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Fraud is the UK's national disgrace. A staggering ?20 billion stolen from | :00:00. | :00:14. | |
the state last year - more than the government spends on all our police. | :00:15. | :00:22. | |
I'm Richard Bilton. In this series I'm on the front line with the | :00:23. | :00:27. | |
investigators fighting fraud. Get the car clamped or removed? Let's | :00:28. | :00:32. | |
remove it. Tonight, Blue Badge wars - the people who see disabled bays | :00:33. | :00:37. | |
as free parking. How can I calm down when my car was towed? Cos you had | :00:38. | :00:41. | |
taken a disabled space from somebody who needs the bay. The con man on | :00:42. | :00:46. | |
benefits with a string of businesses, properties and a secret | :00:47. | :00:52. | |
life. This is the latest manifestation of my mid-life crisis, | :00:53. | :00:59. | |
which seems to be going on for ever. And the seemingly respectable | :01:00. | :01:01. | |
businessmen who see VAT as a profitable scam. Can we cut the | :01:02. | :01:15. | |
filming please? Andrea Cordery's job is to track down con men. She thinks | :01:16. | :01:20. | |
she's found one, and she's on her way to deliver a summons. This is | :01:21. | :01:28. | |
not just some lone parent doing an extra cleaning job or something to | :01:29. | :01:31. | |
feed her starving children or his starving children. This has been | :01:32. | :01:37. | |
quite, um, deceitful, to say the least. Andrea works for Croydon | :01:38. | :01:48. | |
Council, and this has been a difficult case. Good morning. Is | :01:49. | :02:02. | |
that Mr Sussams? Yeah. Hi, I've got something for you. If I could just | :02:03. | :02:11. | |
leave that for you. Thank you very much. I've managed to serve him with | :02:12. | :02:15. | |
the summons, I'm just going to make a note of it. We'll hopefully see | :02:16. | :02:19. | |
him in court next week. Good. Happy, yes! Andrea's target is a man | :02:20. | :02:23. | |
accused of stealing ?32,000. Stephen Sussams had been getting benefits to | :02:24. | :02:26. | |
care for his sick friend, Keith Dickenson. When he died he should | :02:27. | :02:31. | |
have told the council. They say he didn't - he just kept taking the | :02:32. | :02:37. | |
cash. The person who was in charge of Keith Dickenson's affairs, | :02:38. | :02:40. | |
according to our records, was his partner, Stephen Sussams. The day | :02:41. | :02:45. | |
after his partner passed away he'd actually gone in and started taking | :02:46. | :02:49. | |
money out of the account. The account was not closed, it kept on | :02:50. | :02:53. | |
running, so the council kept on paying into... For care for a dead | :02:54. | :03:00. | |
man? For care for a dead man. The council say Mr Sussams cleared more | :03:01. | :03:04. | |
than ?17,000 from his dead friend's bank account. We needed to get that | :03:05. | :03:10. | |
money back, so we wrote to him in 2009 asking him to give us a refund | :03:11. | :03:15. | |
of this money. He did not want to take responsibility for that. That | :03:16. | :03:19. | |
led to us having to have a closer look at his affairs, and then it | :03:20. | :03:23. | |
just opened up a whole can of worms for him. I've been looking at this | :03:24. | :03:33. | |
case for two years. The more I dug, the more extraordinary it became. It | :03:34. | :03:40. | |
began in one of the smartest parts of Devon. We'd heard that Mr Sussams | :03:41. | :03:47. | |
had been spotted at the Royal Dart pub. It's a historic building on the | :03:48. | :03:53. | |
waterfront - next to a beautiful marina - and Mr Sussams seemed to be | :03:54. | :03:56. | |
in charge. Our undercover reporter caught him as he was getting out of | :03:57. | :03:58. | |
his Bentley. So, for all that time Stephen | :03:59. | :04:33. | |
Sussams seemed to be living a double life. Croydon Council gave him a | :04:34. | :04:38. | |
flat and reduced council tax because they thought he was struggling. But, | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
in reality, he was living the high life on the English Riviera. | :04:43. | :04:59. | |
There were two things wrong with what he was doing. You can't have a | :05:00. | :05:05. | |
council flat if you don't live in it, and you can't get benefits if | :05:06. | :05:08. | |
you're earning a decent living from your own business. Mr Sussams? I'm | :05:09. | :05:15. | |
Richard Bilton from BBC Panorama. I was wondering how you could get | :05:16. | :05:18. | |
benefits and a council house when you've got a pub down in Devon? As | :05:19. | :05:23. | |
you know... The case is under investigation by the council. I've | :05:24. | :05:26. | |
no intention of being involved in trial by television. This is your | :05:27. | :05:32. | |
right to reply, because this is a very nice car, you've got a lovely | :05:33. | :05:37. | |
pub... Well, Mr Sussams has now got a real trial on his hands. So, yeah, | :05:38. | :05:44. | |
we're... It's sooner than we thought but, yeah... Let's get it to court | :05:45. | :05:49. | |
and let's get a decision on it. Andrea is off to a pre-trial hearing | :05:50. | :05:52. | |
to see how Stephen Sussams will plead. At this point, what would be | :05:53. | :06:00. | |
good is if he just entered a guilty plea and then we won't need to waste | :06:01. | :06:05. | |
any more of the tax payers' money. The stakes are high. Croydon has | :06:06. | :06:08. | |
spent thousands investigating this case. But Mr Sussams says he'll | :06:09. | :06:10. | |
fight to clear his name. This is Mark. He's one of our...one | :06:11. | :06:38. | |
of our best investigators on the team. I like to use him as my junior | :06:39. | :06:43. | |
as much as possible. Thank you. I'll pay you later! Try to teach him the | :06:44. | :06:49. | |
ropes. Marcin and Mark are out on Blue Badge patrol in one of the | :06:50. | :06:52. | |
smartest parts of London - Kensington Chelsea. Their job is | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
to make sure the disabled parking spaces are only used by those | :06:57. | :07:00. | |
registered as disabled. Not anyone using a badge for a bit of free | :07:01. | :07:09. | |
parking. So where's this lady? Somewhere here. Somewhere here? | :07:10. | :07:15. | |
Yeah. Can you be more specific? We're going on holidays and they're | :07:16. | :07:19. | |
shopping. OK. So where are you going to meet her?. Here. What time? When | :07:20. | :07:26. | |
they've finished they'll call me. So when do you think that will be? | :07:27. | :07:30. | |
Couple of hours, three hours? OK. It's actually an offence to park in | :07:31. | :07:33. | |
a disabled bay and use a disabled badge that doesn't belong to you and | :07:34. | :07:37. | |
the person isn't in the vehicle. Yeah, but I'm having to drop them in | :07:38. | :07:41. | |
the shop. What I'm going to have to do is caution you. Yeah. 'It's | :07:42. | :07:44. | |
usually just everyday normal people' that wouldn't think about doing | :07:45. | :07:47. | |
anything more serious, but they are quite happy to do this and they | :07:48. | :07:51. | |
don't often think that there's a victim to this. They don't see it as | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
