Lesley Sharp Who Do You Think You Are?


Lesley Sharp

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I think that if you're adopted, you can't help but feel,

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somehow or other, deep, deep, deep down inside, that, um...

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..that you don't belong.

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It makes you feel like you've got a question mark inside you, somehow.

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I mean, I was just told that my mother had had a baby

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and she wasn't able to look after me. That was it.

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And I thought maybe if I did know where I was from,

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that, somehow or other, perhaps there was some sort of answer there.

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I know about my birth mother, but I know nothing, nothing,

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nothing, nothing about my father. And...

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..at my grand old age, I think actually I would like to know.

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I really would like to know where I'm from.

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How many shots are we actually going to be doing?

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-Er...

-Has it has been broken down, you know...

-Yeah.

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..all of the wedding stuff? Has it has been...?

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Best known for starring in detective show Scott And Bailey,

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and with roles in dramas like Doctor Who and Cranford,

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Lesley Sharp's varied stage, screen and TV work

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has earned her a reputation as an accomplished and versatile actress.

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Lesley was born in Manchester in 1960

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and adopted when she was just six weeks old.

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My adoptive mum suffered throughout my childhood with depression.

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So, my relationship with her was tricky

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because there was a degree of unreliability

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about whether or not she was...

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she was going to be well, and, if she was well,

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how long that was going to last.

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She died when I was 15, so it was me and my adoptive father, Jack,

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and I absolutely adored him, I worshipped him.

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Very, very calm and very, sort of, clear.

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So, he was kind of like this brilliant port in a storm.

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In 1990, Lesley traced her biological mother,

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using the limited information that her adoptive parents had been given.

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This is my Birth Certificate.

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My name at birth was Karen, my mother's name is Elsie Makinson.

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When I made contact with my mum,

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I was really nervous.

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You don't know who you're going to meet,

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you don't know who you're going to find, you don't...

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You've got no idea at all.

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Um...it's scary, it's really scary.

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Picture of my mum - there she is, looking quite neat.

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What she did tell me was that

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she had an affair with a man that she was working with,

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but the problem was that he was married and he had children.

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And then she got pregnant, by accident, and they decided that

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it would be for the best if the baby was given up for adoption.

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And she breast-fed me right up until the moment

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that she handed me over, and... it was pretty harsh.

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She took these.

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These are the little baby booties

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that I was wearing the last time she ever held me in her arms,

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as a baby, she took these off my feet and kept them.

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My Auntie Margaret gave me these when my mum died.

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My mother told me my father's name,

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and it's a very unusual name - surname.

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His first name was Norman, but his surname is Patient.

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A few months after my mother and I had met,

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I'd bought a Sunday newspaper

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and they had these two old guys in Didsbury, in Manchester,

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playing bowls.

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One of the names underneath was Norman Patient.

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And I looked at this picture of this man and I saw this...

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And I thought, "Oh, my god! Oh, my god! That's my father!

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"Is that...? Is that my father?"

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I picked up the phone, I rang my mum, I said,

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"I think I've just seen a picture of my father in the newspaper, is it?"

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And she had the same newspaper and she said, "Yes, it is."

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And...I looked at this picture and I felt very angry.

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There he was in the sunshine, enjoying a game of bowls,

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and my mum had had to go through all of that on her own.

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So I didn't want to trace him.

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Now, my birth father is dead.

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I wonder - did he manage to keep me a secret?

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And, if he did, did anybody guess, did he have that thing about him?

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Did he behave or look like a man who would cheat on his wife?

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Lesley is on her way to Manchester, where she was born.

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She wants to try to uncover the truth about her birth and adoption.

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"I'd like to welcome those of you who've joined us at Milton Keynes Central

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"for this Virgin train through to Manchester Piccadilly."

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22 years after tracing her birth mother, Elsie,

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Lesley has decided to make contact with her birth father's family,

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for the first time.

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She's used an adoption charity

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to get hold of her original adoption file.

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So, this is my adoption file, with...

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..various forms in it.

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The first one is an application form to the Adoption Society.

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"Full name and registration number of child's parents."

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So, "Baby's mother - Elsie Makinson. Baby's father - Norman Patient."

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And then, in brackets, next to his name - "Married."

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"Has either parent any other children?"

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"Father - one boy, one girl."

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"Does the father consent to the adoption? Yes.

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"If not married to the mother,

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"is he liable to contribute to child's maintenance?"

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There's a "Y" that's been crossed out and then, "No".

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"Why is the child offered for adoption?"

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And written here is, "For financial reasons and best for the baby."

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There you are.

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It's kind of weird thinking that all these years that I've been alive

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that there's been a half-brother and a half-sister out there somewhere

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and that it's only, kind of, now that, um, hopefully...

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that we're going to meet.

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And I... And I really hope

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that having found out that I exist hasn't been too traumatic for them.

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I really hope that they're not angry with me.

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But before Lesley finally meets her half-brother and sister,

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she wants to find out more about her father.

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She's going to visit her mother's sisters, Margaret and Nancy,

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to see what they can tell her about the circumstances

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that led to her adoption.

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She first met her aunts when she made contact with her mother,

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over two decades ago.

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I'm now on my way to see, erm, my two aunts -

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Nancy, who was a couple of years older than my mum,

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and Margaret, who was 15 years younger than my mum.

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I'm really interested to know whether or not

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they've got any information about my father, Norman.

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I mean, I know that my mum felt very passionate about him.

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Be nice to see if Nancy's got anything to say about that.

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Yeah, it'll be nice to see her.

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-Hello, Lesley.

-Hello.

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-Aw!

-How nice to see you.

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-Hello, darling.

-Aw, lovely.

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-Hello, Margaret.

-Hello, darling.

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How lovely to see you.

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LAUGHTER

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Cos this is my favourite photograph of her.

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-Nancy tells me she was about 17.

-Yeah.

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-And I love that.

-Lovely.

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So, ladies,

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do you remember Mum coming home and talking to you

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about the fact that she was pregnant and telling you what had happened?

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-Yes.

-So, can you tell me about that?

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Well, I was living at my nana's at the time,

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and she came round to tell me that she was pregnant. She said,

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"And I can't tell my mum." She said, "Will you break it to her for me?"

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-And I did, and...

-What did my grandmother do?

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Well, she was shocked at first. She was really shocked.

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But my mum stood by her all the way through, but nobody knew,

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-only the immediate family.

-Right.

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I mean, when it all actually started...

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Do you remember what happened?

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I remember being left out, I remember not being talked to,

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I remember walking in rooms and people stopping speaking.

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Because it was like, to a certain extent, like I didn't exist,

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and I realise now that they weren't going to discuss it

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-with a 12-year-old.

-Right.

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So, I knew things were going on and I knew everybody was upset,

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especially Elsie.

