Shani Rhys James What Do Artists Do All Day?

What I do is I make people face things

they don't necessarily want to face.

I think everybody's had these experiences of feeling alone

or misunderstood.

They're the sort of things that I work on.

But it's not conscious.

I don't go, "I'm going to do a painting about somebody that feels..."

I just sort of think, well, I'll just see where this takes me.

CLOCK TICKS

SHE GROANS

WATER RUNS

KETTLE BOILS

Yoghurt...

Yoghurt's up here.

I'm a bit tired this morning.

I know, did you sleep?

-No, I woke up at three o'clock in the morning again.

-Hm.

Mm. And it goes so quickly.

The three or four hours till seven o'clock...it'll whizz by.

I bet you did sleep.

What else was I thinking about that I had to do?

I'm sort of excited, but...

-Hi.

-Hello.

-Nice to see you.

-Good to see you.

-Hi.

-Hi, Tim.

This exhibition, which are all my paintings,

is also going incorporate this room.

It's an audience of painting...

It is a bit.

You become, like me being in here, I'm now the subject of my painting.

Without having to do a painting of me.

Do you want a coffee, Tim?

Yeah, please.

Oh, there's a little bird inside.

Little robin, you were in here the other day, weren't you?

Out you go. Come on.

Out you go.

Come on.

Quite nice, that little bird in here.

Make such a difference when that room is out of the studio.

In a way it's taking up space from painting,

cos I need that sort of space to think about the painting.

Ecological...coffee.

BANGING

There we go.

I should move that painting out the way, Steve.

When are you doing that one? The red one?

I'll be doing that later on today.

That'll take me about a month to do that painting.

I mean, it could take me two weeks, it just depends.

Sometimes it can happen very quickly and then other times it...

-We're set.

-Fantastic.

Thank you very much. See you soon.

I was born in Australia, in Melbourne.

My mother was an actress and my stepdad was a theatre director.

My mother was in the role of Nora in A Doll's House,

directed by my stepdad.

Everybody was saying she was marvellous,

brilliant in the performance, actually.

And she thought you had to go to London,

you should be acting in London.

So we got the boat from Melbourne

and we came on the Oriana in 1963.

THEY CHATTER

We're clearing the back wall

so that we can put the big red painting there.

So that I can paint on it.

And then we're going to try to get some of the paintings out that

I want to refer to, which I like having round me.

Put it on that bit of wood.

I think this is very much about arriving in England...

for the first time from Australia, when I was nine.

And really, what I remember most vividly is the snow,

which I'd never seen before.

It was this thick cos it was 1963 - the worst winter ever.

And we had little thin shoes, like this.

Cos Australian winters are not the same, they're like now - autumn.

Anyway, we got to this house where we were meant to stay and this

window went up this woman said, "There's been a terrible mistake."

"Never mind," she said,

"Come upstairs and I'll give you a cup of tea and an omelette."

So we went upstairs, she was flicking through the phonebook

like this to find a hotel for us.

And I just saw that this little girl had this beautiful

doll's house and all these toys and comfort

and a cosy little interior and it was all very nice and civilised.

And we... So sad, isn't it?

Went out into the cold again, into the taxi to a really grim hotel.

And the only thing I remember about that is the wallpaper.

This is why the wallpaper's everywhere.

The wallpaper, this...

It might not have been,

but I seems to think that it was flock wallpaper.

It was so evocative of luxury...

The flockless, the sensuality of it, but in these rather grim bedsits.

So the wallpaper is very much about both of us,

in a way...

being in our own little...

world of dealing with it.

And I think when people go through something,

they tend to be quite self-enclosed, they're not really...

They're not sharing - there's not an arm around, it's just like coping.

In coping mode. So, um, I don't know what I felt.

I don't know whether it was me, or whether it is me.

It isn't me any more,

it's just a memory or some kind of glimpse of something.

Probably less compassionate about my mother here.

I'm seeing her more tough. Well, she's having to be really.

Had to be quite tough and...

But it's really the relationship on a broader level.

From a more, kind of, open level.

It's really about the relationship between a mother and her daughter.

And also, the idea that a mother

is having to survive

and she's got a career,

she's sort of a contemporary woman

and that daughter or that child has to fit into that scheme of things.

So, you know...

I don't know why I'm doing this at the moment.

I think I'm doing it because of my mother reaching a certain age,

in her 80s.

