Browse content similar to The Proof. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
This programme contains some strong language and scenes which some viewers may find upsetting | 0:00:02 | 0:00:06 | |
In 2014, there were over 500,000 | 0:00:06 | 0:00:08 | |
criminal prosecutions in England and Wales. | 0:00:08 | 0:00:10 | |
Each one was prosecuted not by the police, | 0:00:10 | 0:00:12 | |
but by the lawyers of the Crown Prosecution Service. | 0:00:12 | 0:00:14 | |
My job is about applying the law to other people's lives | 0:00:14 | 0:00:18 | |
and, hopefully, for the public good. | 0:00:18 | 0:00:20 | |
The defendant is found locked inside the house, | 0:00:20 | 0:00:23 | |
with his mother dead downstairs. | 0:00:23 | 0:00:26 | |
In every serious criminal case, the Crown Prosecution Service | 0:00:26 | 0:00:30 | |
must decide who to charge and what to charge them with. | 0:00:30 | 0:00:34 | |
I think that this will come down to, I suppose, is he bad or is he mad? | 0:00:34 | 0:00:38 | |
Sometimes the difficult decisions are unpopular decisions, | 0:00:38 | 0:00:42 | |
but they are the right decisions. | 0:00:42 | 0:00:44 | |
It's their job to build the case and battle to secure a conviction. | 0:00:44 | 0:00:49 | |
All the defence have to do is just pick at things. | 0:00:49 | 0:00:52 | |
They just have to go like that, | 0:00:52 | 0:00:53 | |
and say, "Well, you're not right about that." | 0:00:53 | 0:00:55 | |
Now, for the very first time, the Crown Prosecution Service | 0:00:55 | 0:00:59 | |
has let cameras in to film this unseen world | 0:00:59 | 0:01:02 | |
between the police and the courts. | 0:01:02 | 0:01:04 | |
These are real people, they're real people's lives | 0:01:04 | 0:01:07 | |
and real emotions involved. | 0:01:07 | 0:01:08 | |
We may have our suspicions but if the evidence isn't there, | 0:01:08 | 0:01:11 | |
the evidence isn't there. | 0:01:11 | 0:01:12 | |
For them it's evidence. | 0:01:12 | 0:01:15 | |
It's my life. | 0:01:15 | 0:01:16 | |
At 7.26 on the morning of the 8th of June 2014, | 0:01:24 | 0:01:29 | |
Cheshire police receive a phone call. | 0:01:29 | 0:01:32 | |
The emergency services find 42-year-old mother | 0:01:47 | 0:01:50 | |
Rebecca Bamber in her back garden. | 0:01:50 | 0:01:52 | |
She's been stabbed 13 times and is pronounced dead at 8.07am. | 0:01:53 | 0:01:59 | |
After a police chase, the man seen leaving the scene, | 0:01:59 | 0:02:02 | |
39-year-old carpet fitter David Hoyle, | 0:02:02 | 0:02:05 | |
is arrested and charged with murder. | 0:02:05 | 0:02:07 | |
The prosecution of David Hoyle will be overseen | 0:02:09 | 0:02:12 | |
by the Mersey Cheshire Chief Crown Prosecutor, Claire Lindley. | 0:02:12 | 0:02:15 | |
Morning. | 0:02:16 | 0:02:18 | |
And it's not the only murder she has to deal with today. | 0:02:18 | 0:02:21 | |
In my absence there's been two new murders. | 0:02:21 | 0:02:24 | |
-Right, OK. -They're both of a domestic nature, so... | 0:02:24 | 0:02:28 | |
So we need to check for any previous incident. | 0:02:28 | 0:02:31 | |
Yes, if we've been involved in any way previously. | 0:02:31 | 0:02:34 | |
Claire is in charge of a team of 100 prosecutors. | 0:02:36 | 0:02:38 | |
Morning. | 0:02:38 | 0:02:40 | |
Both of the murders have ended up on the desk of Richard Riley. | 0:02:40 | 0:02:44 | |
-Richard, morning. -Good morning. | 0:02:45 | 0:02:47 | |
I've been away two days and I've come back and there's two murders. | 0:02:47 | 0:02:50 | |
Yes, great. | 0:02:50 | 0:02:51 | |
And you've got them both. Can we talk about Hoyle first, then? | 0:02:51 | 0:02:55 | |
I did wonder slightly about the relationship, | 0:02:55 | 0:02:57 | |
because he doesn't seem to have lived there or... | 0:02:57 | 0:03:00 | |
They had a relationship about 15 years ago. | 0:03:00 | 0:03:02 | |
That sort of fizzled out | 0:03:02 | 0:03:04 | |
and they sort of got together again on Facebook a few weeks ago. | 0:03:04 | 0:03:08 | |
Right. | 0:03:08 | 0:03:09 | |
He came over Saturday night for the first time. | 0:03:09 | 0:03:12 | |
Bit hard to second-guess where this is going at the moment | 0:03:12 | 0:03:14 | |
because he's made no comment. | 0:03:14 | 0:03:16 | |
Yes, but given the fact that when he's arrested | 0:03:16 | 0:03:19 | |
-he's covered in blood... -He's covered in the blood. | 0:03:19 | 0:03:21 | |
..I suspect we may be looking at something like loss of control. | 0:03:21 | 0:03:25 | |
-I don't... -Anything could happen. | 0:03:25 | 0:03:26 | |
Anything could happen on that. | 0:03:26 | 0:03:29 | |
That's trickier than the other murder. | 0:03:29 | 0:03:31 | |
Yes. | 0:03:31 | 0:03:32 | |
That's the case of Fox, son on mum. | 0:03:32 | 0:03:35 | |
He leaves a message saying, | 0:03:35 | 0:03:37 | |
-"Warning, there are dead bodies inside." -Yes. | 0:03:37 | 0:03:39 | |
This is a hammer, hammer attack. | 0:03:39 | 0:03:41 | |
Hammer and knife. | 0:03:41 | 0:03:42 | |
Oh, it's a terrible thing. Honestly, Rachael. | 0:03:42 | 0:03:45 | |
She's an old lady. | 0:03:45 | 0:03:47 | |
-Oh, I thought you were talking about the other one. -Oh, we've moved on now. | 0:03:47 | 0:03:50 | |
I thought you were talking about the DV one. | 0:03:50 | 0:03:52 | |
Well, they're both DV, but this one, | 0:03:52 | 0:03:54 | |
she's, what, 80 or something, Richard? | 0:03:54 | 0:03:56 | |
-She's 83. -83. | 0:03:56 | 0:03:57 | |
And he's 59... No. | 0:03:57 | 0:03:59 | |
And he lives with his mum and he's murdered his mum. | 0:03:59 | 0:04:02 | |
No, he's a year younger than me. | 0:04:02 | 0:04:03 | |
But they found him in the middle of slitting his wrists, apparently, | 0:04:03 | 0:04:06 | |
and the mother dead. | 0:04:06 | 0:04:08 | |
"I'm sorry to put you through this, it can't be pleasant." | 0:04:08 | 0:04:10 | |
That's what he says to the officer when she goes to the house. | 0:04:10 | 0:04:13 | |
"There's nobody else in the house, just me and my mother, who I have murdered." | 0:04:13 | 0:04:16 | |
It's quite a formal statement that, isn't it? "Who I have murdered." | 0:04:16 | 0:04:20 | |
It's not as good as the one we had last year. | 0:04:20 | 0:04:22 | |
And the officer said, "I cautioned and arrested him on suspicion of murder," | 0:04:22 | 0:04:25 | |
to which he said, "There's no suspicion about it." | 0:04:25 | 0:04:27 | |
-CLAIRE LAUGHS -Oh, it's not funny. | 0:04:27 | 0:04:30 | |
Because both of the suspects are being held in custody, | 0:04:30 | 0:04:33 | |
Richard will now have six months to build a case | 0:04:33 | 0:04:35 | |
to prove them each guilty of murder. | 0:04:35 | 0:04:38 | |
Five days after Rebecca Bamber was stabbed to death | 0:04:40 | 0:04:42 | |
and her new boyfriend David Hoyle arrested, Richard is meeting | 0:04:42 | 0:04:46 | |
the investigating police team to find out what they've uncovered. | 0:04:46 | 0:04:51 | |
Among the statements so far taken | 0:04:51 | 0:04:53 | |
is one from Rebecca Bamber's 25-year-old daughter. | 0:04:53 | 0:04:56 | |
Richard Riley from the CPS to see DS Currie and DI Spooner. | 0:05:22 | 0:05:25 | |
When we're looking at murder, we're looking to see | 0:05:25 | 0:05:28 | |
whether that person did the act. | 0:05:28 | 0:05:33 | |
-Mr Currie, how are we? -Good, mate. How are you? | 0:05:33 | 0:05:35 | |
-I'm fine, thanks. -Come on in. | 0:05:35 | 0:05:37 | |
Did that person have any mental health issues such that they | 0:05:37 | 0:05:40 | |
didn't intend to kill the person? | 0:05:40 | 0:05:42 | |
Did they intend to kill the person, or did | 0:05:42 | 0:05:45 | |
they intend to just hit them in the face as some form of punishment, | 0:05:45 | 0:05:48 | |
something like that, but not intend to kill them? | 0:05:48 | 0:05:52 | |
And, of course, in a murder, we've got a scenario usually where | 0:05:52 | 0:05:55 | |
there's two people in a room - one person is dead | 0:05:55 | 0:05:58 | |
at the end of the incident and the other person is obviously | 0:05:58 | 0:06:02 | |
going to try and say something | 0:06:02 | 0:06:06 | |
that might constitute a defence in law. | 0:06:06 | 0:06:09 | |
So what we've got to try and do is work out what happened in that home. | 0:06:09 | 0:06:15 | |
We understand that they have only actually met three times. | 0:06:15 | 0:06:18 | |
-And one time, obviously, he's killed her. -Yeah. | 0:06:18 | 0:06:21 | |
I mean, my understanding is that Rebecca was lonely. | 0:06:21 | 0:06:25 | |
She was looking to rekindle friendships | 0:06:25 | 0:06:28 | |
and she's gone on Facebook and found David Hoyle. | 0:06:28 | 0:06:32 | |
So we've got quite a bit of phone data | 0:06:32 | 0:06:34 | |
that we're working on and, interestingly, some of the | 0:06:34 | 0:06:38 | |
text messages between the two in the build-up. | 0:06:38 | 0:06:41 | |
And she's saying to him, | 0:06:41 | 0:06:42 | |
"I don't want to see you until you get off the drugs." | 0:06:42 | 0:06:45 | |
You know, we can't, you know, | 0:06:45 | 0:06:47 | |
we can't be in a relationship. | 0:06:47 | 0:06:49 | |
And all these sorts of things. | 0:06:49 | 0:06:51 | |
There's obviously a change in heart, | 0:06:51 | 0:06:53 | |
we think following a phone call that he has later on in the day | 0:06:53 | 0:06:58 | |
with Rebecca, cos the next messages are that | 0:06:58 | 0:07:00 | |
he's on his way and, you know, | 0:07:00 | 0:07:03 | |
