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I think that if you're adopted, you can't help but feel, | 0:00:04 | 0:00:10 | |
somehow or other, deep, deep, deep down inside, that, um... | 0:00:10 | 0:00:15 | |
..that you don't belong. | 0:00:17 | 0:00:19 | |
It makes you feel like you've got a question mark inside you, somehow. | 0:00:19 | 0:00:26 | |
I mean, I was just told that my mother had had a baby | 0:00:26 | 0:00:30 | |
and she wasn't able to look after me. That was it. | 0:00:30 | 0:00:33 | |
And I thought maybe if I did know where I was from, | 0:00:34 | 0:00:40 | |
that, somehow or other, perhaps there was some sort of answer there. | 0:00:40 | 0:00:43 | |
I know about my birth mother, but I know nothing, nothing, | 0:00:45 | 0:00:51 | |
nothing, nothing about my father. And... | 0:00:51 | 0:00:55 | |
..at my grand old age, I think actually I would like to know. | 0:00:58 | 0:01:04 | |
I really would like to know where I'm from. | 0:01:04 | 0:01:07 | |
How many shots are we actually going to be doing? | 0:01:37 | 0:01:40 | |
-Er... -Has it has been broken down, you know... -Yeah. | 0:01:40 | 0:01:42 | |
..all of the wedding stuff? Has it has been...? | 0:01:42 | 0:01:44 | |
Best known for starring in detective show Scott And Bailey, | 0:01:44 | 0:01:47 | |
and with roles in dramas like Doctor Who and Cranford, | 0:01:47 | 0:01:50 | |
Lesley Sharp's varied stage, screen and TV work | 0:01:50 | 0:01:54 | |
has earned her a reputation as an accomplished and versatile actress. | 0:01:54 | 0:01:58 | |
Lesley was born in Manchester in 1960 | 0:01:59 | 0:02:03 | |
and adopted when she was just six weeks old. | 0:02:03 | 0:02:06 | |
My adoptive mum suffered throughout my childhood with depression. | 0:02:06 | 0:02:11 | |
So, my relationship with her was tricky | 0:02:11 | 0:02:16 | |
because there was a degree of unreliability | 0:02:16 | 0:02:21 | |
about whether or not she was... | 0:02:21 | 0:02:23 | |
she was going to be well, and, if she was well, | 0:02:23 | 0:02:26 | |
how long that was going to last. | 0:02:26 | 0:02:28 | |
She died when I was 15, so it was me and my adoptive father, Jack, | 0:02:29 | 0:02:35 | |
and I absolutely adored him, I worshipped him. | 0:02:35 | 0:02:39 | |
Very, very calm and very, sort of, clear. | 0:02:39 | 0:02:46 | |
So, he was kind of like this brilliant port in a storm. | 0:02:46 | 0:02:50 | |
In 1990, Lesley traced her biological mother, | 0:02:52 | 0:02:55 | |
using the limited information that her adoptive parents had been given. | 0:02:55 | 0:02:59 | |
This is my Birth Certificate. | 0:02:59 | 0:03:02 | |
My name at birth was Karen, my mother's name is Elsie Makinson. | 0:03:02 | 0:03:07 | |
When I made contact with my mum, | 0:03:07 | 0:03:11 | |
I was really nervous. | 0:03:11 | 0:03:13 | |
You don't know who you're going to meet, | 0:03:16 | 0:03:18 | |
you don't know who you're going to find, you don't... | 0:03:18 | 0:03:21 | |
You've got no idea at all. | 0:03:21 | 0:03:23 | |
Um...it's scary, it's really scary. | 0:03:23 | 0:03:28 | |
Picture of my mum - there she is, looking quite neat. | 0:03:29 | 0:03:33 | |
What she did tell me was that | 0:03:34 | 0:03:36 | |
she had an affair with a man that she was working with, | 0:03:36 | 0:03:40 | |
but the problem was that he was married and he had children. | 0:03:40 | 0:03:44 | |
And then she got pregnant, by accident, and they decided that | 0:03:44 | 0:03:48 | |
it would be for the best if the baby was given up for adoption. | 0:03:48 | 0:03:52 | |
And she breast-fed me right up until the moment | 0:03:52 | 0:03:57 | |
that she handed me over, and... it was pretty harsh. | 0:03:57 | 0:04:02 | |
She took these. | 0:04:02 | 0:04:03 | |
These are the little baby booties | 0:04:09 | 0:04:11 | |
that I was wearing the last time she ever held me in her arms, | 0:04:11 | 0:04:16 | |
as a baby, she took these off my feet and kept them. | 0:04:16 | 0:04:21 | |
My Auntie Margaret gave me these when my mum died. | 0:04:21 | 0:04:25 | |
My mother told me my father's name, | 0:04:26 | 0:04:30 | |
and it's a very unusual name - surname. | 0:04:30 | 0:04:33 | |
His first name was Norman, but his surname is Patient. | 0:04:33 | 0:04:38 | |
A few months after my mother and I had met, | 0:04:38 | 0:04:41 | |
I'd bought a Sunday newspaper | 0:04:41 | 0:04:43 | |
and they had these two old guys in Didsbury, in Manchester, | 0:04:43 | 0:04:49 | |
playing bowls. | 0:04:49 | 0:04:50 | |
One of the names underneath was Norman Patient. | 0:04:50 | 0:04:54 | |
And I looked at this picture of this man and I saw this... | 0:04:54 | 0:04:58 | |
And I thought, "Oh, my god! Oh, my god! That's my father! | 0:05:01 | 0:05:07 | |
"Is that...? Is that my father?" | 0:05:07 | 0:05:09 | |
I picked up the phone, I rang my mum, I said, | 0:05:12 | 0:05:16 | |
"I think I've just seen a picture of my father in the newspaper, is it?" | 0:05:16 | 0:05:19 | |
And she had the same newspaper and she said, "Yes, it is." | 0:05:19 | 0:05:22 | |
And...I looked at this picture and I felt very angry. | 0:05:22 | 0:05:29 | |
There he was in the sunshine, enjoying a game of bowls, | 0:05:29 | 0:05:33 | |
and my mum had had to go through all of that on her own. | 0:05:33 | 0:05:37 | |
So I didn't want to trace him. | 0:05:37 | 0:05:39 | |
Now, my birth father is dead. | 0:05:41 | 0:05:44 | |
I wonder - did he manage to keep me a secret? | 0:05:44 | 0:05:48 | |
And, if he did, did anybody guess, did he have that thing about him? | 0:05:48 | 0:05:52 | |
Did he behave or look like a man who would cheat on his wife? | 0:05:52 | 0:05:58 | |
Lesley is on her way to Manchester, where she was born. | 0:06:05 | 0:06:09 | |
She wants to try to uncover the truth about her birth and adoption. | 0:06:09 | 0:06:13 | |
"I'd like to welcome those of you who've joined us at Milton Keynes Central | 0:06:16 | 0:06:19 | |
"for this Virgin train through to Manchester Piccadilly." | 0:06:19 | 0:06:22 | |
22 years after tracing her birth mother, Elsie, | 0:06:22 | 0:06:25 | |
Lesley has decided to make contact with her birth father's family, | 0:06:25 | 0:06:29 | |
for the first time. | 0:06:29 | 0:06:31 | |
She's used an adoption charity | 0:06:31 | 0:06:33 | |
to get hold of her original adoption file. | 0:06:33 | 0:06:36 | |
So, this is my adoption file, with... | 0:06:36 | 0:06:40 | |
..various forms in it. | 0:06:42 | 0:06:44 | |
The first one is an application form to the Adoption Society. | 0:06:44 | 0:06:50 | |
"Full name and registration number of child's parents." | 0:06:50 | 0:06:53 | |
So, "Baby's mother - Elsie Makinson. Baby's father - Norman Patient." | 0:06:53 | 0:06:59 | |
And then, in brackets, next to his name - "Married." | 0:06:59 | 0:07:05 | |
"Has either parent any other children?" | 0:07:05 | 0:07:07 | |
"Father - one boy, one girl." | 0:07:07 | 0:07:10 | |
"Does the father consent to the adoption? Yes. | 0:07:13 | 0:07:17 | |
"If not married to the mother, | 0:07:17 | 0:07:18 | |
"is he liable to contribute to child's maintenance?" | 0:07:18 | 0:07:22 | |
There's a "Y" that's been crossed out and then, "No". | 0:07:22 | 0:07:26 | |
"Why is the child offered for adoption?" | 0:07:27 | 0:07:30 | |
And written here is, "For financial reasons and best for the baby." | 0:07:30 | 0:07:34 | |
There you are. | 0:07:37 | 0:07:38 | |
It's kind of weird thinking that all these years that I've been alive | 0:07:45 | 0:07:49 | |
that there's been a half-brother and a half-sister out there somewhere | 0:07:49 | 0:07:52 | |
and that it's only, kind of, now that, um, hopefully... | 0:07:52 | 0:07:57 | |
that we're going to meet. | 0:07:57 | 0:07:58 | |
And I... And I really hope | 0:07:58 | 0:08:01 | |
that having found out that I exist hasn't been too traumatic for them. | 0:08:01 | 0:08:06 | |
I really hope that they're not angry with me. | 0:08:06 | 0:08:10 | |
But before Lesley finally meets her half-brother and sister, | 0:08:10 | 0:08:14 | |
she wants to find out more about her father. | 0:08:14 | 0:08:17 | |
