The Charge The Prosecutors: Real Crime and Punishment


The Charge

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In 2014 there were over half a million criminal

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prosecutions in England and Wales.

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Each one was prosecuted, not by the police,

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but by the lawyers of the Crown Prosecution Service.

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My job is about applying the law to other people's lives,

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and hopefully for the public good.

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The defendant is found locked inside the house

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with his mother dead downstairs.

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In every serious criminal case, the Crown Prosecution Service

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must decide who to charge and what to charge them with.

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I think that this will come down to, I suppose, is he bad or is he mad?

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Sometimes the difficult decisions are unpopular decisions,

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but they are the right decisions.

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It's their job to build the case and battle to secure a conviction.

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All the defence have to do is just pick at things.

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They just go like that,

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and say "Well, you're not right about that."

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Now, for the very first time, the Crown Prosecution Service has let

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cameras in to film this unseen world between the police and the courts.

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These are real people. They're real people's lives

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and real emotions involved.

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We may have our suspicions, but if the evidence isn't there,

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the evidence isn't there.

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For them it's evidence.

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It's my life.

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This programme contains some strong language.

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This programme contains some scenes which some viewers may find upsetting

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Cheshire, the Alderley Edge Bypass.

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September the 16th 2013, 8.15am.

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A mother taking her children to school

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is involved in a collision that leads to a road traffic fatality.

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Mr Maan, the driver of a red Porsche, is arrested and bailed.

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In February 2014, after a six month investigation, the police file

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reaches the Crown Prosecution Service.

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Mersey Cheshire is one of 13 areas of the CPS.

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A staff of 220 are responsible for prosecuting

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over 56,000 cases every year.

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For you, Helen.

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Thank you.

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The Maan case lands on the desk of Gary Simpson.

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He must review the evidence

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and decide whether Mr Maan should be prosecuted.

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Mr Maan was driving his Porsche motor vehicle, and he left his lane,

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travelled into the opposite carriageway,

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where he came into collision with a Ford Focus vehicle.

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In effect, Mr Maan has travelled in this direction,

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and rather than continue around the bend,

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has travelled into the path of Mrs Morrissey and her Ford Focus.

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You'll see the impact is clearly head on.

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The rear seat passenger was her son, Flynn Morrissey.

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He sustained fatal injuries and subsequently died.

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A young life taken away on the way to school.

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Part of the evidence is the video interview the police conducted

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with Flynn Morrissey's mother, Nicky,

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ten days after her 11-year-old son's death.

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I can't imagine how I'm going to go on...

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..with life...

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..but I realise I do have a responsibility still.

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I can't just go off and kill myself...

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which I thought I would do.

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Cos I just want to be with Flynn.

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All driving fatality cases must be

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overseen by a Deputy Chief Crown Prosecutor.

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In the Mersey Cheshire region that is Alison Mutch.

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I think that the road traffic cases are probably the

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most difficult cases we deal with.

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They're always quite emotive,

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and sometimes they're so finely balanced.

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They are ones that you have to spend a lot of time thinking about

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and just weighing up all of the evidence.

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Mr Maan explained in a lengthy interview that he was

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familiar with the use of the car.

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He was travelling to work at the time.

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He talked about the road surface being wet

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and there being heavy rain.

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He says that as he was travelling along the road,

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he approached the bend,

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and for no apparent reason, as far as he could see,

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his vehicle lost control and he travelled into the carriageway.

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Mr Maan had various electronic devices in his car.

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They were all examined by the police

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and there is no evidence to show that he was using his phone or any

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other electronic device at the time he was travelling along the road.

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Clearly for some reason he has lost control of his vehicle

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when nobody else on that stretch of road did.

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We've got lots of different charges we can consider.

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Death by dangerous driving

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and death by careless driving are particularly relevant in this case.

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Now, for death by dangerous we have to show that the driving fell

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far below the standard of an ordinary driver.

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For death by careless we have to show it fell below.

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So it's that word "far" that's the difference between the two.

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Sometimes it's very easy - there's alcohol involved,

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somebody is on their mobile telephone,

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they're driving at very high speeds,

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and it clearly is dangerous.

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But other cases,

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whilst the consequences of the driving are absolutely catastrophic,

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the actual piece of driving falls below, but doesn't fall far below,

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and that's quite a significant change,

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because the maximum sentence is different.

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But also, if we get it wrong we're not doing the right thing

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for the family of the deceased.

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Right, shoes are in the kitchen. Go on.

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Claire Lindley has been a barrister in the CPS for over 25 years.

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Bye-bye, darling. Have a good day.

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She is now the Chief Crown Prosecutor of Mersey Cheshire.

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I don't mind the commute because it's quite good thinking time.

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Apart from the traffic, which is horrendous some days,

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and of course I have to kind of land at work

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looking like I'm in control,

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when actually I just sometimes think

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I feel like swearing cos I've been stuck on the M6 for half an hour.

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There's a lot of decisions to take in every single case.

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There's the decision whether to charge, you've to decide what

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to charge them with, which sounds straightforward and isn't.

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And actually, making decisions is quite a stressful thing,

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because the decisions you are making...

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..they affect people's lives.

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They might make a difference as to

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whether somebody goes to prison or not,

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whether someone is convicted or acquitted,

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whether a victim feels that justice has been done.

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And that, I think, is quite stressful.

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You've to be really resilient.

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You can get so emotionally involved in cases that some cases

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are kind of indelibly marked on your heart, to be honest.

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Gary is currently responsible for 90 different ongoing cases.

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Before he comes to a charging decision in the Maan case,

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he will have to review the transcript of Mr Maan's

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police interview, as well as the statements of over 20 witnesses

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and the report of the police collision expert.

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In a driving fatality case, the decision is expected to take

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about eight working hours,

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but some charging decisions take much longer.

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Maria Corr is a lawyer in the Complex Casework Unit.

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She's been involved in an ongoing police case for the last six months.

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It concerns an organized criminal gang who

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specialise in blowing up cash machines.

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This is a DVD compilation concerning the different attacks on the banks.

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It shows just what they do

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and it shows their level of prof...

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Well, their level of organization.

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That's Barclays in Loughborough.

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You can see just exactly how he's dressed,

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that you just wouldn't get any identification here.

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And what we'll see then is the second offender coming across here.

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Now see, he's coming there.

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And what he's got in there are the oxyacetylene gas canisters

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and that gas has to be pumped into the ATM machine.

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You then need to detonate the gas, the gas build up.

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The alarm will be going now. They know they've got minutes to

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get in to the bank to get the money.

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Now see the rest of the gang coming?

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They are armed with, you can see, big crow bars, angle grinders,

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and they need to get into the bank.

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Now, this is within seconds.

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See those cassettes? They're the cash inside the machine.

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But on different events, we've got different levels of CCTV.

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What we say on all the 28 attacks, this is what they attempted to do.

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Not successful, probably, in half of them.

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But the half they got away with,

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we're talking probably over half a million pounds worth of cash.

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But the difficulty in this case is, you can see,

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although we have 28 sets of CCTV,

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there is no way to identify anybody on that CCTV footage.

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What they'll say is, "It wasn't me who did that."

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Then we'll have to show is, "Yes, it was you."

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In the Maan case, Gary has made his decision.

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Sometimes I think members of the public think that we just

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make decisions off the top of our head.

