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MUSIC: Let's Twist Again | 0:00:00 | 0:00:02 | |
# ..let me know you love me so again | 0:00:02 | 0:00:06 | |
# Come on, let's twist again | 0:00:06 | 0:00:09 | |
# Like we did last summer | 0:00:09 | 0:00:12 | |
# Come on let's twist again | 0:00:12 | 0:00:15 | |
# Like we did last year | 0:00:15 | 0:00:18 | |
-# -Oh, baby, up and down and round and round we go... -# | 0:00:18 | 0:00:23 | |
The people of West Hartlepool, they're very friendly people. | 0:00:23 | 0:00:27 | |
They've a fine spirit. | 0:00:28 | 0:00:30 | |
They get together, enjoy themselves. | 0:00:30 | 0:00:33 | |
# Like we did last summer... # | 0:00:34 | 0:00:36 | |
The town is not a new town. | 0:00:44 | 0:00:45 | |
But it has all the amenities we want. | 0:00:45 | 0:00:48 | |
But we also have our black spots, like anywhere else. | 0:00:48 | 0:00:51 | |
There's been slum clearance. | 0:00:51 | 0:00:54 | |
But we also have our good spots, | 0:00:59 | 0:01:01 | |
like the estates - well planned, well laid-out estates, fine schools. | 0:01:01 | 0:01:07 | |
And a very good community spirit among the people. | 0:01:07 | 0:01:10 | |
But in the past we've always relied upon the engineering industry, | 0:01:10 | 0:01:15 | |
steel and ship-building. | 0:01:15 | 0:01:18 | |
In ship-building, we've some of the finest craftsmen in the country. | 0:01:18 | 0:01:23 | |
The local shipyard won the blue riband for the most number of ships built, in the past. | 0:01:34 | 0:01:39 | |
And these people are really grand workers. | 0:01:40 | 0:01:43 | |
They stick together, work together, live together. | 0:01:45 | 0:01:49 | |
When unemployment came, | 0:01:51 | 0:01:53 | |
you found all these people, just left hanging in mid-air. | 0:01:53 | 0:01:57 | |
STRAINS OF "RULE, BRITANNIA" | 0:02:13 | 0:02:17 | |
It used to be a busy yard, | 0:02:34 | 0:02:36 | |
throbbing with life and vigour. | 0:02:36 | 0:02:39 | |
But now there are only idle berths, | 0:02:39 | 0:02:41 | |
idle machines and idle men. | 0:02:41 | 0:02:43 | |
It was a big shock. | 0:02:43 | 0:02:45 | |
When you work years at a place and suddenly see your livelihood going, | 0:02:45 | 0:02:50 | |
it is a real shock. | 0:02:50 | 0:02:52 | |
I mean, it's a little bit indescribable. | 0:02:54 | 0:02:57 | |
It sort of knocks you for six, if we can put it that way. | 0:02:57 | 0:03:00 | |
Had you and your wife been worried about the possibility of this? | 0:03:00 | 0:03:04 | |
Well, from previous rumours, we had discussed the situation, | 0:03:04 | 0:03:10 | |
but of course we just hoped that things would turn brighter | 0:03:10 | 0:03:15 | |
and be able to carry on - that the firm would carry on. | 0:03:15 | 0:03:19 | |
But it didn't just turn out that way. | 0:03:19 | 0:03:22 | |
Were you optimistic about getting another job? | 0:03:23 | 0:03:26 | |
Well, at first, we all live in hope | 0:03:26 | 0:03:29 | |
and I was one of them, being an optimist, | 0:03:29 | 0:03:32 | |
and I had hoped that things would come the right way. | 0:03:32 | 0:03:38 | |
But as time goes on, | 0:03:38 | 0:03:41 | |
well, hope gradually fades away. | 0:03:41 | 0:03:43 | |
And when you see the number of people that's out of work in this area, | 0:03:43 | 0:03:48 | |
well, it just about finishes it off altogether! | 0:03:48 | 0:03:53 | |
For the unemployed, the Labour Exchange becomes a focal point. | 0:03:53 | 0:03:57 | |
It draws together the 3,660 people in West Hartlepool | 0:03:57 | 0:04:01 | |
who are waiting for work. | 0:04:01 | 0:04:03 | |
Signing on at the Exchange replaces clocking on at factory or shipyard. | 0:04:03 | 0:04:08 | |
It's a ritual to be observed twice a week, every week. | 0:04:08 | 0:04:13 | |
And one which ensures a basic income. | 0:04:13 | 0:04:15 | |
To one in nine of the town's working population, | 0:04:15 | 0:04:18 | |
the Labour Exchange is now a source of funds, a source of hope, | 0:04:18 | 0:04:24 | |
and a source of disappointment. | 0:04:24 | 0:04:26 | |
For every vacant job, there are more than 40 applicants. | 0:04:26 | 0:04:30 | |
Despite this, many still wait optimistically | 0:04:30 | 0:04:33 | |
for news of a vacancy from manager, Miss Saville. | 0:04:33 | 0:04:36 | |
They're optimistic, but in the light of the last few months, | 0:04:36 | 0:04:39 | |
it's difficult for them to sustain it. | 0:04:39 | 0:04:42 | |
What do you do when you have a few jobs? Do you offer them to everyone or just a lucky few? | 0:04:42 | 0:04:46 | |
No, we try to give as many of them an opportunity of being interviewed as possible. | 0:04:46 | 0:04:51 | |
But we have the interests of the employer to consider. | 0:04:51 | 0:04:54 | |
So we try to select half a dozen, depending on the number of jobs, | 0:04:54 | 0:04:58 | |
of the most suitable people. | 0:04:58 | 0:05:00 | |
But we do try to give them all a turn. | 0:05:00 | 0:05:03 | |
Many unemployed people have told me that queuing for the dole is a humiliating experience. | 0:05:03 | 0:05:08 | |
Is there any way you can cut down the length of waiting for the dole? | 0:05:08 | 0:05:12 | |
I think we do really cut it down as far as we can. | 0:05:12 | 0:05:16 | |
We have a timing system where we use the whole of the day by quarters of an hour. | 0:05:16 | 0:05:21 | |
We try to time as many into each quarter as we can deal with | 0:05:21 | 0:05:25 | |
and no more than we can deal with. | 0:05:25 | 0:05:27 | |
And we use two days of the week instead of one, which we'd use in normal circumstances. | 0:05:27 | 0:05:32 | |
We pay both on Thursdays and Fridays. | 0:05:32 | 0:05:35 | |
Is there any way you can improve the amenities of people who have to wait? | 0:05:35 | 0:05:39 | |
Well, no. I've got the building that was built for the job. | 0:05:39 | 0:05:42 | |
But if the numbers should get too much, of course, I'd take an outhouse and use that. | 0:05:42 | 0:05:47 | |
Aren't you able to put seats or chairs or pictures in the building? | 0:05:47 | 0:05:51 | |
Well, we have some seats, as many as we think will be used, | 0:05:51 | 0:05:56 | |
but our object is not to keep people waiting, it's to get them out. | 0:05:56 | 0:06:00 | |
Not only manual workers are unemployed in West Hartlepool. | 0:06:00 | 0:06:03 | |
Brian West is a white-collar worker. | 0:06:03 | 0:06:06 | |
He was a booking clerk in a local factory. | 0:06:06 | 0:06:08 | |
Well, I studied two years at a commercial school. | 0:06:15 | 0:06:19 | |
I wrote shorthand - I can still write shorthand - at 180 words a minute. | 0:06:19 | 0:06:23 | |
I can type at about 45. | 0:06:23 | 0:06:25 | |
I've got advanced bookkeeping. | 0:06:25 | 0:06:28 | |
I did a course of business management. | 0:06:28 | 0:06:30 | |
And I passed the Royal Air Force education test when I was in the RAF. | 0:06:30 | 0:06:35 | |
He hasn't used any of these skills for eight months. | 0:06:35 | 0:06:38 | |
His qualifications are value-less assets when there are no jobs available. | 0:06:38 | 0:06:43 | |
But he has acquired a new skill since losing his job. | 0:06:43 | 0:06:47 | |
The household chores are his responsibility | 0:06:47 | 0:06:49 | |
while his wife is out working. | 0:06:49 | 0:06:51 | |
She assumes her husband's role of wage earner while he becomes housewife. | 0:06:51 | 0:06:56 | |
Washing, ironing, cooking, caring for the children. | 0:06:56 | 0:07:00 | |
I have to do all that myself. | 0:07:00 | 0:07:02 | |
I start of a morning by dressing them, feeding them breakfast, | 0:07:02 | 0:07:06 | |
and at lunchtime, but my wife does help to get them ready for bed. | 0:07:06 | 0:07:11 | |
-Who decides on your budget? -Well, I've got to do the shopping. I have to spread out the money, | 0:07:11 | 0:07:16 | |
the little bit of money we have, on food. | 0:07:16 | 0:07:20 | |
But otherwise my wife does more or less tell me what to get in, | 0:07:20 | 0:07:25 | |
et cetera, each day. | 0:07:25 | 0:07:26 | |
I do the shopping from day to day, not weekly. | 0:07:26 | 0:07:30 | |
What little luxuries you can afford, say drink and tobacco, if you smoke, | 0:07:30 | 0:07:34 | |
who decides on how much is allocated for things like that? | 0:07:34 | 0:07:38 | |
Well, we both decide that together. We don't drink and we can't get out. | 0:07:38 | 0:07:42 | |
We can't afford luxuries. | 0:07:42 | 0:07:44 | |
We do smoke a little bit, but it is very few. | 0:07:44 | 0:07:48 | |
How do the children react to you being mum, as it were? | 0:07:48 | 0:07:50 | |
They were very strange to me at first. | 0:07:50 | 0:07:53 | |
But they've gradually come used to me and they look forward to their mother coming in from work. | 0:07:53 | 0:07:58 | |
How far does it embarrass you that your friends know that you're the acting housewife? | 0:07:58 | 0:08:03 | |
It is an embarrassment having to run over and do all the messages and so on. | 0:08:03 | 0:08:07 | |
They often say to me, "How do you manage?" and so on. | 0:08:07 | 0:08:10 | |
