Lulu Who Do You Think You Are?

Can we just try the first bit again, just to make sure it's tight?

For over 50 years, Lulu has been one of Britain's best-loved pop stars.

I got on that stage, I just love it.

And blessed to still be able to do it

and to still enjoy it. It's unbelievable.

# Well-ll-ll...

-# You know you make me wanna shout

-Shout

-# Look, my hand's jumping

-Shout

-# Look, my heart's thumping

-Shout

# Throw my head back... #

They released Shout when I was 15,

and it was a hit immediately, so that was it, I was on the road.

Since finding fame in the '60s,

she's won the Eurovision Song Contest,

topped the charts with Take That,

and she's still touring and releasing new material.

I don't know what I'm going to find, but I don't sort of...

I have no highfalutin ideas.

I'm not waiting to find out I'm really a princess!

SHE LAUGHS

I know!

I grew up in Glasgow.

I was the eldest of four.

We sang a lot, there was a lot of music in my house.

I thought my father was the best singer I'd ever heard.

I think I got my father's gift.

The story of my mother is a big secret.

Basically, she had been given away as a baby.

I never met my mother's real parents.

I don't even think I've seen a picture of them.

The real essence of this is, why did they give my mother away?

That's the real thing, that's what's so confusing.

Lulu has invited her brother Billy and her son Jordan over

to piece together what they know about her mother's story.

-Hey!

-Hey. How are you doing?

-Hey, Mum.

Oh...

BILLY LAUGHS

Ooh. Thanks for coming, you two.

-Aw...

-Good to see you, kid.

-This is a good picture.

-Yeah.

It's us at the beach.

My new frock on. Of course,

I would have to be dressed perfectly, from head to toe.

BILLY LAUGHS

And there's Billy.

Chubby chops!

-How old were you there?

-Three, maybe four.

-She looks happy.

-Yeah.

That was all she wanted.

To have her own family.

What I'm really looking for is... is the answer to why

my mum, and your mum, and your grandmother,

was the only one out of seven children

to be given away.

Why was she the only one separated from the family?

Well, I've looked at it from every possible angle

-and I could never work it out.

-Hm.

There was never any rhyme or reason to it.

-In my mind, you know, it was like there was something missing.

-Mm.

And I couldn't put my finger on it.

Who were the family she grew up with,

and how old was she when she was sort of given to them?

I think she must have been a little baby, a little...

tiny baby.

And the family that took her on were the McDonalds.

So, she found out that...

-..her parents weren't her parents...

-Yes.

..and she'd started a relationship with her natural family?

Yes, she got to know them. They became close.

But we have no idea...we have no idea why they gave her up?

I don't know. Therein lies the mystery.

I don't think my mum had the answers.

I don't think she knew, or we'd have known.

The discovery played havoc with her, with her state of mind.

And with her emotions.

And she became very insecure.

We... Although it wasn't spoken, we understood...

-Yeah, yeah, yeah.

-..don't ask too many questions, don't push it.

There's a lot to be answered,

so I think the only way to do that is for me...

..to go back home.

To try and find out why her mother was given up by her birth parents

to be raised by the McDonald family, Lulu is on her way to Glasgow.

I always love going back to Glasgow,

because I think of it as being my home.

I keep reverting to a thick Glaswegian accent.

She started her research by ordering up copies of

her mother's birth certificate and her grandmother's death certificate.

She was born in Castle Street, Glasgow.

Elizabeth Kennedy Cairns.

September 25th,

1927.

Hugh Cairns is my mother's father.

And Helen... Is that Darling...

Cairns? Who was originally Helen Kennedy,

is my mother's mother.

So, what I have here is my grandmother's death certificate.

Helen Darling Cairns, married to Hugh Cairns, died...

1935.

Wow.

She was only 31.

Ooh-ah.

That's young.

Well, I suppose my mother was...

..seven years old when her mother died, her real mother.

What did she die of?

Peritonitis.

Ruptured appendix.

Profound toxaemia.

Cardiac failure.

Poor woman. 31.

Wow.

She had seven kids before she was 31.

And then, obviously, a very painful death.

No life at all.

My mother was 13 or 14 when she found out...

..that she was not a McDonald, she was actually a Kennedy-Cairns.

She found out at school one day.

Oh, a crucial age!

Sad that she never even got to...

..meet her mother.

I would absolutely love to see pictures,

I would like to know what my grandparents looked like.

Do I look like them?

Does my brother look like them?

The thought of seeing that is exciting.

Feels like home.

But it doesn't seem as big.

When I was tiny, I thought Glasgow was huge.

I'm going to meet my Uncle Jim and my cousin, Eleanor,

who I used to play with when I was young.

I would've seen her the last time when I was...before I was 15,

before I became "Lulu".

I really hope they've got some answers to some of the questions.

