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For the past two years Grayson Perry has been working | 0:00:06 | 0:00:08 | |
behind the scenes at the British Museum. | 0:00:08 | 0:00:12 | |
He is been given a free hand to choose whatever he wants | 0:00:12 | 0:00:16 | |
from the museum's collection of more than eight million objects. | 0:00:16 | 0:00:20 | |
He's also been making 25 of his own works of art, | 0:00:25 | 0:00:29 | |
ranging from his trademark ceramics, to a working motorbike. | 0:00:29 | 0:00:33 | |
The resulting exhibition - The Tomb of the Unknown Craftsman - | 0:00:36 | 0:00:40 | |
is as if we had stepped into the once-buried treasures | 0:00:40 | 0:00:43 | |
of a newly discovered civilisation. | 0:00:43 | 0:00:46 | |
A civilisation built entirely around the obsessions | 0:00:46 | 0:00:49 | |
of Grayson Perry himself. | 0:00:49 | 0:00:51 | |
And presided over by a mysterious God - | 0:00:52 | 0:00:55 | |
Perry's childhood teddy bear, Alan Measles. | 0:00:55 | 0:00:59 | |
Most of the things in the British Museum have been made, | 0:01:50 | 0:01:55 | |
on the whole, by anonymous craftsmen, | 0:01:55 | 0:01:58 | |
and so I wanted to somehow make their tomb. | 0:01:58 | 0:02:02 | |
They are not soldiers, they are creators. | 0:02:02 | 0:02:08 | |
All the loveliness they have made surrounds them. | 0:02:09 | 0:02:12 | |
In a way, the unknown craftsmen, they are there | 0:02:13 | 0:02:16 | |
in the British Museum. | 0:02:16 | 0:02:18 | |
All of their legacy. | 0:02:18 | 0:02:21 | |
In 2003, Grayson Perry won the Turner Prize | 0:02:29 | 0:02:33 | |
for his richly decorated, | 0:02:33 | 0:02:35 | |
and often sharply satirical ceramic pots. | 0:02:35 | 0:02:39 | |
Since then, Grayson, and his transvestite alter ego, Claire, | 0:02:39 | 0:02:43 | |
have been a fixture of the British contemporary art scene. | 0:02:43 | 0:02:47 | |
But this show will mark a radical departure for him, | 0:02:48 | 0:02:52 | |
both in the scale of its ambition, | 0:02:52 | 0:02:54 | |
and in the way he wants his work to be perceived. | 0:02:54 | 0:02:57 | |
What I'm doing here, | 0:02:59 | 0:03:01 | |
this pot is as much about the British Museum as anything. | 0:03:01 | 0:03:04 | |
One of the central kind of ideas of the show is that | 0:03:04 | 0:03:07 | |
the British Museum is a kind of place of pilgrimage, | 0:03:07 | 0:03:10 | |
a kind of temple. | 0:03:10 | 0:03:11 | |
This is one of the more pleasurable aspects of making a pot. Most of the hard work has been done, | 0:03:14 | 0:03:19 | |
I've built the pot, put on all the colours. | 0:03:19 | 0:03:21 | |
It's all looking quite pretty, in a kind of pottery sort of way, | 0:03:21 | 0:03:24 | |
but when you put the transfer on it's quite nice, | 0:03:24 | 0:03:26 | |
because you get quite a dramatic effect quite quickly. | 0:03:26 | 0:03:29 | |
I love the way that the different colours come through. | 0:03:29 | 0:03:33 | |
But I actually went round the museum | 0:03:33 | 0:03:35 | |
taking photographs of all these faces from the collection. | 0:03:35 | 0:03:39 | |
I'd build up the layers of transfers, | 0:03:39 | 0:03:41 | |
they are very sort of ephemeral and wraith-like. | 0:03:41 | 0:03:45 | |
If you want to get all poetic about it, | 0:03:45 | 0:03:48 | |
these could be like the ghosts | 0:03:48 | 0:03:50 | |
of all these different craftsmen coming through! | 0:03:50 | 0:03:53 | |
I am increasingly being dissatisfied with the context | 0:03:53 | 0:03:57 | |
of the contemporary art space as an arena where I want to put my work. | 0:03:57 | 0:04:02 | |
Things are given a spurious significance | 0:04:02 | 0:04:05 | |
by being in the gallery now. | 0:04:05 | 0:04:08 | |
It used to be you built the gallery to put this significant objects in, | 0:04:08 | 0:04:11 | |
now you put insignificant objects into the gallery | 0:04:11 | 0:04:14 | |
in order to give them significance. | 0:04:14 | 0:04:16 | |
That, for me, I find, that's worn out now. | 0:04:16 | 0:04:19 | |
When it was a novel thought 100 years ago, | 0:04:19 | 0:04:21 | |
when Duchamp said "artists will just be people who point," | 0:04:21 | 0:04:24 | |
that was an interesting thought. | 0:04:26 | 0:04:28 | |
Now, it's boring. And I get a little bit tired of a lot of art | 0:04:28 | 0:04:31 | |
because it's not special enough. | 0:04:31 | 0:04:34 | |
I like the British Museum - it's full of special things. | 0:04:34 | 0:04:37 | |
Several of the artworks Perry has been creating | 0:05:04 | 0:05:07 | |
reflect his feelings about the British Museum. | 0:05:07 | 0:05:10 | |
The Rosetta Vase invites the viewer to decipher | 0:05:10 | 0:05:14 | |
the meaning of the show, in much the way that the museum's | 0:05:14 | 0:05:18 | |
Rosetta Stone unlocked the secrets of ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics. | 0:05:18 | 0:05:23 | |
But it's something of a tease. | 0:05:23 | 0:05:25 | |
The exhibition has been taking shape in Grayson's imagination for years. | 0:05:25 | 0:05:29 | |
One of the most important parts of my business is sketch books. | 0:05:32 | 0:05:36 | |
This is my kind of ideas, and doodles, | 0:05:38 | 0:05:40 | |
and what I work on slightly pissed in front of a telly. | 0:05:40 | 0:05:43 | |
That was going to be the poster to the show. | 0:05:43 | 0:05:45 | |
I don't know if it's going to be now. | 0:05:45 | 0:05:48 | |
I thought that kind of, this idea of the British Museum | 0:05:48 | 0:05:51 | |
as a kind of Tibetan monastery, | 0:05:51 | 0:05:54 | |
which we were all making our pilgrimage towards. | 0:05:54 | 0:05:57 | |
I was trying to find the very first doodle, | 0:05:57 | 0:06:01 | |
because what I'm building here, | 0:06:01 | 0:06:03 | |
is The Tomb of the Unknown Craftsman, | 0:06:03 | 0:06:05 | |
and a classic idea of what is an exhibition at the British Museum | 0:06:05 | 0:06:10 | |
is the contents of a tomb. | 0:06:10 | 0:06:12 | |
I was thinking, what form do I want it to take? | 0:06:12 | 0:06:14 | |
And I'd always wanted to make a ship. | 0:06:14 | 0:06:17 | |
This being an ark of craftsmanship carrying the kind of remnants, | 0:06:17 | 0:06:22 | |
or ideas, or skills into the future. | 0:06:22 | 0:06:26 | |
I imagine it being six feet long, and I want in cast iron, | 0:06:26 | 0:06:30 | |
and so this is quite a technically ambitious challenge for me. | 0:06:30 | 0:06:34 | |
So I've made this, | 0:06:34 | 0:06:36 | |
this is a quarter-scale maquette of how I want it. | 0:06:36 | 0:06:39 | |
And then comes the small matter of scaling it up. | 0:06:39 | 0:06:44 | |
As well as saluting the countless, nameless craftsmen | 0:06:44 | 0:06:48 | |
who made the objects in the British Museum, | 0:06:48 | 0:06:51 | |
as always, with Perry's work, | 0:06:51 | 0:06:53 | |
there is an autobiographical motivation too. | 0:06:53 | 0:06:55 | |
I mean, it might be quite interesting during | 0:06:55 | 0:06:58 | |
this period to try and unpick what my motivation is | 0:06:58 | 0:07:02 | |
for wanting to have a one-man civilisation, | 0:07:02 | 0:07:05 | |
or to make a tomb of the unknown craftsman. | 0:07:05 | 0:07:08 | |
I think it's a tomb for my father in some ways, | 0:07:08 | 0:07:11 | |
though he's still alive. | 0:07:11 | 0:07:13 | |
The kind of idealised... | 0:07:13 | 0:07:16 | |
..utility man. | 0:07:16 | 0:07:18 | |
The man who could do anything. | 0:07:18 | 0:07:20 | |
You know, the man who could build a wall, | 0:07:20 | 0:07:23 | |
rewire the telly... | 0:07:23 | 0:07:24 | |
..service the car. | 0:07:26 | 0:07:28 | |
I mean, I probably have an idealised idea of my father, | 0:07:28 | 0:07:31 | |
because he left when I was very young. | 0:07:31 | 0:07:34 | |
When Perry was five years old, | 0:07:35 | 0:07:37 | |
his mother had an affair with the milkman. | 0:07:37 | 0:07:40 | |
