Barristers Sasha Wass and Jeremy Dein scrutinise a violent burglary and murder from 1931. The murder weapon could be key to the conviction and execution of Henry Seymour.
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Mystery and My Family. | 0:00:00 | 0:00:00 | |
The British justice system
is the envy of the world. | 0:00:03 | 0:00:05 | |
But in the past,
mistakes have been made. | 0:00:06 | 0:00:09 | |
Between the 1900 and the year 1964, | 0:00:09 | 0:00:12 | |
approximately 800 people were hanged
in the United Kingdom. | 0:00:12 | 0:00:15 | |
Many of those desperately protested
their innocence. | 0:00:17 | 0:00:20 | |
Some of these long-standing
convictions | 0:00:20 | 0:00:23 | |
could be a miscarriage of justice. | 0:00:23 | 0:00:25 | |
She has received most of the blows
in this position | 0:00:25 | 0:00:28 | |
once she's already bleeding. | 0:00:28 | 0:00:30 | |
In this series, a living relative | 0:00:30 | 0:00:31 | |
will attempt to clear
their family name. | 0:00:31 | 0:00:34 | |
My father died thinking
that his father was a murderer. | 0:00:34 | 0:00:37 | |
That must have been terrible. | 0:00:37 | 0:00:38 | |
Searching for new evidence... | 0:00:38 | 0:00:40 | |
The findings on it are really
quite instructive. | 0:00:40 | 0:00:43 | |
There was no blood inside
the hammer. | 0:00:43 | 0:00:45 | |
..with help from two of the UK's
leading barristers, | 0:00:46 | 0:00:50 | |
one for the defence... | 0:00:50 | 0:00:51 | |
This is a very worrying case. | 0:00:51 | 0:00:54 | |
I think the evidence
is very suspect. | 0:00:54 | 0:00:56 | |
..and one for the prosecution. | 0:00:56 | 0:00:58 | |
I am still of the view that this was
a cogent case of murder | 0:00:58 | 0:01:02 | |
committed during the course
of a robbery. | 0:01:02 | 0:01:04 | |
They are on a mission
to solve the mystery, | 0:01:04 | 0:01:08 | |
submitting their findings to a
Crown Court judge. | 0:01:08 | 0:01:11 | |
There is a real risk that there has
been a miscarriage of justice here. | 0:01:11 | 0:01:16 | |
I will look again at the evidence
in the light of the arguments | 0:01:16 | 0:01:19 | |
that you both have put before me. | 0:01:19 | 0:01:22 | |
Can this modern investigation... | 0:01:22 | 0:01:23 | |
..rewrite history? | 0:01:24 | 0:01:26 | |
Oxford, 1931. | 0:01:34 | 0:01:37 | |
This idyllic university city
is shaken | 0:01:37 | 0:01:40 | |
when it's revealed there has
been a brutal murder. | 0:01:40 | 0:01:42 | |
Mrs Annie Louisa Kempson
had been killed in her own home. | 0:01:46 | 0:01:49 | |
In what appeared to be
a violent burglary, | 0:01:50 | 0:01:53 | |
the 54-year-old widow was attacked
with a blunt instrument... | 0:01:53 | 0:01:56 | |
..and stabbed in the neck. | 0:01:57 | 0:01:59 | |
A desperate manhunt
for the killer began. | 0:02:01 | 0:02:03 | |
Under the scrutiny of press
and public, | 0:02:05 | 0:02:07 | |
the police initially
had no suspects. | 0:02:07 | 0:02:10 | |
Interviewing hundreds of locals, | 0:02:10 | 0:02:13 | |
investigators eventually learn of a
door-to-door salesman by the name of | 0:02:13 | 0:02:17 | |
Henry Seymour. | 0:02:17 | 0:02:19 | |
Seymour was in Oxford at the time
of the murder | 0:02:19 | 0:02:22 | |
and he knew the victim - Mrs Kempson
had been one of his customers. | 0:02:22 | 0:02:27 | |
A criminal records check proved
a major breakthrough. | 0:02:27 | 0:02:30 | |
Henry Seymour was a career criminal. | 0:02:31 | 0:02:34 | |
He was arrested and charged
with murder. | 0:02:35 | 0:02:37 | |
87 years later, | 0:02:41 | 0:02:43 | |
Henry's grandson Tony has discovered | 0:02:43 | 0:02:45 | |
this dark chapter
in his family's past. | 0:02:45 | 0:02:48 | |
Henry Seymour was
my paternal grandfather. | 0:02:48 | 0:02:51 | |
My father had always been told
by his mother | 0:02:51 | 0:02:54 | |
that his father had died
in a car crash | 0:02:54 | 0:02:58 | |
when my father was
about ten years old. | 0:02:58 | 0:03:01 | |
After my grandmother died, my father
went and researched his family tree | 0:03:01 | 0:03:07 | |
and found out then
that his father had been hung. | 0:03:07 | 0:03:11 | |
My grandmother had hidden it
completely from my father. | 0:03:11 | 0:03:15 | |
These are the few photos I have got | 0:03:15 | 0:03:17 | |
of my father as a child
and his mother. | 0:03:17 | 0:03:20 | |
There are no photographs
of Henry anywhere. Nothing. | 0:03:20 | 0:03:24 | |
After the court case,
my grandmother just hid it all. | 0:03:24 | 0:03:29 | |
It was just a blank. | 0:03:29 | 0:03:31 | |
She destroyed all evidence. | 0:03:31 | 0:03:33 | |
The conviction had a devastating
impact on the family. | 0:03:35 | 0:03:38 | |
After the hanging, she sent
my father to an orphanage... | 0:03:38 | 0:03:41 | |
..and I think that, in six years,
she saw him twice. | 0:03:43 | 0:03:46 | |
My father died thinking
that his father was a murderer. | 0:03:47 | 0:03:51 | |
That must have been terrible. | 0:03:51 | 0:03:52 | |
The police investigation
drew national and international
attention. | 0:03:54 | 0:03:57 | |
With the public demanding
swift justice, | 0:03:58 | 0:04:01 | |
Henry Seymour was tried
in October 1931 | 0:04:01 | 0:04:04 | |
and found guilty of murder. | 0:04:04 | 0:04:06 | |
In the last few years, I have
investigated a little more. | 0:04:08 | 0:04:11 | |
The evidence that I have seen so far
points to him being innocent. | 0:04:11 | 0:04:16 | |
I think the evidence
is very circumstantial. | 0:04:16 | 0:04:19 | |
Tony wants to learn who
Henry Seymour was... | 0:04:19 | 0:04:22 | |
..and why he so passionately
protested his innocence. | 0:04:23 | 0:04:26 | |
"I am convinced that sooner
or later, | 0:04:26 | 0:04:27 | |
"the real truth will be revealed to
you all. | 0:04:27 | 0:04:30 | |
"And when that time comes, you will
remember my last words to you - | 0:04:30 | 0:04:34 | |
"before God and my fellow men, | 0:04:34 | 0:04:35 | |
"I swear that I did not kill or hurt
Mrs Kempson. | 0:04:35 | 0:04:39 | |
"I could not have done it. | 0:04:39 | 0:04:40 | |
"I cannot say anything more." | 0:04:40 | 0:04:42 | |
At Oxford Castle prison, at 8am
on the 10th of December 1931, | 0:04:45 | 0:04:51 | |
Henry Seymour was hanged. | 0:04:51 | 0:04:52 | |
Desperate to uncover the truth, | 0:05:01 | 0:05:03 | |
Tony has travelled to London to meet
the barristers | 0:05:03 | 0:05:06 | |
who will be reinvestigating
his grandfather's case. | 0:05:06 | 0:05:09 | |
Jeremy Dein QC is a
top defence barrister | 0:05:11 | 0:05:13 | |
with over 30 years' experience
in serious criminal cases. | 0:05:13 | 0:05:17 | |
Sasha Wass QC,
who has successfully convicted | 0:05:18 | 0:05:21 | |
some of the country's
most notorious offenders, | 0:05:21 | 0:05:24 | |
will analyse the prosecution case
against Henry Seymour. | 0:05:24 | 0:05:27 | |
Together, they will re-examine
the facts, | 0:05:28 | 0:05:31 | |
searching for any new evidence | 0:05:31 | 0:05:32 | |
that might cast Henry Seymour's
conviction into doubt. | 0:05:32 | 0:05:36 | |
Can I ask you, Henry Seymour
was your grandfather? | 0:05:37 | 0:05:41 | |
My grandfather. When did you first
become aware of this part of your | 0:05:41 | 0:05:46 | |
family background?
