Episode 4 Life and Death Row


Episode 4

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This programme contains scenes which some viewers may find disturbing.

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This is a bullet wound in Dominique's head.

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I, Kenneth Williams, am responsible for this.

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My goal was to make sure that we, uh,

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did justice in Arkansas in a way that reflected well on the state.

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This is theatre.

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Political theatre.

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The problem is, Midazolam has a history of not working.

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It does not dull the pain, and that's where you've seen these gasping,

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coughing, horrible deaths where it took two hours to die.

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Last Thursday night, Ledell Lee

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became the first Arkansas death row inmate

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put to death in 12 years.

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Then on Monday, the first

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double execution in this country since 2000.

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I see Jason McGehee as a monster.

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This is my boy and I don't want him to die.

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ANNOUNCER: Well, welcome back once again to Cummins prison

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after three executions in a week,

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eight scheduled executions over the past ten days.

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Uh, it's an incredible story.

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The State of Arkansas uses lethal injection, uh,

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to perform its executions and one of the drugs in that lethal injection

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was about to expire and it appears that the State of Arkansas is unable,

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uh, to acquire any more of that drug.

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So, if these executions were to be carried out,

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they all had to be done before the end of the month of April.

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Judgment day arrives today.

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We're keeping our eye on that,

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and we'll bring you the latest throughout the night from here at

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Cummins prison. Beth, let's go back to you in Little Rock.

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-ANNOUNCER:

-Governor Asa Hutchinson does have the power to grant executive clemency

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for any or all of these inmates.

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He has said he will maintain that option until the very end, with the

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victims' families close to his heart.

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Today is the clemency hearing for the parole board to go ahead and

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execute the person that murdered my son...

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..is what today is.

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It's justice for my son, is what it is.

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I walk in this room and I see a 50/50 chance...

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..that he will be put down and then I see 50% that he will spend

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the rest of his life in jail.

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What would that be like for you and your family if he's let off the

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-death penalty?

-I will feel that John has been forgotten.

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What is very difficult on the victims' families is that these

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cases continue to be reviewed.

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The inmates have a right to ask for clemency and they have to go before

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the parole board and have to express themselves and go through the trauma

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again, but the victims' families - that I talk to - say if it's

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the law of the land and a jury metes out that punishment, uh,

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then that should be carried out.

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I remember my grandma telling me that John was gone, and I told her,

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I said, '"I don't know what you're talking about.

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"What are you talking about?"

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And she said, "Baby, they've found him."

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I said, "Oh, well, good, John's going to come home," you know.

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-Yeah.

-She said, "No, baby, they've found him in the woods."

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And then she said, "He's gone, he went to be with Jesus."

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So, I literally jumped out of the car and just fell.

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And she was sobbing, my little brother was sobbing,

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and I cried so much that I got sick.

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I didn't understand why someone would do that to my brother because

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he had a heart of gold, he would help anybody.

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Anybody.

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It's something that happened to all of us.

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We have to make sure that his life and his death was not in vain.

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And I mean, and that's...

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..that's all we can do.

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But... You OK, Dad?

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I can remember so many things from whenever I was six.

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I remember the day that they found John.

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I remember my mom just broke down crying,

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she held me, and I'm just trying to figure out why for the longest time,

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for about two weeks I was asking my mom, I'm like, you know, "Where is John?"

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You know, "Is John going to come home?"

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Is... you know, "Where's John?" Like, "I miss John, where is he?"

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You know, I'm only six years old.

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SHE SNIFFLES

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You're OK, sis.

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Hopefully, today will give us some... Give us some closure.

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This case was about Jason McGehee's direction and participation in

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Harrison, Arkansas in 1996,

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in an hour's long torture and murder of a 15-year-old boy.

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The victim in this case was John Melbourne Junior.

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He was a young boy who was described as eager to please other people.

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He was a special education student and, like a lot of young people,

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impressionable. I don't think you can make this decision that you're

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asked to make - which is very weighty - unless you have

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all the facts. You should know what it is that you're being asked to forgive here.

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He tried to make the best life that he possibly could with his,

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his handicaps.

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It took him longer to learn.

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Other kids would be picking on him and stuff, calling him stupid and stuff.

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And he'd get frustrated and aggravated with it all.

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So, he would, he would skip school.

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Back then, in the 1990s, all the young kids would hang out at the square.

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He started hanging out with this gang because he wanted acceptance.

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Knowing John, he thought that he could trust them and that they were

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his friends.

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Jason McGehee, Ben McFarland and Chris Epps,

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as well as a couple of others, were involved in a string of thefts.

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Jason was 20, he led the group, he was in charge.

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Among the things they had taken were some blank cheques and they were

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encouraging John to use those blank cheques, to pass them

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and then get some cash in addition to that.

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John went to a shoe shop and he went in and tried to get a pair of shoes.

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They let him go ahead and pass the bad cheque and they gave him the

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shoes, which was when we became involved.

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He wound up telling us what he knew about the group that had been

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committing the thefts that we had been investigating and passing the

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-cheques.

-They called me up from work.

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I went down to the police station and the detective told me what happened,

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and that he was going to release John into my custody and let me take

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him home.

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I told John to stay home...

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..um, not to go anywhere.

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I'd be back home in a little while from work and uh,

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we would talk about this.

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When I got home, he was gone.

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This house is where Jason and his friends would hang out,

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this was their crash house.

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I can only imagine my brother walking down this hill...

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..and then walking down them steps and up on that porch...

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..and not realising what's about to happen.

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Jason McGehee thought that John...

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..snitched.

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John knocked on the door,

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Christopher Epps punched my brother in the face and grabbed him and

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pulled him into the house.

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CAMERA CLICKS

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And that's when they all started beating on John.

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One of the things that does stick out in my mind is that Chris Epps

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would repeatedly kick John with some type of kung fu kick.

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That was really only a pre-cursor to the beating that was given to John

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at the abandoned house, um, near Omaha.

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They had John bound, so that he couldn't escape,

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and they drove him to the house at Omaha.

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At one point, one of the participants asked John how it felt

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to know that he was going to die.

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So, it became apparent that the group had some type of plan in mind.

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At the house, there is a lengthy beating process that takes place,

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that particularly Chris Epps is involved in, as well as McFarland

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and Jason McGehee.

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His arms and legs were broken...

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..he had broken ribs, and they broke all his bones in his face and his

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skull was fractured in many places.

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Until they finally brought him this way.

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I'm sure he was scared.

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At some point, the group made a decision to execute John,

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they were going to kill him and the way they were going to do that was

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to take him out into the woods, some distance from the abandoned house.

