Episode 3: The Battle Continues Hugh's War on Waste

We've got used to buying what we want, when we want it.

But the cost of consuming so much stuff is waste.

Mountains of it.

'Last year I shone the spotlight on the millions of tonnes

'of food that was being trashed.'

That's naughty.

'At home...'

A quarter of all the carrots we buy are thrown away at home.

'..by our supermarkets...'

Oh, my God! Oh, my goodness, look at them.

'..and on our farms.'

Why do we just throw it away? It's madness.

'And I discovered that our throwaway culture doesn't stop at food.'

That is a quality saucepan.

'But waste is the one environmental disaster we can all do something about,

'and you showed that you're willing to make a difference.

'Hundreds of thousands of you joined my rubbish revolution.

'And I'm excited to report that as a result,

'some amazing things have happened.'

50,000 people are getting fed who weren't getting fed before.

Every week.

'And now in the final push, I've got two new targets in my sights -

'packaging overkill...'

This was all that was in the box.

It's a victory for common sense!

'..and a recycling scandal that most of us never knew existed.'

So this is a nightmare!

'I need you more than ever to take on the high-street giants

'who aren't as green as they seem.'

I've got a megaphone and I'm not afraid to use it.

One year, 2.5 billion coffee cups thrown away.

So, join me in my War On Waste.

In the past 15 years, we've trebled the amount that we recycle at home,

but when it comes to the bins on our streets, we're struggling.

Part of the reason for this has been the explosion

in the number of coffee outlets across the UK.

Our love affair with lattes means that in a single year, we throw away

a staggering 2.5 billion innocent-looking cardboard cups.

So, what actually happens to these cups after we bin them?

Early in the morning here in the city, the very busy strip,

lots of coffees going down, and my mission is to find out

where people think their coffee cups are ending up.

What are you going to do with the cup when you finish your drink?

Recycle it.

-Recycling bin or regular bin?

-No, recycling bin, yes.

-I'll put it in a recycling bin.

-You will put in a recycling bin.

-Yes.

-So do you think it's recyclable?

-I would hope so.

What makes you think that cup is recyclable?

Because it's a paper cup and paper is recyclable.

It's a paper cup. Paper is recyclable.

Stands to reason, doesn't it?

So determined is the general public to recycle their coffee cups

that there are more coffee cups in here and in here.

In fact, I can only see one in here, half a dozen in here,

loads in here.

So the public wants to recycle their coffee cups,

the public believes their coffee cups CAN be recycled.

This suggests that they can't.

And, like most of us, until recently,

I also assumed that these cups could be given

a new lease of life, along with the rest of our recyclables.

So what's going on?

To find out more, I'm meeting up with packaging expert Mark Shaylor.

Who'd have thought the world of coffee cups would be so baffling?

What I've been hearing on the street is, "It's a paper cup,

-"it must be recyclable, I'll put in the recycling."

-Absolutely.

People think it's just cardboard with wax on it,

whereas it's actually cardboard with polyethylene on it.

Polyethylene already doesn't sound so nice.

Well, it does its job, it keeps the cup waterproof,

it lets it hold water, or in this case, coffee,

but the problem with it is when it goes into the recycling stream,

it doesn't allow the cardboard to be recycled effectively.

And what makes it worse is it's not just lined with plastic

but you have to use virgin material in the board.

You have to chop down new trees.

So you can't make a cup like this out of recycled paper?

No, because you've got an open seam here.

You get a lot of links in recycled papers and they're not allowed

to be transferred directly into food and therefore

you have to have virgin material.

This symbol here with the arrows pointing round in a triangle,

everybody thinks that's a tick for recycling,

and it kind of makes people think that the whole thing's recyclable.

So there's two things there, firstly the symbol's on the sleeve,

not the cup, so the sleeve,

that has got one set of requirements in terms of recyclability.

Two, the second thing, that doesn't mean recyclable, that can just mean

a way of informing you what material it's made of.

This one's really interesting cos this one has

the equivalent of the sleeve stuck to the outside and that,

that's recyclable, and made of recycled material, and that isn't.

So that's got a little symbol there,

-which people take as a sort of eco-tick of some kind.

-Absolutely.

Have you ever seen anyone take that off and put that

-in the recycling and that in the general waste?

-Only me.

-You're probably the only person in the country who does it.

-Absolutely.

So millions of us are putting these cups into recycling bins,

they're not going to be recycled.

-They have to be sorted out, don't they?

-Yes, someone's got to

solve that problem or you get rid of that entire load of paper,

you can't recycle it because it's too contaminated.

-So this is a nightmare!

-Completely.

Clearly, none of these companies is feeling the pressure

from their customers to act on this,

and that's because their customers think they're already recycling.

The public don't know there's a problem

so the public's not asking for a solution.

The booming UK coffee market means that

seven million cups are being binned every single day.

And three giants of the high street dominate this business -

Costa, Starbucks and Caffe Nero.

But judging by their websites, you'd think they were as green as grass.

I think it's time to get this out in the open

so I'm writing to them to get their side of the story.

But if I'm going to take on such huge corporations,

I'm going to need your help.

And I reckon you'll be up for it,

just like you were last year

when you helped me take on the supermarkets over their crazy

cosmetic standards that were driving farmers

like the Hammond family in Norfolk to the brink.

-That can't go in. That one's too big.

-Too big?

What's wrong with that one?

-Too short.

-Too short?

-Yes.

-Too short.

Far too short. They're all too small.

I found out that almost all supermarket fruit and veg

is graded using strict cosmetic standards

that define to the millimetre exactly what's acceptable.

Some of the produce that fails this beauty contest

can be sold as animal feed

or used in other products like soup or salads,

but the rest is left to rot,

or else gets ploughed back into the ground.

After 30 years in the parsnip business,

the Hammonds decided they just couldn't afford to go on.

