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Ireland's attachment to the Catholic Church | 0:00:09 | 0:00:11 | |
is straining to breaking point. | 0:00:11 | 0:00:13 | |
The secret crimes of Irish priests against children | 0:00:17 | 0:00:21 | |
have collapsed the Church's moral authority. | 0:00:21 | 0:00:24 | |
I should be out playing with other ten-year-olds, but I wasn't. | 0:00:24 | 0:00:28 | |
I was being taken down to the beach and raped. | 0:00:28 | 0:00:32 | |
Once the bastion of Catholicism on the edge of Europe, | 0:00:33 | 0:00:37 | |
successive state inquiries on clerical abuse | 0:00:37 | 0:00:40 | |
have revealed ugly secrets and left the Church reeling. | 0:00:40 | 0:00:44 | |
I don't know of any other situation that I'm aware of | 0:00:44 | 0:00:48 | |
where the clerical establishment has disintegrated | 0:00:48 | 0:00:51 | |
as quickly and as dramatically and as comprehensively as it has in Ireland. | 0:00:51 | 0:00:55 | |
The clerical abuse scandal is far from ended | 0:00:55 | 0:00:59 | |
and it goes to the very top of the Catholic Church in Ireland. | 0:00:59 | 0:01:02 | |
I am 100% certain, I've got absolutely no doubt in my mind, | 0:01:02 | 0:01:06 | |
I gave them the names and addresses of those children. | 0:01:06 | 0:01:09 | |
You know that children were abused because you failed... | 0:01:09 | 0:01:12 | |
in part, because you failed to protect them. | 0:01:12 | 0:01:15 | |
No. I did what I was there to do. | 0:01:15 | 0:01:18 | |
The Irish Catholic Church once had unquestioned authority. | 0:01:18 | 0:01:22 | |
Not any more. | 0:01:22 | 0:01:24 | |
It came in about two or three years, | 0:01:24 | 0:01:25 | |
where the entire business of the Church's power over our lives | 0:01:25 | 0:01:30 | |
in the Republic of Ireland simply went down and stayed down, | 0:01:30 | 0:01:35 | |
and it looks as though it cannot rise. | 0:01:35 | 0:01:38 | |
The official end of Holy Roman Catholic Ireland | 0:01:49 | 0:01:52 | |
came last summer with an extraordinary speech by the Irish Prime Minister. | 0:01:52 | 0:01:57 | |
The rape and the torture of children were downplayed, | 0:01:57 | 0:02:00 | |
or managed, to uphold, instead, | 0:02:00 | 0:02:03 | |
the primacy of the institution - its power, | 0:02:03 | 0:02:06 | |
its standing and its reputation. | 0:02:06 | 0:02:09 | |
That landmark speech from a leader rooted in rural Catholic Ireland | 0:02:10 | 0:02:14 | |
drew on the anger and frustration of the Irish public. | 0:02:14 | 0:02:19 | |
I'm in Donegal, in the very northwest of Ireland. | 0:02:19 | 0:02:24 | |
It has the highest rate of allegations of clerical abuse in the country. | 0:02:24 | 0:02:28 | |
The Church is set to publish its own report about abuse | 0:02:32 | 0:02:35 | |
here in the local Raphoe diocese. | 0:02:35 | 0:02:38 | |
It hopes it will help to restore its reputation. | 0:02:38 | 0:02:41 | |
Convicted rapist Father Eugene Greene attacked children here | 0:02:47 | 0:02:51 | |
and in other parts of the county for decades, | 0:02:51 | 0:02:53 | |
often in the most remote and beautiful places. | 0:02:53 | 0:02:57 | |
It's known the rapist was reported to his superiors many years ago but, | 0:03:00 | 0:03:05 | |
until now, bishops have insisted there's no evidence of this. | 0:03:05 | 0:03:09 | |
No-one knows more about Father Eugene Greene, | 0:03:23 | 0:03:26 | |
and how the Church handled him, than retired detective Martin Ridge. | 0:03:26 | 0:03:31 | |
He spent two years investigating the crimes of Ireland's most prolific child rapist. | 0:03:31 | 0:03:35 | |
We're crossing to Inishbofin Island, a mile off the Donegal coast. | 0:03:40 | 0:03:45 | |
No place was safe for children here. | 0:03:45 | 0:03:47 | |
The most beautiful, idyllic place you could imagine to live, | 0:03:51 | 0:03:56 | |
where innocence collided with evil. | 0:03:56 | 0:03:59 | |
It seemed that the wolves were protected, | 0:03:59 | 0:04:03 | |
and the innocence of children, the little lambs, weren't. | 0:04:03 | 0:04:06 | |
I don't believe a week went by | 0:04:08 | 0:04:10 | |
in West Donegal where you hadn't a child | 0:04:10 | 0:04:14 | |
or a number of children sexually abused. | 0:04:14 | 0:04:17 | |
It's horrendous. | 0:04:17 | 0:04:19 | |
Anywhere you look around here, which is so hard to fathom - | 0:04:20 | 0:04:24 | |
by roads, side roads, in churches, schools... | 0:04:24 | 0:04:29 | |
The abuse here was something unbelievable. | 0:04:29 | 0:04:33 | |
Unbelievable! | 0:04:33 | 0:04:35 | |
And the fact that nobody in the public spoke out about this, | 0:04:35 | 0:04:39 | |
after the total carnage here... | 0:04:39 | 0:04:42 | |
What happened here? | 0:04:58 | 0:05:00 | |
There's a little compartment just behind here, Darragh, | 0:05:00 | 0:05:03 | |
just behind this very altar, which was set up in the event | 0:05:03 | 0:05:08 | |
of a priest being stuck on the island due to bad weather, you know? | 0:05:08 | 0:05:12 | |
And unfortunately, | 0:05:13 | 0:05:15 | |
Father Eugene Greene led some very young boys up here... | 0:05:15 | 0:05:19 | |
..and abused them, | 0:05:22 | 0:05:24 | |
raped them horrifically, just behind this altar here. | 0:05:24 | 0:05:28 | |
Behind the wall, basically. | 0:05:29 | 0:05:31 | |
Of course, he was abused time and time again, the same boy, | 0:05:31 | 0:05:34 | |
but some of the abuse happened here. | 0:05:34 | 0:05:37 | |
The police investigation, | 0:05:42 | 0:05:43 | |
which ended with Father Eugene Greene being jailed in 2000, | 0:05:43 | 0:05:48 | |
found evidence the priest's crimes were covered up, | 0:05:48 | 0:05:51 | |
something always denied by the Church, | 0:05:51 | 0:05:54 | |
which says there's no documentary proof. | 0:05:54 | 0:05:57 | |
What do you expect from the Raphoe report in a couple of days' time? | 0:06:08 | 0:06:11 | |
-Any revelations? -Well, it's hard to see. | 0:06:11 | 0:06:15 | |
I mean, the review itself will show what was on the files, | 0:06:15 | 0:06:20 | |
what was written down. | 0:06:20 | 0:06:23 | |
Will it be enough to convince us that all the truth is written down? | 0:06:23 | 0:06:27 | |
I don't know. I don't like to be a cynic like Saint Thomas, | 0:06:27 | 0:06:32 | |
but I only know too well how hard it is to get to the truth in the Catholic Church. | 0:06:32 | 0:06:36 | |
I know that much remains hidden here | 0:06:45 | 0:06:48 | |
because I used to call this place home. | 0:06:48 | 0:06:51 | |
14 years ago, I gave up my job as a BBC reporter and moved, | 0:06:51 | 0:06:55 | |
with family, to a new life running a pub restaurant. | 0:06:55 | 0:07:00 | |
Now, Darragh, back to the old haunt again. | 0:07:00 | 0:07:04 | |
-Do you think there's any change since you left? -Not a lot has changed. -No? | 0:07:04 | 0:07:08 | |
'Most of Father Eugene Greene's 26 known victims | 0:07:08 | 0:07:11 | |
'come from Gortahurk, where I lived. | 0:07:11 | 0:07:14 | |
'Until the police inquiry began, they suffered in silence. | 0:07:14 | 0:07:17 | |
'One of them worked with me, Martin Gallagher.' | 0:07:17 | 0:07:21 | |
This shows exactly where Greene shared his time... | 0:07:21 | 0:07:24 | |
'Martin shows me the various parishes Father Eugene Greene worked and abused in. | 0:07:24 | 0:07:30 | |
'He believes the priest was moved | 0:07:30 | 0:07:32 | |
'every time rumours of abuse surfaced.' | 0:07:32 | 0:07:35 | |
He served there, and Gweedore, here, | 0:07:35 | 0:07:38 | |
and he went to... Where were we? ..Glenties, down here. | 0:07:38 | 0:07:43 | |
Down here, yeah. All the way down. | 0:07:43 | 0:07:47 | |
He served on Tory Island, under Gortahurk. | 0:07:47 | 0:07:49 | |
Tory Island and Inishbofin. | 0:07:49 | 0:07:51 | |
And then he finished up in Kilmacreehy. | 0:07:51 | 0:07:54 | |
That's where his last post was. | 0:07:54 | 0:07:56 | |
They're moving this priest... | 0:07:56 | 0:07:58 | |