But I just have to put up with it. We do the best we can. | 0:08:10 | 0:08:14 | |
Mrs West, do you like working, love? | 0:08:14 | 0:08:16 | |
Yes, I do, but of course I'd rather be at home, and my husband having a job. | 0:08:16 | 0:08:21 | |
Do you feel more independent now that you're working? | 0:08:21 | 0:08:25 | |
Well, I don't, really, you know. | 0:08:25 | 0:08:27 | |
Because I think it's up to a husband to go out to work, you know. | 0:08:27 | 0:08:33 | |
For him to have a job and go to work. | 0:08:33 | 0:08:35 | |
If your husband got a job, would you stop working? | 0:08:35 | 0:08:38 | |
Well, if it was a really good job with good pay, I would. | 0:08:38 | 0:08:43 | |
But really I would rather work on for about six months or so, | 0:08:43 | 0:08:48 | |
just to get a bit of money behind us. | 0:08:48 | 0:08:50 | |
How has the attitude of the children changed to you while you're at work? | 0:08:50 | 0:08:54 | |
-Has it changed? -I don't think so, not really. | 0:08:54 | 0:08:57 | |
But at first they were a bit upset. They missed me. | 0:08:57 | 0:09:01 | |
As soon as I got in the door they were straight up, faces lit up. | 0:09:01 | 0:09:05 | |
"Oh, Mum, I'm glad to see you", and all this. | 0:09:05 | 0:09:09 | |
-# -Well do I remember | 0:09:09 | 0:09:12 | |
-# -The day that you... -# | 0:09:12 | 0:09:15 | |
Despite unemployment, the vigorous gaiety of social life in West Hartlepool goes on. | 0:09:15 | 0:09:20 | |
But without the unemployed. | 0:09:20 | 0:09:22 | |
None of them go without the necessities of life, | 0:09:22 | 0:09:24 | |
but the dole doesn't provide for luxuries that most people take for granted. | 0:09:24 | 0:09:28 | |
Staying away from the pubs and clubs involves no material hardship. | 0:09:28 | 0:09:32 | |
It's one of the many economies affecting social life | 0:09:32 | 0:09:35 | |
that the unemployed just have to make. | 0:09:35 | 0:09:38 | |
Careful shopping, too, becomes essential | 0:09:41 | 0:09:44 | |
when there's money for little more than necessities. | 0:09:44 | 0:09:47 | |
As a shopkeeper I find the effects of unemployment in West Hartlepool, | 0:09:47 | 0:09:51 | |
it's more the revealing ways. | 0:09:51 | 0:09:54 | |
A customer of mine will come into the shop while he's working | 0:09:54 | 0:09:58 | |
and buy his kiddies a bag of sweets. | 0:09:58 | 0:10:01 | |
Then he seems to disappear for a while, then he arrives back | 0:10:01 | 0:10:05 | |
and instead of buying his usual bag of sweets, perhaps a penny bar of chocolate | 0:10:05 | 0:10:09 | |
just so his children are getting something. | 0:10:09 | 0:10:13 | |
Then you have the lady customer, the wife of the unemployed chap, | 0:10:13 | 0:10:18 | |
she normally comes in and buys one or two women's books and her children's comics. | 0:10:18 | 0:10:23 | |
Then you find that she cuts her books out, and the children still get their comics. | 0:10:23 | 0:10:28 | |
The main effect of unemployment in the town on my business | 0:10:32 | 0:10:39 | |
is that I find that customers try to make their hair last a little longer. | 0:10:39 | 0:10:44 | |
When they do eventually come in, they say, "You'd better make it a bit shorter, Tom," | 0:10:44 | 0:10:49 | |
and I cut it a bit shorter for them. | 0:10:49 | 0:10:51 | |
Sometimes they want it shorter in the neck, thinning out, so it will last longer than usual. | 0:10:51 | 0:10:56 | |
And I get the odd occasion that they're so desperate for a haircut | 0:10:56 | 0:11:00 | |
they go somewhere and get an amateur to do it. | 0:11:00 | 0:11:02 | |
Then they come in with a muffler on and say, "For God's sake, Tom, can you put this right for me?" | 0:11:02 | 0:11:08 | |
There have been occasions when some of the women have been waiting for their husband's pay packet | 0:11:08 | 0:11:13 | |
and they've asked me, "I can't send the lad down till Friday." | 0:11:13 | 0:11:17 | |
I say, "Send him down the early part of the week when I'm not so busy, | 0:11:17 | 0:11:21 | |
"and you can send the coppers down on the Friday." | 0:11:21 | 0:11:23 | |
Then the steelworkers, they stop the mills on a Thursday here. | 0:11:23 | 0:11:27 | |
There's no steelworkers working after a Thursday. | 0:11:27 | 0:11:30 | |
Those chaps used to be regular customers of mine. | 0:11:30 | 0:11:33 | |
Such a lot of them now just put off that extra time and wait longer. | 0:11:33 | 0:11:37 | |
When they come in, they want it to last longer. | 0:11:37 | 0:11:40 | |
I just spoke to the wife the other day. | 0:11:40 | 0:11:43 | |
I said, "If it goes on like this and it continues to go down", | 0:11:43 | 0:11:47 | |
I'll pack in, get a spare-time job and just open the shop at weekends." | 0:11:47 | 0:11:51 | |
A little trimming here and there is not enough to make up the loss of a wage. | 0:11:54 | 0:11:59 | |
For families with children, the problem is meeting needs which remain constant | 0:11:59 | 0:12:03 | |
whether work's available or not. | 0:12:03 | 0:12:06 | |
An unemployed man receives two-fifths of the average wage, | 0:12:06 | 0:12:09 | |
together with family allowances and national assistance when necessary. | 0:12:09 | 0:12:13 | |
What kind of adjustment does he have to make? | 0:12:13 | 0:12:16 | |
I've been unemployed now for four months. | 0:12:16 | 0:12:19 | |
Unemployment pays £6.19. | 0:12:19 | 0:12:23 | |
We get a little bit from public assistance, which is 28 shillings. | 0:12:23 | 0:12:27 | |
And it's pretty difficult to manage with the money we're getting at the moment. | 0:12:27 | 0:12:33 | |
How does it compare with the money you got when you were working? | 0:12:33 | 0:12:36 | |
When I was working? Oh, it's a big drop. Quite a big drop. | 0:12:36 | 0:12:40 | |
I was getting about £20 a week at the job I was working at. | 0:12:40 | 0:12:43 | |
And it's just about £8 seven shillings we're getting coming in at the moment. | 0:12:43 | 0:12:49 | |
It's a vast drop altogether. | 0:12:49 | 0:12:51 | |
Have you got any other sources of income, in addition to the £8, seven? | 0:12:51 | 0:12:56 | |
None at all except we get milk tokens and free dinner for one of the lads that's at school. | 0:12:56 | 0:13:02 | |
That's just about it. | 0:13:02 | 0:13:04 | |
Did you have any savings when you finished work? | 0:13:04 | 0:13:06 | |
Yes, I did have a little bit, but most of that's gone now. | 0:13:06 | 0:13:10 | |
We more or less have to scrape through. | 0:13:11 | 0:13:14 | |
What direct hardship is involved? How does it basically affect you? | 0:13:14 | 0:13:19 | |
Well, I like my... I like a smoke. I used to like to go out for a drink. | 0:13:19 | 0:13:24 | |
I can't go for a drink at all now. | 0:13:24 | 0:13:26 | |
Me and my wife used to go out regularly, two or three times a week. | 0:13:26 | 0:13:30 | |
We can't go out at all now. | 0:13:30 | 0:13:32 | |
And the bairns feel it in a way | 0:13:32 | 0:13:35 | |
because you can't give them ice creams, sweets, things like that. | 0:13:35 | 0:13:39 | |
You can't give them what you'd like to. | 0:13:39 | 0:13:42 | |
Or shoes and things like that. | 0:13:42 | 0:13:43 | |
More or less now they're starting to run out of shoes. | 0:13:43 | 0:13:47 | |
I'll have to buy them some more, but I don't know how I'll manage for the money. | 0:13:47 | 0:13:53 | |
Just have to try. | 0:13:53 | 0:13:54 | |
Do the shoes all go at the same time and clothes and things? | 0:13:54 | 0:13:58 | |
Or do you have separate problems with the four kiddies? | 0:13:58 | 0:14:01 | |
There are separate problems, of course. | 0:14:01 | 0:14:05 | |
But when we buy for one we try to buy for the other. | 0:14:05 | 0:14:08 | |
More or less, it does come in one big heap. | 0:14:08 | 0:14:11 | |
Otherwise there's other little odds and ends | 0:14:11 | 0:14:14 | |
that one of them may need at times. But mostly it comes at one big jump. | 0:14:14 | 0:14:18 | |
Have you reached the stage yet of pawning things? | 0:14:18 | 0:14:21 | |
Pawning things? No. Not as bad as that yet, no. | 0:14:21 | 0:14:24 | |
Apprentices don't have family responsibilities. | 0:14:25 | 0:14:28 | |
But these boys attending a trade union meeting with their fathers are aware of the financial effect. | 0:14:28 | 0:14:34 | |
When I was at work I used to get just under three pound a week. | 0:14:34 | 0:14:37 | |
Now I only get 32 shillings. Pocket money I used to get a pound, now it's five shillings. | 0:14:37 | 0:14:42 | |
When I go to the Boys' Brigade, that cost me tuppence a week. | 0:14:42 | 0:14:45 | |
But night school costs me five shillings a week in bus fares. | 0:14:45 | 0:14:48 | |
On the weekend, I can just go to the football match on an afternoon. | 0:14:48 | 0:14:53 | |
Before, I could afford to go out with two or three pounds in my pocket. | 0:14:53 | 0:14:57 | |
Out with my mates and enjoy myself. | 0:14:57 | 0:14:59 | |
Now it lasts a week I only get a pound pocket money. | 0:14:59 | 0:15:02 | |