Um, in my early 20s. | 0:05:46 | 0:05:50 | |
Do you have a view
about whether your grandfather
committed the murder? | 0:05:50 | 0:05:53 | |
Based on what I have read,
I think it is unlikely. | 0:05:53 | 0:05:56 | |
It seems very circumstantial,
the evidence. | 0:05:56 | 0:05:59 | |
There is very little, if any,
physical evidence. | 0:05:59 | 0:06:02 | |
Tony, what I ought to warn you
about is this - | 0:06:02 | 0:06:05 | |
rather than exonerating
the defendant in the case, | 0:06:05 | 0:06:09 | |
sometimes the evidence comes back
and proves almost conclusively | 0:06:09 | 0:06:15 | |
that the conviction is indeed safe. | 0:06:15 | 0:06:18 | |
Right. If he was guilty,
he was guilty. | 0:06:18 | 0:06:20 | |
I hope you understand
that we need something new. | 0:06:20 | 0:06:25 | |
Some new evidence or some new legal
argument to convince the judge that | 0:06:25 | 0:06:30 | |
the case should be looked at afresh. | 0:06:31 | 0:06:33 | |
Right, yeah. Good. | 0:06:33 | 0:06:34 | |
Well, we will go and do
some investigating. | 0:06:34 | 0:06:37 | |
Thank you. And hopefully we will
have some news for you very soon. | 0:06:37 | 0:06:40 | |
Great. | 0:06:40 | 0:06:41 | |
This was a challenging case
for the police at the time, | 0:06:42 | 0:06:45 | |
who initially had no suspects
for the violent crime. | 0:06:45 | 0:06:48 | |
The barristers must first identify
the key evidence | 0:06:50 | 0:06:53 | |
that put Henry Seymour in the frame. | 0:06:53 | 0:06:56 | |
Well, Jeremy, this is a case where
time of death | 0:06:56 | 0:06:59 | |
is going to be critical to our
investigations. | 0:06:59 | 0:07:03 | |
Annie Kempson was found murdered in
her own home | 0:07:03 | 0:07:07 | |
on the evening of the 3rd
of August, 1931. | 0:07:07 | 0:07:11 | |
She was last seen by a lodger
the Saturday beforehand, | 0:07:11 | 0:07:15 | |
which was the 1st of August,
sometime after nine o'clock. | 0:07:15 | 0:07:19 | |
And she was not seen by anybody
inside the house | 0:07:19 | 0:07:22 | |
after the Saturday morning. | 0:07:22 | 0:07:25 | |
The position is that one of the
clues that the police found | 0:07:25 | 0:07:30 | |
was a visiting card from
a vacuum cleaner salesman. | 0:07:30 | 0:07:35 | |
He was traced as being Henry Seymour
and, indeed, | 0:07:35 | 0:07:39 | |
he was seen in Oxford on the
Saturday morning at about 11 o'clock | 0:07:39 | 0:07:43 | |
at a bus stop. | 0:07:43 | 0:07:45 | |
So there's a very narrow window | 0:07:45 | 0:07:46 | |
in which he would have committed
the murder, | 0:07:46 | 0:07:50 | |
if indeed he is the murderer
in this case. | 0:07:50 | 0:07:52 | |
For me, the key point here
has to be time of death. | 0:07:52 | 0:07:56 | |
I agree. Because a large number of
witnesses were called at the trial | 0:07:56 | 0:08:00 | |
to say that they saw Annie Kempson
after about 11 o'clock, | 0:08:00 | 0:08:04 | |
when the prosecution said the murder
had been committed. | 0:08:04 | 0:08:08 | |
The other important feature in this
case was the cause of death | 0:08:08 | 0:08:13 | |
and the murder weapon, | 0:08:13 | 0:08:14 | |
because the pathologist at the time
suggested that Mrs Kempson | 0:08:14 | 0:08:18 | |
had been bludgeoned over the head
with a blunt instrument | 0:08:18 | 0:08:21 | |
considered to be a hammer | 0:08:21 | 0:08:23 | |
and she was then stabbed through
the throat | 0:08:23 | 0:08:26 | |
with something similar to a chisel. | 0:08:26 | 0:08:29 | |
And when Henry Seymour's lodgings
were searched by the police, | 0:08:29 | 0:08:32 | |
they found a hammer which had been
cleaned, again, looking suspicious. | 0:08:32 | 0:08:37 | |
So he has the opportunity
to kill her, | 0:08:37 | 0:08:40 | |
he has the weapons to kill her and
we know that they have had contact | 0:08:40 | 0:08:44 | |
because he had sold her a vacuum
cleaner 18 months beforehand. | 0:08:44 | 0:08:49 | |
So, yes, a case for Henry Seymour
to answer, | 0:08:49 | 0:08:53 | |
but by no means a compelling case. | 0:08:53 | 0:08:56 | |
And we have to look at the fine
detail in order to assess | 0:08:56 | 0:09:00 | |
whether this was
a proper conviction. | 0:09:00 | 0:09:03 | |
Yes. | 0:09:03 | 0:09:05 | |
Henry's early life
is shrouded in mystery. | 0:09:05 | 0:09:09 | |
By 1931, he was married
and living in Oxford. | 0:09:09 | 0:09:13 | |
Working as a travelling salesman, | 0:09:13 | 0:09:15 | |
he was struggling to make ends meet
and had fallen into debt. | 0:09:15 | 0:09:18 | |
For the first time, | 0:09:21 | 0:09:22 | |
Tony is visiting the home
that Henry Seymour shared | 0:09:22 | 0:09:25 | |
with his wife and child. | 0:09:25 | 0:09:27 | |
It's nice seeing the location where
my father was hopefully very happy | 0:09:29 | 0:09:32 | |
before he went into the orphanage. | 0:09:32 | 0:09:34 | |
He would have known a real kind
of family environment. | 0:09:34 | 0:09:37 | |
At the time of the murder, however,
Henry was estranged from his family. | 0:09:38 | 0:09:43 | |
He was down in Brighton. | 0:09:43 | 0:09:44 | |
Why he was there, again,
I don't know. | 0:09:46 | 0:09:48 | |
I think he was just
doing the rounds, | 0:09:48 | 0:09:50 | |
trying to collect money
for various... | 0:09:50 | 0:09:53 | |
or borrow money from various people
and contacts. | 0:09:53 | 0:09:57 | |
Either to pay his debts off,
which seemed to be quite large, | 0:09:57 | 0:10:00 | |
or just to make ends meet. | 0:10:00 | 0:10:02 | |
Just the fact that he was moving
around | 0:10:02 | 0:10:04 | |
looks very suspicious, doesn't it?