Lulu knows that her maternal grandparents,

Hugh Cairns and Helen Kennedy,

had seven children.

Her mother, Elizabeth,

was their middle child.

When she was about 13,

Elizabeth met her biological sister,

Nelly, who told her

who her birth parents were.

Lulu hopes that Nelly's daughter, Eleanor,

and her mother's younger brother,

James, can tell her more

about why her mother

was given away as a baby.

-Oh, my God, hello!

-Hey!

THEY LAUGH

-How are you, Eleanor?

-How lovely to see you.

I was told that my mother

didn't know she was a Kennedy-Cairns until your mother,

Auntie Nelly, came to see her when she was at school,

and told her,

"You're not a McDonald.

"In fact, I'm your sister."

Your mother ran away screaming.

-Screaming?

-Yeah, scared of her.

Says, "You're not my sister."

-Yeah, well, it would be frightening, wouldn't it?

-It would, yeah.

Do you know, I never met my grandfather, or my grandmother.

Can you tell me anything about who my grandparents were, as people?

This is your grandmother.

Wow, that looks like my mum.

That's my mum, really.

-It is very like your mum, isn't it?

-Oh, my God.

Your mother, Auntie Nelly, did she ever tell you stories about her mum?

My mum said that she was a bit of a girl,

-that she liked to go out dancing and things like that.

-Ooh!

Yeah. Even though she had all these children, she still liked to go out.

But to be fair, she had seven kids and she was 31, you know,

-she was only young.

-She was a baby.

Yeah, so she wanted to still enjoy her life.

This is Auntie Betty and Uncle Davy's wedding.

So, that's Davy and Betty.

-Oh!

-And that's your mum and dad.

-LULU GASPS

And there's a wee girl called Lulu down there.

-LAUGHTER

-Oh, look at the bow!

I had the biggest bow of all the children.

You could fly away on that bow that I have on my hair.

And that's our grandfather.

You are kidding me.

I obviously met him,

but I'm not...

-You don't...

-I don't really have a memory of it.

This is another one.

Oh, my goodness.

-Look at those eyes.

-I know.

-Ooh!

-They're quite piercing.

-My daughter says it looks really scary.

He's got a scar from here, see? Which went right up to his ear.

Oh, my goodness! How did that happen?

One story is it just happened as he was coming out of a football match.

One story is it happened in a pub.

It doesn't mean to say that he was a criminal or anything.

In those days, lots of folk had scars, didn't they?

-In Glasgow?

-LULU LAUGHS

Do you know where my grandfather worked?

He worked for the Callie, which was a railway.

But not when the children were small.

So, did Auntie Nelly tell you anything about

our grandparents' relationship?

Hugh was very Catholic, his family were very Catholic.

Helen's were very, very Protestant,

-in the Orange Order...

-In those days,

for a Catholic and a Protestant to come together was...

-..almost impossible.

-Yep.

Both families tried to split them up all the time.

I think they loved each other.

It was like they couldn't live with each other,

but they couldn't live without each other.

They were constantly splitting up and going back together.

-Is that the story?

-And just having babies!

What happened after Grandmother Helen died?

What happened to the kids?

-He stayed with his aunt.

-What happened to the rest of them?

They were left to bring themselves up.

They brought themselves up, their father, lived with their father...

Yeah, he was only a young man and I think he drank a lot.

He would leave them. So, my mum was in charge and she would delegate,

"You steal the milk, you steal the bread, you steal the roll."

So, they would go out and steal it from people's doorsteps.

Your mum always asked my mum, "Why was I the one that was given away?"

My mum used to say, "You were the lucky one."

-Really?

-Yeah.

-Is that what Nelly said?

-Yeah. "You were the lucky one," she says.

-You got out.

-Yeah.

-We had nothing.

-You were looked after.

It stayed with her, that she felt she was given away,

-because she wasn't important.

-No, no...

But in fact, she was saved, in a way.

Cos it was hard with her father.

Living with her father, you know.

No mother, he wasn't working.

The money wasn't coming in.

So, we were very fortunate.

But your mum never saw that.

It must have been hard for her.

"Why did they choose me out of seven?"

The interesting thing to learn was how the Kennedy-Cairns family,

their opinion is that she was the best off.

Because she went to a normal family and had a roof over her head

and had food.

But because she didn't know, no-one gave her any information,

she felt like she'd been abandoned.

She just didn't know. She was left to her own imagination.

So, now I'm really interested in finding out more about...

my grandfather and my grandmother.

-Hey, Jim.

-Hello, Lulu.

-How are you doing?

-Delighted to meet you.

-And you, too.

-THEY LAUGH

To learn more about her grandfather, Hugh Cairns,

Lulu is meeting historian Dr Jim Smith

at the Springburn Railway Depot.

So, Jim, I have found out that my grandfather, Hugh,

actually worked here.

I'm trying to find out more about him.

Can you tell me anything?

