Episode 2 Hilary Devey's Women at the Top

This is Hilary Devey's empire -

an international haulage network with £100 million a year turnover.

I built this business in the most male-dominated sector

you could ever imagine.

I did not let being a woman stand in my way.

If I can do it, why can't every woman do it?

Today, women make up half of Britain's workforce,

but fewer than one in five of the most senior roles.

I see it every day - businesses are dominated by men in grey suits.

It's time for a change.

Last time, Hilary witnessed the exodus of women

from the management pyramid,

leaving only a few to make it to the top.

It's a shocking waste of talent.

It's bad for the women and for our economy.

And she discovered how mixed-gender teams can mean more profit.

It's better for us as a business to have gender balance,

because we get five percent better business results.

Now, Hilary is seeking solutions

to transform the prospects of working women.

She'll be investigating ways to bring women into key roles...

We need to smash - that is the right word -

what is an all-male society.

..asking what companies can do to keep climbing the career ladder...

I do have guilt, but I don't have it constantly

and I don't spend every day making very difficult choices.

..and transforming her own business from the shop floor up.

The more I think about it, the better it'll be,

because it's the perfect job for a woman.

I want to find solutions whether they come from government,

from men, from women, from company bosses.

I want solutions that will deliver the goods.

Hilary Devey has been finding out

what's stopping women from getting to the top.

What she's discovered has challenged some of her own deeply-held beliefs.

When I started on this journey, I tended to think that...

if women really wanted it,

why can't they go out and get it? Because I did.

But the more I've looked into it, there are things that husbands,

boyfriends, whatever can do to help, things that companies can do to help.

To develop solutions, Hilary opened up her logistics company, Pall-Ex,

to a gender expert.

She discovered a lack of women in key areas of the business,

including the Board of Directors.

-A pretty male-dominated leadership team.

-Yeah.

Why, do you think?

I think it's about people who present themselves for interview.

Ten men sit on the Pall-Ex board and only one woman - Hilary herself.

This gender imbalance could be affecting the bottom line.

Today, companies that are more gender-balanced simply deliver

better financial results than those that aren't.

It was like a bolt of lightning after meeting with Avivah.

Because I then started to look at the profit per department,

and what I actually discovered is that the most profitable department

that we have has got a gender balance of 50-50.

Mixed gender departments do produce more profit.

It is absolutely fact.

Now, Hilary is heading to Pall-Ex

to discuss the lack of women on her board.

Together with her managing director, Adrian Russell,

she decides to raise the issue with the other senior company directors.

So I think that we put it on our agenda for the next board meeting.

I mean, this won't happen overnight.

It's going to be transitional

and it might be a have a five-year timescale,

but we ought to try and focus to get more females on our main board.

You're right. I think the whole board needs to engage with that

and see the challenges and opportunities presented.

What we can't do is actually say to our directors,

"Well, we're now going to replace you with women,"

and we wouldn't want to do that anyway,

but we ought to start thinking ahead to the future,

or, if we do see a board position becoming vacant,

then try to get more of a mixed gender on it.

-It's basically to look again at our succession planning.

-Yeah.

-OK.

I'd love more of a gender-mixed board at Pall-Ex.

Most definitely.

But that's a longer-term issue to address,

because I can't suddenly say to all of our male board members,

"Sorry, there's no place for you on our board any more,

"as I need to replace you with females."

So it's not going to happen overnight

and I don't believe we're an unusual company in that respect.

But at least I can honestly say my eyes are open to it

and I will be addressing it for succession planning in the future.

The lack of women on the board isn't just a problem facing Pall-Ex.

Women hold fewer than one in five boardroom jobs

in Britain's biggest companies.

While businesses look for their own solutions,

one idea promises to break up the male monopoly overnight -

female quotas.

To learn more,

Hilary is embarking on a foreign fact-finding mission.

I'm just putting a few things into the case now,

just something formal for a meeting and something very warm,

because I think it's going to be very, very cold.

Hilary is heading to Norway.

Controversially, the country has adopted a quota law,

forcing all major companies to have at least 40% women on their boards.

DOG YAPS

Hilary wants to know if quotas are the right solution for the UK.

I'm looking forward to going to Norway,

because I want to find out more about the quota legislation.

I don't necessarily agree, at this moment in time,

with mandatory quota legislation

but I'm going to go, I'm going to look,

I'm going to hear, I'm going to use both ears

and very little of my mouth, because what I want to do is learn.

With a population of five million people,

Norway has grown rich on male-dominated industries

like oil exploration and fishing.

But this rugged land of fjords and forests

has also embraced its feminine side.

Mothers benefit from almost a year's maternity leave at full pay,

state-funded nurseries and, thanks to its quota law,

women account for 44% of the boards of public companies.

However, as a successful entrepreneur,

Hilary is sceptical about quota legislation.

Personally, as a commercial businesswoman,

I would hate the thought of quotas being imposed,

because there's a certain ring of tokenism to it.

Hilary is heading to the place where the quota started -

the Norwegian Parliament.

# Come on, baby, light my fire... #

She's meeting the person who pioneered the law,

not just a conservative politician, but also a man.

Hilary wants to know how he became a champion of the women's cause.

So, Ansgar, are you a feminist?

No, I've never been a feminist

and I'm not a feminist. That was not the main reason why I did it.

