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-ANGELA: -There's a lot we don't know about the food on our plates, | 0:00:02 | 0:00:05 | |
and the shops and the labels don't always tell you the whole story. | 0:00:05 | 0:00:09 | |
You think you're getting a bargain | 0:00:10 | 0:00:12 | |
and you're not really, | 0:00:12 | 0:00:13 | |
they're just encouraging you to buy more of a product | 0:00:13 | 0:00:15 | |
when you don't need to. | 0:00:15 | 0:00:16 | |
JULIA: Whether you're staying in or going out, | 0:00:16 | 0:00:18 | |
you've told us you can feel ripped off | 0:00:18 | 0:00:20 | |
by the promises made about what you eat | 0:00:20 | 0:00:22 | |
and what you pay for it. | 0:00:22 | 0:00:24 | |
What really winds me up, I suppose, | 0:00:24 | 0:00:26 | |
is the price of so-called healthy food | 0:00:26 | 0:00:28 | |
when compared with the unhealthy stuff. | 0:00:28 | 0:00:30 | |
The unhealthy stuff seems to be so much cheaper. | 0:00:30 | 0:00:32 | |
-GLORIA: -From claims that just don't stack up | 0:00:32 | 0:00:34 | |
to the secrets behind the packaging, | 0:00:34 | 0:00:36 | |
we'll uncover the truth about Britain's food | 0:00:36 | 0:00:39 | |
so that you can be sure that you're getting what you expect | 0:00:39 | 0:00:41 | |
at the right price. | 0:00:41 | 0:00:43 | |
Your food, your money. | 0:00:44 | 0:00:46 | |
This is Rip-Off Britain. | 0:00:46 | 0:00:48 | |
Hello, and welcome to Rip-Off Britain, | 0:00:50 | 0:00:53 | |
where this series we're focusing on something | 0:00:53 | 0:00:55 | |
that all of us just can't do without, | 0:00:55 | 0:00:57 | |
and that's our food. | 0:00:57 | 0:00:59 | |
And today, we'll be finding out | 0:00:59 | 0:01:00 | |
the truth about some of the foods we rush to buy, | 0:01:00 | 0:01:03 | |
because we think they'll be really good for us | 0:01:03 | 0:01:05 | |
and those we avoid, because we think they're bad. | 0:01:05 | 0:01:08 | |
So the question is, have we got it all wrong? | 0:01:08 | 0:01:10 | |
Are we just scared of the stuff that's absolutely fine, | 0:01:10 | 0:01:13 | |
and wasting our money on products that, | 0:01:13 | 0:01:15 | |
despite what they claim, | 0:01:15 | 0:01:16 | |
are no better for us than anything else? | 0:01:16 | 0:01:19 | |
Well, to find out, we'll be unpicking | 0:01:19 | 0:01:20 | |
some of the health scares and the food fads | 0:01:20 | 0:01:23 | |
that we've all pretty much swallowed wholesale, | 0:01:23 | 0:01:25 | |
to see which of them should be believed. | 0:01:25 | 0:01:27 | |
So, whether it's one those food scares | 0:01:27 | 0:01:29 | |
that's been going on for the last 50 years or so, | 0:01:29 | 0:01:32 | |
to the foods, the juices and the potions | 0:01:32 | 0:01:35 | |
that we're told are going to transform how we feel. | 0:01:35 | 0:01:38 | |
Hopefully, by the end of this programme, | 0:01:38 | 0:01:39 | |
we'll have cut through enough of that hype | 0:01:39 | 0:01:41 | |
so that you are going be much better informed | 0:01:41 | 0:01:44 | |
the next time you're deciding | 0:01:44 | 0:01:45 | |
whether or not you're going to spend your money | 0:01:45 | 0:01:47 | |
on what seems to be a healthy choice. | 0:01:47 | 0:01:50 | |
Coming up, three letters that spell out | 0:01:52 | 0:01:54 | |
one of the most controversial ingredients in food around. | 0:01:54 | 0:01:57 | |
But is there really anything to worry about with MSG? | 0:01:57 | 0:02:01 | |
It's not unpleasant. | 0:02:01 | 0:02:03 | |
Actually, funnily enough, | 0:02:03 | 0:02:05 | |
-it's making my taste buds work. -Yes. | 0:02:05 | 0:02:07 | |
You know, sometimes we hear so much negative stuff | 0:02:10 | 0:02:13 | |
about a particular ingredient in our food | 0:02:13 | 0:02:15 | |
that we might be prepared to swallow | 0:02:15 | 0:02:17 | |
whatever is being said | 0:02:17 | 0:02:19 | |
without necessarily questioning it. | 0:02:19 | 0:02:21 | |
And there are those who would say that's very much the case | 0:02:21 | 0:02:24 | |
with a particular additive that is often found in savoury foods, | 0:02:24 | 0:02:27 | |
MSG, or monosodium glutamate. | 0:02:27 | 0:02:30 | |
Now, over the years, it's caused so much controversy | 0:02:30 | 0:02:33 | |
that, although still very widely used, | 0:02:33 | 0:02:35 | |
it's considered by many to be a nasty chemical | 0:02:35 | 0:02:39 | |
that is best avoided. | 0:02:39 | 0:02:40 | |
And indeed, there are companies and restaurants | 0:02:40 | 0:02:43 | |
that proudly boast that they don't use it. | 0:02:43 | 0:02:46 | |
But has MSG gained its poor reputation for no good reason? | 0:02:46 | 0:02:50 | |
And could it be that, in fact, | 0:02:50 | 0:02:52 | |
there isn't really anything wrong with it at all? | 0:02:52 | 0:02:55 | |
This innocent-looking white powder has been blamed for everything | 0:02:58 | 0:03:02 | |
from general feelings of weakness, to heart disease, | 0:03:02 | 0:03:05 | |
asthma to depression. | 0:03:05 | 0:03:07 | |
It's MSG, or monosodium glutamate. | 0:03:07 | 0:03:09 | |
And, after one of the world's longest-running food scares, | 0:03:09 | 0:03:13 | |
there are scores of people | 0:03:13 | 0:03:14 | |
who won't buy or eat anything that contains it. | 0:03:14 | 0:03:18 | |
I would avoid it if possible, if I knew, | 0:03:18 | 0:03:19 | |
if it was on the packaging or whatever. | 0:03:19 | 0:03:21 | |
