Too Young to Die Crime Scenes Scotland: Forensics Squad

and you could see her hands which had been bound by cable-tie.

I believe in Scotland we've been able to deliver a unique service.

To identify suspects is one thing, and then to prove

people are guilty of a crime is something completely different.

Although you see a lot of dead people, you treat

everyone as an individual and with respect and with humanity.

Forensic scientists - they are silent witnesses,

and they are the eyes and ears of law enforcement.

19th century forensic pioneer Edmund Locard said,

"Every contact leaves a trace."

This shoe is responsible for this mark.

You can see the fingerprints in the corner there.

They could be when the note was getting pushed over to the cashier.

Today the forensic teams catch more killers than ever.

We reveal exactly how

in never seen before detail with images from real murder scenes.

Scotland's forensic scientists are world class.

In murder cases their success rate is over 90%.

Ironically, Scotland has Western Europe's

worst murder rate per capita.

But this small country has developed a unique forensic service.

Probably if you go back to 2005/2006,

whenever we started looking at forensic science,

we realised that we had a very fragmented service.

We had scenes of crime officers

who worked for eight different Scottish police forces.

We had four separate laboratories

and we had a single Scottish fingerprint service.

Now, whenever we looked at that as a whole,

we realised that these services were not integrated in any way.

One of the visions that I had was a crime scene to court service

where you could actually bring all those agencies together.

We now do have that.

I don't know anywhere else in the world -

and I've looked at it all over the world - where you have that,

you know, that partnership that's so from the beginning.

This series reveals exactly what happens - from crime scene to court.

Beginning with two of Scotland's most notorious murder cases.

It was just a horrific murder all round.

Every aspect of it just defies belief.

I think they were hoping to find a large pool of blood

and this would all become very obvious. But it didn't.

Angelika Kluk - a pretty 23-year-old languages student from Poland -

found work and lodgings at St Patrick's Roman Catholic church

in Anderston, Glasgow. She lived adjacent to the church,

which should have been a safe haven for a young woman far from home.

But one day, with all her belongings left behind, Angelika disappeared.

Angelika was last seen on Sunday 24th of September

within the grounds at the church in William Street.

She's left there without her handbag, any money or a jacket.

We are very worried about it. It's totally out of character.

She's a very responsible person.

As concerns grew,

police swung into action, searching in and around the church.

But they found nothing.

Five days after Angelika disappeared,

the Senior Investigating Officer

brought in the elite Specialist Search Team.

They conducted a methodical search inside the church,

discovering a carpet tiny fractions out of line.

Hidden below was a small wooden hatch.

What initially was a missing person investigation then became a

murder investigation with huge, huge public interest throughout the UK.

Right away you're saying to yourself, this is not a standard murder

enquiry that we normally deal with.

From the word go, it's a category-A murder, it's a whodunnit.

A major forensic operation swung into action.

Very quickly, as an experienced Senior Investigating Officer,

I was thinking about the complexities,

because you don't just think about the evidence.

You think about what other things are going to come up from a defence point of view.

The body would be identified as Angelika Kluk.

But early in the investigation that was far from obvious.

What I could see from above the hatch,

it was quite clear there was a body there - appeared to be female.

A person was underneath there with a tarpaulin over the top of them,

like a bag of rubbish. Total disrespect for human life.

You could see plastic covering over the body

and you could see her hands which had been bound by cable-tie.

But being mindful of removing that without disturbing it

or disturbing evidence, we needed the best.

So we called in a team. The key person was Carol Weston.

I felt very strongly from the beginning that Angelika's body

had to be sampled in situ and that she shouldn't be moved

to the mortuary prior to any evidence being recovered.

So I wanted to actually go under the floorboards down beside the body

so I could get the maximum amount of forensic evidence.

On the advice of the forensic science team,

I decided to leave the remains in the deposition site.

Now for me, that was a big, big decision,

but it was the correct decision.

The advice I got was, if we moved Angelika Kluk, we could have - and

I would say we probably would have - lost important forensic evidence.

Not only was the hatch very small but it was actually

bisected by a beam which was a supporting beam to the floor.

