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-Right, can you crack, into this bowl, three eggs? -OK. | 0:00:07 | 0:00:12 | |
Family is everything to me. | 0:00:12 | 0:00:15 | |
Look at that. That's fantastic. | 0:00:15 | 0:00:16 | |
Since becoming a parent, I base my whole life around family. | 0:00:17 | 0:00:21 | |
Honey, are you going to do some whisking, sweetie? | 0:00:21 | 0:00:23 | |
It's opened my eyes to that amazing circular motion of life. | 0:00:23 | 0:00:27 | |
Presenter Fearne Cotton began her career in children's television, | 0:00:29 | 0:00:33 | |
before becoming a household name with her Radio 1 show. | 0:00:33 | 0:00:36 | |
My parents definitely instilled a work ethic in me, | 0:00:38 | 0:00:41 | |
which has gone on to, you know, help me out massively | 0:00:41 | 0:00:45 | |
in, you know, how I view work and my career. | 0:00:45 | 0:00:48 | |
I've got this drive, and it's a burning drive inside, | 0:00:49 | 0:00:53 | |
and I know that comes from my ancestry. | 0:00:53 | 0:00:55 | |
That's not just something that I've got, | 0:00:55 | 0:00:57 | |
that comes from a whole heap of stuff behind me. | 0:00:57 | 0:01:00 | |
Today, as well as broadcasting, | 0:01:02 | 0:01:04 | |
Fearne writes books and looks after her two children | 0:01:04 | 0:01:07 | |
at their home in South West London. | 0:01:07 | 0:01:09 | |
My own upbringing, I guess, was... | 0:01:11 | 0:01:13 | |
Well, it was pretty normal to me. | 0:01:13 | 0:01:15 | |
Grew up thinking, | 0:01:15 | 0:01:17 | |
there's nothing very exotic or exciting about this. | 0:01:17 | 0:01:20 | |
So I think I'm actually looking forward | 0:01:20 | 0:01:22 | |
to looking into those other stories | 0:01:22 | 0:01:24 | |
and seeing if there was explosive dramas | 0:01:24 | 0:01:26 | |
or strange jobs, lots of travelling... | 0:01:26 | 0:01:29 | |
Mmm! | 0:01:29 | 0:01:30 | |
All that sort of stuff that I felt | 0:01:30 | 0:01:32 | |
wasn't really in my own childhood... | 0:01:32 | 0:01:34 | |
Oh, you've done a great job there, guys. | 0:01:34 | 0:01:36 | |
..and I think that will be a really wonderful gift | 0:01:36 | 0:01:38 | |
to give to my children, and, sort of, pass on. | 0:01:38 | 0:01:40 | |
I'm terrified! | 0:01:41 | 0:01:43 | |
So excited - but I'm so nervous! | 0:01:44 | 0:01:46 | |
Fearne is on her way to visit her parents, Mick and Linda, | 0:02:24 | 0:02:28 | |
at their home in Buckinghamshire. | 0:02:28 | 0:02:29 | |
I think I'm an even split of both parents. | 0:02:31 | 0:02:33 | |
I've got my mum's tenacity and drive and fire... | 0:02:33 | 0:02:38 | |
..but then, weirdly, I've got my dad's side, | 0:02:40 | 0:02:43 | |
which is very calm and grounded, and I'm kind of a weird mix of both, | 0:02:43 | 0:02:48 | |
depending on what I'm dealing with in life. | 0:02:48 | 0:02:52 | |
Hello, guys! | 0:02:52 | 0:02:53 | |
-Hello, what are you doing here, then?! -Mwah! | 0:02:53 | 0:02:56 | |
-Daddy. -Hi, Fearney. | 0:02:56 | 0:02:57 | |
Let's head in. | 0:02:59 | 0:03:00 | |
So, I wanted to have a chat with you about something | 0:03:06 | 0:03:08 | |
that's quite obvious, but I've never bothered asking you, really, | 0:03:08 | 0:03:11 | |
and that's about your parents, my grandparents... | 0:03:11 | 0:03:14 | |
Cos you don't really ever have those chats, do you? | 0:03:14 | 0:03:17 | |
-We're kind of just going about our everyday business and... -Mm-hm. | 0:03:17 | 0:03:20 | |
-It's a good thing to do. -I think so. | 0:03:20 | 0:03:21 | |
Because I wish I'd quizzed my grandparents and parents more | 0:03:21 | 0:03:25 | |
-when they were alive. -I know. | 0:03:25 | 0:03:26 | |
So catch us while we're still here. | 0:03:26 | 0:03:28 | |
So, here's lovely Sylvia and Phil. | 0:03:30 | 0:03:33 | |
And... I mean, my memories of... | 0:03:33 | 0:03:35 | |
I mean, especially your dad - | 0:03:35 | 0:03:38 | |
-I mean, he was hilarious and crazy, wasn't he? -Mm. | 0:03:38 | 0:03:42 | |
He would've loved nothing better than sat at a table | 0:03:42 | 0:03:45 | |
with about half a dozen kids, eating blancmange and jelly... | 0:03:45 | 0:03:48 | |
-Yeah, yeah! -..and wearing a paper hat... | 0:03:48 | 0:03:50 | |
-Yeah, I remember. -..and just being ridiculous, yeah. | 0:03:50 | 0:03:52 | |
He was such a funny man, wasn't it? | 0:03:52 | 0:03:54 | |
-Yeah, he was great, actually. -I do miss him, he was amazing. | 0:03:54 | 0:03:56 | |
That's a lovely picture, that. | 0:03:56 | 0:03:58 | |
What about Nan Sylvia's parents? | 0:03:58 | 0:04:00 | |
Were they all London based? | 0:04:00 | 0:04:02 | |
They were originated from Suffolk and Norfolk. | 0:04:02 | 0:04:05 | |
-OK, I didn't know that. -Yeah. | 0:04:05 | 0:04:07 | |
Now, do I remember correctly, or have I made this up, | 0:04:07 | 0:04:09 | |
that there's...because of a surname ending in BY, what would that be? | 0:04:09 | 0:04:14 | |
Apparently - this is only sort of hearsay... | 0:04:14 | 0:04:18 | |
-Yeah. -..if your surname ended in BY, as theirs did, Wilby... | 0:04:18 | 0:04:23 | |
-Wilby, that's it. -Wilby. | 0:04:23 | 0:04:25 | |
-I think BY is Norse for Viking settlement. -OK. | 0:04:25 | 0:04:32 | |
And then lovely Nan Ruby. | 0:04:32 | 0:04:34 | |
So, Nan Ruby, your mum and dad. | 0:04:34 | 0:04:36 | |
Obviously just come back from a holiday, by the look of it. | 0:04:36 | 0:04:38 | |
Always. That's one of the things I remember about your mum is... | 0:04:38 | 0:04:41 | |
Yeah, always on holiday. | 0:04:41 | 0:04:42 | |
-Always... -I think she had a hotline to Lunn Poly! | 0:04:42 | 0:04:45 | |
She used to ring them and say, "What's...? | 0:04:45 | 0:04:47 | |
"Have you got any last-minute cancellations?" | 0:04:47 | 0:04:49 | |
-I know! -And they'd go away the next day. | 0:04:49 | 0:04:51 | |
What I know, I guess, about Nan, your mum, | 0:04:51 | 0:04:54 | |
is that she was born in Wales. | 0:04:54 | 0:04:56 | |
Yeah - and if we look at the birth certificate, | 0:04:56 | 0:04:59 | |
you can see exactly where she was born. | 0:04:59 | 0:05:01 | |
She was born in 1922, Evelyn Street, Abertillery. | 0:05:01 | 0:05:06 | |
-Yeah. -That's in South Wales... -South Wales, yeah. | 0:05:06 | 0:05:10 | |
-..and then her dad, Evan Meredith... -Mm-hm. | 0:05:10 | 0:05:14 | |
..and then her mum, Elsie Meredith - | 0:05:14 | 0:05:17 | |
and that's so strange to read, because I didn't know their names, | 0:05:17 | 0:05:19 | |
and I never got to meet Evan Meredith, | 0:05:19 | 0:05:22 | |
because he died quite a long time before I was born. | 0:05:22 | 0:05:24 | |
'72, yeah. | 0:05:24 | 0:05:26 | |
Yeah, so sort of nine years before I was born. | 0:05:26 | 0:05:29 | |
-What does that say? -Coal hewer. | 0:05:29 | 0:05:30 | |
So that was that whole area... | 0:05:30 | 0:05:32 | |
-It's coal-mining, basically, yeah. -..was a coal-mining area. | 0:05:32 | 0:05:34 | |
What do you remember about your grandad? | 0:05:34 | 0:05:36 | |
Well, he always had his face in a book. | 0:05:36 | 0:05:39 | |
He'd had his own chemist shop, opticians. | 0:05:39 | 0:05:42 | |
He developed into, you know, a very clever, intelligent man - | 0:05:42 | 0:05:46 | |
having come from a coal miner. | 0:05:46 | 0:05:48 | |
-Yeah. Have you got any pictures of Evan? -Yes, yes. | 0:05:48 | 0:05:51 | |
There's a very interesting one there. | 0:05:51 | 0:05:53 | |
Oh, wow. | 0:05:53 | 0:05:55 | |
Look how smart he is in that uniform. | 0:05:55 | 0:05:57 | |
Over 100 years ago. | 0:05:57 | 0:05:58 | |
Goodness me, so... This is 1913. | 0:05:58 | 0:06:02 | |
It says, "Dad, St John's ambulance". | 0:06:02 | 0:06:04 | |
Wow. So he was... | 0:06:04 | 0:06:06 | |
How old, here, does that make him? | 0:06:06 | 0:06:08 | |
'13... I think he was born '95, 1895, so 18ish? | 0:06:08 | 0:06:14 | |
And I can see, look, cos I've never seen a picture of him in my life, | 0:06:14 | 0:06:17 | |
but there's the family resemblance. | 0:06:17 | 0:06:19 | |
-You can kind of see the nose... -Not so much. | 0:06:19 | 0:06:21 | |
-I can see it. -Mm. | 0:06:21 | 0:06:23 | |
-Definitely. -Maybe. -I can see Nan. | 0:06:23 | 0:06:26 | |
-Mm. -100% Nan Ruby. | 0:06:26 | 0:06:27 | |
-Mm. -Yeah, without a doubt. -Yeah. | 0:06:27 | 0:06:29 | |
-Yeah, maybe. -Like, the nose and the mouth, the chin... | 0:06:29 | 0:06:32 | |
..and so, if this was in 1913, and he was already putting himself | 0:06:33 | 0:06:37 | |
-to great use, do you know what he did in the war? -Not really. | 0:06:37 | 0:06:42 | |
Never said, he never spoken about... | 0:06:43 | 0:06:46 | |
not by my mum, or certainly by Grandad Evan. | 0:06:46 | 0:06:49 | |
He wasn't around, I know that much, | 0:06:49 | 0:06:52 | |
but what he did or where he was, I've actually got no idea. | 0:06:52 | 0:06:56 | |
-Well, that would be really interesting to find out... -Mm. | 0:06:56 | 0:06:58 | |
-..I think, wouldn't it? -Yes. | 0:06:58 | 0:07:00 | |
-Do a bit more delving around Evan's story. -Yes. | 0:07:00 | 0:07:02 | |
Fearne has discovered that before becoming a chemist, | 0:07:06 | 0:07:08 | |
her paternal grandmother Ruby's father, Evan Meredith, | 0:07:08 | 0:07:12 | |
was a coal miner from South Wales. | 0:07:12 | 0:07:14 | |
To find out more about Evan, | 0:07:22 | 0:07:24 | |
Fearne has come to Abertillery to meet mining historian Ben Curtis. | 0:07:24 | 0:07:28 | |
-Hi, Ben. -Hi, Fearne. | 0:07:30 | 0:07:31 | |
Welcome to Abertillery. | 0:07:31 | 0:07:32 | |
-Thank you. How are you doing? -Yeah, good, thanks. Lovely. | 0:07:32 | 0:07:35 | |