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When she did go out, Nancy was telling me,

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she had to wear a big coat and sneak round the back avenue

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-so the neighbours...

-Wouldn't see.

-..wouldn't see her.

-No.

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At that time, it was unheard of, really, you know,

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to have a child out of marriage.

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Do you think that she had any expectation or hope,

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while she was pregnant, that Norman might come good, in terms of...

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-..I mean, do you...?

-I didn't get that impression myself.

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Elsie had no job, and she had no support off him.

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-Did she ask him for money, do you know?

-No.

-No.

-No, she...

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-And he didn't offer any?

-No, no.

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No. I mean, he'd never been in touch or supported her,

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else she wouldn't have given you away.

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She wouldn't. She wouldn't have had you adopted, I know.

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I can vouch for that.

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And then, you know, when you weren't going to be kept,

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she went to the mother and baby home.

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For me, it was more about when she'd actually given you up

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-and she came back home.

-Right.

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-And...that's when we would talk.

-Right.

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And that's when, um...

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-That was a really sad time...

-Yeah.

-..and distressing time.

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And she was upstairs and I could hear her crying.

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So I went up the stairs

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-and asked her where the baby was.

-Oh, dear.

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-And, um...

-Did she tell you?

-She told me, yeah,

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that she'd had the baby and she'd had to give it up.

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That was a really sad time. She was very, very distressed.

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-Crying... Oh, it was really, really heartbreaking, but...

-It was.

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..you were never off our minds.

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Yes, every year on your birthday, out came the booties.

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And each year, we'd wonder where you are and what you were doing

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and how you were growing up.

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And I think then, when you did finally, um, get in touch...

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-She always had that guilt feeling...

-I think that was...

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..of what she'd done.

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I know, I did feel that sometimes, her guilt about it,

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which I always thought was so not what she should have felt, at all.

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-No.

-Um, it grieved me that she felt so guilty.

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-That's...that's what, yeah...

-And I think it's a shame that

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-she found it so difficult.

-Yeah.

-Because she'd got an opportunity

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to have such a great experience with you in her life.

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But I think that was a bit too hard for her to deal with.

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-Very hard. And did she...?

-And it was always there.

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Did she ever see Norman again, after that?

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-No, not to my knowledge she didn't, no.

-No.

-But I did.

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-You did? Did you?

-Mm.

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-You saw him?

-I worked for him.

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I worked as his secretary for about 18 months,

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but I didn't know he was your father.

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-When did you find out that it was him?

-Years and years later.

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-So she didn't tell you that..?

-I didn't know.

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But she knew that you were working for him, and he must have known.

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This is the bit that I can't figure out.

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And he must have known, but I didn't know.

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My god, Margaret, what was he like?

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He was a very nice man.

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-Did... So you liked him?

-Yeah.

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Goodness me! What are the chances of that?

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I have no more understanding about my father

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and what his feelings were about my mother

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and what he was doing.

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I'm absolutely no clearer with that,

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and I'm actually slightly nervous about meeting Doris and Tommy now,

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because, by the sounds of things,

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what happened with my mother was something that he kept secret,

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and he went back to his life and he went back to his marriage

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and he went back to his children, and maybe grandchildren - who knows?

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And he carried that secret that he, you know, that he...

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..that he didn't tell them about.

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Lesley is on her way to meet her half-brother, Tommy,

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and half-sister, Doris, for the first time.

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We're in an area of Manchester that I've never been in before,

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and we've just driven past where Tommy and Doris,

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my half-brother and sister, are.

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And I'm going to go now and meet them,

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and, actually, I feel a bit weird about it.

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And I feel vulnerable about it,

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and I feel vulnerable about meeting them.

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I think it's really important my initial meeting with them

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should be off camera, so, um...

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I shall see you after I've said, "Hello."

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After making their introductions,

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Lesley and her new family are happy to continue talking on camera.

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So, um, are you OK?

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-Yes, we're fine, yeah.

-Yeah, yeah, sound, yeah.

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Yeah, we are fine now. It was a shock.

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-Yeah.

-Yeah.

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It was, yeah, because... I can never understand

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why my dad never wanted us to know.

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Well, I suppose I can understand,

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because he didn't want my mother to know.

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But, in later years, why didn't he tell us?

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You know, I just can't understand that.

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I think for him not to have anything to do with you,

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I thought was out of character, it wasn't like him, yeah.

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If he'd have told me, you know,

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on the quiet, when we used to go out for a pint,

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-it wouldn't have bothered me, you know.

-Mm.

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-I'd have loved to have met you earlier, if he'd have told me.

-Yeah.

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-Yeah.

-But unfortunately...

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-He never.

-..he didn't, you know.

-..never spoke to any of us about it.

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-How old were you when I was born, do you know?

-I was 20.

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And what about you, Doris?

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-Were you at home?

-I was... Well, I was married then.

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Oh, when did you get married? How old were you?

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-I was 21.

-When you got married?

-In 1960.

-Right.

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That's me, in February, 1960, and my dad giving me away.

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-That's you getting married.

-Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Sweet photograph.

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When I got married, I was expecting Stephen.

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-Was that the reason that you got married?

-Yes, yes.

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-So you told your parents that?

-Yes.

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-And what happened when you told..?

-Oh, my dad went absolutely crazy.

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-He went really spare, he played up hell.

-Yeah.

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But everything turned out all right, as they do in the end.

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-What date in February?

-The 27th.

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-Elsie would have been...

-Five weeks.

-..at the mother and baby home.

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Whether he had a conscience that day, I don't know.

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-Hm.

-Yeah.

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February.

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Yeah, and Stephen was born in the August.

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And is that Norman?

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-That's Norman.

-That's Norman, yes.

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-That's...that's...

-Grandad.

-Yeah.

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-Yeah.

-That's Dad, or Norman.

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That's weird, that's... And, you know, I kind of...

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..you know, that there he is being a grandad and not a dad.

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-Yeah, yeah.

-Yeah, yeah.

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-Um, but do you know what, it's... I mean, it's fine.

-Yeah.

-Yeah.

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Yeah. It must, I'll not say hurt you. Well, it must do a little.

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-Yeah.

-Deep down.

-Well, I don't, I...

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-That was when he stopped his tram or trolley bus.

-OK.

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So this is from the deputy general manager

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-and traffic superintendent...

-Mm.

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-..to "Driver Patient."

-Yeah.

-Yeah.

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"I have received a report that about 8.45am on the 18th instant,

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"you were observed to leave your bus and go to the assistance

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"of an elderly blind man who had difficulty in crossing the road.

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"This action on your part was seen and appreciated.

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"19th of September, 1947."

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-Yeah, yeah.

-Good for him. That's brilliant.

-Yeah.