The body was directly under this beam.

So a lot of discussion took place about - can we cut the beam?

Can we cut the floorboards?

And for various reasons, we couldn't do that.

So the approach was, I was going to have to squeeze down this small

opening and actually get down beside the body to do the examination.

The first thing we had to do was to remove the items that were

actually obscuring her body, which was a tarpaulin

and a black bin bag with items in it.

So the first thing I did was pass these things up through

the hatch to the crime scene manager and then that exposed Angelika's

clothing and body to allow me to do the rest of my examination.

At first we were worried because it smelt

so strongly of decomposing matter, we were worried there was perhaps

other body parts or something else down there biological.

But it turned out it was very heavily blood-stained clothing -

a towel and also what in our opinion was the murder weapon

used to stab Angelika, so, a knife.

It was apparent she'd been stabbed multiple times

and it was apparent she was bleeding from the head.

She had been gagged and she had tape tied round her mouth

so it was obviously a very violent death.

Standard forensic practices weren't enough to gather evidence.

Because what was rare and exceptionally challenging in this

murder was the body had been hidden under floorboards in a cold, dark,

cramped space, making collecting samples extremely difficult.

But there was no other choice.

She was clothed. However, her clothing was in disarray.

Her fly to her trouser was open and her upper clothing had all

been pushed upwards above her breasts, exposing her abdomen

and partially exposing her breasts, and there was obvious damage

to her top in that she'd been stabbed through her clothing.

Eventually we did take all her clothing off in situ.

The reason for that was to preserve anything that was on the clothing.

Once Angelika had been stripped,

then we could look at actually moving the body.

I thought the whole examination would perhaps take about an hour

and I was really shocked when I came out from under the floorboards

and realised just how long I'd actually been there.

Three-and-a-half hours.

The earth beneath Angelika had to be laid out in grids, removed and

sieved in case there was something significant buried in the soil.

Key exhibits were logged.

The work of our scientists in biology, chemistry,

mark enhancement and scene examination was really

brought to the fore throughout this whole investigation.

Once we were satisfied that the scientists had retrieved all

forensic evidence, arrangements were made to remove the

human remains from the deposition site.

At that point, the pathologist came and took intimate samples to

recover any body fluids which would prove any sexual activity.

I witnessed the swabs being taken and then left

because I knew that this was just really the beginning of what

was going to be a massive operation.

At the end, when you're putting a body in a body bag,

that sometimes is the point where it actually hits you.

You've finished your examination.

You've stopped thinking so much just as a scientist

and I think that's maybe when it starts to become a bit real.

You're always very aware that you're dealing with somebody's daughter,

somebody's sister, somebody's brother, whatever.

It's never just a piece of evidence. It's always a person.

Meantime, the police investigation continued under the intense glare

of the world's media and the worried public.

Suspects had to be identified and eliminated.

We had to look at people that were close to her, people that were

in the area. To look at all that, we had to eliminate people.

There were various interesting, shall we say,

witnesses that appeared, that had been at the scene,

had been involved with the church, who knew Angelika.

So there was very salacious media reporting on that

and I was aware, early days, that there would be.

It was shocking to be taken aside and to be told that

they didn't know who had killed her and that

until they had worked out who had killed her,

everybody was a suspect, up to and including the parish priest.

I never actually met the priest but as I started reading the paper, like

everybody else, you start to get this picture of the priest and he was

coming out himself and saying about he was having relationships, etc.

Father Nugent was a very unusual priest.

I mean, someone once said about him that he

had an excess of charity but a lack of discretion.

He probably didn't have the filter that was required.

The investigation was very unusual

with the number of suspects in the frame.

But there was one other suspect.

The last person to be seen with Angelika, the church handyman,

known to everyone as Patrick McLaughlin.

He quickly became the police's prime suspect.

But hard evidence was still needed to crack the case.

We had to be very, very careful until we had the DNA evidence.

Because we were all of the opinion this was a sexually motivated

murder, the first thing we wanted to do was to establish if there was

any seminal fluid inside or on Angelika's body and clothing.