It's bad for you but we do eat it. | 0:03:21 | 0:03:23 | |
It's not good for me at all. | 0:03:23 | 0:03:25 | |
MSG is a flavour enhancer | 0:03:26 | 0:03:28 | |
that over the years has been widely used in lots of foods, | 0:03:28 | 0:03:31 | |
from crisps to takeaways and gravy. | 0:03:31 | 0:03:34 | |
But if the horror stories that started in the late 1960s | 0:03:34 | 0:03:38 | |
are to be believed, | 0:03:38 | 0:03:39 | |
it's something we should steer well clear of. | 0:03:39 | 0:03:42 | |
Back then, the supposed effects of too much MSG - | 0:03:42 | 0:03:45 | |
headaches, numbness and even palpitations - | 0:03:45 | 0:03:48 | |
were dubbed "Chinese Restaurant Syndrome". | 0:03:48 | 0:03:51 | |
In the following years, | 0:03:51 | 0:03:52 | |
it was linked to brain lesions in mice, | 0:03:52 | 0:03:54 | |
and in the decades since, | 0:03:54 | 0:03:56 | |
some have even claimed a link to blindness. | 0:03:56 | 0:03:58 | |
But alongside all those terrifying medical reports, | 0:03:58 | 0:04:02 | |
there was plenty of other research | 0:04:02 | 0:04:03 | |
that found MSG had no ill effects at all. | 0:04:03 | 0:04:07 | |
Trouble is, it wasn't those studies | 0:04:07 | 0:04:09 | |
that stuck in the public consciousness. | 0:04:09 | 0:04:11 | |
It does give me headaches, actually. | 0:04:12 | 0:04:14 | |
Too much of it gives me a headache. | 0:04:14 | 0:04:15 | |
I think it's bad for you, | 0:04:15 | 0:04:17 | |
because it's quite an artificial ingredient. | 0:04:17 | 0:04:20 | |
It just doesn't make me feel at all good. | 0:04:20 | 0:04:22 | |
Um, like heart racing, palpitations, that sort of thing. | 0:04:22 | 0:04:26 | |
and, um, extreme thirst afterwards. | 0:04:26 | 0:04:27 | |
But is MSG's poor reputation really deserved? | 0:04:27 | 0:04:31 | |
I've come to the University of Hertfordshire | 0:04:31 | 0:04:33 | |
to meet toxicologist Professor Rob Chilcott. | 0:04:33 | 0:04:37 | |
Why has glutamate had such a bad press? | 0:04:37 | 0:04:39 | |
Well, it all started in the late 1960s, | 0:04:39 | 0:04:41 | |
and a physician went for a meal with his wife | 0:04:41 | 0:04:44 | |
at a Chinese restaurant. | 0:04:44 | 0:04:45 | |
And after the meal, he felt that he had a tightness of chest | 0:04:45 | 0:04:49 | |
and some flushing of the skin. | 0:04:49 | 0:04:50 | |
And he found that every time he went to a Chinese restaurant, | 0:04:50 | 0:04:54 | |
it was quite a repeating experience. | 0:04:54 | 0:04:57 | |
And it was that physician who coined the term | 0:04:57 | 0:04:59 | |
"Chinese restaurant syndrome" | 0:04:59 | 0:05:01 | |
and published a paper speculating on what might have caused it. | 0:05:01 | 0:05:04 | |
That prompted the scientific world to investigate, | 0:05:04 | 0:05:07 | |
and soon, the finger was being pointed at MSG, | 0:05:07 | 0:05:11 | |
even though no-one could really agree on the symptoms | 0:05:11 | 0:05:14 | |
that it was supposed to cause. | 0:05:14 | 0:05:16 | |
The symptoms and the signs of MSG exposure, | 0:05:16 | 0:05:19 | |
always seemed to be a little different | 0:05:19 | 0:05:21 | |
depending on who you spoke to. | 0:05:21 | 0:05:22 | |
Why was that? | 0:05:22 | 0:05:23 | |
Probably because a lot of it was a placebo effect. | 0:05:23 | 0:05:25 | |
So, eating food which you think is going to effect you, | 0:05:25 | 0:05:28 | |
will probably have an effect. | 0:05:28 | 0:05:31 | |
In the years that followed, | 0:05:31 | 0:05:32 | |
conflicting reports and studies have continued to appear, | 0:05:32 | 0:05:35 | |
some drawing worrying conclusions, | 0:05:35 | 0:05:38 | |
others unable to prove anything. | 0:05:38 | 0:05:40 | |
Of course, a lot of tests were done in the '70s | 0:05:40 | 0:05:43 | |
which produced some rather alarming results. | 0:05:43 | 0:05:46 | |
They were looking at very high doses, | 0:05:46 | 0:05:48 | |
which are not really representative of the sort of amounts of MSG | 0:05:48 | 0:05:51 | |
you get in a diet. | 0:05:51 | 0:05:52 | |
But even so, there is no evidence to suggest whatsoever | 0:05:52 | 0:05:56 | |
that monosodium glutamate is toxic. | 0:05:56 | 0:05:58 | |
Meanwhile, there is scientific evidence | 0:05:59 | 0:06:02 | |
to suggest that lots of other things that we consume every day | 0:06:02 | 0:06:05 | |
and think are innocuous | 0:06:05 | 0:06:07 | |
are, theoretically, much more dangerous than MSG, | 0:06:07 | 0:06:11 | |
including one we'll all definitely have had | 0:06:11 | 0:06:14 | |
and probably in the last few hours. | 0:06:14 | 0:06:16 | |
A great example is a compound you might have heard of | 0:06:16 | 0:06:19 | |
called dihydrogen monoxide, or DHMO. | 0:06:19 | 0:06:23 | |
Now, DHMO is actually quite toxic. | 0:06:23 | 0:06:25 | |
If you inhale it, you can die, | 0:06:25 | 0:06:27 | |
if you ingest it in large enough quantities, | 0:06:27 | 0:06:29 | |
it causes an electrolyte imbalance which can kill you. | 0:06:29 | 0:06:32 | |
So you would think that there'd be a move | 0:06:32 | 0:06:33 | |
to ban DHMO from our foods. | 0:06:33 | 0:06:36 | |
But, of course, DHMO is water. | 0:06:36 | 0:06:37 | |
Well, despite MSG being so controversial, | 0:06:38 | 0:06:41 | |
you'll still find it in the ingredients list | 0:06:41 | 0:06:43 | |
of a whole host of everyday foods. | 0:06:43 | 0:06:45 | |