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Jason McGehee,

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Ben McFarland and Chris Epps put John on his knees and they take

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turns strangling him with a piece of electrical cord.

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One person would hold the cord, one end in each hand, with the cord

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around John's neck from behind,

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and they would put their knee into his upper spine or the back of his

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neck and push forward until they could hear him choking and gurgling.

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It is ultimately Ben McFarland who tells me in an interview that he was

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the one who was actively strangling John Melbourne when he loses his life.

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I've gotta deal with this, losing my son.

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I live with this every day.

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There ain't a holiday that don't go by...

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..that I don't cry.

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To do something like this to a child, a 15-year-old child,

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think if it was your child, how would you all feel?

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The victims of crimes, I've been noticing, don't get justice,

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but I promised John that I would get justice for him, I would be his

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voice and I will be his voice till I die.

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After that,

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basically, our family fell apart.

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My parents got a divorce, us kids were separated.

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And just, to be honest, everything went to hell.

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It was a living hell after that.

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During the course of the interviews, it became quickly apparent that

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there was one person who was leading the group and that was Jason McGehee.

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This event happened primarily because of McGehee's involvement and

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depending on whose statement you care to give more credence to, um,

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one person was more responsible than the others,

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but the common denominator in all of the statements was that McGehee

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orchestrated everything and McGehee was in charge of what happened that night.

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Jason McGehee received the death sentence,

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Chris Epps was sentenced to life without the possibility of parole.

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I occasionally check on him and make sure he's still in there.

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Uh, Ben McFarland was also given life without parole.

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That was later overturned by the Supreme Court because of his age at

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the time. He took a plea deal and agreed to take the maximum sentence,

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which was 40 years. That makes him eligible for parole in 2025.

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In my opinion, did Jason McGehee receive a fair sentence for

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what happened? Yes.

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Do you think it's right that the person who actually took John's life

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could be out of prison, and someone that didn't actually take John's

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life, could be put to death?

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Do I think that's right?

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I think that...

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..I am not the person that had to make that decision.

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-You did good.

-Thank you.

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-How did it go?

-It was emotional.

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I'm not sure.

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I-I think they'll really think it over, um,

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I'm not sure.

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Arkansas is just really, um, a good Christian state.

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We have a Christian governor in our state, which is wonderful.

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Governor Hutchinson is a conservative governor.

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He was elected in 2014 and, you know, I can honestly say that I

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voted for him. And he's doing an exceptional job.

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He's very pro-life.

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We have a march for life every year, against abortion,

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and he's always there.

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I think he's a really good Christian honest man,

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and he's trying to do good for our state.

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How can you be a Christian and kill someone?

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You're pleasing one part of the Bible Belt, but you see what I'm saying?

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People that believe in justice as the Bible says it,

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but they don't ever think about the other part of Christianity,

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about how you're supposed to love your neighbour and, you know, give

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people forgiveness and all that kind of stuff.

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We do not rape rapists and say that is just.

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We do not steal from thieves and say it is just.

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We do not torch the homes of arsonists and say it is just.

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However, we somehow have the notion that it is morally justifiable to

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kill in pre-meditated and deliberate fashion -

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that's the legal definition of murder -

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people who have killed,

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and we say that is morally justifiable.

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That is nonsense.

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We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all people are

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-created equal.

-Yes, sir.

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And they are endowed by their creator with inalienable

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rights, and among these are life,

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that's the first one.

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-The empire is not the giver of life.

-That's right.

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God does.

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APPLAUSE

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This is about politics...

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..it's about politics...

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..and you can quote me on this, come on.

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You are going to kill them because the drugs are expiring?

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This is theatre.

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Political theatre, so that people can say, "We killed people

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"y'all don't like."

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That is not justice any time.

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It's a lynching.

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Jesus' work was dangerous work, if you challenged Herod in his palace,

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that's dangerous work.

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If you challenge the governor, that's dangerous work,

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if his name is Pontius Pilate, or the name of your governor here,

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that's dangerous work.

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If you challenge the powers that think they have the right to decide

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over life and death, and who will die and who will live,

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-whether that was a fair trial or...

-Yeah.

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..whether the death will be too painful, it doesn't really matter.

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The one for blood lust is the one with power and that's the one who

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wants to make the decision. If you challenge that, that's dangerous work.

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-Yeah.

-The world in which we live is a bad world,

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but Jesus can make it right.

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CHEERING

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Some lawmakers are calling for a Pulaski County judge to resign,

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after he took part in a protest on Friday.

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Judge Wendell Griffen has become controversial after he went to the

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Governor's Mansion to protest.

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Judge Griffen publicly protested capital punishment.

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He's currently not allowed to hear cases pertaining to the

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death penalty or execution protocols.

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The death penalty is just,

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it's good against evil.

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I see Jason McGehee...

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..as a predator.

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I see Jason McGehee as a monster.

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If the clemency is not granted, will you be at the execution?

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I will.

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I will watch him. I will watch him.

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McGehee was there to see my brother take his last breath,

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I'm going to be there to see him - McGehee - take HIS last breath.

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It's their choice.

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They, they want to watch him be

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executed, then that's, that's on them.

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I don't.

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I don't want to see another person die.

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For a long time, I was for capital punishment, until I started doing a

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lot of soul-searching on my own.

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I have come to the conclusion to that it's not going to benefit me

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in the end.

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I don't want to see anyone else suffer...

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..as my family has.

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My heart aches for his family.

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It's heartbreaking to think of that...

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..to know that it looms over your head.

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I can't imagine.

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This was Jason's baby picture, right after he was born.

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I was really glad that he was a boy.

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All the rest of my kids is girls, they're all girls.

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He was my only boy.

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Um...this picture here and everything,

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he was with me in my pick-up.

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He's like anybody else, um, any kid growing up.

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He got with the wrong crowd.

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My family was Confederate - that's uh,

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General Jackson with his troops out in the forest.

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This here is Robert E Lee.

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Jason done them all by hand, he's a very good artist.

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He made that for... He handmade that.

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A person that is distorted

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and angry at the world and everything like that,

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couldn't make anything as beautiful as this.

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I feel sorry for John's family and everything like that,

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and I wish there was something I could do about it or reverse everything.

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But this is my boy,

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and, um, I don't want him to die.

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This is my garden here.

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I'm building it up and everything here.

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I'll take these old tyres and fill them full of dirt until I get a wall.

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I've got two more rows, I've got this row and another row.

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Then I'm putting loads of dirt in here and raise everything up for a

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raised garden and everything.

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It'll work out pretty good and it don't cost me really that much, uh,

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the price of dirt and that's about it.

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And when Jason was here, he helped me a lot.

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He likes, he likes flowers, he liked trees, bushes, gardening, um,

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he likes the same thing as I do.

