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This film contains some strong language | 0:00:02 | 0:00:04 | |
MUSIC: "Sugar Man" by Rodriguez | 0:00:04 | 0:00:06 | |
# Sugar Man, won't you hurry? | 0:00:08 | 0:00:12 | |
# Cos I'm tired of these scenes | 0:00:13 | 0:00:17 | |
# For a blue coin won't you bring back | 0:00:18 | 0:00:22 | |
# All those colours to my dreams? | 0:00:23 | 0:00:27 | |
# Silver magic ships, you carry | 0:00:29 | 0:00:34 | |
# Jumpers, coke, sweet Mary Jane | 0:00:34 | 0:00:38 | |
# Sugar Man... # | 0:00:41 | 0:00:43 | |
I got my nickname from this song. | 0:00:43 | 0:00:46 | |
When I was in the Army they used to mispronounce Segerman as Sugar Man. | 0:00:46 | 0:00:50 | |
And then they just started calling me Sugar | 0:00:50 | 0:00:52 | |
and that became my nickname. | 0:00:52 | 0:00:53 | |
It's 40 years | 0:00:54 | 0:00:56 | |
since this LP called Cold Fact by Rodriguez was released. | 0:00:56 | 0:01:00 | |
And in South Africa it was a very popular album. | 0:01:00 | 0:01:03 | |
It was one of the biggest albums of the day. | 0:01:03 | 0:01:06 | |
But the thing was, we didn't know who this guy was. | 0:01:06 | 0:01:09 | |
All our other rock stars, we had all the information we needed. | 0:01:09 | 0:01:12 | |
But this guy? There was nothing. | 0:01:12 | 0:01:14 | |
And then we found out that he had committed suicide. | 0:01:14 | 0:01:17 | |
He set himself alight on stage | 0:01:17 | 0:01:20 | |
and burnt to death in front of the audience. | 0:01:20 | 0:01:23 | |
It was the most incredible thing. It wasn't just a suicide. | 0:01:23 | 0:01:26 | |
It was probably the most grotesque suicide in rock history. | 0:01:26 | 0:01:29 | |
THUNDER CRASHES | 0:03:09 | 0:03:12 | |
The first time that I remember actually recognising him | 0:03:36 | 0:03:41 | |
is Mike Theodore called me on the phone one day and said, | 0:03:41 | 0:03:43 | |
"I have this artist I want you to come see with me. | 0:03:43 | 0:03:46 | |
"This guy's name is Rodriguez, | 0:03:46 | 0:03:48 | |
"he's working down by the Detroit River. | 0:03:48 | 0:03:50 | |
"There's a bar down there, | 0:03:50 | 0:03:52 | |
"down by the wharf riverside district. | 0:03:52 | 0:03:54 | |
"Let's go see him tonight. I think you'll really like him." | 0:03:54 | 0:03:57 | |
So that night, I remember, we pull up... | 0:03:57 | 0:04:01 | |
away in this kinda isolated part of Detroit | 0:04:01 | 0:04:04 | |
right on the side of the Detroit River, | 0:04:04 | 0:04:07 | |
and you could see the mist in the air | 0:04:07 | 0:04:08 | |
coming off the river. We could feel it. | 0:04:08 | 0:04:10 | |
And we went inside there and, as we walked in the door, | 0:04:10 | 0:04:14 | |
we could hear behind us the sound of the freighters | 0:04:14 | 0:04:17 | |
as they're going down the river, | 0:04:17 | 0:04:18 | |
and so it's like you're walking out of a Sherlock Holmes novel. | 0:04:18 | 0:04:22 | |
You walk out of the mist and you go into this place, | 0:04:22 | 0:04:25 | |
and inside the place it's all full of smoke, | 0:04:25 | 0:04:27 | |
so there's a mist inside there. | 0:04:27 | 0:04:29 | |
Boom, hey, you know, it's a wall of smoke. | 0:04:29 | 0:04:32 | |
Beer all over the place. Peanut shells. It was just a mess. | 0:04:33 | 0:04:37 | |
And then you hear this strumming sound. | 0:04:37 | 0:04:41 | |
Strumming and batting the guitar. | 0:04:41 | 0:04:43 | |
HE MIMICS GUITAR | 0:04:43 | 0:04:45 | |
And then you hear this voice. | 0:04:46 | 0:04:49 | |
Strange voice. | 0:04:49 | 0:04:50 | |
Finally, we walked through the smoke and I looked | 0:04:50 | 0:04:52 | |
and there in the far corner I saw... | 0:04:52 | 0:04:55 | |
I could see the shadow of a man and I couldn't see his face. | 0:04:55 | 0:04:58 | |
I said, "What's the deal?" So we got a little closer. | 0:04:58 | 0:05:01 | |
And you see this guy with his back to you. | 0:05:03 | 0:05:07 | |
So all you see is his back and he's in a corner, singing. | 0:05:07 | 0:05:12 | |
It was an ethereal scene, if you will. | 0:05:12 | 0:05:16 | |
Foggy night, foghorns, smoke so thick you couldn't see through it. | 0:05:16 | 0:05:21 | |
And here's this voice. | 0:05:21 | 0:05:24 | |
Maybe it forced you to listen to the lyrics | 0:05:24 | 0:05:26 | |
cos you couldn't see the guy's face. | 0:05:26 | 0:05:28 | |
That's when we talked to him | 0:05:28 | 0:05:29 | |
and figured we needed to do an album on him. | 0:05:29 | 0:05:31 | |
The only writer that I had heard of, of that time period, | 0:05:31 | 0:05:35 | |
was maybe Bob Dylan, that was writing that well. | 0:05:35 | 0:05:39 | |
MUSIC: "Crucify Your Mind" by Rodriguez | 0:05:41 | 0:05:43 | |
# Was it a huntsman or a player | 0:06:01 | 0:06:04 | |
# That made you pay the cost | 0:06:04 | 0:06:06 | |
# That now assumes relaxed positions | 0:06:06 | 0:06:09 | |
# And prostitutes your loss? | 0:06:09 | 0:06:12 | |
# Were you tortured by your own thirst | 0:06:12 | 0:06:15 | |
# In those pleasures that you seek | 0:06:15 | 0:06:17 | |
# That made you Tom the Curious | 0:06:17 | 0:06:20 | |
# That makes you James the Weak? | 0:06:20 | 0:06:23 | |
# And you claim you got something going | 0:06:32 | 0:06:37 | |
# Something you call unique | 0:06:39 | 0:06:42 | |
# But I've seen your self-pity showing | 0:06:45 | 0:06:48 | |
# As the tears roll down your cheeks. # | 0:06:50 | 0:06:53 | |
He was this wandering spirit around the city. | 0:06:55 | 0:06:59 | |
And, uh, sometimes I might catch him in the corner. | 0:06:59 | 0:07:02 | |
You know, Detroit's got its share of, uh, burned-out, desolate areas | 0:07:02 | 0:07:06 | |
and I would occasionally see him, um, | 0:07:06 | 0:07:10 | |
far away from The Brewery, and I wondered... | 0:07:10 | 0:07:12 | |
and it just added to this mythology of him. | 0:07:12 | 0:07:15 | |
Like, what is he doing? What is he doing? What does he do? | 0:07:15 | 0:07:19 | |
I heard he did a little roofing, some construction work. | 0:07:19 | 0:07:23 | |
Um, I think that's how he got his money at the time. | 0:07:23 | 0:07:26 | |
He just was, you know... And I say this with love, | 0:07:26 | 0:07:29 | |
I say this with respect, but, | 0:07:29 | 0:07:31 | |
I thought he was just a... | 0:07:31 | 0:07:34 | |
just not much more than a kind of a homeless person, you know? | 0:07:34 | 0:07:38 | |
He just was a drifter. He was just... Um... | 0:07:38 | 0:07:41 | |
I didn't know if he HAD a home, you know? | 0:07:42 | 0:07:44 | |
He'd look like maybe he'd go from shelter to shelter or something. | 0:07:44 | 0:07:48 | |
Detroit in the '70s was a hard place. | 0:07:54 | 0:07:56 | |
Well, it's still a hard place. | 0:07:56 | 0:07:58 | |
Lot of decay, lots of ruined houses. Real poverty exists in this city. | 0:07:58 | 0:08:03 | |
And those streets were Rodriguez's natural habitat. | 0:08:03 | 0:08:06 | |
Any time we met him to talk about what we were doing, | 0:08:06 | 0:08:09 | |
he would always meet us on a corner somewhere in his neighbourhood. | 0:08:09 | 0:08:13 | |
Most of the time he wasn't coming to my house. | 0:08:13 | 0:08:15 | |
He'd say, "Meet me on the corner of this street and that street," | 0:08:15 | 0:08:18 | |
and we would be there. | 0:08:18 | 0:08:20 | |
Uh, Mike and I would get out of our cars and park our cars, | 0:08:20 | 0:08:23 | |
so we'd be standing on the corner, | 0:08:23 | 0:08:24 | |
and we'd look round and he'd be there all of a sudden. | 0:08:24 | 0:08:26 | |
He'd just show up. | 0:08:26 | 0:08:27 | |
We thought he was like the inner city poet. | 0:08:27 | 0:08:30 | |
You know? Putting his poems to music of what he saw. | 0:08:30 | 0:08:34 | |
And it was definitely a very gritty look | 0:08:34 | 0:08:37 | |
at what he saw on the streets of Detroit. | 0:08:37 | 0:08:39 | |
What he saw in his neighbourhood. | 0:08:39 | 0:08:41 | |
Who was walking around the streets. | 0:08:41 | 0:08:43 | |
And the way he presented it in a song, | 0:08:43 | 0:08:45 | |
I thought was very, very interesting. | 0:08:45 | 0:08:48 | |
We were working at Tera-Shirma recording studio. | 0:08:48 | 0:08:51 | |
When he opened up and sang, you went, "Whoa, this guy's got it." | 0:08:51 | 0:08:56 | |
Rodriguez, at that time, had all the machinery in place. | 0:08:56 | 0:09:01 | |
Big names, big money behind it. Circumstances were right. | 0:09:02 | 0:09:06 | |
Why didn't it make it? | 0:09:06 | 0:09:07 | |
That's the big question that today still haunts me. | 0:09:07 | 0:09:10 | |
Did he get enough promotion? Did he do enough performances? | 0:09:10 | 0:09:15 | |
Was he too political? | 0:09:15 | 0:09:16 | |
Was there this or was there that? | 0:09:18 | 0:09:20 | |
Should it have been green instead of orange? | 0:09:20 | 0:09:22 | |
Should it have been a violin instead of an oboe? | 0:09:22 | 0:09:25 | |
On and on you can go. | 0:09:25 | 0:09:28 | |
But the end of the day is, if you listen to the stuff now, you'd say, | 0:09:28 | 0:09:31 | |
"I don't understand it, he's right-on." | 0:09:31 | 0:09:34 | |
I only heard him play once, | 0:09:37 | 0:09:38 | |
and one of the songs that he had on his album, it was called... | 0:09:38 | 0:09:43 | |
..The Sugar Man? Was it Sugar Man? | 0:09:44 | 0:09:46 | |
Is that the name of the song? | 0:09:46 | 0:09:47 | |
Um, I knew that guy, the Sugar Man. | 0:09:47 | 0:09:50 | |
And his name was Volkswagen Cha... Volkswagen Frank! | 0:09:50 | 0:09:54 | |
And he lived right around the corner | 0:09:54 | 0:09:55 | |
and you used to go over to Volkswagen Frank's. | 0:09:55 | 0:09:57 | |
You'd go in and get a little "sugar," if you know what I mean. | 0:09:57 | 0:10:00 | |
# Sugar Man, won't you hurry? | 0:10:00 | 0:10:06 | |
# Cos I'm tired of these scenes | 0:10:06 | 0:10:10 | |
# For a blue coin won't you bring back | 0:10:10 | 0:10:15 | |
# All those colours to my dreams? | 0:10:16 | 0:10:20 | |
# Silver magic ships, you carry | 0:10:21 | 0:10:26 | |
# Jumpers, coke, sweet Mary Jane | 0:10:26 | 0:10:31 | |
# Sugar Man | 0:10:33 | 0:10:36 | |
# Met a false friend | 0:10:36 | 0:10:39 | |
# On a lonely, dusty road | 0:10:39 | 0:10:43 | |
# Lost my heart... # | 0:10:43 | 0:10:45 | |
I got some photos here that I'd like to show you | 0:10:46 | 0:10:49 | |
that I've kept since my days in England with Rodriguez. | 0:10:49 | 0:10:55 | |
Let me see. | 0:10:55 | 0:10:56 | |
Possibly it's in this book, I don't know where. | 0:10:56 | 0:11:00 | |
These are all my photos from when I was acting. | 0:11:01 | 0:11:04 | |
That's me, and that's Jimmy Dean. That was in 1955. | 0:11:04 | 0:11:08 | |
Hang on, I think I've found them. Think they're in here. | 0:11:08 | 0:11:12 | |
Yeah, here they are. | 0:11:14 | 0:11:16 | |
Wow. Good Lord, here they are. | 0:11:17 | 0:11:20 | |
You know, I haven't seen these pictures in almost 35 years. | 0:11:20 | 0:11:24 | |
He's my most memorable artist. | 0:11:27 | 0:11:30 | |
You know, I've produced a lot of great ones, but... | 0:11:30 | 0:11:33 | |
..he's my most memorable. | 0:11:35 | 0:11:37 | |
It's not just a talent. | 0:11:37 | 0:11:39 | |
He's like... | 0:11:41 | 0:11:42 | |
He's like a wise man, a prophet. | 0:11:42 | 0:11:45 | |
He's way beyond just being a musical artist. | 0:11:45 | 0:11:50 | |
And he probably could have done fantastically well | 0:11:50 | 0:11:52 | |
