Hugo Duncan Story of a Lifetime


Hugo Duncan

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In my line of work, I'm lucky enough to meet really interesting people

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'and in this series, I'm going to share with you

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'some of the most moving stories I've ever heard.

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'You may laugh, you may cry,'

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but one thing's for sure -

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you'll definitely be touched by what they have to say. I know I was.

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She was my ma, my dad, my protector.

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Hugo Duncan is the Marmite of radio. You either love him or loathe him.

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It's your Uncle Coo!

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But behind the smile, his life has had as many twists and turns

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as the road to Strabane he travels every day.

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I was a real bastard, by name and by nature, at this stage.

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He was popularly known, to be fair, as Drunken Duncan, like,

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there was no question about that.

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He wasn't at home.

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-Because he was out on the road?

-Aye, or he was in the pub.

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One thing's for sure -

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there's much more to the wee man from Strabane than meets the eye.

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"I just want to ask you a question," I said. "I just want to know,

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"are you my father or not?" He just looked up and never spoke to me,

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he never said nothing to me, at all.

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# The day that the rain came down... #

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It's the wettest day of a very wet summer

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and Sod's Law - we've turned up to film.

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But rain hasn't dampened Hugo's spirit.

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He's a natural performer.

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# Well, I'm praying for sun in old Fermanagh... #

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'The skies opened up about 12:30

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'and we were stuck here in the middle of it.

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'We didn't know if we'd be able to go on with it or not'

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and when we started, there would have been about...

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I'd say a dozen people there.

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Hello, and welcome to the glorious, sunny Belcoo!

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CHEERING

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Here we go!

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# Sha-la-la la-la-la-la-la... #

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Do you know, Hugo, I promise you, I'm not going to bullshit you.

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I'm not going to compliment you, just for the sake of it.

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I wouldn't want it.

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There is no other broadcaster in BBC Northern Ireland

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that would have pulled that crowd, in that rain. It was bucketing down

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-and they came out for you.

-I get very embarrassed when you say that.

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If you see, my face is blazing. I'm very, very lucky.

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'Me going out there, it's not like work, at all.'

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# Well, I just dropped in last week from down in Nashville... #

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'I remember going up, Christmas, about 12 months ago

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'and the snow was piled up each side of the motorway

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and there was hard ice and all that,

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and I looked into the mirror of the car myself, and I says,

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-I know you can't say this, but I says,

-"BLEEP

-me, I love this."

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# Open up your heart and let my love in... #

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He's a natural performer, happy to do a turn, at the drop of a hat.

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'If I see a stage anywhere, I just want to get on it. It's like a drug.

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'This is where I feel comfortable. This is me being me.'

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Go for it, go for it! Yo!

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'I can't do nothing else.'

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I don't want to do anything else. Do you know something?

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I've never been on holidays.

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-I never, because...

-Ach, Hugo, you've never been on holiday?

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I went to Nashville to record TV, I went to Nashville to record...

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-But part work.

-No.

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Full stop. No.

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No lies, thanks.

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# Now yesterday's gone Sweet Jesus... #

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Well, during this journey I'm on with you,

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I want to try to get behind that smile.

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The reason I work is because I'm frightened to leave a gap,

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because when I leave a gap,

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I get a wee bit lonely.

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I get a wee bit bored, I get a wee bit down,

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and I fill my life with work. Is that what's happening to you?

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Stephen, we could be twins, only I'm a bit older.

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-Is it what's happening?

-Same thing.

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And every time you're away, you're worrying.

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It's not healthy, though, is it?

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But you worry, you go away, and I'm being honest with you,

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you go away at times and, you know,

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you say, God, maybe they might think,

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"Sure, we've done without him for a fortnight,

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"we'll do without him for the rest of the schedule, you know?"

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You've nobody to dance with?

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Not a big wonder!

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# Do you remember... #

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62 years ago, Hugh Anthony Duncan was born

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at the head of the town in Strabane.

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He's never lived anywhere else, nor does he ever plan to.

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This is his home.

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But it wasn't the best of starts for baby Hugo.

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His mother, wee Susie, wasn't married,

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and in the Catholic community in the 1950s,

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that was altogether quite shocking.

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I remember one day standing down, there used to be an old cafe

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in the Main Street in Strabane, called the Windmill Cafe.

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And this woman walked round,

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and I was about seven or eight years of age, a wee thing

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standing with my ma, and this woman says, "You know, he's well like..."