a crime sometimes. Yeah. If they see an opportunity to save a bit of | :07:56. | :07:59. | |
money, they think that the benefits outweigh the risks and they have a | :08:00. | :08:02. | |
go. Are you disabled? No, I'm not. So you should have parked in a pay | :08:03. | :08:06. | |
and display bay and paid for parking. I got out to go to my... | :08:07. | :08:11. | |
This, I want to use my boot. I haven't parked here yet. I'm going | :08:12. | :08:14. | |
to pick up my mum now, I'm just picking up money... But this is for | :08:15. | :08:18. | |
people with a disability so they can park... But I'm the registered... | :08:19. | :08:21. | |
All right, OK, but I... You've stopped in a disabled bay. The badge | :08:22. | :08:25. | |
is on display on the screen. But I wasn't parking. Listen I'm sorry, | :08:26. | :08:29. | |
but I believe an offence has been committed, Can I have my badges | :08:30. | :08:34. | |
back? No, you can't. They're not your disabled badges. No-one told me | :08:35. | :08:38. | |
that I can't use them while my mum's not in the car. I won't use them, | :08:39. | :08:43. | |
I'll go and move the car and you can write your report. We will report | :08:44. | :08:46. | |
that. You can report it, I know you will. Fine. Have a good day. Yeah, | :08:47. | :08:50. | |
same to you. He's just basically got himself into court. We might have | :08:51. | :08:54. | |
just given him a caution, but now he's definitely going to court so... | :08:55. | :08:57. | |
And Marcin and Mark's work is appreciated by those who need he | :08:58. | :09:00. | |
spaces. Why, what's going on? We're just making sure people are using | :09:01. | :09:03. | |
their badges correctly. Oh, right, OK. So, thank you very much. No | :09:04. | :09:07. | |
problem at all. 'I rarely come around here because there's only | :09:08. | :09:10. | |
just two slots' and if the wrong person gets it it's not fair. Cos | :09:11. | :09:13. | |
people with disabilities do really need to get out and most of the time | :09:14. | :09:17. | |
you can't. So I'm grateful that they're out. I'll be obliged to show | :09:18. | :09:21. | |
them my pass and with a smile, as well. Blue Badge abuse is a small | :09:22. | :09:26. | |
crime, but it's carried out by a lot of people. It costs us all ?46 | :09:27. | :09:30. | |
million a year in lost revenue - money that could go on schools and | :09:31. | :09:36. | |
hospitals. And all for a bit of free parking. Now we wait. We wait. Look | :09:37. | :09:47. | |
at that, straight down a No Entry. And another. Oh, here we go, is he | :09:48. | :09:54. | |
parking? I think we've got one. Is she going into the bay? I don't know | :09:55. | :09:59. | |
if she's actually displayed the badge just yet. Yep, there we go. | :10:00. | :10:06. | |
She's just placed it now. Is it OK if I see the badge? Yeah, sure. | :10:07. | :10:20. | |
Thank you. If you want to see the details... Thank you very much. It's | :10:21. | :10:28. | |
the same surname. That's OK. She said that she's just picking her | :10:29. | :10:32. | |
mother up now. OK. So how long do you reckon you'll going to be? Half | :10:33. | :10:36. | |
an hour, an hour? I'm not sure. I need to help her shopping in. | :10:37. | :10:40. | |
Whereabouts is she? Inside Harrods. Have you just dropped her off? No, | :10:41. | :10:47. | |
I'm picking her up. OK. All right. All right? OK. And I'd like you not | :10:48. | :10:54. | |
to take any pictures of me. OK. We'll give you half-an-hour. And we | :10:55. | :10:58. | |
need to see... And I want to see any documents of you, that you're, er... | :10:59. | :11:02. | |
Yeah, I just showed you my ID. ID of what? That's my Kensington Chelsea | :11:03. | :11:06. | |
badge, it's got my name on it. But you're not a traffic warden, are | :11:07. | :11:10. | |
you? The woman heads off to Harrods, but Marcin has his suspicions. He | :11:11. | :11:13. | |
calls the office. We've just stopped a lady who's using a Barnet Blue | :11:14. | :11:16. | |
Badge. I was just wondering would you be able to call her at home and | :11:17. | :11:21. | |
see if she's at home or if she's out and about? Yeah? RADIO: 'Yeah, two | :11:22. | :11:25. | |
seconds. Stay on the line.' All right brilliant. Yeah, great. | :11:26. | :11:27. | |
They'll soon know whether she's telling the truth. SIREN Finally, | :11:28. | :11:39. | |
one that's got caught! In Croydon, the council has got a fight on its | :11:40. | :11:42. | |
hands. Stephen Sussams is accused of stealing housing benefit, council | :11:43. | :11:45. | |
tax benefit, and of clearing ?17,000 of benefits out of his dead friend's | :11:46. | :11:59. | |
bank account. He's denied it all. We're pleading not guilty to | :12:00. | :12:02. | |
everything. I've spoken to my barrister, they're quite happy that | :12:03. | :12:06. | |
we should plead not guilty, I think we have to plead not guilty because | :12:07. | :12:09. | |
I don't believe I've done anything wrong. Nothing really surprises me | :12:10. | :12:17. | |
in this job. At the end of the day, he's the person who is being put on | :12:18. | :12:21. | |
trial and he has a right to plead not guilty if he feels he's | :12:22. | :12:25. | |
innocent. You know, if my defence barrister can put everything across | :12:26. | :12:28. | |
correctly, which I'm hoping he will be able to...er... ..then I see no | :12:29. | :12:33. | |
reason why I should be found guilty of anything. It is my life that I'm | :12:34. | :12:40. | |
fighting for. It's my freedom, it's my reputation. It's everything | :12:41. | :12:45. | |
you've worked for over the last 40 years. The case will be judged on | :12:46. | :12:54. | |
the evidence that is put forward. Hopefully, I've got a good enough | :12:55. | :13:00. | |
case. But anything can happen in court. It all depends on what | :13:01. | :13:04. | |
happens on the day, really. Andrea has a tense wait before the trial | :13:05. | :13:13. | |
begins for real. She is at home? RADIO: 'She is at home, she does | :13:14. | :13:17. | |
have a badge.' OK. Back outside Harrods, Marcin and Mark have heard | :13:18. | :13:20. | |
back from the office. The woman in the 4x4 can't be picking up her | :13:21. | :13:26. | |
mother-in-law. The badge holder is definitely at home in Barnet. The | :13:27. | :13:30. | |
mother-in-law is 12 miles away. Marcin and Mark were told a lie. | :13:31. | :13:36. | |
Shall we get the car clamped or removed? Let's remove it. They have | :13:37. | :13:44. | |
the car ticketed so it can be towed if she doesn't come back first. We | :13:45. | :13:52. | |
don't know where we stand with Marcin pulling out and stopping the | :13:53. | :13:58. | |
car! Let's try it and see what happens. THEY LAUGH This is high | :13:59. | :14:03. | |
level fraud we're dealing with here. Oh, she's there! She's there! No, | :14:04. | :14:14. | |
you're not taking pictures. Why are you... Excuse me, madam. My | :14:15. | :14:23. | |
mother-in-law is inside the building. Do you know that? Marcin | :14:24. | :14:31. | |
tries to explain to the woman that he knows her mother-in-law is not in | :14:32. | :14:35. | |