At a certain stage, you hope you've reached some kind of compassion

and understanding about your parents.

Cos they're just people.

I've always been intrigued by automata.

These are things that are inspiration, actually,

when you look at them.

You sort of remember where your brain's gone or how it's going.

But having these things and listening to that turning around...

it's part of me.

It's part of my work. It's part of everything, really.

MUSIC PLAYS FROM AUTOMATON

METALLIC DING

VOICE FROM PIECE

METALLIC DING

VOICE FROM PIECE

And in this my mum's...

I got her to record her most significant parts, really.

I just thought that she was the most appropriate person,

and I think she enjoyed it.

VOICE FROM PIECE: I have been greatly wronged.

First my father, and then by you.

KETTLE BOILS

WATER POURS

I always start painting at about nine, really, ideally, but because

of today, and the installation being collected,

of course it's messed up my routine.

This painting, I started last week,

and I've done a red undercoat on it, and the next process is...

I can't decide.

I can't decide whether to have, as in the installation,

the enormous flowers so that you get the sense of the figure

almost consumed by the flowers.

Or, I could have a plain background.

I'm going, still, through that dilemma in my head.

So let's see what happens when I get to the studio.

SHE COUGHS

Right.

I need to look at this a minute.

I just want to look at the red.

Decide what I want to do.

Cos once I start, embark on the big black circles

ready for the flowers, there's no turning back.

So what do I do?

Hm.

Might start with the biggest first.

You see, the thing with a painting is if I knew how to do it,

I wouldn't do it, would I?

If I knew what I was going to do, I wouldn't do it.

Because it would be really boring.

I don't see me in these paintings

but I see an experience, a past experience of a past self.

I'm trying to explore

and make sense of my own personal mythology, if you like.

You use your own experience as material.

Sometimes, it's quite nice to go into things where you do feel hurt.

As long as it's not too bad.

It's quite a sweet sadness, really.

I'm going to have to stop now and reappraise.

Aagh!

Anyway...

I might like a little moment on my own to just have...

..some...sanctuary.

It's a bit like meditation, really.

You know, you don't do it... to an audience.

I suppose I should have done the wallpaper, really.

I knew this would happen, I just felt like I had to get into it.

So I might have a complete failure today

and have to start all over again tomorrow.

That often happens.

I'll come back to it, I think.

I'll just have a break.

I just need to just get away...and come back in and surprise myself.

You sort of get away.

And then come back in.

Oh, shit.

I'll come back in a minute.

Just leave it like that.

Anyway.

I should have done the bloody wallpaper.

I'll be back in a minute.

Be all right.

Oh, shit.

I think an artist has to live with an artist, because I don't think

people understand artists because, you know,

not many people understand why anybody would do this.

I suppose we've got used, working here over 20/30 years,

to giving each other space when you need it and then other times,

having a conversation about something when you need it.

Sometimes that works fine, other times,

it could be a bit of tension there.

So there's a sort of sensitivity,

I suppose, and also a kind of a practice

and experience of knowing how a person makes art and when

they need to be interrupted and when they don't need to be interrupted.

Sometimes, I like being interrupted.

-You can't tell...

-He doesn't often interrupt me and I want him to.

Sometimes we work next door to each other in the two studios, so if I'm

drawing, for example, in my studio, I find it difficult to work quietly.

-Oh, God, he's noisy.

-Occasionally, that's fine.

Sometimes...

Even if he's just doing a drawing, he's as noisy as anything.

He just bangs, clatters and drops things.

I drop paper and break the charcoal and...

He won't put...

He won't go like, there's a spoon, he'll just go, ker-chum

with everything.

Like, make sure it's on the table, type of thing. It's all right.

I'm quite quiet, aren't I?

You're very quiet, painting.

It's surprising.

It's weird, you'd think I'd be hurling the paint and be all emotional.

Well, it's just the scale...

I suppose I'm emotional, but I'm not noisy with it.

Yes, you work quietly and calmly, I would say.

Intense, kind of...

And those intense moments is why I probably walked out of that studio.

Because the intense moments are very brief.

It's a short period of time that you can really concentrate like that.

We felt a bond with Wales, I suppose because my father's Welsh,

though I never met him until I was 38.

He was from Ceredigion.

-Your mother lived in Llanerchaeron.

-Yes, Llanerchaeron.