if he had have continued. | 0:11:52 | 0:11:54 | |
When I met him, they said, "Rodriguez, this is Steve Rowland. | 0:11:54 | 0:11:57 | |
"He really likes your album". And Rodriguez said to me, | 0:11:57 | 0:12:00 | |
"Well, did you like Cold Facts?" | 0:12:00 | 0:12:03 | |
I said, "Man, I thought it was absolutely brilliant. | 0:12:03 | 0:12:06 | |
"Absolutely brilliant. | 0:12:06 | 0:12:07 | |
"I can't believe that this album didn't do anything. | 0:12:07 | 0:12:11 | |
"It's just a fantastic album". | 0:12:11 | 0:12:14 | |
So he played me what his next album was on... | 0:12:14 | 0:12:17 | |
In those days you had cassettes. | 0:12:17 | 0:12:19 | |
He had demos of this next album | 0:12:19 | 0:12:21 | |
that he was going to call Coming From Reality. | 0:12:21 | 0:12:24 | |
And I said, "Wow, man, this has got to be a smash. | 0:12:24 | 0:12:29 | |
"These are great songs. | 0:12:29 | 0:12:30 | |
"Little bit...little bit different from the others," I said. | 0:12:30 | 0:12:34 | |
"But great songs". | 0:12:34 | 0:12:36 | |
I said, "And a couple of them were so sad". You know. | 0:12:36 | 0:12:39 | |
There's one in there that's absolutely a killer. | 0:12:39 | 0:12:42 | |
It's one of the saddest songs that... | 0:12:42 | 0:12:44 | |
I'm laughing, but it's one of the saddest songs | 0:12:44 | 0:12:48 | |
that I've ever heard. | 0:12:48 | 0:12:49 | |
And it's a very simple song. | 0:12:49 | 0:12:50 | |
Hang on, I want to play this. Hang on. | 0:12:50 | 0:12:52 | |
OK, listen to these words. | 0:12:52 | 0:12:55 | |
MUSIC: "Cos" by Rodriguez | 0:12:55 | 0:12:56 | |
# Cos I lost my job | 0:13:07 | 0:13:09 | |
# Two weeks before Christmas... # | 0:13:12 | 0:13:15 | |
Oh, man. | 0:13:15 | 0:13:17 | |
# And I talked to Jesus at The Sewer | 0:13:20 | 0:13:23 | |
# And the Pope said it was none of his goddamn business | 0:13:25 | 0:13:28 | |
# While the rain drank champagne | 0:13:33 | 0:13:36 | |
# My Estonian Archangel came and got me wasted | 0:13:38 | 0:13:41 | |
# Cos the sweetest kiss I ever got | 0:13:46 | 0:13:49 | |
# Is the one I've never tasted... # | 0:13:50 | 0:13:54 | |
And it really makes me sad, because... | 0:13:57 | 0:14:00 | |
that was the last song that we recorded. | 0:14:00 | 0:14:03 | |
And that was the last song that Rodriguez ever recorded. | 0:14:03 | 0:14:06 | |
And what makes it even sadder | 0:14:08 | 0:14:12 | |
was the album was released in November of 1971, | 0:14:12 | 0:14:16 | |
and we expected big things. And it did absolutely nothing. | 0:14:16 | 0:14:20 | |
And then, two weeks before Christmas... | 0:14:23 | 0:14:25 | |
..Sussex dropped him off the label. | 0:14:27 | 0:14:30 | |
And the very first line in the song, as if premonition, | 0:14:30 | 0:14:34 | |
was, "I lost my job two weeks before Christmas". | 0:14:34 | 0:14:38 | |
Oh, man. I just think about that. | 0:14:40 | 0:14:43 | |
This guy deserves recognition. | 0:14:44 | 0:14:48 | |
Nobody in America had even heard of him. | 0:14:48 | 0:14:52 | |
Nobody... | 0:14:53 | 0:14:55 | |
Nobody even was interested in listening to him. | 0:14:57 | 0:15:00 | |
How can that be? How can that be? Guy that writes like this. | 0:15:03 | 0:15:07 | |
I mean... | 0:15:08 | 0:15:09 | |
# Cos they told me everybody's got to pay their dues | 0:15:11 | 0:15:14 | |
# And I explained that I had overpaid them | 0:15:16 | 0:15:19 | |
# Cos the smell of her perfume | 0:15:24 | 0:15:26 | |
# Echoes in my head still. # | 0:15:29 | 0:15:33 | |
MUSIC: "Wonder" by Rodriguez | 0:16:01 | 0:16:03 | |
# I wonder how many times you've been had | 0:16:15 | 0:16:19 | |
# And I wonder how many plans have gone bad | 0:16:19 | 0:16:23 | |
# I wonder how many times you had sex | 0:16:23 | 0:16:27 | |
# And I wonder, do you know who'll be next? # | 0:16:27 | 0:16:32 | |
It's still a bit of a mystery how the first copy of Cold Fact | 0:16:33 | 0:16:35 | |
actually came to South Africa. But one of the stories I've heard | 0:16:35 | 0:16:38 | |
is that there was an American girl and she came to South Africa | 0:16:38 | 0:16:41 | |
to visit her boyfriend and brought a copy of the record with her. | 0:16:41 | 0:16:44 | |
And her and him and all their friends really liked it | 0:16:44 | 0:16:47 | |
and went out to try and buy it but you couldn't buy it. | 0:16:47 | 0:16:50 | |
So they started taping copies and passing copies along. | 0:16:50 | 0:16:52 | |
However it got here, however it germinated here, | 0:16:52 | 0:16:55 | |
once it got here, it spread very quickly. | 0:16:55 | 0:16:59 | |
# How much goin' have you got | 0:16:59 | 0:17:01 | |
# And I wonder about your friends that are not | 0:17:01 | 0:17:06 | |
# I wonder | 0:17:06 | 0:17:07 | |
# I wonder | 0:17:08 | 0:17:10 | |
# Wonder I do. # | 0:17:13 | 0:17:16 | |
I remember I was in high school | 0:17:16 | 0:17:20 | |
and we heard this song, "I wonder how many times you've had sex?" | 0:17:20 | 0:17:24 | |
And at that time South Africa was very conservative. | 0:17:24 | 0:17:26 | |
It was the height of apartheid, | 0:17:26 | 0:17:29 | |
and there wasn't television here. | 0:17:29 | 0:17:32 | |
That's how conservative it was, cos television was communist. | 0:17:32 | 0:17:35 | |
It was really... You wouldn't believe. | 0:17:35 | 0:17:38 | |
Everything was restricted, | 0:17:39 | 0:17:40 | |
everything was censored. Everything was... | 0:17:40 | 0:17:42 | |
And here's this guy singing this song. | 0:17:42 | 0:17:44 | |
"Who's that?" Said, "That's Rodriguez". | 0:17:44 | 0:17:47 | |
And he became something of a rebel sort of icon. | 0:17:47 | 0:17:51 | |
But the strange thing was that we all bought his records. | 0:17:51 | 0:17:54 | |
Everybody I knew had his records. I Wonder, | 0:17:54 | 0:17:57 | |
that was the big song that everybody was singing | 0:17:57 | 0:17:59 | |
and we all bought the record. | 0:17:59 | 0:18:01 | |
And there he was on the cover, sort of a hippy with shades. | 0:18:01 | 0:18:04 | |
But nobody knew anything about him. He was a mystery. | 0:18:04 | 0:18:07 | |
Unlike other artists that you could read about from America, | 0:18:07 | 0:18:11 | |
get to know something about them, there was zilch. | 0:18:11 | 0:18:14 | |
Nobody knew anything. | 0:18:14 | 0:18:16 | |
It was a mystery. We only had his picture on the cover of the record. | 0:18:16 | 0:18:20 | |
MUSIC: "Jane S Piddy" by Rodriguez | 0:18:20 | 0:18:22 | |
# Now you sit there thinking | 0:18:22 | 0:18:23 | |
# Feeling insecure | 0:18:23 | 0:18:26 | |
# The mocking court jester | 0:18:26 | 0:18:28 | |
# Claims there is no proven cure | 0:18:28 | 0:18:31 | |
# Go back to your chamber | 0:18:31 | 0:18:34 | |
# Your eyes upon the wall | 0:18:34 | 0:18:36 | |
# Cos you got no-one to listen | 0:18:36 | 0:18:39 | |
# You got no-one to call | 0:18:39 | 0:18:42 | |
# And you think I'm curious. # | 0:18:44 | 0:18:46 | |
The album was exceptionally popular. To many of us South Africans, | 0:18:46 | 0:18:49 | |
he was the soundtrack to our lives. | 0:18:49 | 0:18:51 | |
In the mid-70s, if you walked into a random | 0:18:51 | 0:18:53 | |
white, liberal, middle-class household | 0:18:53 | 0:18:55 | |
that had a turntable and a pile of pop records | 0:18:55 | 0:18:58 | |
and if you flipped through the records you would always see | 0:18:58 | 0:19:00 | |
Abbey Road by The Beatles. | 0:19:00 | 0:19:02 | |
You would always see Bridge Over Troubled Water | 0:19:02 | 0:19:04 | |
by Simon and Garfunkel. | 0:19:04 | 0:19:06 | |
And you would always see Cold Fact by Rodriguez. | 0:19:06 | 0:19:08 | |
To us, it was one of the most famous records of all time. | 0:19:08 | 0:19:12 | |
The message it had was: "Be anti-establishment". | 0:19:12 | 0:19:15 | |
One song's called Anti-Establishment Blues. | 0:19:15 | 0:19:17 | |
We didn't know what the word "anti-establishment" was | 0:19:17 | 0:19:19 | |
until it cropped up on a Rodriguez song and then we found out | 0:19:19 | 0:19:22 | |
it's OK to protest against your society, | 0:19:22 | 0:19:25 | |
to be angry with your society. | 0:19:25 | 0:19:28 | |
Because we lived in a society | 0:19:28 | 0:19:31 | |
where every means was used to prevent apartheid from, | 0:19:31 | 0:19:35 | |
you know, coming to an end... | 0:19:35 | 0:19:37 | |
..this album somehow had in it... | 0:19:38 | 0:19:41 | |
lyrics that almost set us free as oppressed peoples. | 0:19:41 | 0:19:47 | |
Any revolution needs an anthem | 0:19:49 | 0:19:51 | |
and, in South Africa, Cold Fact was the album | 0:19:51 | 0:19:53 | |
that gave people permission | 0:19:53 | 0:19:56 | |
to free their minds and to start thinking differently. | 0:19:56 | 0:19:59 | |
MUSIC: "The Establishment Blues" by Rodriguez | 0:19:59 | 0:20:01 | |
# The mayor hides the crime rate Council woman hesitates | 0:20:01 | 0:20:05 | |
# Public gets irate But forgets the vote date | 0:20:05 | 0:20:09 | |
# This system's going to fall soon To an angry young tune | 0:20:09 | 0:20:13 | |
# And that's a concrete cold fact... # | 0:20:13 | 0:20:16 | |
It may seem strange that South African record companies | 0:20:16 | 0:20:19 | |
didn't do more to try and track down Rodriguez, | 0:20:19 | 0:20:21 | |
but, actually, if you look back at the time | 0:20:21 | 0:20:23 | |
we were in the middle of apartheid, the height of apartheid. | 0:20:23 | 0:20:26 | |
South Africa was under sanctions | 0:20:26 | 0:20:27 | |
from countries from all over the world. | 0:20:27 | 0:20:29 | |
South African musicians were not allowed to play overseas. | 0:20:29 | 0:20:31 | |
No foreign acts were allowed to visit South Africa. | 0:20:31 | 0:20:34 | |
It was a closed-door situation | 0:20:34 | 0:20:36 | |
between South Africa and the rest of the world. | 0:20:36 | 0:20:38 | |
# Woke up this morning with an ache in my head | 0:20:38 | 0:20:42 | |
# I splashed on my clothes as I spilled out of bed | 0:20:42 | 0:20:46 | |
# I opened the window to listen to the news | 0:20:46 | 0:20:50 | |
# But all I heard was the establishment's blues... # | 0:20:50 | 0:20:54 | |
The countries around the world were saying horrible things | 0:20:54 | 0:20:57 | |
about the apartheid government | 0:20:57 | 0:20:58 | |
but we didn't know because they controlled the news. | 0:20:58 | 0:21:01 | |
The majority of the population had been marginalized | 0:21:01 | 0:21:04 | |
and forced out of commerce and areas. | 0:21:04 | 0:21:08 | |
It was what had happened in Nazi Germany. | 0:21:08 | 0:21:10 | |
It was a spin-off from Nazi Germany, | 0:21:10 | 0:21:12 | |
but if a newspaper published it, they'd get prosecuted. | 0:21:12 | 0:21:14 | |
So, because of that, | 0:21:14 | 0:21:15 | |
South Africa had achieved a pariah status in the world. | 0:21:15 | 0:21:18 | |
There were cultural boycotts. There were sporting boycotts. | 0:21:18 | 0:21:21 | |
It was a very isolated society. So we were cut off. | 0:21:21 | 0:21:24 | |
We all knew apartheid was wrong, but, living in South Africa, | 0:21:24 | 0:21:27 | |
there wasn't much, as a white person, you could do about it, | 0:21:27 | 0:21:30 | |
cos the government was very strict. | 0:21:30 | 0:21:32 | |
It was a military state, to a large degree. | 0:21:32 | 0:21:34 | |
If you spoke out against apartheid, | 0:21:34 | 0:21:35 | |
you could be thrown into prison for three years. | 0:21:35 | 0:21:38 | |