What's the point coming up here seven days a week to do this for...

you know, for nothing.

You're upset, aren't you?

When I finally had the chance to confront the supermarket

in question about this crisis,

they seemed to suggest that the problem was down to the consumer.

Customers look at a product that is scarred or oddly shaped

and might go, "Actually, I don't want to buy that product."

If you get a very, very clear message from your customers

that they're willing to meet you halfway,

they are ready to be adaptable.

-We're listening...

-Will you respond to that very boldly?

-Yes.

-Yes?

-Yes, so the point is, Hugh...

-Fantastic, Steve.

Julian, you'll be behind that, won't you?

Of course, we listen to our customers.

So it was time to make your voices heard..

"I agree that wasting millions of tonnes of food a year is immoral

"and I want my supermarket to put a stop to this."

Without a doubt.

I asked you to pledge your support to help force all of our

supermarkets to relax their crazy cosmetic standards and reduce waste.

We want to make sure that gets eaten, not wasted.

I think that's a good idea.

-Your pledge will make a difference.

-Hope so.

And you did so in your hundreds of thousands.

And I'm thrilled to say that, within just a few months

of this public outcry, many of our supermarkets have responded

with new ranges of cosmetically imperfect fruit and veg,

which are available in stores right now.

But are these new wonky veg lines a real game changer

or just a flash in the saucepan?

I'm catching up with waste campaigner Tristram Stuart

to get his take on it.

-There you go.

-Interesting times.

-Indeed.

-Some things have happened since we last met you.

-Yes, they seem to have done.

ASDA's wonky range predated the shows that went out and

the public pledge, but everything I've got in this box

I'm pretty sure is a new line that's come out, some of them

only a matter of weeks ago, and all of them since 300,000 people

asked the supermarkets to step up and address this issue.

So we've got Tesco - they haven't chosen the word wonky,

they've gone for another clever bit of marketing,

"perfectly imperfect".

And Waitrose, "a little less than perfect".

A LITTLE less than perfect.

Morrisons, who you may recall I had a little bit of a run-in,

have actually, as far as I can tell they've got the widest range of all

in terms of individual veg.

I've got three of them here but there are more.

These are just the sort of things that I was seeing rejected

-at the Hammonds' farm.

-Look at that.

-It's a very handsome parsnip.

-It is.

Are these new lines of wonky, imperfect, less than perfect veg,

are they really helping to reduce the piles of waste?

Would that be overoptimistic?

I think it could be a step in that direction, Hugh,

I think we have to be mindful that at the moment the scale

that these projects are going out on is really quite small.

There's still an awful lot of waste of exactly the kind

we've been talking about still going on.

If this becomes mainstream, so that those cosmetic standards

are relaxed across the board and permanently,

then that is what victory looks like.

So how close are we to achieving Tristram's vision?

Will these small-scale wonky ranges really pave the way for

a wholesale relaxation of standards across all produce?

Well, I've managed to track down one farmer who has been given

a bit of cosmetic wiggle room by some of the supermarkets.

At least for the time being.

Hi, David.

'David Simmons grows cauliflowers for five of the UK's

'biggest supermarkets but he's been struggling with

'the unseasonably warm winter.'

It's been horrendous.

We're now in, well, the beginning of February and this is

a variety that we should be cutting middle to end of March.

-So they're just super early.

-Oh, incredibly early.

I know from my own veg patch just how hard it is

to grow a perfect cauli.

I imagine the supermarkets are fairly demanding of your spec,

what they should be like.

Unfortunately, everyone wants perfection

and they forget that it's grown out in the fields.

We've got the weather to tolerate,

we've got the pests and diseases that come with it

and it's very, very difficult to get a perfect cauliflower.

Just looking along the row here,

I can tell you I'm seeing caulis that, by my own amateur

veg-growing standards, I'd be extremely proud of.

I mean, that looks to me like a beaut.

Well, unfortunately it's the colour that's wrong with that one.

-The colour?

-Yep.

-You're telling me that's a reject?

In the normal spec, that would be a reject because it's too yellow.

-Too yellow?

-Yes.

They should be white to ivory in colour, it's certainly not

a perfect cauliflower, and that's all down to the warm weather.

If you were working to the usual very strict supermarket specs

on this field of caulis, how many would you be harvesting?

We probably wouldn't be harvesting any in here.

-This whole field?

-With the whole field there'd be such

a small portion in here that would be acceptable that we would say

it's not worth the economics of coming in to harvest it.

So how many caulis are in this field?

There's about 120,000 caulis.

'In fact 120,000 is quite modest,

'compared to the two million cauliflowers David has had to

'leave rotting in the fields over the past few months

'because until now, the supermarkets have been too choosy.

'However, today there is a team hard at work, and what's making

'this harvest viable for David is not just a wonky veg range but

'a change in the spec for the whole crop from key supermarket buyers.'

Well, Morrisons have turned around and relaxed the specification

-on the looseness around the sides.

-Well done, Morrisons.

Yes, and also they've given us a slight tolerance on colour

so that we can go slightly more off-white.

We do need the support of the supermarket

and work as a partnership and work as a team together and it just needs

a little nudge from people like yourself to try and say,

you know, take these blemishes, you know,

support the British farmer because if we're not, we're gone.

Quite a lot of the cauliflowers haven't been cut and are going

to go to waste, but the upside is that actually a lot of them

have been cut, and that could so easily have not been the case.

In fact this whole field would have been written off if the

supermarkets hadn't actually relaxed their cosmetic standards,

talked to the farmer, introduced a wonky veg line to help

move them along. A whole field, 120,000 caulis totally wasted,

or make the best of a difficult situation and harvest maybe

half of them, and they're on the shelves and we can all eat them.

I mean, spot the difference!

Morrisons aren't the only ones to rise to the challenge.