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Well, it's actually a lot more structured than that.

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So what we have is the code, which sets out a test

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and the test has two limbs to it.

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And what we must do is firstly decide

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if there is enough evidence to prosecute somebody.

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It's not the same test that the jury then goes on to use

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because the jury has got to decide beyond reasonable doubt

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that the defendant is guilty.

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So we are trying to work out whether it's realistically possible

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that a jury will decide beyond reasonable doubt that he is guilty.

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And if so, we must decide whether it's in the public interest

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to prosecute, and if so, what shall we charge him with?

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Gary plans to charge Mr Maan

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with the lesser offence of causing death by careless driving.

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The complexity of driving fatality cases means such decisions

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have to be approved by at least the Deputy Chief Crown Prosecutor.

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Alison is meeting Geoff Fryar, head of the Crown Court Unit,

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to finalise Gary's decision.

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This is on that bypass,

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and it's single carriageway in either direction.

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The suspect is in car.

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No suggestion of going in excess speed.

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It's not a great day weather-wise.

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Very wet, etc, but nobody else seems to be having problems with

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the road conditions as such.

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And the road comes to this bend, he's just carried on

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and hit oncoming car.

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No mechanical failure?

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No mechanical failure.

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He's not on his phone,

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there's no evidence of alcohol.

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It's just quite strange.

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I mean, he says in interview the car gave way

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and he doesn't know what happened and he's sorry.

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But there's nothing to suggest anything evidential.

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I mean, Gary thinks it's death by careless,

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and I think that's probably the right charge.

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Yeah. I think that's right. That was going through my mind,

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it was careless rather than dangerous

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if he's just left the road for a short period,

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albeit tragic consequences.

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But we would struggle to prove the driving was far below.

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You have to look at the type of driving.

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And it's really important that we look at the evidence.

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But we can't charge death by dangerous

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if there isn't enough evidence to charge it,

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because that would just be wrong.

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Mr Maan will now be charged.

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The prosecution evidence will be sent to his defence team

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and they will be given time to perform their own investigations.

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The trial is unlikely to take place for at least another nine months.

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To think about what happened all day, every day, would just be hell.

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Flynn was 11.

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It's a big difference to my commitment.

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One day, you're on the school run and then everything changes.

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And I found while I was looking into how you make typewriters work

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and what you do to clean them,

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I wasn't dwelling on feelings that I didn't want.

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And it's a good, you know, distraction.

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There's all numbers that are just appearing as I'm cleaning.

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All coming back to life.

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That's Flynn's trophy that he won.

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He had the cool role of playing Mr Toad of Toad Hall.

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He came home and put that soldier guy in it.

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So I haven't got the heart to take it out

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and the school have said that I can keep the trophy.

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I was so proud.

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Ah, such a good day.

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The ATM burglaries have generated thousands of pieces of evidence.

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The most crucial come from burglary number 28

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at the Barclays in Warrington.

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This one is interesting in once they do blow it up, they're in and out.

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I don't even know if it's under a minute or two.

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Here we go.

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Crrr!

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And then what they don't know is, in one of the cassette in the money

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is this little tracker device that Barclays Bank have put in.

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20 minutes after leaving the bank, the tracker came to a halt

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in Huyton, Liverpool, at the Lodge Sandy Meadow.

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Home to Kurt Beddoes.

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The property had its own security cameras

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and Maria now has a copy of that footage.

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Here we go, car driving in.

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This is Ellis, I can tell that straightaway. See his hairline?

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Very distinctive headline there and little pointy features.

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And there's Bushell.

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You see? He's slightly chubbier than the others.

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What they don't realise is that the police are on their way.

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Then I think the police then should arrive at about 6:01.

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When the police arrive,

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they all make good their escape from the back.

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This house then backs out onto like a forest type area.

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So when they run away, it's pitch-black.

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The officers had no chance, I think, once they left the house,

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to catch them.

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From the address, the police recovered £97,000.

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They also found the recordings from the home security cameras.

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Within two weeks,

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they had rounded up six people they believed to be part of the gang.

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We now have brilliant CCTV footage of the gang and what they do.

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So, for example, one day we have Mr Beddoes going out

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and coming back with the big piping, the white piping,

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a roll of fuse wire going into the house,

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lovely four-bed paying cash £1,500 a month, beautiful Audi vehicles.

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They are clearly living the lifestyle funded by this

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criminality and unfortunately, they have been very successful up

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until they have been thankfully now caught.

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The challenge for Maria is to decide upon an existing charge

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that can fit this brand-new crime.

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What you're trying to do is get a charge that matches

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the offending, which gives the court the right powers of sentence,

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which isn't over the top, as in unfair for the defendant,

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but which reflects the gravity for the victim.

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There's all sorts of offences on the statute book.

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Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and this is where the law books then

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come in, because we need to research...

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particularly things like explosives we're not particularly au fait with

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because fortunately, we don't have many of.

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So the type of charge and the level of charge can be quite tricky.

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I notice that in the Attorney General's report

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that this offending had only really taken place

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in Europe before now.

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So this is actually the first case of its type, is it?

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It was seen on the Continent beforehand, this specific MO

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-and, er...

-So what have you charged them with, though?

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What I've picked is the Explosive Substances Act

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of 1883, I think it is.

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Erm, and that, to me, fits the bill.

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It's the causing of an explosion by any means. That, for example,

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is gunpowder or whatever, but this, for me, is

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the combination of the oxyacetylene and causing that explosion.

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Burglary commercial premises, ten years statutory maximum.

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My view is that that just didn't reflect the criminality here.

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I think the danger to the public, the causing the explosions,

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the level of professionalism,

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they should be looking at more than ten years, in my humble view.

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They are carrying the canisters in the vehicle.

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They're travelling at 190mph.

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They are involved in police chases.

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The risk to life and limb just to steal money,

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from my point of view, puts them at a level with armed robbery.

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You know, double-figure sentences.

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If there is a conviction, the trial judge will only be able to

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sentence within guidelines set according to the charge.

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Alison's attending a scrutiny panel at CPS headquarters,

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where volunteer community members share their views

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on completed cases.

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It's hosted by the Director of Public Prosecutions,

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Alison Saunders.

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I mean, I'm clear - as is everybody, which is why we're here -

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that religiously aggravated crime is something that is, you know,

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completely insidious.

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Any hate crime is bad so we want to make sure we've got our policies

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right, that we are implementing them and playing our part in this.

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The case today related to postings on a Russian-based website,

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but it is about rightwing extremism.

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Various postings were made by the person believed to be the suspect

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and he was arrested under Section 19 of the Public Order Act.

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So for an incitement to hatred offence.

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He said that he didn't see that there was anything wrong with

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what he'd posted on the website

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because it was a site for like-minded people.

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We got the papers,

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had a look at them and the reviewing lawyer concluded that

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the offence of incitement wasn't made out.

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And the offence he was charged with was

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Section 5 of the Public Order Act.

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He pleaded guilty and received a fine of £65,

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uplifted by £20 for the aggravating element.

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I thought the sentence for this was really...

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I thought it was offensive.

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To fine someone £65

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and to uplift it by £20, I thought was really offensive.

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It was clearly violent language

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but it's been charged right at the lowest end of the scale.