I mean, he's a strange character. | 0:10:04 | 0:10:07 | |
You can't...can't pin him down,
can you? | 0:10:07 | 0:10:10 | |
Henry's suspicious behaviour on
a fleeting visit to Oxford included | 0:10:10 | 0:10:15 | |
staying with a former customer, Mrs
Andrews, who lived at Gipsy Lane. | 0:10:15 | 0:10:20 | |
This is where Henry stayed the night
before the murder. | 0:10:24 | 0:10:27 | |
It's strange that he should choose
to stay the night here. | 0:10:27 | 0:10:30 | |
Still in Oxford. He is not that far
away from where he was living with | 0:10:30 | 0:10:34 | |
my grandmother and my father. | 0:10:34 | 0:10:36 | |
Now, why he would do that,
I have no idea. | 0:10:36 | 0:10:39 | |
If they'd had a falling out, | 0:10:39 | 0:10:40 | |
or maybe he was on the run from
the police for some reason, | 0:10:40 | 0:10:43 | |
I really don't know. But, you know,
just another puzzle. | 0:10:43 | 0:10:47 | |
But Mrs Andrews was to provide the
police with a vital clue | 0:10:47 | 0:10:51 | |
in their investigation. | 0:10:51 | 0:10:52 | |
The landlady saw in his possessions
in his bag, | 0:10:54 | 0:10:59 | |
she saw a hammer wrapped
in brown paper. | 0:10:59 | 0:11:02 | |
Which would become important later
on in the case. | 0:11:02 | 0:11:05 | |
I think the police
were very interested in that. | 0:11:05 | 0:11:07 | |
The police had already found
Henry Seymour's business card | 0:11:09 | 0:11:12 | |
in the victim's home. | 0:11:12 | 0:11:13 | |
And now they had a witness
linking him with the suspected
murder weapon. | 0:11:14 | 0:11:19 | |
They were certain they had
their man. | 0:11:19 | 0:11:21 | |
Seymour was arrested
and charged with murder. | 0:11:21 | 0:11:24 | |
The police were building
their case against Seymour, | 0:11:28 | 0:11:31 | |
but the barristers want to know if
all the evidence places him | 0:11:31 | 0:11:34 | |
at the scene of the crime. | 0:11:34 | 0:11:36 | |
So, Jeremy, what I think would be
quite useful in this case | 0:11:36 | 0:11:39 | |
is to consider what Henry
Seymour said his movements were | 0:11:39 | 0:11:44 | |
on the 1st of August | 0:11:44 | 0:11:46 | |
and how that dovetails with
the prosecution witnesses. | 0:11:46 | 0:11:50 | |
Although Mrs Kempson's body was not
discovered until the evening of | 0:11:51 | 0:11:55 | |
Monday the 3rd of August, | 0:11:55 | 0:11:57 | |
police were certain that she had
been killed on the Saturday morning | 0:11:57 | 0:12:00 | |
between 9:20am,
when her lodger left, and 11am, | 0:12:00 | 0:12:04 | |
when a friend called at the house
but received no answer. | 0:12:04 | 0:12:07 | |
On the night before
the 1st of August, | 0:12:09 | 0:12:12 | |
Henry Seymour said he had stayed at
Mrs Andrews' house as a lodger | 0:12:12 | 0:12:17 | |
and told police that he left
Mrs Andrews' house | 0:12:18 | 0:12:22 | |
at about 9:30 in the morning. | 0:12:22 | 0:12:24 | |
And the distance between Mrs
Andrews' house and the murder
location | 0:12:24 | 0:12:28 | |
is about a 20-minute walk. | 0:12:28 | 0:12:31 | |
What we know from prosecution
witnesses | 0:12:31 | 0:12:33 | |
was that at about ten o'clock, | 0:12:33 | 0:12:35 | |
Mrs Kempson answered the door to
someone | 0:12:35 | 0:12:38 | |
whom she let in straight away,
as if she knew him. | 0:12:38 | 0:12:41 | |
And, indeed, Henry Seymour said to
the police | 0:12:41 | 0:12:45 | |
that he knew Mrs Kempson. | 0:12:45 | 0:12:48 | |
So, could this 10am caller
have been Henry Seymour? | 0:12:49 | 0:12:53 | |
He claimed that he'd set off from
Mrs Andrews' house to the home of | 0:12:53 | 0:12:57 | |
another customer nearby,
before changing his mind. | 0:12:57 | 0:13:00 | |
Without witnesses to corroborate his
movements during this crucial period | 0:13:00 | 0:13:04 | |
between 9:30 and 11am,
he had no alibi. | 0:13:04 | 0:13:09 | |
The next significant event is at
a bus stop on the London Road. | 0:13:09 | 0:13:14 | |
And at the bus stop, | 0:13:14 | 0:13:16 | |
a woman called Florence Collins said | 0:13:16 | 0:13:19 | |
she saw Henry Seymour just after
11 o'clock. | 0:13:19 | 0:13:23 | |
She said that he was in a bit of
a state and he appeared agitated. | 0:13:23 | 0:13:26 | |
So, on the timing,
all this would fit. | 0:13:27 | 0:13:32 | |
It would give Henry Seymour an
opportunity | 0:13:32 | 0:13:35 | |
to attend Mrs Kempson's house. | 0:13:35 | 0:13:37 | |
Whether they had an argument
straight away or not, | 0:13:37 | 0:13:40 | |
we obviously don't know. | 0:13:40 | 0:13:42 | |
The attack takes place, the
ransacking of the house takes place. | 0:13:42 | 0:13:47 | |
Money is taken and a fast.... | 0:13:47 | 0:13:50 | |
A fast-moving escape
up to the bus stop | 0:13:50 | 0:13:53 | |
which would explain why Mrs Collins
saw him agitated. | 0:13:53 | 0:13:58 | |
So, what do you think? | 0:13:58 | 0:13:59 | |
Well, what I think is that your
analysis fundamentally presupposes | 0:13:59 | 0:14:05 | |
that the prosecution were correct to
time the murder | 0:14:05 | 0:14:08 | |
at around 10am
on the 1st of August. | 0:14:08 | 0:14:11 | |
But there was an abundance of
evidence available | 0:14:11 | 0:14:14 | |
that that simply wasn't correct. | 0:14:14 | 0:14:16 | |
Nine quite separate,
independent witnesses | 0:14:16 | 0:14:19 | |
place Mrs Kempson in and around her
home well after 11 o'clock | 0:14:19 | 0:14:24 | |
on the morning of the 1st of August. | 0:14:24 | 0:14:26 | |
So, Sasha, ultimately, | 0:14:26 | 0:14:27 | |
there is an issue as to whether
the prosecution were correct. | 0:14:27 | 0:14:30 | |
And if they were wrong about that, | 0:14:30 | 0:14:33 | |
then the case against Henry Seymour
begins to fall apart. | 0:14:33 | 0:14:36 | |
I agree. | 0:14:36 | 0:14:38 | |
If Jeremy can prove Mrs Kempson
was killed after 11am, | 0:14:38 | 0:14:42 | |
then Henry Seymour could not
be the culprit, | 0:14:42 | 0:14:44 | |
as, by that time,
he had left Oxford. | 0:14:44 | 0:14:46 | |
Walking from Gipsy Lane to the site
of Mrs Kempson's house, | 0:14:48 | 0:14:52 | |
Tony is not convinced there is
enough evidence to link Henry | 0:14:52 | 0:14:56 | |
to the scene of the murder. | 0:14:56 | 0:14:57 | |
I do know that the prosecution
wanted to believe | 0:15:00 | 0:15:02 | |
that she was killed
on the Saturday morning. | 0:15:02 | 0:15:06 | |
Their reasoning behind this was that
she was a fairly fastidious woman | 0:15:06 | 0:15:10 | |
with regular habits and that
when they found the body, | 0:15:10 | 0:15:15 | |
she still had her curlers
in her hair | 0:15:15 | 0:15:17 | |
and the washing up hadn't been done | 0:15:17 | 0:15:19 | |
and all these sorts of things. | 0:15:19 | 0:15:21 | |
So it was obvious that she had been
murdered before she had had time to | 0:15:21 | 0:15:25 | |
get ready and go out of the house. | 0:15:25 | 0:15:27 | |
There was a man who was seen
visiting the house | 0:15:29 | 0:15:31 | |
at around about ten o'clock. | 0:15:31 | 0:15:33 | |
And I think the prosecution
tried to infer that this
was Henry Seymour, | 0:15:33 | 0:15:37 | |
but he was never
positively identified. | 0:15:37 | 0:15:40 | |
It may well have been the murderer,
but was it Henry? | 0:15:40 | 0:15:44 | |
We just don't know. | 0:15:44 | 0:15:46 | |
Tony travels to the bus stop where
