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This programme contains scenes which some viewers may find disturbing. | 0:00:02 | 0:00:06 | |
This is a bullet wound in Dominique's head. | 0:00:10 | 0:00:13 | |
I, Kenneth Williams, am responsible for this. | 0:00:14 | 0:00:18 | |
My goal was to make sure that we, uh, | 0:00:27 | 0:00:29 | |
did justice in Arkansas in a way that reflected well on the state. | 0:00:29 | 0:00:34 | |
This is theatre. | 0:00:34 | 0:00:36 | |
Political theatre. | 0:00:38 | 0:00:39 | |
The problem is, Midazolam has a history of not working. | 0:00:49 | 0:00:54 | |
It does not dull the pain, and that's where you've seen these gasping, | 0:00:54 | 0:00:59 | |
coughing, horrible deaths where it took two hours to die. | 0:00:59 | 0:01:03 | |
Last Thursday night, Ledell Lee | 0:01:09 | 0:01:10 | |
became the first Arkansas death row inmate | 0:01:10 | 0:01:13 | |
put to death in 12 years. | 0:01:13 | 0:01:15 | |
Then on Monday, the first | 0:01:15 | 0:01:17 | |
double execution in this country since 2000. | 0:01:17 | 0:01:19 | |
I see Jason McGehee as a monster. | 0:01:27 | 0:01:31 | |
This is my boy and I don't want him to die. | 0:01:33 | 0:01:36 | |
ANNOUNCER: Well, welcome back once again to Cummins prison | 0:02:00 | 0:02:03 | |
after three executions in a week, | 0:02:03 | 0:02:05 | |
eight scheduled executions over the past ten days. | 0:02:05 | 0:02:08 | |
Uh, it's an incredible story. | 0:02:08 | 0:02:10 | |
The State of Arkansas uses lethal injection, uh, | 0:02:10 | 0:02:12 | |
to perform its executions and one of the drugs in that lethal injection | 0:02:12 | 0:02:17 | |
was about to expire and it appears that the State of Arkansas is unable, | 0:02:17 | 0:02:21 | |
uh, to acquire any more of that drug. | 0:02:21 | 0:02:24 | |
So, if these executions were to be carried out, | 0:02:24 | 0:02:26 | |
they all had to be done before the end of the month of April. | 0:02:26 | 0:02:29 | |
Judgment day arrives today. | 0:02:29 | 0:02:31 | |
We're keeping our eye on that, | 0:02:31 | 0:02:33 | |
and we'll bring you the latest throughout the night from here at | 0:02:33 | 0:02:35 | |
Cummins prison. Beth, let's go back to you in Little Rock. | 0:02:35 | 0:02:38 | |
-ANNOUNCER: -Governor Asa Hutchinson does have the power to grant executive clemency | 0:02:52 | 0:02:56 | |
for any or all of these inmates. | 0:02:56 | 0:02:58 | |
He has said he will maintain that option until the very end, with the | 0:02:58 | 0:03:01 | |
victims' families close to his heart. | 0:03:01 | 0:03:03 | |
Today is the clemency hearing for the parole board to go ahead and | 0:03:07 | 0:03:12 | |
execute the person that murdered my son... | 0:03:12 | 0:03:15 | |
..is what today is. | 0:03:15 | 0:03:17 | |
It's justice for my son, is what it is. | 0:03:17 | 0:03:20 | |
I walk in this room and I see a 50/50 chance... | 0:03:24 | 0:03:27 | |
..that he will be put down and then I see 50% that he will spend | 0:03:28 | 0:03:31 | |
the rest of his life in jail. | 0:03:31 | 0:03:33 | |
What would that be like for you and your family if he's let off the | 0:03:35 | 0:03:39 | |
-death penalty? -I will feel that John has been forgotten. | 0:03:39 | 0:03:42 | |
What is very difficult on the victims' families is that these | 0:03:48 | 0:03:52 | |
cases continue to be reviewed. | 0:03:52 | 0:03:53 | |
The inmates have a right to ask for clemency and they have to go before | 0:03:53 | 0:03:57 | |
the parole board and have to express themselves and go through the trauma | 0:03:57 | 0:04:01 | |
again, but the victims' families - that I talk to - say if it's | 0:04:01 | 0:04:05 | |
the law of the land and a jury metes out that punishment, uh, | 0:04:05 | 0:04:09 | |
then that should be carried out. | 0:04:09 | 0:04:11 | |
I remember my grandma telling me that John was gone, and I told her, | 0:04:12 | 0:04:15 | |
I said, '"I don't know what you're talking about. | 0:04:15 | 0:04:17 | |
"What are you talking about?" | 0:04:17 | 0:04:19 | |
And she said, "Baby, they've found him." | 0:04:19 | 0:04:21 | |
I said, "Oh, well, good, John's going to come home," you know. | 0:04:21 | 0:04:23 | |
-Yeah. -She said, "No, baby, they've found him in the woods." | 0:04:23 | 0:04:26 | |
And then she said, "He's gone, he went to be with Jesus." | 0:04:26 | 0:04:29 | |
So, I literally jumped out of the car and just fell. | 0:04:29 | 0:04:31 | |
And she was sobbing, my little brother was sobbing, | 0:04:32 | 0:04:37 | |
and I cried so much that I got sick. | 0:04:37 | 0:04:40 | |
I didn't understand why someone would do that to my brother because | 0:04:40 | 0:04:43 | |
he had a heart of gold, he would help anybody. | 0:04:43 | 0:04:45 | |
Anybody. | 0:04:45 | 0:04:47 | |
It's something that happened to all of us. | 0:04:48 | 0:04:51 | |
We have to make sure that his life and his death was not in vain. | 0:04:51 | 0:04:56 | |
And I mean, and that's... | 0:04:56 | 0:04:57 | |
..that's all we can do. | 0:04:58 | 0:05:00 | |
But... You OK, Dad? | 0:05:02 | 0:05:03 | |
I can remember so many things from whenever I was six. | 0:05:06 | 0:05:09 | |
I remember the day that they found John. | 0:05:09 | 0:05:12 | |
I remember my mom just broke down crying, | 0:05:12 | 0:05:14 | |
she held me, and I'm just trying to figure out why for the longest time, | 0:05:14 | 0:05:17 | |
for about two weeks I was asking my mom, I'm like, you know, "Where is John?" | 0:05:17 | 0:05:20 | |
You know, "Is John going to come home?" | 0:05:20 | 0:05:22 | |
Is... you know, "Where's John?" Like, "I miss John, where is he?" | 0:05:22 | 0:05:25 | |
You know, I'm only six years old. | 0:05:25 | 0:05:27 | |
SHE SNIFFLES | 0:05:29 | 0:05:31 | |
You're OK, sis. | 0:05:32 | 0:05:34 | |
Hopefully, today will give us some... Give us some closure. | 0:05:36 | 0:05:39 | |
This case was about Jason McGehee's direction and participation in | 0:05:48 | 0:05:52 | |
Harrison, Arkansas in 1996, | 0:05:52 | 0:05:54 | |
in an hour's long torture and murder of a 15-year-old boy. | 0:05:54 | 0:05:57 | |
The victim in this case was John Melbourne Junior. | 0:05:58 | 0:06:01 | |
He was a young boy who was described as eager to please other people. | 0:06:01 | 0:06:05 | |
He was a special education student and, like a lot of young people, | 0:06:05 | 0:06:10 | |
impressionable. I don't think you can make this decision that you're | 0:06:10 | 0:06:14 | |
asked to make - which is very weighty - unless you have | 0:06:14 | 0:06:17 | |
all the facts. You should know what it is that you're being asked to forgive here. | 0:06:17 | 0:06:21 | |
He tried to make the best life that he possibly could with his, | 0:06:30 | 0:06:33 | |
his handicaps. | 0:06:33 | 0:06:35 | |
It took him longer to learn. | 0:06:36 | 0:06:39 | |
Other kids would be picking on him and stuff, calling him stupid and stuff. | 0:06:39 | 0:06:43 | |
And he'd get frustrated and aggravated with it all. | 0:06:44 | 0:06:48 | |
So, he would, he would skip school. | 0:06:49 | 0:06:51 | |
Back then, in the 1990s, all the young kids would hang out at the square. | 0:06:52 | 0:06:56 | |
He started hanging out with this gang because he wanted acceptance. | 0:06:58 | 0:07:04 | |
Knowing John, he thought that he could trust them and that they were | 0:07:04 | 0:07:10 | |
his friends. | 0:07:10 | 0:07:12 | |
Jason McGehee, Ben McFarland and Chris Epps, | 0:07:13 | 0:07:16 | |
as well as a couple of others, were involved in a string of thefts. | 0:07:16 | 0:07:20 | |
Jason was 20, he led the group, he was in charge. | 0:07:21 | 0:07:26 | |
Among the things they had taken were some blank cheques and they were | 0:07:29 | 0:07:32 | |
encouraging John to use those blank cheques, to pass them | 0:07:32 | 0:07:36 | |
and then get some cash in addition to that. | 0:07:36 | 0:07:38 | |
John went to a shoe shop and he went in and tried to get a pair of shoes. | 0:07:39 | 0:07:45 | |
They let him go ahead and pass the bad cheque and they gave him the | 0:07:45 | 0:07:49 | |
shoes, which was when we became involved. | 0:07:49 | 0:07:51 | |
He wound up telling us what he knew about the group that had been | 0:07:51 | 0:07:55 | |
committing the thefts that we had been investigating and passing the | 0:07:55 | 0:07:59 | |
-cheques. -They called me up from work. | 0:07:59 | 0:08:01 | |
