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The British justice system is the envy of the world. | 0:00:02 | 0:00:05 | |
But in the past, mistakes have been made. | 0:00:05 | 0:00:08 | |
Between the year 1900 and the year 1964, | 0:00:08 | 0:00:11 | |
approximately 800 people were hanged in the United Kingdom. | 0:00:11 | 0:00:15 | |
Many of those desperately protested their innocence. | 0:00:15 | 0:00:19 | |
Some of these long-standing convictions could be | 0:00:19 | 0:00:22 | |
a miscarriage of justice. | 0:00:22 | 0:00:24 | |
She's received most of the blows in this position, | 0:00:24 | 0:00:27 | |
once she's already bleeding. | 0:00:27 | 0:00:28 | |
In this series, a living relative will attempt to clear their family name... | 0:00:29 | 0:00:33 | |
I would dearly love for him to be innocent. | 0:00:33 | 0:00:36 | |
..searching for new evidence... | 0:00:36 | 0:00:38 | |
I can make the .32 fire both calibres. | 0:00:38 | 0:00:42 | |
..with help from two of the UK's leading barristers, | 0:00:44 | 0:00:48 | |
one for the defence... | 0:00:48 | 0:00:49 | |
This is a very worrying case. I think the evidence is very suspect. | 0:00:49 | 0:00:54 | |
..and one for the prosecution. | 0:00:54 | 0:00:56 | |
I'm still of the view that this was a cogent case of murder, | 0:00:56 | 0:01:00 | |
committed during the course of a robbery. | 0:01:00 | 0:01:03 | |
They are on a mission to solve the mystery, | 0:01:03 | 0:01:06 | |
submitting their findings to a Crown Court judge. | 0:01:06 | 0:01:10 | |
There is a real risk that there has been a miscarriage of justice here. | 0:01:10 | 0:01:15 | |
I will look again at the evidence | 0:01:15 | 0:01:16 | |
in the light of the arguments that you both have put before me. | 0:01:16 | 0:01:20 | |
Can this modern investigation rewrite history? | 0:01:20 | 0:01:25 | |
In Newcastle in 1910, there occurred a case stranger than fiction, | 0:01:33 | 0:01:38 | |
with all the hallmarks of an Agatha Christie mystery - | 0:01:38 | 0:01:41 | |
a whodunnit murder on a train. | 0:01:41 | 0:01:44 | |
On Friday the 18th of March | 0:01:44 | 0:01:46 | |
a colliery cashier called John Nisbet | 0:01:46 | 0:01:48 | |
boarded the 10:27 train from Newcastle Central Station. | 0:01:48 | 0:01:52 | |
The 44-year-old was carrying £370 in wages | 0:01:54 | 0:01:58 | |
for the workers at a local coal mine. | 0:01:58 | 0:02:00 | |
A delivery he never made. | 0:02:00 | 0:02:03 | |
GUNSHOTS | 0:02:03 | 0:02:06 | |
Nisbet was brutally murdered for the cash he carried, | 0:02:06 | 0:02:09 | |
shot in the head five times. | 0:02:09 | 0:02:11 | |
His body was found stuffed beneath a carriage seat by the porter | 0:02:11 | 0:02:15 | |
at Alnmouth station at the end of the line. | 0:02:15 | 0:02:17 | |
When police searched the crime scene, | 0:02:17 | 0:02:20 | |
they found two different calibre of bullets, | 0:02:20 | 0:02:23 | |
leading officers to initially suspect two assailants, | 0:02:23 | 0:02:27 | |
until several key witnesses led police to a local bookmaker | 0:02:27 | 0:02:31 | |
called John Dickman, | 0:02:31 | 0:02:33 | |
who was subsequently arrested, charged, and convicted of murder. | 0:02:33 | 0:02:37 | |
Despite staunchly protesting his innocence, | 0:02:37 | 0:02:40 | |
on the 10th of August 1910 Dickman was executed. | 0:02:40 | 0:02:44 | |
The last man to be hanged at Newcastle Prison. | 0:02:44 | 0:02:47 | |
I've known for nearly 40 years | 0:02:51 | 0:02:54 | |
that my great-grandfather was hung for murder. | 0:02:54 | 0:02:58 | |
Now, over 100 years later, | 0:03:00 | 0:03:02 | |
Dickman's great-grandson, Rowan, | 0:03:02 | 0:03:04 | |
wants to know if he was executed for a crime he did not commit. | 0:03:04 | 0:03:08 | |
It must be an horrendous journey to the gallows. | 0:03:09 | 0:03:14 | |
To know that you're going to lose your life. | 0:03:14 | 0:03:17 | |
I have an open mind as to whether he did it or not. | 0:03:17 | 0:03:20 | |
A former clerk turned professional gambler with a love of horse racing, | 0:03:20 | 0:03:24 | |
Dickman operated as a wheeler dealer | 0:03:24 | 0:03:26 | |
on the fringes of the mining industry. | 0:03:26 | 0:03:28 | |
I do know he's a person that lived, I think, very much on the edge. | 0:03:28 | 0:03:33 | |
But that doesn't make him a murderer, of course. | 0:03:33 | 0:03:36 | |
To unearth the truth about his great-grandfather, | 0:03:36 | 0:03:39 | |
Rowan will be helped by two of the country's best legal minds. | 0:03:39 | 0:03:43 | |
Jeremy Dein QC is a top defence barrister, | 0:03:43 | 0:03:46 | |
specialising in murder cases. | 0:03:46 | 0:03:48 | |
Sasha Wass QC has put away some of the country's most dangerous | 0:03:49 | 0:03:53 | |
and devious criminals. | 0:03:53 | 0:03:55 | |
Before they start their investigation, | 0:03:55 | 0:03:57 | |
the barristers have asked to meet with Rowan. | 0:03:57 | 0:04:00 | |
Rowan, how nice to meet you. I'm Sasha. | 0:04:00 | 0:04:03 | |
Examining a case that's over 100 years old... | 0:04:03 | 0:04:05 | |
-Nice to meet you. I'm Jeremy. -..will be no easy task. | 0:04:05 | 0:04:09 | |
My role is to explore the truth of the case with a view to | 0:04:09 | 0:04:14 | |
having the case reopened. | 0:04:14 | 0:04:17 | |
Rowan, I will be looking at the evidence with a prosecution slant. | 0:04:17 | 0:04:22 | |
That doesn't mean that I'm trying to uphold this conviction at all costs, | 0:04:22 | 0:04:26 | |
far from it. | 0:04:26 | 0:04:27 | |
And just so you know, I'm going to be keeping a completely open mind, | 0:04:27 | 0:04:31 | |
-all right? -Absolutely. | 0:04:31 | 0:04:33 | |
-All right. -What we have to do is, we have to find some new evidence, | 0:04:33 | 0:04:36 | |
or some new argument, that hasn't previously been put before a court. | 0:04:36 | 0:04:40 | |
That's not always easy. | 0:04:40 | 0:04:42 | |
There is a chance of catastrophic evidence | 0:04:42 | 0:04:46 | |
indicating that he is guilty. Now, are you prepared for that? | 0:04:46 | 0:04:51 | |
-I believe I am. -Good. | 0:04:51 | 0:04:52 | |
I would dearly love for him to be innocent, of course. | 0:04:52 | 0:04:55 | |
That's my heart. | 0:04:55 | 0:04:57 | |
My head tells me that it may be a slightly more difficult process. | 0:04:57 | 0:05:00 | |
Jeremy and Sasha will examine five crucial areas of the case... | 0:05:03 | 0:05:08 | |
..before submitting their findings to a senior judge | 0:05:12 | 0:05:14 | |
who could recommend the case for review, | 0:05:14 | 0:05:17 | |
or confirm the original guilty verdict. | 0:05:17 | 0:05:20 | |
But first, the barristers need to | 0:05:21 | 0:05:23 | |
get to grips with the facts of the murder. | 0:05:23 | 0:05:25 | |