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One of the big things about meeting you,

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and maybe seeing photographs and stuff,

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-was obviously to do with physical resemblance.

-Yeah.

-Yeah, yeah.

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Because, you know, obviously this nose is, um, big.

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-Yeah.

-Yeah.

-And, um, you know, you kind of go, "Well, I wonder."

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Yeah, well, I'm not behind... I'm not behind the bush!

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-Yeah.

-No, yours is a good size as well.

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-But it's the shape, too.

-Yeah...

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-And, I think, cos you're...

-Yours is like mine. It bends a bit.

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But, er, now you're here, sis.

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LAUGHTER

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-Eh?

-He's soppy you've come in contact.

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You'll leave here saying, "What the bloody hell, that pair?!"

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-"Who are they?!"

-You know?

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My father was this blank figure who basically left my mum,

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did a runner.

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He had this thing about illegitimacy.

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It obviously kind of triggered something,

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so my mother getting pregnant with me, that was it.

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But actually, you know, there's this whole picture of him

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as this guy who stopped trams for blind people,

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was very involved with his grandchildren.

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You know, there's a proper picture that I've been given

0:20:360:20:40

of a human being rather than this kind of two dimensional,

0:20:400:20:44

and slightly bad guy, that he, you know, maybe has been in my head.

0:20:440:20:50

The other thing is Nor... is the surname, this surname,

0:20:500:20:55

Patient, which is a really unusual name,

0:20:550:20:59

and I'm...I've always wondered where it has come from.

0:20:590:21:04

Tommy told me that he'd received a letter in the '90s from a guy

0:21:100:21:15

called John Patient, who told him

0:21:150:21:19

about the Patient family in Great Easton, in Essex.

0:21:190:21:24

So I'd really be keen on finding out more about that.

0:21:240:21:27

Having reconnected with her birth father's family,

0:21:340:21:36

Lesley wants to dig deeper into the Patient roots.

0:21:360:21:40

She's travelled 170 miles south, to the county of Essex.

0:21:400:21:45

Ah, pretty! It's pretty round here.

0:21:450:21:50

Isn't it beautiful?

0:21:500:21:51

Everything so far has been so northern and so Manchester-centric,

0:21:530:21:59

so it's lovely to be in a completely different landscape.

0:21:590:22:03

John Patient is a distant cousin of Lesley's.

0:22:160:22:20

He's spent more than a decade exploring the family genealogy.

0:22:200:22:24

-Hello.

-Hello, Lesley.

0:22:240:22:26

-Are you John?

-I'm John.

-How do you do?

-Very nice to meet you.

0:22:260:22:29

-Very nice to meet you, too.

-Very nice.

0:22:290:22:31

Lesley and John's first common ancestor

0:22:310:22:34

is their great-great-grandfather, Charles Patient.

0:22:340:22:38

So we've drawn up a little chart here and this shows...

0:22:380:22:43

-Norman.

-..your father, Norman.

0:22:430:22:45

-Yeah. Thomas, my grandfather.

-Your grandfather.

0:22:450:22:48

-Thomas, again, my great-grandfather.

-Grandfather. That's right.

0:22:480:22:52

-And then, Charles Patient.

-That's right.

0:22:520:22:54

My great-great-grandfather.

0:22:540:22:56

This is the first document.

0:22:560:22:58

-Marriages? 1847.

-Mm-hm.

0:22:580:23:03

So, "Charles Patient and Hannah Bush.

0:23:030:23:08

"Residence," both of them, "Tilty."

0:23:080:23:11

-That's correct.

-So they were married in the Parish Church,

0:23:110:23:14

-that's this.

-That's here. So they would have walked down

0:23:140:23:16

-this very aisle...

-Wow!

0:23:160:23:18

-..in front of this lovely surroundings.

-Aw.

0:23:180:23:22

So, I'm going to show you another document, here.

0:23:220:23:25

Oh, right. So this is baptisms

0:23:250:23:29

in the Parish of Tilty.

0:23:290:23:32

Right, I can't see Patient, but what I can see is Hannah Bush.

0:23:320:23:37

And that's William, son of Hannah Bush.

0:23:390:23:42

Hang on a sec...

0:23:420:23:43

..she's down here -

0:23:450:23:46

"Quality, trade or profession" is "Single woman."

0:23:460:23:49

-Yes, I think you've...

-Hang on.

0:23:510:23:53

October the 14th. They got married on October the 16th.

0:23:530:23:59

That's right.

0:23:590:24:00

-So this child was baptised...

-Mm-hm.

-..two days before

0:24:000:24:04

Hannah walked up this aisle.

0:24:040:24:08

So was William Charles' son?

0:24:080:24:12

Or is this yet another illegitimate child

0:24:120:24:19

that is going to have to, you know, um..?

0:24:190:24:23

Oh, it's so...

0:24:260:24:28

-It's almost history repeating.

-Almost?!

0:24:280:24:32

John! HE LAUGHS

0:24:320:24:34

-There is this recurring theme.

-Mm-hm.

0:24:340:24:38

No, we can't do that.

0:24:380:24:40

Lesley has discovered that her great-great-grandmother,

0:24:430:24:46

Hannah Bush, gave birth to a son called William

0:24:460:24:49

shortly before her marriage to Charles Patient.

0:24:490:24:53

But what isn't clear is whether Lesley's

0:24:530:24:55

great-great-grandfather, Charles, was William's father.

0:24:550:24:59

-Throws up more questions than answers, doesn't it?

-Yep.

0:25:000:25:04

This is a Census in 1871.

0:25:040:25:07

So this, again, is Great Easton.

0:25:070:25:11

-Charles Patient.

-That's right.

0:25:110:25:13

He's the head of the household.

0:25:130:25:15

Hannah, his wife, 41, and then there he is - William Patient,

0:25:150:25:20

aged 25, still at home.

0:25:200:25:24

George, 21, Thomas, his son, 17, Charles, is that..?

0:25:240:25:31

-15, I think.

-15, Eliza, 13, Frederick, 11,

0:25:310:25:37

Mary, 9, Harry, 7,

0:25:370:25:42

Sarah, 5, and is that Walter?

0:25:420:25:45

-Walter, that's right.

-One. Cor, so they kept going, didn't they?

0:25:450:25:49

40, so Hannah was 40.

0:25:490:25:52

-Yes.

-And she was still giving birth.

0:25:520:25:55

Ten kids. Great.

0:25:550:25:58

Good, I'm glad.

0:25:580:25:59

I'm glad...I'm glad he had all his children with him.

0:25:590:26:01

And very nice to see that that infant, William,

0:26:010:26:05

who was there when they got married, is there as their boy.

0:26:050:26:09

What would be terrific would be to find out

0:26:090:26:12

-whether or not William was Charles' son.