she's saying, "Well, looking forward to seeing..." That type of thing. | 0:07:03 | 0:07:07 | |
-Yeah. -We know certainly from CCTV etc that he arrives | 0:07:07 | 0:07:12 | |
just before 11.20 at night | 0:07:12 | 0:07:15 | |
and we can certainly say that he stays there, it would appear, all night. | 0:07:15 | 0:07:21 | |
I guess we've got to cover all angles, because | 0:07:21 | 0:07:24 | |
we don't know what this defence statement will say | 0:07:24 | 0:07:28 | |
in terms of an explanation to the injuries that Rebecca sustained. | 0:07:28 | 0:07:33 | |
David Hoyle was caught after police chased the van | 0:07:44 | 0:07:47 | |
he left the scene in and forced it to stop. | 0:07:47 | 0:07:50 | |
In the five days since his arrest, he's refused to make any comment | 0:07:54 | 0:07:58 | |
on what happened in Rebecca Bamber's house. | 0:07:58 | 0:08:01 | |
In some scenarios a defendant might say nothing, | 0:08:01 | 0:08:05 | |
but if he's making no comment, until the case gets into the | 0:08:05 | 0:08:09 | |
court process, we have no idea whether he'll say, "It wasn't me. | 0:08:09 | 0:08:14 | |
"There was somebody else there. | 0:08:14 | 0:08:16 | |
"I was acting in self-defence. | 0:08:16 | 0:08:18 | |
"I've got diminished responsibility, | 0:08:18 | 0:08:21 | |
"because I have a mental health issue." | 0:08:21 | 0:08:23 | |
All manner of different defences that the defendant could say. | 0:08:23 | 0:08:28 | |
So there's no point us just assuming he will plead guilty, | 0:08:28 | 0:08:32 | |
we've got to actually have all our bases covered. | 0:08:32 | 0:08:36 | |
-He has an injury to the back of his head... -Yeah. | 0:08:38 | 0:08:41 | |
-..which I want to try and negate. -I agree with you. | 0:08:41 | 0:08:44 | |
-I mean, what are the defence going to come up with? -Yes. | 0:08:44 | 0:08:47 | |
Are they going to say that this injury... | 0:08:47 | 0:08:49 | |
Yes, exactly, to the back of his head. | 0:08:49 | 0:08:51 | |
..was caused by her? | 0:08:51 | 0:08:53 | |
He was provoked. | 0:08:53 | 0:08:55 | |
Or is it merely her putting up a fight, you know? | 0:08:55 | 0:08:59 | |
His main difficulty will be the number of injuries that have been inflicted. | 0:08:59 | 0:09:03 | |
Oh, absolutely. | 0:09:03 | 0:09:04 | |
That's.... I won't say that's his problem, | 0:09:04 | 0:09:08 | |
but from a defence point of view... | 0:09:08 | 0:09:11 | |
Yes, absolutely. | 0:09:11 | 0:09:13 | |
-It's savage. -It is. | 0:09:13 | 0:09:15 | |
It is, as Steve quite rightly says, it's a savage attack. | 0:09:15 | 0:09:18 | |
I'm at a loss, to be honest, what defence. | 0:09:18 | 0:09:22 | |
Well, we'll...we'll have to wait and see. | 0:09:22 | 0:09:25 | |
Prosecuting violence against women and girls | 0:09:28 | 0:09:31 | |
is now stated as a CPS priority. | 0:09:31 | 0:09:34 | |
In 2014, the police brought them | 0:09:35 | 0:09:37 | |
over 100,000 cases to consider. | 0:09:37 | 0:09:40 | |
The reviewing lawyer must decide whether there's | 0:09:41 | 0:09:44 | |
sufficient evidence to prosecute | 0:09:44 | 0:09:46 | |
and if it is in the public interest. | 0:09:46 | 0:09:49 | |
In a quarter of the cases considered, | 0:09:51 | 0:09:53 | |
they decided a prosecution could not go ahead. | 0:09:53 | 0:09:56 | |
Here we go. | 0:09:59 | 0:10:01 | |
"Following your report, the attacker was charged with assault | 0:10:02 | 0:10:07 | |
"occasioning actual bodily harm. | 0:10:07 | 0:10:11 | |
"The CPS is responsible for deciding | 0:10:11 | 0:10:15 | |
"whether or not the charges should be prosecuted. | 0:10:15 | 0:10:19 | |
"In your case, I've taken the decision to stop the charge. | 0:10:19 | 0:10:25 | |
"This is because there is insufficient evidence to | 0:10:25 | 0:10:28 | |
"provide a realistic prospect of conviction for the charge." | 0:10:28 | 0:10:34 | |
I got so angry inside. | 0:10:34 | 0:10:36 | |
At first I thought, "Leave it." | 0:10:36 | 0:10:38 | |
And then I looked at it again and I thought, | 0:10:38 | 0:10:41 | |
"No. No. This is wrong." | 0:10:41 | 0:10:43 | |
I was nearly dead. | 0:10:43 | 0:10:45 | |
My children said to me, | 0:10:45 | 0:10:46 | |
"Mum you were nearly... We nearly lost our mother." | 0:10:46 | 0:10:49 | |
That is wrong. | 0:10:49 | 0:10:51 | |
Viv has written to the CPS to appeal their decision not to prosecute | 0:10:51 | 0:10:55 | |
under a new initiative, the Victims' Right to Review. | 0:10:55 | 0:10:59 | |
This is a letter that I've just received now. | 0:10:59 | 0:11:02 | |
It's... | 0:11:02 | 0:11:03 | |
..12 pages long, the letter. | 0:11:05 | 0:11:07 | |
And this particular offence is a Section 47 assault against this lady | 0:11:07 | 0:11:13 | |
who, according to the letter here, was knocked unconscious. | 0:11:13 | 0:11:17 | |
And we've told her that there's not sufficient evidence to prosecute. | 0:11:17 | 0:11:21 | |
She starts off by saying... | 0:11:21 | 0:11:23 | |
"Luckily for me I can remember things from that night, | 0:11:25 | 0:11:29 | |
"seconds before I was knocked out. | 0:11:29 | 0:11:31 | |
"I had not informed the police, as I thought I was going to Crown Court | 0:11:31 | 0:11:35 | |
"where I then could have my say. | 0:11:35 | 0:11:38 | |
"I remember my hair being pulled hard and a blow to my face. | 0:11:38 | 0:11:43 | |
"I was then knocked out. Only remembered being in an ambulance | 0:11:45 | 0:11:50 | |
"and a CID lady saying, 'Viv, you have no hair left.'" | 0:11:50 | 0:11:56 | |
-Oh. -She lost a huge piece of her hair. | 0:11:56 | 0:11:59 | |
-During the assault? -Pulled it out, yeah. | 0:11:59 | 0:12:02 | |
-So you can see there, you get a fair idea there. -Oh. | 0:12:02 | 0:12:05 | |
And then you get a fair idea of the bruising, | 0:12:05 | 0:12:07 | |
so it's quite a nasty assault. | 0:12:07 | 0:12:09 | |
If it's domestic, the defendant is her husband or boyfriend or...? | 0:12:09 | 0:12:12 | |
She was having an affair with him. | 0:12:12 | 0:12:14 | |
-Right. And it's over now, is it, their relationship? -Yes. | 0:12:14 | 0:12:18 | |
"At the end of the day, I am mentally scarred for life | 0:12:18 | 0:12:21 | |
"and living a life sentence. | 0:12:21 | 0:12:23 | |
"I am scared to go out on my own. | 0:12:23 | 0:12:25 | |
"He should be looking at an attempted murder charge. | 0:12:25 | 0:12:28 | |
"This is not good enough. | 0:12:28 | 0:12:30 | |
"I don't care what it takes, I want this turned over." | 0:12:30 | 0:12:34 | |
I wonder whether Jo Lazzari might be best placed to look at it... | 0:12:34 | 0:12:38 | |
Yes, she might. | 0:12:38 | 0:12:39 | |
..as the domestic violence specialist. | 0:12:39 | 0:12:42 | |
If a victim is really unhappy, then they have a right to review. | 0:12:42 | 0:12:48 | |
Quite tricky because a victim might think there's evidence that there isn't, | 0:12:48 | 0:12:52 | |
or perhaps, understandably, won't understand the law. | 0:12:52 | 0:12:56 | |
But the bottom line is the evidence is the evidence | 0:12:56 | 0:12:58 | |
and if there isn't enough evidence, | 0:12:58 | 0:13:00 | |
then irrespective of the victim's views, | 0:13:00 | 0:13:02 | |
which I've got full sympathy with, | 0:13:02 | 0:13:04 | |
if there isn't the evidence there, then we can't prosecute. | 0:13:04 | 0:13:07 | |
Do they think I'm lying? | 0:13:07 | 0:13:09 | |
It makes it sound as though I've made it up, I'm lying. | 0:13:09 | 0:13:12 | |
Well, I'm not going to sit there and pull me own hair out | 0:13:12 | 0:13:15 | |
and smash myself in the face. | 0:13:15 | 0:13:17 | |
The CPS need to get their act together. | 0:13:17 | 0:13:19 | |
Whoever deals... | 0:13:19 | 0:13:21 | |
is dealing with this case in the first place definitely got it wrong. | 0:13:21 | 0:13:25 | |
We've dropped the case | 0:13:25 | 0:13:27 | |
because although we can prove the defendant was at the scene, | 0:13:27 | 0:13:30 | |
-we don't know that it was him that assaulted her. -OK. | 0:13:30 | 0:13:33 | |
But Claire's quite concerned because the injuries are quite bad. | 0:13:33 | 0:13:36 | |
But you can see, she's lost quite a...quite a big chunk of her hair. | 0:13:36 | 0:13:41 | |
According to CMS, there was a taxi driver and a friend | 0:13:41 | 0:13:44 | |
who won't give statements. | 0:13:44 | 0:13:47 | |
So obviously that's caused an issue somewhere along the way. | 0:13:47 | 0:13:50 | |
But we have her presumably? | 0:13:50 | 0:13:52 | |
Well, at first she refused to accept it was him that did it, | 0:13:52 | 0:13:56 | |
because she says, "He loves me too much to have hurt me in that way | 0:13:56 | 0:14:00 | |
"and it can't possibly have been him." | 0:14:00 | 0:14:02 | |
OK. It looks like it needs a careful looking at really then, | 0:14:02 | 0:14:06 | |
in terms of what we do have evidentially. | 0:14:06 | 0:14:10 | |
Now, what's happened to my tea? | 0:14:10 | 0:14:12 | |
-I do need my tea before we start. -Yeah. | 0:14:12 | 0:14:15 | |
David Hoyle is still refusing to give any comment | 0:14:15 | 0:14:18 | |
about the events that led up to Rebecca Bamber being killed. | 0:14:18 | 0:14:22 | |
The police team are continuing to gather evidence. | 0:14:22 | 0:14:25 | |
Still plodding on with the telecoms. | 0:14:25 | 0:14:27 | |
The interesting thing is the web history indicates that | 0:14:27 | 0:14:30 | |
he's been desperately trying to find out where Becky lives. | 0:14:30 | 0:14:36 | |