Doesn't go very far, that. By the time you go out with the lads, | 0:15:02 | 0:15:06 | |
go for a drink, you come back, you've got four bob to last the rest of the week. | 0:15:06 | 0:15:10 | |
You can't afford cigarettes or women. | 0:15:10 | 0:15:13 | |
You can't go nowhere, really. | 0:15:13 | 0:15:15 | |
A pound pocket money used to last the week. But I only get about five shillings now. | 0:15:15 | 0:15:20 | |
It doesn't go anywhere. I've lost interest in work now. | 0:15:20 | 0:15:23 | |
You have to think about what you're going to do now for a career. | 0:15:23 | 0:15:28 | |
Why have you lost interest in work? | 0:15:28 | 0:15:31 | |
I've been on the dole a month. It doesn't seem I'll get a job now. | 0:15:31 | 0:15:35 | |
You get fed up sitting in the house reading books. | 0:15:35 | 0:15:38 | |
When it comes to night time, you're sat watching telly. | 0:15:38 | 0:15:42 | |
When you were at work, you were occupied, you know? | 0:15:42 | 0:15:45 | |
You had something to do at work. | 0:15:45 | 0:15:47 | |
When you came home, watched telly, you'd like it. | 0:15:47 | 0:15:50 | |
But when you're just sat in the house all day, telly comes on at night, you don't want to watch it. | 0:15:50 | 0:15:55 | |
You're fed up with it. | 0:15:55 | 0:15:57 | |
When you go out with the lads, you like to enjoy yourself. | 0:15:57 | 0:16:01 | |
But you can't enjoy yourself if you haven't got any money. | 0:16:01 | 0:16:04 | |
-Why not? -Well, when you go out with them, they expect you to go to the same places as they do. | 0:16:04 | 0:16:11 | |
But when they go to the pictures, you spend your money on the pictures, | 0:16:11 | 0:16:16 | |
you're left with buttons. | 0:16:16 | 0:16:18 | |
It's hard even to pay for your bus fare, never mind going to the pictures. | 0:16:18 | 0:16:22 | |
And it affects your hobbies. If you're saving records, | 0:16:22 | 0:16:26 | |
you can't afford to buy a record a week if you're on the dole. | 0:16:26 | 0:16:30 | |
So you have to cut down on all your things. | 0:16:30 | 0:16:32 | |
You can't be expected to enjoy yourself when you're on the dole. | 0:16:32 | 0:16:36 | |
Very rare I go out with a girl now. | 0:16:36 | 0:16:38 | |
You can't get very far on about 15 shillings with a girl. | 0:16:38 | 0:16:44 | |
You can't afford to take them out every night. I'm only getting ten shillings. | 0:16:44 | 0:16:48 | |
I was used to about 25 shillings. | 0:16:48 | 0:16:50 | |
Well, when you take them out, | 0:16:50 | 0:16:53 | |
you more or less have to pay for everything they do or have. | 0:16:53 | 0:17:00 | |
So when you take them out once, that's about all you can do. | 0:17:00 | 0:17:05 | |
Do the girls ever offer to pay for you? | 0:17:05 | 0:17:07 | |
Well, the offer, but it's more or less accepting charity, taking it from them. | 0:17:07 | 0:17:13 | |
You feel awful taking it, don't you? | 0:17:13 | 0:17:16 | |
Boys are concerned with entertainment. | 0:17:18 | 0:17:20 | |
Men are concerned with feeding their families. | 0:17:20 | 0:17:23 | |
The consumption of meat is a fair guide to living standards. | 0:17:23 | 0:17:26 | |
To what extent have local butchers been affected by unemployment here? | 0:17:26 | 0:17:30 | |
Oddly enough, my business hasn't suffered at all. | 0:17:30 | 0:17:34 | |
In fact, over Christmas and New Year we had an all-time record. | 0:17:34 | 0:17:38 | |
Don't ask me why or how. | 0:17:38 | 0:17:40 | |
It's contrary to my expectations. | 0:17:40 | 0:17:43 | |
But the facts prove, the figures prove, | 0:17:43 | 0:17:45 | |
and my accountant can substantiate it, | 0:17:45 | 0:17:48 | |
is I had an all-time record both for volume in money and every other way. | 0:17:48 | 0:17:53 | |
I'm delighted to say. | 0:17:53 | 0:17:55 | |
Have you no way of accounting for this with 3,000 unemployed in West Hartlepool? | 0:17:55 | 0:17:59 | |
Well, boastfully, yes. Because I give good value for money. | 0:17:59 | 0:18:02 | |
I think now people find it's better to take the trouble to get that bit of extra value | 0:18:02 | 0:18:08 | |
and travel another 100 yards if necessary to get it. | 0:18:08 | 0:18:11 | |
Conversely, you see, | 0:18:11 | 0:18:14 | |
I think when we've got an era of full employment and prosperity, | 0:18:14 | 0:18:18 | |
which we all desire, let's make no mistake about it. | 0:18:18 | 0:18:21 | |
We don't want to have people unemployed, that's nonsense, | 0:18:21 | 0:18:25 | |
but they get a little careless. | 0:18:25 | 0:18:27 | |
They tend to go to the nearest shop at hand, | 0:18:27 | 0:18:30 | |
pop in, spend their money. | 0:18:30 | 0:18:32 | |
Now, I'm not saying that all the shopkeepers are villains. No misconstruction about that. | 0:18:32 | 0:18:37 | |
But there are better values in some places than others. | 0:18:37 | 0:18:41 | |
You may say this is boasting. Well, it's boasting. | 0:18:41 | 0:18:45 | |
But oddly enough, since times have become worse in figures of unemployment, | 0:18:45 | 0:18:50 | |
so has my business prospered. | 0:18:50 | 0:18:52 | |
There, there must be a lesson for the shopkeeper. | 0:18:52 | 0:18:55 | |
Many unemployed people have told me they're eating less meat. | 0:18:55 | 0:18:59 | |
How do you account for this in the light of your own experience? | 0:18:59 | 0:19:02 | |
Well, it just doesn't apply in my case. | 0:19:02 | 0:19:06 | |
People are not eating - as one can see - they're not eating less meat. | 0:19:06 | 0:19:13 | |
In my case they're eating more meat. | 0:19:13 | 0:19:16 | |
I think it's terribly difficult with a business the size of mine | 0:19:16 | 0:19:20 | |
which covers the entire spread of the town to say that people are eating more stewing beef | 0:19:20 | 0:19:26 | |
and less fillet steaks and such like, which were always scarce anyhow. | 0:19:26 | 0:19:31 | |
I don't think there's any change in the habits of the people. | 0:19:31 | 0:19:34 | |
If it's here, it doesn't come to my business. | 0:19:34 | 0:19:36 | |
I've not seen it. I've no evidence of that. | 0:19:36 | 0:19:39 | |
Not all the butchers in the town share that point of view. | 0:19:39 | 0:19:43 | |
Things have dropped a bit in the last six months or so, | 0:19:43 | 0:19:46 | |
with so many people being out of work. | 0:19:46 | 0:19:48 | |
Some people don't come in for meat now. They can't afford it. | 0:19:48 | 0:19:52 | |
We have other people, instead of getting a joint at the weekend, get half a pound of chops | 0:19:52 | 0:19:57 | |
or a pound of chops. | 0:19:57 | 0:19:58 | |
People buying smaller joints. | 0:19:58 | 0:20:01 | |
They've cut out such things as frozen foods, which are more of a luxury. | 0:20:01 | 0:20:05 | |
In general all of them are slightly cutting down. | 0:20:05 | 0:20:10 | |
Are your prices competitive with other butchers in the town? | 0:20:10 | 0:20:14 | |
Yes, we're as competitive as anyone. | 0:20:14 | 0:20:17 | |
It's a very competitive block where we are here. | 0:20:17 | 0:20:19 | |
There's four butcher's shops and we have to be low in price to get the trade. | 0:20:19 | 0:20:25 | |
Do the customers who buy the cheaper joints tell you what else they're buying instead of meat? | 0:20:25 | 0:20:30 | |
Yes, I think they're mostly buying potatoes | 0:20:30 | 0:20:33 | |
and when vegetables are cheaper, they buy more vegetables. | 0:20:33 | 0:20:36 | |
Make do with less meat. | 0:20:36 | 0:20:38 | |
But on the whole it's not drastic yet. Although we are expecting it in the future. | 0:20:38 | 0:20:44 | |
For unemployed families in real need, | 0:20:44 | 0:20:46 | |
the N.A.B is able to supplement their dole. | 0:20:46 | 0:20:49 | |
Instead of queues at the offices, the assessors visit men in their own homes. | 0:20:49 | 0:20:54 | |
The number of unemployed men receiving assistance | 0:20:54 | 0:20:57 | |
has more than doubled in the last year. | 0:20:57 | 0:20:59 | |
Of the 3,660 people who've lost their jobs, | 0:20:59 | 0:21:03 | |
40% are receiving allowances from the Board. | 0:21:03 | 0:21:06 | |
Now, I have the form you filled in at the Employment Exchange, | 0:21:06 | 0:21:10 | |
from which I see you're getting unemployment benefit | 0:21:10 | 0:21:13 | |
which isn't quite sufficient to meet your commitments. | 0:21:13 | 0:21:17 | |
I'm pleased you've applied | 0:21:17 | 0:21:19 | |
because there are still a lot of people who don't know the facilities are available | 0:21:19 | 0:21:24 | |
and these people are hard to reach. | 0:21:24 | 0:21:26 | |
It's strictly confidential, I assure you of that. | 0:21:26 | 0:21:29 | |
No-one will know anything about it. | 0:21:29 | 0:21:31 | |
Above all, if any grant is payable to you, | 0:21:31 | 0:21:34 | |
don't regard it as charity. | 0:21:34 | 0:21:36 | |
It's a right you've got. | 0:21:36 | 0:21:38 | |
I have to ask you a number of questions, but as I said before, | 0:21:38 | 0:21:41 | |
it's confidential all the time. | 0:21:41 | 0:21:43 | |