What a lovely view of the Valleys. | 0:07:35 | 0:07:36 | |
Land of my forefathers - and more specifically my great-grandfather, | 0:07:36 | 0:07:41 | |
Evan Meredith. Am I saying Meredith right? | 0:07:41 | 0:07:43 | |
I would say Mer-EDD-ith rather than MEH-redith, but, yeah... | 0:07:43 | 0:07:46 | |
Evan Mer-EDD-ith. | 0:07:46 | 0:07:47 | |
-Erm, who I know worked down the mines. -Yes. | 0:07:47 | 0:07:50 | |
I don't see any mines here now, though. | 0:07:50 | 0:07:53 | |
No, no. There aren't any. | 0:07:53 | 0:07:55 | |
I mean, the last mine closed 30 years ago now - | 0:07:55 | 0:07:57 | |
but in the early 20th century | 0:07:57 | 0:07:59 | |
when Evan Meredith was living and working here, | 0:07:59 | 0:08:03 | |
it was an absolute hive of industry. | 0:08:03 | 0:08:05 | |
Six Bells Colliery, which is where Evan worked, | 0:08:05 | 0:08:09 | |
a bit further down the valley, | 0:08:09 | 0:08:10 | |
just under 3,000 men and boys in 1913 working there, | 0:08:10 | 0:08:14 | |
producing something like just over three quarters of a million tonnes | 0:08:14 | 0:08:17 | |
of coal a year at that time. | 0:08:17 | 0:08:18 | |
It's a tough life, isn't it, for a kid? | 0:08:18 | 0:08:20 | |
-Very tough, very dangerous work for, kind of, anyone, yeah. -Wow. | 0:08:20 | 0:08:24 | |
Like most boys in the area, | 0:08:26 | 0:08:28 | |
Evan went to work down the mines aged 13 after leaving school. | 0:08:28 | 0:08:33 | |
It was physically hard work that risked serious injury | 0:08:33 | 0:08:36 | |
and even death... | 0:08:36 | 0:08:38 | |
..but there was a strong sense of solidarity | 0:08:40 | 0:08:42 | |
in mining towns like Abertillery. | 0:08:42 | 0:08:45 | |
Although the pits have gone, | 0:08:46 | 0:08:48 | |
Fearne and Ben are visiting one of the last surviving reminders | 0:08:48 | 0:08:51 | |
of that community spirit. | 0:08:51 | 0:08:54 | |
OK, so here we are, Fearne, Llanhilleth Miners Institute. | 0:08:54 | 0:08:57 | |
It's a lovely building. | 0:08:58 | 0:08:59 | |
So, what year would this have been built? | 0:08:59 | 0:09:02 | |
-1906. -So it's sort of quite likely that Evan would have known | 0:09:02 | 0:09:05 | |
about this building, maybe even visited it? | 0:09:05 | 0:09:07 | |
Yeah, it's entirely likely he would've done. | 0:09:07 | 0:09:09 | |
It's a lovely thought. | 0:09:09 | 0:09:11 | |
-Thank you, Ben. -No problem. | 0:09:15 | 0:09:16 | |
This is the lovely picture that my dad gave me | 0:09:20 | 0:09:22 | |
of my great-grandfather, Evan. | 0:09:22 | 0:09:25 | |
Which is 1913, so just shortly before World War I. | 0:09:25 | 0:09:32 | |
How would Evan's life have changed once the war begun? | 0:09:32 | 0:09:35 | |
This is a period when cutting coal | 0:09:35 | 0:09:37 | |
is an essential part of the war effort, | 0:09:37 | 0:09:40 | |
and mining was deemed a reserved occupation, | 0:09:40 | 0:09:43 | |
-so for most of the war, he would've been... -Carrying on. | 0:09:43 | 0:09:45 | |
..the work, the essential war effort, down the pits. | 0:09:45 | 0:09:48 | |
The situation does change slightly towards the end of the war, | 0:09:48 | 0:09:52 | |
with the need for even more men to be called up to go and fight, | 0:09:52 | 0:09:55 | |
and that does necessitate a change of government policy | 0:09:55 | 0:09:58 | |
with regards to the reserved occupations - | 0:09:58 | 0:10:00 | |
and if you have a look at this document... | 0:10:00 | 0:10:02 | |
-OK. -..this gives you a sense of what this means for South Wales. | 0:10:02 | 0:10:06 | |
So, this says "Miners & Comb-Out". | 0:10:06 | 0:10:10 | |
"A conference of delegates representing the whole of the miners | 0:10:10 | 0:10:14 | |
"of South Wales and Monmouthshire were held at the Cory Hall, Cardiff, | 0:10:14 | 0:10:18 | |
"on Thursday, to consider the comb-out scheme, by which it is..." | 0:10:18 | 0:10:23 | |
-Proposed. -"..proposed to take 50,000 single men from the collieries | 0:10:23 | 0:10:27 | |
"of the country, the quota of South Wales being 10,000, | 0:10:27 | 0:10:31 | |
"or 5% of the workmen, for the Army." | 0:10:31 | 0:10:34 | |
So, it says several times here, "comb-out". What's that? | 0:10:34 | 0:10:37 | |
It's a selective process, | 0:10:37 | 0:10:39 | |
whereby those who are deemed to best fit the criteria | 0:10:39 | 0:10:42 | |
are taken from the industry, | 0:10:42 | 0:10:44 | |
selected, "combed out", and sent off, | 0:10:44 | 0:10:47 | |
called up to go and fight. | 0:10:47 | 0:10:48 | |
So, I mean, my gut's saying that he probably ended up going to war. | 0:10:50 | 0:10:54 | |
If you have a look there... | 0:10:54 | 0:10:56 | |
And this is July the 6th, 1918. | 0:10:56 | 0:11:00 | |
"Two conscientious objectors, WN Hulin, Abertillery, | 0:11:00 | 0:11:07 | |
"and Evan Meredith, Six Bells, | 0:11:07 | 0:11:10 | |
"were on Thursday at Abercarn Police-court | 0:11:10 | 0:11:15 | |
"charged as absentees from the Army | 0:11:15 | 0:11:18 | |
"and handed over to a military escort. | 0:11:18 | 0:11:22 | |
"No fine was inflicted. | 0:11:22 | 0:11:23 | |
"They were removed to Brecon Barracks next day." | 0:11:23 | 0:11:27 | |
Right. | 0:11:29 | 0:11:31 | |
So does that mean they would've been called up to the Army | 0:11:31 | 0:11:34 | |
but refused, and then were, essentially, arrested? | 0:11:34 | 0:11:38 | |
Yes. | 0:11:38 | 0:11:39 | |
When conscription was introduced in 1916, | 0:11:40 | 0:11:44 | |
men who refused to fight were known as conscientious objectors. | 0:11:44 | 0:11:48 | |
Some objected to killing on religious grounds. | 0:11:49 | 0:11:52 | |
Others opposed the war for political reasons. | 0:11:52 | 0:11:54 | |
Whatever their beliefs, they faced hostile public demonstrations, | 0:11:55 | 0:12:00 | |
the threat of imprisonment, and ridicule. | 0:12:00 | 0:12:03 | |
Despite this, more than 16,000 men refused to join up and fight, | 0:12:04 | 0:12:09 | |
including Evan Meredith. | 0:12:09 | 0:12:11 | |
It's quite rebellious - but maybe he had a good reason. | 0:12:12 | 0:12:15 | |
Yeah, this is 1918, this is getting towards the end of the war. | 0:12:15 | 0:12:18 | |
I mean, the scale of slaughter really, on the Western front - | 0:12:18 | 0:12:22 | |
-people know that it's been an absolute kind of slaughter. -Yeah. | 0:12:22 | 0:12:24 | |
I mean, what a... | 0:12:24 | 0:12:27 | |
awful decision to have to make. | 0:12:27 | 0:12:29 | |
God. | 0:12:29 | 0:12:30 | |
I guess I'm quite shocked | 0:12:40 | 0:12:42 | |
to hear about Evan's refusal to join the Army. | 0:12:42 | 0:12:46 | |
I doubt that it's just sort of a simple act of rebellion, | 0:12:46 | 0:12:49 | |
so I really want to try and understand more | 0:12:49 | 0:12:52 | |
about his decision-making | 0:12:52 | 0:12:54 | |
and the impact that had on Evan and the family - | 0:12:54 | 0:12:57 | |
and I also want to find out what happened to him next. | 0:12:57 | 0:12:59 | |
Fearne is meeting Welsh historian Aled Eirug at Brecon Barracks. | 0:13:02 | 0:13:06 | |
I was quite shocked today, finding out that my great-grandfather, Evan, | 0:13:08 | 0:13:12 | |
refused to join the army. | 0:13:12 | 0:13:14 | |
I know from this document here that he was arrested | 0:13:14 | 0:13:18 | |
and then he was brought with another objector here to the barracks... | 0:13:18 | 0:13:22 | |
That's right, yes. | 0:13:22 | 0:13:24 | |
So, what sort of thing would happen once you arrived at the barracks? | 0:13:24 | 0:13:27 | |
They'd tried to persuade him to put on a uniform, | 0:13:27 | 0:13:31 | |
to conform to regulations, which he refused - | 0:13:31 | 0:13:34 | |
-and if you look down the list, his name is there. -Yes, Meredith. | 0:13:34 | 0:13:40 | |
-Yeah. -Does that say six...? | 0:13:40 | 0:13:43 | |
-Six months. -Six months? | 0:13:43 | 0:13:45 | |
-That's a long time. -So he would've been sentenced on this day, | 0:13:45 | 0:13:51 | |
and then the following day | 0:13:51 | 0:13:53 | |
he would've been taken to a civil prison. | 0:13:53 | 0:13:56 | |
-Where would he have gone? -Well, we have this document here, | 0:13:56 | 0:14:00 | |
-if you have a look. -This is August 1918. | 0:14:00 | 0:14:03 | |
-Yeah. -"The following cases were decided at Wormwood." | 0:14:03 | 0:14:06 | |
-Wormwood Scrubs prison? -Yes, yes. -In London? | 0:14:06 | 0:14:09 | |
That's right. So that's where he goes next, and... | 0:14:09 | 0:14:12 | |
That's quite a long way to go, from South Wales. | 0:14:12 | 0:14:15 | |
-He does get a lift. -Goodness me! | 0:14:15 | 0:14:18 | |
But if you go down the list, you can see his name there. | 0:14:18 | 0:14:22 | |
-OK. So, 5298 Evan Meredith. -Yeah. | 0:14:22 | 0:14:26 | |
So, the interesting thing about this is, they give him a Category B. | 0:14:26 | 0:14:31 | |
Category A was where they thought the person opposed the war | 0:14:32 | 0:14:35 | |
-on religious basis. -OK. | 0:14:35 | 0:14:37 | |
B suggests that Evan was seen as somebody who opposed the war | 0:14:37 | 0:14:42 | |
on political grounds, which they didn't like, | 0:14:42 | 0:14:45 | |
in that people argued that it was a capitalist war | 0:14:45 | 0:14:48 | |
between imperialist powers, | 0:14:48 | 0:14:50 | |
that it had nothing to do with the working classes. | 0:14:50 | 0:14:53 | |
Men like Evan didn't accept why they should be fighting. | 0:14:55 | 0:14:58 | |
They didn't see ordinary German soldiers as their enemy. | 0:14:58 | 0:15:02 | |
They saw the war as reinforcing the inequalities | 0:15:02 | 0:15:05 | |