So although a lot of whites were part of the struggle, | 0:21:38 | 0:21:40 | |
the majority of whites were not. | 0:21:40 | 0:21:42 | |
You were watched. There were spies. It was scary and people were scared. | 0:21:42 | 0:21:46 | |
But out of the Afrikaans community emerged | 0:21:46 | 0:21:49 | |
a group of Afrikaans musicians, songwriters, | 0:21:49 | 0:21:52 | |
and, for them, when they heard Rodriguez, | 0:21:52 | 0:21:55 | |
it was like a voice spoke to them | 0:21:55 | 0:21:56 | |
and said, "Guys, there's a way out. There's a way out. | 0:21:56 | 0:22:00 | |
"You can write music. You can write imagery. | 0:22:00 | 0:22:03 | |
"You can sing, you can perform". | 0:22:03 | 0:22:05 | |
And that was where, really, the first opposition to apartheid | 0:22:05 | 0:22:08 | |
came from inside the Afrikaans community. | 0:22:08 | 0:22:11 | |
It was these young Afrikaans guys and, to a man, | 0:22:11 | 0:22:14 | |
they'll tell you they were influenced by Rodriguez. | 0:22:14 | 0:22:17 | |
Koos Kombuis. Willem Moller. | 0:22:17 | 0:22:19 | |
The late Johannes Kerkorrel. | 0:22:19 | 0:22:21 | |
The guys who were regarded | 0:22:21 | 0:22:23 | |
as the icons of the Afrikaans music revolution | 0:22:23 | 0:22:26 | |
will all tell you, "Rodriguez was our guy". | 0:22:26 | 0:22:29 | |
THEY SING | 0:22:29 | 0:22:30 | |
We call it the Voelvry movement | 0:22:32 | 0:22:34 | |
of Afrikaans artists singing against apartheid. | 0:22:34 | 0:22:37 | |
All of us listened to Rodriguez at some point. All of us. | 0:22:37 | 0:22:39 | |
It had an enormous impact. | 0:22:39 | 0:22:41 | |
It made you just think that there's another way. | 0:22:41 | 0:22:44 | |
What's presented to you by the establishment isn't all theirs. | 0:22:44 | 0:22:48 | |
-# Set if off, set if off -Set if off, set if off | 0:22:48 | 0:22:53 | |
-# Set if off, set it off -Set if off... # | 0:22:53 | 0:22:56 | |
The biggest hit was a song called Set It Off | 0:22:56 | 0:22:59 | |
which was when PW Botha was the president then. | 0:22:59 | 0:23:02 | |
The real bad guy. When he came on TV, he used to talk like that. | 0:23:02 | 0:23:06 | |
And this song said, "Switch it off, just switch off the TV." | 0:23:07 | 0:23:10 | |
So what lines do you think were the lines they had problem with? | 0:23:18 | 0:23:21 | |
Ah, gee whiz, it's all of them. | 0:23:21 | 0:23:23 | |
"Sugar Man, won't you hurry Cos I'm tired of these scenes | 0:23:23 | 0:23:26 | |
"For a blue coin, won't you bring back all those colours to my dreams?" | 0:23:26 | 0:23:30 | |
The most difficult ones is probably | 0:23:30 | 0:23:32 | |
"Silver magic ships, you carry Jumpers, coke, sweet Mary Jane". | 0:23:32 | 0:23:36 | |
And what is that? | 0:23:36 | 0:23:38 | |
Uh... | 0:23:38 | 0:23:40 | |
I'm going to leave that to you. | 0:23:40 | 0:23:41 | |
THEY CHUCKLE | 0:23:41 | 0:23:43 | |
-But it's drugs? -It's certainly drugs. | 0:23:43 | 0:23:45 | |
During the apartheid years, it was just impossible to play it. | 0:23:45 | 0:23:49 | |
And what happened if you did play it? | 0:23:49 | 0:23:51 | |
Well, you couldn't. I'd like to show you why. | 0:23:51 | 0:23:54 | |
Right, here we have the album, the vinyl. | 0:23:59 | 0:24:01 | |
At the back of the sleeve you'll see a sticker that says "Avoid". | 0:24:01 | 0:24:05 | |
But when you open the album and take it out from its sleeve... | 0:24:05 | 0:24:09 | |
you would see that they have scratched that particular song | 0:24:09 | 0:24:13 | |
with a sharp tool to make sure that it would not go out on air. | 0:24:13 | 0:24:16 | |
And that's the way that they banned the music which, in my mind, | 0:24:16 | 0:24:21 | |
was quite a brutal way of ensuring the song | 0:24:21 | 0:24:23 | |
would never be heard on the air. | 0:24:23 | 0:24:25 | |
Most of those tracks were on the banned list at SABC | 0:24:25 | 0:24:30 | |
and they ran the broadcast industry completely. | 0:24:30 | 0:24:33 | |
There weren't any independent radio stations or TV stations. | 0:24:33 | 0:24:36 | |
Obviously, when that word got out, | 0:24:36 | 0:24:38 | |
it just made the record more desirable. | 0:24:38 | 0:24:42 | |
You know, it's like having something banned. | 0:24:42 | 0:24:44 | |
You're 16, 17 years old and you've got something that's banned. | 0:24:44 | 0:24:47 | |
It was absolutely perfect. | 0:24:47 | 0:24:49 | |
MUSIC: "Can't Get Away" by Rodriguez | 0:24:49 | 0:24:52 | |
# Born in the troubled city | 0:25:09 | 0:25:11 | |
# In rock'n'roll, USA | 0:25:12 | 0:25:15 | |
# In the shadow of the tallest building | 0:25:15 | 0:25:19 | |
# I vowed I would break away | 0:25:19 | 0:25:22 | |
# Listened to the Sunday actors | 0:25:23 | 0:25:27 | |
# But all they would ever say | 0:25:27 | 0:25:29 | |
# That you can't get away from it | 0:25:29 | 0:25:33 | |
# No, you can't get away... # | 0:25:33 | 0:25:36 | |
Cold Fact was just one of the albums we had in our collections, | 0:25:36 | 0:25:39 | |
and for 10, 20 years, it was just a record we listened to and enjoyed. | 0:25:39 | 0:25:44 | |
But then a pivotal event happened that changed everything for me. | 0:25:44 | 0:25:47 | |
We were down in Camps Bay beach. | 0:25:47 | 0:25:49 | |
We were sitting around on the beach and a friend of mine, | 0:25:49 | 0:25:52 | |
a woman, who was from South Africa, | 0:25:52 | 0:25:54 | |
but she had got married and emigrated to Los Angeles, | 0:25:54 | 0:25:58 | |
she said to me, "Where can I buy Cold Fact in South Africa?" | 0:25:58 | 0:26:03 | |
And I turned round and I pointed to a store across the road | 0:26:03 | 0:26:06 | |
that sold CDs and I said, "You can buy it at that store". | 0:26:06 | 0:26:10 | |
She said, "Really? Because, you know, you can't buy it anywhere in America. | 0:26:10 | 0:26:13 | |
"I've asked everywhere in America, no-one's even heard of it". | 0:26:13 | 0:26:15 | |
And that was a pivotal moment, cos I didn't know that. | 0:26:15 | 0:26:18 | |
I thought everybody knew Rodriguez, | 0:26:18 | 0:26:20 | |
especially in America cos he was American. | 0:26:20 | 0:26:22 | |
So my next thought was, "Ah, Rodriguez, that's interesting". | 0:26:22 | 0:26:25 | |
I came back home and I took out my Rodriguez records | 0:26:25 | 0:26:27 | |
and that's when I realised there was nothing on the record | 0:26:27 | 0:26:30 | |
to tell us who he was or where he was from. | 0:26:30 | 0:26:32 | |
On Cold Fact, there are four names. | 0:26:32 | 0:26:34 | |
On the front cover it just says "Rodriguez". | 0:26:34 | 0:26:37 | |
But if we take the record out and examine the sleeve, | 0:26:37 | 0:26:40 | |
the artist's name is Sixto Rodriguez. | 0:26:40 | 0:26:42 | |
But if you look at the tracks, | 0:26:42 | 0:26:44 | |
six of these tracks | 0:26:44 | 0:26:46 | |
are credited to Jesus Rodriguez, | 0:26:46 | 0:26:48 | |
and four of these tracks are credited to Sixth Prince. | 0:26:48 | 0:26:52 | |
So who actually wrote these songs and who are all these people? | 0:26:52 | 0:26:55 | |
We didn't have any more information than a record | 0:26:55 | 0:26:58 | |
with him sitting on the cover with a hat and sunglasses on. | 0:26:58 | 0:27:01 | |
We didn't know how tall he was cos he was sitting cross-legged. | 0:27:01 | 0:27:04 | |
So how do you solve a mystery? | 0:27:04 | 0:27:06 | |
You use whatever information's available. | 0:27:06 | 0:27:08 | |
What did we have? A record cover with lyrics. | 0:27:08 | 0:27:10 | |
So we started looking quite deeply at the lyrics | 0:27:10 | 0:27:13 | |
and seeing what they said, | 0:27:13 | 0:27:14 | |
and some of them, very few of them, had geographical references. | 0:27:14 | 0:27:17 | |
The one, You Can't Get Away, starts off, | 0:27:17 | 0:27:20 | |
"Born in the troubled city In Rock and Roll, USA". | 0:27:20 | 0:27:24 | |
Born in which troubled city? | 0:27:24 | 0:27:25 | |
Seems all the cities were troubled in the late '60s. | 0:27:25 | 0:27:27 | |
"In the shadow of the tallest building". | 0:27:27 | 0:27:30 | |
The tallest building, as far as we knew, was in New York. | 0:27:30 | 0:27:32 | |
And at the bottom of the song this verse says, | 0:27:32 | 0:27:34 | |
"In a hotel room in Amsterdam". | 0:27:34 | 0:27:36 | |
Then it says, "Going down a dusty Georgian side road I wander". | 0:27:36 | 0:27:40 | |
Georgia? So we've had Amsterdam, | 0:27:40 | 0:27:42 | |
we've had Georgia, we've had the world's tallest building. | 0:27:42 | 0:27:45 | |
Not much to go on. | 0:27:45 | 0:27:47 | |
Well, what I heard, and the story differs a lot, | 0:27:55 | 0:27:57 | |
and a lot of people have different versions of the story, | 0:27:57 | 0:28:00 | |
but what I heard, he hadn't played a concert in a very long time. | 0:28:00 | 0:28:04 | |
And a promoter got him to play a concert, | 0:28:04 | 0:28:07 | |
and he was hoping this was going to be a great show. | 0:28:07 | 0:28:10 | |
Of course, the show didn't work out that way. It started out... | 0:28:10 | 0:28:13 | |
The sound wasn't good. The venue wasn't good. | 0:28:13 | 0:28:17 | |
A lot of the factors surrounding the show wasn't good. | 0:28:17 | 0:28:20 | |
And as the show went on and on, | 0:28:20 | 0:28:22 | |
it started going downhill from there. People started ridiculing him. | 0:28:22 | 0:28:26 | |
People started whistling or making mention of the fact that, | 0:28:26 | 0:28:31 | |
you know, the show wasn't going as planned. | 0:28:31 | 0:28:34 | |
And it got to a point where, just very quietly, very gently, | 0:28:34 | 0:28:37 | |
he just sang his last song. | 0:28:37 | 0:28:39 | |
"But thanks for your time Then you can thank me for mine | 0:28:39 | 0:28:41 | |
"And after that's said forget it". | 0:28:41 | 0:28:43 | |
And he reached down and pulled up a gun and pulled the trigger. | 0:28:43 | 0:28:48 | |
And that was the dramatic, very dramatic ending, | 0:28:48 | 0:28:51 | |
to what was actually a non-career. | 0:28:51 | 0:28:54 | |
In 1996, the South African record label | 0:29:23 | 0:29:27 | |
released Rodriguez's second album, Coming From Reality, | 0:29:27 | 0:29:31 | |
on CD for the first time in South Africa. | 0:29:31 | 0:29:34 | |
And because they thought I knew a lot about him, | 0:29:34 | 0:29:37 | |
they asked if I wanted to co-write the liner notes for the booklet, | 0:29:37 | 0:29:40 | |
which I did. | 0:29:40 | 0:29:41 | |
And I'll read some of it to you. They start off by saying, | 0:29:41 | 0:29:45 | |
"If ever there is an air of intrigue and mystery around a pop artist, | 0:29:45 | 0:29:48 | |
"it is around the artist known as Rodriguez. | 0:29:48 | 0:29:51 | |
"There's no air of intrigue and mystery around him | 0:29:51 | 0:29:53 | |
"anywhere else in the world because his two albums, | 0:29:53 | 0:29:56 | |
"Coming From Reality and Cold Fact, | 0:29:56 | 0:29:58 | |
"were monumental flops everywhere else". | 0:29:58 | 0:30:00 | |
And this is the important part. | 0:30:00 | 0:30:02 | |
"There were no concrete cold facts about the artist known as Rodriguez. | 0:30:02 | 0:30:06 | |
"Any musicologist detectives out there?" | 0:30:06 | 0:30:08 | |
And that, that's the line that changed everything. | 0:30:08 | 0:30:12 | |
I started searching for Rodriguez | 0:30:12 | 0:30:14 | |
when a few of us were sitting around in the Army | 0:30:14 | 0:30:16 | |
