The Black Stars of Film Talking Pictures


The Black Stars of Film

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In 1939, the most successful film ever made was first released

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in cinemas - Gone With The Wind.

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A box office sensation, it won nine Oscars and one of those wins

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was truly extraordinary,

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especially considering the time.

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Hattie McDaniel took Best Supporting Actress for playing the maid,

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Mammy, and became the first black person to win an Academy Award.

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I don't know why she's comin', but she's a-comin'.

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It took 24 years for another black actor, Sidney Poitier,

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to win an Oscar and there wasn't a black Best Actress winner

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until the 21st-century, when Halle Berry won for Monster's Ball.

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The film industry has always struggled when it comes to race,

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Hollywood in particular.

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Its champions would claim that over the years,

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film-makers have challenged racism and showcased black actors

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who became positive role models and champions of change.

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Detractors say that Hollywood has reflected, even perpetuated,

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the racism of American society and continually blocked black talent.

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So which was the case with Gone With The Wind?

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It's a question that was still being asked as late as 2006,

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when George Clooney praised the Oscar Academy for being progressive.

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And we talked about civil rights when it wasn't really popular

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and this Academy,

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this group of people gave Hattie McDaniel an Oscar in 1939,

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when blacks were still sitting in the backs of theatres.

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I'm proud to be a part of this Academy.

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Clooney's speech drew plenty of criticism -

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the arguments against his take on things perhaps put best by

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Spike Lee, director of Malcolm X and Do The Right Thing.

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I love George Clooney, I mean, what he's done,

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not too many Hollywood stars are going to use their power to do

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a film like Good Night, Good Luck and Syriana.

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But I don't know how you use Hattie McDaniel

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winning an Academy Award

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as an example of how progressive and liberal Hollywood is -

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I mean, the Academy.

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When Hattie McDaniel won that award,

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she had to sit in the back of the room.

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That role in Gone With The Wind, she played a mammy.

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Also, Gone With The Wind,

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there's no doubt about it,

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if you look at film,

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the Union are the bad guys

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and the Confederacy are the heroes

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and according to the film,

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the Confederacy should have won

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and kept Negroes enslaved forever!

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Plus...

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Hattie McDaniel won in 1939.

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Halle Berry won... The next African-American woman to win

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the Best Actor was 2003 -

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that's over 60 years!

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So how can you use...?!

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That shows how risible they are.

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It took 60-something years...

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1939, Hattie McDaniel, 2003...

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..Halle Berry.

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Come on, George - you know better than that.

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The actress Butterfly McQueen appeared alongside

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Hattie McDaniel in Gone With The Wind,

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cast as the O'Hara's family servant, Prissy,

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was famously slapped by Scarlett in one scene for telling lies.

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-What do you mean?

-I don't know!

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You told me you knew everything about it!

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I don't know how come I told such a lie.

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Ma ain't never let me around when folks was having them...

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Ah!

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Critics have described the role as a racist caricature.

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McQueen's feelings about the part were complicated -

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she hated the character for being stereotypical,

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but enjoyed talking about being part of a movie milestone

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during appearances like this one, from 1989.

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-Good to see you.

-OK.

-OK. Yeah, don't worry.

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Tell me, did that blow from Vivien Leigh, did it hurt?

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-It wasn't a slap!

-Wasn't it?

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I bargained with them, I said, "If you slap me, I won't scream,

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"but if you don't slap me, I'll scream as loud as I can,"

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so she comes like this...

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And somebody behind the camera goes...

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SHE CLAPS

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-No, I was not hit.

-Oh, thank goodness.

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-But I think Prissy should have been.

-Do you?

-Don't you?

-Oh, yeah.

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-Well, she shouldn't have lied.

-No! No.

-Did you like her?

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-Did you like that part?

-Oh! Ooh! I hated that!

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LAUGHTER

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I hated it THEN, Mr Wogan, I hated it THEN,

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but NOW, I'm very happy!

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Yeah, because it was your very first film role,

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you know, and you tested for the part...

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Yes, I tested in New York for the part and they sent for me

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and I just went...

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cos I wanted to make money

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to pay for some new furniture I'd just bought.

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LAUGHTER

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I mean, the film was made at a tremendous pace, wasn't it?

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-Made very quickly.

-Oh, no!

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He was two years searching for Scarlett,

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but I think that was just for publicity and then

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Mr Selznick was very painstaking and careful - it wasn't made

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quickly, it was made very...

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Well, no - from the time it was started

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to the time of the premiere, it was less than a year.

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Oh!

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LAUGHTER

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You are...!

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You are the one to bring a person out, no, no!

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It took longer?

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There you are, you shouldn't believe

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-everything you read in the publicity.

-Oh, no.

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Did you... Was it fun on the set, was everybody nice to each other?

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Everybody on that set was a lady and a gentleman.

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Everybody was so happy and content, but I...

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And Mr Selznick understood,

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Prissy was stupid and backward

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and maybe she smelled and she...

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Well, Mr Selznick understood that

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no intelligent person would want to be Prissy!

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What did you think of Gone With The Wind when it first came out?

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-I thought they should bury it.

-Put it in a hole?

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The first time...

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The first time I saw it, I thought, "Oh, they should put that..."

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Because, as I said, we weren't concerned about the past.

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-What do you think of it now?

-Oh!

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Now...

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-Different now.

-Yes, sir!

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I meet nice people and I have money to help the people who need

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homes, people need food...

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Oh!

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And I can now...

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help dig wells in Africa

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and give soap in South America.

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Thank goodness Canada doesn't need anything!

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LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE

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The great Sidney Poitier once said that

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he knew what it felt like to be in an audience watching images

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of black people that were uncomfortable.

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For decades, Poitier was THE face of black cinema and throughout

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his career, he fought to avoid parts that were caricatures or negative.

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Here, he explains how he told his agent,

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a man called Marty Baum, to reject one such stereotypical role.

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The offer was one week's work for 750, which was,

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for me, a lot of money at that time.

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And so I finally had to tell him,

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"I can't play it."

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And he wanted to know why.

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And I said, "It's very difficult to explain,"

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He said, "Try," and I said, "OK."

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I said...

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..that...

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..anything I do...

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..has to have...

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...some...

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..positive reflection on my father's name.

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There's a certain dignity that he is

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and he insists upon from others.

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He insists upon it in his roles.

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It's not that I would have made those choices,

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but I admire the fact that he did.

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He said once,

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I don't mean to quote him,

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but that he wanted to play roles

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where young black people,

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young boys in particular, would leave the theatre saying,

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"Yeah, I can be a cop, I can be a psychiatrist,

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"I can do this..." Rather than whatever they had thought

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they were going to end up being.

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Marty Baum would go out to the studios

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and he would talk about this young actor that he had.

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He would never say to them,

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"This is a black actor."

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Never.

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I would walk in and they would say...

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"Marty Baum sent you? You're the guy Marty Baum was talking about?"

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I'd say, "Yes, I'm the guy..."

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I suppose that the habit of doing such a thing

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by an agent in New York

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in 1951, '50...

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..must have impressed some of

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the people I went to see,

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because we got good responses.

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Amongst those good responses

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were roles in important socially-aware films

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like The Defiant Ones

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and Raisin in the Sun.

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But the best response came in 1963

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with his role in the film

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Lilies Of The Field.

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With it, Sidney made history,

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becoming cinema's first Oscar-winning black man.

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The winner is Sidney Poitier!

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WILD APPLAUSE AND CHEERING

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Mr Poitier is the first Negro to win such a high award

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and the announcement is received warmly by the audience.

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When it came to the moment and Annie opened the envelope,

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I thought I'd faint!

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I thought I'd fall down, I almost did!

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Sidney, the fact that you're a Negro,

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-did that make this particularly significant tonight?

-Er...

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You're going to have to let me mull that one for a while.

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Um, it's a very interesting question

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and I would prefer not to answer it

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in my present anxiety!

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I'd rather be much more collected

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to deal with such a delicate question.

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A delicate question, and it was typical of the man

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that whilst breaking new ground, he did it carefully.

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Poitier sought to charm, rather than alienate those white audiences

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who weren't automatically on board

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with the change he represented.

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And at times, he even resented becoming a symbol for civil rights.

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You ask me questions

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that fall continually

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within the Negro-ness of my life.

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You ask me questions that pertain

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to the narrow scope

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of the summer riots.

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I am artist...

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..a man,

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American,

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contemporary...

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I am an awful lot of things,

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so I wish you would...

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..pay me the respect due

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and not simply ask me about those things.

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But in 1967, Sidney chose a part

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with civil rights clearly in mind -

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Guess Who's Coming To Dinner - which dealt with the issue of

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interracial marriage and co-starred Hollywood royalty

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Katherine Hepburn and Spencer Tracy.

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KNOCKING

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I'm not intruding?

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Of course not, John - please, come in.

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'It was one of the most emotional scenes in the movie,

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'when I addressed them to talk to them as their future son-in-law.

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'And I stood before these two people and I looked them in the eye

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'and I couldn't remember a word!

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'It went on for hours.

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'Ultimately, I had to ask Mr Kramer to do me a favour.

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'I decided that I cannot look into the eyes of these people,

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'because, to me, all I could see,

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'instead of seeing the father and the mother of the girl,

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'I am seeing the legends

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'of the American film industry in front of me.

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'So I said, "Would you please do me a favour? Send them home."

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'And he did! He packed them off and they went home,

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'he gave them the afternoon off.

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'And I then was able to play the scene to two empty chairs.'

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On paper, Guess Who's Coming To Dinner should have cemented

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Poitier's position as a leading challenger of the status quo.

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If anything, the fact it was banned in America's South

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was a testament to its significance.

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But for some audiences,

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it had the opposite effect.

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One New York Times writer claimed Poitier's character slipped

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so far into tokenistic caricature that it was impossible

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to identify with and gave the impression

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that only a black man who was so perfectly refined

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and impossibly high-achieving could be embraced by a white family.

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It was a tough article for me,

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because it came at a very...

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..delicate time in my life and my career.

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Er...

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I had had tough articles before,

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but the extent to which this was, to my mind, totally...

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er, untrue...

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..bothered me.

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It was a couple of months before I was OK with what he had written.

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And, er, I went on with my life.

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I never forgot it.

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The controversy eventually faded.

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Poitier's significance never will,

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with many black stars citing him

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as the first and most important

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aspirational figure they've encountered

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and also, of course, he was just a very, very fine actor.

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The 1970s saw an explosion in black cinema

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and the rise of Blaxploitation films like Shaft,

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made specifically for a young, urban, black audience.

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But the struggle for roles and recognition continued with

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only five black actors nominated for Oscars over the entire decade.

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In 1982, Louis Gossett Jr won the Best Supporting Actor prize

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for An Officer And A Gentleman, and then,

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in 1985, came a film that looked like a guaranteed awards magnet -

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The Color Purple -

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based on the Pulitzer prize-winning novel by Alice Walker

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and directed by Stephen Spielberg,

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who took a specific approach when it came to casting.

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I didn't want to cast traditional black movie stars,

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which I felt would create their own stereotype.

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I won't mention any names, because it wouldn't be kind,

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but there were people who wanted to be...

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To play these parts very much, but if they had played those parts,

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it would represent a kind of...

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"OK, these black people are the only black people accepted

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"in the kind of white world's mainstream".

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And I didn't want to do that,

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that's why I chose so many unknowns who had not been seen before,

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like Whoopi Goldberg and Oprah and Margaret Avery

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and wonderful talents like that.

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I wanted to really avoid that.

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I sort of missed black repertory in America,

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there just hasn't been a lot of it.

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There hasn't been enough of it and when I saw the wealth of

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talent out there when I began casting this film with

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Reuben Cannon, I couldn't believe it.

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It shocked me to see so many...

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I mean, one good black actor,

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male, female, old, young,

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one after the other, coming in to read for me,

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to do videotape performances and being tested.

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One after the other, hard to make up your mind, they're all so great.

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I kept thinking, "Where have they been?"

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"And where's the outlet, where's room to work?"

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If you don't have the subject matter,

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there's no work for these talented people.

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The most significant piece of casting was Whoopi Goldberg,

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a relative unknown, who took the lead role of Celie.

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I'm a very good actor, I'm very good at what I do.

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I believe in myself, you see

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and I couldn't get it through people's heads

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when I would go to audition for something that they should

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hire me because of course they would look and say, "Well, you're not..."

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And I'd go, "What?" And they'd go, "Well, you're very good!"

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And I'd go... "And?"

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And they'd go, "But you're..."

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And I'd say... ("Black?")

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And they'd go, "Well, yeah, essentially, yes.

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"We have a white lead here," and... You know.

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But the most amazing thing about this film

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is it's truly not a black film.

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Here, they always talk about "the black experience", you know,

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when this is more like the HUMAN experience,

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of someone trying to understand that there's another way.

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JAZZ PLAYS

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The film was eventually nominated for 11 Oscars with Whoopi Goldberg,

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Margaret Avery and Oprah Winfrey all competing

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in the acting categories.

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It didn't win a single award,

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but Whoopi was to get another shot five years later,

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with the much-loved fantasy romance Ghost,

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in which she played fake clairvoyant Oda Mae Brown.

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There's a lot of comedy, but it's also...

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I sat and wept watching that.

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Well, yeah, it is a weepy movie,

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it's kind of mushy,

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in these days of, you know,

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Total Recall and Recall It Again and Lethal Weapon Seven

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and, you know... Die Hard

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and then Harder and then Harder Again!

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You know, this is a strange little film,

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because it allows the audience

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to have old-fashioned...tastes.

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But in a sense, you're the heroine, aren't you?

0:19:090:19:12

I mean, Demi Moore, she's very beautiful and all the rest of it -

0:19:120:19:15

she has to cry a lot in this film.

0:19:150:19:16

I punched her, that's why she cried so much.

0:19:160:19:18

-But you're the heroine, aren't you?...

-Um...

0:19:180:19:21

Probably. Probably.

0:19:210:19:24

I'm very sort of leery of words like that, because they sort of

0:19:240:19:29

set you up to be something that might not be everybody's idea,

0:19:290:19:33

but she does take a stance

0:19:330:19:36

and goes for it.

0:19:360:19:38

What do you think the chances

0:19:380:19:40

of getting another Oscar nomination are?

0:19:400:19:42

I don't even think about that stuff. You know, they can make you crazy -

0:19:420:19:45

"Am I going to get it? Am I not? Am I going to get it? Am I not?"

0:19:450:19:48

If I get it, I'll be very pleased, if I don't, you can...

0:19:480:19:51

..believe that I will be back, trying to get another one.

0:19:530:19:56

But is it important... It's important to you?

0:19:560:19:58

Oh, absolutely, I want one.

0:19:580:20:00

There has not been, and I rarely refer to myself as black,

0:20:000:20:04

because it's not something that just happened overnight,

0:20:040:20:06

I've always been this way.

0:20:060:20:07

-LAUGHTER

-So...

0:20:070:20:10

You know, so it's not like something that's foremost in my mind,

0:20:100:20:13

but strangely enough, there hasn't been a black woman since 1939

0:20:130:20:19

to get an Oscar and I would like to be the first since '39 to get it.

0:20:190:20:24

You don't see your colour as any kind of barrier, do you,

0:20:240:20:27

in your profession?

0:20:270:20:29

-Well, no... I mean, do you?

-No, I don't.

0:20:290:20:32

-APPLAUSE

-There you are.

0:20:320:20:34

CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

0:20:340:20:36

So what you have to do is go to a film producer and point out

0:20:380:20:41

to him that you could play a role that he's automatically

0:20:410:20:44

thinking of for Meryl Streep or Glenn Close or...

0:20:440:20:46

Well, yeah. I mean, pretty much in the dark, you can't tell.

0:20:460:20:50

You know?

0:20:500:20:51

Yeah, but when they're filming you, they put lights on you!

0:20:510:20:54

Yes, but there's no experience

0:20:540:20:55

that you could have had that I could not have.

0:20:550:20:58

There is no experience that I have had that you have not.

0:20:580:21:01

But how do you get that message across to a film producer?

0:21:010:21:04

-You say it very succinctly.

-And you've said it?

-I say it.

0:21:040:21:08

-What do they say when you say it?

-Sometimes they said, "OK."

0:21:080:21:10

I mean, the only two films that were written for me

0:21:100:21:14

with me in mind were Color Purple and Clara's Heart.

0:21:140:21:18

All the rest were for men and other women.

0:21:180:21:20

But did you have to go knocking and say, "Excuse me, listen,

0:21:200:21:22

"look at me - I know I'm black, I can play that role?

0:21:220:21:25

Well, actually, I go knocking,

0:21:250:21:27

I say, "I hear you have this movie and I'm interested in it,"

0:21:270:21:30

and they generally will say, "Really?

0:21:300:21:32

"But you're..." And I say, "Fat?"

0:21:320:21:35

And they say, "No, you're..."

0:21:350:21:37

And I say, "Got braided hair?"

0:21:370:21:39

They say, "No, you're black." I go, "Oh! No!

0:21:390:21:41

"My God, when did it happen?! Who knew?"

0:21:430:21:46

And then pretty much, they relax and start talking to me as an actor,

0:21:460:21:49

because if you remember,

0:21:490:21:51

all of Shakespeare's actors were men playing women's roles. You know?

0:21:510:21:56

So the idea of the art of acting

0:21:560:21:58

is that we are supposed to be able to play everything

0:21:580:22:01

and very few people write for white or black

0:22:010:22:05

or Asian or Puerto Rican.

0:22:050:22:07

And what do you want to play now?

0:22:070:22:09

You've played a man, you've played any kind of age,

0:22:090:22:12

you've played white, black - the colour doesn't matter.

0:22:120:22:15

What do you really... Who do you admire?

0:22:150:22:17

Who would you really like to be in the cinema?

0:22:170:22:19

God.

0:22:190:22:21

LAUGHTER

0:22:210:22:23

I just want to see what'll happen, you know, if I played God.

0:22:230:22:26

Whether the Vatican would crumble or something.

0:22:260:22:28

Ghost did of course earn Whoopi Goldberg a Best Supporting Actress

0:22:320:22:36

Oscar and made her for a while the highest-paid woman in Hollywood.

0:22:360:22:40

This period also saw the release of the epic drama Glory, which

0:22:400:22:45

told the story of a black regiment fighting in the American Civil War.

0:22:450:22:50

The film brought together Morgan Freeman and Denzel Washington,

0:22:500:22:53

who would both go on to become influential Hollywood figures,

0:22:530:22:57

much-loved and highly successful.

0:22:570:22:59

And Glory wasn't Morgan's only hit that year.

0:22:590:23:02

His real breakthrough came with his performance in Driving Miss Daisy.

0:23:020:23:06

You did a lot of theatre work.

0:23:070:23:09

You were in the theatre in a part which, in a movie, was your biggest,

0:23:090:23:14

first biggest hit over here, which was Driving Miss Daisy.

0:23:140:23:17

Now, that must have been particularly sweet, to create the

0:23:170:23:20

role on stage and then to transfer to the screen, which is quite rare.

0:23:200:23:23

It is quite rare, but that wasn't what was particularly sweet to me.

0:23:230:23:27

What was particularly sweet was before Driving Miss Daisy,

0:23:270:23:30

I did this movie called Street Smart,

0:23:300:23:31

which I don't think got here, but I played

0:23:310:23:34

a really dastardly character, a pimp,

0:23:340:23:38

and that was the film and I was doing the play Driving Miss Daisy

0:23:380:23:42

and the play opened when the film opened.

0:23:420:23:45

So I had these two characters being reviewed by the press at the

0:23:450:23:50

same time and both getting these incredible responses from the press.

0:23:500:23:56

That was... That was...

0:23:560:23:57

I started telling everybody around me,

0:23:590:24:01

"Look out, look out! I'm on my way!"

0:24:010:24:04

-Tell me about working with Jessica Tandy.

-Jessica, she's been acting...

0:24:040:24:09

I mean, at that time, she'd been acting for 65 years.

0:24:090:24:13

65 years. She was a consummate professional.

0:24:140:24:17

On time, on-the-job,

0:24:180:24:21

lines down, ready to go.

0:24:210:24:25

No BS.

0:24:250:24:26

You know? It's never, "Miss Tandy's in her trailer.

0:24:280:24:31

"Miss Tandy's not ready." Miss Tandy is on the set, Miss Tandy's ready.

0:24:310:24:35

Because her health was not all that she wanted it to be,

0:24:350:24:42

they would only let her work six hours a day,

0:24:420:24:45

but she'd put in the full six, the full six, every day.

0:24:450:24:49

Oh, I just love the smell of a new car! Don't you, Miss Daisy?

0:24:500:24:55

-I'm nobody's fool, Hoke.

-Why, no!

0:24:580:25:02

-My husband taught me to run a car.

-Yes.

0:25:020:25:05

I remember everything he said,

0:25:050:25:08

so don't you think even for a second that you...

0:25:080:25:10

Now, wait - you're speeding, I can see it.

0:25:100:25:13

No, Miss Daisy, we only doing about 19mph.

0:25:130:25:16

When you're looking at a film, I reckon you can often tell

0:25:160:25:20

when the people making it had a really good time, and looking at

0:25:200:25:24

that, I just got the impression that you really enjoyed making that film.

0:25:240:25:27

I did, I loved that character.

0:25:280:25:31

I LOVED the whole thing, I loved that piece, that play.

0:25:310:25:34

I thought that it was one of the few times ever that someone went

0:25:350:25:41

to a Southern situation and told a different story.

0:25:410:25:45

You know? Because that was real.

0:25:450:25:48

-Do you enjoy watching yourself on film?

-No, not particularly.

0:25:480:25:52

I like watching a good film and if I happen to be in it, fine,

0:25:520:25:56

but for the most part, no, I don't,

0:25:560:25:59

because when you're on stage and you don't get to see yourself,

0:25:590:26:04

except as you're mirrored through the eyes and responses of the

0:26:040:26:07

audience, you look a lot better.

0:26:070:26:10

You know?

0:26:100:26:12

You don't see your...

0:26:120:26:14

perceived mistakes

0:26:140:26:16

or things that you always think of as shortcomings in yourself,

0:26:160:26:21

which we all have, you know? You're perfect.

0:26:210:26:25

You're as perfect as your audience says you are.

0:26:250:26:28

When you actually see yourself,

0:26:280:26:31

then the audience becomes less believable.

0:26:310:26:35

You seem to be a man who likes to keep his feet very much on

0:26:350:26:38

the ground. You sail a lot, you get off in your boat.

0:26:380:26:41

Is that important to you,

0:26:410:26:43

that Chicago upbringing as a kid kind of keeps your feet on the

0:26:430:26:46

ground, stops you getting a bit head in the clouds?

0:26:460:26:48

You've got to keep contact with reality,

0:26:480:26:51

because if you lose contact, and it slaps you, then it's going to hurt.

0:26:510:26:55

Morgan Freeman got a Best Actor Oscar nomination

0:26:550:26:59

for Driving Miss Daisy.

0:26:590:27:00

Denzel Washington won Best Supporting Actor

0:27:000:27:04

for his role in Glory.

0:27:040:27:06

He'd already earned widespread acclaim playing Steve Biko in

0:27:060:27:09

Richard Attenborough's 1987 drama, Cry Freedom.

0:27:090:27:13

He would also tackle Shakespeare

0:27:130:27:15

in Kenneth Branagh's Much Ado About Nothing and star alongside

0:27:150:27:19

Tom Hanks in the Aids drama Philadelphia.

0:27:190:27:22

This appearance comes from those early days -

0:27:220:27:25

a visit to the Wogan studio in 1992 in which Whoopi Goldberg's

0:27:250:27:30

previous appearance on the show came up for discussion.

0:27:300:27:33

Now, I saw Whoopi Goldberg being interviewed,

0:27:330:27:35

I think it was actually when Miss Sue Lawley was doing this show

0:27:350:27:38

while I was away on holiday and doing it dammed well...

0:27:380:27:41

She spoke of a lack of good leading roles for African-American actors

0:27:420:27:46

or for black actors generally.

0:27:460:27:48

Has that been your experience?

0:27:480:27:50

It hasn't been so much my experience,

0:27:500:27:52

I've been very fortunate.

0:27:520:27:55

I know a lot of American actors,

0:27:550:27:57

white actors,

0:27:570:27:58

who aren't able to get good parts - who do they blame?

0:27:580:28:02

-Yes, you think it's an easy excuse.

-Yeah, it can be used that way.

0:28:020:28:06

But black actors tend to...

0:28:060:28:08

I mean you've got a Supporting Oscar, Whoopi's got

0:28:080:28:11

a Supporting Oscar. It tends to be support roles, doesn't it?

0:28:110:28:14

Well, you know...

0:28:140:28:16

I got a big house in California,

0:28:160:28:18

I'm a fairly wealthy man,

0:28:180:28:20

I can't complain.

0:28:200:28:21

It would be easy to sit here and say, "Oh, yeah,

0:28:210:28:24

"there's a lot of prejudices, a lot of racism." Well, that's a given.

0:28:240:28:30

I try to be a positive person and figure out

0:28:300:28:32

a way I can do better, not give into those problems.

0:28:320:28:35

It's just that some of the interviews I've read

0:28:350:28:37

that you've given, they are casting you in some ways as

0:28:370:28:40

-a role model for other African-Americans...

-Mm-hm.

0:28:400:28:43

..for saying that you do take a strong line,

0:28:430:28:45

but obviously...you're relatively happy with your lot.

0:28:450:28:49

As I said, I'm a positive person.

0:28:490:28:51

I think you have to take what you're given and do something with it,

0:28:510:28:55

you know, the easiest thing to do is complain about it and give in

0:28:550:28:59

to that, but I try to turn that into something positive and

0:28:590:29:01

-so far, it's worked for me.

-Good for you. You won the Oscar of course...

0:29:010:29:05

-Yeah.

-Did you find more people wanted to know you?

-Well, um...

0:29:050:29:10

I'd like to think that things are pretty much the same, you know.

0:29:100:29:14

I guess it's been a little better for me in terms of opportunities,

0:29:140:29:17

but I've still got to put out the garbage when I get home...

0:29:170:29:20

For goodness' sake.

0:29:200:29:22

-Do you do the washing up? All that stuff?

-Yeah.

0:29:220:29:25

I find myself standing at the sink, saying,

0:29:250:29:27

"I bet Frank Sinatra is not doing this in Palm Beach.

0:29:270:29:30

-"He's not doing that."

-He's not!

0:29:300:29:32

-Just you and I!

-He's not cleaning the dog turds off the lawn.

0:29:320:29:34

We're the only ones doing it!

0:29:340:29:36

The people don't understand.

0:29:360:29:39

-When you're a star, you shouldn't be asked to do this.

-No, no.

0:29:390:29:43

-Do you get sent out to the supermarket?

-All the time.

0:29:430:29:46

-And I always bring back the wrong thing!

-Of course!

0:29:460:29:48

Again, a film in which you made a tremendous impact was

0:29:500:29:53

as Steve Biko in Cry Freedom.

0:29:530:29:55

Was that the first time that you'd worked in Africa?

0:29:550:29:58

-Yes, first time in England and in Africa.

-How did that strike you?

0:29:580:30:02

Well, it was like...

0:30:020:30:03

Being an African-American,

0:30:040:30:06

we're one of the few groups of people on this earth that

0:30:060:30:10

don't know where we're from, specifically, you know,

0:30:100:30:13

because our history was taken from us during slavery.

0:30:130:30:17

We know we're from the continent of Africa,

0:30:170:30:19

but not specifically where, so when I went to Zimbabwe where we filmed,

0:30:190:30:23

it was sort of a homecoming, like, "Yeah, this makes sense now.

0:30:230:30:28

"I'm back home," even though it wasn't necessarily my block!

0:30:280:30:31

-But I still felt good about it.

-You just made a film with Spike Lee...

0:30:310:30:35

-Yes.

-On the very controversial black American leader...

-Malcolm X.

0:30:350:30:39

That's going to make a few waves...

0:30:390:30:42

-Yes, that'll stir the pot!

-Really?

0:30:420:30:45

Yes, we just got off the plane from Cairo yesterday afternoon

0:30:450:30:49

and finished up shooting down there.

0:30:490:30:52

Once again you've been cast as a kind of...

0:30:520:30:54

Well, if not a Malcolm X, sort of leader, somebody to look up to.

0:30:540:30:59

Yes, and I don't mind that.

0:30:590:31:01

You know, I've done different types of roles.

0:31:010:31:03

I also did a film that's opening here in April called Ricochet,

0:31:030:31:08

which is just sort of an action-adventure,

0:31:080:31:11

hanging off of tall buildings, hero-type stuff,

0:31:110:31:14

so variety is the spice of life.

0:31:140:31:16

Does Bruce Willis know that you're stealing his thunder?

0:31:160:31:18

I'm right on his heels, he'd better watch out!

0:31:180:31:20

Denzel did indeed have all of Hollywood watching out.

0:31:230:31:26

His popularity is huge and his critical achievements

0:31:260:31:30

have seen him compared to Sidney Poitier many times,

0:31:300:31:32

which is something that he has mixed feelings about.

0:31:320:31:36

I heard it many times in my career,

0:31:370:31:39

"Oh, you're the next Sidney Poitier," and I said, you know,

0:31:390:31:42

"That's the most racist thing I've ever heard in my life."

0:31:420:31:45

Because you're saying it can only be one person at a time -

0:31:450:31:48

there was one 40 years ago and now there's one now?

0:31:480:31:51

You know, and you can only be compared to one other person

0:31:510:31:54

and that person has to be black? That's who you are?

0:31:540:31:57

We've decided who, what you are what category and see you later,

0:31:570:32:01

that's who you are.

0:32:010:32:03

I always resented that. Excuse me.

0:32:030:32:06

At the same time, I was like,

0:32:060:32:08

"OK!

0:32:080:32:10

"I'll take it!" You know? Great actor.

0:32:100:32:13

Wonderful human being.

0:32:130:32:15

In 2002, Denzel Washington won his second Oscar,

0:32:180:32:23

this time for Leading Actor for the film Training Day.

0:32:230:32:27

That same night, Halle Berry made history -

0:32:270:32:29

her role in Monster's Ball

0:32:290:32:32

making her the first black female to win the Best Actress award.

0:32:320:32:36

Here, we join her talking about her experiences

0:32:360:32:39

and that important Oscar win.

0:32:390:32:41

You know, for the first time in my career, I've had like, three or

0:32:420:32:45

four projects in development - I've never had that happen in my career.

0:32:450:32:49

But I think when anybody wins an Academy Award,

0:32:490:32:52

you get a bit more respect from your peers and from the industry,

0:32:520:32:55

but it's such a competitive industry,

0:32:550:32:59

you still have to be very aggressive and have your eye on the ball

0:32:590:33:05

and be very sort of, um, relentless in your approach.

0:33:050:33:09

I think the big myth is that you win an Academy Award and then the

0:33:090:33:13

script bus comes by your house and drops off all these great scripts.

0:33:130:33:17

Many times, more times than I care to tell you,

0:33:170:33:19

I have been told, "I don't want to see Halle Berry for this role,

0:33:190:33:22

"because we don't want to go black."

0:33:220:33:24

Now, what does that mean, "We don't want to go black"?

0:33:240:33:27

But I'd hear that over and over and over,

0:33:270:33:30

or, "If we cast a black woman in that role,

0:33:300:33:32

"it will change the whole dynamic and the meaning of the movie."

0:33:320:33:35

And those are hard pills to swallow

0:33:350:33:37

when you've been chugging along,

0:33:370:33:39

working at your craft and feeling like,

0:33:390:33:41

"if I only had the opportunity, I bet I could do a good job at that,"

0:33:410:33:44

but being denied.

0:33:440:33:46

Not even a chance to audition, not even a chance to be seen,

0:33:460:33:49

just because the colour of your skin and that still exists today.

0:33:490:33:54

I really wish that people would start to see people of colour

0:33:540:33:58

as people and not let our colour precede us - sure, notice it, sure -

0:33:580:34:02

but I hope the day comes when it doesn't always precede me.

0:34:020:34:05

But what it did do was it inspired people,

0:34:050:34:07

it inspired their hearts and minds and those inspired people

0:34:070:34:11

who maybe thought about giving up,

0:34:110:34:12

thought it was a dream or goal that was insurmountable, now have hope

0:34:120:34:16

and faith and they're fighting harder because it's happened.

0:34:160:34:19

So it's almost tangible for them now.

0:34:190:34:21

That WILL transform into a change down the road, it will take a couple

0:34:210:34:27

of years I think to really start to see the effects of that night.

0:34:270:34:31

Hollywood loves a happy ending, of course,

0:34:310:34:34

and what could be more perfect than Sidney Poitier being honoured

0:34:340:34:38

with a lifetime achievement award on the same night that Denzel

0:34:380:34:42

and Halle won their Oscars?

0:34:420:34:44

The message was clearly that after years of black talent

0:34:440:34:48

being overlooked, a change had come.

0:34:480:34:50

Oscar winners over the next few years included Forrest Whittaker,

0:34:520:34:57

Jamie Foxx, Morgan Freeman,

0:34:570:34:59

Jennifer Hudson and Octavia Spencer.

0:34:590:35:02

And then, in 2013,

0:35:030:35:05

more than 70 years after Gone With The Wind,

0:35:050:35:09

came a Hollywood film that explored

0:35:090:35:11

the slaves' experience of the American South, 12 Years A Slave.

0:35:110:35:16

Here we join its British director, Steve McQueen, and his cast

0:35:160:35:20

talking to the film critic Mark Kermode.

0:35:200:35:22

I'm from the West Indies,

0:35:240:35:26

my parents were from the West Indies and of course some of my

0:35:260:35:28

ancestors were slaves, so for me, not to have that history

0:35:280:35:32

visualised on film, on celluloid, was very strange.

0:35:320:35:36

It is a huge part of not just America's history,

0:35:360:35:41

but world history. European history.

0:35:410:35:44

So therefore, I needed it to be on film and to see...

0:35:440:35:48

Investigate myself through the camera what occurred, as such.

0:35:480:35:52

Solomon's story begins in 1841.

0:35:550:35:58

His world implodes when his comfortable family life

0:35:580:36:01

in New York state is taken away from him

0:36:010:36:04

and he's sold to work in the plantations of the deep South.

0:36:040:36:07

Powerless to protest,

0:36:100:36:11

he's unable to get word to his family that he has been kidnapped.

0:36:110:36:15

Solomon is somebody who starts off in the story believing that

0:36:160:36:19

he's in a battle for his freedom, but discovers through the story

0:36:190:36:22

that, actually, he's in a battle for his mind.

0:36:220:36:25

It's an amazing first person account from

0:36:250:36:27

so deep inside this experience that really speaks to...

0:36:270:36:31

I mean, so much of the way the world worked then,

0:36:320:36:35

the way it works now, his way of being able to relate,

0:36:350:36:39

and poetically relate the story of what happened to him

0:36:390:36:42

so powerfully I think was so extraordinary.

0:36:420:36:46

And that servant...

0:36:460:36:48

that don't obey his Lord...

0:36:480:36:50

shall be beaten with many stripes.

0:36:500:36:54

That's scripture.

0:36:540:36:55

Tell me how you approached the physicality of the subject of

0:36:550:37:00

slavery, because it's very difficult to know exactly what you can show,

0:37:000:37:04

what you can't show, how you can put the audience in those positions.

0:37:040:37:07

Well, I didn't want to censor myself on anything, so I decided,

0:37:070:37:10

I'm going to show everything.

0:37:100:37:11

Do you have a completely non-censorious

0:37:110:37:14

approach to your vision?

0:37:140:37:15

I'm a bit weird like that, I suppose. Um...

0:37:150:37:18

No. In this case, it was about the truth.

0:37:200:37:23

How can I make a movie about slavery and not show certain aspects of it?

0:37:230:37:28

-Yeah.

-I cannot. It would be,

0:37:280:37:31

I mean, sort of... For my ancestors,

0:37:310:37:33

and for other people's, it would be sort of...

0:37:330:37:38

You know, it would be a travesty. You can't do that.

0:37:400:37:42

It's like, you cannot do that. What is slavery?

0:37:420:37:45

Slavery is sort of, you know,

0:37:450:37:47

making people work in servitude,

0:37:470:37:51

and how do you get them to do that?

0:37:510:37:53

Well, you punish them,

0:37:530:37:55

you scare the hell out of them and how do you do that?

0:37:550:37:58

By making examples of people. How do you do that?

0:37:580:38:00

By the most horrible acts of sort of brutality one can think of.

0:38:000:38:04

And how am I sitting here? Because certain people survived that.

0:38:040:38:09

Um... So, you know, there was not a choice, it was not a question.

0:38:090:38:14

We shot scenes by actual lynching trees and it's impossible not

0:38:190:38:23

to feel that, to know that you're really dancing with spirits.

0:38:230:38:26

I mean, you feel that you're connected to something and

0:38:280:38:30

you're connected to one of the most extraordinary experiences

0:38:300:38:35

that a collective of people have ever gone through.

0:38:350:38:38

That was really powerful, to be on a set where everything

0:38:380:38:42

just took you back to a totally different time.

0:38:420:38:46

I never thought that I would be picking cotton in my life,

0:38:460:38:49

and to be doing that at the height of summer,

0:38:490:38:52

at the height of noon, I just...

0:38:520:38:55

..was faced with how strong

0:38:560:39:00

these people were that lived through these days.

0:39:000:39:03

These people did it for 16, 18, sometimes 20 hours a day.

0:39:040:39:09

I mean, that is something to reckon with.

0:39:090:39:12

Tell me about working with Chiwetel.

0:39:120:39:14

-I mean, it's an extraordinary performance from him.

-Yes.

0:39:140:39:17

He's done great work before, I think, anyway,

0:39:170:39:20

but tell me about him,

0:39:200:39:21

how you cast him and how you discussed the role with him.

0:39:210:39:24

Well, I asked him, I rang him on the phone, he said...

0:39:240:39:28

I said, "Have you read the script?" He said no.

0:39:280:39:31

He said no. I said, "What?

0:39:310:39:32

-"I just offered you this..." He said no.

-Because?

0:39:320:39:35

I think, you know, as he has said before,

0:39:350:39:38

it was like having the role that you've been waiting for all

0:39:380:39:41

your life and this thing landing on your lap and him being paralysed

0:39:410:39:46

and him saying to himself, "I can't do this."

0:39:460:39:49

I'm not filming that.

0:39:490:39:50

'I was just very aware, first of all, the responsibility of it,'

0:39:500:39:54

the responsibility of telling Solomon Northup's story...

0:39:540:39:58

Because it's a real story and an important story?

0:39:580:40:00

Yes, it's this man's life and his experience,

0:40:000:40:03

there's the responsibility to him, his descendants, you know...

0:40:030:40:06

There was a responsibility to the overall idea.

0:40:060:40:08

I'd never seen a story like this before,

0:40:080:40:10

I'd never read a story that was so deep inside this experience

0:40:100:40:14

and I was shocked by that, compelled by that, obviously,

0:40:140:40:19

but I was also...

0:40:190:40:20

It took me a moment, it took me some pause.

0:40:200:40:23

And what about Patsy?

0:40:230:40:25

Well, Patsy...

0:40:260:40:27

That was Lupita Nyong'o.

0:40:270:40:29

It was like searching for Scarlett O'Hara, it really was.

0:40:290:40:32

It was over 1,000 girls we auditioned for that part.

0:40:320:40:35

It had to be someone who was new.

0:40:350:40:37

It had to be someone that we had to find,

0:40:370:40:39

because there was no-one like that, so it was a long and hard hunt.

0:40:390:40:43

We found this girl who had not just graduated from Yale yet

0:40:430:40:47

and she was just amazing.

0:40:470:40:50

And that was it, a star is born.

0:40:500:40:53

12 Years A Slave won that year's Best Picture Oscar,

0:40:560:41:00

saw Lupita Nyong'o win Best Supporting Actress

0:41:000:41:03

and, alongside the Martin Luther King drama Selma,

0:41:030:41:07

was held up as proof that Hollywood had made real progress on race.

0:41:070:41:11

We must march, we must stand up.

0:41:130:41:16

You march those people into rural Alabama,

0:41:160:41:18

it's going to be open season.

0:41:180:41:20

The reason why this film wasn't made earlier

0:41:200:41:24

is because Hollywood

0:41:240:41:26

had a tendency of wanting to tell this kind of story

0:41:260:41:29

through white eyes, because there was this notion that

0:41:290:41:32

A) you need a movie star,

0:41:320:41:34

so there are very few to none black movie stars in their 30s,

0:41:340:41:37

because they have less opportunities

0:41:370:41:40

to become movie stars...

0:41:400:41:41

GUNSHOT

0:41:410:41:42

And also, there is a notion about white guilt

0:41:420:41:45

in relation to slavery and the civil rights movement, so you have

0:41:450:41:49

a white character who's nice to black people who ends up effectively

0:41:490:41:52

saving them, so it's always been through this prism that these films

0:41:520:41:56

have been made until 12 Years A Slave came along

0:41:560:42:00

and did critically well, and well at the box office,

0:42:000:42:02

proving that people are ready to see these kind of films.

0:42:020:42:06

I've seen the glory! Glory!

0:42:060:42:09

Glory! Hallelujah!

0:42:090:42:11

But it took just 12 months for the 12 Years factor to disappear.

0:42:130:42:18

David Oyelowo's much-praised portrayal

0:42:180:42:20

of Martin Luther King in Selma was overlooked in 2015,

0:42:200:42:25

and no other black actor received Oscar nominations that year, either.

0:42:250:42:29

When the situation was repeated in 2016,

0:42:290:42:31

there was an explosion of controversy.

0:42:310:42:34

Now, the absence of black actors among the nominees for the Oscars

0:42:360:42:40

for the second year running is unforgivable,

0:42:400:42:42

according to the British actor David Oyelowo.

0:42:420:42:45

The race row over this year's ceremony

0:42:450:42:47

shows no signs of going away.

0:42:470:42:49

I think it's wrong. Not even nominated. We're not...

0:42:500:42:53

We're just saying being nominated. I just think it's wrong.

0:42:530:42:56

Like last year,

0:42:560:42:58

all 20 acting nominees for the 2016 Oscars are white.

0:42:580:43:01

I'm Chris Rock and I'm hosting the Oscars.

0:43:010:43:04

He may be the host,

0:43:040:43:05

but the Hollywood elite does not look like him.

0:43:050:43:08

The director Spike Lee says he won't be attending.

0:43:080:43:10

He's boycotting the ceremony, calling the Oscars "lily-white".

0:43:100:43:15

The body which decides who gets an Oscar said it's reviewing

0:43:150:43:18

its membership because of the anger at the lack of racial diversity

0:43:180:43:21

among this year's nominees.

0:43:210:43:23

Too late for this year's Oscars,

0:43:230:43:25

already drowned out by the question, "Is Hollywood racist?"

0:43:250:43:29

Hollywood is still struggling to properly reflect its cinemagoers

0:43:310:43:35

on-screen, but as we've seen, it's not through a lack of talent.

0:43:350:43:40

The trailblazing black actors we've been celebrating here

0:43:400:43:43

have proven that the business that is show could be bolder

0:43:430:43:48

and look beyond race for its stars of the future.

0:43:480:43:51

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