-Mm-hm.

0:26:120:26:15

Or whether he was Hannah's son by another man

0:26:150:26:18

-that Charles totally took to his heart and family.

-Mm-hm.

0:26:180:26:21

Great. Thanks ever so much, John.

0:26:230:26:25

-That's OK.

-Thanks ever so much, John Patient.

0:26:250:26:28

-Cousin.

-Cousin Patient. THEY LAUGH

0:26:280:26:31

Well, it's fascinating to me that we're here

0:26:370:26:40

in this beautiful English landscape,

0:26:400:26:45

and, you know, it's a world away from

0:26:450:26:49

the red-brick, industrial north.

0:26:490:26:53

But, in spite of that, there are these common themes

0:26:530:26:58

that keep coming up -

0:26:580:27:00

women who had illegitimate children and got on with it.

0:27:000:27:06

And then, suddenly, you know, in the middle of this tale

0:27:060:27:09

that we've heard today, there's this boy, William.

0:27:090:27:13

Charles kept that boy there.

0:27:130:27:16

That boy has his surname.

0:27:160:27:18

Don't know whether it is his child or not,

0:27:180:27:21

but he's there.

0:27:210:27:23

Lesley wants to find out whether William was Charles Patient's son.

0:27:250:27:29

She has come to the nearby town of Great Dunmow

0:27:300:27:33

to meet historian Professor Eddie Higgs.

0:27:330:27:36

So, what have we got here?

0:27:360:27:39

"1871 - marriage solemnized at the Parish Church

0:27:390:27:46

"in the Parish of Great Easton, in the County of Essex.

0:27:460:27:50

"October the 21st..." Oh, "William Bush"!

0:27:500:27:55

Oh, "Father's Name and Surname" is down as Charles Patient.

0:27:550:27:59

So, the f... Right.

0:27:590:28:02

So what would that mean then, Eddie?

0:28:020:28:05

Well, he seems to regard Charles Patient as his father.

0:28:050:28:09

-Yes.

-But he's not using his name.

0:28:090:28:11

-No.

-So, it indicates that he's probably not his biological father.

0:28:110:28:14

He couldn't have fudged that issue?

0:28:140:28:16

Legally, he would have had to have put what his...

0:28:160:28:19

-Legally...legally he could have done.

-Right.

0:28:190:28:21

-But he chose not to.

-Right.

0:28:210:28:23

So...which is further evidence that actually

0:28:230:28:26

-he's not the son of Charles Patient, I think.

-Right.

0:28:260:28:30

So how unusual was it in this day and age

0:28:300:28:33

for a man to take on another woman's child?

0:28:330:28:37

-That's quite an unusual thing, I think...

-Right.

-..at this period.

0:28:370:28:42

But what is special about Charles, I think,

0:28:420:28:45

is that not only does he wed her, just after she's had a baby,

0:28:450:28:49

-but he's obviously courting her while she's heavily pregnant.

-Yeah.

0:28:490:28:52

And yet, he still does the honourable thing and marries her.

0:28:520:28:57

But to do it in these circumstances I think is quite exceptional.

0:28:570:29:01

-He seems quite an interesting guy...

-Yeah.

-..all in all.

0:29:010:29:04

-Another document to show you - it's a Census in 1911.

-OK.

0:29:060:29:11

There he is, Charles Patient - "Head of the household, aged 85."

0:29:120:29:18

-Good age.

-Yeah, great age.

0:29:180:29:20

He was married, um, "Complete..."

0:29:200:29:24

Oh, so he's been married for 22 years.

0:29:240:29:28

-That's correct.

-To Jane Patient, who's now 72.

0:29:280:29:31

So, she's died, Hannah. That's very sad.

0:29:310:29:36

-But that's great, isn't it? He was married to Hannah.

-Yeah.

0:29:360:29:39

It's terrible that she died, but he's gone on to have

0:29:390:29:43

-another 22 years of happy marriage with this woman, Jane.

-Yeah, yeah.

0:29:430:29:47

-Yeah. He was a sticker.

-Yeah. Yeah, he was, wasn't he?

0:29:470:29:50

And then, blimey, there's two little kids there

0:29:500:29:56

with different surnames.

0:29:560:29:58

George Maybury - aged 11, William George Keen.

0:29:580:30:02

They're not from Essex.

0:30:020:30:04

George Maybury is from Sheffield, Yorkshire,

0:30:040:30:07

and William Keen is from London, Custom House.

0:30:070:30:11

One of them's six.

0:30:110:30:13

-These two children with Charles and Jane, now aged 85 and 72...

-Yeah.

0:30:130:30:19

..you don't see many instances like this, do you?

0:30:190:30:24

-No, it's quite unusual, really.

-Yeah.

0:30:240:30:26

I mean, for a six-year-old boy to be in a house headed by an 85-year-old.

0:30:260:30:29

So, what do you think might have happened then, Eddie?

0:30:290:30:31

Do you think that..?

0:30:310:30:33

I don't really know.

0:30:330:30:35

-It'd be interesting to find out how they ended up with him.

-Yeah.

0:30:350:30:38

Is there any way of finding out any more about these two boys

0:30:380:30:42

and why they're there in the first place?

0:30:420:30:44

There may be records.

0:30:440:30:46

-From the 1870s onwards, you've got compulsory education.

-Yeah.

0:30:460:30:49

So they'd been at school.

0:30:490:30:50

So the best bet is perhaps to go to the Essex Record Office

0:30:500:30:53

and look at some of the records there,

0:30:530:30:56

which might give you an insight into who they are

0:30:560:30:59

and why they were living with Charles Patient.

0:30:590:31:03

Yeah. Thank you so much.

0:31:030:31:05

It's been amazing, thank you.

0:31:050:31:07

There's something really noble about the way that Charles

0:31:090:31:13

appears to have conducted his life,

0:31:130:31:15

and wonderful about the way that he raised a family.

0:31:150:31:20

And this boy, William, who wasn't biologically his,

0:31:200:31:26

is happy to call him Father.

0:31:260:31:28

He's a man who loves his family, it seems,

0:31:280:31:32

and they love him. They want to be with him.

0:31:320:31:35

Charles was able to pick up a child out of wedlock

0:31:360:31:42

and make it part of his family.

0:31:420:31:45

The same's not true of Norman,

0:31:450:31:47

because the circumstances in which,

0:31:470:31:49

you know, he fathered, um, a child out of wedlock, me,

0:31:490:31:55

meant that for him, that was an impossible thing

0:31:550:31:59

to get his head around.

0:31:590:32:01

I'm really glad that Hannah found Charles,

0:32:010:32:03

because she could have been on her own and destitute

0:32:030:32:06

and ended up in a work house.