I'm delighted to say that since 300,000 of you signed my pledge

demanding that cosmetic standards be relaxed,

there've been encouraging changes

from most of the other supermarkets too.

M&S, Lidl, Aldi and the Co-op have all told me that they're

easing up the specs on some of their British-grown produce.

Mostly carrots, onions and potatoes.

And there's even good news on the import front.

Tesco are looking further afield and relaxing

their cosmetic standards for green beans from Kenya.

But to seriously reduce the waste of perfectly good food,

it's vital that our retailers relax cosmetic standards

across all their fruit and veg lines.

And they'll only do this if we keep asking for change.

In the meantime I'm turning my sights

to another crazy pile of waste.

The UK generates more than ten million tonnes of

packaging waste a year.

And half of this ends up in our bins at home.

Whether our purchases are bubble-wrapped, vac-packed,

or simply in the wrong size box, it's become a headache for us all.

Hello there, waste warriors. Today I want to share with you

an everyday story of consumer frustration.

'A few months ago, I asked you to tell me about your packaging woes.'

Please post your videos of stupid packaging that's driving you insane.

We'll work out together which is the maddest of the lot

and then, on your behalf, I'll go after the culprits.

Look at that.

There's a sort of wrap rage going on now on this Facebook page.

And we are in a world of cardboard gone mad.

This is a year planner so it's rolled up,

so it would fit very nicely into a cardboard tube,

but, oh, no, they stick the rolled-up tube into an enormous box

and wrap it with huge amounts of plastic packaging.

Three small printer ink cartridges and

a packet of foolscap paper in a box that's big enough for a small child

to make a den in, and people have been sending me videos too.

Hello, Hugh, I'm about to open a package from Amazon.com and I have

a feeling that it's maybe one of those packages

-that I'm not going to like.

-Oh, a lot of paper. A big box.

This is all that was in the box.

I think that could have been packaged a lot better. Definitely.

I agree it could, and that's absolutely typical.

A couple of small things in the bottom of a big box

and loads and loads of paper.

People have had a pop at some very well-known names here.

M&S. John Lewis.

Next. House Of Fraser.

But way out in front,

far more complaints than all the others put together, and I

don't think you're going to get any prizes if you've guessed who it is,

Amazon, Amazon, Amazon, Amazon, Amazon.

Amazon, you're driving us all nuts with your packaging!

'And to make sure these aren't just blips in the system,

'I've got clicking and ordered a few of the items

'that seem to have given you the most grief.'

Ah, look at that.

What does it say on the site again?

"Amazon has developed a software programme that determines

"the right size box for any given item to be shipped to a customer."

Really?

Hi, is that Amazon customer services?

Who in Amazon is in charge of packaging?

But if I wanted to actually talk to someone about Amazon's policy on packaging?

So there'd be no chance of me speaking to that person?

I like a challenge, I mean, why would I have no chance?

If my question is, what is Amazon doing to improve their packaging

so that it's less wasteful? Sorry?

I will never get an answer to that question?

What if I was making a documentary for BBC television about wasteful packaging?

My name's Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall.

H-U-G-H.

As a customer, I can't get to talk to somebody who can make

a difference, but maybe, as a film-maker or a journalist, I can.

That's what I'm going to have to try next.

And what about the recycling scandal on our high streets?

Well, it feels like I'm heading for a showdown with Britain's

biggest coffee chains, because I've discovered that hardly any

disposable coffee cups are being recycled.

And, yet, both Costa and Starbucks give the impression

on their websites that they are.

"Our cups are recyclable in locations across the UK."

What's that all about?

Well, I've looked into it.

'And it turns out that there is one facility in the North of England

'that has a specialist process to recycle these kind of plastic-lined

'cups, but they told me that this is still at a trial stage and

'the truth is only a tiny number of used cups ever actually get here.'

Costa are sending less than 1%.

In fact, 1% is a super-generous estimate of the maximum

they could be sending. Happen to think it's way less than that.

"We are working with our manufacturer to create a cup

"that can be recycled anywhere in the world.

"This all adds up to one of the world's most environmentally friendly paper cups."

Great. That I'd like to hear about.

That is the solution,

a well-designed cup that can be recycled anywhere, so I've written

to Costa and asked them for an interview to talk about cups.

I'd love to ask them about this brilliant cup they're inventing.

Unfortunately, they've turned me down.

Is it because they don't think

the world wants to hear about their fantastic new recyclable cup?

Is it because perhaps they haven't got as close to it

as they'd like us to believe?

Is it, in fact, because under close scrutiny interrogation

all these claims start to fall down?

Starbucks' website is even more baffling.

"We have set a goal to make 100% of our cups reusable or recyclable by 2015."

Well, it's 2016 and I don't think that's happened.

'Like Costa, Starbucks make a big deal of the fact that their cups

'are TECHNICALLY recyclable, but curiously, they're not even clients

'of the one facility that could take their cups.'

They cannot reasonably claim that on a technicality, their cups are

recyclable, because in theory there's one place that could do it,

but they don't send the cups there. I mean, that's a total nonsense,

that is taking the public for idiots and they can't get away with it.

'But surely it's not impossible to make a coffee cup

'that can be easily recycled?'

-Morning.

-Morning!

-Hi.

'In his workshop in south London, inventor Martin Myerscough

'thinks that he may have come up with a solution.'

We make our cups out of pure cardboard, then we make a liner.

We put the liner into the cup.

When that goes to the mill, the paper breaks down,

the liner comes free, gets caught in the filters

and the cardboard carries on and gets recycled.

I'm guessing that that's not your finished product,

with this bit of plastic sticking out.

No, that's just to demonstrate it,

so what we do is we actually roll over that bit of plastic in the process,

we heat-shrink it round the top and you end up with a very smooth rim.

It looks very like a regular cup.

Yes, one of the other advantages is because our liner is intact

before we put it in, it's actually leak-proof,

we can then use a recycled board.

