My Child the Rioter Wonderland

Hello. It's Liam Bretherton's mum. Is Carol about please? Maybe you

could help me. We're on our way to London now. He's in the Court of

Appeals. Is it the big one, we don't know which one it is? On the

Strand. OK, thank you. Bye. Thanks. Bye. Yeah, it's on the Strand, that

one. I thought it were. Just make CLASSICAL MUSIC PLAYS

The question people asked over and over again last week is "Where are

the parents?" Why aren't they keeping the rioting kids indoors.

Join the dots and you can have a clear idea about why some of these

young people were behaving so badly. Either there was no-one at home,

they didn't much care or they'd lost control. Thank you darling.

we want to have any hope of mending our broken society, family and

parenting is where we have got to start. You sit in the middle.

Families matter. Happy?, are you On Monday, 8th auling, 2011,

Tottenham was into its third night of rioting and crowds had begun to

gather in nearby Hackney. I'd been to an appointment earlier in the

day near to Hackney Town Hall. By the time I got back, there were row

afro afro of police looking like gladiators. It -- row afro, --

after row, after row of police officers looking like gladiators.

You put on Sky TV and it was totally surreal. You looked up, out

the living room window and you could see a riot taking place. You

turned to the television screen and you could see the same thing

exactly on the telly. Lots of noise, helicopters and the smell of it as

well, you know, you could smell the riot too, from the burning. It was

shocking because it did not seem like home. It didn't seem like ham

any that I've known for all these years. Liz lives on the Penbury

estate, on the front line of the rioting in Hackney. I have five

children living at home with me. Abigail didn't really know anything.

She's only two. Romeo seemed to think it's more like cartoons or

something like this, something exciting's going on. Oliver kept

asking me "Are people going to come up here and put fire in our door,

mum? "Bill just wanted to go. He wanted us to go. He wanted to pack

the bags and go. "Let's go now." What did you say to Daniel? I said,

whatever you do don't get involved Bit third day the rioting had

spread out of the city into the suburbs. Do you remember the time

when you first realised there were riots going on in England? It was

actually my mum texted me. She said you know, tpwauz was happening in

Croydon, which we know quite well. I put on the television. That was

the first time that I actually knew anything about it. I don't pay much

attention to the news. It doesn't really interest me. I don't know

how... I think everyone was talking about it. I found about it almost

straight away. What was your reaction to it? Honestly, it's far

away. It's not going to affect me, so I just brushed it off and didn't

think about it. Then it got closer to home and then yeah, sort of went

down. Due try and stop Lee going out? -- did you try and stop Lee

going out? I think I did say something earlier on in the evening,

I go to bed quite early. Lee went out after I was in bed, so I wasn't

really aware. The curiosity was the main thing at first, to see just

how out of control things could get, like, just how much anarchy could

break out before the police go right, we need to step in, this is

getting out of hand. I was just speck Tateing. Not a lot was going

on. Suddenly everything changed. I think he opened the store. People

were going out under the shutters, then going out. It was pandemonium.

It was impossible not to get swept up in it. You saw people disappear

in a shop, come back five, ten minutes later, TVs under their arms,

games soles. It was exciting. It was... Never really thought about

it that way, it was quite enjoyable being there. It was almost like a

party. Everyone was unified for a common goal, which was to get into

a store or get as much stuff as they can. Everyone was rejoicing

and at how much they had and like, basically, like, how much of a good

MUSIC By day four, the rioting had spread

beyond the capital to most of England's major cities. I get a

text on my phone off my friend saying "Where are you? It's started.

It's going off in Manchester." I've set off straight away to go to town.

I knew from how severe it had been in the other cities that this was

going to change society, hopefully for the better. But regardless of

that, it would be remembered. It would form a part of the history of

the 21st century. The spar was ransacked within ten minutes,

completely empty. People were filling their pockets, filling bags.