Seminal fluid is a fantastic source of DNA and that would give us

a sort of starter.

So we went into the laboratory and the swabs that the

pathologist had taken were all processed.

And within a few hours, we knew that Angelika Kluk had semen inside her

body and that the amount and the distribution of the semen

suggested that she had had sexual intercourse round about the time

that she had been murdered.

I knew at that point that I was going to get a DNA profile

that would give a name to the police,

hopefully to start off an investigation.

So, as well as all the initial emotions, you're also feeling relief

and just really motivated now to move forward

and to get your DNA profile and to get this case moving.

The DNA's actually contained within the sperm cells themselves.

By assessing the amount of seminal fluid via the sperm cell count,

you're assessing the amount of activity

and, to an extent, the time since ejaculation actually occurred,

since the semen was deposited in the vagina.

In just over two decades,

DNA profiling has transformed forensic science.

Now the DNA robot produces a profile in only ten hours.

But this is not the end of the process.

The Scottish DNA database is in the £23 million

forensic super-campus in Dundee.

I will send a profile up to them electronically.

They will then compare it against all the profiles they hold -

which is about 280,000 -

and then they will notify me back if there's been a hit or not.

It's the moment scientists live for or dread.

In this circumstance, there wasn't.

It is your worst nightmare when you do a lot of work,

you get a profile and then you've got no name.

After all the gruelling work, attention to detail, long hours,

patience and hopes, the result was a bitter disappointment for Carol.

What you've got to remember is whoever's done this is, at this

point, still at large and still has the ability to do it again.

The murder was in Scotland. The prime suspect Scottish.

A hit on the database held in England seemed remote.

Carol had an agonising overnight wait.

Back at the church, progress was equally frustrating

for Michael Young and the team.

In the early stages, we couldn't quite figure out

where she'd been murdered.

I was going round with my inspector and another police officer,

and my inspector had a huge bunch of keys.

And they were searching all these rooms,

hoping to find some clear indication of where she'd been murdered.

And I think they were hoping to find a large pool of blood

and this would all become very obvious. But it didn't.

One room was particularly important.

Only a few short days before,

church handyman Patrick McLaughlin lived there.

He disappeared, leaving tools

and materials that proved to be incriminating.

He had good reason to run.

But before he did, he showed how cold and calculating he was.

He spoke to the police officer and then very quickly realised,

the heat's on here, he could get found out and he left.

That's the coward he is, he left.

Three days after Angelika's body was found, progress was being made.

But Carol still needed that crucial match to the DNA profile.

It didn't take long to get a response from the English database.

Within about half an hour we got a name back,

and the name was Peter Tobin.

They told me that Peter Tobin was a convicted sex offender,

and they told me that he was on the database

because he'd been convicted of a sexually motivated crime.

This is Peter Tobin.

Hampshire Police wish to talk to him after two school girls were

sexually assaulted and imprisoned in a flat in Havant.

In 1993, Tobin drugged and raped two 13-year-old girls in Hampshire.

He abandoned the flat,

leaving the gas on and the terrified girls inside.

In 1994, he was sentenced to 14 years at Winchester Crown Court

and served nine.

After his release, he returned to Scotland.

In 2005, after attacking a 24-year-old woman with

a knife in his Paisley flat, he fled.

His next known victim was at St Patrick's Church.

That left only one place to be thoroughly investigated -

the garage.

We went into the garage

because that was the last place she'd been seen alive,

and we wanted to establish had she been assaulted or murdered

within the garage.

So primarily we're looking for blood and a blood pattern.

It wasn't obvious to anyone that there was anything in there.

But I remember Carol finding a very, very tiny blood spot within

the garage and she put a highlighter pen round it.

And then she found another one and another one.

And I remember standing back and seeing the fine spray

within the garage, which wasn't visible at first because of

the dark red sandstone brick, but when it was highlighted

you could see the fine spray of blood that had gone up

onto the walls and on to the ceiling etc.

What we're looking for is small blood spots that would tell us

that someone had been struck or stabbed or assaulted within

the vicinity of the garage, and ultimately that's what we found.

Small blood spots - which we term impact spatter blood spots

- on the concrete floor.