There's a number of hits for sites like White Pages, 192, | 0:14:36 | 0:14:42 | |
electoral roll, all with searches for Becky Bamber. | 0:14:42 | 0:14:46 | |
Cos the interesting thing could be, could it not, | 0:14:46 | 0:14:50 | |
on that Saturday night, when all the time she is saying, you know, | 0:14:50 | 0:14:52 | |
"You're not coming to the house. I don't want to see you until you're off the drugs." | 0:14:52 | 0:14:56 | |
And there seems to be a complete U-turn | 0:14:56 | 0:14:58 | |
and he's coming to the house. | 0:14:58 | 0:14:59 | |
Perhaps we'll never know, but is it a question of he's said to her, | 0:14:59 | 0:15:02 | |
"Look, I know where you live. | 0:15:02 | 0:15:04 | |
"I don't care what you say, I'm coming, I'm coming"? | 0:15:04 | 0:15:06 | |
As Richard tries to make sure he gets enough evidence to prove | 0:15:08 | 0:15:11 | |
David Hoyle guilty of murder, | 0:15:11 | 0:15:13 | |
he's also having to prepare for the second murder trial. | 0:15:13 | 0:15:16 | |
It's now just over a week since the body of 83-year-old widow | 0:15:20 | 0:15:24 | |
Mrs Yvonne Fox was found in the house in Alsager, Cheshire, | 0:15:24 | 0:15:28 | |
she'd shared for the past 30 years with her only son Paul, | 0:15:28 | 0:15:33 | |
and where Paul left a note saying he'd killed his mother. | 0:15:33 | 0:15:37 | |
Today, Richard has his first meeting with the lead investigator. | 0:15:37 | 0:15:41 | |
We need to make sure that we have enough evidence irrespective | 0:15:41 | 0:15:47 | |
of what the defendant may or may not have said at the time, | 0:15:47 | 0:15:50 | |
because we can't necessarily believe what the defendant is saying. | 0:15:50 | 0:15:56 | |
So we can't just rely on a note left by the defendant and send him | 0:15:56 | 0:16:00 | |
straight to prison without passing go. | 0:16:00 | 0:16:02 | |
There's a whole court process that we have to go through | 0:16:02 | 0:16:06 | |
and a huge investigation. | 0:16:06 | 0:16:08 | |
I'll show you Paul Fox first, so you get a flavour for him. | 0:16:08 | 0:16:11 | |
Right, so that's him. The scene is more important, I would suggest. | 0:16:13 | 0:16:17 | |
Let's have a look. | 0:16:17 | 0:16:18 | |
There's three bedrooms upstairs. | 0:16:18 | 0:16:20 | |
There's his mum's room at the back, which is quite clean and tidy, | 0:16:20 | 0:16:23 | |
as expected of a proud 83-year-old female, who's still got her marbles. | 0:16:23 | 0:16:27 | |
-This is his mum's room. This is her bed. -Yeah. | 0:16:27 | 0:16:31 | |
Blood there. | 0:16:31 | 0:16:32 | |
There's the front bedroom, which is quite clean as well. | 0:16:32 | 0:16:35 | |
-This is where he was found, at the top. -Yeah. -Sat on his bed. | 0:16:35 | 0:16:38 | |
Then, at the back, there's a box room. That's where he lives. | 0:16:38 | 0:16:41 | |
And you can hardly open the door for all the cider cans, bottles, beer. | 0:16:41 | 0:16:47 | |
That's his cider from his room, | 0:16:47 | 0:16:49 | |
cans from his room, | 0:16:49 | 0:16:51 | |
wine and spirits. | 0:16:51 | 0:16:53 | |
It's horrendous in there. | 0:16:53 | 0:16:54 | |
You know, for example, we've got 813 drinking vessels from this address | 0:16:54 | 0:16:57 | |
and we're talking three-litre cider Zeppelin bottles. | 0:16:57 | 0:17:01 | |
240 of them had urine in, so that's strange sort of behaviour. | 0:17:01 | 0:17:05 | |
What we're starting to see, Richard, | 0:17:05 | 0:17:06 | |
-is an emerging picture of - he's a mummy's boy. -Yeah. | 0:17:06 | 0:17:11 | |
He's been brought up with a mum who loves him, | 0:17:11 | 0:17:13 | |
but he's not lived up to her expectations. | 0:17:13 | 0:17:16 | |
Now this incident has happened. | 0:17:16 | 0:17:18 | |
He's been working the week before the murder, newish job, | 0:17:18 | 0:17:21 | |
he's doing well there, staff say he's good, | 0:17:21 | 0:17:23 | |
he was in line for promotion. | 0:17:23 | 0:17:25 | |
On the Saturday, he takes her shopping, as normal. | 0:17:25 | 0:17:28 | |
-So we're going to get evidence from CCTV of his interaction with his mum. -Yeah. | 0:17:28 | 0:17:32 | |
On the Saturday night, she thinks he's gone out for chips, | 0:17:32 | 0:17:35 | |
but he's in the pub at the Alsager Arms. | 0:17:35 | 0:17:37 | |
He has a couple of pints or so there and then bumps his car. | 0:17:37 | 0:17:40 | |
And obviously the bobbies, they go and get him locked up | 0:17:40 | 0:17:43 | |
-for the drink drive Saturday night. -Yeah. | 0:17:43 | 0:17:45 | |
His mum's upset on the doorstep about, you know, | 0:17:45 | 0:17:47 | |
he's getting locked up and he's going to lose his job. | 0:17:47 | 0:17:50 | |
He goes into custody, presents as a normal drink driver. | 0:17:52 | 0:17:56 | |
-Mr Fox. How are you? -OK. | 0:17:56 | 0:17:58 | |
But he says on interview that he hatched his plan in custody, | 0:17:58 | 0:18:01 | |
whilst there stewing, to murder his mum. | 0:18:01 | 0:18:05 | |
His world's going to fall apart with this ban. | 0:18:05 | 0:18:07 | |
He's going to lose his job and he doesn't want to live, | 0:18:07 | 0:18:09 | |
so he's going to take her with him, | 0:18:09 | 0:18:11 | |
because, potentially, she wouldn't live or be able to live without him. | 0:18:11 | 0:18:15 | |
That's at the back. Mum was found in here. | 0:18:15 | 0:18:18 | |
Right, she's been moved, but I'll show you where she was before. | 0:18:18 | 0:18:20 | |
She was found here. | 0:18:20 | 0:18:22 | |
Tea, beans, head lying there. | 0:18:22 | 0:18:25 | |
The knife was here, the hammer's there. | 0:18:25 | 0:18:27 | |
I think we're all fairly on the same page that this will come down to | 0:18:27 | 0:18:30 | |
is he, I suppose, is he bad or is he mad? | 0:18:30 | 0:18:33 | |
-Good luck to you. -OK, thank you. | 0:18:33 | 0:18:36 | |
-Yes, is it possible to ring a taxi from here? -Yes. | 0:18:36 | 0:18:40 | |
I mean, he's obviously going to go down the psychiatric route, | 0:18:40 | 0:18:43 | |
I would've thought, | 0:18:43 | 0:18:44 | |
and we'll just have to wait and see what comes up. | 0:18:44 | 0:18:46 | |
I think the key one is to show that he knew intently | 0:18:46 | 0:18:49 | |
-what he was going to do and he wasn't mad when he did it. -Yeah. | 0:18:49 | 0:18:53 | |
The decision not to charge Viv's attacker | 0:18:56 | 0:18:58 | |
means it's now over a year since she was assaulted. | 0:18:58 | 0:19:02 | |
So when I went to see a hair technologist, | 0:19:02 | 0:19:05 | |
they said because of the trauma of it being pulled, | 0:19:05 | 0:19:08 | |
you've got trauma under the scalp | 0:19:08 | 0:19:10 | |
that will take it a long time to grow back, | 0:19:10 | 0:19:12 | |
plus, a lot of stress as well can stop your hair from growing. | 0:19:12 | 0:19:16 | |
Following Viv's request for a Victim's Right to Review, | 0:19:16 | 0:19:19 | |
Jo, a domestic abuse specialist, is looking at the case to decide | 0:19:19 | 0:19:23 | |
if her attacker should now be prosecuted. | 0:19:23 | 0:19:26 | |
So what I'm looking at first is the | 0:19:26 | 0:19:28 | |
level of injury this lady has sustained. | 0:19:28 | 0:19:30 | |
And you can see on this photograph, | 0:19:30 | 0:19:32 | |
pieces of her hair have been ripped from her head. | 0:19:32 | 0:19:36 | |
She says, "Since being released from hospital, I've been informed | 0:19:36 | 0:19:39 | |
"by the doctor that my injuries consisted of a fractured cheekbone." | 0:19:39 | 0:19:44 | |
She's got problems with her eye socket, | 0:19:44 | 0:19:46 | |
she's got blurred vision, she's got a fracture to her tooth. | 0:19:46 | 0:19:50 | |
You don't really need a medical degree to say that | 0:19:50 | 0:19:52 | |
that's something that has been sustained in an assault. | 0:19:52 | 0:19:55 | |
I just think, no matter what happens, Jeanette, | 0:19:55 | 0:19:57 | |
if a woman loses her hair, there's nothing worse. | 0:19:57 | 0:20:00 | |
-Nothing. -I don't care... -That's right. | 0:20:00 | 0:20:01 | |
..if you break every bone in your body, | 0:20:01 | 0:20:03 | |
-if you lose your hair, it's the most horrible thing going. -Definitely. | 0:20:03 | 0:20:08 | |
The reason this case is a bit unusual is that the victim | 0:20:08 | 0:20:12 | |
doesn't actually recall what happened to her. | 0:20:12 | 0:20:15 | |
She can recall the immediate aftermath, | 0:20:15 | 0:20:17 | |
but she can't remember actually being assaulted. | 0:20:17 | 0:20:21 | |
When I was, like, in hospital, the police, | 0:20:21 | 0:20:24 | |
he brought me this hair in a bag, | 0:20:24 | 0:20:27 | |
cos I couldn't remember anything. | 0:20:27 | 0:20:29 | |
And he just said, "Does that bring back any memories?" | 0:20:29 | 0:20:31 | |
And I just... I was nearly sick. | 0:20:31 | 0:20:33 | |
He must have really took a yank at that? | 0:20:33 | 0:20:36 | |
I was on the driver's side | 0:20:36 | 0:20:37 | |
and I was dragged from the passenger side | 0:20:37 | 0:20:40 | |
-with my seatbelt on, by my hair. -Shocking. | 0:20:40 | 0:20:42 | |
I'm just going to have a look at what he said to the police. | 0:20:42 | 0:20:46 | |
And what he's actually said...is nothing at all. | 0:20:46 | 0:20:51 | |
Why would you make no comment in these circumstances? | 0:20:51 | 0:20:54 | |
If he's there, he's seen somebody else do this, | 0:20:54 | 0:20:56 | |
why not give that name? | 0:20:56 | 0:20:57 | |