It's like spreading a disease from one corner to another. | 0:07:59 | 0:08:02 | |
The bishops spread the disease. He had the disease, they spread it. | 0:08:02 | 0:08:07 | |
As simple as A, B, C. | 0:08:08 | 0:08:10 | |
With the Donegal Church report imminent, | 0:08:16 | 0:08:19 | |
Martin has just now started to speak publicly about his abuse. | 0:08:19 | 0:08:23 | |
It began when the 12-year-old was encouraged to drive the priest's car. | 0:08:23 | 0:08:28 | |
He started groping me when I was driving...and messing about. | 0:08:30 | 0:08:35 | |
My hands were on the wheel and, at that age, you were nervous, | 0:08:36 | 0:08:40 | |
probably, at driving, and excited, and all that, | 0:08:40 | 0:08:44 | |
and you kept your hands on the wheel, regardless. | 0:08:44 | 0:08:47 | |
And he would carry on...messing. | 0:08:47 | 0:08:50 | |
He would stop and change. He would drive | 0:08:50 | 0:08:53 | |
and expect the same treatment back from me | 0:08:53 | 0:08:57 | |
that I was...he was giving me. | 0:08:57 | 0:08:59 | |
Like... | 0:08:59 | 0:09:00 | |
I couldn't do that. He was forcing me to do it. | 0:09:00 | 0:09:05 | |
Scary. | 0:09:05 | 0:09:07 | |
Like really scary, because at 12 years old, you're very innocent. | 0:09:07 | 0:09:13 | |
Very... How would you say? Stupid or whatever... | 0:09:13 | 0:09:16 | |
You didn't know any better... | 0:09:16 | 0:09:19 | |
HE SIGHS | 0:09:19 | 0:09:22 | |
It was... | 0:09:22 | 0:09:23 | |
And stuff. | 0:09:25 | 0:09:26 | |
Did he ever say anything to you about, "This is our secret"? | 0:09:26 | 0:09:31 | |
Yeah. He would... | 0:09:33 | 0:09:35 | |
Sorry. I've got to stop there. | 0:09:37 | 0:09:40 | |
Um... | 0:09:40 | 0:09:42 | |
You know, people looking at this just don't understand... | 0:09:43 | 0:09:46 | |
..the devastation, the hurt, the harm that that man did. | 0:09:48 | 0:09:53 | |
They don't... People will never understand. | 0:09:53 | 0:09:56 | |
The hurt he's caused. The lives he's ruined. | 0:10:00 | 0:10:04 | |
And the lives that have been lost because of him... | 0:10:08 | 0:10:13 | |
that could have been prevented, like... | 0:10:13 | 0:10:16 | |
..if people had taken action. | 0:10:17 | 0:10:20 | |
When he was with you, did he ever mention God? Did he ever...? | 0:10:20 | 0:10:24 | |
No, no. | 0:10:24 | 0:10:25 | |
God was the last thing on his mind. He didn't care about God. | 0:10:29 | 0:10:33 | |
John McAteer, editor of the local Tirconaill Tribune, | 0:10:49 | 0:10:54 | |
Donegal born and bred. | 0:10:54 | 0:10:56 | |
The Church he knew was too powerful, beyond reproach. | 0:10:56 | 0:11:00 | |
John, what about the culture of silence that was here. | 0:11:02 | 0:11:05 | |
I mean, does that culture of silence still exist? | 0:11:05 | 0:11:08 | |
The culture of silence is, I think, a misnomer, to a great extent, | 0:11:10 | 0:11:16 | |
because of the power and strength of the hierarchy over the centuries and over the years here | 0:11:16 | 0:11:21 | |
in a very rural and conservative diocese like Raphoe. | 0:11:21 | 0:11:24 | |
There was a culture of fear... | 0:11:24 | 0:11:27 | |
fear that if you reported that you were being abused, | 0:11:27 | 0:11:30 | |
you'd probably be further abused by your parents for making the allegation. | 0:11:30 | 0:11:34 | |
This was a very serious situation. | 0:11:34 | 0:11:36 | |
And I think that that is ingrained into the psyche of the people here in this diocese, | 0:11:36 | 0:11:41 | |
and maybe, to an extent, | 0:11:41 | 0:11:43 | |
that whole history is there to this very day. | 0:11:43 | 0:11:46 | |
-You don't think it's gone? -I don't think it's gone, no. | 0:11:46 | 0:11:50 | |
Because there's a denial there, | 0:11:51 | 0:11:53 | |
and there remains a denial to this very day, | 0:11:53 | 0:11:56 | |
that to criticise the Church is entirely wrong. | 0:11:56 | 0:11:59 | |
That deference is fading, but it almost impossible | 0:12:06 | 0:12:10 | |
to overstate the power the Catholic Church once had. | 0:12:10 | 0:12:14 | |
For generations, the Church influenced most aspects of Irish life. | 0:12:21 | 0:12:25 | |
CHURCH BELL RINGS | 0:12:25 | 0:12:28 | |
Dublin, and the Eucharistic Congress of 1932. | 0:12:31 | 0:12:34 | |
The Catholic Church was presiding like a new monarchy | 0:12:34 | 0:12:38 | |
over the fledgling Irish state. | 0:12:38 | 0:12:41 | |
Exalted and respected, and feared too. | 0:12:41 | 0:12:44 | |
Author Colm Toibin grew up Catholic in a country town. | 0:12:49 | 0:12:53 | |
He's long scrutinised the relationship between the Irish | 0:12:53 | 0:12:56 | |
and the institutional Church. | 0:12:56 | 0:12:58 | |
Southern Ireland was effectively, after 1922, | 0:13:00 | 0:13:04 | |
a Catholic state for a Catholic people. | 0:13:04 | 0:13:07 | |
The Church was an effective government, or shadow government, | 0:13:07 | 0:13:13 | |
making it absolutely clear to government | 0:13:13 | 0:13:16 | |
that they would control schools, | 0:13:16 | 0:13:18 | |
hospitals and many other areas of public morality. | 0:13:18 | 0:13:23 | |
Anyone who didn't like this, there was only one place to go | 0:13:23 | 0:13:26 | |
and that was OUT. Some people went out looking for work, | 0:13:26 | 0:13:30 | |
other people went out looking for freedom, | 0:13:30 | 0:13:32 | |
but that was a great release - | 0:13:32 | 0:13:33 | |
giving the church further power over those who remained. | 0:13:33 | 0:13:36 | |
And there was a nobility and grandeur about them. | 0:13:36 | 0:13:40 | |
I mean, the bishop lived in a palace, but even in the towns, | 0:13:40 | 0:13:43 | |
the priest's house was often - or in villages - the biggest house, | 0:13:43 | 0:13:46 | |
and the curate had a separate house, and they had housekeepers, | 0:13:46 | 0:13:50 | |
so there was a sense of their grandeur. | 0:13:50 | 0:13:52 | |
They almost replaced landlords, | 0:13:52 | 0:13:55 | |
or were a shadow system in the way in which they functioned, | 0:13:55 | 0:13:59 | |
and the sense of their distance and grandeur and importance. | 0:13:59 | 0:14:05 | |
Maynooth College was once the world's largest seminary. | 0:14:11 | 0:14:14 | |
Thousands of priests left here to work across the globe, | 0:14:15 | 0:14:19 | |
my own uncle, Father Noel, among them. | 0:14:19 | 0:14:22 | |
That production line is almost closed. | 0:14:22 | 0:14:25 | |
Fewer than a dozen priests are expected to be ordained this year. | 0:14:25 | 0:14:28 | |
The class photo of 2007 shows just four graduating priests. | 0:14:32 | 0:14:38 | |
Contrast that with the class of 1954. | 0:14:38 | 0:14:43 | |
This is my uncle, Father Noel MacIntyre. | 0:14:43 | 0:14:46 | |
As you can see up here, Nollaig Mac an tSaoir in the Irish. | 0:14:46 | 0:14:50 | |
A decent man, very important to me, growing up. A good man. | 0:14:50 | 0:14:56 | |
The sort of traditional Irish Catholic parish priest | 0:14:56 | 0:15:01 | |
that every community deserved. | 0:15:01 | 0:15:04 | |
Didn't always get. | 0:15:04 | 0:15:05 | |
But he's a good man. | 0:15:05 | 0:15:07 | |
You have a sense, don't you, of just an entirely different Ireland, | 0:15:08 | 0:15:12 | |
looking at this. | 0:15:12 | 0:15:13 | |
All these men. | 0:15:13 | 0:15:16 | |
You know, 60, 70 men proudly marching to work for God. | 0:15:16 | 0:15:21 | |
But that was a different Ireland. And, of course, a different Church. | 0:15:22 | 0:15:27 | |
That's the point. | 0:15:27 | 0:15:29 | |
Across Ireland, | 0:15:35 | 0:15:37 | |
bishops have been forced to account for decades of clerical abuse. | 0:15:37 | 0:15:41 | |
Can the Church now do the same with the Raphoe report? | 0:15:41 | 0:15:43 | |
That's the question people are asking in Donegal. | 0:15:45 | 0:15:47 | |
People like my old neighbours, the Breslins. | 0:15:49 | 0:15:51 | |
So, where was that? | 0:15:53 | 0:15:55 | |
'Martin's aunt, Kathleen, and her son Paul, | 0:15:55 | 0:15:59 | |
'who was also abused by Father Eugene Greene.' | 0:15:59 | 0:16:03 | |