0:32:060:32:08

Or she could have found someone really horrible

0:32:080:32:11

who'd not wanted

0:32:110:32:14

to include her first baby, you know.

0:32:140:32:18

Brilliant that she met Charles.

0:32:180:32:20

I'd quite like to find out about those two little boys.

0:32:240:32:27

Particularly, actually, George Maybury,

0:32:270:32:29

coming all the way from Yorkshire to Essex,

0:32:290:32:33

and why they were living with my great-great-grandfather, Charles.

0:32:330:32:37

Lesley knows that George Maybury and William George Keen

0:32:430:32:46

must have attended school nearby.

0:32:460:32:49

She has come to the Essex Record Office

0:32:490:32:51

to see if there are any surviving records from the local school.

0:32:510:32:55

Right, so,

0:33:000:33:02

got a log book for Great Easton School.

0:33:020:33:07

That's 1889, 1893...

0:33:070:33:11

"The 30th - Several children absent with sore throats."

0:33:120:33:16

January the 17th...

0:33:200:33:22

"Dr Barnardo children being called in."

0:33:240:33:27

"Monday - Only fair attendances, the rest of the week far better,

0:33:280:33:32

"except Friday.

0:33:320:33:33

"Admitted ten children, six boys, from Dr Barnardo's Home in London."

0:33:330:33:39

Barnardo children were orphans,

0:33:390:33:43

and from what I've picked up,

0:33:430:33:46

Great Easton was a place

0:33:460:33:50

where Barnardo's sent their kids.

0:33:500:33:54

"July 13th - Attendance is about the same as last week.

0:33:560:33:59

"Several of the eldest children in the upper class coming badly.

0:33:590:34:02

"Three more of Dr Barnardo's boys left for Canada"!

0:34:020:34:05

1905...

0:34:070:34:08

"Five Barnardo's boys have been admitted."

0:34:100:34:13

So, maybe...

0:34:140:34:15

..George Maybury and William George...

0:34:170:34:21

..were Dr Barnardo's children who got taken in by Charles.

0:34:230:34:28

If Charles Patient did take on Barnardo boys

0:34:280:34:31

when they were tiny, he'd have been very old.

0:34:310:34:35

So that's an incredibly generous thing to do.

0:34:350:34:38

He obviously loved children and, um...

0:34:380:34:42

..and...

0:34:440:34:45

..he was obviously a really lovely man.

0:34:480:34:50

Really lovely.

0:34:530:34:54

Dr Thomas Barnardo came from Dublin to London in 1866,

0:35:020:35:07

and found a city struggling to cope

0:35:070:35:09

with the impact of the Industrial Revolution.

0:35:090:35:13

In just 50 years, London's population had doubled in size.

0:35:130:35:18

Thousands of children were living in terrible poverty,

0:35:180:35:22

and one in five died before their fifth birthday.

0:35:220:35:26

An Evangelical Christian, Barnardo was so appalled by what he saw,

0:35:280:35:32

he decided to dedicate his life to rescuing destitute children.

0:35:320:35:37

In 1870, he opened his first children's home.

0:35:370:35:42

By the time Barnardo died, in 1905, his charity ran 96 homes,

0:35:420:35:48

caring for more than 8,500 children.

0:35:480:35:51

Having seen the school register, I'd like to find out a bit more about

0:35:520:35:57

those two boys ending up living with my great-great-grandfather.

0:35:570:36:02

I'd like to see if they were indeed Barnardo's boys.

0:36:030:36:08

Lesley has come to the Ragged School Museum in East London

0:36:080:36:11

to meet Barnardo's archivist, Martine King.

0:36:110:36:15

I've had a look in the archive and in our records,

0:36:150:36:17

and we have managed to identify both the boys

0:36:170:36:20

-as having come in to Barnardo's care.

-Wow.

0:36:200:36:22

-I can give you some limited information.

-Yes.

0:36:220:36:24

This is one of our admission books.

0:36:240:36:26

Every child that came into Barnardo's care

0:36:260:36:29

would have been listed in this book.

0:36:290:36:30

So, as you can see, first of all we have George Maybury.

0:36:300:36:35

-He was admitted to Barnardo's at the age of four.

-Age four.

-OK.

0:36:350:36:40

"On the 1st of May, 1903."

0:36:400:36:42

-Yes, that's when he came into Barnardo's care.

-OK.

-OK.

0:36:420:36:45

-This is William.

-"William George Keen."

0:36:450:36:48

This next column is "Boarded out" and I see near George, here,

0:36:500:36:55

-if you go along, that it says he went to Tilty...

-Yes.

0:36:550:36:59

..which absolutely makes sense

0:36:590:37:01

in terms of what I found out about him.

0:37:010:37:03

So he went there on the 28th of July, 1903.

0:37:030:37:10

George Maybury, um, on the Census was 11,

0:37:100:37:14

but age four, in there.

0:37:140:37:19

-So he must have been with Charles for a while.

-Yeah.

0:37:190:37:22

Well, seven years.

0:37:220:37:24

Which... It would have been quite common for a child

0:37:240:37:26

to remain with a foster carer for most of their childhood.

0:37:260:37:30

But isn't it unusual that on that Census there's those two very young children with this...

0:37:300:37:37

-I mean, he's an old man. I mean, even by today's...

-Yeah.

0:37:370:37:40

..standards he's...he's old.

0:37:400:37:42

Barnardo's were quite keen,

0:37:420:37:44

when they recruited foster carers, to take older couples

0:37:440:37:48

because they felt that their life experience was greater.

0:37:480:37:51

-Right.

-And they'd already looked after their own children.

-Yeah.

0:37:510:37:55

And seen their own children go off into the world.

0:37:550:37:57

-So they had the time, the patience...

-So they had the time

0:37:570:38:00

and the patience to nurture these children.

0:38:000:38:03

Dr Barnardo began his system of boarding out, or fostering, in 1887.

0:38:030:38:09

This practice, of sending children from care homes in the cities

0:38:090:38:13

to be brought up by families living in the country,

0:38:130:38:17

became central to Barnardo's philosophy.

0:38:170:38:20

By the time Charles Patient was fostering George and William,

0:38:200:38:24

thousands of children were boarded out all over the country.

0:38:240:38:28

-This book that I wanted to show you...

-Night And Day.

-Yeah.

0:38:280:38:32

This is one of our Barnardo publications. This one's from 1888.

0:38:320:38:36

-And this is the original, is it?

-This is the original book, yeah.

0:38:360:38:39

And here, Barnardo talks about how the foster carers were employed.

0:38:390:38:44

As you can see, we have an undertaking.

0:38:440:38:47

So this would have been the document

0:38:470:38:49

-that would have been sent to your great-great-grandfather.

-Ah.

0:38:490:38:51

-You want to..?