Harrods but at home. It's her last chance. Sorry, can you come and | :14:36. | :14:44. | |
speak to us? One second, one second, David. One second, somebody wants to | :14:45. | :14:48. | |
speak to me. One second. No, I don't want to speak to you. It's less | :14:49. | :15:00. | |
about the badge and the offence that she's done and more about how angry | :15:01. | :15:04. | |
she is in the situation and how we need to calm her down and just let | :15:05. | :15:09. | |
her go and get on with it. It's annoying, because you know you've | :15:10. | :15:12. | |
done something wrong, so just hold your hands up. Take your punishment. | :15:13. | :15:15. | |
Take your punishment, basically for trying to commit a fraud and saving | :15:16. | :15:20. | |
yourself, what, ?5? She didn't look like she needed to save an extra ?5, | :15:21. | :15:22. | |
did she? You know? The woman will now have to head to | :15:23. | :15:55. | |
the pound to get her car back. As a nation, we're not good at stopping | :15:56. | :15:59. | |
fraud, and tax fraud is ten times as big as benefit fraud. ?14 billion is | :16:00. | :16:05. | |
lost to people who don't pay their fair share. Teams from Her Majesty's | :16:06. | :16:11. | |
Revenue Customs have the job of clawing that money back. I would | :16:12. | :16:19. | |
like to welcome you all to the briefing for operation Go-Kart. I'm | :16:20. | :16:22. | |
the case manager and silver command for tomorrow. Gold for the day is | :16:23. | :16:25. | |
Andrew McKie, who is also the officer in charge of the | :16:26. | :16:27. | |
investigation. Our communications strategy will be by radio only. I | :16:28. | :16:31. | |
want you to ensure that the two suspects in this case are removed | :16:32. | :16:35. | |
and put into custody as soon as possible. Their targets are two | :16:36. | :16:45. | |
respectable-looking businessmen. Julian Stone runs a string of | :16:46. | :16:49. | |
drycleaners and Nicholas Harris is a builder who's done work for Stone in | :16:50. | :16:55. | |
the past. This all started off with seven invoices coming into local | :16:56. | :17:00. | |
compliance. The invoices we suspect are false, and they're being used by | :17:01. | :17:03. | |
one of the suspects to reduce his liability by about ?435,000. The | :17:04. | :17:08. | |
second suspect has potentially under-declared VAT of nearly | :17:09. | :17:11. | |
?200,000, so we're talking about in excess of ?600,000 for this fraud. | :17:12. | :17:20. | |
Next morning, and it's an early start for the teams. They plan to | :17:21. | :17:24. | |
arrest both of the suspects at the same time. Because these are almost | :17:25. | :17:31. | |
all undercover officers, we've had to disguise most of their | :17:32. | :17:38. | |
identities. Derek Chisholm is used to this kind of work but he still | :17:39. | :17:45. | |
gets tense. In the team that I'm located in we have these probably | :17:46. | :17:49. | |
once a week. There will always be adrenalin. If there's not then it | :17:50. | :17:53. | |
can't be good. You're always nervous, cos you don't know what's | :17:54. | :17:55. | |
going to happen. Confirm address, number 19. Derek's | :17:56. | :18:10. | |
team is looking for the builder, Nicholas Harris. Not sure if the | :18:11. | :18:32. | |
bell's working. Mr Harris? Yeah. Morning, Derek Chisholm, Revenue | :18:33. | :18:38. | |
Customs. I'll just show you my ID. I'm actually here today to arrest | :18:39. | :18:43. | |
you. Why? I will go through that, but do you want to possibly go round | :18:44. | :18:47. | |
the corner here so you're out of sight of everybody? OK, the reason | :18:48. | :18:52. | |
you are being arrested today is on suspicion of fraud. It relates to | :18:53. | :18:57. | |
suspected fraudulent invoices used in the evasion of VAT and | :18:58. | :19:00. | |
Corporation Tax. We'd like to transport you to the police station, | :19:01. | :19:02. | |
please. We pulled out some documents and | :19:03. | :19:11. | |
paperwork relating to Mr Harris and his companies. We've also bought out | :19:12. | :19:16. | |
a laptop that will be examined by forensic analysts at a later date to | :19:17. | :19:23. | |
see if it's of evidential value. That went quite well. Initially it | :19:24. | :19:27. | |
was a bit of a problem in that he wasn't at home. We were lucky to a | :19:28. | :19:32. | |
point just asking questions in the neighbourhood to find out his | :19:33. | :19:36. | |
location. We got him back. Demeanour - calm, therefore my decision was | :19:37. | :19:40. | |
not to handcuff him. We'll take him now down to custody, get him | :19:41. | :19:43. | |
detained, legal advice and, hopefully, the interview under | :19:44. | :19:54. | |
caution. A few miles away, the other team is at Julian Stone's business. | :19:55. | :20:02. | |
I've got a warrant to search the premises from the Magistrates' Court | :20:03. | :20:09. | |
at City of London... Yep. ..which is to search the premises here and any | :20:10. | :20:13. | |
computers, as well. Word of their arrival has spread. Yes, just for | :20:14. | :20:18. | |
your information his accountant has just telephoned the officer manager. | :20:19. | :20:21. | |
She was enquiring how many officers were on the premises and she's on | :20:22. | :20:28. | |
her way, too. To me that would indicate how many people... She's | :20:29. | :20:32. | |
probably teeing up his lawyers. I think one of our guys tried to speak | :20:33. | :20:36. | |
to the accountant, but she hung up before we could speak to her so... | :20:37. | :20:42. | |
Unusual. And it's not long before Mr Stone turns up. I don't want to be | :20:43. | :20:47. | |
filmed. Can we cut the filming, please? HMRC suspect the two are | :20:48. | :20:51. | |
working together - that Nicholas Harris has been sending false | :20:52. | :20:57. | |
invoices to Julian Stone. Well, I did... Yeah, no, I fully appreciate | :20:58. | :21:03. | |
that, Sir, I fully appreciate that. These operations are important. The | :21:04. | :21:06. | |
gap between what is owed and what is collected is huge and adding to the | :21:07. | :21:09. | |
country's growing mountain of debt. For Marcin and Mark, it's round two | :21:10. | :21:22. | |
with the Blue Badge cheat. Tila Feiner, who parked illegally outside | :21:23. | :21:26. | |
Harrods, has turned up at the pound with her mother-in-law. Hiya. Hello. | :21:27. | :21:37. | |
I am fuming! Really? Fuming. She was with me in the store! I said to you | :21:38. | :21:43. | |
I am picking her up. When I came... "She's in Harrods, I'm picking her | :21:44. | :21:46. | |
up," you said. No, I made up, because we've got a wedding. Oh, you | :21:47. | :21:50. | |
made that up? Are you...? Is that what you just said? No, I said I | :21:51. | :21:55. | |
made up with her to pick her up from Harrods. Do you understand what it | :21:56. | :21:59. | |
means? Make up? Make up? To make up is to make an appointment to meet | :22:00. | :22:03. | |
somebody. OK. So, at the time you told us... Yes. ..that she's in | :22:04. | :22:06. | |
Harrods, "I've come to pick her up, I'll be ten minutes." I was in | :22:07. | :22:10. | |