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He's been incarcerated for a long time.

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He don't go outside, he's in a box all the time.

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You know, whenever I go down there,

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he's like a little puppy, cos he's very grateful somebody comes down to

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see him and we talk and talk and talk,

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and I wish there was something that I could do for him or bring him or

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something like that. But, uh, there's not too much I can do.

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The clemency hearing is supposed to give a valuation to see if they can

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take Jason off death row.

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I'm anxious about it, I want him to start looking forward...

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..to a life besides that prison.

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If they get him off death row, maybe we can get him off the rest of it

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and everything for what, he's spent 19, 20 years down there.

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He's... For something he didn't even do, and, um,

0:24:090:24:14

I'd like to see him out.

0:24:140:24:16

We are here today in the matter of Jason McGehee, who is serving a

0:24:300:24:35

sentence of death. And Mr McGehee is,

0:24:350:24:38

in fact, requesting life without parole.

0:24:380:24:41

Good morning, Chairman, and members of the board.

0:24:470:24:49

This is Jason, I'm John Williams, um,

0:24:490:24:51

and we appreciate the opportunity to appear before you today to make our

0:24:510:24:55

case for clemency. You, as the parole board, are in the unique and

0:24:550:24:59

really awesome position of doing something that no court is able to do,

0:24:590:25:02

and that's to look at Jason McGehee as a whole person, and despite his

0:25:020:25:06

offence, to say that there is value to his life and that the state

0:25:060:25:10

should not take it.

0:25:100:25:11

First, I would like to address the disproportionality in sentences, uh,

0:25:110:25:15

between Jason and the primary co-defendants in this case, uh,

0:25:150:25:19

Ben McFarland and Chris Epps.

0:25:190:25:21

This was a group action through and through.

0:25:210:25:25

No-one disputes that Ben,

0:25:250:25:27

Chris and Jason all participated in John's beating.

0:25:270:25:31

No-one disputes that each of them was present at John's death,

0:25:310:25:34

and no-one disputes that it was Ben who actually killed John.

0:25:340:25:37

But Chris now has a life without parole sentence and Ben will have

0:25:390:25:43

the opportunity to come before you in 2025 and request parole.

0:25:430:25:48

We don't begrudge Ben that,

0:25:480:25:51

but the difference between parole and death in this circumstance is

0:25:510:25:54

too great a difference. The second point - and I think this is perhaps

0:25:540:25:59

the most important one, uh, Jason has shown after his incarceration, uh,

0:25:590:26:05

that he has been rehabilitated.

0:26:050:26:06

He's been back there for 19 years and in those 19 years he has received

0:26:060:26:11

only one disciplinary infraction, which was for covering a light.

0:26:110:26:14

He's never been violent, he's never bothered anyone.

0:26:140:26:18

Ray Hobbs is here, the former director of the department and, uh,

0:26:180:26:22

he's going to tell you a little bit more about how remarkable that is.

0:26:220:26:25

-Good morning.

-ALL: Good morning.

0:26:250:26:27

I believe in the death penalty, I do.

0:26:280:26:32

Justice, justice should include mercy, redemption,

0:26:320:26:38

forgiveness and now

0:26:380:26:40

if you take all those into factor and you look at Jason...

0:26:400:26:45

..with those factors, I think you would have to come to a conclusion,

0:26:460:26:50

he has learnt his lesson.

0:26:500:26:51

If you can get up 19 years in a row and not have a...

0:26:520:26:56

..bad day with staff or other inmates, that's pretty remarkable.

0:26:570:27:03

I mean, I have not, in my 40 years, seen a file that clean.

0:27:030:27:08

Yes, it would be my recommendation

0:27:090:27:11

that this board consider Jason for clemency.

0:27:110:27:14

I think he has a lot to still offer that he can give to others,

0:27:140:27:20

if his life is spared.

0:27:200:27:22

The short time I knew John, he was always a friend.

0:27:270:27:29

I never wanted John to die.

0:27:290:27:31

I regret my involvement in that whole night.

0:27:310:27:34

I wish I could change what happened.

0:27:340:27:35

John deserved to live, none of this should have happened.

0:27:350:27:38

All my co-defendants, except Chris Epps, get the chance

0:27:390:27:43

to be out there, including Ben, and become better people than we were

0:27:430:27:47

that night, as out-of-control kids.

0:27:470:27:49

Maybe they can make up for our actions a little bit but none of us

0:27:490:27:52

can take it back, none of us can

0:27:520:27:54

take the pain away from John's family.

0:27:540:27:57

I wish I could make my involvement up to them, but that's not possible.

0:27:570:28:00

I'm sorry for my involvement. I know they can't,

0:28:000:28:04

but I wish they could accept my apology.

0:28:040:28:06

I also know this is a hard position that this board is in deciding life

0:28:060:28:11

and death, and I'm sorry you're in the position because of me.

0:28:110:28:14

Thank you for listening to me and thank you for your time.

0:28:140:28:18

On a personal note, uh,

0:28:180:28:20

I've known Jason for a year and a half, since I was assigned to his case.

0:28:200:28:23

I visit him often, I've gotten to know him.

0:28:230:28:26

He's my friend.

0:28:260:28:27

He's a good human being, no matter what other people say about him

0:28:290:28:33

later today, and his story is a testament to how a life can be rehabilitated and

0:28:330:28:37

redeemed and executing him would just be the waste of a life of a

0:28:370:28:41

person who has a lot of good left to give to this world.

0:28:410:28:44

So, I would ask the board to recommend clemency.

0:28:440:28:47

-Thank you.

-Thank you very much.

0:28:470:28:48

This is my brother...

0:29:120:29:14

-..when he went to go and visit his brother.

-Josh.

0:29:150:29:18

Josh. That was the last picture his mom had of her son.

0:29:180:29:23

SHE SNIFFLES

0:29:230:29:24

This is all of us together.

0:29:260:29:28

We were pretty happy then.

0:29:310:29:33

-That's Clessie...

-Yeah.

0:29:350:29:37

-..and that's me.

-Is that the last family picture that you have?

0:29:370:29:40

-Yeah.

-OK.

0:29:400:29:42

Yep.

0:29:420:29:43

He was our protector.

0:29:440:29:46

There's times where I will sit there and just talk to him,

0:29:470:29:52

like this interview, I didn't know if I should do it,

0:29:520:29:54

but I knew that John would want me to get his story out...

0:29:540:29:58

..and I don't think John would want him to be executed.

0:29:590:30:02

Really?

0:30:020:30:03

I don't think he would.

0:30:050:30:06

I really don't.