I went down to the police station and the detective told me what happened, | 0:08:01 | 0:08:05 | |
and that he was going to release John into my custody and let me take | 0:08:05 | 0:08:08 | |
him home. | 0:08:08 | 0:08:10 | |
I told John to stay home... | 0:08:10 | 0:08:11 | |
..um, not to go anywhere. | 0:08:12 | 0:08:15 | |
I'd be back home in a little while from work and uh, | 0:08:15 | 0:08:19 | |
we would talk about this. | 0:08:19 | 0:08:20 | |
When I got home, he was gone. | 0:08:24 | 0:08:25 | |
This house is where Jason and his friends would hang out, | 0:08:33 | 0:08:37 | |
this was their crash house. | 0:08:37 | 0:08:39 | |
I can only imagine my brother walking down this hill... | 0:08:41 | 0:08:44 | |
..and then walking down them steps and up on that porch... | 0:08:45 | 0:08:47 | |
..and not realising what's about to happen. | 0:08:49 | 0:08:51 | |
Jason McGehee thought that John... | 0:08:54 | 0:08:57 | |
..snitched. | 0:08:59 | 0:09:01 | |
John knocked on the door, | 0:09:01 | 0:09:03 | |
Christopher Epps punched my brother in the face and grabbed him and | 0:09:03 | 0:09:06 | |
pulled him into the house. | 0:09:06 | 0:09:08 | |
CAMERA CLICKS | 0:09:08 | 0:09:09 | |
And that's when they all started beating on John. | 0:09:09 | 0:09:12 | |
One of the things that does stick out in my mind is that Chris Epps | 0:09:17 | 0:09:21 | |
would repeatedly kick John with some type of kung fu kick. | 0:09:21 | 0:09:24 | |
That was really only a pre-cursor to the beating that was given to John | 0:09:26 | 0:09:31 | |
at the abandoned house, um, near Omaha. | 0:09:31 | 0:09:35 | |
They had John bound, so that he couldn't escape, | 0:09:38 | 0:09:41 | |
and they drove him to the house at Omaha. | 0:09:41 | 0:09:44 | |
At one point, one of the participants asked John how it felt | 0:09:44 | 0:09:48 | |
to know that he was going to die. | 0:09:48 | 0:09:50 | |
So, it became apparent that the group had some type of plan in mind. | 0:09:50 | 0:09:55 | |
At the house, there is a lengthy beating process that takes place, | 0:10:17 | 0:10:22 | |
that particularly Chris Epps is involved in, as well as McFarland | 0:10:22 | 0:10:27 | |
and Jason McGehee. | 0:10:27 | 0:10:28 | |
His arms and legs were broken... | 0:10:31 | 0:10:32 | |
..he had broken ribs, and they broke all his bones in his face and his | 0:10:34 | 0:10:39 | |
skull was fractured in many places. | 0:10:39 | 0:10:41 | |
Until they finally brought him this way. | 0:10:44 | 0:10:46 | |
I'm sure he was scared. | 0:10:49 | 0:10:51 | |
At some point, the group made a decision to execute John, | 0:10:56 | 0:11:00 | |
they were going to kill him and the way they were going to do that was | 0:11:00 | 0:11:03 | |
to take him out into the woods, some distance from the abandoned house. | 0:11:03 | 0:11:07 | |
Jason McGehee, | 0:11:09 | 0:11:10 | |
Ben McFarland and Chris Epps put John on his knees and they take | 0:11:10 | 0:11:14 | |
turns strangling him with a piece of electrical cord. | 0:11:14 | 0:11:17 | |
One person would hold the cord, one end in each hand, with the cord | 0:11:19 | 0:11:23 | |
around John's neck from behind, | 0:11:23 | 0:11:25 | |
and they would put their knee into his upper spine or the back of his | 0:11:25 | 0:11:28 | |
neck and push forward until they could hear him choking and gurgling. | 0:11:28 | 0:11:32 | |
It is ultimately Ben McFarland who tells me in an interview that he was | 0:11:36 | 0:11:40 | |
the one who was actively strangling John Melbourne when he loses his life. | 0:11:40 | 0:11:46 | |
I've gotta deal with this, losing my son. | 0:11:50 | 0:11:54 | |
I live with this every day. | 0:11:54 | 0:11:56 | |
There ain't a holiday that don't go by... | 0:11:58 | 0:12:00 | |
..that I don't cry. | 0:12:01 | 0:12:03 | |
To do something like this to a child, a 15-year-old child, | 0:12:07 | 0:12:12 | |
think if it was your child, how would you all feel? | 0:12:12 | 0:12:15 | |
The victims of crimes, I've been noticing, don't get justice, | 0:12:17 | 0:12:23 | |
but I promised John that I would get justice for him, I would be his | 0:12:23 | 0:12:27 | |
voice and I will be his voice till I die. | 0:12:27 | 0:12:30 | |
After that, | 0:12:36 | 0:12:38 | |
basically, our family fell apart. | 0:12:38 | 0:12:39 | |
My parents got a divorce, us kids were separated. | 0:12:40 | 0:12:43 | |
And just, to be honest, everything went to hell. | 0:12:45 | 0:12:47 | |
It was a living hell after that. | 0:12:49 | 0:12:50 | |
During the course of the interviews, it became quickly apparent that | 0:12:55 | 0:12:59 | |
there was one person who was leading the group and that was Jason McGehee. | 0:12:59 | 0:13:03 | |
This event happened primarily because of McGehee's involvement and | 0:13:03 | 0:13:08 | |
depending on whose statement you care to give more credence to, um, | 0:13:08 | 0:13:11 | |
one person was more responsible than the others, | 0:13:11 | 0:13:14 | |
but the common denominator in all of the statements was that McGehee | 0:13:14 | 0:13:19 | |
orchestrated everything and McGehee was in charge of what happened that night. | 0:13:19 | 0:13:23 | |
Jason McGehee received the death sentence, | 0:13:25 | 0:13:28 | |
Chris Epps was sentenced to life without the possibility of parole. | 0:13:28 | 0:13:31 | |
I occasionally check on him and make sure he's still in there. | 0:13:31 | 0:13:34 | |
Uh, Ben McFarland was also given life without parole. | 0:13:34 | 0:13:38 | |
That was later overturned by the Supreme Court because of his age at | 0:13:38 | 0:13:41 | |
the time. He took a plea deal and agreed to take the maximum sentence, | 0:13:41 | 0:13:45 | |
which was 40 years. That makes him eligible for parole in 2025. | 0:13:45 | 0:13:50 | |
In my opinion, did Jason McGehee receive a fair sentence for | 0:13:51 | 0:13:55 | |
what happened? Yes. | 0:13:55 | 0:13:57 | |
Do you think it's right that the person who actually took John's life | 0:13:57 | 0:14:02 | |
could be out of prison, and someone that didn't actually take John's | 0:14:02 | 0:14:06 | |
life, could be put to death? | 0:14:06 | 0:14:08 | |
Do I think that's right? | 0:14:09 | 0:14:10 | |
I think that... | 0:14:13 | 0:14:14 | |
..I am not the person that had to make that decision. | 0:14:16 | 0:14:18 | |
-You did good. -Thank you. | 0:14:31 | 0:14:32 | |
-How did it go? -It was emotional. | 0:14:34 | 0:14:35 | |
I'm not sure. | 0:14:35 | 0:14:37 | |
I-I think they'll really think it over, um, | 0:14:37 | 0:14:42 | |
I'm not sure. | 0:14:42 | 0:14:44 | |
Arkansas is just really, um, a good Christian state. | 0:14:52 | 0:14:56 | |
We have a Christian governor in our state, which is wonderful. | 0:14:57 | 0:15:00 | |
Governor Hutchinson is a conservative governor. | 0:15:02 | 0:15:04 | |
He was elected in 2014 and, you know, I can honestly say that I | 0:15:04 | 0:15:09 | |
voted for him. And he's doing an exceptional job. | 0:15:09 | 0:15:12 | |
He's very pro-life. | 0:15:14 | 0:15:16 | |
We have a march for life every year, against abortion, | 0:15:16 | 0:15:19 | |
and he's always there. | 0:15:19 | 0:15:21 | |
I think he's a really good Christian honest man, | 0:15:22 | 0:15:25 | |
and he's trying to do good for our state. | 0:15:25 | 0:15:27 | |
How can you be a Christian and kill someone? | 0:15:29 | 0:15:32 | |
You're pleasing one part of the Bible Belt, but you see what I'm saying? | 0:15:32 | 0:15:36 | |
People that believe in justice as the Bible says it, | 0:15:36 | 0:15:39 | |
but they don't ever think about the other part of Christianity, | 0:15:39 | 0:15:42 | |
about how you're supposed to love your neighbour and, you know, give | 0:15:42 | 0:15:46 | |
people forgiveness and all that kind of stuff. | 0:15:46 | 0:15:48 | |
We do not rape rapists and say that is just. | 0:15:54 | 0:15:59 | |
We do not steal from thieves and say it is just. | 0:15:59 | 0:16:03 | |
We do not torch the homes of arsonists and say it is just. | 0:16:03 | 0:16:07 | |
However, we somehow have the notion that it is morally justifiable to | 0:16:07 | 0:16:12 | |
kill in pre-meditated and deliberate fashion - | 0:16:12 | 0:16:14 | |
that's the legal definition of murder - | 0:16:14 | 0:16:16 | |
people who have killed, | 0:16:16 | 0:16:18 | |
and we say that is morally justifiable. | 0:16:18 | 0:16:21 | |
That is nonsense. | 0:16:21 | 0:16:23 | |
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all people are | 0:16:25 | 0:16:32 | |