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She says, "You can say, cos he knows about it, anyway,"

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-Because my ma told me, from the word go.

-Did she?

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Oh, aye, my ma never held back to me.

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-My ma told me from when I was...

-How did she explain to you?

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She didn't explain the nitty-gritty part of it,

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but she explained that I had no daddy.

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But he did have a daddy, one who lived just down the road.

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I've asked Hugo to take me to his father's house.

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On down there, to your left, again.

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It's just over there now, to your...

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to your side there, Stephen, the gable house,

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-and...

-Will we get out?

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No.

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It's got no fond memories for me.

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'Hugo grew up just a few miles from here.'

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One night, in the early '80s, he decided it was time to meet his dad.

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I'd never met the man that they called father, and...

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I suppose I wanted to meet him,

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just for the sake of clarifying

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the fact that if he was my father, if he wasn't,

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so I wanted to ask him that, that's all I wanted to ask him, and...

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I went over and knocked the door myself, and his wife came out,

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God bless her, and I got to know her afterwards,

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and she says "He's not in," and I said, "Excuse me, can I go in?"

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And I went on in, and he was sitting, and...

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So here were you in your early twenties,

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walking in to speak to your dad, for the first time.

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Yeah. And I asked...

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I asked, "Could I... I just want to ask you a question.

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"I just want to know, are you my father or are you not?"

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His wife said, "He's not your father." She said a few things.

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The next thing was...

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He just looked up and he never spoke to me,

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he never said nothing to me at all, and just nodded his head, like that.

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Hugo never spoke again to his father

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and his father went to his grave

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never, ever having said a word to his son.

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On the surface, post-war Strabane didn't have a lot going for it.

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# Oh, my papa... #

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High unemployment meant that money was in short supply,

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and with no father to provide,

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it can't have been easy for Susie and young Hugo.

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# To me, he was so good... #

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Well, now, I'm told that through these doors is your old classroom.

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Come on.

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Do you want to sit in the seat and see if you still fit?

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If it goes down, sure, we'll charge it to you!

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-Look at that.

-Look at that, boy.

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As a wee child, you would have been sitting down here.

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I would've said, if you and I had sat together,

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-we'd have been two bad wee articles!

-And I hear you would have done...

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CONVERSATION FADES OUT

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-Now, what's this?

-What year did I come here?

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I don't know, you tell me. There's '56.

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It must be around that, 56.

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STEPHEN LAUGHS

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Where am I? Look, look at the very top there. Read it out.

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"First of the seventh, 1957."

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"Duncan, Hugh Anthony."

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Do you know what I've noticed in that book?

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If you look at the pupils who are registered beside you,

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it's their father's name, father's name

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and beside you, "Susan."

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That's right.

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You're going to get me going again.

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That's the way it was.

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She was my ma, my da,

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my protector.

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When you see your mum's name there,

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what's in your head?

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It's... It's very emotional.

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Very, very emotional,

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and there's so many thoughts going through my mind

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and, you know, this is reality

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and this brings it back.

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That woman was, she was rearing me on maybe £3 or £4 a week.

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She went out and she did home help.

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She went out and cleaned two or three houses a week,

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to get money for me, to go out and to keep me,

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and if I wanted anything, I got it.

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It shouldn't have been so, given there was no father figure

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and very little money in the house,

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but Hugo's early life sounds idyllic.

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He and wee Susie were inseparable and totally devoted to each other.

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So many great feelings when I walk in here, just look around me.

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It takes me away back.

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I won medals here, for singing,

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and I won medals for Irish dancing.

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'I know you wouldn't think to look at my figure nowadays,

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'but I could dance.'

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My whole life was here.

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It was like an egg, a small egg, and everything was inside that wee shell.

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The shell just was here,

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head of the town, the school,

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the chapel, here.

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This was the best times.

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My mother used to make the tea downstairs

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and she worked with two sisters, called Katie and May Slavin,

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and they use to make the tea.

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There was a wee stage up there, and I sang on the stage.

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I performed Buttons in the pantomime on the stage,

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I sung at every guest tea.

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It wasn't more of a guest at a guest tea, it was more of a torture.

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I had to get singing all the time

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and my ma was pushing me up and pushing me up to sing and...

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This is... This is me.

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'It's just full of memories.'

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You'd love to be able to turn the clock back

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and meet all the lovely people you met when you were younger

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and you hadn't a problem in the world.