-That's me. -That's you? -That's Martin, there. -The good-looking one. | 0:16:03 | 0:16:08 | |
The good-looking one's Martin. I was ugly. And that's my little sister. | 0:16:08 | 0:16:11 | |
-It's a lovely picture of them. The two boys. -The first Holy Communion. | 0:16:11 | 0:16:15 | |
Their first Holy Communion, with their rosary beads. | 0:16:15 | 0:16:19 | |
How tough was it for you at the start, when it all happened? | 0:16:19 | 0:16:23 | |
-When it all came out? -Oh, it was really tough. | 0:16:23 | 0:16:27 | |
I remember the first night... | 0:16:27 | 0:16:28 | |
Martin... The minute he told me, I knew. | 0:16:28 | 0:16:34 | |
The minute he said it, I said, "I know." | 0:16:34 | 0:16:36 | |
When he mentioned Father Greene, I knew right away, | 0:16:36 | 0:16:39 | |
because I knew he took the two of them. So... | 0:16:39 | 0:16:44 | |
I knew what happened. | 0:16:44 | 0:16:45 | |
Because it was starting to come out at that time, you know? | 0:16:45 | 0:16:48 | |
And I heard, you know, so... | 0:16:48 | 0:16:50 | |
Martin told me that night, and that was the beginning. | 0:16:52 | 0:16:56 | |
'It's always depended on women. | 0:16:57 | 0:16:59 | |
'The woman represented the Church in the house. | 0:17:00 | 0:17:03 | |
'She decided, you know,' | 0:17:03 | 0:17:05 | |
what mass you went to. She decided who... | 0:17:05 | 0:17:07 | |
"Have you been to confession?" It was your mother asked you that question. | 0:17:07 | 0:17:11 | |
There was no saying no. You had to go, and that was it. It's changed, surely. | 0:17:11 | 0:17:15 | |
-There isn't as many go now. -Would people remark if you didn't go? | 0:17:15 | 0:17:20 | |
Oh, well, them days, you had to go. | 0:17:20 | 0:17:23 | |
'Not one bishop, not one senior clergyman had stepped out of line, had been brave enough to say, | 0:17:24 | 0:17:30 | |
"I know more than everyone is saying | 0:17:30 | 0:17:33 | |
"and it is wrong." Not one did it. | 0:17:33 | 0:17:36 | |
And for women who had brought up children, | 0:17:36 | 0:17:39 | |
who had done everything possible in their own households, | 0:17:39 | 0:17:42 | |
that was an extraordinary breach of something they fundamentally believed in. | 0:17:42 | 0:17:46 | |
It was hard to believe it. | 0:17:46 | 0:17:48 | |
Because when you think that he came in here, you know, | 0:17:48 | 0:17:52 | |
that he was in this house so often, you know, saying mass... | 0:17:52 | 0:17:57 | |
It was hard to believe it...you know? | 0:17:58 | 0:18:02 | |
Paul Breslin was an altar boy | 0:18:03 | 0:18:05 | |
when Father Eugene Greene first took him away in his car. | 0:18:05 | 0:18:09 | |
Always to quiet, isolated places. | 0:18:13 | 0:18:16 | |
The thing is, there's so much beauty here, but, for me, | 0:18:16 | 0:18:20 | |
there's so much evil and so much hurt. | 0:18:20 | 0:18:22 | |
I should be out playing with other ten-year-olds. But I wasn't. | 0:18:25 | 0:18:29 | |
I was being taken down to the beach and raped. | 0:18:29 | 0:18:31 | |
The age of 10, 11, 12. I had no life at all. | 0:18:34 | 0:18:38 | |
I had no childhood, no fun... | 0:18:38 | 0:18:40 | |
Nothing. It was just pain, pain, pain. | 0:18:40 | 0:18:44 | |
Every single week, pain. | 0:18:44 | 0:18:45 | |
I would say to myself, "Why is God doing this to me?" | 0:18:45 | 0:18:48 | |
I thought God was supposed to care | 0:18:48 | 0:18:51 | |
and the priests were supposed to care, and not hurt a person, you know? | 0:18:51 | 0:18:55 | |
And I thought, "Maybe I'm doing something wrong here." You know? | 0:18:55 | 0:18:58 | |
Am I not doing a good enough job as an altar boy | 0:18:58 | 0:19:01 | |
that he's punishing me for this? | 0:19:01 | 0:19:03 | |
When I gradually, as I was growing up, when I was 14, 15, | 0:19:05 | 0:19:09 | |
even up to 16, you're learning about, | 0:19:09 | 0:19:11 | |
you know, everything about your body, and everything, | 0:19:11 | 0:19:15 | |
then I would think, "Oh, my God! | 0:19:15 | 0:19:18 | |
"These things that happened to me! This is what he fucking done to ME!" | 0:19:18 | 0:19:23 | |
The pain got even worse then. It was in there. | 0:19:23 | 0:19:27 | |
And I couldn't...I couldn't tell anybody. I couldn't go to anybody. | 0:19:27 | 0:19:31 | |
They wouldn't believe you, anyway, to start off with. | 0:19:31 | 0:19:34 | |
'It's now clear that survivors have not been spoken to for the upcoming report, | 0:19:34 | 0:19:39 | |
'which is relying on the Church's own documents. | 0:19:39 | 0:19:42 | |
'I worry this will disappoint those who I have met.' | 0:19:42 | 0:19:46 | |
We weren't involved with this report. We have to speak up, be heard. | 0:19:46 | 0:19:51 | |
I want this, I want that, I want to see those files, that letter of complaint. | 0:19:51 | 0:19:55 | |
I want to know why was he moved from this parish. | 0:19:55 | 0:19:59 | |
You knew he was doing it in that parish but you moved him to the other parish. | 0:19:59 | 0:20:02 | |
Why was he then moved to the other parish? | 0:20:02 | 0:20:05 | |
-You want answers? -Of course we want answers. We want answers, big answers. Definitely. | 0:20:05 | 0:20:10 | |
Father Eugene Greene's crimes might have remained hidden | 0:20:17 | 0:20:22 | |
except for one man who'd been brutally abused - Conal Melly, | 0:20:22 | 0:20:26 | |
telling his story for the very first time in public. | 0:20:26 | 0:20:29 | |
You never forget it. | 0:20:29 | 0:20:31 | |
It's with you for the rest of your life. | 0:20:31 | 0:20:34 | |
And there's nothing you can do about it. | 0:20:34 | 0:20:36 | |
'He has no faith that the Church will admit to a cover-up. | 0:20:37 | 0:20:42 | |
'After a chance meeting in 1997, | 0:20:42 | 0:20:45 | |
'he tried to get Greene to admit to his crimes.' | 0:20:45 | 0:20:48 | |
It was probably... maybe a month after it... | 0:20:48 | 0:20:54 | |
I went down and confronted him. | 0:20:54 | 0:20:57 | |
-What did you say to him? -I told him... | 0:20:59 | 0:21:03 | |
I asked him, did he remember me, and he said no. | 0:21:03 | 0:21:06 | |
And I said, "Do you remember abusing me when I was young?" | 0:21:08 | 0:21:12 | |
He said he never abused anyone. Never. | 0:21:12 | 0:21:15 | |
So what did you say to him? What did you do to him? | 0:21:15 | 0:21:19 | |
I caught him and flung him across...flung him across the room. | 0:21:19 | 0:21:22 | |
He was like... | 0:21:22 | 0:21:25 | |
It was different then. I was a lot bigger than him. | 0:21:25 | 0:21:28 | |
-What age had you been when he had abused you? -About 11. | 0:21:29 | 0:21:33 | |
-You were a tiny child? -Yeah. | 0:21:33 | 0:21:35 | |
-It was different now? -Yeah. it was different now. | 0:21:38 | 0:21:41 | |
So you picked him up and you...? | 0:21:43 | 0:21:46 | |
I picked him up and flung him across the room. | 0:21:46 | 0:21:49 | |
And what did you say to him? | 0:21:49 | 0:21:51 | |
I can't remember exactly what I said to him, | 0:21:52 | 0:21:55 | |
but said I would fucking kill him. | 0:21:55 | 0:21:57 | |
-And I think that frightened him. -But he still didn't admit to...? -No. | 0:21:59 | 0:22:04 | |
He did not. He never admitted knowing me. | 0:22:04 | 0:22:07 | |
Conal then told the priest he wanted compensation - £5,000. | 0:22:09 | 0:22:13 | |
But what did he do? | 0:22:13 | 0:22:16 | |
He reported it to the guards. He reported me to the guards. | 0:22:19 | 0:22:24 | |
Why... | 0:22:25 | 0:22:27 | |
As if he was innocent. | 0:22:29 | 0:22:31 | |
Or he must have thought the guards would believe him. | 0:22:33 | 0:22:37 | |
Conal was arrested for attempted blackmail | 0:22:39 | 0:22:43 | |
but Father Eugene Greene had miscalculated. | 0:22:43 | 0:22:46 | |
The police were now prepared to believe the former altar boy | 0:22:46 | 0:22:50 | |
and not the man with the Roman collar. | 0:22:50 | 0:22:52 | |
Dozens of victims came forward. | 0:22:55 | 0:22:58 | |