His father left the family home, and Grayson's life for ever, | 0:07:40 | 0:07:44 | |
leaving behind a shed full of tools, and a motorbike. | 0:07:44 | 0:07:48 | |
I've always loved motorcycles, all my life. | 0:07:50 | 0:07:53 | |
And I've always particularly liked custom motorbikes, | 0:07:53 | 0:07:56 | |
because I can't really build one myself, I haven't got the skills. | 0:07:56 | 0:07:59 | |
So I've been waiting around for the money to commission one to be built. Wow! | 0:07:59 | 0:08:05 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:08:05 | 0:08:07 | |
-The big day has arrived. -The big day! | 0:08:07 | 0:08:09 | |
This is the machine. | 0:08:11 | 0:08:13 | |
-First impressions is, it's mighty! -Get across it. | 0:08:13 | 0:08:16 | |
Get across it. | 0:08:16 | 0:08:18 | |
-Look at that! -Oh my God, it's like tractortastic! | 0:08:19 | 0:08:22 | |
No, I love it! It's the sort of bonkersness of it. | 0:08:23 | 0:08:28 | |
What's interesting about the custom bike scene is that it's a relevant | 0:08:28 | 0:08:33 | |
and thriving example of custom craftsmanship, for the customer. | 0:08:33 | 0:08:37 | |
A motorcycle, or a car, is a status object for the modern man, | 0:08:37 | 0:08:41 | |
in the same way as a suit of armour, | 0:08:41 | 0:08:43 | |
or an embroidered robe would have been for a Tudor king. | 0:08:43 | 0:08:46 | |
So, to go to these guys and lay out a huge amount of money | 0:08:47 | 0:08:52 | |
on something for display seems an amazingly timeless thing to do. | 0:08:52 | 0:08:58 | |
I want people to sort of fight to not touch it, that's what I like. | 0:08:58 | 0:09:01 | |
Because with ceramics, people always want to stroke them, because they're so seductive. | 0:09:01 | 0:09:07 | |
So with that, that's what I want from this. | 0:09:07 | 0:09:09 | |
This is the whole reason for the bike, | 0:09:09 | 0:09:10 | |
this throne is why the bike is built basically. | 0:09:10 | 0:09:14 | |
The head of my personal church - | 0:09:14 | 0:09:16 | |
Alan Measles. | 0:09:16 | 0:09:18 | |
Good old Alan. | 0:09:18 | 0:09:20 | |
Good old Alan, well yeah, we've all got a lot to thank him for. | 0:09:20 | 0:09:23 | |
Alan Measles is my teddy bear. | 0:09:24 | 0:09:25 | |
He's coming up to 50, and he is my personal deity. | 0:09:25 | 0:09:30 | |
And has been since childhood, really. | 0:09:30 | 0:09:33 | |
He's a kind of benign dictator of my imaginary universe, | 0:09:33 | 0:09:37 | |
and he's a possessor of all the good qualities of man. | 0:09:37 | 0:09:41 | |
He's a kind of carrier of goodness and maleness. | 0:09:41 | 0:09:46 | |
-That's his throne. -Wow! | 0:09:48 | 0:09:49 | |
I've made him the kind of God of my art world. | 0:09:51 | 0:09:55 | |
I've made quite a few works about him as God. | 0:09:55 | 0:09:58 | |
Because I think cuddly toys and God have a lot in common. | 0:09:58 | 0:10:02 | |
It's a bit like driving a very fast traction engine. | 0:10:03 | 0:10:07 | |
Grayson grew up in suburban Essex, | 0:10:16 | 0:10:18 | |
in a household now dominated by a stepfather he disliked. | 0:10:18 | 0:10:22 | |
Throughout this often unhappy period in his life, | 0:10:23 | 0:10:26 | |
he withdrew into a fantasy world, | 0:10:26 | 0:10:27 | |
playing games with his teddy bear - Alan Measles. | 0:10:27 | 0:10:32 | |
Alan Measles remains at the heart of Perry's imaginative universe to this day, | 0:10:34 | 0:10:39 | |
and will play a presiding role in the civilisation | 0:10:39 | 0:10:42 | |
he intends to create at the British Museum. | 0:10:42 | 0:10:45 | |
In setting myself up against the objects of the British Museum, | 0:10:48 | 0:10:52 | |
where a lot of those objects in the show, the people who made them | 0:10:52 | 0:10:56 | |
would have spent their entire lives making just that sort of object, | 0:10:56 | 0:11:01 | |
within a very narrow tradition. | 0:11:01 | 0:11:03 | |
And they attained a sort of relaxed fluency that is impossible to match | 0:11:05 | 0:11:11 | |
if you're only going to do that thing for a few hours, | 0:11:11 | 0:11:15 | |
days, or weeks. | 0:11:15 | 0:11:16 | |
This pot that I'm working on now is a Tomb Guardian. | 0:11:18 | 0:11:23 | |
The idea of a Tomb Guardian, a kind of scary figure, | 0:11:26 | 0:11:30 | |
that sort of stands at the entrance of something, | 0:11:30 | 0:11:33 | |
a warning to evil forces, | 0:11:33 | 0:11:36 | |
that whole idea is very prevalent in lots of different cultures, | 0:11:36 | 0:11:42 | |
so I thought I have got to have a bit of that. | 0:11:42 | 0:11:48 | |
I'm not a believer in any kind of superstition, | 0:11:48 | 0:11:50 | |
but I kind of, those sort of things | 0:11:50 | 0:11:52 | |
are the kind of bits of grit in the oyster | 0:11:52 | 0:11:55 | |
that start people making stuff, those beliefs. | 0:11:55 | 0:11:58 | |
This is kind of Alan, the dark Alan. | 0:11:59 | 0:12:02 | |
I wanted to put the figures there because they would mark | 0:12:04 | 0:12:07 | |
that you are going into a sacred space, almost, | 0:12:07 | 0:12:10 | |
where the tomb was, and the original conception was | 0:12:10 | 0:12:13 | |
you would be met by a multicultural guard force. | 0:12:13 | 0:12:16 | |
The monolith looks like almost a kind of Hollywood idea | 0:12:17 | 0:12:21 | |
of a kind of ethnographic Tomb Guardian. | 0:12:21 | 0:12:24 | |
You can almost imagine it being made of Styrofoam, | 0:12:24 | 0:12:27 | |
and Captain Kirk knocking it over to get into the tomb. | 0:12:27 | 0:12:31 | |
That Romanian carnival mask, I just love it, | 0:12:32 | 0:12:35 | |
the fact it's got a little dew drop on the end of the nose, | 0:12:35 | 0:12:38 | |
and it just is a very right object. | 0:12:38 | 0:12:42 | |
It's been made by some guys just for the local festival or something. | 0:12:42 | 0:12:46 | |
It's so imaginative, because it's fairly rudimentary materials, | 0:12:48 | 0:12:51 | |
just some pictures ripped out of old magazines, | 0:12:51 | 0:12:54 | |
some novelty sunglasses, | 0:12:54 | 0:12:56 | |
and a pair of false teeth or something, | 0:12:56 | 0:12:58 | |
but it's pretty potent. | 0:12:58 | 0:13:00 | |
And the Sheela-Na-Gig, the reason I put that in is | 0:13:01 | 0:13:05 | |
because I always wanted Alan Measles to have a great big hard-on, | 0:13:05 | 0:13:08 | |
because that's one of the kind of last taboos, | 0:13:08 | 0:13:11 | |
if you like, in imagery - is the erect penis. | 0:13:11 | 0:13:15 | |
So the Sheela-Na-Gig is a kind of riposte to all the people who, | 0:13:15 | 0:13:21 | |
for a second, might take offence at that, | 0:13:21 | 0:13:23 | |
but then they would turn and see | 0:13:23 | 0:13:26 | |
that 1,000 years ago, the female equivalent was hanging in a church. | 0:13:26 | 0:13:29 | |
The fantasy scenarios young Grayson played out with Alan Measles | 0:13:43 | 0:13:47 | |
were war games, which pitted boy and teddy bear | 0:13:47 | 0:13:51 | |
against a brutal army of invading German soldiers. | 0:13:51 | 0:13:54 | |
When I was a child, I had a very strong imaginary world. | 0:13:57 | 0:14:01 | |
All of my games were related to this imaginary world, | 0:14:01 | 0:14:05 | |
right from maybe the age of six or seven, | 0:14:05 | 0:14:08 | |
right through till I was maybe 13 or 14. | 0:14:08 | 0:14:11 | |
The benign dictator of that world was Alan Measles, my teddy bear, | 0:14:11 | 0:14:16 | |
and he was like this hovering male presence, and I was his bodyguard. | 0:14:16 | 0:14:21 | |
Hence me piloting his Popemobile, which is the motorbike - | 0:14:21 | 0:14:26 | |
the Kenilworth AM1! | 0:14:28 | 0:14:30 | |
In all his glory. | 0:14:32 | 0:14:33 | |
Alan Measles' personal, holy, religious conveyance. | 0:14:34 | 0:14:39 | |
Everything about it, the kind of ridiculous scale, the colour, | 0:14:39 | 0:14:44 | |