If the quota legislation was not about feminism, what was it about?

We had a debate in the middle of the '90s about women in the boards.

The fact was that only six percent of the member of the boards

in public companies were women.

The government and the Parliament had used billions and billions

to educate our daughters over the last 30 years

and they were kept out of a very, very important arena,

so, for me, it was very much, "Let us use the whole population

"to the most important thing in the society."

In 2002, Trade Minister Gabrielsen announced in a newspaper interview

he was introducing the boardroom quota.

Incredibly, he hadn't consulted his government colleagues.

No-one knew about it.

I had not been talking with the Prime Minister,

not with any in the party leadership.

How did you do that? How can you...?

Well, I had been in politics for more than 25 years

at that time, in 2002,

and I had always been a good liar.

Now, I had the idea to do a revolution

and if you want to do a revolution, you do it the revolution way.

# Come on, baby, light my fire... #

The quota law hasn't just sparked a revolution in Norway.

Countries like Spain and France have adopted the same approach

and the EU is now considering imposing a quota

across the whole of Europe, including Britain.

You know that, for myself,

I made it always very clear.

I am not fond of quotas.

But I very much like what quotas do

and maybe it's necessary to do what quotas do.

With a quota law looming on the horizon,

Hilary wants to find out how it's benefited Norwegian business.

She's meeting a woman who sits on the board of four public companies.

In your opinion, how do women operate differently from men

in a boardroom environment?

In my experience, they are more brave to ask questions,

maybe the difficult questions, maybe the stupid questions

and they are coming also from another angle into business

and I think that is very healthy.

But what is most important, in my view,

is to balance the different experiences and the different views.

It is of utmost importance in the boardroom.

Norway's boardrooms may be more balanced,

but the people who run the companies day-to-day -

the chief executives - are mostly male.

So, from your perspective, you feel the quota has worked,

and it's worked successfully for Norway?

Yes, I do think it works.

But only 2% of CEOs...

..are female.

Yeah, that's true.

So the quota legislation has not helped them get to the top, has it?

-But it will. It will.

-When?

-It takes some years.

We will see more women in top positions

but this is also a kind of way of encouraging this

and I think it's necessary.

Despite Norway's boardroom revolution,

some argue that quotas won't solve the lack of women in senior roles.

The most relevant criticism of the quota is that it has failed,

to some degree - at least failed to radically increase

the number of female senior executives.

There is some movement, but it's slow

and I believe the reason for that

is that you can't solve that challenge, top-down.

You have to change it, bottom-up.

That's where childcare and sharing parental leave, etc, comes in.

I believe those measures are more effective.

In Norway, they're not just focusing at the top,

they're also developing solutions to help every woman with a career.

One idea is shared parental leave after the birth of a child.

In many countries, parental leave is geared towards mothers.

Long periods off work can disrupt their careers

and create prejudice among employees.

In Norway, mums and dads

are encouraged to share the leave equally.

Sinna Dokka took seven months leave after the birth of her daughter.

Now she's gone back to work, passing the childcare to her partner.

I think I have always had the idea that

I would want to combine a family and a career.

But now, having a family,

I wouldn't say it's impossible but it's demanding.

In that perspective, it's important to have a partner who is supportive

and actually interested in sharing the responsibility.

'My partner had her plans for her career,'

and they were as important for her as my plans are for me

and, in that sense, it feels quite natural for both of us to share responsibilities.

Norwegian dads are encouraged to take at least three months parental leave

but this can be extended to ten months at full pay.

Trygve, who's a doctor, is taking nearly five months off from his job.

'When I first said that I was going to be a dad for the first time,

'I was congratulated by my boss

'and a few weeks later, we had a discussion

'about how we were going to organise the leave at work.'

And, fortunately for me, all the people -

both my colleagues and my boss -

were all happy about a dad wanting to stay at home a bit longer.

# The night we met

# I knew I

# I needed you so... #

Sharing parental leave

means women take less time out from the workplace,

while the men master the fine arts of childcare.

# Be my

# Be my baby

# Be my little baby

# Be my baby love

# Be my baby now... #

In Norway, 90% of men

now take at least three months parental leave.

In the UK, only 40% of men take their two-week entitlement.

For this new generation of Nordic men,

sharing the childcare is part of creating a more equal society.

Sure, it makes the total period of time you're off work

more acceptable for both employers,

both for the man and the woman.

It's going to be down to less than half a year.

It's not a question of hurting one career, or the other,

it's going to be acceptable on both sides.

Some believe that shared parental leave, rather than boardroom quotas,

is a better solution to helping women in their careers.

May be the biggest effect

is that it's become very acceptable for men

to also be away from the workforce and when you employ somebody,

it's not automatic that you look at a woman

and think, "She'll be gone twice in the next few years for a year's time

"and this man I could hire, he won't."

You have a more equal expectation of that now, which is a good thing.

Back in Britain, the government is now considering plans

to introduce Scandinavian-style system of shared parental leave.

At the moment, paternity leave is very, very limited indeed.

The coalition government is committed to setting up

a system in this Parliament,

which will move us much more

in what you call the Norwegian direction.

The new proposals could mean fathers being entitled to nine months parental leave

after the birth of a child.

In order to make that happen, we have to match them to employers,

we have to get this fully computerised.

This is complicated, but what we're doing at the moment

is creating a legal framework within which this can happen.