So, Jeremy, this was the murder of John Nisbet, | 0:05:25 | 0:05:30 | |
who was carrying £370, | 0:05:30 | 0:05:33 | |
nine shillings and sixpence in wages when he boarded the train from | 0:05:33 | 0:05:38 | |
Newcastle to Alnmouth. | 0:05:38 | 0:05:40 | |
And the prosecution case was that he was killed for the money. | 0:05:40 | 0:05:44 | |
Mr Nisbet was shot five times, | 0:05:44 | 0:05:47 | |
and John Dickman alighted the train at Morpeth. | 0:05:47 | 0:05:52 | |
Well, Sasha, there are a lot of ifs and buts. | 0:05:52 | 0:05:54 | |
We definitely need to scrutinise the identification evidence. | 0:05:54 | 0:05:58 | |
Very strange things went on. | 0:05:58 | 0:06:00 | |
Also, two calibre of bullets were fired at John Nisbet | 0:06:00 | 0:06:05 | |
and the police suspected that there were two gunmen. | 0:06:05 | 0:06:10 | |
It's only once John Dickman came into the frame | 0:06:10 | 0:06:12 | |
that they decided on one. | 0:06:12 | 0:06:14 | |
So I certainly don't accept, at this stage, | 0:06:14 | 0:06:17 | |
that this is anything like an open and shut case. | 0:06:17 | 0:06:20 | |
Whilst Jeremy and Sasha delve into the evidence, | 0:06:24 | 0:06:27 | |
Rowan is travelling to Newcastle | 0:06:27 | 0:06:28 | |
to learn more about his great-grandfather | 0:06:28 | 0:06:31 | |
and the crime for which he hanged. | 0:06:31 | 0:06:33 | |
I would like to know more about two areas. | 0:06:33 | 0:06:37 | |
One is around John, and indeed the evidence that was presented, | 0:06:37 | 0:06:40 | |
how the case was carried out. | 0:06:40 | 0:06:42 | |
But also about my family background, which I know nothing about. | 0:06:42 | 0:06:46 | |
Dickman had much in common with Nisbet, | 0:06:47 | 0:06:50 | |
the man he was convicted of killing. | 0:06:50 | 0:06:52 | |
Both were born in Newcastle upon Tyne, close in age, | 0:06:53 | 0:06:56 | |
and happily married with two children. | 0:06:56 | 0:06:59 | |
They belonged to the educated lower-middle-class, | 0:06:59 | 0:07:02 | |
finding employment in Newcastle's thriving commercial centre. | 0:07:02 | 0:07:06 | |
They knew each other a little, too, | 0:07:06 | 0:07:08 | |
as regulars on the railway that connected the growing city to the | 0:07:08 | 0:07:12 | |
collieries that fuelled its prosperity. | 0:07:12 | 0:07:14 | |
On the 18th of March 1910, | 0:07:17 | 0:07:19 | |
both boarded the 10:27 from Newcastle to Alnmouth. | 0:07:19 | 0:07:23 | |
Only one of them got off the train alive. | 0:07:23 | 0:07:26 | |
Rowan wants to start by retracing the steps his great-grandfather took | 0:07:28 | 0:07:32 | |
-on that fateful day. -I've just arrived at the station, ironically, | 0:07:32 | 0:07:36 | |
almost at the time John Dickman got on the train for Morpeth. | 0:07:36 | 0:07:41 | |
The prosecution's case relied entirely on the testimony | 0:07:41 | 0:07:45 | |
of several key witnesses. Taken together, | 0:07:45 | 0:07:48 | |
their evidence puts Dickman's head in the hangman's noose. | 0:07:48 | 0:07:51 | |
I'm holding here a photograph of Newcastle station, taken in 1910. | 0:07:52 | 0:07:57 | |
If we look carefully we can just see | 0:07:57 | 0:07:59 | |
platform five directly behind us. | 0:07:59 | 0:08:02 | |
This photograph shows us exactly what it would have been like | 0:08:02 | 0:08:06 | |
when John Dickman and John Nisbet walked onto the forecourt. | 0:08:06 | 0:08:09 | |
On platform five, an artist called Wilson Hepple, | 0:08:09 | 0:08:13 | |
who had known Dickman for 20 years, saw him with a companion, | 0:08:13 | 0:08:18 | |
about to board near the front of the train. | 0:08:18 | 0:08:21 | |
Just behind us is where Wilson Hepple would have seen | 0:08:21 | 0:08:25 | |
both man making their way to the train. | 0:08:25 | 0:08:28 | |
I'm going to now make a journey | 0:08:28 | 0:08:30 | |
based on a number of witness statements, | 0:08:30 | 0:08:33 | |
which I'm not so sure are as sound as they could be. | 0:08:33 | 0:08:36 | |
The first stop was Heaton station, | 0:08:38 | 0:08:40 | |
where John Nisbet lived with his wife, Cicely. | 0:08:40 | 0:08:43 | |
She would make a habit of standing on the platform to greet her husband | 0:08:43 | 0:08:47 | |
as he passed. | 0:08:47 | 0:08:49 | |
It was here that Cicely Nisbet, John Nisbet's wife, | 0:08:49 | 0:08:53 | |
actually saw John in the carriage. | 0:08:53 | 0:08:57 | |
She is quite adamant there was one other man in there with him. | 0:08:57 | 0:09:00 | |
Of course, the question is whether that was John Dickman. | 0:09:00 | 0:09:04 | |
Three days after the murder, | 0:09:04 | 0:09:07 | |
Dickman volunteered a statement to the police, | 0:09:07 | 0:09:09 | |
explaining his movements on the day. | 0:09:09 | 0:09:12 | |
Far from ruling him out as a suspect, | 0:09:12 | 0:09:15 | |
the police used the information to put him in the frame. | 0:09:15 | 0:09:18 | |
So, Jeremy, what John Dickman told the police was this - | 0:09:18 | 0:09:22 | |
he said the reason he was on the 10:27 train from Newcastle is that | 0:09:22 | 0:09:27 | |
he was going to meet someone at the Dovecot Colliery | 0:09:27 | 0:09:31 | |
about a business proposition, | 0:09:31 | 0:09:33 | |
and that would have involved him getting off at Stannington station. | 0:09:33 | 0:09:37 | |
In his statement, | 0:09:39 | 0:09:40 | |
Dickman admitted he had seen Nisbet briefly at Newcastle station, | 0:09:40 | 0:09:45 | |
before buying a newspaper | 0:09:45 | 0:09:46 | |
and getting in a compartment at the rear of the train. | 0:09:46 | 0:09:50 | |
Mr Dickman didn't get off the train at Stannington station, | 0:09:50 | 0:09:54 | |
because he was engrossed in reading the newspaper. | 0:09:54 | 0:09:57 | |
At Stannington station, the deceased, John Nisbet, | 0:09:57 | 0:10:02 | |
was seen alive and well. | 0:10:02 | 0:10:04 | |
What we do know is that by Morpeth, | 0:10:04 | 0:10:07 | |
John Nisbet was dead. | 0:10:07 | 0:10:10 | |
We also know that Dickman must have alighted the train. We know that | 0:10:10 | 0:10:15 | |
because he buys an excess fare ticket from a ticket inspector | 0:10:15 | 0:10:19 | |
at Morpeth station. | 0:10:19 | 0:10:21 | |
The ticket collector at Morpeth | 0:10:21 | 0:10:22 | |
recalled a man paying an excess fare. | 0:10:22 | 0:10:25 | |
Dickman admitted that man was him and, having missed his stop, | 0:10:25 | 0:10:28 | |
he decided to walk back to his meeting at the Dovecot mine. | 0:10:28 | 0:10:32 | |
And that's where his account becomes rather strange. | 0:10:32 | 0:10:36 | |
He told police he decided to walk down this road here, | 0:10:36 | 0:10:40 | |
but was taken ill where the X is marked on the map. | 0:10:40 | 0:10:44 | |