Henry was seen shortly after 11am | 0:15:47 | 0:15:52 | |
by Florence Collins. | 0:15:52 | 0:15:53 | |
That's a good... | 0:15:56 | 0:15:58 | |
40-minute walk, I should think. | 0:15:58 | 0:16:00 | |
If he was there at all, | 0:16:00 | 0:16:01 | |
he must have left Boundary House
at about 20 past ten. | 0:16:01 | 0:16:05 | |
Mrs Collins said that when she
met him, he was agitated, | 0:16:05 | 0:16:09 | |
but he wasn't out of breath,
he was, uh, he was fine. | 0:16:09 | 0:16:13 | |
To do that walk in, uh... | 0:16:14 | 0:16:15 | |
..in 40 minutes, you'd have had
to have been going some. | 0:16:17 | 0:16:21 | |
Could these timings be the key
to solving this mystery? | 0:16:21 | 0:16:25 | |
The window of opportunity when Henry
could have committed the crime | 0:16:26 | 0:16:31 | |
just seems to be getting smaller and
smaller and just leads me to think | 0:16:31 | 0:16:36 | |
more and more that... | 0:16:36 | 0:16:37 | |
..the evidence is so questionable. | 0:16:38 | 0:16:40 | |
Sasha believes the prosecution
case is strong, | 0:16:45 | 0:16:48 | |
but Jeremy is searching for evidence | 0:16:48 | 0:16:50 | |
that will cast doubt
on the time of death. | 0:16:50 | 0:16:53 | |
A really interesting feature
of Henry Seymour's case is that nine | 0:16:53 | 0:16:57 | |
witnesses were called
by the defence. | 0:16:57 | 0:17:00 | |
And if their evidence was correct, | 0:17:00 | 0:17:02 | |
then Mrs Kempson was alive and
apparently well throughout the day | 0:17:02 | 0:17:07 | |
on Saturday the 1st of August. | 0:17:07 | 0:17:10 | |
William Lowe said he saw her post
a letter in the pillar box close to | 0:17:10 | 0:17:15 | |
where she lived at about 11am. | 0:17:15 | 0:17:18 | |
I don't think there's any evidence
of a letter being received after her | 0:17:18 | 0:17:23 | |
death by anybody, is there? | 0:17:23 | 0:17:24 | |
But the thing is, Sasha, that he is
only the first of nine witnesses. | 0:17:24 | 0:17:27 | |
Sarah King and, um... | 0:17:27 | 0:17:30 | |
Evelyn Barrett, the next
two witnesses, their evidence, | 0:17:30 | 0:17:33 | |
they're completely independent
of each other... | 0:17:33 | 0:17:35 | |
They go together, though,
don't they? | 0:17:35 | 0:17:37 | |
They go together in that both said
that they saw Mrs Kempson | 0:17:37 | 0:17:41 | |
buying a loaf of bread. | 0:17:41 | 0:17:42 | |
I think one of the difficulties in
relation to all of these witnesses | 0:17:42 | 0:17:47 | |
is they are describing events which
were commonplace and routine. | 0:17:47 | 0:17:53 | |
There was nothing really
to pinpoint the Saturday. | 0:17:53 | 0:17:56 | |
There is, because Evelyn Barrett was
clear that Mrs Kempson said she did | 0:17:56 | 0:18:02 | |
not need more bread because
she was going away tomorrow. | 0:18:03 | 0:18:07 | |
Tomorrow was the Sunday. | 0:18:07 | 0:18:09 | |
And she was going away
on the Sunday. | 0:18:09 | 0:18:11 | |
So I am afraid there is something
very specific to fix her visit | 0:18:11 | 0:18:15 | |
to the bread shop at Saturday
the 1st of August. | 0:18:15 | 0:18:18 | |
What troubles me is when one goes
back to Mrs Kempson's home address, | 0:18:18 | 0:18:25 | |
which is where her lodger returned
several days later, | 0:18:25 | 0:18:29 | |
there was no new loaf of bread,
there was no extra pound of butter, | 0:18:29 | 0:18:33 | |
which these people said had been
bought by her on the Saturday. | 0:18:33 | 0:18:36 | |
There are an escalating number of
witnesses who all pinpoint seeing | 0:18:36 | 0:18:40 | |
Mrs Kempson on that Saturday. | 0:18:40 | 0:18:41 | |
Jeremy, I agree, on the face of it, | 0:18:41 | 0:18:44 | |
these look like witnesses
who ought | 0:18:44 | 0:18:46 | |
to have shaken
the prosecution case at trial, | 0:18:46 | 0:18:51 | |
but let me just deal with Mr Taylor
as an example, because it was he | 0:18:51 | 0:18:55 | |
who went to the newspapers and said
that he had seen Mrs Kempson | 0:18:55 | 0:18:59 | |
after the police said
she had been murdered. | 0:18:59 | 0:19:02 | |
So he became a bit of a celebrity
as far as that was concerned. | 0:19:02 | 0:19:06 | |
And then it was only after Mr Taylor
that all of the other witnesses came | 0:19:06 | 0:19:11 | |
to make their statements,
saying that they, too, had seen her. | 0:19:11 | 0:19:15 | |
And I am of the view that the jury
were in the best possible position | 0:19:15 | 0:19:20 | |
to evaluate whether these witnesses
were credible | 0:19:20 | 0:19:24 | |
and whether they were reliable. | 0:19:24 | 0:19:26 | |
And obviously, if the jury
believed those witnesses, | 0:19:26 | 0:19:29 | |
they would have acquitted
Henry Seymour, wouldn't they? | 0:19:29 | 0:19:33 | |
Sasha is unpersuaded
by the defence witnesses, | 0:19:33 | 0:19:37 | |
so Jeremy still needs fresh evidence
to undermine the prosecution's case. | 0:19:37 | 0:19:41 | |
Can forensic pathologist Dr Basil
Purdue provide any new insight | 0:19:43 | 0:19:47 | |
regarding the time of death? | 0:19:47 | 0:19:49 | |
There was a lot of evidence
given at trial about | 0:19:49 | 0:19:52 | |
stomach content and time of death. | 0:19:52 | 0:19:55 | |
Because, for example, in this case, | 0:19:55 | 0:19:58 | |
there was a suggestion that,
12 hours prior to death, | 0:19:58 | 0:20:03 | |
Annie Kempson had eaten tomatoes
because tomato skin remains in the | 0:20:03 | 0:20:03 | |
Annie Kempson had eaten tomatoes
because tomato skin remains in the | 0:20:03 | 0:20:08 | |
intestines for quite a long time. | 0:20:08 | 0:20:10 | |
Do you agree with that much? | 0:20:10 | 0:20:11 | |
Yes. It's fair enough. | 0:20:11 | 0:20:13 | |
You can look at the separation
of them | 0:20:13 | 0:20:15 | |
and you can look at the normal rate
of transit of food through the gut, | 0:20:15 | 0:20:20 | |
but it makes the assumption that the
person is digesting normally | 0:20:20 | 0:20:24 | |
the whole time | 0:20:24 | 0:20:25 | |
and that they are broadly
within the normal parameters
for an average person. | 0:20:25 | 0:20:31 | |
I think what you're saying is
that it's dangerous to try | 0:20:31 | 0:20:36 | |
to pinpoint time of death by
reference to | 0:20:36 | 0:20:40 | |
evidence of when food has last
been digested. Yes. | 0:20:40 | 0:20:43 | |
It's dangerously easy to jump to
conclusions of that sort and for
that reason, | 0:20:43 | 0:20:48 | |
timing by gastric transit
and the rest of it is just not done. | 0:20:48 | 0:20:53 | |
So, just to encapsulate your take
on this evidence, | 0:20:53 | 0:20:58 | |
from the pathological evidence given
at trial, | 0:20:58 | 0:21:02 | |
is it possible to say whether Annie
Kempson met her death | 0:21:02 | 0:21:06 | |
on the Saturday or the Sunday? | 0:21:06 | 0:21:08 | |
Even nowadays, | 0:21:08 | 0:21:10 | |
a bracket of timing is plus or minus
more than 2.5 hours. | 0:21:10 | 0:21:15 | |
So a bracket that is 5.5 hours long. | 0:21:15 | 0:21:17 | |
Making any sort of firm
determination that it was the
morning of the Saturday | 0:21:17 | 0:21:22 | |
or the evening of the Friday
or something of the sort | 0:21:22 | 0:21:24 | |
I think is far beyond what is
fair or reasonable. | 0:21:24 | 0:21:27 | |
Thank you very much. I think that's
cleared that up, has it not? | 0:21:27 | 0:21:30 | |
Yes. Thank you very much.