The label might not even mention MSG. | 0:06:45 | 0:06:48 | |
Instead, you might see it described as "natural flavourings" | 0:06:48 | 0:06:51 | |
or by its E number, E621. | 0:06:51 | 0:06:54 | |
And the reason it continues to be so widely used | 0:06:54 | 0:06:57 | |
is because it is actually a really powerful flavour enhancer, | 0:06:57 | 0:07:01 | |
boosting the impact of one of the fundamental tastes | 0:07:01 | 0:07:04 | |
that we commonly come across, | 0:07:04 | 0:07:06 | |
even if we never knew that it actually had its own name. | 0:07:06 | 0:07:09 | |
It's a taste known as umami, | 0:07:09 | 0:07:12 | |
a Japanese word that can mean savoury or deliciousness. | 0:07:12 | 0:07:17 | |
There are five major tastes. | 0:07:17 | 0:07:18 | |
There's sweet, salty, sour and bitter. | 0:07:18 | 0:07:22 | |
And the fifth one is umami, | 0:07:22 | 0:07:24 | |
which is this one which monosodium glutamate | 0:07:24 | 0:07:26 | |
really brings out the flavour in food. | 0:07:26 | 0:07:29 | |
So Rob is giving me all of these five common tastes to try. | 0:07:29 | 0:07:33 | |
The first few are very familiar, | 0:07:33 | 0:07:35 | |
but the last one, the one that has that umami taste, | 0:07:35 | 0:07:38 | |
I can't honestly say I recall ever trying before. | 0:07:38 | 0:07:40 | |
Oh! | 0:07:40 | 0:07:42 | |
It's bizarre. I was expecting sweet. | 0:07:42 | 0:07:45 | |
-It...it's savoury. -Yes. | 0:07:47 | 0:07:49 | |
Yes, it's very savoury! | 0:07:49 | 0:07:52 | |
Feels like I've had a sort of soggy chip. | 0:07:52 | 0:07:55 | |
HE LAUGHS | 0:07:55 | 0:07:58 | |
But is it a pleasant taste or a...? | 0:07:58 | 0:07:59 | |
It's not unpleasant. | 0:07:59 | 0:08:01 | |
Definitely not unpleasant. | 0:08:01 | 0:08:03 | |
Actually, funnily enough, what it's doing is | 0:08:03 | 0:08:05 | |
-it's making my taste buds work. -Yes. | 0:08:05 | 0:08:07 | |
Mmm, what is it? | 0:08:07 | 0:08:09 | |
That's actually... | 0:08:09 | 0:08:11 | |
monosodium glutamate. | 0:08:11 | 0:08:12 | |
Oh, right! | 0:08:12 | 0:08:13 | |
It's not just scientists who understand how MSG works | 0:08:15 | 0:08:18 | |
to bring out that umami flavour in foods. | 0:08:18 | 0:08:21 | |
Chef Heston Blumenthal, for example, | 0:08:21 | 0:08:23 | |
actively adds MSG to some of his foods, | 0:08:23 | 0:08:26 | |
recently declaring that it's a really important element of taste, | 0:08:26 | 0:08:31 | |
and the idea that there's anything bad about it | 0:08:31 | 0:08:33 | |
is simply an old wives' tale. | 0:08:33 | 0:08:36 | |
And experts like Rob would say that there is no need to avoid it, | 0:08:36 | 0:08:40 | |
because the official advice from the UN Food and Agriculture Organisation | 0:08:40 | 0:08:44 | |
is that MSG is safe for the vast majority of people. | 0:08:44 | 0:08:48 | |
So maybe this much-maligned ingredient | 0:08:48 | 0:08:50 | |
is about to come back into fashion, | 0:08:50 | 0:08:53 | |
bringing an end to one of the longest-running food scares | 0:08:53 | 0:08:56 | |
of modern times. | 0:08:56 | 0:08:57 | |
One that, many now say, | 0:08:57 | 0:08:59 | |
should never have become so widely accepted in the first place. | 0:08:59 | 0:09:03 | |
Still to come on Rip-Off Britain, | 0:09:08 | 0:09:10 | |
the quick-fix detox solutions | 0:09:10 | 0:09:12 | |
promising to energise and revitalise your body. | 0:09:12 | 0:09:15 | |
But is your wallet the only thing they're really clearing out? | 0:09:15 | 0:09:18 | |
There is no evidence that you can detoxify your body | 0:09:18 | 0:09:22 | |
with any of these products. | 0:09:22 | 0:09:23 | |
Not one of them has a single scientific study | 0:09:23 | 0:09:26 | |
to back up the use of its products. | 0:09:26 | 0:09:28 | |
Now, for decades, cutting something completely out of your diet | 0:09:31 | 0:09:35 | |
has been the starting point for countless diets | 0:09:35 | 0:09:38 | |
and apparently healthy-eating regimes. | 0:09:38 | 0:09:40 | |
And all of those diets really boosted sales of products | 0:09:40 | 0:09:43 | |
sold as being "free from" this, or "free from" that. | 0:09:43 | 0:09:47 | |
Products that were developed for people with a genuine need | 0:09:47 | 0:09:50 | |
to exclude something from their diet. | 0:09:50 | 0:09:52 | |
But now, they're eagerly snapped up | 0:09:52 | 0:09:54 | |
by people who don't have that need, | 0:09:54 | 0:09:56 | |
but just want to avoid particular ingredients | 0:09:56 | 0:09:58 | |
as a lifestyle choice. | 0:09:58 | 0:10:00 | |
Now, these free-from goods | 0:10:00 | 0:10:02 | |
fill up whole aisles of the supermarket these days. | 0:10:02 | 0:10:05 | |
But according to nutritionists, | 0:10:05 | 0:10:07 | |
some of the people buying them are spending well over the odds | 0:10:07 | 0:10:10 | |
on products that will give them no benefit whatsoever. | 0:10:10 | 0:10:13 | |
Whether it's products made without dairy, gluten or wheat, | 0:10:16 | 0:10:20 | |
the market in foods that are free-from | 0:10:20 | 0:10:22 | |
a particular ingredient is booming. | 0:10:22 | 0:10:24 | |
In 2014, it was worth a whopping £365 million pounds, | 0:10:24 | 0:10:29 | |
and it's growing. | 0:10:29 | 0:10:31 | |
These foods were developed for the 2% of people in the UK | 0:10:31 | 0:10:34 | |
who have a genuine medical reason, | 0:10:34 | 0:10:36 | |