and somebody said, "How did Rodriguez die?" | 0:30:16 | 0:30:19 | |
And just coincidence, at the time I was looking | 0:30:19 | 0:30:21 | |
for subject matter to write an article. | 0:30:21 | 0:30:23 | |
I remember having, like, five points on a piece of paper. | 0:30:23 | 0:30:26 | |
And number four, or something, was "Find out how Rodriguez died". | 0:30:26 | 0:30:29 | |
I thought it would make a good story. | 0:30:29 | 0:30:31 | |
So that was in the back of my mind for many years | 0:30:31 | 0:30:34 | |
and then, many years later, I came across this, um, | 0:30:34 | 0:30:38 | |
re-release of Coming From Reality and inside, the liner notes said, | 0:30:38 | 0:30:43 | |
"There were no concrete cold facts about the artist known as Rodriguez. | 0:30:43 | 0:30:46 | |
"Any musicologist detectives out there?" Um, was the question, | 0:30:46 | 0:30:51 | |
and I think that to me, was like an invitation. | 0:30:51 | 0:30:53 | |
I thought, "Well, maybe it's me". | 0:30:53 | 0:30:55 | |
The first way I tried to find him was to just follow the money. | 0:30:57 | 0:31:01 | |
Normally, you follow the money. | 0:31:01 | 0:31:02 | |
That's how you get to the bottom of anything. | 0:31:02 | 0:31:04 | |
But where do dead men's money go? | 0:31:04 | 0:31:07 | |
I was astounded that no-one knew anything about him. | 0:31:07 | 0:31:09 | |
I guess it was reminiscent of how bad the music industry was. | 0:31:09 | 0:31:14 | |
They were renowned for ripping people off. | 0:31:14 | 0:31:15 | |
And it is one thing, if they'd said to me, "Oh, yeah, | 0:31:15 | 0:31:19 | |
"we send the money to X place or Y," or whatever, | 0:31:19 | 0:31:24 | |
but they just kept on being very vague. | 0:31:24 | 0:31:26 | |
And, in fact, when I put some pressure on somebody, | 0:31:26 | 0:31:28 | |
I did get an address, and I called and, | 0:31:28 | 0:31:30 | |
I can't remember if I spoke to someone or left a message, | 0:31:30 | 0:31:34 | |
but when I called the next day, the number had been changed. | 0:31:34 | 0:31:37 | |
And that to me was... | 0:31:37 | 0:31:38 | |
I mean, that's a gift for anyone who wants to be a detective, | 0:31:38 | 0:31:42 | |
is an obstacle, because an obstacle is an inspiration. | 0:31:42 | 0:31:46 | |
If you just find things easily, they're not inspiring, | 0:31:46 | 0:31:48 | |
and this was a great obstacle that somebody had changed their number. | 0:31:48 | 0:31:51 | |
I just smelt a dirty money story somewhere there. | 0:31:51 | 0:31:56 | |
So, if you compare to other artists, how big was it actually? | 0:31:56 | 0:31:59 | |
Every month it just sold. | 0:31:59 | 0:32:01 | |
And every party you went to and every place you went to, | 0:32:01 | 0:32:04 | |
you'd hear that album at least once. | 0:32:04 | 0:32:06 | |
I don't think I could even think of how many albums he's sold here | 0:32:06 | 0:32:11 | |
cos it's a long period of time. | 0:32:11 | 0:32:13 | |
What could be probable? | 0:32:13 | 0:32:15 | |
HE SIGHS | 0:32:17 | 0:32:19 | |
I'd have to guess maybe half a million copies | 0:32:19 | 0:32:22 | |
over that period of time. | 0:32:22 | 0:32:23 | |
It's a lot of records, especially for a small country. | 0:32:23 | 0:32:27 | |
Gold record, ten times over. | 0:32:27 | 0:32:29 | |
Rodriguez never got to know that he was big in South Africa. | 0:32:29 | 0:32:32 | |
How could that be? | 0:32:32 | 0:32:33 | |
Don't know. I mean, everything would have been... | 0:32:33 | 0:32:37 | |
I find that strange. | 0:32:37 | 0:32:38 | |
I have no idea. | 0:32:38 | 0:32:40 | |
But you must have sent royalties somewhere? | 0:32:40 | 0:32:42 | |
Of course we sent royalties. We sent royalties to A&M Records. | 0:32:42 | 0:32:45 | |
I remember the label. It was A&M Sussex. Whether they | 0:32:45 | 0:32:48 | |
had a partnership, whatever they had, I don't... You know. | 0:32:48 | 0:32:50 | |
So, my suggestion is, if you can find out whoever the person was | 0:32:50 | 0:32:55 | |
who owned Sussex Records, | 0:32:55 | 0:32:57 | |
then you will find out what happened to the money. | 0:32:57 | 0:33:00 | |
Because it's weird, isn't it? | 0:33:00 | 0:33:03 | |
It's very strange. Very strange. | 0:33:03 | 0:33:06 | |
How popular was the album? Was he as famous as, | 0:33:06 | 0:33:08 | |
you know, the Rolling Stones and the Doors? | 0:33:08 | 0:33:10 | |
Oh, it was much bigger than Rolling Stones. | 0:33:10 | 0:33:12 | |
Absolutely, at the time, yeah. | 0:33:12 | 0:33:13 | |
When you released the record, did you try to contact him? | 0:33:13 | 0:33:17 | |
No, not at all. You know? Because... Because, at the time, | 0:33:17 | 0:33:20 | |
the legend... The legend was... | 0:33:20 | 0:33:23 | |
here was an artist. This was like Jimi Hendrix. | 0:33:23 | 0:33:26 | |
With Jimi Hendrix catalogues, you've got to understand, | 0:33:26 | 0:33:29 | |
if you just got Jimi Hendrix | 0:33:29 | 0:33:31 | |
and you'd got the licence for this territory, | 0:33:31 | 0:33:34 | |
you're obviously not going to go | 0:33:34 | 0:33:35 | |
try get hold of Jimi Hendrix, because he's dead. | 0:33:35 | 0:33:37 | |
-But who did you pay royalties to? -To Sussex Music. | 0:33:37 | 0:33:40 | |
To Clarence? | 0:33:40 | 0:33:42 | |
Yes. Well, to Sussex Music which is his company, yeah. | 0:33:42 | 0:33:45 | |
So, I decided to make a diagram. | 0:33:45 | 0:33:47 | |
Write down the whole path and trail that I was trying to work out. | 0:33:47 | 0:33:50 | |
All the various touch points, all the record companies, | 0:33:50 | 0:33:53 | |
all the people that had dealings | 0:33:53 | 0:33:54 | |
with Rodriguez and his album at some point. | 0:33:54 | 0:33:56 | |
I made this whole document. | 0:33:56 | 0:33:58 | |
So I found out there were three record companies in South Africa | 0:33:58 | 0:34:01 | |
that had released Rodriguez's records. | 0:34:01 | 0:34:03 | |
Finally discovering that led to a record company in America - | 0:34:03 | 0:34:07 | |
it was a company that had been signing Rodriguez | 0:34:07 | 0:34:09 | |
and creating his first album - called Sussex. | 0:34:09 | 0:34:12 | |
I then did my research on Sussex. | 0:34:12 | 0:34:14 | |
That led me to discovering | 0:34:14 | 0:34:16 | |
who the owner of Sussex Records was - Clarence Avant. | 0:34:16 | 0:34:21 | |
Clarence Avant, he'd been the head of Motown, | 0:34:21 | 0:34:23 | |
one of the most prestigious jobs to have | 0:34:23 | 0:34:25 | |
in the record company industry. | 0:34:25 | 0:34:26 | |
So I did my research. | 0:34:26 | 0:34:27 | |
I tried everything to get hold of Clarence Avant, | 0:34:27 | 0:34:30 | |
but I just got to a lot of closed doors. I could not get hold of him. | 0:34:30 | 0:34:33 | |
I don't know if you've ever seen this picture. | 0:34:45 | 0:34:48 | |
HE CHUCKLES That's him. | 0:34:48 | 0:34:51 | |
That's Rodriguez. | 0:34:53 | 0:34:55 | |
I don't know when this was made. I have absolutely no idea. | 0:34:56 | 0:34:58 | |
-That's 1970, I think. -Yeah. | 0:34:58 | 0:35:01 | |
This is my man. | 0:35:03 | 0:35:05 | |
Man, don't get me emotional again. Shit. | 0:35:09 | 0:35:12 | |
You made me emotional once. | 0:35:12 | 0:35:13 | |
I ain't getting emotional no more sitting here talking to you, man. | 0:35:13 | 0:35:17 | |
If I had to name ten artists that I have ever been involved with, | 0:35:18 | 0:35:22 | |
Rodriguez would be in the top five, simple as that. | 0:35:22 | 0:35:25 | |
There's nothing... You never heard anything like him. | 0:35:25 | 0:35:28 | |
People would say, "Well, Bob Dylan". I said, "No, no". | 0:35:28 | 0:35:30 | |
Bob Dylan was mild to this guy. Did it make any money? | 0:35:30 | 0:35:35 | |
We judge singing here in America... | 0:35:35 | 0:35:37 | |
If you say, "Is it... Was it the top hundred? | 0:35:37 | 0:35:40 | |
"Was it... was it number... Did it get on the charts as number 12? | 0:35:40 | 0:35:44 | |
"Was there a lot of radio play?" The answer's, "No, man". | 0:35:44 | 0:35:48 | |
Nobody didn't... "Rodriguez?" | 0:35:49 | 0:35:51 | |
You know, that name didn't register. | 0:35:52 | 0:35:55 | |
Although he looked like he was a white guy but, even still, Rodriguez, | 0:35:55 | 0:35:59 | |
everybody knew Rodriguez, that's a Spanish name. | 0:35:59 | 0:36:01 | |
A Latin name. Latin music was not happening then. | 0:36:01 | 0:36:04 | |
How many records do you think he sold in America? | 0:36:04 | 0:36:06 | |
In America? Six. | 0:36:06 | 0:36:09 | |
Maybe my wife bought it, maybe my daughter bought... | 0:36:09 | 0:36:11 | |
She couldn't buy it, but maybe Neil Bogart, maybe Dennis and Mike. | 0:36:11 | 0:36:14 | |
Hey, look, man, you know, it didn't sell here. | 0:36:14 | 0:36:19 | |
There was some excitement about him. | 0:36:19 | 0:36:22 | |
Couple of agents heard him and wanted to bring him to California | 0:36:22 | 0:36:26 | |
and, you know, when he came to California he was nervous, | 0:36:26 | 0:36:29 | |
and he turned his back to the audience | 0:36:29 | 0:36:31 | |
and everybody said, "Well, what the hell is this?" | 0:36:31 | 0:36:33 | |
But the thing is that the guy sold | 0:36:33 | 0:36:35 | |
hundreds of thousands of records in another country. | 0:36:35 | 0:36:38 | |
I'm going to South Africa | 0:36:38 | 0:36:39 | |
to try to chase somebody who's selling records? Shit, no, man. | 0:36:39 | 0:36:41 | |
But did you know that he was big in South Africa? | 0:36:41 | 0:36:43 | |
Rodriguez, young man, never happened insofar as I'm concerned. | 0:36:43 | 0:36:49 | |
Period. | 0:36:49 | 0:36:50 | |
But if I'm really going to try to track down the money, | 0:36:50 | 0:36:53 | |
how should I do it? | 0:36:53 | 0:36:54 | |
Well, is that important, the money? Or is Rod... | 0:36:54 | 0:36:57 | |
Which is important? Rodriguez's story or you worrying about the money? | 0:36:57 | 0:37:02 | |
How many people in South Africa? | 0:37:02 | 0:37:04 | |
40 million? 40,000? 40 million people? How many people? | 0:37:04 | 0:37:06 | |
40 million people live in South Africa. | 0:37:06 | 0:37:09 | |
Well, so they've been freed for how long? Three hours? | 0:37:09 | 0:37:12 | |
So what the fuck's that supposed to mean? You told me at lunch, | 0:37:12 | 0:37:14 | |
they scratch records because they wouldn't let the lyrics... | 0:37:14 | 0:37:17 | |
So the underground movement, how big was it? How big was it? | 0:37:17 | 0:37:21 | |
He sold half a million records in South Africa. | 0:37:21 | 0:37:23 | |
Well, so he sold half a million records. So what? | 0:37:23 | 0:37:26 | |
I don't know who he sold them to. | 0:37:26 | 0:37:27 | |
How many distributors did he have? I have no idea. | 0:37:27 | 0:37:29 | |
There are three record labels. | 0:37:29 | 0:37:31 | |
-I spoke to all the record label... -Well, great. | 0:37:31 | 0:37:33 | |
..bosses in South Africa who has released his records. | 0:37:33 | 0:37:37 | |
-It was... -Go back to 'em and tell 'em to send me an account. | 0:37:37 | 0:37:40 | |
You think it's something they're going to worry about, | 0:37:40 | 0:37:42 | |
a 1970 contract? If you do, you're outta your goddamn mind. | 0:37:42 | 0:37:45 | |
Buddha Records out of business. I'm out of business. | 0:37:45 | 0:37:49 | |
So you think they give a shit about that? I know I wouldn't. | 0:37:50 | 0:37:54 | |
I've been looking for information about Rodriguez for a long time. | 0:37:57 | 0:38:00 | |