Well, we can start with his birth certificate.

Hugh Cairns, born on April 1st.

So, he's born in Glasgow

and then we can pick up his story from the work records from here.

-There.

-Hugh Cairns.

-He's there.

-Mm-hm.

He started working on 13th September...

..1916.

14 years of age, he was working here.

-The school leaving age was 14.

-Aw, he was a baby!

And that's the rate per day?

-Yeah.

-What was that?

-Old money.

-Four shillings and eightpence a day, he got paid.

He was a foundry labourer, it says, but I don't know what that means.

It's hard physical labour.

He's a young Irish Catholic lad,

and most Irish Catholic men worked as unskilled labourers.

For Hugh to start his working life...

..and continue his working life

as an unskilled labourer would be very much the norm.

Between 1830 and 1914, over 300,000 Irish migrants came to Scotland.

And Glasgow, with its flourishing industries, saw the biggest influx.

The new arrivals were predominantly Catholic

and faced routine discrimination,

with better paid, more highly-skilled jobs

generally reserved for the city's Protestant majority.

The date of leaving service was 4th July, 1917.

Cause of leaving the service was - leaving his job, right? -

was bad...

timekeeping.

Seems kind of sad.

Didn't even last a year.

And it's 1916, 1917.

It's the middle of the First World War.

Hugh started work during the war years,

a boom time for Glasgow's heavy industries.

Hundreds of thousands were employed in shipbuilding, armaments,

and on the railways,

which provided vital transport for troops and materials.

They need every hand they can get.

It's full employment.

You'd have to have a good reason to be unemployed.

Which doesn't give me much hope for my grandfather.

Well, don't give up hope yet...

-LULU LAUGHS

-..because, erm, he comes back.

They bring him back? They have him back?

-Mm.

-Fitting shop labourer.

-Yep.

-Was that a move up?

-Possibly a move down.

-Oh, I can see he got less money.

-He was getting less money, yeah.

-Three and eightpence.

Well, better than nothing.

-Mm.

-Um, 19th February.

-Mm-hm.

-1918.

He's been sacked.

Cause of leaving the service,

inattention to his work.

-And it goes on.

-He's not hired back?

-Mm-hm.

-He's back on 9th December, 1918.

And...

Oh, my goodness.

I can't even say it.

He loses his job again.

-Mm-hm.

-So, he's been in and out and in and out.

Why didn't his father say, "Get out of bed, come on,"

and drag him by the scruff of the neck and take him in?

-Does it get any better?

-Well, well, stick with it, stick with it,

-you know, it's, er...

-OK, OK. I'm hopeful.

He's back on 28th...

June, in 1920.

Oh! Things are getting better, he's getting five shillings.

-So, it's gone from three and eight to five shillings.

-Mm-hm.

Oh, and then he leaves again on 11th August, 1922,

-of his own accord.

-Yep.

I just don't understand, why would he leave?

Well, this might answer that.

"This is to certify...

"..that Hugh Cairns has proved himself to be a good workman

"and is a good timekeeper"!

They lied!

But how nice of them!

"This certificate is granted on the understanding

"that Cairns is going...

"..abroad."

My mind, of course, is racing.

How old was he there?

He's still only 20.

He's 20, he's going abroad, has he met my grandmother?

I'll bet he has.

How would I find out where he went abroad?

Well, the documents to look for are ships' lists,

and they will give a list of all passengers.

Let's do it.

OK, so, now I'm going to try and find Hugh on these passenger lists.

Hugh...

Cairns.

Birth year, 1902.

Arrival, 1922.

OK, now, search.

See what comes up.

There he is.

LULU GASPS

Wow.

He went to Boston.

He departed from Liverpool

and arrived in Boston on 24th August.

So, now I have the form, the immigration and travel form.

They ask whether he intends to go home after having a short

sort of working sabbatical in America.

He says no, he's not intending to go home.

And then, is he going to stay in America?

And he says - "Always".

Maybe that's what he intended, but it didn't work out for him.

It says here, "Suggested Records". Let's see now.

Oh, my God, this is in German!

Port of departure, Hamburg.

Destination, Grimsby.

So, OK,

he leaves for America in August and he's back in the UK by November.

But what happened to Boston?

Maybe my cousin Eleanor would know.

Eleanor, it's Lu.

-ON PHONE:

-Hi, hello, how are you?

I'm good.

I actually found the documents that told me that our grandfather...

..travelled by ship

to Boston, Massachusetts.

But he was back in the UK within three months.

Yeah, the family had clubbed together

and sent him to America to get him away from our grandmother.

They were going out together and, obviously, as you know,

the family disapproved.

And, erm, so they clubbed together, sent him to America

and hoped that he wouldn't come back,

but he missed her so much

that he got a job on a German tanker and worked

his way back to Hamburg -

and from Hamburg, he made his way back to Glasgow

to see her again.