-Yeah.

0:38:510:38:53

So, "This is an undertaking by the foster parent

0:38:530:38:55

"for the boarding out of the child.

0:38:550:38:57

"In consideration of my receiving the sum of five shillings per week,

0:38:570:39:01

"for the lodging, maintenance, washing, school fees,

0:39:010:39:04

"clothing and care of such child,

0:39:040:39:07

"do hereby undertake that the said child shall be brought up carefully,

0:39:070:39:11

"kindly" - that's nice - "and in all respects,

0:39:110:39:14

"as one of my own family.

0:39:140:39:16

"The foster parent should be Christian people

0:39:160:39:18

"belonging to the labouring class,

0:39:180:39:20

"should be fond of children

0:39:200:39:22

"and should have an assured income from other sources.

0:39:220:39:25

"To restore the said child to any person sent by Dr Barnardo

0:39:250:39:28

"to receive it, on getting one fortnight's notice of removal

0:39:280:39:32

"or equivalent payment."

0:39:320:39:35

Oh, so you had a fortnight, if you had a child.

0:39:350:39:38

That must have been hard if you'd bonded.

0:39:380:39:40

What I would be interested to know is what happened to those two boys.

0:39:400:39:44

Unfortunately, because you're not directly descended from them,

0:39:440:39:47

I can't give you their personal information.

0:39:470:39:49

-But all of that information would have been recorded?

-Yes.

0:39:490:39:51

I saw in the school records that some of the children,

0:39:510:39:57

some of the Barnardo's children, went to Canada.

0:39:570:40:00

How would it be possible to find out

0:40:000:40:03

whether or not that's what happened to William and George?

0:40:030:40:07

If you want to look further into this,

0:40:070:40:09

then there are genealogy sites,

0:40:090:40:11

-where you can look at passenger sailing lists to...

-Oh.

0:40:110:40:14

-..find out if they were migrated.

-Right.

0:40:140:40:18

Barnardo didn't just send children willy-nilly to places, you know.

0:40:200:40:27

There were these stringent checks and measures that were taken

0:40:270:40:30

before children were placed with families - really strong criterion.

0:40:300:40:35

And, um, and Charles fitted the bill.

0:40:350:40:39

So, I have high hopes that Charles was a warm and loving man.

0:40:390:40:44

Lesley is searching ship passenger lists.

0:40:470:40:50

She begins with William George Keen.

0:40:500:40:52

Says "Zero good matches".

0:40:530:40:56

OK, so I will see if there's anything for Mr Maybury.

0:40:560:41:02

George...

0:41:020:41:03

..Maybury, and his birth year.

0:41:070:41:10

1900.

0:41:110:41:14

Oh, wow! George, there he is.

0:41:160:41:20

Birth, about 1900.

0:41:200:41:22

Departure - Liverpool, England.

0:41:220:41:26

So, let's have a look.

0:41:260:41:28

Here we are.

0:41:300:41:31

So he was on the Tunisian.

0:41:310:41:33

"Search the ship, view the Tunisian in the..."

0:41:330:41:37

So I can have a look at this original record here.

0:41:370:41:40

Wow!

0:41:420:41:44

He's the oldest one there by the look of it, age 12.

0:41:450:41:48

The rest of them are all eight, nine, ten and 11.

0:41:480:41:52

Goodness, this is a kiddie transportation ship.

0:41:540:41:59

I wonder if he's still got family living in Canada.

0:41:590:42:04

George may well have spoken at length about his early life,

0:42:040:42:08

so there may well be some information about Charles.

0:42:080:42:12

And who knows what these children had with them when they left,

0:42:120:42:17

whether they were given something precious, you know,

0:42:170:42:20

like that pair of booties that I showed you on that very first day

0:42:200:42:25

that Elsie kept of mine, you know.

0:42:250:42:28

Um, it would be amazing to find that out.

0:42:280:42:31

Lesley has discovered that, at the age of 12,

0:42:340:42:37

George Maybury was taken from her great-great-grandfather's home

0:42:370:42:41

and sent halfway across the world to Canada.

0:42:410:42:44

George was one of thousands of children that Dr Barnardo

0:42:440:42:47

transported from his homes

0:42:470:42:49

and foster families in England to the colonies.

0:42:490:42:52

To cope with the huge numbers of children being shipped abroad,

0:42:540:42:58

Barnardo's ran a special train service from London to the docks at Liverpool.

0:42:580:43:03

From here, the children embarked onto ships.

0:43:030:43:07

The majority were sent across the Atlantic to Canada.

0:43:070:43:10

To try to understand why Charles and his foster son were separated,

0:43:120:43:17

Lesley has come to Liverpool, the city George sailed from in 1912,

0:43:170:43:22

to meet historian Professor Stephen Constantine.

0:43:220:43:25

What you get, of course, is a lot of these kinds of images.

0:43:270:43:30

The children here, clearly, are all in a form of uniform.

0:43:300:43:34

This is one of the parties that would be sent,

0:43:340:43:37

with some overseer from Barnardo to see that they are cared for on the way.

0:43:370:43:42

They would arrive in Canada

0:43:420:43:44

and then be distributed from one space to their futures.

0:43:440:43:48

Can't even sit up straight. This is...

0:43:480:43:50

And look at their little faces.

0:43:500:43:52

So, this is processing them for a better future.

0:43:520:43:56

And then this is the man himself.

0:43:560:43:58

And then Dr Barnardo often came to see them off.

0:43:580:44:00

He did this quite regularly, seeing his parties go.

0:44:000:44:04

And here is another one.

0:44:040:44:06

Oh, God.

0:44:060:44:08

Look at him, just a baby.

0:44:110:44:14

But I think you'd like this one as well.

0:44:180:44:19

This is... This is 1904. This is an original Barnardo's document.

0:44:190:44:24

-Goodness me.

-It's called A National Debt, and what you find...

0:44:240:44:27

-This is an original document?

-Yes, that's right.

0:44:270:44:30

But I think this is the particularly interesting bit.

0:44:300:44:32

"Some results already attained. Look on this picture."

0:44:320:44:35

"Look at this lad:

0:44:350:44:37

"turned out on the streets by a cruel and drunken stepmother."

0:44:370:44:42

And then, here we go,

0:44:420:44:43

"The pariah of the streets has now become a good-looking,

0:44:430:44:47

-"hard-working young man..."

-Mm.

0:44:470:44:50

"..with a considerable and increasing balance at the bank.

0:44:500:44:53

"What is better still,

0:44:530:44:54

"he's found week-by-week engaged in Sunday school work,

0:44:540:44:58

"telling to others the secret which has so changed his own life."

0:44:580:45:02

A total of around 80,000 children are going to Canada before the First World War.

0:45:020:45:07

So it's worth thinking about George's own experience.