Harrods, I nearly fell down the escalators just now. She was at home | :22:11. | :22:14. | |
- how are you picking her up from Harrods if she's at home? Because I | :22:15. | :22:18. | |
don't know what time she's going to be in Harrods. She might decide to | :22:19. | :22:22. | |
be half-an-hour or an hour later. I don't know what time she decided. | :22:23. | :22:26. | |
You said you came to pick her up. Correct. She is inside Harrods. I | :22:27. | :22:29. | |
didn't say she's inside Harrods. You said, "She's inside, I can bring her | :22:30. | :22:32. | |
here in ten minutes." I made arrangements to meet her. Can you | :22:33. | :22:36. | |
calm down? How can I calm down when my car, my car was towed away...? It | :22:37. | :22:40. | |
was towed because your mother-in-law was at home in Barnet. That's the | :22:41. | :22:44. | |
reason. Do you want to sit down? I'm going to go with your | :22:45. | :22:46. | |
daughter-in-law to the vehicle and we're going to get the disabled | :22:47. | :22:50. | |
badge, OK? Have you got the keys? Yeah. Have you paid yet? No, I'm not | :22:51. | :22:54. | |
going to pay. You're not? No, you're going to release the car. Why should | :22:55. | :22:58. | |
I pay for something that just wasn't right? Why should you do that? No, | :22:59. | :23:02. | |
we're not going to release the car. Why? Simple as that. Because an | :23:03. | :23:05. | |
offence has been committed. We towed it because you had taken a disabled | :23:06. | :23:08. | |
space from somebody who needs the bay. Not you, somebody who needs it. | :23:09. | :23:12. | |
She needs it. She didn't need it, she was at home. We're going to | :23:13. | :23:16. | |
stand out ground. We know that the law is on our side. You can scream | :23:17. | :23:20. | |
and shout all day long or we can sort this out quickly. She finally | :23:21. | :23:24. | |
agrees to pay up. What do I need now? She'll get her car back, but | :23:25. | :23:28. | |
it's not finished. She'll now be charged. Can she come with me? Yeah, | :23:29. | :23:34. | |
I think so. Thank you. Good doing business with you. The moral of the | :23:35. | :23:47. | |
story is don't try and fight the law when the law is called Mitchey and | :23:48. | :23:49. | |
Marcin. First day of the trial, how are you | :23:50. | :24:01. | |
feeling? Yeah, good. It's the start of the Stephen Sussams trial. | :24:02. | :24:07. | |
Confident? I'm a bit breathless at the moment you'll have to wait. He | :24:08. | :24:12. | |
faces charges of fraud amounting to ?32,000, but he's come out fighting. | :24:13. | :24:17. | |
Well, I'm just going to go in there and ask for a little bit more time. | :24:18. | :24:21. | |
We're a little bit stressed. The defendant has pulled a few surprises | :24:22. | :24:25. | |
out the bag, so we've been rushing around quite a lot in the last few | :24:26. | :24:33. | |
days. Stephen Sussams thinks the council's case is flawed. This here, | :24:34. | :24:40. | |
that needs to come out. What the letter? Yep. Right. OK. Because the | :24:41. | :24:47. | |
defence are arguing that the jury shouldn't even be told that he was | :24:48. | :24:50. | |
invited to interview and failed to attend. But he was invited to attend | :24:51. | :24:55. | |
interviews. Yeah. As a professional fraudster you would have an answer | :24:56. | :24:58. | |
to everything, you would try to, um... Get out of taking | :24:59. | :25:07. | |
responsibility for your actions. I'm hoping that they can see this case | :25:08. | :25:10. | |
for what it is. That they're dealing with a professional fraudster. | :25:11. | :25:20. | |
Simple. Will you send me copies? If you'd like, Sir. Sorry? If you'd | :25:21. | :25:26. | |
like, yeah. The case is getting a lot of attention, but he isn't | :25:27. | :25:29. | |
cracking under the pressure. Come in. Stephen Sussams is confident | :25:30. | :25:37. | |
he's innocent and has agreed to speak to us. It's a vindictive | :25:38. | :25:41. | |
prosecution, trying to make an example of someone. I don't think I | :25:42. | :25:45. | |
did anything wrong, or knowingly did anything wrong. "Knowingly" is the | :25:46. | :25:51. | |
key. He says he didn't know that the money he took out of Keith | :25:52. | :25:54. | |
Dickenson's account had come from Croydon Council. It makes you sound | :25:55. | :26:03. | |
like a grave robber, but in point of fact, I mean - I'd quite happily | :26:04. | :26:07. | |
show you the will - I was his sole beneficiary. He was a soul mate, and | :26:08. | :26:13. | |
we'd had so many good times and so much fun over so many years. You | :26:14. | :26:18. | |
know, I can see no real reason why that money shouldn't have been | :26:19. | :26:22. | |
withdrawn and the fact that it was withdrawn after his death... Well, | :26:23. | :26:26. | |
let me tell you, you know, from the moment he died, the bills started | :26:27. | :26:34. | |
coming in. He says he thought the money in the account was Keith's | :26:35. | :26:37. | |
pension, not his benefits, and he blames the council for the mistake. | :26:38. | :26:41. | |
You can see from the papers here, Croydon Council were aware of | :26:42. | :26:45. | |
Keith's death. I told them to stop paying his benefits, and they had | :26:46. | :26:54. | |
stopped paying some of his benefits. And then there's receiving benefits | :26:55. | :26:58. | |
while he ran a posh pub. He thought an employment agency had told the | :26:59. | :27:03. | |
council. I notified the agency that I no longer needed benefits. They | :27:04. | :27:09. | |
told me that they would then deal with it and that all the benefits I | :27:10. | :27:13. | |
was receiving would stop. Um, that didn't happen. The council's case is | :27:14. | :27:21. | |
straightforward. He moved to Devon, but kept the flat and the payments | :27:22. | :27:32. | |
they were giving him. That's cheeky isn't it? Mr Sussams smiling. You | :27:33. | :27:36. | |
think the matter is in court, it's something quite serious. Fighting | :27:37. | :27:40. | |
Stephen Sussams is starting to get to Andrea. It's been an exhausting | :27:41. | :27:48. | |
day. I've been in the witness box for quite a long time and hammering | :27:49. | :27:52. | |
of questions, but right now what I'd like to do is just go home to my | :27:53. | :27:56. | |
family and curl up. End of a day, yeah. Working behind a till at | :27:57. | :28:02. | |
Tesco's doesn't seem so bad right now. And with both sides convinced | :28:03. | :28:07. | |
they're right, things won't get any easier. | :28:08. | :28:21. | |
HMRC have businessman Julian Stone, and builder Nicholas Harris in | :28:22. | :28:27. | |
custody. They're suspected of using fake invoices to dodge ?600,000 | :28:28. | :28:36. | |
worth of tax. Nicholas Harris has started to talk and he's denying | :28:37. | :28:40. | |
helping Stone to fake invoices. He's been shown the invoices and he says | :28:41. | :28:48. | |
they're not his. They don't look like anything he would produce. He's | :28:49. | :28:51. | |
admitted that he has done some work for our second guy but they've been | :28:52. | :28:55. | |
really small, it's been really small value stuff and he doesn't recognize | :28:56. | :28:58. | |