0:19:570:20:00

The reading of the comments as not containing incitement or

0:20:000:20:03

threats is just incomprehensible.

0:20:030:20:05

And the fact that it was put on a forum of ostensibly like-minded

0:20:050:20:09

people actually increases the likelihood of incitement, right?

0:20:090:20:14

Because this is the kind of forum where people of an extremist

0:20:140:20:17

mind-set wind each other up to do this kind of thing.

0:20:170:20:19

"Kick them right back into the sea.

0:20:190:20:21

"I don't want no effing n***** living next door to me."

0:20:210:20:25

So it's just encouraging people.

0:20:250:20:26

How is that is not explained that it's threatening is beyond me.

0:20:260:20:30

One of the things we need to do is explain how we

0:20:300:20:33

make our decisions, why we make our decisions, the sort of factors

0:20:330:20:36

we take into account , which may not always be apparent.

0:20:360:20:40

And it's really important that people understand -

0:20:400:20:42

we don't just make them in a vacuum.

0:20:420:20:44

We balance all sorts of different things,

0:20:440:20:46

so you do have the human rights issues, you do have right to free

0:20:460:20:49

speech, and we've got to balance all of those up, as well as making sure

0:20:490:20:53

the evidence is there in the first place, which is the fundamental bit.

0:20:530:20:56

Is there evidence or not?

0:20:560:20:57

The particular issue

0:20:570:20:58

and the particular difficulty was round what his intent was.

0:20:580:21:02

And whether he intended to stir up religious hatred.

0:21:020:21:07

I think that it's the lack of immediacy that will have

0:21:070:21:10

played upon her thinking when she was writing this advice.

0:21:100:21:13

He wasn't saying, "Let's all go and meet up at the park and go

0:21:130:21:17

"and beat people up, etc, in the next half an hour."

0:21:170:21:20

These were comments being made.

0:21:200:21:22

There was no timeframe placed upon them.

0:21:220:21:25

That is very important in these types of cases

0:21:250:21:28

because we are governed by the policies and procedures

0:21:280:21:30

and the case law which we have to function under.

0:21:300:21:33

I've just been bunny shopping.

0:21:360:21:38

It's, erm, been a bit too quiet around here

0:21:400:21:44

so this is great excitement.

0:21:440:21:47

It's now over 11 months

0:21:480:21:50

since the death of the youngest of Nicky's three sons, Flynn.

0:21:500:21:53

Despite Mr Maan being charged with causing death by careless driving,

0:21:530:21:57

no trial date has yet been set.

0:21:570:22:00

So Nick has two children and I have my three boys and our families

0:22:000:22:05

came together last year and, yeah, it was a pretty lovely life.

0:22:050:22:11

You can see their little ears, Dyl. Can you manage them?

0:22:110:22:16

Yeah.

0:22:160:22:17

'But on that day something happened and it changed my life forever,

0:22:170:22:22

'my family's life forever'

0:22:220:22:25

and it took Flynn's life.

0:22:250:22:27

And I want to know why.

0:22:290:22:30

We're going to put them in the greenhouse, Dyl.

0:22:320:22:35

'When all the bodies meet to decide when the trial is,

0:22:350:22:39

'it will be 14 months after the accident.'

0:22:390:22:43

That is when they're going to set a day.

0:22:430:22:45

Not the trial, just talk about a day.

0:22:450:22:48

So the trial may be set for the following year.

0:22:500:22:54

I don't understand why we can't have closure before.

0:22:550:22:59

To try and speed up the case, Gary is entering it

0:23:010:23:04

into an early guilty plea scheme.

0:23:040:23:07

We've had no indication from the defendant in interview or

0:23:070:23:11

through his solicitor that he intends to plead guilty.

0:23:110:23:14

But the evidence would clearly suggest that the manner

0:23:140:23:16

of his driving was careless.

0:23:160:23:18

The idea with an early guilty plea, quite simply, is to put

0:23:180:23:22

the defence on the spot.

0:23:220:23:23

If the defendant doesn't want to plead guilty, he doesn't have to,

0:23:230:23:26

he can bring the case out of the scheme.

0:23:260:23:30

But the maximum credit comes by pleading guilty at the first

0:23:300:23:33

opportunity.

0:23:330:23:34

If the defendant pleads guilty now, saving the need for a trial,

0:23:340:23:38

and for any witnesses to give evidence,

0:23:380:23:41

he'll be rewarded with a discount to his sentence of a third.

0:23:410:23:44

What we're trying to do is make sure that those cases

0:23:450:23:48

that are going to be guilty pleas are in and out of the system

0:23:480:23:52

very quickly because they're much easier to deal with.

0:23:520:23:55

It means that the punishment can be also much more

0:23:550:23:57

proximate to the offending, which has more impact.

0:23:570:24:00

But what we can't control, of course,

0:24:000:24:03

is what the defence want to do.

0:24:030:24:06

So if they want to put us to proof about everything,

0:24:060:24:10

we have to answer that. And that means that the timescale's extend.

0:24:100:24:13

Mr Maan will be given two weeks to decide

0:24:140:24:17

whether he wants to make an early guilty plea.

0:24:170:24:20

So 15 discs will be in relation to 15 scenes of the CSI

0:24:200:24:24

photos at this stage.

0:24:240:24:25

And each disc, each scene will have its own disc.

0:24:250:24:28

In an attempt to avoid a complicated and expensive trial,

0:24:280:24:32

Maria has also offered the defendants in the ATM case

0:24:320:24:35

early guilty pleas.

0:24:350:24:37

We tried to put this into the early guilty plea scheme.

0:24:370:24:40

Er, no-one was having it.

0:24:400:24:42

And none of the defence would agree to that happening.

0:24:420:24:45

Unable to prove the identity of the perpetrators through the banks'

0:24:450:24:49

CCTV, Maria is going to try to prove to a jury that the defendants were

0:24:490:24:54

at the scenes of the crimes through using their mobile phone data.

0:24:540:24:59

The data itself when plotted, pretty much tells the story already.

0:24:590:25:04

So can you just talk me through this document, then?

0:25:040:25:07

This is for the cell site for Beddoes going down to,

0:25:070:25:10

erm, Coventry.

0:25:100:25:13

As a visual for the jury, it's relatively simple, isn't it?

0:25:130:25:16

Because what you can say is, when you use a phone, it leaves

0:25:160:25:20

a trace and this shows here that I start from Merseyside

0:25:200:25:26

and I make my way all the way down to Oxfordshire and that's very good.

0:25:260:25:32

The alarm goes off at 2.26 and heigh-ho,

0:25:320:25:35

your phone is hitting there.

0:25:350:25:36

So that's... that's very good evidence.

0:25:360:25:39

Maria now has 3,000 pieces of evidence from which

0:25:410:25:44

to try and build a case.

0:25:440:25:46

This is Unit 18 in Huyton,

0:25:460:25:48

and one of our defendants was seen

0:25:480:25:51

acting a bit suspiciously round here.

0:25:510:25:54

The officers then decide to do a search warrant at this lock up

0:25:540:25:57

and it was just amazing.

0:25:570:26:00

When they open it up we've got this stolen Audi vehicle.

0:26:000:26:04

But you can see here how they've taken the glove box off

0:26:040:26:07

and put in the oxyacetylene canisters.

0:26:070:26:09

We've then got these plastic bags and inside were the robbers' kits.