it's bonkers. | 0:14:44 | 0:14:46 | |
And it has the effect that I wanted to have. I can ask for nothing more. | 0:14:46 | 0:14:50 | |
Oh, I got my trousers caught in it! | 0:14:50 | 0:14:53 | |
This is quite fiddly. | 0:14:53 | 0:14:55 | |
So it might take a while. | 0:14:55 | 0:14:56 | |
Well, Alan Measles, when I was a child, | 0:14:58 | 0:15:01 | |
our enemy were the Germans, | 0:15:01 | 0:15:03 | |
because the Germans were the handy metaphor for the baddies. | 0:15:05 | 0:15:09 | |
But of course that metaphor is now worn out. | 0:15:10 | 0:15:13 | |
We live in a modern, 21st-century world, | 0:15:13 | 0:15:15 | |
and Alan is the first to admit this. | 0:15:15 | 0:15:17 | |
And so, he's going on a kind of mission of appeasement, | 0:15:17 | 0:15:21 | |
where he's going to lay to rest the childish metaphor | 0:15:22 | 0:15:26 | |
of England versus Germany, goodies and baddies, | 0:15:26 | 0:15:30 | |
and have a more nuanced approach to world peace. | 0:15:30 | 0:15:34 | |
He's a God of moderate and understanding reconciliation. | 0:15:34 | 0:15:37 | |
For the next 10 days, Grayson Perry will take Alan Measles | 0:15:39 | 0:15:43 | |
on a tour of Germany, | 0:15:43 | 0:15:45 | |
visiting celebrated sites of pilgrimage along the way. | 0:15:46 | 0:15:49 | |
Before he left for Germany, I caught up with Grayson | 0:15:55 | 0:15:58 | |
at a biker cafe in Essex. | 0:15:58 | 0:16:01 | |
-What do you want? -Cup of tea, please. | 0:16:02 | 0:16:05 | |
Can I have one tea, milky, for him? | 0:16:05 | 0:16:06 | |
One bacon sandwich, and a cup of coffee for me? | 0:16:06 | 0:16:09 | |
So why did you want to do this journey? | 0:16:14 | 0:16:16 | |
Is it a journey of discovery, to some extent? | 0:16:16 | 0:16:19 | |
Well, I think a motorcycle as a psychic symbol | 0:16:19 | 0:16:23 | |
for me is very loaded. | 0:16:23 | 0:16:24 | |
Because my father rode a motorcycle, | 0:16:24 | 0:16:27 | |
and when he left, his motorcycle leant against the wall of the house | 0:16:27 | 0:16:31 | |
for many months after he left. | 0:16:31 | 0:16:33 | |
I can remember sitting on it. | 0:16:33 | 0:16:36 | |
It was a... | 0:16:36 | 0:16:38 | |
I think the motorcycle was a symbol for my father to a certain extent. | 0:16:38 | 0:16:41 | |
Well Alan Measles, of course, was my surrogate father in many ways. | 0:16:41 | 0:16:45 | |
And how do you connect this with the British Museum | 0:16:45 | 0:16:48 | |
exhibition at the end of this? | 0:16:48 | 0:16:50 | |
How much is this trip going to inform that? | 0:16:50 | 0:16:52 | |
In some ways, if you sort of see tourism as a modern pilgrimage, | 0:16:52 | 0:16:55 | |
the BM is the most popular pilgrim site in Britain. | 0:16:55 | 0:17:00 | |
Part of the theme of the show is the whole idea of going to the BM, | 0:17:00 | 0:17:03 | |
going to a museum. | 0:17:03 | 0:17:05 | |
What it means to look at an object, the Rosetta Stone, the famous bits. | 0:17:05 | 0:17:09 | |
I'm sort of interested in the celebrity artefact. | 0:17:09 | 0:17:13 | |
I think every artist, if they really want a full-on career, | 0:17:13 | 0:17:16 | |
they have to do a celebrity artefact at some point. | 0:17:16 | 0:17:19 | |
Damien Hirst did his shark, Antony Gormley has got Angel of the North. | 0:17:19 | 0:17:23 | |
-Is this your celebrity artefact? -I don't know! | 0:17:23 | 0:17:25 | |
I don't know if you can predict what will become your celebrity artefact. | 0:17:25 | 0:17:29 | |
You're not afraid that people will think that's rather opportunist of you? | 0:17:29 | 0:17:33 | |
You just said you are looking to find your celebrity artefact. | 0:17:33 | 0:17:36 | |
I'm interested in the phenomenon of the celebrity object, because that's what a relic was. | 0:17:36 | 0:17:41 | |
It's about that idea that something is special. | 0:17:41 | 0:17:43 | |
I think a lot of art now, the only thing that qualifies it as art, | 0:17:43 | 0:17:47 | |
is that it is in an art gallery. I think beyond that, it is quite difficult to justify. | 0:17:47 | 0:17:52 | |
So that's the argument for going out on the road, and taking things out of the art gallery? | 0:17:52 | 0:17:56 | |
I'm interested in visual culture in the world that's extraordinary, | 0:17:56 | 0:17:59 | |
that's special, that's fun, that's beautiful, that's meaningful. | 0:17:59 | 0:18:03 | |
The pilgrimage was to depart from Perry's home town, Chelmsford, | 0:18:06 | 0:18:10 | |
and end at Chelmsford's German twin town, Backnang. | 0:18:10 | 0:18:13 | |
Alan is on his throne at the back. | 0:18:18 | 0:18:22 | |
He was given to me almost exactly 50 years ago, very close to this spot. | 0:18:22 | 0:18:26 | |
I was born in hospital just up there - St John's Hospital. | 0:18:26 | 0:18:29 | |
That's where I first met Alan. | 0:18:29 | 0:18:31 | |
-It's the mayor. -Oh, the mayor, fantastic. Here he comes. Thank you very much for coming. | 0:18:31 | 0:18:36 | |
The send-off turned out to be a gathering of all the Alans, | 0:18:36 | 0:18:40 | |
with Grayson's peace mission given an official stamp of approval | 0:18:40 | 0:18:44 | |
by the Mayor of Chelmsford - Alan Arnot. | 0:18:44 | 0:18:47 | |
So it says here - behold Alan Measles, | 0:18:47 | 0:18:51 | |
keeper of all good qualities pertaining to a man. | 0:18:51 | 0:18:55 | |
A leader, a fighter, a sportsman, a father. | 0:18:55 | 0:18:58 | |
How scrumptious! | 0:19:01 | 0:19:02 | |
This is a personal message from myself, the Mayor of Chelmsford, | 0:19:02 | 0:19:08 | |
-to Dr Nopper, the Oberburgermeister of Backnang. -Thank you very much. | 0:19:08 | 0:19:13 | |
-Present it to him when you arrive. -We will! | 0:19:13 | 0:19:17 | |
-Alan, we have to push this. -Just push on the back. | 0:19:19 | 0:19:22 | |
-He won't need much of a push. Ready? -Ready. -One, two, three, push. | 0:19:22 | 0:19:27 | |
There you go, it's all right. Thank you. ..Oh, it started! | 0:19:27 | 0:19:30 | |
# Chitty Bang Bang, Chitty Chitty Bang Bang | 0:19:34 | 0:19:37 | |
# Chitty Bang Bang, Chitty Chitty Bang Bang | 0:19:37 | 0:19:39 | |
# Chitty Bang Bang, Chitty Chitty Bang Bang | 0:19:39 | 0:19:42 | |
# Oh you pretty Chitty Bang Bang, Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, we love you... # | 0:19:42 | 0:19:47 | |
I had a vaguely airy fairy idea what the trip to Germany would be like. | 0:19:47 | 0:19:50 | |
It was like a sort of soft focus shot from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. | 0:19:50 | 0:19:54 | |
I'd be going along with the beautiful Bavarian Alps | 0:19:54 | 0:19:57 | |
flickering past in the background. | 0:19:57 | 0:19:59 | |
As it approaches, I am thinking "Oh no, it's going to rain for 10 days, | 0:19:59 | 0:20:03 | |
"and the bike is going to break down." | 0:20:03 | 0:20:05 | |
There is all those kind of anxieties. | 0:20:05 | 0:20:07 | |
# We'll glide on our motor trip | 0:20:09 | 0:20:11 | |
# With pride in our ownership | 0:20:11 | 0:20:13 | |
# The envy of all we survey | 0:20:13 | 0:20:16 | |
# Near Chitty, far Chitty, in our motor car | 0:20:16 | 0:20:19 | |
# Oh what a happy time we'll spend | 0:20:19 | 0:20:22 | |
# Bang Bang Chitty Chitty Bang Bang... # | 0:20:22 | 0:20:24 | |
Perry and Measles will be accompanied on their journey by a group of their friends, | 0:20:24 | 0:20:28 | |
including Grayson's psychotherapist wife, Philippa. | 0:20:28 | 0:20:32 | |
One of the central concerns of my work is that art is a religion. | 0:20:38 | 0:20:41 | |
Contemporary art is a substitute, or maybe actually is a religion. | 0:20:41 | 0:20:48 | |
So pilgrimage is a big part of religion, so I like the idea | 0:20:48 | 0:20:51 | |
that there's people doing art pilgrimages all over the world. | 0:20:51 | 0:20:55 | |
The Isenheim Alterpiece is an image that has been in my consciousness | 0:21:01 | 0:21:06 | |
