Rivals Talking Tennis

-UMPIRE:

-Quiet, please.

That's it!

A fabulous match, a really fabulous match,

and I believe it's one of the greatest,

if not the greatest match I've ever seen at Wimbledon.

Wimbledon, the world's greatest tennis tournament.

And the setting for some of the sport's most unforgettable moments.

For British tennis fans, it's the green, green grass of home,

and for two weeks every summer, a national obsession.

Over the years, we've been on the edge of our seats,

glued to the television watching legend after legend battle it out,

shot by shot, point by point,

fist pump by fist pump,

in a quest for the ultimate victory on Centre Court.

And over the decades, part of the thrill of watching Wimbledon

has been witnessing its great rivalries.

Today, we're looking at some of the tournament's most titanic pairings.

They are classic, head-to-head, angels v demons clashes.

They've all helped to make the game a great gladiatorial spectacle

as they've pushed each other to the limit, physically and mentally.

Playing semifinals and finals, mind games and grudge matches.

Ooh, you just can't beat a good tennis rivalry.

We're starting back in the '70s and '80s,

with what is for many one of the greatest rivalries

any sport has ever seen.

Chris Evert and Martina Navratilova.

For 16 years, they traded the women's number one position

but it was Chris Evert who hit the circuit first

and here she is in 1974, aged 19,

discussing the will to win that would make her so hard to beat.

If I beat someone I'm supposed to beat,

who maybe is a lesser player then I feel good,

but when I beat someone I'm not supposed to beat

like Billie Jean King or Margaret Court,

then it's just the greatest feeling because...

..I feel not only I'm happy but my whole family

and all my friends are happy too and what makes them happy...

When you're playing against an opponent on the court, you know,

and there's a real struggle on, do you hate her?

No, it's hard.

Some opponents you want to beat more than others.

Why?

Just because of their attitude.

If you think their attitude is, you know, beat this girl and...

But if your opponent really, you can sense they respect your game

and they wouldn't mind losing to you, then it isn't that hard

to take if you do lose.

A few years after that, Martina Navratilova entered the stage

with a style of play very different to Chrissie Evert's

and as far as the fans were concerned, you were either

for Chrissie or for Martina,

and, having been married to an English man,

most of the fans at Wimbledon anyway, were for Chrissie.

They were apparently chalk and cheese

but they went on to win two doubles Grand Slams together

and off-court, it was all very friendly between them.

How do you all get on in the locker room, the changing room,

are the knives out?

Are you all bitches to each other, catty, or what?

Oh, of course not.

No, actually we're very, very competitive on the court,

you know, we want to really beat each other on the court

but the girls are all pretty mature in that respect.

Once the match is over, they go up into the locker room and everybody,

most of the girls are good friends.

You know, we're watching TV, we're commenting on the players,

or we're playing Scrabble or doing crossword puzzles.

It's like a sorority.

Over their careers, they played each other a remarkable 80 times.

Navratilova won 43 of those clashes.

Evert, 37.

The rivalry was something they cherished

and even when a new generation pushed through in the '80s,

for Chris, it was always all about Martina.

It's tough, I feel threatened because I know how it feels

at 15 or 16 years old to play a top player.

I mean, I was in that position when I was younger,

I would play Margaret Court or Billie Jean King

and I know how they feel out there.

They're loose, they feel no pressure at all,

they just go for their shots.

They feel no nerves and that's dangerous.

If they win, it's a big upset.

If they lose, they probably think well, I've got ten years to go,

hopefully I'll beat her eventually.

I feel very threatened by a lot of these players,

Steffi Graf has taken me to three sets,

Sabatini has taken me to three sets.

Maleeva has taken me to three sets,

so I've struggled with a lot of these players that are left

and that's why on the court I know they're tough

but psychologically it's not the same, you know,

playing them, as Martina.

The bulk of when I was dominating

was at the same time with Chris and for

so many years one of us was number one and the other was number two,

so we were at the top of our game at the same time,

so two of the all-time greats playing against each other

and you really are only as good as your opposition in tennis,

particularly, because you depend on the opponent

to hit you great shots so that you have to hit your great shots back.

You're only as good as your opponent,

so we really did bring out the best in each other.

We always respected each other and there was a lot of dignity,

a lot of fair play and, er,

we were always like Chris said, after the match,

one of us would be consoling the other,

we were always very empathetic to each other and that's nice.

It was nice, but not always easy, especially for Chris,

as Martina discusses here with another great, Billie Jean King.