There is a well-known brand of coffee that claim on their website

that they have one of the most environmentally friendly

coffee cups in the world.

Um...

And it's rather like one of these.

That seems an odd claim to make if this coffee cup exists.

Are you having some good conversations with big coffee-sellers of the world?

Well, I think there's always resistance to new ideas and

we are having good conversations but, like always, it's just moving

people away from what they're used to, to something different.

'Martin's keen to show me how his new design compares to a standard cup.'

-This is Henry, who's worked with me for years.

-How are you?

This is basically a replica of what the paper pulp mills use

-to test how the paper is broken down.

-OK.

So are we going to start with the conventional.

Got McDonald's and Waitrose here.

-Turn that on.

-Turn it on.

Coffee cup soup.

If you stop at that, Andrew, we'll have a look at it.

-May I?

-Please.

The plastic is starting to be exposed a bit

but there's still a lot of papery gunk stuck to the plastic,

-and so that's not working in the mills.

-No.

This is some test samples that we did before the paper mill,

you see, so here you can see the newspaper, that's all very nice,

and here you can see the lumps of the existing cups.

So that would be unacceptable because you just get too many lumps

in the papermaking process.

-So, can we do it with your cups now?

-Yes.

OK, can I have a little fish in there? Ah! OK.

There's quite a big piece of the lining.

Yeah, I can see that comes away,

even the bits that are stuck will then come away really easily.

So the crucial point is that the paper mills have said, yes,

they'll take them, this works for them.

Yes, so we've tested it in newspaper mills, corrugated mills,

mixed paper mills, and they all say it is commercially acceptable. Yes.

It's clear that solutions do exist,

so if Britain's coffee drinkers demand a cup

that really can be recycled,

then surely the retailers will have no choice but to change their ways.

'Meanwhile, in the world of Amazon, I'm primed and ready

'to challenge them over their excessive packaging,

'but I'm struggling to track down an Amazonian who can help me.'

Hi, is that James?

Yes, it's Hugh.

We're trying to find out what the big players

in the world of business are doing about the issue of waste.

'I've been chasing Amazon's PR chief James to chase their head of boxes,

'if there is one, for an interview.'

I think it would show leadership from Amazon if they were prepared

to come forward and talk about the issue and what you're doing about it.

Thanks, James, cheers.

He's certainly going to go and talk to somebody about talking to us.

That's how these things always start.

"Yeah, can I just, you know, I'll talk, we'll talk about it,

"you know, we'll talk about it here at Amazon and we'll definitely,

"you know, of course we take it very seriously, and we'll get back to you."

It's one of those... you know...

One of those conversations.

But tackling the waste issue isn't just down to the biggest corporations.

We've all got a part to play.

Last year, I challenged the residents

of one street in Greater Manchester

to curb their food waste and ramp up their recycling.

You don't want to open it. It's not recycled.

Oh! Oh, my God.

It doesn't smell good, Michelle.

'Even the worst offenders rose to the challenge.'

What I'm really interested in is how you're getting on with your bins.

Have a look.

Oh, come on! That's too good to be true!

'They formed an online community to share hints and tips

'on saving food and money.'

-Are you going to stick with it? CROWD:

-Yes!

Thank you, Prestwich. Hurray!

'And it seems that Waste Not Prestwich have inspired the nation.

Over the past few months, dozens of Waste Not groups

have been popping up around Britain.

Within 24 hours, I had 150 people signed up, which was brilliant.

Since the Waste Not campaign's got going,

people have been really excited about it,

really happy to come down to events like this, reduce their waste

and do what they can, so it's been really good for us.

Whilst we're gradually getting to grips with most of our household recycling,

there is one type of waste that's spiralling out of control -

electronics.

In the UK, we're chucking out half a million appliances every single day.

Much of this waste is gear that's considered obsolete

or just not worth repairing.

But some communities are bucking that trend,

by reviving the lost art of fixing stuff.

I've accepted an invitation from one of the busiest new

Waste Not groups in the UK, here in Stroud in Gloucestershire.

Tonight they've got an event planned that I'm very intrigued by.

-This is your old school?

-It is, yes. I went to school here.

'Ginny Smart is the founder of Waste Not Stroud and is organising

'their first-ever Restart Party, where a team of experts help

'others learn how to mend devices that would otherwise get binned.'

She's got no idea how many people will turn up

or even whether they'll be able to fix anything.

But if it proves a success, she's hoping it could spark

a whole new wave of recycling amongst her community.

Lead technician Ugo Vallauri pairs us up with a suitable mender.

-You got a crack squad in tonight, have you?

-We do, we do.

Sharing repair skills and showing the world that we can repair more

-and throw away less.

-Great.

-Thank you.

'All too often, we assume it's cheaper to buy a replacement than to

'fix something, but Ugo insists that with the safe guidance of experts,

'our pre-loved stuff can be re-loved again.'

-I heard the familiar sound of a food processor whizzing.

-Yes!

Does that mean you've just fixed it?

Demo whizzing, yes.

Hi there, how's it going?

Yeah, we're getting there, actually.

So, you're the one doing the fixing now?

-Are you teaching him how to fix things?

-It's just a rewiring job.

Do you find often people come to you with things that they

have been sitting idle on a shelf,

supposedly broken for years and you can fix them in a matter of minutes?

Er, yes, occasionally.

Some others you scratch your head for but I think it's also

being able to go to a place,

you make a commitment to fix it and that's another thing.

And about getting the confidence, I agree.

'Of course, it helps to know the tricks of the trade.'

No way, no way, you found the hidden screws under the sticker.

This is so exciting.

'But the longer we can make use of a piece of tech,

the less e-waste gets generated.

-And go for it.

-Oh, my God, she pressed the button!

-You might be asked again, are you really sure?

-OK.

It should perform much faster.

I just saw you press a button called "erase everything".