since I was at school. | 0:21:06 | 0:21:07 | |
This is a picture that I love, I love its layers, | 0:21:07 | 0:21:10 | |
I love its weirdness, | 0:21:10 | 0:21:11 | |
it's almost kind of psychedelicness. | 0:21:11 | 0:21:14 | |
Well, I haven't looked yet. I'm really, really worried, | 0:21:17 | 0:21:20 | |
because I might be incredibly disappointed. | 0:21:20 | 0:21:22 | |
It's something I have been looking forward to seeing | 0:21:22 | 0:21:25 | |
for about 30 years. | 0:21:25 | 0:21:26 | |
Whenever you build something up, | 0:21:26 | 0:21:29 | |
the possibility of disappointment increases. | 0:21:29 | 0:21:31 | |
It's not too bad. | 0:21:35 | 0:21:37 | |
It's very difficult to see it beyond the fame of it. | 0:21:59 | 0:22:02 | |
It's so iconic, because it's so different from any other painting. | 0:22:02 | 0:22:06 | |
Things like the feet, the way they're kind of gnarled, | 0:22:06 | 0:22:09 | |
with that huge nail through them, | 0:22:09 | 0:22:11 | |
it's almost pornographic, the way he's really enjoyed the contortions. | 0:22:11 | 0:22:16 | |
It's like a Japanese tree that has been contorted. | 0:22:16 | 0:22:20 | |
As a culture, we learn to look at art through things like this. | 0:22:20 | 0:22:25 | |
When the go to an art gallery, we go to a special building, | 0:22:25 | 0:22:29 | |
to look at a special object. | 0:22:29 | 0:22:31 | |
That in a way, kind of gives anything a leg up into significance. | 0:22:31 | 0:22:34 | |
Whereas if you place it in a shopping centre, | 0:22:34 | 0:22:38 | |
and it still has power, then I think you are onto a winner. | 0:22:38 | 0:22:44 | |
If you put this in a shopping centre, | 0:22:44 | 0:22:46 | |
and people did not know it, they would be awed by it. | 0:22:46 | 0:22:50 | |
Neuschwanstein - it's in this awesomely dramatic, | 0:23:01 | 0:23:05 | |
beautiful setting. | 0:23:05 | 0:23:07 | |
And it's the absolute epitome of a castle. | 0:23:07 | 0:23:10 | |
MUSIC: "Ride of the Valkyries" | 0:23:10 | 0:23:12 | |
The more I found out about it, about King Ludvig, | 0:23:19 | 0:23:21 | |
this eccentric 19th-century monarch of Bavaria, | 0:23:21 | 0:23:25 | |
who built this place as a kind of retreat from reality, | 0:23:25 | 0:23:29 | |
as a kind of fantasy dedicated to Wagnerian myths. | 0:23:29 | 0:23:33 | |
That, for me, was the most interesting thing about it. | 0:23:33 | 0:23:38 | |
There is something very oppressive about this place. | 0:23:44 | 0:23:47 | |
I think the conception, the idea of building a fantasy castle like this is marvellous and great. | 0:23:47 | 0:23:52 | |
It's like he's instructed someone to come up with it. | 0:23:52 | 0:23:55 | |
"Oh yes, I want a huge Gothic palace, I want a Moorish room, | 0:23:55 | 0:23:58 | |
I want a Gothic room." | 0:23:58 | 0:24:00 | |
But it's been carried out without much love, somehow, in my book. | 0:24:00 | 0:24:04 | |
Alan is decidedly unimpressed. | 0:24:04 | 0:24:07 | |
We're coming into a grotto. Is it real, or is it plaster? | 0:24:09 | 0:24:13 | |
It's plaster. | 0:24:13 | 0:24:15 | |
Here we are top of a rocky outcrop, | 0:24:15 | 0:24:18 | |
and he's built a grotto out of plaster. | 0:24:18 | 0:24:22 | |
-That is, you know... -It's a fantastic grotto! | 0:24:23 | 0:24:26 | |
That someone whose grasp of authenticity is really shaky, | 0:24:26 | 0:24:30 | |
isn't it? | 0:24:30 | 0:24:31 | |
The aspect is superb. | 0:24:33 | 0:24:35 | |
Poor old Ludwig. | 0:24:38 | 0:24:40 | |
No, it's a very interesting relic... | 0:24:45 | 0:24:48 | |
..to someone's psychology. That's what's interesting about it. | 0:24:48 | 0:24:52 | |
This is someone's interior life writ large. | 0:24:52 | 0:24:55 | |
Well, today was mainly about matching up | 0:25:11 | 0:25:14 | |
the reality to my fantasy. | 0:25:14 | 0:25:16 | |
Riding into the Grayson-Perry-on-a-motorbike-shaped hole in the Alpine landscape, | 0:25:16 | 0:25:21 | |
and filling it up. | 0:25:21 | 0:25:24 | |
Because all the way along, I've held this image of me | 0:25:27 | 0:25:30 | |
riding through this landscape, on this bike, | 0:25:30 | 0:25:32 | |
and every time I see an advert, | 0:25:34 | 0:25:36 | |
or a particularly ugly house, it kind of jars. | 0:25:36 | 0:25:40 | |
But it's been a game attempt at fulfilling the fantasy. | 0:25:40 | 0:25:43 | |
If this is an artwork, the central image of it | 0:25:43 | 0:25:46 | |
is me taking Alan in his little chapel | 0:25:46 | 0:25:50 | |
on a very sort of mythic journey. | 0:25:50 | 0:25:54 | |
This is a kind of cliched mythic landscape. | 0:25:54 | 0:25:56 | |
You know, romantic storybook land. | 0:25:56 | 0:26:00 | |
I'm like this toy soldier playing out his horrible, | 0:26:02 | 0:26:06 | |
twisted fantasy in this wholesome landscape. | 0:26:06 | 0:26:09 | |
A bit like Ludvig of Bavaria! | 0:26:09 | 0:26:12 | |
Oh, look, you've got the bear! | 0:26:30 | 0:26:34 | |
-Yes, the bear. -Me too. This is my bear. -I see, beautiful. | 0:26:34 | 0:26:39 | |
Alan Measles. | 0:26:39 | 0:26:40 | |
Yeah, he's a god. | 0:26:41 | 0:26:42 | |
So he's come on a pilgrimage to this pilgrimage. | 0:26:42 | 0:26:45 | |
You see? Yeah. | 0:26:46 | 0:26:48 | |
MUSIC: "Requiem" by Mozart | 0:26:48 | 0:26:51 | |
When looking at a work of art, I think awe comes from the feeling - | 0:27:09 | 0:27:14 | |
"I couldn't do that, I couldn't make that, | 0:27:14 | 0:27:16 | |
"I couldn't think of that." | 0:27:16 | 0:27:18 | |
It's that otherness. | 0:27:18 | 0:27:20 | |
I look at many artworks, and think "I could do that," | 0:27:20 | 0:27:22 | |
but this, it's just incredible. | 0:27:22 | 0:27:24 | |
Look at that door. | 0:27:26 | 0:27:29 | |
That's the door at the gates of heaven. | 0:27:29 | 0:27:33 | |
What's interesting is, what is the difference between this and kitsch? | 0:27:33 | 0:27:38 | |
Because this is not kitsch. | 0:27:38 | 0:27:39 | |
Because this has soul. | 0:27:41 | 0:27:42 | |
This still has its authenticity, | 0:27:42 | 0:27:45 | |
and it's made with complete conviction, | 0:27:45 | 0:27:50 | |
and it has material honesty in it. | 0:27:50 | 0:27:55 | |
This is passionate craftsmanship, design, artistry, belief. | 0:27:55 | 0:28:02 | |
This couldn't be better. | 0:28:08 | 0:28:11 | |
This is exactly how I imagined it. It's unbelievable. | 0:28:11 | 0:28:15 | |
A pilgrimage in my mind is very much a mediaeval thing. | 0:28:15 | 0:28:18 | |
Here I am with Alan, with my completely up-to-date pilgrimage, and here he is, | 0:28:18 | 0:28:23 | |
in his shrine next to this magnificent structure. | 0:28:23 | 0:28:29 | |
One day, maybe people will flock to see Alan on his motorbike, | 0:28:29 | 0:28:34 | |
I don't know. | 0:28:34 | 0:28:36 | |
My name is Friendly Teddy. Yay! | 0:29:00 | 0:29:03 | |
-This is Alan Measles, say hello. -Hello. | 0:29:03 | 0:29:06 | |
I am a contemporary artist. | 0:29:13 | 0:29:15 | |
The kind of church that I have signed up to is contemporary art, | 0:29:15 | 0:29:19 | |
and the White Cube is the temple. | 0:29:19 | 0:29:22 | |
The Brandhorst Museum, in Munich, | 0:29:22 | 0:29:25 | |
it's a very well-done example of the modern art museum. | 0:29:25 | 0:29:30 | |
So it was interesting to put that in the context of all the other | 0:29:30 | 0:29:34 | |
sorts of pilgrimage destinations that were on our route. | 0:29:34 | 0:29:38 | |
The innocent delight of people at, sort of, rococo, compared to | 0:29:40 | 0:29:44 | |
the knowingness, and the coolness of the audience for a place like this. | 0:29:44 | 0:29:50 | |
They will look at every piece of dribble and cardboard | 0:29:50 | 0:29:55 | |
as reverently as we would look at an altarpiece at the Wieskirche. | 0:29:55 | 0:29:59 | |
I think there is a pair of inverted commas hanging for ever | 0:30:00 | 0:30:04 | |
