John Barnes Who Do You Think You Are?


John Barnes

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John Barnes is best known for playing football for Liverpool,

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and still lives with his family close to his former club.

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In a glittering career spanning nearly two decades,

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he represented England 79 times.

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Yet John wasn't born in England.

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My father was a colonel in the Jamaican army

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and he was posted here as military attache,

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so I fully expected to go back to the Caribbean and Jamaica

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when I was 16, 17, and the family went back and I stayed to play football.

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John helped steer Liverpool to League and FA Cup success

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but like many black footballers of that time,

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witnessed racism at first hand.

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There is a great picture, and it was in the newspapers as well,

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of me back-heeling a banana off the field.

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Obviously things have happened which haven't been pleasant,

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but I tend to look at them as experiences that are necessary

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for you to grow, for you to be who you are.

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Because I came from Jamaica, and I'm from a middle-class Jamaican family,

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I was fully empowered as to who I actually was,

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so coming to England and experiencing racism and the prejudice,

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it really was water off a duck's back to me.

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Married twice, John has seven children -

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the oldest 27, the youngest 18 months old.

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John now works as a football pundit,

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well known for his honest and forthright opinions.

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'I do argue a lot and I'm fairly opinionated.'

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I try and be objective, so I try and see both sides,

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although my side I probably argue a little bit more for!

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My family are fairly political.

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My grandfather and his brothers in Jamaica

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were part of a trade union movement, and they argue about politics. They argue a lot.

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But my grandfather, Frank, wasn't the most exciting person,

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because he was always on the typewriter or reading books,

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so I'm hoping to go further down the line

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to find some more active, dynamic people,

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outdoors people, er, but Frank is the first point.

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Now I'm going to head off to Jamaica and see my mother

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to get her to tell me some of the old stories she has already told me,

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which I wasn't listening to cos I was too busy playing football.

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Hopefully I'll find out a little bit more about where I came from.

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-John!

-How are you doing?

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-Long time no see.

-Hello. How you doing, sweetie?

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-Very well.

-Nice to see you, sweetie.

-Good to see you.

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What have you done to the weather? How hot is this?

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-It's cool?

-No, it's too hot!

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-I'm from the cold country.

-This is good for July.

-I know, this is good weather.

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It was hotter last year.

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The Caribbean island of Jamaica was captured by the British

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from the Spanish in 1655.

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Over the next two centuries,

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Britain's plantation owners exploited the trade in slaves

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to make Jamaica one of the world's largest exporters of sugar.

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Jamaica gained independence from Britain in 1962

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and this year is celebrating its 50th anniversary.

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It is now one of the 54 members of the Commonwealth.

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Around 90% of islanders are directly descended from slaves.

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Just over half a million people

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live in and around the island's capital, Kingston.

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John spent his early childhood in Jamaica

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with his two older sisters, Tracy and Gillian,

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his mother Jeanne and father Ken,

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before Ken moved the family to England in 1976.

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Well, my father played football for Jamaica.

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He captained the Jamaica national team, he managed the team -

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not at the same time - then became President of the Football Federation.

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He was just the greatest man, as far as I'm concerned.

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Ken Barnes was a sportsman and soldier,

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trained by the British at Sandhurst.

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He rose to number two in the Jamaican Defence Force

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based at Up Park Camp in Kingston where the family used to live.

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Ken died in 2009.

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My favourite picture of your father is that one on the wall, yes.

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-When was that?

-That was taken 1988.

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We went to Up Park Camp when you were a couple of months old, in about '64.

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-You had some good times there, didn't you?

-I had all the times!

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-You had the run of the place.

-And the football field was opposite where we lived

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-and we had 18 mango trees in the garden.

-Yes.

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And you used to play football there. That was all you used to do.

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This is the earliest picture I can remember of me.

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Your father, when he was at staff college, he sent stuff home,

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and he sent a sweater for me and he sent this for you and some things for the girls,

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and we wanted to show that you were, even in this hot climate,

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-you were using the bathrobe.

-Did he forget where we lived?! You got a big sweater,

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I've got a woolly bathrobe, when we live in Jamaica, 100 degrees.

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That was what they were selling in England.

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So this was what we took. And there you were.

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-He was very pleased when we sent those pictures to him.

-All right.

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When we went to England in '76, we stayed nearly 4½ years.

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-Some of us who were deserted stayed longer.

-Stayed longer.

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All right, well, let me show you some more members of the family.

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We're talking about our little family, but over here,

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this is the first thing I did when I moved here last November, set up this wall with all my pictures.

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-This is my father, your grandfather, Frank Hill.

-Yeah.

-You remember much about him?

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I remember Frank. Not too much because every time we went round,

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-he was inside, reading and typing.

-Typing.

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-I was an outdoor kind of guy.

-Yes, and he was an indoor kind of guy.

-An indoor kind of guy.

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Oh, yes, he was a journalist. This is a bust of Frank...

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-Yeah.

-..when he was chairman of the National Heritage Trust, the Institute of Jamaica.

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-OK.

-And this is his father, Stephen Hill,

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my grandfather, your great-grandfather.

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-Who you think I look like.

-Yes. I think you look a lot like him.

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He was an associate editor of the Gleaner.

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I don't know too much about his journalistic career.

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All right, this is one of the 25th wedding anniversary of my father Frank and mother Monica.

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-Mm-hm.

-December 20th 1959. I was in England at the time,

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so I wasn't here. But all the rest of the family in Jamaica are here.

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-That's Uncle Ken.

-Right.

-He and Dad were like peas in a pod.

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And all their political activities got them into a lot of hot water.

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And in fact, they were arrested and interned in Up Park Camp

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-for threatening to overthrow Her Majesty's Government.

-Nice!

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Well, that is what they were doing, fomenting unrest among the masses,

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the working class of Jamaica.

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They were always nationalists. Loved Jamaica to death.

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As a boy, John was close to his football-loving father

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and paid less attention to the bookish men on his mother's side of the family.

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Now he wants to find out more about his maternal grandfather,

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Frank Hill, who was a journalist and trades union leader

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when Jamaica was still ruled by the British.

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While I remember this picture of me in Up Park Camp, where I grew up,

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I had heard stories of course about my grandfather, Frank,

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and I know from the political aspect of the family that he was involved,

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and his brother Ken particularly, were involved in...shenanigans, shall we say?

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So I'm going to find out a bit more about them being, as my mother said, in Up Park Camp.

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In the early 1940s, Jamaica was a crown colony ruled from London.

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The island was controlled by a white colonialist elite.

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Day-to-day law and order on the island was the responsibility of the British Governor.

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In November 1942, during the darkest days of the Second World War,

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Frank and his brother Ken, along with two other union leaders,

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were imprisoned on the Governor's orders, and held at Up Park Camp,

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which at the time was a British Army base.

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It is now the home of the Jamaican Defence Force.

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John has come here to meet Lieutenant-Colonel Martin Rickman.

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So, John, we're now walking on the ground

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-where that internment camp was actually located.

-Right.

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Now, the camp would have been maybe about ten or so wooden huts

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and it was bordered by barbed-wire fencing, with a guard at the gate.