I mean, she was a big star when I first came on the tour,

so I was just happy that she said hello to me,

but then we played doubles together, actually won here in '76

and we were pretty close, and

then when I started beating Chris,

then she pulled back a little bit.

She had a harder time handling it and then I realised if I want to be

number one, I have to beat Chris.

She's the one. So there was a little bit of tension for a couple of years

but then we got close again and we still stay in touch, and yes,

we have so many memories that only the two of us can share and it was

weird because one's joy was always at the expense of the other.

One of us was happy as heck and the other was miserable,

but we always had that empathy for each other and respect.

Chris couldn't get close when she was competing.

In fact, she said to me, "Billie, we can't be friends right now.

"I just can't play you."

But that was great because it's great when you get that honesty.

I said, "OK, Chris, I hear you,

"we'll be friends when we finish our careers.

"When I finish my career, because I'm going to be first,

"and we'll be friends" and we had that agreement,

so I really tried to give her her space, especially at tournaments.

When we were away from tournaments, we could be more friendly,

but once I came to a tournament I really tried to give her her space

because she was very clear and she needed that

to be able to compete against you.

That's what you were saying, it happened to you as well.

She couldn't handle it if she tried to be friends, she couldn't do it,

and she was very honest about it which I thought was great.

Chris Evert was beaten in all of the five Wimbledon singles finals that

she played against Navratilova.

She usually kept her cool,

but when players regularly struggle against one particular opponent,

they can turn any match into a grudge match

simply by getting frustrated and angry.

Angry with themselves, angry with their big rival,

angry with everything.

Most of us are aggressive.

Jimmy Connors, even though he's a baseline player,

is a very aggressive player,

the way he hits the ball and I don't think any one of us,

you talk to John McEnroe or Kathy Jordan or myself or any of us,

we're not proud of it by any means, but we also are this way.

Our genetic pool made us this way,

maybe the environment we were around growing up, I don't know,

but I'm not delighted about when I used to get upset

with the umpire, or whatever.

You can't do that.

We have a service line.

-UMPIRE:

-Second service.

Billie Jean King mentioned Jimmy Connors there,

himself one of the greats and a double Wimbledon winner in 1974

and again, eight years later, in 1982.

Over a long career he had several big rivalries, with John McEnroe,

Bjorn Borg and the late Arthur Ashe,

the only black man to win the Wimbledon title,

famously beating Connors in the 1975 final.

And they definitely weren't friends.

Before that famous match,

Ashe had called Connors unpatriotic for refusing to play

in America's Davis Cup team.

In return, Connors sued for libel,

demanding millions of dollars in damages.

He dropped his action after losing the game.

But theirs remained a truly bitter rivalry.

It's no secret that you aren't the best of friends off the court.

Does this affect the game at all in any way?

No, I don't think about it one way or the other.

And the impending lawsuit didn't cross your mind at all?

Well, the lawsuit has never crossed my mind because the lawsuit has

about a one in a million chance of going his way.

What did Connors say to you when you beat him at the end?

-He didn't say anything.

-Did that surprise you?

No. I didn't say anything either.

-Why not?

-What can I say?

I just shook his hand and walked off.

Connors was a scrapper.

He would attack his opponents with a style of play politely described as

angry, aggressive and intimidating.

Sound familiar? Yep!

He and John McEnroe were two of a kind.

And if you were talking to one,

you'd usually ask him about the other.

Did you ever use that kind of, as you say, that brashness,

that extraordinary aggression which you epitomise perhaps more than

anybody on the tennis court, do you ever use it to put off an opponent?

It was never used to put anybody off, that was just my style.

You never used it to irritate McEnroe, for instance?

I thought you used to send up poor old McEnroe something terrible.

You probably still do.

We've had some controversy over the years in our matches and

we've actually played about 32 times and every match that we have

is exciting for me, but it always brings out the best in both of us,

-which is great.

-Yeah, but it looks as if you hate each other,

with a deep and abiding hatred.

Well, I've lived my career that way, feeling that way.

-Hating the opponent?

-Yes, only for that time, though.

My tennis never went beyond the tennis courts.

I get upset when I've lost and react accordingly,

but I never took my tennis home with me,

as far as living the match over and over.

I'd get upset, don't get me wrong, I did do that,

but I would never take my aggressions out on my family.

It stopped at the tennis.

I didn't want to go back and relive that time,

whether I won or whether I lost,

it was over and I had to play another day.

There's a big thing made about there being a good loser.

You're a rotten loser, aren't you?

Well, I'm going to agree with that.