Thank you very much. | 0:21:30 | 0:21:32 | |
With all avenues for disproving
the prosecution's time of death now | 0:21:32 | 0:21:36 | |
closed, Jeremy will need to find
a new argument. | 0:21:36 | 0:21:39 | |
Back in Oxford, Tony has certainly
not been swayed by the evidence that | 0:21:44 | 0:21:48 | |
was used to charge his grandfather. | 0:21:48 | 0:21:50 | |
At the Oxford History Centre, | 0:21:50 | 0:21:53 | |
genealogist Jenny Montague Jones
has uncovered some information that | 0:21:53 | 0:21:57 | |
might explain why Henry Seymour
was such a convenient culprit. | 0:21:57 | 0:22:02 | |
I've picked up from reading books
about the case that there's | 0:22:02 | 0:22:06 | |
some South African connection. | 0:22:06 | 0:22:09 | |
And you know that he went out with
his parents to South Africa? | 0:22:09 | 0:22:12 | |
No. Right. | 0:22:12 | 0:22:14 | |
OK. No, I don't know anything... OK. | 0:22:14 | 0:22:15 | |
A teenage Henry and his parents | 0:22:17 | 0:22:19 | |
travelled from England
to South Africa in November 1901. | 0:22:19 | 0:22:22 | |
Due to the Boer War, | 0:22:25 | 0:22:26 | |
there were job opportunities
for skilled tradespeople. | 0:22:26 | 0:22:29 | |
But Henry, it appears,
put his skills to other uses. | 0:22:30 | 0:22:34 | |
We've had a look at the
Oxford prison... | 0:22:35 | 0:22:38 | |
Right. ..calendar
and I can show you this. | 0:22:38 | 0:22:42 | |
You see his first offence is 1906. | 0:22:43 | 0:22:46 | |
But you might want to note
where it is. | 0:22:46 | 0:22:49 | |
Johannesburg, yeah. | 0:22:49 | 0:22:50 | |
This indicates that from basically
1904 to 1917... | 0:22:50 | 0:22:57 | |
OK. ..he's involved in various
criminal activities. | 0:22:57 | 0:23:01 | |
And then we've got something back
in this country. | 0:23:01 | 0:23:04 | |
1920. 1920. | 0:23:04 | 0:23:07 | |
But he's actually using
a different name. | 0:23:07 | 0:23:11 | |
I note above that
he's got another name. | 0:23:11 | 0:23:13 | |
Yes. | 0:23:13 | 0:23:15 | |
Henry Daniel Seymour. | 0:23:15 | 0:23:17 | |
Aliases Henry Daniel Goodfellow
and Harry Johnson. | 0:23:17 | 0:23:21 | |
It seems that on returning
to the UK, | 0:23:22 | 0:23:24 | |
Henry used new names to distance
himself from his criminal past. | 0:23:24 | 0:23:29 | |
But he was unable to change
his ways. | 0:23:29 | 0:23:31 | |
I'd like to show you this, | 0:23:31 | 0:23:33 | |
which is a police supplement. | 0:23:33 | 0:23:35 | |
And I don't know if you... | 0:23:35 | 0:23:37 | |
My word! ..recognise him at all. | 0:23:37 | 0:23:39 | |
I've seen that photo,
one photo of him. | 0:23:39 | 0:23:41 | |
Yeah. And that's certainly the man. | 0:23:41 | 0:23:43 | |
That's definitely him? Yeah. OK. | 0:23:43 | 0:23:45 | |
Yeah. There's also a description
of him. | 0:23:45 | 0:23:48 | |
Expert house, shop and safe breaker, | 0:23:48 | 0:23:51 | |
who came to this country
from South Africa, | 0:23:51 | 0:23:53 | |
where he was convicted
for various offences. | 0:23:53 | 0:23:55 | |
On each occasion he's been
convicted in this country, | 0:23:57 | 0:23:59 | |
he has denied the South African
convictions, | 0:23:59 | 0:24:02 | |
although they have been verified
by fingerprints. | 0:24:02 | 0:24:06 | |
This lists all the items. | 0:24:06 | 0:24:08 | |
Six suits in suitcase. | 0:24:09 | 0:24:11 | |
Good grief, he'd need a lorry
to get rid of the... | 0:24:11 | 0:24:15 | |
Also a one-inch jemmy, 14-inch-long
clawhead point hammer, | 0:24:15 | 0:24:20 | |
brace and bits, screwdriver, | 0:24:20 | 0:24:22 | |
six skeleton keys and
four small files. | 0:24:22 | 0:24:25 | |
Wow! | 0:24:25 | 0:24:27 | |
In some of the, uh, | 0:24:27 | 0:24:29 | |
documentation I've read
about the case, | 0:24:29 | 0:24:31 | |
he describes himself
as a cabinet-maker. | 0:24:31 | 0:24:33 | |
And that's why he had the tools
that he had. | 0:24:33 | 0:24:36 | |
Yeah, don't seem to have found any
evidence of him making any cabinets. | 0:24:36 | 0:24:39 | |
No. More like breaking
into cabinets. | 0:24:39 | 0:24:41 | |
Yeah, I think so. Yes.
Housebreaking. | 0:24:41 | 0:24:44 | |
Stealing. He's a career criminal,
isn't he? | 0:24:44 | 0:24:46 | |
He is a bit, yeah. | 0:24:46 | 0:24:48 | |
I've just seen something. | 0:24:48 | 0:24:50 | |
Look. Unlawful wounding,
reduced from attempted murder. | 0:24:51 | 0:24:55 | |
Now that's interesting.
That's the first time I've seen
any violence involved. | 0:24:56 | 0:25:00 | |
Because that's the impression I got, | 0:25:00 | 0:25:02 | |
that he was a criminal
but he wasn't violent at all. | 0:25:02 | 0:25:06 | |
But that is the first instance
I've seen of that, | 0:25:06 | 0:25:09 | |
which is quite interesting. | 0:25:09 | 0:25:11 | |
With this revelation
about Henry's violent past, | 0:25:11 | 0:25:14 | |
has Tony's confidence in his
grandfather's innocence been shaken? | 0:25:14 | 0:25:17 | |
Now I know that not only
was he a criminal, | 0:25:19 | 0:25:22 | |
but there is evidence
he was a violent criminal, | 0:25:22 | 0:25:24 | |
it kind of changes
my perspective on it a bit. | 0:25:24 | 0:25:26 | |
I can kind of understand why
the authorities were so keen
to prosecute him. | 0:25:26 | 0:25:32 | |
But does it make him a murderer? | 0:25:32 | 0:25:34 | |
I don't know. | 0:25:34 | 0:25:35 | |
Evidence concerning
the murder weapon was central
to the prosecution case. | 0:25:38 | 0:25:43 | |
Mrs Kempson suffered three blows to
the head with a blunt instrument | 0:25:43 | 0:25:47 | |
and a fatal stab wound to the neck. | 0:25:47 | 0:25:50 | |
A hammer found in Seymour's
belongings | 0:25:50 | 0:25:53 | |
seemed to indicate his guilt. | 0:25:53 | 0:25:55 | |
But when tested by the leading
forensic scientist of the time, | 0:25:55 | 0:25:58 | |
Sir Bernard Spilsbury, the police
received unexpected results. | 0:25:58 | 0:26:03 | |
The findings on it are really quite
instructive. | 0:26:04 | 0:26:07 | |
And it shows he's done a proper job
on it. | 0:26:07 | 0:26:09 | |
Yeah. | 0:26:09 | 0:26:10 | |
Dr Basil Perdue has reviewed
Spilsbury's reports. | 0:26:10 | 0:26:14 | |
Several areas on the head he applied
a chemical test for blood. | 0:26:14 | 0:26:17 | |
It was negative. | 0:26:17 | 0:26:19 | |