Some business leaders think such a system could have a big impact

on Britain's 4.5 million small companies.

It seems to me there are some pluses for the children of these parents

but clearly, if you're running a small or medium-sized enterprise,

it is more difficult because you have to recognise

these companies may only employ 10 or 15 people.

If, at any one time, two or three of them are not there,

that's 30% of the workforce.

That will add cost, therefore, to the business

and they will lose experience as well.

You know, if I were a small business owner, I'd be worried.

Following her trip to Norway, Hilary has been reflecting

on the Scandinavian model of shared parental leave.

Bye, bye.

She's also worried about the impact it could have on British business.

Small to medium enterprises, that are generally privately-owned companies,

just would not function. It would see the demise of them.

As they make up 86% of our economy,

I think it would be a rather silly decision to make.

Instead of changing parental leave,

Hilary wants to focus on the problems facing women

when they return to their careers.

She thinks it's time for businesses to develop solutions.

Two, three, or even four-year sabbatical for a tour of motherhood

is a very short period in a woman's working life.

Most women now will be working until they are 60, 65.

Two to four years is a fraction of their working life

and I think employers should think more laterally

and think more like that.

Because, if they create the right environment,

those women will want to return.

Ruby McGregor-Smith is one of the most successful businesswomen in Britain.

She agrees that companies play a vital role in helping women

balance their careers with motherhood.

Today, Ruby is at an event

to inspire the next generation of business leaders.

Our next speaker has worked her way all the way up to the top.

Ruby McGregor-Smith.

APPLAUSE

So a little bit about me, I grew up in North London.

My parents came here when I was one...

As the boss of MITIE, an outsourcing company

that employs more than 60,000 people,

Ruby is one of only ten female chief executives in the FTSE 250.

What young people today need to hear

is that you can achieve and you can do well.

You need confidence sometimes and it's important hear from people like me

that it is possible, if you work really hard, to do well.

Ruby may have reached the top,

but she knows all about the challenge of balancing work

with raising a young family.

After the birth of her second child,

she took a two-year break from her high-flying career.

It gave me some time,

it gave me some space that meant I wasn't so tired.

Sleepless nights are never great,

it's never great to combine sleepless nights with a big career

and once all that had settled down, you know, that was really good.

When Ruby decided to relaunch her career,

she knew finding an understanding employer was vital.

I had a very supportive employer when I joined MITIE.

My chief executive was hugely supportive

of the fact that I had a young family.

That really made a huge difference.

I think, for women that do want to have both a career

and bring up a family, they absolutely need the right support

and they absolutely need not just the right support at home,

they need the right support in the workplace.

I think more mentors, more support

and more understanding in the workplace

will definitely get more of them to consider coming back

and having a career, because they believe they will be supported to do both.

That really does matter.

Some of the UK's biggest companies are trying to find solutions

to help women balance their careers with childcare.

The Ford Motor Company hasn't always had the easiest relationship with its female workers.

What are you striking about?

At the moment, we're B grade, which is a labourer

and we think we should have C grade, which is skilled labour.

In the 1960s,

the company tried to cut the pay of women working at its Dagenham plant.

The resulting walkout brought production to a halt.

Today, Ford has certainly moved on.

It's trying to address a problem facing many working mothers -

finding affordable childcare facilities.

For Hilary, it's one of the biggest issues women face

when restarting their careers.

What we've got to try and do, as a country, as employers,

as the government of the country, is try and make them returning back

into the working environment as easy as possible

and the biggest stumbling block to get women back into the workplace

is childcare and the cost of childcare.

Ford's research centre in Dunton, Essex,

has its own dedicated creche facility.

Thanks to her employer, engineer Wendy Graham's morning routine

is a well-oiled machine.

Well, my morning alarm sometimes is a little girl coming in at 5:30,

before the alarm goes off, so I have my shower, I get dressed.

We have some porridge and we leave the house by 6:45.

Good girl.

After the birth of her daughter, Amelie,

Wendy took 12 months maternity leave.

Time to go.

But she was keen to return full-time to her job

as an engineering manager.

I work in a very male-dominated engineering environment.

I was the only female manager in my organisation

and I felt that it was important that I returned to work

without any compromises.

Amelie goes to nursery five days a week.

Nursery opens at 7:15 and we're normally one of the first there.

And by 7:30, latest, I'm at my desk.

For many parents, the morning rush-hour means shuttling between nursery and the office

but Wendy's mornings are stress-free,

because she only needs to make one trip.

OK, here we go. Where are we?

-Nearly.

-Nearly.

Wendy still has to pay to use the in-house creche,

but as the running costs and site are subsidised by Ford,

it's cheaper than a private facility.

Here we are!

Get your bag.

Even more valuable for time-poor parents

is the convenience of having their children nearby.

I don't worry about my childcare.

From the minute I leave the nursery, I'm in work mode.

-Morning, Christine.

-Morning!

I can drop Amelie off, I can be at my desk in five minutes.

Likewise, at the end of the day, I can be up here in five minutes.

So the challenges of motherhood and having a career

are really minimised by having the on-site provision.

Who are you going to play with today, Amelie?

Ford says there are good commercial reasons

for providing subsidised childcare.

Because we have a variety of different provisions for our working parents,

this translates into higher levels of engagement,

higher levels of satisfaction

and a more positive working atmosphere.