I hate to lose more than I like to win,

and because of that attitude I try to give it that one little extra

or whatever it takes to try to ward off those losses, and

being a good loser, it's easy to be a good loser if it happens often.

You get plenty of practice.

You get plenty of practice, that's right,

and it's a trap that I never really wanted to fall into

and I'm sure nobody wants to get used to.

When you're in the locker room with say McEnroe before a big match,

do you do a lot of talking together, or do you snarl at each other?

There's not much talking really,

it's a very... It's not a sombre time

but it's a quiet time to really collect your thoughts and figure out

what you're going to do once you're out on the court.

I think more or less when I was younger it was more of,

"You take your corner, I'll take my corner,

"and then we'll meet on the court and do battle."

Now it's a little bit different.

A lot of people think that McEnroe and I don't have a rapport

or a friendship, which is wrong.

We do, away from the tennis.

But it's very difficult to be friends with men and boys

that you're competing against.

And here is one of the boys that Connors was competing against.

Well, McEnroe is actually 21 here

but this is his first proper sit down interview with the BBC,

from 1980.

His antics had already earned him the nickname Superbrat,

but this exchange comes after a period of relative calm,

and here he seems to be saying that his famous tantrums

were a thing of the past.

Well, here I am, it's been really pleasant the last week or whatever

just playing the tournament and not having to get up every morning

and read the front page or the back page and seeing your name

and the bad things written about it.

It's nice just to go out there and do what you're supposed to

be doing, whatever and not have to worry about those...

It was so uncomfortable just walking around and every paper,

there's papers all over the place

and that's what made it really uncomfortable.

I mean, it's definitely partially my own fault but I thought

I was really unfairly treated and now they are treating me fine.

How do you feel that you contributed to this?

What part of it was your own fault?

Well, the fact that, like, I always grew up believing

that if there was something wrong you should argue,

you shouldn't just forget about it.

I mean, when you see like a bad call, you shouldn't go,

"Well, that's a bad call" and not think about it,

you go up there and say, that ball was in or out or whatever.

That was just the way I reacted and the way I reacted was a lot more

forceful than another person going up there, "Did you see?"

And I'll go, "That ball was like definitely..."

I'll be really a lot louder I guess about it.

It wasn't appreciated too often.

So you've consciously tuned that part of your court reaction down?

I try, just because I wasn't feeling comfortable here

and I know I'm going to be back here for quite a few more years

and I don't want to come here every year,

even if I feel like that was the right way to do it, you know,

I still feel you have a right to argue the call but if that's not...

They don't want to see you stalling.

If they think you're stalling, even if you're not,

so I want to be back here a lot of times

and I don't want it to be like that all the time.

Do you ever get bored with playing tennis?

I get bored, I get tired.

I mean, just travelling around the world and the amount I've played

the last few years, it really gets you tired sometimes.

And when you play a tough match or whatever and it's close

you have a tendency to... Your mind just goes off and wanders

in a different place and all of a sudden,

you're not playing the game that you should be playing.

That's happened to me a couple of times this year.

You said that you earned £1.5 million last year.

-No, I didn't say that.

-You've been quoted as saying that.

I've never been quoted as saying that. That's totally untrue.

Is this because you don't want to say how much you earned last year

or just the figure is wrong?

The figure's wrong and I wouldn't really want to say it either.

-The figure's more, let me just tell you that.

-The figure is more?

-A lot more.

-But do you regard that as money that was easily earned?

Again, you were quoted as saying you were surprised how easy it was.

I think it's easy in the sense that you go to a person who works 9 to 5

every day for five days a week or whatever and earns 20, 30,000

and then you turn around

and I'm playing tennis and I'm making all this money.

I mean, I know it's, like, I worked hard for it,

I know I travel all around the world to get it,

but I know that it's pretty much like an outrageous sum of money.

But, I mean, if there is a lot of people that want to watch it

and a lot of people pay you to wear their clothes

or use their racket and stuff like that.

If there are going to do that, you don't say,

"No thanks, I'll do it for free."

So when you play, are you playing because of the money

or because the public is there or because of yourself?

Well, when I was ten or whatever, there was no money in tennis.

When I first started playing at eight or nine or ten, I mean,

it was just when open tennis started so I never thought about it then.

Now, I mean... You get to the...

When you get you want... My parents always wanted me...

All they wanted me to do was go to college and play Davis Cup.

That was it. I mean, there's no money in that.

So then when I started playing and all this money starts coming in,

I mean, obviously you go, "It's nice to win this."

But you realise it's more important to win...

You realise within yourself that it's more important

to win the bigger tournaments and that's what you want to do.