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And there were internees, both local and also Germans,

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because it was at the time of the war,

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-and German merchant shippers were detained here...

-Right.

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..for a period at that time.

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Well, I didn't realise it was so close,

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because this is where my football career started.

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-Oh, really?

-I didn't realise that my grandfather was interned not far from here.

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We played football here on the way to swimming training at the national stadium, which is close,

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and this is where my career started.

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We're sitting where the internment camp was.

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I've come here so many times without knowing this is where it actually was, and this existed.

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So, really, next up is to find out more about that incident and why they were interned here.

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John has come to the Governor's residence, King's House,

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to look at colonial records relating to his grandfather's imprisonment.

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He is meeting Khitanya Petgrave,

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professor of history at the University of the West Indies.

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-Hi, I'm John.

-Hi, I'm Khitanya. Nice to meet you.

-And you.

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-Welcome to King's House, John.

-Thank you.

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There are some wonderful, grand surroundings here. It's a very important house for 1962,

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when Jamaica gained independence. It would have been the main office and official residence

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of the British Governor during the period of colonialism.

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-This was where the movers and shakers were.

-Exactly. And major decisions would have been made here.

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First of all, the Governor at the time of the internment -

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there's a picture here of Governor Arthur Richards.

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-Looks a very serious man.

-Yes, he does, in his rather grand outfit, there.

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-Very grand.

-Yeah.

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So here are the documents, actually, that I'd like to show you.

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You can see here that these are top-secret communiques

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-between the Governor and the Colonial Office in London.

-OK.

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-Your grandad was detained on 3rd November.

-Mm-hm.

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This is the first communique between the Governor of Jamaica at the time,

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Sir Arthur Richards, and the Colonial Secretary of State.

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"Most Immediate. I have detained under Regulation 18

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"of Jamaica Defence Regulations, 1940, the following -

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"Richard Hart, Arthur Henry..."

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..somebody Barstow Hill, scribbled out to make Frank Hill,

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who's my grandfather, obviously, and Ken Hill.

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And they were collectively known as the Four Hs, right?

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They're kind of the most vehement anti-colonial critics at the time.

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And a lot of the ways in which they communicated their ideas

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-was through involvement in trade union groups.

-Right.

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Frank and Ken Hill, and the two other union leaders,

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were collectively known as the Four Hs,

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and imprisoned for their political beliefs

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under emergency wartime legislation.

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"Frank Hill is a leading member of the Metropolitan group

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"of left-wing PNP, and a former group president."

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I'll stop you right there.

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First of all, the PNP was the People's National Party,

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a party which your grandfather was a part of,

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um, and, essentially, the remit of it was to fight for self-government or political autonomy.

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At the time, very few Jamaicans had the right to vote.

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Power lay with the predominantly white minority.

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The PNP was left wing

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and supported the poor black workers on the island.

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Modelled on the British Labour Party,

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it was Jamaica's first serious political party

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to challenge colonial rule.

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Frank's involvement soon brought him to the attention of the authorities.

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-If you just read it for me, please.

-OK.

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"He owns The Worker printery.

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"From this printing press emanates all the subversive literature

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"and objectionable newspapers in the island."

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Frank Hill was a journalist, so he's being accused here

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of being the main propagandist of the PNP at the time.

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They actually seized documents from The Worker printery, and if you read along here...

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"We want public mass feeling aroused.

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"All that wealth of anti-imperialist feeling bred by years of British evil rule.

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"For this is not our war, it is Tory England's war.

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"Be it resolved that the PNP in the name of the people of Jamaica

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"demand declaration by the British Government of Jamaica's independence."

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So these are some of the words that your grandfather wrote.

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You know, this is the during the wartime, the Second World War,

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and he's using the conditions of wartime

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to really further fuel and spur on the nationalist movement,

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using it as a condition to declare, "This is a time for independence for Jamaica."

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This is very interesting. I've seen similar words before, similar words,

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but obviously not knowing that my grandfather obviously felt the same way.

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At the time Frank was campaigning for political change,

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Britain was at a perilous point of the war.

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By 1942, Hitler had occupied Europe and pushed on into Africa.

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The colonies were being asked to do their bit,

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and many Jamaicans had signed up, but some, like Frank,

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questioned Jamaica's role in the war.

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His views worried the Governor.

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OK, I'd like to show you the Governor's real opinions

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of Frank Hill and his colleagues, the ones he detained.

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If you just read right here...

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"I have long desired for the public safety to curb this man's activities.

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"Information now at my disposal shows that it is imperative to exercise control over him

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"before he has further opportunity of disseminating such dangerous opinions amongst the ignorant masses here,

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"who are unusually receptive to such propaganda."

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This particular Governor was very intent on keeping things under control

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and he saw Frank Hill and his brother and colleagues as destabilising forces.

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Of course, this time is when a new educated elite,

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a black elite or Indian elite, or Asian elite in Asia, then started to question...

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-That's right.

-..you know, their own humanity, and ask for independence themselves, so...

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And you're quite right about this idea of a well-educated elite of which Frank Hill was a part.

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This would have definitely upset the status quo.

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While the Governor of Jamaica was busy jailing dissidents,

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some members of the wartime coalition back in the UK

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were becoming alarmed by growing unrest in the colonies.

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They didn't want to upset the war effort

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and were beginning to recognise a legitimate desire for self-rule throughout the Empire.

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Chief among those in Government was the socialist minister Sir Stafford Cripps,

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who now took up the cause of the Four Hs.

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Ken Hill, your great-uncle,

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wrote to Stafford Cripps while he was in detention.

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Let me show you the response from Stafford Cripps

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to our Colonial Secretary at the time, Oliver Stanley.

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"I am sending you a letter from a very nice young Negro I met out in Jamaica

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"with whose ability I was much struck.

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"He seems to have got into an internment camp for no explained reason.

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"This is exactly the type of man that good, sensible handling can make a real asset to Jamaica,

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"whereas shutting him up will only make him bitter and vengeful and won't do any good.

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"I daresay this matter has been straightened out - I hope so."

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I don't know what your impressions of that are. First of all, "very nice young Negro" - that's...

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-That's nice language at that time.

-Exactly.

-A bit condescending, but what do you expect? It's 1942.

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I would rather stay in prison, to be honest with you!

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-But anyway...

-But what this shows is really that Stafford Cripps understood that it was really good

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to have Ken Hill and the Four Hs on their side.

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And I'd like to bring into the view the fact that they really subscribed... The Four Hs

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and the leading members of the PNP really believed in Fabian socialism,

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which is the same thing that the British Labour Party stood for.

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The idea of that, yes, change should come about,

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but it should be through gradual reform and not revolutionary change, as such.

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The Governor in Jamaica now found himself at odds

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with the Secretary of State for the Colonies back in London,

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who accepted that some limited self-rule

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would be inevitable for the island.

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The next thing that happens

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is a letter from the Secretary of State to the Governor.

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And it says, "Increasing Parliamentary interest is being taken in cases of four men

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"whose detention under Defence Regulation was reported in a telegram, number 889.