This is something that is good for business,

this is good for us to provide as a favourable employer.

Wendy shares the drop-off and picking-up duties

with her husband, who also works at Ford.

It means she can fit in last-minute meetings, or work trips.

I have been able to combine family life with working life,

with minimal stress and it means that

I am overall equal to a working employee

that doesn't have children.

-CHRIS EVANS ON THE RADIO:

-'7:31, it's going to be quite nice today.

'We played this last week and people loved it,

'so we're going to play it again. And perhaps every Tuesday.'

# How do you like your eggs in the morning? #

Another problem facing career women

is not having enough hours in the day

to meet both family and work commitments.

One company that's trying to help is one of Britain's biggest, BT.

Its 70,000 staff can choose from a range of flexible work patterns.

Married mother of four Karren Bonnet

is a channel director at BT.

She's a full-time employee and she works flexi hours from home,

so she can fit her job around her life.

Because I don't have to rush to go anywhere,

because they're the only thing I need to focus on, it is quite calm.

Whereas, if you're working in an office, you've got to get ready,

make sure you've got everything, etc, etc.

So it takes some of the pressure off.

-How long do I have to do it for, again?

-20 seconds.

Karren is normally at her PC by six in the morning,

so she's already done an hour's work before the school run.

-What you have to do for the medieval feast?

-Dance.

-You've got to dance?

-Yeah.

-No way!

Nobody would ever ask me how my working day was structured,

except to put an appointment in.

I would never be asked about the school run,

am I available, whatever time.

Everything is within my control

and people accept that there may need to be some flexibility around calls

you put in the diary at the beginning or end of the day.

How I work now is absolutely the norm.

Half an hour after dropping the kids off, Karren is back home and at her desk.

So here we are, what does my day look like today?

From nine o'clock onwards, a series of calls through until 12:30,

where I'll have a short break for lunch.

Then I come back to the office for further calls

throughout the afternoon.

BT says that flexible working helps retain valued employees.

More than 90% of women return to the company after maternity leave,

more than double the industry average.

Quite a few women work from home occasionally

because that makes it easier for them to take their share

of the picking up and dropping off.

Another popular form with women is term-time working

so they can be there for kids when they're needed most.

Also, from a family perspective,

it cuts down on the costs of childcare for the whole family.

After catching up with e-mails,

it's time for Karren to call her boss, Gary.

He also works from home, 130 miles away in rural Suffolk.

PHONE RINGS

-Gary Norgate speaking, good afternoon.

-Hi Gary, it's Karren.

Oh, hello, Karren, how are you?

From his home HQ, Gary directs around 500 people,

around half of whom work flexibly.

BT says each home worker saves them £6,000,

a total of around 70 million per year.

It also saves hundreds of millions a year

through having less office space.

I've got people on four-day weeks,

three-day weeks,

just about any combination you could imagine.

It's every sort of flexibility.

But the common thing is they know what they've got to do,

they know when they've got to do it

and they know that their principal objective

is to make sure that doesn't slip.

Other than that, flexible as you like.

Like Karren, Gary can choose when to be at his desk,

or when to be with his wife and seven-year-old daughter, Alice.

Hello, darling.

'It's just so nice to be able to be there in the evening,'

see how she's got on at school, read her a story,

be there when she gets up. Not every morning, it's not going to work that way

but two or three days a week,

it's fantastic, it feels like you're being part of it.

You're contributing something, rather than just being the money earner. I just plain enjoy it.

Flexible working has also allowed Karren to see more of her family,

but it hasn't held her back in her career.

Over the last six years, she has been promoted three times,

rising through the ranks from sales to senior management.

I can honestly say that flexible working

has not held me back in any way, shape or form

and I have no doubt in my mind

it's ensured that not only have I stayed in the workplace

but I've managed to progress up the career ladder in BT.

After lunch, Karren is ready for her next appointment,

helping to organise a medieval feast at her boys' school.

Flexible working means she doesn't have to justify the juggling act.

The greatest benefit is I don't have the constant guilt.

I do have guilt, but I don't have it constantly,

and they don't spend every day making very difficult choices,

ie work, children.

Back at home, Karren finishes her work for the day

before changing for her evening event.

Very busy day but it's amazing to be here, it looks fantastic

and to see the children enjoying themselves

is just everything you could hope for.

Flexible working may be a solution for women employed by big companies

but what about smaller enterprises?

Hilary is on her way to Derbyshire

to visit a family business that's embraced the flexible approach.

I've actually talked to large corporates

who manage very, very well within their structure

but then they have a huge pool of human resource.

So it's very easy for them to accommodate flexible working time.

But I want to understand fully the implications of small businesses.

The company Hilary's visiting may be small,

but they've pulled off something she's yet to accomplish -

balancing work with family life.

I built my own business from nothing and I still do not have it all.

I wholeheartedly admit that.

If I'm absolutely honest, I don't have a work/life balance.

Scott and Hayley Bradshaw own an accountancy practice in Matlock,

employing nine people.

They've built their work routine around caring for their three children.

They even bring their youngest, George, into the office.

We've got some of George's toys on the floor.

George is my little boy, he's eight months old now

but he does come into the office, every now and again,

to spend a morning with us

or a full day, sometimes, which is good fun for all of us.

Over the last seven years,

Hayley has taken three periods of maternity leave.