-And then they got back together.

-Quite clearly...

..the parents did not want this to happen, at all.

-Absolutely not.

-ELEANOR LAUGHS

Well, thank you, sweetheart, for clearing that up. Um...

-So, I'll speak to you soon, yes?

-Yes. Lovely.

Lulu now knows that her grandparents' enforced separation

didn't last long.

Hugh and Helen were reunited by the end of 1922.

To find out what happened to the couple next,

she's meeting historian Dr Bill Knox at the Glasgow Green Winter Gardens.

Hey, Bill.

Let me give you this document.

-Now, this is a birth certificate.

-Glasses again.

-We can give you this.

Oh, that's great.

Colin...

McGill Cairns.

His parents are Hugh Cairns and Helen Darling Kennedy.

They had a baby. Oh, of course, he was the eldest.

He was born in 1923, in October.

Hey, they're not married.

No.

So the child is illegitimate.

Oh!

Shame and horror.

I'm laughing, because of course,

then, it would've been shameful.

The church sees it as a badge of shame,

society sees it as a badge of shame,

but what makes it worse in this case

is it's across a religious divide.

So...

Helen Kennedy

is living at 58 Norman Street.

He's living at 259 Castle Street.

They're both in Glasgow, but they're not living together.

Yeah, the addresses tell us something about

the religious composition of the different areas of Glasgow.

Here, Norman Street.

That's in Bridgeton, that's where she lived.

Now, Hugh lives in Castle Street,

which is in a different district of Glasgow, it's in Townhead area,

so we have to go Castle Street.

-So...

-So, they're miles apart.

What were those two different areas like?

Well, the one word you could use to sum them up are "miserable".

Appalling levels of overcrowding, squalor...

you've got to remember that two thirds of families in Glasgow

lived in one or two rooms.

There was also a religious aspect.

There's no ghettoisation,

but you had areas which had high concentrations of one faith

or the other faith.

Bridgeton, for instance, was more associated with Protestants,

the Orange Order and so on,

whereas Townhead was more associated with Catholics.

After the first child, the illegitimate child,

and living in different places, what happened then?

-Well, let me show you this.

-What is this?

This is another birth certificate.

So, this child was born 31st January, 1925.

-Yeah.

-They're not splitting up, are they?

Let's face it. Hugh Cairns, father.

Oh, he's still at Castle Street.

They haven't moved in together.

-No.

-Two kids out of wedlock.

Yeah.

What a mess.

It's very interesting, if you look at the birth certificate,

because it's a mother's responsibility,

not being married, to register the birth.

And the father's name only goes on the birth certificate

if he accompanies her to the registrar's office.

-Now, Hugh has done this...

-He's committed, then.

-..which is a commitment.

-He is totally committed.

-Yeah.

So I imagine, and it is conjecture,

that the families absolutely refused to allow them to get married,

but they couldn't keep them apart.

And I can see there's another piece of paper,

so I know you've got something else to tell me.

I'm almost afraid.

Well, it's not the end of the story. Have a look at that.

Oh, I'm so relieved.

They got married on 21st February, 1925.

By getting married,

-that legitimises the children.

-The children.

But it's not any old kind of marriage.

Over here it says something on the top line,

something about a regular marriage,

and then there's another line underneath. It says...

"An irregular marriage."

Well, a regular marriage

involves the presence of a member of the clergy.

Irregular marriage is what leads to what we call civil marriage today.

It's simply a question of you saying, "I do," I say, "I do,"

we go with two witnesses

along to a sheriff or a magistrate and you're married.

Why do you think they had this irregular marriage?

They had no option, really.

One's a Protestant, one's a Catholic.

The Catholic Church frowned on marriage with a non-Catholic.

So it is kind of love...

..across a significant divide.

Yes, it's the Glasgow equivalent of Romeo and Juliet.

Because you have anecdotal evidence of women,

-or young men, being cut off by their families.

-Cut off.

Because they moved across this divide.

It says something about this relationship

that you would risk all that.

So love, in many ways, was blind to faith.

It's clear there was a very passionate relationship.

But I have to say, it doesn't look

like their future is bright and rosy.

Lulu has discovered that her grandparents,

Hugh and Helen, married in 1925.

By which time they already had two sons.

Their daughter Nelly was born in 1926,

and another daughter, Elizabeth,

Lulu's mother, followed in September 1927.

Elizabeth was given up to another family not long after her birth,

but Lulu has no idea why.

She's come to Glasgow's Mitchell Library

to look for any records

of her mother's case in the city archives.

Hello, Lulu. Pleased to meet you.

-Good to meet you, too.

-Yep, come away.

Adoption expert Professor Kenneth Norrie is helping with her search.

So, Kenneth,

I know my mother didn't stay with her birth parents for long.

I would like to know what happened.

This book is a book of the record of children who are subject

to local authority visitation, monitoring.