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"Even if these men have not exercised their right of appeal,

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"you will no doubt think it is desirable to consider from time to time how far the circumstances

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"in which it was found necessary to detain them have changed by reason of the improved political situation

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"and the likelihood that the People's National Party, will now turn its energies

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"to constructive effort within new constitution."

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Right. So you can see that the Colonial Office realises

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that the PNP are completely on board with this idea of constitutional reform

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and are willing to work... This culture of negotiation, mediation, working together...

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-Even if the men haven't asked to be released, release them?

-Yes, release them.

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-They're saying, even if they haven't made representation, you know, get them out.

-Right.

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And this is the reply to the Secretary of State

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from the Governor, the following the day, 16th March. OK.

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"I have decided to suspend, unconditionally, the orders against four internees,

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"Frank Hill, Ken Hill, Richard Hart and Henry.

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"I am convinced that the risk is worth taking, to give them a chance of turning their activities

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-"towards making the new constitution a success."

-So even he realises that it's pointless

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to have the Four Hs continue to be detained.

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On 18th March 1943, after just over four months in detention,

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Frank and the rest of the Four Hs were eventually released on the orders of the Governor.

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Sir Arthur Richards, he was a little bit problematic

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and actually he was replaced very soon after this, in July 1943.

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-Yeah.

-Yes, so... But Frank Hill was at the centre...

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Your grandad was at the centre of all this political activity,

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-at a very critical moment in Jamaican history.

-Mm.

-Yeah.

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Knowing more about my grandfather, he's going up in my estimation, Frank.

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He's much more exciting than I thought.

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Which then leads me to thinking about my love of football coming from my father,

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and I'm just wondering if Frank's love of politics and writing,

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whether that would have been from his father, my great-grandfather, Stephen Hill.

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And that's what I aim to find out next.

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To find out more about Stephen Hill,

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John is contacting his mother's cousin Robert Hill,

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who is professor of Caribbean history

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at the University College of Los Angeles.

0:21:260:21:30

John's great-grandfather, Stephen, was also a journalist,

0:21:340:21:38

but at a very different kind of newspaper from Frank's The Worker.

0:21:380:21:42

The Daily Gleaner, founded in 1834,

0:21:480:21:51

was very much an Establishment newspaper,

0:21:510:21:54

owned by white merchants.

0:21:540:21:56

"Dearest John,

0:22:000:22:01

"I'm really pleased you got in touch with me about your research.

0:22:010:22:04

"Your great-grandfather, my grandfather, Stephen,

0:22:040:22:07

"is a rather enigmatic figure in the family.

0:22:070:22:10

"Perhaps one of his greatest achievements

0:22:100:22:12

"was that he rose to the rank of associate news editor of the Daily Gleaner.

0:22:120:22:16

"The fact that he was a black man in such a prominent position at this time in Jamaica is quite remarkable.

0:22:160:22:21

"During my research a few decades ago, I came across an interesting document you might wish to see.

0:22:210:22:26

"I had forgotten all about it until I got your message.

0:22:260:22:30

"I have attached the document to this e-mail and hope you find it useful."

0:22:300:22:34

The reply John receives from Robert Hill comes with an attachment.

0:22:340:22:38

"Re activities of Mr Marcus Garvey.

0:22:400:22:42

"I beg to report as follows...

0:22:420:22:44

"On Friday 14th, instant,

0:22:440:22:47

"he conducted a meeting in the Ward Theatre

0:22:470:22:50

"under the auspices of the People's Political Party.

0:22:500:22:53

"The object of this meeting was to protest against the Daily Gleaner's method

0:22:530:22:57

"of inciting the public mind against an unfortunate section of the community."

0:22:570:23:01

It doesn't really make much sense to me, to be honest.

0:23:010:23:04

So, I shall have to try and find out some more details.

0:23:040:23:07

The mystery document appears to be an account of a protest meeting

0:23:110:23:14

held in Kingston by the black nationalist leader, Marcus Garvey.

0:23:140:23:18

Garvey was a Jamaican-born early pioneer of black civil rights.

0:23:190:23:24

"Politically, the Marcus Garvey African Nationalist Movement

0:23:240:23:28

"with a following of tens of thousands,

0:23:280:23:31

"emphasise African-ness for Afro-Americans."

0:23:310:23:33

Garvey toured the United States extensively and recruited

0:23:350:23:39

thousands of supporters, before falling foul of the FBI.

0:23:390:23:44

He was imprisoned and then deported in 1927.

0:23:440:23:47

Back in Jamaica,

0:23:500:23:52

Garvey set out to represent the poor black community,

0:23:520:23:55

who had no right to vote,

0:23:550:23:58

and to challenge the ruling white elite on the island.

0:23:580:24:01

It seems that, in 1928,

0:24:110:24:13

Garvey held a meeting to protest against the Daily Gleaner.

0:24:130:24:17

John needs to know how this relates to his great-grandfather, Stephen,

0:24:170:24:22

who was associate editor of the paper at the time.

0:24:220:24:24

John has come to the University of the West Indies

0:24:280:24:31

to meet Prof Clinton Hutton, an expert on black nationalism.

0:24:310:24:36

-Professor, how are you?

-Hi, I'm good, man. How are you, John?

0:24:360:24:39

-John. Nice to see you.

-Yeah, nice to see you too. Good, good.

0:24:390:24:42

Professor Hutton, I'm trying to find out information

0:24:440:24:47

about my great-grandfather, Stephen.

0:24:470:24:49

My cousin Bobby sent an attachment which I couldn't really understand.

0:24:490:24:55

So I thought you maybe could shed some light on it.

0:24:550:24:58

This is in relation to a meeting that was held by Marcus Garvey,

0:24:580:25:04

and this meeting was held

0:25:040:25:07

to protest reports in the Daily Gleaner newspaper.

0:25:070:25:12

Your great-grandfather was one of its editors

0:25:120:25:16

and in two reports said that Garvey was in a conspiracy

0:25:160:25:21

to attack a number of prominent persons,

0:25:210:25:25

um, who were regarded as his political enemies.

0:25:250:25:28

-This is...the first of them.

-Right.

0:25:280:25:33

"Hooligans set upon Mr John Soulette.

0:25:330:25:37

"The incident occurred just as Mr Soulette was closing his establishment.

0:25:380:25:42

"He was in the act of bolting one of its windows,

0:25:420:25:45

"which opened into Tower Street, when the hooligan came from behind

0:25:450:25:48

"and administered a couple of blows with his fist.

0:25:480:25:50

"The attack on Mr Soulette was premeditated

0:25:500:25:53

"and there was good reason to believe

0:25:530:25:54

"that it was arranged in certain quarters.

0:25:540:25:56

"We are fully a year off the general election

0:25:560:25:59

"and if this exhibition of hooliganism commences already,

0:25:590:26:02

-"one can conjecture what will be the situation next year."

-Yeah.

0:26:020:26:06

This...this is the second...

0:26:060:26:10

the second one.

0:26:100:26:12

"Gleaner hears beating-up of Mr Soulette part of plot."

0:26:120:26:15

-Which is really a development of...

-Or just the same.

0:26:150:26:20

-..but now we're saying that it's definitely part of a plot.

-OK.