for example, an intolerance, | 0:10:36 | 0:10:38 | |
for cutting something out of their diet. | 0:10:38 | 0:10:40 | |
But with up to a third of us reckoned to have bought them, | 0:10:40 | 0:10:43 | |
what exactly is that that we're buying into? | 0:10:43 | 0:10:46 | |
Nutrition therapist Ian Marber has coeliac disease, | 0:10:46 | 0:10:49 | |
meaning he simply can't eat gluten. | 0:10:49 | 0:10:51 | |
So he really does need to eat gluten-free food. | 0:10:51 | 0:10:54 | |
But he believes that anyone who buys it when they don't need to | 0:10:54 | 0:10:57 | |
is falling for a fad. | 0:10:57 | 0:11:00 | |
Gluten-free foods were previously only found in health food stores. | 0:11:00 | 0:11:03 | |
They sort of really promoted the idea that it's healthy, | 0:11:03 | 0:11:06 | |
that gluten-free food is better than normal food. | 0:11:06 | 0:11:08 | |
It doesn't necessarily mean that | 0:11:08 | 0:11:10 | |
the gluten-free version of regular food is actually better, | 0:11:10 | 0:11:12 | |
it's just gluten-free. | 0:11:12 | 0:11:14 | |
Ian believes that some shoppers | 0:11:14 | 0:11:16 | |
don't really understand the point of free-from foods, | 0:11:16 | 0:11:19 | |
and we took him out to put his theory to the test. | 0:11:19 | 0:11:22 | |
Do you know what gluten is? | 0:11:22 | 0:11:23 | |
Well, unlike a lot of people, | 0:11:25 | 0:11:26 | |
you hear about it, you know you should avoid it. | 0:11:26 | 0:11:28 | |
Which one would you say, of those two, was healthier? | 0:11:28 | 0:11:31 | |
Which one looks healthier and feels healthier? | 0:11:31 | 0:11:34 | |
The green one. | 0:11:34 | 0:11:35 | |
Is that because of the colour, or because it says gluten-free? | 0:11:35 | 0:11:37 | |
-Probably because of the colour... -OK. | 0:11:37 | 0:11:39 | |
..and, um, you've got it's free from gluten, | 0:11:39 | 0:11:43 | |
wheat-free and milk-free. | 0:11:43 | 0:11:44 | |
What's happened is that the word gluten-free | 0:11:45 | 0:11:47 | |
has actually become the shorthand for healthy | 0:11:47 | 0:11:49 | |
in the same way that organic or low-fat is. | 0:11:49 | 0:11:51 | |
It gives that aura of health. | 0:11:51 | 0:11:53 | |
Apparently, 42% of the population believe gluten is man-made, | 0:11:53 | 0:11:56 | |
and I think this just underlines the idea that gluten is a bad thing. | 0:11:56 | 0:11:59 | |
It's a poison, it's a toxin that has to be got rid of. | 0:11:59 | 0:12:02 | |
Gluten is the general name | 0:12:02 | 0:12:03 | |
for the proteins found in various grains, such as wheat, | 0:12:03 | 0:12:06 | |
that make so many staple foods in our diets. | 0:12:06 | 0:12:09 | |
It's the stuff that holds bread or pasta together, | 0:12:09 | 0:12:12 | |
acting like a form of glue. | 0:12:12 | 0:12:14 | |
And what particularly worries Ian | 0:12:14 | 0:12:16 | |
is that the way gluten-free foods are formulated | 0:12:16 | 0:12:19 | |
may mean that if you don't need them, | 0:12:19 | 0:12:21 | |
these foods can actually be less healthy | 0:12:21 | 0:12:23 | |
than their regular counterparts. | 0:12:23 | 0:12:25 | |
Gluten gives food a chewiness and a texture, | 0:12:26 | 0:12:29 | |
which is difficult to recreate. | 0:12:29 | 0:12:30 | |
So manufacturers will attempt to recreate that | 0:12:30 | 0:12:32 | |
by using more sugar, | 0:12:32 | 0:12:34 | |
they can use more gum, sometimes more fat. | 0:12:34 | 0:12:36 | |
Now, for someone who's coeliac, | 0:12:36 | 0:12:37 | |
the fact that it's gluten-free is the most important thing, | 0:12:37 | 0:12:40 | |
and they might be able to overlook the extra calories, the extra fat. | 0:12:40 | 0:12:43 | |
But if you're not coeliac, | 0:12:43 | 0:12:44 | |
and you don't necessarily need to be gluten-free, | 0:12:44 | 0:12:46 | |
you might be kidding yourself thinking it's healthier | 0:12:46 | 0:12:48 | |
because you are just taking on more calories and more sugar. | 0:12:48 | 0:12:51 | |
And for many people, | 0:12:51 | 0:12:52 | |
free-from foods are now proving controversial for another reason... | 0:12:52 | 0:12:56 | |
the cost. | 0:12:56 | 0:12:57 | |
A number of Rip-Off Britain viewers have been in touch | 0:13:00 | 0:13:03 | |
to say that they feel that they're being penalised | 0:13:03 | 0:13:05 | |
by having to pay more for these foods | 0:13:05 | 0:13:07 | |
just because they have an allergy, | 0:13:07 | 0:13:09 | |
and they don't think that that's fair. | 0:13:09 | 0:13:11 | |
Sally Waters wrote in very unhappy | 0:13:11 | 0:13:13 | |
that while 1kg of regular porridge costs 75p, | 0:13:13 | 0:13:17 | |
the gluten-free equivalent costs a whopping £7.72. | 0:13:17 | 0:13:22 | |
Wendy Laverick from County Durham e-mailed saying that... | 0:13:22 | 0:13:25 | |
And Leanne Nuttall from Manchester e-mailed us making the same points. | 0:13:31 | 0:13:35 | |
She too has coeliac disease, | 0:13:35 | 0:13:37 | |
and eating anything with gluten in it | 0:13:37 | 0:13:39 | |
can trigger stomach cramps, tiredness and vomiting, | 0:13:39 | 0:13:42 | |
so her shopping list matters more than most. | 0:13:42 | 0:13:44 | |
I have to have a gluten and wheat-free diet | 0:13:46 | 0:13:47 | |
because my body just won't accept it, | 0:13:47 | 0:13:49 | |
and if I try and eat it, I get extremely poorly. | 0:13:49 | 0:13:53 | |
Erm, you can get to the case where I can be in hospital, | 0:13:53 | 0:13:55 | |