over those people, where they look through everything through an ironic window. | 0:30:04 | 0:30:08 | |
Inevitably, anything I do | 0:30:08 | 0:30:10 | |
is in danger of ending up in a place like this. | 0:30:10 | 0:30:12 | |
I hope that this bike and Alan | 0:30:12 | 0:30:15 | |
resist that force. | 0:30:15 | 0:30:17 | |
We will not be ironised! We will not be contemporary art! | 0:30:17 | 0:30:20 | |
This is a real thing that has happened here, somehow. | 0:30:20 | 0:30:24 | |
-Hello, Alan. -LAUGHTER | 0:30:43 | 0:30:47 | |
GERMAN ACCENT: Herr Grayson, I presume. | 0:30:47 | 0:30:50 | |
ALL: Prost! | 0:30:50 | 0:30:53 | |
So, how has it been for you so far? | 0:30:57 | 0:30:59 | |
It's been, you know, it's fun. It's great. | 0:30:59 | 0:31:02 | |
When it really works, it really works well. | 0:31:02 | 0:31:04 | |
I think, at the moment, | 0:31:04 | 0:31:06 | |
the moment for me that really crystallised the whole trip | 0:31:06 | 0:31:09 | |
was at the Wieskirche. | 0:31:09 | 0:31:11 | |
I managed to park the bike right at the entrance of the church. | 0:31:11 | 0:31:15 | |
There was Alan, sort of parallel with Jesus. | 0:31:15 | 0:31:19 | |
So is this a real pilgrimage or isn't it? | 0:31:20 | 0:31:24 | |
It is not an anti-pilgrimage, | 0:31:24 | 0:31:26 | |
it is a pilgrimage turned on its head, | 0:31:26 | 0:31:28 | |
in that instead of people coming to the shrine, | 0:31:28 | 0:31:32 | |
I am taking the shine to people. | 0:31:32 | 0:31:34 | |
If the mountain won't come to Mohammed... | 0:31:34 | 0:31:36 | |
-It's called a royal progress. -Yes, that is what it is. | 0:31:36 | 0:31:39 | |
A royal progress. | 0:31:39 | 0:31:41 | |
-And this is your retinue. -Yeah. | 0:31:41 | 0:31:44 | |
My Chaucerian band, I like to think of them as. | 0:31:44 | 0:31:47 | |
That's sort of essential part of this journey? | 0:31:47 | 0:31:50 | |
We are the ideal family on tour. | 0:31:50 | 0:31:52 | |
-LAUGHTER -My ideal family. | 0:31:52 | 0:31:56 | |
And why is Philippa here, in particular? | 0:31:56 | 0:31:59 | |
What role, Philippa, would you say you have in this? | 0:31:59 | 0:32:02 | |
-Map-reading. -LAUGHTER | 0:32:02 | 0:32:04 | |
No, Philippa is a good map reader, that is what it is. | 0:32:04 | 0:32:07 | |
What's your observation of this trip? | 0:32:08 | 0:32:11 | |
What impact is it having, do you think, on Grayson? | 0:32:11 | 0:32:14 | |
There is a form of psychology that actually originated in Germany | 0:32:14 | 0:32:17 | |
called Gestalt. | 0:32:17 | 0:32:19 | |
It's about completing something, | 0:32:19 | 0:32:22 | |
about completing a whole sort of cycle of experience. | 0:32:22 | 0:32:26 | |
I think there was something incomplete | 0:32:26 | 0:32:28 | |
about those war games that Grayson played as a child | 0:32:28 | 0:32:32 | |
and I think this is sort of like a peace process | 0:32:32 | 0:32:38 | |
that completes that Gestalt. | 0:32:38 | 0:32:40 | |
-I like that. That feels right. -Thank you. | 0:32:40 | 0:32:44 | |
-Quite touched. It's good. -Aw. | 0:32:44 | 0:32:48 | |
I like that. It's true. That is what it is. | 0:32:48 | 0:32:51 | |
It's what I always do, though. | 0:32:51 | 0:32:53 | |
I kind of do what I feel like I should do | 0:32:53 | 0:32:55 | |
and then I find out what it was about later. | 0:32:55 | 0:32:59 | |
The pilgrimage culminated in Chelmsford's twin town of Backnang. | 0:33:02 | 0:33:08 | |
Hello, Backnang! | 0:33:32 | 0:33:34 | |
You may ask, "What is this man doing?" | 0:33:34 | 0:33:39 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:33:39 | 0:33:41 | |
Backnang is twinned with Chelmsford. | 0:33:41 | 0:33:44 | |
I was born in Chelmsford. | 0:33:44 | 0:33:46 | |
Alan Measles was born in Chelmsford. | 0:33:46 | 0:33:49 | |
We have been together for 50 years. | 0:33:49 | 0:33:52 | |
And when I was a child, he fought the Germans. | 0:33:52 | 0:33:56 | |
Because, in my games, so here was a place | 0:33:56 | 0:34:01 | |
he comes to make peace with Germany | 0:34:01 | 0:34:03 | |
because he is old now. | 0:34:03 | 0:34:07 | |
I am moved by this wonderful, wonderful welcome | 0:34:07 | 0:34:12 | |
and send-off and I thank you all for coming very, very much. Thank you. | 0:34:12 | 0:34:17 | |
LIVELY BRASS BAND PLAYS | 0:34:17 | 0:34:19 | |
'It was just as I hoped. | 0:34:30 | 0:34:32 | |
'The band, nice weather, | 0:34:32 | 0:34:34 | |
'the mayor and the mayoress. It was all good. | 0:34:34 | 0:34:39 | |
'Even Backnang itself looks like a postcard of a German town. | 0:34:39 | 0:34:44 | |
'When it happens I quite like the fact | 0:34:44 | 0:34:47 | |
'when the world lives up to the cliche, lives up to the postcard.' | 0:34:47 | 0:34:52 | |
Goodbye, Backnang! | 0:34:52 | 0:34:54 | |
'I think the fact that I took Alan Measles around Germany | 0:34:55 | 0:34:58 | |
'is really important to this show. | 0:34:58 | 0:35:01 | |
'I really did it so therefore, for starters, | 0:35:01 | 0:35:04 | |
'when they see the motorcycle, it has been on a real journey | 0:35:04 | 0:35:07 | |
'which has a mythological element to it.' | 0:35:07 | 0:35:11 | |
Which then makes a link to the fact that the people are there, | 0:35:11 | 0:35:15 | |
they are coming, they are really coming to the thing. | 0:35:15 | 0:35:17 | |
Then there are the kind of imaginative elements to the show. | 0:35:17 | 0:35:22 | |
And the fact also that I have set a kind of model for them | 0:35:22 | 0:35:26 | |
to try out themselves. | 0:35:26 | 0:35:28 | |
I like the fact that people can go up and think, | 0:35:28 | 0:35:30 | |
"I would like to do my own pilgrimage." | 0:35:30 | 0:35:32 | |
Back in the UK, Perry has to finalise his selection | 0:35:36 | 0:35:39 | |
of some 170 pieces from the British Museum's collection. | 0:35:39 | 0:35:43 | |
The museum can only display around 80,000 | 0:35:45 | 0:35:47 | |
of the more than eight million objects which it owns. | 0:35:47 | 0:35:50 | |
-These sort of things, yeah. -These are the moulded ones. | 0:35:53 | 0:35:57 | |
I like these. | 0:35:57 | 0:35:59 | |
'I am a great lover of things. I still want to see the actual object. | 0:35:59 | 0:36:05 | |
'I think that is an important relationship to have. | 0:36:05 | 0:36:08 | |
'I don't think we have changed that much. | 0:36:08 | 0:36:10 | |
'People still come to museums, in a way, in the same spirit | 0:36:10 | 0:36:13 | |
'as they would have trouped to Canterbury | 0:36:13 | 0:36:15 | |
'to see the relics of Thomas a Becket.' | 0:36:15 | 0:36:17 | |
These are from the Pagoda of Mingun, just upstream from Mandalay. | 0:36:17 | 0:36:23 | |
'We come to see the actual thing, | 0:36:23 | 0:36:27 | |
'made and touched by the craftsmen of history. | 0:36:27 | 0:36:31 | |
'And marvel at their skill. | 0:36:31 | 0:36:35 | |
'I suppose I am using that impulse in trying to create an exhibition | 0:36:37 | 0:36:44 | |
'that suggests a pilgrimage to a place in our heads.' | 0:36:44 | 0:36:51 | |
This is from western India. It's a little box shrine. | 0:36:53 | 0:36:59 | |
Oh, wow! | 0:37:01 | 0:37:03 | |
Compelling that it is so reminiscent of a Gothic altarpiece. | 0:37:03 | 0:37:10 | |
Same kind of principle. | 0:37:10 | 0:37:12 | |
I think it is probably more 20th century. | 0:37:12 | 0:37:14 | |
Yeah. | 0:37:14 | 0:37:15 | |
The very interesting thing about this, which may interest you, | 0:37:17 | 0:37:22 | |
giving your concern with pilgrimage, | 0:37:22 | 0:37:24 | |
is that this object travelled to Tibet... | 0:37:24 | 0:37:28 | |
So how old is it? | 0:37:28 | 0:37:30 | |
It was made some time in the 11th or 12th century. | 0:37:30 | 0:37:33 | |
A really old one, yeah. | 0:37:33 | 0:37:35 | |
It doesn't get my juices going as much as that at all. | 0:37:35 | 0:37:38 | |
-Really? -No. There is something... | 0:37:38 | 0:37:41 | |