any of the values we're talking about on those invoices. So it looks | :28:59. | :29:03. | |
as if we could have been right. But that's pretty much where we're at | :29:04. | :29:07. | |
the moment. OK, well if you let me know what happens with the second | :29:08. | :29:12. | |
set of interviews. Yeah. And then we can decide what decisions we want to | :29:13. | :29:15. | |
make about bailing? All right, as soon as I get any updates, I'll let | :29:16. | :29:19. | |
you know, yeah? OK, that's fine. See you later. It takes a lot of work, | :29:20. | :29:24. | |
but in the end the documents show what both men have been up to. Steve | :29:25. | :29:28. | |
Ferguson and his boss are getting the evidence ready for court. Stone | :29:29. | :29:35. | |
has used these invoices, which we suspect are fake, to reduce the | :29:36. | :29:38. | |
amount of VAT which he should have paid us by about 160k, and his | :29:39. | :29:41. | |
company tax liability by about ?270,000, so we're talking, in | :29:42. | :29:50. | |
essence, of about a ?400,000 fraud. ?400,000 sloshing around his | :29:51. | :29:53. | |
business accounts because of his suspected criminal activity - he's | :29:54. | :29:57. | |
got to get rid of that somehow. If I can show you an example here... The | :29:58. | :30:04. | |
documents suggest Stone has been paying Harris, but the cheques tell | :30:05. | :30:10. | |
a different story. According to these cheque stubs, Stone has paid | :30:11. | :30:13. | |
138 cheques to Harris, but when we looked at the cheques you can see | :30:14. | :30:22. | |
it's made out to Stone's mother. So what he's done is laundered the | :30:23. | :30:25. | |
proceeds of his criminal activity through members of his family. Stone | :30:26. | :30:31. | |
and Harris may not have been working together to dodge VAT, but it turns | :30:32. | :30:35. | |
out they were both at it on their own. Harris has been earning | :30:36. | :30:38. | |
hundreds of thousands of pounds and hiding it from the taxman. Mr Harris | :30:39. | :30:47. | |
has not told us about any of this money coming into his business. He's | :30:48. | :30:51. | |
been generating vast amounts of profit for himself by charging his | :30:52. | :30:55. | |
other customers - including Mr Stone - VAT, and then basically putting it | :30:56. | :31:01. | |
in his pocket. They have enough evidence. Stone and Harris will now | :31:02. | :31:12. | |
be charged. This is the latest manifestation of my mid-life crisis, | :31:13. | :31:20. | |
which seems to be going on forever. Stephen Sussams hasn't been letting | :31:21. | :31:22. | |
the trial get him down, and he's found a cheaper replacement for the | :31:23. | :31:27. | |
Bentley. I bought myself a sports car, and it takes me longer to get | :31:28. | :31:31. | |
in and out than it does to do most journeys. But he's been preparing | :31:32. | :31:39. | |
himself for the worst. What is going to happen is going to happen, so you | :31:40. | :31:42. | |
might just as well... Yeah, all right, you give it your best shot, | :31:43. | :31:46. | |
and you put forward how you feel about different things, but that's | :31:47. | :31:50. | |
as much as you can do. You know, you can't do anymore. Today he'll learn | :31:51. | :31:56. | |
if the jury finds him innocent or guilty. It's a big day for all | :31:57. | :32:05. | |
involved. To date, I haven't lost any cases, I've always... I've got a | :32:06. | :32:08. | |
good, um, prosecution success record. But, at the end of the day, | :32:09. | :32:13. | |
it is up to the jury. What will be will be. That makes me panic! THEY | :32:14. | :32:25. | |
LAUGH I hope this isn't the case you lose. It takes the jury six hours to | :32:26. | :32:37. | |
reach a unanimous verdict. Result! I know! Result, my people, result! I | :32:38. | :32:43. | |
know, I know, I know! He's found guilty on all counts and jailed for | :32:44. | :32:50. | |
a year. The judge wasn't having any of it, was he? Absolutely not. He | :32:51. | :32:56. | |
was not having any of it at all. And he's got a previous conviction, so | :32:57. | :32:59. | |
that's all been... Yeah. For dishonesty, as well. Anyway, my | :33:00. | :33:03. | |
part's done - on to the next case. Over to you! Yes, well, I'll add | :33:04. | :33:07. | |
this to my very large case load. How many years has this taken you? Two | :33:08. | :33:12. | |
years? Two and a half years? This case has taken me two and a half | :33:13. | :33:17. | |
years to bring to this point. It just shows how long these cases can | :33:18. | :33:21. | |
take, there's a lot to it. Zoe Neale now gets involved. It's her job to | :33:22. | :33:29. | |
get the stolen money back. Yeah, but I've got a lot of bits in the | :33:30. | :33:33. | |
background, and I am aware of things that I don't think Mr Sussams knows | :33:34. | :33:37. | |
that I know about. The biggest problem is going to be getting some | :33:38. | :33:41. | |
stuff out of Spain. Yeah. That's the big issue. Well, as you can see, | :33:42. | :33:45. | |
Miss Marple is back on to the next case. See you later. Bye. Stephen | :33:46. | :33:55. | |
Sussams is in jail, and Croydon wants to get back the money he | :33:56. | :34:00. | |
stole. There's not much left in England - the pub and Bentley are | :34:01. | :34:03. | |
long gone. But there's a tip-off that Stephen Sussams had another | :34:04. | :34:07. | |
secret life before he went to Devon. I want to find out what was he doing | :34:08. | :34:11. | |
in Spain, and if there's anything there for the council to claim. Is | :34:12. | :34:22. | |
that really the kind of car to transport a disabled person in? I | :34:23. | :34:27. | |
suppose it's ideal, cos its very low to the ground, easy to get in and | :34:28. | :34:33. | |
out of... It's not what you usually see in a disabled bay - a super car | :34:34. | :34:39. | |
with a Blue Badge in the window. There's not much room for a | :34:40. | :34:44. | |
wheelchair, but... No, no. ..enough room for a walking stick. For a | :34:45. | :34:50. | |
walking stick, exactly. I'm just going to go and have a look at that | :34:51. | :34:54. | |
Badge on display. They reckon the Blue Badge is either fake or stolen. | :34:55. | :35:00. | |
When you see Ferraris parked in disabled bays, it does raise | :35:01. | :35:06. | |
suspicion. Time for a quick call to the council. That badge was actually | :35:07. | :35:14. | |
stolen. So now we need to try and figure out a way of trying to get | :35:15. | :35:19. | |
that Badge back. We need to devise a plan as to how to catch him or her. | :35:20. | :35:25. | |
I think our best bet is to find out who the owner of the car is... Ah, | :35:26. | :35:30. | |
there's two policemen. Excuse me! I work for Kensington Chelsea | :35:31. | :35:34. | |
council. That car there's got a stolen Blue Badge. You can do DVLA | :35:35. | :35:39. | |
checks can't you? Find out who the owner is? We're just trying to see | :35:40. | :35:46. | |
what other information we can get. OK, just bear with me a sec. Thank | :35:47. | :35:52. | |
you. The DVLA say the car belongs to a man called Feroz Gadit. The | :35:53. | :35:57. | |