She's going to visit her mother's sisters, Margaret and Nancy, | 0:08:17 | 0:08:21 | |
to see what they can tell her about the circumstances | 0:08:21 | 0:08:23 | |
that led to her adoption. | 0:08:23 | 0:08:25 | |
She first met her aunts when she made contact with her mother, | 0:08:25 | 0:08:28 | |
over two decades ago. | 0:08:28 | 0:08:30 | |
I'm now on my way to see, erm, my two aunts - | 0:08:30 | 0:08:35 | |
Nancy, who was a couple of years older than my mum, | 0:08:35 | 0:08:40 | |
and Margaret, who was 15 years younger than my mum. | 0:08:40 | 0:08:44 | |
I'm really interested to know whether or not | 0:08:44 | 0:08:47 | |
they've got any information about my father, Norman. | 0:08:47 | 0:08:50 | |
I mean, I know that my mum felt very passionate about him. | 0:08:50 | 0:08:54 | |
Be nice to see if Nancy's got anything to say about that. | 0:08:54 | 0:08:58 | |
Yeah, it'll be nice to see her. | 0:08:58 | 0:09:01 | |
-Hello, Lesley. -Hello. | 0:09:13 | 0:09:16 | |
-Aw! -How nice to see you. | 0:09:16 | 0:09:18 | |
-Hello, darling. -Aw, lovely. | 0:09:18 | 0:09:21 | |
-Hello, Margaret. -Hello, darling. | 0:09:21 | 0:09:24 | |
How lovely to see you. | 0:09:24 | 0:09:25 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:09:25 | 0:09:27 | |
Cos this is my favourite photograph of her. | 0:09:27 | 0:09:30 | |
-Nancy tells me she was about 17. -Yeah. | 0:09:30 | 0:09:33 | |
-And I love that. -Lovely. | 0:09:33 | 0:09:37 | |
So, ladies, | 0:09:37 | 0:09:40 | |
do you remember Mum coming home and talking to you | 0:09:40 | 0:09:46 | |
about the fact that she was pregnant and telling you what had happened? | 0:09:46 | 0:09:50 | |
-Yes. -So, can you tell me about that? | 0:09:50 | 0:09:53 | |
Well, I was living at my nana's at the time, | 0:09:53 | 0:09:57 | |
and she came round to tell me that she was pregnant. She said, | 0:09:57 | 0:10:01 | |
"And I can't tell my mum." She said, "Will you break it to her for me?" | 0:10:01 | 0:10:06 | |
-And I did, and... -What did my grandmother do? | 0:10:06 | 0:10:10 | |
Well, she was shocked at first. She was really shocked. | 0:10:10 | 0:10:14 | |
But my mum stood by her all the way through, but nobody knew, | 0:10:14 | 0:10:17 | |
-only the immediate family. -Right. | 0:10:17 | 0:10:20 | |
I mean, when it all actually started... | 0:10:20 | 0:10:24 | |
Do you remember what happened? | 0:10:24 | 0:10:26 | |
I remember being left out, I remember not being talked to, | 0:10:26 | 0:10:30 | |
I remember walking in rooms and people stopping speaking. | 0:10:30 | 0:10:35 | |
Because it was like, to a certain extent, like I didn't exist, | 0:10:35 | 0:10:39 | |
and I realise now that they weren't going to discuss it | 0:10:39 | 0:10:42 | |
-with a 12-year-old. -Right. | 0:10:42 | 0:10:44 | |
So, I knew things were going on and I knew everybody was upset, | 0:10:44 | 0:10:48 | |
especially Elsie. | 0:10:48 | 0:10:50 | |
When she did go out, Nancy was telling me, | 0:10:50 | 0:10:54 | |
she had to wear a big coat and sneak round the back avenue | 0:10:54 | 0:10:59 | |
-so the neighbours... -Wouldn't see. -..wouldn't see her. -No. | 0:10:59 | 0:11:02 | |
At that time, it was unheard of, really, you know, | 0:11:02 | 0:11:08 | |
to have a child out of marriage. | 0:11:08 | 0:11:10 | |
Do you think that she had any expectation or hope, | 0:11:10 | 0:11:15 | |
while she was pregnant, that Norman might come good, in terms of... | 0:11:15 | 0:11:21 | |
-..I mean, do you...? -I didn't get that impression myself. | 0:11:22 | 0:11:25 | |
Elsie had no job, and she had no support off him. | 0:11:25 | 0:11:29 | |
-Did she ask him for money, do you know? -No. -No. -No, she... | 0:11:30 | 0:11:33 | |
-And he didn't offer any? -No, no. | 0:11:33 | 0:11:36 | |
No. I mean, he'd never been in touch or supported her, | 0:11:38 | 0:11:41 | |
else she wouldn't have given you away. | 0:11:41 | 0:11:43 | |
She wouldn't. She wouldn't have had you adopted, I know. | 0:11:44 | 0:11:48 | |
I can vouch for that. | 0:11:48 | 0:11:50 | |
And then, you know, when you weren't going to be kept, | 0:11:50 | 0:11:54 | |
she went to the mother and baby home. | 0:11:54 | 0:11:56 | |
For me, it was more about when she'd actually given you up | 0:11:56 | 0:12:00 | |
-and she came back home. -Right. | 0:12:00 | 0:12:02 | |
-And...that's when we would talk. -Right. | 0:12:02 | 0:12:04 | |
And that's when, um... | 0:12:04 | 0:12:07 | |
-That was a really sad time... -Yeah. -..and distressing time. | 0:12:07 | 0:12:11 | |
And she was upstairs and I could hear her crying. | 0:12:11 | 0:12:15 | |
So I went up the stairs | 0:12:15 | 0:12:18 | |
-and asked her where the baby was. -Oh, dear. | 0:12:18 | 0:12:22 | |
-And, um... -Did she tell you? -She told me, yeah, | 0:12:22 | 0:12:26 | |
that she'd had the baby and she'd had to give it up. | 0:12:26 | 0:12:29 | |
That was a really sad time. She was very, very distressed. | 0:12:29 | 0:12:33 | |
-Crying... Oh, it was really, really heartbreaking, but... -It was. | 0:12:33 | 0:12:38 | |
..you were never off our minds. | 0:12:38 | 0:12:40 | |
Yes, every year on your birthday, out came the booties. | 0:12:40 | 0:12:44 | |
And each year, we'd wonder where you are and what you were doing | 0:12:44 | 0:12:47 | |
and how you were growing up. | 0:12:47 | 0:12:50 | |
And I think then, when you did finally, um, get in touch... | 0:12:50 | 0:12:56 | |
-She always had that guilt feeling... -I think that was... | 0:12:56 | 0:12:58 | |
..of what she'd done. | 0:12:58 | 0:12:59 | |
I know, I did feel that sometimes, her guilt about it, | 0:12:59 | 0:13:02 | |
which I always thought was so not what she should have felt, at all. | 0:13:02 | 0:13:08 | |
-No. -Um, it grieved me that she felt so guilty. | 0:13:08 | 0:13:14 | |
-That's...that's what, yeah... -And I think it's a shame that | 0:13:14 | 0:13:16 | |
-she found it so difficult. -Yeah. -Because she'd got an opportunity | 0:13:16 | 0:13:19 | |
to have such a great experience with you in her life. | 0:13:19 | 0:13:24 | |
But I think that was a bit too hard for her to deal with. | 0:13:24 | 0:13:27 | |
-Very hard. And did she...? -And it was always there. | 0:13:27 | 0:13:31 | |
Did she ever see Norman again, after that? | 0:13:31 | 0:13:35 | |
-No, not to my knowledge she didn't, no. -No. -But I did. | 0:13:35 | 0:13:38 | |
-You did? Did you? -Mm. | 0:13:38 | 0:13:41 | |
-You saw him? -I worked for him. | 0:13:41 | 0:13:43 | |
I worked as his secretary for about 18 months, | 0:13:45 | 0:13:49 | |
but I didn't know he was your father. | 0:13:49 | 0:13:51 | |
-When did you find out that it was him? -Years and years later. | 0:13:51 | 0:13:55 | |
-So she didn't tell you that..? -I didn't know. | 0:13:55 | 0:13:58 | |
But she knew that you were working for him, and he must have known. | 0:13:58 | 0:14:01 | |
This is the bit that I can't figure out. | 0:14:01 | 0:14:03 | |
And he must have known, but I didn't know. | 0:14:03 | 0:14:07 | |
My god, Margaret, what was he like? | 0:14:09 | 0:14:11 | |
He was a very nice man. | 0:14:11 | 0:14:13 | |
-Did... So you liked him? -Yeah. | 0:14:13 | 0:14:16 | |
Goodness me! What are the chances of that? | 0:14:16 | 0:14:19 | |
I have no more understanding about my father | 0:14:22 | 0:14:28 | |
and what his feelings were about my mother | 0:14:28 | 0:14:34 | |
and what he was doing. | 0:14:34 | 0:14:36 | |
I'm absolutely no clearer with that, | 0:14:36 | 0:14:40 | |
and I'm actually slightly nervous about meeting Doris and Tommy now, | 0:14:40 | 0:14:45 | |
because, by the sounds of things, | 0:14:45 | 0:14:48 | |
what happened with my mother was something that he kept secret, | 0:14:48 | 0:14:51 | |
and he went back to his life and he went back to his marriage | 0:14:51 | 0:14:55 | |
and he went back to his children, and maybe grandchildren - who knows? | 0:14:55 | 0:14:59 | |
And he carried that secret that he, you know, that he... | 0:14:59 | 0:15:03 | |
..that he didn't tell them about. | 0:15:04 | 0:15:06 | |
Lesley is on her way to meet her half-brother, Tommy, | 0:15:09 | 0:15:13 | |
and half-sister, Doris, for the first time. | 0:15:13 | 0:15:16 | |