it can be that bad. | 0:13:55 | 0:13:57 | |
Leanne was only diagnosed around ten years ago, | 0:13:57 | 0:13:59 | |
and when she first ventured out to her supermarket | 0:13:59 | 0:14:02 | |
to do a gluten-free weekly shop, | 0:14:02 | 0:14:04 | |
she was shocked to find out how much more it cost. | 0:14:04 | 0:14:07 | |
Most people, especially if you're new to being a coeliac, | 0:14:07 | 0:14:10 | |
you'll go straight to the free-from section | 0:14:10 | 0:14:12 | |
and pay probably triple the price. | 0:14:12 | 0:14:15 | |
Tonight, for our tea, | 0:14:15 | 0:14:16 | |
I'm going to have my own gluten and wheat-free chicken pie, | 0:14:16 | 0:14:20 | |
and they're going to have just a normal, average steak pie. | 0:14:20 | 0:14:24 | |
Erm, obviously, I've had to buy two separate boxes. | 0:14:24 | 0:14:28 | |
My gluten and wheat-free one cost me nearly four quid for two pies. | 0:14:28 | 0:14:32 | |
Theirs, for a pack of four, two quid. | 0:14:32 | 0:14:35 | |
Again, big price difference, especially when you're on a budget. | 0:14:36 | 0:14:39 | |
Leanne and the other viewers who contacted us on this | 0:14:39 | 0:14:42 | |
have one simple question | 0:14:42 | 0:14:43 | |
they'd like the manufacturers of all these free-from foods to answer. | 0:14:43 | 0:14:47 | |
Just why are they so expensive? | 0:14:47 | 0:14:50 | |
So we sent Leanne to meet Tobias Kaerst | 0:14:50 | 0:14:52 | |
at a food lab not too far away from where she lives | 0:14:52 | 0:14:55 | |
to find out more about what ingredients | 0:14:55 | 0:14:57 | |
go into her gluten-free food | 0:14:57 | 0:14:59 | |
that makes it so much more pricey. | 0:14:59 | 0:15:00 | |
As you can see, there's obviously a wide range of more ingredients | 0:15:02 | 0:15:05 | |
in the gluten-free one. | 0:15:05 | 0:15:06 | |
I am actually shocked on how much more ingredients there is | 0:15:06 | 0:15:08 | |
for a gluten-free bread compared to a gluten bread. | 0:15:08 | 0:15:11 | |
Well, there's a reason for this, obviously. | 0:15:11 | 0:15:13 | |
With the gluten bread, you obviously get the gluten | 0:15:13 | 0:15:15 | |
which are really, really important as an ingredient for bread. | 0:15:15 | 0:15:18 | |
And somehow, we need to rebuild this using other ingredients | 0:15:18 | 0:15:23 | |
to have the same effect. | 0:15:23 | 0:15:24 | |
Do you think that contributes then to the big price difference? | 0:15:24 | 0:15:27 | |
It does, definitely. | 0:15:27 | 0:15:29 | |
But the main ingredient obviously being used in our bread | 0:15:29 | 0:15:33 | |
is the gluten flour, the wheat flour, | 0:15:33 | 0:15:35 | |
which is grown in this country and everywhere. | 0:15:35 | 0:15:38 | |
With this flour, which we need to use in a gluten-free bread, | 0:15:38 | 0:15:41 | |
we have different flours in there and starches | 0:15:41 | 0:15:44 | |
which are not so common. | 0:15:44 | 0:15:46 | |
Because the gluten is the main ingredient | 0:15:46 | 0:15:49 | |
that holds bread together, | 0:15:49 | 0:15:50 | |
it's very hard to replicate its effects and quality for coeliacs. | 0:15:50 | 0:15:54 | |
Very often find with the gluten-free bread | 0:15:54 | 0:15:56 | |
it's very dry and sometimes it's like cardboard. | 0:15:56 | 0:16:00 | |
Well, this is where food product development technologists | 0:16:00 | 0:16:03 | |
do work on it | 0:16:03 | 0:16:05 | |
and trying, hopefully, to find a solution, | 0:16:05 | 0:16:06 | |
which is a gluten-free product | 0:16:06 | 0:16:08 | |
which is as close as it comes to bread. | 0:16:08 | 0:16:10 | |
Well, I hope they'll come up with something soon | 0:16:10 | 0:16:12 | |
cos I miss a decent sandwich. THEY LAUGH | 0:16:12 | 0:16:15 | |
-GLORIA LAUGHS -Good girl. | 0:16:15 | 0:16:17 | |
Now, the ongoing technological research | 0:16:17 | 0:16:19 | |
and the rarer ingredients used all add to the price, | 0:16:19 | 0:16:22 | |
but Leanne isn't satisfied with what she has to pay for. | 0:16:22 | 0:16:26 | |
The high price is there because you don't have any gluten in there, | 0:16:26 | 0:16:28 | |
and that's the importance of it. | 0:16:28 | 0:16:30 | |
But I think the price needs to reflect its quality. | 0:16:30 | 0:16:32 | |
We're working on it | 0:16:32 | 0:16:33 | |
so that you can have a proper sandwich at one stage | 0:16:33 | 0:16:36 | |
which is like gluten bread. | 0:16:36 | 0:16:39 | |
-So I'm going hold you to that. -You can. | 0:16:39 | 0:16:41 | |
I was actually really shocked. | 0:16:41 | 0:16:43 | |
I didn't realise how much ingredients actually went into the bread. | 0:16:43 | 0:16:47 | |
I'm not as negative towards it. | 0:16:47 | 0:16:49 | |
While Leanne looks forward to the day | 0:16:51 | 0:16:53 | |
when she can enjoy tasty and affordable gluten-free bread, | 0:16:53 | 0:16:56 | |
back at the market, Ian Marber agrees with her | 0:16:56 | 0:16:59 | |
that the higher prices for free-from foods | 0:16:59 | 0:17:01 | |
can be very hard to understand, | 0:17:01 | 0:17:03 | |
especially now that so many people are buying them. | 0:17:03 | 0:17:05 | |
The cost is some way justified, | 0:17:06 | 0:17:08 | |
but it still doesn't explain why sometimes gluten-free food | 0:17:08 | 0:17:11 | |
is double the original. | 0:17:11 | 0:17:12 | |
I can understand 10, 15, 20% more, but certainly not double. | 0:17:12 | 0:17:15 | |