I find there is more vitality in that | 0:37:41 | 0:37:44 | |
and that is something I treasure more highly than refinement. | 0:37:44 | 0:37:47 | |
I think it is quite unsettling to curators | 0:37:51 | 0:37:54 | |
at the BM because it all seems vague to them, | 0:37:54 | 0:37:57 | |
the way I am working. | 0:37:57 | 0:38:00 | |
I look through the collection and go, "I like that." | 0:38:00 | 0:38:02 | |
They'll go, "This is the significant one with the history and narrative | 0:38:02 | 0:38:06 | |
"and importance." I'll go, "I like that one better." | 0:38:06 | 0:38:08 | |
For whatever reason. | 0:38:08 | 0:38:11 | |
It doesn't mean that my way of doing it is necessarily lesser, | 0:38:11 | 0:38:14 | |
it's just different. | 0:38:14 | 0:38:16 | |
I am there because I am an expert in looking. | 0:38:16 | 0:38:19 | |
That's my job. I look at things and I trust my intuition. | 0:38:19 | 0:38:23 | |
I make choices - that is why I am doing the show. | 0:38:23 | 0:38:27 | |
The thing I am most impressed by is the proper richness | 0:38:27 | 0:38:30 | |
but also the fact that there is a good eye at work. | 0:38:30 | 0:38:33 | |
'I definitely want to put a folk costume in | 0:38:35 | 0:38:37 | |
'because I have had a lifelong love of folk costumes. | 0:38:37 | 0:38:41 | |
'It is just finding the one I find most aesthetically appealing.' | 0:38:41 | 0:38:44 | |
These look quite new. Are they recent additions? | 0:38:44 | 0:38:47 | |
They are quite bright colours. | 0:38:47 | 0:38:50 | |
It is finding the costume that kind of satisfies the most boxes. | 0:38:51 | 0:38:56 | |
Would I want to wear it, | 0:38:56 | 0:38:58 | |
is it nicely made as an object | 0:38:58 | 0:39:00 | |
and does it have a kind of ethnographic significance? | 0:39:00 | 0:39:05 | |
I've just not seen one quite like this before | 0:39:09 | 0:39:11 | |
in terms of colour and texture. | 0:39:11 | 0:39:13 | |
Very subtle colour combinations. | 0:39:13 | 0:39:16 | |
I like these dark ones because they wrong-foot me a bit. | 0:39:16 | 0:39:19 | |
There is a sort of, | 0:39:19 | 0:39:22 | |
I suppose if you ask most people what they think folk costumes, | 0:39:22 | 0:39:25 | |
they would think stuff covered in this. | 0:39:25 | 0:39:28 | |
What I like about these is there's a more muted palette | 0:39:28 | 0:39:31 | |
there going on. | 0:39:31 | 0:39:33 | |
I would definitely go out in something like this | 0:39:33 | 0:39:36 | |
but I don't think they are my size. | 0:39:36 | 0:39:38 | |
And so I acknowledge you in your artistic quest. Good luck. | 0:40:04 | 0:40:09 | |
-That's great. Thank you. -All introductions must be made. | 0:40:09 | 0:40:12 | |
I like the idea that if these objects were to travel nowadays, | 0:40:12 | 0:40:17 | |
they are still carrying the same power. | 0:40:17 | 0:40:20 | |
Without a doubt. It's our job to make that living. | 0:40:20 | 0:40:24 | |
The power only resides with the people around it. | 0:40:24 | 0:40:27 | |
It is in our heads, the power, not the object. | 0:40:27 | 0:40:30 | |
It is in both places. | 0:40:30 | 0:40:33 | |
It's in here, and it's here. | 0:40:33 | 0:40:36 | |
Your head doesn't carve that, your hands do. | 0:40:36 | 0:40:40 | |
As an artist, I make things and in many ways, | 0:40:40 | 0:40:43 | |
when I look at the cultural output of other times and places, | 0:40:43 | 0:40:47 | |
I am envious. | 0:40:47 | 0:40:49 | |
When you talk about these objects in that way, | 0:40:49 | 0:40:53 | |
I suppose there's a bit of me that would like it | 0:40:53 | 0:40:55 | |
if people talked about my things in that way. | 0:40:55 | 0:40:57 | |
I would like my own objects to be treated with that much respect | 0:40:57 | 0:41:02 | |
and to have that power, I suppose. | 0:41:02 | 0:41:04 | |
At a foundry in Norfolk, | 0:41:23 | 0:41:25 | |
Grayson gets his first look | 0:41:25 | 0:41:27 | |
at the completed Tomb of the Unknown Craftsman. | 0:41:27 | 0:41:30 | |
Tom has cast all the pieces I made in ceramic now. | 0:41:30 | 0:41:33 | |
We are just starting to assemble them | 0:41:33 | 0:41:36 | |
for a kind of, to see the sort of form, | 0:41:36 | 0:41:39 | |
if you like, in its entirety for the first time. | 0:41:39 | 0:41:42 | |
'It is an easy sentence to say, | 0:41:44 | 0:41:46 | |
'"Could you please cast this in iron for me?" | 0:41:46 | 0:41:50 | |
'It is over a year's hard work for Tom and his crew. | 0:41:50 | 0:41:54 | |
'For me it is like my spiritual material. | 0:41:54 | 0:41:57 | |
'Iron, for me, has a kind of mystique. | 0:41:57 | 0:41:59 | |
'It's the material of heavy manufacture. | 0:41:59 | 0:42:02 | |
'It's the material of sort of agriculture. | 0:42:02 | 0:42:08 | |
'The rusting farm machine in the corner of the field.' | 0:42:08 | 0:42:10 | |
Maybe shouldn't have left that until the very last! | 0:42:10 | 0:42:14 | |
It is really exciting to see it | 0:42:14 | 0:42:16 | |
because no-one has seen it all together before. | 0:42:16 | 0:42:20 | |
It is our year's work, and all of a sudden, | 0:42:20 | 0:42:23 | |
it looks like a boat, it's fantastic. | 0:42:23 | 0:42:25 | |
It is exciting. | 0:42:25 | 0:42:27 | |
If this is the Tomb of the Unknown Craftsman, | 0:42:27 | 0:42:31 | |
he has the archetypal tool as the kind of holy relic, if you like. | 0:42:31 | 0:42:35 | |
The tool that begat all tools. | 0:42:35 | 0:42:38 | |
In this reliquary on the top here, like a sort of jewel, | 0:42:38 | 0:42:42 | |
rests a real quarter-of-a-million- year-old flint hand axe. | 0:42:42 | 0:42:48 | |
This is a genuine 250,000- year-old flint. | 0:42:48 | 0:42:51 | |
Person at the BM thinks it probably came from Essex, | 0:42:53 | 0:42:56 | |
which is marvellously appropriate. | 0:42:56 | 0:42:58 | |
This is like the precious jewel. | 0:42:58 | 0:43:01 | |
And of all the things that I have kind of handled and seen | 0:43:01 | 0:43:05 | |
and discovered in my travels through the British Museum, | 0:43:05 | 0:43:09 | |
I think that holding one of these is the most potent and moving | 0:43:09 | 0:43:12 | |
experience of the whole trip. | 0:43:12 | 0:43:17 | |
Because when you put your hand around one of these, | 0:43:17 | 0:43:19 | |
it is the ergonomics of it, | 0:43:19 | 0:43:21 | |
you think of the way it was used and that connection, that simple, | 0:43:21 | 0:43:25 | |
human connection, going back all those thousands and thousands of years, | 0:43:25 | 0:43:28 | |
there is something amazingly potent about it. | 0:43:28 | 0:43:31 | |
This is, you know, this is the beginning of craftsmanship. | 0:43:31 | 0:43:34 | |
This is the holy grail of the craftsmen. | 0:43:34 | 0:43:39 | |
I have made my reliquary there and it will sit on the top. | 0:43:39 | 0:43:44 | |
It is kind of, the whole show rotates around this centre of this tool. | 0:43:44 | 0:43:51 | |
I think that's right. Everything has to be preciously handled. | 0:44:04 | 0:44:08 | |
Is it all right? | 0:44:12 | 0:44:15 | |
Mind your backs. | 0:44:17 | 0:44:19 | |
We are building the tomb. | 0:44:19 | 0:44:20 | |
It is quite a nerve-racking moment because it bears | 0:44:20 | 0:44:24 | |
quite a lot of responsibility for making a good exhibition. | 0:44:24 | 0:44:27 | |
It is the thing where I have worked, | 0:44:27 | 0:44:29 | |
it is the piece I've worked with the British Museum on. | 0:44:29 | 0:44:31 | |
It is covered in casts that either are related to things | 0:44:31 | 0:44:35 | |
or actually of objects in the British Museum. | 0:44:35 | 0:44:39 | |
It is the thing that I wanted to feel | 0:44:56 | 0:44:58 | |
the most kind of real. | 0:44:58 | 0:45:01 | |
You know, it is a real thing. | 0:45:01 | 0:45:03 | |
In the end, it is about whether they find is beautiful | 0:45:03 | 0:45:05 | |
and fascinating and gorgeous and attractive and moving. | 0:45:05 | 0:45:09 | |