We're in an area of Manchester that I've never been in before, | 0:15:16 | 0:15:20 | |
and we've just driven past where Tommy and Doris, | 0:15:20 | 0:15:22 | |
my half-brother and sister, are. | 0:15:22 | 0:15:25 | |
And I'm going to go now and meet them, | 0:15:25 | 0:15:28 | |
and, actually, I feel a bit weird about it. | 0:15:28 | 0:15:32 | |
And I feel vulnerable about it, | 0:15:32 | 0:15:35 | |
and I feel vulnerable about meeting them. | 0:15:35 | 0:15:38 | |
I think it's really important my initial meeting with them | 0:15:38 | 0:15:42 | |
should be off camera, so, um... | 0:15:42 | 0:15:47 | |
I shall see you after I've said, "Hello." | 0:15:47 | 0:15:51 | |
After making their introductions, | 0:15:59 | 0:16:01 | |
Lesley and her new family are happy to continue talking on camera. | 0:16:01 | 0:16:06 | |
So, um, are you OK? | 0:16:06 | 0:16:09 | |
-Yes, we're fine, yeah. -Yeah, yeah, sound, yeah. | 0:16:09 | 0:16:12 | |
Yeah, we are fine now. It was a shock. | 0:16:12 | 0:16:14 | |
-Yeah. -Yeah. | 0:16:14 | 0:16:16 | |
It was, yeah, because... I can never understand | 0:16:16 | 0:16:19 | |
why my dad never wanted us to know. | 0:16:19 | 0:16:23 | |
Well, I suppose I can understand, | 0:16:23 | 0:16:25 | |
because he didn't want my mother to know. | 0:16:25 | 0:16:27 | |
But, in later years, why didn't he tell us? | 0:16:27 | 0:16:30 | |
You know, I just can't understand that. | 0:16:31 | 0:16:35 | |
I think for him not to have anything to do with you, | 0:16:35 | 0:16:39 | |
I thought was out of character, it wasn't like him, yeah. | 0:16:39 | 0:16:44 | |
If he'd have told me, you know, | 0:16:44 | 0:16:46 | |
on the quiet, when we used to go out for a pint, | 0:16:46 | 0:16:49 | |
-it wouldn't have bothered me, you know. -Mm. | 0:16:49 | 0:16:52 | |
-I'd have loved to have met you earlier, if he'd have told me. -Yeah. | 0:16:52 | 0:16:56 | |
-Yeah. -But unfortunately... | 0:16:56 | 0:16:58 | |
-He never. -..he didn't, you know. -..never spoke to any of us about it. | 0:16:58 | 0:17:02 | |
-How old were you when I was born, do you know? -I was 20. | 0:17:02 | 0:17:04 | |
And what about you, Doris? | 0:17:04 | 0:17:05 | |
-Were you at home? -I was... Well, I was married then. | 0:17:05 | 0:17:08 | |
Oh, when did you get married? How old were you? | 0:17:08 | 0:17:10 | |
-I was 21. -When you got married? -In 1960. -Right. | 0:17:10 | 0:17:13 | |
That's me, in February, 1960, and my dad giving me away. | 0:17:13 | 0:17:19 | |
-That's you getting married. -Yeah. | 0:17:19 | 0:17:20 | |
Yeah. | 0:17:23 | 0:17:24 | |
Sweet photograph. | 0:17:27 | 0:17:30 | |
When I got married, I was expecting Stephen. | 0:17:30 | 0:17:33 | |
-Was that the reason that you got married? -Yes, yes. | 0:17:33 | 0:17:36 | |
-So you told your parents that? -Yes. | 0:17:36 | 0:17:38 | |
-And what happened when you told..? -Oh, my dad went absolutely crazy. | 0:17:38 | 0:17:43 | |
-He went really spare, he played up hell. -Yeah. | 0:17:43 | 0:17:47 | |
But everything turned out all right, as they do in the end. | 0:17:47 | 0:17:50 | |
-What date in February? -The 27th. | 0:17:50 | 0:17:54 | |
-Elsie would have been... -Five weeks. -..at the mother and baby home. | 0:17:54 | 0:17:58 | |
Whether he had a conscience that day, I don't know. | 0:17:58 | 0:18:01 | |
-Hm. -Yeah. | 0:18:01 | 0:18:04 | |
February. | 0:18:04 | 0:18:05 | |
Yeah, and Stephen was born in the August. | 0:18:05 | 0:18:09 | |
And is that Norman? | 0:18:11 | 0:18:13 | |
-That's Norman. -That's Norman, yes. | 0:18:14 | 0:18:17 | |
-That's...that's... -Grandad. -Yeah. | 0:18:17 | 0:18:19 | |
-Yeah. -That's Dad, or Norman. | 0:18:19 | 0:18:21 | |
That's weird, that's... And, you know, I kind of... | 0:18:26 | 0:18:30 | |
..you know, that there he is being a grandad and not a dad. | 0:18:31 | 0:18:34 | |
-Yeah, yeah. -Yeah, yeah. | 0:18:34 | 0:18:36 | |
-Um, but do you know what, it's... I mean, it's fine. -Yeah. -Yeah. | 0:18:36 | 0:18:39 | |
Yeah. It must, I'll not say hurt you. Well, it must do a little. | 0:18:39 | 0:18:45 | |
-Yeah. -Deep down. -Well, I don't, I... | 0:18:45 | 0:18:47 | |
-That was when he stopped his tram or trolley bus. -OK. | 0:18:52 | 0:18:57 | |
So this is from the deputy general manager | 0:18:57 | 0:18:59 | |
-and traffic superintendent... -Mm. | 0:18:59 | 0:19:02 | |
-..to "Driver Patient." -Yeah. -Yeah. | 0:19:02 | 0:19:04 | |
"I have received a report that about 8.45am on the 18th instant, | 0:19:04 | 0:19:08 | |
"you were observed to leave your bus and go to the assistance | 0:19:08 | 0:19:13 | |
"of an elderly blind man who had difficulty in crossing the road. | 0:19:13 | 0:19:17 | |
"This action on your part was seen and appreciated. | 0:19:17 | 0:19:21 | |
"19th of September, 1947." | 0:19:21 | 0:19:24 | |
-Yeah, yeah. -Good for him. That's brilliant. -Yeah. | 0:19:24 | 0:19:27 | |
One of the big things about meeting you, | 0:19:27 | 0:19:31 | |
and maybe seeing photographs and stuff, | 0:19:31 | 0:19:33 | |
-was obviously to do with physical resemblance. -Yeah. -Yeah, yeah. | 0:19:33 | 0:19:37 | |
Because, you know, obviously this nose is, um, big. | 0:19:37 | 0:19:40 | |
-Yeah. -Yeah. -And, um, you know, you kind of go, "Well, I wonder." | 0:19:40 | 0:19:43 | |
Yeah, well, I'm not behind... I'm not behind the bush! | 0:19:43 | 0:19:45 | |
-Yeah. -No, yours is a good size as well. | 0:19:45 | 0:19:48 | |
-But it's the shape, too. -Yeah... | 0:19:48 | 0:19:50 | |
-And, I think, cos you're... -Yours is like mine. It bends a bit. | 0:19:50 | 0:19:54 | |
But, er, now you're here, sis. | 0:19:54 | 0:19:56 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:19:56 | 0:19:59 | |
-Eh? -He's soppy you've come in contact. | 0:19:59 | 0:20:03 | |
You'll leave here saying, "What the bloody hell, that pair?!" | 0:20:03 | 0:20:07 | |
-"Who are they?!" -You know? | 0:20:07 | 0:20:09 | |
My father was this blank figure who basically left my mum, | 0:20:11 | 0:20:17 | |
did a runner. | 0:20:17 | 0:20:19 | |
He had this thing about illegitimacy. | 0:20:19 | 0:20:21 | |
It obviously kind of triggered something, | 0:20:21 | 0:20:23 | |
so my mother getting pregnant with me, that was it. | 0:20:23 | 0:20:27 | |
But actually, you know, there's this whole picture of him | 0:20:27 | 0:20:30 | |
as this guy who stopped trams for blind people, | 0:20:30 | 0:20:33 | |
was very involved with his grandchildren. | 0:20:33 | 0:20:36 | |
You know, there's a proper picture that I've been given | 0:20:36 | 0:20:40 | |
of a human being rather than this kind of two dimensional, | 0:20:40 | 0:20:44 | |
and slightly bad guy, that he, you know, maybe has been in my head. | 0:20:44 | 0:20:50 | |
The other thing is Nor... is the surname, this surname, | 0:20:50 | 0:20:55 | |
Patient, which is a really unusual name, | 0:20:55 | 0:20:59 | |
and I'm...I've always wondered where it has come from. | 0:20:59 | 0:21:04 | |
Tommy told me that he'd received a letter in the '90s from a guy | 0:21:10 | 0:21:15 | |
called John Patient, who told him | 0:21:15 | 0:21:19 | |
about the Patient family in Great Easton, in Essex. | 0:21:19 | 0:21:24 | |
So I'd really be keen on finding out more about that. | 0:21:24 | 0:21:27 | |
Having reconnected with her birth father's family, | 0:21:34 | 0:21:36 | |
Lesley wants to dig deeper into the Patient roots. | 0:21:36 | 0:21:40 | |
She's travelled 170 miles south, to the county of Essex. | 0:21:40 | 0:21:45 | |
Ah, pretty! It's pretty round here. | 0:21:45 | 0:21:50 | |
Isn't it beautiful? | 0:21:50 | 0:21:51 | |
Everything so far has been so northern and so Manchester-centric, | 0:21:53 | 0:21:59 | |
so it's lovely to be in a completely different landscape. | 0:21:59 | 0:22:03 | |
John Patient is a distant cousin of Lesley's. | 0:22:16 | 0:22:20 | |
He's spent more than a decade exploring the family genealogy. | 0:22:20 | 0:22:24 | |
-Hello. -Hello, Lesley. | 0:22:24 | 0:22:26 | |
-Are you John? -I'm John. -How do you do? -Very nice to meet you. | 0:22:26 | 0:22:29 | |