I think the gluten-free market has established itself | 0:17:15 | 0:17:18 | |
as being a certain price | 0:17:18 | 0:17:19 | |
and it's unlikely that's really going to change, | 0:17:19 | 0:17:21 | |
certainly not in the consumer's favour. | 0:17:21 | 0:17:23 | |
I bet, like me, many of you find it hard to avoid temptation | 0:17:28 | 0:17:31 | |
and only eat the things that are good for you. | 0:17:31 | 0:17:33 | |
That's one reason why lots of companies sell | 0:17:33 | 0:17:36 | |
what appear to be a perfect, quick-fix solution. | 0:17:36 | 0:17:39 | |
All manner of products that promise to cleanse and detox our bodies. | 0:17:39 | 0:17:43 | |
In effect, undoing all the bad things we might have done to ourselves. | 0:17:43 | 0:17:47 | |
But when we took a closer look at the bold claims | 0:17:47 | 0:17:50 | |
behind some of the remedies you can buy, | 0:17:50 | 0:17:52 | |
it became clear that while you may think | 0:17:52 | 0:17:54 | |
you're giving your body a crucial overhaul, | 0:17:54 | 0:17:56 | |
all that's really being cleaned out may be your wallet. | 0:17:56 | 0:17:59 | |
Feeling run down? Low on energy? | 0:18:03 | 0:18:06 | |
Poor digestion? | 0:18:06 | 0:18:07 | |
Well, according to some companies, | 0:18:07 | 0:18:09 | |
what you need to do is detox. | 0:18:09 | 0:18:11 | |
But most doctors and experts say that's plain bunkum. | 0:18:11 | 0:18:15 | |
Even so, the detox industry is big business. | 0:18:15 | 0:18:18 | |
And whether it's off the shelf products from high street stores | 0:18:18 | 0:18:21 | |
or special potions and juices delivered to your door, | 0:18:21 | 0:18:24 | |
there's no shortage of companies peddling detox regimes | 0:18:24 | 0:18:28 | |
that claim to cleanse your body and rid it of nasty toxins. | 0:18:28 | 0:18:32 | |
And that's a message that's really appealed | 0:18:35 | 0:18:37 | |
to Eliza Flynn from London. | 0:18:37 | 0:18:40 | |
Eliza's a health writer | 0:18:40 | 0:18:41 | |
and spends a lot of time reviewing health foods and products. | 0:18:41 | 0:18:44 | |
But for her, it's more than just a professional interest, | 0:18:44 | 0:18:48 | |
she's determined to keep her own body in tiptop shape. | 0:18:48 | 0:18:51 | |
And she shares all her thoughts and ideas | 0:18:51 | 0:18:53 | |
on her food and fitness blog. | 0:18:53 | 0:18:56 | |
I started my blog | 0:18:56 | 0:18:57 | |
because I was really interested in trying out | 0:18:57 | 0:19:00 | |
different fitness classes | 0:19:00 | 0:19:02 | |
and, obviously, with fitness there comes food | 0:19:02 | 0:19:04 | |
because you also have to eat well | 0:19:04 | 0:19:06 | |
um, as well as do exercise, | 0:19:06 | 0:19:08 | |
and I love food. | 0:19:08 | 0:19:10 | |
Eliza has tried numerous health regimes and detoxes in the past. | 0:19:10 | 0:19:14 | |
And her blog means that companies | 0:19:14 | 0:19:16 | |
often send her free samples to try and review. | 0:19:16 | 0:19:20 | |
So when one business asked her | 0:19:20 | 0:19:21 | |
to try a new kind of juice detox she'd never had before, | 0:19:21 | 0:19:24 | |
she jumped at the chance. | 0:19:24 | 0:19:26 | |
For the juice detox, | 0:19:26 | 0:19:28 | |
you're sent a whole box of juices | 0:19:28 | 0:19:30 | |
and there's eight for each day for three days. | 0:19:30 | 0:19:33 | |
And that's a mixture of different fruit and vegetable juices, | 0:19:33 | 0:19:37 | |
and you generally have these every two hours. | 0:19:37 | 0:19:39 | |
I don't think I had any expectations, | 0:19:39 | 0:19:41 | |
but I had heard that I could expect to feel lighter, more energised, | 0:19:41 | 0:19:47 | |
my skin could be better, I could sleep better. | 0:19:47 | 0:19:50 | |
Eliza was trying a detox regime | 0:19:50 | 0:19:53 | |
using juices from the company Press, | 0:19:53 | 0:19:55 | |
whose website spelled out the apparent benefits | 0:19:55 | 0:19:57 | |
using all sorts of scientific terms | 0:19:57 | 0:20:00 | |
to describe how the body was actually detoxified. | 0:20:00 | 0:20:03 | |
"This fasting causes our body | 0:20:04 | 0:20:05 | |
"to move from the sympathetic nervous system | 0:20:05 | 0:20:07 | |
"to the parasympathetic nervous system, | 0:20:07 | 0:20:09 | |
"where it can begin to detoxify and heal." | 0:20:09 | 0:20:12 | |
Eliza's juice detox meant she had to go without solid food | 0:20:13 | 0:20:17 | |
for three whole days, | 0:20:17 | 0:20:18 | |
which wasn't always easy. | 0:20:18 | 0:20:19 | |
The only issue I did have with the juice detox | 0:20:21 | 0:20:24 | |
was when my boyfriend was cooking, | 0:20:24 | 0:20:26 | |
um, like, cinnamon buns for breakfast | 0:20:26 | 0:20:29 | |
and I was there with my green juice | 0:20:29 | 0:20:31 | |
and there's only so many green juices you can have. | 0:20:31 | 0:20:34 | |
But in the end, Eliza was convinced it was all worth it. | 0:20:34 | 0:20:38 | |
After the juice detox, | 0:20:38 | 0:20:40 | |
I definitely felt a lot cleaner | 0:20:40 | 0:20:42 | |
and I know that, in terms of stomach-wise, | 0:20:42 | 0:20:46 | |
I didn't feel so bloated, | 0:20:46 | 0:20:48 | |
um, and I definitely had a flatter tummy. | 0:20:48 | 0:20:49 | |
So, is Eliza right in thinking | 0:20:51 | 0:20:53 | |
her body was cleansed of nasty toxins by the juices? | 0:20:53 | 0:20:56 | |