People had brought bags with them to fill. Once people had filled

their pockets, filled whatever they had, took what they could carry

with them, they were helping other people fill their pockets and take

the loot away. I seen a few people who I recognised, people who I knew

really well, who I knew were good, honest people, quite a few of them

had jobs, some of them were in uni like me. When the police turned up,

we've all done a runner. I've caught up with me friends. Slipped

my balaclava low enough for them to recognise me, pulled it back up.

Started chatting away, idly, "How's your mum, how's your dad?" Better

speed up. The police are coming. How long have you been here? It was

the most surreal reunion in the LIGHT HEARTED CLASSICAL MUSIC PLAYS

It was probably the only time I have ever seen London united in one

kind of way, because not every area or ends as we say get along. The

north get along with the north sides. And east get along with the

east. If it was like that in London, it would be a much better place,

trust mef. -- me. What did you do? Erm... Well, I got charged with

arson. And, not going to go into what I did, but, it was very stupid,

trust me. Very stupid. Was it very stupid, David? Yeah, I mean he's in

front of a CCTV camera and there's something alight by a parking metre.

So in front of the camera he tips, he and his friend tip a cannon

rubbish on top of the fire. I mean, it's dumb, stupid, dumb and you

know, it could have... Escalated. It could have spread, unlikely, but

it could have done. Why did you go down? I went down to try and make

some money, but there was no money to be made in Camden, trust me.

What do you mean "making money"? Making money. How do you feel

hearing him describe that intention? It's quite shocking

really. As I listen to it I still think he doesn't have any sense

that he thinks there's anything wrong in doing it? Obviously there

is something wrong in doing it but... I don't think you feel

particularly there's anything wrong. Well,... Same way I don't think the

bankers felt they were doing anything wrong when taking high

risks. There's a different morality, like if you can get away with it,

whatever you get away with is OK. I think that's part of the culture.

If you can get away with it fine. It's getting caught that's the

When did you next see Lei? That evening. I was at home waiting. I

was quite worried, you know where is he? Got a knock on the door

about 1.30 and he had a few bags. had like two pairs of frainers, a

bag -- trainers, a bag, a T-shirt, head phones, I think that was it

yeah. What did you think? I thought good on him. I did. In hindsight it

probably wasn't the best thing to think at the time. What did do you

with them? Just threw them on the floor in my room. Just, as far as I

was concerned they were mine now, just add to the pile of stuff that

was already there. How do you feel hearing that?

Do you regret not stopping him? he knows I would have wrung his

neck. Yeah. He He knows that. you wrung his neck? I haven't, no.

It's shocking. I felt pretty untouchable after a

while. I thought, yeah, they can't do anything. I am going to get away

with this. I can push the boundaries further. What boundaries

I'd rather not say. Yeah, I'd rather not say. Is there anything

that you regret doing? Yeah. What? I wish I'd done more. I wish I'd

made even more out of the opportunity. Can you be specific?

No. Liam, was there a part of you that was cross with him for going

down? No. No, we'd have gone ourselves if we were young enough.

Don't get cross with Ryan. No he's a good lad. He's on the right

agenda. We know he's not out to cause trouble. He wants to make a

difference. How would you have felt if Ryan hadn't taken part in the

riots? I would have thought what's up with him. You're 18, you're

angry. You're being charged �20,000 to get educated, you need to be

angry lad. What's going to be achieved politically by nicking

some trainers? It's a redistribution of wealth in a way,

isn't it? Come on. When I seen that night I didn't see a crowd of yobs

attacking random shops. I seen the disenfranchised members of the

working classes attacking the shops and the Government institutions.

Isn't that just your interpretation of burglary? Robbing trainers isn't

political. The reasons for robbing It is absolutely disgusting. What

are those parents doing? Those children should be at home. They

shouldn't be out here causing mayhem. They are feral rats.

Let me be absolutely clear, those responsible for this violence and

looting will be made feel the consequences of their Arxz. Arxz --

actions. I have this clear message to those

people responsible por this criminality -- for this criminality.

You will feel the full force of the In South London, Lee was working as

a junior manager at a well-known DIY store.