0:26:200:26:23

Marcus Garvey believed

0:26:260:26:28

that Stephen Hill was the author of the articles in the Gleaner.

0:26:280:26:32

These articles suggested that the attack on Mr Soulette,

0:26:320:26:35

a watchmaker and local politician, was not random,

0:26:350:26:39

but organised by Garvey and his supporters

0:26:390:26:43

to intimidate Soulette ahead of elections in 1930.

0:26:430:26:46

The articles also claimed attacks were planned

0:26:460:26:50

on other prominent citizens,

0:26:500:26:51

including John's great-grandfather, Stephen.

0:26:510:26:55

Now, Garvey called this meeting to protest the report,

0:26:570:26:59

-and this is part of it.

-And this is Marcus Garvey speaking?

-Right.

0:26:590:27:04

"Whereas the Daily Gleaner of the island on the 10th and 11th days of December 1928

0:27:050:27:10

"published a certain untruthful statement with respect

0:27:100:27:13

"to an assault committed on a Mr John Soulette of this city

0:27:130:27:15

"and where such statements were fabricated

0:27:150:27:18

"for the purpose of endeavouring to discredit and hold up to public ridicule and contempt

0:27:180:27:21

"certain citizens of this island and prejudice their political career."

0:27:210:27:25

Yeah. The meeting was, um, said to have been attended

0:27:250:27:29

by over 3,000 persons,

0:27:290:27:31

essentially to put pressure on the Gleaner

0:27:310:27:34

and your great-grandfather,

0:27:340:27:37

-and actually blamed him for this report...

-OK.

0:27:370:27:40

..that they considered... that they denied

0:27:400:27:43

to have any validity at all.

0:27:430:27:46

Marcus Garvey retaliated by publishing a pamphlet

0:27:490:27:52

accusing Stephen Hill and the Gleaner

0:27:520:27:55

of smearing his campaign to win seats for Garvey's candidates,

0:27:550:27:59

including a Mr Simpson.

0:27:590:28:01

Marcus Garvey announced Simpson as one of his speakers.

0:28:020:28:08

"The greatest hooligan in the world is that man

0:28:080:28:10

"who can stick in one suit of clothes from Christmas to Christmas, he's the biggest hooligan,

0:28:100:28:14

"and that man is to be found at the Gleaner.

0:28:140:28:16

"Talk about anybody striking Hill. Why, you would have to have

0:28:160:28:20

"a Euphrates to wash your hands after you've done it. Laughter.

0:28:200:28:23

"Look at that man's bloodshot eyes and dribbling mouth,

0:28:230:28:26

"look at his lips, but don't attempt to draw a match near his mouth to avoid an explosion."

0:28:260:28:31

Well, we know he liked a drink. THEY LAUGH

0:28:310:28:33

-You know that?

-Yeah.

0:28:330:28:35

-So the attack was quite personal.

-Mm-hm.

0:28:350:28:38

It's part of trying to... to discredit him.

0:28:380:28:40

They are saying that somehow Hill...

0:28:400:28:45

is not a representative of black people,

0:28:450:28:48

is a representative of those classes of people who own the Gleaner.

0:28:480:28:54

Stephen is a much more complex character, even than Frank.

0:28:590:29:04

I don't know if he's been swept away because he's working for the paper, so he has to take this stance,

0:29:040:29:09

but it seems that he has made a few enemies in Jamaica.

0:29:090:29:14

Stephen Hill died in 1937 at the relatively young age of 54,

0:29:140:29:20

just before the struggle for Jamaican independence really took off.

0:29:200:29:24

John wants to know whether Stephen's reputation was damaged

0:29:340:29:37

by his public spat with Marcus Garvey.

0:29:370:29:40

He's heading for Spanish Town, the old capital of Jamaica,

0:29:460:29:49

where the national archives are located.

0:29:490:29:52

He's meeting research consultant, Dianne Frankson.

0:29:520:29:56

-Hi, Dianne, I'm John.

-Hello, how are you, John?

-Nice to meet you.

0:29:580:30:02

Well, here's a picture of my great-grandfather, Stephen Hill,

0:30:020:30:06

and I'm just really here to try and find out

0:30:060:30:08

whether the altercation with Marcus Garvey ruined his reputation,

0:30:080:30:12

or whether he was viewed in a different light after that.

0:30:120:30:17

Well, that would not have been unusual for the time.

0:30:170:30:20

-Mm-hm.

-Mainly because Marcus Garvey

0:30:200:30:25

was considered a radical, an extreme radical.

0:30:250:30:28

He was basically a person who appealed at the time,

0:30:280:30:32

mostly to the working class, not to a middle-class person.

0:30:320:30:35

And not only that, the Gleaner has traditionally

0:30:350:30:39

-been a very Establishment-based paper, even till today.

-Mmm.

0:30:390:30:44

This is entitled "The tragic death of SA Hill of the Gleaner."

0:30:460:30:51

"Some time after midnight

0:30:510:30:53

"he was down in the vicinity of the Victoria Market pier,

0:30:530:30:56

"and presumably went for a stroll on the pier itself.

0:30:560:30:59

"At about quarter to one o'clock, a boatman who was in his boat

0:30:590:31:02

"heard a splash and, shortly after, saw a hat floating on the water.

0:31:020:31:05

"At 6 o'clock, a body was seen floating near the western side of the pier.

0:31:050:31:09

"It was speedily identified as that of Mr Stephen Hill

0:31:090:31:12

"of the Gleaner's editorial staff."

0:31:120:31:14

How do you feel about that?

0:31:140:31:16

There was a rumour, and I've heard the rumour about his drinking habits

0:31:160:31:20

and, um, he probably was wandering

0:31:200:31:22

a little bit too close and a bit inebriated and fell into the water.

0:31:220:31:27

Let's now look at...

0:31:270:31:30

tributes that were paid to your great-grandfather.

0:31:300:31:34

"Next to his love for newspaper work, he loved the thoroughbreds

0:31:340:31:39

"and few indeed were the race meetings in Kingston and St Andrew

0:31:390:31:42

"he missed in the past 35 years.

0:31:420:31:44

"Years ago, he owned a couple of thoroughbreds

0:31:440:31:46

"with which he won several races

0:31:460:31:48

"and his familiar figure will be missed at Knutsford and the Kingston course

0:31:480:31:52

"when his devotees gather together for the king of sports."

0:31:520:31:55

He actually raced horses.

0:31:550:31:58

So, you're talking a black man

0:31:580:32:01

achieving the status of going into the upper-middle class.

0:32:010:32:06

Now, you're starting to understand why Marcus Garvey

0:32:060:32:09

would definitely have not been his best friend.

0:32:090:32:11

Well, it wasn't financial. Maybe he moved in those circles,

0:32:110:32:14

but he didn't have any money to move in those circles, I tell you that!

0:32:140:32:18

Well, but you know, actually, class has very little to do with money.

0:32:180:32:22

-If he managed to work himself there...

-Mmm.

0:32:220:32:26

..and get accepted,

0:32:260:32:29

-that was an achievement in itself.

-Mmm.

0:32:290:32:31

Let me tell you that.

0:32:310:32:32

Although both journalists,

0:32:380:32:40

father and son were clearly very different politically.