-Very nice to meet you, too. -Very nice. | 0:22:29 | 0:22:31 | |
Lesley and John's first common ancestor | 0:22:31 | 0:22:34 | |
is their great-great-grandfather, Charles Patient. | 0:22:34 | 0:22:38 | |
So we've drawn up a little chart here and this shows... | 0:22:38 | 0:22:43 | |
-Norman. -..your father, Norman. | 0:22:43 | 0:22:45 | |
-Yeah. Thomas, my grandfather. -Your grandfather. | 0:22:45 | 0:22:48 | |
-Thomas, again, my great-grandfather. -Grandfather. That's right. | 0:22:48 | 0:22:52 | |
-And then, Charles Patient. -That's right. | 0:22:52 | 0:22:54 | |
My great-great-grandfather. | 0:22:54 | 0:22:56 | |
This is the first document. | 0:22:56 | 0:22:58 | |
-Marriages? 1847. -Mm-hm. | 0:22:58 | 0:23:03 | |
So, "Charles Patient and Hannah Bush. | 0:23:03 | 0:23:08 | |
"Residence," both of them, "Tilty." | 0:23:08 | 0:23:11 | |
-That's correct. -So they were married in the Parish Church, | 0:23:11 | 0:23:14 | |
-that's this. -That's here. So they would have walked down | 0:23:14 | 0:23:16 | |
-this very aisle... -Wow! | 0:23:16 | 0:23:18 | |
-..in front of this lovely surroundings. -Aw. | 0:23:18 | 0:23:22 | |
So, I'm going to show you another document, here. | 0:23:22 | 0:23:25 | |
Oh, right. So this is baptisms | 0:23:25 | 0:23:29 | |
in the Parish of Tilty. | 0:23:29 | 0:23:32 | |
Right, I can't see Patient, but what I can see is Hannah Bush. | 0:23:32 | 0:23:37 | |
And that's William, son of Hannah Bush. | 0:23:39 | 0:23:42 | |
Hang on a sec... | 0:23:42 | 0:23:43 | |
..she's down here - | 0:23:45 | 0:23:46 | |
"Quality, trade or profession" is "Single woman." | 0:23:46 | 0:23:49 | |
-Yes, I think you've... -Hang on. | 0:23:51 | 0:23:53 | |
October the 14th. They got married on October the 16th. | 0:23:53 | 0:23:59 | |
That's right. | 0:23:59 | 0:24:00 | |
-So this child was baptised... -Mm-hm. -..two days before | 0:24:00 | 0:24:04 | |
Hannah walked up this aisle. | 0:24:04 | 0:24:08 | |
So was William Charles' son? | 0:24:08 | 0:24:12 | |
Or is this yet another illegitimate child | 0:24:12 | 0:24:19 | |
that is going to have to, you know, um..? | 0:24:19 | 0:24:23 | |
Oh, it's so... | 0:24:26 | 0:24:28 | |
-It's almost history repeating. -Almost?! | 0:24:28 | 0:24:32 | |
John! HE LAUGHS | 0:24:32 | 0:24:34 | |
-There is this recurring theme. -Mm-hm. | 0:24:34 | 0:24:38 | |
No, we can't do that. | 0:24:38 | 0:24:40 | |
Lesley has discovered that her great-great-grandmother, | 0:24:43 | 0:24:46 | |
Hannah Bush, gave birth to a son called William | 0:24:46 | 0:24:49 | |
shortly before her marriage to Charles Patient. | 0:24:49 | 0:24:53 | |
But what isn't clear is whether Lesley's | 0:24:53 | 0:24:55 | |
great-great-grandfather, Charles, was William's father. | 0:24:55 | 0:24:59 | |
-Throws up more questions than answers, doesn't it? -Yep. | 0:25:00 | 0:25:04 | |
This is a Census in 1871. | 0:25:04 | 0:25:07 | |
So this, again, is Great Easton. | 0:25:07 | 0:25:11 | |
-Charles Patient. -That's right. | 0:25:11 | 0:25:13 | |
He's the head of the household. | 0:25:13 | 0:25:15 | |
Hannah, his wife, 41, and then there he is - William Patient, | 0:25:15 | 0:25:20 | |
aged 25, still at home. | 0:25:20 | 0:25:24 | |
George, 21, Thomas, his son, 17, Charles, is that..? | 0:25:24 | 0:25:31 | |
-15, I think. -15, Eliza, 13, Frederick, 11, | 0:25:31 | 0:25:37 | |
Mary, 9, Harry, 7, | 0:25:37 | 0:25:42 | |
Sarah, 5, and is that Walter? | 0:25:42 | 0:25:45 | |
-Walter, that's right. -One. Cor, so they kept going, didn't they? | 0:25:45 | 0:25:49 | |
40, so Hannah was 40. | 0:25:49 | 0:25:52 | |
-Yes. -And she was still giving birth. | 0:25:52 | 0:25:55 | |
Ten kids. Great. | 0:25:55 | 0:25:58 | |
Good, I'm glad. | 0:25:58 | 0:25:59 | |
I'm glad...I'm glad he had all his children with him. | 0:25:59 | 0:26:01 | |
And very nice to see that that infant, William, | 0:26:01 | 0:26:05 | |
who was there when they got married, is there as their boy. | 0:26:05 | 0:26:09 | |
What would be terrific would be to find out | 0:26:09 | 0:26:12 | |
-whether or not William was Charles' son. -Mm-hm. | 0:26:12 | 0:26:15 | |
Or whether he was Hannah's son by another man | 0:26:15 | 0:26:18 | |
-that Charles totally took to his heart and family. -Mm-hm. | 0:26:18 | 0:26:21 | |
Great. Thanks ever so much, John. | 0:26:23 | 0:26:25 | |
-That's OK. -Thanks ever so much, John Patient. | 0:26:25 | 0:26:28 | |
-Cousin. -Cousin Patient. THEY LAUGH | 0:26:28 | 0:26:31 | |
Well, it's fascinating to me that we're here | 0:26:37 | 0:26:40 | |
in this beautiful English landscape, | 0:26:40 | 0:26:45 | |
and, you know, it's a world away from | 0:26:45 | 0:26:49 | |
the red-brick, industrial north. | 0:26:49 | 0:26:53 | |
But, in spite of that, there are these common themes | 0:26:53 | 0:26:58 | |
that keep coming up - | 0:26:58 | 0:27:00 | |
women who had illegitimate children and got on with it. | 0:27:00 | 0:27:06 | |
And then, suddenly, you know, in the middle of this tale | 0:27:06 | 0:27:09 | |
that we've heard today, there's this boy, William. | 0:27:09 | 0:27:13 | |
Charles kept that boy there. | 0:27:13 | 0:27:16 | |
That boy has his surname. | 0:27:16 | 0:27:18 | |
Don't know whether it is his child or not, | 0:27:18 | 0:27:21 | |
but he's there. | 0:27:21 | 0:27:23 | |
Lesley wants to find out whether William was Charles Patient's son. | 0:27:25 | 0:27:29 | |
She has come to the nearby town of Great Dunmow | 0:27:30 | 0:27:33 | |
to meet historian Professor Eddie Higgs. | 0:27:33 | 0:27:36 | |
So, what have we got here? | 0:27:36 | 0:27:39 | |
"1871 - marriage solemnized at the Parish Church | 0:27:39 | 0:27:46 | |
"in the Parish of Great Easton, in the County of Essex. | 0:27:46 | 0:27:50 | |
"October the 21st..." Oh, "William Bush"! | 0:27:50 | 0:27:55 | |
Oh, "Father's Name and Surname" is down as Charles Patient. | 0:27:55 | 0:27:59 | |
So, the f... Right. | 0:27:59 | 0:28:02 | |
So what would that mean then, Eddie? | 0:28:02 | 0:28:05 | |
Well, he seems to regard Charles Patient as his father. | 0:28:05 | 0:28:09 | |
-Yes. -But he's not using his name. | 0:28:09 | 0:28:11 | |
-No. -So, it indicates that he's probably not his biological father. | 0:28:11 | 0:28:14 | |
He couldn't have fudged that issue? | 0:28:14 | 0:28:16 | |
Legally, he would have had to have put what his... | 0:28:16 | 0:28:19 | |
-Legally...legally he could have done. -Right. | 0:28:19 | 0:28:21 | |
-But he chose not to. -Right. | 0:28:21 | 0:28:23 | |
So...which is further evidence that actually | 0:28:23 | 0:28:26 | |
-he's not the son of Charles Patient, I think. -Right. | 0:28:26 | 0:28:30 | |
So how unusual was it in this day and age | 0:28:30 | 0:28:33 | |
for a man to take on another woman's child? | 0:28:33 | 0:28:37 | |
-That's quite an unusual thing, I think... -Right. -..at this period. | 0:28:37 | 0:28:42 | |
But what is special about Charles, I think, | 0:28:42 | 0:28:45 | |
is that not only does he wed her, just after she's had a baby, | 0:28:45 | 0:28:49 | |
-but he's obviously courting her while she's heavily pregnant. -Yeah. | 0:28:49 | 0:28:52 | |
And yet, he still does the honourable thing and marries her. | 0:28:52 | 0:28:57 | |
But to do it in these circumstances I think is quite exceptional. | 0:28:57 | 0:29:01 | |
-He seems quite an interesting guy... -Yeah. -..all in all. | 0:29:01 | 0:29:04 | |
-Another document to show you - it's a Census in 1911. -OK. | 0:29:06 | 0:29:11 | |
There he is, Charles Patient - "Head of the household, aged 85." | 0:29:12 | 0:29:18 | |
-Good age. -Yeah, great age. | 0:29:18 | 0:29:20 | |
He was married, um, "Complete..." | 0:29:20 | 0:29:24 | |
Oh, so he's been married for 22 years. | 0:29:24 | 0:29:28 | |
-That's correct. -To Jane Patient, who's now 72. | 0:29:28 | 0:29:31 | |
So, she's died, Hannah. That's very sad. | 0:29:31 | 0:29:36 | |
-But that's great, isn't it? He was married to Hannah. -Yeah. | 0:29:36 | 0:29:39 | |
It's terrible that she died, but he's gone on to have | 0:29:39 | 0:29:43 | |
-another 22 years of happy marriage with this woman, Jane. -Yeah, yeah. | 0:29:43 | 0:29:47 | |