-How long have you been out of work? -Six weeks. | 0:21:43 | 0:21:48 | |
-Six weeks. What rent do you pay here? -One pound, 16 and six. | 0:21:48 | 0:21:52 | |
One pound, 16 and sixpence. How many children have you? | 0:21:52 | 0:21:56 | |
-Six children, including the triplets. -Six including triplets. | 0:21:56 | 0:21:59 | |
The information from the interviews is filed, checked and assessed. | 0:21:59 | 0:22:04 | |
On what basis is an award made? | 0:22:04 | 0:22:07 | |
On the basis of scales approved by Parliament, which, with rent added, gives a basic standard. | 0:22:07 | 0:22:13 | |
This standard can be adjusted to meet special needs of any particular case. | 0:22:13 | 0:22:18 | |
How much flexibility do you have for special cases? | 0:22:18 | 0:22:21 | |
We have quite a lot. | 0:22:21 | 0:22:23 | |
Considerable discretion to meet the needs for extra fuel for people who need it, | 0:22:23 | 0:22:27 | |
for extra nourishment if a person is sick. | 0:22:27 | 0:22:31 | |
In many ways we can meet the needs of any particular case. | 0:22:31 | 0:22:35 | |
What qualifications do your officers have, the people who make these awards? | 0:22:35 | 0:22:40 | |
What qualifications? This is a government department, as you know. | 0:22:40 | 0:22:45 | |
They're civil servants. | 0:22:45 | 0:22:47 | |
They have the qualities of humanity, understanding and common sense. | 0:22:47 | 0:22:52 | |
Do you think that civil servants, rather than social workers, | 0:22:52 | 0:22:57 | |
-are better fitted to make these decisions? -Oh, yes. I think so. | 0:22:57 | 0:23:00 | |
What is the average payment made by the National Assistance Board? | 0:23:00 | 0:23:06 | |
It varies of course. The size of the family, the rent a man pays affects the allowance he gets. | 0:23:06 | 0:23:13 | |
But in general, and in the north-east region, | 0:23:13 | 0:23:15 | |
the average supplement to the unemployment benefit | 0:23:15 | 0:23:19 | |
is 30 shillings and seven pence a week. | 0:23:19 | 0:23:21 | |
-How do you encourage eligible people to apply? -By all the means we can. | 0:23:21 | 0:23:26 | |
We have leaflets and posters in every post office | 0:23:26 | 0:23:28 | |
and employment exchange in the country. | 0:23:28 | 0:23:31 | |
We have contacts with various voluntary organisations. | 0:23:31 | 0:23:36 | |
We do our best to encourage people who are entitled to apply as soon as they can. | 0:23:36 | 0:23:42 | |
Are you satisfied that all the people who are eligible do apply? | 0:23:42 | 0:23:46 | |
Well, we try to reach them, but we can't tell, of course, who needs. | 0:23:46 | 0:23:51 | |
We... Facilities are available. | 0:23:51 | 0:23:55 | |
We try to spread them as widely as we can. | 0:23:55 | 0:23:58 | |
But we can never tell whether everybody who is entitled to it is getting it. | 0:23:58 | 0:24:02 | |
Even with National Assistance, | 0:24:02 | 0:24:04 | |
prolonged unemployment creates difficult financial problems for some. | 0:24:04 | 0:24:08 | |
They're not completely destitute, but their reserves are gone, if they ever existed. | 0:24:08 | 0:24:13 | |
The family is wholly dependent on unemployment pay and any supplementaries it can get. | 0:24:13 | 0:24:18 | |
The effects are more evident on families like this who can become increasingly despondent. | 0:24:18 | 0:24:24 | |
I've been out of work eight months and things are pretty grim. | 0:24:24 | 0:24:27 | |
You can't do justice to the children, give them proper food and clothing. | 0:24:27 | 0:24:30 | |
-How much were you earning when you were employed? -About £18 a week. | 0:24:30 | 0:24:34 | |
How much unemployment pay do you get now? | 0:24:34 | 0:24:37 | |
I get six pounds three from the Labour. It's made up to eight pounds by the National Assistance. | 0:24:37 | 0:24:43 | |
-Do you get any other kind of assistance? -No. | 0:24:43 | 0:24:45 | |
-No assistance from anywhere. -Do you get free meals? | 0:24:45 | 0:24:48 | |
Free meals for the children, but the youngest won't stop at school for his. | 0:24:48 | 0:24:52 | |
The oldest two get theirs. | 0:24:52 | 0:24:55 | |
Did you have any savings or any commitments when you finished work? | 0:24:55 | 0:24:59 | |
I had no savings, no. Commitments, I'm paying for them now. Two pounds, 15 a week. | 0:24:59 | 0:25:04 | |
That's things you'd bought when you were still in work? | 0:25:04 | 0:25:08 | |
-Yes. -How else do you break your budget down? | 0:25:09 | 0:25:13 | |
How do you spend the £8 a week? | 0:25:13 | 0:25:15 | |
It's 31 shillings for the rent. | 0:25:15 | 0:25:19 | |
Nine shillings for coal. | 0:25:19 | 0:25:21 | |
Two pounds, 15 for tickets that we've had. | 0:25:23 | 0:25:27 | |
Electric light - three shillings a week. | 0:25:29 | 0:25:32 | |
Then there's money for the gas. | 0:25:32 | 0:25:34 | |
What about food? How much on food a week? | 0:25:36 | 0:25:40 | |
About two pounds a week, food. | 0:25:40 | 0:25:42 | |
Mrs Coomer, how do you feed a family of six on two pounds a week? | 0:25:42 | 0:25:46 | |
You have to. You go round and find the cheapest stuff you can find. | 0:25:46 | 0:25:51 | |
How many meals a day do you have? | 0:25:51 | 0:25:53 | |
Me and my husband, we have one. We do without to give the children so they don't go without. | 0:25:53 | 0:25:58 | |
What do you have for your one meal a day? | 0:25:59 | 0:26:02 | |
We have a dinner and that's all. | 0:26:02 | 0:26:04 | |
But the children get everything. | 0:26:04 | 0:26:06 | |
How do you go on for meat? | 0:26:07 | 0:26:09 | |
I only get the stewing meat, you know. | 0:26:09 | 0:26:13 | |
Half a crown's-worth, that's all I get. | 0:26:13 | 0:26:15 | |
Do you manage meat every day? | 0:26:15 | 0:26:17 | |
I usually get a shilling's-worth of mincemeat. | 0:26:17 | 0:26:20 | |
That has to do the lot of us. | 0:26:20 | 0:26:23 | |
What about milk? | 0:26:23 | 0:26:25 | |
I get one free pint and one cheap token. | 0:26:25 | 0:26:30 | |
-Do you manage to get fruit for your husband and the kiddies? -No, none. | 0:26:32 | 0:26:36 | |
How about vegetables? | 0:26:37 | 0:26:39 | |
Just the potatoes and a sixpenny tin of peas. | 0:26:39 | 0:26:43 | |
Apart from food, what other things do you economise on? | 0:26:43 | 0:26:46 | |
Mostly my food and my coal. | 0:26:46 | 0:26:49 | |
When we have no coal, we just have to do without. | 0:26:49 | 0:26:52 | |
Or chop something up to make a fire for the children. | 0:26:52 | 0:26:55 | |
What sort of things can you chop up? | 0:26:57 | 0:26:59 | |
I've chopped my table up and two dining room chairs. | 0:26:59 | 0:27:03 | |
Even my shopping bags have gone in the fire. | 0:27:06 | 0:27:08 | |
You just have to do it cos we won't let the children go without a fire. | 0:27:10 | 0:27:14 | |
If we have nothing to chop up, we sit round the oven. | 0:27:14 | 0:27:17 | |
The gas oven, with it on, to keep warm. | 0:27:17 | 0:27:20 | |
What about the gas? | 0:27:22 | 0:27:23 | |
Do you spend a lot on gas in order to keep warm? | 0:27:23 | 0:27:27 | |
Yes, two to three shillings a day I spend on the gas if we sit round it. | 0:27:27 | 0:27:32 | |
-Has the children's health been affected? -To now they've been OK. | 0:27:32 | 0:27:36 | |
It's mostly me and my husband. We've gone down in weight terrible. | 0:27:36 | 0:27:39 | |
I used to weigh eight stone. Now I weigh six stone seven. | 0:27:41 | 0:27:44 | |
My husband used to weigh ten stone. Now he's seven stone eight. | 0:27:44 | 0:27:49 | |
And when we had nothing at all, I took his suit to the pawn shop. | 0:27:51 | 0:27:56 | |
# My heart is broken | 0:27:56 | 0:27:58 | |
# But what care I? | 0:27:58 | 0:28:00 | |
# Such pride inside me has woken | 0:28:00 | 0:28:05 | |
# I shall strive my best not to cry, by and by | 0:28:05 | 0:28:09 | |
# When the final farewells must be spoken... # | 0:28:09 | 0:28:13 | |
No longer meeting at work, | 0:28:13 | 0:28:15 | |
a gulf opens between the employed and the unemployed. | 0:28:15 | 0:28:18 | |
A gulf which is not bridged in the pubs and clubs. | 0:28:18 | 0:28:21 | |
There are few ways of meeting friends | 0:28:21 | 0:28:24 | |
without spending at least a little money. | 0:28:24 | 0:28:26 | |
And the unemployed have no surplus. | 0:28:26 | 0:28:28 | |
Unemployment isolates them. | 0:28:28 | 0:28:30 | |
I know quite a few people we used to go out with | 0:28:30 | 0:28:33 | |
and I say, "Are you bringing the wife out tonight?" | 0:28:33 | 0:28:36 | |
"No, we can't afford it. We're staying at home." | 0:28:36 | 0:28:38 | |
On Friday they used to come. We don't see them as often as we'd like. | 0:28:38 | 0:28:42 | |
This, of course, is due to financial embarrassment. | 0:28:42 | 0:28:46 | |
This, of course, can be based on one thing. They like their pint. We used to have a drink together. | 0:28:46 | 0:28:52 | |
This doesn't happen. | 0:28:52 | 0:28:54 | |
I would say that, far and large, | 0:28:54 | 0:28:57 | |
this is going to be possibly a social stigma | 0:28:57 | 0:29:02 | |