they believed society should be getting rid of. | 0:15:05 | 0:15:08 | |
I'm guessing now, from what you've said, | 0:15:10 | 0:15:12 | |
he had such strong political beliefs | 0:15:12 | 0:15:14 | |
that, you know, it was worth doing six months' time | 0:15:14 | 0:15:17 | |
rather than going against his wishes. | 0:15:17 | 0:15:19 | |
-Well... -Gosh. | 0:15:19 | 0:15:21 | |
But still, I'm sure the majority of people of Abertillery | 0:15:21 | 0:15:25 | |
would've been very, very upset | 0:15:25 | 0:15:27 | |
by the fact that he wasn't going to go to war, | 0:15:27 | 0:15:29 | |
especially in a period when, you know, | 0:15:29 | 0:15:32 | |
-families had lost their own loved ones... -Yeah. | 0:15:32 | 0:15:34 | |
-It's difficult to imagine how... -It is. | 0:15:34 | 0:15:37 | |
-What an awful decision to have to make, as well. -Absolutely. | 0:15:37 | 0:15:39 | |
So, he was in Wormwood Scrubs for six months | 0:15:39 | 0:15:42 | |
-and then... -That's right. -..after that allotted time, | 0:15:42 | 0:15:44 | |
would he have been sent back to South Wales? | 0:15:44 | 0:15:46 | |
He would've been released from Wormwood Scrubs in December 1918, | 0:15:46 | 0:15:52 | |
the end of the six months, but then, once he walked out of prison, | 0:15:52 | 0:15:56 | |
there would be soldiers there from the Welsh Regiment to rearrest him, | 0:15:56 | 0:16:04 | |
-take him back to Wales for another court martial. -Oh, my goodness. | 0:16:04 | 0:16:09 | |
It was like a catch 22 - you couldn't get out of it. | 0:16:09 | 0:16:12 | |
If you have a look here... | 0:16:12 | 0:16:14 | |
So, the 9th of May 1919 - so, by now, the First World War is done, | 0:16:14 | 0:16:20 | |
-it's over... -Absolutely. | 0:16:20 | 0:16:21 | |
..but he's still got to serve his time, | 0:16:21 | 0:16:24 | |
so, "Men still in the hands of the military and civil authorities..." | 0:16:24 | 0:16:27 | |
-There we are. -Meredith, Abertillery... | 0:16:29 | 0:16:33 | |
and then it says Carmarthen. | 0:16:33 | 0:16:35 | |
What's that about, then? | 0:16:35 | 0:16:37 | |
-Well, Carmarthen in West Wales... -Yeah. | 0:16:37 | 0:16:40 | |
..is - or was - a garrison town. | 0:16:40 | 0:16:43 | |
It had its own local prison. | 0:16:43 | 0:16:45 | |
Wow. It kind of makes no sense, cos you want him, really, | 0:16:45 | 0:16:48 | |
to get back to work and keep that mining community alive | 0:16:48 | 0:16:51 | |
and put him to good use - but they were more adamant | 0:16:51 | 0:16:54 | |
on just keeping him in there for the punishment. | 0:16:54 | 0:16:56 | |
That was a very controversial issue at the time, | 0:16:56 | 0:16:59 | |
and there were lots of protests from public figures | 0:16:59 | 0:17:03 | |
about the treatment given to conscientious objectors - | 0:17:03 | 0:17:07 | |
but Evan ended up right in the middle of that row. | 0:17:07 | 0:17:10 | |
Yeah. Gosh. | 0:17:10 | 0:17:11 | |
I didn't know anyone from my family had ever been in prison. | 0:17:11 | 0:17:16 | |
What a revelation! | 0:17:16 | 0:17:18 | |
I feel slightly confused and, I guess, in conflict | 0:17:24 | 0:17:27 | |
about the information I've just learned. | 0:17:27 | 0:17:31 | |
On one hand, I massively admire Evan's courage | 0:17:31 | 0:17:35 | |
and his strong willed ways, | 0:17:35 | 0:17:38 | |
the fact that he vehemently stuck to his moral reasons | 0:17:38 | 0:17:43 | |
as to why he didn't want to go to war, | 0:17:43 | 0:17:45 | |
even though he had these severe consequences, | 0:17:45 | 0:17:48 | |
he still stuck by that and I really admire that, | 0:17:48 | 0:17:50 | |
but then, on the other hand, there's so many families | 0:17:50 | 0:17:52 | |
that obviously lost relatives at war in the same area | 0:17:52 | 0:17:56 | |
and that's unbelievably heartbreaking. | 0:17:56 | 0:17:58 | |
So it's really hard to sort of digest it all | 0:17:58 | 0:18:02 | |
and work out how I feel. | 0:18:02 | 0:18:03 | |
Fearne has come to Carmarthen to find out Evan's fate | 0:18:09 | 0:18:13 | |
following his second court-martial. | 0:18:13 | 0:18:15 | |
She is meeting historian Professor Lois Bibbings. | 0:18:15 | 0:18:18 | |
Thank you, Lois. | 0:18:18 | 0:18:19 | |
What I know is that my great-grandfather Evan | 0:18:21 | 0:18:24 | |
was brought here to Carmarthen to serve his second sentence | 0:18:24 | 0:18:27 | |
for being an objector. | 0:18:27 | 0:18:29 | |
Do you know how long he would've been here? | 0:18:29 | 0:18:31 | |
Well, this is one of the original papers from Carmarthen prison. | 0:18:31 | 0:18:37 | |
OK. So, Evan Meredith, 14th of December 1918... | 0:18:37 | 0:18:44 | |
What's that date in reference to? | 0:18:44 | 0:18:46 | |
That looks like the date on which he was court-martialled and sentenced. | 0:18:46 | 0:18:49 | |
So this here says, "Disobeying a lawful command". | 0:18:49 | 0:18:52 | |
-Yes. -So what would that have been? | 0:18:52 | 0:18:54 | |
So, yeah, something like not putting on a uniform, most probably. | 0:18:54 | 0:18:57 | |
Something fairly mundane. | 0:18:57 | 0:18:59 | |
One-year sentence. | 0:18:59 | 0:19:01 | |
Yes, so his six months has now become a second sentence, | 0:19:01 | 0:19:04 | |
one year and hard labour. | 0:19:04 | 0:19:06 | |
Oh, my goodness. | 0:19:06 | 0:19:08 | |
Prison regime at that time, as you might imagine, was fairly strict. | 0:19:08 | 0:19:12 | |
There'd be a single plank for him to sleep on. | 0:19:12 | 0:19:14 | |
For the first two weeks of his sentence, | 0:19:14 | 0:19:16 | |
he'd be lying on the plank with no mattress. | 0:19:16 | 0:19:18 | |
After two weeks he would have earned the right to a mattress. | 0:19:18 | 0:19:22 | |
He'd have a stool, | 0:19:22 | 0:19:23 | |
a small table and a few pots for drinking and... | 0:19:23 | 0:19:28 | |
-doing other things in. -Got you. Got you, Lois. -Mm-hm! | 0:19:28 | 0:19:31 | |
Um, and he would be adhering to the silence rule, | 0:19:31 | 0:19:35 | |
-so he wasn't allowed to communicate with other prisoners. -Oh, my God. | 0:19:35 | 0:19:39 | |
He wasn't allowed to speak - | 0:19:39 | 0:19:41 | |
and that's what objectors found really the most hard. | 0:19:41 | 0:19:43 | |
So isolating. | 0:19:43 | 0:19:45 | |
-It's horrible. -But prisoners, if they behaved well, | 0:19:45 | 0:19:49 | |
were automatically entitled to one sixth remission of sentence, | 0:19:49 | 0:19:52 | |
so two months off, effectively. | 0:19:52 | 0:19:54 | |
Oh, right. Do you know if Evan did behave well and he got out early? | 0:19:54 | 0:19:57 | |
Well, if you have a look at the next column... | 0:19:57 | 0:20:00 | |
So, it says "Remarks", | 0:20:00 | 0:20:01 | |
and Evan's got quite a lengthy section in there. | 0:20:01 | 0:20:04 | |
I guess the really important date to look at is the temporary discharge, | 0:20:04 | 0:20:08 | |
and to wonder why he was discharged at that point, | 0:20:08 | 0:20:11 | |
because it doesn't match either the end of his sentence | 0:20:11 | 0:20:14 | |
or the usual remission period. | 0:20:14 | 0:20:15 | |
Yeah, it's quite a way before both - so do you know why? | 0:20:15 | 0:20:18 | |
Well, we do have a little bit more information on Evan's case. | 0:20:18 | 0:20:22 | |
We are very lucky to have located a history of the Meredith family. | 0:20:22 | 0:20:26 | |
Chapter three of that history is written by Evan, | 0:20:26 | 0:20:29 | |
and it records what happened to him in prison in the First World War. | 0:20:29 | 0:20:33 | |
Wow. | 0:20:33 | 0:20:34 | |
"We had heard of hunger strikes in various parts of the country | 0:20:36 | 0:20:40 | |
"and some of them are beginning to think in these terms. | 0:20:40 | 0:20:43 | |
"Not only that, I was in the best position to organise such a move." | 0:20:43 | 0:20:48 | |
So I'm trying to get my head around this! | 0:20:48 | 0:20:50 | |
So, he was basically the person who started a hunger strike here | 0:20:50 | 0:20:56 | |
for a group of prisoners. | 0:20:56 | 0:20:58 | |
-Am I right? -Pretty much. | 0:20:58 | 0:20:59 | |
There have been hunger strikes in some of the prisons | 0:20:59 | 0:21:02 | |
around the country from 1918 or onwards, | 0:21:02 | 0:21:05 | |
and they were largely about the conditions | 0:21:05 | 0:21:07 | |
in which the prisoners were being held. | 0:21:07 | 0:21:09 | |
By this time, post the Armistice, | 0:21:09 | 0:21:11 | |
they tended to be about release dates. | 0:21:11 | 0:21:14 | |
"By careful contact, | 0:21:14 | 0:21:16 | |
"I discovered that everyone was ready and waiting | 0:21:16 | 0:21:19 | |
"for me to fix the day. | 0:21:19 | 0:21:20 | |
"This I did on a day one week ahead, | 0:21:20 | 0:21:22 | |
"so that I would be sure of contacting each man | 0:21:22 | 0:21:25 | |
"individually beforehand. | 0:21:25 | 0:21:26 | |
"The appointed day arrived | 0:21:26 | 0:21:28 | |
"and every breakfast was returned to the kitchen..." Wow. | 0:21:28 | 0:21:31 | |
"..including my own. | 0:21:31 | 0:21:33 | |
"On the fourth day, the governor called in the evening | 0:21:33 | 0:21:36 | |
"to bring the news that I was to be released the next morning | 0:21:36 | 0:21:40 | |
"under the Cat And Mouse Act." | 0:21:40 | 0:21:42 | |
The Cat And Mouse Act had been introduced in 1913. | 0:21:43 | 0:21:48 | |
Officially known as the Prisoners (Temporary Discharge For Ill Health) Act, | 0:21:48 | 0:21:52 | |
the Government had passed it | 0:21:52 | 0:21:54 | |
to tackle the hunger strike protests by suffragettes held in prison. | 0:21:54 | 0:21:57 | |