I had a text from one of the boys to say the police had arrived at

work and that they had arrested Lee and I looked out the window and I

saw a crowd of police coming across the green and I thought, "Oh my

God." I wanted to hide. I was asleep upstairs and mum was

running around the the house and I woke up saying, "What's the

matter?". There was a ring on the doorbell and I thought I'm not

going to answer it. No one is here. They knocked again and shouted

through the better box, "If you don't open the door, we will break

it down." Mum ran downstairs. They came in and we had to come

into the living room with my youngest son and then I realised

obviously that Lee was there and I could hear them in Lee's room and I

thought well - it was upsetting. I did have a little cry.

REPORTER: Weren't you cross with him? No, not cross with him. I

think that he was really, really stupid.

It is not the first time I have done something stupid. People do

stupid things. It happens, you know. Daft. And there is that loud ring

at the doorbell like somebody wants to break the bell. They said he set

fire to something near a parking meter. I got scared at first

because I didn't know what arson was yeah until I committed it. I

heard that people can get life imprisonment which scared me

because... Where did you hear that from? The police officer. Yeah,

apparently you can get life for arson, I didn't know that.

For days after The Riots, Liz's son Daniel promise d his mum that he

hadn't been involved. Someone knocked on my door. That

sort of a tap. The door opened and there were a load of police there.

From then, it didn't really twig to me that it could be to do with the

riot. I thought a warrant for Daniel, why? And then they showed

me this warrant and mentioned his name and on it it said "violent

disorder.". CCTV pictures clearly showed Daniel smashing up a paving

slab while people around him through rocks at the police.

believed him. I know when you are a teenager, you go through stresses

and strains and you get upset and you rebel and you get angry and I

know that's normal and everything, but I want you to tell me the truth.

Just tell me the truth and even if I don't like it, I will still stick

by you. But he didn't do that. The police cells continue to fill

up, courts like this one have been working through the night. I didn't

get to go to court because they went to court very quickly and so

then I was scrambling to find out where he was.

Fabiana pleaded guilty to arson. How did you feel about him being in

prison? I wasn't happy. I had another side to me that can detach

from it. I thought, "When you don't find your own self discipline it

tends to come from the outside." I thought it may not be a bad thing

for him. It's a wake-up call. REPORTER: Were you cross with him?

Well, he is in prison and being cross isn't going to serve any

purpose. It just polarize s things. I don't see that as being useful.

Yeah, I was pisesed with him, but I wouldn't express it that way.

Daniel's only hope of getting out of jail was if if his mother

allowed their home to be used as his bail address.

I rang the police stags -- station and asked to speak to my son. I

said, "I want you to hear from me. I don't want anybody else to tell

you this. I am not going to let you come back home." I was angry and

upset and I wanted to be tough on him.

REPORTER: And what did that mean for him? It meant that he would be

going to Feltham in the morning. With public anger running high,

newspapers began running appeals to track down those responsible. In

Wolverhampton, Sharon Corns opened her local paper to find a centre

spread covered with pictures of her daughter, Danielle. When she saw

what had been written about her, Danielle was horrified.

Her role in the looting is brave, but clear. She stoops to look at a

doorway as if she is a the front of the queue on the first day of the

Christmas sales. In the split second, she disappears through the

entrance and into the darkness behind the bend. 30 seconds later

she emerges with items in both hands. She said, "This is all wrong.

Why is he saying this about me?" She said I need to go into the

local police station and explain this because they were more or less

saying if you know this girl, phone the number. We took the newspaper

in and I said, "My daughter has been pictured in the newspaper. She

is is here to explain why her picture is in there." They said,

"Oh good.". On Tuesday, 9 August, Danielle had been shopping in

Wolverhampton when rioting broke out.

And then Danielle rings me just after 4pm saying that it is just

chaos up here. She said, "I'm having bottles thrown at me." There

were fireworks going off. And then she had to get through

this alleyway where the police were putting them down side streets

towards the bus bus station to get the crowds through and she was told

to go down Queen Street and this is where it happened.