-Yeah. He was a sticker. -Yeah. Yeah, he was, wasn't he? | 0:29:47 | 0:29:50 | |
And then, blimey, there's two little kids there | 0:29:50 | 0:29:56 | |
with different surnames. | 0:29:56 | 0:29:58 | |
George Maybury - aged 11, William George Keen. | 0:29:58 | 0:30:02 | |
They're not from Essex. | 0:30:02 | 0:30:04 | |
George Maybury is from Sheffield, Yorkshire, | 0:30:04 | 0:30:07 | |
and William Keen is from London, Custom House. | 0:30:07 | 0:30:11 | |
One of them's six. | 0:30:11 | 0:30:13 | |
-These two children with Charles and Jane, now aged 85 and 72... -Yeah. | 0:30:13 | 0:30:19 | |
..you don't see many instances like this, do you? | 0:30:19 | 0:30:24 | |
-No, it's quite unusual, really. -Yeah. | 0:30:24 | 0:30:26 | |
I mean, for a six-year-old boy to be in a house headed by an 85-year-old. | 0:30:26 | 0:30:29 | |
So, what do you think might have happened then, Eddie? | 0:30:29 | 0:30:31 | |
Do you think that..? | 0:30:31 | 0:30:33 | |
I don't really know. | 0:30:33 | 0:30:35 | |
-It'd be interesting to find out how they ended up with him. -Yeah. | 0:30:35 | 0:30:38 | |
Is there any way of finding out any more about these two boys | 0:30:38 | 0:30:42 | |
and why they're there in the first place? | 0:30:42 | 0:30:44 | |
There may be records. | 0:30:44 | 0:30:46 | |
-From the 1870s onwards, you've got compulsory education. -Yeah. | 0:30:46 | 0:30:49 | |
So they'd been at school. | 0:30:49 | 0:30:50 | |
So the best bet is perhaps to go to the Essex Record Office | 0:30:50 | 0:30:53 | |
and look at some of the records there, | 0:30:53 | 0:30:56 | |
which might give you an insight into who they are | 0:30:56 | 0:30:59 | |
and why they were living with Charles Patient. | 0:30:59 | 0:31:03 | |
Yeah. Thank you so much. | 0:31:03 | 0:31:05 | |
It's been amazing, thank you. | 0:31:05 | 0:31:07 | |
There's something really noble about the way that Charles | 0:31:09 | 0:31:13 | |
appears to have conducted his life, | 0:31:13 | 0:31:15 | |
and wonderful about the way that he raised a family. | 0:31:15 | 0:31:20 | |
And this boy, William, who wasn't biologically his, | 0:31:20 | 0:31:26 | |
is happy to call him Father. | 0:31:26 | 0:31:28 | |
He's a man who loves his family, it seems, | 0:31:28 | 0:31:32 | |
and they love him. They want to be with him. | 0:31:32 | 0:31:35 | |
Charles was able to pick up a child out of wedlock | 0:31:36 | 0:31:42 | |
and make it part of his family. | 0:31:42 | 0:31:45 | |
The same's not true of Norman, | 0:31:45 | 0:31:47 | |
because the circumstances in which, | 0:31:47 | 0:31:49 | |
you know, he fathered, um, a child out of wedlock, me, | 0:31:49 | 0:31:55 | |
meant that for him, that was an impossible thing | 0:31:55 | 0:31:59 | |
to get his head around. | 0:31:59 | 0:32:01 | |
I'm really glad that Hannah found Charles, | 0:32:01 | 0:32:03 | |
because she could have been on her own and destitute | 0:32:03 | 0:32:06 | |
and ended up in a work house. | 0:32:06 | 0:32:08 | |
Or she could have found someone really horrible | 0:32:08 | 0:32:11 | |
who'd not wanted | 0:32:11 | 0:32:14 | |
to include her first baby, you know. | 0:32:14 | 0:32:18 | |
Brilliant that she met Charles. | 0:32:18 | 0:32:20 | |
I'd quite like to find out about those two little boys. | 0:32:24 | 0:32:27 | |
Particularly, actually, George Maybury, | 0:32:27 | 0:32:29 | |
coming all the way from Yorkshire to Essex, | 0:32:29 | 0:32:33 | |
and why they were living with my great-great-grandfather, Charles. | 0:32:33 | 0:32:37 | |
Lesley knows that George Maybury and William George Keen | 0:32:43 | 0:32:46 | |
must have attended school nearby. | 0:32:46 | 0:32:49 | |
She has come to the Essex Record Office | 0:32:49 | 0:32:51 | |
to see if there are any surviving records from the local school. | 0:32:51 | 0:32:55 | |
Right, so, | 0:33:00 | 0:33:02 | |
got a log book for Great Easton School. | 0:33:02 | 0:33:07 | |
That's 1889, 1893... | 0:33:07 | 0:33:11 | |
"The 30th - Several children absent with sore throats." | 0:33:12 | 0:33:16 | |
January the 17th... | 0:33:20 | 0:33:22 | |
"Dr Barnardo children being called in." | 0:33:24 | 0:33:27 | |
"Monday - Only fair attendances, the rest of the week far better, | 0:33:28 | 0:33:32 | |
"except Friday. | 0:33:32 | 0:33:33 | |
"Admitted ten children, six boys, from Dr Barnardo's Home in London." | 0:33:33 | 0:33:39 | |
Barnardo children were orphans, | 0:33:39 | 0:33:43 | |
and from what I've picked up, | 0:33:43 | 0:33:46 | |
Great Easton was a place | 0:33:46 | 0:33:50 | |
where Barnardo's sent their kids. | 0:33:50 | 0:33:54 | |
"July 13th - Attendance is about the same as last week. | 0:33:56 | 0:33:59 | |
"Several of the eldest children in the upper class coming badly. | 0:33:59 | 0:34:02 | |
"Three more of Dr Barnardo's boys left for Canada"! | 0:34:02 | 0:34:05 | |
1905... | 0:34:07 | 0:34:08 | |
"Five Barnardo's boys have been admitted." | 0:34:10 | 0:34:13 | |
So, maybe... | 0:34:14 | 0:34:15 | |
..George Maybury and William George... | 0:34:17 | 0:34:21 | |
..were Dr Barnardo's children who got taken in by Charles. | 0:34:23 | 0:34:28 | |
If Charles Patient did take on Barnardo boys | 0:34:28 | 0:34:31 | |
when they were tiny, he'd have been very old. | 0:34:31 | 0:34:35 | |
So that's an incredibly generous thing to do. | 0:34:35 | 0:34:38 | |
He obviously loved children and, um... | 0:34:38 | 0:34:42 | |
..and... | 0:34:44 | 0:34:45 | |
..he was obviously a really lovely man. | 0:34:48 | 0:34:50 | |
Really lovely. | 0:34:53 | 0:34:54 | |
Dr Thomas Barnardo came from Dublin to London in 1866, | 0:35:02 | 0:35:07 | |
and found a city struggling to cope | 0:35:07 | 0:35:09 | |
with the impact of the Industrial Revolution. | 0:35:09 | 0:35:13 | |
In just 50 years, London's population had doubled in size. | 0:35:13 | 0:35:18 | |
Thousands of children were living in terrible poverty, | 0:35:18 | 0:35:22 | |
and one in five died before their fifth birthday. | 0:35:22 | 0:35:26 | |
An Evangelical Christian, Barnardo was so appalled by what he saw, | 0:35:28 | 0:35:32 | |
he decided to dedicate his life to rescuing destitute children. | 0:35:32 | 0:35:37 | |
In 1870, he opened his first children's home. | 0:35:37 | 0:35:42 | |
By the time Barnardo died, in 1905, his charity ran 96 homes, | 0:35:42 | 0:35:48 | |
caring for more than 8,500 children. | 0:35:48 | 0:35:51 | |
Having seen the school register, I'd like to find out a bit more about | 0:35:52 | 0:35:57 | |
those two boys ending up living with my great-great-grandfather. | 0:35:57 | 0:36:02 | |
I'd like to see if they were indeed Barnardo's boys. | 0:36:03 | 0:36:08 | |
Lesley has come to the Ragged School Museum in East London | 0:36:08 | 0:36:11 | |
to meet Barnardo's archivist, Martine King. | 0:36:11 | 0:36:15 | |
I've had a look in the archive and in our records, | 0:36:15 | 0:36:17 | |
and we have managed to identify both the boys | 0:36:17 | 0:36:20 | |
-as having come in to Barnardo's care. -Wow. | 0:36:20 | 0:36:22 | |
-I can give you some limited information. -Yes. | 0:36:22 | 0:36:24 | |
This is one of our admission books. | 0:36:24 | 0:36:26 | |
Every child that came into Barnardo's care | 0:36:26 | 0:36:29 | |
would have been listed in this book. | 0:36:29 | 0:36:30 | |
So, as you can see, first of all we have George Maybury. | 0:36:30 | 0:36:35 | |
-He was admitted to Barnardo's at the age of four. -Age four. -OK. | 0:36:35 | 0:36:40 | |
"On the 1st of May, 1903." | 0:36:40 | 0:36:42 | |
-Yes, that's when he came into Barnardo's care. -OK. -OK. | 0:36:42 | 0:36:45 | |
-This is William. -"William George Keen." | 0:36:45 | 0:36:48 | |
This next column is "Boarded out" and I see near George, here, | 0:36:50 | 0:36:55 | |
-if you go along, that it says he went to Tilty... -Yes. | 0:36:55 | 0:36:59 | |
..which absolutely makes sense | 0:36:59 | 0:37:01 | |
in terms of what I found out about him. | 0:37:01 | 0:37:03 | |
So he went there on the 28th of July, 1903. | 0:37:03 | 0:37:10 | |
George Maybury, um, on the Census was 11, | 0:37:10 | 0:37:14 | |
but age four, in there. | 0:37:14 | 0:37:19 | |