And he took the head of the hammer | 0:26:19 | 0:26:21 | |
and he took it off,
because even if you | 0:26:21 | 0:26:23 | |
clean a hammer, you won't be able to
clean the bit | 0:26:23 | 0:26:27 | |
that's inside the head. | 0:26:27 | 0:26:28 | |
Right. And he actually applied his
blood tests to that inside bit. | 0:26:28 | 0:26:33 | |
And there was no blood inside
the hammer. | 0:26:33 | 0:26:36 | |
But he had another and more
important objection to it all. | 0:26:36 | 0:26:39 | |
He said the flat surface at one end
of the head was measured. | 0:26:39 | 0:26:43 | |
And he said it was found
to have a diameter | 0:26:43 | 0:26:45 | |
of one and one-sixteenth
of an inch. | 0:26:45 | 0:26:47 | |
This was applied to the two
fractures of the skull | 0:26:47 | 0:26:51 | |
to see if it fitted. | 0:26:51 | 0:26:52 | |
It was found to be smaller than the
curved segment of each of the | 0:26:52 | 0:26:56 | |
fractures, so it didn't fit. | 0:26:56 | 0:26:59 | |
Well, in fact, he goes on to say, | 0:26:59 | 0:27:01 | |
I think right at the end
of his report, | 0:27:01 | 0:27:04 | |
quote, "In my opinion therefore, the
injuries on the head of the deceased | 0:27:04 | 0:27:08 | |
"woman were not produced
by this hammer." | 0:27:08 | 0:27:10 | |
So, the impact of this report was to
exclude this hammer from having been | 0:27:10 | 0:27:15 | |
the murder weapon. That's right. | 0:27:15 | 0:27:17 | |
Seymour's hammer was initially ruled
out as the murder weapon, | 0:27:17 | 0:27:21 | |
so why was he convicted? | 0:27:21 | 0:27:23 | |
It concerns the evidence that
Bernard Spilsbury gave at trial. | 0:27:23 | 0:27:27 | |
He said that he obtained a hammer,
exact facsimile, | 0:27:28 | 0:27:32 | |
if we take his word for it,
of Seymour's hammer. | 0:27:32 | 0:27:34 | |
And Spilsbury performed a number of
experiments on it. | 0:27:36 | 0:27:38 | |
Basically, he struck at a piece of
wood to see what sort of indentation | 0:27:38 | 0:27:43 | |
he could get and what I propose to
do is to replicate that now. | 0:27:43 | 0:27:47 | |
If you want to step back a moment... | 0:27:47 | 0:27:48 | |
That... That is the sort of fracture
that he produced. | 0:27:49 | 0:27:54 | |
So the dents on the wood
did not match | 0:27:54 | 0:27:58 | |
the injuries to the deceased
lady's skull. | 0:27:58 | 0:28:01 | |
In other words, as you were
in terms of his original findings. | 0:28:01 | 0:28:04 | |
That's exactly right. | 0:28:04 | 0:28:06 | |
Unable to reproduce the injuries,
Spilsbury began to experiment. | 0:28:06 | 0:28:11 | |
So, he said, let's get some material
and wrap the head of the hammer. | 0:28:11 | 0:28:15 | |
And he got a crash duster. | 0:28:15 | 0:28:17 | |
Spilsbury, I think,
tried two thicknesses. | 0:28:17 | 0:28:20 | |
One thicknesses, four thicknesses,
16 thicknesses, he used brown paper, | 0:28:20 | 0:28:24 | |
he used this crash duster material. | 0:28:24 | 0:28:26 | |
And he eventually said
16 thicknesses will do it. | 0:28:26 | 0:28:29 | |
So, not the most effective hitting
implement you could have but we will | 0:28:29 | 0:28:35 | |
try it. I will strike
this piece of wood again, | 0:28:35 | 0:28:38 | |
using this strange arrangement. | 0:28:38 | 0:28:40 | |
Certainly marked the crash duster. | 0:28:42 | 0:28:44 | |
On the basis of what you've seen, | 0:28:45 | 0:28:48 | |
had the police established any link
between Henry Seymour | 0:28:48 | 0:28:52 | |
and this type of material? | 0:28:52 | 0:28:54 | |
No. But it's the principle of it
that really worries me. | 0:28:54 | 0:28:58 | |
The idea of - can we make this
hammer fit the injuries? | 0:28:58 | 0:29:02 | |
But having covered the hammerhead in
that material, he did get a match, | 0:29:02 | 0:29:06 | |
according to him. Yes. | 0:29:06 | 0:29:08 | |
Having tried many different
thicknesses of brown paper
and crash duster. | 0:29:08 | 0:29:11 | |
What would you say about those
tests? | 0:29:11 | 0:29:13 | |
Do you regard the tests he conducted
as safe and proper | 0:29:13 | 0:29:16 | |
in all the circumstances? | 0:29:16 | 0:29:18 | |
Basically, whether asked by the
police or off his own initiative, | 0:29:18 | 0:29:21 | |
he's gone too far. | 0:29:21 | 0:29:23 | |
Well, that's given us a lot
to think about. | 0:29:23 | 0:29:25 | |
Thank you very much indeed. | 0:29:25 | 0:29:27 | |
Sir Bernard Spilsbury's unorthodox
experiment has proved to be | 0:29:27 | 0:29:31 | |
a significant breakthrough
for the barristers. | 0:29:31 | 0:29:34 | |
What Spilsbury did was to fix
the conclusion in his own mind | 0:29:34 | 0:29:41 | |
that Henry Seymour was guilty of
murder and work backwards. | 0:29:41 | 0:29:44 | |
It appeared that he expressed a firm
opinion excluding a hammer that was | 0:29:44 | 0:29:51 | |
found on the defendant
and then turned round, | 0:29:51 | 0:29:56 | |
doing everything possible, | 0:29:56 | 0:29:57 | |
trying to conduct experiments
with a different hammer, | 0:29:57 | 0:30:01 | |
saying that it might have been
possible with 16 layers of cloth. | 0:30:01 | 0:30:06 | |
That appears to me
to be quite the wrong approach. | 0:30:06 | 0:30:08 | |
I'm wholly unimpressed with the way
Bernard Spilsbury dealt with this. | 0:30:08 | 0:30:12 | |
As was, perhaps more importantly,
Basil Perdue, our pathologist. | 0:30:12 | 0:30:17 | |
At Oxford County Hall, | 0:30:19 | 0:30:21 | |
Tony meets retired police officer
Paul Khyber | 0:30:21 | 0:30:24 | |
in the very courtroom where his
grandfather was tried for murder. | 0:30:24 | 0:30:28 | |
It's quite chilling, sitting here,
because I... | 0:30:30 | 0:30:33 | |
This is where my grandfather
was sitting. | 0:30:33 | 0:30:35 | |
Yeah. I think he must have... | 0:30:35 | 0:30:36 | |
If he was innocent, | 0:30:37 | 0:30:39 | |
how must he have felt? | 0:30:39 | 0:30:41 | |
Henry's trial in October 1931
drew huge crowds. | 0:30:41 | 0:30:46 | |
Over four days, more than
40 witnesses were called. | 0:30:46 | 0:30:49 | |
The key defence witness, however,
was Seymour himself. | 0:30:50 | 0:30:54 | |
Your grandfather gave evidence
in the witness box under oath. | 0:30:54 | 0:30:59 | |
How do you think he performed? | 0:30:59 | 0:31:00 | |
That's an interesting one.