0:30:060:30:08

You are very different from your sister in the death penalty,

0:30:130:30:18

-in your views.

-Yes.

0:30:180:30:19

-Yes.

-What do you think needs to happen?

0:30:190:30:21

I feel that Jason McGehee needs... needs the death penalty.

0:30:210:30:25

He chose to take a life and he has to pay for what he did.

0:30:250:30:29

It killed me knowing that...

0:30:320:30:35

..my brother had to experience this, because he was such....

0:30:360:30:41

He was a good boy, he was a good brother.

0:30:410:30:45

He didn't deserve that.

0:30:450:30:47

SHE SNIFFLES

0:30:480:30:50

I was for the death penalty for a long time.

0:30:560:30:59

Once I forgave him, that's when I...

0:30:590:31:02

..I was released from that prison.

0:31:040:31:05

So, hopefully...

0:31:060:31:08

..my sister can get... Reach that point too.

0:31:090:31:12

Um, um, I don't know. I can forgive a lot...

0:31:180:31:22

-..it's just he, he has to pay for what he's done.

-But...

0:31:240:31:28

-You can't just...

-Something that...

-..use that excuse though.

-..severe.

0:31:280:31:32

I know, I get what you're saying.

0:31:320:31:34

You know, the severity of that situation. It's... It has to, in my opinion, it has to be done.

0:31:340:31:41

It's, you know...

0:31:410:31:43

-OK, so what if...?

-An eye for an eye, that's my view.

0:31:430:31:45

OK, so what if they come back and say, "You know what, we're just going to go

0:31:450:31:49

"ahead and just let him..." Life with, uh, life without parole.

0:31:490:31:52

Are we good with that?

0:31:520:31:54

-No, I wouldn't.

-Why?

-Because, for one, he'll be living off of us once again.

0:31:540:31:59

The same with all the other people that were involved,

0:31:590:32:01

-and we...like, during our childhood, during everything...

-I know.

0:32:010:32:05

-..the crap that we went through.

-I know that.

0:32:050:32:06

And we struggled, and they couldn't.

0:32:060:32:08

-They have a roof over their head, they had food in their stomach...

-I know what you mean.

0:32:080:32:12

..while we had to starve. No.

0:32:120:32:13

But it would also mean that we don't have to deal with it any more.

0:32:130:32:16

We don't have to worry about it going back to the Supreme Court,

0:32:160:32:19

we don't have to worry about worrying if he's going to get out.

0:32:190:32:23

We don't have to worry about any of that, we can actually move forward.

0:32:230:32:26

And that, that, I think, would be the best thing.

0:32:260:32:30

I'm just... It would be peace of mind for me.

0:32:300:32:32

What about peace and love, maybe?

0:32:320:32:34

-For me, it would, so...

-OK.

-Oh, well.

0:32:340:32:38

Well, all right...

0:32:380:32:40

I don't believe, uh, in the death penalty.

0:32:490:32:51

I just don't believe it. I couldn't do it.

0:32:510:32:54

And to me, if a person is being punished in the prison,

0:32:540:32:59

that's punishment enough, punishment enough, for me.

0:32:590:33:02

I think it's a damn shame we have to do it,

0:33:060:33:08

but there are certain people that need to be...

0:33:080:33:12

..done away with rather than spend our hard-earned money trying to

0:33:130:33:16

rehabilitate them.

0:33:160:33:18

Rehabilitating someone on death row, that's poppycock.

0:33:210:33:24

How could you take someone that did something so terrible and turn them

0:33:250:33:29

back into a good person?

0:33:290:33:31

In my opinion, it can't be done.

0:33:320:33:33

Each of these cases began with individuals being murdered in a

0:33:370:33:43

heinous fashion, and some people say,

0:33:430:33:45

"Well, why don't you just keep them in prison forever?"

0:33:450:33:47

Well, you have to worry about... Are they going to be a danger to, uh,

0:33:470:33:51

society again,

0:33:510:33:53

danger to those who have to guard them and have contact with them in prison?

0:33:530:33:58

One of the inmates was given life in prison without parole and he

0:33:580:34:02

escaped and killed somebody.

0:34:020:34:03

The interesting thing about Kenneth Williams is that he has undergone an

0:34:140:34:21

extensive transformation, uh, in prison.

0:34:210:34:25

I've been on his case, uh, for a number of years and he has, uh,

0:34:250:34:29

matured, uh...

0:34:290:34:31

..very impressively during that time.

0:34:320:34:35

And his case presents a question - does change,

0:34:350:34:39

rehabilitation, remorse have any impact on whether death should be

0:34:390:34:46

inflicted as a remedy?

0:34:460:34:47

God have mercy on this wretched man,

0:34:520:34:54

conceived in sin,

0:34:540:34:57

brought forth in iniquity.

0:34:570:34:59

I was raised in a dysfunctional home where there was drug abuse.

0:35:020:35:06

After my parents' separation, when I was eight years old,

0:35:070:35:11

I was sexually molested by another kid.

0:35:110:35:15

I was guilt-ridden,

0:35:160:35:18

too ashamed to speak out,

0:35:180:35:21

and so I suffered in silence and in loneliness...

0:35:210:35:25

..out of which came forth vengeance and a vow...

0:35:260:35:29

..never again to be victimised prey.

0:35:300:35:34

To be the one on the offence, not the defence.

0:35:350:35:39

To be the predator, not the prey.

0:35:410:35:43

Hello, everybody, how are you doing?

0:35:460:35:49

LAUGHTER

0:35:490:35:50

I'm Lieutenant Greg Bowman,

0:36:180:36:20

I'm a criminal investigator with the Jefferson County Sheriff's Department

0:36:200:36:23

and we're at the Bonanza Restaurant in Pine Bluff,

0:36:230:36:26

the scene of a kidnapping that led to a murder and attempted murder

0:36:260:36:29

that occurred on December the 13th of 1998.

0:36:290:36:33

Also present is victim Peter Robertson.

0:36:330:36:36

-Peter, is this the parking lot where it started from?

-Yes, it is.

0:36:360:36:39

OK, just walk and show me what happened where.

0:36:390:36:41

Nicky Hurd and Peter Robertson had been to church when Kenneth Williams

0:36:450:36:49

took the opportunity to pull a gun on those two college students.

0:36:490:36:53

Forced them into the car that they had borrowed.

0:36:530:36:56

He drove them around Pine Bluff,

0:36:560:36:58

he took them to an ATM to get money out.

0:36:580:37:00

I told myself, "I will release them unharmed."

0:37:130:37:17

They weren't a problem at all.

0:37:170:37:20

I had what I wanted, money.