owners' surname matches up to what the number plate is, as well, it's a | :35:58. | :36:01. | |
private plate on it, so... If we stand here he isn't going to come | :36:02. | :36:05. | |
back to his car. No. They need another tow. We'll call in into the | :36:06. | :36:09. | |
pound, but by the time they get someone down to put a ticket on it | :36:10. | :36:15. | |
he may well have come back and gone. They just hope the tow truck gets | :36:16. | :36:17. | |
here first. I'm in Spain because its seems that | :36:18. | :36:38. | |
Stephen Sussams had a secret life here, and I've come to find out what | :36:39. | :36:40. | |
he was doing. Croydon Council lost ?32,000 to | :36:41. | :36:51. | |
Stephen Sussams' fraud, and now they want it back. They'll try to seize | :36:52. | :37:01. | |
any assets they can find. Now, we've been told that he may have lived in | :37:02. | :37:05. | |
the far south of Spain. We got a journalist who lives here to do some | :37:06. | :37:12. | |
digging. Hi. It's Richard, how's things? Fine, thanks, how are you? | :37:13. | :37:20. | |
Yep, I'm all right, thank you very much. So, you've been busy? What | :37:21. | :37:24. | |
have you managed to find out? I managed to find out he did live | :37:25. | :37:29. | |
here. He did have a life here. Some people knew him - not very many. Not | :37:30. | :37:32. | |
many people actually want to talk about other people, they're quite | :37:33. | :37:55. | |
private here. So how serious was he? The Town Hall can tell me if | :37:56. | :38:05. | |
Sussams' life here was official. So this is living here, this is not | :38:06. | :38:11. | |
casual? No, no, no. This is living here. To go to a hospital here, a | :38:12. | :38:14. | |
social security hospital owned by the state, you need to have this. So | :38:15. | :38:19. | |
this is key to a life here, in this town? Si. So this is really | :38:20. | :38:25. | |
important, because this piece of paper proves that Stephen Sussams | :38:26. | :38:28. | |
had a double life. And, actually, the dates are really important | :38:29. | :38:31. | |
because he applied here in Spain three months after he applied for | :38:32. | :38:38. | |
housing benefit back in the UK. So this is the place? This is it, yeah. | :38:39. | :38:47. | |
But Sussams didn't just live here, he had a business. So this was | :38:48. | :38:54. | |
Stephen Sussams' bar. It was, yes. He ran this place. Yes, he did, and | :38:55. | :38:59. | |
according to people he worked here, he was behind the bar. How long was | :39:00. | :39:06. | |
he here then? I think it was about ten months. He was here from May | :39:07. | :39:18. | |
2008 to February 2009. Whilst he's having that life here, he's got this | :39:19. | :39:21. | |
separate life back in the UK. A house, benefits, different friends. | :39:22. | :39:24. | |
Today this bar is owned by someone else. There's nothing here for | :39:25. | :39:29. | |
Croydon Council to seize. Right, where now? Follow the road around. | :39:30. | :39:35. | |
We track down the people who sold him the bar, Sandra Sharpe and John | :39:36. | :39:42. | |
Patemen. Everything looked... Right and correct. Everything down to his | :39:43. | :39:49. | |
Patek Philippe watch, his Mercedes Benz red top, you know. He went to | :39:50. | :39:57. | |
the bank with you, didn't he? Yeah. Drew out the cash. It was all in | :39:58. | :40:03. | |
hard cash and he gave it you and... So we thought well, that's... That's | :40:04. | :40:10. | |
good. 'But this was deal that quickly ran into trouble.' When did | :40:11. | :40:13. | |
things change then? When it was time and we were getting towards when he | :40:14. | :40:17. | |
had to pay his final amount. He said, "I'm not paying you." I went, | :40:18. | :40:21. | |
"Well, OK then, "you're not paying me the money then this is still my | :40:22. | :40:26. | |
bar." Well, basically, in the end, he said no, didn't he? He turned | :40:27. | :40:31. | |
round and said I've worked it out that you owe me money now. So you | :40:32. | :40:35. | |
painted a picture at the beginning when you first met him of Stephen | :40:36. | :40:38. | |
Sussams as a kind of smooth operator. What do you think about | :40:39. | :40:46. | |
him now? Con man. Yeah. Yeah, a professional con man, actually. He | :40:47. | :40:49. | |
is a confidence trickster. And he's good at it. And he's good at it. Con | :40:50. | :40:54. | |
Man. 'The deal became increasingly messy. 'Whatever the truth, the | :40:55. | :41:00. | |
bottom line is Stephen Sussams 'was in business here in Spain while | :41:01. | :41:03. | |
claiming benefits in Croydon.' So, we know about his business, but | :41:04. | :41:09. | |
where did he live? This little track here? Mm-hmm. Up here? Yeah. This is | :41:10. | :41:33. | |
the road? Yeah. You wouldn't even see this, would you? Without | :41:34. | :41:35. | |
somebody helping you, you'd just pass this by? Sussams' secret home | :41:36. | :41:39. | |
is hard to find. We need to get up here. You see this opposite? So this | :41:40. | :41:56. | |
is it here? That's it. So what is this then? Well, this was his house. | :41:57. | :42:06. | |
Did he buy this then? He bought it between the end of 2006 and the | :42:07. | :42:10. | |
beginning of 2007. He'd lived here for between two and a half and three | :42:11. | :42:19. | |
years. But it was trashed recently. 180,000 Euros for a house on a | :42:20. | :42:24. | |
mountain. A council tenant from Croydon with a double life in the | :42:25. | :42:35. | |
Sun. You can see that this was a really beautiful place. The pool is | :42:36. | :42:39. | |
lovely, there's the barbecue area. It's all done to a pretty good | :42:40. | :42:45. | |
standard. 'His neighbours thought he was a wealthy man. What kind of | :42:46. | :42:50. | |
place is this? It's a lovely place to come, cos you can be away from | :42:51. | :42:54. | |
everybody, nobody can see you, you can mix or not mix. So everybody out | :42:55. | :42:58. | |
here, really, came here because you can just be yourself and be in your | :42:59. | :43:04. | |
own little space. 'And everyone here knew Stephen Sussams.' What sort of | :43:05. | :43:08. | |
background did he seem to have? He's bought his own villa, opened up a | :43:09. | :43:13. | |
business, what was his background? I don't know about his background, but | :43:14. | :43:17. | |
I thought he was quite well-to-do. I mean, he had a Mercedes convertible, | :43:18. | :43:20. | |
which was a bit incongruous in the rambla, you know, but I thought he | :43:21. | :43:24. | |
was a man with money who's trying to do something in the town. And if I | :43:25. | :43:29. | |
told you that during that period he was actually having a kind of double | :43:30. | :43:33. | |
life, in the UK he was claiming benefits? That doesn't go with the | :43:34. | :43:39. | |
Mercedes, does it? Not really, I wouldn't have thought that. He | :43:40. | :43:44. | |
didn't look the type that would be. Yeah, he was, he was claiming | :43:45. | :43:47. | |
incapacity benefit, housing benefit... I'm quite surprised that | :43:48. | :43:53. | |
you've said that, actually. Why? Well, I would have thought from the | :43:54. | :43:57. | |