I do think, being surrounded by all of this amazing history | 0:45:10 | 0:45:14 | |
and the different cultures from all over the world and, | 0:45:14 | 0:45:17 | |
to a certain extent, a lot of pieces from my own history, | 0:45:17 | 0:45:21 | |
that does add weight to this very moment. | 0:45:21 | 0:45:24 | |
That is what this show is about. | 0:45:24 | 0:45:26 | |
That is why this is the centrepiece to this show. | 0:45:26 | 0:45:29 | |
It's about coming on a journey through the world's culture | 0:45:29 | 0:45:34 | |
and also my own mythology with Alan Measles, | 0:45:34 | 0:45:38 | |
with works from my past and the kind of themes I am interested in. | 0:45:38 | 0:45:43 | |
You come to this and this is a sort of, like, yeah, | 0:45:43 | 0:45:48 | |
this is the end of the pilgrimage. | 0:45:48 | 0:45:51 | |
I like that idea that it has a real full stop to it. | 0:45:51 | 0:45:57 | |
Half an inch forward. That's it. | 0:45:57 | 0:46:01 | |
My kind of instinct, I suppose, | 0:46:09 | 0:46:11 | |
would be to pile it on until it was completely overwhelming. | 0:46:11 | 0:46:14 | |
Some of the other things, the figures in the show, | 0:46:14 | 0:46:16 | |
there is a lot of detail in them you can't ever see. | 0:46:16 | 0:46:19 | |
Because it is so covered over with stuff. | 0:46:19 | 0:46:22 | |
I almost feel one can sense that from when one looks at the thing. | 0:46:22 | 0:46:26 | |
It is like the gargoyles at the top of the cathedral, | 0:46:26 | 0:46:28 | |
made by the ancient craftsmen. | 0:46:28 | 0:46:31 | |
They knew no-one would ever see them, but somehow, | 0:46:31 | 0:46:34 | |
when you look at the cathedral, you know it's there. | 0:46:34 | 0:46:37 | |
The fact that the archetypal craftsman | 0:46:47 | 0:46:50 | |
in my personal mythology is my father, | 0:46:50 | 0:46:52 | |
that, to a certain extent, has faded. | 0:46:52 | 0:46:55 | |
That doesn't mean that it isn't informing me unconsciously | 0:46:55 | 0:46:58 | |
all the time, I am open to that idea. | 0:46:58 | 0:47:01 | |
In fact, I came to this museum at six years old | 0:47:01 | 0:47:06 | |
and we got into the lift and the man in the lift said, | 0:47:06 | 0:47:10 | |
"What do you want to see?" I said, "I like models." | 0:47:10 | 0:47:13 | |
He said, "They've got model boats in the Egyptian department." | 0:47:13 | 0:47:16 | |
We found the model boats and I was pretty disappointed with them. | 0:47:16 | 0:47:19 | |
They were pretty basic. | 0:47:19 | 0:47:21 | |
They weren't half as glamorous and shiny and intricate | 0:47:21 | 0:47:25 | |
and authentic as the ones I had at home. | 0:47:25 | 0:47:28 | |
I was pretty disappointed with the British Museum. | 0:47:28 | 0:47:31 | |
Maybe this is payback time, I don't know! | 0:47:31 | 0:47:34 | |
You know, making a whole show that has a model boat for a centrepiece. | 0:47:35 | 0:47:41 | |
I think, quite often, we are that transparent. | 0:47:41 | 0:47:45 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:47:45 | 0:47:47 | |
-Neil! -Hello. How are you? | 0:47:49 | 0:47:52 | |
Did you do this specifically for this exhibition? | 0:47:52 | 0:47:55 | |
I did it specifically for this place. | 0:47:55 | 0:47:58 | |
-This place in this exhibition? -Yeah. | 0:47:58 | 0:48:00 | |
They are all the things I thought people might come with before. | 0:48:00 | 0:48:04 | |
-They come with in their head? -Yes. | 0:48:04 | 0:48:06 | |
That could be... That says more about me, probably, than about them. | 0:48:06 | 0:48:10 | |
People will actually be walking around inside my head. | 0:48:10 | 0:48:13 | |
That is what this exhibition is about. | 0:48:13 | 0:48:15 | |
A walk round Grayson Perry's head. | 0:48:15 | 0:48:17 | |
The first three things they see, the three helmets. | 0:48:17 | 0:48:20 | |
People say, "Which one is the BM object?" | 0:48:20 | 0:48:23 | |
-You go for the middle one. -Of course. | 0:48:23 | 0:48:25 | |
I assumed that was the BM one, | 0:48:25 | 0:48:27 | |
-and that you had designed this. -Because it is quite tinselly, this. | 0:48:27 | 0:48:31 | |
It is a great bling hat, isn't it? I had assumed this was yours. | 0:48:31 | 0:48:36 | |
I thought, this looks like this is Grayson being playful. | 0:48:36 | 0:48:40 | |
I then discovered it's the great Ashanti chief's headdress from Ghana. | 0:48:40 | 0:48:44 | |
All these are solid gold and it is a great ritual object. | 0:48:44 | 0:48:50 | |
And it's, well, I looked at it with completely fresh eyes. | 0:48:50 | 0:48:53 | |
Good. If I can make YOU look at something with fresh eyes...! | 0:48:53 | 0:48:59 | |
When my letter came through the door and you saw my proposal, | 0:48:59 | 0:49:02 | |
what did you think? | 0:49:02 | 0:49:03 | |
What I thought of at once was Sutton Hoo. | 0:49:03 | 0:49:05 | |
Because the Sutton Hoo burial is really, | 0:49:05 | 0:49:10 | |
seems to me, the nearest thing we have got to this exhibition. | 0:49:10 | 0:49:13 | |
You have got this extraordinary assemblage of objects. | 0:49:17 | 0:49:20 | |
From Ireland to the eastern Mediterranean. | 0:49:20 | 0:49:23 | |
Some of them are ritual, some of them are just luxury. | 0:49:23 | 0:49:26 | |
Some of them we don't know at all what they are about. | 0:49:26 | 0:49:29 | |
-They come from all over the known world. -Together, yes. | 0:49:29 | 0:49:33 | |
And they are there in that place. Something to do with one man. | 0:49:33 | 0:49:36 | |
I thought you were suggesting creating something very, very alike. | 0:49:36 | 0:49:41 | |
That's what your letter made me think of. | 0:49:41 | 0:49:43 | |
This is actually what all archaeology is. | 0:49:43 | 0:49:46 | |
-Looking at this funny grouping. -That is very beautifully put. | 0:49:46 | 0:49:50 | |
I am quite touched by that, yeah. | 0:49:50 | 0:49:52 | |
-Now, this is... -LAUGHTER | 0:49:53 | 0:49:55 | |
-This I had to have in because... -She's got to be here, hasn't she? | 0:49:55 | 0:49:59 | |
This still astonishes people. | 0:49:59 | 0:50:01 | |
Because they don't realise that here, on our doorstep... | 0:50:01 | 0:50:05 | |
On the church, you put this figure. | 0:50:05 | 0:50:07 | |
What's new to us is this kind of conversation. | 0:50:07 | 0:50:10 | |
These objects that we would never have put together. | 0:50:10 | 0:50:13 | |
And all the way through, the way you have put objects | 0:50:13 | 0:50:16 | |
either from different bits of the museum's collection | 0:50:16 | 0:50:20 | |
or with your objects, | 0:50:20 | 0:50:22 | |
in conversations that just couldn't happen otherwise. | 0:50:22 | 0:50:25 | |
Now. Now you see, Sutton Hoo was right. This is Sutton Hoo, isn't it? | 0:50:25 | 0:50:30 | |
-Here is the funeral ship. -The funeral ship. | 0:50:30 | 0:50:33 | |
Laden with treasure and all the great things from the museum. | 0:50:33 | 0:50:37 | |
-The Roman dish. -Yeah. Flood tablet. | 0:50:37 | 0:50:39 | |
The Ife head. This really is the shrine, isn't it? | 0:50:39 | 0:50:43 | |
It is the end point of the whole journey of the exhibition. | 0:50:43 | 0:50:47 | |
It is also the end point for the purpose of the museum, isn't it? | 0:50:47 | 0:50:50 | |
Here, in one place, are all these things. | 0:50:50 | 0:50:55 | |
And they are all travelling together for some kind of purpose. | 0:50:55 | 0:51:00 | |
The job of everybody coming through is to sort out what that purpose is. | 0:51:00 | 0:51:05 | |
Here you are, Grayson. In the British Museum. | 0:51:54 | 0:51:58 | |
Yeah. I don't think it has fully sunk in yet. | 0:51:58 | 0:52:00 | |
I have been so involved with the making of it all | 0:52:00 | 0:52:04 | |
that it feels like I should fit, | 0:52:04 | 0:52:07 | |
it should be, "Life's ambition, tick." | 0:52:07 | 0:52:09 | |
You know, but it doesn't quite feel like that yet. | 0:52:09 | 0:52:11 | |