0:45:070:45:11

-He would almost certainly be sent to work on a farm.

-Right.

0:45:110:45:13

Farmers are keen to get hold of the children - they are cheap labour.

0:45:130:45:17

Because they're young, their wages would be low,

0:45:170:45:20

and therefore they would become a useful asset.

0:45:200:45:23

And then to be placed with people who are not your parents,

0:45:230:45:26

or new adults, and then to be told that this is your role...

0:45:260:45:32

I'd really love to be able to find out more about what happened to George.

0:45:320:45:36

I'd love to find out where he went.

0:45:360:45:39

I hope that he went somewhere where there was kindness shown to him.

0:45:390:45:45

Well, I think I may be able to help you on this.

0:45:450:45:48

I have been able to trace through online records,

0:45:480:45:50

so I've not made the contact personally...

0:45:500:45:52

But online records say that there is a George Maybury,

0:45:520:45:57

-grandson of your George Maybury...

-Wow!

-..been located.

0:45:570:46:01

-That number's in Canada?

-Yes.

-Wow!

0:46:010:46:04

So George has descendants living in Canada,

0:46:040:46:08

-and there you have a contact number for him.

-Wow!

0:46:080:46:12

I wonder if George's grandson knows about my great-great-grandfather.

0:46:120:46:19

That would be interesting.

0:46:190:46:21

That would be interesting, and it would be very interesting for...

0:46:210:46:25

-..a Maybury to meet...

-It would.

0:46:270:46:31

..a Patient again, after all these years.

0:46:310:46:35

You know, I was adopted and, um, my great-great-grandfather,

0:46:350:46:39

Charles Patient,

0:46:390:46:40

what he did for George Maybury is what my adoptive parents did for me.

0:46:400:46:47

-Right.

-So, um... So there you are.

0:46:470:46:51

I can understand very strongly why you would want to know more.

0:46:510:46:54

-Yeah.

-Yeah.

-Yeah.

-Good luck, good hunting.

0:46:540:46:57

Thank you, thank you.

0:46:570:46:59

PHONE DIAL TONE

0:47:010:47:03

'George Maybury speaking.'

0:47:080:47:09

Oh, hello, George Maybury, my name's Lesley Sharp.

0:47:090:47:13

I'm calling you because my great-great-grandfather

0:47:130:47:17

was called Charles Patient, and that I believe your grandfather,

0:47:170:47:21

also George Maybury, um, stayed with him for a while.

0:47:210:47:26

I mean, this is a long time ago, it's like 1911.

0:47:260:47:29

'Yes, yeah, I am aware of that from the information we have, yes.'

0:47:290:47:33

Well, I'd be really delighted if you would feel able to meet me

0:47:330:47:39

and maybe talk to me about George.

0:47:390:47:42

'Oh, certainly. I know from our family records we do have

0:47:420:47:47

'some documentation of the time and some pictures from his time

0:47:470:47:50

'before he came to Canada. So, absolutely,

0:47:500:47:54

'if you're thinking of coming to Canada to discuss this further,

0:47:540:47:56

'I would more than welcome the opportunity to share with you

0:47:560:47:59

'what we have, where George was involved with your family.'

0:47:590:48:02

That would be brilliant. I'm really looking forward to meeting you,

0:48:020:48:05

so I'll see you in a couple of days.

0:48:050:48:09

-'That'll be great, I look forward to it.'

-OK, take care, George.

0:48:090:48:12

'Thank you very much, Lesley.'

0:48:120:48:14

-Bye-bye.

-'Bye-bye now.'

0:48:140:48:16

It would be amazing to go and meet George Maybury and see

0:48:210:48:27

if George Maybury, who was looked after by Charles Patient,

0:48:270:48:32

ever told him any stories about what happened to him,

0:48:320:48:35

and about how he felt about going to Canada.

0:48:350:48:38

And if George Maybury Jr has any

0:48:380:48:41

recollections about his grandfather's experience in Tilty.

0:48:410:48:46

I mean, what I hope it might be possible to find out from George

0:48:460:48:51

is that George Sr had a happy experience.

0:48:510:48:56

100 years after her great-great-grandfather

0:49:050:49:09

and his foster son George were separated, Lesley has followed

0:49:090:49:13

George's trail to Toronto to meet his grandson, George Maybury Jr.

0:49:130:49:18

-Hi, Lesley.

-Hello, George.

-George Maybury.

-How do you do?

0:49:190:49:23

-Nice to meet you.

-Really nice to meet you too.

0:49:230:49:25

Yes, yes, thank you for coming all the way over.

0:49:250:49:27

George is taking Lesley to the town where his grandfather

0:49:270:49:31

was sent to work after he arrived in Canada.

0:49:310:49:34

We're down in an area of southwestern Ontario now.

0:49:340:49:38

We're on our way today to Dresden, Ontario, and Dresden is one

0:49:380:49:43

of the little communities that has the farms that George was sent to.

0:49:430:49:48

George coming over from what he experienced beforehand

0:49:480:49:50

was a definite sense of family, and coming out

0:49:500:49:53

to something like this would have to feel fairly isolated.

0:49:530:49:56

As he is a direct descendant, Barnardo's have agreed

0:50:060:50:09

to give George Maybury Jr all the information they have

0:50:090:50:13

about his grandfather,

0:50:130:50:14

including a record of George's admission in 1904.

0:50:140:50:18

We can start off at a time when George first came into

0:50:180:50:22

the Barnardo orphanage, and this is a picture taken of him on the day

0:50:220:50:26

that he was taken in, by Barnardo's, the day that he was dropped off.

0:50:260:50:30

Poor little thing, he looks such a scrap.

0:50:310:50:34

He does, doesn't he? Not looking like a very happy day for him at that particular point.

0:50:340:50:38

It really doesn't, and he doesn't look particularly well-fed,

0:50:380:50:42

and he doesn't look as if he's in the cleanest of clothes.

0:50:420:50:47

And this is something we've had blown up.

0:50:470:50:51

"Height - two foot 11 inches.

0:50:510:50:55

"Chest measurement - 19 inches.

0:50:550:50:58

"Weight - 34lbs.

0:50:580:51:01

"Right internal squint.

0:51:010:51:04

"Mother died in childbirth, September, 1901.

0:51:040:51:08

"Children have since been maintained by the father's mother,

0:51:080:51:12

"who was about to send them to the workhouse."

0:51:120:51:15

William, aged ten, Elsie, aged seven, and George, aged four.

0:51:150:51:22

Oh, my goodness.

0:51:220:51:23

"The children have often been short of food and are destitute."

0:51:230:51:28

Yeah. This is the actual intake photo of the three children.

0:51:280:51:33

SHE GASPS

0:51:330:51:34

Ah, the Maybury group. God.