between the worker and the non-worker. | 0:29:02 | 0:29:04 | |
I hope not. We want to try to keep our relationships and friendships as we have done in the past. | 0:29:04 | 0:29:11 | |
I often think, you know, when you talk about things like this, | 0:29:11 | 0:29:14 | |
that the discussion about helping them just to have a drink or something, | 0:29:14 | 0:29:21 | |
it doesn't just end there. | 0:29:21 | 0:29:22 | |
There's a lot more things in companionship | 0:29:22 | 0:29:27 | |
without beer, without a drink or without a smoke. | 0:29:27 | 0:29:30 | |
There's many a time going out you miss a man's company. You miss his friendship. | 0:29:30 | 0:29:36 | |
And when a man isn't working, | 0:29:36 | 0:29:38 | |
he feels as though he has to stop away cos he hasn't got the money. | 0:29:38 | 0:29:42 | |
Would you be prepared to work half a week to allow the unemployed to work half a week? | 0:29:42 | 0:29:47 | |
Without any doubt at all. It's something we have done, actually, shared work. | 0:29:47 | 0:29:52 | |
Shift men have shared work at the steelworks. | 0:29:52 | 0:29:55 | |
Men are sharing work now at Westguard's. | 0:29:55 | 0:29:59 | |
Yes. It's a good principle and one I'll stick to all the way through. | 0:29:59 | 0:30:02 | |
I work in industry locally, the same as our friend there. | 0:30:02 | 0:30:06 | |
And we agreed to share work. | 0:30:06 | 0:30:09 | |
If we are going to have unemployment, we said, "We'll go along the right way | 0:30:09 | 0:30:15 | |
"and share the work out." | 0:30:15 | 0:30:16 | |
So if we had to work four days a week, we would do. | 0:30:16 | 0:30:20 | |
It's the only answer to it. You can't have a man on the dole and another man working. | 0:30:20 | 0:30:25 | |
-Do you feel more insecure because of unemployment in the area? -Without a doubt. | 0:30:25 | 0:30:31 | |
We are alarmed at unemployment. | 0:30:31 | 0:30:33 | |
We're not frightened of it. | 0:30:33 | 0:30:35 | |
For the simple reason we believe in the future. | 0:30:36 | 0:30:39 | |
I think that everyone that is employed at the moment | 0:30:39 | 0:30:43 | |
has got this threatening axe and they don't know where it'll fall next. | 0:30:43 | 0:30:48 | |
If there's 40 people waiting outside the gate for your job, | 0:30:48 | 0:30:51 | |
you've got to put extra effort into it. | 0:30:51 | 0:30:54 | |
We know for a fact that this | 0:30:54 | 0:30:58 | |
is against the principles held up by the trade unions | 0:30:58 | 0:31:02 | |
but after all, one's got to look after one's self preservation. | 0:31:02 | 0:31:08 | |
With a steadily rising unemployment figure, | 0:31:08 | 0:31:10 | |
there's less money circulating in West Hartlepool. | 0:31:10 | 0:31:13 | |
Businesses are affected and trade in the shops has fallen in the last six months. | 0:31:13 | 0:31:18 | |
The expensive household goods are affected most. | 0:31:18 | 0:31:21 | |
For those on restricted budgets, | 0:31:21 | 0:31:23 | |
food, rent and fuel have a higher priority | 0:31:23 | 0:31:26 | |
than washing machines, refrigerators and televisions. | 0:31:26 | 0:31:29 | |
But some small businesses, like second-hand clothes shops, | 0:31:32 | 0:31:35 | |
are not having a bad time. | 0:31:35 | 0:31:37 | |
New clothes are too expensive for some unemployed families, | 0:31:37 | 0:31:41 | |
especially with growing children. | 0:31:41 | 0:31:43 | |
Second-hand dealers are doing good business | 0:31:43 | 0:31:47 | |
because some people want to raise money by selling what they can spare, | 0:31:47 | 0:31:50 | |
while others want to buy goods cheaply. | 0:31:50 | 0:31:53 | |
The articles cater for all needs and all ages. | 0:31:53 | 0:31:55 | |
They're sold on a commission basis. | 0:31:55 | 0:31:58 | |
We charge them 12.5 per cent. | 0:31:58 | 0:32:01 | |
They're allowed to leave their goods with us for a month | 0:32:02 | 0:32:07 | |
and if we don't sell them, then they can take them out | 0:32:07 | 0:32:11 | |
or leave them for another month | 0:32:11 | 0:32:13 | |
for a small rent. | 0:32:13 | 0:32:16 | |
We charge a small rent. | 0:32:16 | 0:32:17 | |
You don't think that 12.5 per cent is rather high, | 0:32:17 | 0:32:20 | |
considering that you have no capital invested here. | 0:32:20 | 0:32:23 | |
No, I'm afraid we couldn't work under less. | 0:32:23 | 0:32:27 | |
We shall never get rich, but we find the business very interesting. | 0:32:27 | 0:32:31 | |
In fact, it's fascinating. | 0:32:31 | 0:32:33 | |
What kind of rent do people have to pay to keep the goods in here? | 0:32:33 | 0:32:36 | |
It's about five per cent over the month. | 0:32:36 | 0:32:39 | |
How does unemployment affect the kind of things that people want to sell? | 0:32:40 | 0:32:45 | |
I think it's stepped up the quality of the goods we get, probably. | 0:32:45 | 0:32:49 | |
Probably people are reluctant to part with some of the goods we get, | 0:32:49 | 0:32:53 | |
but they're wanting some money. | 0:32:53 | 0:32:57 | |
In that way, we're able to help a bit, I think. | 0:32:57 | 0:33:01 | |
Do you find that more people are wanting to sell now, rather than buy? | 0:33:01 | 0:33:05 | |
Yes. Yes, I think so, yes. | 0:33:05 | 0:33:08 | |
There's not the money about at present owing to unemployment. | 0:33:08 | 0:33:12 | |
But anything over about four or five pounds we find sticks a bit now. | 0:33:13 | 0:33:19 | |
What can they do to help themselves? | 0:33:21 | 0:33:23 | |
If there's no work in West Hartlepool, | 0:33:23 | 0:33:26 | |
how far should they travel to find employment? | 0:33:26 | 0:33:29 | |
Here's West Hartlepool. | 0:33:29 | 0:33:30 | |
Went from West Hartlepool to London. | 0:33:31 | 0:33:34 | |
From London, went into Essex. | 0:33:34 | 0:33:36 | |
Covered all the Essex area. | 0:33:36 | 0:33:38 | |
From there, we made a detour back to London. | 0:33:38 | 0:33:41 | |
Up to Peterborough. | 0:33:41 | 0:33:42 | |
From Peterborough we went back to West Hartlepool. | 0:33:45 | 0:33:47 | |
The following week, we went to Newcastle. | 0:33:47 | 0:33:50 | |
Covered all the Newcastle area. | 0:33:50 | 0:33:52 | |
From there, we went in the Teme Valley, covering all that area. | 0:33:54 | 0:33:58 | |
Came from there, down into Sunderland and back to West Hartlepool. | 0:33:58 | 0:34:02 | |
Did you not get a job in any of these areas at all? | 0:34:02 | 0:34:05 | |
Yes, I was offered jobs. | 0:34:05 | 0:34:07 | |
But the rate was no good. I couldn't afford to live down there. | 0:34:07 | 0:34:11 | |
-Weren't you offered the trade union rate for the job? -Yes, trade union rates. | 0:34:11 | 0:34:15 | |
But the trade union rate wasn't high enough. | 0:34:15 | 0:34:18 | |
What sort of rate do you want? | 0:34:18 | 0:34:21 | |
Between 17 and £18. I must have that to send money home. | 0:34:21 | 0:34:25 | |
I've a lot of responsibilities. House, furniture, wife. | 0:34:25 | 0:34:29 | |
Why don't I go down south? Why should I go down south? | 0:34:29 | 0:34:33 | |
This is my home town. This is where I live, where I've been brought up. | 0:34:33 | 0:34:38 | |
This is where I've been working since I left school. | 0:34:38 | 0:34:42 | |
This is where I'm prepared to stop. | 0:34:42 | 0:34:45 | |
The streets of London aren't lined with gold. | 0:34:45 | 0:34:49 | |
There's money here when it comes and I'm prepared to stop here and wait. | 0:34:49 | 0:34:54 | |
Until a job arises. | 0:34:54 | 0:34:55 | |
If I did go south, it would mean running two homes. | 0:34:55 | 0:34:59 | |
I wouldn't think of taking the wife and children down south | 0:34:59 | 0:35:04 | |
because this is their home as well as mine. | 0:35:04 | 0:35:07 | |
This is where the wife's parents is. | 0:35:07 | 0:35:09 | |
And my parents. | 0:35:09 | 0:35:11 | |
Therefore, going down south wouldn't solve anything as far as I'm concerned. | 0:35:11 | 0:35:16 | |
This is where I'm staying. | 0:35:16 | 0:35:18 | |
I don't think there's a need for us to go to the south. | 0:35:18 | 0:35:20 | |
We were born and bred in West Hartlepool and I think we should have work up here. | 0:35:20 | 0:35:25 | |
-Without doubt. -Do you feel that West Hartlepool owes you a living? | 0:35:25 | 0:35:30 | |
West Hartlepool doesn't owe anybody anything. | 0:35:30 | 0:35:33 | |
We owe it to West Hartlepool to try and make it something. | 0:35:33 | 0:35:36 | |
They don't owe us anything. We owe them it. | 0:35:36 | 0:35:39 | |
Expect we've got the work to keep going. | 0:35:39 | 0:35:41 | |
The point about the dole is not does West Hartlepool owe us anything. | 0:35:41 | 0:35:46 | |
All we want to do is go to work. We don't want to owe anybody anything. | 0:35:46 | 0:35:50 | |
What if unemployment goes on indefinitely? What then? | 0:35:50 | 0:35:53 | |
I think we'll just have to wait on that question. | 0:35:53 | 0:35:56 | |
The point about the dole is... | 0:35:56 | 0:35:58 | |
If it goes on indefinitely? Well, | 0:36:00 | 0:36:02 | |