-created equal. -Yes, sir. | 0:16:32 | 0:16:34 | |
And they are endowed by their creator with inalienable | 0:16:34 | 0:16:41 | |
rights, and among these are life, | 0:16:41 | 0:16:47 | |
that's the first one. | 0:16:47 | 0:16:51 | |
-The empire is not the giver of life. -That's right. | 0:16:51 | 0:16:54 | |
God does. | 0:16:56 | 0:16:58 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:17:00 | 0:17:02 | |
This is about politics... | 0:17:02 | 0:17:03 | |
..it's about politics... | 0:17:05 | 0:17:07 | |
..and you can quote me on this, come on. | 0:17:08 | 0:17:11 | |
You are going to kill them because the drugs are expiring? | 0:17:12 | 0:17:17 | |
This is theatre. | 0:17:19 | 0:17:20 | |
Political theatre, so that people can say, "We killed people | 0:17:22 | 0:17:28 | |
"y'all don't like." | 0:17:28 | 0:17:30 | |
That is not justice any time. | 0:17:32 | 0:17:34 | |
It's a lynching. | 0:17:35 | 0:17:37 | |
Jesus' work was dangerous work, if you challenged Herod in his palace, | 0:17:38 | 0:17:43 | |
that's dangerous work. | 0:17:43 | 0:17:46 | |
If you challenge the governor, that's dangerous work, | 0:17:46 | 0:17:49 | |
if his name is Pontius Pilate, or the name of your governor here, | 0:17:49 | 0:17:53 | |
that's dangerous work. | 0:17:53 | 0:17:55 | |
If you challenge the powers that think they have the right to decide | 0:17:55 | 0:18:00 | |
over life and death, and who will die and who will live, | 0:18:00 | 0:18:04 | |
-whether that was a fair trial or... -Yeah. | 0:18:04 | 0:18:06 | |
..whether the death will be too painful, it doesn't really matter. | 0:18:06 | 0:18:09 | |
The one for blood lust is the one with power and that's the one who | 0:18:09 | 0:18:13 | |
wants to make the decision. If you challenge that, that's dangerous work. | 0:18:13 | 0:18:18 | |
-Yeah. -The world in which we live is a bad world, | 0:18:18 | 0:18:21 | |
but Jesus can make it right. | 0:18:21 | 0:18:22 | |
CHEERING | 0:18:22 | 0:18:24 | |
Some lawmakers are calling for a Pulaski County judge to resign, | 0:18:27 | 0:18:30 | |
after he took part in a protest on Friday. | 0:18:30 | 0:18:32 | |
Judge Wendell Griffen has become controversial after he went to the | 0:18:32 | 0:18:36 | |
Governor's Mansion to protest. | 0:18:36 | 0:18:38 | |
Judge Griffen publicly protested capital punishment. | 0:18:38 | 0:18:41 | |
He's currently not allowed to hear cases pertaining to the | 0:18:41 | 0:18:44 | |
death penalty or execution protocols. | 0:18:44 | 0:18:46 | |
The death penalty is just, | 0:18:58 | 0:19:00 | |
it's good against evil. | 0:19:00 | 0:19:02 | |
I see Jason McGehee... | 0:19:03 | 0:19:05 | |
..as a predator. | 0:19:07 | 0:19:09 | |
I see Jason McGehee as a monster. | 0:19:09 | 0:19:12 | |
If the clemency is not granted, will you be at the execution? | 0:19:14 | 0:19:18 | |
I will. | 0:19:18 | 0:19:20 | |
I will watch him. I will watch him. | 0:19:20 | 0:19:24 | |
McGehee was there to see my brother take his last breath, | 0:19:25 | 0:19:30 | |
I'm going to be there to see him - McGehee - take HIS last breath. | 0:19:30 | 0:19:34 | |
It's their choice. | 0:19:37 | 0:19:39 | |
They, they want to watch him be | 0:19:39 | 0:19:41 | |
executed, then that's, that's on them. | 0:19:41 | 0:19:45 | |
I don't. | 0:19:45 | 0:19:47 | |
I don't want to see another person die. | 0:19:47 | 0:19:49 | |
For a long time, I was for capital punishment, until I started doing a | 0:19:54 | 0:19:57 | |
lot of soul-searching on my own. | 0:19:57 | 0:19:59 | |
I have come to the conclusion to that it's not going to benefit me | 0:20:01 | 0:20:05 | |
in the end. | 0:20:05 | 0:20:06 | |
I don't want to see anyone else suffer... | 0:20:06 | 0:20:09 | |
..as my family has. | 0:20:10 | 0:20:11 | |
My heart aches for his family. | 0:20:18 | 0:20:21 | |
It's heartbreaking to think of that... | 0:20:24 | 0:20:26 | |
..to know that it looms over your head. | 0:20:27 | 0:20:29 | |
I can't imagine. | 0:20:30 | 0:20:32 | |
This was Jason's baby picture, right after he was born. | 0:20:36 | 0:20:40 | |
I was really glad that he was a boy. | 0:20:41 | 0:20:44 | |
All the rest of my kids is girls, they're all girls. | 0:20:44 | 0:20:48 | |
He was my only boy. | 0:20:48 | 0:20:49 | |
Um...this picture here and everything, | 0:20:51 | 0:20:56 | |
he was with me in my pick-up. | 0:20:56 | 0:20:58 | |
He's like anybody else, um, any kid growing up. | 0:21:00 | 0:21:05 | |
He got with the wrong crowd. | 0:21:06 | 0:21:07 | |
My family was Confederate - that's uh, | 0:21:10 | 0:21:14 | |
General Jackson with his troops out in the forest. | 0:21:14 | 0:21:19 | |
This here is Robert E Lee. | 0:21:19 | 0:21:21 | |
Jason done them all by hand, he's a very good artist. | 0:21:22 | 0:21:26 | |
He made that for... He handmade that. | 0:21:33 | 0:21:35 | |
A person that is distorted | 0:21:37 | 0:21:41 | |
and angry at the world and everything like that, | 0:21:41 | 0:21:44 | |
couldn't make anything as beautiful as this. | 0:21:44 | 0:21:47 | |
I feel sorry for John's family and everything like that, | 0:21:54 | 0:21:58 | |
and I wish there was something I could do about it or reverse everything. | 0:21:58 | 0:22:02 | |
But this is my boy, | 0:22:02 | 0:22:04 | |
and, um, I don't want him to die. | 0:22:04 | 0:22:08 | |
This is my garden here. | 0:22:14 | 0:22:15 | |
I'm building it up and everything here. | 0:22:16 | 0:22:19 | |
I'll take these old tyres and fill them full of dirt until I get a wall. | 0:22:19 | 0:22:23 | |
I've got two more rows, I've got this row and another row. | 0:22:23 | 0:22:26 | |
Then I'm putting loads of dirt in here and raise everything up for a | 0:22:26 | 0:22:31 | |
raised garden and everything. | 0:22:31 | 0:22:33 | |
It'll work out pretty good and it don't cost me really that much, uh, | 0:22:33 | 0:22:39 | |
the price of dirt and that's about it. | 0:22:39 | 0:22:41 | |
And when Jason was here, he helped me a lot. | 0:22:43 | 0:22:47 | |
He likes, he likes flowers, he liked trees, bushes, gardening, um, | 0:22:47 | 0:22:52 | |
he likes the same thing as I do. | 0:22:52 | 0:22:55 | |
He's been incarcerated for a long time. | 0:23:03 | 0:23:05 | |
He don't go outside, he's in a box all the time. | 0:23:05 | 0:23:09 | |
You know, whenever I go down there, | 0:23:12 | 0:23:14 | |
he's like a little puppy, cos he's very grateful somebody comes down to | 0:23:14 | 0:23:19 | |
see him and we talk and talk and talk, | 0:23:19 | 0:23:22 | |
and I wish there was something that I could do for him or bring him or | 0:23:22 | 0:23:26 | |
something like that. But, uh, there's not too much I can do. | 0:23:26 | 0:23:30 | |
The clemency hearing is supposed to give a valuation to see if they can | 0:23:46 | 0:23:50 | |
take Jason off death row. | 0:23:50 | 0:23:52 | |
I'm anxious about it, I want him to start looking forward... | 0:23:53 | 0:23:58 | |
..to a life besides that prison. | 0:23:59 | 0:24:01 | |
If they get him off death row, maybe we can get him off the rest of it | 0:24:01 | 0:24:06 | |
and everything for what, he's spent 19, 20 years down there. | 0:24:06 | 0:24:09 | |
He's... For something he didn't even do, and, um, | 0:24:09 | 0:24:14 | |
I'd like to see him out. | 0:24:14 | 0:24:16 | |
We are here today in the matter of Jason McGehee, who is serving a | 0:24:30 | 0:24:35 | |
sentence of death. And Mr McGehee is, | 0:24:35 | 0:24:38 | |
in fact, requesting life without parole. | 0:24:38 | 0:24:41 | |
Good morning, Chairman, and members of the board. | 0:24:47 | 0:24:49 | |
This is Jason, I'm John Williams, um, | 0:24:49 | 0:24:51 | |
and we appreciate the opportunity to appear before you today to make our | 0:24:51 | 0:24:55 | |
case for clemency. You, as the parole board, are in the unique and | 0:24:55 | 0:24:59 | |
really awesome position of doing something that no court is able to do, | 0:24:59 | 0:25:02 | |
and that's to look at Jason McGehee as a whole person, and despite his | 0:25:02 | 0:25:06 | |
offence, to say that there is value to his life and that the state | 0:25:06 | 0:25:10 | |
should not take it. | 0:25:10 | 0:25:11 | |
First, I would like to address the disproportionality in sentences, uh, | 0:25:11 | 0:25:15 | |
between Jason and the primary co-defendants in this case, uh, | 0:25:15 | 0:25:19 | |
Ben McFarland and Chris Epps. | 0:25:19 | 0:25:21 | |