Father Eugene Greene was convicted and sentenced to 12 years in prison. | 0:22:58 | 0:23:02 | |
But what the Church knew was never explained. | 0:23:02 | 0:23:06 | |
The big change then came from a number of individuals, | 0:23:07 | 0:23:11 | |
because when the victims began to speak, | 0:23:11 | 0:23:15 | |
when you saw somebody describing what their adulthood was like | 0:23:15 | 0:23:19 | |
in the shadow of what had happened to them... | 0:23:19 | 0:23:22 | |
There was an element of shame in this, | 0:23:22 | 0:23:24 | |
that they had been living with this, | 0:23:24 | 0:23:27 | |
this had been going on in front of everyone's noses. | 0:23:27 | 0:23:29 | |
The big question across Ireland this morning - | 0:23:32 | 0:23:35 | |
will the report into Donegal's Raphoe diocese | 0:23:35 | 0:23:38 | |
help restore the Church's reputation? | 0:23:38 | 0:23:40 | |
What they're predicting in today's papers... The Irish Times - | 0:23:40 | 0:23:46 | |
"Criticism likely for Raphoe bishops on child sex claims", right? | 0:23:46 | 0:23:51 | |
If that is the sum of it, if it is just simply a mild criticism, | 0:23:51 | 0:23:55 | |
that's not going to satisfy them. Absolutely not. They are... | 0:23:55 | 0:23:59 | |
At one point, they would have been anxious for heads to roll. | 0:23:59 | 0:24:02 | |
They know that's not going to happen now. | 0:24:02 | 0:24:04 | |
But they absolutely want the Church to own up, to 'fess up, | 0:24:04 | 0:24:09 | |
to confess their role in hiding and covering up the crimes, | 0:24:09 | 0:24:15 | |
for more than three decades, of Father Eugene Greene. | 0:24:15 | 0:24:19 | |
'Shaun Doherty at highlandradio.com...' | 0:24:24 | 0:24:26 | |
10am. The local bishop, Philip Boyce, goes live on morning radio. | 0:24:26 | 0:24:31 | |
'Well, it's an important day for the Diocese of Raphoe | 0:24:32 | 0:24:36 | |
'because the much-anticipated report has just...' | 0:24:36 | 0:24:40 | |
Retired detective Martin Ridge, | 0:24:40 | 0:24:42 | |
waiting to hear if any new information is revealed. | 0:24:42 | 0:24:45 | |
'Nothing was done at the time. Now, we are talking about the late '70s | 0:24:46 | 0:24:49 | |
'and there wasn't such awareness of child abuse at that time, | 0:24:49 | 0:24:53 | |
'and there certainly wasn't awareness...' | 0:24:53 | 0:24:56 | |
-There WAS awareness of it. -'..The children, sometimes lifelong damage. | 0:24:56 | 0:25:01 | |
'Our parishes, as far as humanly is possible, | 0:25:01 | 0:25:04 | |
'a safe place for our children, because, after all, our children...' | 0:25:04 | 0:25:08 | |
Pathetic, listening to that. Pathetic. | 0:25:08 | 0:25:12 | |
Self-serving words and no more. | 0:25:12 | 0:25:14 | |
'..the society and Church of tomorrow.' | 0:25:14 | 0:25:17 | |
Later, there's a massive media turnout for a press conference with Bishop Boyce. | 0:25:26 | 0:25:30 | |
I have spent endless hours and given much time | 0:25:38 | 0:25:42 | |
and energy to eradicating this evil, repairing what is damaged as best I could, | 0:25:42 | 0:25:48 | |
restoring justice and putting structures in place | 0:25:48 | 0:25:51 | |
to prevent, as far as possible, this criminal sin from happening again. | 0:25:51 | 0:25:56 | |
Finally, I would like to take this opportunity to say that | 0:25:56 | 0:25:59 | |
the task of ensuring the safeguarding of young people in the Diocese of Raphoe is an ongoing one. | 0:25:59 | 0:26:04 | |
Thank you. | 0:26:04 | 0:26:07 | |
Bishop Boyce, can I ask you...? | 0:26:08 | 0:26:10 | |
Pointedly, there is no specific criticism | 0:26:10 | 0:26:13 | |
of bishops or of the Church | 0:26:13 | 0:26:14 | |
in the way they handled Father Eugene Greene, | 0:26:14 | 0:26:17 | |
one of the country's most prolific paedophiles, | 0:26:17 | 0:26:19 | |
there's no specific criticism of the way the Church or successive bishops handled him, | 0:26:19 | 0:26:25 | |
including yourself - does this report then, | 0:26:25 | 0:26:27 | |
in your terms, exonerate bishops and the Church, the way they handled...? | 0:26:27 | 0:26:31 | |
I'm not saying that it exonerates everybody. | 0:26:31 | 0:26:34 | |
It...it just shows that, at the time, | 0:26:34 | 0:26:38 | |
these...the information on these terrible things that happened | 0:26:38 | 0:26:44 | |
weren't handed up as far as...let's say, as the bishop's office, | 0:26:44 | 0:26:50 | |
and that word of that didn't come to us, | 0:26:50 | 0:26:53 | |
because there was no reference whatsoever to any allegation in the files which I saw when I came in. | 0:26:53 | 0:26:59 | |
The Church never intended the report to thoroughly investigate the past. | 0:27:03 | 0:27:08 | |
It was restricted to an examination of diocesan files, | 0:27:08 | 0:27:11 | |
and because nothing was found in the files, that is where it ended. | 0:27:11 | 0:27:15 | |
It's clear that significant errors of judgment were made by successive bishops | 0:27:21 | 0:27:25 | |
when responding to child abuse allegations that emerged within this diocese, | 0:27:25 | 0:27:29 | |
but there's no reference to Father Eugene Greene himself. | 0:27:29 | 0:27:33 | |
I know if I was... | 0:27:34 | 0:27:36 | |
..one of those who'd been attacked by Father Eugene Greene, | 0:27:38 | 0:27:43 | |
or if my brother or my child had been attacked by Father Eugene Greene, | 0:27:43 | 0:27:48 | |
and this is the sum of the knowledge | 0:27:48 | 0:27:52 | |
that the Church is admitting to now, I'd be absolutely outraged. | 0:27:52 | 0:27:58 | |
I'd be furious. | 0:27:58 | 0:27:59 | |
At the Tirconaill Tribune newspaper, | 0:28:06 | 0:28:08 | |
the presses are underway by late afternoon. | 0:28:08 | 0:28:11 | |
The editor has made up his mind. | 0:28:11 | 0:28:14 | |
My biggest criticism of it, apart from that, | 0:28:17 | 0:28:20 | |
is that here you have an audit into clerical sex abuse | 0:28:20 | 0:28:24 | |
that has no terms of reference to talk to the abused, | 0:28:24 | 0:28:28 | |
and you just ask the question, | 0:28:28 | 0:28:30 | |
"How can a report of any kind | 0:28:30 | 0:28:33 | |
"be completed without talking to the victims?" | 0:28:33 | 0:28:37 | |
Remember that a lot of these survivors have spent | 0:28:37 | 0:28:42 | |
35, 40 years literally imprisoned in their own minds, | 0:28:42 | 0:28:46 | |
imprisoned in their own communities and, to a great extent, | 0:28:46 | 0:28:48 | |
have been hospitalised in psychiatric wards, have had nervous breakdowns, | 0:28:48 | 0:28:53 | |
have had serious bouts of alcoholism, have had thoughts of suicide. | 0:28:53 | 0:28:58 | |
The scenario is absolutely horrendous. | 0:28:58 | 0:29:02 | |
And yet, you contrast that against how the Church has handled it | 0:29:02 | 0:29:07 | |
and how the institutions of the Church have totally failed those people. | 0:29:07 | 0:29:12 | |
Today's audit, to me, does nothing to address their concerns and their health problems. | 0:29:12 | 0:29:17 | |
What'll your front page say tonight? | 0:29:17 | 0:29:19 | |
We'll be simply saying that | 0:29:19 | 0:29:21 | |
-a diocesan audit is a whitewash. -A whitewash? -A whitewash. | 0:29:21 | 0:29:25 | |
It's very difficult | 0:29:28 | 0:29:29 | |
if you put such an important organisation on the run, as it were, | 0:29:29 | 0:29:35 | |
that they simply will have no idea how to behave, | 0:29:35 | 0:29:38 | |
how often to look back as they run, | 0:29:38 | 0:29:40 | |
how frightened to look, how apologetic to look, | 0:29:40 | 0:29:43 | |
how to avoid the worst catastrophe. | 0:29:43 | 0:29:46 | |
So it's not as though you could say | 0:29:46 | 0:29:48 | |
there was one way the Church should have functioned | 0:29:48 | 0:29:51 | |
at the very beginning. | 0:29:51 | 0:29:52 | |
The issue is that the Church had such power | 0:29:52 | 0:29:55 | |
and that power became abuse | 0:29:55 | 0:29:57 | |
and that abuse was sexual abuse, | 0:29:57 | 0:29:59 | |
and that happened to so many vulnerable young people | 0:29:59 | 0:30:02 | |