Feeling ill, Dickman darted into a field to relieve himself. | 0:10:46 | 0:10:50 | |
In John's statement, he maintains | 0:10:50 | 0:10:53 | |
that he rested up for close to an hour, | 0:10:53 | 0:10:57 | |
and realising that he couldn't | 0:10:57 | 0:10:58 | |
really go any further, made his way back to Morpeth. | 0:10:58 | 0:11:01 | |
When he got back to Morpeth, he met two people he knew, | 0:11:01 | 0:11:03 | |
Elliott and Sanderson, | 0:11:03 | 0:11:05 | |
and they can corroborate the time that he got back there. | 0:11:05 | 0:11:08 | |
Elliott and Sanderson confirmed that shortly after 1:30pm | 0:11:08 | 0:11:12 | |
they had a brief conversation with Dickman, | 0:11:12 | 0:11:14 | |
who seemed to them of perfectly normal demeanour. | 0:11:14 | 0:11:16 | |
Despite this alibi, | 0:11:16 | 0:11:18 | |
almost two hours had passed since Dickman got off the train, | 0:11:18 | 0:11:22 | |
much of which was unaccounted for. | 0:11:22 | 0:11:25 | |
In terms of John's alibi, | 0:11:25 | 0:11:26 | |
I do recognise it as a weak point in the story. | 0:11:26 | 0:11:30 | |
I want to believe that he was ill, and that indeed he had to rest up. | 0:11:30 | 0:11:36 | |
But also, I can understand there's no-one to corroborate that. | 0:11:36 | 0:11:40 | |
This part of his evidence still has that question mark above it. | 0:11:40 | 0:11:43 | |
So there's this period where nobody really knows what he's doing... | 0:11:46 | 0:11:50 | |
Sasha is reviewing evidence that could account for the hole | 0:11:50 | 0:11:53 | |
in Dickman's alibi, but does it prove Dickman was the killer? | 0:11:53 | 0:11:57 | |
What the prosecution said at trial is that what Mr Dickman was in fact | 0:11:57 | 0:12:02 | |
doing was not walking down to Clifton, | 0:12:02 | 0:12:05 | |
but was walking towards Hepscott, here, where in a disused mineshaft, | 0:12:05 | 0:12:11 | |
in June - so several months later - | 0:12:11 | 0:12:15 | |
was found the bag which contained the money | 0:12:15 | 0:12:18 | |
which was the subject of the robbery of John Nisbet on the train. | 0:12:18 | 0:12:25 | |
Nisbet's moneybag was found three months after the murder | 0:12:25 | 0:12:29 | |
at the bottom of a disused mineshaft | 0:12:29 | 0:12:31 | |
less than a mile and a half from Morpeth. At the time, | 0:12:31 | 0:12:35 | |
the prosecution used this discovery | 0:12:35 | 0:12:37 | |
to suggest Dickman was not lying ill in a field, | 0:12:37 | 0:12:41 | |
but was in fact disposing of the stolen money bag. | 0:12:41 | 0:12:45 | |
But Jeremy has found a problem with this evidence. | 0:12:45 | 0:12:48 | |
We need to keep in mind | 0:12:48 | 0:12:49 | |
that John Dickman was in custody from the 21st of March | 0:12:49 | 0:12:53 | |
and the 9th of June, when it was found. | 0:12:53 | 0:12:57 | |
The mine had been searched on the 17th of March, | 0:12:57 | 0:12:59 | |
the day before the incident, the 29th of April, and the 18th of May. | 0:12:59 | 0:13:05 | |
And, in fact, the bag wasn't found there until the 9th of June. | 0:13:05 | 0:13:11 | |
The reality is, | 0:13:11 | 0:13:14 | |
there's not a shred of evidence that John Dickman dumped that bag. | 0:13:14 | 0:13:19 | |
A more likely course of events | 0:13:19 | 0:13:21 | |
is that someone else killed John Nisbet. | 0:13:21 | 0:13:26 | |
So Jeremy believes the moneybag discovery indicates that the police | 0:13:26 | 0:13:30 | |
should have been looking for other suspects. | 0:13:30 | 0:13:33 | |
This is a reconstruction | 0:13:34 | 0:13:36 | |
of the 10:27 train from Newcastle to Alnmouth. | 0:13:36 | 0:13:40 | |
The engine was at this end, | 0:13:40 | 0:13:43 | |
and this entire mapped out area | 0:13:43 | 0:13:45 | |
is the first carriage. | 0:13:45 | 0:13:48 | |
The barristers now want to turn their attention to the evidence | 0:13:48 | 0:13:51 | |
given by the key witnesses that put Dickman in the frame. | 0:13:51 | 0:13:55 | |
Does their testimony prove that Dickman was the killer? | 0:13:55 | 0:13:59 | |
The first important thing is at Newcastle | 0:13:59 | 0:14:02 | |
a witness called Bruce gets onto this first compartment | 0:14:02 | 0:14:06 | |
nearest the engine, and he's with another man, | 0:14:06 | 0:14:09 | |
whose identity is not important for the purposes of this case. | 0:14:09 | 0:14:13 | |
On the second compartment, nearest the engine, | 0:14:13 | 0:14:17 | |
two other witnesses who gave evidence, Mr Hall and Mr Spink, | 0:14:17 | 0:14:22 | |
they get on there. | 0:14:22 | 0:14:24 | |
Now, a witness at Newcastle station, | 0:14:24 | 0:14:28 | |
called Wilson Hepple, saw John Dickman | 0:14:28 | 0:14:32 | |
in the company of another man. | 0:14:32 | 0:14:34 | |
One of the two put his hand on the door of one of the compartments. | 0:14:34 | 0:14:40 | |
So for the sake of what I'm going to explain to you, | 0:14:40 | 0:14:44 | |
Mr Dickman gets onto the train with the other man. | 0:14:44 | 0:14:48 | |
As the train arrives at Heaton station, Nisbet's wife, Cicely, | 0:14:48 | 0:14:53 | |
was on the platform to greet him. | 0:14:53 | 0:14:54 | |
He leans out of the window and he waves at her. | 0:14:56 | 0:14:59 | |
But Cicely also sees another man in that compartment, wearing a coat, | 0:14:59 | 0:15:05 | |
wearing a hat with the collar pulled up, | 0:15:05 | 0:15:08 | |
and that man is actually sitting facing the engine, | 0:15:08 | 0:15:11 | |
so he's facing this way. | 0:15:11 | 0:15:13 | |
The train pulls off from Heaton, | 0:15:13 | 0:15:16 | |
and the next station of importance is Stannington. | 0:15:16 | 0:15:20 | |
Now, at Stannington, Mr Hall | 0:15:20 | 0:15:25 | |
and Mr Spink get off the train. | 0:15:25 | 0:15:29 | |
Mr Hall knows Mr Nisbet | 0:15:30 | 0:15:34 | |
and they acknowledge each other. | 0:15:34 | 0:15:37 | |
Mr Bruce, in the first compartment, | 0:15:37 | 0:15:39 | |
witnesses Hall nodding before the train pulls away. | 0:15:39 | 0:15:43 | |
The train then stops at Morpeth, | 0:15:44 | 0:15:47 | |
where the next key witness is waiting to board. | 0:15:47 | 0:15:50 | |
Mr Grant walks past this first carriage | 0:15:50 | 0:15:54 | |
of third-class compartments, | 0:15:54 | 0:15:56 | |
and he particularly noticed that there was nobody, | 0:15:56 | 0:16:00 | |
or he believed that there was nobody in this carriage, | 0:16:00 | 0:16:03 | |
which suggests that Mr Dickman must have got off the train - | 0:16:03 | 0:16:08 | |
and, remember, Mr Dickman DID get off the train at Morpeth - | 0:16:08 | 0:16:12 | |
and that Mr Nisbet was lying on the ground, | 0:16:12 | 0:16:16 | |
which is why he wasn't visible at window height. | 0:16:16 | 0:16:19 | |
Crucially, the witness, Grant, the big question in his case is, | 0:16:19 | 0:16:24 | |