These kind of blood spots, the size of them, these are produced

when someone is beaten, or struck, kicked, that kind of thing.

So as soon as we found these small blood spots

we knew that we'd found the right place.

It took four days to painstakingly examine

and log every item in the garage.

Then another vital discovery was made.

Angelika was last seen alive helping to paint a garden shed.

He had moved the garden shed, put it outside,

a small garden shed where the attack had started,

was dismantled a few days after her body was discovered.

Peter Tobin was definitely forensically aware.

He, with the assistance of others, moved that shed and rebuilt it

and painted it.

That is the length that he went to, to conceal his act.

To murder a girl in the manner in which he did and then

transport her body from the garage through a chapel, put her underneath

a hatch, without leaving any trace, was quite difficult, I would imagine.

And I always say that he probably intended to move her and that is

a temporary place he's put her and his intention was to take her away.

We'll never know that. Only Peter Tobin knows that.

It's a chilling thought that you have someone that's so cool,

calculated and went to such great lengths

concealing Angelika Kluk under the floorboards,

and tidying up after it.

Forensic evidence was gathering against Peter Tobin, including

a blood-soaked wooden table leg police found in the church grounds.

Also piling up in the case against him

was forensic fingerprint evidence.

Prints found on the black bin bag

and tarpaulin at the murder scene were cross checked with

the Ident-1 database which holds 10 million prints.

The tiniest details were examined and it was a big result.

The prints matched Peter Tobin.

We had the knife which, although the knife had been cleaned,

it had Angelika's blood on it.

We were of the opinion that that was the murder weapon,

as in, that had been used to stab her.

If you clean a knife very well, you tend to still leave trace amounts

of blood and what we had here was the crevice,

where the handle and the knife blade actually joined together,

there was a significant amount of blood.

Several days later we were given a table leg, a wooden table leg.

Although it had been outside for a good couple of weeks,

and in the rain,

we managed to get trace amounts of blood from this table leg.

And we were of the opinion that this had been used to strike her.

So we could obtain a DNA profile that matched Angelika Kluk.

While evidence stacked up against Tobin,

a nationwide manhunt was launched to track him down.

Then a lucky breakthrough.

He had checked into a London hospital, again under a false name,

but an alert nurse recognised his picture and contacted the police.

Within days of Angelika's body being found, Tobin was arrested.

Then even more damning forensic evidence surfaced.

He had on a T-shirt, a white T-shirt, which was

stained on the lower front and that staining proved to be a mixture

of Peter Tobin's semen and seminal material matching Angelika Kluk.

Tobin was taken back to Scotland to stand trial for the horrific

rape and murder of Angelika Kluk.

She was a young girl. She was over here in a strange country.

She was living her life.

She was trying to better herself and this is what's happened to her.

In the same week Peter Tobin was arrested for the murder

of Angelika Kluk, another high profile murder trial had just begun.

When a random, heartless murder shocked Glasgow,

it was a killing that desperately needed to be solved

because of a potentially explosive racial dimension to the crime.

15-year-old Kriss Donald was kidnapped in broad daylight,

tortured and murdered.

The Clyde walkway, used by cyclists and joggers,

was where his body was found.

The body was lying at the foot of a grassy slope.

He was partially clothed and had extensive burn injuries.

He looked very small. In fact, he was a child at that time.

He was 15.

And it was a very, very bleak sight.

Everyone was very quiet and respectful.

Pauline and forensic chemist Ruth Ramage

were both called out that day in 2004.

The deceased was lying over there.

And on the edge of the logs there was what looked like spots of blood.

I think when you and the other biologists came up

and looked at that area...

Yeah, there was more to be seen in amongst the logs.

We're just approaching the logs now.

So, on and in amongst all these logs, there was blood staining,

drop spots of blood and a larger pool of blood just on the dirt track.

The pathologist said 15-year-old Kriss Donald was stabbed

13 times in unusual circumstances.

When someone's stabbed the natural instinct,

if they can, usually is to raise their hands and arms

to try and defend themselves, and they often sustain

cuts and stab wounds to their hands and arms, and Kriss had none.