0:26:090:26:14

So Whittingham, he was caught outside, his DNA is on the glove.

0:26:140:26:19

Now we have this printer that can print numberplates.

0:26:190:26:23

So we can put that on the stolen vehicle.

0:26:230:26:26

Putting every little piece of the jigsaw together,

0:26:260:26:28

it becomes, builds, in my view an overwhelming case,

0:26:280:26:31

really, against Beddoes and Cartwright.

0:26:310:26:34

The CPS has just heard that Mr Maan also intends to reject

0:26:360:26:39

his early guilty plea.

0:26:390:26:41

The case will go to trial.

0:26:410:26:45

I can't see what his defence is.

0:26:450:26:46

No, no. I can't either.

0:26:460:26:48

Maybe it's psychological, I don't know.

0:26:480:26:50

It's the unwillingness to admit that you are responsible

0:26:500:26:53

for the death of somebody else.

0:26:530:26:54

Postponing the evil day. I don't know.

0:26:540:26:57

Who knows what goes through the minds of defendants?

0:26:570:27:00

It could be a whole variety of things, really.

0:27:000:27:02

Nobody sets out in their car to kill somebody, do they?

0:27:020:27:05

No, and I mean, it's the one offence that could lead to

0:27:050:27:09

a law-abiding citizen ending up

0:27:090:27:11

appearing before the Crown Court facing a prison sentence.

0:27:110:27:15

Nicky has received an e-mail from her family liaison officer.

0:27:180:27:22

I've had a request from the CPS asking if I would

0:27:220:27:26

like a meeting with them regard...

0:27:260:27:28

I need me glasses on!

0:27:280:27:30

I've only just started wearing them. Oh, that's better.

0:27:300:27:33

Erm...

0:27:330:27:35

..with them regarding the progress of the case

0:27:350:27:39

from their point of view.

0:27:390:27:41

It's completely up to me.

0:27:410:27:43

The bottom line is that the Crown Prosecutor

0:27:430:27:47

is prosecuting on behalf of the state, not on behalf of the victim.

0:27:470:27:53

But of course there's no other party in that courtroom

0:27:530:27:57

who's representing the victim,

0:27:570:28:00

so in a way, we feel as if we are.

0:28:000:28:04

I think that's changed probably over the 20-odd years

0:28:060:28:09

I've been prosecuting.

0:28:090:28:11

We didn't really used to meet victims when I first started.

0:28:110:28:16

And even if they were giving evidence in court, there was a very

0:28:160:28:21

much a hands-off and a nervousness of even speaking to a victim.

0:28:210:28:26

But now the direction of travel is to be more

0:28:260:28:29

and more involved with the victims of crime.

0:28:290:28:32

Almost a year after her son died,

0:28:340:28:36

Nicky will have her first meeting with the CPS.

0:28:360:28:40

Before we start can we offer our sincere condolences for

0:28:400:28:42

the loss of your son?

0:28:420:28:44

We appreciate it's a very difficult time for you.

0:28:440:28:47

-We thoroughly understand that.

-Thank you.

0:28:470:28:49

What we can't do is discuss the evidence with you.

0:28:490:28:52

You probably appreciate that because you will be a witness in due course.

0:28:520:28:56

I just don't understand how he can say he's not guilty of driving

0:28:560:29:01

carelessly when his car was on my side of the road.

0:29:010:29:05

It...

0:29:050:29:06

There's a growing feeling of...

0:29:060:29:10

..it's going towards anger

0:29:100:29:13

because if you can't say what happened,

0:29:130:29:17

isn't that careless by default?

0:29:170:29:20

-I don't understand.

-Well, I understand your...

0:29:200:29:22

I understand your... the statement you made

0:29:220:29:26

and your confusion over that.

0:29:260:29:27

-Yeah.

-I want to avoid discussion of the evidence.

0:29:270:29:30

We...We've got his plea there.

0:29:300:29:33

We'll have to see what happens in a couple of months' time.

0:29:330:29:35

Erm, we could speculate and sometimes that doesn't help.

0:29:350:29:38

The questions that I wanted answers to I couldn't be told

0:29:420:29:46

because I'm a witness and I have to go in court untarnished.

0:29:460:29:51

And that actually is quite isolating.

0:29:510:29:55

For them, it's evidence...

0:29:550:29:58

It's my life.

0:30:000:30:02

I want to know what other people saw.

0:30:020:30:04

I want answers to my questions

0:30:040:30:08

and I don't want them a year and a half down the line.

0:30:080:30:12

Having said that, when you're talking to the people face-to-face,

0:30:130:30:17

they can see your eyes, they can see what you're going through,

0:30:170:30:23

that you are not just that name on that form

0:30:230:30:26

or that it was just a schoolboy.

0:30:260:30:29

It's not just a schoolboy, it's my son.

0:30:290:30:32

At Liverpool Crown Court there's a plea and case management hearing

0:30:370:30:40

to set the trial date in the ATM case.

0:30:400:30:44

Three of the seven defendants have so far appeared.

0:30:440:30:48

A guilty plea at this stage would mean a 25% discount

0:30:480:30:51

in their sentence.

0:30:510:30:53

The good news is that Beddoes and Cartwright pleaded guilty.

0:30:540:30:58

The other person who was represented was Bushell, who indicated

0:30:580:31:01

a not guilty plea, which was surprising considering he was

0:31:010:31:04

caught on the CCTV coming back with the proceeds of the crime.

0:31:040:31:08

But, erm, apparently he was having a walk near McDonald's and they

0:31:080:31:12

drove past and collected him and he went for a McDonald's with them.

0:31:120:31:16

Hopefully the jury will laugh that out of court.

0:31:160:31:19

But it is a lot of extra work to make it a trial-ready file,

0:31:190:31:22

but so be it. Obviously, he's a right to plead not guilty

0:31:220:31:26

and we have to prove our case.

0:31:260:31:27

'It used to be the case that a defendant could just plead

0:31:290:31:31

'not guilty and say, "You prove the case against us."

0:31:310:31:34

'And we would go to trial'

0:31:340:31:36

and we would have to bring every

0:31:360:31:38

single piece of evidence before the court.

0:31:380:31:40

Actually, what we have now done is said, "Absolutely right - if you're

0:31:400:31:44

"pleading not guilty it's for the prosecution to prove the case

0:31:440:31:47

"but tell us which bits of the case are the ones that you're disputing."

0:31:470:31:52

Mr Maan's lawyer has just sent his defence statement to the CPS.

0:31:570:32:01

So what's he saying? Memory test. Save me reading it.

0:32:030:32:06

Effectively, that there was a... there was a sudden deluge of rain,

0:32:060:32:09

erm, heavy rain, which lasted approximately ten seconds -

0:32:090:32:12

this is a precis - which caused his car to aquaplane.

0:32:120:32:16

I think the phrase used at some stage in that -

0:32:160:32:19

he was a passenger in a sliding car, which he couldn't control,

0:32:190:32:23

through no fault of his own.

0:32:230:32:25

If it was this deluge, which we don't accept,

0:32:250:32:30

then you drive to the weather conditions.

0:32:300:32:32

I mean, it's like on the motorway the other day it was torrential.

0:32:320:32:36

I could barely see and I absolutely slowed down because your windows...