I mean, he was a compulsive liar. | 0:31:02 | 0:31:05 | |
He was obviously very experienced
at spinning a tale. | 0:31:05 | 0:31:07 | |
But with the amount of stress and... | 0:31:07 | 0:31:11 | |
..all the eyes looking at him,
I think... That's right. | 0:31:13 | 0:31:15 | |
..he may have not done
such a good job. | 0:31:15 | 0:31:17 | |
I don't know. Some words have been
said to say look, he... | 0:31:17 | 0:31:20 | |
The defence were doing a good job
up until he went in the box. | 0:31:22 | 0:31:27 | |
Oh, no. | 0:31:27 | 0:31:28 | |
Under cross-examination,
Seymour tied himself in knots | 0:31:28 | 0:31:32 | |
trying to explain his peculiar
behaviour | 0:31:32 | 0:31:34 | |
around the time of the murder. | 0:31:34 | 0:31:36 | |
He was there and they have to
nit-pick at everything. | 0:31:36 | 0:31:38 | |
Right. And I think
that's what they did. | 0:31:38 | 0:31:40 | |
I think he got broken down. | 0:31:40 | 0:31:42 | |
Right. And, then, at the end
of the day, | 0:31:42 | 0:31:45 | |
the jury looked at each other and
thought, "He's done it." | 0:31:45 | 0:31:48 | |
The jury took just 38 minutes to
find Henry Seymour guilty of murder. | 0:31:50 | 0:31:55 | |
And all subsequent appeals
for clemency failed. | 0:31:55 | 0:31:58 | |
Did the judge's handling of the
expert evidence at trial | 0:31:58 | 0:32:01 | |
condemn a man to death? | 0:32:01 | 0:32:03 | |
Well, Jeremy, I've looked through
the summing up now, | 0:32:03 | 0:32:06 | |
carefully, and it seems to me that | 0:32:06 | 0:32:09 | |
the judge covered
all the important issues. | 0:32:09 | 0:32:12 | |
I would regard this summing up as
legally correct, fair, balanced, | 0:32:12 | 0:32:18 | |
and helpful to the jury. | 0:32:18 | 0:32:20 | |
And he identified from the beginning
that the real issue in this case was | 0:32:20 | 0:32:25 | |
one of timing, which was what
we have recognised. | 0:32:25 | 0:32:28 | |
He went through all of the defence
witnesses, | 0:32:28 | 0:32:32 | |
he went through
Sir Bernard Spilsbury's evidence
about stomach content. | 0:32:32 | 0:32:38 | |
And did, at the end,
deal with the hammer evidence, | 0:32:38 | 0:32:41 | |
which was so controversial
when we saw our own pathologist. | 0:32:41 | 0:32:45 | |
So, all in all, | 0:32:45 | 0:32:47 | |
I cannot see that this summing up | 0:32:47 | 0:32:50 | |
can form the foundation
of any challenge | 0:32:50 | 0:32:54 | |
to the safety of the conviction. | 0:32:54 | 0:32:56 | |
Basil Perdue, our pathologist, | 0:32:56 | 0:32:58 | |
was categoric that the evidence
of Sir Bernard Spilsbury | 0:32:58 | 0:33:03 | |
about the hammer
was most unsatisfactory. | 0:33:03 | 0:33:07 | |
The problem in this summing up
is the judge compounded
that unfairness. | 0:33:07 | 0:33:13 | |
He said about Bernard Spilsbury's
evidence, | 0:33:13 | 0:33:16 | |
"You may think that a blow upon a
skull with a hammer of that weight | 0:33:16 | 0:33:20 | |
"might cause a bigger dent than
merely the measurement | 0:33:20 | 0:33:23 | |
"of the head of the hammer. | 0:33:23 | 0:33:24 | |
"You might think so
or you might not." | 0:33:24 | 0:33:26 | |
So, my point is this, | 0:33:26 | 0:33:28 | |
he's encouraging the jury
to believe that hammer might
have caused the injuries | 0:33:28 | 0:33:32 | |
by saying, don't worry about Sir
Bernard Spilsbury excluding it, | 0:33:32 | 0:33:35 | |
you can judge for yourselves. | 0:33:35 | 0:33:37 | |
I just think that that was
an unfair direction at the time. | 0:33:37 | 0:33:41 | |
So I'm going to argue that this was
a serious defect | 0:33:41 | 0:33:44 | |
in the judge's summing up. | 0:33:44 | 0:33:46 | |
Henry Seymour spent seven weeks
awaiting execution
at Oxford Castle prison. | 0:33:49 | 0:33:53 | |
He was hanged on the 10th
of December 1931 | 0:33:53 | 0:33:57 | |
and buried in an unmarked grave. | 0:33:57 | 0:33:59 | |
This is the old prison wall. | 0:34:04 | 0:34:06 | |
And somewhere along here... | 0:34:07 | 0:34:08 | |
..is my grandfather. | 0:34:10 | 0:34:11 | |
Don't know the exact spot,
but Henry is somewhere along here. | 0:34:12 | 0:34:15 | |
Having visited Henry's
final resting place, | 0:34:21 | 0:34:24 | |
Tony is reflecting on his
grandfather's last moments | 0:34:24 | 0:34:27 | |
in what was once the execution
chamber of Oxford Prison. | 0:34:27 | 0:34:31 | |
I personally think he was innocent. | 0:34:31 | 0:34:33 | |
He was no angel, but... | 0:34:33 | 0:34:35 | |
..if you didn't murder somebody
and you were hung for that... | 0:34:37 | 0:34:40 | |
He must have just been feeling
so desperate. | 0:34:40 | 0:34:43 | |
And frustrated that nobody would
listen to him. | 0:34:43 | 0:34:46 | |
His pleas of innocence. | 0:34:46 | 0:34:47 | |
If he knew he was innocent. | 0:34:47 | 0:34:49 | |
And the injustice of it all
was just... | 0:34:49 | 0:34:52 | |
Just sickening, really. | 0:34:52 | 0:34:53 | |
Yeah, just... | 0:35:00 | 0:35:02 | |
Just nasty. | 0:35:02 | 0:35:03 | |
I just keep thinking back to his
speech in the dock and hope that, | 0:35:08 | 0:35:12 | |
as he said, one day,
the truth will be seen. | 0:35:12 | 0:35:14 | |
As the barristers prepare their
arguments for judgment day, | 0:35:20 | 0:35:24 | |
the new expert evidence
could be pivotal. | 0:35:24 | 0:35:26 | |
Sir Bernard Spilsbury, the
prosecution's pathologist at trial, | 0:35:28 | 0:35:31 | |
should never have been permitted to
conduct that bizarre test | 0:35:31 | 0:35:35 | |
that clearly influenced the jury
to convict. | 0:35:35 | 0:35:37 | |
And I'll be arguing before the judge | 0:35:37 | 0:35:40 | |
that the conviction is unsafe
as a consequence. | 0:35:40 | 0:35:44 | |
What is important is that
the defence were aware
of the experiments, | 0:35:44 | 0:35:49 | |
they challenged the experiments | 0:35:49 | 0:35:52 | |
and they criticised the veracity
of the results. | 0:35:52 | 0:35:55 | |
So the people who were in
the best possible position to make | 0:35:55 | 0:35:58 | |
a decision were the jury,
and that is what they did. | 0:35:58 | 0:36:02 | |
Judgment day has arrived | 0:36:07 | 0:36:09 | |
and Tony has travelled to London to
hear the barristers' submissions | 0:36:09 | 0:36:13 | |
about his grandfather's case. | 0:36:13 | 0:36:15 | |
I'm thinking of his closing
statement at the trial, | 0:36:15 | 0:36:18 | |
and the fact that he protested his
innocence right until the end, | 0:36:18 | 0:36:22 | |
I just think, you know, | 0:36:22 | 0:36:23 | |
at least we can help in some way
to prove that. | 0:36:23 | 0:36:27 | |
Good to see you. | 0:36:27 | 0:36:28 | |
Jeremy and Sasha will present
new evidence they have discovered, | 0:36:28 | 0:36:32 | |
or new legal arguments they have
formed in the course of their
investigation. | 0:36:32 | 0:36:36 | |
Judge Radford has decades
of experience at the criminal bar, | 0:36:38 | 0:36:41 | |
presiding over serious
criminal cases | 0:36:41 | 0:36:44 | |
and sitting in the Court of Appeal. | 0:36:44 | 0:36:46 | |
For this programme, | 0:36:46 | 0:36:47 | |
he will be treating this matter
as he would any other case. | 0:36:47 | 0:36:50 | |
Good morning. We are here today | 0:36:51 | 0:36:55 | |
for me to consider the safety of the
conviction of Henry Daniel Seymour. | 0:36:55 | 0:37:01 | |
Mr Dein, on behalf of the defence, | 0:37:02 | 0:37:05 | |
I think you're going to make
submissions to me. | 0:37:05 | 0:37:07 | |
Yes. As Your Honour knows, | 0:37:07 | 0:37:08 | |
an absolutely crucial feature of
the prosecution case | 0:37:08 | 0:37:12 | |
was that the hammer found at Mr
Seymour's lodgings was the hammer... | 0:37:12 | 0:37:17 | |
..that had been used as part
of the murder of Mrs Kempson. | 0:37:19 | 0:37:24 | |