She now works part-time, but some clients have been frustrated

by her absence from the office.

We've got a family as well as a business.

Sometimes the family comes with us, sometimes the business goes home

and if they can see it, yes, we can gain clients from it as well.

So people that are happy

to have their e-mails answered at ten o'clock, midnight, or whatever,

after the kids have gone to bed, they're happy with that.

As well as juggling their own childcare, Scott and Hayley

have had to adjust to four members of staff

taking time off for maternity leave.

Hilary wants to know how they've coped

with losing key members of their team

and balanced business with family life.

We usually arrive about ten o'clock and we'll have a nice full day here, which is great.

We'll leave about five o'clock

and then, Tuesday, you'll stay at home all day, won't you?

Yeah, really nice to spend that time at home, just me and baby.

Wednesdays, Hayley's at home with Molly and George,

then, Thursday and Friday, it's the same as Monday - nursery day.

Crikey, you've seem to have achieved the perfect...

absolute idyllic work/life balance.

Did you ever consider, Hayley, that you should stop work totally

and just stay at home and look after the children?

Because three children is a tall order.

Yeah. You know, the thought never actually entered my mind,

"Shall I stop working?"

I've always wanted my own business so I've had this ideal,

which was there and that's what I was aiming towards.

Scott and Hayley's flexible approach to work may be family-friendly,

but Hilary wants to know how they've coped with multiple periods of maternity leave.

What would you say has been the cost to the business for the ladies

that have left for maternity leave?

I think the most difficult aspect is in the occasions

where they've not come back into the exact same working pattern.

We have had occasions where people wanted to spend more time

working from home rather than in the office.

When it's a senior, client-facing role,

and clients are expecting you to answer the phone when they ring up,

-it can be difficult.

-What was the solution?

The solution was we just told clients what was going on,

just being transparent,

with not only clients but also team-mates

and, if everybody knows what the score is, you all survive.

You didn't lose any clients by doing it?

Certainly we had a few difficult conversations but you get through.

Because certainly I would, if I had have been your client,

I would not have liked that at all.

I'd have thought, "I'll find myself another accountant."

No, a few clients didn't like it and they probably did have

the conversation with us, "I'm thinking of changing accountant,"

but we find ways of explaining to them

that they're better off with us.

For Scott and Hayley, balancing work with family

has led to some compromises,

including closing their second office.

Something had to give, really and it was just a natural time.

We knew that the situation

was only just going to get more difficult when George came along,

so we quickly took the decision to sell one of our offices

and we've now got a much smaller - but much tighter - team,

all enjoying the same kind of culture that we've always envisaged,

but we're growing at the rate that we want to grow again.

After meeting Scott and Hayley, Hilary thinks small companies

can also be flexible towards their working mums.

A business of their scale and size can achieve flexi working time

and they've achieved it well.

Obviously growth has been one of the sacrifices they've had to pay

because, you know, for a business that's seven years in,

there's not been any substantial growth.

Having said that,

they've actually catered for a very happy team of people.

They're obviously a profitable little business

and they've achieved a perfect work/life balance.

Spurred on by what she's seen,

it's time for Hilary to find solutions closer to home.

Hilary is looking for flexible options

to help working mothers at her own company.

As well as helping women,

Hilary hopes this will redress the company's gender balance.

Undoubtedly, what this journey has led me to believe

is that mixed gender in the workplace

is more profitable and more beneficial to the business.

So I've got to now put my thoughts into action

and prove that I mean them.

At middle-management level,

Pall-Ex has an equal ratio of men to women

but there's one key area that remains resolutely masculine -

the warehouse floor.

Hundreds of trucks use Hilary's hub every day,

loading and unloading pallets from across the land.

Key to the smooth running of the operation,

the fork-lift truck drivers.

It's a job where every second counts,

requiring skill and concentration

and Hilary wants women to play a bigger part.

She's called a meeting with key members of her operational team

to come up with a plan.

I do think mixed-gender teams work better

but I want to have a serious discussion

with how feasible it would be to have women fork-lift drivers,

or women management on the floor.

One of the issues we have here with women working in the warehouse

is not just the fact that it's a male-dominated environment.

I think you've also got the night-time issue as well,

especially women who've got children already,

are not going to want to be away from the child.

How do you think the blokes would react to it?

I don't think they'd react badly.

As long as the person can do the job

that's being tasked to them, I don't think they'd have an issue.

The one thing I think that women find difficult to return to work,

after having children, is that childcare is so expensive.

-The cost of childcare.

-Yeah, and they can't afford to return to work.

-I think a lot of them do want to return to work.

-Absolutely.

In whatever capacity, they want to work.

They don't always want to come back full time, do they?

That is a really interesting point,

but using the warehouse as an experiment

in part-time employment for women that have had children

that perhaps just want a few hours a day here, a bit of extra money there.

Let's try it, because we might find a happier working environment.

Certainly, I can see a job like that suiting a woman, having had a child,

who wants to return to work for a few hours a day.

Between the hours of 9:30 and 2:30,

there's an area there where the child's at school already.

-We'll set a workflow analysis.

-Yeah.

Yeah, let's do that.

And let's try it this year at our peak time.

And, before that,

we'll do some sort of a marketing recruitment campaign

to say we want to become more female-friendly.

-Definitely.

-Yeah.