whose lives were destroyed | 0:30:02 | 0:30:03 | |
and that has to be dealt with. | 0:30:03 | 0:30:05 | |
The failure of the Catholic hierarchy | 0:30:08 | 0:30:11 | |
to deal with abusing priests | 0:30:11 | 0:30:13 | |
was not just confined to Donegal. | 0:30:13 | 0:30:16 | |
One story, still unresolved, | 0:30:16 | 0:30:18 | |
goes all the way to the very top of the Irish Catholic Church | 0:30:18 | 0:30:22 | |
and could have explosive consequences. | 0:30:22 | 0:30:24 | |
It involves Cardinal Sean Brady, Primate of All Ireland... | 0:30:26 | 0:30:30 | |
The last few days have been among the most extraordinary... | 0:30:30 | 0:30:33 | |
..and the country's most notorious paedophile priest, | 0:30:33 | 0:30:37 | |
Father Brendan Smyth. | 0:30:37 | 0:30:39 | |
At its centre, a boy who in 1975 | 0:30:42 | 0:30:45 | |
reported Smyth's abuse to the cardinal, | 0:30:45 | 0:30:48 | |
hoping to end the abuse of him and other children. | 0:30:48 | 0:30:51 | |
What Brendan Boland didn't know | 0:30:51 | 0:30:53 | |
was that the institution in which he and his family held so much faith | 0:30:53 | 0:30:57 | |
would in fact conspire to silence him. | 0:30:57 | 0:31:01 | |
What age were you when this all started? | 0:31:01 | 0:31:03 | |
Well, when I was an altar boy, | 0:31:05 | 0:31:07 | |
I was 11 years old. | 0:31:07 | 0:31:08 | |
-You were just 11? -Just 11, yeah. | 0:31:10 | 0:31:12 | |
And how long did it carry on for? | 0:31:12 | 0:31:14 | |
It carried on for...over two years. | 0:31:14 | 0:31:17 | |
Smyth, who abused for four decades, | 0:31:21 | 0:31:24 | |
often took children on marathon excursions in his car | 0:31:24 | 0:31:27 | |
up and down the island. | 0:31:27 | 0:31:30 | |
Brendan remembers one particular trip to Dublin. | 0:31:30 | 0:31:34 | |
Got in the car, and we went to Belfast | 0:31:34 | 0:31:36 | |
and we picked up two children in Belfast. | 0:31:36 | 0:31:39 | |
And then we drove from Belfast to Cavan. | 0:31:41 | 0:31:45 | |
We picked a girl up in Cavan. | 0:31:45 | 0:31:47 | |
Went to pick another boy up in Cavan. | 0:31:50 | 0:31:54 | |
And then we went back to the bed and breakfast. | 0:31:56 | 0:32:00 | |
And there was two bedrooms, | 0:32:00 | 0:32:02 | |
there was one for the girls | 0:32:02 | 0:32:04 | |
and one for Father Smyth and the two boys. | 0:32:04 | 0:32:07 | |
That was you and another boy? | 0:32:07 | 0:32:09 | |
Me and another boy, boy from Belfast. | 0:32:09 | 0:32:11 | |
And, um... | 0:32:13 | 0:32:14 | |
He called me over first | 0:32:14 | 0:32:16 | |
and he abused me the way he did before. | 0:32:16 | 0:32:20 | |
And when he was finished with me, | 0:32:21 | 0:32:24 | |
I went back to the bed | 0:32:24 | 0:32:26 | |
and then he called the other boy over | 0:32:26 | 0:32:28 | |
and done the same with him, and this time, I was in the bed watching. | 0:32:28 | 0:32:33 | |
Well, I was listening. I didn't want to watch. | 0:32:33 | 0:32:36 | |
It was a little afterwards, in 1975, | 0:32:38 | 0:32:40 | |
that Brendan found the courage to tell a local priest about the abuse. | 0:32:40 | 0:32:44 | |
The priest took him straight home to tell his parents. | 0:32:44 | 0:32:49 | |
A week or so later, | 0:32:49 | 0:32:50 | |
Brendan and his dad were driven to a local monastery. | 0:32:50 | 0:32:54 | |
Brendan was led into a room with three priests, | 0:32:54 | 0:32:57 | |
including Father John B Brady, | 0:32:57 | 0:32:59 | |
now Cardinal Brady, | 0:32:59 | 0:33:00 | |
then a 36-year-old teacher, canon lawyer and bishop's secretary. | 0:33:00 | 0:33:06 | |
Brendan was to be questioned alone. | 0:33:06 | 0:33:09 | |
His father was told to stay outside. | 0:33:09 | 0:33:11 | |
I felt alone, scared. I didn't know what was going to happen. | 0:33:11 | 0:33:14 | |
I didn't know what questions they were going to ask me. | 0:33:14 | 0:33:17 | |
I was only 14 at the time, Darragh. | 0:33:17 | 0:33:19 | |
Your father wasn't in there with you? | 0:33:19 | 0:33:21 | |
My father wasn't there with me, no. | 0:33:21 | 0:33:22 | |
'Cardinal Brady compiled the answers. | 0:33:24 | 0:33:27 | |
'Another priest asked the questions. | 0:33:27 | 0:33:29 | |
'Brendan was asked what Smyth did, | 0:33:29 | 0:33:32 | |
'but also about his own behaviour.' | 0:33:32 | 0:33:35 | |
What did they ask you? | 0:33:35 | 0:33:36 | |
"Did you ever do anything like this before with another boy | 0:33:36 | 0:33:40 | |
"or a man, a grown man?" | 0:33:40 | 0:33:42 | |
And I said no. And they said, "If not, why not?" | 0:33:42 | 0:33:46 | |
And they kept asking me, did my body change? | 0:33:46 | 0:33:49 | |
Did I get an erection? | 0:33:49 | 0:33:51 | |
They asked me then, did seed come from my body? | 0:33:53 | 0:33:56 | |
What kind of questions are they to ask a 14-year-old boy? | 0:33:57 | 0:34:00 | |
Brendan might have been shaken by the nature of the questions | 0:34:03 | 0:34:07 | |
but as the Church's own transcript confirms, | 0:34:07 | 0:34:10 | |
he was able to tell the priests the names and addresses | 0:34:10 | 0:34:14 | |
of other children Smyth was abusing | 0:34:14 | 0:34:17 | |
or who were at risk of abuse. | 0:34:17 | 0:34:19 | |
I give them the names of the other children that were on the trips. | 0:34:19 | 0:34:22 | |
There was a boy from Belfast, I gave them his name and address. | 0:34:22 | 0:34:27 | |
There was a girl from Belfast, I gave them her name and address. | 0:34:27 | 0:34:30 | |
There was a girl from Cavan, I gave them her name and address. | 0:34:30 | 0:34:34 | |
There was another boy from Cavan, I gave them his name and address, | 0:34:34 | 0:34:38 | |
and there was another boy that was his friend. | 0:34:38 | 0:34:40 | |
Were you able to be any more specific about abuse | 0:34:40 | 0:34:43 | |
you had seen or witnessed? | 0:34:43 | 0:34:45 | |
Yeah, I told them that | 0:34:45 | 0:34:48 | |
I witnessed one boy being abused. | 0:34:48 | 0:34:51 | |
-I told them that. -Who was that? | 0:34:51 | 0:34:53 | |
That was the boy from Belfast. | 0:34:53 | 0:34:55 | |
-You told them that this boy had been abused. -I did, yes. | 0:34:55 | 0:34:58 | |
I knew for a fact he was abused | 0:34:58 | 0:35:00 | |
and the other boy from Cavan, he told me he was abused | 0:35:00 | 0:35:03 | |
cos he didn't like going on the trips either. | 0:35:03 | 0:35:05 | |
The documents verify Brendan's account in black and white. | 0:35:07 | 0:35:12 | |
One of the priests came over, I'm not sure, with a Bible, | 0:35:12 | 0:35:15 | |
and he made me put my hand on the Bible and say, | 0:35:15 | 0:35:18 | |
"I, Brendan Boland, do solemnly swear | 0:35:18 | 0:35:20 | |
"I have told the truth, the whole truth, | 0:35:20 | 0:35:22 | |
"and I will speak to no-one about this meeting, | 0:35:22 | 0:35:25 | |
"only to authorised priests." | 0:35:25 | 0:35:28 | |
And then I signed it | 0:35:28 | 0:35:30 | |
and the other signature on the document was Father John B Brady, | 0:35:30 | 0:35:34 | |
the Sean Brady Cardinal of Ireland. | 0:35:34 | 0:35:36 | |
Cardinal Brady still had work to do. | 0:35:48 | 0:35:51 | |
He himself conducted a second interview, | 0:35:51 | 0:35:54 | |
this time with the Cavan boy Brendan had told him about. | 0:35:54 | 0:35:57 | |
The child corroborated Brendan's account. | 0:35:57 | 0:36:00 | |
He was sworn to secrecy. | 0:36:00 | 0:36:01 | |
Again, Cardinal Brady countersigned the oath. | 0:36:01 | 0:36:04 | |
He passed two reports to his bishop. | 0:36:04 | 0:36:06 | |
The police were told nothing - ever. | 0:36:06 | 0:36:09 | |
I've just spoken to the man | 0:36:11 | 0:36:13 | |
who as a 15-year-old boy, was also interviewed by Cardinal Sean Brady, | 0:36:13 | 0:36:19 | |
and what he's told me is shocking. | 0:36:19 | 0:36:22 | |
He says that his parents were told nothing | 0:36:22 | 0:36:26 | |
about his involvement in the secret church investigation. | 0:36:26 | 0:36:29 | |