that's a very big point, that one. | 0:36:02 | 0:36:04 | |
What, do you mean by another two or three years? | 0:36:04 | 0:36:07 | |
Oh, we'd have to do something. We'd have to go down south. | 0:36:07 | 0:36:10 | |
We'd have to do something drastic. | 0:36:10 | 0:36:13 | |
I hope to God it doesn't go on that long. | 0:36:13 | 0:36:17 | |
It's about time somebody done something about it. | 0:36:17 | 0:36:20 | |
There's a lot of chaps getting bloody sick of it. | 0:36:20 | 0:36:23 | |
I don't know about anybody else! | 0:36:23 | 0:36:25 | |
Some people do get jobs in the south. | 0:36:32 | 0:36:35 | |
But unless the family can go with them, | 0:36:35 | 0:36:37 | |
they create as many problems as they solve. | 0:36:37 | 0:36:40 | |
I got paid off seven weeks ago and I've been to London for a job. | 0:36:40 | 0:36:43 | |
I've managed to get one in Hatfield, just outside London. | 0:36:43 | 0:36:46 | |
Will your wife and child be joining you there? | 0:36:46 | 0:36:49 | |
No, we haven't got a house down there. | 0:36:49 | 0:36:52 | |
Are you going to sell this house? | 0:36:52 | 0:36:55 | |
No. | 0:36:55 | 0:36:56 | |
As we haven't got a house down there, | 0:36:56 | 0:36:59 | |
we can't sell up here cos there'd be too much money lost. | 0:36:59 | 0:37:03 | |
You mean you won't be able to sell this house in any case? | 0:37:03 | 0:37:06 | |
In any case because the people here haven't got the money with them being out of work. | 0:37:06 | 0:37:11 | |
How long have you been in this house? | 0:37:12 | 0:37:14 | |
Three years. But I was in Germany with the forces for two of them. | 0:37:14 | 0:37:18 | |
-So you've really only lived here for one year? -Yes. | 0:37:20 | 0:37:23 | |
-And now you're leaving again? -Yes. | 0:37:23 | 0:37:25 | |
There are plenty of houses for sale in West Hartlepool. | 0:37:30 | 0:37:33 | |
Many would leave to find work if they could find accommodation elsewhere. | 0:37:33 | 0:37:38 | |
For some who own their own houses, it's increasingly hard to sell them. | 0:37:38 | 0:37:42 | |
We find that houses such as this behind us | 0:37:42 | 0:37:44 | |
normally would be selling overnight or in the course of a day or two. | 0:37:44 | 0:37:48 | |
Now the opposite is happening. | 0:37:48 | 0:37:51 | |
They're standing for many months in some cases. | 0:37:51 | 0:37:53 | |
It has made a very big difference as far as the people are concerned, | 0:37:53 | 0:37:58 | |
the owners of the houses don't know what they're going to do. | 0:37:58 | 0:38:01 | |
They can't commit to other houses until they've got rid of their own. | 0:38:01 | 0:38:05 | |
It's had a very big effect on the speed at which houses are sold. | 0:38:05 | 0:38:09 | |
-Is this because the unemployed can't buy them? -That's one reason. | 0:38:09 | 0:38:12 | |
It isn't only the unemployed. It's the insecurity. | 0:38:12 | 0:38:15 | |
People have committed themselves to buy houses | 0:38:15 | 0:38:18 | |
and they then find that when the building society make enquiries from the employers | 0:38:18 | 0:38:25 | |
on behalf of the mortgaging people, | 0:38:25 | 0:38:27 | |
they dare not commit themselves any further. The security is not there. | 0:38:27 | 0:38:31 | |
Where people thought they'd be working indefinitely, | 0:38:31 | 0:38:35 | |
they find from the employers that the security has been cut altogether. | 0:38:35 | 0:38:39 | |
-Within months, anything could happen. -How have prices been affected? | 0:38:39 | 0:38:43 | |
Very much. We have evidence of houses in the 4,000 region | 0:38:43 | 0:38:48 | |
which, after having stood for five or six months, | 0:38:48 | 0:38:52 | |
have come down to an asking price in the 3,000 region. And still the houses are standing. | 0:38:52 | 0:38:57 | |
That doesn't mean that houses aren't selling. They're still going, but nothing like two or three years ago. | 0:38:57 | 0:39:04 | |
How many houses are for sale in the town at the moment? | 0:39:04 | 0:39:07 | |
Something between 400 and 500. At least 400, probably nearer five. | 0:39:07 | 0:39:12 | |
# She's Venus in blue jeans | 0:39:13 | 0:39:17 | |
# Mona Lisa with a ponytail... # | 0:39:17 | 0:39:21 | |
I'm a skilled tradesman, a sheet metalworker, which I served five years at. | 0:39:22 | 0:39:26 | |
Nine months ago, owing to redundancy, I got put out of my job. | 0:39:26 | 0:39:31 | |
Now, I tried a job in a tailor's shop. | 0:39:31 | 0:39:33 | |
They asked me to get a black suit out of my savings. | 0:39:33 | 0:39:37 | |
Well, I did that. But due to overstaffing, I got pushed out. | 0:39:37 | 0:39:41 | |
So now I'm trying my hand as a singer. I've been doing it a while. | 0:39:41 | 0:39:45 | |
I hope I can make a name for myself. | 0:39:45 | 0:39:48 | |
Most of West Hartlepool's unemployed don't expect to make names for themselves. | 0:39:48 | 0:39:53 | |
Their main hope is to find jobs and use the skills they've acquired | 0:39:53 | 0:39:57 | |
in the factories and shipyards. | 0:39:57 | 0:39:59 | |
I've applied for 18 jobs in all, since last April. | 0:39:59 | 0:40:02 | |
Seven of them had been advertised. I only heard from two of those. | 0:40:02 | 0:40:09 | |
The others, I just went round and asked if they had work, but there's none at all. Nothing whatsoever. | 0:40:09 | 0:40:16 | |
Really, he has been a bit depressed and I have been depressed. | 0:40:16 | 0:40:20 | |
But it's one of those things. You have to get over it. | 0:40:20 | 0:40:23 | |
Oh, I've wrote umpteen letters and been over to this trading estate a dozen times. | 0:40:23 | 0:40:30 | |
But of course I haven't heard anything up to date. | 0:40:30 | 0:40:36 | |
The letterbox goes and he comes galloping down | 0:40:36 | 0:40:38 | |
and it's another disappointment. | 0:40:38 | 0:40:41 | |
That idea. | 0:40:41 | 0:40:43 | |
I'm horrified that he sort of loses his sense of humour. | 0:40:43 | 0:40:47 | |
That's what bothers me more than anything. | 0:40:47 | 0:40:49 | |
Not so much me as him. | 0:40:49 | 0:40:51 | |
You see, at first, | 0:40:52 | 0:40:55 | |
we always thought, "Here's another chance." | 0:40:55 | 0:40:58 | |
But since then, it's gone on and on | 0:40:58 | 0:41:01 | |
and he says, "No, it's the age that does it." That's the idea. | 0:41:01 | 0:41:06 | |
Soon as they know you're 57, | 0:41:06 | 0:41:08 | |
it seems as if you've had it. | 0:41:08 | 0:41:11 | |
There's nothing. The steelworks is on a three-day week | 0:41:11 | 0:41:14 | |
which is the biggest concern in the town. | 0:41:14 | 0:41:17 | |
Other places they've been paying them off, the big majority of them. | 0:41:17 | 0:41:21 | |
The shipyard's closed down. | 0:41:21 | 0:41:24 | |
Mortlake is on slack time, on short time as well. | 0:41:26 | 0:41:30 | |
They're paying men off. Half the men that were on the crew I was working with, they've been paid off. | 0:41:30 | 0:41:35 | |
There were 90 men on the outdoor squad and 45 have been paid off. | 0:41:35 | 0:41:40 | |
Terrible. It's not right for a man to sit around the house all day. | 0:41:40 | 0:41:45 | |
He doesn't know what to do with himself. | 0:41:45 | 0:41:47 | |
He can't go out anywhere. | 0:41:47 | 0:41:49 | |
And there's just nothing to do. | 0:41:49 | 0:41:52 | |
I've been all round the town | 0:41:52 | 0:41:54 | |
looking for work and there's no work at all. | 0:41:54 | 0:41:56 | |
I've been to Stockton, Middlesbrough, no work. | 0:41:56 | 0:41:59 | |
There's no work anywhere. | 0:41:59 | 0:42:00 | |
It's hit him pretty badly, because he's never been out of work. | 0:42:00 | 0:42:04 | |
He's just sitting about. He doesn't know what to do with himself. | 0:42:06 | 0:42:09 | |
He's been out looking for jobs but he can't find any. | 0:42:09 | 0:42:13 | |
He's never been out of work since he left school. | 0:42:14 | 0:42:17 | |
This is the first time. | 0:42:17 | 0:42:19 | |
As the days go by, you just sink. You're inclined to sink lower and lower. | 0:42:23 | 0:42:28 | |
I feel I'm losing a certain dignity and self-respect. | 0:42:28 | 0:42:32 | |
You're inclined... If you let yourself go, | 0:42:34 | 0:42:38 | |
they think you're becoming a parasite. | 0:42:38 | 0:42:40 | |
Living on the backs of your fellow men. | 0:42:40 | 0:42:43 | |
Waiting for Work was a documentary written and directed by my dad, Jack Ashley. | 0:43:02 | 0:43:07 | |
Politically passionate, one of the first working class reporters at the BBC. | 0:43:08 | 0:43:13 | |
He wanted to show the suffering caused by high unemployment. | 0:43:13 | 0:43:16 | |
It caused a storm. | 0:43:16 | 0:43:19 | |
Almost half a century later, | 0:43:25 | 0:43:27 | |
I'm in Hartlepool to discover what happened to the families it showed | 0:43:27 | 0:43:31 | |
and the impact of that new-fangled thing television on a struggling town. | 0:43:31 | 0:43:35 | |
Initially, my dad stayed at the Grand Hotel. | 0:43:38 | 0:43:41 | |
But he felt uncomfortable living in luxury while he interviewed people in poverty. | 0:43:42 | 0:43:47 | |