And in the absence of any other explanation in Kriss's case,

it suggested that it was likely he'd actually been restrained

by one or more individuals whilst he was being stabbed.

And in between two of the logs there was charring on the ground as well.

Yes. And even the burnt fabric on the logs

and around the logs - it was a smell of petrol as well.

Yes. That was the assault site.

And then with the charred pieces of fabric that had led on

to the grass from here, and down towards where he was found.

His tracksuit trousers had totally been consumed in the fire

apart from the waistband.

So that tied in with the pieces of fabric lying around the area.

When accelerants are used, you can be set alight when you're alive

and not inhale any soot or carbon monoxide.

And the circumstances suggested that he was probably set alight

whilst he was still alive.

What we are ultimately trying to do is give answers.

Now that can be answers for the public and the justice system.

But it can also be answers for the family themselves

and those that are left behind.

Tyre marks at the murder scene could have come from a vehicle that

was involved in the crime.

Ruth took tyre casts with the faint hope a vehicle would

eventually be found with matching treads.

After that, Pauline struggled to take skin samples,

trying to find DNA from the killer.

But the skin was very badly charred and no skin cells were usable.

Nothing was going well in this investigation.

But police had a witness.

When Kriss was attacked and kidnapped by five Asian men

his friend Jamie Wallace was with him.

He said, "I'm only 15, I'm only 15," and they said,

"Do you know what pain is? You're next."

They were saying about me, I was next.

Then after that I saw him getting dragged into the car,

head first, and the two doors slamming.

And they sat on him and they started punching into him.

The prime suspect was a thug,

notorious and feared in his own community.

He appeared to be quite a significant individual within

the Pollokshields area.

Very into saving face.

His reputation appeared to be very precious to him.

And we believe there was an incident the night before the abduction where

he was in the city centre of Glasgow where he certainly lost some face.

Some local boys from the Pollokshields area would have

appeared to have made fun of him, ridiculed him in some way.

He was unable to do anything about it at that time

and he would appear to have been incandescent with rage

about this and sought to take some sort of action to re-assert himself.

Kriss was kidnapped in broad daylight

and forced to endure what must have been a nightmarish journey.

It would appear to be that the intention was to murder him.

They would have been going to take him somewhere to do that.

I mean, this young boy, he wouldn't know what's happening to him.

He would be absolutely petrified by what's going on.

Five guys there who are very agitated.

They've just abducted a young boy.

You've got a leader who's looking to save face,

who's looking to regain his reputation, he doesn't appear

to care to what lengths he needs to go to do that.

It was just a horrific murder all round.

It was just, every aspect of it just defies belief.

Only three days after the murder - a major breakthrough.

Today a silver Mercedes was found in the West End of Glasgow,

in Granby Lane, and they believe it could be

the car that was used in the abduction of Kriss Donald.

The vehicle was a ball of flame

which the fire service heavily hosed.

This usually destroys evidence but forensics expert Ruth Ramage

discovered something distinctive and incriminating.

I could see there were three different patterns present,

and these patterns corresponded to the patterns at the locus.

It's quite unusual to have different patterns of tyres on a vehicle

and therefore I began to suspect that this might be a car that

was involved with the crime.

It was a dramatic breakthrough, and after more forensic examination

the car generated masses of evidence.

I then started to look inside the vehicle.

I could see the remains of green melted plastic

from a petrol container.

In addition to that,

I found the remains of a left Nike training shoe.

At the murder locus, Kriss Donald was wearing a right Nike training

shoe but the left shoe was not found to be present.

The shoe in the car was quite burnt

but you were still able to see the sole pattern.

So all we were able to say, it was a similar type of shoe with

a similar sole pattern.

Under no circumstances did we ever say that they formed one pair.

It's looking at all the little strands of evidence.

Though the car and paintwork were badly damaged,

Ruth's keen eye found tiny blood spots on the surface.

And I was called at that point to sample the blood

and it was found to match Kriss.