Why not give some sort of account? | 0:20:57 | 0:20:59 | |
And this person's still walking free? | 0:20:59 | 0:21:02 | |
Oh, the attacker is still walking free, yeah. | 0:21:02 | 0:21:04 | |
My daughter went out the other night and he was chatting a girl up. | 0:21:04 | 0:21:10 | |
And my daughter felt like saying, | 0:21:10 | 0:21:12 | |
"Please, don't go there in case it happens." | 0:21:12 | 0:21:15 | |
But she kept out of it. Anyway, the girl told him where to go. | 0:21:15 | 0:21:18 | |
This has happened outside in the street, | 0:21:18 | 0:21:21 | |
so there are people that have seen and heard bits and pieces. | 0:21:21 | 0:21:24 | |
PC Riley's come to the scene and she's spoken to the taxi driver, | 0:21:24 | 0:21:28 | |
and he said the person in his taxi has got out, | 0:21:28 | 0:21:32 | |
approached a female, which is our victim, | 0:21:32 | 0:21:35 | |
he's dragged her out of the car and repeatedly punched her to the head, | 0:21:35 | 0:21:39 | |
but he won't give the police a statement. | 0:21:39 | 0:21:42 | |
I'm not content that necessarily we're going to leave it at that. | 0:21:42 | 0:21:45 | |
We could look to potentially having those witnesses | 0:21:45 | 0:21:47 | |
compelled into court and asked to tell us what's happened. | 0:21:47 | 0:21:51 | |
And if they don't do that, the judge can have them arrested | 0:21:51 | 0:21:54 | |
and he can have them locked up for a month in contempt of court. | 0:21:54 | 0:21:59 | |
Me and this machine, we don't get on. | 0:22:02 | 0:22:04 | |
The decision not to charge a case can only be overturned with | 0:22:04 | 0:22:07 | |
the approval of the Chief Crown Prosecutor. | 0:22:07 | 0:22:10 | |
I've been right through the letter and through the case itself. | 0:22:10 | 0:22:13 | |
There's actually two live witnesses. | 0:22:13 | 0:22:15 | |
This is the thing that I don't understand why it's just been let go. | 0:22:15 | 0:22:19 | |
There's a taxi driver and another person at the scene | 0:22:19 | 0:22:22 | |
who directly witnessed what he's done. | 0:22:22 | 0:22:25 | |
One of them is her friend and he's just said he won't co-operate. | 0:22:25 | 0:22:28 | |
I'm thinking either we're going out | 0:22:28 | 0:22:30 | |
and trying a bit harder to get some actual statements off them, | 0:22:30 | 0:22:34 | |
or compelling them on what they've already said. | 0:22:34 | 0:22:37 | |
I have to decide whether the decision was wrong | 0:22:37 | 0:22:40 | |
or whether there's new evidence | 0:22:40 | 0:22:42 | |
and, actually, what we'd be better doing is getting | 0:22:42 | 0:22:45 | |
all the evidence that we're going to get, | 0:22:45 | 0:22:48 | |
trying to get the statements from those witnesses, for example. | 0:22:48 | 0:22:51 | |
Let's do that first. | 0:22:51 | 0:22:52 | |
But it sounds like we have to be transparent and say it was wrong, | 0:22:52 | 0:22:55 | |
-you know, and that's fine... -Yeah. | 0:22:55 | 0:22:57 | |
..if that's what it is. | 0:22:57 | 0:22:59 | |
-Well, we make mistakes, don't we, sometimes? -Yeah, exactly. | 0:22:59 | 0:23:01 | |
You know, it isn't an obvious case. | 0:23:01 | 0:23:03 | |
There is nobody at the moment with a witness statement saying, "That man did it." | 0:23:03 | 0:23:07 | |
Following the killing of Rebecca Bamber, David Hoyle | 0:23:10 | 0:23:12 | |
was seen leaving the scene. | 0:23:12 | 0:23:14 | |
He has now sacked his original legal team | 0:23:16 | 0:23:19 | |
and his new legal team have broken the silence. | 0:23:19 | 0:23:21 | |
In a case such as murder, the defendant must inform | 0:23:24 | 0:23:28 | |
the court the nature of his defence. | 0:23:28 | 0:23:30 | |
We sit and we wait. | 0:23:30 | 0:23:32 | |
We have our case prepared, | 0:23:32 | 0:23:34 | |
we think we've covered all our bases | 0:23:34 | 0:23:36 | |
and then we wait for this defence to come in. | 0:23:36 | 0:23:39 | |
Then we get that | 0:23:42 | 0:23:43 | |
and we go scurrying back to our file and make sure | 0:23:43 | 0:23:47 | |
that everything the defendant is now saying happened, we can disprove. | 0:23:47 | 0:23:53 | |
Is this it? | 0:23:53 | 0:23:54 | |
This is it. | 0:23:54 | 0:23:55 | |
You'll find it interesting, to say the least. | 0:23:55 | 0:24:00 | |
"The defendant denies that any of his actions were undertaken with | 0:24:00 | 0:24:04 | |
"the intent to cause death or grievous bodily harm." | 0:24:04 | 0:24:08 | |
That's his defence. | 0:24:08 | 0:24:09 | |
Well, that's wild really, when you look at the facts of the case. | 0:24:09 | 0:24:12 | |
-Read on. -Anyway. | 0:24:12 | 0:24:14 | |
"He was a habitual drug user. | 0:24:14 | 0:24:17 | |
"He'd purchased crack cocaine and heroin, | 0:24:17 | 0:24:20 | |
"and had used some of the crack and all of the heroin." | 0:24:20 | 0:24:23 | |
Goodness me. | 0:24:23 | 0:24:25 | |
Does that... Did we have access to the sort of his pathology, if you like? | 0:24:25 | 0:24:30 | |
No. He didn't have any veins to take any blood from. | 0:24:30 | 0:24:32 | |
So much drug use that all his veins have collapsed, | 0:24:32 | 0:24:36 | |
so they couldn't take a blood sample. | 0:24:36 | 0:24:38 | |
-But as I say... -Sorry, read on. | 0:24:38 | 0:24:41 | |
"After sleeping with her in her bed, | 0:24:41 | 0:24:43 | |
"the defendant was confronted by a sudden change of mood on her part. | 0:24:43 | 0:24:47 | |
"She picked up a wine bottle, | 0:24:47 | 0:24:49 | |
"striking herself over the head with it." | 0:24:49 | 0:24:52 | |
So he's sort of saying some of those injuries are caused, self-inflicted. | 0:24:52 | 0:24:56 | |
Eight fractures to the skull. | 0:24:56 | 0:24:58 | |
My God. Again... | 0:24:58 | 0:24:59 | |
You couldn't possibly fracture your own skull, could you? | 0:24:59 | 0:25:02 | |
The pathologist is being asked to comment on that... | 0:25:02 | 0:25:05 | |
-On that possibility. -..on that possibility. | 0:25:05 | 0:25:09 | |
The prosecution have been working on ways of making | 0:25:11 | 0:25:13 | |
the evidence they do have easily understandable in a trial. | 0:25:13 | 0:25:17 | |
The police have produced these, | 0:25:17 | 0:25:19 | |
which I think are absolutely fantastic, | 0:25:19 | 0:25:20 | |
which are going to be for the jury and the judge. | 0:25:20 | 0:25:23 | |
This is what they found - spatter on the bed. | 0:25:23 | 0:25:25 | |
So the bottle attack really took place upstairs. | 0:25:25 | 0:25:28 | |
But I guess he is saying that? | 0:25:28 | 0:25:31 | |
-I'm not buying into the defence, don't get me wrong... -No, no. | 0:25:31 | 0:25:34 | |
..but he does say that. | 0:25:34 | 0:25:35 | |
I'll show you downstairs. | 0:25:35 | 0:25:37 | |
There's blood by the door and this is all the blood that leads out. | 0:25:37 | 0:25:41 | |
That's the knife drawer. | 0:25:41 | 0:25:43 | |
Ah-ha. Yeah, go on. | 0:25:43 | 0:25:45 | |
Her footprints are in blue and his footprints are the black trainers. | 0:25:45 | 0:25:51 | |
What we say is she's tried to go to the door, he's come. | 0:25:51 | 0:25:55 | |
She's then gone to the window, | 0:25:55 | 0:25:56 | |
where she's been, he's been seen by the witness. He's come... | 0:25:56 | 0:25:59 | |
He's come to there. | 0:25:59 | 0:26:00 | |
We've then gone back there. | 0:26:00 | 0:26:02 | |
Look whose footprints go to the cutlery drawer. | 0:26:02 | 0:26:04 | |
-Mm. -Not hers. | 0:26:04 | 0:26:06 | |
No. I mean, that's a brilliant description there, isn't it? | 0:26:06 | 0:26:10 | |
To help the presentation of the case, | 0:26:12 | 0:26:14 | |
the police have combined the CCTV footage from the shop | 0:26:14 | 0:26:17 | |
opposite Rebecca's house with the 999 call they received. | 0:26:17 | 0:26:22 | |
That's the witness trying to get a response from the door. | 0:26:22 | 0:26:26 | |
Kind of turning up as a concerned neighbour. | 0:26:26 | 0:26:30 | |
He then comes to the window, as we say he does. | 0:26:30 | 0:26:34 | |
He sees that. | 0:26:34 | 0:26:35 | |
-And he's run off to ring 999. -He's rung and phoned up. | 0:26:36 | 0:26:40 | |
This is him. | 0:27:15 | 0:27:17 | |
Look, he's just put something in. That's the defendant. | 0:27:17 | 0:27:20 | |
-Oh, he thinks the daughter's there. -Yes. -Oh, God. | 0:28:08 | 0:28:11 | |
Poor man. | 0:28:13 | 0:28:15 | |
-That's it. -Oh, God. | 0:28:18 | 0:28:21 | |
Not good. | 0:28:25 | 0:28:27 | |
It got to me as well. | 0:28:29 | 0:28:30 | |
It's...dreadful. | 0:28:30 | 0:28:32 | |
And we didn't even know her. | 0:28:32 | 0:28:34 | |
-Yeah, exactly. -You know? | 0:28:34 | 0:28:37 | |
That just... Quite often you're doing things on paper and doing | 0:28:37 | 0:28:40 | |
a legal job, and then you actually listen to something like that. | 0:28:40 | 0:28:43 | |
-That's it, isn't it? -It just really hits home. | 0:28:43 | 0:28:45 | |
Although the CPS lawyers prepare the file of evidence, | 0:28:50 | 0:28:54 | |
the prosecution of a murder case in court is generally | 0:28:54 | 0:28:57 | |
carried out by the most senior of barristers - a Queen's Counsel. | 0:28:57 | 0:29:02 | |
His responsibility is to stand up in court and present the case, | 0:29:02 | 0:29:07 | |
and... | 0:29:07 | 0:29:09 | |
I do all the running around, in effect. | 0:29:09 | 0:29:13 | |
Not that I mind that. | 0:29:13 | 0:29:15 | |
That's my job. | 0:29:15 | 0:29:18 | |
Richard's just given the Fox file to the QC who's been hired | 0:29:18 | 0:29:21 | |