0:32:360:32:40

Or the alternative is, it's not a motorway, you could indicate

0:32:400:32:43

-and pull over and stop, if it was that bad.

-Yes.

0:32:430:32:46

Well, to put it crudely, if the weather is that bad,

0:32:460:32:48

-it's not all bets are off, legally, is it?

-No.

0:32:480:32:50

-And therefore you've no culpability...

-No.

0:32:500:32:52

..if you plough into somebody coming in the opposite direction.

0:32:520:32:56

When the defendant is spoken to at the scene,

0:32:560:33:00

what does he say, initially?

0:33:000:33:02

It's such a long time ago since I read the file.

0:33:020:33:06

I know. That's the problem. I mean, that's...

0:33:060:33:08

really the problem for the witnesses now, isn't it?

0:33:080:33:12

I mean, it's awful to know that a piece of driving has taken

0:33:120:33:15

the life of a child, but...it's just prolonging the agony, really.

0:33:150:33:19

Yes, it's Constable Roberts.

0:33:200:33:22

He stood near the Porsche, was on the pavement.

0:33:220:33:25

"I could see an Asian male who appeared to be in shock

0:33:250:33:27

"and he was visibly upset and shaking

0:33:270:33:30

"and he said, 'The car just gave way.

0:33:300:33:32

" 'I don't know what happened. I'm so sorry.'

0:33:320:33:34

"And I made a note of his comments in my pocket notebook."

0:33:340:33:37

It doesn't say... Interestingly, it doesn't say...

0:33:370:33:39

-"There's such a heavy downpour...

-"There's such a heavy downpour

0:33:390:33:42

"and the road was awash, I couldn't see what was happening."

0:33:420:33:46

The prosecution team now has to get the case ready for trial.

0:33:460:33:50

In the Crown Court, when the case is decided by the jury,

0:33:520:33:55

roughly 40% end with a not guilty verdict.

0:33:550:33:59

And the next case involved damage to a mosque

0:33:590:34:03

and a copy of the Koran had been thrown on to the floor

0:34:030:34:06

and ripped and there was also urine on the carpet.

0:34:060:34:09

Really unpleasant incident, actually.

0:34:090:34:11

The jury, erm, came back with a not guilty verdict.

0:34:110:34:16

It seems to me the key to this case was proving that the suspect

0:34:160:34:19

actually entered the mosque.

0:34:190:34:20

-Yeah.

-It was.

0:34:200:34:22

There doesn't seem to be any mention of fingerprints.

0:34:220:34:25

Someone's picked up a Koran, someone has pulled shelves off the wall.

0:34:250:34:29

This may just be my ignorance

0:34:290:34:30

but can you extract DNA from urine or not?

0:34:300:34:33

That's what I was going to say.

0:34:330:34:34

You should be... you see them in American shows.

0:34:340:34:37

There seems to be there is a lot of missed opportunities.

0:34:370:34:40

For me, there are significant failings on behalf

0:34:400:34:46

of the officers that investigated this crime from the moment

0:34:460:34:51

they actually arrived and then their inability to respond

0:34:510:34:56

promptly to the CPS request to complete the outstanding actions.

0:34:560:35:02

This whole case, you know, even if it had been non-racially aggravated,

0:35:020:35:07

is a complete disaster.

0:35:070:35:09

The fact it's religiously aggravated just makes it even worse

0:35:090:35:13

and I suppose that for me, listening to you, the lesson

0:35:130:35:16

we need to take away is, actually, any victim faced with this level

0:35:160:35:21

of service would end up losing faith in the criminal justice system,

0:35:210:35:26

wouldn't they?

0:35:260:35:27

An opening in the schedule at Chester Crown Court

0:35:300:35:33

means the Maan case is being brought forward four months.

0:35:330:35:36

I've had an official letter

0:35:370:35:40

that has called me as a witness...

0:35:400:35:43

..which is...very weird.

0:35:460:35:49

"As a witness likely to give important evidence,

0:35:520:35:56

"you must attend." Underlined, bold.

0:35:560:35:59

"You must attend."

0:35:590:36:02

That is really scary.

0:36:020:36:04

That I must go and tell

0:36:040:36:09

a room of strangers

0:36:090:36:12

how my son died next to me.

0:36:120:36:15

"If you've not already done so,

0:36:150:36:16

"please consider making a victim personal statement...

0:36:160:36:20

"..which will outline to the court

0:36:230:36:25

"the impact that this crime has had on you."

0:36:250:36:27

I'm not a victim and I don't want to be referred to as one.

0:36:320:36:38

What I'm doing and what my family are doing, and Flynn's memory...

0:36:380:36:44

is...surviving and living.

0:36:440:36:48

The worst thing has happened.

0:36:500:36:53

Nothing can be as bad as that day.

0:36:540:36:56

With that as my benchmark,

0:36:570:36:59

I'm not concerned about going to the courtroom.

0:36:590:37:04

I'm scared.

0:37:090:37:10

I'm scar...

0:37:100:37:12

With the trial approaching, the CPS have hired an external

0:37:160:37:20

barrister, who will try and prove to the jury that

0:37:200:37:23

Mr Maan was guilty of causing the death of Flynn Morrissey

0:37:230:37:26

by careless driving.

0:37:260:37:28

Now, if he's driving properly and

0:37:280:37:31

attentively in the conditions in which he finds himself,

0:37:310:37:35

he shouldn't cross the central reservation

0:37:350:37:37

into the path of someone else.

0:37:370:37:38

That's the sort of starting point for this, isn't it?

0:37:380:37:41

But something has made that happen.

0:37:410:37:42

Gareth Roberts has just received a report from a road collision

0:37:420:37:45

investigator appointed by the defence.

0:37:450:37:48

He says the collision was due to aquaplaning.

0:37:480:37:52

He says, "It is my opinion the loss of control was

0:37:520:37:54

"caused by the vehicle aquaplaning, following what was described

0:37:540:37:57

"by the first police officer to arrive at the scene as significant

0:37:570:38:00

"surface water running across the carriageway from left to right."

0:38:000:38:03

Let's take it to an extreme.

0:38:030:38:04

If you're going down round a corner and the car loses control

0:38:040:38:07

and you don't do anything about it,

0:38:070:38:09

you keep rotating in that direction.

0:38:090:38:11

You would go round.

0:38:110:38:13

But he says he went to the left and then to the right.

0:38:130:38:15

But he says he didn't do anything about it.

0:38:150:38:18

Now, to go from the left to the right,

0:38:180:38:19

he's got to have done something about it.

0:38:190:38:21

The car will not do that on its own.

0:38:210:38:23

And for it to go from one way to the other, there has got to be grip.

0:38:230:38:27

And therefore he is not aquaplaning at that time.

0:38:270:38:30

If he aquaplaned, it happened at the very, very beginning and then

0:38:300:38:33

his overreaction to the aquaplaning took him down into impact.

0:38:330:38:37

Now, the calculation I've put...

0:38:370:38:40

I've used sliding friction cos I did skid tests at the scene.

0:38:400:38:44

So the total distance of perceive, react

0:38:440:38:47

-and slide to a stop of 72 metres...

-Yeah.

0:38:470:38:49

..takes into consideration sliding friction.

0:38:490:38:52

The conclusion you came to is that if he had been driving properly

0:38:520:38:54

he would have been able to stop.