Of particular interest was a rolled up jacket - a leather jacket -

the pocket linings and the general lining of the jacket was quite

well preserved because it had been slightly folded over. Despite having

been set alight and subsequently hosed down by the fire brigade,

there was enough area that could be targeted for the collection of DNA.

Essentially we were looking for DNA that might match

the regular wearer of this jacket.

We analysed this sample and got a male profile

which was searched against the DNA database,

and we come up with a match - Imran Shahid.

On the journey with Shahid and the others,

Kriss heard hundreds of calls discussing his fate.

His killers destroyed their phones, thinking they'd outwit the police.

But phone calls meant phone records.

And their own community gave the police their numbers.

The records looked confusing so the multi-media unit created

a graphic map revealing every call made.

These guys were on their phones all the time.

They were constantly texting, phoning, folk contacting them

between 3.00 in the afternoon when Kriss was abducted

through until 8.00 at night when the car was set on fire.

And there was a period just around 3.00 in the afternoon,

which was around the time of the abduction,

20-25 minutes, no activity on the phones at all.

Calls were traced to Strathclyde Park outside Glasgow

where the Mercedes parked briefly.

Then the phones separated.

One of the gang had to get home because he was a convicted criminal

- his leg tagged for curfew.

Imran Shahid and the others set out on a 180 mile round trip

to Dundee with Kriss still jammed in the footwell.

It's not known why they took this journey.

And they returned to Glasgow under the cover of darkness.

There was another period of time after 7.00 at night,

another 20-25 minutes, no activity at all on the phones.

Now, the assessment is - and I believe it to be true -

that's the time the murder took place.

Five Asian men were being hunted for the kidnapping

and brutal murder of a white boy.

Adding to the growing tension in the area

was the BNP's arrival on the streets of Glasgow.

I know that the British National Party were up in Scotland

trying to drum up support,

and they were really using the Kriss Donald one as a catalyst for that.

We're not blaming, you know, the Muslim community.

We're blaming primarily the police and the thugs, the thugs involved.

Community leaders, they were very much on-side

because they knew that five evil men had murdered a young

15-year-old boy and it just could not be allowed to go unpunished.

And they helped us every way they could to identify them.

What we did was, we got two of the guys very quickly.

Daanish Zahid got 22 years - the first man in Scotland to

be convicted for a racially motivated killing.

Zahid Mohammed, the tagged criminal who left Strathclyde Park,

got five years.

But three other suspects had escaped to Pakistan

which has no extradition treaty with the UK.

There was always this fear that - have they managed to evade justice?

Have they managed to get away and get to a safe haven?

And I think that's what their thought process was.

They wouldn't need to be brought to justice for the horrific

crime they'd committed.

We had to submit a case to Crown in Scotland to say look,

this is the case against these five individuals.

And they were, they were happy with that.

But we then had to kind of redo the whole thing again

and prove then to the Pakistan authorities that look,

we're not wanting them on suspicion, we're not wanting them

because we don't think there's a case to answer.

Although negotiations went well,

the possibility of finding the fugitives seemed remote.

An agonising 16 months later,

they were finally captured in a village in rural Pakistan.

They tried to escape - jumped out from the building

and escaped to the crops.

And then my team and I chased them

and arrested them after a long struggle.

Because there's no extradition treaty between the UK

and Pakistan, Britain's first Muslim MP, Mohammad Sarwar,

used his influence to get the suspects repatriated.

I managed to convince the Interior Minister

and the President that it is very crucial,

not only for the family of Kriss Donald,

it is crucial for the race relations in Britain

to ensure that these accused are brought back to the United Kingdom.

The three killers were locked in a holding cell in Pakistan.

Meantime in Scotland,

Robbie Allan waited a further long, nerve-jangling three months

for a decision from the Pakistani government.

We actually managed to secure a one-off extradition with Pakistan,

which meant that a team of us went out to Pakistan

and brought the three of them back.

It was right that they sat in a court in Scotland

and faced their accusers.

Intensive forensic evidence against Imran Shahid,

his brother Zeeshan Shahid and the third suspect,

Mohammed Faisal Mushtaq, now had to stand up in court.

When you're in court it's quite intense.

You have to be well familiar with the case

and be prepared to fully discuss all aspects that you've examined.