how did John Dickman leave the carriage, | 0:16:24 | 0:16:27 | |
leaving John Nisbet on the floor behind him, | 0:16:27 | 0:16:30 | |
if Grant didn't see anyone exit the carriage? | 0:16:30 | 0:16:33 | |
Because he doesn't claim that he did, so how did John Dickman get out | 0:16:33 | 0:16:36 | |
of that carriage if his evidence is correct? | 0:16:36 | 0:16:40 | |
Could the killer have got off the train a different way? | 0:16:40 | 0:16:43 | |
Rowan has come to Tanfield Heritage Railway, near Newcastle. | 0:16:48 | 0:16:53 | |
He's hoping that travelling back to his great-grandfather's era.. | 0:16:55 | 0:16:59 | |
WHISTLE TOOTS | 0:16:59 | 0:17:01 | |
..with historian Alan Thompson can shed some light on the incident. | 0:17:01 | 0:17:06 | |
So this is exactly the same type of carriage that my grandfather, | 0:17:07 | 0:17:12 | |
-John Dickman, and John Nisbet... -Yes. -..would have travelled in? | 0:17:12 | 0:17:15 | |
Presumably, you'd have to hold your luggage on your lap? | 0:17:15 | 0:17:18 | |
Your lap or you could put it under the seat. | 0:17:18 | 0:17:20 | |
But I think wages, he would have his hands on it all the time. | 0:17:20 | 0:17:25 | |
You wouldn't dare let it go. | 0:17:25 | 0:17:27 | |
No. John Nisbet was shot five times. | 0:17:27 | 0:17:29 | |
It makes you wonder whether anybody else would have actually heard it. | 0:17:29 | 0:17:33 | |
We're close to the engine, so you'd have the noise of the engine, | 0:17:33 | 0:17:36 | |
the rear joints, bong-bong, bong-bong, | 0:17:36 | 0:17:38 | |
you're getting that all the time. | 0:17:38 | 0:17:40 | |
-You've got solid walls. -Yes. | 0:17:40 | 0:17:43 | |
And you're getting the vibration that can be quite noisy. | 0:17:43 | 0:17:46 | |
Could the noises of the train, masking the gunshots, | 0:17:52 | 0:17:55 | |
explain why nobody reported the crime? | 0:17:55 | 0:17:58 | |
I've noticed the carriages don't have a corridor - | 0:17:58 | 0:18:01 | |
was that common on these trains? | 0:18:01 | 0:18:03 | |
Yes, corridors, as such, came in much later, | 0:18:03 | 0:18:07 | |
probably after the First World War. | 0:18:07 | 0:18:10 | |
-So you were stuck in here between stations? -Yes. | 0:18:10 | 0:18:14 | |
The design of the train allowed no way to enter or exit the compartment | 0:18:17 | 0:18:21 | |
between stations. It was unlikely anyone could have jumped off, | 0:18:21 | 0:18:25 | |
as they would leave the door flapping open, | 0:18:25 | 0:18:27 | |
almost certainly alerting the guard. | 0:18:27 | 0:18:30 | |
So, it remains a mystery | 0:18:31 | 0:18:33 | |
as to how the killer could have got away unnoticed. | 0:18:33 | 0:18:37 | |
In London, the barristers are trying to solve another dilemma. | 0:18:40 | 0:18:44 | |
Did Dickman have a genuine motive for murder? | 0:18:45 | 0:18:49 | |
Jeremy, this was a murder committed during the course of a robbery. | 0:18:49 | 0:18:54 | |
And we know that £270, nine shillings and sixpence went missing. | 0:18:54 | 0:18:59 | |
There's also evidence that John Dickman was short of money | 0:18:59 | 0:19:03 | |
in the year leading up to this murder. | 0:19:03 | 0:19:05 | |
At the trial, the prosecution tried to prove that Dickman was in urgent | 0:19:05 | 0:19:09 | |
need of money, presenting evidence that he had taken out two loans | 0:19:09 | 0:19:13 | |
for £20, and his bank accounts were empty. | 0:19:13 | 0:19:16 | |
There was some evidence that John Dickman had money troubles, | 0:19:16 | 0:19:19 | |
-of a sort. -Yeah, but, Sasha... -Do you agree with that? -Well... | 0:19:19 | 0:19:23 | |
I'm not sure I'd agree he had many problems. | 0:19:24 | 0:19:27 | |
He seems to have needed to borrow money on more than one occasion. | 0:19:27 | 0:19:31 | |
However, the reason why his accounts had little money in | 0:19:31 | 0:19:36 | |
is because he was a bookie | 0:19:36 | 0:19:38 | |
and he used cash in connection with that work. | 0:19:38 | 0:19:41 | |
So just because the prosecution swooped on that | 0:19:41 | 0:19:46 | |
and labelled those money lending scenarios as motive | 0:19:46 | 0:19:51 | |
doesn't mean that John Dickman turned his hand to gruesome killing. | 0:19:51 | 0:19:56 | |
So I'm afraid I just don't see that there was a respectable motive | 0:19:56 | 0:20:00 | |
put before the jury. | 0:20:00 | 0:20:02 | |
So Jeremy is not convinced Dickman had a clear motive, | 0:20:02 | 0:20:06 | |
and has raised doubts about the prosecution's circumstantial case. | 0:20:06 | 0:20:10 | |
We've now looked at various issues in this case. | 0:20:10 | 0:20:14 | |
Do you accept that there was no direct evidence against John Dickman | 0:20:14 | 0:20:19 | |
and that there are, you know, | 0:20:19 | 0:20:22 | |
a significant number of difficult questions | 0:20:22 | 0:20:25 | |
for the prosecution to answer? | 0:20:25 | 0:20:27 | |
I'm still of the view that this was a cogent case of murder | 0:20:27 | 0:20:31 | |
against John Dickman. However, | 0:20:31 | 0:20:34 | |
I am concerned about the ammunition in the case. | 0:20:34 | 0:20:38 | |
Two different sorts of ammunition. | 0:20:38 | 0:20:40 | |
And I would find it helpful to speak to a ballistics expert. | 0:20:40 | 0:20:44 | |
The murder weapon was never found, but two different calibre of bullet | 0:20:48 | 0:20:52 | |
were retrieved from the victim's body. | 0:20:52 | 0:20:54 | |
So what does this tell us about the crime? | 0:20:54 | 0:20:57 | |
-Hi, Innes, how are you? -Innes Knight is a gunsmith | 0:20:57 | 0:21:00 | |
with an expert knowledge of historical firearms. | 0:21:00 | 0:21:03 | |
The gun we think was used | 0:21:03 | 0:21:07 | |
was a .32 revolver. | 0:21:07 | 0:21:09 | |
Our reasons for thinking this is | 0:21:09 | 0:21:12 | |
there is no physical way that a .32 round | 0:21:12 | 0:21:17 | |
would be able to be fired from a .25 pistol. | 0:21:17 | 0:21:20 | |
It is physically impossible. | 0:21:20 | 0:21:22 | |
It is, however, possible for a .25 bullet, with enough ingenuity, | 0:21:22 | 0:21:27 | |
to be fired from a .32 revolver. | 0:21:27 | 0:21:30 | |
Can you actually load that bullet in that gun? | 0:21:30 | 0:21:34 | |
-You would need a little bit of ingenuity. -Right. | 0:21:34 | 0:21:37 | |
So this is a fairly typical .32 revolver. | 0:21:37 | 0:21:41 | |
Now, if I take .25, | 0:21:41 | 0:21:45 | |
it will drop clean through. | 0:21:45 | 0:21:47 | |
And so it requires to be adapted before it can be shot from? | 0:21:47 | 0:21:51 | |
I have done some experiments, | 0:21:51 | 0:21:53 | |
and by wrapping the bullet in paper or tape, | 0:21:53 | 0:21:57 | |
or leather, I can make the .32 fire both calibres. | 0:21:57 | 0:22:03 | |