It says this is, of course, the Tomb of the Unknown Craftsman. | 0:52:11 | 0:52:15 | |
You slightly don't fit that mould, do you? | 0:52:15 | 0:52:18 | |
Even when you arrived here, you were certainly not anonymous, | 0:52:18 | 0:52:21 | |
and you're going to be less anonymous by the time | 0:52:21 | 0:52:24 | |
this exhibition goes on display. | 0:52:24 | 0:52:25 | |
Yeah. It is ironic that I am, I suppose, a celebrity artist. | 0:52:25 | 0:52:30 | |
I said that almost as if like saying, | 0:52:30 | 0:52:33 | |
"I am one of these plonkers that come in on their vanity projects." | 0:52:33 | 0:52:38 | |
In order to highlight the fact that I am actually | 0:52:38 | 0:52:43 | |
tiptoeing around my own seriousness, that is what I am doing. | 0:52:43 | 0:52:47 | |
So I'm protecting my tender relationship with beauty | 0:52:47 | 0:52:51 | |
and culture from the harsh forces of the media spotlight. | 0:52:51 | 0:52:55 | |
I kind of say, "Ha! Yeah! This is just me having fun," | 0:52:55 | 0:52:59 | |
but in fact, this is something I have dedicated my life to. | 0:52:59 | 0:53:02 | |
The way that you have always said, "I am a craftsman. | 0:53:02 | 0:53:05 | |
"I belong to this tradition. I am proud to be part of this tradition." | 0:53:05 | 0:53:08 | |
You have always said it. | 0:53:08 | 0:53:10 | |
In that sense, you do, you are here to draw attention to the rest of you. | 0:53:10 | 0:53:15 | |
To say, these works were made by artists, too. | 0:53:15 | 0:53:19 | |
Yeah, and I think it is interesting that, you know, | 0:53:19 | 0:53:21 | |
I am not ashamed to come from a contemporary art tribe, | 0:53:21 | 0:53:24 | |
but by coming here to the museum, for me, has highlighted | 0:53:24 | 0:53:28 | |
the very traditions and orthodoxies of the contemporary art world. | 0:53:28 | 0:53:34 | |
Here is a museum for a general audience | 0:53:34 | 0:53:37 | |
and its objects come from all different directions. | 0:53:37 | 0:53:40 | |
There isn't this accepted thing of, "This is a contemporary art object." | 0:53:40 | 0:53:47 | |
In a way I want to say, I am an artist. | 0:53:47 | 0:53:49 | |
I am not a contemporary artist, I am just an artist. | 0:53:49 | 0:53:51 | |
What's Alan's view of the exhibition? | 0:53:51 | 0:53:54 | |
He thinks it's entirely about him. | 0:53:54 | 0:53:57 | |
But there was something inescapably missing from the show. | 0:53:58 | 0:54:01 | |
Where was Alan Measles himself? | 0:54:03 | 0:54:05 | |
It is amazing to think it has been on this long journey. | 0:54:07 | 0:54:10 | |
-It looks pristine, doesn't it? -It's a motorbike. | 0:54:10 | 0:54:12 | |
It is made for transportation and it survived very well. | 0:54:12 | 0:54:15 | |
-That is Alan's... -That is not Alan. | 0:54:16 | 0:54:19 | |
No, that is his stunt double. | 0:54:19 | 0:54:21 | |
That is Pinny. She is the same age and actually from the same... | 0:54:21 | 0:54:25 | |
-That is Pinny? -Yeah. | 0:54:25 | 0:54:27 | |
Doesn't this sort of undermine the whole project? | 0:54:28 | 0:54:32 | |
I thought this was Alan Measles' project. | 0:54:32 | 0:54:34 | |
Why would Pinny be here and not him? | 0:54:34 | 0:54:36 | |
He doesn't want to sit in a museum for three months. | 0:54:36 | 0:54:39 | |
-I feel cheated. -Do you? | 0:54:39 | 0:54:41 | |
I quite like the idea that, you know, | 0:54:41 | 0:54:44 | |
he is out there and than entity, as a god. | 0:54:44 | 0:54:46 | |
I didn't want to, | 0:54:46 | 0:54:48 | |
I almost feel like the reality might kind of... | 0:54:48 | 0:54:52 | |
Do you know how many precious things there are in this museum? | 0:54:52 | 0:54:56 | |
Worth tens of millions of pounds? Things that are priceless. | 0:54:56 | 0:55:01 | |
But somehow Alan Measles is so priceless you are not prepared to... | 0:55:02 | 0:55:07 | |
I think if we are really going to get therapeutic about this now... | 0:55:08 | 0:55:12 | |
Why not? | 0:55:12 | 0:55:14 | |
It would be that I don't even trust the British Museum | 0:55:14 | 0:55:17 | |
to look after Alan, he's too precious. | 0:55:17 | 0:55:19 | |
'Grayson's refusal to part with Alan Measles reminded me | 0:55:23 | 0:55:28 | |
'of something I had witnessed more than a year ago in Germany. | 0:55:28 | 0:55:32 | |
'A sort of Rosebud moment where I'd learnt that to unlock the secrets | 0:55:32 | 0:55:35 | |
'of Grayson Perry's one-man civilisation, | 0:55:35 | 0:55:39 | |
'a teddy bear is the key.' | 0:55:39 | 0:55:41 | |
Big day for Alan. | 0:55:41 | 0:55:43 | |
'How lovely to see you. Welcome to the world of Steiff. | 0:55:48 | 0:55:52 | |
'It's still a little bit like it used to be. | 0:55:52 | 0:55:57 | |
'I was born here in Giengen in 1847. | 0:55:57 | 0:56:02 | |
'When I was one and a half, | 0:56:02 | 0:56:04 | |
'I was diagnosed with an illness that changed me. | 0:56:04 | 0:56:07 | |
'For children, only the best is good enough. | 0:56:07 | 0:56:10 | |
'Yes. That's how it all began.' | 0:56:10 | 0:56:13 | |
'I didn't see you there. Never mind. I am in charge here. | 0:56:13 | 0:56:18 | |
'Most important of all, he invented me.' | 0:56:18 | 0:56:22 | |
'It's so dark here and it is so creepy. | 0:56:29 | 0:56:34 | |
'Oh dear.' | 0:56:36 | 0:56:39 | |
Alan is horrified. It is against all he stands for. | 0:56:39 | 0:56:42 | |
It, it's... | 0:56:43 | 0:56:46 | |
-'what do we do now?' -'Shall I tell you? I have no idea.' | 0:56:49 | 0:56:54 | |
I am worried about him. I wonder what's going through his head. | 0:56:54 | 0:56:59 | |
Why is it so upsetting, | 0:57:01 | 0:57:03 | |
even though you might have expected it to be like this? | 0:57:03 | 0:57:07 | |
Because it feels kind of exploitative. | 0:57:07 | 0:57:10 | |
When I think of the relationship I had with my teddy, | 0:57:10 | 0:57:15 | |
and how completely potent and unspoken a symbol he was, | 0:57:15 | 0:57:21 | |
if you had asked me when I was a child, I would have expressed, | 0:57:21 | 0:57:26 | |
through my actions, how important he was to me | 0:57:26 | 0:57:29 | |
but I wouldn't have been able to put it into words. | 0:57:29 | 0:57:31 | |
It's testament to how precious he was that he is the only artefact | 0:57:31 | 0:57:34 | |
from my childhood I have. | 0:57:34 | 0:57:36 | |
I don't have any photos, I don't have anything else at all. | 0:57:36 | 0:57:40 | |
-It all resides in him? -Yeah. It is pretty potent. | 0:57:40 | 0:57:46 | |
He is a serious talisman. | 0:57:46 | 0:57:48 | |
I think we'd better get you back for some therapy. | 0:57:48 | 0:57:50 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:57:50 | 0:57:52 | |
It was a joke that I set up Alan was a god, | 0:57:52 | 0:57:55 | |
but also not, | 0:57:55 | 0:57:57 | |
in that he is the nearest I have got to a god. | 0:57:57 | 0:58:00 | |
Because he is, when you, religion, | 0:58:01 | 0:58:06 | |
its power, is often because someone has grown up with it. | 0:58:06 | 0:58:09 | |
It is part of their, it has shaped them emotionally, | 0:58:09 | 0:58:13 | |
it's their family, society. | 0:58:13 | 0:58:16 | |
Therefore, it's woven into their emotional DNA when they grow up. | 0:58:16 | 0:58:21 | |
That is what Alan is for me, that is as near as I've got to that. | 0:58:21 | 0:58:24 | |
It is the same limbic system in my brain | 0:58:24 | 0:58:28 | |
that has embraced Alan, | 0:58:28 | 0:58:30 | |
that embraces religion in people who believe. | 0:58:30 | 0:58:34 | |
So therefore, it is a serious thing. | 0:58:34 | 0:58:37 | |
It is a match to a religion. | 0:58:37 | 0:58:40 | |
It can seem like a joke but it is coming from the same place. | 0:58:44 | 0:58:47 | |
MUSIC: "(Let Me Be Your) Teddy Bear" IN GERMAN | 0:58:47 | 0:58:50 | |
Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd | 0:59:04 | 0:59:06 | |
E-mail [email protected] | 0:59:06 | 0:59:09 |