I've even set-up a web page called The Great Rodriguez Hunt | 0:38:00 | 0:38:03 | |
in the hope that someone out there in cyberspace | 0:38:03 | 0:38:06 | |
would post a message on the forum | 0:38:06 | 0:38:07 | |
giving us any information about Rodriguez. | 0:38:07 | 0:38:11 | |
But there was nothing. | 0:38:11 | 0:38:12 | |
At that stage I met Craig, | 0:38:12 | 0:38:15 | |
who was the musicologist detective who had read my liner notes | 0:38:15 | 0:38:18 | |
and who was also searching for Rodriguez. | 0:38:18 | 0:38:20 | |
And he flew down to Cape Town and we met in a coffee shop. | 0:38:20 | 0:38:23 | |
And we exchanged all the information we had. | 0:38:23 | 0:38:26 | |
But unfortunately we had very little. | 0:38:26 | 0:38:29 | |
And at that stage I remember we felt | 0:38:29 | 0:38:30 | |
it was probably best if we just stopped. | 0:38:30 | 0:38:33 | |
So basically I was lost. I'd come to a dead end. I couldn't find him. | 0:38:33 | 0:38:36 | |
I didn't know where to look any more. | 0:38:36 | 0:38:37 | |
I'd even visited the places that he sang about. | 0:38:37 | 0:38:40 | |
I'd been to London. Nothing. | 0:38:40 | 0:38:42 | |
I'd been to Amsterdam. He sings about Amsterdam. Nothing. | 0:38:42 | 0:38:46 | |
And one day I'd basically given up. I thought, "Well, this is it". | 0:38:46 | 0:38:49 | |
And one day, just by accident, I was listening to the album in the car | 0:38:49 | 0:38:52 | |
and I heard the song Inner City Blues. | 0:38:52 | 0:38:54 | |
Great song. And the line came up. | 0:38:54 | 0:38:56 | |
"I met a girl in Dearborn, early six o'clock this morn. | 0:38:56 | 0:38:59 | |
"A cold fact". | 0:38:59 | 0:39:01 | |
Then I thought, "Hang on a minute". I'd never checked out Dearborn. | 0:39:01 | 0:39:04 | |
I didn't even know if it WAS a city but then I thought, | 0:39:04 | 0:39:06 | |
"Actually, that sounds like a town or a city". | 0:39:06 | 0:39:08 | |
And I thought, "Hang on, let me check it out in an atlas". | 0:39:08 | 0:39:11 | |
So I went through to my old atlas and pulled it out. | 0:39:11 | 0:39:16 | |
I thought, "Let me see what I could find here. | 0:39:16 | 0:39:19 | |
"Let me see if I could find Dearborn". | 0:39:19 | 0:39:22 | |
Um... Dear... | 0:39:22 | 0:39:24 | |
Then I found it. Dearborn, Wayne, Michigan. F7. | 0:39:24 | 0:39:28 | |
F... 7. | 0:39:32 | 0:39:34 | |
Dearborn. Part of Detroit. That was a huge breakthrough in my mind. | 0:39:34 | 0:39:39 | |
Detroit, home of Motown, Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder, | 0:39:39 | 0:39:44 | |
and, eventually, Mike Theodore, the producer of the album. | 0:39:44 | 0:39:47 | |
I was sifting in my condo, just having a cup of coffee. | 0:39:52 | 0:39:56 | |
I was looking out the window watching the ocean. Phone rings. | 0:39:56 | 0:40:00 | |
It's a long-distance call from South Africa... | 0:40:01 | 0:40:04 | |
..from a writer whose name's Craig Bartholomew, | 0:40:05 | 0:40:09 | |
and he starts telling me this amazing story. | 0:40:09 | 0:40:14 | |
So he said, "Do you know that Rodriguez | 0:40:15 | 0:40:17 | |
"has been selling in South Africa for 25 years? | 0:40:17 | 0:40:20 | |
"His albums are selling millions". | 0:40:20 | 0:40:22 | |
I said, "What?!" | 0:40:22 | 0:40:24 | |
Then he's sitting there and he wants... | 0:40:24 | 0:40:26 | |
He starts telling me some stories. | 0:40:26 | 0:40:28 | |
He said, "How did Rodriguez die?" | 0:40:28 | 0:40:30 | |
And he's telling me information that he had that Rodriguez had... | 0:40:30 | 0:40:34 | |
..blown his brains out on stage, | 0:40:35 | 0:40:37 | |
or set himself on fire and killed himself. | 0:40:37 | 0:40:40 | |
I had 100 questions I wanted to ask. | 0:40:40 | 0:40:42 | |
I was just hoping I could get all my questions in, you know. | 0:40:42 | 0:40:45 | |
"Why did he write this lyric? Why did he write that lyric? | 0:40:45 | 0:40:48 | |
"Where did he record this album? Where did he record that album?" | 0:40:48 | 0:40:52 | |
And we got talking and I asked him a lot of questions and it was amazing. | 0:40:52 | 0:40:56 | |
It was a roller coaster ride of questions and answers, | 0:40:56 | 0:40:59 | |
and it was a euphoric moment of just having finally broken through | 0:40:59 | 0:41:02 | |
and discovered something. | 0:41:02 | 0:41:03 | |
And finally I got to the one question I wanted to know the answer of, was, | 0:41:03 | 0:41:07 | |
"How did Rodriguez die? Did he blow himself up on stage? Or... | 0:41:07 | 0:41:11 | |
"What is this dramatic story? | 0:41:11 | 0:41:14 | |
"Let's open up the lid on this right away, and find out what happened". | 0:41:14 | 0:41:18 | |
And Mike Theodore said, | 0:41:18 | 0:41:21 | |
"What do you mean dead? He's not dead." | 0:41:21 | 0:41:23 | |
"Sixto is alive. He's alive and kicking. | 0:41:25 | 0:41:27 | |
"The principal artist known as Sixto Rodriguez | 0:41:27 | 0:41:31 | |
"is alive and kicking and living in Detroit". | 0:41:31 | 0:41:34 | |
I... I can't remember who called me and said, "They've found him". | 0:41:38 | 0:41:41 | |
I said, "No. You're shitting me. This isn't... No". | 0:41:41 | 0:41:45 | |
HE LAUGHS | 0:41:45 | 0:41:46 | |
At first I thought it was a hoax. I thought somebody was faking it. | 0:41:46 | 0:41:51 | |
You know, it's like going into Tutankhamen's tomb | 0:41:52 | 0:41:55 | |
and finding the mummy. You know, it was like, "Wow, he lives". | 0:41:55 | 0:41:58 | |
I remember dancing on the spot when I was staying on the phone. | 0:41:58 | 0:42:02 | |
And Craig and I were jumping up and down saying, | 0:42:02 | 0:42:04 | |
"We found him, we found him". | 0:42:04 | 0:42:05 | |
It was the most exciting thing. We'd actually done it. | 0:42:05 | 0:42:08 | |
MUSIC "I Think of You" by Rodriguez | 0:42:08 | 0:42:10 | |
# Just a song we shared out here | 0:42:10 | 0:42:15 | |
# Brings memories back when you were here | 0:42:16 | 0:42:20 | |
# Of your smile, your easy laughter | 0:42:22 | 0:42:27 | |
# Of your kiss, those moments after | 0:42:27 | 0:42:32 | |
# I think of you | 0:42:32 | 0:42:35 | |
So that was it. | 0:42:38 | 0:42:39 | |
I'd come to the point, it was the end of the story. | 0:42:39 | 0:42:42 | |
I was searching for a dead man. One morning I discovered a living man. | 0:42:42 | 0:42:46 | |
And to me that was the end of the story. I wrote my article, | 0:42:46 | 0:42:49 | |
I called it "Looking for Jesus". | 0:42:49 | 0:42:51 | |
I faxed it to many individuals, many people involved, | 0:42:51 | 0:42:54 | |
but somehow this article made its way across the Atlantic | 0:42:54 | 0:42:59 | |
and into the hands of someone in America. | 0:42:59 | 0:43:01 | |
And what I thought was the end of story | 0:43:01 | 0:43:04 | |
was actually just the beginning of another story, | 0:43:04 | 0:43:06 | |
and the best part was still to come. | 0:43:06 | 0:43:09 | |
Cos I don't know where it is. It might take a while. | 0:43:11 | 0:43:14 | |
They do have the dates. | 0:43:14 | 0:43:15 | |
"Three-year search for dead singer". Yes. | 0:43:15 | 0:43:18 | |
August '97. I was in Kansas. | 0:43:18 | 0:43:22 | |
I got a copy of it to me at work. I was on, like, a 24-hour shift. | 0:43:22 | 0:43:25 | |
And then, I went online | 0:43:25 | 0:43:28 | |
and that's when I discovered the website. | 0:43:28 | 0:43:32 | |
When I went online there was this milk carton with a picture. | 0:43:32 | 0:43:36 | |
And it said, "Wanted" and "Have you seen this man?" | 0:43:36 | 0:43:41 | |
I was like, "Matter of fact, I have seen him before". | 0:43:41 | 0:43:45 | |
I replied, "Rodriguez is my father. I'm serious. | 0:43:46 | 0:43:50 | |
"Do you really want to know about my father? | 0:43:50 | 0:43:53 | |
"Sometimes the fantasy is better left alive". | 0:43:53 | 0:43:57 | |
I don't know why I said that, but anyway I did. | 0:43:57 | 0:43:59 | |
And then I gave them e-mail address, phone numbers, | 0:43:59 | 0:44:03 | |
anything that they wanted to contact me. And he phoned me. | 0:44:03 | 0:44:06 | |
Well, we'd found out that Rodriguez was alive. | 0:44:11 | 0:44:13 | |
I'd spoken to Craig. | 0:44:13 | 0:44:15 | |
I came to work and Alex McCrindle, | 0:44:15 | 0:44:16 | |
who was the guy I worked on the website with said, | 0:44:16 | 0:44:19 | |
"You're not going to believe what's on the website". | 0:44:19 | 0:44:23 | |
And on the website was a forum where people could post messages, | 0:44:23 | 0:44:26 | |
and there was a message that said, | 0:44:26 | 0:44:28 | |
"My name's Eva. I'm Rodriguez's daughter". She'd left a phone number | 0:44:28 | 0:44:31 | |
and she said, "I'd like to speak to someone in connection with this". | 0:44:31 | 0:44:34 | |
So that night I phoned her. | 0:44:34 | 0:44:37 | |
I said, "Hi, I'm Sugar," and she said, "I'm Eva," | 0:44:37 | 0:44:39 | |
and we had the most amazing conversation. | 0:44:39 | 0:44:42 | |
She explained to me who her father was, | 0:44:42 | 0:44:44 | |
what he had done, where he had been. | 0:44:44 | 0:44:46 | |
She asked me who I was and I explained why my name was Sugar | 0:44:46 | 0:44:49 | |
and how I was involved with the website. | 0:44:49 | 0:44:52 | |
And then at the end I said to her, | 0:44:52 | 0:44:54 | |
"This has been the most amazing thing for me, | 0:44:54 | 0:44:56 | |
"and what would be really great | 0:44:56 | 0:44:57 | |
"is if I could, at some point, speak to your dad. | 0:44:57 | 0:45:00 | |
"I'd love it if I could just say hello to him". | 0:45:00 | 0:45:01 | |
Because, for me, this was sort of the end of the search | 0:45:01 | 0:45:04 | |
and I just wanted to speak to this man. | 0:45:04 | 0:45:06 | |
And then I went to bed. | 0:45:06 | 0:45:08 | |
And 1:00 in the morning that night, the phone rang. | 0:45:08 | 0:45:12 | |
And my wife answers it cos it was her side of the bed. | 0:45:12 | 0:45:15 | |
And I remember she picked up the phone and her face just changed. | 0:45:15 | 0:45:20 | |
She had this look of awe. She said, "It's him". | 0:45:20 | 0:45:24 | |
And I was in shock. I'd been sleeping | 0:45:24 | 0:45:26 | |
and I ran into the other room, into my study, | 0:45:26 | 0:45:29 | |
and I picked up the phone and she put hers down. | 0:45:29 | 0:45:31 | |
And I said, "Hello?" and a voice said... | 0:45:31 | 0:45:34 | |
RODRIGUEZ'S VOICE ON PHONE: 'Hello, is that Sugar?' | 0:45:34 | 0:45:36 | |
And I knew, I just knew, because I knew that voice. | 0:45:36 | 0:45:39 | |
I'd heard that voice so many times on the records, I knew it was him. | 0:45:39 | 0:45:43 | |
I was talking to Rodriguez. | 0:45:43 | 0:45:45 | |
That, for me, was one of the greatest moments of my life. | 0:45:45 | 0:45:49 | |
MUSIC: "Sandrevan Lullaby" by Rodriguez | 0:45:49 | 0:45:52 | |
-Whenever you're ready. -OK. | 0:46:55 | 0:46:59 | |
Is this all right? Should I be doing something though? | 0:46:59 | 0:47:01 | |
Should I have a glass of water or something? Is that right? | 0:47:01 | 0:47:04 | |
-Do you want? -Yeah. I like that. | 0:47:04 | 0:47:07 | |
Yeah, this is... I'm supposed to be comfortable. | 0:47:07 | 0:47:10 | |
So run the question to me again. Just so I can hear it in my head. | 0:47:20 | 0:47:24 | |
In the '70s and '80s, did you ever get any contact from South Africa? | 0:47:25 | 0:47:29 | |
Uh... No, I didn't. | 0:47:29 | 0:47:31 | |