The shops had already been broken into and looted, you know and she

just approached the one shop which was men's wear. She went up to the

window and that's where she went up to have a closer look. Being a

curious teenager, that's when the shutter falls. She said everyone

was going mad and picked up two odd trainers. This man lifts the

shutter up and Danielle comes out. You can actually see her fling the

one trainer and drop the other and take the gloves off. Danielle's

explanation seemed to satisfy the police.

She was in there 15 minutes and the police officer said, "No, that's

fine." We are after the more serious criminals that went up

there to loot the shops that day. She explained to us, CID will be in

touch in a couple of weeks. And then the next morning, they raided

my house. Came in straightaway, put the handcuffs on my daughter. I

said, "Is there a need for that?" He said it was for his safety. They

took her to Wolverhampton Police Station. Danielle phones me and

said, "Mum, they're putting three burglaries on me." I said "well,

are you all right?" I knew she wasn't. She says "I

don't know what to do. She saysI can't stand it in this cell and

I've slit my wrists." I phoned Wolverhampton Police

Station and I said, "I need to know my daughter is OK." They said "yeah,

she is fine." There is a police officer sitting with her with the

door open. She will be up Wolverhampton Magistrates' Court in

For two or three months, it was a period where I lived in fear and

worry and paranoia to a certain extent believing that you're going

to get that knock on the door any minute.

REPORTER: Have the police been in touch at all?

But I'm prepared anyway. I have got my bag full of clothes ready. I

will become a fugitive. I will go on the run?

REPORTER: Really? If I have. wouldn't let him? No. The first

thing I would do is go to Northern Ireland because it is part of

Britain. For Northern Ireland you can enter Europe, the the border

with Europe. You can go to any part of the world and they will have no

idea. I have planned. This is part of the thing when you live in

paranoia and you spend a lot of time thinking.

Are you keeping that plan a secret? Not now!

LAUGHTER We understand that a serving

soldier, Liam Bretherton appeared in court 0 years old, he is -- 20-

year-old old, he is charged with burglary, but denies the charges.

Liam Bretherton's mother first heard of her son's involvement in

The Riots on the day he was arrested.

I was in work and I got a phone call off Liam saying I am in the

shop around the corner from me. He locked me in and he phoned the

police. I said, "Why?" So I run across and I knocked on the door

and he locked the door and he said, "You can't come in." I said, "I am

his mum." I realised from when the police came that he had brought

this guitar from The Riots so I just told him to go and be truthful.

I said, "Just about go and be truthful." And that's what he did

The Riots hit Manchester while the 19-year-old paratrooper was at home

from leave. He and and two friends went down down to see what was

happening. A masked man appeared Liam with a guitar and he bought it

for �20. But the next day, Liam discovered

it was left-handed, but worth nearly �2,000 and tried to sell it

in his local music shop. Why weren't you angry with him? Well, I

was angry with him when it first happened because you have to know

Liam. You have to know Liam. You have to know what kind of boy,

young man he is. But he is the kind of man who will try and sell a

stolen guitar? It was a one off. It was a one off. It was a one stupid

mistake. And he has got caught up in it and somebody offered it to

him and he took it. I'm sure a lot of people would buy stolen goods. I

am sure a lot of people are buying stolen goods. So it is -- he is not

on his own, is he? But they arrested him there and then and

then we got a phone call, I think it was about 11.30 off the sergeant

in the police station, he said they were detaining Liam and he would be

in Manchester City Court tomorrow. Was this the first first time you

had been to a court? Yes. Halfs that like? Quite daunting

really. We did mouth a little conversation, didn't he? Yeah.

Mostly it was sorry. Don't worry, I love you.

Shush. The magistrate asked Lee's solicitor about bail and the

solicitor said, "We are not applying for bail." My head just

started buzzing and I thought, "What do you mean, you are not

asking... "I sat there in total disbelief.