-Mm-hm.

-And this occurs when a child isn't living with their normal,

natural birth families.

So, if we open it at C,

we'll find a reference to your mother.

There she is. Elizabeth.

Birth date, 25th September '27,

and there's her father's name, Hugh.

Yeah. So this is different from taking a child into care.

This is not the public authorities removing a child.

The records revealed that Lulu's mother's parents

gave her up to a foster family of their own accord.

In cases of private fostering,

the birth parents of a child paid for his or her care.

And to ensure that children were properly looked after,

foster families were visited regularly

by local authority inspectors.

The next document is this one.

It says here, "Widow Jane McCoid..."

-Yes.

-"..have adopted child Elizabeth."

What happened?

Because the woman who took my mother had a husband.

Yeah. Your mother was with this family only for one month.

-No.

-For a very, very short period of time.

-Right. The actual heading is...

-Hm.

..beautiful wording.

"How disposed of"...

..which pains me, I have to say.

Um...

She was disposed of...

..on 21st

of the third,

1928.

-She's about five or six months old.

-Yeah.

-Yeah.

-Yeah.

"Father of the child is Hugh Cairns, presently...

"..in prison for one month."

Prison.

Oh, my God.

You didn't know that your grandfather had been in prison?

No. Goodness knows what he got up to.

The father is suddenly out of the picture.

Your grandmother isn't mentioned in these records at all.

That's strange in itself.

That is strange in itself.

But it possibly explains why your mother had to be given over

to another family. If you notice, right at the end...

"No money," does that say?

-Yeah.

-No money.

No money. I think what has happened here

is that the arrangement has been that this widow is to be paid,

but, in fact, she never receives anything.

So does she give the child back?

Yeah.

I have to say, I'm feeling very angry with my grandparents.

Willy-nilly having babies all over the place.

Well, after this month in the first placement,

your mother then is put to a second family.

-The McDonalds.

-The McDonalds.

-Right.

What this is

is the records of the official visitations.

"William McDonald,

"Helen Reid,

"date when child received was 14th of the 5th, '28."

So, not long afterwards.

No, it's about a month after she leaves her original placement.

"Terms agreed upon, eight shillings."

Eight shillings for what?

-For how long?

-That's probably eight shillings a month.

It is about a weekly salary of a domestic servant at the time.

And you'll see the official visitor visited your mother

three or four times a year.

And it starts here.

"May 28th, 1928, child making excellent progress,

"well cared for.

"Father is supposed to be in prison,

"mother has disappeared."

-Yeah.

-Her mother's disappeared.

-Yeah.

-Oh, my God.

Do you think her mother had a breakdown?

It's very, very difficult to know.

Then it goes on.

"27th September..." Also in 1928.

"Wrote the father re non-payment to guardian."

So immediately we're into a problem.

There's been no contact with the natural parents of the child

and no money has been forthcoming.

It's quite clear that...

..my mother's parents had, what she always felt, abandoned her.

Then, "1930, April 4th,

"child well cared for and making excellent progress.

"Child not to be given to parents

"until full payment is made

"and if they satisfy us that child will actually be cared for."

The poor law authorities

-are beginning to exercise some muscle here.

-Yes.

They're beginning to realise

-this child is so much better...

-With the McDonalds...

..with the McDonalds than with her own family.

..than with her own family.

So if her own family come along and try to take her back,

as they would normally be entitled to...

They'd have to show how responsible they're going to be by paying.

By paying up what they owe.

And also, as it says,

showing that this child is going to be well looked after.

How would they do that?

After that, I don't know how you could do that.

"November 15th, 1932.

"Child went to school yesterday for the first time and is very..."

-"Pleased."

-"..pleased with herself."

It's a very humanising thing to put in a formal document.

Yes. Very pleased with herself.

I'm crying and I'm laughing at the same time.

I can just see her.

It really gives a flavour of her personality,

even at the age of five.

Yeah, yeah. And she had that.

She was well loved, I suppose.

Cared for and felt secure.

Yeah.

I mean, to honour the McDonald family,

how unbelievable they were.

They are absolutely the kindest, most loving, wonderful people.

That's certainly the feeling that

-comes out of that single sentence, isn't it?

-Yeah.

This is in April, 1935.

"Guardian informed that child's mother is dead."

And she's seven.

The guardians learned that the child's mother had died

and they have now informed the child protection visitor.

I think they've not told the child.

-Cos the child doesn't know that the child isn't theirs.

-Mm-hm.

We have the final record in September, 1936.

"September 25th, child now nine years."

Well, why have they put that in?

This is her ninth birthday

and that is the very final record that we have.

As soon as she is nine,

the official visiting comes to an end and there's no more.

Is she officially adopted?

-No.

-Unofficially adopted?

No.

We've watched her grow up during that period and the state can

effectively step back at that stage.