More than that, he says his parents were not told | 0:36:29 | 0:36:33 | |
that he was being abused | 0:36:33 | 0:36:35 | |
by Father Brendan Smyth. | 0:36:35 | 0:36:37 | |
The Church, of course, said nothing | 0:36:37 | 0:36:40 | |
and he said nothing to anyone, | 0:36:40 | 0:36:42 | |
not a soul. | 0:36:42 | 0:36:44 | |
Because he was sworn to secrecy. | 0:36:44 | 0:36:47 | |
I then traced Brendan's friend from Belfast, using the same address | 0:36:48 | 0:36:53 | |
that the 14-year-old gave all those years ago. | 0:36:53 | 0:36:56 | |
I remember going up to Dublin with Brendan. | 0:36:57 | 0:37:00 | |
I think there was about five or six of us on that trip. | 0:37:00 | 0:37:04 | |
Brendan... | 0:37:05 | 0:37:07 | |
Brendan was a nice fella. | 0:37:09 | 0:37:10 | |
He was probably as petrified as I was at the time, | 0:37:10 | 0:37:13 | |
and the things... | 0:37:13 | 0:37:16 | |
You know, I just felt... | 0:37:16 | 0:37:18 | |
In many ways, I felt very guilty too | 0:37:18 | 0:37:21 | |
because I was sharing a room with this other boy | 0:37:21 | 0:37:25 | |
and Smyth and his behaviour | 0:37:25 | 0:37:27 | |
and what he would maybe want us to do | 0:37:27 | 0:37:29 | |
and the way he wanted us to behave. | 0:37:29 | 0:37:32 | |
I just, it's... | 0:37:32 | 0:37:34 | |
It's unbearable to think about it sometimes, you know. | 0:37:34 | 0:37:38 | |
When I tell him that Cardinal Brady was told in 1975 | 0:37:41 | 0:37:44 | |
that he was being abused, | 0:37:44 | 0:37:47 | |
that his name is down on paper, | 0:37:47 | 0:37:49 | |
he is horrified. | 0:37:49 | 0:37:51 | |
And then, as it transpired | 0:37:51 | 0:37:53 | |
that Brendan had mentioned me | 0:37:53 | 0:37:57 | |
and that my name and address | 0:37:57 | 0:37:59 | |
was actually on these documents as well, it was just, like... | 0:37:59 | 0:38:04 | |
It's like a knife into your chest, | 0:38:05 | 0:38:09 | |
it's like a sudden sharp pain. | 0:38:09 | 0:38:11 | |
And the reason it hurt so much | 0:38:11 | 0:38:14 | |
is that Father Brendan Smyth continued to abuse him after 1975, | 0:38:14 | 0:38:20 | |
then his sister for another seven years, | 0:38:20 | 0:38:23 | |
and four cousins abused right up until 1988. | 0:38:23 | 0:38:26 | |
Nobody came to our house, who should have came to our house | 0:38:28 | 0:38:31 | |
and warned our family or my parents | 0:38:31 | 0:38:35 | |
and said, "Look, this is what's happening, | 0:38:35 | 0:38:38 | |
"this man is involved in this, | 0:38:38 | 0:38:39 | |
"we would strictly advise you to keep him away from the house." | 0:38:39 | 0:38:43 | |
OK, maybe I had only another year's abuse to go | 0:38:43 | 0:38:47 | |
but my sister, you know - for years after that, she was abused | 0:38:47 | 0:38:51 | |
and then lo and behold, cousins after that. | 0:38:51 | 0:38:54 | |
I have spoken to all those | 0:38:59 | 0:39:01 | |
who Brendan Boland told the Church about in 1975. | 0:39:01 | 0:39:05 | |
Four of the five children had been abused by Smyth. | 0:39:05 | 0:39:10 | |
Two of them continued to be abused after that secret enquiry. | 0:39:10 | 0:39:15 | |
All say that to the best of their knowledge, | 0:39:15 | 0:39:18 | |
their families were not warned in any way about the paedophile. | 0:39:18 | 0:39:22 | |
Brendan, poor Brendan, actually thought giving this information, | 0:39:25 | 0:39:29 | |
he was going to protect me, he was going to protect other people, | 0:39:29 | 0:39:33 | |
and thinking this was going to be the end of it. | 0:39:33 | 0:39:35 | |
And by God, it is far from the end. | 0:39:35 | 0:39:37 | |
Cardinal Brady's own career took off after 1975, | 0:39:40 | 0:39:45 | |
first away to Rome, | 0:39:45 | 0:39:46 | |
and then in 1997, made Primate of All Ireland, | 0:39:46 | 0:39:50 | |
the senior Catholic in the country. | 0:39:50 | 0:39:53 | |
By his own account, he never failed to protect any child. | 0:39:53 | 0:39:56 | |
If I found myself in the situation | 0:39:56 | 0:39:59 | |
where I was aware | 0:39:59 | 0:40:03 | |
that my failure to act | 0:40:03 | 0:40:06 | |
had allowed | 0:40:06 | 0:40:08 | |
or meant that other children were abused, | 0:40:08 | 0:40:13 | |
well then, I think I would resign. | 0:40:13 | 0:40:15 | |
'I'm writing what's called a "right of reply" letter to Cardinal Brady, | 0:40:18 | 0:40:22 | |
'telling him what we have discovered, point by point. | 0:40:22 | 0:40:25 | |
'I want to know why | 0:40:25 | 0:40:26 | |
'he didn't make sure the children he'd been told about were protected | 0:40:26 | 0:40:30 | |
'and I want to know why he and the Church seemed to minimise his role | 0:40:30 | 0:40:35 | |
'when it is plain that he carried out the investigation into Smyth. | 0:40:35 | 0:40:39 | |
'When limited news of the church investigation | 0:40:39 | 0:40:42 | |
'first broke two years ago, the Church called him an note-taker. | 0:40:42 | 0:40:45 | |
'He said he was a notary without powers, who did his job.' | 0:40:45 | 0:40:49 | |
I insist again, I did act | 0:40:51 | 0:40:53 | |
and acted effectively within that enquiry, | 0:40:53 | 0:40:56 | |
to produce the grounds for removing Father Smyth from ministry | 0:40:56 | 0:41:00 | |
and specifically, it was underlined | 0:41:00 | 0:41:02 | |
that he was not to hear confessions. | 0:41:02 | 0:41:05 | |
And that was very important. | 0:41:05 | 0:41:07 | |
The ban on Smyth wasn't enforced. | 0:41:10 | 0:41:12 | |
Here he is four years later at a special mass for the sick | 0:41:12 | 0:41:16 | |
and when Cardinal Brady says he was a notary, | 0:41:16 | 0:41:19 | |
his role was in fact that of an investigator, | 0:41:19 | 0:41:22 | |
according to his own handwritten note. | 0:41:22 | 0:41:25 | |
"I was dispatched to investigate the complaint." | 0:41:25 | 0:41:29 | |
'I needed to find a clear path | 0:41:32 | 0:41:35 | |
'through the archaic and often confusing world of canon law, | 0:41:35 | 0:41:39 | |
'the church law that Cardinal Brady was versed in | 0:41:39 | 0:41:42 | |
'and that he applied to this 1975 case. | 0:41:42 | 0:41:45 | |
'My guide is Rev Thomas Doyle, a world-renowned expert in the field.' | 0:41:45 | 0:41:50 | |
He was the investigator. | 0:41:52 | 0:41:53 | |
He was deputed to investigate, to lead the investigation, | 0:41:53 | 0:41:57 | |
to make sure that it had taken place. | 0:41:57 | 0:41:59 | |
Not simply a note-taker? | 0:41:59 | 0:42:01 | |
No, not simply... that's minimising what he actually was. | 0:42:01 | 0:42:05 | |
He did take notes | 0:42:05 | 0:42:06 | |
but he also prepared the report | 0:42:06 | 0:42:09 | |
and he authenticated the report. | 0:42:09 | 0:42:11 | |
You know that Cardinal Brady insists he did his job, | 0:42:11 | 0:42:14 | |
that he passed the information he had | 0:42:14 | 0:42:16 | |
up to his bishop. Did he do his job? | 0:42:16 | 0:42:18 | |
Just to say that I did my duty, | 0:42:18 | 0:42:20 | |
I just followed orders, I passed it up the chain, | 0:42:20 | 0:42:22 | |
is completely inadequate. | 0:42:22 | 0:42:24 | |
I mean, if he didn't do it, he should have told the bishop, | 0:42:24 | 0:42:27 | |
"The other families need to be notified, | 0:42:27 | 0:42:30 | |
"if you won't do it, I will do it." | 0:42:30 | 0:42:32 | |
The man was not a robot. | 0:42:32 | 0:42:33 | |
And these are human beings he's dealing with here. | 0:42:33 | 0:42:36 | |
So, you know, the information was very clear, | 0:42:36 | 0:42:39 | |
the testimony that Brendan apparently gave to them | 0:42:39 | 0:42:42 | |
was very, very clear and detailed | 0:42:42 | 0:42:44 | |
as well as the names of the others. | 0:42:44 | 0:42:46 | |
These are the ones we know about. | 0:42:46 | 0:42:48 | |
There could well have been a number of others. | 0:42:48 | 0:42:51 | |
That could have been prevented but it was not prevented. | 0:42:51 | 0:42:54 | |
That in itself is criminal behaviour. | 0:42:54 | 0:42:56 | |
Because the bishops, the priest, Brady, they knew | 0:42:56 | 0:42:59 | |