Instead of force-feeding them, | 0:21:59 | 0:22:01 | |
the act allowed the early release of weakened prisoners | 0:22:01 | 0:22:04 | |
who might be at risk of dying, and their rearrest | 0:22:04 | 0:22:07 | |
once they had recovered. | 0:22:07 | 0:22:09 | |
So, when conscientious objectors like Evan began their hunger strikes | 0:22:09 | 0:22:13 | |
in 1918, they were treated the same way. | 0:22:13 | 0:22:17 | |
Do you know if he was then rearrested | 0:22:18 | 0:22:20 | |
-after that temporary time of discharge? -We don't for sure, | 0:22:20 | 0:22:24 | |
but we don't have any evidence that he was picked up again. | 0:22:24 | 0:22:27 | |
I'll happily read through all of this. Thank you so much. | 0:22:27 | 0:22:31 | |
I mean, what is clear to me already is... | 0:22:40 | 0:22:42 | |
..which I didn't factually know... | 0:22:44 | 0:22:47 | |
is that he didn't want to go to war | 0:22:47 | 0:22:50 | |
because he didn't want to kill anyone. | 0:22:50 | 0:22:52 | |
It's that simple, really. | 0:22:56 | 0:22:58 | |
I'm really getting a picture of who he was. | 0:23:01 | 0:23:04 | |
You know, it's not necessarily jobs, | 0:23:04 | 0:23:06 | |
location that you continue in that lineage, | 0:23:06 | 0:23:09 | |
it's all of those traits and all those beliefs, | 0:23:09 | 0:23:13 | |
and they filter through in their own way, | 0:23:13 | 0:23:15 | |
so it's really, really special to read his words. | 0:23:15 | 0:23:19 | |
Fearne has one final visit to make to piece together Evan's life. | 0:23:30 | 0:23:35 | |
Evan's son, my great uncle Hayden, is still alive, and he's in his 90s, | 0:23:35 | 0:23:41 | |
and he's incredibly with it, | 0:23:41 | 0:23:43 | |
so it'd be really interesting to see what Hayden, you know, | 0:23:43 | 0:23:48 | |
makes of all this, and I guess how that impacted him as a son. | 0:23:48 | 0:23:53 | |
No! I don't believe it! | 0:23:57 | 0:24:01 | |
Liquid sunshine. Hello, there. | 0:24:01 | 0:24:04 | |
Liquid sunshine. | 0:24:04 | 0:24:06 | |
-So lovely to see you. -And you. | 0:24:06 | 0:24:08 | |
I haven't been here for so long - | 0:24:08 | 0:24:10 | |
I must have been, I don't know, 12 or something last time I was here. | 0:24:10 | 0:24:14 | |
Yes, well... | 0:24:14 | 0:24:15 | |
I knew so little about Evan | 0:24:15 | 0:24:18 | |
before I, sort of, started on this exploration, | 0:24:18 | 0:24:22 | |
and I've learned that he was a conscientious objector... | 0:24:22 | 0:24:25 | |
-Yes, yes. -And that he refused to go to war. | 0:24:25 | 0:24:27 | |
Did he ever talk about his time in prison? | 0:24:27 | 0:24:29 | |
Or was it just a no-go subject? | 0:24:29 | 0:24:31 | |
-No-go subject. -Yeah. -Never touched it. -Mm-hm. | 0:24:31 | 0:24:35 | |
-Never touched it. -Do you think that was because it was just too painful | 0:24:35 | 0:24:38 | |
-of a memory for him? -Oh, yes, I think it... | 0:24:38 | 0:24:40 | |
-Yeah. -..it was looked upon with disdain. -Hmm. | 0:24:40 | 0:24:45 | |
But, of course, some of them out on the Western Front were shot.... | 0:24:45 | 0:24:48 | |
-Yeah. -For... For disobedience. | 0:24:48 | 0:24:50 | |
-Yeah. -But, hopefully, there's a place in heaven... | 0:24:50 | 0:24:55 | |
-..where they don't judge in this way. -No. | 0:24:57 | 0:25:00 | |
I guess there is, then, a bit of a gap that I need to fill, | 0:25:00 | 0:25:04 | |
-between him going back into the mining community... -Yes. | 0:25:04 | 0:25:08 | |
And then him arriving as a real pillar of the community... | 0:25:08 | 0:25:12 | |
-Yeah. -..out of Wales, in Kingsbury, and how that happened. | 0:25:12 | 0:25:17 | |
Yeah. He didn't talk to me about South Wales generally. | 0:25:17 | 0:25:21 | |
I used to love to go to Abertillery, because if you've been there, | 0:25:21 | 0:25:26 | |
there were these beautiful mountains. | 0:25:26 | 0:25:28 | |
-Yeah. -It was such a wonderful place... | 0:25:28 | 0:25:32 | |
-Mm. -..and out of the blue, my father said, | 0:25:32 | 0:25:36 | |
-"I worked damned hard to get out of that place." -Yeah! | 0:25:36 | 0:25:39 | |
He did it by digging himself out of the pit. | 0:25:39 | 0:25:42 | |
Yeah, quite literally. | 0:25:42 | 0:25:44 | |
-Look at it that way. -Yeah. | 0:25:44 | 0:25:45 | |
He dug himself out of the pit into pharmacy, | 0:25:45 | 0:25:48 | |
-and eventually into a chemist's shop. -Wow. | 0:25:48 | 0:25:51 | |
I can remember him answering the phone, "Meredith the chemist", | 0:25:51 | 0:25:55 | |
he used to say. In a Welsh accent, "Meredith the chemist", | 0:25:55 | 0:25:58 | |
and, um, really, that was how it... | 0:25:58 | 0:26:02 | |
how it came about, because he was learning, learning, learning... | 0:26:02 | 0:26:08 | |
-He was very, very studious and driven? -Absolutely - | 0:26:08 | 0:26:11 | |
and towards the final stages of his career as a pharmacist, | 0:26:11 | 0:26:16 | |
he was given a fellowship of the Pharmaceutical Society, | 0:26:16 | 0:26:23 | |
which very, very few pharmacists ever achieve. | 0:26:23 | 0:26:26 | |
-Really? -Yeah. | 0:26:26 | 0:26:28 | |
But, I mean, so this was a really big moment for your dad, to...? | 0:26:28 | 0:26:32 | |
Oh, yes. Apart from a knighthood, there's not much else! | 0:26:32 | 0:26:35 | |
No! I mean, it's safe to say that Evan didn't do things by halves. | 0:26:35 | 0:26:40 | |
-Oh, no, he really... -He... | 0:26:40 | 0:26:42 | |
-Once he got stuck into it... -Yeah. -Yeah. | 0:26:42 | 0:26:44 | |
What a lovely photo. | 0:26:44 | 0:26:46 | |
-So, looking back, do you feel a huge sense of pride? -Yes. -Yeah. | 0:26:46 | 0:26:53 | |
-I always did. -Mm. | 0:26:53 | 0:26:55 | |
I was never without pride. | 0:26:56 | 0:26:58 | |
That's... You know, I used to tell people what he did | 0:27:00 | 0:27:05 | |
and what he was doing. | 0:27:05 | 0:27:08 | |
-All his life he's been giving, giving, giving. -Yeah. | 0:27:08 | 0:27:12 | |
What an incredible man. | 0:27:12 | 0:27:15 | |
It's been such a pleasure learning about him. | 0:27:15 | 0:27:17 | |
-It's been a real treat. -Yes. | 0:27:17 | 0:27:21 | |
It was really quite emotional talking to Hayden today | 0:27:27 | 0:27:30 | |
about his father, Evan. | 0:27:30 | 0:27:32 | |
There was this huge sense of pride about where his father had come from | 0:27:32 | 0:27:37 | |
and where he ended up, | 0:27:37 | 0:27:39 | |
working so hard and digging himself out of quite a hole, | 0:27:39 | 0:27:42 | |
and I can't help but feel completely bursting with pride about that. | 0:27:42 | 0:27:47 | |
So, next, on to my mum's side of the family, who I know so little about. | 0:27:49 | 0:27:54 | |
I've heard rumours of Viking blood and several surnames thrown around, | 0:27:54 | 0:27:59 | |
but really I know very little indeed, | 0:27:59 | 0:28:01 | |
so I'm really looking forward to getting my teeth into a new story. | 0:28:01 | 0:28:04 | |
Fearne is meeting genealogist Laura Berry, | 0:28:09 | 0:28:12 | |
who's been looking into her mother Linda's ancestors. | 0:28:12 | 0:28:15 | |
I don't know very much about my mum's side of the family. | 0:28:15 | 0:28:18 | |
I've heard a few rumours and stories. | 0:28:18 | 0:28:21 | |
The only thing my mum has ever said | 0:28:21 | 0:28:23 | |
is that there might have been a surname that ended in "BY" - | 0:28:23 | 0:28:27 | |
Wilby, something like that, along the way, | 0:28:27 | 0:28:29 | |
and that that could have been Viking related. | 0:28:29 | 0:28:32 | |
That sounds like a wild fairy tale to me, | 0:28:32 | 0:28:34 | |
and I don't know if there's any truth in it, but that's... | 0:28:34 | 0:28:37 | |
That's all I've ever heard. | 0:28:37 | 0:28:38 | |
Well, I've done quite a lot of digging | 0:28:38 | 0:28:40 | |
into your mum's family history, and actually there is, obviously, | 0:28:40 | 0:28:44 | |
a Wilby surname here on your nan's side, and you can see here | 0:28:44 | 0:28:48 | |
we've got you at the bottom, then there is your mum... | 0:28:48 | 0:28:51 | |
Oh, lovely Nan Sylvia. | 0:28:51 | 0:28:53 | |
..and then her dad. | 0:28:53 | 0:28:55 | |
Ronald! I had no idea he was called Ronald. | 0:28:55 | 0:28:57 | |
-Did you not know? -No! -Oh! | 0:28:57 | 0:28:58 | |
Well, Ronald's mother was a Wilby, | 0:28:58 | 0:29:01 | |
and that line has been traced back a few generations. | 0:29:01 | 0:29:04 | |
Yeah, I've heard Suffolk and Norfolk being knocked around a lot. | 0:29:04 | 0:29:09 | |
Like, it's that area of the country. | 0:29:09 | 0:29:11 | |
Whether or not it has Viking origins, it's hard to say. | 0:29:11 | 0:29:15 | |
Possibly, because that "BY" ending, like you say, | 0:29:15 | 0:29:18 | |
it's said to derive from old Scandinavian, | 0:29:18 | 0:29:20 | |
meaning farm or settlement - | 0:29:20 | 0:29:22 | |
but, I mean, we're talking, sort of, ten centuries... | 0:29:22 | 0:29:25 | |
-Yeah. -..maybe even more, back... | 0:29:25 | 0:29:26 | |
-Yeah. -..and unfortunately the records just don't go back that far, | 0:29:26 | 0:29:30 | |
but, as you can see, this tree shows lots of London-based ancestors, | 0:29:30 | 0:29:33 | |
as you suspected, until you, sort of, | 0:29:33 | 0:29:36 | |
work back further into the 19th century | 0:29:36 | 0:29:38 | |
and then you find that they are coming from the Home Counties | 0:29:38 | 0:29:41 | |
before they moved to London in search of work. | 0:29:41 | 0:29:43 | |
OK, so we've got here Middlesex and Essex, and Ipswich, | 0:29:43 | 0:29:47 | |
Essex again...but then Ireland - | 0:29:47 | 0:29:50 | |