0:51:370:51:41

How did you feel when you first saw that photo?

0:51:440:51:47

-It's a very haunting picture...

-Isn't it?

-..for me, to look at that.

0:51:470:51:50

These are children, there's no smiles on their faces.

0:51:500:51:54

There's no hope, there's just three children being dropped off

0:51:540:51:57

some place to go to a completely unknown future.

0:51:570:52:01

I mean, you know, the sister, Elsie, the look on her face

0:52:010:52:05

and her matted hair, it's just...just rings of..

0:52:050:52:08

-Heartbreaking, isn't it?

-Heartbreaking, yeah.

0:52:080:52:10

I tell you what, though, George, the thing that does give me,

0:52:100:52:13

sort of, a bit of comfort about this picture is the way that

0:52:130:52:16

she's leaning in to baby George. There's a bit of affection there

0:52:160:52:19

-and he's leaning his cheek on her head.

-Mm-hm.

0:52:190:52:22

There's a bit of comfort to be had from his older sister, if nowhere else in the world.

0:52:220:52:27

-Yeah, very good observation.

-Thank goodness.

-Yes, exactly.

0:52:270:52:30

George has also found two photos of his grandfather that were taken

0:52:300:52:36

while he was living with Lesley's great-great-grandfather in Essex.

0:52:360:52:40

While he was with your great-grandfather,

0:52:400:52:43

they arranged to have some pictures taken of George.

0:52:430:52:46

These were a few years later, taken in Dunmow.

0:52:460:52:49

SHE GASPS

0:52:490:52:50

-And it's showing how much he's come along.

-Aw, look at him!

0:52:500:52:54

-They got him spectacles.

-They did get him some spectacles.

0:52:540:52:58

Odd little spectacles. I have them here.

0:52:580:53:00

-That's so...sweet.

-We've kept these in our family a long, long time.

0:53:040:53:08

SHE GASPS Goodness me, look at those.

0:53:080:53:10

So, those are over 100 years old.

0:53:100:53:12

And that was something that Charles obviously did for him.

0:53:120:53:16

-Absolutely, this is all in the care of Charles.

-Got sorted for him, yeah.

0:53:160:53:19

Yeah, I mean, I know there's a difference in age,

0:53:230:53:26

but there's just something about the self-possession of this boy

0:53:260:53:31

in this photograph and the way that he's looking

0:53:310:53:35

straight down the lens there,

0:53:350:53:37

that there's an air of...confidence and...

0:53:370:53:43

Mm-hm. It was more than just a boarding out here.

0:53:430:53:46

-I think there is a family that developed from this.

-Yeah.

0:53:460:53:49

I do know that, um, you know, from time to time,

0:53:490:53:52

Barnardo's also went to the foster parents,

0:53:520:53:55

-to their location, and they would do a site visit.

-Yeah.

0:53:550:53:57

-To find out how things were going.

-Yeah.

0:53:570:54:00

And, this here, this would have been shortly before George was

0:54:000:54:03

-sent to Canada, and this was a site visit to your ancestors.

-Oh, OK.

0:54:030:54:07

So he was visited on February 22nd, 1912.

0:54:070:54:12

"Clothing, good stock.

0:54:120:54:15

"School attendance, good.

0:54:150:54:17

"George is thin and small for his age but reported quite healthy and well.

0:54:170:54:21

"The boys seem well looked after and cared for.

0:54:210:54:24

"Has been a kindly home."

0:54:240:54:26

That's nice to see written down, because they don't go... I mean,

0:54:260:54:30

these documents and this time doesn't go in for sentimentality,

0:54:300:54:37

so that one sentence actually has a whole story within it.

0:54:370:54:44

But it's divine that it's written there - "Has been a kindly home."

0:54:440:54:48

Good, I'm really glad.

0:54:480:54:50

-And it's a good thing he met your family.

-Mm, yeah.

0:54:500:54:53

Cos your family is obviously key... key to what he became.

0:54:530:54:58

-That came from Charles and Jane, nobody else.

-Mm.

0:54:580:55:02

His family, his mother and father, would have been your family.

0:55:020:55:06

That's all he knew.

0:55:080:55:09

-Who did George marry? Your granny, who was your granny?

-Mary.

-Mary.

0:55:110:55:15

Mary Martha Jane, from the final farm Barnardo's placed him on.

0:55:150:55:19

And he actually fell in love with the farmer's daughter and ended up

0:55:190:55:23

marrying the farmer's daughter in a small community here in Ontario.

0:55:230:55:26

That's wonderful. You know, my great-great-grandfather, Charles,

0:55:260:55:31

seemed to me to be a man who loved children, who loved the idea

0:55:310:55:37

of family, and obviously, you know,

0:55:370:55:40

little George, who wasn't wanted, was welcomed with open arms,

0:55:400:55:47

-because he still had a bit left...

-Something more to give.

0:55:470:55:51

-..that he wanted to give. Which is... Which is lovely.

-Mm-hm.

0:55:510:55:55

I'm very glad that George was on the receiving end of that.

0:55:550:56:00

There was something in me that very much wanted to find out

0:56:070:56:11

where I was from, you know, who these people were - Elsie and Norman.

0:56:110:56:16

I made a decision on my own to find my mother.

0:56:170:56:21

The thing about finding my birth father

0:56:210:56:25

was potentially something else, because he had this other family.

0:56:250:56:31

My great-great-grandfather, Charles Patient, was a delightful character.

0:56:340:56:39

His imperative was to make a family,

0:56:410:56:46

and the ties that he forged, he was very faithful to.

0:56:460:56:52

And Charles' family included taking on board a child that wasn't his.

0:56:520:57:00

I feel an incredible warmth towards him, and...sort of feel very proud,

0:57:020:57:09

actually, that, you know, I'm...I'm of... I'm of him,

0:57:090:57:14

that I'm from someone with that generosity of spirit.

0:57:140:57:18

That's wonderful.

0:57:180:57:19

One of the things I found most awkward is referring to

0:57:210:57:25

Norman as "my father".

0:57:250:57:28

Genetically, he is, but my feeling...

0:57:280:57:33

..about who my father is, was, is not Norman.

0:57:350:57:42

It was my dad, it was Jack.

0:57:420:57:46

He was my dad, and...

0:57:470:57:50

..even though Jack's dead, I...

0:57:520:57:54

I'd hate him to think that in any way I was betraying that.

0:57:580:58:03

Because he WAS my dad.

0:58:040:58:07

Depending on who you're adopted by,

0:58:110:58:15

I think it can have a profound effect on your life,

0:58:150:58:19

for good or bad, and, um...

0:58:190:58:22

..I got very lucky.

0:58:240:58:25

And I think George did too.

0:58:270:58:29

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