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Hugo was growing up at a time when the showband craze was at its peak.

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One of the biggest bands in the country, the Clipper Carlton,

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was from his hometown.

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He left school with no qualifications

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and found himself working in the local factory

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but his dream was to make it as a singer.

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-# Is there water in the well?

-Is there water in the well?

-#

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I went to all these talent competitions

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and I never won a talent competition. I was always "also ran." "Also ran."

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Not one for giving up,

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Hugo was soon singing part-time with a local band, The Melody Aces.

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He couldn't pack in the factory job just yet, though,

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because he had fallen in love.

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Hugo and Joan got married in 1970,

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two weeks after his 20th birthday.

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It was a month that would change his life.

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This is where the wee woman is, then. Brought me into the world.

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'I was 20 on the 26th of March.

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'The following Thursday, the 2nd of April, I was married.

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'And the following Thursday fortnight, the 16th of April,

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'I was holding the candle in my mammy's hand

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'and praying in her ear. She was dying. All inside a month.'

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So, that's what life's about.

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-But she got to see you getting married.

-She did.

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And it's funny, I danced with her that day. This is the God's truth.

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I took her out for a dance that day

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and the minute I put my arms around her, I started to cry

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and I cried, and I cried

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-and I cried.

-Why?

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I'm one of these people, I get these, I get these premonitions,

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and I cried.

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And I went on my honeymoon on the Thursday

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and I came back on the Sunday, I couldn't stay away.

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Just didn't want to stay away. Three days' honeymoon.

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-Didn't want to stay away from your own mum?

-Couldn't stay away.

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I just felt there was something wrong.

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That week, she was very ill,

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and I came home that night.

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Mass at eight, Thursday morning.

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And I was going to my bed.

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But we had the old roller blinds on the front of the wee house

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and the blind was down for about...

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maybe five or ten minutes.

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And the next thing, the blind just...

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rolled up,

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and I looked at Joan, and I says, "My ma."

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And she died that day, at half 12.

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I went down, she died. I was just two weeks married,

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and I used to be lying up in bed, then after we buried her,

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me lying up in the morning and me shouting, "Ma!"

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Just a normal thing to do, "Ma,"

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because Ma, if I wanted anything, Ma got it. Ma, Ma, Ma.

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And I didn't realise for long enough that she was gone.

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I've got a place booked beside her.

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# I go to church on a Sunday

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# The vows that I make, I break them on a Monday... #

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Within weeks of Susie's death,

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the newlywed Hugo had joined The Tallmen.

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Finally, a full-time job with a showband.

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His career took off.

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I recorded a wee song called Dear God,

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and I sung it in this wee voice, wee virgin voice.

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# Dear God... #

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And I sung away like a good 'un,

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and it worked and, for the first four or five years,

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We had about ten songs in the top ten in Ireland.

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So you were tasting success.

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I was tasting success, and I was tasting a lot more than success!

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My God, was I what!

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# And I'm off to Lisdoonvarna... #

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Singing for The Tallmen was living the dream for Hugo,

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but he was constantly on the road -

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yes, working hard, but playing hard, too.

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By now, he was drinking day and night.

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Hugo quite simply was out of control.

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He was, kind of, a half an problem since we met him, wasn't he, John?

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His managers still remember how bad things were.

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He was popularly known, to be fair, as Drunken Duncan,

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like, you know, there was no question about that, you accepted.

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-Drunken Duncan?

-Yeah.

-That's right.

-It's not a great image.

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No, it was a problem the fella had, like, you know.

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Brandy, when he was flush, and when things were running short,

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he'd be down on the wine, like, you know.

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I used to drink poteen, and she had you to some tune, boy,

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and she would send you off, but I enjoyed it, you know?

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Lots of people, Hugo, who I've been talking to,

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have told me you were a happy drunk.

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I was.

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You enjoyed the drink, and people around you enjoyed you drunk?

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I enjoyed the buzz of people. I used to go into a bar in Strabane

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and the bars used to be packed then,

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because I used to say, "Give the bar a drink."

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John Wayne was the worst thing I ever seen, because John Wayne said,

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"Give the bar a drink", so I thought I was John Wayne most of the time.

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But while Hugo was living it up on the road,

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his daughter Suzanne, born in 1971,

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was in Strabane

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and, just like Hugo, she was growing up without her daddy.

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He wasn't at home. That was the main thing, he wasn't at home.