I've never, ever heard of Ireland being connected to my family | 0:29:50 | 0:29:54 | |
in any way at all. | 0:29:54 | 0:29:55 | |
-Really? -So that's really surprising, yeah. | 0:29:55 | 0:29:57 | |
I had no idea. | 0:29:57 | 0:29:59 | |
That's your four-times great-grandfather up there. | 0:29:59 | 0:30:01 | |
-Wow. -William Gilmour. | 0:30:01 | 0:30:02 | |
Now, so, William was born in Garvagh, | 0:30:02 | 0:30:05 | |
which is in Northern Ireland, right back in the 1820s. | 0:30:05 | 0:30:10 | |
That's fascinating. | 0:30:10 | 0:30:11 | |
I would love to explore more about William Gilmour. | 0:30:11 | 0:30:15 | |
Fearne's discovered unexpected Irish roots on her mother's side. | 0:30:18 | 0:30:23 | |
Her four-times great-grandfather William Gilmour | 0:30:23 | 0:30:25 | |
was born in what is now Northern Ireland in the early 1820s. | 0:30:25 | 0:30:29 | |
Fearne has come to Northern Ireland to explore those Irish roots. | 0:30:34 | 0:30:37 | |
I am feeling really excited, | 0:30:39 | 0:30:41 | |
considering up until recently | 0:30:41 | 0:30:43 | |
I had never even heard the name William Gilmour, | 0:30:43 | 0:30:46 | |
my four-times great-grandfather, | 0:30:46 | 0:30:47 | |
and had no idea that my family were rooted in Ireland. | 0:30:47 | 0:30:51 | |
I'm so curious to find out more about William. | 0:30:51 | 0:30:54 | |
Fearne's meeting Irish historian Elaine Farrell | 0:30:57 | 0:31:00 | |
at the museum in William's hometown of Garvagh. | 0:31:00 | 0:31:03 | |
I know that my four-times great-grandfather William Gilmour | 0:31:05 | 0:31:11 | |
was born in Garvagh in around 1821. | 0:31:11 | 0:31:15 | |
I know nothing about him. | 0:31:15 | 0:31:17 | |
What would his early life have been like here? | 0:31:17 | 0:31:20 | |
Well, Garvagh would have been a predominantly rural town, | 0:31:20 | 0:31:23 | |
so most people would be employed in farming... | 0:31:23 | 0:31:26 | |
-Yeah. -..and would have been involved in the textile industry, as well. | 0:31:26 | 0:31:30 | |
So, I suppose, for William, in terms of work, | 0:31:30 | 0:31:32 | |
-his choices would have actually been quite limited. -Mmm. | 0:31:32 | 0:31:35 | |
So, our very first document actually shows us | 0:31:35 | 0:31:38 | |
that William Gilmour is not in Garvagh any more. | 0:31:38 | 0:31:41 | |
So it's the Londonderry Standard here from 1844. | 0:31:41 | 0:31:46 | |
-So he would have been 23ish, roughly? -Exactly, yeah. | 0:31:46 | 0:31:49 | |
"We have much pleasure in stating that Mr William Gilmour, | 0:31:49 | 0:31:56 | |
"of Garvagh, has been appointed | 0:31:56 | 0:31:58 | |
-"apothecary to the Liverpool South Dispensary." -Mm-hm. | 0:31:58 | 0:32:02 | |
So an apothecary is what we would understand as a chemist. | 0:32:02 | 0:32:04 | |
Yeah - there is a running theme in my family with this. | 0:32:04 | 0:32:07 | |
-Really? -On both sides of the family now, which is peculiar. | 0:32:07 | 0:32:11 | |
So, his work has now taken him to Liverpool. | 0:32:11 | 0:32:14 | |
Yes, exactly - and obviously, if he's working in Liverpool, | 0:32:14 | 0:32:17 | |
he's quite close to the docks, | 0:32:17 | 0:32:18 | |
and there would have been a very busy port, | 0:32:18 | 0:32:20 | |
so he would be treating people maybe who got injuries | 0:32:20 | 0:32:22 | |
aboard some of those ships, and also treating people | 0:32:22 | 0:32:25 | |
who would have got diseases. | 0:32:25 | 0:32:26 | |
-So he's really learning on the job here. -Wow. | 0:32:26 | 0:32:29 | |
-And such big news it made the paper, as well! Wow. -Yeah. | 0:32:29 | 0:32:32 | |
So, the next document dates to 1851. | 0:32:32 | 0:32:36 | |
-What is this document? -It's a census. | 0:32:36 | 0:32:38 | |
OK, right. So he's still in Liverpool... | 0:32:38 | 0:32:41 | |
-Yeah. -..at 31, so he's been there for quite some time now. | 0:32:41 | 0:32:43 | |
-He has. -William Gilmour, "Rank, profession or occupation, | 0:32:43 | 0:32:48 | |
"chemist and druggist." | 0:32:48 | 0:32:50 | |
Wow - and then, so... So, this is the rest of his family here? | 0:32:50 | 0:32:53 | |
Yeah. So we have - now he's married. | 0:32:53 | 0:32:55 | |
Elizabeth, wife, born Bucks Hulcott. | 0:32:55 | 0:32:59 | |
So, Buckinghamshire? | 0:32:59 | 0:33:02 | |
-Yeah. -Wow. How did they meet? | 0:33:02 | 0:33:05 | |
SHE LAUGHS | 0:33:05 | 0:33:06 | |
-Must have been in Liverpool. -She's having... | 0:33:06 | 0:33:08 | |
She's on a girls' weekend in Liverpool and meets William! | 0:33:08 | 0:33:13 | |
Goodness me - | 0:33:13 | 0:33:15 | |
-and then Bessie, I imagine that's his daughter... -Exactly. | 0:33:15 | 0:33:20 | |
-Kate. -Yeah - and you can see, as well, | 0:33:20 | 0:33:23 | |
he has an assistant working in the chemist, and he also has a servant. | 0:33:23 | 0:33:29 | |
That's incredible - cos that's not a huge amount of time. | 0:33:29 | 0:33:32 | |
So, he was 23 when he arrived in Liverpool | 0:33:32 | 0:33:35 | |
and then, by 31, he's found himself a wife, he's had children | 0:33:35 | 0:33:39 | |
and he's started up, seemingly, a successful career for himself. | 0:33:39 | 0:33:44 | |
-Yep. -Wow. | 0:33:44 | 0:33:46 | |
So now we have the Coleraine Chronicle. | 0:33:46 | 0:33:50 | |
What a wonderful big book! | 0:33:50 | 0:33:52 | |
So, this is Saturday, May the 20th, 1854. | 0:33:52 | 0:33:56 | |
"Mr William Gilmour... | 0:33:57 | 0:34:01 | |
-"..surgeon"! -Yeah - | 0:34:01 | 0:34:03 | |
so the term wouldn't be what we would understand as a surgeon, | 0:34:03 | 0:34:06 | |
-it'd be more of a GP. -OK, wow. | 0:34:06 | 0:34:08 | |
Member of the Royal Pharmaceutical Society of Great Britain. | 0:34:08 | 0:34:12 | |
Bridge Street, Coleraine. | 0:34:12 | 0:34:15 | |
Coleraine would be quite close to us here in Garvagh. | 0:34:15 | 0:34:18 | |
So, he has now moved back with his... | 0:34:18 | 0:34:21 | |
-With his whole family. -..English-born wife. Yeah. | 0:34:21 | 0:34:23 | |
So, at this point, in 1854, | 0:34:23 | 0:34:25 | |
he seems to have settled quite nicely back to his home region. | 0:34:25 | 0:34:29 | |
-Mm-hm. You would think that, Fearne, but... -Oh! | 0:34:29 | 0:34:32 | |
-..let me show you the next... -There's always another surprise, | 0:34:32 | 0:34:35 | |
isn't there? There's always another surprise! | 0:34:35 | 0:34:38 | |
So this is the Coleraine Chronicle again. | 0:34:38 | 0:34:41 | |
This is from 1855. | 0:34:41 | 0:34:44 | |
-So this is less than a year after the last newspaper. -Yeah. Mm-hm. | 0:34:44 | 0:34:50 | |
"Medical appointment, we understand that Dr Gilmour, | 0:34:50 | 0:34:53 | |
"of this town, has been appointed medical superintendent | 0:34:53 | 0:34:58 | |
"of the screw steamship Great Britain, | 0:34:58 | 0:35:01 | |
"which has been chartered by Government | 0:35:01 | 0:35:04 | |
"as a transport to convey troops to the Crimea | 0:35:04 | 0:35:07 | |
"and bring back invalids." | 0:35:07 | 0:35:10 | |
Wow, so he's off on a ship. | 0:35:10 | 0:35:11 | |
He's on the SS Great Britain, yeah. | 0:35:11 | 0:35:13 | |
This is less a year after he was announcing himself | 0:35:13 | 0:35:18 | |
as setting up his practice in Coleraine, so, for whatever reason, | 0:35:18 | 0:35:21 | |
whether it didn't go well or he got itchy feet | 0:35:21 | 0:35:24 | |
and he decided to head off again - | 0:35:24 | 0:35:26 | |
but you'll remember that he had brought his wife and his children | 0:35:26 | 0:35:29 | |
-back to Coleraine... -Yeah. -..and now he's heading off on a ship. | 0:35:29 | 0:35:32 | |
I mean, if that were me, | 0:35:32 | 0:35:34 | |
and I'd just not only moved from where I was born, | 0:35:34 | 0:35:37 | |
but had just settled and I had young kids, I'd be livid. | 0:35:37 | 0:35:40 | |
-Absolutely. -I'd be like, "You're not going on that ship, I'm afraid!" | 0:35:40 | 0:35:42 | |
-Yeah. It was a lot for her to take. -I don't care about your certificates | 0:35:42 | 0:35:45 | |
-and your career, you're staying here. -Yeah. | 0:35:45 | 0:35:47 | |
You're staying put. Get back in that surgery. | 0:35:47 | 0:35:49 | |
I'd be very angry... | 0:35:49 | 0:35:52 | |
but I'm very selfish. | 0:35:52 | 0:35:53 | |
SHE LAUGHS | 0:35:53 | 0:35:55 | |
The SS Great Britain was the largest ship in the world | 0:35:58 | 0:36:00 | |
when it launched in 1843 | 0:36:00 | 0:36:02 | |
as a state-of-the-art passenger liner | 0:36:02 | 0:36:05 | |
to cross the Atlantic to New York... | 0:36:05 | 0:36:08 | |
but when the Crimean War began a decade later, | 0:36:08 | 0:36:12 | |
ships like the Great Britain were commandeered | 0:36:12 | 0:36:15 | |
to take troops and supplies to the Black Sea, 3,000 miles away, | 0:36:15 | 0:36:18 | |
and bring back injured and sick soldiers - | 0:36:18 | 0:36:21 | |
and the man responsible for their welfare | 0:36:21 | 0:36:24 | |
was the ship's surgeon, William Gilmour. | 0:36:24 | 0:36:26 | |
Fearne has travelled from Northern Ireland to Bristol, | 0:36:33 | 0:36:35 | |
where the SS Great Britain is now in dry dock, | 0:36:35 | 0:36:38 | |
to find out more about William Gilmour's time aboard. | 0:36:38 | 0:36:41 | |
She's meeting naval historian Professor Andrew Lambert. | 0:36:41 | 0:36:45 | |
-Hi, Andrew. -Hi, Fearne. | 0:36:45 | 0:36:47 | |
-Lovely to meet you. -Welcome to the SS Great Britain. | 0:36:47 | 0:36:50 | |
Thank you. It's such a beautifully restored ship. | 0:36:50 | 0:36:52 | |
-I would love to have a look around. -Yeah, brilliant. | 0:36:52 | 0:36:54 | |