-Erase everything.

-That's quite hard-core, isn't it?

It's also liberating, though.

Do you think a lot of people are replacing, buying new machines

just because their machines have got super-slow and ground to a halt

-and they don't know how to sort it out?

-Yes, definitely.

People don't know what to do and after a while

they don't have that much time and so out of rage and frustration,

they decide to put it aside and get a new one.

Oh, yes!

'And the fixes keep on coming.

'Most of us have got old gadgets and gizmos that are destined for the dump,

'but these days, the internet is full of videos and guides

'to help you fix almost anything,

'and events like this are more popular than ever.

'So, why not give your old gear a new lease of life

'and help fight back against the tide of electrical waste?'

It's beginning to feel like a game of cat and mouse

with the big three coffee companies,

as I try to get them to address the issue of the billions

of cardboard cups that their customers think are being recycled,

but aren't.

So, it's time to grab their attention.

I'm looking for a big, bold idea.

Something that's going to make a really striking impression

in a short space of time.

So, I've come to one of the biggest art schools in the UK.

Should be full of students with lots of brilliant ideas.

'And to get the ideas buzzing,

'I've come armed with 2,000 reject coffee cups.'

I'm quite excited, little bit nervous,

so I'm just going to literally dive in. I've bought some things with me.

It's 2.5 billion cups every year.

That's the scale of the problem, that's what we need to change.

What I want us to do together is create that outrage.

We could just create a coffee shop, but out of coffee cups.

We could make a giant ball. You know how they attach cups, like this?

-And turn into...

-It makes a curve

and then that could be rolled around.

What size would that sphere be, though?

Is there a way of making that stable enough that you could

-roll it down the street?

-That would be crazy.

You could have a ball, but you're not necessarily putting across

the very clear message...

So, you could have a blank side and a coloured side,

-and you could have letters or numbers.

-Like the...

A letter would be spelled by pixels, so each cup would be a pixel,

and that would be, like massive.

One minutes' worth of cups potentially gives us 5,000 pixels.

So, like that?

I think we can get this message out to a lot of people and make

them start thinking about what's happening to their coffee cups.

I think we could be on the road to an idea that will really

drive the message home.

Right, it took an awful lot of calls and e-mails,

but I have finally got my interview with Amazon,

on this lovely, sunny day, and I'm just minutes away.

I think the reason I've got this interview

is because on social media, this whole issue

has just gone nuts, and way more than half of those postings

are to do with Amazon deliveries, so Amazon just can't ignore this.

Looks big.

DIALLING TONE

BEEP

Hello, reception, how can I help?

Hi, it's Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall, here.

-I'm here to film an interview?

-OK.

-Thank you.

'Amazon have decided to fly in their Global Head of Sustainability

'from the States, just for this interview.

'I'm hoping that's a sign that they take this problem seriously.'

-Hi.

-Hi, Hugh. I'm Kara Hurst.

-Kara, how are you?

-Welcome to Amazon.

Thank you, very excited to be here.

Hi, Hugh, nice to meet you, I'm Nick Sweeney, I'm a regional director for this site.

-Nick?

-Yes.

-Excellent.

'But before I get to sit down with their international waste envoy,'

I've asked for a tour of what they call the Fulfilment Centre.

So, we just head down here.

Turning this corner, I get a sense of the scale of this place.

Yes, this is part of it.

Gosh.

This is between 500 and 600,000 square feet.

-Pretty big.

-Yeah...

It's probably the biggest single room I've ever stood in, in my life.

NICK LAUGHS

Nick tells me that Amazon has nine other similar facilities in the UK.

And that there are well over a million different product lines

stored in this particular fulfilment centre.

But the way they're organised on the shelves is somewhat baffling.

-I don't know what that is, it's a car part?

-Yeah...

There's playdough, a car part,

a safety helmet.

Some kind of doggy toy,

all next to each other, completely unconnected.

-Yes.

-Is it roughly to do with size?

In our systems we know where every item is, but you're spot on...

'With their whole layout based on product size, you'd think

'their choice of packaging would be equally meticulous.'

I wonder what sort of size box that will be sent out in?

-Yes. I believe it would be one of our smaller boxes.

-Let's hope!

One thing I get straight away is that you have

a phenomenal amount of products here and they are in many different

shapes and sizes.

Nevertheless, I have read on your website that you've got a very,

very smart bit of software that chooses the right-sized box

for the right-sized item in a fantastically clever way.

-This is what we call our CubiScan machine.

-CubiScan?

-CubiScan machine.

So, what that allows us to do is make sure we have the

dimensions for every item that we have in this centre, that we have on

systems, because that's really important for a pack process.

OK, we've got some kind of little cushion going on, or clothy thing.

So, it weighs 0.84 kilos.

It's 41 centimetres long, 41.4, 30.2 wide.

So, our system now knows the right pack type to allocate to that item.

The theory sounds good, but how well does it work in practice?

I've asked to get some hands-on experience on the packing line.

We've made you up your own badge

for your time here at Amazon, which we all have.

I'm called Hugh Fear!

NICK LAUGHS

-You can read into that what you want to.

-You can.

-It's made from your...

NICK LAUGHS

-OK, can I choose an item?

-Want to go for one? Yeah, yeah.

BEEPING

E3.

-Fab, so that's...

-E3, OK. Right.

I'm doing this using what you may or may not call common sense,

but I've got a box of sorts.

-Yes.

-Now...

NICK LAUGHS I would say...

that box is slightly bigger than it needs to be.

-Yeah.

-Let's just to see if we can sneak it into an E1.

Not even an E2.

So, if you put your foot on the pedal, and then, just...

Oh, bloody hell. NICK LAUGHS

That's a bit like making sausages. I've been here before.

Now I understand why these boxes are so full of this paper.

Well, that's a bit of training that I clearly still need.

I've probably got the box upside down and all the rest of it.