If you win Wimbledon you'll get a lot of money anyway.

That's not why you want to win Wimbledon?

I want to win a Wimbledon because when I was a kid,

the ultimate thing is I looked up to Rod Laver

because he won the Grand Slam and he was my idol and because...

Not because... I never had any idea how much money those guys made.

I mean, money had nothing to do with it.

I don't know exactly how much, you know, Borg makes, or Connors.

And they don't know how much I make.

If you weren't a tennis player what would you have liked to have been?

A rock and roll star.

-Do you have any musical talent?

-No.

Despite the good intentions expressed there,

Super Mac, the super brat,

didn't manage to stay out of trouble,

picking up fines and warnings every year for the next decade.

No surprise, really. And it made it all a lot more fun.

That year, 1980, he lost in the final against Borg.

In '81, McEnroe got his revenge and beat Borg.

'82 saw a great Connors comeback and he beat McEnroe.

Three of the best ever, three interlinked rivalries.

We had a triangle that was really something special in the sport

and to have had a rivalry with one is something.

And I had one with two.

By far and away my two greatest rivals were Jimmy and Bjorn.

-CONNORS:

-Borg and McEnroe.

We certainly went at it for many years.

If I came up with one great point John came up with a better point.

It was always like this.

-CONNORS:

-We had rivalries which meant something.

-BORG:

-Every single point was like a match point for Jimmy.

To beat Jimmy you had to play your best game.

-CONNORS:

-The rivalries were real.

-MCENROE:

-But there's a respect.

-Exactly.

They were my three that I wanted to be like when I was growing up,

the three I admired the most.

I mean, certainly Bjorn Borg for his coolness and has calmness

because I was always hot tempered.

So to look at him and go, "Wow, how does he do that?"

And then Jimmy Connors, just the way he fought and competed every point.

You know, he's a little guy who used to run everything down and fight.

And McEnroe's style of play,

his attacking style, was what I wanted to play like.

-They were legends.

-They had an aura about them.

Borg was known as the Ice Man -

always supercool.

As we've seen, Connors and McEnroe could easily explode.

Letting off steam, yes, but also, perhaps,

putting their opponents off their game.

But blowing your top isn't the only way to try and get one over a rival.

Here's British hero Fred Perry, no less,

on the advantages of getting a sneaky bit of inside info.

I was on the massage table and I said to the masseur...

Er, you know. He said, "You're in great shape.

I said, "Am I?" He said, "You're in great shape."

And I said, "Well, I have to be today."

He said, "What makes you think so?"

I said, "I've got a rough match today."

Because this was very important to me, not only for the third time,

because of the professional angle too.

Because in those days you were all amateur and if you won Wimbledon

once or twice you'd turn pro quickly

because that was where the money was.

So, er, he said, "Oh, no.

"He's got a cramp right now."

So I said, "Well, you wouldn't happen

"to know where it was, would you?" So, he said, "Well, no.

"I can't tell you that but he's going to have a lot of trouble

"stretching wide to the right."

I was a great believer in, if you get the man down, you stamp on him.

You never give a man a second chance if you can avoid it.

Because he wouldn't give you one either.

And if you've got him on the ropes

then you make sure that he stays there.

But if you aren't friends with the masseuse,

don't care to swear and have a temper that's tiny,

you can always try the most controversial

and irritating distraction tactic...

..grunting.

LOUD GRUNT

You can screech all you want in-between the shots,

but when you're hitting the ball I need to hear the ball hit the racket

cos you see the ball according to how it hits the racket first.

So you're depending on the sound.

But when you hear it then you react to how the ball is coming to you.

I think they need to outlaw the grunting. It's very simple.

Roger Federer doesn't make any noise when he's playing.

Famous exponents of the art of grunting include Connors...

GRUNTS

Rafa Nadal.

GRUNTS

Maria Sharapova.

GRUNTS

Serena Williams.

-GRUNTS

-Come on!

Nice.

Andre Agassi.

GRUNTS

And, perhaps most famously...

GRUNTS

Monica Seles.

I don't like it when Monica was too loud,

when she was at Wimbledon that one year.

In fact, Nathalie Tauziat, the French player,

this year at the Open asked me,

"Do you think Maria is louder than Monica?"

I'm like, "It's a toss up.

"I think, overall, Maria's louder

"but at that particular Wimbledon I think Monica was as loud."

LOUD GRUNTING

I think it was 1992 Wimbledon,

I definitely got a lot of publicity for it

and after that it kind of took on a life of its own.