0:37:200:37:22

Then he had them get on their knees behind an abandoned building off

0:37:350:37:38

Hardin Reed Road, got in the car, to steal their car and leave,

0:37:380:37:42

and then he backed up...

0:37:420:37:44

"They saw your face...

0:37:450:37:46

"..they'll expose you to the cops.

0:37:480:37:51

"Aren't you still on parole?

0:37:510:37:52

"You are so busted, that is unless you go back and get rid of the problem."

0:37:530:37:59

Sadly, I went back.

0:38:010:38:03

I shot both of them execution-style...

0:38:160:38:19

..while one held on to a Bible and the other begged for their lives.

0:38:200:38:26

I felt nothing.

0:38:260:38:27

This is a bullet wound in Dominique's leg.

0:38:410:38:45

I am responsible for that.

0:38:470:38:48

This is a bullet wound

0:38:530:38:56

in Dominique's thigh...

0:38:560:38:57

VOICE BREAKS: I am responsible for this.

0:38:590:39:01

This is a bullet wound in Dominique's head...

0:39:050:39:09

I, Kenneth Williams, am responsible for this.

0:39:110:39:15

The young man ended up surviving the encounter, while the young woman

0:39:240:39:28

had her life senselessly stolen away.

0:39:280:39:31

In 1999, I was given a sentence of life without parole.

0:39:340:39:38

At 20 years old, I barely missed the death penalty.

0:39:390:39:43

-ANNOUNCER:

-Publicly, Kenneth Williams seemed amused by the idea of going to

0:39:440:39:48

prison for the rest of his life.

0:39:480:39:50

During his September trial, he reportedly laughed when his sentence

0:39:500:39:53

was announced, and told the slain teenager's family, quote,

0:39:530:39:57

"You thought I was going to die, didn't you?"

0:39:570:40:00

Two wrongs don't make a right, killing him does not bring her back.

0:40:000:40:04

As long as he's being punished or as long as he's in prison, then we're fine.

0:40:040:40:09

Last Sunday, he brought his victim's parents even more grief when he

0:40:110:40:14

escaped from prison, and no-one knows exactly how.

0:40:140:40:17

We found a bed sheet outside the chapel, on the ground.

0:40:190:40:22

There is the possibility that that could have been used as a way to

0:40:220:40:26

help climb one of the cross fences, one of the interior fences.

0:40:260:40:29

As officials interviewed fellow inmates and guards,

0:40:290:40:32

residents in nearby Grady question the security of the prison that's

0:40:320:40:36

been this community's neighbour for nearly 100 years.

0:40:360:40:39

During my escape,

0:40:410:40:43

I felt compelled to eliminate any threats that could jeopardise my

0:40:430:40:47

efforts for freedom.

0:40:470:40:49

I cold-bloodedly shot and killed a man with his own gun,

0:40:500:40:56

in his own home.

0:40:560:40:57

Cecil Boren was 57.

0:41:010:41:04

He was a father, a grandfather,

0:41:040:41:07

a husband for 34 years to his wife, Jean.

0:41:070:41:10

Cecil had stayed home from church that morning to work in his yard.

0:41:120:41:15

Williams shot Cecil seven times,

0:41:170:41:20

killing him and then stealing his truck,

0:41:200:41:25

his guns and other valuable items.

0:41:250:41:28

He drove Cecil's truck to Missouri, where he led police on a high-speed

0:41:280:41:32

chase, killing another person, driver Michael Greenwood.

0:41:320:41:37

Not yet 21 years old,

0:41:500:41:52

within a few months of my first death penalty trial, the State of Arkansas

0:41:520:41:57

pursued the death penalty against me for capital murder.

0:41:570:42:00

The second time around, the state succeeded.

0:42:010:42:04

My reason for making an appearance before you

0:42:070:42:10

is to answer the critics who say, "Lock them up, throw away the key,

0:42:100:42:16

"there's no changing this one."

0:42:160:42:19

Inside my prison cell on death row

0:42:190:42:22

I surrendered my life to Christ, if he could accept it.

0:42:220:42:28

On September 4th, 2005,

0:42:280:42:31

I officially became an ordained minister in the First Trinity Church

0:42:310:42:35

Of God In Christ, and life for me hasn't been the same since.

0:42:350:42:40

I'm a death row preacher.

0:42:420:42:43

My prison cell has become my pulpit.

0:42:430:42:46

Let me be an example.

0:42:470:42:49

Behold, God's workmanship...

0:42:510:42:54

..before you...

0:42:550:42:56

..transformed and in his right mind.

0:42:580:43:00

All right, this will conclude the executive clemency hearing for

0:43:030:43:07

Kenneth Williams. Thank you very much.

0:43:070:43:11

These people deserve to be punished.

0:43:110:43:14

We're not talking about death versus being out on the street.

0:43:140:43:19

We're talking about death versus a lifetime of incarceration.

0:43:190:43:23

Looking ahead, Kenneth Williams is scheduled to die by lethal injection

0:43:350:43:39

on Thursday. The original schedule set by the governor had two

0:43:390:43:43

executions but Jason McGehee will not be put to death.

0:43:430:43:46

He's the only condemned prisoner who received a recommendation of

0:43:460:43:49

clemency from the parole board, following his hearing last month.

0:43:490:43:52

A judge also stayed his execution.

0:43:520:43:54

The Attorney General says she's not challenging that ruling.

0:43:540:43:59

The parole board recommended clemency.

0:44:080:44:11

His execution will not happen on the 27th of April.

0:44:130:44:17

Right now, they're waiting to see if Governor Hutchinson grants him

0:44:190:44:24

clemency and if he does not grant him clemency then....

0:44:240:44:27

..then he will get a new date for execution.

0:44:270:44:30

So, right now we're just waiting on the governor to decide.

0:44:300:44:33

I'm getting tired of us being pulled around,

0:44:350:44:37

trying to figure out what's going on.

0:44:370:44:39

I am - yes - very angry about them recommending the clemency,

0:44:390:44:44

but right now it's just... It's hard to express because I am.

0:44:440:44:47

I'm mentally, I'm physically drained.

0:44:470:44:48

He's not worth your energy.

0:44:520:44:54

Just give him life without parole, he'll be gone from our lives,

0:44:550:44:58

he won't be in our life any more.

0:44:580:45:01

I don't ever hear about Christopher Epps and he has life without parole.

0:45:010:45:06

We don't ever hear about him...

0:45:060:45:07

..and if he had life without parole, we wouldn't have to hear about

0:45:090:45:14

Jason McGehee. And that's it.

0:45:140:45:17

Yeah, with knowing, you know, what all has happened,

0:45:180:45:21

you know, what we had to endure...

0:45:210:45:24

..just with the executions...