that this man was an abuser of children. | 0:42:59 | 0:43:02 | |
It wasn't that he was, as I said, | 0:43:07 | 0:43:09 | |
slapping their wrists with a ruler in class, | 0:43:09 | 0:43:11 | |
he was sexually assaulting them. | 0:43:11 | 0:43:13 | |
Nothing happened. Again, a cover-up. | 0:43:13 | 0:43:16 | |
Ultimately, all power in the Catholic Church resides in Rome | 0:43:27 | 0:43:31 | |
with the Pope, who appoints all the bishops, | 0:43:31 | 0:43:34 | |
all the cardinals. | 0:43:34 | 0:43:36 | |
'This is one hierarchy which doesn't pretend to be anything else. | 0:43:41 | 0:43:46 | |
'Estimates vary, but so far, the abuse scandals have cost the Church | 0:43:47 | 0:43:52 | |
'about £3 billion - and counting.' | 0:43:52 | 0:43:55 | |
'Much more vital damage has been done to its reputation | 0:43:58 | 0:44:02 | |
'and to its moral authority.' | 0:44:02 | 0:44:04 | |
'This day, senior church figures from around the globe are gathering | 0:44:09 | 0:44:13 | |
'for a conference in Rome, looking at ways of rooting out child abuse. | 0:44:13 | 0:44:17 | |
'Cardinal Sean Brady heads a small Irish delegation. | 0:44:19 | 0:44:22 | |
'I've been told that even within the church, | 0:44:22 | 0:44:25 | |
'Cardinal Brady is seen as a gravely weakened leader. | 0:44:25 | 0:44:28 | |
'I don't expect to speak to him | 0:44:30 | 0:44:33 | |
'until he has had time to respond to my letter, | 0:44:33 | 0:44:36 | |
'but I do want to speak to this man, | 0:44:36 | 0:44:38 | |
'Monsignor Charles Scicluna. | 0:44:38 | 0:44:41 | |
'He is one of the most powerful officials in the Catholic Church, | 0:44:41 | 0:44:45 | |
'the chief prosecutor. | 0:44:45 | 0:44:47 | |
'Having examined 4,000 cases of clerical abuse, | 0:44:47 | 0:44:50 | |
'he says accountability and truth are the only way forward.' | 0:44:50 | 0:44:55 | |
We need to move on from a culture of silence, | 0:44:57 | 0:45:02 | |
and where it is, we need to denounce it for what it is. | 0:45:02 | 0:45:06 | |
It is an enemy of truth | 0:45:06 | 0:45:09 | |
and an enemy of justice. | 0:45:09 | 0:45:12 | |
'I want to know what he thinks about Cardinal Brady.' | 0:45:14 | 0:45:18 | |
Cardinal Sean Brady was told in 1975 | 0:45:18 | 0:45:22 | |
that a young boy was being abused at that particular point. | 0:45:22 | 0:45:26 | |
He was given that man's name, the boy's name, | 0:45:26 | 0:45:29 | |
that boy's address, where he lived, | 0:45:29 | 0:45:31 | |
and yet, that boy was abused for another year. | 0:45:31 | 0:45:35 | |
His sister was abused for seven years. | 0:45:35 | 0:45:38 | |
His four first cousins were abused until 1988, | 0:45:38 | 0:45:42 | |
many years past the 1975 information | 0:45:42 | 0:45:46 | |
that Cardinal Sean Brady, now Primate of All Ireland, | 0:45:46 | 0:45:50 | |
was given that information. | 0:45:50 | 0:45:52 | |
What you're telling me... | 0:45:53 | 0:45:55 | |
..helps us emphasise the fact | 0:45:58 | 0:46:00 | |
that when we talk about an adequate response | 0:46:00 | 0:46:05 | |
and we're talking about abuse happening, | 0:46:05 | 0:46:08 | |
it cannot be a delayed response. | 0:46:08 | 0:46:11 | |
The response to disclosure | 0:46:11 | 0:46:14 | |
should be immediate and effective, | 0:46:14 | 0:46:18 | |
and that is why the law was changed in 2010, | 0:46:18 | 0:46:21 | |
because we are on a learning curve, | 0:46:21 | 0:46:23 | |
giving the bishop authority | 0:46:23 | 0:46:26 | |
to remove a priest, | 0:46:26 | 0:46:29 | |
as a precautionary measure, immediately. | 0:46:29 | 0:46:32 | |
Cardinal Sean Brady said in 2009 | 0:46:32 | 0:46:34 | |
that he would resign if he thought that any failing on his part | 0:46:34 | 0:46:38 | |
meant or lead to any child being abused. He said he would resign. | 0:46:38 | 0:46:41 | |
Should he not resign now? | 0:46:41 | 0:46:43 | |
I think that is a question you have to put to Cardinal Brady. | 0:46:43 | 0:46:46 | |
You are the chief prosecutor, as such, in terms of canon law. | 0:46:46 | 0:46:50 | |
Do you not have an opinion on this? | 0:46:50 | 0:46:52 | |
I have my opinion, and I will keep it to myself. | 0:46:52 | 0:46:55 | |
This is about accountability. You've spoken about accountability today. | 0:46:55 | 0:46:59 | |
Yes, and I think that what I've said about accountability | 0:46:59 | 0:47:03 | |
is that the Holy See has a duty | 0:47:03 | 0:47:07 | |
to bring bishops to accountability. | 0:47:07 | 0:47:10 | |
It's something that needs to be done and needs to be effected, | 0:47:10 | 0:47:14 | |
but this is where I stop with my comments on an individual case. | 0:47:14 | 0:47:18 | |
Victims say the key is | 0:47:18 | 0:47:20 | |
to get individuals, to get bishops, to get the church | 0:47:20 | 0:47:23 | |
to acknowledge its responsibility. | 0:47:23 | 0:47:26 | |
You've heard that time and time again. Here's another case | 0:47:26 | 0:47:29 | |
where a bishop, a cardinal, is not acknowledging his responsibility, | 0:47:29 | 0:47:34 | |
his personal responsibility. | 0:47:34 | 0:47:36 | |
I repeat that | 0:47:36 | 0:47:39 | |
this is something that should be put to Cardinal Brady directly. | 0:47:39 | 0:47:44 | |
And I will talk to him, because he is in town, | 0:47:44 | 0:47:49 | |
about what you have told me. | 0:47:49 | 0:47:51 | |
I will bring your concerns to him, | 0:47:51 | 0:47:55 | |
because I think that is a duty I have in charity. | 0:47:55 | 0:47:58 | |
Thank you. | 0:47:58 | 0:48:00 | |
Later, a special prayer vigil | 0:48:12 | 0:48:14 | |
seeking forgiveness for the sins of the Church against children. | 0:48:14 | 0:48:18 | |
A solemn ceremony | 0:48:18 | 0:48:21 | |
where Cardinal Brady makes his only public utterance of the week. | 0:48:21 | 0:48:25 | |
But you are a god of pardon, | 0:48:25 | 0:48:28 | |
gracious and compassionate, | 0:48:28 | 0:48:31 | |
slow to anger | 0:48:31 | 0:48:33 | |
and rich in mercy. | 0:48:33 | 0:48:34 | |
I don't think anyone could doubt | 0:48:46 | 0:48:48 | |
the sincerity of the prayers of Cardinal Sean Brady, | 0:48:48 | 0:48:51 | |
seeking forgiveness. The problem he has, | 0:48:51 | 0:48:53 | |
and the problem the Church has, is that many people, | 0:48:53 | 0:48:56 | |
especially those affected by what he did or didn't do back in 1975, | 0:48:56 | 0:49:00 | |
they want more than his prayers. | 0:49:00 | 0:49:03 | |
They want him to acknowledge | 0:49:03 | 0:49:05 | |
his own personal responsibility for what happened. | 0:49:05 | 0:49:08 | |
They want his resignation. | 0:49:08 | 0:49:10 | |
We live in the age of apology, | 0:49:10 | 0:49:12 | |
so that watching the church learning, and obviously, | 0:49:12 | 0:49:15 | |
they got a great deal of help from PR companies in how to do this, | 0:49:15 | 0:49:18 | |
how to present themselves as totally sorry, | 0:49:18 | 0:49:21 | |
and sorry became the easiest word to say. | 0:49:21 | 0:49:24 | |
"Apologise, apologise." | 0:49:24 | 0:49:26 | |
But everyone was watching something else. | 0:49:26 | 0:49:28 | |
Everyone was watching that they were not coming with full disclosure. | 0:49:28 | 0:49:33 | |
And the full disclosure was | 0:49:33 | 0:49:35 | |
that they knew that priests were moved from place to place | 0:49:35 | 0:49:39 | |
with a large number of other priests | 0:49:39 | 0:49:41 | |
knowing exactly what the issues were. | 0:49:41 | 0:49:44 | |
And parents watching this knew | 0:49:44 | 0:49:46 | |
that was not something parents would have done in Ireland | 0:49:46 | 0:49:50 | |
to other parents | 0:49:50 | 0:49:51 | |
and the church did it to them. | 0:49:51 | 0:49:53 | |
'Cardinal Brady never replied to the questions in my letter | 0:49:54 | 0:49:58 | |
'so I went and put them to him directly.' | 0:49:58 | 0:50:00 | |
Cardinal Brady, Darragh MacIntyre from the BBC. Cardinal Brady, | 0:50:01 | 0:50:05 | |
-I'd like to ask a few questions, if you don't mind. -No, no, I'm not... | 0:50:05 | 0:50:08 | |