And when they had the grunt-o-meters and all that stuff,

but if anybody had seen me in the juniors since age seven,

they'd see I grunted the same way

and there are thousands of other girls who grunt.

And right now, of course, I'm in the lower decibels

compared to the girls at this stage.

Monica Seles was half of one of the biggest tennis rivalries

of the late '80s and '90s.

Her nemesis - Steffi Graf.

For a while it looked as though they would go on to match the intensity

of Evert and Navratilova.

They had played each other 15 times, Graf winning ten.

But in 1993, it was Seles who was ranked as world number one and who

seemed to be emerging as the more dominant force.

Then the truly shocking happened.

The world's leading woman tennis player, Monica Seles,

has been stabbed with a knife

by a spectator at a tournament in Germany.

During a game in Hamburg, a crazed fan of Graf's,

obsessed with Steffi regaining the top spot,

stabbed Seles in the back.

She took a two-year break from tennis but her form,

unsurprisingly, never truly recovered.

Her attacker only received a two-year suspended sentence.

The day before you were worried

about getting ready for the French Open

and that's what was in your mind,

and now you're getting ready that someone's wanted to take your career

away, or trying to kill you.

So one extreme to the other and you realise that,

"Wow, the sport can be taken away in one minute of your life,

"everything can change." So there was a lot of differences

as to what was going on in my mind.

Everything is on camera.

It's a very straightforward case.

A gentleman comes from behind, stabs me,

a 19-year-old girl sitting during a tennis match and it's all on video.

I mean, there's no argument and he admits it.

I think that's a simple case.

So I decided to move on and the choice that I made,

I'm very happy about it.

You know, there's nothing to ask anyone for advice or go back to,

"What should I do now?"

The peak of the Seles-Graf rivalry

coincided with another of the great rivalries of the men's game.

Pistol Pete Sampras versus Andre Agassi.

A clash of styles and temperament.

Agassi was the wild child.

Sampras was businesslike and clinically efficient.

Those qualities saw him win,

not only 20 of the 34 encounters he had with Agassi,

but also seven Wimbledon singles titles.

But despite Pistol Pete's vaguely exciting-sounding nickname,

many found his serve and serve style of play...

Well, just a bit boring.

I think the transition from McEnroe and Connors to myself

and those guys, you know, those guys are so outspoken

to me being very introverted.

I mean, it was an easy out to kind of talk about me

was that I was boring and so I always look back at it

and kind of never understand it.

I didn't waste energy arguing with people or umpires.

I didn't want to show my opponent what I was doing, how I was feeling.

It was smart and just the way I was.

You know, I remember playing a doubles match

with John McEnroe in the Davis cup.

And you could talk about Jekyll and Hyde here.

He was so emotional

and I was just drained sitting next to him.

I mean, Jesus, just shut up there for a minute.

He was complaining about line calls from ten minutes ago.

I said, "John, what are you doing here?"

And he'd tell me, "I'm exhausted here" and I couldn't imagine

playing my career like that and just the highs and lows of that emotion.

And that's why I was able to stay on top for as long as I did

and win a number of Majors was because I was in control.

You know, people say lighten up.

And I really took offence to the "lighten up" part out there.

I mean, I'm out there to kick ass and take names.

I'm not out here to make friends.

There's a lot of parents that come up to me today that say,

"You're great for my kid.

"I love the fact that you acted the way you did because you,

"compared to McEnroe and Connors,

"you're not a brat and you did play great tennis

"and you did it with a certain class that I try to show my child."

And that means more to me

than a great article or cover story or whatever.

I mean, that feels like I'm affecting someone's life

in a positive way.

By the early 2000s, Sampras's reign was coming to an end.

Shortly afterwards, Roger Federer replaced him at the top,

and he's never been called boring.

Smooth, effortless, suave,

perfectly balanced, athletic, poised.

This is how the Swiss superstar's game was described from the start.

Here's an interview from back in 2003.

Roger had just beaten Mark Philippoussis

to win his first Wimbledon.

But, back then, Sampras, with 14 Grand Slams in his kitbag,

still cast a giant shadow over the men's game.

I mean, it's well documented

that Sampras in effect was your inspiration, wasn't he,

to take the game up, to take it to the levels that you have taken it?

What, beyond the sheer scale of his 14 Grand Slams,

do you admire about Pete Sampras?

You know, I think he has got just unbelievable serve.

People underestimate it because he's got such a great all-round game,

plus his personality is rather relaxed and cool.

He seems like he doesn't want to almost stand in the limelight.

That's how it looked like anyway.