This was a group action through and through. | 0:25:21 | 0:25:25 | |
No-one disputes that Ben, | 0:25:25 | 0:25:27 | |
Chris and Jason all participated in John's beating. | 0:25:27 | 0:25:31 | |
No-one disputes that each of them was present at John's death, | 0:25:31 | 0:25:34 | |
and no-one disputes that it was Ben who actually killed John. | 0:25:34 | 0:25:37 | |
But Chris now has a life without parole sentence and Ben will have | 0:25:39 | 0:25:43 | |
the opportunity to come before you in 2025 and request parole. | 0:25:43 | 0:25:48 | |
We don't begrudge Ben that, | 0:25:48 | 0:25:51 | |
but the difference between parole and death in this circumstance is | 0:25:51 | 0:25:54 | |
too great a difference. The second point - and I think this is perhaps | 0:25:54 | 0:25:59 | |
the most important one, uh, Jason has shown after his incarceration, uh, | 0:25:59 | 0:26:05 | |
that he has been rehabilitated. | 0:26:05 | 0:26:06 | |
He's been back there for 19 years and in those 19 years he has received | 0:26:06 | 0:26:11 | |
only one disciplinary infraction, which was for covering a light. | 0:26:11 | 0:26:14 | |
He's never been violent, he's never bothered anyone. | 0:26:14 | 0:26:18 | |
Ray Hobbs is here, the former director of the department and, uh, | 0:26:18 | 0:26:22 | |
he's going to tell you a little bit more about how remarkable that is. | 0:26:22 | 0:26:25 | |
-Good morning. -ALL: Good morning. | 0:26:25 | 0:26:27 | |
I believe in the death penalty, I do. | 0:26:28 | 0:26:32 | |
Justice, justice should include mercy, redemption, | 0:26:32 | 0:26:38 | |
forgiveness and now | 0:26:38 | 0:26:40 | |
if you take all those into factor and you look at Jason... | 0:26:40 | 0:26:45 | |
..with those factors, I think you would have to come to a conclusion, | 0:26:46 | 0:26:50 | |
he has learnt his lesson. | 0:26:50 | 0:26:51 | |
If you can get up 19 years in a row and not have a... | 0:26:52 | 0:26:56 | |
..bad day with staff or other inmates, that's pretty remarkable. | 0:26:57 | 0:27:03 | |
I mean, I have not, in my 40 years, seen a file that clean. | 0:27:03 | 0:27:08 | |
Yes, it would be my recommendation | 0:27:09 | 0:27:11 | |
that this board consider Jason for clemency. | 0:27:11 | 0:27:14 | |
I think he has a lot to still offer that he can give to others, | 0:27:14 | 0:27:20 | |
if his life is spared. | 0:27:20 | 0:27:22 | |
The short time I knew John, he was always a friend. | 0:27:27 | 0:27:29 | |
I never wanted John to die. | 0:27:29 | 0:27:31 | |
I regret my involvement in that whole night. | 0:27:31 | 0:27:34 | |
I wish I could change what happened. | 0:27:34 | 0:27:35 | |
John deserved to live, none of this should have happened. | 0:27:35 | 0:27:38 | |
All my co-defendants, except Chris Epps, get the chance | 0:27:39 | 0:27:43 | |
to be out there, including Ben, and become better people than we were | 0:27:43 | 0:27:47 | |
that night, as out-of-control kids. | 0:27:47 | 0:27:49 | |
Maybe they can make up for our actions a little bit but none of us | 0:27:49 | 0:27:52 | |
can take it back, none of us can | 0:27:52 | 0:27:54 | |
take the pain away from John's family. | 0:27:54 | 0:27:57 | |
I wish I could make my involvement up to them, but that's not possible. | 0:27:57 | 0:28:00 | |
I'm sorry for my involvement. I know they can't, | 0:28:00 | 0:28:04 | |
but I wish they could accept my apology. | 0:28:04 | 0:28:06 | |
I also know this is a hard position that this board is in deciding life | 0:28:06 | 0:28:11 | |
and death, and I'm sorry you're in the position because of me. | 0:28:11 | 0:28:14 | |
Thank you for listening to me and thank you for your time. | 0:28:14 | 0:28:18 | |
On a personal note, uh, | 0:28:18 | 0:28:20 | |
I've known Jason for a year and a half, since I was assigned to his case. | 0:28:20 | 0:28:23 | |
I visit him often, I've gotten to know him. | 0:28:23 | 0:28:26 | |
He's my friend. | 0:28:26 | 0:28:27 | |
He's a good human being, no matter what other people say about him | 0:28:29 | 0:28:33 | |
later today, and his story is a testament to how a life can be rehabilitated and | 0:28:33 | 0:28:37 | |
redeemed and executing him would just be the waste of a life of a | 0:28:37 | 0:28:41 | |
person who has a lot of good left to give to this world. | 0:28:41 | 0:28:44 | |
So, I would ask the board to recommend clemency. | 0:28:44 | 0:28:47 | |
-Thank you. -Thank you very much. | 0:28:47 | 0:28:48 | |
This is my brother... | 0:29:12 | 0:29:14 | |
-..when he went to go and visit his brother. -Josh. | 0:29:15 | 0:29:18 | |
Josh. That was the last picture his mom had of her son. | 0:29:18 | 0:29:23 | |
SHE SNIFFLES | 0:29:23 | 0:29:24 | |
This is all of us together. | 0:29:26 | 0:29:28 | |
We were pretty happy then. | 0:29:31 | 0:29:33 | |
-That's Clessie... -Yeah. | 0:29:35 | 0:29:37 | |
-..and that's me. -Is that the last family picture that you have? | 0:29:37 | 0:29:40 | |
-Yeah. -OK. | 0:29:40 | 0:29:42 | |
Yep. | 0:29:42 | 0:29:43 | |
He was our protector. | 0:29:44 | 0:29:46 | |
There's times where I will sit there and just talk to him, | 0:29:47 | 0:29:52 | |
like this interview, I didn't know if I should do it, | 0:29:52 | 0:29:54 | |
but I knew that John would want me to get his story out... | 0:29:54 | 0:29:58 | |
..and I don't think John would want him to be executed. | 0:29:59 | 0:30:02 | |
Really? | 0:30:02 | 0:30:03 | |
I don't think he would. | 0:30:05 | 0:30:06 | |
I really don't. | 0:30:06 | 0:30:08 | |
You are very different from your sister in the death penalty, | 0:30:13 | 0:30:18 | |
-in your views. -Yes. | 0:30:18 | 0:30:19 | |
-Yes. -What do you think needs to happen? | 0:30:19 | 0:30:21 | |
I feel that Jason McGehee needs... needs the death penalty. | 0:30:21 | 0:30:25 | |
He chose to take a life and he has to pay for what he did. | 0:30:25 | 0:30:29 | |
It killed me knowing that... | 0:30:32 | 0:30:35 | |
..my brother had to experience this, because he was such.... | 0:30:36 | 0:30:41 | |
He was a good boy, he was a good brother. | 0:30:41 | 0:30:45 | |
He didn't deserve that. | 0:30:45 | 0:30:47 | |
SHE SNIFFLES | 0:30:48 | 0:30:50 | |
I was for the death penalty for a long time. | 0:30:56 | 0:30:59 | |
Once I forgave him, that's when I... | 0:30:59 | 0:31:02 | |
..I was released from that prison. | 0:31:04 | 0:31:05 | |
So, hopefully... | 0:31:06 | 0:31:08 | |
..my sister can get... Reach that point too. | 0:31:09 | 0:31:12 | |
Um, um, I don't know. I can forgive a lot... | 0:31:18 | 0:31:22 | |
-..it's just he, he has to pay for what he's done. -But... | 0:31:24 | 0:31:28 | |
-You can't just... -Something that... -..use that excuse though. -..severe. | 0:31:28 | 0:31:32 | |
I know, I get what you're saying. | 0:31:32 | 0:31:34 | |
You know, the severity of that situation. It's... It has to, in my opinion, it has to be done. | 0:31:34 | 0:31:41 | |
It's, you know... | 0:31:41 | 0:31:43 | |
-OK, so what if...? -An eye for an eye, that's my view. | 0:31:43 | 0:31:45 | |
OK, so what if they come back and say, "You know what, we're just going to go | 0:31:45 | 0:31:49 | |
"ahead and just let him..." Life with, uh, life without parole. | 0:31:49 | 0:31:52 | |
Are we good with that? | 0:31:52 | 0:31:54 | |
-No, I wouldn't. -Why? -Because, for one, he'll be living off of us once again. | 0:31:54 | 0:31:59 | |
The same with all the other people that were involved, | 0:31:59 | 0:32:01 | |
-and we...like, during our childhood, during everything... -I know. | 0:32:01 | 0:32:05 | |
-..the crap that we went through. -I know that. | 0:32:05 | 0:32:06 | |
And we struggled, and they couldn't. | 0:32:06 | 0:32:08 | |
-They have a roof over their head, they had food in their stomach... -I know what you mean. | 0:32:08 | 0:32:12 | |
..while we had to starve. No. | 0:32:12 | 0:32:13 | |
But it would also mean that we don't have to deal with it any more. | 0:32:13 | 0:32:16 | |
We don't have to worry about it going back to the Supreme Court, | 0:32:16 | 0:32:19 | |
we don't have to worry about worrying if he's going to get out. | 0:32:19 | 0:32:23 | |
We don't have to worry about any of that, we can actually move forward. | 0:32:23 | 0:32:26 | |
And that, that, I think, would be the best thing. | 0:32:26 | 0:32:30 | |
I'm just... It would be peace of mind for me. | 0:32:30 | 0:32:32 | |
What about peace and love, maybe? | 0:32:32 | 0:32:34 | |