We went up to the Manchester courts thinking, you know, he would

probably be out today and but obviously no, he was remanded then

and that was it. It was five minutes and he was back down in the

cells. And then the prosecution read out the report saying they are

accusing her of three burglaries to the total of �100,000. As she was

going down, she said, "Mum, please phone me." I said, "I can't phone

you Danielle, you are going to prison.

If you want to go mad, literally, go do stupid and go to prison and

you will become mad. In prison it is stress.. You think that an hour

has gone by, but really and truly only five minutes has gone.

Two weeks in, I was sharing with a person who killed two people. I

didn't know exactly what to do because he had some mental illness.

The best way I could describe it really was like, erm... It was

almost like a bereavement really. That's what it felt like. I didn't

cope well. Would you like a tissue? No, thank you. Yes, please. Is that

all right? Yeah, sure. My first concern was how are we going to do

financially? Because the three of us all help with the bills and

everything. But Lei was the main bread winner. At that stage I

thought to myself, right, we might not be able to live here any more.

What are we going to do for food? I felt like hi to step up. I had to

fill Lei's shoes. Could you tell me a bit about the family set up here.

Can you tell me about how your family works. Do you want to take

this one? You can. I want to hear what you have to say. I'm the man

of the house. That's pretty much all I have to say. I just wanted to

state my dominance in that situation. I'll let you fill in the

gaps. You're the man of the house, how come? I'm the oldest, the

strongest, I earn the most money. Man of the house. How did you get

to this point? When we was younger my old man was a believer of

hitting you to discipline you. I don't disagree with you know, give

a kid a smack, get him in line. It got to the point where he got over

the top. Like, he'd hit you a little bit too hard for the...

Crime. Yeah, like the crime you'd committed. His reaction to our

action was way over the top. One day I said look, if you ever do it

again, we're going to have issues. And one day... He overstepped the

mark. I had to put him in his place. I was only 15. He was a fully grown

man. Did that change the relationship for good? Silence ever

since. It ended it. Yeah, none of us has spoke ton him since. Have

you taken over his role in a way? Yeah, you could say that. Yeah?

Yeah. I think it's we're more like best friends as well as like mum

and son. Yeah. It's quite a unique relationship that we have.

would you describe your parentsing style? Different. Different, yeah.

Because we was raised quite poorly, so we didn't have any of that

instiled in us. We have to make it up as we went along. Opposite of

what we was raised with and taught. Can you tell me about your

upbringing? My mum raised seven of us on our own. The eldest sibling

died, which turned my dad into a violent alcoholic. My mum did

instil morals into us. She was a good woman. But she wasn't about

enough to stop, like my brothers got into lots of trouble. Police

around quite often. My mum was always at work. There was only her

that had to go out and find food for us every day. It was pretty

tough. I was born, kauszed the divorce through my mum having an

affair, which was I was the result, which is why I have no father. My

mum met an ex-soldier guy. He was violent, drunk. He used to beat her

up all the time. It wasn't a nice place where I came from, put it

that way. My crime days started when I was about five years old.

This word "ferel", when I heard it, I thought who are they talking

about you know what I mean. They don't know ferel kids. I am ferel

kids or I was. Smashed the local shops was another thing. All the

shops where I live are boarded up because of us. Wech used to burn

the telephone box down, set the bins on fire. How would that make

things better? I weren't after better at the time. That wasn't my

aim. It was just to get at them. Because I wasn't thinking that far

ahead, you know what I mean? You're doing it for now, aren't you?

sort of effect has that upbringing had on you? Today? Just trying to

get things right as a parent this time. To stop this cycle. You know

of crime and criminality and jail and drugs and drink. I mean some

people might say Ryan is involved in crime. He's involved in protest.

If protesting has become a crime, Was it a difficult choice to adopt?