to prove in court that Paul Fox murdered his mother. | 0:29:21 | 0:29:25 | |
Now, I know a little about the case | 0:29:25 | 0:29:27 | |
from what the Crown Prosecution Service lawyers have told me. | 0:29:27 | 0:29:31 | |
I know that it involves the alleged murder of an elderly lady | 0:29:31 | 0:29:35 | |
by her middle-aged son. | 0:29:35 | 0:29:38 | |
A very brutal murder, allegedly involving a lump hammer and a knife. | 0:29:38 | 0:29:43 | |
So what I'll do now is have a look at the main issues, | 0:29:46 | 0:29:50 | |
consider what further evidence we might need, perhaps pre-empt | 0:29:50 | 0:29:54 | |
what points of law might arise, things the defence might say. | 0:29:54 | 0:29:58 | |
The issue of his state of mental health | 0:29:58 | 0:30:00 | |
and whether or not his state of mental health has any effect | 0:30:00 | 0:30:03 | |
upon his responsibility for what he has done may well be a real issue. | 0:30:03 | 0:30:09 | |
Whether it gives him a partial defence | 0:30:09 | 0:30:10 | |
like diminished responsibility, which reduces | 0:30:10 | 0:30:13 | |
murder to manslaughter, if the defence establish that. | 0:30:13 | 0:30:16 | |
The type of issues also arising in this are linked to | 0:30:18 | 0:30:21 | |
the relationship between Paul Fox and his mother. | 0:30:21 | 0:30:25 | |
I have to bear that in mind, both in terms of presenting, | 0:30:25 | 0:30:28 | |
dealing with the case for the prosecution, | 0:30:28 | 0:30:30 | |
and taking into account the defendant's position too. | 0:30:30 | 0:30:33 | |
My job is to prosecute the case, | 0:30:33 | 0:30:34 | |
but it's to do it fairly and to bear in mind the whole picture. | 0:30:34 | 0:30:38 | |
But, yeah, a very serious case, and undoubtedly a very sad case. | 0:30:38 | 0:30:42 | |
In Alsager, Mrs Fox was a regular at the weekly church coffee morning. | 0:30:45 | 0:30:50 | |
DI Simon Blackwell has gone to meet her friends. | 0:30:50 | 0:30:54 | |
There will be in court clear discussion on what happened. | 0:30:54 | 0:30:57 | |
I can't go into full details, but it wasn't a pleasant thing for Yvonne. | 0:30:57 | 0:31:02 | |
It was an attack of some force and gravity, | 0:31:02 | 0:31:04 | |
so I just wanted to prepare you. | 0:31:04 | 0:31:06 | |
I wouldn't want you to be having your cornflakes, | 0:31:06 | 0:31:08 | |
pick up the paper and read about what happened to Yvonne. | 0:31:08 | 0:31:11 | |
A lot of you round this table are as good as family to her. | 0:31:11 | 0:31:14 | |
Generally, how are people in the village? How's it going? | 0:31:14 | 0:31:16 | |
Well, we've discussed it at almost every meeting, really, you know. | 0:31:16 | 0:31:21 | |
We just wondered what has happened. | 0:31:21 | 0:31:22 | |
One minute we think, you know, it's sad for Paul, the next minute, | 0:31:22 | 0:31:27 | |
we think it's sad for Yvonne. | 0:31:27 | 0:31:28 | |
But, you know, with a son and a mother involved, | 0:31:28 | 0:31:32 | |
it's even worse somehow, isn't it? | 0:31:32 | 0:31:34 | |
We were very shocked. | 0:31:34 | 0:31:37 | |
But Paul, yes, he was a loner, | 0:31:37 | 0:31:40 | |
but, you know, Yvonne thought the world of him. | 0:31:40 | 0:31:44 | |
And, to be quite honest, I don't think it was done on purpose. | 0:31:44 | 0:31:50 | |
I think it's, you know, it's been... | 0:31:50 | 0:31:54 | |
spur of the moment, | 0:31:54 | 0:31:56 | |
and he's not been in the right frame of mind. | 0:31:56 | 0:31:59 | |
This is how we've discussed it. | 0:31:59 | 0:32:00 | |
It's gone from one to blame to the other to blame. | 0:32:00 | 0:32:03 | |
The more you discuss it, the more complicated it gets, basically, doesn't it? | 0:32:03 | 0:32:08 | |
I think that he is going to try and say that it is his alcohol misuse | 0:32:08 | 0:32:13 | |
that has led him to have some form of mental illness that | 0:32:13 | 0:32:18 | |
so affected his judgment that he, that he killed his mother. | 0:32:18 | 0:32:21 | |
The fact, "I was drinking at the time," isn't a defence. | 0:32:21 | 0:32:26 | |
You can't just drink alcohol and murder somebody. | 0:32:26 | 0:32:30 | |
That would be silly. | 0:32:30 | 0:32:31 | |
Of course that's not a defence. | 0:32:31 | 0:32:34 | |
But if somebody is to such an extent high on drugs and alcohol | 0:32:34 | 0:32:39 | |
that they couldn't possibly have the capacity to intend | 0:32:39 | 0:32:43 | |
to do something, then that possibly could be a defence. | 0:32:43 | 0:32:47 | |
-Can you see us? -Yeah, perfectly, thank you. | 0:32:47 | 0:32:50 | |
-Unfortunately. -HE LAUGHS | 0:32:50 | 0:32:53 | |
The prosecution team is still working on gathering enough evidence | 0:32:53 | 0:32:57 | |
to counter any defence Paul Fox may put forward. | 0:32:57 | 0:33:00 | |
There may be a defence case around personality disorder | 0:33:00 | 0:33:04 | |
of some level for Mr Fox, | 0:33:04 | 0:33:06 | |
and also the alcohol dependency syndrome elements. | 0:33:06 | 0:33:10 | |
I clearly outlined the fact that he was rational over | 0:33:10 | 0:33:13 | |
the weekend of his custody arrest for drink-drive. | 0:33:13 | 0:33:16 | |
He was sober when he left custody. | 0:33:16 | 0:33:18 | |
He's then gone out and took that pre-meditated decision to buy | 0:33:18 | 0:33:21 | |
his alcohol, a shift in change of drinking by buying the hard spirits, | 0:33:21 | 0:33:25 | |
and then the obviously pre-meditated two attacks on his mother. | 0:33:25 | 0:33:29 | |
The other thing I picked up on the report, | 0:33:29 | 0:33:31 | |
which is of interest for us generally, | 0:33:31 | 0:33:33 | |
the bag found on the seat of his car, | 0:33:33 | 0:33:35 | |
which had a blood smear on it, is her blood. | 0:33:35 | 0:33:38 | |
It's quite important that, because that night he goes out to Bargain Booze | 0:33:38 | 0:33:42 | |
and he hasn't been in the car when he's gone the Sunday before. | 0:33:42 | 0:33:45 | |
So the Monday night, he's already clearly done some sort of assault | 0:33:45 | 0:33:48 | |
on his mum, cos there's blood on the bag that he gets from the shop. | 0:33:48 | 0:33:52 | |
So he's part way through his assault process and he's still decided | 0:33:52 | 0:33:55 | |
to go out and eat, get munchies and get his ale and his vodka. | 0:33:55 | 0:33:59 | |
So again, it paints that picture for the jury of he was | 0:33:59 | 0:34:02 | |
compos mentis enough to go out and do that. | 0:34:02 | 0:34:04 | |
Following Viv's request for the CPS to review her case, | 0:34:06 | 0:34:10 | |
the police have re-interviewed the two witnesses to her assault. | 0:34:10 | 0:34:13 | |
Both have now provided statements. | 0:34:13 | 0:34:16 | |
In a way, it doesn't matter now | 0:34:17 | 0:34:19 | |
whether the earlier decision was wrong or not. | 0:34:19 | 0:34:22 | |
-We've actually got new evidence. -Yes. | 0:34:22 | 0:34:24 | |
So that's that. That's a done deal as far as I'm concerned. | 0:34:24 | 0:34:27 | |
The only thing that worries me about the earlier decision | 0:34:27 | 0:34:30 | |
in some respects is why didn't we ask | 0:34:30 | 0:34:33 | |
and push the police at that point to get these two statements? | 0:34:33 | 0:34:37 | |
Because you pushed, so the police did. | 0:34:37 | 0:34:39 | |
Perhaps we could have done that before we discontinued it, | 0:34:39 | 0:34:42 | |
I think is the lesson really. | 0:34:42 | 0:34:44 | |
Yeah, I mean, that's what we say we will do in domestic violence cases, isn't it? | 0:34:44 | 0:34:48 | |
Yes, to go that extra mile. | 0:34:48 | 0:34:51 | |
The prosecution can't prove the extent of Viv's injuries, | 0:34:51 | 0:34:54 | |
but the hair loss and photos are enough to charge Ian Hickman | 0:34:54 | 0:34:58 | |
with assault occasioning actual bodily harm. | 0:34:58 | 0:35:02 | |
He will be allowed to remain on bail until the trial takes place. | 0:35:02 | 0:35:05 | |
In the case involving the Victims' Right to Review, for example, | 0:35:05 | 0:35:09 | |
I've never met that victim and yet we've been integral | 0:35:09 | 0:35:14 | |
in making sure that that case is properly prosecuted. | 0:35:14 | 0:35:18 | |
And so, hopefully, she will feel as if we've cared about her | 0:35:18 | 0:35:24 | |
when we've made that decision, and yet we've never even met her. | 0:35:24 | 0:35:28 | |
So we're kind of the silent partners | 0:35:28 | 0:35:31 | |
in the criminal justice system, to an extent, | 0:35:31 | 0:35:33 | |
cos we are making decisions about people | 0:35:33 | 0:35:35 | |
and for people without ever even meeting them. | 0:35:35 | 0:35:39 | |
Almost six months after Rebecca Bamber was attacked and killed, | 0:35:43 | 0:35:48 | |
David Hoyle is due to go on trial for her murder. | 0:35:48 | 0:35:51 | |
This prosecution team has also now been completed with | 0:35:51 | 0:35:54 | |
the addition of the QC who will present the case. | 0:35:54 | 0:35:59 | |
We have to establish from the evidence that which he did, | 0:35:59 | 0:36:04 | |
he did with the intention of either killing | 0:36:04 | 0:36:07 | |
or inflicting really serious harm. | 0:36:07 | 0:36:09 | |
An important part of any case is the pathological evidence. | 0:36:09 | 0:36:14 | |
It deals with the force that's very often used when somebody uses | 0:36:14 | 0:36:18 | |
a knife, dependent on the extent of those injuries, which can help | 0:36:18 | 0:36:22 | |