The more I think about it, the better it'll be,

because it's a perfect job for a woman.

Combining work with family commitments

isn't the only challenge facing career women.

For many, a lack of confidence can also be a problem.

Heather Jackson from Yorkshire thinks she's found the solution.

She set up a support group, called Pearls,

that holds regular networking events across the UK.

There's three things that women get out of it -

confidence and self belief,

recognition of their capabilities and an understanding

of the development and importance of networks and contacts

to give them, ultimately,

control and choice in where they're wanting to go.

Companies like ASDA, RBS and Morrisons

have signed up to the Pearls programme.

Their rising stars can enrol in the scheme,

gaining access to networking events and an online forum.

It's important for me

because, in my everyday work, I'm not always comfortable...

..drawing attention to the fact

that, you know, I'm a mum and I'm rushing about.

You want to focus on just doing your job.

And that's fine, but sometimes it's important that you know

you're not on your own and you can share those experiences

and let your guard down a bit and just be yourself a bit more.

Let's be honest,

men have had an unbelievable network for generations now.

I haven't got a problem with the old boys' network.

What we need to do is join the old boys' network

with the new girls' network.

As an entrepreneur who's made it on her own,

Hilary is sceptical

about the need for women's support networks like Pearls.

I've been involved in a lot of these women's networking.

There's lots and lots and lots of them out there.

To be honest, I've always steered clear from them,

because life is tough in business

and I've just put my head down, forged ahead

and knocked every barrier out of my way and got where I am that way.

Hilary is meeting some of the Pearls

to hear how they benefit from support networks.

What the Pearls has done is really enabled me to network

outside of the banking sector

and make connections with women in different sectors

and really understand how we can help and support each other

in actually progressing with our own hurdles and barriers.

Every event that I've been to, we've had really inspirational speakers

that have made me think about me and have that little bit of time

to focus on Mel as a person,

Mel who wants a career,

not Mel as the mum and I've come away from them thinking

that I can do more.

But you have a number of networks that have been established

for at least 15 years.

There are lots of women's networks out there.

Many are set up by women, many are set up by businesses

and I think what we've got here is both.

People think women's networks are just full of women

are actually it's been interesting involving men in that as well.

-It's fabulous, do I need to join?

-Yeah.

THEY ALL LAUGH

From flexible hours to support networks,

Hilary's heard some of the solutions

aimed at helping women in the workplace,

but she's still investigating one radical idea

that's looming on the horizon -

boardroom quotas.

With the EU considering whether to impose quotas across Europe,

Hilary wants to know what impact they could have in Britain.

'The EU Commissioner of late has spoken quite vociferously'

about the possibility of imposing quota legislation,

both in the UK and throughout Europe.

So it is a threat that our country and companies

ought to be knowing more about.

To see how quotas might work in Britain,

Hilary's heading for the ultimate gentleman's club - Westminster.

The mother of Parliaments is still a male-dominated world.

Today, women account for one in five MPs

but, in the 1990s, it was less than one in ten.

Labour activist, Barbara Follett, set out to discover

why so few women standing for election

were getting into Parliament.

We'd looked at, "Why don't they come through?"

And they don't come through because the best seats have been reserved

by this unspoken coalition of males.

Generally, what happens is that Buggins, who is almost always male,

has fixed up the safe seat for himself

and the unsafe seat for the woman.

The Labour Party's answer was to adopt a quota system.

Local parties were forced to choose parliamentary candidates

from all-female shortlist.

The results were dramatic.

At the 1997 general election, over 100 Labour women entered Parliament.

The new MPs, including Barbara Follett, were dubbed Blair's Babes.

I didn't mind being called a babe, I was 52 - good to be called a babe!

But what I was very pleased to see were 101 Labour women in Parliament.

Quotas may have helped more women into Westminster,

but Hilary wants to know if such a system would work for business.

If we impose a quota situation,

how do we convince the commercial world

that we will still get the best person for the role?

I think if you look at places like the House of Commons,

where you've got many men who came through on the old system,

you'll realise that the old system

is just as flawed as any quota system

and a quota system actually tends to give you

more examination of the person who's coming through.

They haven't just slid in thanks to the old boys' network

and I think that if we want progress

we need to put in some positive action...

..and to say this is a short-term measure

to correct a long-term imbalance.

Hilary's meeting with Barbara Follett

has given her food for thought

but she's still worried how gender quotas will impact on companies.

'I think positive action that the Labour Party took

'to entice more females into politics was good.'

Unless that had happened.

they wouldn't necessarily have even bothered to apply.

However, I'm not so sure it will work in business

and I think to impose quota legislation on businesses,

whether it be the FTSE 350, the FTSE 500,

would have a significant impact on our economy

and not necessarily for the good.

Hilary's not the only woman who is sceptical about quotas.

Nicola Horlick is no ordinary fund manager, she's 35 years old,

is reckoned to earn a million pounds a year and has five children.

Former "Superwoman" Nicola Horlick

thinks they would be bad for women's careers.

'The problem with quotas, as we know,'

it is that if you have people being selected because they are a woman

then people can always say,

"Oh, she was only there because she was a woman," and that's awful.

And, you know, so I would much rather that we just,

everybody got together and said, "Right, we've got to have a real go

"at trying to increase female representation on boards,"

rather than forcing them to do it through a quota system.