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-Because he was out on the road?

-Aye, or he was in the pub.

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And I spent whole days in the pub, you know,

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when I was off, I would have went to the pub

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at maybe ten or 11 in the morning,

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came home at five or six in the afternoon,

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and away down again that night.

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At what point, Suzanne, did you realise your dad had a problem?

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I think I always did.

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-I always did, to be honest with you.

-Why?

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Because of him always lying on the sofa, being drunk

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and being in the pub all the time,

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but he was very sociable, you know.

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I would say, sometimes he could have been in the pub,

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I'm not saying he wasn't drinking, but it just had to be a place to be,

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all the friends, everybody was there that he knew.

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They might have been dropping in and out

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where he was there the whole day, you know? But...

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But at one time, the time I was in hospital, I remember it.

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I got my appendix out and I came home,

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and we went to the pub on my way home from the hospital.

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-What?

-Aye. That was that.

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-I had to celebrate her coming out of hospital.

-Me, with my stitches in.

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Can you tell your dad what it means,

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what effect, what impact it has on a child

0:18:410:18:45

having someone coming home drunk constantly, or in the pub, drunk?

0:18:450:18:51

You just don't feel like...

0:18:510:18:54

You feel like you're on your own.

0:18:540:18:56

You really don't know what it's like till you live with it yourself.

0:18:560:19:00

As a young man, with all of that attention, success,

0:19:000:19:04

did he lose the run of himself?

0:19:040:19:06

It was a person who, at that time,

0:19:060:19:08

might have had his priorities slightly wrong.

0:19:080:19:10

Spit it out, what do you mean?

0:19:100:19:12

I mean, by that time, he had the emphasis

0:19:120:19:15

on the social side of things rather than the business side of things.

0:19:150:19:20

Hugo would have been more interested than the pub he was singing in

0:19:200:19:23

before he went to the dancing, the crowd that was at the dance,

0:19:230:19:26

even though he was getting no money for singing a few songs in the pub,

0:19:260:19:29

but it was more important that the people there enjoyed them,

0:19:290:19:32

than the people who paid in to enjoy him, like, you know?

0:19:320:19:34

And as Hugo toured the length and breadth of the country,

0:19:340:19:38

he was leaving a trail of destruction in his wake.

0:19:380:19:42

So when you were drinking, you were driving?

0:19:420:19:44

At times. There's no point lying about the thing. I was, aye.

0:19:440:19:48

-I would have went through about 17 cars.

-No?

-Aye.

0:19:510:19:55

17 cars, what? Sorry, 17 cars what - written off?

0:19:550:19:59

Not written off, but hit and damaged,

0:19:590:20:02

-you know, not written off, but...

-17 car crashes, Hugo?

-Yeah.

0:20:020:20:05

Well, maybe just over hedges or something like that, on my own,

0:20:050:20:09

-with nobody else involved.

-Talk me through some of the 17.

0:20:090:20:13

Ach, well, I had a new Triumph Dolomite

0:20:130:20:15

and the first payment wasn't paid on her.

0:20:150:20:17

I was driving this way,

0:20:170:20:20

so the car hit the kerb at this side,

0:20:200:20:23

which knocked me across to the kerb at the far side.

0:20:230:20:26

The kerb at the far side was about ten inches or a foot high,

0:20:260:20:29

so I went up on the kerb, over the kerb, over a wall,

0:20:290:20:32

turned over a few times, and landed on the four wheels in the forecourt.

0:20:320:20:37

And the car was up the middle like a banjo, a bridge in a banjo.

0:20:370:20:41

-So you wrecked the car.

-A write-off.

-And you hadn't, not one payment?

-No.

0:20:410:20:45

I was wearing a, sort of, a greenish three-piece suit

0:20:450:20:50

and the suit was completely dark from here down,

0:20:500:20:54

and the waistcoat was all blood, blood the whole way down,

0:20:540:20:57

and I ended up in hospital.

0:20:570:20:59

I got caught drunken driving on the 13th of September.

0:21:020:21:06

I stopped drinking on the 28th of December

0:21:060:21:09

and I sobered up the 29th.

0:21:090:21:10

-Forever?

-I haven't drunk since.

0:21:100:21:12

1983, I haven't drunk since.

0:21:120:21:15

With Hugo off the drink, family life was beginning to become more normal,

0:21:170:21:22

but one small incident in the mid-80s

0:21:220:21:25

showed him just how much pain his drinking was causing.