0:45:260:45:27

..honestly, I think I would agree,

0:45:300:45:32

you know, like, with the whole life without parole because it...

0:45:320:45:35

Right now, it's just... I'm so mentally drained.

0:45:370:45:40

It's, it's becoming overwhelming, it really is.

0:45:410:45:45

I just... Yeah, honestly, I'd go with life without parole, just screw it.

0:45:460:45:51

I don't... I'm just... I'm done...

0:45:510:45:52

..I'm burned out.

0:45:540:45:55

I haven't had the chance to get in here because of the weather.

0:46:330:46:36

I've put sweet potatoes in, beans, cabbage and the tomato plants.

0:46:360:46:42

Um, corn.

0:46:420:46:45

And then my watermelons...

0:46:450:46:46

..and cantaloupes, is what I've been planting.

0:46:460:46:50

It's coming around, it's just going to take time.

0:46:510:46:54

Now he has the recommendation,

0:46:580:47:01

clemency is just out there.

0:47:010:47:03

The only reason that he wouldn't get clemency is that the governor just

0:47:030:47:09

kind of says, "Heck with it," and not give it to him.

0:47:090:47:12

It's not right that they prosecute him, like, death row, and they don't...

0:47:120:47:18

..don't prosecute the others that actually done it.

0:47:180:47:21

This is a letter of declaration from Chris Epps,

0:47:290:47:34

one of the boys that killed that kid.

0:47:340:47:36

It says, "As far as John's death is concerned,

0:47:360:47:42

"I started it and Ben finished it.

0:47:420:47:46

"Jason really should not have received the death penalty.

0:47:470:47:51

"What I did was no-one's fault but my own, but I tried to blame Jason.

0:47:510:47:58

"I was the first one to hit John, Jason did not ask me to do this.

0:47:590:48:06

"I just...did it.

0:48:060:48:09

"I choked him at the end.

0:48:090:48:11

"Both Ben and I strangled John.

0:48:110:48:14

"Jason never strangled John.

0:48:140:48:16

"My lawyer always said the best defence strategy would be to say

0:48:170:48:23

"that Jason was the main one.

0:48:230:48:25

"I wasn't coerced in any way by anyone to do anything to John."

0:48:270:48:34

And then he signs it...

0:48:350:48:36

..June 13th, 2011.

0:48:380:48:41

I think the governor will accept the recommendation, um, I hope so.

0:48:450:48:50

He should have time served and let him out, but, uh,

0:48:520:48:56

they're not going to do that.

0:48:560:48:58

But, um,

0:48:580:49:00

at least he'll be... At least he'll still be alive.

0:49:000:49:05

All right, ladies, you all have a good day.

0:49:180:49:20

-Thank you.

-You're welcome.

0:49:200:49:22

-Bye, John.

-Bye.

-Y'all take care.

0:49:240:49:26

He had no mercy,

0:49:290:49:31

he had no...nothing for human life when he killed my son.

0:49:310:49:37

So, I don't see...

0:49:370:49:39

..uh, why people have mercy for him, you know, and if, if our peers,

0:49:400:49:46

if our peers, our 12 peers in the courthouse listened to all the evidence

0:49:460:49:51

and seen all the evidence

0:49:510:49:54

and says guilty...

0:49:540:49:55

..for capital murder and receives the death sentence,

0:49:560:50:00

then it should be carried through.

0:50:000:50:02

All these, all this other stuff is hogwash.

0:50:020:50:06

It's just a way of trying to get a person off death row...

0:50:060:50:10

..but not actually seeing what that person's done...

0:50:110:50:14

..not only to my son, to my whole family...

0:50:160:50:19

..or any victim's family.

0:50:200:50:23

It's not right. I mean, you know...

0:50:250:50:27

..that's the way I look at it. So, that's the way it is.

0:50:280:50:32

People can have unconditional love for you,

0:50:500:50:52

a stranger that's never met you, somebody that can connect with you,

0:50:520:50:55

just even somebody just walking by...

0:50:550:50:57

..you can bring a beautiful thing out of any situation.

0:50:580:51:02

There can be good out of anything.

0:51:040:51:06

Kenneth Williams is convicted of killing my father.

0:51:200:51:23

I was five when it happened.

0:51:250:51:26

-Do you remember your father?

-Yes.

0:51:280:51:31

-What was your father like?

-Goofy, funny, a jokester,

0:51:310:51:36

the life of the party, the life of the room.

0:51:360:51:39

Everybody loved him.

0:51:390:51:41

He was a great guy, a great dad.

0:51:410:51:43

He just wanted to be...

0:51:430:51:45

..a dad, a family guy, you know.

0:51:450:51:47

We were not born.

0:51:480:51:50

He died in October, and we were born in December.

0:51:500:51:54

They never met him, but they look just like him and they act like him.

0:51:540:51:57

-So...

-I mean, we know what it's like growing up without a father and we

0:51:580:52:02

would give anything to meet him.

0:52:020:52:04

Oh, I'm so nervous. What time is it?

0:52:050:52:07

It's 1:04.

0:52:070:52:08

I guess, so... So she should be landing any minute.

0:52:080:52:11

We are waiting for Jasmine and her daughter.

0:52:120:52:14

Jasmine is Kenneth William's daughter,

0:52:140:52:17

and she should be getting off the plane any time now.

0:52:170:52:20

Yeah, it's from Denver, Denver, Colorado.

0:52:200:52:23

Well, my mom had sent me a link and Jasmine said that it had been

0:52:230:52:28

17 years since she had seen her dad,

0:52:280:52:30

and I just related to that so much, because it has been 17 years since

0:52:300:52:35

I've seen my dad, and you know, I just, I would want that so much.

0:52:350:52:39

So, just for her to be able to have that is amazing.

0:52:390:52:43

How is she actually affording to get here?

0:52:430:52:46

My mom and stepdad bought the tickets for them.

0:52:460:52:49

Tomorrow, she will be a victim, and her daughter, you know.

0:52:500:52:55

And so, anything we can do to give comfort, make it

0:52:550:52:59

any better, you know, I... I dunno...

0:52:590:53:05

That's why.

0:53:050:53:07

Hi!

0:53:130:53:14

Hi! My name is Kayla, it's nice to meet you.

0:53:210:53:25

Don't be scared. It's OK.

0:53:260:53:28

You're so beautiful.

0:53:300:53:31

Are you excited?

0:53:410:53:42

You're going to see your grandpa.

0:53:430:53:46

I don't feel anything but love for him.

0:53:510:53:54

I feel like he was the first victim.

0:53:540:53:57

You know, you're not born evil...

0:53:570:54:00

..or a monster, it's created through his life, his trauma, I don't know.