-For me, it would, so... -OK. -Oh, well. | 0:32:34 | 0:32:38 | |
Well, all right... | 0:32:38 | 0:32:40 | |
I don't believe, uh, in the death penalty. | 0:32:49 | 0:32:51 | |
I just don't believe it. I couldn't do it. | 0:32:51 | 0:32:54 | |
And to me, if a person is being punished in the prison, | 0:32:54 | 0:32:59 | |
that's punishment enough, punishment enough, for me. | 0:32:59 | 0:33:02 | |
I think it's a damn shame we have to do it, | 0:33:06 | 0:33:08 | |
but there are certain people that need to be... | 0:33:08 | 0:33:12 | |
..done away with rather than spend our hard-earned money trying to | 0:33:13 | 0:33:16 | |
rehabilitate them. | 0:33:16 | 0:33:18 | |
Rehabilitating someone on death row, that's poppycock. | 0:33:21 | 0:33:24 | |
How could you take someone that did something so terrible and turn them | 0:33:25 | 0:33:29 | |
back into a good person? | 0:33:29 | 0:33:31 | |
In my opinion, it can't be done. | 0:33:32 | 0:33:33 | |
Each of these cases began with individuals being murdered in a | 0:33:37 | 0:33:43 | |
heinous fashion, and some people say, | 0:33:43 | 0:33:45 | |
"Well, why don't you just keep them in prison forever?" | 0:33:45 | 0:33:47 | |
Well, you have to worry about... Are they going to be a danger to, uh, | 0:33:47 | 0:33:51 | |
society again, | 0:33:51 | 0:33:53 | |
danger to those who have to guard them and have contact with them in prison? | 0:33:53 | 0:33:58 | |
One of the inmates was given life in prison without parole and he | 0:33:58 | 0:34:02 | |
escaped and killed somebody. | 0:34:02 | 0:34:03 | |
The interesting thing about Kenneth Williams is that he has undergone an | 0:34:14 | 0:34:21 | |
extensive transformation, uh, in prison. | 0:34:21 | 0:34:25 | |
I've been on his case, uh, for a number of years and he has, uh, | 0:34:25 | 0:34:29 | |
matured, uh... | 0:34:29 | 0:34:31 | |
..very impressively during that time. | 0:34:32 | 0:34:35 | |
And his case presents a question - does change, | 0:34:35 | 0:34:39 | |
rehabilitation, remorse have any impact on whether death should be | 0:34:39 | 0:34:46 | |
inflicted as a remedy? | 0:34:46 | 0:34:47 | |
God have mercy on this wretched man, | 0:34:52 | 0:34:54 | |
conceived in sin, | 0:34:54 | 0:34:57 | |
brought forth in iniquity. | 0:34:57 | 0:34:59 | |
I was raised in a dysfunctional home where there was drug abuse. | 0:35:02 | 0:35:06 | |
After my parents' separation, when I was eight years old, | 0:35:07 | 0:35:11 | |
I was sexually molested by another kid. | 0:35:11 | 0:35:15 | |
I was guilt-ridden, | 0:35:16 | 0:35:18 | |
too ashamed to speak out, | 0:35:18 | 0:35:21 | |
and so I suffered in silence and in loneliness... | 0:35:21 | 0:35:25 | |
..out of which came forth vengeance and a vow... | 0:35:26 | 0:35:29 | |
..never again to be victimised prey. | 0:35:30 | 0:35:34 | |
To be the one on the offence, not the defence. | 0:35:35 | 0:35:39 | |
To be the predator, not the prey. | 0:35:41 | 0:35:43 | |
Hello, everybody, how are you doing? | 0:35:46 | 0:35:49 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:35:49 | 0:35:50 | |
I'm Lieutenant Greg Bowman, | 0:36:18 | 0:36:20 | |
I'm a criminal investigator with the Jefferson County Sheriff's Department | 0:36:20 | 0:36:23 | |
and we're at the Bonanza Restaurant in Pine Bluff, | 0:36:23 | 0:36:26 | |
the scene of a kidnapping that led to a murder and attempted murder | 0:36:26 | 0:36:29 | |
that occurred on December the 13th of 1998. | 0:36:29 | 0:36:33 | |
Also present is victim Peter Robertson. | 0:36:33 | 0:36:36 | |
-Peter, is this the parking lot where it started from? -Yes, it is. | 0:36:36 | 0:36:39 | |
OK, just walk and show me what happened where. | 0:36:39 | 0:36:41 | |
Nicky Hurd and Peter Robertson had been to church when Kenneth Williams | 0:36:45 | 0:36:49 | |
took the opportunity to pull a gun on those two college students. | 0:36:49 | 0:36:53 | |
Forced them into the car that they had borrowed. | 0:36:53 | 0:36:56 | |
He drove them around Pine Bluff, | 0:36:56 | 0:36:58 | |
he took them to an ATM to get money out. | 0:36:58 | 0:37:00 | |
I told myself, "I will release them unharmed." | 0:37:13 | 0:37:17 | |
They weren't a problem at all. | 0:37:17 | 0:37:20 | |
I had what I wanted, money. | 0:37:20 | 0:37:22 | |
Then he had them get on their knees behind an abandoned building off | 0:37:35 | 0:37:38 | |
Hardin Reed Road, got in the car, to steal their car and leave, | 0:37:38 | 0:37:42 | |
and then he backed up... | 0:37:42 | 0:37:44 | |
"They saw your face... | 0:37:45 | 0:37:46 | |
"..they'll expose you to the cops. | 0:37:48 | 0:37:51 | |
"Aren't you still on parole? | 0:37:51 | 0:37:52 | |
"You are so busted, that is unless you go back and get rid of the problem." | 0:37:53 | 0:37:59 | |
Sadly, I went back. | 0:38:01 | 0:38:03 | |
I shot both of them execution-style... | 0:38:16 | 0:38:19 | |
..while one held on to a Bible and the other begged for their lives. | 0:38:20 | 0:38:26 | |
I felt nothing. | 0:38:26 | 0:38:27 | |
This is a bullet wound in Dominique's leg. | 0:38:41 | 0:38:45 | |
I am responsible for that. | 0:38:47 | 0:38:48 | |
This is a bullet wound | 0:38:53 | 0:38:56 | |
in Dominique's thigh... | 0:38:56 | 0:38:57 | |
VOICE BREAKS: I am responsible for this. | 0:38:59 | 0:39:01 | |
This is a bullet wound in Dominique's head... | 0:39:05 | 0:39:09 | |
I, Kenneth Williams, am responsible for this. | 0:39:11 | 0:39:15 | |
The young man ended up surviving the encounter, while the young woman | 0:39:24 | 0:39:28 | |
had her life senselessly stolen away. | 0:39:28 | 0:39:31 | |
In 1999, I was given a sentence of life without parole. | 0:39:34 | 0:39:38 | |
At 20 years old, I barely missed the death penalty. | 0:39:39 | 0:39:43 | |
-ANNOUNCER: -Publicly, Kenneth Williams seemed amused by the idea of going to | 0:39:44 | 0:39:48 | |
prison for the rest of his life. | 0:39:48 | 0:39:50 | |
During his September trial, he reportedly laughed when his sentence | 0:39:50 | 0:39:53 | |
was announced, and told the slain teenager's family, quote, | 0:39:53 | 0:39:57 | |
"You thought I was going to die, didn't you?" | 0:39:57 | 0:40:00 | |
Two wrongs don't make a right, killing him does not bring her back. | 0:40:00 | 0:40:04 | |
As long as he's being punished or as long as he's in prison, then we're fine. | 0:40:04 | 0:40:09 | |
Last Sunday, he brought his victim's parents even more grief when he | 0:40:11 | 0:40:14 | |
escaped from prison, and no-one knows exactly how. | 0:40:14 | 0:40:17 | |
We found a bed sheet outside the chapel, on the ground. | 0:40:19 | 0:40:22 | |
There is the possibility that that could have been used as a way to | 0:40:22 | 0:40:26 | |
help climb one of the cross fences, one of the interior fences. | 0:40:26 | 0:40:29 | |
As officials interviewed fellow inmates and guards, | 0:40:29 | 0:40:32 | |
residents in nearby Grady question the security of the prison that's | 0:40:32 | 0:40:36 | |
been this community's neighbour for nearly 100 years. | 0:40:36 | 0:40:39 | |
During my escape, | 0:40:41 | 0:40:43 | |
I felt compelled to eliminate any threats that could jeopardise my | 0:40:43 | 0:40:47 | |
efforts for freedom. | 0:40:47 | 0:40:49 | |
I cold-bloodedly shot and killed a man with his own gun, | 0:40:50 | 0:40:56 | |
in his own home. | 0:40:56 | 0:40:57 | |
Cecil Boren was 57. | 0:41:01 | 0:41:04 | |
He was a father, a grandfather, | 0:41:04 | 0:41:07 | |
a husband for 34 years to his wife, Jean. | 0:41:07 | 0:41:10 | |
Cecil had stayed home from church that morning to work in his yard. | 0:41:12 | 0:41:15 | |
Williams shot Cecil seven times, | 0:41:17 | 0:41:20 | |
killing him and then stealing his truck, | 0:41:20 | 0:41:25 | |
his guns and other valuable items. | 0:41:25 | 0:41:28 | |
He drove Cecil's truck to Missouri, where he led police on a high-speed | 0:41:28 | 0:41:32 | |
chase, killing another person, driver Michael Greenwood. | 0:41:32 | 0:41:37 | |
Not yet 21 years old, | 0:41:50 | 0:41:52 | |
within a few months of my first death penalty trial, the State of Arkansas | 0:41:52 | 0:41:57 | |
pursued the death penalty against me for capital murder. | 0:41:57 | 0:42:00 | |
The second time around, the state succeeded. | 0:42:01 | 0:42:04 | |
My reason for making an appearance before you | 0:42:07 | 0:42:10 | |
is to answer the critics who say, "Lock them up, throw away the key, | 0:42:10 | 0:42:16 | |