Determined to seek an alternative to quotas,

Hilary is meeting someone who says he's found another way of getting more women into the boardroom.

I'm on my way to meet a very interesting gentleman,

Lord Davies, who was commissioned by the government

to do some actual research in promoting females into the boardroom,

breaking down the barriers.

So, I'm quite interested

to hear what he's got to say about quota legislation

and about what his experiences have been.

The boardrooms of Britain's biggest companies

represent the pinnacle of UK PLC but it's still a man's world.

Women make up only a small proportion of their boards.

Lord Davies was asked by the government

to find a way of breaking up the old boys' network.

So, Mervyn, you must have been one of the most unpopular men in business

when you began working on the Davies Report?

I was. The reaction of some of the chairman to me

when I launched the steering group was,

one or two of them were pretty hostile.

I would have argued that this was a male club

and the fact that 92% of the FTSE 350 appointments were male,

that is just not equality, it's not meritocracy,

it's not the right system.

We needed to smash - that is the right word -

what is an all-male society.

Despite the tough language, Davies's solution stopped short of quotas.

He thinks the answer is targets for women on boards.

So what we've done is we've set out a target of 25% of the board by 2015

and then what we've said to companies is publish,

you know, how many women employees you've got

and then how many are getting to the top,

to the executive committee and the board.

Why 25%, when France are going for 40%, Norway is 40%?

I think 40 in a lot of countries is a quota.

Women do not want quotas.

I think the best way to do this is to self-regulate, get it fixed.

If they don't fix it in the next couple of years, bring in quotas,

because it means we've failed.

I think we will succeed.

Having met Lord Davies, Hilary believes targets rather than quotas

are the best way of getting more women onto boards.

I think that Lord Davies's approach is absolutely right for the UK.

He's allowing time for adjustment.

Let the businesses do this themselves,

allow them the time to culturally believe in it.

It's important that these board members themselves

believe that a mixed-gender board will be for the benefit,

not just of society, but also for businesses in the future.

Since the publication of the Davies report,

one in four companies in the FTSE 100 have reached his 25% target

for women on their boards.

To keep the pressure on, Lord Davies has asked Amanda Mackenzie

to keep an eye on progress.

In her day job she's chief marketing officer of insurance giant Aviva.

She thinks getting more women into the boardroom

would provide vital role models.

If you have more women on your board,

they're going to look for more women through the company.

'The more you see more women on a board,

'the more it's attractive as a potential place to go and work.'

As a woman you go, "They're role modelling, I get that,

"that's a good place to want to join."

Amanda is fast becoming a role model herself -

last year she was appointed to the board of Mothercare.

As a non-executive director,

she's one of five people from outside the company

who help oversee the big decisions.

So this is the Mothercare boardroom

and when we meet in Watford, this is where we meet.

It's a relatively small board, there's seven directors,

two are executive directors and five non-exec directors.

The chairman would probably sit in the middle.

With sales of more than £800 million a year

a seat on the Mothercare board

brings with it a heavy responsibility.

In this past year,

we've collectively appointed a new chairman,

so that's a very key role

and incredibly important in the next phase of Mothercare.

The decisions that we tend to make are around strategy of the business

and then the governance of the business and how it's being run

rather than deciding what the web page looks like

or what a new advert should be about.

As the only woman on the board,

Amanda brings a different perspective to the top table.

I think it's very significant that I'm the woman and that I am a mother

but, at the end of the day, I have shopped in Mothercare

when I was pregnant or, you know, with young children

and I know what that feels like.

But I also think it's also the collective

of the experiences you have through your life,

sort of, mixed in with what you're born with, if you like,

that then means you can come at things

from quite a different perspective.

Helena Morrissey is another role model

who's breaking down the door of the boardroom.

Not content with running an investment fund worth around £50 billion,

she's the mother of nine children.

'Inevitably, since I have a lot of children, I have very early start.

'So, normally, I get up about five o'clock

'and wake the children around 6.30.'

So, in between, I try to orchestrate, you know,

we have this infamous whiteboard

where we put everybody's plans for the day on it

and check that someone's going to collect everybody.

In her spare time, Helena has set up an organisation

challenging companies to aim for 30% female representation on the boards.

Welcome, everybody, and thank you for coming.

This meeting, obviously, is a bit unusual -

we're going to be just focusing on the EU submission...

'The whole 30% Club idea was set up because of the belief,

'very strong belief, that having better gender balance in boardroom'

is better the business and better for everybody.

Better for the economy, better for shareholders,

as well as better the women in terms of creating more opportunities.

Companies like Sainsbury's and M&S

have been persuaded by Helena's voluntary target

but there's steel behind her soft approach.

She's exerting pressure on businesses through their shareholders.

I think that's a good point. If we started with,

"Over the past 18 months, since the launch of the 30% Club,

"followed by the publication of Lord Davies review..."

'Ultimately, if investors, on any issue, not just this one,

'don't like what they see,

'then they can vote against the election of the chairman'

or individual members of the board -

and chairmen come up for election annually.

So this is something that, in theory, investors,

if we group together, could make an impact in a very pointed way.

The pressure on companies seems to be paying off.

Over the last year, the number of women entering the boardroom

has risen sharply.

Hilary thinks the voluntary approach is the right solution

to helping women reach the top.