0:54:000:54:04

But I mean, trauma can change you, a bad childhood,

0:54:040:54:09

it changes the course of your life.

0:54:090:54:12

I feel

0:54:120:54:14

that the guy that did those things -

0:54:140:54:16

horrible things - is already dead

0:54:160:54:19

and this is a new guy that, you know, this isn't the same guy.

0:54:190:54:23

So, that's a good thing, that's justice, you know.

0:54:230:54:27

Come on, I'm coming in too.

0:54:270:54:29

We're going to all get in together, your mommy's going to ride next to you.

0:54:300:54:34

I have a lot of guilt towards

0:54:370:54:39

the victims and

0:54:390:54:42

the families that he's hurt.

0:54:420:54:44

And then because he's hurt those people, it's led to me not having a

0:54:440:54:49

father and everything, as well. So, I do not know why,

0:54:490:54:52

and I've always wondered what drove him to do these such crazy callous

0:54:520:54:57

things because I'm, like, even though I'm his daughter I, I don't, like,

0:54:570:55:01

get into fights or anything, I could never hurt anyone, you know.

0:55:010:55:05

-Yeah.

-I just have...

-The question...

0:55:050:55:07

-..just so much questions.

-Yeah.

-..that I haven't been able to ask.

0:55:080:55:12

I think it went pretty well.

0:56:330:56:35

They took some pictures.

0:56:350:56:36

Oh, you got some photographs, wow.

0:56:360:56:39

And this is his parents, as well, too.

0:56:390:56:41

I feel a little bit better now that I finally got to see him and got to say my goodbye

0:56:430:56:47

-and everything, and...

-He was so excited, he said it,

0:56:470:56:50

"You know, I haven't seen..." he

0:56:500:56:51

said, "I can't think of the last time I saw a child."

0:56:510:56:54

Yeah, he just, he said that too.

0:56:540:56:55

Are you going to get to see some family?

0:56:550:56:58

Yeah. I got to meet my grandfather and see my grandma for the first

0:56:580:57:00

time in over 18 years.

0:57:000:57:03

You remember that when you left, you were, you were like this.

0:57:040:57:07

Yeah.

0:57:070:57:08

-Yeah.

-And I didn't even realise that I came here before and he was, like,

0:57:080:57:13

it was the same room and, you know...

0:57:130:57:16

Most people, they say they've changed and, like, their actions

0:57:160:57:19

show different. And it's, like...

0:57:190:57:22

..with him, I, I do believe that he really has changed.

0:57:220:57:25

He really has. I mean, he's, he's a really outstanding human being.

0:57:250:57:29

We have pleadings filed in lots of different courts, uh,

0:57:420:57:45

both state and federal, and now the stays of execution is filed, and

0:57:450:57:49

you know, we're hoping for the best.

0:57:490:57:52

It's an uphill battle, but we're hoping for the best.

0:57:520:57:54

What do you think his chances are?

0:57:540:57:57

I don't think they're so great.

0:57:570:57:59

I'll do my very best.

0:58:060:58:08

Society has everyone believing that the ultimate justice you can get is

0:58:530:58:58

death. When you get that, you've got the ultimate justice for your loved

0:58:580:59:01

one, for your family, for, you know, and it's just not true.

0:59:010:59:05

That's not justice.

0:59:050:59:07

So, everyone just believes that, they believe a lie.

0:59:070:59:11

ANNOUNCER: We are here once again tonight, this is our fourth time at Cummins

0:59:280:59:31

since a week ago Monday.

0:59:310:59:34

Uh, we have seen three executions so far, one more scheduled for tonight.

0:59:340:59:38

We have just seen the witnesses arrive for the scheduled execution

0:59:380:59:42

of Kenneth Williams, who murdered Cecil Boren back in 1999.

0:59:420:59:45

His judgment day arrives today.

0:59:450:59:48

There was another inmate, who was recommended for clemency, and because

0:59:480:59:51

he won that recommendation of clemency, his execution was put off.

0:59:510:59:54

Earlier this afternoon, Kenneth Williams received his last meal.

1:00:151:00:21

In lieu of a last meal he requested, uh, communion.

1:00:211:00:26

And communion was administered to him by his spiritual advisor.

1:00:261:00:30

PHONE RINGS

1:02:361:02:37

ANNOUNCER: Breaking news -

1:03:051:03:06

we have now learned that Kenneth Williams is the latest Arkansas

1:03:061:03:10

death row inmate to be put to death by the state for his capital crimes.

1:03:101:03:14

-He was pronounced dead.

-That's right.

1:03:141:03:16

The first injection happened at 10.52pm.

1:03:161:03:19

11:05 being the time of death here.

1:03:191:03:22

The following is the last statement of Kenneth Williams.

1:03:361:03:39

"To Kayla Greenwood and the whole Greenwood family,

1:03:411:03:45

"the acts of grace,

1:03:451:03:48

"forgiveness and mercy you demonstrated toward the person who

1:03:481:03:54

"had taken so much from you, by bringing to me in prison my own baby

1:03:541:03:59

"and grandchild,

1:03:591:04:01

"right before my scheduled execution...

1:04:011:04:03

"No rapist, murderer, terrorist, butcher, barbarian,

1:04:051:04:11

"not even old Beelzebub himself could withstand such a blast of

1:04:111:04:17

"glorious light and continue to walk in darkness.

1:04:171:04:22

"The next words will be spoken in my native language tongue..."

1:04:221:04:28

At which point, he spoke in what would be commonly described as

1:04:281:04:33

in tongues.

1:04:331:04:35

Also, uh, I do want to make you all aware that

1:04:401:04:45

I was informed that at approximately

1:04:451:04:49

10.55pm Kenneth Williams did, uh,

1:04:491:04:54

shake for approximately ten seconds.

1:04:541:04:57

The media witnesses are en route back to the centre.

1:05:021:05:05

Had the consciousness check been performed when he shook?

1:05:051:05:08

That's the extent of the information I have at this time.

1:05:081:05:11

-ANNOUNCER:

-At 10:55, Kenneth Williams did, quote, "shake".

1:05:161:05:20

This does seem to be a bit out of the ordinary compared to, to some

1:05:201:05:24

of the other, uh, executions.

1:05:241:05:26

We will wait to see exactly what happens there.

1:05:261:05:29

Uh, since we're all on a deadline I'll start with what we all have

1:05:321:05:35

in our notes as, "Coughing, convulsing, lurching, jerking with sound."

1:05:351:05:41

Even with the microphone turned off,

1:05:411:05:43

we were actually able to hear

1:05:431:05:46

things in the witness area from the execution chamber.