way he dressed and carried himself and everything else he was a man of | :43:58. | :44:00. | |
means. Obviously somebody else's means! There's no doubt that this | :44:01. | :44:04. | |
was Sussams' house. But something clearly went very wrong. I think | :44:05. | :44:10. | |
when he left it, he left virtually everything in there, according to | :44:11. | :44:13. | |
neighbours. And then, somehow or other, somebody got in there and | :44:14. | :44:16. | |
took everything, trashed the whole place But to go and just leave | :44:17. | :44:23. | |
everything in there was a bit weird. This place has now been seized by a | :44:24. | :44:27. | |
Spanish bank. We found his secret mountain hideaway, but there's | :44:28. | :44:28. | |
nothing left for Croydon to recover. Let's go shopping. Yeah, ?75,000... | :44:29. | :45:01. | |
Marcin and Mark have been checking out fast cars, and they've found the | :45:02. | :45:06. | |
make with the stolen Blue Badge. 0-60 in 2.8 seconds, 199 mph. That's | :45:07. | :45:15. | |
all I'm going to say. They got the car, but they didn't get the Blue | :45:16. | :45:19. | |
Badge. The owner spotted what was going on and took drastic action. | :45:20. | :45:24. | |
The removals truck arrived just after 1800 hours. The owner or | :45:25. | :45:30. | |
driver of the vehicle then came back to the vehicle at 1825 hours and | :45:31. | :45:33. | |
jumped up on to the truck, opened the car and removed the stolen | :45:34. | :45:37. | |
disabled badge. It appears to me that he got flustered, got a bit | :45:38. | :45:40. | |
worried, thought, "There's stolen badge on display. "I'll then get rid | :45:41. | :45:48. | |
of that so there's no evidence." Of course, we've got loads of pictures | :45:49. | :45:53. | |
of it on display. And there's something else in those pictures | :45:54. | :45:58. | |
that makes them suspicious. The vehicle did have a zero cost road | :45:59. | :46:02. | |
tax license. Either him or somebody else is getting free road fund | :46:03. | :46:05. | |
license because of a disability. How is he able to jump up on to the back | :46:06. | :46:12. | |
of a removals truck... Exactly. ..if he's so disabled that he can barely | :46:13. | :46:21. | |
walk? Yeah. Mark and Marcin have seen enough. It's down to the police | :46:22. | :46:25. | |
to confront the owner of the car - Feroz Gadit. But when he turns up at | :46:26. | :46:29. | |
the car pound, he manages to talk his way out of being arrested. The | :46:30. | :46:38. | |
sergeant can't believe his nerve. We were waiting for him to arrive, and | :46:39. | :46:42. | |
he arrived there with his mother and another disabled badge which he | :46:43. | :46:44. | |
showed the authorities down there, and as a result of that he managed | :46:45. | :46:49. | |
to convince the staff that that was the badge that should have been in | :46:50. | :46:52. | |
the car. The badge that was displayed was one he actually had | :46:53. | :46:56. | |
found, and in fact it was all a legitimate mistake. So because of | :46:57. | :46:59. | |
all the evidence he may have fooled them with, he was able to get away | :47:00. | :47:04. | |
with it on that occasion. Sergeant Plummer thinks it's time for another | :47:05. | :47:09. | |
chat with Feroz Gadit. Right we've all got our Met vests and things, | :47:10. | :47:16. | |
have we? Brilliant, brilliant. For him to be using this badge when he | :47:17. | :47:19. | |
can quite clearly afford to be paying his way when he parks his | :47:20. | :47:23. | |
car, I think it's a kick in the face, really, for people that want | :47:24. | :47:27. | |
to use that for their legitimate purposes where they are disabled. | :47:28. | :47:30. | |
The best case scenario is going to be that he is there, cos I'd like to | :47:31. | :47:35. | |
see the look on his face when we do knock on his door, and we do go in, | :47:36. | :47:39. | |
and we do search his home. And hopefully he'll realise that this | :47:40. | :47:43. | |
sort of thing is going to have an impact on him and his family. Do you | :47:44. | :47:50. | |
live here at all? I do. You do? What's your name, Sir? Feroz Gadit. | :47:51. | :47:59. | |
Feroz Gadit? Correct. OK. Officers are going to need to speak to you, | :48:00. | :48:03. | |
Feroz, in a few moment, OK? Regarding? What it concerns is a | :48:04. | :48:07. | |
disabled badge that you had in your car. OK. A few months ago, so when | :48:08. | :48:11. | |
the officer comes out he'll speak to you about that and ask you a few | :48:12. | :48:14. | |
questions around that, as well. You're going to be arrested for | :48:15. | :48:17. | |
handling stolen goods, you're also going to be arrested for fraud and | :48:18. | :48:21. | |
misrepresentation OK? You don't have to say anything, but it may harm | :48:22. | :48:24. | |
your defence if you do not mention something when questioned something | :48:25. | :48:27. | |
you later rely on in court, anything you do say may be given in evidence. | :48:28. | :48:31. | |
OK, do you understand? I explained to them the whole scenario, I | :48:32. | :48:34. | |
explained exactly what happened and I explained to them, you know, the, | :48:35. | :48:37. | |
the circumstances in which I actually... I got that er that | :48:38. | :48:41. | |
badge. I'm now going to tell you what's gong to happen next. We've | :48:42. | :48:45. | |
got a warrant here to search your house, so we're going to be | :48:46. | :48:48. | |
searching your premises and the cars. Having a nicked Blue Badge | :48:49. | :48:51. | |
counts as handling stolen goods. It's a serious offence. They think | :48:52. | :49:00. | |
the badge is most likely to be in the Audi on the drive. Got the keys | :49:01. | :49:07. | |
at work, I believe, so I'll have to get keys sent down here, so someone | :49:08. | :49:10. | |
can wait here and wait until the keys come over. How can the car be | :49:11. | :49:15. | |
driven back here if the keys aren't here? So they look for the keys to | :49:16. | :49:23. | |
the Audi, and it doesn't take long. Where's your spare set? Is that a | :49:24. | :49:31. | |
spare set? Yeah. Mr Gadit changes his story. I have got it, that | :49:32. | :49:37. | |
badge. Oh, where is it? I've got it, it's in the car. That's a Badge | :49:38. | :49:49. | |
that's valid until 2014, so that would have been an extra couple of | :49:50. | :49:52. | |
years, practically, of him parking for free We had another look inside | :49:53. | :49:56. | |
it and we found the original one we was looking for, but we've also | :49:57. | :50:08. | |
found another one. OK, right. I'm going to further arrest you now, OK? | :50:09. | :50:12. | |
For being in possession of this, I'm going to further arrest you for | :50:13. | :50:15. | |
handling stolen goods and false representation. And who is this | :50:16. | :50:21. | |
turning up in the Bentley now? He's turning up at speed, he's just | :50:22. | :50:25. | |
pulled up and I believe he may be another member of the family. That's | :50:26. | :50:27. | |
four cars they've got. Your brother's been arrested for being in | :50:28. | :50:32. | |
possession of stolen property. What property? The disabled badge. What | :50:33. | :50:39. | |