-Thanks very much, but I'm not ready... -Cardinal Brady, | 0:50:08 | 0:50:11 | |
you said you would resign if you thought any action of yours | 0:50:11 | 0:50:14 | |
-had led to a child being abused. -No, I'm not... | 0:50:14 | 0:50:17 | |
You know that children were abused, | 0:50:17 | 0:50:19 | |
in part because you failed to protect them. | 0:50:19 | 0:50:22 | |
No. I did what I was there to do. | 0:50:22 | 0:50:26 | |
-I took the evidence. -You had names and addresses, Cardinal, | 0:50:26 | 0:50:30 | |
-of children who were being abused or at risk of being abused. -Please... | 0:50:30 | 0:50:34 | |
And you did not protect them. | 0:50:34 | 0:50:37 | |
Sorry, lads. Excuse me. | 0:50:37 | 0:50:39 | |
-Cardinal Brady! -Sorry, lads. | 0:50:43 | 0:50:44 | |
Cardinal Brady, was the protection of the church's reputation | 0:50:44 | 0:50:48 | |
more important than the protection of the children? | 0:50:48 | 0:50:50 | |
You had the names and addresses of children who were being abused | 0:50:50 | 0:50:54 | |
or who were at risk of being abused. | 0:50:54 | 0:50:55 | |
You failed to protect them, Cardinal. | 0:50:55 | 0:50:58 | |
He's, again... | 0:51:04 | 0:51:06 | |
..deliberately, wilfully, | 0:51:07 | 0:51:11 | |
refusing to take responsibility | 0:51:11 | 0:51:14 | |
for his actions, for his inactions, | 0:51:14 | 0:51:17 | |
which left children exposed to abuse. | 0:51:17 | 0:51:19 | |
So resplendent with power and authority | 0:51:29 | 0:51:32 | |
was the Catholic Church in Ireland, | 0:51:32 | 0:51:34 | |
its fall from grace was bound to be spectacular. | 0:51:34 | 0:51:37 | |
But no-one could ever have imagined | 0:51:37 | 0:51:40 | |
that the Catholic Church would be so trenchantly criticised | 0:51:40 | 0:51:43 | |
by an Irish Prime Minister. | 0:51:43 | 0:51:45 | |
The rape and the torture of children | 0:51:48 | 0:51:51 | |
were downplayed or managed | 0:51:51 | 0:51:53 | |
to uphold instead | 0:51:53 | 0:51:56 | |
the primacy of the institution, | 0:51:56 | 0:51:58 | |
its power, its standing | 0:51:58 | 0:51:59 | |
and its reputation. | 0:51:59 | 0:52:01 | |
The Irish government has closed its embassy to the Vatican. | 0:52:02 | 0:52:07 | |
Dublin and the Holy See want to play down tensions, | 0:52:07 | 0:52:10 | |
yet it is clear that the Church is now having to pay a price | 0:52:10 | 0:52:14 | |
for the grip it held Ireland in for so long. | 0:52:14 | 0:52:18 | |
And as the Cardinal Brady case illustrates, | 0:52:18 | 0:52:21 | |
it is not finished accounting for its sins just yet. | 0:52:21 | 0:52:24 | |
Holy Roman Catholic Ireland, | 0:52:24 | 0:52:26 | |
the Ireland that you and I grew up with, where is it now? | 0:52:26 | 0:52:30 | |
It doesn't exist any more | 0:52:30 | 0:52:32 | |
and people have discovered | 0:52:32 | 0:52:34 | |
that in abandoning their relationship to the official Church | 0:52:34 | 0:52:37 | |
and their loyalty to it, they've lost almost nothing. | 0:52:37 | 0:52:41 | |
They haven't lost their faith? | 0:52:41 | 0:52:42 | |
No, if you ask them questions about, for example, the next life | 0:52:42 | 0:52:46 | |
or eternal life, or other matters, | 0:52:46 | 0:52:48 | |
if you ask them about religion, | 0:52:48 | 0:52:50 | |
I think, you could find that maybe very little has changed, | 0:52:50 | 0:52:53 | |
but in relationship to the Church, everything has changed. | 0:52:53 | 0:52:57 | |
Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord with thee, blessed art thou... | 0:53:01 | 0:53:05 | |
Church attendance has more than halved across Ireland | 0:53:05 | 0:53:08 | |
but this ancient ritual is still very much alive. | 0:53:08 | 0:53:12 | |
For more than 500 years, believers have celebrated the New Year | 0:53:12 | 0:53:16 | |
with a procession to Doon Well at Termon in Donegal. | 0:53:16 | 0:53:19 | |
Hail Mary full of grace, the Lord with thee, | 0:53:19 | 0:53:22 | |
blessed art thou amongst women... | 0:53:22 | 0:53:24 | |
The ceremony ends with the blessing of the holy water of Doon Well. | 0:53:30 | 0:53:35 | |
The water is said to have special healing powers. | 0:53:40 | 0:53:43 | |
It is in great demand. | 0:53:43 | 0:53:46 | |
-Happy New Year, everybody. -APPLAUSE | 0:53:47 | 0:53:49 | |
The faith lives on in the people. | 0:53:49 | 0:53:51 | |
This faith is not dependent | 0:53:51 | 0:53:55 | |
on bishops and cardinals | 0:53:55 | 0:53:58 | |
or the hierarchical structures. | 0:53:58 | 0:54:00 | |
They're aware of it | 0:54:00 | 0:54:02 | |
but this is a very much, I'd use the word "earthed" faith. | 0:54:02 | 0:54:07 | |
# Lady of Knock | 0:54:07 | 0:54:09 | |
# My queen of peace | 0:54:09 | 0:54:13 | |
# And the lamb will conquer | 0:54:13 | 0:54:17 | |
# And the woman clothed in the sun | 0:54:17 | 0:54:21 | |
# Will shine her light on everyone | 0:54:21 | 0:54:26 | |
# Yes, the lamb will conquer | 0:54:27 | 0:54:31 | |
# And the woman clothed in the sun | 0:54:31 | 0:54:35 | |
# Will shine her light on everyone. # | 0:54:35 | 0:54:40 | |
In Donegal, the policeman | 0:54:57 | 0:54:59 | |
who investigated the Father Eugene Greene case | 0:54:59 | 0:55:02 | |
remains sceptical the Church will ever deal honestly with abuse. | 0:55:02 | 0:55:07 | |
People who knew about this, | 0:55:07 | 0:55:08 | |
I find them so revolting | 0:55:08 | 0:55:11 | |
because it's them, you know, that did something | 0:55:11 | 0:55:14 | |
and I believe they protected an image | 0:55:14 | 0:55:17 | |
rather than protecting a child, | 0:55:17 | 0:55:20 | |
and I believe that's where the whole fraud lies, | 0:55:20 | 0:55:24 | |
that the premise of trust was used | 0:55:24 | 0:55:27 | |
to bury the most graphic horror. | 0:55:27 | 0:55:30 | |
This would not be tolerated in any civilised society | 0:55:30 | 0:55:34 | |
and for any institution to use its power to bury this horror, | 0:55:34 | 0:55:38 | |
I believe those people should be sent to jail, basically, | 0:55:38 | 0:55:41 | |
for those grave crimes. | 0:55:41 | 0:55:43 | |
And until that day arrives that everybody is equal, | 0:55:43 | 0:55:47 | |
then I think we're only shadow-boxing with this. | 0:55:47 | 0:55:50 | |
Still others, like Martin Gallagher, | 0:56:00 | 0:56:02 | |
live with the daily reminders of the damage to their lives. | 0:56:02 | 0:56:06 | |
'This part of my life, I'll never know anything about. | 0:56:08 | 0:56:12 | |
'I know that I was very happy in my childhood before this. | 0:56:12 | 0:56:16 | |
'I got on great with everybody and it was fun, | 0:56:16 | 0:56:20 | |
'like normal children have. | 0:56:20 | 0:56:22 | |
'But from the age of 12 on, | 0:56:22 | 0:56:26 | |
'I don't know where I could be or what I could have been. | 0:56:26 | 0:56:30 | |
'I might have been just still the ordinary Martin, | 0:56:30 | 0:56:35 | |
'but without this cross to carry | 0:56:35 | 0:56:38 | |
'every day of my life.' | 0:56:38 | 0:56:39 | |
For the first time since their ordeal almost 40 years ago, | 0:56:49 | 0:56:52 | |
Brendan meets his old friend from Belfast. | 0:56:52 | 0:56:56 | |
There may be a future for them | 0:56:56 | 0:56:58 | |
supporting each other through the memories of an appalling experience | 0:56:58 | 0:57:02 | |
that no child should ever endure. | 0:57:02 | 0:57:04 | |
Oh, my God! Buddy, how are you? | 0:57:04 | 0:57:06 | |
How are you doing? | 0:57:09 | 0:57:10 | |
Oh, it's so good to see you. | 0:57:13 | 0:57:15 | |
And you, and you. | 0:57:15 | 0:57:16 | |
-It's 38 years now. 38 years. -I know. | 0:57:16 | 0:57:19 | |
I know, brother. I'd take all that. | 0:57:19 | 0:57:22 | |
-How you keeping? -Not too bad. You? | 0:57:25 | 0:57:28 | |
I'm all right. | 0:57:28 | 0:57:29 | |
-You've been through the wars too. -And you. | 0:57:33 | 0:57:36 | |
I thought I'd saved you. | 0:57:36 | 0:57:38 | |
Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd | 0:58:37 | 0:58:40 |