0:32:400:32:44

Stephen would appear to have become a member of the Establishment,

0:32:440:32:48

whereas his son, Frank, was taking a more radical path.

0:32:480:32:52

So, just how did John's grandfather, Frank,

0:33:000:33:03

become part of the Jamaican independence movement?

0:33:030:33:06

John has come to the Ward Theatre in downtown Kingston

0:33:120:33:15

to meet Dr Raphael Dalleo.

0:33:150:33:17

-Hi, I'm John.

-Hi, Raphael. Great to meet you.

0:33:170:33:20

Nice to meet you too.

0:33:200:33:22

Raphael, an expert in Caribbean political writing,

0:33:250:33:29

has documents relating to Frank's early political life.

0:33:290:33:32

In 1937, he's working at the Water Commission here in Kingston,

0:33:340:33:38

and one of his colleagues there is a man named OT Fairclough.

0:33:380:33:42

So Fairclough is someone

0:33:420:33:45

who has very strong political beliefs in self-governance

0:33:450:33:48

and he and Frank are talking about what to do about this.

0:33:480:33:51

So the two of them decide they're going to launch a newspaper,

0:33:510:33:54

titled Public Opinion.

0:33:540:33:56

"New wine in new bottle.

0:33:560:33:58

"Is it inevitable that Jamaica will remain forever a crown colony

0:33:580:34:02

"with scant voice in her own destinies?

0:34:020:34:04

"Are her people as a whole incapable of reaching

0:34:040:34:06

"the level of civilisation which guarantees equilibrium

0:34:060:34:09

"and progress of adaptation to the requirements of a changing world?"

0:34:090:34:12

OK? So this is not a signed article, but we think this is something that Frank would've written.

0:34:120:34:17

"To represent the new opinions of the present time,

0:34:170:34:19

"its ambitions and its hopes, there must be a new voice.

0:34:190:34:22

"And for this reason, Public Opinion has appeared."

0:34:220:34:24

-So this is the...

-That's why he started the newspaper.

-Exactly.

0:34:240:34:27

It was strange, because as much as he was a quiet man,

0:34:270:34:30

-he was always inside, from my mother, I always knew he had strong views and strong opinions.

-Hm-mm.

0:34:300:34:35

So while he wasn't outside playing football with me,

0:34:350:34:38

that's why I thought he was boring,

0:34:380:34:40

I knew that he was a very strong-minded man.

0:34:400:34:43

Why don't you take a look at the headline here?

0:34:430:34:46

"34 strikers hurt, 60 arrested in clash with police in St Thomas."

0:34:480:34:53

-So this is January 1938.

-OK.

0:34:530:34:55

1938 is especially important in Jamaica

0:34:550:34:59

as this year in which there are all of these labour uprisings.

0:34:590:35:02

We have them spreading throughout the island.

0:35:020:35:04

"1,000 labourers halt Tate & Lyle in Westmoreland."

0:35:040:35:07

So Jamaica's still a crown colony under British rule,

0:35:070:35:10

a place where there's a lot of poverty and inequality,

0:35:100:35:12

and 100 years after the abolition of slavery,

0:35:120:35:15

many Jamaicans are still living on the same estates

0:35:150:35:18

their ancestors lived on as slaves,

0:35:180:35:20

they're working for below living wages,

0:35:200:35:23

-so this is going on at the beginning of 1938.

-OK.

0:35:230:35:26

'Just 100 years ago, Great Britain abolished slavery.

0:35:260:35:30

'Today, the Jamaican Negro is a happy, enlightened law-abiding citizen,

0:35:300:35:34

'loyal to his government, of which he is very proud.'

0:35:340:35:37

But Frank Hill was all too aware that the reality for Jamaicans

0:35:390:35:43

was very different from that portrayed by newsreel at the time.

0:35:430:35:47

The production of sugar cane

0:35:470:35:49

was an essential part of Jamaica's economy,

0:35:490:35:52

but in the late 1930s, world markets were depressed,

0:35:520:35:55

unemployment was rife and wages were low.

0:35:550:35:59

The workforce began a series of strikes.

0:35:590:36:03

Hundreds were arrested and at least 12 people killed.

0:36:030:36:07

What initially started as a strike at one sugar factory

0:36:070:36:12

soon became an uprising across the island,

0:36:120:36:14

as witnessed at first hand by Frank Hill.

0:36:140:36:17

This is Frank being interviewed later in the 1970s,

0:36:210:36:23

talking about 1938.

0:36:230:36:25

"Arthur Kitchin interview with Frank Hill.

0:36:250:36:27

"The breaking of the storm in 1938

0:36:270:36:29

"to those of us who were involved in it,

0:36:290:36:32

"was so close that we hardly saw the woods because of the trees,

0:36:320:36:34

"so although I remember covering for the Jamaica Standard rioting in front of the Coronation Market,

0:36:340:36:39

"and running for cover from police bullets coming down the lane,

0:36:390:36:42

"actually, the social significance never fully broke over us until two months later."

0:36:420:36:46

So Frank is a journalist in this time period

0:36:460:36:49

and one of the things he's doing is he's covering these riots.

0:36:490:36:52

It seems there are two passions he has at this part of his life.

0:36:520:36:55

-On the one hand, he really wants to be a writer, you know, an artist in some way.

-Yeah.

0:36:550:36:59

Then the other thing is that he has the social conscious,

0:36:590:37:02

that he really wants to help the people who are suffering in Jamaica.

0:37:020:37:06

And so that brings us to the Ward Theatre.

0:37:060:37:08

So you can take a look at this headline.

0:37:100:37:12

"Upheaval has much merit as dramatic work.

0:37:130:37:17

"Frank Hill's play opens at Ward Theatre. Standard of acting, high."

0:37:170:37:21

So this is July of 1939

0:37:210:37:23

and this is Frank having a play performed here in the Ward Theatre

0:37:230:37:26

and here's a description in the review in the Gleaner of that play.

0:37:260:37:30

"Whatever one may think about the labour problems propounded in Frank Hill's Upheaval,

0:37:300:37:34

"there can be only one opinion about the play itself

0:37:340:37:37

"and that is it is extremely well written and well balanced.

0:37:370:37:40

"Produced and acted as it was on Saturday night when it opened at the Ward Theatre,

0:37:400:37:44

"it's without question the most outstanding all-Jamaican play ever."

0:37:440:37:47

So it's based on the events of the riots of 1938

0:37:470:37:51

and the people coming to see the play probably are a fairly well educated,

0:37:510:37:55

middle-class audience, so he's translating

0:37:550:37:57

-what's happening in these riots for this audience.

-Right.

0:37:570:38:01

It seems like seeking to build sympathy for the strikers,

0:38:010:38:05

having people see them as having legitimate demands

0:38:050:38:08

and Upheaval is one of the ways he does that.

0:38:080:38:10

So you can see this description of him in the play.

0:38:100:38:14

"But the most dramatic bit of acting of the entire play was by the playwright himself.

0:38:140:38:18

"Frank Hill played the part of Brattle the Obeah man,

0:38:180:38:22

"and the scene where he interpreted the Almighty's will on Mrs Gordon

0:38:220:38:26

"ranks as one of the best pieces of acting seen locally."