Maybe they didn't have a contact number or something | 0:47:33 | 0:47:36 | |
but, no, I didn't. | 0:47:36 | 0:47:37 | |
How does that feel? You weren't aware of something | 0:47:37 | 0:47:40 | |
that would have changed your life completely. | 0:47:40 | 0:47:42 | |
I mean, probably for the better. | 0:47:42 | 0:47:44 | |
Well, I don't know if it would have been for the better, | 0:47:44 | 0:47:47 | |
but it's certainly a thought, you know. | 0:47:47 | 0:47:51 | |
But wouldn't it have been nice to know that you were a superstar? | 0:47:51 | 0:47:55 | |
Uh, well... | 0:47:55 | 0:47:56 | |
I don't know how to respond to that. | 0:48:01 | 0:48:03 | |
After Coming From Reality, did you want to continue making albums? | 0:48:03 | 0:48:07 | |
I would have liked to have continued but nothing beats Reality. | 0:48:07 | 0:48:11 | |
So I pretty much went back to work. | 0:48:11 | 0:48:14 | |
What did you do? | 0:48:14 | 0:48:16 | |
I... Well, I'd do hired labour. | 0:48:16 | 0:48:19 | |
Demolition, renovation of buildings, | 0:48:19 | 0:48:23 | |
of homes, you know. Restoration. | 0:48:23 | 0:48:27 | |
Did you enjoy that? | 0:48:28 | 0:48:30 | |
I do. It keeps the blood circulating, keeps you fit, yeah. | 0:48:30 | 0:48:35 | |
But it's quite far away from music. | 0:48:35 | 0:48:37 | |
Uh... Yeah, quite a bit, quite a different contrast, yeah. | 0:48:37 | 0:48:41 | |
Did you continue making music on your own? | 0:48:41 | 0:48:43 | |
I do, I play guitar. I love playing guitar. | 0:48:43 | 0:48:47 | |
But I do love to listen. I like to go see the shows and things. | 0:48:47 | 0:48:51 | |
But I do get about. | 0:48:51 | 0:48:53 | |
MUSIC: "Street Boy" by Rodriguez | 0:48:53 | 0:48:56 | |
# Street boy You've been out too long | 0:49:11 | 0:49:16 | |
# Street boy Makes kind of sense to go home | 0:49:16 | 0:49:21 | |
# Street boy You're going to end up alone | 0:49:21 | 0:49:25 | |
# You need some love and understanding | 0:49:25 | 0:49:28 | |
# Not that dead-end life you're planning | 0:49:28 | 0:49:30 | |
# Street boy | 0:49:30 | 0:49:32 | |
# You go home but you can't stay | 0:49:40 | 0:49:44 | |
# Because something's always pulling you away | 0:49:44 | 0:49:49 | |
# You're fast hellos And quick goodbyes | 0:49:49 | 0:49:53 | |
# You're just a street boy with the street lights in your eyes | 0:49:53 | 0:49:58 | |
# You'd better get yourself together | 0:49:58 | 0:50:00 | |
# Look for something better. # | 0:50:00 | 0:50:03 | |
He never said anything about being disappointed. | 0:50:03 | 0:50:06 | |
He would just move on, continue to survive | 0:50:06 | 0:50:09 | |
because you can't just give up. | 0:50:09 | 0:50:11 | |
What did he do instead? | 0:50:11 | 0:50:13 | |
He read a lot. | 0:50:13 | 0:50:14 | |
He was involved in politics. He was involved in the community. | 0:50:14 | 0:50:18 | |
He would attend protests and rallies, | 0:50:18 | 0:50:20 | |
if those were causes that he believed in. He would take us along. | 0:50:20 | 0:50:24 | |
He was always a proponent of working for the people | 0:50:24 | 0:50:28 | |
that maybe didn't always have a voice, | 0:50:28 | 0:50:30 | |
or didn't have a chance to speak up, the working class, the working poor. | 0:50:30 | 0:50:35 | |
He had a lot of experience in that area. | 0:50:36 | 0:50:41 | |
He approached the work from a different place than most people do. | 0:50:42 | 0:50:46 | |
He took it very, very seriously. | 0:50:46 | 0:50:47 | |
Sort of like a sacrament, you know? | 0:50:47 | 0:50:50 | |
He was going to do this dirty, dirty work for eight or ten hours, OK? | 0:50:50 | 0:50:54 | |
But he was dressed in a tuxedo. | 0:50:54 | 0:50:56 | |
HE CHUCKLES | 0:50:56 | 0:50:58 | |
He had this kind of magical quality | 0:50:58 | 0:51:01 | |
that all genuine poets and artists have | 0:51:01 | 0:51:04 | |
to elevate things. To get above the mundane, the prosaic. | 0:51:04 | 0:51:09 | |
All the bullshit. All the mediocrity that's everywhere. | 0:51:09 | 0:51:13 | |
The artist, the artist is the pioneer. | 0:51:13 | 0:51:17 | |
Even if his musical hopes were dashed, the spirit remained. | 0:51:17 | 0:51:23 | |
And he just had to keep finding a place, refining the process | 0:51:23 | 0:51:27 | |
of how to apply himself. | 0:51:27 | 0:51:29 | |
He knew that there was something more. | 0:51:29 | 0:51:31 | |
It was in the early '80s. He wanted to do something, | 0:51:31 | 0:51:34 | |
do something righteous, make a difference. | 0:51:34 | 0:51:36 | |
-So, lo and behold... -HE CHUCKLES | 0:51:36 | 0:51:40 | |
..he told me that he was going to run for mayor, | 0:51:40 | 0:51:42 | |
and I thought, "Well, God bless you, Rodriguez. | 0:51:42 | 0:51:45 | |
"You know, if you can become Mayor of Detroit, | 0:51:45 | 0:51:47 | |
"then anything is possible". | 0:51:47 | 0:51:49 | |
MUSIC: "Inner City Blues" by Rodriguez) | 0:51:49 | 0:51:51 | |
# Met a girl from Dearborn Early six o'clock this morn | 0:51:51 | 0:51:54 | |
# A cold fact | 0:51:54 | 0:51:55 | |
# Asked about her bag Suburbia's such a drag | 0:51:58 | 0:52:02 | |
# Won't go back | 0:52:02 | 0:52:03 | |
# Cos papa don't allow no new ideas here... # | 0:52:06 | 0:52:11 | |
Some old items from Rodriguez. | 0:52:14 | 0:52:16 | |
This is his bumper sticker, | 0:52:18 | 0:52:21 | |
from the first time he ran for city council. | 0:52:21 | 0:52:24 | |
And I think this is a copy of the ballot. | 0:52:26 | 0:52:29 | |
He didn't win an election, ever. | 0:52:29 | 0:52:32 | |
139. There were 169 candidates. Nine get elected. | 0:52:32 | 0:52:38 | |
They spelled his name wrong. | 0:52:38 | 0:52:40 | |
My relatives on my mother's side of the family | 0:52:48 | 0:52:53 | |
are European and Native American. | 0:52:53 | 0:52:56 | |
And my father's family is Mexican. | 0:52:56 | 0:52:59 | |
My grandfather came from Mexico. | 0:52:59 | 0:53:01 | |
The Mexican came to Detroit to work in the auto factories, | 0:53:01 | 0:53:05 | |
so we were working-class people, blue-collar workers, hard labour. | 0:53:05 | 0:53:11 | |
Um, we lived in 26 different homes | 0:53:11 | 0:53:14 | |
and some houses didn't have bedrooms. | 0:53:14 | 0:53:17 | |
Some houses didn't have bathrooms. | 0:53:17 | 0:53:19 | |
And they weren't homes. They were just places that we lived. | 0:53:19 | 0:53:24 | |
But just because people are poor or have little | 0:53:24 | 0:53:28 | |
doesn't mean that, you know, their dreams aren't big | 0:53:28 | 0:53:31 | |
and their soul isn't rich, you know, | 0:53:31 | 0:53:35 | |
and that's where the classes and the prejudice come from | 0:53:35 | 0:53:39 | |
is that there is a difference between you and me, | 0:53:39 | 0:53:41 | |
and there's a difference between them and us. | 0:53:41 | 0:53:43 | |
MUSIC: "A Most Disgusting Song" by Rodriguez) | 0:53:43 | 0:53:45 | |
# I've played every kind of gig there is to play now | 0:53:45 | 0:53:49 | |
# I've played faggot bars, hooker bars, motorcycle funerals | 0:53:51 | 0:53:55 | |
# In opera houses, concert halls, halfway houses | 0:53:56 | 0:54:00 | |
# Well, I found that in all these places that I've played | 0:54:06 | 0:54:10 | |
# All the people that I've played for are the same people | 0:54:12 | 0:54:15 | |
# So if you'll listen, maybe you'll see someone you know in this song | 0:54:17 | 0:54:20 | |
# A most disgusting song... # | 0:54:22 | 0:54:24 | |
He wasn't just doing your average carpentry. You know, | 0:54:26 | 0:54:29 | |
he was really cleaning out the house. | 0:54:29 | 0:54:31 | |
I mean, doing work that no-one else wanted to do. | 0:54:31 | 0:54:35 | |
Really, no-one else wanted to do that work. | 0:54:35 | 0:54:38 | |
He would come home, he would be covered in dust | 0:54:38 | 0:54:41 | |
and dirt, paint chips, from his day's work. Long days. | 0:54:41 | 0:54:47 | |
I saw him take refrigerators down on his back, downstairs. | 0:54:47 | 0:54:52 | |
It was just a day at work for him, | 0:54:52 | 0:54:54 | |
but I knew he was a harder worker | 0:54:54 | 0:54:56 | |
than a lot of other fathers that I knew of. | 0:54:56 | 0:54:59 | |
It's a city that tells you not to dream big, | 0:55:00 | 0:55:02 | |
not to expect anything more. | 0:55:02 | 0:55:05 | |
But he always took me to places | 0:55:05 | 0:55:07 | |
that only certain elite people would be able to go, so... | 0:55:07 | 0:55:11 | |
he kind of instilled in me that I can go anywhere I want, | 0:55:11 | 0:55:14 | |
regardless of what my bank statement says, and I'm going, you know. | 0:55:14 | 0:55:19 | |
So, that's kinda how he was. He showed me the top floors of places. | 0:55:19 | 0:55:24 | |
I said, "I'm just as good as they are," you know. | 0:55:24 | 0:55:27 | |
He majored in philosophy in university. | 0:55:27 | 0:55:30 | |
My dad gave us a lot of exposure to the arts. | 0:55:30 | 0:55:34 | |
He would let us go into the libraries | 0:55:34 | 0:55:37 | |
and the museums and the science centres, | 0:55:37 | 0:55:40 | |
and where that was our day care, and we... | 0:55:40 | 0:55:42 | |
..toured the halls of the museum and saw Diego Rivera | 0:55:44 | 0:55:48 | |
and, you know, all Picasso and Delacroix and... | 0:55:48 | 0:55:52 | |
We began to learn of life outside of the city, | 0:55:52 | 0:55:56 | |
and that's in books and paintings and in music. | 0:55:56 | 0:55:59 | |
MUSIC: "Lifestyles" by Rodriguez | 0:55:59 | 0:56:00 | |
# The judges with meter-maid hearts | 0:56:00 | 0:56:03 | |
# Or their supermarket justice starts | 0:56:03 | 0:56:06 | |
# Frozen children inner city | 0:56:07 | 0:56:10 | |
# Walkers in the paper rain | 0:56:12 | 0:56:14 | |
# Waiting for those knights that never came | 0:56:14 | 0:56:17 | |
# The hijacked trying so hard to be pretty | 0:56:19 | 0:56:22 | |
# Night rains tap at my window | 0:56:24 | 0:56:28 | |
# Winds of my thoughts passing by | 0:56:30 | 0:56:34 | |
# She laughed when I tried to tell her | 0:56:36 | 0:56:40 | |
# Hello only ends in goodbye. # | 0:56:42 | 0:56:46 | |
Well, I started playing when I was 16, | 0:57:08 | 0:57:10 | |
and the thing is, it was a family guitar, | 0:57:10 | 0:57:13 | |
and I played a lot of bars in the city | 0:57:13 | 0:57:16 | |
and clubs in the city, small rooms. | 0:57:16 | 0:57:18 | |
And I met Mike Theodore and Dennis Coffey | 0:57:20 | 0:57:23 | |
and they came to the club to see me play. | 0:57:23 | 0:57:25 | |
I had a gig at a place called The Sewer, | 0:57:25 | 0:57:29 | |
right out by the Detroit River, | 0:57:29 | 0:57:31 | |
and then we got a record deal from Clarence Avant, | 0:57:31 | 0:57:35 | |
so that's how it started. | 0:57:35 | 0:57:37 | |
But all those early years were, you know...a lot of work. | 0:57:37 | 0:57:41 | |
I was at a Chrysler plant called Dodge Maine, | 0:57:41 | 0:57:45 | |
and I also worked at Eldon and Lynch Road in Detroit. | 0:57:45 | 0:57:48 | |
Worked in the heat treat department. Stuff like that. | 0:57:48 | 0:57:51 | |
A lot of heavy labour. | 0:57:51 | 0:57:53 | |
But it was a good year for me. This Cold Fact thing. | 0:57:53 | 0:57:57 | |
I had achieved what I was trying to do, is to get a product, you know. | 0:57:58 | 0:58:02 | |
And it was going very well, I thought, you know. | 0:58:02 | 0:58:04 | |
How did it feel? A great feeling of accomplishment. Actualization. | 0:58:04 | 0:58:10 | |