But surely we can agree that that tub...

fits quite happily in an E1.

We need to make sure that it doesn't get damaged en route to the

customer, so why we're putting the paper dunnage in,

is to keep the item secure.

If it's too flush with the top of the box, then you're at risk

of the actual item getting damaged before it gets to the customer.

I'd really like to put a label on this and send it in this box today.

Please can I?

-So, let me show you...

-Am I going to be allowed

to send it in this box, which it does fit in?

If it gets damaged, I will give you feedback.

I'm wondering why you don't have a box that's square.

I mean, why isn't there a box that's that size?

So, again, like, the...

How many different box sizes are there here altogether

for the computer to choose from?

So, just for this process, we've got 17 different pack types.

We're going to make this one work, aren't we?

You're going to trust me that this one's going to work, aren't we?

This is not how to pack it.

Not how to pack it for...

-It's on the cusp.

-Snug as a bug in a rug.

NICK LAUGHS

-So, I scan that.

-Yeah, and then put it in that corner.

-OK.

I challenged your box system,

I got it into a smaller box and you're going to let me send it.

If nothing else, that does suggest that your system isn't perfect.

I understand it's...

You've got to choose the box sizes and your computer

has to make a call and your computer's always going to err on

the side of bigger because if he errs on the side of smaller

and it doesn't get in, then all hell will break loose.

But I do think it's a little bit telling and I'm very excited

that I can put that...

-NICK LAUGHS

-So...

NICK LAUGHS

It's a victory for common sense.

Since arriving on our shores two decades ago,

Amazon has gone on to dominate the internet shopping market.

They are now sending out more parcels than any other

online retailer.

With such a huge operation,

even small improvements in box size, when applied across the millions of

items they dispatch every day, could have big environmental benefits,

from the manufacturing of packaging materials,

to the number of vehicles used to transport their goods.

Fascinating tour,

but it's time to get to the nitty-gritty now and confront

our visitor from America with some of this crazy packaging.

And some of the posts on social media.

What I really want to know is what's happening

that's going to make all this change.

'I'm hoping Amazon's Global Head of Sustainability, Kara Hurst,

'will have some answers.'

What's your reaction to this?

What does Amazon feel is at the root of this problem,

because it's ongoing, isn't it?

We shipped over a billion packages in Europe last year

throughout the EU.

So, we're using a lot of packaging.

In the majority of cases, we are getting it right, but we're on

a journey, we're on a journey to get it right all the time.

Of course, one would hope certainly that the majority of cases...

you're getting it right, but when one lipstick

and nail varnish, and this seems to be quite a regular one,

I'm sure it's not the first time you've seen this one, arrives

in a box like that with a load of paper...

-Mm-hm.

-Um...

You know, I think that this kind of packaging,

we can obviously do better.

Anything...

-Mm-hm.

-..long and thin seems...

-Long and thin, yes.

Why don't you do tubes?

I've got a rolled-up map, that was the only thing in this,

-a bottle washer, here...

-Yeah.

..comes in the same box with a lot of this paper,

-a lot of this paper...

-Yeah.

-..and a big box.

And a good old cardboard tube doesn't seem

to be anywhere in the selection system for Amazon.

Is there a reason for that?

It's in the system in Amazon and I haven't seen it in the UK, but

it's a great call-out, something, one of those things we have

to get better at, we're looking at.

We've done a lot of work on the recyclability of our packaging,

that's been a big area of focus. We're...

The boxes themselves are, you know,

over 99% from recycled content, they're 100% able to be recycled...

That's good, but it's not an excuse for churning out huge amounts

of unnecessary packaging.

I mean, I've shown you a couple of examples that I've brought with me,

but if you look just at the recent posts online, somebody here,

there's a single tiny piece of jewellery,

maybe just one spare bead for a necklace

and it's come in this big box.

I get examples like this, too.

And we ask our customers to send them to us, actually.

Well, you're the big guys.

You should be leading this, shouldn't you?

I think we are in lots of ways.

Look, we have ways to go, again, we're on a journey with this,

maybe some work to do in this long and thin space, right?

-But you've been in business for a long time...

-We have.

..it really feels like you're only catching up with this now.

We are fully committed and want to hear more about what...

If I had £1 for every big company who told me they were

-fully committed...

-Uh-huh.

-I expect in a minute, you're probably going

to tell me you've got a trial on somewhere, trialling a new system.

We're always innovating. I'd love to tell you about some of the things we're doing.

We have a technology we are piloting that we're really

excited about, called Box On Demand.

-Piloting?

-Mm-hm.

Kara tells me that Box On Demand makes packages to the specific

dimensions of a product, meaning less wasted cardboard

and fewer vehicles needed to make deliveries.

Sounds great.

When do we get Box On Demand in the UK?

That's a great question.

We're thinking on a 12-20 month timeframe,

right now, that we'll be ready to implement it more fully.

I'd love to flip a switch and say,

we're going to get everything done tomorrow.

We're going as fast as we can go.

We love to hear from our customers where we can do better.

Would it be helpful to you if people were posting these pictures

-directly on the Amazon website?

-In fact, they do, right?

So we have customer feedback and we actively seek it,

we ask our customers for feedback when they receive a package.

There is a place on our site they can go and they can give us

not only their feedback, but also upload a photo if they'd like to

and we'll look at all of that information to help us get better.

America's a long way to come just to tell me

you care passionately about waste,

you're fully committed to looking at lots of different solutions,

and trialling this and piloting that.

But I think one really interesting thing is to hear that Amazon

welcomes their customers' feedback, their photos online,

their physical evidence that this is an ongoing problem.

So, if you're fed up with over-the-top packaging, don't hold back.

Tell Amazon you're not happy.

Because if they feel the pressure from enough of you,

they'll have to do something to end this cardboard crisis.

The time has come to go public with the truth about paper cups.