But I think he went through a lot of periods of tennis, had great rivals,

rivalries with Becker and Edberg and Agassi.

He had them all. So I think, you know,

he's the guy with the most experience around.

You weren't surprised

when he announced his retirement at Flushing Meadows?

-I was a little bit.

-Were you?

-Yes.

I thought he would come back one more time to...

-To defend his title, at least?

-No, not at the US Open.

-To Wimbledon.

-Really?

I thought he...

I don't know, two Swiss guys beating him in a row.

Doesn't taste good for him.

-But, you know, that's his decision.

-Of course, of course.

The key, I think, to your popularity,

certainly in Britain and doubtless around the world,

is the style with which you play.

We've been used to serve, volley and now there's a debate about

the metronomic rhythms of the clay court game,

but your game clearly is an all-round game.

Let me throw a few quotes at you.

Boris Becker described you as "poetry in motion."

McEnroe said a player like yourself

comes along once every ten or 20 years.

Your stroke play has been described as artistry.

I mean, these are vast compliments.

Do you recognise yourself when you're described like that?

Phew! You know, you can get a little confidence,

maybe too much, you know. But it's always nice to hear...

It can be overwhelming.

Yes, it can be. You know, I've heard, actually

not compliments like this in the past, but,

"Oh, this guy, he can make it.

"He's got everything it takes to win a slam and all this."

So I've heard a lot of it, you know.

I always just try to say, "Listen, I hope I can live up to all

"these things," but, I have to say, Wimbledon, it was magic for me

and the way I played in the semis and the final.

Erm, it's obviously very nice to hear.

As Roger was celebrating his first Wimbledon win,

the women's game was witnessing a phenomenon that we're now used to,

but which at the time seemed extraordinary -

the sibling rivalry of the Williams sisters.

At first older sister, Venus, dominated.

But since as long ago as 2002,

Serena has had the edge over her sister

and almost everyone else.

The sisters would say they didn't enjoy going head-to-head,

and critics complained it was all too obvious that they didn't relish

their contests, even accusing them of lacking passion.

But in this interview with Jonathan Ross from 2007, Serena seems

perfectly happy at the prospect of overtaking Venus's then larger haul

of Wimbledon trophies.

-Your sister's coming over.

-Yes, she's already here.

We flew over so we're both here.

-You're playing doubles together?

-We're playing doubles.

Is she going to be in the singles?

Yes, she's playing singles. Hopefully I won't have to play her.

How competitive are you?

Because I think she's won Wimbledon three times, am I right?

I know, and it sucks because I had a chance to win the third time

and I kind of choked.

She's one up against me so I'm going to catch up.

I don't care when, why or how,

I'm going to get at least three or four soon because she's ahead of me

right now and I'm, like, the little sister, I want everything she has.

When your mum and dad are watching you guys play against each other,

as they have any number of times, who do they root for?

I have no idea. I couldn't do it. My parents are amazing.

I think they root for whoever's down.

If we're tied they're neutral but whoever's down they root for them.

Because I was thinking,

I was watching them one time when you guys were playing and I can't

remember who won that year and they just sort of stood up and went...

Because whoever loses, it doesn't really matter.

They're going home with the winner and the loser.

They were kind of like, "Yeah, good match. Let's get a sandwich."

-Exactly.

-It wasn't the normal elation.

Yeah, we both love it and my parents, honestly,

I couldn't do it. It's too hard for me.

Do the two of you ever let yourself go completely?

You have to be physically at the top of your game

but are you allowed just to pig out?

Do you ever say, "We're not going to work all this week.

"We're going to get lots of Bette Midler movies and lots of chocolate,

"watch Beaches four times in a row."

You know, Venus and I are really concerned about staying fit

and staying healthy and living the fit and healthy life

because a lot of people, especially in the United States,

are not healthy and it hurts their heart and affects their heart,

so we are actually over the top.

We never want to become unfit and unhealthy.

-You never going to let yourself go?

-No, I don't want to.

I mean, maybe a day but never a week.

How much time do you spend, the two of you, working out?

-How much time do you spend training?

-It's a lot of work.

One time I thought about it. It's like a nine to five.

I wake up at nine, I go train for two hours.

After that, I go to the gym for a couple of hours

and I do another workout and then

by the time I get home, it's like four or five o'clock

and I'm thinking, "This is like a regular job."

But my job is to stay in shape and to go to the gym and to play tennis.

-So that's how I look at it.

-I think this is the first year here at

Wimbledon that the prize money for women is the same as it is for men.

-Isn't that great?

-That is quite something.

-It's awesome.

It's been a long while coming.