Or is she barking up completely the wrong tree | 0:20:56 | 0:20:59 | |
and feeling better for another reason entirely? | 0:20:59 | 0:21:02 | |
We've brought her to meet clinical dietician Lucy Jones | 0:21:04 | 0:21:07 | |
to see what she makes of such treatments. | 0:21:07 | 0:21:10 | |
Is it possible to detox your body | 0:21:11 | 0:21:13 | |
using products that are out there at the moment? | 0:21:13 | 0:21:15 | |
Such as, you've got tea bags, there's smoothies, juices, etc. | 0:21:15 | 0:21:19 | |
There is no evidence that you can detoxify your body | 0:21:19 | 0:21:23 | |
with any of these products. | 0:21:23 | 0:21:25 | |
And these products are very clever, | 0:21:25 | 0:21:26 | |
that when you look at what they promote about their product | 0:21:26 | 0:21:30 | |
they don't tell you what toxins they're detoxifying | 0:21:30 | 0:21:33 | |
or how they do that, | 0:21:33 | 0:21:34 | |
so there's nothing we can measure. | 0:21:34 | 0:21:36 | |
So not one of them has a single scientific study | 0:21:36 | 0:21:39 | |
to back up the use of its products | 0:21:39 | 0:21:41 | |
cos we never really know what it's doing. | 0:21:41 | 0:21:43 | |
So it stays very vague on its science | 0:21:43 | 0:21:46 | |
in order to make it sound more authoritative. | 0:21:46 | 0:21:49 | |
And it soon becomes clear that | 0:21:50 | 0:21:52 | |
Lucy doesn't think any detox products are necessary at all, | 0:21:52 | 0:21:55 | |
because the body is perfectly good at detoxifying itself. | 0:21:55 | 0:21:59 | |
Our body is a really complicated detoxifying machine. | 0:22:00 | 0:22:04 | |
We continually detoxify our bodies | 0:22:04 | 0:22:07 | |
through a series of chemical reactions taking place | 0:22:07 | 0:22:09 | |
from the lungs, the skin, the liver, the bowel, the kidneys | 0:22:09 | 0:22:13 | |
and all of these organs work all the time | 0:22:13 | 0:22:16 | |
to help detoxify your body. | 0:22:16 | 0:22:18 | |
What there isn't any evidence for | 0:22:18 | 0:22:20 | |
is that you can make them work more effectively | 0:22:20 | 0:22:22 | |
or speed up the process | 0:22:22 | 0:22:24 | |
by using any of these products. | 0:22:24 | 0:22:26 | |
And there are some who'd say the prices of these products | 0:22:26 | 0:22:29 | |
are every bit as inflated as their health claims. | 0:22:29 | 0:22:32 | |
A quick hunt online shows up detox products | 0:22:32 | 0:22:35 | |
that cost as much as £81 for each day's treatment. | 0:22:35 | 0:22:39 | |
And even the one that Eliza tried | 0:22:39 | 0:22:40 | |
would normally cost £149 | 0:22:40 | 0:22:43 | |
for the three-day supply of juices. | 0:22:43 | 0:22:46 | |
All of which might be a reasonable price to pay | 0:22:46 | 0:22:49 | |
if there was a body of scientific evidence | 0:22:49 | 0:22:50 | |
to back up what they say they do. | 0:22:50 | 0:22:53 | |
But Lucy, in common with all the other experts we've spoken to, | 0:22:53 | 0:22:56 | |
is adamant that there isn't. | 0:22:56 | 0:22:58 | |
And she's not remotely convinced when Eliza reads to her | 0:22:58 | 0:23:02 | |
some of the claims that a variety of detox products have made | 0:23:02 | 0:23:05 | |
to explain how they're supposed to work. | 0:23:05 | 0:23:07 | |
"These toxins are stored in fat cells, tissues, | 0:23:07 | 0:23:10 | |
"bodily organs, even the brain. | 0:23:10 | 0:23:12 | |
"Fatigue, allergies, weight gain, low energy, | 0:23:12 | 0:23:15 | |
"poor immunity and many other health conditions | 0:23:15 | 0:23:17 | |
"are all signs that we're not detoxifying properly." | 0:23:17 | 0:23:20 | |
That's an unbelievable claim. | 0:23:20 | 0:23:22 | |
So, basically, what they're saying is, | 0:23:22 | 0:23:23 | |
no matter what's wrong with you, | 0:23:23 | 0:23:25 | |
all you need to do is use their product. | 0:23:25 | 0:23:27 | |
I just think it's...it's terrible. | 0:23:27 | 0:23:29 | |
It's really preying on people's health conditions | 0:23:29 | 0:23:32 | |
and health concerns | 0:23:32 | 0:23:33 | |
and there's absolutely no evidence to back this up at all. | 0:23:33 | 0:23:36 | |
The organs they're talking about, | 0:23:36 | 0:23:38 | |
things like the liver, the kidneys, the colon, | 0:23:38 | 0:23:40 | |
actually, we don't store toxins there, | 0:23:40 | 0:23:43 | |
they convert them and eliminate them. | 0:23:43 | 0:23:44 | |
That's the job of those organs. | 0:23:44 | 0:23:46 | |
But even if there's no proof that detoxes actually work, | 0:23:46 | 0:23:49 | |
there's no escaping that the juice one Eliza tried | 0:23:49 | 0:23:52 | |
did make her feel better. | 0:23:52 | 0:23:54 | |
I really enjoyed the juice cleanse | 0:23:54 | 0:23:56 | |
and I felt there were some personal benefits for me, | 0:23:56 | 0:23:59 | |
so what is the problem with that? | 0:23:59 | 0:24:01 | |
Oh, there's nothing wrong with that | 0:24:01 | 0:24:03 | |
and nobody can change your experience. | 0:24:03 | 0:24:06 | |
What we're looking at is, | 0:24:06 | 0:24:07 | |
will surviving off juices alone over three days, | 0:24:07 | 0:24:11 | |
paying an awful lot of money to a company to do so, | 0:24:11 | 0:24:15 | |
actually meet the health claims that it purports? | 0:24:15 | 0:24:17 | |
And in this sense, none of the products that we've looked at | 0:24:17 | 0:24:21 | |
actually have any evidence to support those claims. | 0:24:21 | 0:24:24 | |