1:05:461:05:50

The execution started at 10:52 and at the time, uh,

1:05:501:05:53

Mr Williams was speaking in tongues,

1:05:531:05:55

his body lurched forward as though... We were trying to describe it,

1:05:551:06:00

it was, like, if you're on a bumpy road and you hit a bump and your

1:06:001:06:03

body gets thrown forward, er...

1:06:031:06:05

It happened about 15 times in quick succession, then it slowed,

1:06:051:06:09

and then there are other times in our notes, where it appeared as

1:06:091:06:13

though he was gasping.

1:06:131:06:14

Uh, but it was clear he was, um, striving for breath.

1:06:141:06:21

At 11:05, the coroner pronounced him dead.

1:06:211:06:24

Having never witnessed an execution like this,

1:06:241:06:29

to me, it looked like there was something wrong.

1:06:291:06:32

Like it wasn't going smoothly.

1:06:321:06:34

With the chest moving up and down, with the body movements,

1:06:361:06:40

with the sound of his voice gasping for air,

1:06:401:06:43

trying to breathe, it just didn't seem like that...

1:06:431:06:46

That was not at all what I expected.

1:06:461:06:49

Uh, the next individual to address the pool will be

1:07:001:07:03

J R Davis, Communications Director for Governor Asa Hutchinson.

1:07:031:07:06

Um, first of all, most of you, if you haven't received a statement

1:07:101:07:14

from the governor, I can get that to you.

1:07:141:07:16

It's a night of reflection for Arkansans,

1:07:161:07:19

who should have a renewed faith in the judicial system in our state

1:07:191:07:25

because that justice was carried out tonight.

1:07:251:07:28

The other day, you described the executions so far as, "flawless".

1:07:281:07:31

Do you think that description still fits, given what was described with

1:07:311:07:35

-this execution?

-I do.

1:07:351:07:37

Basically, it's an involuntary muscular reaction,

1:07:371:07:39

in the medical community it's widely known that that is an effect

1:07:391:07:43

of Midazolam

1:07:431:07:45

and no-one here has stated tonight that it looked like he was

1:07:451:07:48

in pain of any sort.

1:07:481:07:49

JR, are you concerned at all that he was potentially still conscious

1:07:501:07:53

if there was heavy breathing when a paralytic was administered at 10:57?

1:07:531:07:57

-I'm not.

-I'm sorry, we just, we just heard vivid descriptions of an

1:07:571:08:02

execution process that, that just by the words used,

1:08:021:08:06

seemed anything but smooth and I, I just don't understand on what

1:08:061:08:12

basis your, your statements draw any kind of credibility.

1:08:121:08:16

I mean, all the words used to describe this execution make it

1:08:161:08:19

sound like it didn't go smoothly.

1:08:191:08:21

So, I don't know about the governor, but are you standing here listening to this description,

1:08:211:08:25

troubled at all by what we were just told tonight?

1:08:251:08:27

Again, I've told you, the governor is always, he always follows up on

1:08:271:08:30

what happens but look, it's again,

1:08:301:08:32

according to the medical community, this is not an unusual thing.

1:08:321:08:35

So, would you like to come up here and testify to it?

1:08:351:08:39

I'm answering your question to the best of my ability.

1:08:391:08:41

Anything else?

1:08:461:08:47

All right.

1:08:501:08:52

All right, thank you.

1:09:391:09:41

We can tell you that for now, this process,

1:10:001:10:03

upon which the State of Arkansas embarked a few months ago,

1:10:031:10:07

to execute eight inmates over the course of two weeks, is now over,

1:10:071:10:10

and the final count stands at four men executed, four men's lives spared

1:10:101:10:15

at least for now, and certainly into the foreseeable future, as the

1:10:151:10:19

State of Arkansas wrestles with how to move forward with

1:10:191:10:22

capital punishment in the state.

1:10:221:10:25

Kenneth Williams was the fourth inmate out of eight whose scheduled

1:10:331:10:37

executions were carried out. Now the ACLU are requesting an investigation

1:10:371:10:41

into whether Williams was tortured by the state before he was killed,

1:10:411:10:45

questioning the state's, quote,

1:10:451:10:47

"rush to use up its supply of Midazolam before it expired."

1:10:471:10:51

Good morning to you, everyone. I did want to reflect, for a moment,

1:11:001:11:05

about the last two weeks.

1:11:051:11:08

Uh, that after decades of waiting, the families of the victims were

1:11:081:11:13

finally provided the justice that they were promised,

1:11:131:11:16

and they also saw that our system of laws have meaning.

1:11:161:11:20

And that last part is important as well.

1:11:201:11:24

What exactly happened with Kenneth Williams' execution last night?

1:11:241:11:28

Do you stand by your spokesman's statement that these executions were

1:11:281:11:32

-flawless?

-I went through what happened last night, with

1:11:321:11:36

Director Kelley. This ten seconds of...

1:11:361:11:40

..movement on his part, uh,

1:11:411:11:43

was what was described as coughing without noise.

1:11:431:11:50

The director told you he was coughing without noise?

1:11:501:11:52

That's in direct contrast to what the media witnesses have described.

1:11:521:11:55

Are you saying those witnesses were wrong?

1:11:551:11:57

Uh, you, whenever... I've been a lawyer a long time and if you have

1:11:571:12:02

five witnesses, uh, you're going to have five different descriptions.

1:12:021:12:06

Director Kelley was the closest one to observe it and that's what she

1:12:061:12:10

relayed to me, and that's what I accept.

1:12:101:12:12

When would you feel comfortable having the state carry out executions again?

1:12:121:12:15

You know, I really don't even want to think about it right now,

1:12:151:12:18

quite frankly!

1:12:181:12:19

But you know, if the Attorney General sends over names, we will start

1:12:191:12:24

the process over again, in terms of dates, in terms of access to drugs.

1:12:241:12:29

There's a number of others that, uh,

1:12:291:12:32

are still waiting for justice and the verdicts of the jury have not

1:12:321:12:38

been carried out. So, we will do that responsibility when it comes.

1:12:381:12:41

All right, thank you very much.

1:12:431:12:44

-Thanks for your patience.

-Thank you so much for seeing us.

1:13:541:13:57

-Thank you.

-That's very kind of you. It was very nice to meet you and

1:13:571:14:00

I hear you're running for re-election, is that right?

1:14:001:14:02

-I am, I am.

-Do you feel as though this experience will help with that?

1:14:021:14:06

You know, er...

1:14:061:14:08

HE CHUCKLES

1:14:141:14:16

Right.

1:14:161:14:19

OK.

1:14:191:14:21

All right, lovely to meet you.

1:14:211:14:22

Take care, thank you very much.

1:14:221:14:24

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