I want Britain to wake up to the fact that,

despite what we think,

and what the big coffee companies WANT us to think,

our takeaway cups are not being recycled.

There are 5,000 reject cardboard cups

stuck to each side of our battle bus.

That's how many the UK throws away every single minute.

I'm hoping people will share pictures of our mobile masterpiece

online, and get the whole nation talking about this issue.

Can't believe where we've come in the last ten days or so.

We had a crazy idea, and today the crazy idea's happening.

And we're going to make a big noise, a big splash.

I've got a megaphone and I'm not afraid to use it!

Good morning, Starbucks. Morning, Costa.

Morning McDonald's.

Good morning, Pret.

Those cups are virtually unrecyclable.

Really.

We've got 10,000 cups stuck to our bus today.

That's the amount of cups we throw away in the UK in just two minutes.

Hey, Starbucks! How many of your coffee cups were successfully recycled today?

Any at all?

It's not recyclable.

-Why don't you come and talk to me man-to-man?

-Of course.

-My pleasure.

-Trying to be clever...

-Come and talk to me inside, you alone.

-OK. Sure, let's do that.

-I think you're talking a lot of rubbish.

-OK. Well, let's talk about it...

Starbucks store manager there came out and

told me basically to sling my hook, didn't like what I was saying.

You know, it's difficult. He said that I was sort of

barging in and doing things in the wrong way.

But, you know, I have been trying to get

a face-to-face interview with these companies.

Starbucks have said they WILL give me an interview.

Unfortunately not today - I really wanted to get them up here

on my coffee cup battle bus and talk to them.

But I'm hoping that within a few days I'll get to talk to Starbucks,

and get to the bottom of what they're really trying to do

about the coffee cup situation.

-Do you know why we're going round with these cups on the bus?

-Why?

-Cos none of them get recycled.

-Oh. They should be, shouldn't they?

-Everybody thinks that.

We're definitely drawing a crowd.

But I want this to go viral, and hit the headlines.

Takeaway coffee cups shouldn't Costa the earth!

Things are really picking up. We've been trending on Twitter,

our press release has hit the news desks.

I'm going to talk to The Times, the Daily Mail...

So, it's not an outright lie...

-No.

-..these cups CAN be recycled...

-..but it's misleading.

-I think "misleading" is not too strong a word.

-Superb.

-Excellent.

-What do you think of our bus?

-I think it's a great idea.

-Would you prefer to get your coffee from somebody who DOES recycle their cups?

-Yes.

OK - well, maybe... It would be great if you let Starbucks know that.

-Will you do it?

-Consider it done.

-Thank you very much.

Meanwhile, my team are continuing to get our message out on social media.

I've finally had a reply to my e-mail, from Caffe Nero.

Might be a bit of a coincidence that it turned up today,

since they were part of the Twitter storm.

"The issue remains that more can be done to improve both

"the recovery and recyclability of these cups,

"and this is something that we are actively involved

"in finding solutions for."

They're actively involved in finding solutions -

they're not actively involved in recycling any of their cups.

THROUGH MEGAPHONE: 2.5 billion coffee cups a year going to waste...

Wake up and smell the waste!

It's been a fantastic day.

The bus has been all over the city -

now millions of coffee drinkers know that their coffee cups are not being recycled.

And I'm hoping that they're going to join me and get something done about it.

Morning...

It seems that my coffee cup battle bus has caused a bit of a stir.

Well, celebrity chef and environmental campaigner Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall

is waging a battle against coffee companies who claim that their takeaway cups

are recyclable, even though 99% of them -

-yes, 99%...

-Mm.

-..are sent to landfill each year.

If the people are indignant about it -

the coffee drinkers want change - then the companies will change, that's what's going to drive this.

Well, you've had some effect on wonky veg,

-haven't you, so coffee cups is next.

-Well, I hope so,

and we've got to step up and deal with this issue of waste -

whether it's food waste or paper waste, we've got to deal with it.

Well. Suddenly, coffee cups are front-page news.

I mean that literally.

Front page of The Guardian -

"What happens to your coffee cup?"

The Times -

"Coffee shop recycling claims are a lot of froth."

See what they did there? Cappuccino, froth.

And the Daily Mail.

"Hypocrisy of the coffee giants."

This is great. I mean, this is getting the word out.

So I'm pushing harder than ever now for Costa, Caffe Nero and

Starbucks to actually tell us what they're going to do about it.

Despite the media storm, it looks to me like Costa and Caffe Nero

are hoping this will all blow over. But I've got an ace up my sleeve...

..my interview with Starbucks.

In some ways, the best thing about the Starbucks interview is just that

it shows that they're engaged, and that's very useful for me at

at the moment because actually their main rivals, Nero and Costa,

are not really engaged, they're not dealing with this, they're not addressing it.

Not just that they're not offering me an interview -

they're not obliged to do that -

but they're not saying anything significant about this issue.

I'm just dropping Nero and Costa a line here,

hoping to just goad them into doing something themselves.

"Dear Costa.

"I think you'll be aware now that I've taken to the streets to

"tell the public about the problem of recycling your takeaway cups.

"As I'd hoped, the public seem to be very engaged with this issue,

"and there's been lots of media interest surrounding it too.

"At the moment, I'm afraid you're not coming out of it too well."

And while I hope that gives Costa and Nero a jolt,

it's time for my interview with the biggest coffee chain on the planet.

Surely Starbucks will lead the way

for reform across the whole industry?

-Hello, Hugh. Rhys, lovely to meet you.

-Rhys.

-And Jas?

-Nice to meet you, Hugh.

-Thanks very much.

For a long time your website was implying

that these are recyclable cups.

And also, I've talked to your customers on the street -

-most of them THINK these are recyclable cups...

-Mm.

..and that's one of our biggest problems, isn't it?

Technically, our cups ARE 100% recyclable.