0:38:260:38:29

What do you think of the part that he chooses to cast for himself?

0:38:290:38:32

If people know what an Obeah man is, it would be the voodoo witch doctor.

0:38:320:38:35

Mmm-hmm. In playing it,

0:38:350:38:37

we have to imagine that he must be humanising this character.

0:38:370:38:40

Again, this sort of lower-class, rural Jamaican character

0:38:400:38:43

who he is making more human for this audience.

0:38:430:38:46

Yeah. It's also to do with, as it says here,

0:38:460:38:49

the interpretation of the Almighty's will on Mrs Gordon.

0:38:490:38:52

Obviously, at that particular time, um,

0:38:520:38:54

and even before that, people felt that, er, the manifest destiny

0:38:540:38:57

-of a certain group of people was God's will.

-Mm-hm.

0:38:570:39:00

And unfortunately, if you were black,

0:39:000:39:02

it was God's will to put you at the bottom.

0:39:020:39:04

So he's challenging those ideas of the Almighty's will. I wish I could have seen it...

0:39:040:39:07

-Yeah, exactly.

-..to see exactly what he was...how he interpreted it,

0:39:070:39:11

-but I can imagine.

-It would be great to be able to see that.

0:39:110:39:14

And imagine having it staged here, in the theatre here.

0:39:140:39:18

Throughout its history, from the opening production of Pirates Of Penzance in 1912

0:39:240:39:29

to Frank's play Upheaval in 1939,

0:39:290:39:33

the Ward Theatre has been a barometer of Jamaica's political life.

0:39:330:39:36

Sadly, after the destruction wrought by two hurricanes,

0:39:400:39:44

it now lies abandoned and awaiting restoration.

0:39:440:39:47

All of this is building up to this event that's the other reason

0:39:480:39:51

we're here in the Ward Theatre, which is here in the Gleaner, so...

0:39:510:39:55

"Theatre packed at launching of People's Party.

0:39:550:39:58

"Mr NW Manley and Sir Stafford Cripps

0:39:580:40:01

"keep great audience enthralled for hours."

0:40:010:40:04

OK. So this is the launching of the People's National Party here in the Ward Theatre.

0:40:040:40:08

This is the party that moves Jamaica towards independence,

0:40:080:40:12

and, of course, at this launch we have Stafford Cripps,

0:40:120:40:16

-who was one of the people that you learned about, I guess, in 1942, right?

-That's right,

0:40:160:40:21

who helped to get the Four Hs released.

0:40:210:40:23

-This is where Cripps gets first involved...

-Probably where he met him.

0:40:230:40:26

..with the PNP, and then we have, of course,

0:40:260:40:29

the big star of the event, Norman Manley, right.

0:40:290:40:32

Manley is this very charismatic, very smart political figure,

0:40:320:40:36

but the public opinion folks, they're the ones

0:40:360:40:39

who are the kind of intellectual framework of what's going to be the party.

0:40:390:40:43

So Frank is basically one of the thinkers

0:40:430:40:46

who was really behind the People's National Party

0:40:460:40:48

and the launch of the party.

0:40:480:40:51

The leader of the People's National Party,

0:40:510:40:54

launched that night in the Ward Theatre,

0:40:540:40:57

was the young and charismatic lawyer, Norman Washington Manley.

0:40:570:41:02

Of mixed-race origin,

0:41:020:41:03

his grandmother was descended from slaves,

0:41:030:41:06

Norman Manley was Oxford educated and spent much of his time

0:41:060:41:10

defending workers caught up in the uprising.

0:41:100:41:13

Under Manley's leadership, Frank would play a key role

0:41:140:41:18

recruiting grass-roots membership for the party.

0:41:180:41:21

As 1938 ends, he becomes even more involved in labour organising.

0:41:220:41:27

So that's where he's devoting his energy. Here's another part of that interview.

0:41:270:41:31

-The Arthur Kitchin interview?

-Mm-hm.

-Yeah.

0:41:310:41:33

"So the party was formed and there was tremendous enthusiasm

0:41:330:41:36

"among young people like myself and Ken, my brother,

0:41:360:41:38

"Richard Hart and older heads like Arthur Henry,

0:41:380:41:42

"and we threw ourselves into the work of organising the party.

0:41:420:41:44

"We had an excellent arrangement with Manley in those days.

0:41:440:41:47

"He gave up his car for the weekend, he gave us his driver,

0:41:470:41:51

"and about six of us would go out and talk to working-class audiences,

0:41:510:41:54

"specifically working-class audiences. Our message was social reform,

0:41:540:41:57

"or self-government based on social reform."

0:41:570:42:00

He's now out meeting with workers,

0:42:000:42:02

trying to get them organised into unions,

0:42:020:42:03

but also trying to get them organised into the People's National Party.

0:42:030:42:07

So he's doing a lot of the practical matter of building the party

0:42:070:42:10

and creating popularity and support for it.

0:42:100:42:12

This fledgling political and trades union movement had great success

0:42:190:42:24

in recruiting members from the island's poor workers.

0:42:240:42:27

By the early 1940s, the PNP, as well as a number of trades unions,

0:42:280:42:33

were openly challenging the status quo,

0:42:330:42:36

leading to the Governor's imprisonment of the Four Hs.

0:42:360:42:39

But by jailing them, the Governor simply made them heroes

0:42:410:42:44

of a movement that was becoming unstoppable.

0:42:440:42:47

In 1944, two years after the Four Hs' imprisonment,

0:42:500:42:56

all Jamaicans were granted the right to vote.

0:42:560:42:59

Later, though, when Frank and his comrades

0:42:590:43:02

should have been reaping the reward of their sacrifice,

0:43:020:43:05

events took a shocking turn.

0:43:050:43:07

If we go ahead to the 1950s, we have these headlines from 1952.

0:43:110:43:17

"Secret communist group led by Hills, Hart, Henry, tribunal finds.

0:43:200:43:25

"Quit-party call on the Four Hs."

0:43:250:43:27

Yeah, so, Frank is one of the founding members of the PNP

0:43:270:43:30

and then this is 10 years later...

0:43:300:43:33

-Mm-mm.

-We see that he's being asked to leave the party.

0:43:330:43:36

I don't know if you know anything about these headlines.

0:43:360:43:39

And this is when there was a lot of scaremongering with communism

0:43:390:43:43

going ahead in the '50s, but, um, I don't know the dynamics of it.

0:43:430:43:46

-OK.

-Um, so we'll have to find that out.

0:43:460:43:49

Yeah. So you probably will need to talk to somebody, you know,

0:43:490:43:52

-who works on the PNP in this time period who could tell you more.

-OK.

0:43:520:43:56

Well, it's the perception you have of people, and I should have known better,

0:44:070:44:11

because people have a lot of misconceptions about me and about all kinds of things,

0:44:110:44:15

and the perception - misconception shall I say? - of Frank is, erm,

0:44:150:44:18

getting much more interesting by the minute.

0:44:180:44:21

Here we can see Frank being a playwright

0:44:230:44:25

and I knew that he was actively involved in the PNP,

0:44:250:44:28

I didn't know he was so heavily involved in forming the PNP.