-Let's go below. -Let's go. | 0:36:54 | 0:36:56 | |
During the Crimean War, | 0:36:58 | 0:37:00 | |
these...these cabins here were put up for the soldiers, | 0:37:00 | 0:37:02 | |
and they're packed in, four men in a little tiny space. | 0:37:02 | 0:37:05 | |
Oh, my goodness. Gosh. | 0:37:05 | 0:37:07 | |
-Tiny little beds. -Yeah. | 0:37:07 | 0:37:09 | |
This was a soldiers' barrack that rolled from side to side, | 0:37:09 | 0:37:12 | |
-and people were being sick all the time, as well. -Ugh! | 0:37:12 | 0:37:14 | |
-Sounds horrific. -It was pretty grim. | 0:37:14 | 0:37:16 | |
This is where William would have worked. | 0:37:19 | 0:37:21 | |
This is the surgeon's cabin. | 0:37:21 | 0:37:23 | |
I mean, it's not very big, is it? | 0:37:23 | 0:37:24 | |
Considering he's got goodness knows how many men to look after, | 0:37:24 | 0:37:27 | |
it's a tiny room. | 0:37:27 | 0:37:28 | |
-It is - and it's also where he lives. -Wow. | 0:37:28 | 0:37:32 | |
So what sort of injuries and illnesses | 0:37:32 | 0:37:35 | |
is he going to be working with? | 0:37:35 | 0:37:37 | |
As they're going out, he's got a lot of men, | 0:37:37 | 0:37:40 | |
most of whom are pretty healthy, and he's got to keep them healthy. | 0:37:40 | 0:37:42 | |
Once they get to theatre, musket-ball wounds, | 0:37:42 | 0:37:45 | |
-very large numbers of amputations... -Ooh... | 0:37:45 | 0:37:47 | |
..and particularly major outbreaks of cholera, which is lethal, | 0:37:47 | 0:37:51 | |
-dysentery, which can be lethal... -Mm. | 0:37:51 | 0:37:54 | |
So he's making those big decisions. He's the surgeon on board. | 0:37:54 | 0:37:57 | |
He's the man who is going to actually do those difficult jobs. | 0:37:57 | 0:38:00 | |
That's a huge undertaking, to do a job like that. | 0:38:00 | 0:38:02 | |
War is...is terrible, but it also creates opportunities, | 0:38:02 | 0:38:06 | |
and the fact that he volunteers for this | 0:38:06 | 0:38:09 | |
-means that he sees this as a step up. -Mm. | 0:38:09 | 0:38:11 | |
-This is a man on a journey. -Yeah. | 0:38:11 | 0:38:14 | |
Well, I'm very curious to learn how William | 0:38:14 | 0:38:17 | |
made the transition from quite a basic rural life in Ireland | 0:38:17 | 0:38:21 | |
to having really quite an important job here on the SS Great Britain. | 0:38:21 | 0:38:26 | |
I can't quite piece all of that transition together. | 0:38:26 | 0:38:28 | |
Well, what we're looking at is a classic example | 0:38:28 | 0:38:31 | |
of Victorian social progress. It's all about taking a chance, | 0:38:31 | 0:38:35 | |
finding another way of getting on. | 0:38:35 | 0:38:37 | |
I mean, that must have been quite terrifying, | 0:38:37 | 0:38:39 | |
slash also him not quite believing his luck... | 0:38:39 | 0:38:41 | |
-Yeah. -..that he'd landed such a job. | 0:38:41 | 0:38:43 | |
I think there is a clue to that in, actually, | 0:38:43 | 0:38:45 | |
an entry that we have from the ship's logbook, | 0:38:45 | 0:38:48 | |
where he features in the day-to-day record of the ship. | 0:38:48 | 0:38:52 | |
Oh, so, William Gilmour, MD. | 0:38:53 | 0:38:57 | |
Medical degree. | 0:38:57 | 0:38:59 | |
So when would he have got that? | 0:38:59 | 0:39:01 | |
-On board? -Whenever he fancied claiming to have been at university. | 0:39:01 | 0:39:04 | |
Oh, really? So he just made it up? | 0:39:04 | 0:39:06 | |
There is no evidence he attended any of the universities | 0:39:06 | 0:39:09 | |
that awarded medical degrees, | 0:39:09 | 0:39:10 | |
so other men serving in this capacity on other ships, | 0:39:10 | 0:39:14 | |
they've actually earned this. | 0:39:14 | 0:39:16 | |
He's assumed it. | 0:39:16 | 0:39:17 | |
And so he's flying by the seat of his pants. | 0:39:17 | 0:39:20 | |
-He is. -He is going to have to get up to speed | 0:39:20 | 0:39:22 | |
with everyone else on board that boat, | 0:39:22 | 0:39:24 | |
with a really important and difficult job to do. | 0:39:24 | 0:39:27 | |
Yeah. You know, there's... There's an opportunity and he grabs it - | 0:39:27 | 0:39:30 | |
and, of course, this is a results-based industry, | 0:39:30 | 0:39:32 | |
so the key thing we need to know is, is he successful? | 0:39:32 | 0:39:35 | |
-Yeah. -Can he actually make this claim stick? | 0:39:35 | 0:39:37 | |
Right, exactly. | 0:39:37 | 0:39:38 | |
Here we have the London Standard, and the ship has come home. | 0:39:38 | 0:39:43 | |
-So, this is 1855. -Yeah, it's... -November. | 0:39:43 | 0:39:47 | |
Yeah, it's the end of the voyage. | 0:39:47 | 0:39:49 | |
OK, so, "The Great Britain, iron screw transport, | 0:39:49 | 0:39:53 | |
"came into the harbour at noon and landed the following: | 0:39:53 | 0:39:57 | |
"30 invalided officers, five women, for children, 81 military invalids. | 0:39:57 | 0:40:04 | |
"They were under the medical charge of Dr Gilmour, | 0:40:04 | 0:40:08 | |
"belonging to the Great Britain. | 0:40:08 | 0:40:10 | |
"The unremitting care and attention of this gentleman | 0:40:10 | 0:40:13 | |
"to the wants and comforts of the sick are beyond all praise." | 0:40:13 | 0:40:18 | |
So, this is a success story for him. | 0:40:18 | 0:40:22 | |
-Yeah - MD? Who cares? -So this, for him, is exactly what he wanted. | 0:40:22 | 0:40:28 | |
-Oh, yeah. -He went there, he knew he was underqualified, | 0:40:28 | 0:40:31 | |
but he got the results, and they're in print for all to see. | 0:40:31 | 0:40:34 | |
And he gets even higher testimonials than that... | 0:40:34 | 0:40:38 | |
in the Coleraine Chronicle. | 0:40:38 | 0:40:40 | |
That is where he wanted the news to be spread, isn't it? | 0:40:40 | 0:40:42 | |
-He wanted that news to reach home. -Yeah. | 0:40:42 | 0:40:44 | |
"The Great Britain was honoured by a visit by Her Majesty the Queen." | 0:40:44 | 0:40:49 | |
Wow! | 0:40:49 | 0:40:51 | |
"She went to enquire after the health of the invalids on board, | 0:40:51 | 0:40:55 | |
"and on the Sunday following, Doctor Gilmour, we understand, | 0:40:55 | 0:40:58 | |
"had the honour of lunching on board the Royal yacht, | 0:40:58 | 0:41:02 | |
"Victoria and Albert, by special invitation." | 0:41:02 | 0:41:05 | |
-Yeah. -This is the dream. | 0:41:06 | 0:41:09 | |
-Yeah. -Oh, my goodness. | 0:41:09 | 0:41:11 | |
"The Great Britain is now in Liverpool taking..." | 0:41:11 | 0:41:13 | |
Blah, blah, blah. Who cares about that bit?! | 0:41:13 | 0:41:15 | |
Oh, my goodness, he had lunch with the Queen! | 0:41:15 | 0:41:17 | |
He might not have a degree, but he's got better than that. | 0:41:17 | 0:41:20 | |
Oh, my goodness. I mean...that is huge news. | 0:41:20 | 0:41:25 | |
Huge news - | 0:41:25 | 0:41:26 | |
and for everybody to know that, to be sort of graced by royalty, | 0:41:26 | 0:41:30 | |
to be commended by royalty, | 0:41:30 | 0:41:32 | |
it doesn't get any better than that, does it? | 0:41:32 | 0:41:34 | |
-It doesn't. -And rightly so, because what he did was incredible, | 0:41:34 | 0:41:39 | |
an amazing feat, and huge success, | 0:41:39 | 0:41:41 | |
and he took the biggest risk and the biggest chance and it all paid off, | 0:41:41 | 0:41:45 | |
and there he is on the yacht having lunch with Victoria. | 0:41:45 | 0:41:48 | |
-Yeah. -Fab. | 0:41:48 | 0:41:50 | |
It's the ultimate success story, | 0:41:53 | 0:41:56 | |
someone who come from really quite humble beginnings | 0:41:56 | 0:41:59 | |
and had this vision, had an idea and made it happen. | 0:41:59 | 0:42:03 | |
He's a real chancer. | 0:42:03 | 0:42:05 | |
He had that self belief and confidence and did it - | 0:42:05 | 0:42:08 | |
and I've got a feeling there's probably more to come. | 0:42:08 | 0:42:11 | |
Fearne is on her way to meet historian Imogen Dickens | 0:42:13 | 0:42:16 | |
to find out what her four times great-grandfather | 0:42:16 | 0:42:19 | |
William Gilmour did next. | 0:42:19 | 0:42:21 | |
I'm trying to piece together this intricate puzzle | 0:42:23 | 0:42:26 | |
of my four times great-grandfather, William Gilmour. | 0:42:26 | 0:42:28 | |
I know he had a really successful voyage on the SS Great Britain | 0:42:28 | 0:42:32 | |
during the Crimean War - but I don't know what happened after that, | 0:42:32 | 0:42:36 | |
so I'm hoping that you can help me with this next leg of the journey. | 0:42:36 | 0:42:39 | |
Yes, so let me show you this poster. | 0:42:39 | 0:42:43 | |
So, "Liverpool and Australian Navigation Company. | 0:42:43 | 0:42:46 | |
"Steam from Liverpool to Australia in under 60 days." | 0:42:46 | 0:42:51 | |
Wow! So, he's gone back to sea. | 0:42:51 | 0:42:53 | |
He's gone back to sea aboard a different ship - | 0:42:53 | 0:42:56 | |
so it's not the SS Great Britain, | 0:42:56 | 0:42:58 | |
but it's the Royal Charter which is the SS Great Britain's sister ship. | 0:42:58 | 0:43:02 | |
So, it was designed by the same shipwright, the same shipbuilder. | 0:43:02 | 0:43:06 | |
So, "Including stewards fees | 0:43:06 | 0:43:09 | |
"and attendance of an experienced surgeon." | 0:43:09 | 0:43:12 | |
Wow, so that's part of your service going aboard this ship, | 0:43:12 | 0:43:16 | |
that you get a very experienced surgeon. | 0:43:16 | 0:43:18 | |
-Yeah. -What I love about this is knowing a little bit more | 0:43:18 | 0:43:22 | |
about William now is that he's probably not as experienced | 0:43:22 | 0:43:26 | |
as they might have liked! | 0:43:26 | 0:43:27 | |
I'm wondering what has made William want to go back to sea. | 0:43:27 | 0:43:32 | |
Either he just liked it - | 0:43:32 | 0:43:34 | |