You piece together all the different bits of evidence that you have

and in this case it was the tyre impressions,

the petrol can in the car, the training shoe within the car

and the other training shoe worn by the deceased.

And you make a final conclusion using all those strands of evidence.

Counsel for defence was the formidable lawyer,

Donald Findlay, QC.

DNA and its significance is grossly overstated by the prosecuting

authorities and it's certainly over-valued by the public at large,

who of course, in fairness to them,

get their impression from television programmes such as CSI

where Grissom or Horatio Caine will come along and say,

ah there's DNA, crime solved. And somebody's locked up,

serving life imprisonment, always in 47 minutes and eight seconds.

It doesn't work that way.

At the end of the day, my job and the job of my scientists is to

make sure we provide the best scientific evidence to that court

and present it in the best way, and that's what we focus on.

When we got that to court, we were really presenting a strong case -

to both trials because obviously we presented it twice -

once when the two of them, two of them went up and

then once when the three of them came back from Pakistan.

Imran Shahid - 25 years minimum.

The judge told him, "You are a thug and a bully with a sadistic

"nature and you are not fit to be at liberty in a civilised society."

CROWD SHOUT

Miscarriage of justice!

Faisal Mushtaq also hearing the anger of the crowd.

INDISTINCT SHOUTS

Scumbag!

Finally, Zeeshan Shahid. No remorse here.

Animal!

Absolutely no remorse at all.

No empathy at all with the fact it's a 15-year-old boy who

they had never known, they randomly picked off the street

and murdered in the most horrific way. Quite chilling.

No matter where they came from or who they were,

they killed this young boy.

And I think that's how Glasgow saw it.

Justice at last for Kriss's family.

A mother and sister who have waited two-and-a-half years

to see his killers jailed for life.

Justice has been done. Thank you. It is over.

Tobin had been arrested for Angelika Kluk's murder

while Kriss Donald's killers were on trial.

Now he'd be tried.

Angelika's sister, Aneta, wanted justice.

The moment of truth had arrived.

Carol Weston and her evidence would be on trial too.

Part of the process in preparing for court for the defence

and the prosecution is a meeting called a precognition.

We are impartial scientists so we can chat to either side

and just get across what our evidence means to them.

And I do remember very clearly Mr Findlay saying to me,

"Is this what you're going to say in court?"

And I said, "Yes, it is." And he said,

"Well in that case, I'm going to have a big problem with you."

And he did.

The trial system that we have, whether you like it or not,

is an adversarial system and it is for the Crown to overcome every

legitimate hurdle that we put in the way of them proving their case.

Thereby we hope that,

if somebody is convicted, the conviction is justified.

I don't know anybody that enjoys going to court.

To me, court's a wee bit like going to the dentist.

They generally like to get the scene examiners in as one

of the first witnesses to lay out a scene for the jury and for the court,

and to tell you exactly what was there when you got there,

because we're first in to the crime scene.

Increasingly, evidence is presented to juries in a virtual form

to help depict a scene.

But this doesn't reduce the need for accurate forensic expertise.

Sometimes they'll attack your opinion very strongly

and that can be, it can be very hard, but if you know you're right,

you know your science is right, you stand there and you defend it.

And if that takes two-and-a-half days, that's what you do.

But it's not only lawyers that can be intimidating.

The first day I came out of Edinburgh High Court,

there was a whole bank of photographers and reporters outside.

They proceeded to chase me down the Royal Mile -

which is not a situation that we're used to dealing with.

I couldn't quite understand why they would want to do that -

and I think that's when it struck me that this was a big deal

and that people were actually very, very interested in this case.

The next day was my cross-examination.

It's someone who's questioning your ability, questioning

your integrity, questioning your professionalism, questioning

your job and, to be honest, trying to find the flaw in your work.

And erm, it's very, very hard.

Donald Findlay QC is renowned as one of Britain's finest,

toughest defence lawyers.

He knows exactly how to ask searching questions

and grill witnesses.

It was a lot of pressure. And the second day, I did go home

and as soon as I opened the front door, that was me in tears.