Of course, the companies behind these lucrative products would disagree. | 0:24:26 | 0:24:30 | |
So we asked six of them to prove the science | 0:24:30 | 0:24:32 | |
behind the claims they make for their detox products. | 0:24:32 | 0:24:35 | |
But only one replied, | 0:24:35 | 0:24:37 | |
and that was the one whose juice cleanse Eliza tested out, Press. | 0:24:37 | 0:24:41 | |
It told us it's working with nutritionists to clarify... | 0:24:44 | 0:24:47 | |
But acknowledged that, for now... | 0:24:50 | 0:24:51 | |
The company argues that these days, detox is... | 0:24:58 | 0:25:01 | |
..and can mean anything | 0:25:03 | 0:25:04 | |
that involves you taking a break from the... | 0:25:04 | 0:25:06 | |
..that are part of modern-day life. | 0:25:09 | 0:25:11 | |
For example, laying off alcohol for a weekend. | 0:25:11 | 0:25:14 | |
As such, its juice cleanse is aimed at... | 0:25:15 | 0:25:18 | |
..to allow the body some time to "redress the balance". | 0:25:22 | 0:25:26 | |
And it said that, like Eliza, | 0:25:26 | 0:25:28 | |
90% of their thousand or so clients | 0:25:28 | 0:25:30 | |
say they've experienced positive results. | 0:25:30 | 0:25:33 | |
As for Eliza herself, | 0:25:35 | 0:25:36 | |
despite hearing how critical the medical profession can be | 0:25:36 | 0:25:40 | |
of the detox industry as a whole, | 0:25:40 | 0:25:41 | |
she remains open-minded. | 0:25:41 | 0:25:44 | |
I don't think its right that these companies | 0:25:45 | 0:25:47 | |
are using such terms on their websites | 0:25:47 | 0:25:48 | |
and to sell their products | 0:25:48 | 0:25:50 | |
if there's no scientific basis in it. | 0:25:50 | 0:25:52 | |
I think, for me, though, | 0:25:52 | 0:25:54 | |
I felt a lot of benefit from doing a juice detox | 0:25:54 | 0:25:58 | |
and so I'd do one again. | 0:25:58 | 0:25:59 | |
Here at Rip-Off Britain, | 0:26:07 | 0:26:08 | |
we're always ready to investigate more of your stories on any subject. | 0:26:08 | 0:26:13 | |
Confused over your bills | 0:26:13 | 0:26:14 | |
or just trying to wade through never-ending small print? | 0:26:14 | 0:26:17 | |
It's very frustrating | 0:26:18 | 0:26:19 | |
because it makes what should be a quite simple job | 0:26:19 | 0:26:22 | |
a lot more complicated, | 0:26:22 | 0:26:23 | |
and I think some people just give up, | 0:26:23 | 0:26:25 | |
and so they don't get the best deal. | 0:26:25 | 0:26:26 | |
Maybe you're unsure what to do when you discover you've lost out | 0:26:26 | 0:26:30 | |
and that so-called great deal has ended up costing you money. | 0:26:30 | 0:26:35 | |
People are buying into this. | 0:26:35 | 0:26:36 | |
I did, you know, | 0:26:36 | 0:26:37 | |
and are they going to be as awkward with them as they were with me? | 0:26:37 | 0:26:41 | |
You might have a cautionary tale of your own | 0:26:41 | 0:26:43 | |
and want to share the mistakes that you've made with us. | 0:26:43 | 0:26:45 | |
Well, it upsets me an awful lot | 0:26:45 | 0:26:47 | |
because, you know, I'm retired | 0:26:47 | 0:26:49 | |
and I...begrudge having to pay that kind of money out. | 0:26:49 | 0:26:53 | |
You can write to us at... | 0:26:55 | 0:26:57 | |
Or send us an e-mail to... | 0:27:06 | 0:27:07 | |
The Rip-Off team is ready and waiting to investigate your stories. | 0:27:11 | 0:27:15 | |
Well, as we've seen, | 0:27:19 | 0:27:20 | |
when so many of us really care about what the food we eat | 0:27:20 | 0:27:23 | |
is doing to our bodies, | 0:27:23 | 0:27:25 | |
it doesn't take much to get us rushing to buy something | 0:27:25 | 0:27:27 | |
we're told is good for us | 0:27:27 | 0:27:29 | |
or shunning something we think isn't, | 0:27:29 | 0:27:31 | |
even if the reality of the health message behind it all | 0:27:31 | 0:27:34 | |
doesn't completely stack up. | 0:27:34 | 0:27:35 | |
And how true is that? | 0:27:35 | 0:27:37 | |
Well, sometimes, all those press stories | 0:27:37 | 0:27:39 | |
and very clever marketing | 0:27:39 | 0:27:40 | |
might mean that what we've been told previously | 0:27:40 | 0:27:43 | |
is what really sticks in the memory | 0:27:43 | 0:27:45 | |
long after it's turned out either to be exaggerated, | 0:27:45 | 0:27:47 | |
or worse, completely untrue. | 0:27:47 | 0:27:49 | |
And, of course, we want to believe that | 0:27:49 | 0:27:51 | |
we're doing the right things for these gorgeous bodies. | 0:27:51 | 0:27:53 | |
-Our temples. -Don't we just, don't we just. | 0:27:53 | 0:27:56 | |
So the next time that you're shopping, | 0:27:56 | 0:27:57 | |
take a very careful look | 0:27:57 | 0:27:59 | |
at what those labels are actually saying | 0:27:59 | 0:28:01 | |
and don't just assume that every health message | 0:28:01 | 0:28:04 | |
is all that it's cracked up to be. | 0:28:04 | 0:28:06 | |
Sometimes an extra dose of scepticism | 0:28:06 | 0:28:08 | |
can be every bit as healthy | 0:28:08 | 0:28:10 | |
as some of the claims that we come across, | 0:28:10 | 0:28:12 | |
and, of course, it can save you quite a bit of money. | 0:28:12 | 0:28:14 | |
But I'm afraid it's on that thought | 0:28:14 | 0:28:16 | |
that we have to leave you for today. | 0:28:16 | 0:28:18 | |
So, until the next time, | 0:28:18 | 0:28:19 | |
thanks very much indeed for joining us, | 0:28:19 | 0:28:21 | |
-and, as always, come back soon. -Bye-bye. -Bye-bye. -Bye. | 0:28:21 | 0:28:23 |