Some children, as soon as the official eye is removed,

some children will be

in a vulnerable, difficult, dangerous position.

That seems not to have been the case for your mother.

Which, in a lot of respects,

your mother has been a very, very fortunate child.

Yes. Yes, and that's what my Uncle James said.

She was lucky.

I mean, it's so confusing, the whole thing.

Her mother disappeared, her father was in jail.

What was going on?

Yeah. This was a family in crisis.

It might be revealing now

for you to look at your grandfather's situation.

-Yes.

-Particularly his prison records.

That might give you a slightly better picture of actually what...

the pressures that he was facing in that particular time.

Yeah.

I feel emotionally drained.

You know,

thinking about my mum as a little baby, a little person.

I have ambiguous feelings about my grandparents right now.

Yesterday, I felt better towards them.

I'm trying not to be too harsh about what they did to my mother.

Why was my grandfather in jail?

There's more to know about. Because, you know,

my emotional reaction makes me want to blame, you know.

And, yet, I wasn't there.

I wasn't in his shoes.

I mean, it must have been really tough.

To find out why her grandfather was in prison,

Lulu is meeting historian Dr Andrew Davies

at the old Glasgow Central Police Station.

-Andrew.

-Hello, nice to meet you.

-You, too.

Andrew, my grandfather was in jail in 1928.

But I don't know why he was in jail.

I've actually found a record here

which shows, in fact, he was in jail quite a bit earlier than that.

He was?

We found him here in the admissions register for Duke Street Prison.

This is in 1918.

He was born in 1902.

So he was...he was in jail when he was 16 years old?

-That's right.

-Oh, my God, I had a criminal of a grandfather.

What did he do?

It says assault and robbery from a safe.

Does that say £100?

It does.

-Blooming thief.

-In today's money,

that would be something between £4,000 and £5,000.

So that's quite a hefty sum.

That's shocking. I think he was a bad boy, my grandfather.

I've got another record from a few years later.

This is a register for Barlinnie, the next document.

Oh, God, that's a really serious prison.

Where all the bad 'uns go.

"1924, April 1st." April Fools' Day.

"Breach of the peace."

Breach of the peace, so he was in a fight.

He's been fined 21 shillings with the option,

if he is unable to pay the fine...

-Of...

-Ten days.

-Ten days in...

-In the jail.

Got the date of his release there.

April 3rd. So somebody had to come and pay 21 shillings.

Oh, his parents must be so upset.

-And his wife.

-Very much so.

This is a lot of money.

-Are there more?

-I'm afraid there are a few more of these to come.

Oh.

OK. So he's back in again.

1924. May 28th.

And he's in again...

Breach of the peace.

So he's always getting into a fight.

The last time he was in jail was April

and then this is May and he's back in again.

It seems like there's a pattern.

It's really noticeable, isn't it?

He's barely been out and he's back in the jail.

I suspect as well, by this time, Hugh's known to the police.

That's what I was thinking. "Get 'im."

-Yeah.

-"He's a troublemaker."

I think he's probably by now a bit of a marked man.

Is this 42 shillings?

-It is.

-Price has gone up.

They're fed up with him.

They're just charging him more to let him out.

They've really scaled up the penalty, so in fact

-they've doubled it, haven't they?

-They've doubled it.

Because it's gone to 42 shillings or 20 days.

That must have been really difficult for my grandmother.

It must have been because they're clearly struggling to pay the fines.

Oh, my goodness.

It's taking them ten days to bring that money together.

So we have another entry.

SHE GROANS

He's in and out, in and out, in and out like a yo-yo.

Oh, my goodness.

This is 1926 and I think the date of this one is quite interesting.

July 5th.

Once we are into June and July, this is the parading season.

Oh, this is when the religious parades happen.

It is. The number of arrests for breach of the peace will just rocket

during these summer months and it looks as though

your grandfather's been caught up in that.

For over two centuries, members of the Orange Order

have held marches during the summer months to commemorate

the Protestant William of Orange's defeat

of the Catholic James II.

When Hugh Cairns was a young man in interwar Glasgow,

these parades often became flash points for violence

between the city's Catholic and Protestant communities.

If we read along, we can see a fine again.

42 shillings.

Or 20 days.

What's really interesting is

they've paid the fine on the day.

How have they managed that?

Oh, maybe he's part of a...

He's part of some kind of...

-..gang, or...

-That's got to be

-at least a possibility here.

-They paid for him.

-Yes.

In the 1920s and '30s, working-class areas of Glasgow

gained a reputation for gang violence

fuelled by high levels of poverty and unemployment.

And Glasgow's gangsters became particularly notorious

for their weapon of choice - the razor.

There's a picture of my grandfather

and it was pointed out to me that he had a scar

right around the side of his face.

-See there?

-Oh, yes.

You see right around his mouth there?