Did you believe that it was a good album? | 0:58:10 | 0:58:12 | |
Um... | 0:58:12 | 0:58:14 | |
I did my best with it. | 0:58:14 | 0:58:16 | |
The reviews were good on it, and... | 0:58:18 | 0:58:21 | |
Yeah, I thought it was good. | 0:58:21 | 0:58:23 | |
I'm not the one to ask that, though. HE CHUCKLES | 0:58:25 | 0:58:28 | |
Ask that question to. | 0:58:28 | 0:58:30 | |
But you go ahead, yeah. | 0:58:30 | 0:58:32 | |
Were you surprised that it didn't sell? | 0:58:32 | 0:58:33 | |
Um... | 0:58:33 | 0:58:35 | |
Was I surprised? | 0:58:36 | 0:58:38 | |
It's the music business so there's no guarantees, you know? | 0:58:38 | 0:58:42 | |
So I told him, "You're bigger than Elvis," | 0:58:47 | 0:58:50 | |
and he said, "What do you mean?" | 0:58:50 | 0:58:51 | |
I said, "In South Africa you are more popular than Elvis Presley". | 0:58:51 | 0:58:55 | |
And there was this pause, | 0:58:55 | 0:58:56 | |
and I sensed he thought it was a crank call | 0:58:56 | 0:58:58 | |
and he was going to hang up. | 0:58:58 | 0:59:00 | |
So I said, "Listen, wait. Listen, listen to me, wait. | 0:59:00 | 0:59:03 | |
"I promise you, just come here. You won't be disappointed". | 0:59:03 | 0:59:05 | |
He's working his ass off in Woodbridge. | 0:59:05 | 0:59:09 | |
One day, be brought this picture of himself on a milk carton. | 0:59:09 | 0:59:12 | |
HE CHUCKLES | 0:59:12 | 0:59:14 | |
And he'd say, "Emmerson, look at this. | 0:59:14 | 0:59:17 | |
"You know, they're looking for me". | 0:59:17 | 0:59:19 | |
I said, "Really? Why is that, Rodriguez?" | 0:59:20 | 0:59:24 | |
Next day he says, "Emmerson, I got to go on tour". | 0:59:24 | 0:59:28 | |
I said, "Come on, Rodriguez, are you serious?" | 0:59:28 | 0:59:31 | |
Because I'm a journalist, I doubted it. | 0:59:31 | 0:59:32 | |
That sort of thing does not happen in the rational universe. | 0:59:32 | 0:59:35 | |
It does not happen. It's against the laws of God and nature. | 0:59:35 | 0:59:38 | |
This guy is coming to tour here, he must be an imposter. | 0:59:38 | 0:59:41 | |
It's a clever public relations scam. | 0:59:41 | 0:59:43 | |
Actually, not even a clever public relations scam. | 0:59:43 | 0:59:45 | |
It's a stupid public relations scam cos it so obviously can't be true. | 0:59:45 | 0:59:49 | |
Only idiots would believe it. They... | 0:59:49 | 0:59:51 | |
But I was wrong. | 0:59:53 | 0:59:55 | |
We were always anxious, of course, to get off the plane. | 1:00:03 | 1:00:05 | |
That was a long flight. But we got off the plane | 1:00:05 | 1:00:08 | |
and we put our bags on our backs and, you know, they were heavy | 1:00:08 | 1:00:12 | |
and we just kept moving towards the airport. | 1:00:12 | 1:00:15 | |
And suddenly, three, two limousines pulled up and... | 1:00:16 | 1:00:19 | |
..we were sure that they weren't for us. | 1:00:21 | 1:00:23 | |
We were like kind of walking around them. | 1:00:23 | 1:00:26 | |
Like, "Oh, we better get out of these people's way | 1:00:26 | 1:00:28 | |
"cos they're important people in limos". | 1:00:28 | 1:00:31 | |
But they were for us. And that's when it began. | 1:00:31 | 1:00:34 | |
It was all another world. It was another world. | 1:00:34 | 1:00:38 | |
Just like you would see people... over Madonna or... | 1:00:38 | 1:00:43 | |
Like stepping out into the wind and the paparazzi and all the... | 1:00:43 | 1:00:48 | |
you know, the production assistants | 1:00:48 | 1:00:51 | |
and everybody are there to welcome him | 1:00:51 | 1:00:54 | |
and take us into the VIP suite. | 1:00:54 | 1:00:57 | |
The white carpeting. You know, that was something that | 1:00:57 | 1:01:01 | |
never would we ever even dream of walking on white carpeting, | 1:01:01 | 1:01:05 | |
-especially in your shoes. -SHE LAUGHS | 1:01:05 | 1:01:08 | |
They put him in a limo and they drove him into the city. | 1:01:08 | 1:01:11 | |
And along the way, on all the lamp posts, | 1:01:11 | 1:01:13 | |
were placards advertising the concert. | 1:01:13 | 1:01:15 | |
And he saw his face on every lamp post as it sped by | 1:01:15 | 1:01:18 | |
and he'd go, "There I am, there I am, there I am". | 1:01:18 | 1:01:21 | |
So we came and we got to meet all the people. | 1:01:21 | 1:01:24 | |
We got to meet Craig Bartholomew and their family and their kids | 1:01:24 | 1:01:27 | |
and Stephen Segerman. | 1:01:27 | 1:01:29 | |
And everybody was just so happy. Everybody was thrilled. | 1:01:29 | 1:01:33 | |
We were even happier. | 1:01:33 | 1:01:34 | |
Stephen phoned me. He said, "You will never believe this... | 1:01:34 | 1:01:38 | |
.."but Rodriguez is coming to South Africa | 1:01:39 | 1:01:42 | |
"and we can be the opening band. | 1:01:42 | 1:01:43 | |
"Do you want to do it?" I said, "Of course we want to do it". | 1:01:43 | 1:01:46 | |
"Why? Where is he?" "Now they found him. | 1:01:48 | 1:01:51 | |
"They found him, he's alive, | 1:01:51 | 1:01:52 | |
"he's going to come and tour in South Africa". | 1:01:52 | 1:01:55 | |
Are we going to be the opening band. So I couldn't really believe this. | 1:01:55 | 1:01:59 | |
And then I got all the information - | 1:02:00 | 1:02:02 | |
he's living in Detroit and everything. | 1:02:02 | 1:02:04 | |
And then a little while later he said, | 1:02:04 | 1:02:06 | |
"Look, it turns out he hasn't got a band. | 1:02:06 | 1:02:09 | |
"Could we be the support band?" I mean his band. | 1:02:09 | 1:02:12 | |
I remember, even then, we were sort of... | 1:02:12 | 1:02:17 | |
"Is this really going to be Rodriguez?" | 1:02:18 | 1:02:20 | |
We'll only know if he can actually sing these songs. | 1:02:20 | 1:02:22 | |
I mean, we don't know. | 1:02:22 | 1:02:24 | |
-What if it's just some guy? -HE CHUCKLES | 1:02:24 | 1:02:26 | |
It was just like one day we heard about it | 1:02:26 | 1:02:28 | |
and the next day we were there... | 1:02:28 | 1:02:31 | |
..trying to believe our eyes, | 1:02:32 | 1:02:33 | |
thinking it was just all very shocking. | 1:02:33 | 1:02:37 | |
I don't know, he took to it really easy. | 1:02:37 | 1:02:39 | |
He just walked in and did his thing | 1:02:39 | 1:02:41 | |
and I was amazed that he did so well. | 1:02:41 | 1:02:44 | |
But he's not all "head in the clouds" kinda guy. | 1:02:44 | 1:02:47 | |
He's a little bit too much grounded. | 1:02:47 | 1:02:50 | |
He didn't take advantage of all the amenities and stuff. | 1:02:50 | 1:02:54 | |
He didn't sleep in the big double king size bed. | 1:02:54 | 1:02:57 | |
He kinda curled up on the love seat and I found him there and... | 1:02:57 | 1:03:00 | |
Yeah, he just didn't think somebody should have to make another bed | 1:03:00 | 1:03:04 | |
because he messed it up or... | 1:03:04 | 1:03:06 | |
There was a time where I stayed in the house we were at | 1:03:06 | 1:03:09 | |
and everyone else had gone out. | 1:03:09 | 1:03:12 | |
The phone rang and it kept ringing, so I decided to answer it. | 1:03:12 | 1:03:15 | |
And it was a reporter looking to speak with Rodriguez | 1:03:15 | 1:03:19 | |
and set up time for an interview. | 1:03:19 | 1:03:22 | |
And then, before she hung up, after I told her to call back later | 1:03:22 | 1:03:27 | |
to talk to someone cos I couldn't help her, | 1:03:27 | 1:03:29 | |
she told me that she wanted to know, between she and I, | 1:03:29 | 1:03:34 | |
if it was the real Rodriguez. | 1:03:34 | 1:03:36 | |
INDISTINCT CHATTER | 1:03:36 | 1:03:38 | |
'We were rehearsing with a CD | 1:03:38 | 1:03:40 | |
'of the songs that we've got in the studio here in Cape Town,' | 1:03:40 | 1:03:44 | |
on the day that he came from the airport, when he arrived, | 1:03:44 | 1:03:47 | |
and we were actually in the middle of a song when he walked in | 1:03:47 | 1:03:51 | |
and just took over the microphone and finished the song. | 1:03:51 | 1:03:53 | |
We switched off the CD player and it was, like, | 1:03:53 | 1:03:57 | |
completely seamless. Completely seamless. | 1:03:57 | 1:04:00 | |
I mean, "OK, this is the guy". | 1:04:00 | 1:04:02 | |
I think we all knew this is | 1:04:02 | 1:04:04 | |
going to be something really special. | 1:04:04 | 1:04:06 | |
Thank you, Cape Town. Thank you. | 1:04:23 | 1:04:26 | |
When we, uh... initially got on a plane, | 1:04:27 | 1:04:30 | |
I thought maybe there'd be, hopefully, | 1:04:30 | 1:04:32 | |
20 people in the audience. | 1:04:32 | 1:04:34 | |
-Hopefully. -SHE LAUGHS | 1:04:34 | 1:04:37 | |
But it turned out really, really different than that. | 1:04:37 | 1:04:40 | |
And there's old people and young people | 1:04:40 | 1:04:42 | |
and they're coming to see the show. | 1:04:42 | 1:04:45 | |
I stepped out on the stage before he went on stage, | 1:04:45 | 1:04:49 | |
cos I wanted to take a picture of the audience, | 1:04:49 | 1:04:51 | |
since "nobody's going to believe this!" | 1:04:51 | 1:04:54 | |
You must remember, this guy, | 1:04:54 | 1:04:55 | |
it's like seeing someone like Elvis come back from the dead. | 1:04:55 | 1:04:57 | |
People in the audience still don't believe it. They're standing there. | 1:04:57 | 1:05:00 | |
They're at the concert. They've paid their money. | 1:05:00 | 1:05:03 | |
They still don't believe that Rodriguez | 1:05:03 | 1:05:05 | |
is actually going to walk on that stage. | 1:05:05 | 1:05:06 | |
CHEERING | 1:05:06 | 1:05:09 | |
Are you ready? | 1:05:32 | 1:05:35 | |
CHEERING | 1:05:35 | 1:05:37 | |
Please welcome... | 1:05:37 | 1:05:39 | |
Rodriguez! | 1:05:39 | 1:05:41 | |
MUSIC: "I Wonder" by Rodriguez | 1:05:41 | 1:05:43 | |
CHEERING | 1:06:08 | 1:06:10 | |
It was almost as if he didn't even have to play. | 1:06:18 | 1:06:20 | |
They were just happy to see him. | 1:06:20 | 1:06:22 | |
So, for a time, I think, they wanted to meet. | 1:06:22 | 1:06:26 | |
It was a reunion. | 1:06:26 | 1:06:28 | |
It was something completely different. | 1:06:29 | 1:06:31 | |
It was for everybody there, I'm sure, | 1:06:31 | 1:06:33 | |
the most exciting concert they'd ever been to. | 1:06:33 | 1:06:35 | |
Because it was unique. | 1:06:35 | 1:06:37 | |
We'd never seen Rodriguez. And all you heard | 1:06:37 | 1:06:39 | |
was the bass player just playing... | 1:06:39 | 1:06:41 | |
HE MIMICS BASS | 1:06:41 | 1:06:43 | |
And Rodriguez wandered out to the front of the stage | 1:06:46 | 1:06:48 | |
and the bass player actually just stopped playing. And it took a while. | 1:06:48 | 1:06:51 | |
There was about five or ten minutes of just people screaming at him. | 1:06:51 | 1:06:55 | |
CHEERING | 1:06:55 | 1:06:57 | |
Thanks for keeping me alive. | 1:07:16 | 1:07:19 | |
INTRO CONTINUES | 1:07:24 | 1:07:26 | |
# I wonder How many times you've been had | 1:07:46 | 1:07:50 | |
# And I wonder How many plans have gone bad | 1:07:50 | 1:07:54 | |
# I wonder how many times you had sex | 1:07:54 | 1:07:58 | |
# And I wonder Do you know who'll be next? | 1:07:58 | 1:08:02 | |
# I wonder | 1:08:02 | 1:08:04 | |
# I wonder | 1:08:04 | 1:08:06 | |
# Wonder I do... # | 1:08:10 | 1:08:13 | |
I think to go from being the outcast | 1:08:15 | 1:08:19 | |
to being, uh, who he really was. | 1:08:19 | 1:08:24 | |
Because it was as though it was him again... And that was who he was, | 1:08:24 | 1:08:29 | |
a musician on stage, playing for his fans. | 1:08:29 | 1:08:32 | |
MUSIC: "Forget It" by Rodriguez | 1:08:32 | 1:08:36 | |