0:38:540:38:56

Even if at any point during that

0:38:560:38:57

-whole scenario he hit the brakes...

-Yeah.

0:38:570:39:00

..it wouldn't have travelled the 90 metres.

0:39:000:39:02

It would still have stopped. It might have travelled the 90

0:39:020:39:04

-metres, but it wouldn't have been doing 30mph at the end.

-Yeah.

0:39:040:39:07

It doesn't seem to me as if he's done any braking.

0:39:070:39:10

So all he's done is try to correct, correct,

0:39:100:39:12

correct and then we've got the collision.

0:39:120:39:14

I think that's a devastating point, actually.

0:39:140:39:16

I think when a jury hear that

0:39:160:39:18

if this gentleman had hit his brakes properly,

0:39:180:39:20

when he found himself losing control of the car,

0:39:200:39:24

there's a very good chance

0:39:240:39:25

he would have stopped prior to the collision

0:39:250:39:28

and the collision might have been a prang

0:39:280:39:31

rather than the devastating collision which we have.

0:39:310:39:34

When I'm getting ready,

0:39:360:39:38

it's really weird because I can hear Flynn.

0:39:380:39:41

Cos when I used to get ready before and he'd come in

0:39:420:39:45

and go, "You look nice," and I can hear his voice.

0:39:450:39:48

So when I'm putting my make-up on,

0:39:480:39:50

it feels like the right thing to be doing.

0:39:500:39:53

Cos I think sometimes

0:39:550:39:57

you could become aware about what other people think.

0:39:570:40:01

So if you go out there and you've got your red lipstick on,

0:40:010:40:04

it doesn't really fit with the image of a mum

0:40:040:40:08

who's lost her little boy, really, so...

0:40:080:40:12

I don't know...

0:40:120:40:14

It shouldn't matter what people think.

0:40:140:40:17

But it does, you know?

0:40:190:40:21

But I'm looking forward to tonight.

0:40:230:40:26

It's always good fun.

0:40:260:40:29

And we do it for Flynn.

0:40:290:40:31

Be the mum that he would recognise and he would recognise me, you know.

0:40:310:40:36

Sometimes I cry and that's OK,

0:40:360:40:40

but I could just imagine him

0:40:400:40:43

watching me and just going, "What you doing?

0:40:430:40:45

"What you doing that for?"

0:40:450:40:47

So I get up and put my lippy on

0:40:470:40:51

and go and party.

0:40:510:40:52

# Sometimes I feel I've got to run away

0:40:540:40:59

# I've got to get away... #

0:40:590:41:02

Prosecuting somebody, hopefully it will get them justice but it

0:41:020:41:05

doesn't mean that everything's rosy at the end of the prosecution.

0:41:050:41:08

We're not there to mend things, cos we can't.

0:41:080:41:11

That awful thing has happened to them

0:41:110:41:14

and all we can do is prosecute.

0:41:140:41:16

The ATM case will soon be in court.

0:41:180:41:21

There are already 327 witness

0:41:210:41:23

statements and 2,500 pages of exhibits

0:41:230:41:28

and Maria is still adding to the evidence.

0:41:280:41:32

Now, Mr Bushell is someone who's actually seen

0:41:320:41:37

red-handed at the address. His DNA is recovered there.

0:41:370:41:40

Now, the further enquiries

0:41:400:41:42

since he's pleaded not guilty have been interesting.

0:41:420:41:44

On his phone, there's a jokey photograph of him

0:41:440:41:47

pointing to an open ATM and laughing.

0:41:470:41:51

I think that's really good. I think a jury will like that.

0:41:510:41:53

-Yeah.

-Colourful.

0:41:530:41:55

He then, in his defence case statement,

0:41:550:41:58

said he was in Spain for a lot of the time.

0:41:580:42:00

Well, his phone now, we're locating him back in England so he's...

0:42:000:42:04

So he wasn't in Spain.

0:42:040:42:05

So he's telling lies and juries don't like people who tell lies.

0:42:050:42:08

So we've got that. We then have Whittingham.

0:42:080:42:12

We finally managed to get into his phone and came out with this,

0:42:120:42:16

which was brilliant.

0:42:160:42:18

Photos on his phone?

0:42:180:42:19

Right, this kit was found in unit 18.

0:42:190:42:22

On Whittingham's phone, there's a picture. That's Whittingham.

0:42:220:42:25

-A picture of himself?

-That's such good evidence for us, though.

0:42:250:42:28

I think it's brilliant and I just said, if I'm sitting on a jury now,

0:42:280:42:32

I think you've partial DNA on that glove, you've got a photo

0:42:320:42:34

of yourself wearing that because you're a career criminal.

0:42:340:42:37

And you couldn't have chosen something more distinctive.

0:42:370:42:39

That's what I mean. What an idiot. So, erm,

0:42:390:42:42

that's only come in today so I'm really pleased with that.

0:42:420:42:44

That's really good.

0:42:440:42:45

They should be pleading and that makes me so cross when they don't.

0:42:450:42:49

With the Maan trial imminent, Nicky and her mother are going to

0:42:490:42:53

meet the prosecution barrister before he questions Nicky in court.

0:42:530:42:57

These cases are very, very tricky in that the degree of his bad

0:42:570:43:04

driving is quite subtle, if I can put it that way.

0:43:040:43:07

It's not...

0:43:070:43:09

Are you able to clarify what

0:43:090:43:10

-your ideas are about that careless driving?

-Yep.

0:43:100:43:13

-Cos I know what I saw.

-Yep.

0:43:130:43:14

I'm a little bit wary of talking to you too much about it

0:43:140:43:17

because I don't want to colour your evidence, you know?

0:43:170:43:19

I take my case from you, not the other way, if you see what

0:43:190:43:22

I mean. Oh, thank you. I appreciate that.

0:43:220:43:25

What I saw gave me the impression...

0:43:250:43:28

..that there was a certain manoeuvre going to be...

0:43:310:43:34

Yeah, you thought he was thinking about overtaking, didn't you?

0:43:340:43:38

Bearing in mind that I'm a driver with all those years

0:43:380:43:40

experience, that is exactly what it looked like to me.

0:43:400:43:44

In that way, your evidence is significant.

0:43:440:43:47

You're not coming just as a mother to sort of...

0:43:470:43:50

to add some colour to the life which was lost.

0:43:500:43:53

-Absolutely not.

-You're also coming

0:43:530:43:54

as a witness of fact to tell the jury what it is you saw.

0:43:540:43:57

And then after that, Mr Dawson will ask you some questions.

0:43:570:44:00

But what I know he will not do is bully you or shout at you.

0:44:000:44:04

It's not that kind of case.

0:44:040:44:06

He can bring it on. I know what I saw.

0:44:060:44:08

Yeah, I can see that.

0:44:080:44:10

I can see you're pretty robust

0:44:100:44:12

and you'd handle yourself absolutely fantastically.

0:44:120:44:14

I'll be honest with you, I'm not expecting a conviction.

0:44:140:44:17

But at the same time, if I didn't think there was any chance

0:44:170:44:20

-I'd have told the CPS a long time ago...

-Yeah.

0:44:200:44:23

..and that's not the case here, but it is tricky.

0:44:230:44:26

It is a very challenging case.