No, it wasn't a difficult choice to adopt. In some ways I always, we'd

always intended to, even before we knew we couldn't, well it was

difficult to have children. We always intended, I always felt

there's enough kids in the world without, I never had a thing about

having my own kids. We separated three years ago. My wife went to

live with my daughter in Brazil. Fabiano went there for a while, but

the situation wasn't working out, let's put it that way. So he came

back here. That's another source of anger, I think. Because he would

prefer to be in Brazil. If I was in Brazil and I had done something

like that my mum would have given me beatings to my face and

everything. Your birth mother? Do you think you should have been

given more discipline? What do you mean? He's describing being beaten.

Well, that's not discipline. That's abuse. Discipline, if you look at

the word it means following something. That's what I say if

something grabs you and you are committed to it, that's a

discipline. Some might say that something else is called for, I

mean how successful has your parenting been? Erm... Well what do

they think is called for. I think you're right something else is

called for. I would not blame my parents for how I've become. I'd

say the streets, secondary school is the main reason why I've become

what I am. Where is Daniel's dad? He's deceased. When did he die?

1995. And how old was Daniel then? One. He never knew his dad? No.

your husband now, Daniel's step dad, why didn't he want to be filmed?

It's embarrassing. Embarrassing? Yeah, this whole having somebody in

your family that was involved in the riots, I don't mind talking

about it so much because part of me is Daniel and part of Daniel is me.

I have to take it on the chin. But it makes me feel like I couldn't

have been a good parent. I thought I was teaching him the difference

between right and wrong. I thought that he understood the boundaries,

but now it makes me think either I didn't do that properly or he

didn't understand or he did understand and I did do it properly

and he's totally disregarded it. I don't know which it is. A lot of

people blame the riots on bad parenting. Yeah. How do you feel

about that? I don't think my parents are bad parents. We was

raised by bad parents. We know parenting first hand. We've bent

over backwards to make sure our kids are on the rights path. We

have instiled morals into them. What morals have you instiled in

Ryan do you think? Do the right thing and help anyone you can along

the way. Is rioting the right thing? Rioting with a cause, yeah.

What kind of society do you think we would live in if this, these

riots happened all the time? We do live in a society where they happen

all the time. Poll tax riots, miners' strikes. Riots go back as

far as capitalism. Ryan's involvement in activism had begun

eight months earlier at the student protests in London. It was all

completely peaceful until we got to Parliament Square when the police

It was the day when I started building up mental dossier of

evidence against the police. When you put your shoes on that day in

August, what did you want to do? Well, I wanted to see policemen

being attacked. I wanted to see them being treated the way they

treat us. You wanted to hurt the people who'd hurt you. You wanted

to... Did you hurt them? No. probably get stopped by police,

what, four times a week, three times a week, yeah. That many times

and it literally is frustrating because half the time they haven't

got a real reason to be stopping you. They just say oh, because he's

a black male or because he's wearing that kind of, those certain

clothes, because he's wearing a hoodie, because he's wearing Adidas,

they like to stop you. A lot of stop and search goes on around here,

naturally because there have been stabbings and shootings and murders.

For some people it may build up a quiet resentment as to why they're

being stopped and searched. Do you think that anger is justified?

and no. Yes and no. I think because a lot of the young people here have

been let down by the fact that what they thought they were maybe going

to be able to get, where they felt included, now they're being maybe,

they may be feeling singled out and excluded. That would make you be

angry. I mean, a lot of people got to the point where they wanted to

riot because they didn't feel they had anything to lose. People felt

powerless. It was a way of empowering themselves. From my

perspective, it seems like one set of rules for one people, a

different set for another. That By the time Danielle was up in

court in Wolverhampton, CCTV footage had revealed that two of

the burglaries she was charged with were cases of mistaken identity.

They realised the blonde girl in the jewellers wasn't Danielle, it

was a different girl. They checked the CCTV from Digitech and know she

didn't enter that shop. It was only Zapps she went in to have a nosey.

That day when the sentencing came what was the worst case scenario?