Instead, to get to know the community better, | 0:43:48 | 0:43:51 | |
he moved in with a local shopkeeper, Leo Gillen. | 0:43:51 | 0:43:54 | |
'The town is not a new town, but it has all the amenities we want. | 0:43:55 | 0:43:59 | |
That's my father's voice. Doesn't he sound young! | 0:43:59 | 0:44:02 | |
'We've some of the finest craftsmen in the country.' | 0:44:02 | 0:44:05 | |
The Gillens were heavily involved in making the film. | 0:44:05 | 0:44:08 | |
They had a social conscience | 0:44:08 | 0:44:09 | |
and wanted both the poverty and the community spirit of Hartlepool to be shown. | 0:44:09 | 0:44:14 | |
Your father, I think, came up with the title Waiting for Work. | 0:44:14 | 0:44:17 | |
He did, yes, and did the voiceover. | 0:44:17 | 0:44:21 | |
'But we also have our good spots. | 0:44:21 | 0:44:23 | |
'Well laid-out estates, fine schools | 0:44:23 | 0:44:26 | |
'and a very good community spirit among the people.' | 0:44:26 | 0:44:29 | |
They wanted to show an optimistic side of Hartlepool. | 0:44:29 | 0:44:32 | |
We didn't want unemployment. We were waiting for work. We wanted work. | 0:44:32 | 0:44:36 | |
The film brought out a unique aspect of the town. | 0:44:36 | 0:44:39 | |
Hartlepool is built on a spit head. | 0:44:39 | 0:44:41 | |
You can't pass through it. | 0:44:41 | 0:44:43 | |
I think it's an insular town. But if it hadn't had such a sense of community, | 0:44:43 | 0:44:49 | |
I think Hartlepool's ills would have been really bad. | 0:44:49 | 0:44:52 | |
Long-term unemployment would have seen society collapse. | 0:44:52 | 0:44:55 | |
Hartlepool is known for having more than its fair share of problems. | 0:45:00 | 0:45:04 | |
Whatever the measure, | 0:45:04 | 0:45:06 | |
teenage pregnancy, alcohol abuse, it's at the wrong end of the league tables. | 0:45:06 | 0:45:11 | |
But travelling around the town, you can see some things have changed. | 0:45:11 | 0:45:15 | |
There's a lot of new building. | 0:45:15 | 0:45:17 | |
All of my interviewees will watch the film at Hartlepool 6th form college, | 0:45:19 | 0:45:23 | |
which has just been redeveloped at a cost of more than £20 million. | 0:45:23 | 0:45:28 | |
By coincidence, Joe Coomer lectures here. | 0:45:28 | 0:45:33 | |
# Come on, let's twist again... # | 0:45:33 | 0:45:36 | |
My dad wanted to show that Hartlepool could still enjoy itself | 0:45:36 | 0:45:41 | |
and how! | 0:45:41 | 0:45:42 | |
Here's Joe's Uncle Walter, | 0:45:42 | 0:45:44 | |
leading the singers in the club. | 0:45:44 | 0:45:46 | |
Walter had some interesting ways of making extra money. | 0:45:47 | 0:45:50 | |
Thursday he'd come with his wage packet into the pub | 0:45:52 | 0:45:55 | |
and raffle it! | 0:45:55 | 0:45:56 | |
He knew exactly how many tickets he had to sell to break even. | 0:45:57 | 0:46:01 | |
Some weeks, he'd get double his salary! | 0:46:01 | 0:46:03 | |
Joe's Uncle Walter didn't always have a proper job, | 0:46:03 | 0:46:06 | |
but he was never without cash. | 0:46:06 | 0:46:08 | |
Unlike Joe's dad, Ronnie, | 0:46:08 | 0:46:10 | |
who paints a much bleaker picture. | 0:46:10 | 0:46:13 | |
Things are getting pretty grim. You can't give the children proper food and clothing. | 0:46:13 | 0:46:18 | |
I remember him wringing his hands when he was stressed. | 0:46:18 | 0:46:21 | |
For Joe and the family, it was hard displaying their poverty for all to see. | 0:46:21 | 0:46:26 | |
But director and interviewees were united | 0:46:26 | 0:46:28 | |
in wanting to make a political impact. | 0:46:28 | 0:46:31 | |
They hadn't anticipated the generous reaction. | 0:46:31 | 0:46:35 | |
After the film was aired, | 0:46:35 | 0:46:37 | |
parcels kept coming to the house. | 0:46:37 | 0:46:39 | |
Inside the parcels would be food, clothing, | 0:46:39 | 0:46:43 | |
there'd be presents for the three children there. | 0:46:43 | 0:46:46 | |
The postman would bring letters with postal orders and cheques and cash! | 0:46:46 | 0:46:52 | |
Christmas that year, there was that many turkeys, | 0:46:52 | 0:46:54 | |
they were giving them to the neighbours. | 0:46:54 | 0:46:57 | |
Was that just people from the surrounding area? | 0:46:57 | 0:46:59 | |
From all over the United Kingdom. | 0:46:59 | 0:47:01 | |
I think they were a little humbled by it. | 0:47:01 | 0:47:04 | |
They didn't expect the generosity of people. | 0:47:04 | 0:47:07 | |
Ronnie Coomer's first taste of unemployment wasn't his last. | 0:47:07 | 0:47:12 | |
He never had a permanent job again. | 0:47:12 | 0:47:15 | |
-JACK: -'It's a ritual to be observed twice a week, every week.' | 0:47:15 | 0:47:19 | |
When the documentary was shot, Hartlepool's unemployment rate was one of the highest in the country. | 0:47:19 | 0:47:25 | |
The Macmillan government was under pressure to do something. | 0:47:25 | 0:47:29 | |
My dad believes his film, shown nationwide on the BBC, | 0:47:29 | 0:47:34 | |
may have tipped the balance. | 0:47:34 | 0:47:35 | |
..tell people it's a very good place to go to. | 0:47:35 | 0:47:40 | |
Lord Hailsham was appointed the new minister for the north. | 0:47:40 | 0:47:44 | |
Unfortunately, he put his foot - or rather his head - straight in it. | 0:47:44 | 0:47:49 | |
Lord Hailsham, have you brought your north-east head-gear back? | 0:47:50 | 0:47:54 | |
It's not head-gear, it's my flat cap! | 0:47:54 | 0:47:56 | |
-And here it is. -Thank you very much, sir. | 0:47:56 | 0:47:59 | |
Hailsham's suggestion that large parts of south Durham should be demolished didn't help. | 0:47:59 | 0:48:04 | |
But he wanted to transform the north into a tourism hotspot | 0:48:04 | 0:48:08 | |
in double-quick time. | 0:48:08 | 0:48:10 | |
I'm expecting to see things move from the spring onwards, which is weeks. | 0:48:10 | 0:48:16 | |
Most of Hailsham's plans were shelved. | 0:48:16 | 0:48:19 | |
But he is credited with reconnecting the north-east with the rest of Britain | 0:48:19 | 0:48:23 | |
through multi-million pound transport projects like Teeside airport. | 0:48:23 | 0:48:27 | |
Unfortunately, it was all eclipsed | 0:48:27 | 0:48:31 | |
by memories of that cap. | 0:48:31 | 0:48:32 | |
They even wrote a song about it. | 0:48:32 | 0:48:35 | |
# A little cloth cap, a little cloth cap | 0:48:35 | 0:48:38 | |
# You can eat your singing pinnies from your little cloth cap. # | 0:48:38 | 0:48:44 | |
Many people have told me that queuing for dole is humiliating. | 0:48:46 | 0:48:50 | |
-JACKIE: -Before working at the BBC, my dad was a crane driver. | 0:48:50 | 0:48:54 | |
A swinging jib meant a busy day to him | 0:48:54 | 0:48:57 | |
so he featured a motionless hook, | 0:48:57 | 0:48:59 | |
which was, as he says, a silent and eloquent symbol of unemployment. | 0:48:59 | 0:49:03 | |
His picture was pretty bleak. | 0:49:03 | 0:49:06 | |
He knew it all from first hand. | 0:49:06 | 0:49:09 | |
Money worries and the problems of growing up in a family with no male breadwinner. | 0:49:09 | 0:49:14 | |
So what did the people featured in the film think? | 0:49:14 | 0:49:17 | |
My business hasn't suffered because I give value for money. | 0:49:18 | 0:49:21 | |
Edward Walker had a dozen butcher's shops in Hartlepool. | 0:49:21 | 0:49:25 | |
A big, confident man, he died a few years after this interview. | 0:49:25 | 0:49:30 | |
This is the first time his nephew Tony has seen or heard his uncle | 0:49:30 | 0:49:34 | |
in more than four decades. | 0:49:34 | 0:49:37 | |
I don't think there's any change in the habits of the people. | 0:49:37 | 0:49:41 | |
It was sort of upsetting in a way. | 0:49:41 | 0:49:43 | |
But, um... | 0:49:43 | 0:49:45 | |
-Brought back lots of memories? -Yes. | 0:49:46 | 0:49:49 | |
Yes, he was a great guy. | 0:49:51 | 0:49:54 | |
Tony was a boy when the documentary was made. | 0:49:57 | 0:50:00 | |
The passage of time has given a film destined for one or two TV showings | 0:50:00 | 0:50:05 | |
a nostalgic quality. | 0:50:05 | 0:50:07 | |
But the spirit of the people of Hartlepool still makes a big impact. | 0:50:07 | 0:50:12 | |
I was actually genuinely quite startled, I think. | 0:50:12 | 0:50:15 | |
The one thing that's obviously plain to see | 0:50:15 | 0:50:19 | |
is the fact that the people in this town are literally a breed apart. | 0:50:19 | 0:50:23 | |
They're extremely resilient. | 0:50:23 | 0:50:25 | |
They would have found it extremely hard | 0:50:28 | 0:50:30 | |
and, of course, the men in particular were very proud people. | 0:50:30 | 0:50:34 | |
They had to support the family | 0:50:34 | 0:50:36 | |
but you probably saw that the children were smartly dressed. | 0:50:36 | 0:50:39 | |
I think they had to adjust. | 0:50:39 | 0:50:42 | |
In the '60s, the TV coming to town was a big event. | 0:50:45 | 0:50:49 | |
Hartlepool put on a show for the cameras. | 0:50:49 | 0:50:52 | |
This must be the poshest second-hand dealer in the north! | 0:50:52 | 0:50:56 | |