or would this have been a particularly well-paid job | 0:43:34 | 0:43:37 | |
to help out his family? | 0:43:37 | 0:43:39 | |
Because he's got a young family who is back in Ireland, | 0:43:39 | 0:43:41 | |
and I'm sure they are pretty reticent to let him go again. | 0:43:41 | 0:43:45 | |
Yeah, the wage would have been good, | 0:43:45 | 0:43:46 | |
but it wouldn't have been exceptional. | 0:43:46 | 0:43:49 | |
Of course, he would have got to visit | 0:43:49 | 0:43:51 | |
loads of really exciting places. | 0:43:51 | 0:43:52 | |
A lot of ship's surgeons tended to go to visit new places. | 0:43:52 | 0:43:57 | |
Yeah, they liked the adventure. | 0:43:57 | 0:43:59 | |
Yeah, maybe bitten by the travel bug. | 0:43:59 | 0:44:01 | |
Yeah, completely. So it's all working out rather nicely for him. | 0:44:01 | 0:44:05 | |
-Wow! -Yeah, well, let me show you this. | 0:44:05 | 0:44:07 | |
So, "Ball's Cottage, Buckingham Road, Aylesbury. | 0:44:07 | 0:44:11 | |
"April the 25th, 1859. | 0:44:11 | 0:44:14 | |
"Gentleman, I beg most respectfully to tender you my resignation | 0:44:14 | 0:44:19 | |
"of the situation I have held as surgeon of the SSS Royal Charter. | 0:44:19 | 0:44:25 | |
"I'm going to commence the practice of my profession here in Aylesbury. | 0:44:25 | 0:44:30 | |
"I may succeed, and may not." | 0:44:30 | 0:44:32 | |
Right, so he's got himself a nice little practice in Aylesbury. | 0:44:32 | 0:44:36 | |
Yes, he's back on land, he's away from the ship. | 0:44:36 | 0:44:38 | |
Right, that's good. So that makes me feel relieved - | 0:44:39 | 0:44:42 | |
so he's kind of set up there, he's got his new practice, | 0:44:42 | 0:44:46 | |
the wife's happy. | 0:44:46 | 0:44:48 | |
His days on the sea were over. | 0:44:48 | 0:44:50 | |
-That's a relief. -Yeah! | 0:44:50 | 0:44:52 | |
-Morning! -All right, darling? -Good, thank you. You OK? | 0:44:56 | 0:44:59 | |
Fearne has come to Aylesbury | 0:44:59 | 0:45:00 | |
to visit the house where William set up in private practice. | 0:45:00 | 0:45:05 | |
She's meeting historian Elaine Thomson. | 0:45:05 | 0:45:07 | |
-Hi. -I'm Elaine. | 0:45:08 | 0:45:09 | |
Welcome to Aylesbury - and The Mount. | 0:45:09 | 0:45:11 | |
It's so pretty. | 0:45:11 | 0:45:12 | |
William, at this point, is in his 40s. | 0:45:15 | 0:45:18 | |
I'm imagining there were far less choppy waters living in Aylesbury | 0:45:18 | 0:45:23 | |
with his practice and his family. | 0:45:23 | 0:45:25 | |
I think when he came here, that was certainly his expectation. | 0:45:25 | 0:45:28 | |
He's moved into a beautiful house, | 0:45:28 | 0:45:30 | |
and it's here that he would have had his private practice. | 0:45:30 | 0:45:33 | |
Probably this room... | 0:45:33 | 0:45:35 | |
-Oh, really?! -..would have been used to actually see the patients, yeah. | 0:45:35 | 0:45:38 | |
So they would be coming into a very...you know, a nice space | 0:45:38 | 0:45:41 | |
to be treated, to see the doctor sitting behind his desk | 0:45:41 | 0:45:44 | |
and it would all look very professional and proper. | 0:45:44 | 0:45:47 | |
Is there a "but" coming? I feel a "but". | 0:45:47 | 0:45:49 | |
Well, I think things maybe turned out slightly differently | 0:45:49 | 0:45:54 | |
-to how he expected them to be. -Right. | 0:45:54 | 0:45:57 | |
So if I could just show you this. | 0:45:57 | 0:45:59 | |
The Bucks Herald. | 0:45:59 | 0:46:02 | |
"In bankruptcy." | 0:46:02 | 0:46:03 | |
-It's not a great start. -It's not a good start. | 0:46:03 | 0:46:06 | |
So, "Castle Street, Aylesbury, | 0:46:06 | 0:46:08 | |
"150 lots of household furniture, books, medicines, | 0:46:08 | 0:46:12 | |
"bottles and other effects will be sold by auction | 0:46:12 | 0:46:16 | |
"by Mr Robert Gibbs. | 0:46:16 | 0:46:18 | |
"On the premises of Mr W Gilmour, surgeon, Castle Street, Aylesbury, | 0:46:18 | 0:46:23 | |
"by order of the Court of Bankruptcy." | 0:46:23 | 0:46:27 | |
-Oh, that's so sad. -I know, it's terrible. | 0:46:27 | 0:46:29 | |
So he's just selling everything. | 0:46:29 | 0:46:31 | |
It's such a shame. | 0:46:31 | 0:46:33 | |
-Where did it all go wrong, William? -It's tragic. | 0:46:33 | 0:46:36 | |
Everything he has worked so hard for | 0:46:36 | 0:46:38 | |
is now practically in a yard sale in Aylesbury in this very house. | 0:46:38 | 0:46:43 | |
So, I think it must have been very difficult, very shaming. | 0:46:43 | 0:46:47 | |
And almost, I guess, it felt for him less chancy setting up here, | 0:46:47 | 0:46:52 | |
rather than at sea where there is sort of trepidation and uncertainty. | 0:46:52 | 0:46:55 | |
I think that's what you would assume, | 0:46:55 | 0:46:57 | |
that this is a safer port, as it were, | 0:46:57 | 0:46:59 | |
that he can be with his family | 0:46:59 | 0:47:01 | |
and set up in private practice and do well - | 0:47:01 | 0:47:03 | |
but I think the people who tended to be particularly ill | 0:47:03 | 0:47:06 | |
-were the poor... -Oh. -..and they're of no use to you at all, | 0:47:06 | 0:47:09 | |
-because they can't pay you. -Right. | 0:47:09 | 0:47:10 | |
Who you want, ideally, are the rich middle classes. | 0:47:10 | 0:47:13 | |
You know, some rich, constipated widows | 0:47:13 | 0:47:16 | |
who would come to you for laxatives, | 0:47:16 | 0:47:18 | |
or gouty old men who you could look after on a regular basis. | 0:47:18 | 0:47:21 | |
Simply not enough rich, constipated women in Aylesbury. | 0:47:21 | 0:47:24 | |
Not enough, yeah. | 0:47:24 | 0:47:26 | |
-And there's another... -Poor William! | 0:47:26 | 0:47:28 | |
..sort of another bit of detail about the bankruptcy. | 0:47:28 | 0:47:31 | |
So, this is the Bucks Herald. | 0:47:31 | 0:47:32 | |
This is 1865. | 0:47:32 | 0:47:35 | |
"The bankruptcy of William Gilmour. | 0:47:35 | 0:47:37 | |
"The total amount of his debts is about £500..." | 0:47:37 | 0:47:41 | |
That must have been extortionate. | 0:47:41 | 0:47:42 | |
It's about 50...about £50,000. | 0:47:42 | 0:47:45 | |
"..and he ascribes his failure to the following causes - | 0:47:45 | 0:47:50 | |
"insufficiency of income to meet my necessary expenditure | 0:47:50 | 0:47:54 | |
"and pressure of creditors. My income has been very fluctuating, | 0:47:54 | 0:47:58 | |
-"and having a family of seven children..." by this point?! -I know. | 0:47:58 | 0:48:03 | |
Oh, my goodness. | 0:48:03 | 0:48:05 | |
-I mean, that pressure is immense. -Yeah. | 0:48:05 | 0:48:09 | |
So, he's scrambling to get himself out of quite a huge problem. | 0:48:09 | 0:48:13 | |
Yeah. So you really feel for him. | 0:48:13 | 0:48:15 | |
He's had an adventurous life... | 0:48:15 | 0:48:16 | |
-He's had a fall from grace. -..he's done his best. | 0:48:16 | 0:48:18 | |
-I mean, he came back a hero at one point. -Yeah. | 0:48:18 | 0:48:20 | |
But he's not a man to let these things grind him down. | 0:48:20 | 0:48:23 | |
-He doesn't give up, does he? -He doesn't give up. | 0:48:23 | 0:48:26 | |
He never gives up - and he moves on and we see him listed in the Lancet. | 0:48:26 | 0:48:31 | |
You see, it's just the 1st of July. | 0:48:31 | 0:48:34 | |
This is a couple of months after bankruptcy. | 0:48:34 | 0:48:35 | |
Yeah, hardly any time has passed. | 0:48:35 | 0:48:38 | |
So, what's William up to now? | 0:48:38 | 0:48:39 | |
There he is. | 0:48:39 | 0:48:41 | |
So, "William Gilmour, LRCP Ed, has been elected medical officer | 0:48:41 | 0:48:46 | |
"and public vaccinator for district number one of Ongar Union, Essex." | 0:48:46 | 0:48:52 | |
Do you know what the Ongar Union is? | 0:48:52 | 0:48:53 | |
-No. -It's a workhouse. | 0:48:53 | 0:48:55 | |
-OK. -It's maybe not the most fantastic opportunity... | 0:48:55 | 0:48:59 | |
-But it's a job. -It's a job - | 0:48:59 | 0:49:01 | |
but I think it was the kind of job you would do | 0:49:01 | 0:49:04 | |
-when you couldn't find too much else. -Yeah, yeah. | 0:49:04 | 0:49:06 | |
I think, at this stage in his career, | 0:49:06 | 0:49:08 | |
he would probably be very disappointed to end up in the Union. | 0:49:08 | 0:49:11 | |
-But desperate times! -He's not given up. | 0:49:11 | 0:49:13 | |
He's not in prison, and his family aren't on their own in poverty, | 0:49:13 | 0:49:16 | |
so he's still all he could, I guess, at this point. | 0:49:16 | 0:49:18 | |
He meets his responsibilities. | 0:49:18 | 0:49:20 | |
-I think, an impressive man. -Mm. | 0:49:20 | 0:49:22 | |
It seems terribly sad now, | 0:49:22 | 0:49:24 | |
thinking back to William's resignation letter, | 0:49:24 | 0:49:26 | |
there is this one line saying about his move to Aylesbury, | 0:49:26 | 0:49:30 | |
"it may work out, it may not," | 0:49:30 | 0:49:33 | |
and it hasn't - and I'm sure he wasn't particularly expecting that. | 0:49:33 | 0:49:36 | |
It's very poignant, now, looking back at that. | 0:49:36 | 0:49:39 | |
I like that he doesn't give up, though. | 0:49:39 | 0:49:41 | |
-I like that a lot. -No - he is not a quitter, is he? | 0:49:41 | 0:49:44 | |
-Persistent. -Yeah. -Yeah. | 0:49:44 | 0:49:45 | |
That trait's in our family, for sure. | 0:49:45 | 0:49:47 | |
I think, for William, | 0:49:53 | 0:49:55 | |
he might just have one more roll of the dice in him. | 0:49:55 | 0:49:59 | |
He's a chancer, and so far it's worked out pretty well, | 0:49:59 | 0:50:03 | |
so I'm hoping at this point he can really pick himself back up | 0:50:03 | 0:50:06 | |
and get his career back on the straight | 0:50:06 | 0:50:09 | |
and support his family and get a better life for them all. | 0:50:09 | 0:50:13 | |