The prosecution called Sir Bernard
Spilsbury, but, crucially, | 0:37:24 | 0:37:29 | |
in his first two reports, Spilsbury
had unequivocally concluded | 0:37:29 | 0:37:34 | |
that the three blunt force injuries
on Mrs Kempson's skull | 0:37:34 | 0:37:39 | |
could not have been caused
by the hammer | 0:37:39 | 0:37:42 | |
recovered from
Henry Seymour's lodgings. | 0:37:42 | 0:37:45 | |
And it's my submission
that matters ought to have been
left at that point | 0:37:45 | 0:37:51 | |
but, in fact,
what went on to happen | 0:37:51 | 0:37:53 | |
was Sir Bernard Spilsbury took it
upon himself to | 0:37:53 | 0:37:56 | |
wrap another similar hammer in cloth
a number of times | 0:37:56 | 0:38:01 | |
and then said that, in his view, | 0:38:01 | 0:38:04 | |
if Henry Seymour had done the same, | 0:38:04 | 0:38:07 | |
Mr Seymour's hammer
could indeed have inflicted
the injuries found on Mrs Kempson. | 0:38:07 | 0:38:11 | |
Now, Basil Perdue,
modern-day pathologist | 0:38:11 | 0:38:14 | |
with a great deal of experience
in homicide cases, | 0:38:14 | 0:38:18 | |
has said that what Sir Bernard
Spilsbury did, quote, | 0:38:18 | 0:38:23 | |
"Offends against science." | 0:38:23 | 0:38:25 | |
So it's my submission that what
occurred should never have happened | 0:38:25 | 0:38:30 | |
and that it had the clear
potential for misleading the jury | 0:38:30 | 0:38:34 | |
on a critical feature of the case. | 0:38:34 | 0:38:36 | |
Now, as if that wasn't bad enough, | 0:38:36 | 0:38:38 | |
when it came to the learned
trial judge's summing up, | 0:38:38 | 0:38:42 | |
he then goes on to rehearse Sir
Bernard Spilsbury's cloth-covered | 0:38:42 | 0:38:47 | |
exercise,
giving respectability to it. | 0:38:47 | 0:38:50 | |
Rather than to say, which he should
have done, well, | 0:38:50 | 0:38:52 | |
you should ignore this frolic
of Sir Bernard Spilsbury. | 0:38:52 | 0:38:57 | |
So in my submission, | 0:38:57 | 0:38:59 | |
this was a misdirection which could
well have led the jury | 0:38:59 | 0:39:02 | |
into rejecting Sir Bernard
Spilsbury's exclusion | 0:39:02 | 0:39:07 | |
of the original hammer and
accepting this bizarre experiment. | 0:39:07 | 0:39:11 | |
Those matters, in my submission, | 0:39:11 | 0:39:13 | |
undermine the fabric and fairness
of the trial. | 0:39:13 | 0:39:15 | |
Miss Wass, what do you say? | 0:39:15 | 0:39:18 | |
Your honour, as far as the new
hammer evidence is concerned, | 0:39:18 | 0:39:22 | |
which Mr Dein relies on,
certainly by today's standards, | 0:39:22 | 0:39:26 | |
that type of experiment would not
have been conducted in this way. | 0:39:26 | 0:39:31 | |
So for the purpose of this hearing, | 0:39:31 | 0:39:34 | |
you can exclude Sir Bernard's
evidence about the experimentation. | 0:39:34 | 0:39:40 | |
The important evidence is that the
defendant himself accepted having | 0:39:40 | 0:39:45 | |
a hammer in the vicinity of the
murder at the time of the murder, | 0:39:45 | 0:39:50 | |
when there was no lawful reason
for him to have a hammer
in his possession at all. | 0:39:50 | 0:39:55 | |
As far as the direction to the jury
is concerned, | 0:39:55 | 0:39:55 | |
As far as the direction to the jury
is concerned, | 0:39:55 | 0:39:58 | |
the judge made it abundantly clear,
as any judge would today, | 0:39:58 | 0:40:03 | |
that the jury were by no means bound
to accept the opinion of the expert. | 0:40:03 | 0:40:08 | |
And the submission that I make today | 0:40:08 | 0:40:08 | |
And the submission that I make today | 0:40:08 | 0:40:11 | |
is that in the absence of any such
experimentation, | 0:40:11 | 0:40:15 | |
there would have been a case
to answer in respect of murder. | 0:40:15 | 0:40:19 | |
The jury thereafter heard the
defendant gives his account | 0:40:19 | 0:40:22 | |
and they were sure that
he was guilty of this murder. | 0:40:22 | 0:40:27 | |
Yes, thank you, Miss Wass. | 0:40:27 | 0:40:29 | |
I am grateful to you both for
your submissions. | 0:40:29 | 0:40:31 | |
If you would be kind enough to leave
me for some time to reflect on them. | 0:40:31 | 0:40:36 | |
How do you feel about
what you heard? | 0:40:43 | 0:40:45 | |
I think you both gave a fair
and thorough... | 0:40:45 | 0:40:47 | |
..summing up. Are you optimistic? | 0:40:49 | 0:40:51 | |
I'm... Yeah, I'm... Kind of. | 0:40:51 | 0:40:54 | |
It might be a while, because
he's got a lot to consider. | 0:40:54 | 0:40:56 | |
Sure. | 0:40:56 | 0:40:58 | |
Should Henry Seymour's hammer
have been excluded from evidence? | 0:40:58 | 0:41:01 | |
Were the expert's experiments
misleading? | 0:41:02 | 0:41:05 | |
And did the judge
misdirect the jury? | 0:41:07 | 0:41:09 | |
Judge Radford is ready to
give his verdict. | 0:41:11 | 0:41:13 | |
I have considered the complaints | 0:41:19 | 0:41:22 | |
adumbrated by Mr Dein | 0:41:22 | 0:41:24 | |
and controverted by Miss Wass | 0:41:24 | 0:41:26 | |
about the safety of the conviction | 0:41:26 | 0:41:31 | |
and I've considered the evidence
from the pathologist, | 0:41:31 | 0:41:35 | |
Dr Perdue, strongly objecting to the
way in which the pathology evidence | 0:41:35 | 0:41:41 | |
was adduced at the trial. | 0:41:42 | 0:41:43 | |
The admissibility of the
experimentation that was conducted | 0:41:43 | 0:41:48 | |
using a different hammer to that
found on the defendant | 0:41:48 | 0:41:52 | |
was objectionable and unfair. | 0:41:52 | 0:41:55 | |
And that conclusion does not mean
that I've formed a view that the | 0:41:55 | 0:41:59 | |
defendant's innocence of the crime
has been demonstrated. | 0:41:59 | 0:42:03 | |
But it is a conclusion, in my view,
there was a material irregularity, | 0:42:03 | 0:42:08 | |
there was a crucial piece of
evidence | 0:42:08 | 0:42:12 | |
that was not properly presented
or summed up by the judge, | 0:42:12 | 0:42:16 | |
and may well have caused the jury to
have gone beyond strong suspicion | 0:42:16 | 0:42:22 | |
to sureness of guilt. | 0:42:22 | 0:42:24 | |
For those reasons, | 0:42:24 | 0:42:25 | |
I think there is indeed
proper reason | 0:42:25 | 0:42:28 | |
to doubt that a safe verdict
was reached. | 0:42:28 | 0:42:32 | |
I am grateful to learned counsel
for their help. | 0:42:32 | 0:42:34 | |
Thank you, Your Honour. | 0:42:34 | 0:42:36 | |
I shall rise. | 0:42:36 | 0:42:37 | |
Well done, Jeremy. Thank you. | 0:42:42 | 0:42:44 | |
Congratulations. | 0:42:44 | 0:42:45 | |
Obviously, that's a good,
positive outcome. | 0:42:47 | 0:42:49 | |
That's great, yeah. Yeah. | 0:42:49 | 0:42:50 | |
Yeah, very pleased. Excellent. | 0:42:50 | 0:42:53 | |
I think of his words in the dock
protesting his innocence | 0:42:53 | 0:42:56 | |
and he protested his innocence
right to the end. | 0:42:56 | 0:42:58 | |
And he said, one day
the truth will be shown | 0:42:58 | 0:43:02 | |
and this goes some way towards that.
So it's really good. | 0:43:02 | 0:43:06 |
Barristers Sasha Wass and Jeremy Dein scrutinise a violent burglary and murder from 1931. The murder weapon could be key to the conviction and execution of Henry Seymour.
In Oxford in 1931, 54-year-old widow Annie Louisa Kempson was bludgeoned and stabbed to death in her own home in what appeared to be a violent burglary. Door-to-door salesman and career criminal Henry Seymour was quickly embroiled in the murder investigation and eventually executed for the crime - but now his grandson Tony is starting to doubt the original verdict.
Tony enlists the help of top criminal barristers Jeremy and Sasha, who examine the evidence, starting with the time of death. Their investigation leads to an important revelation about the hammer that connected Henry to the murder, but is there enough new evidence to present the case to a senior judge?