Nisbet was shot five times... | 0:22:03 | 0:22:06 | |
GUNSHOTS | 0:22:06 | 0:22:07 | |
..but three of the shots using the .25 bullet | 0:22:07 | 0:22:10 | |
caused only superficial wounds. | 0:22:10 | 0:22:13 | |
The fact that that .25 came out at low enough velocity | 0:22:13 | 0:22:18 | |
not to penetrate the skull | 0:22:18 | 0:22:20 | |
-means that it was not fired in its correct barrel. -Yeah. | 0:22:20 | 0:22:24 | |
If I fired that in the large barrel, | 0:22:24 | 0:22:26 | |
that bullet would come out at a much lower velocity. | 0:22:26 | 0:22:29 | |
And so one gunman with one gun, firing both calibre of bullets? | 0:22:29 | 0:22:35 | |
With the evidence I've been presented, | 0:22:35 | 0:22:37 | |
it is most likely one gun. It was probably by luck that those rounds | 0:22:37 | 0:22:41 | |
went off, rather than judgment. But it is possible. | 0:22:41 | 0:22:45 | |
So what might happen is that if someone was to wrap a bullet | 0:22:45 | 0:22:48 | |
in the way you've said, it's conceivable that, in fact, | 0:22:48 | 0:22:51 | |
-the bullet wouldn't fire? -Yes, it is. -Pot luck. -Yeah. | 0:22:51 | 0:22:56 | |
So, the gunsmith favours one gunman. | 0:22:57 | 0:23:00 | |
A theory that the prosecution successfully pursued in 1910. | 0:23:00 | 0:23:05 | |
Rowan wants to know what the public made of the evidence, | 0:23:09 | 0:23:12 | |
reported in its entirety by the local press | 0:23:12 | 0:23:15 | |
in the lead-up to the trial. | 0:23:15 | 0:23:17 | |
He's come to Newcastle Library to search the archives. | 0:23:19 | 0:23:22 | |
I found the actual article at the start of the trial. | 0:23:26 | 0:23:30 | |
It's actually taking us through the different eyewitnesses. | 0:23:30 | 0:23:33 | |
What it does say - it was quite a sensational trial. | 0:23:33 | 0:23:37 | |
The trial of John Dickman opened on the 4th of July 1910, | 0:23:37 | 0:23:41 | |
at Moot Hall in Newcastle, | 0:23:41 | 0:23:43 | |
where a vast crowd packed the area outside. | 0:23:43 | 0:23:46 | |
It was a well publicised trial. | 0:23:47 | 0:23:49 | |
The public had become largely involved. | 0:23:49 | 0:23:51 | |
The papers were very much involved. | 0:23:51 | 0:23:53 | |
A lot of people, their minds may have already been made up. | 0:23:53 | 0:23:56 | |
Could it have been a fair trial? | 0:23:56 | 0:23:57 | |
Dickman would face the jury | 0:23:58 | 0:24:00 | |
in the home town of the man he was accused of killing | 0:24:00 | 0:24:03 | |
and where public opinion was strongly set against him. | 0:24:03 | 0:24:06 | |
Looking at this, and seeing that the case was quite biased | 0:24:06 | 0:24:09 | |
in the news respects, it makes me angry, to say the least. | 0:24:09 | 0:24:13 | |
I think if I was reading these articles at the time, | 0:24:14 | 0:24:17 | |
I would probably believe that he was guilty. | 0:24:17 | 0:24:19 | |
Jeremy has his own concerns about the case | 0:24:22 | 0:24:25 | |
so, he's asked Home Office Pathologist Stuart Hamilton | 0:24:25 | 0:24:28 | |
to look at the crime scene evidence. | 0:24:28 | 0:24:30 | |
Stuart, you're going to take us through the various scenarios | 0:24:30 | 0:24:34 | |
as to how John Nisbet might have been killed. | 0:24:34 | 0:24:37 | |
Tell us about the scenes here. | 0:24:37 | 0:24:39 | |
So, what we have here is a perfect reproduction of the carriage | 0:24:39 | 0:24:44 | |
that Mr Nisbet was sat in. | 0:24:44 | 0:24:45 | |
The evidence is that he was shot five times. | 0:24:48 | 0:24:52 | |
We have two different types of bullet. | 0:24:52 | 0:24:55 | |
I can only conclude, if it is one shooter, | 0:24:55 | 0:24:58 | |
that there is a shot with the lead, | 0:24:58 | 0:25:01 | |
that comes across the face, | 0:25:01 | 0:25:04 | |
and stuns Mr Nisbet. | 0:25:04 | 0:25:06 | |
He then goes to the ground, | 0:25:06 | 0:25:08 | |
there are then more discharges to the back of the head, | 0:25:08 | 0:25:12 | |
and there is the lethal shot to the brainstem. | 0:25:12 | 0:25:16 | |
The evidence that was given in the trial | 0:25:16 | 0:25:19 | |
was that the bullet wound to this forehead | 0:25:19 | 0:25:23 | |
was fired while Mr Nisbet was prostrate. | 0:25:23 | 0:25:26 | |
You can see, from the dimensions of this carriage, | 0:25:26 | 0:25:30 | |
to actually get into a position, somehow, | 0:25:30 | 0:25:34 | |
where that could be fired seems incredibly difficult | 0:25:34 | 0:25:38 | |
and somewhat unlikely to me. | 0:25:38 | 0:25:40 | |
There just isn't room here to do it. | 0:25:40 | 0:25:44 | |
The second scenario is that we have two assailants. | 0:25:44 | 0:25:48 | |
Two men, two guns. | 0:25:48 | 0:25:50 | |
One man gets up, first shot is discharged into his head. | 0:25:51 | 0:25:55 | |
He then goes to the ground. | 0:25:55 | 0:25:57 | |
The man with the nickel-plated bullets fires twice, | 0:25:58 | 0:26:03 | |
the other assailant shoots twice. | 0:26:03 | 0:26:06 | |
One of those shots hits his brainstem. | 0:26:06 | 0:26:09 | |
Mr Nisbet is doing nothing, ever again. | 0:26:09 | 0:26:13 | |
In the end, which of those scenarios do you believe | 0:26:13 | 0:26:16 | |
is the most likely context in which John Nisbet was killed? | 0:26:16 | 0:26:21 | |
I think two people in control of a firearm | 0:26:21 | 0:26:24 | |
makes far more sense than one person with two. | 0:26:24 | 0:26:28 | |
And I think the likelihood of it being one weapon | 0:26:28 | 0:26:31 | |
-seems considerably less likely. -GUNSHOTS | 0:26:31 | 0:26:35 | |
So, the pathology evidence points to two gunmen, | 0:26:35 | 0:26:38 | |
contradicting the opinion of the gunsmith. | 0:26:38 | 0:26:41 | |
We're still left with different ammunition in one gun, | 0:26:42 | 0:26:46 | |
or the two-gunmen theory. | 0:26:46 | 0:26:48 | |
And given what the ballistics expert has said, | 0:26:48 | 0:26:51 | |
I'm in favour of one gun, one gunman. | 0:26:51 | 0:26:54 | |
Stuart Hamilton favours two gunmen. | 0:26:54 | 0:26:58 | |
If correct, then, there is a fundamental question mark | 0:26:58 | 0:27:02 | |
over whether John Dickman was rightly convicted. | 0:27:02 | 0:27:05 | |
Rowan has spent hours searching the archive for newspaper articles | 0:27:08 | 0:27:11 | |
about the case. | 0:27:11 | 0:27:14 | |
Much to his surprise, he's found a collection of personal accounts | 0:27:14 | 0:27:17 | |
written by John Dickman's wife, Annie. | 0:27:17 | 0:27:20 | |
It's the first time I've seen an article from my great-grandmother. | 0:27:21 | 0:27:26 | |
Funnily enough, it sent shivers up my spine | 0:27:26 | 0:27:29 | |
when I actually saw her signature at the bottom of the page. | 0:27:29 | 0:27:33 | |
Annie defended her husband right up until his execution, | 0:27:33 | 0:27:37 | |