I'm delighted to be able to say that, in the FTSE 100,

a quarter of the appointments in the last 12 months have gone to females.

So I think that demonstrates very admirably

that the Lord Davies approach

of voluntary bringing women onto the board

does work far better than a quota legislation.

With big businesses under pressure to appoint more women at the top,

the race is on to find new female talent.

Today, around 50 women are gathering at an event in the City of London.

The aim of the organisers is to connect senior company chairman

with aspiring board-ready women.

Something extraordinary we think has happened in the last two months.

48% of new appointments to FTSE 100 boards were women -

that's nearly half.

'I believe very strongly that the contribution'

that women can make to boards is extremely important

and everything that big business can do

to get more able women onto boards

will help prosperity and that'll help everybody in the country.

The women behind today's event believe there are

plenty of experienced women waiting in the wings.

'There is absolutely no problem with supply,'

I think the problem is with a visible talent pool of women

and that's where we come in.

We see our role as identifying women

who could be great directors in the future and making them visible,

making sure that chairman and head-hunters,

and others who influence board appointments

know where they are and can connect to them.

The focus of the afternoon is a simulated board meeting.

It's not just a chance to see

how experienced chairman handle big decisions, it's also an audition.

'Women are not particularly good at self-promotion

'and I think that's why we have the simulated board meeting.'

It is designed to give women the chance to excel

and we avoid putting them in a chit-chatty, self-promotional role

because they're not very good at it.

We give a woman a task and she will excel.

One women at the event has recently accepted her first boardroom job.

For those with the right experience,

there are more opportunities than ever

for women who want to get to the top.

I literally started only a few months ago, looking,

and was quite surprised at how quickly it happened, actually.

So, I think it's, my advice would be to aspiring women NEDs

just go for it because it's probably not quite so complicated

as, perhaps, people think it is.

You just have to make the decision

and then to be clear about what kind of NED-ship you want

and then, obviously, approach the head-hunters,

and make it, make yourself known.

Britain's boardrooms may be more female focused

but Hilary is still looking for solutions

that will help other working women.

'The boardroom is not the be-all and end-all of business.'

A lot of decisions are made from junior management level,

middle management level.

What I'd like to see is less talk about women in the boardroom

and more talk, and more action, about women in business per se.

Hilary's hit on a plan to help women at her own company.

She wants to offer flexible hours in the Pall-Ex warehouse,

helping mothers who want to return to work.

'BBC Radio Leicester.'

This is BBC Radio Leicester, good afternoon.

Sally Pepper with you through till three o'clock this afternoon.

Hello.

By recruiting female fork-lift drivers,

Hilary also hopes to kick-start a more equal gender balance

throughout her organisation.

To encourage women to come forward,

Hilary's decided to go on a publicity drive.

Now, Leicestershire entrepreneur Hilary Devey

has been investigating the business case for women

and discovered that gender-diverse teams perform better.

At Hilary's company, Pall-Ex, her physical shop floor is 98% male.

Hilary has now decided to recruit more women into these roles

but this begs the question, would a woman want to do this kind of job?

-Good afternoon, Hilary.

-Good afternoon, Sally.

You're wanting to recruit

to get women to be doing these fork-lift truck driving positions?

Yeah, I definitely do and I have done my own investigations

with my own business along this journey,

and I have found, most positively, that gender diversity

is definitely more productive and more profitable.

It's very easy for a woman to drive a fork truck

as it is for a woman to drive a car

and what I'm trying to do is do flexi hours

so that they can come in for two or three hours a day

and then they can gain the work/life balance,

work around collecting the children from school,

so we end up with a more equal gender split.

To be honest, Hilary,

I'd love to drive a fork-lift truck but do you think...?

It's very easy, I've done it myself!

-We could have races and everything, couldn't we?

-Absolutely! It's good fun.

-Do you think many women would want to have that as a job?

-Yeah, I do.

I mean, I can empathise with any woman

who wants to be there for her child

when he or she returns home from school

so if I can offer some flexible working hours locally,

in Leicestershire, then, you know, I'm happy to do so

and I really, really want to encourage ladies to come forward for this.

Hilary Devey there, talking about why there are so few women

in the top British business roles.

Well, I hope it was loud enough and I hope enough females heard it.

This is not just about transforming the business at the shop floor,

this is about filtration upwards into other areas of the business

and hopefully retain that skill set within the business.

With her recruitment drive in motion,

Hilary is determined to see a better gender mix at all levels of Pall-Ex.

She thinks other companies can do more to help those women

who want to pursue a career.

'What I would say to any business in this country today

'is try to retain your female talent,'

try to recruit female talent

and try to promote female talent.

We cannot afford, as an economy and as a country,

to let this female talent go.

Hilary made it to the top on her own,

now she thinks it's time to reach out to the women

who have yet to reach the summit.

Part of me says that if it's in you you'll do it.

I believe that ambition transcends education, gender, culture, etc.

But if we can give females a helping hand along the way, then we should.

I would say to every woman out there,

-"You

-have

-got what it takes to get the top.

"You may have a few sleepless nights

"and you may shed a few tears along the way,

"and you may shed them in sheer and utter frustration

-"but shrug it off and keep climbing because you

-can

-get there."

What are your chances of reaching the top of the career ladder?

How does your profile compare with a range of boardroom hopefuls?

To find out go to...

..and follow the links to the Open University.

Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd