Browse content similar to The Black Stars of Film. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
In 1939, the most successful film ever made was first released | 0:00:15 | 0:00:21 | |
in cinemas - Gone With The Wind. | 0:00:21 | 0:00:24 | |
A box office sensation, it won nine Oscars and one of those wins | 0:00:24 | 0:00:29 | |
was truly extraordinary, | 0:00:29 | 0:00:30 | |
especially considering the time. | 0:00:30 | 0:00:33 | |
Hattie McDaniel took Best Supporting Actress for playing the maid, | 0:00:34 | 0:00:38 | |
Mammy, and became the first black person to win an Academy Award. | 0:00:38 | 0:00:43 | |
I don't know why she's comin', but she's a-comin'. | 0:00:43 | 0:00:46 | |
It took 24 years for another black actor, Sidney Poitier, | 0:00:46 | 0:00:50 | |
to win an Oscar and there wasn't a black Best Actress winner | 0:00:50 | 0:00:53 | |
until the 21st-century, when Halle Berry won for Monster's Ball. | 0:00:53 | 0:00:58 | |
The film industry has always struggled when it comes to race, | 0:00:59 | 0:01:03 | |
Hollywood in particular. | 0:01:03 | 0:01:05 | |
Its champions would claim that over the years, | 0:01:05 | 0:01:07 | |
film-makers have challenged racism and showcased black actors | 0:01:07 | 0:01:11 | |
who became positive role models and champions of change. | 0:01:11 | 0:01:15 | |
Detractors say that Hollywood has reflected, even perpetuated, | 0:01:15 | 0:01:20 | |
the racism of American society and continually blocked black talent. | 0:01:20 | 0:01:25 | |
So which was the case with Gone With The Wind? | 0:01:26 | 0:01:29 | |
It's a question that was still being asked as late as 2006, | 0:01:29 | 0:01:33 | |
when George Clooney praised the Oscar Academy for being progressive. | 0:01:33 | 0:01:38 | |
And we talked about civil rights when it wasn't really popular | 0:01:38 | 0:01:41 | |
and this Academy, | 0:01:41 | 0:01:43 | |
this group of people gave Hattie McDaniel an Oscar in 1939, | 0:01:43 | 0:01:46 | |
when blacks were still sitting in the backs of theatres. | 0:01:46 | 0:01:49 | |
I'm proud to be a part of this Academy. | 0:01:49 | 0:01:51 | |
Clooney's speech drew plenty of criticism - | 0:01:54 | 0:01:58 | |
the arguments against his take on things perhaps put best by | 0:01:58 | 0:02:01 | |
Spike Lee, director of Malcolm X and Do The Right Thing. | 0:02:01 | 0:02:05 | |
I love George Clooney, I mean, what he's done, | 0:02:07 | 0:02:10 | |
not too many Hollywood stars are going to use their power to do | 0:02:10 | 0:02:13 | |
a film like Good Night, Good Luck and Syriana. | 0:02:13 | 0:02:17 | |
But I don't know how you use Hattie McDaniel | 0:02:17 | 0:02:22 | |
winning an Academy Award | 0:02:22 | 0:02:25 | |
as an example of how progressive and liberal Hollywood is - | 0:02:25 | 0:02:30 | |
I mean, the Academy. | 0:02:30 | 0:02:32 | |
When Hattie McDaniel won that award, | 0:02:32 | 0:02:34 | |
she had to sit in the back of the room. | 0:02:34 | 0:02:36 | |
That role in Gone With The Wind, she played a mammy. | 0:02:38 | 0:02:42 | |
Also, Gone With The Wind, | 0:02:42 | 0:02:44 | |
there's no doubt about it, | 0:02:44 | 0:02:46 | |
if you look at film, | 0:02:46 | 0:02:48 | |
the Union are the bad guys | 0:02:48 | 0:02:51 | |
and the Confederacy are the heroes | 0:02:51 | 0:02:54 | |
and according to the film, | 0:02:54 | 0:02:57 | |
the Confederacy should have won | 0:02:57 | 0:02:58 | |
and kept Negroes enslaved forever! | 0:02:58 | 0:03:03 | |
Plus... | 0:03:03 | 0:03:05 | |
Hattie McDaniel won in 1939. | 0:03:05 | 0:03:07 | |
Halle Berry won... The next African-American woman to win | 0:03:08 | 0:03:13 | |
the Best Actor was 2003 - | 0:03:13 | 0:03:16 | |
that's over 60 years! | 0:03:16 | 0:03:18 | |
So how can you use...?! | 0:03:18 | 0:03:20 | |
That shows how risible they are. | 0:03:20 | 0:03:22 | |
It took 60-something years... | 0:03:22 | 0:03:24 | |
1939, Hattie McDaniel, 2003... | 0:03:24 | 0:03:27 | |
..Halle Berry. | 0:03:28 | 0:03:30 | |
Come on, George - you know better than that. | 0:03:30 | 0:03:32 | |
The actress Butterfly McQueen appeared alongside | 0:03:34 | 0:03:37 | |
Hattie McDaniel in Gone With The Wind, | 0:03:37 | 0:03:40 | |
cast as the O'Hara's family servant, Prissy, | 0:03:40 | 0:03:42 | |
was famously slapped by Scarlett in one scene for telling lies. | 0:03:42 | 0:03:46 | |
-What do you mean? -I don't know! | 0:03:46 | 0:03:49 | |
You told me you knew everything about it! | 0:03:49 | 0:03:51 | |
I don't know how come I told such a lie. | 0:03:51 | 0:03:53 | |
Ma ain't never let me around when folks was having them... | 0:03:53 | 0:03:55 | |
Ah! | 0:03:55 | 0:03:57 | |
Critics have described the role as a racist caricature. | 0:03:57 | 0:04:01 | |
McQueen's feelings about the part were complicated - | 0:04:01 | 0:04:04 | |
she hated the character for being stereotypical, | 0:04:04 | 0:04:06 | |
but enjoyed talking about being part of a movie milestone | 0:04:06 | 0:04:10 | |
during appearances like this one, from 1989. | 0:04:10 | 0:04:13 | |
-Good to see you. -OK. -OK. Yeah, don't worry. | 0:04:13 | 0:04:17 | |
Tell me, did that blow from Vivien Leigh, did it hurt? | 0:04:17 | 0:04:21 | |
-It wasn't a slap! -Wasn't it? | 0:04:21 | 0:04:22 | |
I bargained with them, I said, "If you slap me, I won't scream, | 0:04:22 | 0:04:25 | |
"but if you don't slap me, I'll scream as loud as I can," | 0:04:25 | 0:04:29 | |
so she comes like this... | 0:04:29 | 0:04:31 | |
And somebody behind the camera goes... | 0:04:31 | 0:04:33 | |
SHE CLAPS | 0:04:33 | 0:04:35 | |
-No, I was not hit. -Oh, thank goodness. | 0:04:35 | 0:04:37 | |
-But I think Prissy should have been. -Do you? -Don't you? -Oh, yeah. | 0:04:37 | 0:04:42 | |
-Well, she shouldn't have lied. -No! No. -Did you like her? | 0:04:42 | 0:04:46 | |
-Did you like that part? -Oh! Ooh! I hated that! | 0:04:46 | 0:04:50 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:04:50 | 0:04:51 | |
I hated it THEN, Mr Wogan, I hated it THEN, | 0:04:51 | 0:04:54 | |
but NOW, I'm very happy! | 0:04:54 | 0:04:56 | |
Yeah, because it was your very first film role, | 0:04:58 | 0:05:01 | |
you know, and you tested for the part... | 0:05:01 | 0:05:04 | |
Yes, I tested in New York for the part and they sent for me | 0:05:04 | 0:05:08 | |
and I just went... | 0:05:08 | 0:05:10 | |
cos I wanted to make money | 0:05:10 | 0:05:11 | |
to pay for some new furniture I'd just bought. | 0:05:11 | 0:05:14 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:05:14 | 0:05:16 | |
I mean, the film was made at a tremendous pace, wasn't it? | 0:05:16 | 0:05:19 | |
-Made very quickly. -Oh, no! | 0:05:19 | 0:05:22 | |
He was two years searching for Scarlett, | 0:05:22 | 0:05:24 | |
but I think that was just for publicity and then | 0:05:24 | 0:05:28 | |
Mr Selznick was very painstaking and careful - it wasn't made | 0:05:28 | 0:05:33 | |
quickly, it was made very... | 0:05:33 | 0:05:36 | |
Well, no - from the time it was started | 0:05:36 | 0:05:38 | |
to the time of the premiere, it was less than a year. | 0:05:38 | 0:05:41 | |
Oh! | 0:05:41 | 0:05:42 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:05:42 | 0:05:44 | |
You are...! | 0:05:45 | 0:05:47 | |
You are the one to bring a person out, no, no! | 0:05:47 | 0:05:52 | |
It took longer? | 0:05:53 | 0:05:55 | |
There you are, you shouldn't believe | 0:05:55 | 0:05:56 | |
-everything you read in the publicity. -Oh, no. | 0:05:56 | 0:06:00 | |
Did you... Was it fun on the set, was everybody nice to each other? | 0:06:00 | 0:06:04 | |
Everybody on that set was a lady and a gentleman. | 0:06:05 | 0:06:08 | |
Everybody was so happy and content, but I... | 0:06:08 | 0:06:12 | |
And Mr Selznick understood, | 0:06:13 | 0:06:16 | |
Prissy was stupid and backward | 0:06:16 | 0:06:18 | |
and maybe she smelled and she... | 0:06:18 | 0:06:21 | |
Well, Mr Selznick understood that | 0:06:24 | 0:06:27 | |
no intelligent person would want to be Prissy! | 0:06:27 | 0:06:29 | |
What did you think of Gone With The Wind when it first came out? | 0:06:29 | 0:06:32 | |
-I thought they should bury it. -Put it in a hole? | 0:06:32 | 0:06:36 | |
The first time... | 0:06:41 | 0:06:43 | |
The first time I saw it, I thought, "Oh, they should put that..." | 0:06:43 | 0:06:46 | |
Because, as I said, we weren't concerned about the past. | 0:06:46 | 0:06:50 | |
-What do you think of it now? -Oh! | 0:06:50 | 0:06:52 | |
Now... | 0:06:52 | 0:06:53 | |
-Different now. -Yes, sir! | 0:06:53 | 0:06:55 | |
I meet nice people and I have money to help the people who need | 0:06:55 | 0:07:00 | |
homes, people need food... | 0:07:00 | 0:07:03 | |
Oh! | 0:07:03 | 0:07:04 | |
And I can now... | 0:07:04 | 0:07:07 | |
help dig wells in Africa | 0:07:07 | 0:07:09 | |
and give soap in South America. | 0:07:09 | 0:07:11 | |
Thank goodness Canada doesn't need anything! | 0:07:11 | 0:07:13 | |
LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE | 0:07:13 | 0:07:15 | |
The great Sidney Poitier once said that | 0:07:20 | 0:07:23 | |
he knew what it felt like to be in an audience watching images | 0:07:23 | 0:07:26 | |
of black people that were uncomfortable. | 0:07:26 | 0:07:29 | |
For decades, Poitier was THE face of black cinema and throughout | 0:07:29 | 0:07:33 | |
his career, he fought to avoid parts that were caricatures or negative. | 0:07:33 | 0:07:39 | |
Here, he explains how he told his agent, | 0:07:39 | 0:07:41 | |
a man called Marty Baum, to reject one such stereotypical role. | 0:07:41 | 0:07:45 | |
The offer was one week's work for 750, which was, | 0:07:48 | 0:07:52 | |
for me, a lot of money at that time. | 0:07:52 | 0:07:54 | |
And so I finally had to tell him, | 0:07:57 | 0:07:59 | |
"I can't play it." | 0:07:59 | 0:08:02 | |
And he wanted to know why. | 0:08:03 | 0:08:06 | |
And I said, "It's very difficult to explain," | 0:08:06 | 0:08:08 | |
He said, "Try," and I said, "OK." | 0:08:08 | 0:08:10 | |
I said... | 0:08:12 | 0:08:13 | |
..that... | 0:08:17 | 0:08:19 | |
..anything I do... | 0:08:20 | 0:08:22 | |
..has to have... | 0:08:25 | 0:08:27 | |
...some... | 0:08:29 | 0:08:31 | |
..positive reflection on my father's name. | 0:08:31 | 0:08:34 | |
There's a certain dignity that he is | 0:08:36 | 0:08:39 | |
and he insists upon from others. | 0:08:39 | 0:08:42 | |
He insists upon it in his roles. | 0:08:42 | 0:08:44 | |
It's not that I would have made those choices, | 0:08:44 | 0:08:46 | |
but I admire the fact that he did. | 0:08:46 | 0:08:47 | |
He said once, | 0:08:47 | 0:08:49 | |
I don't mean to quote him, | 0:08:49 | 0:08:52 | |
but that he wanted to play roles | 0:08:52 | 0:08:54 | |
where young black people, | 0:08:54 | 0:08:56 | |
young boys in particular, would leave the theatre saying, | 0:08:56 | 0:08:59 | |
"Yeah, I can be a cop, I can be a psychiatrist, | 0:08:59 | 0:09:04 | |
"I can do this..." Rather than whatever they had thought | 0:09:04 | 0:09:07 | |
they were going to end up being. | 0:09:07 | 0:09:09 | |
Marty Baum would go out to the studios | 0:09:11 | 0:09:14 | |
and he would talk about this young actor that he had. | 0:09:14 | 0:09:18 | |
He would never say to them, | 0:09:18 | 0:09:19 | |
"This is a black actor." | 0:09:19 | 0:09:21 | |
Never. | 0:09:23 | 0:09:24 | |
I would walk in and they would say... | 0:09:27 | 0:09:31 | |
"Marty Baum sent you? You're the guy Marty Baum was talking about?" | 0:09:33 | 0:09:36 | |
I'd say, "Yes, I'm the guy..." | 0:09:36 | 0:09:37 | |
I suppose that the habit of doing such a thing | 0:09:40 | 0:09:45 | |
by an agent in New York | 0:09:45 | 0:09:48 | |
in 1951, '50... | 0:09:48 | 0:09:52 | |
..must have impressed some of | 0:09:55 | 0:09:57 | |
the people I went to see, | 0:09:57 | 0:10:00 | |
because we got good responses. | 0:10:00 | 0:10:02 | |
Amongst those good responses | 0:10:05 | 0:10:07 | |
were roles in important socially-aware films | 0:10:07 | 0:10:09 | |
like The Defiant Ones | 0:10:09 | 0:10:11 | |
and Raisin in the Sun. | 0:10:11 | 0:10:13 | |
But the best response came in 1963 | 0:10:13 | 0:10:16 | |
with his role in the film | 0:10:16 | 0:10:18 | |
Lilies Of The Field. | 0:10:18 | 0:10:19 | |
With it, Sidney made history, | 0:10:19 | 0:10:21 | |
becoming cinema's first Oscar-winning black man. | 0:10:21 | 0:10:25 | |
The winner is Sidney Poitier! | 0:10:27 | 0:10:29 | |
WILD APPLAUSE AND CHEERING | 0:10:29 | 0:10:32 | |
Mr Poitier is the first Negro to win such a high award | 0:10:32 | 0:10:35 | |
and the announcement is received warmly by the audience. | 0:10:35 | 0:10:39 | |
When it came to the moment and Annie opened the envelope, | 0:10:39 | 0:10:42 | |
I thought I'd faint! | 0:10:42 | 0:10:44 | |
I thought I'd fall down, I almost did! | 0:10:44 | 0:10:47 | |
Sidney, the fact that you're a Negro, | 0:10:47 | 0:10:49 | |
-did that make this particularly significant tonight? -Er... | 0:10:49 | 0:10:53 | |
You're going to have to let me mull that one for a while. | 0:10:54 | 0:10:57 | |
Um, it's a very interesting question | 0:10:58 | 0:11:01 | |
and I would prefer not to answer it | 0:11:01 | 0:11:03 | |
in my present anxiety! | 0:11:03 | 0:11:06 | |
I'd rather be much more collected | 0:11:06 | 0:11:08 | |
to deal with such a delicate question. | 0:11:08 | 0:11:11 | |
A delicate question, and it was typical of the man | 0:11:13 | 0:11:16 | |
that whilst breaking new ground, he did it carefully. | 0:11:16 | 0:11:20 | |
Poitier sought to charm, rather than alienate those white audiences | 0:11:20 | 0:11:24 | |
who weren't automatically on board | 0:11:24 | 0:11:26 | |
with the change he represented. | 0:11:26 | 0:11:29 | |
And at times, he even resented becoming a symbol for civil rights. | 0:11:29 | 0:11:33 | |
You ask me questions | 0:11:33 | 0:11:35 | |
that fall continually | 0:11:35 | 0:11:36 | |
within the Negro-ness of my life. | 0:11:36 | 0:11:39 | |
You ask me questions that pertain | 0:11:39 | 0:11:41 | |
to the narrow scope | 0:11:41 | 0:11:44 | |
of the summer riots. | 0:11:44 | 0:11:45 | |
I am artist... | 0:11:46 | 0:11:48 | |
..a man, | 0:11:49 | 0:11:51 | |
American, | 0:11:51 | 0:11:53 | |
contemporary... | 0:11:53 | 0:11:54 | |
I am an awful lot of things, | 0:11:54 | 0:11:56 | |
so I wish you would... | 0:11:56 | 0:11:58 | |
..pay me the respect due | 0:11:59 | 0:12:02 | |
and not simply ask me about those things. | 0:12:02 | 0:12:06 | |
But in 1967, Sidney chose a part | 0:12:09 | 0:12:12 | |
with civil rights clearly in mind - | 0:12:12 | 0:12:15 | |
Guess Who's Coming To Dinner - which dealt with the issue of | 0:12:15 | 0:12:19 | |
interracial marriage and co-starred Hollywood royalty | 0:12:19 | 0:12:22 | |
Katherine Hepburn and Spencer Tracy. | 0:12:22 | 0:12:25 | |
KNOCKING | 0:12:25 | 0:12:27 | |
I'm not intruding? | 0:12:27 | 0:12:29 | |
Of course not, John - please, come in. | 0:12:29 | 0:12:32 | |
'It was one of the most emotional scenes in the movie, | 0:12:32 | 0:12:37 | |
'when I addressed them to talk to them as their future son-in-law. | 0:12:37 | 0:12:43 | |
'And I stood before these two people and I looked them in the eye | 0:12:43 | 0:12:47 | |
'and I couldn't remember a word! | 0:12:47 | 0:12:50 | |
'It went on for hours. | 0:12:50 | 0:12:53 | |
'Ultimately, I had to ask Mr Kramer to do me a favour. | 0:12:53 | 0:12:57 | |
'I decided that I cannot look into the eyes of these people, | 0:12:57 | 0:13:01 | |
'because, to me, all I could see, | 0:13:01 | 0:13:03 | |
'instead of seeing the father and the mother of the girl, | 0:13:03 | 0:13:06 | |
'I am seeing the legends | 0:13:06 | 0:13:07 | |
'of the American film industry in front of me. | 0:13:07 | 0:13:09 | |
'So I said, "Would you please do me a favour? Send them home." | 0:13:09 | 0:13:13 | |
'And he did! He packed them off and they went home, | 0:13:13 | 0:13:16 | |
'he gave them the afternoon off. | 0:13:16 | 0:13:18 | |
'And I then was able to play the scene to two empty chairs.' | 0:13:18 | 0:13:21 | |
On paper, Guess Who's Coming To Dinner should have cemented | 0:13:23 | 0:13:27 | |
Poitier's position as a leading challenger of the status quo. | 0:13:27 | 0:13:31 | |
If anything, the fact it was banned in America's South | 0:13:31 | 0:13:35 | |
was a testament to its significance. | 0:13:35 | 0:13:38 | |
But for some audiences, | 0:13:38 | 0:13:39 | |
it had the opposite effect. | 0:13:39 | 0:13:41 | |
One New York Times writer claimed Poitier's character slipped | 0:13:41 | 0:13:44 | |
so far into tokenistic caricature that it was impossible | 0:13:44 | 0:13:48 | |
to identify with and gave the impression | 0:13:48 | 0:13:51 | |
that only a black man who was so perfectly refined | 0:13:51 | 0:13:54 | |
and impossibly high-achieving could be embraced by a white family. | 0:13:54 | 0:13:58 | |
It was a tough article for me, | 0:14:01 | 0:14:05 | |
because it came at a very... | 0:14:05 | 0:14:06 | |
..delicate time in my life and my career. | 0:14:07 | 0:14:11 | |
Er... | 0:14:11 | 0:14:13 | |
I had had tough articles before, | 0:14:13 | 0:14:16 | |
but the extent to which this was, to my mind, totally... | 0:14:16 | 0:14:22 | |
er, untrue... | 0:14:22 | 0:14:24 | |
..bothered me. | 0:14:26 | 0:14:28 | |
It was a couple of months before I was OK with what he had written. | 0:14:28 | 0:14:33 | |
And, er, I went on with my life. | 0:14:35 | 0:14:39 | |
I never forgot it. | 0:14:39 | 0:14:42 | |
The controversy eventually faded. | 0:14:44 | 0:14:47 | |
Poitier's significance never will, | 0:14:47 | 0:14:50 | |
with many black stars citing him | 0:14:50 | 0:14:52 | |
as the first and most important | 0:14:52 | 0:14:54 | |
aspirational figure they've encountered | 0:14:54 | 0:14:56 | |
and also, of course, he was just a very, very fine actor. | 0:14:56 | 0:15:01 | |
The 1970s saw an explosion in black cinema | 0:15:03 | 0:15:07 | |
and the rise of Blaxploitation films like Shaft, | 0:15:07 | 0:15:10 | |
made specifically for a young, urban, black audience. | 0:15:10 | 0:15:15 | |
But the struggle for roles and recognition continued with | 0:15:15 | 0:15:18 | |
only five black actors nominated for Oscars over the entire decade. | 0:15:18 | 0:15:23 | |
In 1982, Louis Gossett Jr won the Best Supporting Actor prize | 0:15:23 | 0:15:28 | |
for An Officer And A Gentleman, and then, | 0:15:28 | 0:15:31 | |
in 1985, came a film that looked like a guaranteed awards magnet - | 0:15:31 | 0:15:36 | |
The Color Purple - | 0:15:36 | 0:15:38 | |
based on the Pulitzer prize-winning novel by Alice Walker | 0:15:38 | 0:15:41 | |
and directed by Stephen Spielberg, | 0:15:41 | 0:15:43 | |
who took a specific approach when it came to casting. | 0:15:43 | 0:15:46 | |
I didn't want to cast traditional black movie stars, | 0:15:48 | 0:15:51 | |
which I felt would create their own stereotype. | 0:15:51 | 0:15:54 | |
I won't mention any names, because it wouldn't be kind, | 0:15:54 | 0:15:57 | |
but there were people who wanted to be... | 0:15:57 | 0:15:59 | |
To play these parts very much, but if they had played those parts, | 0:15:59 | 0:16:03 | |
it would represent a kind of... | 0:16:03 | 0:16:05 | |
"OK, these black people are the only black people accepted | 0:16:05 | 0:16:08 | |
"in the kind of white world's mainstream". | 0:16:08 | 0:16:12 | |
And I didn't want to do that, | 0:16:12 | 0:16:13 | |
that's why I chose so many unknowns who had not been seen before, | 0:16:13 | 0:16:16 | |
like Whoopi Goldberg and Oprah and Margaret Avery | 0:16:16 | 0:16:20 | |
and wonderful talents like that. | 0:16:20 | 0:16:22 | |
I wanted to really avoid that. | 0:16:22 | 0:16:24 | |
I sort of missed black repertory in America, | 0:16:24 | 0:16:26 | |
there just hasn't been a lot of it. | 0:16:26 | 0:16:28 | |
There hasn't been enough of it and when I saw the wealth of | 0:16:28 | 0:16:31 | |
talent out there when I began casting this film with | 0:16:31 | 0:16:34 | |
Reuben Cannon, I couldn't believe it. | 0:16:34 | 0:16:36 | |
It shocked me to see so many... | 0:16:36 | 0:16:38 | |
I mean, one good black actor, | 0:16:38 | 0:16:40 | |
male, female, old, young, | 0:16:40 | 0:16:42 | |
one after the other, coming in to read for me, | 0:16:42 | 0:16:45 | |
to do videotape performances and being tested. | 0:16:45 | 0:16:49 | |
One after the other, hard to make up your mind, they're all so great. | 0:16:49 | 0:16:52 | |
I kept thinking, "Where have they been?" | 0:16:52 | 0:16:55 | |
"And where's the outlet, where's room to work?" | 0:16:55 | 0:16:58 | |
If you don't have the subject matter, | 0:16:58 | 0:17:00 | |
there's no work for these talented people. | 0:17:00 | 0:17:03 | |
The most significant piece of casting was Whoopi Goldberg, | 0:17:05 | 0:17:08 | |
a relative unknown, who took the lead role of Celie. | 0:17:08 | 0:17:12 | |
I'm a very good actor, I'm very good at what I do. | 0:17:16 | 0:17:18 | |
I believe in myself, you see | 0:17:19 | 0:17:21 | |
and I couldn't get it through people's heads | 0:17:21 | 0:17:25 | |
when I would go to audition for something that they should | 0:17:25 | 0:17:28 | |
hire me because of course they would look and say, "Well, you're not..." | 0:17:28 | 0:17:32 | |
And I'd go, "What?" And they'd go, "Well, you're very good!" | 0:17:32 | 0:17:35 | |
And I'd go... "And?" | 0:17:35 | 0:17:37 | |
And they'd go, "But you're..." | 0:17:37 | 0:17:39 | |
And I'd say... ("Black?") | 0:17:39 | 0:17:42 | |
And they'd go, "Well, yeah, essentially, yes. | 0:17:42 | 0:17:45 | |
"We have a white lead here," and... You know. | 0:17:45 | 0:17:48 | |
But the most amazing thing about this film | 0:17:48 | 0:17:51 | |
is it's truly not a black film. | 0:17:51 | 0:17:55 | |
Here, they always talk about "the black experience", you know, | 0:17:55 | 0:18:00 | |
when this is more like the HUMAN experience, | 0:18:00 | 0:18:03 | |
of someone trying to understand that there's another way. | 0:18:03 | 0:18:08 | |
JAZZ PLAYS | 0:18:08 | 0:18:10 | |
The film was eventually nominated for 11 Oscars with Whoopi Goldberg, | 0:18:13 | 0:18:17 | |
Margaret Avery and Oprah Winfrey all competing | 0:18:17 | 0:18:21 | |
in the acting categories. | 0:18:21 | 0:18:22 | |
It didn't win a single award, | 0:18:22 | 0:18:25 | |
but Whoopi was to get another shot five years later, | 0:18:25 | 0:18:28 | |
with the much-loved fantasy romance Ghost, | 0:18:28 | 0:18:31 | |
in which she played fake clairvoyant Oda Mae Brown. | 0:18:31 | 0:18:34 | |
There's a lot of comedy, but it's also... | 0:18:37 | 0:18:40 | |
I sat and wept watching that. | 0:18:40 | 0:18:42 | |
Well, yeah, it is a weepy movie, | 0:18:42 | 0:18:44 | |
it's kind of mushy, | 0:18:44 | 0:18:45 | |
in these days of, you know, | 0:18:45 | 0:18:48 | |
Total Recall and Recall It Again and Lethal Weapon Seven | 0:18:48 | 0:18:53 | |
and, you know... Die Hard | 0:18:53 | 0:18:55 | |
and then Harder and then Harder Again! | 0:18:55 | 0:18:58 | |
You know, this is a strange little film, | 0:18:58 | 0:19:01 | |
because it allows the audience | 0:19:01 | 0:19:04 | |
to have old-fashioned...tastes. | 0:19:04 | 0:19:09 | |
But in a sense, you're the heroine, aren't you? | 0:19:09 | 0:19:12 | |
I mean, Demi Moore, she's very beautiful and all the rest of it - | 0:19:12 | 0:19:15 | |
she has to cry a lot in this film. | 0:19:15 | 0:19:16 | |
I punched her, that's why she cried so much. | 0:19:16 | 0:19:18 | |
-But you're the heroine, aren't you?... -Um... | 0:19:18 | 0:19:21 | |
Probably. Probably. | 0:19:21 | 0:19:24 | |
I'm very sort of leery of words like that, because they sort of | 0:19:24 | 0:19:29 | |
set you up to be something that might not be everybody's idea, | 0:19:29 | 0:19:33 | |
but she does take a stance | 0:19:33 | 0:19:36 | |
and goes for it. | 0:19:36 | 0:19:38 | |
What do you think the chances | 0:19:38 | 0:19:40 | |
of getting another Oscar nomination are? | 0:19:40 | 0:19:42 | |
I don't even think about that stuff. You know, they can make you crazy - | 0:19:42 | 0:19:45 | |
"Am I going to get it? Am I not? Am I going to get it? Am I not?" | 0:19:45 | 0:19:48 | |
If I get it, I'll be very pleased, if I don't, you can... | 0:19:48 | 0:19:51 | |
..believe that I will be back, trying to get another one. | 0:19:53 | 0:19:56 | |
But is it important... It's important to you? | 0:19:56 | 0:19:58 | |
Oh, absolutely, I want one. | 0:19:58 | 0:20:00 | |
There has not been, and I rarely refer to myself as black, | 0:20:00 | 0:20:04 | |
because it's not something that just happened overnight, | 0:20:04 | 0:20:06 | |
I've always been this way. | 0:20:06 | 0:20:07 | |
-LAUGHTER -So... | 0:20:07 | 0:20:10 | |
You know, so it's not like something that's foremost in my mind, | 0:20:10 | 0:20:13 | |
but strangely enough, there hasn't been a black woman since 1939 | 0:20:13 | 0:20:19 | |
to get an Oscar and I would like to be the first since '39 to get it. | 0:20:19 | 0:20:24 | |
You don't see your colour as any kind of barrier, do you, | 0:20:24 | 0:20:27 | |
in your profession? | 0:20:27 | 0:20:29 | |
-Well, no... I mean, do you? -No, I don't. | 0:20:29 | 0:20:32 | |
-APPLAUSE -There you are. | 0:20:32 | 0:20:34 | |
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE | 0:20:34 | 0:20:36 | |
So what you have to do is go to a film producer and point out | 0:20:38 | 0:20:41 | |
to him that you could play a role that he's automatically | 0:20:41 | 0:20:44 | |
thinking of for Meryl Streep or Glenn Close or... | 0:20:44 | 0:20:46 | |
Well, yeah. I mean, pretty much in the dark, you can't tell. | 0:20:46 | 0:20:50 | |
You know? | 0:20:50 | 0:20:51 | |
Yeah, but when they're filming you, they put lights on you! | 0:20:51 | 0:20:54 | |
Yes, but there's no experience | 0:20:54 | 0:20:55 | |
that you could have had that I could not have. | 0:20:55 | 0:20:58 | |
There is no experience that I have had that you have not. | 0:20:58 | 0:21:01 | |
But how do you get that message across to a film producer? | 0:21:01 | 0:21:04 | |
-You say it very succinctly. -And you've said it? -I say it. | 0:21:04 | 0:21:08 | |
-What do they say when you say it? -Sometimes they said, "OK." | 0:21:08 | 0:21:10 | |
I mean, the only two films that were written for me | 0:21:10 | 0:21:14 | |
with me in mind were Color Purple and Clara's Heart. | 0:21:14 | 0:21:18 | |
All the rest were for men and other women. | 0:21:18 | 0:21:20 | |
But did you have to go knocking and say, "Excuse me, listen, | 0:21:20 | 0:21:22 | |
"look at me - I know I'm black, I can play that role? | 0:21:22 | 0:21:25 | |
Well, actually, I go knocking, | 0:21:25 | 0:21:27 | |
I say, "I hear you have this movie and I'm interested in it," | 0:21:27 | 0:21:30 | |
and they generally will say, "Really? | 0:21:30 | 0:21:32 | |
"But you're..." And I say, "Fat?" | 0:21:32 | 0:21:35 | |
And they say, "No, you're..." | 0:21:35 | 0:21:37 | |
And I say, "Got braided hair?" | 0:21:37 | 0:21:39 | |
They say, "No, you're black." I go, "Oh! No! | 0:21:39 | 0:21:41 | |
"My God, when did it happen?! Who knew?" | 0:21:43 | 0:21:46 | |
And then pretty much, they relax and start talking to me as an actor, | 0:21:46 | 0:21:49 | |
because if you remember, | 0:21:49 | 0:21:51 | |
all of Shakespeare's actors were men playing women's roles. You know? | 0:21:51 | 0:21:56 | |
So the idea of the art of acting | 0:21:56 | 0:21:58 | |
is that we are supposed to be able to play everything | 0:21:58 | 0:22:01 | |
and very few people write for white or black | 0:22:01 | 0:22:05 | |
or Asian or Puerto Rican. | 0:22:05 | 0:22:07 | |
And what do you want to play now? | 0:22:07 | 0:22:09 | |
You've played a man, you've played any kind of age, | 0:22:09 | 0:22:12 | |
you've played white, black - the colour doesn't matter. | 0:22:12 | 0:22:15 | |
What do you really... Who do you admire? | 0:22:15 | 0:22:17 | |
Who would you really like to be in the cinema? | 0:22:17 | 0:22:19 | |
God. | 0:22:19 | 0:22:21 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:22:21 | 0:22:23 | |
I just want to see what'll happen, you know, if I played God. | 0:22:23 | 0:22:26 | |
Whether the Vatican would crumble or something. | 0:22:26 | 0:22:28 | |
Ghost did of course earn Whoopi Goldberg a Best Supporting Actress | 0:22:32 | 0:22:36 | |
Oscar and made her for a while the highest-paid woman in Hollywood. | 0:22:36 | 0:22:40 | |
This period also saw the release of the epic drama Glory, which | 0:22:40 | 0:22:45 | |
told the story of a black regiment fighting in the American Civil War. | 0:22:45 | 0:22:50 | |
The film brought together Morgan Freeman and Denzel Washington, | 0:22:50 | 0:22:53 | |
who would both go on to become influential Hollywood figures, | 0:22:53 | 0:22:57 | |
much-loved and highly successful. | 0:22:57 | 0:22:59 | |
And Glory wasn't Morgan's only hit that year. | 0:22:59 | 0:23:02 | |
His real breakthrough came with his performance in Driving Miss Daisy. | 0:23:02 | 0:23:06 | |
You did a lot of theatre work. | 0:23:07 | 0:23:09 | |
You were in the theatre in a part which, in a movie, was your biggest, | 0:23:09 | 0:23:14 | |
first biggest hit over here, which was Driving Miss Daisy. | 0:23:14 | 0:23:17 | |
Now, that must have been particularly sweet, to create the | 0:23:17 | 0:23:20 | |
role on stage and then to transfer to the screen, which is quite rare. | 0:23:20 | 0:23:23 | |
It is quite rare, but that wasn't what was particularly sweet to me. | 0:23:23 | 0:23:27 | |
What was particularly sweet was before Driving Miss Daisy, | 0:23:27 | 0:23:30 | |
I did this movie called Street Smart, | 0:23:30 | 0:23:31 | |
which I don't think got here, but I played | 0:23:31 | 0:23:34 | |
a really dastardly character, a pimp, | 0:23:34 | 0:23:38 | |
and that was the film and I was doing the play Driving Miss Daisy | 0:23:38 | 0:23:42 | |
and the play opened when the film opened. | 0:23:42 | 0:23:45 | |
So I had these two characters being reviewed by the press at the | 0:23:45 | 0:23:50 | |
same time and both getting these incredible responses from the press. | 0:23:50 | 0:23:56 | |
That was... That was... | 0:23:56 | 0:23:57 | |
I started telling everybody around me, | 0:23:59 | 0:24:01 | |
"Look out, look out! I'm on my way!" | 0:24:01 | 0:24:04 | |
-Tell me about working with Jessica Tandy. -Jessica, she's been acting... | 0:24:04 | 0:24:09 | |
I mean, at that time, she'd been acting for 65 years. | 0:24:09 | 0:24:13 | |
65 years. She was a consummate professional. | 0:24:14 | 0:24:17 | |
On time, on-the-job, | 0:24:18 | 0:24:21 | |
lines down, ready to go. | 0:24:21 | 0:24:25 | |
No BS. | 0:24:25 | 0:24:26 | |
You know? It's never, "Miss Tandy's in her trailer. | 0:24:28 | 0:24:31 | |
"Miss Tandy's not ready." Miss Tandy is on the set, Miss Tandy's ready. | 0:24:31 | 0:24:35 | |
Because her health was not all that she wanted it to be, | 0:24:35 | 0:24:42 | |
they would only let her work six hours a day, | 0:24:42 | 0:24:45 | |
but she'd put in the full six, the full six, every day. | 0:24:45 | 0:24:49 | |
Oh, I just love the smell of a new car! Don't you, Miss Daisy? | 0:24:50 | 0:24:55 | |
-I'm nobody's fool, Hoke. -Why, no! | 0:24:58 | 0:25:02 | |
-My husband taught me to run a car. -Yes. | 0:25:02 | 0:25:05 | |
I remember everything he said, | 0:25:05 | 0:25:08 | |
so don't you think even for a second that you... | 0:25:08 | 0:25:10 | |
Now, wait - you're speeding, I can see it. | 0:25:10 | 0:25:13 | |
No, Miss Daisy, we only doing about 19mph. | 0:25:13 | 0:25:16 | |
When you're looking at a film, I reckon you can often tell | 0:25:16 | 0:25:20 | |
when the people making it had a really good time, and looking at | 0:25:20 | 0:25:24 | |
that, I just got the impression that you really enjoyed making that film. | 0:25:24 | 0:25:27 | |
I did, I loved that character. | 0:25:28 | 0:25:31 | |
I LOVED the whole thing, I loved that piece, that play. | 0:25:31 | 0:25:34 | |
I thought that it was one of the few times ever that someone went | 0:25:35 | 0:25:41 | |
to a Southern situation and told a different story. | 0:25:41 | 0:25:45 | |
You know? Because that was real. | 0:25:45 | 0:25:48 | |
-Do you enjoy watching yourself on film? -No, not particularly. | 0:25:48 | 0:25:52 | |
I like watching a good film and if I happen to be in it, fine, | 0:25:52 | 0:25:56 | |
but for the most part, no, I don't, | 0:25:56 | 0:25:59 | |
because when you're on stage and you don't get to see yourself, | 0:25:59 | 0:26:04 | |
except as you're mirrored through the eyes and responses of the | 0:26:04 | 0:26:07 | |
audience, you look a lot better. | 0:26:07 | 0:26:10 | |
You know? | 0:26:10 | 0:26:12 | |
You don't see your... | 0:26:12 | 0:26:14 | |
perceived mistakes | 0:26:14 | 0:26:16 | |
or things that you always think of as shortcomings in yourself, | 0:26:16 | 0:26:21 | |
which we all have, you know? You're perfect. | 0:26:21 | 0:26:25 | |
You're as perfect as your audience says you are. | 0:26:25 | 0:26:28 | |
When you actually see yourself, | 0:26:28 | 0:26:31 | |
then the audience becomes less believable. | 0:26:31 | 0:26:35 | |
You seem to be a man who likes to keep his feet very much on | 0:26:35 | 0:26:38 | |
the ground. You sail a lot, you get off in your boat. | 0:26:38 | 0:26:41 | |
Is that important to you, | 0:26:41 | 0:26:43 | |
that Chicago upbringing as a kid kind of keeps your feet on the | 0:26:43 | 0:26:46 | |
ground, stops you getting a bit head in the clouds? | 0:26:46 | 0:26:48 | |
You've got to keep contact with reality, | 0:26:48 | 0:26:51 | |
because if you lose contact, and it slaps you, then it's going to hurt. | 0:26:51 | 0:26:55 | |
Morgan Freeman got a Best Actor Oscar nomination | 0:26:55 | 0:26:59 | |
for Driving Miss Daisy. | 0:26:59 | 0:27:00 | |
Denzel Washington won Best Supporting Actor | 0:27:00 | 0:27:04 | |
for his role in Glory. | 0:27:04 | 0:27:06 | |
He'd already earned widespread acclaim playing Steve Biko in | 0:27:06 | 0:27:09 | |
Richard Attenborough's 1987 drama, Cry Freedom. | 0:27:09 | 0:27:13 | |
He would also tackle Shakespeare | 0:27:13 | 0:27:15 | |
in Kenneth Branagh's Much Ado About Nothing and star alongside | 0:27:15 | 0:27:19 | |
Tom Hanks in the Aids drama Philadelphia. | 0:27:19 | 0:27:22 | |
This appearance comes from those early days - | 0:27:22 | 0:27:25 | |
a visit to the Wogan studio in 1992 in which Whoopi Goldberg's | 0:27:25 | 0:27:30 | |
previous appearance on the show came up for discussion. | 0:27:30 | 0:27:33 | |
Now, I saw Whoopi Goldberg being interviewed, | 0:27:33 | 0:27:35 | |
I think it was actually when Miss Sue Lawley was doing this show | 0:27:35 | 0:27:38 | |
while I was away on holiday and doing it dammed well... | 0:27:38 | 0:27:41 | |
She spoke of a lack of good leading roles for African-American actors | 0:27:42 | 0:27:46 | |
or for black actors generally. | 0:27:46 | 0:27:48 | |
Has that been your experience? | 0:27:48 | 0:27:50 | |
It hasn't been so much my experience, | 0:27:50 | 0:27:52 | |
I've been very fortunate. | 0:27:52 | 0:27:55 | |
I know a lot of American actors, | 0:27:55 | 0:27:57 | |
white actors, | 0:27:57 | 0:27:58 | |
who aren't able to get good parts - who do they blame? | 0:27:58 | 0:28:02 | |
-Yes, you think it's an easy excuse. -Yeah, it can be used that way. | 0:28:02 | 0:28:06 | |
But black actors tend to... | 0:28:06 | 0:28:08 | |
I mean you've got a Supporting Oscar, Whoopi's got | 0:28:08 | 0:28:11 | |
a Supporting Oscar. It tends to be support roles, doesn't it? | 0:28:11 | 0:28:14 | |
Well, you know... | 0:28:14 | 0:28:16 | |
I got a big house in California, | 0:28:16 | 0:28:18 | |
I'm a fairly wealthy man, | 0:28:18 | 0:28:20 | |
I can't complain. | 0:28:20 | 0:28:21 | |
It would be easy to sit here and say, "Oh, yeah, | 0:28:21 | 0:28:24 | |
"there's a lot of prejudices, a lot of racism." Well, that's a given. | 0:28:24 | 0:28:30 | |
I try to be a positive person and figure out | 0:28:30 | 0:28:32 | |
a way I can do better, not give into those problems. | 0:28:32 | 0:28:35 | |
It's just that some of the interviews I've read | 0:28:35 | 0:28:37 | |
that you've given, they are casting you in some ways as | 0:28:37 | 0:28:40 | |
-a role model for other African-Americans... -Mm-hm. | 0:28:40 | 0:28:43 | |
..for saying that you do take a strong line, | 0:28:43 | 0:28:45 | |
but obviously...you're relatively happy with your lot. | 0:28:45 | 0:28:49 | |
As I said, I'm a positive person. | 0:28:49 | 0:28:51 | |
I think you have to take what you're given and do something with it, | 0:28:51 | 0:28:55 | |
you know, the easiest thing to do is complain about it and give in | 0:28:55 | 0:28:59 | |
to that, but I try to turn that into something positive and | 0:28:59 | 0:29:01 | |
-so far, it's worked for me. -Good for you. You won the Oscar of course... | 0:29:01 | 0:29:05 | |
-Yeah. -Did you find more people wanted to know you? -Well, um... | 0:29:05 | 0:29:10 | |
I'd like to think that things are pretty much the same, you know. | 0:29:10 | 0:29:14 | |
I guess it's been a little better for me in terms of opportunities, | 0:29:14 | 0:29:17 | |
but I've still got to put out the garbage when I get home... | 0:29:17 | 0:29:20 | |
For goodness' sake. | 0:29:20 | 0:29:22 | |
-Do you do the washing up? All that stuff? -Yeah. | 0:29:22 | 0:29:25 | |
I find myself standing at the sink, saying, | 0:29:25 | 0:29:27 | |
"I bet Frank Sinatra is not doing this in Palm Beach. | 0:29:27 | 0:29:30 | |
-"He's not doing that." -He's not! | 0:29:30 | 0:29:32 | |
-Just you and I! -He's not cleaning the dog turds off the lawn. | 0:29:32 | 0:29:34 | |
We're the only ones doing it! | 0:29:34 | 0:29:36 | |
The people don't understand. | 0:29:36 | 0:29:39 | |
-When you're a star, you shouldn't be asked to do this. -No, no. | 0:29:39 | 0:29:43 | |
-Do you get sent out to the supermarket? -All the time. | 0:29:43 | 0:29:46 | |
-And I always bring back the wrong thing! -Of course! | 0:29:46 | 0:29:48 | |
Again, a film in which you made a tremendous impact was | 0:29:50 | 0:29:53 | |
as Steve Biko in Cry Freedom. | 0:29:53 | 0:29:55 | |
Was that the first time that you'd worked in Africa? | 0:29:55 | 0:29:58 | |
-Yes, first time in England and in Africa. -How did that strike you? | 0:29:58 | 0:30:02 | |
Well, it was like... | 0:30:02 | 0:30:03 | |
Being an African-American, | 0:30:04 | 0:30:06 | |
we're one of the few groups of people on this earth that | 0:30:06 | 0:30:10 | |
don't know where we're from, specifically, you know, | 0:30:10 | 0:30:13 | |
because our history was taken from us during slavery. | 0:30:13 | 0:30:17 | |
We know we're from the continent of Africa, | 0:30:17 | 0:30:19 | |
but not specifically where, so when I went to Zimbabwe where we filmed, | 0:30:19 | 0:30:23 | |
it was sort of a homecoming, like, "Yeah, this makes sense now. | 0:30:23 | 0:30:28 | |
"I'm back home," even though it wasn't necessarily my block! | 0:30:28 | 0:30:31 | |
-But I still felt good about it. -You just made a film with Spike Lee... | 0:30:31 | 0:30:35 | |
-Yes. -On the very controversial black American leader... -Malcolm X. | 0:30:35 | 0:30:39 | |
That's going to make a few waves... | 0:30:39 | 0:30:42 | |
-Yes, that'll stir the pot! -Really? | 0:30:42 | 0:30:45 | |
Yes, we just got off the plane from Cairo yesterday afternoon | 0:30:45 | 0:30:49 | |
and finished up shooting down there. | 0:30:49 | 0:30:52 | |
Once again you've been cast as a kind of... | 0:30:52 | 0:30:54 | |
Well, if not a Malcolm X, sort of leader, somebody to look up to. | 0:30:54 | 0:30:59 | |
Yes, and I don't mind that. | 0:30:59 | 0:31:01 | |
You know, I've done different types of roles. | 0:31:01 | 0:31:03 | |
I also did a film that's opening here in April called Ricochet, | 0:31:03 | 0:31:08 | |
which is just sort of an action-adventure, | 0:31:08 | 0:31:11 | |
hanging off of tall buildings, hero-type stuff, | 0:31:11 | 0:31:14 | |
so variety is the spice of life. | 0:31:14 | 0:31:16 | |
Does Bruce Willis know that you're stealing his thunder? | 0:31:16 | 0:31:18 | |
I'm right on his heels, he'd better watch out! | 0:31:18 | 0:31:20 | |
Denzel did indeed have all of Hollywood watching out. | 0:31:23 | 0:31:26 | |
His popularity is huge and his critical achievements | 0:31:26 | 0:31:30 | |
have seen him compared to Sidney Poitier many times, | 0:31:30 | 0:31:32 | |
which is something that he has mixed feelings about. | 0:31:32 | 0:31:36 | |
I heard it many times in my career, | 0:31:37 | 0:31:39 | |
"Oh, you're the next Sidney Poitier," and I said, you know, | 0:31:39 | 0:31:42 | |
"That's the most racist thing I've ever heard in my life." | 0:31:42 | 0:31:45 | |
Because you're saying it can only be one person at a time - | 0:31:45 | 0:31:48 | |
there was one 40 years ago and now there's one now? | 0:31:48 | 0:31:51 | |
You know, and you can only be compared to one other person | 0:31:51 | 0:31:54 | |
and that person has to be black? That's who you are? | 0:31:54 | 0:31:57 | |
We've decided who, what you are what category and see you later, | 0:31:57 | 0:32:01 | |
that's who you are. | 0:32:01 | 0:32:03 | |
I always resented that. Excuse me. | 0:32:03 | 0:32:06 | |
At the same time, I was like, | 0:32:06 | 0:32:08 | |
"OK! | 0:32:08 | 0:32:10 | |
"I'll take it!" You know? Great actor. | 0:32:10 | 0:32:13 | |
Wonderful human being. | 0:32:13 | 0:32:15 | |
In 2002, Denzel Washington won his second Oscar, | 0:32:18 | 0:32:23 | |
this time for Leading Actor for the film Training Day. | 0:32:23 | 0:32:27 | |
That same night, Halle Berry made history - | 0:32:27 | 0:32:29 | |
her role in Monster's Ball | 0:32:29 | 0:32:32 | |
making her the first black female to win the Best Actress award. | 0:32:32 | 0:32:36 | |
Here, we join her talking about her experiences | 0:32:36 | 0:32:39 | |
and that important Oscar win. | 0:32:39 | 0:32:41 | |
You know, for the first time in my career, I've had like, three or | 0:32:42 | 0:32:45 | |
four projects in development - I've never had that happen in my career. | 0:32:45 | 0:32:49 | |
But I think when anybody wins an Academy Award, | 0:32:49 | 0:32:52 | |
you get a bit more respect from your peers and from the industry, | 0:32:52 | 0:32:55 | |
but it's such a competitive industry, | 0:32:55 | 0:32:59 | |
you still have to be very aggressive and have your eye on the ball | 0:32:59 | 0:33:05 | |
and be very sort of, um, relentless in your approach. | 0:33:05 | 0:33:09 | |
I think the big myth is that you win an Academy Award and then the | 0:33:09 | 0:33:13 | |
script bus comes by your house and drops off all these great scripts. | 0:33:13 | 0:33:17 | |
Many times, more times than I care to tell you, | 0:33:17 | 0:33:19 | |
I have been told, "I don't want to see Halle Berry for this role, | 0:33:19 | 0:33:22 | |
"because we don't want to go black." | 0:33:22 | 0:33:24 | |
Now, what does that mean, "We don't want to go black"? | 0:33:24 | 0:33:27 | |
But I'd hear that over and over and over, | 0:33:27 | 0:33:30 | |
or, "If we cast a black woman in that role, | 0:33:30 | 0:33:32 | |
"it will change the whole dynamic and the meaning of the movie." | 0:33:32 | 0:33:35 | |
And those are hard pills to swallow | 0:33:35 | 0:33:37 | |
when you've been chugging along, | 0:33:37 | 0:33:39 | |
working at your craft and feeling like, | 0:33:39 | 0:33:41 | |
"if I only had the opportunity, I bet I could do a good job at that," | 0:33:41 | 0:33:44 | |
but being denied. | 0:33:44 | 0:33:46 | |
Not even a chance to audition, not even a chance to be seen, | 0:33:46 | 0:33:49 | |
just because the colour of your skin and that still exists today. | 0:33:49 | 0:33:54 | |
I really wish that people would start to see people of colour | 0:33:54 | 0:33:58 | |
as people and not let our colour precede us - sure, notice it, sure - | 0:33:58 | 0:34:02 | |
but I hope the day comes when it doesn't always precede me. | 0:34:02 | 0:34:05 | |
But what it did do was it inspired people, | 0:34:05 | 0:34:07 | |
it inspired their hearts and minds and those inspired people | 0:34:07 | 0:34:11 | |
who maybe thought about giving up, | 0:34:11 | 0:34:12 | |
thought it was a dream or goal that was insurmountable, now have hope | 0:34:12 | 0:34:16 | |
and faith and they're fighting harder because it's happened. | 0:34:16 | 0:34:19 | |
So it's almost tangible for them now. | 0:34:19 | 0:34:21 | |
That WILL transform into a change down the road, it will take a couple | 0:34:21 | 0:34:27 | |
of years I think to really start to see the effects of that night. | 0:34:27 | 0:34:31 | |
Hollywood loves a happy ending, of course, | 0:34:31 | 0:34:34 | |
and what could be more perfect than Sidney Poitier being honoured | 0:34:34 | 0:34:38 | |
with a lifetime achievement award on the same night that Denzel | 0:34:38 | 0:34:42 | |
and Halle won their Oscars? | 0:34:42 | 0:34:44 | |
The message was clearly that after years of black talent | 0:34:44 | 0:34:48 | |
being overlooked, a change had come. | 0:34:48 | 0:34:50 | |
Oscar winners over the next few years included Forrest Whittaker, | 0:34:52 | 0:34:57 | |
Jamie Foxx, Morgan Freeman, | 0:34:57 | 0:34:59 | |
Jennifer Hudson and Octavia Spencer. | 0:34:59 | 0:35:02 | |
And then, in 2013, | 0:35:03 | 0:35:05 | |
more than 70 years after Gone With The Wind, | 0:35:05 | 0:35:09 | |
came a Hollywood film that explored | 0:35:09 | 0:35:11 | |
the slaves' experience of the American South, 12 Years A Slave. | 0:35:11 | 0:35:16 | |
Here we join its British director, Steve McQueen, and his cast | 0:35:16 | 0:35:20 | |
talking to the film critic Mark Kermode. | 0:35:20 | 0:35:22 | |
I'm from the West Indies, | 0:35:24 | 0:35:26 | |
my parents were from the West Indies and of course some of my | 0:35:26 | 0:35:28 | |
ancestors were slaves, so for me, not to have that history | 0:35:28 | 0:35:32 | |
visualised on film, on celluloid, was very strange. | 0:35:32 | 0:35:36 | |
It is a huge part of not just America's history, | 0:35:36 | 0:35:41 | |
but world history. European history. | 0:35:41 | 0:35:44 | |
So therefore, I needed it to be on film and to see... | 0:35:44 | 0:35:48 | |
Investigate myself through the camera what occurred, as such. | 0:35:48 | 0:35:52 | |
Solomon's story begins in 1841. | 0:35:55 | 0:35:58 | |
His world implodes when his comfortable family life | 0:35:58 | 0:36:01 | |
in New York state is taken away from him | 0:36:01 | 0:36:04 | |
and he's sold to work in the plantations of the deep South. | 0:36:04 | 0:36:07 | |
Powerless to protest, | 0:36:10 | 0:36:11 | |
he's unable to get word to his family that he has been kidnapped. | 0:36:11 | 0:36:15 | |
Solomon is somebody who starts off in the story believing that | 0:36:16 | 0:36:19 | |
he's in a battle for his freedom, but discovers through the story | 0:36:19 | 0:36:22 | |
that, actually, he's in a battle for his mind. | 0:36:22 | 0:36:25 | |
It's an amazing first person account from | 0:36:25 | 0:36:27 | |
so deep inside this experience that really speaks to... | 0:36:27 | 0:36:31 | |
I mean, so much of the way the world worked then, | 0:36:32 | 0:36:35 | |
the way it works now, his way of being able to relate, | 0:36:35 | 0:36:39 | |
and poetically relate the story of what happened to him | 0:36:39 | 0:36:42 | |
so powerfully I think was so extraordinary. | 0:36:42 | 0:36:46 | |
And that servant... | 0:36:46 | 0:36:48 | |
that don't obey his Lord... | 0:36:48 | 0:36:50 | |
shall be beaten with many stripes. | 0:36:50 | 0:36:54 | |
That's scripture. | 0:36:54 | 0:36:55 | |
Tell me how you approached the physicality of the subject of | 0:36:55 | 0:37:00 | |
slavery, because it's very difficult to know exactly what you can show, | 0:37:00 | 0:37:04 | |
what you can't show, how you can put the audience in those positions. | 0:37:04 | 0:37:07 | |
Well, I didn't want to censor myself on anything, so I decided, | 0:37:07 | 0:37:10 | |
I'm going to show everything. | 0:37:10 | 0:37:11 | |
Do you have a completely non-censorious | 0:37:11 | 0:37:14 | |
approach to your vision? | 0:37:14 | 0:37:15 | |
I'm a bit weird like that, I suppose. Um... | 0:37:15 | 0:37:18 | |
No. In this case, it was about the truth. | 0:37:20 | 0:37:23 | |
How can I make a movie about slavery and not show certain aspects of it? | 0:37:23 | 0:37:28 | |
-Yeah. -I cannot. It would be, | 0:37:28 | 0:37:31 | |
I mean, sort of... For my ancestors, | 0:37:31 | 0:37:33 | |
and for other people's, it would be sort of... | 0:37:33 | 0:37:38 | |
You know, it would be a travesty. You can't do that. | 0:37:40 | 0:37:42 | |
It's like, you cannot do that. What is slavery? | 0:37:42 | 0:37:45 | |
Slavery is sort of, you know, | 0:37:45 | 0:37:47 | |
making people work in servitude, | 0:37:47 | 0:37:51 | |
and how do you get them to do that? | 0:37:51 | 0:37:53 | |
Well, you punish them, | 0:37:53 | 0:37:55 | |
you scare the hell out of them and how do you do that? | 0:37:55 | 0:37:58 | |
By making examples of people. How do you do that? | 0:37:58 | 0:38:00 | |
By the most horrible acts of sort of brutality one can think of. | 0:38:00 | 0:38:04 | |
And how am I sitting here? Because certain people survived that. | 0:38:04 | 0:38:09 | |
Um... So, you know, there was not a choice, it was not a question. | 0:38:09 | 0:38:14 | |
We shot scenes by actual lynching trees and it's impossible not | 0:38:19 | 0:38:23 | |
to feel that, to know that you're really dancing with spirits. | 0:38:23 | 0:38:26 | |
I mean, you feel that you're connected to something and | 0:38:28 | 0:38:30 | |
you're connected to one of the most extraordinary experiences | 0:38:30 | 0:38:35 | |
that a collective of people have ever gone through. | 0:38:35 | 0:38:38 | |
That was really powerful, to be on a set where everything | 0:38:38 | 0:38:42 | |
just took you back to a totally different time. | 0:38:42 | 0:38:46 | |
I never thought that I would be picking cotton in my life, | 0:38:46 | 0:38:49 | |
and to be doing that at the height of summer, | 0:38:49 | 0:38:52 | |
at the height of noon, I just... | 0:38:52 | 0:38:55 | |
..was faced with how strong | 0:38:56 | 0:39:00 | |
these people were that lived through these days. | 0:39:00 | 0:39:03 | |
These people did it for 16, 18, sometimes 20 hours a day. | 0:39:04 | 0:39:09 | |
I mean, that is something to reckon with. | 0:39:09 | 0:39:12 | |
Tell me about working with Chiwetel. | 0:39:12 | 0:39:14 | |
-I mean, it's an extraordinary performance from him. -Yes. | 0:39:14 | 0:39:17 | |
He's done great work before, I think, anyway, | 0:39:17 | 0:39:20 | |
but tell me about him, | 0:39:20 | 0:39:21 | |
how you cast him and how you discussed the role with him. | 0:39:21 | 0:39:24 | |
Well, I asked him, I rang him on the phone, he said... | 0:39:24 | 0:39:28 | |
I said, "Have you read the script?" He said no. | 0:39:28 | 0:39:31 | |
He said no. I said, "What? | 0:39:31 | 0:39:32 | |
-"I just offered you this..." He said no. -Because? | 0:39:32 | 0:39:35 | |
I think, you know, as he has said before, | 0:39:35 | 0:39:38 | |
it was like having the role that you've been waiting for all | 0:39:38 | 0:39:41 | |
your life and this thing landing on your lap and him being paralysed | 0:39:41 | 0:39:46 | |
and him saying to himself, "I can't do this." | 0:39:46 | 0:39:49 | |
I'm not filming that. | 0:39:49 | 0:39:50 | |
'I was just very aware, first of all, the responsibility of it,' | 0:39:50 | 0:39:54 | |
the responsibility of telling Solomon Northup's story... | 0:39:54 | 0:39:58 | |
Because it's a real story and an important story? | 0:39:58 | 0:40:00 | |
Yes, it's this man's life and his experience, | 0:40:00 | 0:40:03 | |
there's the responsibility to him, his descendants, you know... | 0:40:03 | 0:40:06 | |
There was a responsibility to the overall idea. | 0:40:06 | 0:40:08 | |
I'd never seen a story like this before, | 0:40:08 | 0:40:10 | |
I'd never read a story that was so deep inside this experience | 0:40:10 | 0:40:14 | |
and I was shocked by that, compelled by that, obviously, | 0:40:14 | 0:40:19 | |
but I was also... | 0:40:19 | 0:40:20 | |
It took me a moment, it took me some pause. | 0:40:20 | 0:40:23 | |
And what about Patsy? | 0:40:23 | 0:40:25 | |
Well, Patsy... | 0:40:26 | 0:40:27 | |
That was Lupita Nyong'o. | 0:40:27 | 0:40:29 | |
It was like searching for Scarlett O'Hara, it really was. | 0:40:29 | 0:40:32 | |
It was over 1,000 girls we auditioned for that part. | 0:40:32 | 0:40:35 | |
It had to be someone who was new. | 0:40:35 | 0:40:37 | |
It had to be someone that we had to find, | 0:40:37 | 0:40:39 | |
because there was no-one like that, so it was a long and hard hunt. | 0:40:39 | 0:40:43 | |
We found this girl who had not just graduated from Yale yet | 0:40:43 | 0:40:47 | |
and she was just amazing. | 0:40:47 | 0:40:50 | |
And that was it, a star is born. | 0:40:50 | 0:40:53 | |
12 Years A Slave won that year's Best Picture Oscar, | 0:40:56 | 0:41:00 | |
saw Lupita Nyong'o win Best Supporting Actress | 0:41:00 | 0:41:03 | |
and, alongside the Martin Luther King drama Selma, | 0:41:03 | 0:41:07 | |
was held up as proof that Hollywood had made real progress on race. | 0:41:07 | 0:41:11 | |
We must march, we must stand up. | 0:41:13 | 0:41:16 | |
You march those people into rural Alabama, | 0:41:16 | 0:41:18 | |
it's going to be open season. | 0:41:18 | 0:41:20 | |
The reason why this film wasn't made earlier | 0:41:20 | 0:41:24 | |
is because Hollywood | 0:41:24 | 0:41:26 | |
had a tendency of wanting to tell this kind of story | 0:41:26 | 0:41:29 | |
through white eyes, because there was this notion that | 0:41:29 | 0:41:32 | |
A) you need a movie star, | 0:41:32 | 0:41:34 | |
so there are very few to none black movie stars in their 30s, | 0:41:34 | 0:41:37 | |
because they have less opportunities | 0:41:37 | 0:41:40 | |
to become movie stars... | 0:41:40 | 0:41:41 | |
GUNSHOT | 0:41:41 | 0:41:42 | |
And also, there is a notion about white guilt | 0:41:42 | 0:41:45 | |
in relation to slavery and the civil rights movement, so you have | 0:41:45 | 0:41:49 | |
a white character who's nice to black people who ends up effectively | 0:41:49 | 0:41:52 | |
saving them, so it's always been through this prism that these films | 0:41:52 | 0:41:56 | |
have been made until 12 Years A Slave came along | 0:41:56 | 0:42:00 | |
and did critically well, and well at the box office, | 0:42:00 | 0:42:02 | |
proving that people are ready to see these kind of films. | 0:42:02 | 0:42:06 | |
I've seen the glory! Glory! | 0:42:06 | 0:42:09 | |
Glory! Hallelujah! | 0:42:09 | 0:42:11 | |
But it took just 12 months for the 12 Years factor to disappear. | 0:42:13 | 0:42:18 | |
David Oyelowo's much-praised portrayal | 0:42:18 | 0:42:20 | |
of Martin Luther King in Selma was overlooked in 2015, | 0:42:20 | 0:42:25 | |
and no other black actor received Oscar nominations that year, either. | 0:42:25 | 0:42:29 | |
When the situation was repeated in 2016, | 0:42:29 | 0:42:31 | |
there was an explosion of controversy. | 0:42:31 | 0:42:34 | |
Now, the absence of black actors among the nominees for the Oscars | 0:42:36 | 0:42:40 | |
for the second year running is unforgivable, | 0:42:40 | 0:42:42 | |
according to the British actor David Oyelowo. | 0:42:42 | 0:42:45 | |
The race row over this year's ceremony | 0:42:45 | 0:42:47 | |
shows no signs of going away. | 0:42:47 | 0:42:49 | |
I think it's wrong. Not even nominated. We're not... | 0:42:50 | 0:42:53 | |
We're just saying being nominated. I just think it's wrong. | 0:42:53 | 0:42:56 | |
Like last year, | 0:42:56 | 0:42:58 | |
all 20 acting nominees for the 2016 Oscars are white. | 0:42:58 | 0:43:01 | |
I'm Chris Rock and I'm hosting the Oscars. | 0:43:01 | 0:43:04 | |
He may be the host, | 0:43:04 | 0:43:05 | |
but the Hollywood elite does not look like him. | 0:43:05 | 0:43:08 | |
The director Spike Lee says he won't be attending. | 0:43:08 | 0:43:10 | |
He's boycotting the ceremony, calling the Oscars "lily-white". | 0:43:10 | 0:43:15 | |
The body which decides who gets an Oscar said it's reviewing | 0:43:15 | 0:43:18 | |
its membership because of the anger at the lack of racial diversity | 0:43:18 | 0:43:21 | |
among this year's nominees. | 0:43:21 | 0:43:23 | |
Too late for this year's Oscars, | 0:43:23 | 0:43:25 | |
already drowned out by the question, "Is Hollywood racist?" | 0:43:25 | 0:43:29 | |
Hollywood is still struggling to properly reflect its cinemagoers | 0:43:31 | 0:43:35 | |
on-screen, but as we've seen, it's not through a lack of talent. | 0:43:35 | 0:43:40 | |
The trailblazing black actors we've been celebrating here | 0:43:40 | 0:43:43 | |
have proven that the business that is show could be bolder | 0:43:43 | 0:43:48 | |
and look beyond race for its stars of the future. | 0:43:48 | 0:43:51 |