allowing a number of personal letters written by Dickman | 0:27:37 | 0:27:40 | |
from his cell to be published. | 0:27:40 | 0:27:42 | |
And this one makes me a little bit angry - | 0:27:43 | 0:27:46 | |
"Dickman's last letters, | 0:27:46 | 0:27:47 | |
"pathetic references to his wife and children." | 0:27:47 | 0:27:50 | |
I'm angry because the letters are far from pathetic. | 0:27:52 | 0:27:56 | |
When you read them it's about a man coming to terms with his death, | 0:27:56 | 0:28:01 | |
and what will become of his family. | 0:28:01 | 0:28:03 | |
"The last letter from a condemned man to his wife | 0:28:05 | 0:28:07 | |
"was received by Mrs Dickman on Monday. | 0:28:07 | 0:28:10 | |
"In it, her husband wrote... | 0:28:10 | 0:28:12 | |
" 'There is something still keeps telling me | 0:28:13 | 0:28:15 | |
" 'that everything will be made clear some day, | 0:28:15 | 0:28:18 | |
" 'when it is too late to benefit me. | 0:28:18 | 0:28:21 | |
" 'I can only repeat that I am innocent.' " | 0:28:21 | 0:28:23 | |
There is a man here that seemed to have loved his family | 0:28:25 | 0:28:28 | |
and right to his last letter, he's saying, | 0:28:28 | 0:28:30 | |
maybe one day his innocence will be found. | 0:28:30 | 0:28:34 | |
When I see that, I do hope that at the end of it... | 0:28:36 | 0:28:40 | |
..there will be enough answers for us to be able to say | 0:28:42 | 0:28:45 | |
he was innocent. | 0:28:45 | 0:28:48 | |
Maybe that day's close at hand, I would hope. Yeah. | 0:28:53 | 0:28:57 | |
HE TAKES A DEEP BREATH | 0:28:57 | 0:28:59 | |
Despite being handed a death sentence, | 0:29:09 | 0:29:11 | |
Dickman still had one last hope of proving he was wrongly convicted. | 0:29:11 | 0:29:15 | |
On the 22nd of July, 1910, | 0:29:16 | 0:29:18 | |
his case was to be heard by the Court of Appeal. | 0:29:18 | 0:29:22 | |
Earlier that month, the Home Office | 0:29:22 | 0:29:24 | |
had received disturbing news of serious police malpractice, | 0:29:24 | 0:29:28 | |
relating to an identity parade involving two key witnesses, | 0:29:28 | 0:29:32 | |
Spink and Hall. | 0:29:32 | 0:29:34 | |
Hall, when taken to the police station for the purposes | 0:29:34 | 0:29:37 | |
of seeing if he could identify Dickman, | 0:29:37 | 0:29:40 | |
"was first invited by somebody, | 0:29:40 | 0:29:43 | |
"possibly on behalf of the police, to look through a window, | 0:29:43 | 0:29:48 | |
"and on doing so, sitting alone, | 0:29:48 | 0:29:50 | |
"the person | 0:29:50 | 0:29:52 | |
"who was afterwards convicted was there." | 0:29:52 | 0:29:56 | |
I personally find it staggering | 0:29:56 | 0:29:59 | |
that John Dickman was convicted, in part, | 0:29:59 | 0:30:03 | |
on the identification evidence of somebody | 0:30:03 | 0:30:07 | |
who had been asked to have a look at him sitting on a chair, | 0:30:07 | 0:30:10 | |
in isolation, before the parade. | 0:30:10 | 0:30:12 | |
That evidence, in modern times, would never have gone before a jury. | 0:30:12 | 0:30:16 | |
Jeremy is still hoping to find a new legal angle | 0:30:16 | 0:30:19 | |
on which to argue that the conviction was unsafe. | 0:30:19 | 0:30:22 | |
How did it come about, that Hall | 0:30:23 | 0:30:26 | |
was shown John Dickman sitting on a... | 0:30:26 | 0:30:29 | |
No, let me finish, you dismiss this type of... | 0:30:29 | 0:30:32 | |
-No, I don't! -Hang on, let me finish. You dismiss this kind of conduct, | 0:30:32 | 0:30:35 | |
as if this is a matter of pure irrelevance, | 0:30:35 | 0:30:38 | |
but if, in fact, the police were prepared | 0:30:38 | 0:30:42 | |
to put John Dickman on display, | 0:30:42 | 0:30:45 | |
how do we know that there weren't more shenanigans going on? | 0:30:45 | 0:30:48 | |
Why do we assume that the only piece of misconduct | 0:30:48 | 0:30:50 | |
was the one that was discovered? | 0:30:50 | 0:30:52 | |
We don't know what went on. | 0:30:52 | 0:30:54 | |
This is 1910, | 0:30:54 | 0:30:56 | |
and I am not as comfortable with mere assertion by these witnesses | 0:30:56 | 0:31:00 | |
-as you appear to be. -Can I just clarify the matter, Jeremy? | 0:31:00 | 0:31:03 | |
I'm not comfortable with what happened | 0:31:03 | 0:31:05 | |
in terms of the identification procedure. | 0:31:05 | 0:31:08 | |
It was completely improper conduct. | 0:31:08 | 0:31:11 | |
It doesn't alter the conclusion of the Lord Chief Justice | 0:31:11 | 0:31:15 | |
that he would not have hesitated | 0:31:15 | 0:31:18 | |
to quash this conviction had Hall been the only witness. | 0:31:18 | 0:31:22 | |
We both agree that he's a tainted witness. | 0:31:22 | 0:31:26 | |
The Lord Chief Justice has made it plain | 0:31:26 | 0:31:28 | |
that there was a wealth of other evidence putting John Dickman... | 0:31:28 | 0:31:31 | |
-What... -..and John Nisbet... -We could go on forever. | 0:31:31 | 0:31:34 | |
-..in the same train compartment. -We could go on forever, Sasha, | 0:31:34 | 0:31:37 | |
but we can't get beyond what's here in black and white before us, | 0:31:37 | 0:31:40 | |
-that's the problem... -That is the problem. | 0:31:40 | 0:31:42 | |
And I see it, and I read it rather more sceptically than you do. | 0:31:42 | 0:31:46 | |
That's not a criticism of you, I just do. | 0:31:46 | 0:31:49 | |
With time running out on the barristers' investigation, | 0:31:53 | 0:31:56 | |
Rowan has gone to Newcastle Cathedral for a momentous meeting. | 0:31:56 | 0:32:00 | |
80 years ago, John Dickman's | 0:32:01 | 0:32:03 | |
son Henry, Rowan's grandfather, | 0:32:03 | 0:32:05 | |
abandoned his wife and son | 0:32:05 | 0:32:07 | |
to start a new family across town. | 0:32:07 | 0:32:10 | |
They are my relatives, | 0:32:10 | 0:32:11 | |
they're my blood relatives. | 0:32:11 | 0:32:13 | |
And I think I would be remiss in not trying to contact them. | 0:32:13 | 0:32:17 | |
Waiting to greet Rowan is his half-uncle John and cousin Beezy, | 0:32:17 | 0:32:21 | |
relatives from a side of the family he's never met. | 0:32:21 | 0:32:24 | |
I'm feeling very nervous, actually. | 0:32:24 | 0:32:26 | |
I think it's probably more nervous than anything else I've done. | 0:32:26 | 0:32:30 | |
-Hello! -John? | 0:32:30 | 0:32:32 | |
-How are you, fella? -Pleased to meet you. -And you. | 0:32:32 | 0:32:36 | |
-Lovely to meet you. -This is Beezy. -Hello. | 0:32:36 | 0:32:39 | |
Rowan, yeah. A bit nervous... | 0:32:39 | 0:32:41 | |
-So am I. -..and a bit emotional. -So am I. Don't worry about it. | 0:32:41 | 0:32:44 | |
I wish my mum could be here and my Auntie Pat. | 0:32:44 | 0:32:46 | |
-Yeah, yeah. -I know I've been very remiss. | 0:32:46 | 0:32:49 | |
I kind of tucked it on the back burner... | 0:32:49 | 0:32:51 | |
-Me, too. -..and Dad was always so, sort of angry and unhappy. | 0:32:51 | 0:32:56 | |