You know what? It has been a long time. I know in the US Open,

it started in 1970 something, please don't quote me.

But in the '70s, they offered equal prize money to women

when Billie Jean King and other women stood up for themselves

and they said we are not to accept this, we want equal prize money.

And now it's 2007, 30, 40 years later.

It's a long time but we've come a long way and I think we deserve it,

personally, because, like I said in my interviews,

when I was three and four years old

I worked just as hard as Roger Federer

as Rafael Nadal, as all the men players.

You know, I was out there, I missed things that I couldn't do.

There were so many things that I did, I play tennis,

so why wouldn't I deserve the same amount they're getting?

You went on the same journey as them and I don't think any less people

-want to watch the woman playing than the men.

-Absolutely.

As a fan of the game, obviously I like looking at ladies,

but just the way the game is played.

Sometimes you see a greater level of skill

and better shots and a better tactics in that game than the men's.

Sometimes, yeah. I mean, I love watching the women playing.

It's actually my favourite to watch.

Let me ask you about whether or not,

if you do get back to being number one, how do you stay there?

Because you've been number one in the game a number of times.

Being number one...

Getting there is the easy job.

I think the hard part is staying there because everyone wants to play

you tough and beat the number one player

and so I think when you get there

you have to work harder than what you did to get there.

Do you have any kind of superstitious aspect to your game?

Do you have any rituals before you go out,

anything you want to carry out to the game?

I have too many superstitious rituals and it's annoying because,

it's like I have to do it and if I don't I'll lose.

And I'm not losing because I didn't play well,

I lost because I didn't tie my shoe the right way and it's totally

ridiculous because you know...

I have to use the same shower, use the same sandals,

travel with the same bags.

I don't know if you ever watch me, but I bounce the ball five times.

Every time? Every time before you serve?

My first serve and twice on the second.

-It's important you get that.

-That's for you, not for the other player?

-And it's not to put them off a little bit?

-No, it's just for me.

And it's just annoying.

How can I be thinking about this and playing at the same time?

Whilst the Williams sisters have had a remarkable hold over the recent

women's game, things haven't been so clear cut in the men's game.

Because, just as in the halcyon days of Connors, Borg and McEnroe,

there have been three, not two, players fighting for supremacy.

We've already heard from Roger Federer.

The other two - Rafa Nadal and Novak Djokovic.

Together, in terms of Grand Slam titles,

this trio were locked in battle for over a decade.

Roger, so elegant.

Novak, possibly the greatest returner of serve ever.

And Rafa, the king of clay.

Supremely athletic and supremely intimidating.

Too intimidating.

Well, let's see what he once said about that,

and his relationship with Roger, in conversation with Rob Bonnet.

Let's talk a little bit about your playing style.

I mean it's very physical, isn't it?

Some people would even say it was intimidating.

How would you describe it?

No, I don't think...

Everybody speaks about the physical,

but I feel like everybody is very

good in physical performance on tour.

Sure, I have a good physical performance but

my style, maybe it was more physical three years ago than right now.

So every year, I am improving a little bit more at tennis

and I don't have to use that physical.

There are suggestions on the tennis circuit that there is a kind of

psychological intimidation that goes on in your game.

Let me quote you something from

Leyton Hewitt's former coach, Roger Rashid.

He told the Daily Express newspaper in London that,

"In the locker room Rafa is very intense.

"He's always running around

"and trying to apply the intimidation factor.

"The referee can come in and say, 'We're ready to play,'

"but sure enough, he just had to go to the toilet one more time

"and then sits there making his opponent wait for another minute."

I mean, you're aware that there are a number of allegations

from coaches, from other players, from the press

that you spend a lot of time, wasting time.

I like to go out on court 100%

so I have a good warm up and

I run, I...

everything, I jump but not for intimidate.

-No?

-I only think about me.

Sure, 100%.

I mean, do you deliberately make opponents wait on the court?

No, I don't.

But I always arrive a little bit late

so I have to improve that, I know.

Not only on court, I have to improve that in all my life.

Why does it happen though?

Because you have a number of mannerisms, don't you?

You bounce the ball a lot of times, you fiddle with your clothing.

There's a whole routine you go through,

which very often goes beyond the 20 seconds

which is allowed between points.

There's going to be changes in this year.

-Oh, you're promising us that, are you?

-I promise, yes.

So you're conscious that it's a problem with you?

Yes, I'm going to pull out some things.

Let's talk a little bit, because I suppose we must do,

about Federer. Are you waiting for him to retire before you can

become the world number one?

-No.

