1:21:11 | 1:21:13 | |
reunite with them after so many years. | 1:21:13 | 1:21:18 | |
That was the flaw in the cultural boycott - | 1:21:35 | 1:21:39 | |
saying, "We won't let you come over here | 1:21:39 | 1:21:42 | |
"and record, and bring what you know | 1:21:42 | 1:21:44 | |
"to intermingle with what we know, so that WE can grow, | 1:21:44 | 1:21:47 | |
"so that we ALL can grow, and so that we all can grow | 1:21:47 | 1:21:51 | |
"the deep truth that artists speak." | 1:21:51 | 1:21:56 | |
# The Mississippi Delta | 1:21:58 | 1:22:00 | |
# Was shining like a national guitar | 1:22:00 | 1:22:02 | |
# I am following the river down the highway | 1:22:06 | 1:22:09 | |
# Through the cradle of the civil war | 1:22:09 | 1:22:12 | |
# I'm going to Graceland, Graceland | 1:22:14 | 1:22:16 | |
# Memphis, Tennessee I'm going to Graceland... # | 1:22:16 | 1:22:20 | |
If there's anything that can conquer the world, | 1:22:21 | 1:22:25 | |
music, a song - you don't have to understand the language, | 1:22:25 | 1:22:28 | |
you just have to understand the feel. I mean, it's 13 notes, | 1:22:28 | 1:22:32 | |
and all - every musician plays...we're all playing | 1:22:32 | 1:22:36 | |
around 13 notes. | 1:22:36 | 1:22:39 | |
# It's a turn-around jump shot It's everybody jump start | 1:22:46 | 1:22:50 | |
# It's every generation throws a hero up the pop charts | 1:22:50 | 1:22:54 | |
# Medicine is magical, and magical is art | 1:22:54 | 1:22:58 | |
# The boy in the bubble The baby with the baboon heart... # | 1:22:58 | 1:23:01 | |
Music evolved the way the album predicted. | 1:23:01 | 1:23:04 | |
A lot of people make music this way now. It's early sampling. | 1:23:04 | 1:23:07 | |
The album uses something from elsewhere and puts you on top of it, | 1:23:07 | 1:23:10 | |
and is a layered assemblage | 1:23:10 | 1:23:13 | |
and places and ideas, and... welcome to hip-hop. | 1:23:13 | 1:23:16 | |
INTRO TO "Bodyguard" | 1:23:16 | 1:23:20 | |
# A man walks down the street, he says, | 1:23:27 | 1:23:30 | |
# Why am I soft in the middle now? | 1:23:30 | 1:23:32 | |
# Why am I soft in the middle? the rest of my life is so hard | 1:23:32 | 1:23:36 | |
# I need a photo opportunity | 1:23:36 | 1:23:38 | |
# I want a shot at redemption | 1:23:38 | 1:23:40 | |
# Don't want to end up a cartoon in a cartoon graveyard... # | 1:23:40 | 1:23:43 | |
You can call me Al is really the story of somebody | 1:23:43 | 1:23:47 | |
like me who just, | 1:23:47 | 1:23:49 | |
you know, goes to Africa with no idea, and ends up | 1:23:49 | 1:23:53 | |
having some extraordinary spiritual experience. | 1:23:53 | 1:23:57 | |
# he looks around, around He sees angels... # | 1:23:59 | 1:24:02 | |
"Angels in the architecture, spinning in infinity... | 1:24:02 | 1:24:05 | |
"Amen, hallelujah." | 1:24:05 | 1:24:06 | |
And starts off with, "Why am I soft in the middle? | 1:24:06 | 1:24:09 | |
"The rest of my life is so hard." | 1:24:09 | 1:24:11 | |
Self-obsessed...person | 1:24:11 | 1:24:14 | |
becomes aware. | 1:24:14 | 1:24:17 | |
# Emaweni we baba | 1:24:17 | 1:24:23 | |
Silala emaweni | 1:24:20 | 1:24:23 | |
# Emaweni we baba | 1:24:23 | 1:24:27 | |
Silala emaweni | 1:24:25 | 1:24:27 | |
# Emaweni we baba | 1:24:27 | 1:24:30 | |
Silala emaweni | 1:24:28 | 1:24:30 | |
# We baba Silala emaweni... # | 1:24:30 | 1:24:34 | |
When Mandela finally was let out of jail, | 1:24:34 | 1:24:38 | |
everybody was ecstatic. | 1:24:38 | 1:24:40 | |
-NEWSREEL: -'Thousands of people gathered, | 1:24:40 | 1:24:43 | |
'waiting for the first words | 1:24:43 | 1:24:45 | |
'in more than 27 years from Nelson Mandela.' | 1:24:45 | 1:24:47 | |
I greet you all | 1:24:47 | 1:24:50 | |
in the name of peace, | 1:24:50 | 1:24:53 | |
democracy and freedom for all! | 1:24:53 | 1:24:58 | |
# And we are homeless | 1:24:58 | 1:25:00 | |
# Homeless | 1:25:00 | 1:25:02 | |
# We're moonlight sleeping on a midnight lake... # | 1:25:02 | 1:25:06 | |
And then, ironically, we had the pleasure of being invited by the ANC | 1:25:06 | 1:25:09 | |