0:44:280:44:31

Um...he's getting to be very intriguing, Frank.

0:44:310:44:35

The PNP is currently the ruling party in Jamaica.

0:44:540:44:57

John has come to their headquarters to meet Prof Trevor Munroe,

0:44:580:45:01

who, he hopes, can shed further light

0:45:010:45:04

on his grandfather's expulsion in 1952.

0:45:040:45:07

Hello, sir. I'm John. How do you do?

0:45:090:45:10

Good to meet you, John. I'm Trevor Munroe. Welcome.

0:45:100:45:13

-Nice to meet you. Thank you.

-Please.

-Thank you.

-Come right in.

0:45:130:45:16

Well, Trevor, yesterday I learnt that the Four Hs

0:45:170:45:20

had been asked to quit the party,

0:45:200:45:22

and I know nothing about the dynamics

0:45:220:45:25

of how that came about or why that happened.

0:45:250:45:27

Between 1942 and the end of the '40s,

0:45:270:45:32

the challenge that the PNP faced was taken up by Frank and Ken

0:45:320:45:38

and the two Hs, to give the party roots.

0:45:380:45:41

And, quite interestingly, that group, they were left-wing people,

0:45:410:45:46

socialists, and what eventually happened as the '40s progressed

0:45:460:45:50

and as the left grew in influence amongst the workers

0:45:500:45:54

and brought the workers into the PNP, the right became very worried.

0:45:540:45:59

-The right of the PNP?

-The right of the PNP because...

0:45:590:46:01

-Right, so the same party but...

-Exactly.

-OK.

0:46:010:46:03

And then, of course, to complicate matters, the Cold War then really began.

0:46:030:46:08

After World War II, the fragile alliance between the West, led by the United States,

0:46:150:46:21

and the communist world, led by the Soviet Union,

0:46:210:46:25

began to disintegrate.

0:46:250:46:27

Tensions increased as both sides

0:46:270:46:30

armed themselves with atomic weapons.

0:46:300:46:33

With waning powers, Britain feared communist revolution in the colonies,

0:46:350:46:40

while in America, people like Senator Joseph McCarthy

0:46:400:46:45

hunted communists closer to home.

0:46:450:46:47

In Jamaica, the leader of the PNP, Norman Manley, was facing pressure

0:46:470:46:52

to hunt for his own "Reds under the bed".

0:46:520:46:56

The Americans who have influence

0:46:560:46:58

with the Caribbean and Central America

0:46:580:47:01

were becoming very concerned that pro-Soviet sympathies

0:47:010:47:05

were becoming too strong in many of the Caribbean colonies,

0:47:050:47:08

and therefore that would have been signalling to Manley,

0:47:080:47:11

"I not only have to face the right internally,

0:47:110:47:14

"but I'm going to have to face external pressures from the US,

0:47:140:47:19

"and that's something more than I can manage."

0:47:190:47:21

And hence, when the charge was made by the right

0:47:210:47:27

that the left were really not PNP,

0:47:270:47:30

in fact were communists in disguise,

0:47:300:47:34

that charge, um, resonated.

0:47:340:47:37

In early 1952, a PNP tribunal heard accusations made against the Four Hs,

0:47:420:47:49

including John's grandfather, Frank Hill.

0:47:490:47:53

Norman Manley then published the findings

0:47:530:47:56

in a newsletter to party members.

0:47:560:47:58

He says here,

0:48:000:48:02

"The charges of which these party members have been found guilty

0:48:020:48:06

"is that they sought to set up a secret group within the party

0:48:060:48:09

"pledged to political aims not those of the party,

0:48:090:48:12

"and to teach others to subscribe to these aims.

0:48:120:48:16

"On evidence which I and all the other members of the tribunal

0:48:160:48:20

"found overwhelming, we reached a decision

0:48:200:48:22

"whereby Ken Hill, Frank Hill,

0:48:220:48:25

"Richard Hart and Arthur Henry have all been called upon

0:48:250:48:28

"to resign their membership or face expulsion."

0:48:280:48:32

So that's basically what he regarded as charges that were proven.

0:48:320:48:36

-They're becoming communists.

-These are external PNP...

0:48:360:48:39

-They were becoming...

-..but internal communists.

0:48:390:48:41

-Inside communism.

-Not to be trusted,

0:48:410:48:43

because even though they're doing all this wonderful work

0:48:430:48:45

and the party would never be where it was without them...

0:48:450:48:49

Yeah.

0:48:490:48:50

..we can't really trust them because they really have a large allegiance.

0:48:500:48:55

And so, to be fair to Norman Manley,

0:48:550:48:58

he was also very distressed, because he had a considerable liking

0:48:580:49:02

for the energy and the commitment and the work that had been done.

0:49:020:49:06

Well, going up to see Rachel Manley, who is Norman Manley's granddaughter.

0:49:160:49:20

She will have more of an idea as to the ins and outs.

0:49:200:49:24

I've learnt about the split in the party

0:49:240:49:26

between, obviously, the right wing and the left wing,

0:49:260:49:28

and I know that the Four Hs, my grandfather would have been really a man of the people

0:49:280:49:33

and wanted to help the workers,

0:49:330:49:34

which really wasn't necessarily the agenda of the right,

0:49:340:49:38

who were more capitalist, so maybe she can tell me a little bit more about Frank.

0:49:380:49:42

Rachel was brought up by her grandparents,

0:49:520:49:54

Norman and Edna Manley.

0:49:540:49:57

She has agreed to meet John at the old family cabin,

0:49:570:50:00

high in the mountains overlooking Kingston.

0:50:000:50:02

Nice to see you.

0:50:040:50:05

How are you? Welcome. Welcome.

0:50:050:50:08

I was at the PNP headquarters trying to find out a little bit more

0:50:090:50:12

about my grandfather Frank and the Four Hs

0:50:120:50:15

-after their being asked to leave the party.

-Yeah.

0:50:150:50:18

But of course, you will know a little bit more about the dynamics of it.

0:50:180:50:22

It was an interesting time

0:50:220:50:25

because you really have once in the history of any country

0:50:250:50:29

where they are going to be fighting for self-determination.

0:50:290:50:33

So you're dealing with completely idealistic people.

0:50:330:50:37

But you are dealing with the whole McCarthy era,

0:50:370:50:41

the suspicion about communism.

0:50:410:50:43

And they were basically trying, at that stage, to convince England

0:50:430:50:48

to give us not independence but levels of internal self-government.

0:50:480:50:54

And Trevor was saying at that particular time,

0:50:540:50:56

the external pressures, the McCarthy era

0:50:560:50:58

-and people worrying about communism.

-McCarthy...

0:50:580:51:00

-..rather than the inner pressures from the Right...

-Yeah.

0:51:000:51:03

-..but outer pressure from America and England.

-England. But think of England.

0:51:030:51:07

Are England going to give up, um, their dominance,

0:51:070:51:12

their colonial Empire for people who they feel

0:51:120:51:15

are going to end up being communists?

0:51:150:51:18

What people I think don't know

0:51:180:51:21

was, I think, the deep heartbreak of my grandfather,

0:51:210:51:25

was that he had this split party.