"there's no changing this one." | 0:42:16 | 0:42:19 | |
Inside my prison cell on death row | 0:42:19 | 0:42:22 | |
I surrendered my life to Christ, if he could accept it. | 0:42:22 | 0:42:28 | |
On September 4th, 2005, | 0:42:28 | 0:42:31 | |
I officially became an ordained minister in the First Trinity Church | 0:42:31 | 0:42:35 | |
Of God In Christ, and life for me hasn't been the same since. | 0:42:35 | 0:42:40 | |
I'm a death row preacher. | 0:42:42 | 0:42:43 | |
My prison cell has become my pulpit. | 0:42:43 | 0:42:46 | |
Let me be an example. | 0:42:47 | 0:42:49 | |
Behold, God's workmanship... | 0:42:51 | 0:42:54 | |
..before you... | 0:42:55 | 0:42:56 | |
..transformed and in his right mind. | 0:42:58 | 0:43:00 | |
All right, this will conclude the executive clemency hearing for | 0:43:03 | 0:43:07 | |
Kenneth Williams. Thank you very much. | 0:43:07 | 0:43:11 | |
These people deserve to be punished. | 0:43:11 | 0:43:14 | |
We're not talking about death versus being out on the street. | 0:43:14 | 0:43:19 | |
We're talking about death versus a lifetime of incarceration. | 0:43:19 | 0:43:23 | |
Looking ahead, Kenneth Williams is scheduled to die by lethal injection | 0:43:35 | 0:43:39 | |
on Thursday. The original schedule set by the governor had two | 0:43:39 | 0:43:43 | |
executions but Jason McGehee will not be put to death. | 0:43:43 | 0:43:46 | |
He's the only condemned prisoner who received a recommendation of | 0:43:46 | 0:43:49 | |
clemency from the parole board, following his hearing last month. | 0:43:49 | 0:43:52 | |
A judge also stayed his execution. | 0:43:52 | 0:43:54 | |
The Attorney General says she's not challenging that ruling. | 0:43:54 | 0:43:59 | |
The parole board recommended clemency. | 0:44:08 | 0:44:11 | |
His execution will not happen on the 27th of April. | 0:44:13 | 0:44:17 | |
Right now, they're waiting to see if Governor Hutchinson grants him | 0:44:19 | 0:44:24 | |
clemency and if he does not grant him clemency then.... | 0:44:24 | 0:44:27 | |
..then he will get a new date for execution. | 0:44:27 | 0:44:30 | |
So, right now we're just waiting on the governor to decide. | 0:44:30 | 0:44:33 | |
I'm getting tired of us being pulled around, | 0:44:35 | 0:44:37 | |
trying to figure out what's going on. | 0:44:37 | 0:44:39 | |
I am - yes - very angry about them recommending the clemency, | 0:44:39 | 0:44:44 | |
but right now it's just... It's hard to express because I am. | 0:44:44 | 0:44:47 | |
I'm mentally, I'm physically drained. | 0:44:47 | 0:44:48 | |
He's not worth your energy. | 0:44:52 | 0:44:54 | |
Just give him life without parole, he'll be gone from our lives, | 0:44:55 | 0:44:58 | |
he won't be in our life any more. | 0:44:58 | 0:45:01 | |
I don't ever hear about Christopher Epps and he has life without parole. | 0:45:01 | 0:45:06 | |
We don't ever hear about him... | 0:45:06 | 0:45:07 | |
..and if he had life without parole, we wouldn't have to hear about | 0:45:09 | 0:45:14 | |
Jason McGehee. And that's it. | 0:45:14 | 0:45:17 | |
Yeah, with knowing, you know, what all has happened, | 0:45:18 | 0:45:21 | |
you know, what we had to endure... | 0:45:21 | 0:45:24 | |
..just with the executions... | 0:45:26 | 0:45:27 | |
..honestly, I think I would agree, | 0:45:30 | 0:45:32 | |
you know, like, with the whole life without parole because it... | 0:45:32 | 0:45:35 | |
Right now, it's just... I'm so mentally drained. | 0:45:37 | 0:45:40 | |
It's, it's becoming overwhelming, it really is. | 0:45:41 | 0:45:45 | |
I just... Yeah, honestly, I'd go with life without parole, just screw it. | 0:45:46 | 0:45:51 | |
I don't... I'm just... I'm done... | 0:45:51 | 0:45:52 | |
..I'm burned out. | 0:45:54 | 0:45:55 | |
I haven't had the chance to get in here because of the weather. | 0:46:33 | 0:46:36 | |
I've put sweet potatoes in, beans, cabbage and the tomato plants. | 0:46:36 | 0:46:42 | |
Um, corn. | 0:46:42 | 0:46:45 | |
And then my watermelons... | 0:46:45 | 0:46:46 | |
..and cantaloupes, is what I've been planting. | 0:46:46 | 0:46:50 | |
It's coming around, it's just going to take time. | 0:46:51 | 0:46:54 | |
Now he has the recommendation, | 0:46:58 | 0:47:01 | |
clemency is just out there. | 0:47:01 | 0:47:03 | |
The only reason that he wouldn't get clemency is that the governor just | 0:47:03 | 0:47:09 | |
kind of says, "Heck with it," and not give it to him. | 0:47:09 | 0:47:12 | |
It's not right that they prosecute him, like, death row, and they don't... | 0:47:12 | 0:47:18 | |
..don't prosecute the others that actually done it. | 0:47:18 | 0:47:21 | |
This is a letter of declaration from Chris Epps, | 0:47:29 | 0:47:34 | |
one of the boys that killed that kid. | 0:47:34 | 0:47:36 | |
It says, "As far as John's death is concerned, | 0:47:36 | 0:47:42 | |
"I started it and Ben finished it. | 0:47:42 | 0:47:46 | |
"Jason really should not have received the death penalty. | 0:47:47 | 0:47:51 | |
"What I did was no-one's fault but my own, but I tried to blame Jason. | 0:47:51 | 0:47:58 | |
"I was the first one to hit John, Jason did not ask me to do this. | 0:47:59 | 0:48:06 | |
"I just...did it. | 0:48:06 | 0:48:09 | |
"I choked him at the end. | 0:48:09 | 0:48:11 | |
"Both Ben and I strangled John. | 0:48:11 | 0:48:14 | |
"Jason never strangled John. | 0:48:14 | 0:48:16 | |
"My lawyer always said the best defence strategy would be to say | 0:48:17 | 0:48:23 | |
"that Jason was the main one. | 0:48:23 | 0:48:25 | |
"I wasn't coerced in any way by anyone to do anything to John." | 0:48:27 | 0:48:34 | |
And then he signs it... | 0:48:35 | 0:48:36 | |
..June 13th, 2011. | 0:48:38 | 0:48:41 | |
I think the governor will accept the recommendation, um, I hope so. | 0:48:45 | 0:48:50 | |
He should have time served and let him out, but, uh, | 0:48:52 | 0:48:56 | |
they're not going to do that. | 0:48:56 | 0:48:58 | |
But, um, | 0:48:58 | 0:49:00 | |
at least he'll be... At least he'll still be alive. | 0:49:00 | 0:49:05 | |
All right, ladies, you all have a good day. | 0:49:18 | 0:49:20 | |
-Thank you. -You're welcome. | 0:49:20 | 0:49:22 | |
-Bye, John. -Bye. -Y'all take care. | 0:49:24 | 0:49:26 | |
He had no mercy, | 0:49:29 | 0:49:31 | |
he had no...nothing for human life when he killed my son. | 0:49:31 | 0:49:37 | |
So, I don't see... | 0:49:37 | 0:49:39 | |
..uh, why people have mercy for him, you know, and if, if our peers, | 0:49:40 | 0:49:46 | |
if our peers, our 12 peers in the courthouse listened to all the evidence | 0:49:46 | 0:49:51 | |
and seen all the evidence | 0:49:51 | 0:49:54 | |
and says guilty... | 0:49:54 | 0:49:55 | |
..for capital murder and receives the death sentence, | 0:49:56 | 0:50:00 | |
then it should be carried through. | 0:50:00 | 0:50:02 | |
All these, all this other stuff is hogwash. | 0:50:02 | 0:50:06 | |
It's just a way of trying to get a person off death row... | 0:50:06 | 0:50:10 | |
..but not actually seeing what that person's done... | 0:50:11 | 0:50:14 | |
..not only to my son, to my whole family... | 0:50:16 | 0:50:19 | |
..or any victim's family. | 0:50:20 | 0:50:23 | |
It's not right. I mean, you know... | 0:50:25 | 0:50:27 | |
..that's the way I look at it. So, that's the way it is. | 0:50:28 | 0:50:32 | |
People can have unconditional love for you, | 0:50:50 | 0:50:52 | |
a stranger that's never met you, somebody that can connect with you, | 0:50:52 | 0:50:55 | |
just even somebody just walking by... | 0:50:55 | 0:50:57 | |
..you can bring a beautiful thing out of any situation. | 0:50:58 | 0:51:02 | |
There can be good out of anything. | 0:51:04 | 0:51:06 | |
Kenneth Williams is convicted of killing my father. | 0:51:20 | 0:51:23 | |
I was five when it happened. | 0:51:25 | 0:51:26 | |
-Do you remember your father? -Yes. | 0:51:28 | 0:51:31 | |
-What was your father like? -Goofy, funny, a jokester, | 0:51:31 | 0:51:36 | |
the life of the party, the life of the room. | 0:51:36 | 0:51:39 | |
Everybody loved him. | 0:51:39 | 0:51:41 | |
He was a great guy, a great dad. | 0:51:41 | 0:51:43 | |
He just wanted to be... | 0:51:43 | 0:51:45 | |
..a dad, a family guy, you know. | 0:51:45 | 0:51:47 | |
We were not born. | 0:51:48 | 0:51:50 | |
He died in October, and we were born in December. | 0:51:50 | 0:51:54 | |
They never met him, but they look just like him and they act like him. | 0:51:54 | 0:51:57 | |