Fearne has come to the former Ongar Union workhouse in Essex. | 0:50:17 | 0:50:21 | |
She's meeting historian Peter Higginbotham. | 0:50:21 | 0:50:24 | |
Mind the steps. | 0:50:24 | 0:50:25 | |
It's an amazing building, this. | 0:50:25 | 0:50:27 | |
The fact it is largely untouched | 0:50:27 | 0:50:28 | |
-since it actually was a workhouse. -Yeah. | 0:50:28 | 0:50:30 | |
So, how many people would William have been looking after? | 0:50:30 | 0:50:34 | |
Although he was kind of based here, | 0:50:34 | 0:50:36 | |
he was a district medical officer, was his job title, | 0:50:36 | 0:50:39 | |
that meant he looks after people in their own homes. | 0:50:39 | 0:50:42 | |
Technically, he probably had a couple of thousand people... | 0:50:42 | 0:50:45 | |
-Mm-hm! -..that potentially could be patients. | 0:50:45 | 0:50:47 | |
Considering William now had seven children to feed, and a wife, | 0:50:47 | 0:50:50 | |
do you think he was making a sufficient wage to live on? | 0:50:50 | 0:50:53 | |
Um, quite possibly not. | 0:50:53 | 0:50:55 | |
First of all, the salary was not very good. | 0:50:55 | 0:50:58 | |
There were lots of things, lots of outgoings, | 0:50:58 | 0:51:00 | |
that you had to take out of that salary. | 0:51:00 | 0:51:02 | |
So, the doctor had to pay for all the medicines | 0:51:02 | 0:51:04 | |
that he dispensed to his patients. Which could make quite a big hole... | 0:51:04 | 0:51:08 | |
-Yeah. -..in his salary. -Absolutely. | 0:51:08 | 0:51:10 | |
If you were ill or you wanted time off, | 0:51:10 | 0:51:13 | |
then you had to arrange a standing as a sort of substitute | 0:51:13 | 0:51:16 | |
and you had to pay their costs. | 0:51:16 | 0:51:19 | |
So you could end up working virtually for nothing. | 0:51:19 | 0:51:22 | |
I guess, although this was a very hard life for William, | 0:51:22 | 0:51:24 | |
there were some pluses. | 0:51:24 | 0:51:26 | |
You know, he's in a beautiful sort of rural area, | 0:51:26 | 0:51:29 | |
perhaps reminiscent of where he's from, Garvagh, | 0:51:29 | 0:51:31 | |
where he had a very rural existence. | 0:51:31 | 0:51:33 | |
Nice for the children to be able to run around freely | 0:51:33 | 0:51:36 | |
and not be in a stuffy city with lots of disease. | 0:51:36 | 0:51:39 | |
He's managed to just about keep everything afloat | 0:51:39 | 0:51:42 | |
and keep some sort of stability. | 0:51:42 | 0:51:44 | |
When I first found out about William's life here, | 0:51:50 | 0:51:53 | |
I was relatively concerned, | 0:51:53 | 0:51:54 | |
but I feel like it wasn't as bad as I initially thought, | 0:51:54 | 0:51:58 | |
his life and his work here. | 0:51:58 | 0:52:00 | |
That's true. I mean, he settled into the job - | 0:52:00 | 0:52:02 | |
but life is never simple, | 0:52:02 | 0:52:04 | |
and in 1871, something happened that was to change | 0:52:04 | 0:52:09 | |
how things were going for him. | 0:52:09 | 0:52:11 | |
This is an entry from the Guardian's meeting minutes. | 0:52:11 | 0:52:15 | |
"Dr Gilmour, medical officer of district number one | 0:52:15 | 0:52:20 | |
"attended this board to answer a charge of neglect | 0:52:20 | 0:52:24 | |
"for not attending the child of a pauper at Fyfield, | 0:52:24 | 0:52:28 | |
"named Rose Madle when first requested to do so | 0:52:28 | 0:52:32 | |
"on the 8th of September last, | 0:52:32 | 0:52:34 | |
"and that such child died a few hours | 0:52:34 | 0:52:37 | |
"after his attendance the next morning." | 0:52:37 | 0:52:40 | |
So that's pretty serious. | 0:52:40 | 0:52:43 | |
"Mr Gilmour, having explained that he was ill | 0:52:44 | 0:52:47 | |
"on the evening of the 8th of September last, | 0:52:47 | 0:52:49 | |
"but that he attended at seven o'clock on the following morning, | 0:52:49 | 0:52:53 | |
"that his substitute had left this neighbourhood | 0:52:53 | 0:52:55 | |
"and that he had been, and still was, | 0:52:55 | 0:52:58 | |
"unable to obtain another medical substitute." | 0:52:58 | 0:53:01 | |
So, as you said, that would have been his responsibility | 0:53:01 | 0:53:04 | |
to therefore pay for someone else to go and do his job. | 0:53:04 | 0:53:07 | |
Yeah, that was one of the key responsibilities. | 0:53:07 | 0:53:09 | |
No matter what, you have to provide a service. | 0:53:09 | 0:53:11 | |
-And he didn't. -He didn't. | 0:53:11 | 0:53:13 | |
-And a kid died. -Yeah. | 0:53:13 | 0:53:15 | |
I mean, I don't know how you ever recover from that. | 0:53:16 | 0:53:19 | |
Do we know if he lost his job? | 0:53:19 | 0:53:21 | |
We're not absolutely sure. | 0:53:21 | 0:53:23 | |
-We do know he moved on from Ongar fairly soon after this event. -Mm. | 0:53:23 | 0:53:30 | |
-We do know where he was in 1880, in fact. -OK. | 0:53:30 | 0:53:33 | |
We've now moved on to the Bethnal Green workhouse in London, | 0:53:33 | 0:53:39 | |
so he's now the workhouse dispenser making up the drugs and potions | 0:53:39 | 0:53:45 | |
that were prescribed for the workhouse inmates. | 0:53:45 | 0:53:49 | |
So, "Gilmour, dispenser. | 0:53:49 | 0:53:51 | |
"Clerk read a letter from Mr Gilmour asking the guardians | 0:53:51 | 0:53:55 | |
"if they would pay him his salary weekly." | 0:53:55 | 0:53:59 | |
So what's going on here, then? | 0:53:59 | 0:54:01 | |
The fact he wanted his salary weekly, I guess, | 0:54:01 | 0:54:04 | |
sort of implies he didn't really have the savings | 0:54:04 | 0:54:07 | |
-to keep him going... -Yeah, he's in trouble. | 0:54:07 | 0:54:09 | |
..throughout, to the next pay cheque. | 0:54:09 | 0:54:11 | |
It's literally hand to mouth. | 0:54:11 | 0:54:13 | |
He needs to get that money and get that food on the table for the kids. | 0:54:13 | 0:54:17 | |
-Goodness me. -So, just a few months later, | 0:54:17 | 0:54:21 | |
early 1881, again, he crops up in the minutes. | 0:54:21 | 0:54:27 | |
I'm imagining at this point it's more bad news. | 0:54:27 | 0:54:29 | |
Let's have a look. | 0:54:30 | 0:54:32 | |
"The medical officer reported that there was no improvement | 0:54:32 | 0:54:34 | |
"in the health of Mr Gilmour, dispenser." | 0:54:34 | 0:54:37 | |
-So he's ill now? -That's right. | 0:54:37 | 0:54:39 | |
Do we know what was wrong with him? | 0:54:39 | 0:54:40 | |
We could move forward another few weeks. | 0:54:40 | 0:54:44 | |
Another entry in the minute book. | 0:54:45 | 0:54:48 | |
This is the 22nd of March 1881. | 0:54:48 | 0:54:52 | |
"Mr Knox reported that Mr Gilmour, the dispenser, died on Monday." | 0:54:52 | 0:54:58 | |
Oh, gosh, how sad. | 0:55:00 | 0:55:01 | |
Do we know what William died of? | 0:55:03 | 0:55:06 | |
Well, final piece of paper. | 0:55:06 | 0:55:10 | |
So this is certified copy of an entry of death. | 0:55:10 | 0:55:15 | |
"William Gilmour, 60 years old, cause of death, bronchitis." | 0:55:15 | 0:55:19 | |
So, three months. | 0:55:19 | 0:55:22 | |
So, it could have been something that he caught from a patient, | 0:55:22 | 0:55:26 | |
or someone he was dispensing drugs to, | 0:55:26 | 0:55:28 | |
or is that quite common of that era? | 0:55:28 | 0:55:30 | |
-I think it's probably a reflection of his living conditions. -Mm. | 0:55:30 | 0:55:35 | |
-It was a typical workhouse kind of condition. -Mm! | 0:55:35 | 0:55:39 | |
He had such high hopes, and he kept on trudging and battling away, | 0:55:39 | 0:55:44 | |
and...and never quite made it. | 0:55:44 | 0:55:47 | |
So, he finished his life in quite a humble way - | 0:55:47 | 0:55:51 | |
-as it had started, I guess, really. -Mm. | 0:55:51 | 0:55:54 | |
-As far as we know, there weren't any obituaries. -No. | 0:55:54 | 0:55:57 | |
No, he just seems to have... | 0:55:57 | 0:55:58 | |
-Just drifted away. That was it. -Yeah, really sad. -Mm. | 0:55:58 | 0:56:01 | |
Poor, poor William - | 0:56:02 | 0:56:06 | |
and his poor wife. | 0:56:06 | 0:56:07 | |
"Widow... | 0:56:07 | 0:56:09 | |
"present at the death." | 0:56:09 | 0:56:10 | |
Gosh, how sad. | 0:56:10 | 0:56:12 | |
Good story, though. He had a great story. | 0:56:16 | 0:56:18 | |
He definitely wasn't boring. | 0:56:18 | 0:56:20 | |
That's for sure. | 0:56:20 | 0:56:22 | |
Definitely wasn't boring. | 0:56:22 | 0:56:24 | |
He was never prepared to surrender. | 0:56:26 | 0:56:29 | |
He had huge dreams, and... | 0:56:30 | 0:56:33 | |
..it just didn't work out for him. | 0:56:34 | 0:56:36 | |
He was made of strong stuff, | 0:56:38 | 0:56:39 | |
and I think that's what I'm going to take away from this story | 0:56:39 | 0:56:42 | |
more than anything. | 0:56:42 | 0:56:44 | |
I really hoped when I was starting out that I would discover | 0:56:47 | 0:56:51 | |
some real hard-working characters who had grit and passion | 0:56:51 | 0:56:55 | |
and determination. | 0:56:55 | 0:56:57 | |
Evan, who went from coalminer to chemist. | 0:56:57 | 0:57:01 | |
Sure, he had his ups and downs, but it was a real success story - | 0:57:01 | 0:57:04 | |
and then poor William, who tried so hard. | 0:57:04 | 0:57:08 | |
He was relentless in his efforts to do well for himself and his family, | 0:57:08 | 0:57:13 | |
and he had these wonderful glimmers of hope and great moments, | 0:57:13 | 0:57:17 | |
but the end of the tale was really quite heartbreaking. | 0:57:17 | 0:57:20 | |
I really want my kids to understand these brilliant stories | 0:57:20 | 0:57:23 | |
when they get older and see the determination | 0:57:23 | 0:57:26 | |
and the grit and the passion there. | 0:57:26 | 0:57:28 | |
So, on that note, I'm off to go home to give my kids a big hug. | 0:57:31 | 0:57:34 |