0:21:250:21:29

I pondered for a long while about shaving off my beard

0:21:290:21:32

-cos I'd the beard on for a lifetime.

-So you'd always had a beard?

-Aye.

0:21:320:21:35

-All the days you were drunk, you'd had a beard.

-Yeah.

-Exactly.

0:21:350:21:38

Never without a beard during the time Suzanne would have seen me drinking.

0:21:380:21:42

I shaved the beard off and Suzanne came in from school.

0:21:420:21:45

-Do you remember this?

-Oh, I remember it well, aye.

0:21:450:21:47

And Suzanne came in from school

0:21:470:21:50

and walked up to the top of the stairs

0:21:500:21:52

and she just stood and said nothing

0:21:520:21:55

and she walked around into her room again

0:21:550:21:58

and she came back out, and started crying.

0:21:580:22:01

-I remembered I asked you...

-What was wrong?

0:22:010:22:03

Her mother cried, she was crying first, I started crying,

0:22:030:22:07

-her mother was crying.

-You saw the pain in her eyes.

0:22:070:22:10

-I didn't realise.

-Talk me through,

0:22:100:22:12

as you walked up the stairs that day, little girl from school.

0:22:120:22:16

I just came in, a normal day, and he just looked different.

0:22:160:22:20

It was scary. It wasn't nice, it was scary.

0:22:200:22:23

Just, like, if something hit you,

0:22:230:22:25

deja vu, you were going back to the way it was before.

0:22:250:22:29

-You were so scared you couldn't speak.

-No, I couldn't.

0:22:290:22:31

-She just cried.

-I didn't want to know the answer, didn't want to ask, "Is he? Are you?"

0:22:310:22:36

I didn't want to ask, I just went into the room.

0:22:360:22:39

And I says, "What's wrong with you?"

0:22:390:22:41

And she said, because I'd shaved off the beard,

0:22:410:22:45

she thought I was back drinking again

0:22:450:22:47

and I tell you, that was some stabiliser.

0:22:470:22:49

Why?

0:22:490:22:51

Well, she's my world! She's my life!

0:22:510:22:53

And I was...

0:22:530:22:55

I don't know what I was doing.

0:22:560:22:58

-It hurt.

-But why, at that moment, Hugo, did it hurt you so much? Why?

0:22:580:23:02

Because I never realised, I never thought,

0:23:020:23:05

I was too busy in myself, I was too wrapped up in Hugo.

0:23:050:23:08

I didn't realise about Suzanne. I didn't realise about her mother.

0:23:080:23:12

And what suddenly hit you?

0:23:120:23:14

That I was a real bastard. Because that was it.

0:23:140:23:17

By name and by nature at that stage.

0:23:180:23:22

It made me realise where I was going.

0:23:220:23:24

And of course, we all know where he ended up.

0:23:270:23:29

We have to do a running order.

0:23:290:23:31

-Do you feel like doing the running order now?

-Are you ready?

0:23:310:23:33

It was the late '80s. The showband era was at an end

0:23:330:23:37

and when Hugo was invited to present on BBC radio,

0:23:370:23:40

he grabbed the opportunity with both hands.

0:23:400:23:43

That's my wee box, ready now to go up the stairs.

0:23:430:23:46

He's part of the furniture now, but when he first arrived,

0:23:480:23:51

some eyebrows were raised.

0:23:510:23:53

I remember one man saying... I said, "I'm here for six months anyway,"

0:23:530:23:57

and one man said to me, he says,

0:23:570:23:58

"Well, that will be true enough, because you wouldn't suit in here."

0:23:580:24:02

-Someone in the BBC said that?

-Yes, yes.

0:24:020:24:04

And there was that slobbery there.

0:24:040:24:07

The next thing was, the press says the BBC were dumbing down

0:24:070:24:11

and the dumbing down meant,

0:24:110:24:13

I went in there, Stephen, I had no education, I couldn't read.

0:24:130:24:16

-You couldn't read the words?

-I could not.

0:24:160:24:18

What did that do to your self-confidence,

0:24:180:24:21

in broadcasting, when you can't read, in the BBC of all places?

0:24:210:24:24

I tell you, it was a shock for them!

0:24:240:24:26

But having to learn to read

0:24:290:24:31

wasn't the biggest challenge he faced at the BBC.