-Yeah, he would write to me. -He would never talk about it. | 0:32:56 | 0:32:59 | |
-Shall we sit down, guys? -Please... | 0:32:59 | 0:33:02 | |
They have 100 years of broken family history to discuss, | 0:33:02 | 0:33:05 | |
starting with the marriage of John Dickman to Annie, | 0:33:05 | 0:33:09 | |
right here in Newcastle Cathedral. | 0:33:09 | 0:33:11 | |
Here we are in that same building | 0:33:11 | 0:33:13 | |
where they began their marriage and their life. | 0:33:13 | 0:33:16 | |
Hopefully, come round full circle. | 0:33:16 | 0:33:19 | |
-Yes. -Full circle, which is, actually, yeah... | 0:33:19 | 0:33:21 | |
That, finally, the family can get back together. | 0:33:21 | 0:33:24 | |
Yes, yes, hopefully. | 0:33:24 | 0:33:27 | |
Whilst the Dickman family become acquainted, | 0:33:27 | 0:33:29 | |
Jeremy is still searching for the new evidence he needs | 0:33:29 | 0:33:32 | |
to argue before the judge that the case should be reviewed. | 0:33:32 | 0:33:36 | |
He's hoping crime writer John Eddleston can help. | 0:33:38 | 0:33:42 | |
So, John, tell us about how you developed an interest | 0:33:43 | 0:33:46 | |
in the case of John Dickman, | 0:33:46 | 0:33:48 | |
and how you've really become an expert on the case. | 0:33:48 | 0:33:51 | |
Well, my wife and I researched every single execution | 0:33:51 | 0:33:54 | |
in the 20th century. This case, in particular, was very contentious | 0:33:54 | 0:33:58 | |
and having spent three or four years looking at it, | 0:33:58 | 0:34:01 | |
I've come up with a completely different scenario, | 0:34:01 | 0:34:04 | |
which means that John Alexander Dickman | 0:34:04 | 0:34:06 | |
-was almost certainly innocent of the crime. -Right. | 0:34:06 | 0:34:10 | |
We know the train left at 10.27 from Newcastle Central. | 0:34:12 | 0:34:16 | |
Now, we do know that Nesbit travelled in that compartment. | 0:34:16 | 0:34:19 | |
That's absolutely certain, cos that's where his body was found. | 0:34:19 | 0:34:22 | |
We know, from the evidence of his wife, | 0:34:22 | 0:34:24 | |
there was a companion sitting directly opposite to him. | 0:34:24 | 0:34:27 | |
The only other person we're certain of is Andrew Bruce, | 0:34:31 | 0:34:34 | |
and Bruce is sitting right in this corner. | 0:34:34 | 0:34:37 | |
Hall was in that particular carriage. | 0:34:37 | 0:34:40 | |
We know that, at Newcastle, on his own evidence, | 0:34:41 | 0:34:44 | |
Hall was looking out of the window | 0:34:44 | 0:34:46 | |
at the platform to see who was coming down. | 0:34:46 | 0:34:48 | |
He was also looking out of the window at Heaton. | 0:34:48 | 0:34:51 | |
A curious thing to do for someone who'd made the same journey | 0:34:51 | 0:34:54 | |
many times over the years, with Spink. | 0:34:54 | 0:34:58 | |
We are led to believe that in the same carriage, is Spink. | 0:34:58 | 0:35:01 | |
-but for the time being, can we leave him out? -Yeah. | 0:35:01 | 0:35:04 | |
My scenario is this. | 0:35:04 | 0:35:07 | |
Hall was indeed looking out of the window, | 0:35:07 | 0:35:10 | |
but not to see who was coming, | 0:35:10 | 0:35:12 | |
to make sure that no-one else came into that compartment. | 0:35:12 | 0:35:16 | |
The unknown companion with Nesbit, | 0:35:16 | 0:35:18 | |
is not an unknown companion, it's John Williams Spink. | 0:35:18 | 0:35:22 | |
In this scenario, | 0:35:22 | 0:35:24 | |
the mystery man witnessed in the compartment with Nesbit | 0:35:24 | 0:35:28 | |
was not Dickman, it was Spink. | 0:35:28 | 0:35:30 | |
One of the key witnesses and the companion of Hall. | 0:35:30 | 0:35:34 | |
Waiting inconspicuously for his partner in crime to join him. | 0:35:34 | 0:35:39 | |
When they reached the station before Stannington, which is Plessey, | 0:35:39 | 0:35:43 | |
Hall gets out, and gets into this carriage. | 0:35:43 | 0:35:46 | |
There are now three people in that carriage. | 0:35:46 | 0:35:48 | |
He was about to shake hands with Hall, | 0:35:48 | 0:35:50 | |
when Hall and Spink both opened fire. | 0:35:50 | 0:35:53 | |
This is now an empty carriage. | 0:35:53 | 0:35:55 | |
When the train arrives at Stannington, | 0:35:55 | 0:35:58 | |
they both get out through the door, | 0:35:58 | 0:36:00 | |
and stand about here, | 0:36:00 | 0:36:02 | |
between the two carriages. | 0:36:02 | 0:36:04 | |
So, Nesbit's dead before we get to Stannington? | 0:36:04 | 0:36:07 | |
Nesbitt's dead between Plessey and Stannington. | 0:36:07 | 0:36:10 | |
The body's under the seat, Hall and Spink are on the platform, | 0:36:10 | 0:36:13 | |
the train pulls out, | 0:36:13 | 0:36:14 | |
and Bruce sees them nod to an empty carriage. | 0:36:14 | 0:36:17 | |
-To a dead man. -To a dead man. | 0:36:17 | 0:36:19 | |
When the train arrives at Morpeth, | 0:36:19 | 0:36:21 | |
John Grant is waiting here where the engine is. | 0:36:21 | 0:36:25 | |
He wants to find a smoking compartment. | 0:36:25 | 0:36:28 | |
As he walks along, he sees that compartment is occupied. | 0:36:28 | 0:36:32 | |
He walks past, that's a non-smoker, that's no use to him. | 0:36:32 | 0:36:35 | |
And when he walks past the carriage were Nesbit's body is now lying, | 0:36:35 | 0:36:39 | |
he sees and swears that it is empty. | 0:36:39 | 0:36:42 | |
If Dickman is the killer, | 0:36:42 | 0:36:44 | |
he would've seen Dickman get off the train at Morpeth. | 0:36:44 | 0:36:47 | |
Dickman did indeed get off the train at Morpeth, | 0:36:47 | 0:36:50 | |
he paid an excess fare, but he got out from way back down there. | 0:36:50 | 0:36:54 | |
If that case is true, | 0:36:54 | 0:36:55 | |
Hall and Spink are the killers. | 0:36:55 | 0:36:58 | |
Could this be the breakthrough that Jeremy needs? | 0:37:02 | 0:37:05 | |
Is it enough to convince a judge that John Dickman | 0:37:05 | 0:37:08 | |
was innocent all along? | 0:37:08 | 0:37:10 | |
It seems to me that his hypothesis works. | 0:37:12 | 0:37:15 | |
The most obvious scenario here is two gunmen. | 0:37:15 | 0:37:19 | |
The case against Hall and Spinks | 0:37:19 | 0:37:21 | |
is equally strong as it was against John Dickman. | 0:37:21 | 0:37:24 | |
The difference between them is that John Dickman was hanged | 0:37:24 | 0:37:28 | |
and Hall and Spinks weren't. | 0:37:28 | 0:37:30 | |
The hypothesis put forward by John Eddleston | 0:37:30 | 0:37:33 | |
was fascinating and ingenious. | 0:37:33 | 0:37:36 | |
But it really was based on two premises. | 0:37:36 | 0:37:40 | |
Firstly, that the witness, Grant, who was at Morpeth, | 0:37:40 | 0:37:43 | |
categorically did not see anyone getting off the carriage at Morpeth. | 0:37:43 | 0:37:49 | |
I'm not sure that is Mr Grant's evidence. | 0:37:49 | 0:37:53 | |