in making an assessment as to that question of intention. | 0:36:22 | 0:36:27 | |
What I'm not going to do is show the jury photographs of injuries. | 0:36:27 | 0:36:32 | |
So what we'll do is I will ask the pathologist to prepare a sketch. | 0:36:32 | 0:36:36 | |
It avoids the jury having to see photographs, | 0:36:36 | 0:36:39 | |
which are particularly unpleasant, | 0:36:39 | 0:36:41 | |
but does allow them to see the position | 0:36:41 | 0:36:44 | |
and extent of those injuries. | 0:36:44 | 0:36:46 | |
In a case such as this, there are also a number of injuries | 0:36:46 | 0:36:49 | |
here which amount to defensive-type injuries. | 0:36:49 | 0:36:52 | |
So this lady, when she was being stabbed, was making attempts to | 0:36:52 | 0:36:57 | |
fend off the blows, the repeated blows that were coming her way. | 0:36:57 | 0:37:03 | |
Sometimes the photographs are particularly unpleasant. | 0:37:03 | 0:37:07 | |
And whilst you can speed over the ones that are | 0:37:07 | 0:37:10 | |
particularly unpleasant, that process has to be done. | 0:37:10 | 0:37:13 | |
And ultimately it's my decision to say to the police | 0:37:13 | 0:37:16 | |
and the prosecution service, "These are the photographs | 0:37:16 | 0:37:19 | |
"I want in a bundle for the jury to see." | 0:37:19 | 0:37:21 | |
So I have to go through it. | 0:37:21 | 0:37:24 | |
With the trials approaching, | 0:37:26 | 0:37:29 | |
Richard has a final meeting with his other QC. | 0:37:29 | 0:37:31 | |
The prosecution team that are trying to prove Paul Fox | 0:37:33 | 0:37:36 | |
guilty of murdering his elderly mother are still worried about the | 0:37:36 | 0:37:39 | |
implications of a written confession Paul Fox left at the scene. | 0:37:39 | 0:37:43 | |
At the moment, we have his explanation, which is that, | 0:37:43 | 0:37:47 | |
"I decided I couldn't go on, | 0:37:47 | 0:37:49 | |
"I decided I couldn't leave her | 0:37:49 | 0:37:51 | |
"and so I decided I'd take her and then do myself in." | 0:37:51 | 0:37:54 | |
That's what he SAYS, OK? | 0:37:54 | 0:37:56 | |
But if you actually look at what's HAPPENED, | 0:37:56 | 0:37:58 | |
there are some questions over some of that stuff, I think. | 0:37:58 | 0:38:01 | |
The type of stuff that he buys when he's going to and from the shops, | 0:38:01 | 0:38:04 | |
including the food that he buys. | 0:38:04 | 0:38:06 | |
It's a strange choice of food if you're about to finish everything. | 0:38:06 | 0:38:08 | |
He doesn't actually take his own life, or try to do so, | 0:38:08 | 0:38:11 | |
does he, until really near to the end. | 0:38:11 | 0:38:12 | |
And it has to be said, for reasons that are still not entirely clear, | 0:38:12 | 0:38:15 | |
decided she can't carry on without me, | 0:38:15 | 0:38:17 | |
when she plainly is physically able. | 0:38:17 | 0:38:20 | |
I'm not trying to conjure up phantoms at this point, | 0:38:20 | 0:38:22 | |
but there's a background here of a very claustrophobic | 0:38:22 | 0:38:26 | |
relationship in that house with his mother, and there's alcohol | 0:38:26 | 0:38:29 | |
and his drinking has plainly been a flashpoint before. | 0:38:29 | 0:38:32 | |
I mean, it could be that this suicide business is an afterthought. | 0:38:32 | 0:38:36 | |
That, in fact, they've had the row and he's lost his temper, | 0:38:36 | 0:38:41 | |
and bang, bang, bang. | 0:38:41 | 0:38:42 | |
Now what am I going to do? | 0:38:42 | 0:38:44 | |
You see, that's what I'm wondering. | 0:38:44 | 0:38:46 | |
Yeah, but either he's telling us the truth | 0:38:46 | 0:38:49 | |
and, in fact, on that basis, | 0:38:49 | 0:38:51 | |
it's still difficult to see how he has got any defence, | 0:38:51 | 0:38:53 | |
partial or otherwise, on his account at the moment on the evidence. | 0:38:53 | 0:38:56 | |
Fine. Or the truth is something different. | 0:38:56 | 0:39:00 | |
Paul Fox's lawyer has hired a psychiatrist to write | 0:39:01 | 0:39:04 | |
a report on his state of mind. | 0:39:04 | 0:39:07 | |
It will form part of his defence in court. | 0:39:07 | 0:39:12 | |
I feel a bit nervous actually. Don't know why. | 0:39:12 | 0:39:15 | |
I'm not normally nervous. | 0:39:15 | 0:39:17 | |
Today, Ian Hickman is due in Chester Crown Court. | 0:39:17 | 0:39:20 | |
This will be a plea and case management hearing, | 0:39:20 | 0:39:23 | |
where the trial date can be set and he can enter his plea | 0:39:23 | 0:39:25 | |
to the charge of assault occasioning actual bodily harm. | 0:39:25 | 0:39:29 | |
The CPS is being represented by one of their in-house advocates. | 0:39:31 | 0:39:35 | |
I don't know whether the defendant's going to plead guilty or not guilty | 0:39:35 | 0:39:38 | |
today when he appears for his plea and case management hearing. | 0:39:38 | 0:39:42 | |
So what I'm going to do is complete the questionnaire, which just | 0:39:42 | 0:39:45 | |
basically indicates how we intend to put our case, | 0:39:45 | 0:39:49 | |
which witnesses we're going to call, | 0:39:49 | 0:39:51 | |
and the defence fill their part in as well. | 0:39:51 | 0:39:53 | |
I'm content that there is a case there that does have | 0:39:54 | 0:39:58 | |
a realistic prospect of conviction. | 0:39:58 | 0:40:00 | |
But then we do take cases to court | 0:40:00 | 0:40:02 | |
and they're acquitted. | 0:40:02 | 0:40:03 | |
And it's a very fine-balanced judgment. | 0:40:04 | 0:40:07 | |
Because obviously if we stand in a courtroom with hopeless cases, | 0:40:07 | 0:40:12 | |
we as a service have no credibility. | 0:40:12 | 0:40:14 | |
We want to be able to stand there and say, "We believe in this case." | 0:40:14 | 0:40:17 | |
That's what it means when we prosecute something. | 0:40:17 | 0:40:19 | |
We're saying, "We believe you. | 0:40:19 | 0:40:21 | |
"This has happened the way you've said it's happened | 0:40:21 | 0:40:23 | |
"and we're going to do something about it." | 0:40:23 | 0:40:26 | |
That's what a prosecution is. | 0:40:26 | 0:40:29 | |
I've been very, very stressed out today waiting to see | 0:40:29 | 0:40:31 | |
whether he's pleaded guilty or not. | 0:40:31 | 0:40:35 | |
So I'm just still waiting on that phone call now to see | 0:40:35 | 0:40:37 | |
what's going on, you know? | 0:40:37 | 0:40:39 | |
But, obviously, if he's not pleaded guilty, | 0:40:39 | 0:40:41 | |
it's going to be a long, stressful time. | 0:40:41 | 0:40:43 | |
After consultation with his advocate, | 0:40:45 | 0:40:47 | |
the defendant enters his plea. | 0:40:47 | 0:40:49 | |
He pleaded guilty to all the offences | 0:40:49 | 0:40:52 | |
and his advocate then asked for the case | 0:40:52 | 0:40:54 | |
to be adjourned for pre-sentence report. | 0:40:54 | 0:40:57 | |
And because it's a case of domestic violence, that report will deal with | 0:40:57 | 0:41:01 | |
obviously his background and his attitude towards the offence. | 0:41:01 | 0:41:05 | |
I'm just ringing to ask if you would phone Mrs Driver-Hart | 0:41:05 | 0:41:09 | |
to just let her know what happened in court this morning? | 0:41:09 | 0:41:12 | |
I've just had a call from court to say that he has pleaded guilty. | 0:41:12 | 0:41:16 | |
What they've done is adjourned it now to prepare pre-sentence report. | 0:41:16 | 0:41:20 | |
So what's... I don't understand what that means now. | 0:41:20 | 0:41:23 | |
I thought if he pleaded guilty, | 0:41:23 | 0:41:25 | |
I thought that that would be the end of it now. | 0:41:25 | 0:41:27 | |
Yes, it will be, | 0:41:27 | 0:41:28 | |
but before the judge can sentence him, he'll need a report. | 0:41:28 | 0:41:33 | |
He's still got bail conditions, as before, | 0:41:33 | 0:41:36 | |
not to come within a 100 metres of your home address. | 0:41:36 | 0:41:39 | |
I feel as though it's him that's getting all the pampering | 0:41:40 | 0:41:43 | |
and special measures made for him and this, that and the other. | 0:41:43 | 0:41:46 | |
I just feel as though I've been shoved to one side. | 0:41:46 | 0:41:49 | |
I know you have been helpful to me, | 0:41:49 | 0:41:51 | |
but that's how I feel inside. | 0:41:51 | 0:41:52 | |
A week before Paul Fox is due to go on trial | 0:41:55 | 0:41:58 | |
for the murder of his mother, | 0:41:58 | 0:41:59 | |
the prosecution have been called to court. | 0:41:59 | 0:42:02 | |
The defence have asked for a hearing with the judge. | 0:42:02 | 0:42:05 | |
Quite an impactive for the judge, won't it? | 0:42:09 | 0:42:12 | |
These are the two from the kitchen, aren't they? | 0:42:14 | 0:42:17 | |
It's a massive blade that, actually. | 0:42:19 | 0:42:21 | |
The defence instructed their own psychiatrist. | 0:42:22 | 0:42:26 | |
We've never had a report from them, | 0:42:26 | 0:42:28 | |
because it wasn't particularly favourable from their point of view. | 0:42:28 | 0:42:32 | |
We instructed our own psychiatrist | 0:42:32 | 0:42:35 | |
and he concluded that there are no mental health issues | 0:42:35 | 0:42:39 | |
as far as the defendant is concerned. | 0:42:39 | 0:42:41 | |
He may be alcohol-dependent, but he has no alternative now | 0:42:41 | 0:42:45 | |
but to plead guilty to murder. | 0:42:45 | 0:42:49 | |
I still find it a very sad case. | 0:42:49 | 0:42:51 | |
It is sad. | 0:42:51 | 0:42:53 | |
-I mean, it's sad that a number of lives have been affected. -Yeah. | 0:42:53 | 0:42:55 | |
Obviously, she's gone and her friends and family are still there mourning. | 0:42:55 | 0:42:59 | |