We shall never get rich, but we find the business interesting. It's fascinating. | 0:50:56 | 0:51:01 | |
This is what's left of Crowther's. | 0:51:04 | 0:51:06 | |
Hello, do you remember when it was Crowther's Corner? | 0:51:07 | 0:51:10 | |
The last person who was in her was here 30 years ago. | 0:51:10 | 0:51:14 | |
-It was my father. -Is it still a shop now? -It's going to be a barber's. | 0:51:14 | 0:51:19 | |
A barber's shop? | 0:51:19 | 0:51:21 | |
The documentary brought Hartlepool's problems to a national audience. | 0:51:21 | 0:51:26 | |
Dramatically so. But after its impact faded, | 0:51:26 | 0:51:29 | |
this carried on being a town with problems. | 0:51:29 | 0:51:32 | |
Television can show and tell. It can't legislate. | 0:51:32 | 0:51:37 | |
Anyway, some people in the film thought it overdid the town's reluctance to change. | 0:51:38 | 0:51:43 | |
-Why should I go down south? -There's no need for us to go down south. | 0:51:44 | 0:51:48 | |
We were bred and born in West Hartlepool. | 0:51:48 | 0:51:51 | |
Dearie me! | 0:51:51 | 0:51:52 | |
These are the sort of attitudes that weren't helpful. | 0:51:52 | 0:51:57 | |
Derek Stevenson, a steel worker, | 0:51:57 | 0:52:00 | |
felt the film was too pessimistic. | 0:52:00 | 0:52:02 | |
He struck a defiant note in his original interview. | 0:52:02 | 0:52:07 | |
We are alarmed at unemployment. We're not frightened of it. | 0:52:07 | 0:52:11 | |
For the simple reason we believe in the future. | 0:52:12 | 0:52:15 | |
Did the film capture the mood of the town at the time? | 0:52:15 | 0:52:18 | |
Half-way, yes. | 0:52:19 | 0:52:21 | |
Half-way no. | 0:52:21 | 0:52:23 | |
It could have been in more depth. | 0:52:23 | 0:52:26 | |
Looking at the change that people were having to assimilate. | 0:52:26 | 0:52:31 | |
It was difficult to get over to people. Industries had closed. | 0:52:31 | 0:52:35 | |
They weren't going to reopen. | 0:52:35 | 0:52:38 | |
We had to look for alternative industries, | 0:52:38 | 0:52:40 | |
alternative work. | 0:52:40 | 0:52:43 | |
And there were those who found alternatives. | 0:52:43 | 0:52:46 | |
I came to Hartlepool with little hope of finding Mr Floyd, the butcher, | 0:52:46 | 0:52:52 | |
who seemed to be on the brink of hard times. | 0:52:52 | 0:52:55 | |
Things have dropped a bit in the last six months with so many out of work. | 0:52:56 | 0:52:59 | |
The one who's got it now is here four years and before that it was three years. | 0:52:59 | 0:53:04 | |
-That's a long time ago, that. -Going back a bit, isn't it? | 0:53:04 | 0:53:08 | |
-Definitely! -OK. Thank you. | 0:53:08 | 0:53:10 | |
I soon found out there was no point looking for his butcher's shop. | 0:53:12 | 0:53:16 | |
Mr Floyd had moved into the car trade, and prospered. | 0:53:16 | 0:53:20 | |
Good grief! | 0:53:21 | 0:53:22 | |
-Takes you back a bit? -Yeah, sure does! | 0:53:22 | 0:53:25 | |
I notice a sheep hanging in the background. | 0:53:26 | 0:53:29 | |
That was quite a lot for a small shop. | 0:53:29 | 0:53:32 | |
The BBC paid Derrick £46 for being interviewed. | 0:53:32 | 0:53:37 | |
A fortune, then. | 0:53:37 | 0:53:39 | |
He's not getting a penny for this! | 0:53:39 | 0:53:41 | |
Derrick believes the film exaggerated Hartlepool's problems. | 0:53:41 | 0:53:46 | |
Most people were of the opinion | 0:53:46 | 0:53:49 | |
that it showed you the town worse than what it was. | 0:53:49 | 0:53:52 | |
It wasn't as deep... It wasn't in as deep a depression as it made it out to be. | 0:53:52 | 0:53:58 | |
The whole film seemed to try to bring that across that people were really bad. | 0:53:58 | 0:54:02 | |
People weren't really bad. | 0:54:02 | 0:54:04 | |
The Coomers' claim that they had to burn their furniture, split the town. | 0:54:04 | 0:54:08 | |
Some thought they shouldn't be washing their dirty linen in public. | 0:54:08 | 0:54:12 | |
Others, like Derrick, didn't believe it happened. | 0:54:12 | 0:54:15 | |
Take that with a pinch of salt. | 0:54:15 | 0:54:17 | |
Those days you could go on the beach and get a bag of sea coal. | 0:54:17 | 0:54:20 | |
An awful lot of people used to get sea coal for free. | 0:54:20 | 0:54:23 | |
I've chopped my table up and two dining room chairs. | 0:54:23 | 0:54:28 | |
So what about the Coomers' confession that they had to burn furniture to keep warm? | 0:54:28 | 0:54:33 | |
Was that a product of artistic licence, or were times really that bad? | 0:54:33 | 0:54:38 | |
Was it simply the truth? | 0:54:38 | 0:54:39 | |
It did actually happen, yes. | 0:54:39 | 0:54:42 | |
I do remember him chopping a chair up and burning the chair. | 0:54:42 | 0:54:46 | |
It was the truth and an early lesson in the perils of TV exposure. | 0:54:46 | 0:54:51 | |
When my grandfather saw that, he said, "What is he doing? | 0:54:52 | 0:54:56 | |
"I gave them that furniture as a wedding present. How dare he?" | 0:54:56 | 0:54:59 | |
He was so incensed by it, he disowned him. He wouldn't speak to him again. | 0:54:59 | 0:55:04 | |
And he didn't speak to him again. | 0:55:04 | 0:55:06 | |
Didn't even go to his funeral. | 0:55:06 | 0:55:08 | |
Had you been a close family before the film was made? | 0:55:10 | 0:55:14 | |
Yes, until the film was aired, | 0:55:14 | 0:55:18 | |
and my grandfather heard what he was doing, | 0:55:18 | 0:55:20 | |
and why he was doing it, he said, "I don't want anything to do with him." | 0:55:20 | 0:55:24 | |
-So the reaction of the film was to fracture your family? -Yes. | 0:55:24 | 0:55:27 | |
A shocking, if unintended, consequence of my dad's work. | 0:55:30 | 0:55:34 | |
Television can be dangerous. | 0:55:34 | 0:55:37 | |
In the ten years after my dad's documentary was broadcast, | 0:55:41 | 0:55:45 | |
Hartlepool didn't go under. | 0:55:45 | 0:55:47 | |
Many of the film's interviewees did well. | 0:55:47 | 0:55:50 | |
In fact, some even became millionaires. | 0:55:50 | 0:55:53 | |
But the deprivation dad showed on television was authentic. | 0:55:53 | 0:55:58 | |
And there's something Leo Gillen said which points to the film's essential truth. | 0:55:58 | 0:56:03 | |
This was way before the major slump in the '70s. | 0:56:03 | 0:56:07 | |
I think the people who were in the film might have been frightened | 0:56:07 | 0:56:10 | |
of this sudden loss of the shipyard which the town was built on. | 0:56:10 | 0:56:14 | |
It was the first time since the war there was a lot of unemployment. | 0:56:14 | 0:56:18 | |
3,000 jobs in Hartlepool in those days with a population of just over 50,000 was a lot of unemployed. | 0:56:18 | 0:56:24 | |
It's the town's fear of what's in store that comes through in the film. | 0:56:29 | 0:56:33 | |
That is its truth. | 0:56:33 | 0:56:35 | |
Illness prevented my dad from returning to Hartlepool. | 0:56:39 | 0:56:43 | |
So on one of his visits to the House of Lords, | 0:56:43 | 0:56:46 | |
I played his documentary, which he hasn't seen for 47 years. | 0:56:46 | 0:56:50 | |
FILM PLAYS | 0:56:50 | 0:56:53 | |
It shook me to see the impact the film had. | 0:56:58 | 0:57:01 | |
My dad felt great sadness at seeing what happened to the Coomer family. | 0:57:01 | 0:57:06 | |
He had no idea at the time. | 0:57:06 | 0:57:09 | |
But he felt overall the film needed to be made | 0:57:09 | 0:57:13 | |
to shine a light on a traditional working-class community | 0:57:13 | 0:57:16 | |
hit hard by recession. | 0:57:16 | 0:57:19 | |
I came to Hartlepool to discover the impact of Waiting for Work on the town. | 0:57:21 | 0:57:26 | |
And to try to follow up the families it featured. | 0:57:26 | 0:57:29 | |
I found agreement about the resilience of the people | 0:57:29 | 0:57:33 | |
and the striking generosity that shone through the film. | 0:57:33 | 0:57:36 | |
And division over the town's problems. | 0:57:36 | 0:57:39 | |
I have no doubt it was a worthwhile piece of work. | 0:57:40 | 0:57:43 | |
But perhaps the final judgement should be left to the family most affected by it - | 0:57:43 | 0:57:48 | |
the Coomers. | 0:57:48 | 0:57:49 | |
-Do you wish it hadn't happened? -Actually, no. | 0:57:49 | 0:57:52 | |
It highlighted the problem at that time. | 0:57:52 | 0:57:54 | |
When you look at it again, you think, "Why on earth did you fall out?" | 0:57:54 | 0:57:58 | |
There was nothing really there that shamed the family. | 0:57:58 | 0:58:02 | |
Today, Hartlepool is transformed. It's a more attractive place to live. | 0:58:03 | 0:58:08 | |
But its unemployment rate is almost double the national average. | 0:58:08 | 0:58:13 | |
Recently, | 0:58:13 | 0:58:14 | |
hundreds were put out of work by the closure of a call centre company. | 0:58:14 | 0:58:18 | |
And there's the threat of cuts in a town heavily dependent on the public sector. | 0:58:18 | 0:58:23 | |
Hartlepool still has a problem. | 0:58:23 | 0:58:27 | |
Many of its people are still waiting for work. | 0:58:27 | 0:58:31 | |
Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd | 0:58:50 | 0:58:53 |