Then you've got to pick yourself back up and go and do it again.

It's not personal. It's strictly business.

So you compromised the evidence?

If somebody comes to give evidence, if they are particularly

a professional witness, then they must expect that their evidence

will be tested and if it is right, it will pass that test.

I don't set out to upset anybody.

But I will scrutinise what they say and will scrutinise it,

in some cases, in great depth.

But it's not designed to distress anybody.

It's the evidence that's being tested. It's not the witness.

To be called biased and to be called a liar,

it's very, very hard to take, but it's a court setting

and you should be able to rebut that quite successfully.

My part in the law is to say to the Crown,

if you're going to prove guilt, you've got to prove it beyond

a reasonable doubt and we'll do our best to make sure that you do.

I can live with that, whatever the outcome.

Sentencing Tobin to life imprisonment, Lord Menzies said...

The Angelika Kluk murder investigation - big, big result for

forensic science and DNA - a bigger result the fact that we put this

individual, who we then found out was a serial killer, behind bars.

Every murder leaves a lasting legacy -

especially one as brutal and cold-blooded as this.

This is me back at St Patrick's,

back at the church for pretty much the first time since

Angelika's body was found and since I carried out my crime scene work.

I wasn't looking forward to coming back

and it's actually quite emotional.

It's a lot harder than I thought it would be.

It's very unusual for a scientist to re-visit a scene.

It's quite harrowing coming back, now knowing the full facts,

knowing exactly what happened to Angelika, knowing that she

suffered a brutal death and knowing what she must have gone through.

Slight bit of closure maybe as well, now coming back,

knowing that the forensic work that we did has actually meant

that Peter Tobin has been caught for this

and that he's not going to be able to do anything like this again.

So, mixed emotions really.

There were calls for the church to be either permanently closed

and to have its use turned into something else or to be demolished.

Many sensible people felt that the crime was so horrific

and of such magnitude that the only fitting response would be to

literally send in bulldozers and destroy this building.

This church was kept closed for the best part of a year after

the Angelika Kluk case because it was, it was just too

raw for people to come back here, knowing exactly what had happened.

The Archbishop was always adamant that as far as he was

concerned this parish would reopen. The church would be preserved.

I think probably the focus was going to be on the parish being

reopened rather than the church.

The awfulness of her having been attacked and killed

and buried here is almost impossible to imagine.

So no amount of rational reflection takes that pain away.

But the fact remains that probably if he hadn't been caught here

he would have killed again.

I was very shocked when I saw Peter Tobin sitting in the dock

with his purple jumper and his purple shirt on.

To me, he just looked like a little man that you would

help across the street.

But I think the shots of him coming out of court

after his conviction painted a very different picture.

But Peter Tobin was being investigated for other murders.

I suspected by the modus operandi with Angelika Kluk

that he had committed other crimes.

And I think that's when it sort of clicked that, yeah,

this is a serial killer we're dealing with.

I can't help you. I've never met her.

As I say, I've never met her.

Peter Tobin is today serving a life sentence

in Her Majesty's Prison, Edinburgh.

He fakes health scares - the latest a suspected heart attack

in August 2012, and he was rushed to hospital.

Next day, he was back in jail.

The cost to the National Health Service for his bogus claims

is reported to be around £15,000.

At the same prison in 2011,

the killer of 15-year-old Kriss Donald, Imran Shahid,

was slashed with a razor for bullying younger convicts for money.

He was moved to Kilmarnock Prison in Ayrshire in February 2013

but continued his bullying.

15 fellow inmates beat him up with weight-lifting bars

in the prison gym in retribution.

At his trial, Judge Lord Uist described Shahid as a

thug and a bully,

not fit to be at liberty in a civilised society.

Shahid entered the Koestler Awards.

The charitable trust aims to give inmates a positive goal

and to provide an outlet for creative energies

and emotions, where cash prizes are awarded to winning entries.

Shahid wrote...

"When I come a knocking

"No debt goes amiss

"Your crime is living

"Your punishment, death

"I'm the hater of man

"The bringer of death

"Hell itself trembles

"50 levels of wrath."

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