He's wrecked his life, in essence. | 0:42:59 | 0:43:01 | |
He's made that call, made that judgment, | 0:43:01 | 0:43:03 | |
and he'll have to live with that, won't he? | 0:43:03 | 0:43:06 | |
Yeah, sad. | 0:43:06 | 0:43:07 | |
-'Can we have all parties in Fox, Court One, please?' -There we go. | 0:43:10 | 0:43:13 | |
'All parties in Fox, Court One.' | 0:43:13 | 0:43:15 | |
Paul Fox pleads guilty to the murder of his mother. | 0:43:20 | 0:43:24 | |
The judge describes it as | 0:43:24 | 0:43:26 | |
"a sustained and vicious attack that deprived her of her last years in the world". | 0:43:26 | 0:43:31 | |
He sentences him to life imprisonment, | 0:43:31 | 0:43:34 | |
stating he must serve a minimum of 16 years and nine months | 0:43:34 | 0:43:37 | |
before he can be considered for parole. | 0:43:37 | 0:43:41 | |
Paul formed that judgment he was going to take his mum's life | 0:43:41 | 0:43:44 | |
and potentially harm himself. | 0:43:44 | 0:43:46 | |
So he rationalized that, justified that, and the attack to do it, | 0:43:46 | 0:43:50 | |
he was making sure that she wouldn't have survived. | 0:43:50 | 0:43:53 | |
That was an excuse, because he knew she'd got such a lot of friends | 0:43:53 | 0:43:58 | |
and we'd have, you know... If he'd have... | 0:43:58 | 0:44:01 | |
Something had happened to him, she wouldn't have been left. | 0:44:01 | 0:44:04 | |
We were all there, we were all friends, | 0:44:04 | 0:44:07 | |
we looked after one another. | 0:44:07 | 0:44:09 | |
But, yeah, I mean, clearly it wasn't pleasant. | 0:44:09 | 0:44:11 | |
It wasn't nice what went on, and you know about the facts now | 0:44:11 | 0:44:14 | |
and they are in the public domain. | 0:44:14 | 0:44:16 | |
But, you know, it is extremely rare. | 0:44:16 | 0:44:19 | |
It's just, you know, how often does this happen? | 0:44:19 | 0:44:22 | |
It's out of the blue, isn't it? | 0:44:22 | 0:44:24 | |
I'm very sorry for yourselves | 0:44:24 | 0:44:25 | |
that you actually knew the parties involved. | 0:44:25 | 0:44:28 | |
Right. Well, that's good. Really good, actually. | 0:44:28 | 0:44:31 | |
Everything done exactly as it should have been. | 0:44:31 | 0:44:33 | |
-The right result. -Yeah. | 0:44:33 | 0:44:34 | |
And how are the friends? Are they all right? | 0:44:34 | 0:44:37 | |
-Yeah, they seem to be. -Yeah, it's good that they were here. | 0:44:37 | 0:44:40 | |
It's very kind the judge made the comments that he did, I think. | 0:44:40 | 0:44:42 | |
So...the end of a very sad chapter. | 0:44:42 | 0:44:46 | |
Two weeks later, Richard is back at Chester Crown Court. | 0:44:48 | 0:44:52 | |
David Hoyle is going on trial for the murder of Rebecca Bamber. | 0:44:52 | 0:44:56 | |
Here comes the second lot of CPS evidence. There we are. | 0:44:56 | 0:45:00 | |
Jury bundles, files. | 0:45:00 | 0:45:04 | |
There's an awful lot of work goes into it. | 0:45:04 | 0:45:07 | |
And if you believe in justice that's what you want... | 0:45:07 | 0:45:11 | |
bring the right man for the crime. | 0:45:11 | 0:45:17 | |
That's the defence statement. | 0:45:17 | 0:45:19 | |
Yeah. Thank you. | 0:45:19 | 0:45:21 | |
He basically says that Rebecca, the deceased, | 0:45:21 | 0:45:24 | |
started to cause herself serious injury. | 0:45:24 | 0:45:28 | |
He went to assist her, but then says that she came | 0:45:28 | 0:45:33 | |
towards him with a knife. | 0:45:33 | 0:45:35 | |
And his account is proven to be wrong | 0:45:35 | 0:45:38 | |
when you look at the footprints and this overlay. | 0:45:38 | 0:45:41 | |
You can see that what she's actually trying to do is escape. | 0:45:41 | 0:45:45 | |
'All parties for the case of David Hoyle to Court One. | 0:45:45 | 0:45:48 | |
'That's all parties for David Hoyle to Court One, please.' | 0:45:48 | 0:45:51 | |
David Hoyle enters his plea to the charge of murder - | 0:45:55 | 0:45:59 | |
not guilty. | 0:45:59 | 0:46:01 | |
He does, however, admit his actions caused Rebecca Bamber to die. | 0:46:01 | 0:46:06 | |
But he says that was not his intention. | 0:46:06 | 0:46:09 | |
A jury could, dependent on the circumstances, | 0:46:09 | 0:46:12 | |
acquit of murder and convict of manslaughter | 0:46:12 | 0:46:15 | |
and he's saying, "I am guilty of manslaughter." | 0:46:15 | 0:46:18 | |
So that's what happened. | 0:46:18 | 0:46:20 | |
Not acceptable, of course, to the Crown. | 0:46:20 | 0:46:21 | |
But I suppose if he says, "I'm not going to plead," | 0:46:21 | 0:46:24 | |
or, "I'm having a trial," then, what can you do? | 0:46:24 | 0:46:27 | |
All this nonsense about lack of intent | 0:46:27 | 0:46:30 | |
is just precisely that - it's nonsense. | 0:46:30 | 0:46:32 | |
So anyway. There we go. | 0:46:33 | 0:46:36 | |
He didn't rush to go and get an ambulance, did he? | 0:46:36 | 0:46:38 | |
He rushed to escape though, didn't he? | 0:46:38 | 0:46:41 | |
Tomorrow, the prosecution will start to try | 0:46:43 | 0:46:45 | |
and prove to the jury that David Hoyle is guilty of murder. | 0:46:45 | 0:46:49 | |
Rio! Rio! | 0:46:50 | 0:46:54 | |
There you are! | 0:46:54 | 0:46:56 | |
Viv is also going to court. | 0:46:56 | 0:46:58 | |
Having already pleaded guilty to assaulting her, | 0:46:58 | 0:47:01 | |
Ian Hickman is due to be sentenced. | 0:47:01 | 0:47:04 | |
I'll get you some clean water. | 0:47:05 | 0:47:08 | |
I just feel as though he needs to be given the punishment that is | 0:47:08 | 0:47:11 | |
required for the injuries that I sustained. | 0:47:11 | 0:47:15 | |
And it's a simple as that. | 0:47:15 | 0:47:16 | |
It's not going to be a nice feeling, I know it's not. | 0:47:18 | 0:47:21 | |
There you go, Rio. | 0:47:21 | 0:47:22 | |
Because no-one wants to see anyone go to prison. | 0:47:22 | 0:47:25 | |
But there again, my daughter wouldn't have liked | 0:47:25 | 0:47:27 | |
to see me six foot under. | 0:47:27 | 0:47:28 | |
So what will happen is I basically outline the facts to the judge | 0:47:36 | 0:47:40 | |
and then we deal with the defendant's antecedent history. | 0:47:40 | 0:47:43 | |
That is, whether he's been in trouble before. | 0:47:43 | 0:47:46 | |
The starting point for a category one offence is one year six months, | 0:47:46 | 0:47:50 | |
with a range between one to three years. | 0:47:50 | 0:47:52 | |
But clearly in this case there are aggravating features, | 0:47:52 | 0:47:56 | |
namely his previous convictions for assaulting females | 0:47:56 | 0:48:00 | |
with whom he's been in a relationship. | 0:48:00 | 0:48:03 | |
I would be very surprised if it wasn't custody, | 0:48:03 | 0:48:05 | |
and I would be very surprised if it wasn't a lengthy custodial sentence. | 0:48:05 | 0:48:08 | |
After this morning, that should be an end to it for you. | 0:48:08 | 0:48:12 | |
Yeah. | 0:48:12 | 0:48:13 | |
And then, hopefully, you can try and maybe put it behind you | 0:48:13 | 0:48:16 | |
a little bit more, because at least | 0:48:16 | 0:48:18 | |
you'll know that he's been dealt with. | 0:48:18 | 0:48:21 | |
-All right? -Thank you. | 0:48:21 | 0:48:22 | |
Before Ian Hickman is sentenced, | 0:48:22 | 0:48:25 | |
Jayne has two other cases to deal with. | 0:48:25 | 0:48:27 | |
I lay awake last night. | 0:48:28 | 0:48:30 | |
I was thinking, "How is he going to cope in prison?" | 0:48:30 | 0:48:33 | |
Cos he's been there before. | 0:48:36 | 0:48:39 | |
'Will Ian Hickman come to reception, please? Ian Hickman to reception.' | 0:48:39 | 0:48:45 | |
(That's twice they've called him. He's still not there.) | 0:48:47 | 0:48:50 | |
Oh, God. | 0:48:54 | 0:48:56 | |
Some Jaffa cakes there, isn't there? | 0:48:56 | 0:48:58 | |
Go on, you can have some. She sent them in for us. | 0:48:58 | 0:49:00 | |
Oh, brilliant. | 0:49:00 | 0:49:02 | |
-Is he there? -Sorry? -Is he there? | 0:49:02 | 0:49:05 | |
-I haven't seen him. -Just called him twice now. | 0:49:05 | 0:49:07 | |
-Probably... -Called him half an hour ago and again now. | 0:49:07 | 0:49:10 | |
Might just be waiting to... | 0:49:10 | 0:49:12 | |
You know, he could have problems getting here. You don't know. | 0:49:12 | 0:49:15 | |
-KNOCK ON DOOR -It's not good news, I'm afraid. | 0:49:15 | 0:49:18 | |
-Why, what's happened? -At present, he isn't here. | 0:49:18 | 0:49:21 | |
I'm going to go and check again. | 0:49:21 | 0:49:23 | |
If it's still the case that he isn't here and there is no medical evidence | 0:49:23 | 0:49:26 | |
with a reason why he's not here which... | 0:49:26 | 0:49:28 | |
There can't be surely. I've got a chest infection. | 0:49:28 | 0:49:31 | |
..I don't think there is. | 0:49:31 | 0:49:32 | |
I'm going to be applying for a warrant without bail, | 0:49:32 | 0:49:34 | |
which means that he will be arrested. | 0:49:34 | 0:49:36 | |
-If I was a judge, I wouldn't be very happy. -No. | 0:49:36 | 0:49:39 | |
He's making a mockery of the justice system. | 0:49:39 | 0:49:42 | |
All right, then. So... Sorry. The warrant's been issued. | 0:49:43 | 0:49:46 | |
So, hopefully, now he'll be arrested in the near future, really, | 0:49:46 | 0:49:50 | |
and then brought to court for his sentence. | 0:49:50 | 0:49:52 | |
How long is the near future? | 0:49:52 | 0:49:53 | |
Well, as soon as the police can find out where he is. | 0:49:53 | 0:49:55 | |
He's not going to be bothered at all now about what he does. | 0:49:55 | 0:49:58 | |