But here in the UK, we recognise

there just aren't the facilities locally to do that.

And what we want to actively, and we are actively doing,

is working with the recycling processes in the UK,

because this technology exists today to do it.

But you announced five years ago

your determination to solve this problem - you announced it.

Five years later, that still hasn't happened.

It said on your website last week,

"We are on track to do this by the end of 2015" -

it still said that on your website in 2016, it still hasn't happened.

Well, first of all, you're referring to a sustainability report,

and we did make some bold claims about having fully recyclable cups.

That's been updated. We don't want to mislead any of our customers -

that's why we as a company have been crystal clear

not put anything on this cup to say that it is recyclable.

Shouldn't you have a big mark on your cup saying,

"Please do not put this in a recycling bin", or

"This cup is not recyclable in the normal waste system"?

-Well...

-Or just "Unrecyclable" in large letters?

You've got to address the fact

that the public thinks this cup's recyclable. Because they still do.

Well, that's something we would need to go and have a look at.

-WILL you have a look at that?

-Yeah, definitely have a look at it.

Because we take this issue very seriously.

But we also ensure that we have a fully recyclable,

reusable cup available for all our customers.

We want to incentivise more people

to bring in a reusable cup or tumbler.

We offer currently a 25p discount,

but we're going to increase that to 50p a cup,

off any drink, providing you bring in a reusable mug or tumbler.

-That's breaking news?

-That is breaking news.

-Today -

you're announcing that you're going to go from 25p to 50p discount. Correct.

It's something we want to make our customers more aware of,

and we hope that your campaign will help do that.

This is very good publicity for you, but good for the environment too

so I'm not going to hold back from telling the world that,

and I'd like to see other coffee companies following that lead.

-But, let's be realistic.

-Mm.

-You're still going to sell millions of coffees...

-Absolutely right.

-..in cups like this.

But there isn't a solution out there that is scalable.

Because if there was, we'd all be adopting it.

You know, we've got every intention

to make our products as recyclable as possible.

I've talked to some people who BELIEVE they have a solution,

who believe they have a cup that's acceptable to the paper mills -

have you ever tried road-testing cups like this?

We would welcome any opportunity to trial and to test those.

It's in our best interests to make that cup more recyclable.

Well, it's in your best interests NOW

because the public's talking about this and it's front page news.

I can give you a commitment that this is something we will take seriously,

and we are more than happy to share our progress on it with you.

If Starbucks are going to up the discounts

if you bring your own reusable cup from 25p per coffee to 50p,

that should incentivise the public.

But what I feel I'm still not hearing from Starbucks, or any other coffee company,

is just how they're going to deal with this problem, and on what timescale.

50 million cups last year, all chucked away, none recycled -

how many is it going to be next year? Come on, Starbucks.

And what about the other coffee giants?

Well, Caffe Nero have stopped replying to my e-mails.

But I have finally heard back

from the UK's biggest coffee company, Costa,

and they tell me that they've made some changes to their website.

So let's have a look.

One of the phrases that was getting my goat

on the previous website was

describing their cup as "one of the world's most environmentally friendly paper cups."

That sentence has now gone. Which is good.

It's official - Costa have NOT got

"one of the world's most environmentally friendly paper cups."

This billion-pound business have also told me that they're setting up

a £100,000 research fund to continue to look into the problem.

Which is all well and good -

but it doesn't mean that any more cups are actually being recycled.

And the only way I think that's going to happen any time soon

is if you, their customers, demand change.

And to prove it, you only have to look at how far

some other giant corporations have come

since you got involved in the war on waste.

Last year, you were as outraged as I was

to see our supermarkets binning perfectly good food.

And 300,000 of you challenged them

to put an end to this madness.

Now, M&S and Tesco

are rolling out smart new technology to all their stores

as part of their daily stock check,

to divert surplus food to people who really need it.

Morrisons and the Co-op have both opened their doors to volunteers,

who are giving unsold food to good causes.

Like this school breakfast club in Leeds.

Meanwhile, the UK's biggest food redistribution charity FareShare

have told me that donations have gone up by an astonishing 60%.

That's helping to feed an extra 50,000 people a week,

with food that would otherwise have ended up in the bin.

It's a fantastic achievement,

and I think we can have a similar impact on the coffee companies.

I know they're listening -

because just days before this programme was due to air,

the coffee giants seemed to be finally waking from their slumber.

This is all a little bit surreal, because I'm now in the edit,

putting the finishing touches to the film that you're actually watching.

And look what's just come in, at the eleventh hour.

The Paper Cup Manifesto.

Interesting timing.

"A partnership of business, recyclers, suppliers and the public,

"to increase the recovery and recycling of paper cups."

Now, that sounds like really good news.

But what exactly have they signed up to do?

"To ensure paper cups are designed, used, disposed of and collected"

"to maximise the opportunities for recycling

"by further investment and funding...by 2020"?

That's a long way out.

My concern about these bold announcements is that

so often they're really more about defusing a PR disaster

than they are about committing to real action.

Look at the Starbucks example.

They promised a fully recyclable cup by 2015.

2016 - still hasn't happened.

They promised me, on camera,

that they would offer a 50p discount

for anyone who came into one of their stores

with their own cup for their coffee. They did it.

Three months later,

it turned out to be a trial offer, and it's been withdrawn.

If we want to see real change rather than just playing for time,

I think it'll be because the coffee companies sense

that the public demand that -

they want to see a recycled cup, and they want to see it now.

So I need your help. I really want YOU to get involved.

Let's give them all a bit of a nudge, shall we?

@StarbucksUK

@CostaCoffee

Not forgetting @CaffeNero US

"Wake up and smell the waste.

"We want cups that can actually be recycled NOW."

#wastenot

Because if enough of us keep on telling these big corporations

that we won't stand for it any longer,

then I believe we really can win

the war on waste.