That's got all the hallmarks of gang fighting.

There's no hiding that.

This gives you an idea of the kind of razors that people were using.

Eugh!

Eugh!

I remember when I was a child

a lot of men having scars.

And I think people outside Glasgow would call that scar, you know,

the one from the ear to the mouth,

they would say that was a Glasgow grin.

I think for someone like your grandfather,

who was obviously a fighting man,

it might almost have been a badge of honour.

Mm-hm. You know, I heard it said...

If you came from the kind of background he came from,

or I came from, men had to be boxers,

or make their name being a footballer.

But the other alternative was to be in a gang, to be a villain.

And you had no other way of progressing, you know.

The problem is, once you're involved in that kind of world...

-You can't get out.

-..it's difficult to get out.

So, Lulu, if I show you another record from Barlinnie.

Oh! "Hugh Cairns, 1928."

-And this is March. "Assault..."

-"Assault and previous convictions."

"Assault and previous convictions."

But this is March, it's nothing to do with the religious marches.

"March 17th."

It's St Patrick's night, isn't it?

Oh, so he's drunk.

He was in a fight, and my grandmother suffers

and quite clearly my mother suffered

because this was when she was first given away.

I mean, right now, I want to kill him.

You know, really, I want to just...

You know, I'm angry with him.

I understand that they're poor and everything's tough.

I am really...

..so sad.

I mean,

I feel sorry for them all.

Lulu has discovered that over the course of ten years

her grandfather, Hugh, was imprisoned no fewer than ten times.

Thinking about my grandparents' life makes me see how

really awful their struggle was.

He, I think, had to be in a gang, or be nothing.

Not to negate the fact that he made choices that were not smart.

And weren't wise.

Her, I think,

she married a wrong 'un, actually.

I don't know anybody who was in and out of jail like that,

you know, and I felt I came from a tough part of Glasgow.

But what makes me sad is that my mother never got that part.

Never got this information.

So she didn't know that, you know,

she was ultimately lucky.

Lulu knows that despite her grandfather Hugh's criminal record,

her grandmother Helen stayed with him

and that after her mother's birth,

they had three more children together.

She now wants to go one generation further back,

to learn more about the staunchly Protestant family

from which her grandmother came.

From a very early age, I was very conscious of being a Protestant.

And you're sort of sworn enemies, even if you don't understand it.

It was just confusing that there was this, you know,

"Oh, tut, tut, tut. Oh, you can't go there.

"You can't be going with them.

"They're different to us."

I didn't... Children don't see a difference, so...

I remember my Uncle Jim saying that he though his grandmother's family

were involved with the Orange Lodge.

Um...

So I'd like to know if they were.

How involved they were.

To find out about her family's role in the Orange Order,

Lulu has come to the Orange Lodge an Tullis Street,

in Glasgow's East End

to meet historian Professor Elaine McFarland.

I believe my grandmother's family were involved with the Orange Lodge.

-They certainly were.

-They were?

Your great-grandmother, Helen Orr Kennedy,

was very involved.

My grandmother was Helen too.

-They were both called Helen.

-Yes, they were both called Helen.

-There she is.

-I think she looks like me.

She has a wee, fat face.

This is the register of the Ladies Orange Lodge 52.

And that's their banner just behind you there.

Yes, I saw that, Brisby's Daughters of the Covenant.

And if you have a wee look...

The date at the top is March 1927 to March 1928.

Oh, there she is. Mrs Helen Kennedy.

This is the list of all the people in the Lodge.

She is the very first one, as you notice in the list.

-She's the top?

-She's the top dog.

What does WM stand for?

Worthy mistress.

So she ran the whole shebang?

She ran the shebang, yeah.

And there's 165 women.

Is that a lot of women?

It is a lot. That is quite a big Lodge.

The first Ladies Orange Lodges opened in Scotland in 1909.

They soon became a mass movement,

thanks to the opportunities they offered working-class women -

like Lulu's great-grandmother, Helen Orr Kennedy -

to socialise and play a bigger part in public life.

By the early 1930s, Scotland boasted more Orange women than men.

We can look a wee bit more closely at what she actually did

in this Lodge - this is the minute book.

You'll see that Helen is very much in the chair.

"16th March, 1922.

"Sister Kennedy, the WM, asked the visiting brethren

"to wait for a cup of tea. A dance followed

"which lasted until about two in the morning."

-So they had a good time.

-Yeah.

-It was very sociable.

Very. That was an important bit of the attraction.

It's that social dimension.

And she was pretty much running the show.

Yes. And this is the symbol of her authority.

This is of the period.

This is the gavel.

-Her gavel.

-"Order, order."

-Can I just have a go?

-Of course, yes.

-Order!

Let's have some order! She had a big loud voice, like me, probably.

I bet she did. I bet she did.

This is actually the Bible.

This represents the Bible,

because the Order saw itself

as grounded in scriptural principles.