to come and perform in South Africa - | 1:25:09 | 1:25:13 | |
at Mandela's invitation. | 1:25:13 | 1:25:15 | |
In the news this morning, | 1:25:15 | 1:25:16 | |
Paul Simon opened his South African tour last night, | 1:25:16 | 1:25:19 | |
with a concert in Johannesburg. | 1:25:19 | 1:25:20 | |
The UN and the ANC | 1:25:20 | 1:25:24 | |
believe that the cultural boycott should be lifted, | 1:25:24 | 1:25:26 | |
and they've made that announcement. | 1:25:26 | 1:25:28 | |
'I've never gone into any of these struggles | 1:25:30 | 1:25:33 | |
'not believing it was going to end.' | 1:25:33 | 1:25:35 | |
All oppression has to end. | 1:25:35 | 1:25:37 | |
And I think that art played a huge role in defeating | 1:25:37 | 1:25:41 | |
the apartheid system - ALL the artists. | 1:25:41 | 1:25:45 | |
And I think Paul was one of them. | 1:25:45 | 1:25:48 | |
I think the thing is, we ARE today free. | 1:25:48 | 1:25:51 | |
-Yes. -And the journey to freedom | 1:25:51 | 1:25:54 | |
was not a straight road, | 1:25:54 | 1:25:57 | |
and there are those, like yourself, who have, | 1:25:57 | 1:26:01 | |
in some people's view, a misunderstood legacy, | 1:26:01 | 1:26:05 | |
when it comes to the cultural boycott. | 1:26:05 | 1:26:07 | |
But that doesn't go to you. | 1:26:07 | 1:26:09 | |
It goes to a political situation which was forced on all of us. | 1:26:09 | 1:26:13 | |
# Many deaths tonight, it could be you... # | 1:26:13 | 1:26:17 | |
The power of art, it lasts, | 1:26:17 | 1:26:20 | |
because the political dispute that we had, | 1:26:20 | 1:26:23 | |
-it has really gone. -That's it. -But the music | 1:26:23 | 1:26:26 | |
-still brings people together. -That's it. | 1:26:26 | 1:26:29 | |
So, er, that's it, I make my case on behalf of artists. | 1:26:29 | 1:26:33 | |
-Ha-ha-ha! -And I apologise to you if I...if my | 1:26:33 | 1:26:37 | |
lack of...awareness caused you | 1:26:37 | 1:26:39 | |
any feelings that I was harming the cause. | 1:26:39 | 1:26:42 | |
-I certainly never meant it. -I know. -You know that. -I know. -Good. | 1:26:42 | 1:26:44 | |
# Somebody said... # | 1:26:44 | 1:26:47 | |
We let bygones be bygones. | 1:26:47 | 1:26:49 | |
We're welcoming to all, and that includes Paul Simon, | 1:26:49 | 1:26:52 | |
because we have no malice towards you. | 1:26:52 | 1:26:55 | |
-We do not consider you somebody who... -I know that. | 1:26:55 | 1:26:58 | |
..who tried to stop our struggle. | 1:26:58 | 1:27:01 | |
We consider you somebody who fell into the whirlpool | 1:27:01 | 1:27:04 | |
of that struggle, | 1:27:04 | 1:27:06 | |
did beautiful, creative things within it, | 1:27:06 | 1:27:09 | |
but who was subject to the political storms | 1:27:09 | 1:27:12 | |
-that were raging at the time. -Mm-hmm. | 1:27:12 | 1:27:14 | |
But we love you, you're a brother. | 1:27:14 | 1:27:17 | |
And, um, you have our respect. | 1:27:17 | 1:27:19 | |
-I'm happy to hear it. -OK, man. -Thank you. -Ha-ha! | 1:27:19 | 1:27:22 | |
# Kulumani sizwe | 1:27:22 | 1:27:26 | |
# Singenze njani | 1:27:26 | 1:27:28 | |
# Baya jabula abasi thanda | 1:27:28 | 1:27:31 | |
# Yo, wo. # | 1:27:31 | 1:27:33 | |
AUDIENCE APPLAUDS AND CHEERS AS GUITAR PLAYS | 1:27:43 | 1:27:48 | |
Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd | 1:28:03 | 1:28:05 | |
# People say she's crazy | 1:28:05 | 1:28:07 | |
# She got diamonds on the soles of her shoes | 1:28:07 | 1:28:10 | |
# Well, that's one way to lose these walking blues | 1:28:12 | 1:28:16 | |
# Diamonds on the soles of your shoes | 1:28:16 | 1:28:19 | |
# She's physically forgotten | 1:28:21 | 1:28:23 | |
# And then she slipped into my pocket with my car keys | 1:28:23 | 1:28:27 | |
# She says, you've taken me for granted | 1:28:27 | 1:28:29 | |
# Because I please you | 1:28:29 | 1:28:32 | |
# Wearing these diamonds | 1:28:32 | 1:28:35 | |
# And I could say, whoo-oo-oo | 1:28:37 | 1:28:40 | |
# Ooo-oo-oo, oo-oo, oo-oo | 1:28:40 | 1:28:44 | |
# As if everybody knows what I'm talking about... # | 1:28:44 | 1:28:48 |