0:24:310:24:34

It was years before he joined the organisation,

0:24:340:24:36

and it was during the time he was still drinking,

0:24:360:24:39

but Hugo did record an album of rebel songs.

0:24:390:24:43

When Ian Paisley Jr complained,

0:24:430:24:45

Hugo was convinced he would be sacked.

0:24:450:24:47

Why did you sing them, Hugo?

0:24:470:24:50

This was recorded in...

0:24:500:24:53

..the late '70s, 20 years previous,

0:24:550:24:58

when these things were, sort of, common practice, you know,

0:24:580:25:02

people sung Irish ballads, all different ones.

0:25:020:25:04

Your stomach must have been churning, though?

0:25:040:25:07

Stephen, I was sick. I never thought about it at that time.

0:25:070:25:10

I didn't think about it. I just wanted to get in and record.

0:25:100:25:13

So everything you'd built up,

0:25:130:25:14

you'd beaten the drink, you had your dream job in the BBC.

0:25:140:25:17

-And now...

-It was on a knife edge.

0:25:170:25:19

Honest to God, I never slept.

0:25:190:25:22

I had cramps in my stomach for weeks, and I didn't even know what to do.

0:25:220:25:26

If there ever had been a reason to hit the drink, it was a good one.

0:25:260:25:30

Hello, good afternoon, you're very welcome to the programme.

0:25:320:25:35

It's your Uncle Coo!

0:25:350:25:36

I've learnt a lot about Hugo while making this film.

0:25:380:25:40

Skiddley-dee, and that's me!

0:25:400:25:42

Make no mistake, he connects with an audience like no other,

0:25:420:25:47

a true gem in the BBC.

0:25:470:25:49

All the very best you, and here's a kiss from your Uncle Coo.

0:25:490:25:52

How are you doing, boy?

0:25:520:25:54

Yet, despite the success, I sense he's still haunted

0:25:540:25:57

by what he's put his family through all those years he was drinking.

0:25:570:26:01

All that angst he's been bottling up for decades.

0:26:020:26:05

Now it's time to bring it out in the open.

0:26:050:26:09

He feels like he constantly has to make up for it all the time.

0:26:090:26:12

What do you mean?

0:26:120:26:14

It just feels, everything he does

0:26:140:26:16

is trying to make up for all the years with the drinking.

0:26:160:26:19

He doesn't have to. I mean, he's made it up many a time

0:26:190:26:22

but everything still goes back to the drink.

0:26:220:26:26

"I still have to make it up to you."

0:26:260:26:28

There's nothing to make up any more. It was made up long ago.

0:26:290:26:33

-So you've forgiven him?

-Oh, long ago. Long ago.

0:26:330:26:37

SHE SNIFFS

0:26:370:26:38

Long ago.

0:26:390:26:41

He's the best dad I could have asked for.

0:26:410:26:44

-The only one you're going to get!

-With or without the drink.

0:26:440:26:47

I wouldn't change my life

0:26:470:26:50

and that's it, wouldn't change it.

0:26:500:26:52

It's not that I want to apologise to her.

0:26:520:26:55

I just want her to be my daughter, and I want to be her father.

0:26:550:26:59

That's it, and we have to be there for each other.

0:26:590:27:02

We're doing good.

0:27:030:27:04

-We're doing good!

-We're doing good.

0:27:040:27:06

And what about this man who is so, so popular now on the radio

0:27:060:27:10

and with everything he's achieved, are you proud of him?

0:27:100:27:13

Oh, very much so. He's a big softy.

0:27:130:27:15

-Are you?

-Oh, very much so.

0:27:150:27:18

Of course I am. I always was.

0:27:180:27:21

When I was growing up, he never left the house without giving me a kiss

0:27:210:27:24

and lots of love. We wouldn't have had much else, but lots of love.

0:27:240:27:28

-Good one!

-That's it.

0:27:280:27:30

With drink or without drink, there was lots of love.

0:27:300:27:32

So.

0:27:340:27:35

-Thank you.

-Thank you, Stephen.

-Thank you.

0:27:370:27:39

What is life about to you?

0:27:500:27:53

What do you want Hugo Duncan to stand for?

0:27:530:27:56

My biggest wish would be

0:27:560:27:59

to leave an impression on my family's mind today

0:27:590:28:04

that I didn't leave 20, 30 years ago.

0:28:040:28:08

I want them to remember me as who I am now.

0:28:090:28:12

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0:28:360:28:39

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