# It didn't work out But don't ever doubt how I felt | 1:08:36 | 1:08:40 | |
# About you | 1:08:40 | 1:08:42 | |
# But thanks for your time... # | 1:08:46 | 1:08:49 | |
BARTHOLOMEW-STRYDOM: 'I thought that I would see him | 1:08:53 | 1:08:55 | |
'being bewildered at all these people staring up at him. | 1:08:55 | 1:08:59 | |
'I saw the opposite. I saw this absolute tranquillity. | 1:08:59 | 1:09:02 | |
'There was absolute serenity on his face. Total. | 1:09:02 | 1:09:06 | |
'It's like he had arrived at that thing, at that place | 1:09:06 | 1:09:10 | |
'he'd tried to find his whole life.' | 1:09:10 | 1:09:12 | |
'Home is acceptance. | 1:09:12 | 1:09:15 | |
'Here's a guy who'd lived somewhere else, | 1:09:15 | 1:09:17 | |
'on the other side of the earth, | 1:09:17 | 1:09:18 | |
'and it was almost as if he had found his home.' | 1:09:18 | 1:09:21 | |
'And I looked around at all these people | 1:09:21 | 1:09:23 | |
'and I thought, "This is a once-in-a-lifetime experience. | 1:09:23 | 1:09:27 | |
' "This is never going to happen again". ' | 1:09:27 | 1:09:30 | |
INAUDIBLE | 1:10:02 | 1:10:04 | |
Well, isn't this all our great fate? | 1:10:18 | 1:10:21 | |
Your dreams of yourself, the higher forms of yourself is that one day | 1:10:21 | 1:10:26 | |
you will be recognised and that your talents and everything else, | 1:10:26 | 1:10:30 | |
will suddenly become visible to the world. | 1:10:30 | 1:10:33 | |
I mean, most of us die without coming anywhere close | 1:10:33 | 1:10:38 | |
to that sort of magic. | 1:10:38 | 1:10:41 | |
I tried to get him to talk about that when I interviewed him, | 1:10:41 | 1:10:44 | |
about how strange it was, and I got absolutely nothing back. | 1:10:44 | 1:10:47 | |
Absolutely nothing back. | 1:10:47 | 1:10:49 | |
And I couldn't tell whether | 1:10:49 | 1:10:50 | |
he was just like sort of cripplingly shy | 1:10:50 | 1:10:52 | |
or whether I was asking the wrong questions | 1:10:52 | 1:10:54 | |
or there was a language barrier or whatever. | 1:10:54 | 1:10:57 | |
Maybe that was OK as well because he preserved his mystery. | 1:10:57 | 1:11:02 | |
I walked away from that interview saying, | 1:11:02 | 1:11:04 | |
"This is all too strange to be true". | 1:11:04 | 1:11:07 | |
It remains too strange to be true. | 1:11:07 | 1:11:09 | |
"These are the days of miracles and wonder". | 1:11:09 | 1:11:12 | |
CHEERING | 1:11:12 | 1:11:14 | |
RODRIGUEZ: 'Oh, they were so sweet. | 1:11:34 | 1:11:36 | |
'I didn't believe it. | 1:11:36 | 1:11:38 | |
'And I still don't, but the thing is...' | 1:11:38 | 1:11:41 | |
So when I went on stage 5,000 seats all set up, | 1:11:41 | 1:11:46 | |
white seats, and the thing is... | 1:11:46 | 1:11:49 | |
And I said, "This is..." | 1:11:49 | 1:11:52 | |
So when I played a show, | 1:11:52 | 1:11:54 | |
they jumped out of their seats and rushed the stage. | 1:11:54 | 1:11:57 | |
South Africa made me feel like more than a prince. | 1:11:59 | 1:12:03 | |
-EVA: -And then signing the autographs for, like, a couple of hours. | 1:12:03 | 1:12:06 | |
I mean, just the line of people bringing their guitars to be signed, | 1:12:06 | 1:12:10 | |
bringing their CDs and... | 1:12:10 | 1:12:12 | |
-REGAN: -The most amazing thing I'd seen | 1:12:12 | 1:12:14 | |
was the man with his tattoo of the Cold Fact. | 1:12:14 | 1:12:17 | |
He was a Rodriguez impersonator. That just stoked my fire. | 1:12:17 | 1:12:21 | |
I was like, "Man, that is just too crazy". | 1:12:21 | 1:12:24 | |
I have with me here, presented to Rodriguez | 1:12:26 | 1:12:29 | |
for sales of the album Cold Fact. | 1:12:29 | 1:12:31 | |
CHEERING | 1:12:31 | 1:12:33 | |
Now just tell the States that, OK, will you? | 1:12:36 | 1:12:38 | |
LAUGHTER | 1:12:38 | 1:12:40 | |
American singer Rodriguez is certainly alive and well | 1:12:40 | 1:12:44 | |
and with us in the Front Row tonight. Welcome. | 1:12:44 | 1:12:46 | |
Very kind. How are you? | 1:12:46 | 1:12:48 | |
I've heard some really riveting tales about your "death". | 1:12:48 | 1:12:50 | |
I mean, they range from you pouring petrol all over yourself on stage | 1:12:50 | 1:12:53 | |
and committing suicide to taking a drug overdose and dying in prison... | 1:12:53 | 1:12:58 | |
-EVA: -Yeah, it was a beautiful, beautiful dream. And then... | 1:13:08 | 1:13:15 | |
-then you got to go back. -SHE LAUGHS | 1:13:15 | 1:13:18 | |
My dad said he's got two lives. | 1:13:18 | 1:13:21 | |
The carriage turns into the pumpkin bus or something. It's like... | 1:13:22 | 1:13:26 | |
Did people in Detroit believe you | 1:13:26 | 1:13:28 | |
when you came back and told them what had happened? | 1:13:28 | 1:13:31 | |
You know, people in Detroit need to hear something good. | 1:13:31 | 1:13:35 | |
I'm not sure how much of it they believed | 1:13:35 | 1:13:38 | |
because it is a grandiose story. | 1:13:38 | 1:13:40 | |
It sounds like something you would make up | 1:13:40 | 1:13:43 | |
if you were bragging on some dream or something. | 1:13:43 | 1:13:46 | |
-FERRETTI: -He was really quite famous. | 1:13:46 | 1:13:49 | |
He'd be, you know, tearing down this old shack | 1:13:49 | 1:13:53 | |
or he'd be sweeping up filth or dirt | 1:13:53 | 1:13:56 | |
and he started to show me one day, and I didn't believe him, | 1:13:56 | 1:13:59 | |
about the album and how it got to be so popular. | 1:13:59 | 1:14:03 | |
Somebody had a bootleg copy of this thing | 1:14:03 | 1:14:04 | |
and it spread around and everyone... | 1:14:04 | 1:14:06 | |
It got to be so popular that children could recite it | 1:14:06 | 1:14:11 | |
and sing the song word for word... ALL of the songs word for word. | 1:14:11 | 1:14:15 | |
And I had never heard of the album | 1:14:15 | 1:14:17 | |
and I said, "Can you get me an album?" | 1:14:17 | 1:14:18 | |
And he couldn't even get me one. | 1:14:18 | 1:14:20 | |
I mean, that's how obscure of a thing it was. | 1:14:20 | 1:14:23 | |
But he had all these photos and stuff, with these giant crowds, | 1:14:23 | 1:14:27 | |
20,000 people, like Woodstock or something. | 1:14:27 | 1:14:30 | |
Like, "Are you kidding me? That's you?" | 1:14:30 | 1:14:32 | |
I thought it was Photoshopped or something. I didn't believe him. | 1:14:32 | 1:14:36 | |
But he had all these giant crowds and he was quite content | 1:14:36 | 1:14:40 | |
to just go and sweep up people's lawns | 1:14:40 | 1:14:43 | |
or clean up and do manual labour. He stayed. | 1:14:43 | 1:14:47 | |
He lives a very, very, very modest life. | 1:14:48 | 1:14:53 | |
Definitely. | 1:14:55 | 1:14:57 | |
There's definitely no excess... | 1:14:57 | 1:14:59 | |
..and he definitely still works hard in order to make ends meet. | 1:15:01 | 1:15:06 | |
And there's no glamour to his life in that sense. | 1:15:06 | 1:15:12 | |
But he must be a rich man today? | 1:15:12 | 1:15:14 | |
No. | 1:15:14 | 1:15:16 | |
Rich in a lot of things but perhaps not material things. | 1:15:16 | 1:15:21 | |
I guess it just never got to that. | 1:15:21 | 1:15:23 | |
But he's sold hundreds of thousands of records in South Africa. | 1:15:23 | 1:15:26 | |
Well, yes. | 1:15:26 | 1:15:27 | |
But I believe there's a great deal of perhaps bootlegging... | 1:15:28 | 1:15:32 | |
..piracy, suchlike that. Perhaps... | 1:15:33 | 1:15:36 | |
Perhaps other people are rich. | 1:15:37 | 1:15:39 | |
MUSIC: "I'll Slip Away" by Rodriguez | 1:15:44 | 1:15:47 | |
# And I forget about the girl that said no | 1:15:57 | 1:16:02 | |
# Then I'll tell who I want where to go | 1:16:02 | 1:16:07 | |
# And I'll forget about your lies and deceit | 1:16:07 | 1:16:12 | |
# And your attempts to be so discreet | 1:16:12 | 1:16:16 | |
# Maybe today Yeah | 1:16:16 | 1:16:21 | |
# I'll slip away | 1:16:21 | 1:16:23 | |
# And you can keep your symbols of success | 1:16:25 | 1:16:30 | |
# Then I'll pursue my own happiness | 1:16:30 | 1:16:35 | |
# And you can keep your clocks and routines... # | 1:16:35 | 1:16:38 | |
You know, when I think about that night | 1:16:38 | 1:16:40 | |
when I spoke to Eva on the telephone, | 1:16:40 | 1:16:41 | |
we could not have imagined how much our lives were going to change | 1:16:41 | 1:16:45 | |
after that phone call. | 1:16:45 | 1:16:47 | |
Eva came on tour with Rodriguez | 1:16:47 | 1:16:48 | |
and the organizers arranged a chaperone bodyguard | 1:16:48 | 1:16:51 | |
to drive them around and they fell in love. | 1:16:51 | 1:16:54 | |
And they have a child. | 1:16:54 | 1:16:55 | |
So Rodriguez has a South African grandson, | 1:16:55 | 1:16:58 | |
a South African grandchild. | 1:16:58 | 1:17:00 | |
For me, I used to be a jeweller in Johannesburg. | 1:17:00 | 1:17:03 | |
I now live in Cape Town and have a music store. | 1:17:03 | 1:17:05 | |
Things changed so much for us. | 1:17:05 | 1:17:08 | |
But, except for one person, and that's Rodriguez. | 1:17:08 | 1:17:11 | |
For him, nothing has changed. | 1:17:11 | 1:17:13 | |
The life that he was living is still the life that he's living now. | 1:17:13 | 1:17:16 | |
What he's demonstrated very clearly is that you have a choice. | 1:17:16 | 1:17:20 | |
He took all that torment, all that agony, | 1:17:20 | 1:17:23 | |
all that confusion and pain, | 1:17:23 | 1:17:25 | |
and he transformed it into something beautiful. | 1:17:25 | 1:17:29 | |
He's like the silk worm, you know? | 1:17:29 | 1:17:31 | |
You take this raw material and you transform it. | 1:17:31 | 1:17:36 | |
And you come out with something that wasn't there before. | 1:17:36 | 1:17:39 | |
Something beautiful. | 1:17:39 | 1:17:41 | |
Something perhaps transcendent. Something perhaps eternal. | 1:17:41 | 1:17:44 | |
Insofar as he does that, | 1:17:44 | 1:17:46 | |
I think he's representative of the human spirit, of what's possible. | 1:17:46 | 1:17:51 | |
That you have a choice. "And this has been my choice, | 1:17:51 | 1:17:55 | |
"to give you Sugar Man". Now, have you done that? Ask yourself. | 1:17:55 | 1:17:59 | |
MUSIC: "Crucify Your Mind" by Rodriguez | 1:17:59 | 1:18:02 | |
# Was it a huntsman or a player That made you pay the cost | 1:18:02 | 1:18:06 | |
# That now assumes relaxed positions | 1:18:06 | 1:18:09 | |
# And prostitutes your loss? | 1:18:09 | 1:18:12 | |
# Were you tortured by your own thirst | 1:18:12 | 1:18:14 | |
# In those pleasures that you seek | 1:18:14 | 1:18:17 | |
# That made you Tom the Curious | 1:18:17 | 1:18:20 | |
# That makes you James the Weak? | 1:18:20 | 1:18:22 | |
# But you claim you've got something going | 1:18:33 | 1:18:37 | |
# Something you call unique | 1:18:39 | 1:18:42 | |
# But I've seen your self-pity showing | 1:18:45 | 1:18:48 | |
# As the tears roll down your cheeks | 1:18:50 | 1:18:54 | |
# Soon you know I'll leave you | 1:19:04 | 1:19:06 | |
# And I'll never look behind | 1:19:06 | 1:19:09 | |
# Cos I was born for the purpose | 1:19:09 | 1:19:12 | |
# That crucifies your mind | 1:19:12 | 1:19:14 | |
# So con, convince your mirror | 1:19:14 | 1:19:17 | |
# As you've always done before | 1:19:17 | 1:19:20 | |
# Giving substance to shadows | 1:19:20 | 1:19:22 | |
# Giving substance ever more | 1:19:22 | 1:19:25 | |
# And you assume you got something to offer | 1:19:35 | 1:19:39 | |
# Secrets shiny and new | 1:19:42 | 1:19:44 | |
# But how much of you is repetition | 1:19:47 | 1:19:50 | |
# That you didn't whisper to him too. # | 1:19:53 | 1:19:55 |