0:44:260:44:29

Part of my frustration is

0:44:320:44:35

over the months you embark on a journey

0:44:350:44:38

and as we're beginning to walk again after, you know,

0:44:380:44:46

just being bulldozed over by this terrible thing,

0:44:460:44:51

all of a sudden we've got to go back to that day,

0:44:510:44:56

remember exactly who we were, how it made us feel, what was

0:44:560:45:00

the weather like and it feels...

0:45:000:45:05

Well, I said to you, it feels cruel.

0:45:050:45:08

I think it's a mistake to get any sort of attachment

0:45:090:45:12

to any sort of outcome.

0:45:120:45:14

Provided what happens is fair and right,

0:45:140:45:17

then I think that's all anybody can ask for.

0:45:170:45:20

Nicky is the first of 13 witnesses for the prosecution.

0:45:230:45:26

She is cross-examined by the defence barrister for 24 minutes.

0:45:500:45:54

She was fantastic as a witness, actually,

0:46:150:46:18

because she was forceful

0:46:180:46:20

and clearly telling the truth.

0:46:200:46:22

She stood up very strongly to the cross-examination of her,

0:46:220:46:25

which was hard.

0:46:250:46:27

But she was... At no point, was she in any way hysterical

0:46:270:46:30

or excessively emotional, or anything like that,

0:46:300:46:33

which - without sounding, sort of, cold -

0:46:330:46:35

is quite important in a witness.

0:46:350:46:37

It was just like being at the top of a bungee,

0:46:370:46:39

just that...

0:46:390:46:41

moment before you go...

0:46:410:46:43

Just so...

0:46:450:46:46

..scary,

0:46:490:46:51

but it needs to be

0:46:510:46:54

examined properly for Flynn -

0:46:540:46:57

to know what the truth is.

0:46:570:46:59

In Liverpool,

0:47:010:47:03

after five weeks of the trial,

0:47:030:47:04

the ATM case is drawing to a close.

0:47:040:47:07

Anya did a really, really excellent closing.

0:47:070:47:09

I'll give you an example.

0:47:090:47:11

Thomas Whittingham, month of August.

0:47:110:47:13

Anya goes through, laboriously,

0:47:130:47:15

each day in August,

0:47:150:47:16

you go to sleep in Widnes, you wake in Widnes.

0:47:160:47:19

And really interestingly,

0:47:190:47:20

the three days he didn't do that

0:47:200:47:22

-were the three dates of the ATM attacks.

-Funny that.

0:47:220:47:25

It was such an own goal.

0:47:250:47:26

It was brilliant.

0:47:260:47:27

I feel a lot more confident.

0:47:270:47:29

That's really good.

0:47:290:47:30

I think it's come together really well.

0:47:300:47:32

Today, the jury is expected to deliver their verdict.

0:47:320:47:35

It's quite an odd feeling, to be honest.

0:47:350:47:40

As a prosecutor, what you're meant to do is strive for justice

0:47:400:47:43

but if you think somebody is guilty

0:47:430:47:45

and you've worked on the case for a long time,

0:47:450:47:48

you do want a conviction.

0:47:480:47:50

And for someone like Maria,

0:47:500:47:51

where it's been her life's work for practically a year,

0:47:510:47:54

she'll certainly be quite nervous now sitting in court, I suspect.

0:47:540:47:58

And we're just sitting, waiting from afar.

0:47:580:48:01

Right, OK.

0:48:070:48:08

What's happened? Right, brilliant. OK.

0:48:110:48:13

Can you come back to us, Jack?

0:48:130:48:15

Thank you. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.

0:48:150:48:17

What's happened?

0:48:170:48:20

Guilty for Bushell, Guilty for Whittingham.

0:48:200:48:22

There are now two guilty verdicts

0:48:240:48:27

to add to the earlier three guilty pleas.

0:48:270:48:29

There is also one hung jury decision and one acquittal.

0:48:290:48:32

We've got an acquittal.

0:48:340:48:35

So be it.

0:48:430:48:44

Move on.

0:48:450:48:47

You have to be quite dispassionate really.

0:48:490:48:52

Our job is to put the case before the court,

0:48:520:48:55

but then we've to just allow justice to run its course.

0:48:550:48:58

We always try and say in the press

0:48:580:49:00

that we respect the decision of the jury

0:49:000:49:04

because we have to and we do.

0:49:040:49:07

There is a feeling though, when you've done a lot of work

0:49:100:49:12

and you think there should have been convictions obviously.

0:49:120:49:16

There is that.

0:49:180:49:19

But I mean, this is a good result.

0:49:190:49:20

We've got at least four offenders found guilty, or pleaded guilty,

0:49:200:49:24

so that's a result in itself.

0:49:240:49:25

At Chester Crown Court, it's the third day of proceedings.

0:49:270:49:31

Mr Maan is due to give his version of events.

0:49:310:49:34

The defendant is cross-examined for 29 minutes.

0:49:580:50:01

I thought his explanation was all right.

0:50:150:50:18

He gave it, and he...

0:50:180:50:20

But at the same time, there were a number of inconsistencies

0:50:200:50:23

and there were a number of times

0:50:230:50:24

I thought he was wriggling a little bit.

0:50:240:50:26

But I'm not surprised about that

0:50:260:50:28

because he's in a difficult position.

0:50:280:50:30

But he was properly upset

0:50:300:50:32

by what had happened.

0:50:320:50:34

Someone who a jury will think,

0:50:340:50:36

"If I want to err on his side, I will do so cos I don't dislike him,

0:50:360:50:40

"I don't hate him."

0:50:400:50:42

Which is important in all cases really,

0:50:420:50:44

especially when you're defending.

0:50:440:50:46

Tomorrow, the defence expert will testify,

0:50:460:50:49

then the two sides will present their closing arguments.

0:50:490:50:53

In the ATM case, there'll be a final hearing

0:50:540:50:57

for the judge to decide the defendants' sentences.

0:50:570:51:00

This is actually the bundle that has been put together

0:51:000:51:05

just for the sentencing hearing.

0:51:050:51:07

It's apparent as you read through these things,

0:51:070:51:10

that just sentencing somebody isn't that straightforward.

0:51:100:51:13

They don't stick a finger in the air and make up a sentence.

0:51:130:51:17

The interesting thing here is,

0:51:170:51:19

because the offending is quite unusual,

0:51:190:51:22

there aren't any sentencing guidelines to help us.

0:51:220:51:26

The maximum sentence here for the explosives offence

0:51:260:51:30

is life imprisonment.

0:51:300:51:33

For the burglary aspect to it,

0:51:330:51:36

it's ten years' imprisonment.

0:51:360:51:38

You've then got the previous convictions of all the defendants.

0:51:380:51:42

For example, one of the defendants here

0:51:420:51:44

has got 60 previous convictions

0:51:440:51:47

and he's only 20.

0:51:470:51:49

And the judge will take this into account when sentencing.

0:51:510:51:54

So, the more previous convictions you've got,

0:51:540:51:57

the more likely you are to get a more significant sentence

0:51:570:52:01

the next time round.

0:52:010:52:03

But ballpark figure is, sort of, double figures.

0:52:030:52:05

Early double figures.

0:52:050:52:06

I might well be completely wrong now.

0:52:070:52:09

I shall look a fool if I am.