So I've got to watch me back as well now. | 0:49:58 | 0:50:00 | |
Yes, yes. Well, if you have any concerns whatsoever, if you have any | 0:50:00 | 0:50:04 | |
-contact from him whatsoever, you need to phone the police immediately. -Right. | 0:50:04 | 0:50:08 | |
Immediately. | 0:50:08 | 0:50:10 | |
It is now 15 months since Viv was assaulted. | 0:50:10 | 0:50:14 | |
The sentencing of her attacker has to be postponed | 0:50:14 | 0:50:16 | |
until the police can find and arrest him. | 0:50:16 | 0:50:19 | |
It's just killing me inside now, it really is. | 0:50:20 | 0:50:23 | |
But you've got to be strong and you've got to keep on going | 0:50:23 | 0:50:26 | |
and let them know that they're not going to beat you. | 0:50:26 | 0:50:29 | |
I'm the stronger person than he is. | 0:50:29 | 0:50:31 | |
I'm not the coward that hasn't turned up for court. | 0:50:31 | 0:50:34 | |
I'm the stronger one that's sat here waiting, | 0:50:35 | 0:50:38 | |
and I will wait and wait until his day comes. | 0:50:38 | 0:50:41 | |
The trial of David Hoyle is entering its fourth day. | 0:50:42 | 0:50:46 | |
The defendant will spend this afternoon in the witness box giving | 0:50:46 | 0:50:50 | |
his version of the events that led to the death of Rebecca Bamber. | 0:50:50 | 0:50:54 | |
Tomorrow, the prosecution will be able to cross-examine. | 0:51:30 | 0:51:34 | |
I think what we'll do tomorrow is we'll have a little look about | 0:51:34 | 0:51:36 | |
-what he's actually saying and go through it piece by piece. -Yes. | 0:51:36 | 0:51:40 | |
So when you come downstairs, | 0:51:40 | 0:51:42 | |
-where was Rebecca when you came downstairs? -Yes. | 0:51:42 | 0:51:45 | |
Why did you not just walk out of the house? | 0:51:45 | 0:51:49 | |
I think if you're being cross-examined by somebody | 0:51:51 | 0:51:54 | |
extremely intelligent, who's forensically cross-examining you, | 0:51:54 | 0:51:59 | |
and you're not telling the truth, I think that shines through. | 0:51:59 | 0:52:03 | |
And I don't think this defendant is telling the truth | 0:52:03 | 0:52:06 | |
as to what happened in this house. | 0:52:06 | 0:52:08 | |
So I think there is quite a lot of ground | 0:52:08 | 0:52:10 | |
for the cross-examination being quite a key point of the case. | 0:52:10 | 0:52:14 | |
Gordon Cole's cross-examination of David Hoyle takes three hours. | 0:52:15 | 0:52:19 | |
The jury retires to consider their verdict. | 0:53:07 | 0:53:10 | |
First question, "Why did you murder Rebecca Bamber?" | 0:53:10 | 0:53:14 | |
And he went to town on him. | 0:53:14 | 0:53:17 | |
This is the worst part now. It's the waiting game. | 0:53:17 | 0:53:20 | |
There's nothing more you can do. | 0:53:20 | 0:53:22 | |
It's what this system is all about is the jury system. | 0:53:22 | 0:53:25 | |
That's what they're there for. | 0:53:25 | 0:53:28 | |
All we can do is wait. | 0:53:28 | 0:53:31 | |
And we don't know how long. | 0:53:31 | 0:53:33 | |
It could be a week, could be half an hour. | 0:53:33 | 0:53:36 | |
'All parties in the matter of Hoyle to Court One.' | 0:53:38 | 0:53:41 | |
'All parties in the matter of Hoyle to Court One, please.' | 0:53:41 | 0:53:46 | |
-OK. Well, here we go. -Here we go. | 0:53:46 | 0:53:49 | |
After one hour of deliberation, | 0:53:50 | 0:53:52 | |
the jury return their verdict. | 0:53:52 | 0:53:54 | |
They find David Hoyle guilty of murder. | 0:53:56 | 0:53:58 | |
He is sentenced to life imprisonment | 0:54:00 | 0:54:03 | |
and must serve at least 25 years before being considered for parole. | 0:54:03 | 0:54:07 | |
-It's not about winning. It isn't, is it? -No. | 0:54:07 | 0:54:10 | |
It's a feeling that when you've got to the end of it, | 0:54:10 | 0:54:12 | |
it almost is deflation, | 0:54:12 | 0:54:15 | |
because you've lived on the adrenaline, | 0:54:15 | 0:54:17 | |
and you've worked and we all work hard, | 0:54:17 | 0:54:19 | |
and the preparation of getting it to trial. | 0:54:19 | 0:54:21 | |
And when it's finished, there's no energy left. | 0:54:21 | 0:54:23 | |
It is a deflated feeling, | 0:54:23 | 0:54:25 | |
-because it does come to a shuddering halt. -It does, it does. | 0:54:25 | 0:54:28 | |
-Everything ends. That's it. -That's finished with now. | 0:54:28 | 0:54:30 | |
Finished. Finished with. | 0:54:30 | 0:54:32 | |
Never easy, but we've got the right result | 0:54:33 | 0:54:36 | |
and so I feel pretty good at the moment. | 0:54:36 | 0:54:39 | |
Seems quite a long time ago that you were sat at your desk | 0:54:39 | 0:54:43 | |
and you'd had two murders in. | 0:54:43 | 0:54:45 | |
And we've done both, and both are finished. | 0:54:45 | 0:54:48 | |
And both ended in convictions. | 0:54:48 | 0:54:50 | |
Oh, were it all like that. | 0:54:50 | 0:54:52 | |
It would be a lie to say that cases don't have an impact | 0:54:55 | 0:55:01 | |
on me or on our prosecutors. | 0:55:01 | 0:55:05 | |
We wouldn't be human if they didn't. | 0:55:05 | 0:55:09 | |
You have to, though, remain objective, | 0:55:09 | 0:55:13 | |
however upsetting something is. | 0:55:13 | 0:55:15 | |
Because if you lose it, | 0:55:15 | 0:55:17 | |
then you're not objectively dealing with the case as a lawyer. | 0:55:17 | 0:55:21 | |
Very, very difficult | 0:55:21 | 0:55:23 | |
when you then meet victims or the families of deceased. | 0:55:23 | 0:55:27 | |
And I remember someone's grandfather holding my hand | 0:55:27 | 0:55:30 | |
when I was talking about his grandson who'd been murdered. | 0:55:30 | 0:55:33 | |
Terribly upsetting, but there's no point in me crying. | 0:55:33 | 0:55:37 | |
That would look unprofessional and ridiculous. | 0:55:37 | 0:55:40 | |
You can't sit weeping. | 0:55:40 | 0:55:42 | |
You never knew the person and it would just look wrong. | 0:55:42 | 0:55:45 | |
So you have to keep yourself professional and objective, | 0:55:45 | 0:55:50 | |
but with empathy, | 0:55:50 | 0:55:51 | |
and then cry in the car going home. | 0:55:51 | 0:55:53 | |
It takes the police two months to catch up with Ian Hickman. | 0:56:01 | 0:56:04 | |
He's arrested and returned to court for sentencing. | 0:56:06 | 0:56:10 | |
Right, I've just checked. He's here now | 0:56:10 | 0:56:12 | |
and it's going into Court Three. | 0:56:12 | 0:56:14 | |
It's quite a small court, | 0:56:14 | 0:56:16 | |
so you will be in quite close proximity to him. | 0:56:16 | 0:56:19 | |
OK, thanks. | 0:56:19 | 0:56:21 | |
All right. Don't worry. | 0:56:21 | 0:56:23 | |
OK. I'll be back in a minute to let you know. | 0:56:23 | 0:56:25 | |
It's the thought of seeing him, | 0:56:25 | 0:56:27 | |
cos I've not seen him proper since that night. | 0:56:27 | 0:56:30 | |
And it's the thought of... | 0:56:30 | 0:56:34 | |
how much I thought of him. | 0:56:34 | 0:56:36 | |
And then many a person would say, "Hang on a minute, you were | 0:56:36 | 0:56:39 | |
"nearly murdered. What you crying for? | 0:56:39 | 0:56:41 | |
"Why are you bothered?" | 0:56:41 | 0:56:42 | |
Because I have feelings, that's why. | 0:56:42 | 0:56:44 | |
I have a heart and I care for people. | 0:56:44 | 0:56:47 | |
The judge decides that Ian Hickman needs to be | 0:56:50 | 0:56:52 | |
sentenced at the top end of the range. | 0:56:52 | 0:56:55 | |
His guilty plea earns him a 25% discount, | 0:56:55 | 0:56:58 | |
but with several other offences to be taken into account, | 0:56:58 | 0:57:01 | |
he ends up with four years and three months imprisonment. | 0:57:01 | 0:57:05 | |
The three months added on for his failure | 0:57:05 | 0:57:07 | |
to appear at the original hearing. | 0:57:07 | 0:57:10 | |
-Four years, three months. -Four years, three months. | 0:57:10 | 0:57:13 | |
Which is a hefty sentence. | 0:57:13 | 0:57:15 | |
It is, yeah. | 0:57:15 | 0:57:17 | |
But quite right. | 0:57:17 | 0:57:19 | |
I mean, he's clearly not happy about the sentence, but... | 0:57:19 | 0:57:22 | |
Was it him that banged my door? | 0:57:22 | 0:57:24 | |
-I think possibly it was him, yeah. -Yeah. | 0:57:24 | 0:57:27 | |
But it is such a big sentence though. | 0:57:27 | 0:57:29 | |
I don't think he would've thought he would've had that length of time. | 0:57:29 | 0:57:33 | |
Yeah, yeah. | 0:57:33 | 0:57:35 | |
-I think it sunk in the amount of damage he has done to me. -Yeah. | 0:57:35 | 0:57:39 | |
And that's it for you now. | 0:57:39 | 0:57:41 | |
Thank you. And I'm very grateful to you. | 0:57:41 | 0:57:43 | |
I'm glad it's all sorted for you. | 0:57:43 | 0:57:44 | |
Oh, thanks so much. | 0:57:44 | 0:57:46 | |
-And I don't wish to see you again. -Oh! | 0:57:46 | 0:57:48 | |
-Not in a nasty way. -That's all right. | 0:57:48 | 0:57:50 | |
That's in a nice way. | 0:57:50 | 0:57:51 | |
When you've been attacked like that, I think you need | 0:57:55 | 0:57:57 | |
to face the person and that's what I've done. | 0:57:57 | 0:58:00 | |
I just wanted to look at him just to see if he had any remorse, | 0:58:00 | 0:58:03 | |
and he did. | 0:58:03 | 0:58:05 | |
And now it's been laid to rest. | 0:58:05 | 0:58:08 | |
Rest in peace. | 0:58:08 | 0:58:09 | |
If you're interested in finding out more about the justice system, | 0:58:13 | 0:58:17 | |
you can join in a simulated court case | 0:58:17 | 0:58:19 | |
from The Open University and reach your own verdict. | 0:58:19 | 0:58:23 | |
Go to bbc.co.uk/prosecutors | 0:58:23 | 0:58:26 | |
and follow the links to The Open University. | 0:58:26 | 0:58:29 |