It was 24 months or possibly longer than that because I'd met people

who got a lot longer for a lot less. So I was thinking oh, it might be,

have to settle in sort of thing, get used to it. The judge there

said, well, you know what I'm handing out to these rioters. But

he was going to wait for probation reports first. Which Danielle went

straight into the court hearing to do the report. Even the probation

officer said, no, you'll get a suspended sentence for this

Danielle. I don't know what the judge said but everyone was like oh,

and then there was a quiet moment. We thought oh, is that good or bad

because it was the first time that day all the cases going on, that's

the first time that he'd done that. I think about eight of the 12

people that were there were for the riots. Every one of them got

custodial that day. Apart from me. What did you get? I got a 24-month

suspended sentence and 200 hours of Community Service. 40 weeks. 40

weeks suspended. No, I got a two year suspended sentence, 24 months.

If I break the law in the next two years, I get a minimum of nine

months in prison. What did he get in the end? He got a six-month

suspended. So he got what we thought... One year suspended.

suspended for one year. Six month sentence suspended for a year.

of the captains from the Army was with us. And he told Liam's

barrister, you know, they would punish him. They would pay his fine

and take it out of his wages. They would do some form of punishment

for him. If that would be sufficient. Could they go for a

suspended sentence. But, you know, the outcome he didn't get a

suspended sentence. He got eight months imprisonment. As a result of

the prison sentence, Liam was discharged from the Army and his

The judge listened to a barrister and then he listened to probation

and then he said the least sentence I can give you is ten months,

Danielle. So he gave her a month for every second she was in that

shop. Daniel is waiting to be sentenced

for violent disorder. REPORTER: How long do you think you

will get? I would imagine anything roundabout nine months. It maybe

more. It maybe less. And what do you think of a sentence like that

for what he did? I think it is right. I think it is right.

would you feel if he went to prison?

I would be heart broke, honestly heart broken, wounded because I

tried everything possible to make that not happen.

But you didn't stop him going out that night? No and if he did go, I

said, "I will never visit you if you end up in jail." I will have no

contact with you and if it did happen, I would go and visit him

and wi support him. How do you do you regard prison?

you end up going, it is your own fault for not being careful enough

when you broke law. Liam's barrister said Liam's case

had played on his mind and he was going to London and he was taking

it to the appeal courts because he thought the same as us, he was

wrongly done by. It is not right. Just that they

can't grant it. They can't go back on it so he will just have to get

his head down and we couldn't have asked for better representatives.

It was a long way to go for a 45 minute hearing, but we did it and

we had the chance and we can't say, "We didn't try."

For two days, rioters created chaos and fears and in Wolverhampton,

crowds rioted shops in Queen Street, unaware a security camera was

recording everyone. It picks out a blond haired girl. It was Danielle.

With me is Danielle's mum, Sharon. We have had a lot of texts this

morning from our listeners. One listener says, "She deserves jail."

Brian says, "You do the crime, you pay the time." "I wish this girl

would grow up." What do you say to those people? They don't know my

daughter. They are judging her by a newspaper. That is wrong. Now the

Government are going to send out signs and put an example for people,

but they are not getting the ones who set fire to premises and

actually lotted the -- looted the town that day. My kids know right

from wrong and Danielle knows right from wrong and she should not be

punished. She should be punished but not jail.

Does Danielle deserve jail phone Phil right now.

Well done, Sharon. Sterling defence. I'm going to defend her. She can't

defend herself. It was nerve-wracking for me

because I have never been through this before. I was scared. I was

shaking. I just wanted to get Danielle's side over because I was

so angry, I know the media have done this. They need to be told.

They need to know the full story on that day.

How do you feel being tarred with the brush rioter?

You know what, it is the wrong thing to do.

It doesn't seem like you regret much by what happened?

An interesting question. I don't really regret anything I do

to be honest because you know at end of the day, if you worry or

regret something, what is it going to change? You just have to accept

it. Deal with it. David, are you worried about the

path Fabiano is on? I don't want him to get into a life of crime and

end up in prison and that sort of thing. I think he has got potential

to do things and I hope he will find something.

But he is a 19-year-old, I can't tell him what to do.