-So... -I mean, we know what it's like growing up without a father and we | 0:51:58 | 0:52:02 | |
would give anything to meet him. | 0:52:02 | 0:52:04 | |
Oh, I'm so nervous. What time is it? | 0:52:05 | 0:52:07 | |
It's 1:04. | 0:52:07 | 0:52:08 | |
I guess, so... So she should be landing any minute. | 0:52:08 | 0:52:11 | |
We are waiting for Jasmine and her daughter. | 0:52:12 | 0:52:14 | |
Jasmine is Kenneth William's daughter, | 0:52:14 | 0:52:17 | |
and she should be getting off the plane any time now. | 0:52:17 | 0:52:20 | |
Yeah, it's from Denver, Denver, Colorado. | 0:52:20 | 0:52:23 | |
Well, my mom had sent me a link and Jasmine said that it had been | 0:52:23 | 0:52:28 | |
17 years since she had seen her dad, | 0:52:28 | 0:52:30 | |
and I just related to that so much, because it has been 17 years since | 0:52:30 | 0:52:35 | |
I've seen my dad, and you know, I just, I would want that so much. | 0:52:35 | 0:52:39 | |
So, just for her to be able to have that is amazing. | 0:52:39 | 0:52:43 | |
How is she actually affording to get here? | 0:52:43 | 0:52:46 | |
My mom and stepdad bought the tickets for them. | 0:52:46 | 0:52:49 | |
Tomorrow, she will be a victim, and her daughter, you know. | 0:52:50 | 0:52:55 | |
And so, anything we can do to give comfort, make it | 0:52:55 | 0:52:59 | |
any better, you know, I... I dunno... | 0:52:59 | 0:53:05 | |
That's why. | 0:53:05 | 0:53:07 | |
Hi! | 0:53:13 | 0:53:14 | |
Hi! My name is Kayla, it's nice to meet you. | 0:53:21 | 0:53:25 | |
Don't be scared. It's OK. | 0:53:26 | 0:53:28 | |
You're so beautiful. | 0:53:30 | 0:53:31 | |
Are you excited? | 0:53:41 | 0:53:42 | |
You're going to see your grandpa. | 0:53:43 | 0:53:46 | |
I don't feel anything but love for him. | 0:53:51 | 0:53:54 | |
I feel like he was the first victim. | 0:53:54 | 0:53:57 | |
You know, you're not born evil... | 0:53:57 | 0:54:00 | |
..or a monster, it's created through his life, his trauma, I don't know. | 0:54:00 | 0:54:04 | |
But I mean, trauma can change you, a bad childhood, | 0:54:04 | 0:54:09 | |
it changes the course of your life. | 0:54:09 | 0:54:12 | |
I feel | 0:54:12 | 0:54:14 | |
that the guy that did those things - | 0:54:14 | 0:54:16 | |
horrible things - is already dead | 0:54:16 | 0:54:19 | |
and this is a new guy that, you know, this isn't the same guy. | 0:54:19 | 0:54:23 | |
So, that's a good thing, that's justice, you know. | 0:54:23 | 0:54:27 | |
Come on, I'm coming in too. | 0:54:27 | 0:54:29 | |
We're going to all get in together, your mommy's going to ride next to you. | 0:54:30 | 0:54:34 | |
I have a lot of guilt towards | 0:54:37 | 0:54:39 | |
the victims and | 0:54:39 | 0:54:42 | |
the families that he's hurt. | 0:54:42 | 0:54:44 | |
And then because he's hurt those people, it's led to me not having a | 0:54:44 | 0:54:49 | |
father and everything, as well. So, I do not know why, | 0:54:49 | 0:54:52 | |
and I've always wondered what drove him to do these such crazy callous | 0:54:52 | 0:54:57 | |
things because I'm, like, even though I'm his daughter I, I don't, like, | 0:54:57 | 0:55:01 | |
get into fights or anything, I could never hurt anyone, you know. | 0:55:01 | 0:55:05 | |
-Yeah. -I just have... -The question... | 0:55:05 | 0:55:07 | |
-..just so much questions. -Yeah. -..that I haven't been able to ask. | 0:55:08 | 0:55:12 | |
I think it went pretty well. | 0:56:33 | 0:56:35 | |
They took some pictures. | 0:56:35 | 0:56:36 | |
Oh, you got some photographs, wow. | 0:56:36 | 0:56:39 | |
And this is his parents, as well, too. | 0:56:39 | 0:56:41 | |
I feel a little bit better now that I finally got to see him and got to say my goodbye | 0:56:43 | 0:56:47 | |
-and everything, and... -He was so excited, he said it, | 0:56:47 | 0:56:50 | |
"You know, I haven't seen..." he | 0:56:50 | 0:56:51 | |
said, "I can't think of the last time I saw a child." | 0:56:51 | 0:56:54 | |
Yeah, he just, he said that too. | 0:56:54 | 0:56:55 | |
Are you going to get to see some family? | 0:56:55 | 0:56:58 | |
Yeah. I got to meet my grandfather and see my grandma for the first | 0:56:58 | 0:57:00 | |
time in over 18 years. | 0:57:00 | 0:57:03 | |
You remember that when you left, you were, you were like this. | 0:57:04 | 0:57:07 | |
Yeah. | 0:57:07 | 0:57:08 | |
-Yeah. -And I didn't even realise that I came here before and he was, like, | 0:57:08 | 0:57:13 | |
it was the same room and, you know... | 0:57:13 | 0:57:16 | |
Most people, they say they've changed and, like, their actions | 0:57:16 | 0:57:19 | |
show different. And it's, like... | 0:57:19 | 0:57:22 | |
..with him, I, I do believe that he really has changed. | 0:57:22 | 0:57:25 | |
He really has. I mean, he's, he's a really outstanding human being. | 0:57:25 | 0:57:29 | |
We have pleadings filed in lots of different courts, uh, | 0:57:42 | 0:57:45 | |
both state and federal, and now the stays of execution is filed, and | 0:57:45 | 0:57:49 | |
you know, we're hoping for the best. | 0:57:49 | 0:57:52 | |
It's an uphill battle, but we're hoping for the best. | 0:57:52 | 0:57:54 | |
What do you think his chances are? | 0:57:54 | 0:57:57 | |
I don't think they're so great. | 0:57:57 | 0:57:59 | |
I'll do my very best. | 0:58:06 | 0:58:08 | |
Society has everyone believing that the ultimate justice you can get is | 0:58:53 | 0:58:58 | |
death. When you get that, you've got the ultimate justice for your loved | 0:58:58 | 0:59:01 | |
one, for your family, for, you know, and it's just not true. | 0:59:01 | 0:59:05 | |
That's not justice. | 0:59:05 | 0:59:07 | |
So, everyone just believes that, they believe a lie. | 0:59:07 | 0:59:11 | |
ANNOUNCER: We are here once again tonight, this is our fourth time at Cummins | 0:59:28 | 0:59:31 | |
since a week ago Monday. | 0:59:31 | 0:59:34 | |
Uh, we have seen three executions so far, one more scheduled for tonight. | 0:59:34 | 0:59:38 | |
We have just seen the witnesses arrive for the scheduled execution | 0:59:38 | 0:59:42 | |
of Kenneth Williams, who murdered Cecil Boren back in 1999. | 0:59:42 | 0:59:45 | |
His judgment day arrives today. | 0:59:45 | 0:59:48 | |
There was another inmate, who was recommended for clemency, and because | 0:59:48 | 0:59:51 | |
he won that recommendation of clemency, his execution was put off. | 0:59:51 | 0:59:54 | |
Earlier this afternoon, Kenneth Williams received his last meal. | 1:00:15 | 1:00:21 | |
In lieu of a last meal he requested, uh, communion. | 1:00:21 | 1:00:26 | |
And communion was administered to him by his spiritual advisor. | 1:00:26 | 1:00:30 | |
PHONE RINGS | 1:02:36 | 1:02:37 | |
ANNOUNCER: Breaking news - | 1:03:05 | 1:03:06 | |
we have now learned that Kenneth Williams is the latest Arkansas | 1:03:06 | 1:03:10 | |
death row inmate to be put to death by the state for his capital crimes. | 1:03:10 | 1:03:14 | |
-He was pronounced dead. -That's right. | 1:03:14 | 1:03:16 | |
The first injection happened at 10.52pm. | 1:03:16 | 1:03:19 | |
11:05 being the time of death here. | 1:03:19 | 1:03:22 | |
The following is the last statement of Kenneth Williams. | 1:03:36 | 1:03:39 | |
"To Kayla Greenwood and the whole Greenwood family, | 1:03:41 | 1:03:45 | |
"the acts of grace, | 1:03:45 | 1:03:48 | |
"forgiveness and mercy you demonstrated toward the person who | 1:03:48 | 1:03:54 | |
"had taken so much from you, by bringing to me in prison my own baby | 1:03:54 | 1:03:59 | |
"and grandchild, | 1:03:59 | 1:04:01 | |
"right before my scheduled execution... | 1:04:01 | 1:04:03 | |
"No rapist, murderer, terrorist, butcher, barbarian, | 1:04:05 | 1:04:11 | |
"not even old Beelzebub himself could withstand such a blast of | 1:04:11 | 1:04:17 | |
"glorious light and continue to walk in darkness. | 1:04:17 | 1:04:22 | |
"The next words will be spoken in my native language tongue..." | 1:04:22 | 1:04:28 | |
At which point, he spoke in what would be commonly described as | 1:04:28 | 1:04:33 | |
in tongues. | 1:04:33 | 1:04:35 | |
Also, uh, I do want to make you all aware that | 1:04:40 | 1:04:45 | |
I was informed that at approximately | 1:04:45 | 1:04:49 | |
10.55pm Kenneth Williams did, uh, | 1:04:49 | 1:04:54 | |
shake for approximately ten seconds. | 1:04:54 | 1:04:57 | |
The media witnesses are en route back to the centre. | 1:05:02 | 1:05:05 | |
Had the consciousness check been performed when he shook? | 1:05:05 | 1:05:08 | |