But there's more here of what she's up to.

"Sister Kennedy asked for a large turnout of our members

"at church parades."

So these parades, what was Helen Kennedy's role?

-She would have led the parade.

-Got to be quite...fearless to do that.

Yeah, they would command the streets, with Helen...

-In the front?

-..leading the way, yeah.

She climbed up the hierarchy.

-She did!

-Let's just have a look at these.

This is the Grand Lodge of Scotland.

That was the governing body of the whole Orange Order.

So it says here,

"Minutes of ladies' conference, October meeting. 1929.

"Sister Mrs Kennedy, Worthy Grand Mistress, occupied the chair."

So, Worthy Grand Mistress.

-So she's the chair of the...?

-She's...

The head of the whole Lodge?

Top woman. She actually was the first to hold that position.

So she was a trailblazer.

Look, it says here. I've just jumped straight in to this thing

that says here, "The Grand Master,

"on being invited to take the chair

"returned the mallet of authority to Sister Mrs Kennedy, WGM,

"with the request that she should carry on.

"He further gave the ruling that at all future conferences

"the Worthy Grand Mistress conduct the business,

"as the Sisters were well qualified to undertake not only that duty,

"but any other duty in connection with their association."

Period, finished, the end.

The women's Lodge, although it was so successful,

had been subordinate to the male Lodge.

And the women's section meetings had always, until then,

been chaired by a man.

That was a really important moment.

-For women.

-Also for Helen.

The recognition of her standing, her personal standing.

This is a working-class woman, from the East End of Glasgow,

who has worked her way through the Lodge hierarchy

into this really responsible public position.

But how did my great-grandmother square away the issue

that she had such an important role in the Orange Lodge,

and her daughter was married to a Catholic jailbird?

It would have been a very difficult situation for her.

Now, this is the rules of the women's Orange Lodges of the time.

Looking at this,

you can get a flavour of the attitudes towards Catholicism.

"Should any member marry a Roman Catholic,

"she shall forthwith be expelled if,

"after fair trial, the offence has been proved."

That's how serious they treated marrying a Catholic.

It was one of the primary grounds for expulsion.

But, obviously, she carried enough weight with her colleagues

that it didn't derail her progress in the Order.

What eventually happened to her?

She continued to have a very prominent role in the Orange Order.

And she was involved right up to her death in 1943.

And she's buried in Rutherglen.

I would have loved to have met her.

Lulu wants to end her journey with

a visit to her great-grandmother's grave at Rutherglen Cemetery.

I am delighted

that my great-grandmother was a woman who was so strong.

I just like her. I would like to have known her.

She came from nothing. That's what's so amazing.

I come from nothing,

so I wouldn't put myself in the same position as her,

because I've been very lucky, you know.

I've had a lot of people help me when I was a young kid.

But I don't know who helped her.

I think she just did it all on her own.

And...

Yeah, that's given me some joy.

All the information I have found out about my grandmother Helen

and my grandfather Hugh is tough.

It's tough information.

I actually wonder what the relationship was like between

my great-grandmother and my grandmother -

two seemingly completely different people.

This is the index of graves, Rutherglen Cemetery.

If I jump to the bottom, my great-grandmother, Helen Kennedy,

71 years old.

Oh, wow. Helen Kennedy Cairns.

31 years.

That's my grandmother.

She's buried with her mother in the same grave.

My goodness.

Lulu's great-grandmother, Helen Orr Kennedy, died in 1943,

at the age of 71,

outliving her daughter, Lulu's grandmother,

Helen Kennedy Cairns, by eight years.

I've also got here a newspaper article, the Belfast Weekly News.

Scotch Orange Notes, Glasgow Bridgeton.

"The members of this Lodge held their annual meeting,

"the WM made sympathetic reference to the loss sustained by

"Sister Mrs Kennedy in the death of one of her daughters.

"In token of sympathy, one minute's silence was observed."

That's very generous, I think.

That no matter what the differences were about religion,

they acknowledged my grandmother's death.

The one sadness is that my mother didn't know

all the pieces that I know.

And she didn't really get to know her real family.

There she is.

"In loving memory of our Worthy Mistress, Helen Orr Kennedy,

"died 28th February, 1943.

"From the Sisters of the Ladies Loyal Orange Lodge 52."

Quite clearly, they were poor.

They didn't have money.

There's a lot of amazing gravestones here.

It looks like it's probably the smallest one.

When you think of my great-grandmother

and how she strived to be the very best she could be, and be strong,

and, you know, live a purposeful life.

And then you think of my poor grandmother, dying at the age of 31,

after having seven children, and a husband who was, really,

not the best choice.

The fact that they're buried in the same grave

does suggest that, despite all the troubles,

and the religious fighting that went on

between my grandmother and her husband,

and her own mother...

..there was a bond that wasn't broken.