-No?

-Absolutely not.

I'm very happy to be number two, I'm very happy about my results.

I'm very happy about being the rival of him for the last years.

My rival is probably the best in history.

Being involved in this rivalry

against the best in history is a very nice with me too.

Well, your rivalry with Federer

is one of the great rivalries of tennis,

it's up there alongside Evert and Navratilova,

alongside Borg and McEnroe.

But for all the generosity that you've shown Federer

and acknowledgement of his talents don't you, nevertheless,

have to hate him a bit to beat him?

-No?

-No. I respect him a lot.

He's a very nice guy. We have a very good relationship.

But that's the problem, isn't it? If you like him too much,

-it becomes difficult to beat him.

-I don't think.

-No?

-I'm a very competitive guy but I know that it's only a game.

And...

Outside of the court, everything can be 100% fine

because it's only a game and we're normal guys.

-So for that reason we have a normal relationship.

-Yes.

So if I am on court I am going to do everything for a win

and I fight every tournament to try to be better than him.

And always it's very good to have a reference on him

for to be a better player.

I have Roger number one,

number two always is good

because you know you have to improve a lot of things.

If I am not the number one it's not because I have a good relationship

with him. It's because he is better than the rest.

But of course the difficulties came in 2007 at Wimbledon.

You got to the final and were beaten in a very dramatic five-setter

in the final by Federer, weren't you?

There were some pretty dark moments,

I think, for you in the locker room afterwards.

-Tell us about that?

-Yes, there was tough moments.

It was the second final in a row for me

in Wimbledon.

The first one was fine, you lose against the number one,

three-time champion.

But the second one, I arrived there with different expectations.

When I have the trophy, everything on court,

I am fine there, but when I go to the locker room it was tough for me.

I lost the second final, I lost with good chances to win.

For me it is a dream to win Wimbledon and it was a tough moment.

All the time, maybe the last years when I was crying a little bit.

Quite a lot, in fact.

You were desperately unhappy, for some 20, 25 minutes.

Was it the worst moment in your career?

-No.

-No?

-No, because I play the final of Wimbledon.

-Oh, OK.

Yeah, rub it in, Rob, why don't you?

But Rafa's revenge came in 2008.

The longest, and for many the best Wimbledon final ever,

which saw the Majorcan end Federer's runs of five consecutive titles in a

whopping four hours and 48 minutes.

Let's finish with the final member of the tennis triumvirate,

Novak Djokovic, speaking here before the 2014 Wimbledon final

against Roger Federer.

It's a final step at the biggest event

and there's a lot on the line and you're reaching the climax

of course, the emotions and the expectations and excitement

and all these different emotions go through your mind.

And it's important to try to handle that in the best possible way,

cope with it and stay composed and in control.

And I think whoever manages to do that will get a win.

I think we've just seen one of the greatest returns of all time.

When did you first see Wimbledon? When were you first aware of it?

-What age?

-I think I was five years old.

I watched Pete Sampras win his first or second Wimbledon trophy

and it's an imagine stuck in my mind since early childhood days

and this tournament has a very special place in my heart.

There is a new champion at Wimbledon - Novak Djokovic.

What does it take to beat Roger Federer on a grass court?

It takes one man to have a very good day,

game-wise and mentally to be very solid, very strong throughout

the whole match and I just believe that you can win.

That's easier said than done.

Obviously we all know how good Roger's record is on grass.

On the other hand,

this is my third Wimbledon final and I look forward to it.

It's a great challenge playing somebody like Roger

in the finals and I couldn't ask for a bigger challenge at this moment.

Oh, yes. Match point, Djokovic.

That is frightening. Top seed here and playing like it.

You are the top seed here.

You've won six Grand Slams

and yet there are some people that would say you have something

to prove because of the recent record in Grand Slam finals.

I mean, do you feel any of that pressure?

Well, pressure is always present

and I've had so far a very successful career

and of course I'm content with everything I've achieved,

but I still feel there are years to come in front of me.

But right now I have to think about the present moment and enjoy this

Grand Slam final and try to get a trophy.

Novak did get the trophy on that occasion,

and he may well get a few more

unless the last person to beat him at Wimbledon gets in his way again.

Andy Murray -

whose many final head-to-heads with Djokovic make theirs

the latest big tennis rivalry - will be desperate to stop the Serb.

And if he beats him at Wimbledon,

Murray will be writing another chapter

in the book of epic rivalries.

Which is great news for tennis fans everywhere, whoever they support

because for us these rivalries, the stuff of legend,

have always been tennis matches made in heaven.