I wouldn't know how to enrol myself into no college, man. I can help

you. Why haven't you done that already? Because You haven't said

what you want to do. How many times did I say I wanted

to be an actor? I have I have shown you a course... And you have shown

me something and what do you expect me to do? I expect you to say, "Yes,

I want to do it." How many times have I said yes? You haven't.

I say yeah and he don't know if I say yes, I do want to do it...

don't say, "Can we we go along and check it out?" It is like like for

me to say, "Let's go?" Why don't you ask if you want to go and check

out that place today? Why don't you ask me? Because you are the one

that has that power. I show you the website and I expect you to say,

"Let's go." Then I will be with you. I'm asking you right here, right

now, shall we go along to that theatre company? Yeah. Great. Let's

do it. Is that a promise?

Liam Bretherton served a third of his eight month sentence and is now

out on an electronic tag. We know Liam did wrong, but where did he

get the punishment from from that, eight months imprisonment and lost

everything. Lost his job. What good have they done for the taxpayers

now to pay for Liam? What good have they got out of that?

It is not really the prison sentence I was bothered about, it

was my job. You know I have worked hard for three-and-a-half years in

the Army and it has just all gone within one moment.

I'm embarrassed to go and sign on at the Jobcentre for Jobseeker's

Allowance. I just feel embarrassed about it. I am aused to working for

a living and I don't want to be sat around at home every day, taking

money that I'm not doing anything for. I just think it is wrong..

Fabiano, are you worried about the future, you are 19, convicted of

arson, got a suspended sentence which means staying out of trouble

for a year. I mean... I don't know exactly what to say.. A year to me

is ap long time, yeah to not get into trouble in London anyway

because I don't think that there has been a year in London that I

haven't got into trouble. And thinking of going to prison has

messed up. REPORTER: What do you think would

be a good way forward for you? I haven't got a clue. I do not know.

REPORTER: If you knew you weren't going to get caught, would you do

it again? Probably. If someone said, "You are

not going to get caught." Fine, off I go.

I don't like that. At all. Sorry. It's all right. I would like to

think that it taught him a bit more of a lesson.

If I didn't get caught, I knew I would have done wrong, but because

I did get caught I think I understand a wider spectrum of just

how wrong it was. It hasn't just affected me solely, it has affected

obviously you, grandparents, family, brothers, everybody really.

So if something like that, like The Riots and that... If the same set

of circumstances kicked off again, I wouldn't get involved.

There we go. If I wouldn't get caught, I would.

It raises a bigger question of if you don't get caught doing

something, does that make it right? There is such a thing as committing

a crime for the right reasons. REPORTER: Do you feel you have

committed crimes for the right reasons? Regardless of what I've

done, I've done it for the right reasons. Whatever I have done, I've

done them for the right reasons. I'm sure of that. Everyone

predicted a riot and I think a lot of people are predicting another

one because a lot of the people who went out rioting want to riot again

because of how they felt when they did riot for the first time.

REPORTER: Do you want to riot again? Yeah.

REPORTER: Why? Because nothing has changed.

I stel need to explore -- still need to explore much more deeply

how all that came about and why and to make sure that he doesn't go

down this type of road again and that he can go and do the right

thing which is what I want for him. I want him to go outside and do the

right thing and be a descent member of society. That's what I want for

Daniel. REPORTER: If the riots happened

again tomorrow, would you go down? Yeah. I would go and have a look

because it is interesting to watch. It really was. I tried to get

myself a camera and document it a bit because what I found with the

news was that that it wasn't... whole story.

Yeah, it wasn't the whole story. It was what people looking from the

outside looking in saw. They need to see what it was like being on

the inside of that. REPORTER: And what was it like on

the inside? It is quite fun. It was quite a big sense of comradery.

Everyone kind of working towards one goal. Which was? Get some free

stuff. REPORTER: Isn't the problem here

that no one sees Ryan as a political protestor. They just see

him as a minuteless thu? -- mindless thug. Yes.

What do you think about that? suits them to see everyone the same

because they don't want to look at deeper issues and social injustices

and all that. Rioting is not an outcome of happiness, the