-So he must have been with Charles for a while. -Yeah. | 0:37:19 | 0:37:22 | |
Well, seven years. | 0:37:22 | 0:37:24 | |
Which... It would have been quite common for a child | 0:37:24 | 0:37:26 | |
to remain with a foster carer for most of their childhood. | 0:37:26 | 0:37:30 | |
But isn't it unusual that on that Census there's those two very young children with this... | 0:37:30 | 0:37:37 | |
-I mean, he's an old man. I mean, even by today's... -Yeah. | 0:37:37 | 0:37:40 | |
..standards he's...he's old. | 0:37:40 | 0:37:42 | |
Barnardo's were quite keen, | 0:37:42 | 0:37:44 | |
when they recruited foster carers, to take older couples | 0:37:44 | 0:37:48 | |
because they felt that their life experience was greater. | 0:37:48 | 0:37:51 | |
-Right. -And they'd already looked after their own children. -Yeah. | 0:37:51 | 0:37:55 | |
And seen their own children go off into the world. | 0:37:55 | 0:37:57 | |
-So they had the time, the patience... -So they had the time | 0:37:57 | 0:38:00 | |
and the patience to nurture these children. | 0:38:00 | 0:38:03 | |
Dr Barnardo began his system of boarding out, or fostering, in 1887. | 0:38:03 | 0:38:09 | |
This practice, of sending children from care homes in the cities | 0:38:09 | 0:38:13 | |
to be brought up by families living in the country, | 0:38:13 | 0:38:17 | |
became central to Barnardo's philosophy. | 0:38:17 | 0:38:20 | |
By the time Charles Patient was fostering George and William, | 0:38:20 | 0:38:24 | |
thousands of children were boarded out all over the country. | 0:38:24 | 0:38:28 | |
-This book that I wanted to show you... -Night And Day. -Yeah. | 0:38:28 | 0:38:32 | |
This is one of our Barnardo publications. This one's from 1888. | 0:38:32 | 0:38:36 | |
-And this is the original, is it? -This is the original book, yeah. | 0:38:36 | 0:38:39 | |
And here, Barnardo talks about how the foster carers were employed. | 0:38:39 | 0:38:44 | |
As you can see, we have an undertaking. | 0:38:44 | 0:38:47 | |
So this would have been the document | 0:38:47 | 0:38:49 | |
-that would have been sent to your great-great-grandfather. -Ah. | 0:38:49 | 0:38:51 | |
-You want to..? -Yeah. | 0:38:51 | 0:38:53 | |
So, "This is an undertaking by the foster parent | 0:38:53 | 0:38:55 | |
"for the boarding out of the child. | 0:38:55 | 0:38:57 | |
"In consideration of my receiving the sum of five shillings per week, | 0:38:57 | 0:39:01 | |
"for the lodging, maintenance, washing, school fees, | 0:39:01 | 0:39:04 | |
"clothing and care of such child, | 0:39:04 | 0:39:07 | |
"do hereby undertake that the said child shall be brought up carefully, | 0:39:07 | 0:39:11 | |
"kindly" - that's nice - "and in all respects, | 0:39:11 | 0:39:14 | |
"as one of my own family. | 0:39:14 | 0:39:16 | |
"The foster parent should be Christian people | 0:39:16 | 0:39:18 | |
"belonging to the labouring class, | 0:39:18 | 0:39:20 | |
"should be fond of children | 0:39:20 | 0:39:22 | |
"and should have an assured income from other sources. | 0:39:22 | 0:39:25 | |
"To restore the said child to any person sent by Dr Barnardo | 0:39:25 | 0:39:28 | |
"to receive it, on getting one fortnight's notice of removal | 0:39:28 | 0:39:32 | |
"or equivalent payment." | 0:39:32 | 0:39:35 | |
Oh, so you had a fortnight, if you had a child. | 0:39:35 | 0:39:38 | |
That must have been hard if you'd bonded. | 0:39:38 | 0:39:40 | |
What I would be interested to know is what happened to those two boys. | 0:39:40 | 0:39:44 | |
Unfortunately, because you're not directly descended from them, | 0:39:44 | 0:39:47 | |
I can't give you their personal information. | 0:39:47 | 0:39:49 | |
-But all of that information would have been recorded? -Yes. | 0:39:49 | 0:39:51 | |
I saw in the school records that some of the children, | 0:39:51 | 0:39:57 | |
some of the Barnardo's children, went to Canada. | 0:39:57 | 0:40:00 | |
How would it be possible to find out | 0:40:00 | 0:40:03 | |
whether or not that's what happened to William and George? | 0:40:03 | 0:40:07 | |
If you want to look further into this, | 0:40:07 | 0:40:09 | |
then there are genealogy sites, | 0:40:09 | 0:40:11 | |
-where you can look at passenger sailing lists to... -Oh. | 0:40:11 | 0:40:14 | |
-..find out if they were migrated. -Right. | 0:40:14 | 0:40:18 | |
Barnardo didn't just send children willy-nilly to places, you know. | 0:40:20 | 0:40:27 | |
There were these stringent checks and measures that were taken | 0:40:27 | 0:40:30 | |
before children were placed with families - really strong criterion. | 0:40:30 | 0:40:35 | |
And, um, and Charles fitted the bill. | 0:40:35 | 0:40:39 | |
So, I have high hopes that Charles was a warm and loving man. | 0:40:39 | 0:40:44 | |
Lesley is searching ship passenger lists. | 0:40:47 | 0:40:50 | |
She begins with William George Keen. | 0:40:50 | 0:40:52 | |
Says "Zero good matches". | 0:40:53 | 0:40:56 | |
OK, so I will see if there's anything for Mr Maybury. | 0:40:56 | 0:41:02 | |
George... | 0:41:02 | 0:41:03 | |
..Maybury, and his birth year. | 0:41:07 | 0:41:10 | |
1900. | 0:41:11 | 0:41:14 | |
Oh, wow! George, there he is. | 0:41:16 | 0:41:20 | |
Birth, about 1900. | 0:41:20 | 0:41:22 | |
Departure - Liverpool, England. | 0:41:22 | 0:41:26 | |
So, let's have a look. | 0:41:26 | 0:41:28 | |
Here we are. | 0:41:30 | 0:41:31 | |
So he was on the Tunisian. | 0:41:31 | 0:41:33 | |
"Search the ship, view the Tunisian in the..." | 0:41:33 | 0:41:37 | |
So I can have a look at this original record here. | 0:41:37 | 0:41:40 | |
Wow! | 0:41:42 | 0:41:44 | |
He's the oldest one there by the look of it, age 12. | 0:41:45 | 0:41:48 | |
The rest of them are all eight, nine, ten and 11. | 0:41:48 | 0:41:52 | |
Goodness, this is a kiddie transportation ship. | 0:41:54 | 0:41:59 | |
I wonder if he's still got family living in Canada. | 0:41:59 | 0:42:04 | |
George may well have spoken at length about his early life, | 0:42:04 | 0:42:08 | |
so there may well be some information about Charles. | 0:42:08 | 0:42:12 | |
And who knows what these children had with them when they left, | 0:42:12 | 0:42:17 | |
whether they were given something precious, you know, | 0:42:17 | 0:42:20 | |
like that pair of booties that I showed you on that very first day | 0:42:20 | 0:42:25 | |
that Elsie kept of mine, you know. | 0:42:25 | 0:42:28 | |
Um, it would be amazing to find that out. | 0:42:28 | 0:42:31 | |
Lesley has discovered that, at the age of 12, | 0:42:34 | 0:42:37 | |
George Maybury was taken from her great-great-grandfather's home | 0:42:37 | 0:42:41 | |
and sent halfway across the world to Canada. | 0:42:41 | 0:42:44 | |
George was one of thousands of children that Dr Barnardo | 0:42:44 | 0:42:47 | |
transported from his homes | 0:42:47 | 0:42:49 | |
and foster families in England to the colonies. | 0:42:49 | 0:42:52 | |
To cope with the huge numbers of children being shipped abroad, | 0:42:54 | 0:42:58 | |
Barnardo's ran a special train service from London to the docks at Liverpool. | 0:42:58 | 0:43:03 | |
From here, the children embarked onto ships. | 0:43:03 | 0:43:07 | |
The majority were sent across the Atlantic to Canada. | 0:43:07 | 0:43:10 | |
To try to understand why Charles and his foster son were separated, | 0:43:12 | 0:43:17 | |
Lesley has come to Liverpool, the city George sailed from in 1912, | 0:43:17 | 0:43:22 | |
to meet historian Professor Stephen Constantine. | 0:43:22 | 0:43:25 | |
What you get, of course, is a lot of these kinds of images. | 0:43:27 | 0:43:30 | |
The children here, clearly, are all in a form of uniform. | 0:43:30 | 0:43:34 | |
This is one of the parties that would be sent, | 0:43:34 | 0:43:37 | |
with some overseer from Barnardo to see that they are cared for on the way. | 0:43:37 | 0:43:42 | |
They would arrive in Canada | 0:43:42 | 0:43:44 | |
and then be distributed from one space to their futures. | 0:43:44 | 0:43:48 | |
Can't even sit up straight. This is... | 0:43:48 | 0:43:50 | |
And look at their little faces. | 0:43:50 | 0:43:52 | |
So, this is processing them for a better future. | 0:43:52 | 0:43:56 | |