0:51:250:51:28

I think it affected him.

0:51:280:51:30

And that's borne out by the fact he remained friends with these men,

0:51:300:51:33

particularly your grandfather, who I saw often.

0:51:330:51:37

He...he used to bring me a sweet which took forever to suck...

0:51:370:51:43

-Yeah.

-..and I think it was cos I chatted so much, he figured if he kept me quiet with his sweets,

0:51:430:51:48

-he'd get a chance to talk to my grandparents, you know.

-Yeah. Yeah.

0:51:480:51:51

Through the years, it is Frank who would keep returning to our home

0:51:510:51:56

and the friendship, personally, was not interrupted to any great degree.

0:51:560:52:01

By the time Jamaica gained independence from Britain

0:52:050:52:09

on August 6th 1962, Frank had been marginalised,

0:52:090:52:15

and Norman Manley was destined never to become Prime Minister.

0:52:150:52:19

Manley's cousin, Alexander Bustamante

0:52:200:52:24

of the rival Jamaican Labour Party,

0:52:240:52:26

won the election by the narrowest of margins.

0:52:260:52:29

And his party would hold power for the next ten years.

0:52:290:52:33

Norman Manley was forced to retire in 1968 due to ill health

0:52:340:52:39

and died the following year.

0:52:390:52:41

After their expulsion, Frank returned to journalism.

0:52:420:52:46

Ken was eventually readmitted back to the PNP in 1968.

0:52:460:52:51

Arthur Henry continued as a trades union leader

0:52:510:52:53

right up until his death in 1966.

0:52:530:52:56

Richard Hart became an noted writer, before moving to England.

0:52:580:53:02

As this journey's going on, I'm finding out

0:53:050:53:08

that he's a little bit more dynamic than I thought he was.

0:53:080:53:11

Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely.

0:53:110:53:14

I think your grandfather had a certain amount of heartbreak.

0:53:140:53:18

I have an entry in my grandmother's diaries which may really surprise you.

0:53:180:53:24

Here we are.

0:53:260:53:27

-August 1968...

-"Norman. August 1968,

0:53:290:53:31

"and Norman had been ill and we were visiting for a quiet moment

0:53:310:53:34

"on the patio at about 9 pm, before he went back to bed,

0:53:340:53:37

"when suddenly car lights flashed

0:53:370:53:39

"and Frank Hill called out, 'What about the dog?

0:53:390:53:42

" 'I'm terrified of dogs.' "

0:53:420:53:44

Sounds like Frank!

0:53:440:53:45

"I went out and got him out of the car

0:53:450:53:48

"and as I put my arm around him, I felt him skeleton thin.

0:53:480:53:50

" 'How's Norman? I want to see Norman.'

0:53:500:53:52

"We went in and he put his arms around Norman and said,

0:53:520:53:55

" 'I've come to apologise for what I said at Pine Grove,

0:53:550:53:57

" 'that you were wrong to retire.

0:53:570:53:59

" 'Since you've been ill, I've been regretting it ever since.'

0:53:590:54:01

"And he put his arms around Norman and kissed him three times

0:54:010:54:04

"and said, 'Rest well and get well. We need you.'

0:54:040:54:07

"He stopped at the car door and said, 'You know what I should have done?

0:54:070:54:10

" 'Long ago I should have done it. I should have shot Richard.

0:54:100:54:13

" 'Yes, I should have shot Richard and nothing would have gone wrong.'

0:54:130:54:17

"I said, 'Frank, don't think of those things, my dear, just keep well.'

0:54:170:54:20

"He drove off and Norman said,

0:54:200:54:22

" 'Frank was in a very emotional mood, wasn't he?'

0:54:220:54:25

"And I said, 'Yes, come to bed, you look all-in tired.' "

0:54:250:54:28

He didn't mean literally that he should have shot Richard with a gun.

0:54:280:54:32

You know, you have to realise, John, it was just how the politics fell.

0:54:320:54:37

-Yeah.

-You know? You should be very proud.

0:54:370:54:41

-I am very proud.

-Yeah.

0:54:410:54:42

This would make a very interesting political thriller

0:54:580:55:01

because it's a critical time in Jamaica's history

0:55:010:55:04

in terms of, er, self-determination, independence.

0:55:040:55:07

You have a group of four people

0:55:070:55:09

who would feel that they're fundamental to that,

0:55:090:55:12

going through so much self-sacrifice for the country,

0:55:120:55:16

and then ten years later, being asked to leave the party

0:55:160:55:19

by probably the most charismatic man, who is a good friend of theirs.

0:55:190:55:23

I'll tell you what it makes me think of.

0:55:230:55:26

I did an interview with Nelson Mandela many years ago,

0:55:260:55:30

and in the conversation I was talking about the change in South Africa.

0:55:300:55:33

And what he said was, "Many good men, better than me, have not lived to see this day."

0:55:330:55:37

He says there were people greater than him

0:55:380:55:41

who were more influential in the change

0:55:410:55:43

that weren't around to see that day.

0:55:430:55:45

And I suppose a lot of people may view the fact

0:55:450:55:48

that Frank and Ken and the other two Hs

0:55:480:55:50

were probably more influential in the change

0:55:500:55:53

but they weren't around to benefit from it.

0:55:530:55:56

After a long career as a newspaper journalist and noted radio broadcaster,

0:56:120:56:17

Frank Hill died on June 8th 1980 aged 69.

0:56:170:56:22

By that time, John had left Jamaica

0:56:240:56:27

to pursue his dream of playing professional football.

0:56:270:56:31

The two gentlemen who we've seen, Frank and Stephen, I can see myself,

0:56:530:56:58

in terms of my character, in both of them.

0:56:580:57:02

More surprised about Frank than Stephen,

0:57:020:57:05

'because he's not the person I thought he was.

0:57:050:57:08

'How instrumental he was and how involved he was with the PNP,

0:57:080:57:11

'that came as a surprise to me.

0:57:110:57:13

'I always knew him as a feeble old man by a typewriter.

0:57:130:57:16

'So learning about him

0:57:180:57:20

'was probably the most revealing and surprising aspect of it.

0:57:200:57:24

'Because of my father's sporting prowess,

0:57:270:57:30

'I've always felt that I'm a Barnes, that I'm my father's son.

0:57:300:57:34

'Sad as it is for me to say it,'

0:57:340:57:36

I have never really looked up to the Hill men, if you like.

0:57:360:57:39

You know, my mother's brothers and grandpa and all the Hills that I know

0:57:390:57:43

aren't my type of men, if you know what I mean, whereas my father was.

0:57:430:57:46

'From a character point of view,

0:57:480:57:50

'growing up with my cousins, aunts and everyone,

0:57:500:57:54

'there was a lot of noise, a lot of arguments,

0:57:540:57:58

'and I suppose from that part of my character,

0:57:580:58:02

'as much as I would like to deny it, that comes from that side,

0:58:020:58:05

'and looking at Frank and Stephen,

0:58:050:58:07

'I think that I really am a Hill in all but name.'

0:58:070:58:10

I'm finally admitting it.

0:58:120:58:13

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