That's the extent of the information I have at this time. | 1:05:08 | 1:05:11 | |
-ANNOUNCER: -At 10:55, Kenneth Williams did, quote, "shake". | 1:05:16 | 1:05:20 | |
This does seem to be a bit out of the ordinary compared to, to some | 1:05:20 | 1:05:24 | |
of the other, uh, executions. | 1:05:24 | 1:05:26 | |
We will wait to see exactly what happens there. | 1:05:26 | 1:05:29 | |
Uh, since we're all on a deadline I'll start with what we all have | 1:05:32 | 1:05:35 | |
in our notes as, "Coughing, convulsing, lurching, jerking with sound." | 1:05:35 | 1:05:41 | |
Even with the microphone turned off, | 1:05:41 | 1:05:43 | |
we were actually able to hear | 1:05:43 | 1:05:46 | |
things in the witness area from the execution chamber. | 1:05:46 | 1:05:50 | |
The execution started at 10:52 and at the time, uh, | 1:05:50 | 1:05:53 | |
Mr Williams was speaking in tongues, | 1:05:53 | 1:05:55 | |
his body lurched forward as though... We were trying to describe it, | 1:05:55 | 1:06:00 | |
it was, like, if you're on a bumpy road and you hit a bump and your | 1:06:00 | 1:06:03 | |
body gets thrown forward, er... | 1:06:03 | 1:06:05 | |
It happened about 15 times in quick succession, then it slowed, | 1:06:05 | 1:06:09 | |
and then there are other times in our notes, where it appeared as | 1:06:09 | 1:06:13 | |
though he was gasping. | 1:06:13 | 1:06:14 | |
Uh, but it was clear he was, um, striving for breath. | 1:06:14 | 1:06:21 | |
At 11:05, the coroner pronounced him dead. | 1:06:21 | 1:06:24 | |
Having never witnessed an execution like this, | 1:06:24 | 1:06:29 | |
to me, it looked like there was something wrong. | 1:06:29 | 1:06:32 | |
Like it wasn't going smoothly. | 1:06:32 | 1:06:34 | |
With the chest moving up and down, with the body movements, | 1:06:36 | 1:06:40 | |
with the sound of his voice gasping for air, | 1:06:40 | 1:06:43 | |
trying to breathe, it just didn't seem like that... | 1:06:43 | 1:06:46 | |
That was not at all what I expected. | 1:06:46 | 1:06:49 | |
Uh, the next individual to address the pool will be | 1:07:00 | 1:07:03 | |
J R Davis, Communications Director for Governor Asa Hutchinson. | 1:07:03 | 1:07:06 | |
Um, first of all, most of you, if you haven't received a statement | 1:07:10 | 1:07:14 | |
from the governor, I can get that to you. | 1:07:14 | 1:07:16 | |
It's a night of reflection for Arkansans, | 1:07:16 | 1:07:19 | |
who should have a renewed faith in the judicial system in our state | 1:07:19 | 1:07:25 | |
because that justice was carried out tonight. | 1:07:25 | 1:07:28 | |
The other day, you described the executions so far as, "flawless". | 1:07:28 | 1:07:31 | |
Do you think that description still fits, given what was described with | 1:07:31 | 1:07:35 | |
-this execution? -I do. | 1:07:35 | 1:07:37 | |
Basically, it's an involuntary muscular reaction, | 1:07:37 | 1:07:39 | |
in the medical community it's widely known that that is an effect | 1:07:39 | 1:07:43 | |
of Midazolam | 1:07:43 | 1:07:45 | |
and no-one here has stated tonight that it looked like he was | 1:07:45 | 1:07:48 | |
in pain of any sort. | 1:07:48 | 1:07:49 | |
JR, are you concerned at all that he was potentially still conscious | 1:07:50 | 1:07:53 | |
if there was heavy breathing when a paralytic was administered at 10:57? | 1:07:53 | 1:07:57 | |
-I'm not. -I'm sorry, we just, we just heard vivid descriptions of an | 1:07:57 | 1:08:02 | |
execution process that, that just by the words used, | 1:08:02 | 1:08:06 | |
seemed anything but smooth and I, I just don't understand on what | 1:08:06 | 1:08:12 | |
basis your, your statements draw any kind of credibility. | 1:08:12 | 1:08:16 | |
I mean, all the words used to describe this execution make it | 1:08:16 | 1:08:19 | |
sound like it didn't go smoothly. | 1:08:19 | 1:08:21 | |
So, I don't know about the governor, but are you standing here listening to this description, | 1:08:21 | 1:08:25 | |
troubled at all by what we were just told tonight? | 1:08:25 | 1:08:27 | |
Again, I've told you, the governor is always, he always follows up on | 1:08:27 | 1:08:30 | |
what happens but look, it's again, | 1:08:30 | 1:08:32 | |
according to the medical community, this is not an unusual thing. | 1:08:32 | 1:08:35 | |
So, would you like to come up here and testify to it? | 1:08:35 | 1:08:39 | |
I'm answering your question to the best of my ability. | 1:08:39 | 1:08:41 | |
Anything else? | 1:08:46 | 1:08:47 | |
All right. | 1:08:50 | 1:08:52 | |
All right, thank you. | 1:09:39 | 1:09:41 | |
We can tell you that for now, this process, | 1:10:00 | 1:10:03 | |
upon which the State of Arkansas embarked a few months ago, | 1:10:03 | 1:10:07 | |
to execute eight inmates over the course of two weeks, is now over, | 1:10:07 | 1:10:10 | |
and the final count stands at four men executed, four men's lives spared | 1:10:10 | 1:10:15 | |
at least for now, and certainly into the foreseeable future, as the | 1:10:15 | 1:10:19 | |
State of Arkansas wrestles with how to move forward with | 1:10:19 | 1:10:22 | |
capital punishment in the state. | 1:10:22 | 1:10:25 | |
Kenneth Williams was the fourth inmate out of eight whose scheduled | 1:10:33 | 1:10:37 | |
executions were carried out. Now the ACLU are requesting an investigation | 1:10:37 | 1:10:41 | |
into whether Williams was tortured by the state before he was killed, | 1:10:41 | 1:10:45 | |
questioning the state's, quote, | 1:10:45 | 1:10:47 | |
"rush to use up its supply of Midazolam before it expired." | 1:10:47 | 1:10:51 | |
Good morning to you, everyone. I did want to reflect, for a moment, | 1:11:00 | 1:11:05 | |
about the last two weeks. | 1:11:05 | 1:11:08 | |
Uh, that after decades of waiting, the families of the victims were | 1:11:08 | 1:11:13 | |
finally provided the justice that they were promised, | 1:11:13 | 1:11:16 | |
and they also saw that our system of laws have meaning. | 1:11:16 | 1:11:20 | |
And that last part is important as well. | 1:11:20 | 1:11:24 | |
What exactly happened with Kenneth Williams' execution last night? | 1:11:24 | 1:11:28 | |
Do you stand by your spokesman's statement that these executions were | 1:11:28 | 1:11:32 | |
-flawless? -I went through what happened last night, with | 1:11:32 | 1:11:36 | |
Director Kelley. This ten seconds of... | 1:11:36 | 1:11:40 | |
..movement on his part, uh, | 1:11:41 | 1:11:43 | |
was what was described as coughing without noise. | 1:11:43 | 1:11:50 | |
The director told you he was coughing without noise? | 1:11:50 | 1:11:52 | |
That's in direct contrast to what the media witnesses have described. | 1:11:52 | 1:11:55 | |
Are you saying those witnesses were wrong? | 1:11:55 | 1:11:57 | |
Uh, you, whenever... I've been a lawyer a long time and if you have | 1:11:57 | 1:12:02 | |
five witnesses, uh, you're going to have five different descriptions. | 1:12:02 | 1:12:06 | |
Director Kelley was the closest one to observe it and that's what she | 1:12:06 | 1:12:10 | |
relayed to me, and that's what I accept. | 1:12:10 | 1:12:12 | |
When would you feel comfortable having the state carry out executions again? | 1:12:12 | 1:12:15 | |
You know, I really don't even want to think about it right now, | 1:12:15 | 1:12:18 | |
quite frankly! | 1:12:18 | 1:12:19 | |
But you know, if the Attorney General sends over names, we will start | 1:12:19 | 1:12:24 | |
the process over again, in terms of dates, in terms of access to drugs. | 1:12:24 | 1:12:29 | |
There's a number of others that, uh, | 1:12:29 | 1:12:32 | |
are still waiting for justice and the verdicts of the jury have not | 1:12:32 | 1:12:38 | |
been carried out. So, we will do that responsibility when it comes. | 1:12:38 | 1:12:41 | |
All right, thank you very much. | 1:12:43 | 1:12:44 | |
-Thanks for your patience. -Thank you so much for seeing us. | 1:13:54 | 1:13:57 | |
-Thank you. -That's very kind of you. It was very nice to meet you and | 1:13:57 | 1:14:00 | |
I hear you're running for re-election, is that right? | 1:14:00 | 1:14:02 | |
-I am, I am. -Do you feel as though this experience will help with that? | 1:14:02 | 1:14:06 | |
You know, er... | 1:14:06 | 1:14:08 | |
HE CHUCKLES | 1:14:14 | 1:14:16 | |
Right. | 1:14:16 | 1:14:19 | |
OK. | 1:14:19 | 1:14:21 | |
All right, lovely to meet you. | 1:14:21 | 1:14:22 | |
Take care, thank you very much. | 1:14:22 | 1:14:24 |