And then this is the man himself. | 0:43:56 | 0:43:58 | |
And then Dr Barnardo often came to see them off. | 0:43:58 | 0:44:00 | |
He did this quite regularly, seeing his parties go. | 0:44:00 | 0:44:04 | |
And here is another one. | 0:44:04 | 0:44:06 | |
Oh, God. | 0:44:06 | 0:44:08 | |
Look at him, just a baby. | 0:44:11 | 0:44:14 | |
But I think you'd like this one as well. | 0:44:18 | 0:44:19 | |
This is... This is 1904. This is an original Barnardo's document. | 0:44:19 | 0:44:24 | |
-Goodness me. -It's called A National Debt, and what you find... | 0:44:24 | 0:44:27 | |
-This is an original document? -Yes, that's right. | 0:44:27 | 0:44:30 | |
But I think this is the particularly interesting bit. | 0:44:30 | 0:44:32 | |
"Some results already attained. Look on this picture." | 0:44:32 | 0:44:35 | |
"Look at this lad: | 0:44:35 | 0:44:37 | |
"turned out on the streets by a cruel and drunken stepmother." | 0:44:37 | 0:44:42 | |
And then, here we go, | 0:44:42 | 0:44:43 | |
"The pariah of the streets has now become a good-looking, | 0:44:43 | 0:44:47 | |
-"hard-working young man..." -Mm. | 0:44:47 | 0:44:50 | |
"..with a considerable and increasing balance at the bank. | 0:44:50 | 0:44:53 | |
"What is better still, | 0:44:53 | 0:44:54 | |
"he's found week-by-week engaged in Sunday school work, | 0:44:54 | 0:44:58 | |
"telling to others the secret which has so changed his own life." | 0:44:58 | 0:45:02 | |
A total of around 80,000 children are going to Canada before the First World War. | 0:45:02 | 0:45:07 | |
So it's worth thinking about George's own experience. | 0:45:07 | 0:45:11 | |
-He would almost certainly be sent to work on a farm. -Right. | 0:45:11 | 0:45:13 | |
Farmers are keen to get hold of the children - they are cheap labour. | 0:45:13 | 0:45:17 | |
Because they're young, their wages would be low, | 0:45:17 | 0:45:20 | |
and therefore they would become a useful asset. | 0:45:20 | 0:45:23 | |
And then to be placed with people who are not your parents, | 0:45:23 | 0:45:26 | |
or new adults, and then to be told that this is your role... | 0:45:26 | 0:45:32 | |
I'd really love to be able to find out more about what happened to George. | 0:45:32 | 0:45:36 | |
I'd love to find out where he went. | 0:45:36 | 0:45:39 | |
I hope that he went somewhere where there was kindness shown to him. | 0:45:39 | 0:45:45 | |
Well, I think I may be able to help you on this. | 0:45:45 | 0:45:48 | |
I have been able to trace through online records, | 0:45:48 | 0:45:50 | |
so I've not made the contact personally... | 0:45:50 | 0:45:52 | |
But online records say that there is a George Maybury, | 0:45:52 | 0:45:57 | |
-grandson of your George Maybury... -Wow! -..been located. | 0:45:57 | 0:46:01 | |
-That number's in Canada? -Yes. -Wow! | 0:46:01 | 0:46:04 | |
So George has descendants living in Canada, | 0:46:04 | 0:46:08 | |
-and there you have a contact number for him. -Wow! | 0:46:08 | 0:46:12 | |
I wonder if George's grandson knows about my great-great-grandfather. | 0:46:12 | 0:46:19 | |
That would be interesting. | 0:46:19 | 0:46:21 | |
That would be interesting, and it would be very interesting for... | 0:46:21 | 0:46:25 | |
-..a Maybury to meet... -It would. | 0:46:27 | 0:46:31 | |
..a Patient again, after all these years. | 0:46:31 | 0:46:35 | |
You know, I was adopted and, um, my great-great-grandfather, | 0:46:35 | 0:46:39 | |
Charles Patient, | 0:46:39 | 0:46:40 | |
what he did for George Maybury is what my adoptive parents did for me. | 0:46:40 | 0:46:47 | |
-Right. -So, um... So there you are. | 0:46:47 | 0:46:51 | |
I can understand very strongly why you would want to know more. | 0:46:51 | 0:46:54 | |
-Yeah. -Yeah. -Yeah. -Good luck, good hunting. | 0:46:54 | 0:46:57 | |
Thank you, thank you. | 0:46:57 | 0:46:59 | |
PHONE DIAL TONE | 0:47:01 | 0:47:03 | |
'George Maybury speaking.' | 0:47:08 | 0:47:09 | |
Oh, hello, George Maybury, my name's Lesley Sharp. | 0:47:09 | 0:47:13 | |
I'm calling you because my great-great-grandfather | 0:47:13 | 0:47:17 | |
was called Charles Patient, and that I believe your grandfather, | 0:47:17 | 0:47:21 | |
also George Maybury, um, stayed with him for a while. | 0:47:21 | 0:47:26 | |
I mean, this is a long time ago, it's like 1911. | 0:47:26 | 0:47:29 | |
'Yes, yeah, I am aware of that from the information we have, yes.' | 0:47:29 | 0:47:33 | |
Well, I'd be really delighted if you would feel able to meet me | 0:47:33 | 0:47:39 | |
and maybe talk to me about George. | 0:47:39 | 0:47:42 | |
'Oh, certainly. I know from our family records we do have | 0:47:42 | 0:47:47 | |
'some documentation of the time and some pictures from his time | 0:47:47 | 0:47:50 | |
'before he came to Canada. So, absolutely, | 0:47:50 | 0:47:54 | |
'if you're thinking of coming to Canada to discuss this further, | 0:47:54 | 0:47:56 | |
'I would more than welcome the opportunity to share with you | 0:47:56 | 0:47:59 | |
'what we have, where George was involved with your family.' | 0:47:59 | 0:48:02 | |
That would be brilliant. I'm really looking forward to meeting you, | 0:48:02 | 0:48:05 | |
so I'll see you in a couple of days. | 0:48:05 | 0:48:09 | |
-'That'll be great, I look forward to it.' -OK, take care, George. | 0:48:09 | 0:48:12 | |
'Thank you very much, Lesley.' | 0:48:12 | 0:48:14 | |
-Bye-bye. -'Bye-bye now.' | 0:48:14 | 0:48:16 | |
It would be amazing to go and meet George Maybury and see | 0:48:21 | 0:48:27 | |
if George Maybury, who was looked after by Charles Patient, | 0:48:27 | 0:48:32 | |
ever told him any stories about what happened to him, | 0:48:32 | 0:48:35 | |
and about how he felt about going to Canada. | 0:48:35 | 0:48:38 | |
And if George Maybury Jr has any | 0:48:38 | 0:48:41 | |
recollections about his grandfather's experience in Tilty. | 0:48:41 | 0:48:46 | |
I mean, what I hope it might be possible to find out from George | 0:48:46 | 0:48:51 | |
is that George Sr had a happy experience. | 0:48:51 | 0:48:56 | |
100 years after her great-great-grandfather | 0:49:05 | 0:49:09 | |
and his foster son George were separated, Lesley has followed | 0:49:09 | 0:49:13 | |
George's trail to Toronto to meet his grandson, George Maybury Jr. | 0:49:13 | 0:49:18 | |
-Hi, Lesley. -Hello, George. -George Maybury. -How do you do? | 0:49:19 | 0:49:23 | |
-Nice to meet you. -Really nice to meet you too. | 0:49:23 | 0:49:25 | |
Yes, yes, thank you for coming all the way over. | 0:49:25 | 0:49:27 | |
George is taking Lesley to the town where his grandfather | 0:49:27 | 0:49:31 | |
was sent to work after he arrived in Canada. | 0:49:31 | 0:49:34 | |
We're down in an area of southwestern Ontario now. | 0:49:34 | 0:49:38 | |
We're on our way today to Dresden, Ontario, and Dresden is one | 0:49:38 | 0:49:43 | |
of the little communities that has the farms that George was sent to. | 0:49:43 | 0:49:48 | |
George coming over from what he experienced beforehand | 0:49:48 | 0:49:50 | |
was a definite sense of family, and coming out | 0:49:50 | 0:49:53 | |
to something like this would have to feel fairly isolated. | 0:49:53 | 0:49:56 | |
As he is a direct descendant, Barnardo's have agreed | 0:50:06 | 0:50:09 | |
to give George Maybury Jr all the information they have | 0:50:09 | 0:50:13 | |
about his grandfather, | 0:50:13 | 0:50:14 | |
including a record of George's admission in 1904. | 0:50:14 | 0:50:18 | |
We can start off at a time when George first came into | 0:50:18 | 0:50:22 | |
the Barnardo orphanage, and this is a picture taken of him on the day | 0:50:22 | 0:50:26 | |
that he was taken in, by Barnardo's, the day that he was dropped off. | 0:50:26 | 0:50:30 | |
Poor little thing, he looks such a scrap. | 0:50:31 | 0:50:34 | |
He does, doesn't he? Not looking like a very happy day for him at that particular point. | 0:50:34 | 0:50:38 | |
It really doesn't, and he doesn't look particularly well-fed, | 0:50:38 | 0:50:42 | |
and he doesn't look as if he's in the cleanest of clothes. | 0:50:42 | 0:50:47 | |
And this is something we've had blown up. | 0:50:47 | 0:50:51 | |