And we had been coming up since I was 18, you see.

And you had made paintings about Wales at St Martins.

-Not much. No, I never painted about Wales, actually.

-Oh, right.

No, no, that was Scotland.

Right.

Wait...

That's better light.

Well, the mirror is getting very covered.

Yeah, I should really clean it.

I suppose I just use it as a sort of talisman, really.

I'm just looking at myself, various aspects like the eyes,

where you get the red here in the eye and then light shining on it

and relationship of the light hitting the face at different angles...

It's not like I'm looking under a microscope card.

I'm getting a bit older.

Anyway, so...mm - think up.

It's weird.

I can't rally explain what it's like cos it's not reality

and it's not a likeness I'm after.

And there's not even a person...

it's just an essence of something

which I recognise in some way, subconsciously.

You're trying to simulate a kind of, um, essence of living-ness,

if you like.

It can be magical...

..or it can be a struggle.

In a way, you're almost taking away that conscious brain,

that kind of consciousness of your head.

'Are you looking at the picture, or yourself?'

-I'm looking at the picture.

-'Why do you do that?'

-To see it back-to-front.

-'Why?'

So I can see it freshly.

So I can see it out of context.

'Why does that help?'

-To see it out of context?

-'Hm.'

Er... Because you want to see how...

It's difficult to explain, really.

Surprise yourself, look at it in a way that...

Difficult to explain why, really.

Erm...

I'm just wondering if I should leave it for a minute.

There's something there that I like.

I like the vulnerability of the head.

I quite like the kind of perplexed look in that persona of her.

But, you know, I don't know.

And then I'll do another figure, I think.

This is my space.

This is my brain space, if you like.

In a way, it's like a very calm place

in which to do disturbing paintings.

'Do people see them as disturbing?'

I think people might.

They might not.

Do you find them disturbing?

'A little bit, some of them.'

Everybody brings what they want to it, hopefully.

They're quite open enough to make it

somebody else's story or...

Not story, but you know, interpretation.

A lot of people would probably squirm from them.

I think probably a lot of people would either loathe them

or get something back from them, hopefully.

Erm...

But you know, if there's one person out there that...

gets something back from them, then...

That's not why I do it, do I?

I wouldn't do it for that reason - to get praise or reformation,

I don't...

You want to almost...upset people sometimes.

-'Why?'

-Upset the apple cart.

Well, why would I want to do nice paintings which is going to make

people feel happy and reaffirm their sense of everything being nice?

I mean, I'm not into that, I'm more into sort of being,

creating a disturbance in what I do.

I'm more interested in making somebody feel...

..either empathise or uncomfortable.

I don't...

It's not my problem. I just do what I do.

And I think artists are often shaman, in a way,

they deal with things that other people shy away from.

But you turn pain or tragedy

or experience or suffering

or something like that into something creative.

It's a fantastic thing to be able to paint, really.

I mean, I love it.

I really love painting.

I really love coming in here, and I feel very edgy

when I'm not painting.

I'm not a very good person to live with when I'm not painting.

I was a good mother because I had my painting.

Because I fulfilled myself and my kids never felt that

I was frustrated because I had to look after them.

I've always felt that...

..it's extremely important as a human being

to fulfil yourself, man or woman.

Is it raining?

Oh, can I just put my raincoat over my head?

If you don't mind.

It's a bit wet.

-Glass of wine?

-Go on, then.

Shall we have a glass of wine? Why not?

Cheers.

I went over there and mixed a whole lot of black, thinking

I was going to do the circles, and I ended up doing a figure.

I think it's interesting that the flowers have disappeared for a bit.

That's good.

So the exhibition, put in your diary - 15th November is

the opening of the exhibition in Aberystwyth.

Yup.

No. I know.

I know. Anyway, Mum, I'll talk another time.

Maybe the weekend -

come over for a nice roast dinner or something on Sunday?

OK. God bless, Mum.

Lots of love to Nev.

You've got a big streak of red across your...trousers.

Where'd I get that from?

Can't think!

Can't think.

I'm just going to have a look at my painting, I think.

Oh, this door's stuck.

'Why do you paint?'

Make sense of the world.

Um...

It's just something I do, really.

I've done it so long now,

I can't remember why I did it in the first place.

Um...

It's just my form of expression, you know.

Mm.

Think I'll leave it now.

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