disabled badge? He can discuss that with you later. Where is he? He's on | :50:40. | :50:45. | |
his way to the police station. I'm, not going to have any more further | :50:46. | :50:50. | |
to say to you about that for the moment. If you'd like to go and | :50:51. | :50:53. | |
speak to your mother, cos she was quite upset. Why are you filming me? | :50:54. | :51:01. | |
Feroz Gadit is shipped off to the station. I feel very, very pleased | :51:02. | :51:05. | |
with how its gone. Totally, totally pleased. To turn up there and find | :51:06. | :51:09. | |
that badge that he said had gone, to discover a second disabled badge, as | :51:10. | :51:13. | |
well... This man's got no excuse at all, absolutely no excuse. It's very | :51:14. | :51:16. | |
pleasing to have the result that we've got today. Gadit was fined | :51:17. | :51:21. | |
?515 for handling stolen goods, but not charged with possession of the | :51:22. | :51:24. | |
second Blue Badge. Julian Stone was convicted of ?130,000 of tax fraud, | :51:25. | :51:27. | |
and sentenced to 16 months, suspended. Nicholas Harris was found | :51:28. | :51:35. | |
to have fiddled ?59,000 and sentenced to six months. Both men | :51:36. | :51:43. | |
were ordered to repay the cash. My mother-in-law's inside the building, | :51:44. | :51:49. | |
do you know that? Tila Feiner was convicted of misusing a Blue Badge | :51:50. | :51:54. | |
and was fined ?300. But what about Stephen Sussams? He's served six | :51:55. | :52:05. | |
months, and now he's out. Well, this feels a little bit weird, cos the | :52:06. | :52:09. | |
last time I was here I was chasing Stephen Sussams across this car park | :52:10. | :52:13. | |
to try and grab a word with him and talk about the benefits he was | :52:14. | :52:17. | |
claiming. That was a year ago, he's been to jail since then, and now he | :52:18. | :52:21. | |
wants to have a word with me and have a proper sit down chat. So it | :52:22. | :52:26. | |
feels odd, but I'm going to go and meet him. Mr Sussams? Come in, yes. | :52:27. | :52:36. | |
Hi, I'm Richard Bilton, pleased to meet you, how are you? I'm good, | :52:37. | :52:43. | |
come in. Thanks for agreeing to see me This is what happens when you do | :52:44. | :52:47. | |
things properly. Well, in fairness, Mr Sussams, we did try and talk to | :52:48. | :52:52. | |
you properly before, didn't we? No, you didn't. I bear you absolutely no | :52:53. | :52:56. | |
malice or bad feeling whatsoever. In fact when you've finished the | :52:57. | :52:59. | |
interview I'll even make you a cup of coffee. Great, that's very kind | :53:00. | :53:04. | |
of you. Could do with one. I suppose what the viewer might think is you | :53:05. | :53:08. | |
got send down for stealing 20-odd thousand pounds from the public | :53:09. | :53:10. | |
purse, and you were claiming benefits that you weren't entitled | :53:11. | :53:15. | |
to. Do you regret any of that? Do I regret it? Be more specific. Well, | :53:16. | :53:20. | |
you were claiming money that you oughtn't to have had - that's why | :53:21. | :53:24. | |
you went to jail. Yeah, I was claiming money that I shouldn't have | :53:25. | :53:28. | |
had but I wasn't doing it knowingly. Was it my intention to deliberately | :53:29. | :53:31. | |
take money from the public purse, as you say? And the answer to that is, | :53:32. | :53:34. | |
categorically, no. Categorically, no, I did not. The fact that I | :53:35. | :53:38. | |
received monies from the public purse which were paid incorrectly... | :53:39. | :53:42. | |
Did I do that? Yes I did. Did I spend those monies? Yes, I | :53:43. | :53:48. | |
redistributed them, yes, I did. You're an intelligent man. I can't | :53:49. | :53:51. | |
believe that you didn't know that money was a benefit. That's just my | :53:52. | :53:56. | |
opinion, and think that's probably what the jury thought, as well, | :53:57. | :54:01. | |
but... I can have no complaints, because I've said on many occasions, | :54:02. | :54:04. | |
ignorance is no defence... And that's what it was. How come you had | :54:05. | :54:14. | |
this other life in Spain? Well, it wasn't another life, was it? Well, | :54:15. | :54:18. | |
you bought a business, you bought a house. This did overlap with some of | :54:19. | :54:24. | |
your benefit claims. No it doesn't. Your incapacity benefit claim | :54:25. | :54:27. | |
mirrors the time that you had the lease on the bar. It's about the | :54:28. | :54:32. | |
same time. Look, you're talking about something which is five years | :54:33. | :54:36. | |
ago, since when I've had a heart attack, two heart operations and I'm | :54:37. | :54:39. | |
waiting for a third. I can't give you dates. It never seems to be your | :54:40. | :54:45. | |
fault. It wasn't your fault when you were taking from the public purse, | :54:46. | :54:49. | |
it wasn't even your fault when you went to jail. One of the summaries | :54:50. | :54:53. | |
was that you are a smooth talker, you can talk your way out of lots | :54:54. | :54:57. | |
and lots of situations. What would you say to people watching this? | :54:58. | :55:00. | |
What would they understand about you? What should they understand | :55:01. | :55:04. | |
about me? I mean... I would let them make their own mind up. You and I | :55:05. | :55:11. | |
have met now for the first time, we've had another frank exchange but | :55:12. | :55:14. | |
at least we've got to talk properly. If all that you say is true, then | :55:15. | :55:19. | |
you must be feel a very maligned character. Richard, it doesn't | :55:20. | :55:24. | |
matter. Well, it does matter a bit, you went to jail... But hang on a | :55:25. | :55:29. | |
second. Look, you're talking about the past again. The important people | :55:30. | :55:33. | |
in my life, they know me well enough and they know the sort of person | :55:34. | :55:37. | |
that I am. But I can only tell you what I know and as I understand it. | :55:38. | :55:53. | |
Right, thank you. Right, sugar? Well, that was very odd, cos he | :55:54. | :55:57. | |
makes a good case, you know. He a plausible guy, he's articulate. I'm | :55:58. | :56:00. | |
still not sure I believe him, and I think he can't explain Spain away. | :56:01. | :56:04. | |
So I think things are complicated, they're always complicated, but I | :56:05. | :56:07. | |
think at the end of the day Stephen Sussams is a clever bloke and I | :56:08. | :56:11. | |
think he knows what he's doing. And Croydon Council doesn't believe | :56:12. | :56:18. | |
Sussams, either. His conviction for fraud was a breach of his tenancy | :56:19. | :56:24. | |
agreement. They want his flat back. Crime has not paid for Stephen | :56:25. | :56:25. | |
Sussams. Next time in On The Fiddle, how | :56:26. | :56:45. | |
fraudsters exploit a weak system to make benefit claims across Europe... | :56:46. | :56:56. | |
You want to pay it back? Yes, OK. ..and the smugglers who use fake | :56:57. | :56:59. | |
boarding passes to buy millions of duty free fags. They want to ban me | :57:00. | :57:04. | |
from telephone boxes for five years. They must think I'm Micky Bin Laden, | :57:05. | :57:06. | |
not Micky Pitt. | :57:07. | :57:11. |