"Height - two foot 11 inches. | 0:50:51 | 0:50:55 | |
"Chest measurement - 19 inches. | 0:50:55 | 0:50:58 | |
"Weight - 34lbs. | 0:50:58 | 0:51:01 | |
"Right internal squint. | 0:51:01 | 0:51:04 | |
"Mother died in childbirth, September, 1901. | 0:51:04 | 0:51:08 | |
"Children have since been maintained by the father's mother, | 0:51:08 | 0:51:12 | |
"who was about to send them to the workhouse." | 0:51:12 | 0:51:15 | |
William, aged ten, Elsie, aged seven, and George, aged four. | 0:51:15 | 0:51:22 | |
Oh, my goodness. | 0:51:22 | 0:51:23 | |
"The children have often been short of food and are destitute." | 0:51:23 | 0:51:28 | |
Yeah. This is the actual intake photo of the three children. | 0:51:28 | 0:51:33 | |
SHE GASPS | 0:51:33 | 0:51:34 | |
Ah, the Maybury group. God. | 0:51:37 | 0:51:41 | |
How did you feel when you first saw that photo? | 0:51:44 | 0:51:47 | |
-It's a very haunting picture... -Isn't it? -..for me, to look at that. | 0:51:47 | 0:51:50 | |
These are children, there's no smiles on their faces. | 0:51:50 | 0:51:54 | |
There's no hope, there's just three children being dropped off | 0:51:54 | 0:51:57 | |
some place to go to a completely unknown future. | 0:51:57 | 0:52:01 | |
I mean, you know, the sister, Elsie, the look on her face | 0:52:01 | 0:52:05 | |
and her matted hair, it's just...just rings of.. | 0:52:05 | 0:52:08 | |
-Heartbreaking, isn't it? -Heartbreaking, yeah. | 0:52:08 | 0:52:10 | |
I tell you what, though, George, the thing that does give me, | 0:52:10 | 0:52:13 | |
sort of, a bit of comfort about this picture is the way that | 0:52:13 | 0:52:16 | |
she's leaning in to baby George. There's a bit of affection there | 0:52:16 | 0:52:19 | |
-and he's leaning his cheek on her head. -Mm-hm. | 0:52:19 | 0:52:22 | |
There's a bit of comfort to be had from his older sister, if nowhere else in the world. | 0:52:22 | 0:52:27 | |
-Yeah, very good observation. -Thank goodness. -Yes, exactly. | 0:52:27 | 0:52:30 | |
George has also found two photos of his grandfather that were taken | 0:52:30 | 0:52:36 | |
while he was living with Lesley's great-great-grandfather in Essex. | 0:52:36 | 0:52:40 | |
While he was with your great-grandfather, | 0:52:40 | 0:52:43 | |
they arranged to have some pictures taken of George. | 0:52:43 | 0:52:46 | |
These were a few years later, taken in Dunmow. | 0:52:46 | 0:52:49 | |
SHE GASPS | 0:52:49 | 0:52:50 | |
-And it's showing how much he's come along. -Aw, look at him! | 0:52:50 | 0:52:54 | |
-They got him spectacles. -They did get him some spectacles. | 0:52:54 | 0:52:58 | |
Odd little spectacles. I have them here. | 0:52:58 | 0:53:00 | |
-That's so...sweet. -We've kept these in our family a long, long time. | 0:53:04 | 0:53:08 | |
SHE GASPS Goodness me, look at those. | 0:53:08 | 0:53:10 | |
So, those are over 100 years old. | 0:53:10 | 0:53:12 | |
And that was something that Charles obviously did for him. | 0:53:12 | 0:53:16 | |
-Absolutely, this is all in the care of Charles. -Got sorted for him, yeah. | 0:53:16 | 0:53:19 | |
Yeah, I mean, I know there's a difference in age, | 0:53:23 | 0:53:26 | |
but there's just something about the self-possession of this boy | 0:53:26 | 0:53:31 | |
in this photograph and the way that he's looking | 0:53:31 | 0:53:35 | |
straight down the lens there, | 0:53:35 | 0:53:37 | |
that there's an air of...confidence and... | 0:53:37 | 0:53:43 | |
Mm-hm. It was more than just a boarding out here. | 0:53:43 | 0:53:46 | |
-I think there is a family that developed from this. -Yeah. | 0:53:46 | 0:53:49 | |
I do know that, um, you know, from time to time, | 0:53:49 | 0:53:52 | |
Barnardo's also went to the foster parents, | 0:53:52 | 0:53:55 | |
-to their location, and they would do a site visit. -Yeah. | 0:53:55 | 0:53:57 | |
-To find out how things were going. -Yeah. | 0:53:57 | 0:54:00 | |
And, this here, this would have been shortly before George was | 0:54:00 | 0:54:03 | |
-sent to Canada, and this was a site visit to your ancestors. -Oh, OK. | 0:54:03 | 0:54:07 | |
So he was visited on February 22nd, 1912. | 0:54:07 | 0:54:12 | |
"Clothing, good stock. | 0:54:12 | 0:54:15 | |
"School attendance, good. | 0:54:15 | 0:54:17 | |
"George is thin and small for his age but reported quite healthy and well. | 0:54:17 | 0:54:21 | |
"The boys seem well looked after and cared for. | 0:54:21 | 0:54:24 | |
"Has been a kindly home." | 0:54:24 | 0:54:26 | |
That's nice to see written down, because they don't go... I mean, | 0:54:26 | 0:54:30 | |
these documents and this time doesn't go in for sentimentality, | 0:54:30 | 0:54:37 | |
so that one sentence actually has a whole story within it. | 0:54:37 | 0:54:44 | |
But it's divine that it's written there - "Has been a kindly home." | 0:54:44 | 0:54:48 | |
Good, I'm really glad. | 0:54:48 | 0:54:50 | |
-And it's a good thing he met your family. -Mm, yeah. | 0:54:50 | 0:54:53 | |
Cos your family is obviously key... key to what he became. | 0:54:53 | 0:54:58 | |
-That came from Charles and Jane, nobody else. -Mm. | 0:54:58 | 0:55:02 | |
His family, his mother and father, would have been your family. | 0:55:02 | 0:55:06 | |
That's all he knew. | 0:55:08 | 0:55:09 | |
-Who did George marry? Your granny, who was your granny? -Mary. -Mary. | 0:55:11 | 0:55:15 | |
Mary Martha Jane, from the final farm Barnardo's placed him on. | 0:55:15 | 0:55:19 | |
And he actually fell in love with the farmer's daughter and ended up | 0:55:19 | 0:55:23 | |
marrying the farmer's daughter in a small community here in Ontario. | 0:55:23 | 0:55:26 | |
That's wonderful. You know, my great-great-grandfather, Charles, | 0:55:26 | 0:55:31 | |
seemed to me to be a man who loved children, who loved the idea | 0:55:31 | 0:55:37 | |
of family, and obviously, you know, | 0:55:37 | 0:55:40 | |
little George, who wasn't wanted, was welcomed with open arms, | 0:55:40 | 0:55:47 | |
-because he still had a bit left... -Something more to give. | 0:55:47 | 0:55:51 | |
-..that he wanted to give. Which is... Which is lovely. -Mm-hm. | 0:55:51 | 0:55:55 | |
I'm very glad that George was on the receiving end of that. | 0:55:55 | 0:56:00 | |
There was something in me that very much wanted to find out | 0:56:07 | 0:56:11 | |
where I was from, you know, who these people were - Elsie and Norman. | 0:56:11 | 0:56:16 | |
I made a decision on my own to find my mother. | 0:56:17 | 0:56:21 | |
The thing about finding my birth father | 0:56:21 | 0:56:25 | |
was potentially something else, because he had this other family. | 0:56:25 | 0:56:31 | |
My great-great-grandfather, Charles Patient, was a delightful character. | 0:56:34 | 0:56:39 | |
His imperative was to make a family, | 0:56:41 | 0:56:46 | |
and the ties that he forged, he was very faithful to. | 0:56:46 | 0:56:52 | |
And Charles' family included taking on board a child that wasn't his. | 0:56:52 | 0:57:00 | |
I feel an incredible warmth towards him, and...sort of feel very proud, | 0:57:02 | 0:57:09 | |
actually, that, you know, I'm...I'm of... I'm of him, | 0:57:09 | 0:57:14 | |
that I'm from someone with that generosity of spirit. | 0:57:14 | 0:57:18 | |
That's wonderful. | 0:57:18 | 0:57:19 | |
One of the things I found most awkward is referring to | 0:57:21 | 0:57:25 | |
Norman as "my father". | 0:57:25 | 0:57:28 | |
Genetically, he is, but my feeling... | 0:57:28 | 0:57:33 | |
..about who my father is, was, is not Norman. | 0:57:35 | 0:57:42 | |
It was my dad, it was Jack. | 0:57:42 | 0:57:46 | |
He was my dad, and... | 0:57:47 | 0:57:50 | |
..even though Jack's dead, I... | 0:57:52 | 0:57:54 | |
I'd hate him to think that in any way I was betraying that. | 0:57:58 | 0:58:03 | |
Because he WAS my dad. | 0:58:04 | 0:58:07 | |
Depending on who you're adopted by, | 0:58:11 | 0:58:15 | |
I think it can have a profound effect on your life, | 0:58:15 | 0:58:19 | |
for good or bad, and, um... | 0:58:19 | 0:58:22 | |
..I got very lucky. | 0:58:24 | 0:58:25 | |
And I think George did too. | 0:58:27 | 0:58:29 | |
Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd | 0:58:33 | 0:58:36 |