Rather, he didn't see someone, didn't particularly notice someone. | 0:37:53 | 0:37:57 | |
And the second premise is that | 0:37:57 | 0:37:59 | |
there were necessarily two guns involved in this murder. | 0:37:59 | 0:38:03 | |
And again, I'm not sure that is the evidence | 0:38:03 | 0:38:05 | |
from the firearms expert in this case. | 0:38:05 | 0:38:09 | |
I'm afraid his contribution | 0:38:09 | 0:38:12 | |
has not caused me to believe | 0:38:12 | 0:38:14 | |
that this was a miscarriage of justice. | 0:38:14 | 0:38:17 | |
For decades, the Dickmans have coped with secrets and hurt | 0:38:20 | 0:38:24 | |
as a result of their family history. | 0:38:24 | 0:38:27 | |
Finally, two factions of the family have come together | 0:38:27 | 0:38:30 | |
to share their past | 0:38:30 | 0:38:33 | |
and Rowan and John have unfinished business in Newcastle. | 0:38:33 | 0:38:36 | |
-So we're here. -Maybe if we cut just up here, | 0:38:36 | 0:38:40 | |
that will take us up to the corner. | 0:38:40 | 0:38:42 | |
-Yeah? -That would do, yes, yes. Try that, shall we? -Yeah, sure. | 0:38:42 | 0:38:45 | |
They've come to Jesmond Cemetery | 0:38:45 | 0:38:47 | |
to search for John Dickman's unmarked grave. | 0:38:47 | 0:38:50 | |
-There's an open patch just here. -Yes, that's right. | 0:38:52 | 0:38:55 | |
Maybe if he's looking on, | 0:38:55 | 0:38:57 | |
maybe we can just say to him, "Well, we tried." | 0:38:57 | 0:38:59 | |
This is the best we can do for you. | 0:38:59 | 0:39:02 | |
-And not forgotten. -Not forgotten. | 0:39:02 | 0:39:04 | |
Hopefully, in time, we can clear his name. | 0:39:04 | 0:39:06 | |
It's those last few words, isn't it? Perhaps one day... | 0:39:06 | 0:39:09 | |
The truth will come out. | 0:39:09 | 0:39:11 | |
Well, maybe we will do that. | 0:39:11 | 0:39:13 | |
Well, hopefully, we will and I'm glad that we actually met up. | 0:39:13 | 0:39:17 | |
-I know that I've got an extended family. -It's great, isn't it? -Yeah. | 0:39:17 | 0:39:20 | |
And in one sense, that's brought us together, hasn't it? | 0:39:20 | 0:39:23 | |
-Yeah, it has, really, yeah. -Yeah. | 0:39:23 | 0:39:25 | |
Hey, John. | 0:39:25 | 0:39:27 | |
-And you, mate. -Come here. -Yeah. | 0:39:27 | 0:39:29 | |
Well, hopefully he's looking on. | 0:39:31 | 0:39:33 | |
Yeah, I hope he is. I really do. | 0:39:33 | 0:39:36 | |
Judgment day has finally arrived for Rowan. | 0:39:45 | 0:39:48 | |
He's returned to London and will soon find out if the barristers | 0:39:48 | 0:39:51 | |
have uncovered the evidence they need. | 0:39:51 | 0:39:53 | |
I really am hopeful that some of the evidence there is strong enough | 0:39:53 | 0:39:56 | |
to convince the judge that we can relook at this case, | 0:39:56 | 0:40:00 | |
because I truly believe that should happen. | 0:40:00 | 0:40:02 | |
Jeremy and Sasha have spent days scrutinising the facts, | 0:40:02 | 0:40:06 | |
and considering their legal arguments. | 0:40:06 | 0:40:09 | |
Hello, Sasha, lovely to see you. | 0:40:09 | 0:40:11 | |
-Hi, Rowan. -Nice to see you again. | 0:40:11 | 0:40:12 | |
-How are you? -I'm fine, thank you. | 0:40:12 | 0:40:14 | |
-Looking forward to today, yeah. -Right. -A little bit nervous. | 0:40:14 | 0:40:17 | |
-Do you want to say anything at this stage? -No, I think, the best thing | 0:40:17 | 0:40:20 | |
is if we update you when we're all sitting round | 0:40:20 | 0:40:23 | |
with our papers open on the table in front of us. | 0:40:23 | 0:40:25 | |
So, shall we go on through? | 0:40:25 | 0:40:27 | |
-I am looking forward to it. -All right. OK. -Thank you. | 0:40:27 | 0:40:29 | |
For Rowan, this could be the start of the legal process | 0:40:30 | 0:40:34 | |
to exonerate his great-grandfather. | 0:40:34 | 0:40:36 | |
Or it could be the end of any hope | 0:40:36 | 0:40:38 | |
that the conviction can be overturned. | 0:40:38 | 0:40:41 | |
-Come and sit down. -Thank you. | 0:40:43 | 0:40:46 | |
What I want to do now is really update you on what's been happening. | 0:40:46 | 0:40:51 | |
Rowan, you can see that there isn't a judge here. | 0:40:51 | 0:40:54 | |
a judge won't be coming to this room today | 0:40:54 | 0:40:56 | |
and what I'm going to do is explain why not. | 0:40:56 | 0:40:59 | |
We have explored as many as the features of this case as we can, | 0:40:59 | 0:41:05 | |
but it seems to me | 0:41:05 | 0:41:07 | |
that there is no real basis | 0:41:07 | 0:41:10 | |
for saying that this was a miscarriage of justice. | 0:41:10 | 0:41:14 | |
So, I am sorry to be the bearer of such bad news. | 0:41:14 | 0:41:19 | |
The burden lay with me to identify new material. | 0:41:19 | 0:41:25 | |
I have significant concerns about the safety of this conviction, | 0:41:25 | 0:41:30 | |
but try though we have, | 0:41:30 | 0:41:34 | |
no new material has emerged | 0:41:34 | 0:41:36 | |
sufficient to argue before a judge | 0:41:36 | 0:41:39 | |
that the conviction is unsafe, | 0:41:39 | 0:41:41 | |
which means that we simply cannot progress the case before a judge. | 0:41:41 | 0:41:45 | |
I'm desperately sorry | 0:41:46 | 0:41:47 | |
that we haven't been able to take it forward. | 0:41:47 | 0:41:50 | |
I think there are issues, without a doubt, that I think make it unsafe. | 0:41:50 | 0:41:54 | |
I do think there are issues about the testimonies that were given, | 0:41:54 | 0:41:58 | |
I am concerned that the identification parade | 0:41:58 | 0:42:01 | |
wasn't as as professionally carried out as possible... | 0:42:01 | 0:42:04 | |
-Absolutely. -Yeah, absolutely. -I have, for the last 50 years, | 0:42:04 | 0:42:08 | |
accepted that my great-grandfather may well have been guilty to a point | 0:42:08 | 0:42:12 | |
where I have very strong doubts now. | 0:42:12 | 0:42:14 | |
But I appreciate that doubts isn't enough to take any form of appeal. | 0:42:14 | 0:42:20 | |
But, yeah, a bit more emotional than I thought I would be. | 0:42:20 | 0:42:23 | |
We just want to wish you the very best of luck | 0:42:23 | 0:42:27 | |
in taking this forward in the future, | 0:42:27 | 0:42:30 | |
which having met you, we are confident you will. | 0:42:30 | 0:42:33 | |
Oh, certainly. And, I must say, we will. | 0:42:33 | 0:42:36 | |
I'm pretty sure I can speak for the family. | 0:42:36 | 0:42:39 | |
I feel very disappointed and far more emotional than I thought | 0:42:41 | 0:42:45 | |
-I ever would do. -All right. | 0:42:45 | 0:42:47 | |
However, through my journey, | 0:42:47 | 0:42:50 | |
I've gained a family | 0:42:50 | 0:42:51 | |
and I'm getting to know them. | 0:42:51 | 0:42:55 | |
And we are of one mind that we're going to follow this further. | 0:42:55 | 0:42:59 | |
Apart from the disappointment, I've gained so much from this. | 0:42:59 | 0:43:03 |