0:52:090:52:12

The judge declares that this was,

0:52:130:52:15

"Undoubtedly serious organized crime on a significant scale,"

0:52:150:52:19

that these were "uncontrolled explosions,"

0:52:190:52:22

and, "although they may not have been intended to cause death

0:52:220:52:25

"or serious injury,

0:52:250:52:26

"nonetheless they were very fortunate

0:52:260:52:28

"no-one was hurt or killed."

0:52:280:52:30

I'll go and tell Claire what happened,

0:52:360:52:39

so you can go to the pub if you want.

0:52:390:52:42

More than my guess of 12?

0:52:420:52:44

Yes, and that was my guess as well.

0:52:440:52:47

-Oh, was it?

-Yes.

-Right.

0:52:470:52:49

The two who were leading roles

0:52:490:52:51

each got 17 years...

0:52:510:52:53

Oh, goodness. Yeah, OK. Oh, wow.

0:52:530:52:55

..with eight years concurrent for the conspiracy to burgle.

0:52:550:52:59

Quite a significant sentence,

0:52:590:53:01

bearing in mind, he'd given them 25% credit for their guilty pleas.

0:53:010:53:05

Gosh, that's huge, isn't it? Really well done.

0:53:050:53:07

And as Maria was saying,

0:53:070:53:08

it just shows that we picked the right charges.

0:53:080:53:11

And that's what we said right at the beginning of the case

0:53:110:53:13

is we wanted to make sure that this doesn't pay.

0:53:130:53:16

-Didn't we?

-Yes, that's right.

0:53:160:53:18

That was the whole kind of thought when we first started to look at it.

0:53:180:53:21

-This is a new series of attacks.

-Yes. Yes.

0:53:210:53:24

-So, yeah, it's a really good result.

-Yeah.

0:53:240:53:26

At Chester Crown Court,

0:53:290:53:30

the jury is now deciding

0:53:300:53:32

whether they think the prosecution has proved

0:53:320:53:34

that Mr Maan is guilty

0:53:340:53:36

of causing death by careless driving.

0:53:360:53:39

It's not a jury I'd want to be on

0:53:390:53:41

because the issues are quite complicated in a way.

0:53:410:53:44

No-one has been able to say,

0:53:440:53:46

"This is the exact reason why he lost control of his car."

0:53:460:53:50

So, you're saying to a jury,

0:53:500:53:51

"I want you to be sure that he lost control due to carelessness."

0:53:510:53:55

Even I don't know why it happened

0:53:550:53:57

and that feels a little bit odd.

0:53:570:53:59

It's a case which, if I was on the other side, defending it,

0:53:590:54:03

I'd have thought, straight away, "I'll win this."

0:54:030:54:05

Because you think all you have to do is, without sounding arrogant -

0:54:050:54:08

but you'll think all you have to do

0:54:080:54:10

is put enough doubt into the minds of the jury

0:54:100:54:12

and then they should acquit.

0:54:120:54:14

But saying that, as the week has gone on,

0:54:140:54:16

I think the jury got enough of what I was trying to convey.

0:54:160:54:20

I hope so, but who knows?

0:54:200:54:21

It's the fairest way to find...

0:54:230:54:27

the closest thing we can to the truth.

0:54:270:54:30

Whatever the outcome is...

0:54:310:54:34

I trust that outcome.

0:54:340:54:36

I've been there every day and...

0:54:360:54:38

..it's fair and it's just.

0:54:400:54:42

After two-and-a-half hours, the jury returns.

0:54:460:54:49

They find Mr Maan guilty.

0:54:490:54:52

It didn't take the jury that long.

0:54:520:54:54

I would have thought they might have been out for longer,

0:54:540:54:56

which means that, at the end of the day, they were fairly sure.

0:54:560:54:59

They were very sure.

0:54:590:55:00

Mr Maan does not receive a custodial sentence.

0:55:000:55:03

The judge decides to give him a 12 month community order

0:55:030:55:06

of 150 hours of unpaid work.

0:55:060:55:09

He's also disqualified from driving for 12 months

0:55:090:55:12

with no re-test required

0:55:120:55:14

and ordered to pay £4,200 in costs.

0:55:140:55:18

The judge very rightly said, at the end of his sentencing,

0:55:190:55:22

when he was giving his sentencing remarks,

0:55:220:55:24

that, of course, the penalty in no way

0:55:240:55:27

reflects the deep suffering

0:55:270:55:28

which has been felt by the Clifford family -

0:55:280:55:30

and that's got to be right because it doesn't, but no penalty could.

0:55:300:55:34

I can't believe

0:55:380:55:39

that it's behind me now.

0:55:390:55:43

It has been so long.

0:55:430:55:45

It's been...

0:55:450:55:46

..16 months, or something like that.

0:55:470:55:50

But the point, for me,

0:55:500:55:52

happened yesterday before the verdict was announced.

0:55:520:55:55

And I realised that...

0:55:550:56:00

I knew the truth.

0:56:000:56:02

It was a momentary lapse of concentration

0:56:020:56:06

on the part of the other driver -

0:56:060:56:08

and before the verdict was read out,

0:56:080:56:11

I asked if the other driver

0:56:110:56:14

would like to meet with me.

0:56:140:56:16

She went and spoke to the defendant, didn't she?

0:56:180:56:21

So I understand, yeah.

0:56:210:56:23

She apparently wanted to make sure

0:56:230:56:25

that he didn't continue to have the guilt that, clearly,

0:56:250:56:29

-he's been feeling since the accident happened.

-Yeah.

0:56:290:56:32

I think it shows great humanity really, doesn't it?

0:56:320:56:36

Absolutely.

0:56:370:56:38

You sort of wonder if you could be quite so magnanimous.

0:56:380:56:42

Well, yes. You'd like to think you would be but...

0:56:420:56:44

probably wouldn't.

0:56:440:56:46

No.

0:56:460:56:48

But...it's difficult, isn't it?

0:56:480:56:50

Because now the family know that...

0:56:500:56:53

Well, a court have found this wasn't an accident so...

0:56:530:56:57

..it didn't have to happen.

0:56:580:57:00

Baying for somebody's blood,

0:57:010:57:04

it doesn't solve anything, does it?

0:57:040:57:07

It really doesn't.

0:57:070:57:09

So...

0:57:100:57:12

I'm grateful to him for seeing me.

0:57:120:57:15

I mean...

0:57:150:57:17

it's helped me.

0:57:170:57:19

He's a good man who's made a mistake...

0:57:190:57:22

..and the consequences have been devastating...

0:57:230:57:26

..but they're devastating to him as well and...

0:57:270:57:31

I hope that, one day, he goes on to have his family.

0:57:310:57:34

He's just got married and I want him to be a good daddy.

0:57:340:57:39

I don't want this to ruin his life.

0:57:390:57:42

Flynn...

0:57:450:57:47

Flynn's presence in this world

0:57:490:57:52

should not ruin anybody's life...

0:57:520:57:55

..and...

0:57:570:57:58

..I'm going to make sure that happens.

0:58:000:58:02

If you're interested in finding out more about the justice system,

0:58:150:58:18

you can join in a simulated court case from The Open University

0:58:180:58:21

and reach your own verdict.

0:58:210:58:24

Go to bbc.co.uk/prosecutors

0:58:240:58:27

and follow the links to The Open University.

0:58:270:58:30

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